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HoI3 thread.
How is your campaign going anons?
I'm in a brutal slugfest with the Germans, trying to linkup with the Italians in Bavaria and wipe out the southern German army.
>>
>>409065
Toujours L'attaque.

What a coincidence. I was thinking about playing a game as France. But the idea of having the British as allies put me off.

So instead I tried Russia with the Barbarossa start date. On very hard difficulty. Quite honestly I wasn't expecting it be such a desperate struggle to survive. Even though I extracted the bulk of the western front without serious losses I found myself just getting hammered along the the L-M-R line. The problem isn't manpower of course, its organization. I keep shuttling units in and out of the meat grinder as best as I can but I am gradually losing vital ground as the fighting capacity of the Red army continues to drain away. And this is mid September. Winter is still a way off.
>>
>>409065
Why is Poland still in existence? Did you declare on Germany before September 39?
>>
>>409088
If you pay attention to the map, you will notice Anschluss didn't happen and Fall Grun was put in action, too
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>>409065
>I'm in a brutal slugfest with the Germans
That's putting it lightly. Any invasion of Germany usually entails having to beat their armies three times. First their front line army near the border. Then the reserves ( mostly Garrison ) within the country. Then finally the forces they pull in from their other fronts.
>>
>>409065
Have the Brits tried their usual landing at Wihelmshaven yet?
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>>409129
This type of shit must be hard coded into the game.
>>Land. Get wiped out. Repeat.
Although I must admit that one time as France, I declared on the low countries, focused offensive action north and linked up with the Brits around Wihelmshaven. That managed to keep them alive at least, tying down some German forces.
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>>409129
No the British AI is retarded and could easily invade from the north and end the war. I'm guessing the German reserves are scaring them off. The brits are at least Tac Bombing
>>409088
Like >>409095 said, Germany tried to annex Austria but they Austria wasn't having it since Italy didn't join the Rome Berlin Pact.
The German AI is pretty strong, unhistorically so, but I guess it has to be that way so it plays out.
It's even more fucked up in China, Japan took over China in one year in 1939. I guaranteed Guangxi and Yunan because I don't want them invading Indochina via land.
>>
>>409143
>Germany tried to annex Austria but they Austria wasn't having it since Italy didn't join the Rome Berlin Pact
Wait, what? What version are you playing? I dont recall Italy having anything to do with Anschluss, which iirc in FTM is automatic by mid 38 unless Austria is already at war.
>>
>>409151
Its TFH with HPP. I wouldn't even play this game without HPP anymore.
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>>409142
It basically is hardcoded, the British AI is told to naval invade and the only valid naval invasion target it has is north Germany. Then it opens a new theatre for the beachhead and doesn't assign troops to it because at that moment defending enemy forces are weak.
>>
How do I get good at this game or DH? I always seem to run up against a wall in any campaign I play where I feel like I don't have enough produced or as if I can't really time my unit production right. What's the general sort of thing to look after? What are the units/stats I should pay attention to? There seems to be a lot of noise going on.
>>
>>409065
>Playing HoI3 over HoI4.
Are you too poor to buy HoI4 or is it nostalgia or bitterness?

HoI4 is better than HoI3 in literally every way. Technology is more engaging, and forces you to make choices instead of researching everything, diplomacy actually works, and you are not limited to 3 factions, politics works and it is even possible to not do historical, warfare is more complex with more brigades and modifiers, naval warfare is way better with the ship designer and real fleets, air warfare is more realistic, and important, the focus, and decision systems let you shape your country and role-play.

Literally in every way HoI4 is better.
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>>409426
Nice bait
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>>409556
Just hide bait posts. Not worth the yous or derailing.
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>>409388
Just keep trying it. Germany, Japan and England would be good contenders to learn the game.
I would focus on land combat first, so Germany for that.
If you have any specific examples on what you're confused on in your recent games, that would help.
>>
>>409388
The best way to learn any of these games is to play a mostly historical Germany campaign, imo. Go Poland -> France -> USSR. Don’t bother going for the UK or US on your first playthrough, they are much harder targets and will demoralize you easily. Poland should be a cakewalk even for a newbie. France will be harder, but still manageable if you plan out your encirclements. USSR will be the real test, and if you can beat them, you officially know how to play the game.
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>>409154
What graphics mod are you using? I'm playing HPP right now and it doesn't have colored counters like your OP pic.
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>>409802
The unit counters are from August Storm, the command hierarchy coloring should be in the HPP zip and called 'colored hqs', or something along those lines.
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Any good flavour mods for hoi3?
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>>410017
No all the modders moved to HoI4 because it's simply better and better to mod.
>>
>>409971
Cool, thanks
>>
>>410017
No all the modders stayed on DH because it's simply better and better to mod.
>>
>>410017
WWII Immersion mod
Flavor submods for BlackICE
Dies Irae Vorwärts Panzers!
The Fox and the Lion
>>
>>410062
>>410318
HoI4 is shit while DH is not a HoI game
>>
>>410543
>HoI4 is shit
Care to actually explain that?

HoI4 is easily the pinnacle of HoI and even grand strategy as a whole. Naval warfare is better than ever, land warfare is better than every, you have control over your leaders, and they matter, and are unique, the economy is streamlined, and more engaging, espionage finally matters, and is exciting, every aspect of the game is at its best.
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>>410565
No matter how polished and glittered shit is, it is still a shit
>>
>>410543
Paradox themselves sell DH as "a hearts of iron game"
>>
>>410565
rich people dont sprinkle diamonds on top of a mound of shit and still call it diamonds
>>
>>410636
cheap marketing lie to trick gamers
>>
>>409154
>I wouldn't even play this game without HPP anymore.
Kek this was me when I was playing HOI3. I need to go back to it
>>
>>410565
bait
>>
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>>410565
>HoI4 is easily the pinnacle of HoI and even grand strategy as a whole.
Holy Fuck my sides
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The Brits finally managed a landing, seems they tried a few times, but the Germans had too many reserves. The Germans pulled a lot of troops off the western front to try to push the Brits back in the north, so nows my time to finish an encirclement with the Italians and Austrians.
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>>411382
Punching through with my infantry, keeping my armor and mot. in reserve so that I have no attack delay and can keep up the momentum.
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>>411383
My bombing and attacks are actually getting the German divisions to shatter.
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>>411392
Slowly advancing to the north in the meantime to bog them down.
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>>411397
Encircled the southern army, just need to eliminate the cauldron and cut across to Prague to help the Czechs push out.
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>>411402
The Brits got pushed back, or eliminated. Not sure, wasn't paying attention. Looks like they're trying for Kiel now.
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Converting my ISTs to HArm for more hardness in my HInf divisions.
6 Tac. Bombers in production.
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Any tips for playing as france?
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>>411415
Join commintern for extra lulz
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>>411415
Don't get overconfident, Germany can sweep you if you fuck up. The Maginot is your greatest tool. I like to bleed the Germans dry playing defensively and getting total air superiority.
Your navy can be a good asset to help fight Italy on it's coastlines and get them out of the fight quickly.
Just staying alive is a threat to Germany, and lets the British have less worries. By extension you always keep Indochina in play in the Pacific versus the Japanese.
>>
Hungary game. It was way too easy, played on normal difficulty. According to the wiki hard difficulty has combat efficiency at -20% and very hard at -40% and crazy bonus to IC for the AI. That sounds a bit intimidating, is that even a fair fight at that point?\
>>
>>411442
I didn't want the entire region, thought i was only going to get what I occupied. Is there a way of changeowner in by region instead of province?
>>
>>411445
No. You'll need to write an event for that.
Avoid doing war goal claims that aren't region based. Some events also rely on a specific country owning a province, so adding custom war goals can break shit.
I strongly recommend Historical Plausibility Project, it's effectively vanilla plus.
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>>411481
>No. You'll need to write an event for that.
uh, changeowner it is then or reload an earlier save and claim the Caucuses.
Germany actually declared a limited war, they didn't want my help.
I've played a game or two of HPP and it's really nice, wanted to revisit vanilla just to compare. In HPP, I can't really play minors and get my neutrality low, so vanilla is fun for that.
There are no war goals for the small regions, just the whole blob of mess which I got there unless I'm actually blind.
What I wanted out of the war.
>>
>>411445
Why not keep it all? All you need are a couple of 2xBrigade Cavalry divisions to take care of rebels. You have effectively won at this point, so its just a matter of mopping up if you are planning to map paint.
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>>411535
Because it's not very pleasing to look at. I don't want the entire world, maybe just sit back and help fend off the US and build some nukes if I can.
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>>411576
>Because it's not very pleasing to look at.
Right, of course. Its all.... unsymmetrical ...or something. Now you will excuse me while I exit this thread for good. I have to ummm...I have to feed the cat. Yes. That's it. The cat. It needs feeding.
>>
>>411019
>>410999
>>410679
>>410583
Reminder that HoI3 and DH-tards are judt nostalgiafagd who cannot support their claim that HoI4 is so terrible.
>>
>>412211
hoi3:
>better naval combat
>thoroughly more enjoyable combat
>supply lines (and i mean actual supply lines, not the absolutely retarded shit like hoi4 has where you can ferry supplies to quite a few divisions through awful terrain)
>resistance can make a major difference and doesnt feel like an afterthought (hoi4's was abysmally executed in a dlc with it even in the name)
>significantly more tiles
>air combat makes a difference in individual areas
>paratroopers and transport planes actually matter

hoi4:
>less railroaded because you can actually change the ideology of most countries
>significantly less depth (wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle)
>ai just crumbles the moment you declare war
>air force is simplified down to a bit of shit done across a huge chunk of a front

do you want me to keep going?
>>
>>412219
>better naval combat
So wrong.

>thoroughly more enjoyable combat
If simple and easy makes it "enjoyable".

>supply lines (and i mean actual supply lines, not the absolutely retarded shit like hoi4 has where you can ferry supplies to quite a few divisions through awful terrain)
HoI3 has overcomplicated broken supply in HoI4 you can control it.

>resistance can make a major difference and doesnt feel like an afterthought (hoi4's was abysmally executed in a dlc with it even in the name)
Resistance is way more impactful in HoI4 in HoI3 you just have to defeat some pathetic rebels sometimes. In HoI4 you MUST suppress them.

>significantly more tiles
Factually incorrect HoI4 has more tiles.
>air combat makes a difference in individual areas
Controlling the sky is vital in HoI4 in HoI3 you can completely ignore it. -50% defense is so massive in HoI4 and that is ontop of air support and the damage bombers can do naval bombers are insanely powerful.

>paratroopers and transport planes actually matter
Paratroopers were so strong in HoI4 people banned them and transport planes can offer vital air supply.

Have you even played the game since launch? Have you even played the game at all? Man the Guns made HoI4 have some of the best naval combat ever in any game.
>>
>>412224
i decided to genuinely take you seriously when i read each of your replies to my words until i saw
>Factually incorrect HoI4 has more tiles.
thats all i needed to know that you are baiting for the (you)s that your dopamine addiction craves.
dont expect another reply.
>>
>>412228
its true though hoi4 does have more tiles
its just those tiles are nothing more than tiles whereas in 3 they are full provinces
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>>412219
Different anon, but you forgot
HoI3
>individual provinces matter
>infrastructure is handled on province level (this is good in certain situations)
>political system matters and can butt-fuck you if you aren't careful
>leadership, while flawed in vanilla, is the best way of handling research, intelligence and officers since original HoI1
>has officers as a thing
>has BICE mod

HoI4
>infrastructure is handled on regional level (this is good in certain situations)
>individual production of gear is absolutely great concept, even with flawed execution
>conceptually, better handled naval units design (DLC-only)
>slightly more interesting division design tool
>>
>>412309
>>slightly more interesting division design tool
i hate the division designer of goi$ so much
its one of the worst parts of the game in my opinion and pretends to give you much more choice than you really have - you have to play by the combat width so making anything that doesnt nicely factor into it is just a mistake
what is telling is that, just like hoi3, everyone goes back to the same division designs except, unlike hoi3, there isnt even room for ic rich nations to do more than ic poor nations by switching from 3 width to 2 width with more support brigades
>>
>>409154
So does HPP allow Italy to go down the path of reconciliation with the Allies after Ethiopia and renew its pacts with Austria?
In otl 1934 Italy was this close to DoW Germany over their first attempt at Anschluss after Dollfuss' murder until Germany decided to back down.
Hadn't been for the League's isolating policies against Italy the same would have likely happened in 1936.
It's a little aspect of pre-WWII that I've always found interesting since, despite the huge difference that would have meant for world's history, it's almost never considered nor portrayed in any grand strategy.
>>
>>412359
You can agree to the Washington Naval treaties to try to get into the Allies good grace and rebuke the Germans on the Rome-Berlin Axis. That'll keep your guarantee on Austria, and from there you can build rapport with the Allies by aligning to them and trading for relations.

I will say that there is not a lot of content for going wildly off the rails, and it's something a sub mod would need to address. At the moment the single lead dev is focused on bugfixes, gameplay improvements and incorporation of a map infra/resource overhaul. He's also got little time to spare, so if you're interested you can contribute on the Pdox forums directly.
I'm interested in fleshing the modout more myself, but it's difficult with engine limitations, my limited scope of historical knowledge and free time.
>>
>>412224
>HoI3 has overcomplicated broken supply in HoI4 you can control it.
This is objectively incorrect. You have literally no control over logistics whatsoever in HoI4, you can build region-wide infrastructure and that's about it. HoI3 isn't much better, but at least you can manually control supply convoys and build infrastructure by the province.
>>
>>410062
>No all the modders moved to HoI4 because it's simply better and better to mod.
Lol what do they do besides scripted events? Do you they make any core gameplay changes?
>>
>>412332
By "slightly more" I meant the distinction between front and support brigades. Hence the word "slightly", too. I never said it's a good or better system. I said it has interesting aspect to it.
>>
>>412509
Ignore him. Virtually all HoI4 mods are just fluff upon fluff, with zero gameplay changes, because hey, who needs gameplay, right?
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hoi4 will never let you experience the joy of attaching a single cute little infantry regiment to your theatre HQ as a headcanon base security force for the defense ministry
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>>412509
Do you they make any core gameplay changes?
No they cant. That's the engine and its unchangeable. They just script retarded shit like making the USA communist and having Belgium invade Britain 1936, then they jizz their pants because they think they are "elite game designers". Then they go full spastic if called out for their brain dead drooling nonsense, thrashing about and spilling the contents of their piss pot everywhere.

Put it this way, the more mods a game has the more fucked up the base game is. A good game doesn't attract modders.
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>>413114
>not attaching 4x SHARM and leading from the front
>>
>>413087
hoi3 already has that distinction by combat width
0 width brigades are implicitly support brigades since theyre not on the front
this let rich nations support their infantry more by allowing them to double up and artillery, have engineers, at, aa, ac etc with 2 inf compared to the common 3 inf + art and later at
in goi$ anyone who isnt poor runs 3 or typically 5 support brigades and you cant attach more artillery because now artillery uses frontage
its a massive change and i dont understand why it was made beyond retarded ideas like "more brigades = more gooder" or as something for star mana to do
>>
>>413676
By HoI3 logic, AT artillery and TDs are support, rather than direct combat and this is my main gripe with it. This became particularly egregious in BICE, where you have much wider and detailed brigade types, but those still go as support.
Also, HoI4 allows me to have those retarded Japanese divisions, with a literal handful of light tanks added to infantry divsion as the cheapo tank support. Of course the game can't handle it at all and makes such division pound infantry with 4x bonus (what the fuck?!), but it was still nice to have all the schizo divisions.
But other than that, yeah, I agree with your entire point. Again, I said "slightly more interesting". HoI4 is brain-dead by default, so those tiny changes end up being meaningles anyway

We will never have game that combines HoI3 logistic sytem (and improving it further) with HoI4 gear production (and improving it further) and convoy hunting combining all the good elements from 2, 3 and 4.
t. GWX3 player
>>
>>409065
why poles did't join you?
>>
>>413788
>t. GWX3 player
Based silent hunter.
Each new HoI and each expansion or change to any of those games, I always go full Blue Emu on submarine warfare. If it sticks, the game can be fun. If no, then there is something very, very wrong with the supply system.
Guess what happens in 4, especially before they've re-introduced fuel (because that at least allowed to hunt SOMETHING when hurting UK/Jap with subs)
>>
>>413676
In hoi3 I never saw the AI use brigade composition to its advantage. I found one big advantage was to immediately reorganize all your forces into four brigades, whatever country you played as. The long term advantages were overpowering. You could be sure that one division of yours could beat one division of theirs on plains terrain. If you got the tech that allowed 5 brigades in a division that was even more powerful. Armored divisions of 2xArm, 2xMoto, 1x Engineer. One corps of that and you could carve your way through anything. Meanwhile the AI would still be fucking around mostly with 3 brigade divisions even in 1945. Not uncommon to see a 4xBritish infantry/moto division smash up a 3xpanzer division. Defeat in detail. Eventually I introduced a house rule to prohibit myself building these strong divisions just because of the advantage it gave me.

I never saw the point of attaching art brigades either. Unless you had a severe manpower problem. They would slow you down in bad terrain, were just another tech to research/ upgrade, and never seemed to make any significant difference over just adding another infantry brigade. Unless I was doing something like rping as France or Poland I would always go for 4xInf, or 5x. Being able to split them into two reasonably strong divisions for exploitation phases was also an advantage.

Same for antitank brigades. Just build fighters instead. Much more effective. Likewise Anti tank. Just build Armour instead. Not that I ever saw a concentrated armored attack by the AI. Fuck, just go on the offensive instead.

You would save so much by not wasting leadership points on trying to research up to date tech in these areas.

It all seemed rather unbalanced to me. I was hoping HOI4 would address all these issues, and the many other problems HOI3 had, despite otherwise being a great game. I was disappointed that did not happen in Hoi4. All we got was a lite version of HOI3 with some truly childish graphics.
>>
>>413797
Not him, but I cannot recommend you BICE more.
>>
>>413792
>Blue Emu
Not the famous Blu "Sink the Bastards" Emu from the Pdx HOI forums?
>>
>>413803
Must try that, I have heard it makes things interesting
>>
>>413808
Might be Blu. Either way the guy did the "sink the shit out of Merchant Navy and watch UK collapse" experiment and turns out that yeah, by investing heavily into subs, you can utterly butt-fuck UK in Doomsday and thus, in HoI2 in general. Replicable in HoI3, utterly useless in vanilla HoI4 and somewhat good against UK and Japan with Man the Guns DLC (but only agaisnt those two)

>>413813
Very. It has its own issues, but compared with vanilla, a step up in every possible direction. Including making AI use proper divisions.
>>
>>413676
I think the main issue HoI3 has is the upgrade system. Fucking hate that shit. HoI2 had at least the decency to speed things up when you are upgrading "double-obsolete" stuff, along with ability to just jump directly to the most modern design if you could afford the assorted fee (but still usually affordable). HoI3? No, sorry, you have to spend full time upgrading every single fucking bit of your equipment separately, step-by-step. Annoying as all hell. This is the rare situation where even 4 and it's "wait for modern rifles to be delivered" is better.
>>
>>413817
Yeah, it was Blue Emu. I just found his thread on the very subject you are talking about.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/are-submarines-worthless.264824/
Reading it brings back some fond memories of when I started HOI3 and had no idea what I was doing. I would go there to find answers about the game. That forum was so alive with intelligent discussion. People debating best unit composition, different strategies, alternative play styles, talking about all the pros and cons of HOI3 as a game. I probably spent more time reading stuff there than I did actually playing the game.
>>
>>413838
Most of the oldfags left the forum by mid-10s. Not in some sort of protest or something, they've simply moved on. Those who stayed, mostly inhibit the mods subforum, since that's where the fun stuff is going on. There really isn't much to discuss with either EU4 or HoI4 in terms of strategy, since having a semi-functional brain is more than enough even as a complete newfag. And I don't even mean it as some sort of diss - I find how ungodly incomprehensive EU2 was when I was trying to learn it and it took me years to crack it (the wiki didn't even reach it useful format and content until late 00s, long after premiere) to be truly confident about my capability of playing it. EU4? I've tried it on my much younger cousing, simply giving it to him and he managed without much issues, despite playing a sub-par game as Denmark. This made his far easier to explain him 3 and get the "4th guy for bridge" to play multiplayer. Because from his perspective, 3 was "more complex, more obtuse 4", rather than 4 being "dumbed down 3".
Thanks for reading my blog, I guess
>>
>>413791
Why would they? What would they gain out of going to war while the Soviets are on their east.
>>
Are there any good hoi3 total conversion mods that would make me want to play again?
>>
>>413826
But upgrading is worth it in HoI3 and almost never worth it in DH.
>>
>>413797
>the ai is bad
i am shocked
the problem with your logic is that 3 4xinf divisions arent better than 4 3xinf divisions. Making narrower divisions with more support lets you maximize your frontage - 4 3xinf + 1xart will completely shit on 3 4xinf
and yes infantry is the single most cost effective unit in the game (besides arguably gar) but this allows ic rich nations to make more use of the same frontage than ic poor nations
eg when fighting in italy youve only got a 5 or so tile wide front america can have maximally equipped 2 width divisions and shit all over 3 or 4 width italians who are poor
in goi$ almost everyone has the same infantry divisions and the only difference is making space marines to abuse armour or, more likely in mp, needing to attach heavy tds to everything because everyone is abusing armour and hardness
>One corps of that and you could carve your way through anything.
youre not seeing the point
adding sp-art or ac just makes your force stronger whereas adding more mot can be useless if your already maxed out on width. In russia this doesnt mean much because width is rarely the limiting factor but in western europe or even africa it is
>never saw the point of attaching art
>Same for antitank brigades
nigger what are you retarded the piercing bonus is massive
the ai is dumbfuck retarded of course you can beat it with nothing but mil and gar but the system works well
its telling that in goi$ the only reason the ai makes inferior brigades is because it doesnt abuse mixing in tiny amounts of armour
>>413788
>literal handful of light tanks added to infantry divsion as the cheapo tank support.
yeah and thats broken and stupid
40 light tds distributed in a division of 15k troops shouldnt be almost as effective as dispersed support as 2000 tanks
>this is my main gripe
why? it makes sense - theyre supplemental to infantry and motor units. Artillery battalions only ever support other units
its the main change that made hoi4 devolve into armour spam
>>
>>413979
Calls me retarded and a nigger?
Game on.
Right. I see. You are a halfwit who fancies themselves an expert. I will take the trouble to explain why your mother was an addict, as amply indicated by your fetal alcohol syndrome.

If you are worried about frontage then you are doing it all wrong. You are twisting your balls into a knot over gaining a minor advantages in inconsequential battles at the expense of strategy. That's why you find world conquest such a difficult task, while for strategic players its trivial.
>this allows ic rich nations to make more use of the same frontage than ic poor nations
My point is proven, although doubtless you still will not understand why. If you are IC rich then you dont fuck around, you just wipe them out.
>eg when fighting in italy
You just dont see a problem here, do you? Let me spell it out. You are fighting in Italy.
>width is rarely the limiting factor but in western europe or even africa it is
We got ourselves a regular Ambrose Burnside here, folks. But lets save the best for last. A full on contradiction in terms, one straight after the other. Here it is.
>nigger what are you retarded the piercing bonus is massive
>the ai is dumbfuck retarded of course you can beat it with nothing but mil and gar
Really? So why bother adding antitank, which is exactly what I said, there is no point. Spend the LS something else. My God you are such a bimbo. Make me a sandwich, bitch.

Hey. This was fun. Lets do it again sometime.
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>>414192
>So why bother adding antitank, which is exactly what I said, there is no point.
Anon not everyone plays against the AI and compstomps.
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>>413947
Depends on the increment of it. DH does make upgrades viable, some even very, by the virtue of drastically increasing defense and/or adding hard attack to your infantry. In fact, DH is the only HoI2 where upgrades are truly worth it, since your starting army can be easily made from WW1-tier units and you need to upgrade that infantry into something that won't crumble 5 days into a battle. I think China vs. Japan is the best example of it. Your most "modern" divisions at the start are '18 models. You have blueprints up to the '33 models. This means you gain a bit of soft attack, a bit of defensivness (very important in your case) and some hard attack, too. Upgrading your units to at least the late 20s tech is crucial to stand any fucking chance whatsoever against Japanese, because it will be far cheaper than making those units new. OR you can wait up a bit and directly upgrade them to the '36 tech, thus negating entirely the Japanese tech advantage against your units, which makes sense in DH with ability to just directly upgrade to the max unit, at the 1.n price of upgrades (always less than 2 times the production cost of a new one), saving time and actual production on upgrades this way thanks to the fractions that add up vs. doing it step-by-step.
In HoI3, you have to upgrade every single piece separately and only step by step. Upgraded all four component of infantry? Congrats, each goes separately. No discounts, no faster upgrades, just one stage after another, always step by step, UNLESS you want to outright rebuild the unit, but that means simply producing it anew. Depending on your practical, that might mean it will take a fuckload of extra time, and, far worse, IC. And not all units can be properly "retrained" this way. In case of China, you are absolutely butt-fucked in this scenario, since you are better off just shitting out as many units as you can than even thinking about upgrading them.
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>>413979
Anon, it's like you are reading what you want to read, rather than what's written. I said "of course the game can't handle it at all", and what you do? Act like I didn't and chimp out how broken it is.
I know that.
And I've pointed it out.
Doesn't change the fact that having that option is neat. HoI3 removed the super-useful support brigades from the game to represent this kind of stuff, instead applying division composition as such, but didn't iron it out until FtM and it didn't became good until modders had a run with it.
I want to have an ability to do far better divisions. The one from 3 are just too crude in their compositions, the ones from 4 are simply broken, but there is easily a middle ground between them, along with making the system workable.
So calm your fucking horses.
>>
>BICE
Since at least some anons are familiar, can someone finally fucking explain me how the mixed brigades are supposed to work? Composing them is intended to provide you partial bonuses of selected elements or it's something else?
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>>414266
HOI3 multiplayer. Yeah, good luck with that.
>>
Hmm. A HOI3 thread. Why is the quality of discussion here vastly superior to most other threads on this board?
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>>409065
Granted I only tried it a few times, but every time I played France I found myself crippled by the shortage of resources without the money to buy what I needed. It seemed the only way to was to sell shitloads of supplies, if you could find a buyer. In that case so much of your IC was taken up in making supplies it crippled your ability to make enough units to defend the honor of France. Then when the Germans attacked I would slowly lose.

It also hurt to see the Brits with most of their army doing nothing while the scared soil of France was ravaged by those beastly Hun. I began to understand the historical antipathy the French had for the British, Operation Catapult not withstanding.
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>>415056
france is tough imo, but you can really defend maginot with like, 1 division per province. Then just be sure to load up on artillery and anti-tank (divisions like 1inf 1inf 1art 1at), and specialize/limit your research. Then just dig in in the Ardennes. Also bring in at least some of your colonial troops. Only non-army thing you should consider is fighters. At first it will be really hard and you'll probably have 0 divisions in reserve at times, but you just slowly keep building up behind Maginot & the ardennes and reinforcing until Barbarossa, and when germany's really spread out on the eastern front you go in for the kill (having had plenty of time to research & build up industry).

anyways, that's my tl;dr france guide
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>>415056
France is artificially gimped in every hoi game to ensure Germany can win. I always find it ironic how manpower is the one thing you have enough of considering that was what France struggled with historically
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>>409065
QUESTION: does HoI3 model combat better than Hoi4 or DH, I mean the battles themselves, are they modelled deeper? Basically if it is wargame, or regular parashit with more micro
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>>415414
You can do movement warfare with breakouts and encirclements, it's not exactly panzer general where individual unit confrontations resolve much faster.
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>>414955
It's essentially 1/nth of the bonuses provided by the real deal, depending on the number of elements it has. So if there are 4 components to it, each provides 1/4th of a bonus of a real brigade of this type, 1/5th if there were 5 components and so on. Mixed brigades are best avoided entirely, unless you've unlocked the tech for extra brigade AND are making paratroopers and/or marines. Otherwise, you're always better off with an actual, real deal, since having 1/5th power of an engineering brigade and 1/5th of a TD and few other things aren't worth it in 9 out of 10 cases.
>>
>>415056
>>415343
Or you can do the sensible thing and stick to original defense plan and extend Maginot line to sea. This way you can easily defend your country without much issues, while from 1940 onward you stop suffering from variety of penalties you had from political unstability and similar problems

>>415414
Definitely better than HoI4 in just about every regard Combat modifiers in that one are fucking broken, so you can add a literal handful of SPArt based on heavy tanks and the modifiers from this will mean the other side will be unable to affect your entire division, consisting from nothing else but poorly armed infantry and on the other hand, there is far more space to move on than in DH, meaning you can have far more meaningful tactical situation than "pile 15 divisions from 3 different provinces and watch enemy burn".
Let me put it this way. HoI3 is the only one when you can pull shit like firebombing your own ports as China and as a result cut off invading Japanese from supplies, affecting their combat performance. Or bomb the shit out of Trans-Siberian Rail, so Soviet Far East ends up cut off. You can't do that in any other HoI game, which in my book means 3 is above them
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>>415637
>May '36
>Attacking Republic of Spain as Germany, going through France
What the fuck happend here?
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>>415876
Not him but Germany can place spies to raise threat and go for an early war. Iirc you can declare on a targeted nation as early as March 36. From that point its really a game of "how fast can I annex the world?" Think my fastest record was something ridiculous like mid 1938, I am sure others have done it even faster. You have trouble with rebels though because you literally do not have time to get suppression units in supply into places like central Russia. But that hardly matters.
You can also go ahistorical with other nations by an event called "prepare for war", where you deliberately lower your IC to get the event. Basically it allows you to start declaring war much early than normally possible.So you can go full aggro playing as the USA and attack everyone for a similarly fast world conquest. Despite the map painting aspect it can make for a fun game. Try a belligerent USA and declare war on every country in the world the moment that option becomes available. Your naval commanders will love you.
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>>415917
You can't. There is the no neutrality cheat, but that's it to go so fast over France, even as Germany.
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>>415963
You can conquer france pretty fast if your rebuild germanies ground forces dispanding most of the navy with a custom game start.
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>>416010
>with a custom game start
C'm on, anon
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>>416014
I don't have history autism or get why my world conquest should be stopped by some neutrality bs.
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>>409065
Does anyone have the latest black ice (and/or whatever your favorite black ice version is)? I have ran into this issue https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/5024 so I can't register my hoi3 copy to the paradox site.
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>>415963
>There is the no neutrality cheat
>Using cheats in HOI3
That's so low you could parachute out of a snake's bumhole and freefall most of the way down
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>>409065
HOI3 AARs are the best AARs
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>>416700
>t. non-existing reading comprehension
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>>417075
irony, the post
learn to English motherfucker
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>>417156
Cool story, bro.
Call us all back once you figure out what sarcasm is.
>>
just lol
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>>417166
No seriously. You are some dumb Kraut with a crappy English teacher. The reference goes back to the previous posts and you are too incompetent to get it.
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>>416627
pls resbond
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>>411442
hard difficulty is still very managable and even needed for a fair fight imo, because there are many ways the AI can be tricked to give you big advantages. If you don't use these advantages however, some scenarios become near impossible, on very hard at least
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>>416028
you can declare war on Poland in 36 and after that anyone you want, no need for a custom start honestly
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>>420759
>Not playing on very hard with restrictive house rules.
>Not playing a disadvantageous start date.

You have brought great dishonor upon our house.
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>>420782
Good thing I did.
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>Steamrolls Poland, the Benelux, France, UK, and the Soviets in HOI 3 as Germany
>Filtered by France in DH because it has less provinces so everything moves more slowly and in a huge stack making all my attack stalls in Belgium
What do?
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>>421341
Have you tried not being retarded and do a spearhead? You know, a fucking blitzkrieg - pierce through the border, tie French troops with your infantry, while doing a zig-zag pattern to keep tying their border troops, while your fastest unit is heading straight to Paris.
The trick is and always have been to pierce border at TWO provinces, not just one, and use the southern to keep tying down French forces, while the northern line keeps advancing. Also, dive bombers and tacticals, obviously.
In other words: if you weren't brain-dead, you would roll over France twice as fast as Wehrmacht did irl
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>>416627
>>418905
Here is the 10.33, which I think is the most recent one. Personally I prefer the 10.32 (which I still play), because the changes in the naval combat are a mixed bag and I don't enjoy the heavy cruiser spam strategy the .33 reintroduced. But anyway:
anonfiles 98k1seJdp2
If you aren't retarded, you will know how to install it and where put what. If you are (which seems to be the case, considering the begging), you will have bunch of errors on trying to make it run. And thus my consciousness is clean and free of any burden.
Seriously, HoI3 is like a dollar on GOG, after over a decade it might be a good thing to finally validate your pirate copy for that flimsy dollar, out of which 85 cents will stay with GOG.
>>
you guys made me want to play this game again
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>>420821
>using militia
>as Germany
Great dishonor.
>>
>>420821
>playing germany
Even your grandchildren won't be able to repent for this sin
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>>421359
You do understand that you are the fuckhead here, dont you?
Unless you are doing some sort of schizo role playing known only to yourself.
Otherwise we can only conclude that somehow you picked up some sort of prion brain disease, probably from you fucking a pig. Or maybe its from when you were fucked up the arse by your grandfather. Either way it has severely affected your cognitive abilities.
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>>422286
>Told how to do Fall Gelb
>REEEEEEEEEEEE! REEEEEEEEEEE!
No wonder you can't pull this off on your own.
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>>422379
No, its the guy was obviously pretending to be retarded, and was actually making a very subtle point that went right over your head. But you are too stupid to realize that. Then you went full autard explaining the patently obvious, as if you are some gate keeper.
Protip, if you are shitty at context, internet and game culture, and the subtleties of the English language, then you should really do the world favor and shut the fuck up. Its pretty simple, even a down syndrome fuck like you should be able to follow that.
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>>422400
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Here, just for you I've loaded the 1940 start, turned off my brain, ignored airforce (except for Holland, because fuck the Dutch), ignored restructuring the army and just moving the troops you're given over the map
Parts 1-6
https://i.imgur.com/xHe54sA.jpg
Parts 7-12
https://i.imgur.com/9i4k4hj.png

Oh wow, taking over France is SOOOOO hard. The biggest hurdle I've had was realising half-way through that I've got trade set to manual and I didn't set up any oil imports, so I'm doing blitzkrieg without fuel. Still trashed France without even trying.
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>>422286
>>422400
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>>422449
>>422467
Seriously, try learning English sometime.
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>>422640
Nice argument, bro
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>>421407
Not that anon, but thanks a bunch!
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>>422684
Not the grammar, you need to learn comprehension. Like understanding the content, the message, the meaning. Otherwise you will always be considered a second rate intelligence.
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>>422724
>If I keep shitting up about "learn English, lmao", I will be able to ignore the fact some random anon in the net proved, with pictures, that I'm incompetent at playing DH
>You see, I was merely pretending to be a moron, but now I'm genuinely going full retard here to save face on a Tibetan tanka weaving forum
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>>422688
If you need any different mod, just say so. If it's not HoI4 or Imperator faggotry, there is a good chance I've got access to it or have old files stored
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>>422733
What country are you from? I could give you some pointers. There are a number of common mistakes ESL speakers often make. Think of this as your chance to upgrade. From blithering retard to blabbering retard.
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>>422743
>N-no, I-I can still win this
>I j-just need to ignore reality
>Yes, an epic win i-incoming!
Call us all when you will finally learn how to do double envelopment and thus stop struggling with battle of France
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>>422747
That wasn't me, you nugget, I really dont give a shit what ego trip you are on, jizzing yourself over beating a hapless AI. I was pointing out your incompetence at understanding the subtlety of his post.

Oh wait. Did I use a nasty English word not in your vocabulary? Here you go.

Subtlety
-a small but important detail
-hard to notice
-a fine-drawn distinction
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>>422449
So this is the power of DH and how hard it is?
Not gonna lie, not impressed - by the game, not your conquest.
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>>422792
nta, but the fuck you are even doing, mate?
>>
I like BlackICE shame that it railroads events so hard
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>>422972
How the hell Allies still have convoys in 1943?
Please don't tell me you build insufficiently large U-boot fleet
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>>422975
Speaking about subs, what was the actual point of heavy subs in DH? Or they are just a gimmick to represent what was historically a gimmick, too?
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>>412224
>Resistance is way more impactful in HoI4 in HoI3 you just have to defeat some pathetic rebels sometimes. In HoI4 you MUST suppress them.
In HoI3 the nation being attacked can literally spawn in like 30 partisan divisions behind enemy lines as you they are invaded, in HoI4 you literally just have like 4 police brigades and all of northern France can just tear up unless the entire allies is trying to increase resistance using spies, meaning playing a true resistance France playthrough impossible
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>>422849
Teaching English to a dog who wont let go of a bone. The stupid mutt doesn't even realize its got the wrong bone.
>why do you care?
Its amusing to call out Dunning-Kruger fucks who shit boards up because they cant comprehend native English.
>>
>>423849
Obviously different anon, but how the fuck anyone could get to the conclusion 4 has "better" resistance system? I mean fuck, partisans in 3, along with the 20 years unrest after conquest on uncored (which lasted longer than the game) meant you have endless struggle with this shit and the fact it was hitting your logistics only made it worse. And then of course were the governments in exile, sending you commandos to fuck you up hard, to the point you could have an open insurection, requiring relocation of some frontline units to try to contain it.
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>>424130
nta, but I never found partisans to be a problem in hoi3. That was with plenty of "no puppeting" world conquests. You just make sure to allocate production to a steady trickle of 2 brigade Cav divisions and spread them around. One for France, another for Spain, one for Poland, four for South America, another four for North America, and so on. That way you dont need to backtrack any front line units to whack them. A few paratroops can also serve.

I never saw the point in building resistance cells either. The AI always has plenty of troops running around behind the lines, so they would get squashed fast. Far better things to use IC on something else, imho.
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>>424370
>never seen the point in resistance cells
i see that you have never thrown up a retarded amount of partisans behind enemy lines to tear apart the stability of the enemy supply line, or perform a massive cutoff
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>>424370
.... have you actually tried to play the game?
Genuinely asking, not even being dismissive. Because it sounds to me you've missed out some of the more interesting features the game had, and now are doing some convoluted "I didn't use it, so it means it's useless" circular logic
>>
I've been playing on and off for a few weeks now. Probably sunk about 12 hours into the game plus another 6 or 7 into watching tutorials and let's plays. I still can't beat the Spanish Civil War Scenario as Republicans or make any meaningful gains in the main campaign. I just keep getting stuck and overwhelmed and restarting games after a few hours without making any progress. I think I might be a brainlet.
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>>422846
DH isn't hard, it's fun. Anyone calling DH hard is a nu-Paradox smoothbrain.
HoI3 offers greater detail and challenge at the expense of freedom of action in diplomacy, and politics to some extent. HoI3 also has less good mods
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>>424509
Actually no, never tried that. Just punched out a few resistance cells out of curiosity, probably mismanaged them, didn't think they did much, and didn't bother with them again. Then I got into speed run world conquests where they are not needed. Then I got into very hard level difficulty with house rules and adverse start dates. For the most part those games can be so tight I cant imagine having the spare IC for anything other than survival. I am guessing you used them en-masse for carpeting occupied France or Russia just prior to launching a major offensive?
>>
Is this game worth playing if I primarily like wargames and am not particularly interested in managing economic/political shit? If yes, I see HOI4 get shit on all the time; what is the reason?
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>>426679
>Is this game worth playing if I primarily like wargames and am not particularly interested in managing economic/political shit?
The economics and political shit is closely connected to the war shit. You could play with AI control over these aspects but you would then handicap or compromise your military progress. It's a one way to increase the game's difficulty level though. You would probably prefer Total War series instead.

>I see HOI4 get shit on all the time; what is the reason?
HOI3 is great, but has its own host of problems. Just one example: its ridiculously easy for Germany to invade the UK without air superiority and without building up its navy. All you need is your existing fleet and a few infantry corps. Many players introduced their own house rules to deal with this sort of thing. Many players hoped that HOI4 would basically be a dramatically improved and upgraded HOI3 with all the problems fixed and with a much better AI. As it turned out HOI4 was a dumbed down version of HOI3. It has a couple of good features but overall its regarded as a kiddie's lite version of HOI3. That's one reason. The second reason is HOI4 attracts a certain kind of player, young kids, fantasy game players, and just plain retards who are literally too stupid to understand just how stupid they are. That would not be a problem in itself, but the way they continuously shill HOI4 and create endless threads about HOI4 which are usually devoid of any real content or meaningful discussion, is just annoying.

Both games will have their fill of retards. But have a look at a typical HOI3 thread and it will usually have a lot of relevant game related and historical discussion. The discussion will usually be cordial and intelligent. Look at a typical HOI4 thread and it will usually be full of memes and autistic screeching.
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>>426074
You can go right off the rails a bit in HOI3 though. And by doing so break chain events. You dont have to even do any convoluted political stuff either. I have gone full ballistic WC as the UK, USA and Japan, among others, whereby you just declare war on everyone. The only restriction is not being able to get out of existing factions. So UK can never declare on France. :(
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>>409081
Update on the situation.
I really thought my goose was cooked. The Russians took Novograd, they pushed through the swamps between Leningrad and Moscow. They occupied two provinces next to Moscow itself. However I managed to hold them along the rivers all the way to Rostov. There a desperate battle was fought over the hill province immediately north of Rostov, integral to the defense of Rostov.. If Rostov fell then the gates would open and it really would be all over. I lost that hill province several times, only to regain it in nail biting counterattacks by the 1st, 3rd and 38th Mountain corps, along with a few armored units.

However those dirty Germans just kept on attacking along the lines. They would keep breeching the brave Russian defenses and threaten breakouts. Each time every spare reserve rushed forward to seal the gap, counter attacking where possible. But these counterattacks took a fearful toll on organization even when successful. It wasn't uncommon to have up to 12 divisions just sitting in high infrastructure cities, all along the line, just recovering. I kept gradually losing key provinces, I just couldn't keep enough guys at the front.

Finally, mid November, with some upgraded Armour and the Siberian reserves I was able to pull off a counteroffensive in the plains south of Moscow. The Tula Offensive. It soon petered out after taking some provinces but it drew off some pressure elsewhere and bought some more time. Then winter kicked in on December 1st. Doesn't really do much to the Germans but it gives me a much welcome 30 organization regain boost.

More desperate fighting continued until now, February 1942. The situation is still precarious as the Germans now threaten to isolate Leningrad via their broad advance through the swamps, elsewhere things have now quieted down a bit, enabling me to assemble some large armored reserves and carry out much needed reorganization.
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>>427052
I'm a retard
>The Russians took Novograd,
No, the GERMANS took Novograd.
>>
>>426074
DH is first and foremost called hard by the KR brainlets, who are so used to the fact that research doesn't matter and everyone is equally meaningless 2nd rate country, they get filtered by DH HARD. And it only got worse once majority of KR playerbase started to come from HoI4, which means they don't even grasp the basics of HoI2 needed to face DH.
Ironic, given how DH is like baseline HoI2, but less shit, rather than some actual "hardcore" stuff
>>
>>426679
Let me put it to you this way: at release there was no representation of fuel in HOI4, oil was used exclusively to build vehicles, ships, and planes, not to operate them. This persisted for three years until the lackluster naval update. Overall it's a pretty poor historical sim with focus trees receiving far more attention than they should. Also the HOI4 fanbase is absolute cancer.
>>
>>426679
Yes, very much so. Like one of the anons already pointed out, you can delegate things to AI and as long as your goal is being on offensive, then AI should easily suffice for managing your economy and thus unit production. Defensive wars require far more prep (for obvious reasons), so hoping for AI to handle all aspects of that prep is optimistic at best, suicidal at worst. Still, as far as fighting a WW2-style war, the game is perfectly fine.
HoI4 is shat on for combination of being a poorly made and poorly designed game, with actively cancerous playerbase and throughout its further development sliding down the mediocrity slope. It's a game so devoid of any sort of challenge, you might as well just print yourself a contur map of the world, pick a crayon and paint it your favourite colour, giving you potentially more fulfilling experience than playing HoI4
>>
>>426679
>>429812
To put some perspective how fucked up HoI4 is:
You can conquer the entire world as Luxemburg
By 1942 or so (the game starts in 1936) mark.
Without gaming the system or abusing any sort of bugs.

Luxemburg starts the game with not enough manpower to field a single division and being entirely disarmed.
>>
>>421341
In DH, the big challenge for me has always been getting to Sedan. If I can get troops to that province then the war is pretty much won.
You need a huge concentration of force there. Not really doable to attack from two provinces, so be sure to attack with 24. Have even more infantry there to launch diversionary attack on other provinces around, so the French won't reinforce Sedan with 40 divisions.
Once you break through, go take Paris, then occupy 1/3 of their country. The other surrender condition is to have 2.5 times more divisions than France, which is harder to achieve.
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>>430107
>the big challenge
>big
Bitch, are you for real? Consult >>422449
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>>430157
>plays game with little dinky toy soldier sprites
>says "bitch"
Real coomer brain. Go back to Hoi4, where you belong.
'
>>
>>430174
It's not even my post, you idiot. The point is that the game isn't hard nor rolling over Sedan is hard. In fact, it takes to be precisely coomer brain playing HoI4 to find taking it from more than a single angle tough, since only an idiot would attack a province covered by a river from just a single angle
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>>420821
>New Polish capital in Kamienna
>A village of less than 250 people in it and less than 200 back then
>Despite Kielce, a regional capital and substantial city pre-war, being right next to it
Gotta love shit like this in HoI3
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>>430174
>Not recognising a quote
>Muh big brain NATO tokens, yet struggles with DH
>Complains about brainlets, despite being one
Is this the fabled Dunning-Kruger in action?
>>
>>429818
How do you do that?
>>
>>430757
Stick with HOI4 retard, its something you might be able to handle. On easy mode.
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>>430794
>posts gif of his black boyfriend
>Raving homosexual as well as a gibbering retard
>Struggles to play hoi4
It figures. You would be better off playing Risk with your black boyfriend. Its one game where he might go easy on you.
>>
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>>430804
>>430810
>being a genuine retard
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>>430797
Nta, but last time that joke was being posted, it was a four-step plan:
1) Conquer Belgium
2) Conquer Holland
3) Conquer Germany
4) Conquer rest of the world
AI is notoriously incompetent, so having two divisions is more than enough to just roll over the Low Countries and from there on you should have enough materiel and manpower to simply attack Germany and reliably win. With German industry, you can now supplement your army with large quantity of SPArt based on heavy tanks and you just roll over the planet. Technically you can do that as a Luxemburg from the start, but you want to take over Germany BEFORE they DoW on Poland.
>>
>>430804
>>430810
t. actual HoI4 player
>>
>>430839
>>430865
Here is a game plan suitable for you diseased homosexuals. Just follow the steps, if that isn't too hard for your AIDS infected brains.
>>430846
1) Conquer Belgium
2) Conquer Holland
3) Conquer Germany
4) Conquer rest of the world
>>
>Comfy HoI3 thread
>Until HoI4 /v/tard shows up and starts chimping out
Every single time

>>422972
>Over quarter mil of body bags
What the fuck even happend here?
>>
Just play HoI4 you contrarian retards.
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No!
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>>415034
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>>431314
26 April 1936. So essentially you have won at this point. In retrospect you won the moment you unpaused on Jan 1st. The only challenge for you now is how quickly you can paint the world map. Which is essentially just a simple, if rather tedious, exercise in production management.

So whats your next HOI3 game?
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>>432432
I still plan on fighting the UDSSR and maybe USA/Japan. This is where the last time I dropped on normal. But I gave the AI + 100% res/IC/MP/Officers and me -50% so let's see how it goes.
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>>432481
Tasty pocket.
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>>427052
Update on the situation.
Its now March 1942. The situation just keeps getting worse. Their progress is slow but I just cant hold the bastards. Every success I have is countered by some new fresh disaster unfolding. I take out Finland in February. Cool, so that's about 12 infantry divisions I can use elsewhere. But for some reason the AI decides it has plenty of fresh divisions to use in continuing its advance between Leningrad and Moscow. They are within two provinces of reaching the coast well east of Leningrad now. The defenses are shattered, divisions in retreat everywhere with hardly any reserves left. The troops from Finland will not arrive in time.

Over winter I did manage to assemble a couple of strategic reserves. Which I launched in two major offensives. One between Rostov and Voronezh. One just south of Tula. Big mistake. They got munched on the German defenses. I thought I would have inflected sufficient damage, but no, I barely scratched the Axis. In response they counter attacked. I lost most of the gains I had made earlier, and now I am back to frantically organizing last ditch defenses while stacks of battered Russian tank and infantry are recovering their strength in high infrastructure centers. Overall, and despite the surrender of Finland, I am now in a worse position than I was two months ago. I just can not afford to keep losing ground. I have now got most of the Siberians back to the Western Theater and yet I have squandered them. The -40% combat malus is just killing me, but so is everything else. Most of my IC is still taken up just on supplies and reinforcements. I cant upgrade more than a few units. I can not produce more than a small trickle of new units. I cant trade my way out of supplies. Its very grim indeed.

Am I enjoying this? Yes and no. No, because the amount of necessary micromanagement is just nuts, yet crucial to staving off defeat. Yes, because its desperate, and unusual for me to play so defensively for so long.
>>
i'm a hoi4 fag looking to switch because holy fuck is hoi4 mind numbing and i ask what's the combat like? is it like hoi4 where all wars just become a race to snake artillery/infantry cheese units to VPs?
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>>409065
someone please tell me how to get this running on win10. it keeps freezing on startup
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>>433800
Either run a GOG re-release or get the unofficial patch for making is interact properly with 64bit OS. That patch is advised for GOG re-release anyway, but isn't necesary to make the game work
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>>433731
>i'm a hoi4 fag
Play Darkest Hour instead. HoI3 will be unironically too much for you to swallow at once if your only prior experience came from HoI4
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>>433810
same question applies but for DH then
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>>415034
It’s almost like HoI3 filters out retards by not having shitty meme outcomes for streamers and actually decent gameplay
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>>433731
Just look up some utube vids. There's plenty out there. Will give you a much better idea than what we can write here.
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>>433885
Typical HOI4 thread
>lol
>Mah army!
>lol
>Lmao
>meme face
>lol
Typical HOI3 thread
>Submarines are only cost effective when produced in sufficient quantity
>You can force a French surrender without taking Paris
>Mechanized infantry are not worth developing unless you are a major power
>Try very hard mode, its way more difficult
>Nice encirclement you did there.
>Damn, I have run out of oil.
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>>433875
Depends on who you are playing as. Unlike HoI4, you can pretty much forget about playing the exact same meta with exact same units, unless that meta is "slightly obsolete pure infantry divisions without any support brigades"
For example, building tanks as Poland is near impossible, but due to the way how early wars units are balanced and organised, '39 cavalry division is on par with '39 light tanks and only struggles with medium tanks, while as Poland, you have plenty of those at the game start, meaning you can invest into those
The combat is on provincional level, since maps has far less provinces with far bigger scale to them. However, individual provinces do matter a fuckload (even more so in HoI3), so it can make or break a country and your entire war effort if you seize an industrial heartland with 15 IC and 200 energy produced there. Also, airforce is manual, rather than "just set up air wings, bro", so it's like a brain surgery, rather than just waiting for the air superiority/air support modifier to kick in during battles
Either way, DH is the best "entry point" for a newfag that only prior played HoI4, since it still operates on many abstractions that 3 expanded on - very simplified logistics, no radio coverage, old-style HQ, only having oil (without fuel) and still building divisions as a whole, rather than assembling them for maximum combat prowess. On top of that, map is smaller, which makes things less overwhelming, and you can reliably starve the UK with submarines on global scale (since colonial units are undersupplied, too).
Play first game with '33 start as Soviet Union or Japan (neither of them really suffers from the depression at the game start) and you should easily learn the ropes. Or load '36 start as Germany, but that's boring as all fuck

>>434117
Mechanized infantry is not worth developing, period. This is true for pretty much every single HoI game. The only exception was DH, where it's one of pre-requisites to unlock air cavalry
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>>434178
*early war
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>>433875
Also, this is WW2. This means encirclements with mobile element of your army is the hottest thing to do. If you plan to play any older HoI like 4, where you just keep pushing forward, good luck winning any wars at all, unless you have absurd numerical and technological superiority. Instead, your goal is stuff like >>422449 or >>431314 or >>432481, where you surround enemy units from all sides, leaving them no room to escape and then simply eradicate them. Otherwise, they will just keep retreating, both slowing your invasion (since you will have to fight non-stop for each province) and expanding your frontage, meaning you might end up too spread out, fighting too many areas at once, which will fuck-up your logistics, along with decreasing your power projection, ultimately leading to a stalemate and/or counter-offensive.
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>>434178
>Mechanized infantry is not worth developing, period.
The point was to illustrate the type of discussion found in a HOI3 thread. Not to debate the the worth of mechanized infantry, which are trivial. HOI4 threads rarely have any discussion of actual game mechanics, unit attribution, cost effectiveness, and the interaction between various economic factors and the military situation. On the other hand these sorts of topics are commonly discussed within HOI3 threads.
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>>434266
Point taken.
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>>434178
I find Nat China in '33 to be the best learning tool, DESPITE heavily gimped start. But it's the exact kind of game you want to play to learn things: you need to work against your disadvantages, rather than being in cushy position where coasting on advantages is all you have to do. The only downside are the god-awful Chinese tech teams (seriously, fuck that shit and fuck HoI2/DH for the inability to improve tech-teams other than hard-coding new ones and adding them via decisions/events), which never go above level 4 throughout the WW2 period and only small handful of them get to like lvl 5 or 6 in the 50s.
Speaking of which (yes, I know this is a HoI3 thread), did the project to create a stencil for decision improving your tech teams for FODD was ever made, or it fell apart? Because that could single-handly unfuck DH research due to shitty tech teams.
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>>434178
>Mechanized infantry is not worth developing, period
Any basis for that?
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>>434282
Also, Nat '33 China has an easy mode. You've got two border clashes events, one in '34 and one in '35. If you played your cards right and caught up all the commies during the Long March, the '35 event is the best way to caught Japan completely fucking unprepared for the war with you, with majority of their infantry being still model '26, the '36 not being researched yet, variety of units nto spawned yet and so on and forth. Sure, you have that fucking annoying -50% IC debuff during wartime until January '36, but it's still well worth it to goad Japanese into earlier war. You won't be able to fully prepare for the '37 Marco Polo, not to mention Japan will be unlikely to attack you at all in scenario where you unified China by '35 mark. Those border clashes however put the entire initiative in your hands, so despite it's Japan declaring war on you, it's your decision for them to start said war. And in '35 and especially in '34 they aren't prepared at all to fight any wars whatsoever, while Manchuria is a complete pushoever at that point. I just had a playthrough where I got Fading Sun event on 5th January '36. This left me the master of all China and with puppeted Korea showering me with blueprints, Japan completely knocked out of any sort of danger and in perfect position to back-stab Soviets to reclaim all the Chinese clay back once WW2 starts.
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>>434289
>HoI1
It's a late game gimmick unit, waste of time, effort and production, completely ignorable shit, you are better off just using light tanks for that job
>HoI2/DH
Tough research, expensive units, show up VERY late for the show, takes forever to produce, virtually no granulity for units (you will spend entire war using the most basic model) and compared with motorized (which show up in '36/'35), they are barely better in raw stats, while way fucking slower and having worse terrain performance
You are unlikely to have a tech team to research it at all, not to mention having IC to build them in any quantity at all, not to mention meaningful quantity. Motorized scale better, cavalry in DH scales better, while mechanized only exist to cock-block your research for air cavalry, the ultimate mobile unit you can get. The sheer fucking speed of motorized (22 and higher) vs. the tank-paced mechanized should alone tell you what to pick in DH.
>HoI3
Everything as listed above, plus requiring bunch of cross-field researches to make them viable (while motorized uses your infantry weapons). Slow as all fuck and given the amount of research they need, you might just build medium tanks instead (they use almost all of the same tech), which are significantly stronger than mechanized, while costing the same and being relatively easier to research. Also, mechanized are fucking fuel hogs, so not only you need a lot of gas to keep them running (HoI3 requires to refine oil into fuel first), so enjoy using them in some Soviet wilderness where they will be bogged down by mud, lack of fuel and terrible terrain penalties. They are simply shit-tier and only 3 countries can actually afford building them, while only one can build them without giving up in other, more vital fields.
>1/2
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>>434305
>HoI4
You need the '44 model to make them useful at all, which is not only late for the show (you won't produce them until late '43 in the most optimistic scenario), but simple economics of scale means you are better off building motorized. So what they are weaker, if they are faster and, more importantly, for each mechanized vehicle, you can produce 4 trucks and do so from the game start, rather than spending time and effort to research more. In fact, mechanized are so expensive, you might as well produce final tier medium tank for the exact same price and twice the firepower, not to mention being actual tank. Combine those with the massive stockpile of trucks you have and you have fantastic mobile units, rather than shit-tier mechanized. Post MtG, due to fuel making a return, mechanized are shit-tier fuel hogs. Also, ironically by researching mechanized, you make them even less competitive against motorized, since first tier of mechanized offers you a hardness bonus to your motorized, making them far more stronger.

So all in all, waste of time and effort. You are always better off using your industry and research for more vital and useful things.
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>>434306
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but MtG introduced motorized artillery, which only required to have motorized researched. Meaning you can just build 7-1 and 14-2 Inf-Art divisions, but using speedy and cheap trucks, while there is no motorized artillery - and you would probably have to use SP models anyway to make that work.
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>>434312
*7-2 and 14-4
Been a while since I've touched 4
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Great thread, I'm so glad to see people talking about HoI3 and the high iq discussion herein.
I've still never been able to defend as France though, I might give it a go since i'm inspired by this thread.
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I also just love dabbing on better navies in this game. The naval combat is 10000% more satisfying that HoI4
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>>409065
General question to hoi3 players, in a modern remake of DH which mechanics of hoi3 would like to see ported over ? Or which aspects of hoi3 do you think work best ?
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>>434317
If you like naval action then go as an unaligned USA, use "prepare for war" event to lower neutrality and declare war on anyone and everyone you can.You will have some massive battles, fighting against every other navy on Earth.
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>>434315
Use rivers and build forts around them, while keeping your front as short as possible. That's literally it.
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>>434323
Supply
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>>434323
Things from HoI3 that I'd like in DH2?
The scale of the map. I'm a sucker for this shit.
No fucking tech teams
Leadership gained like in that one mod, where schooling technologies provide with direct leadership value, rather than % modifier of your base
The entire logistical system, along with fuel
National unity (the HoI3 version of it) & strategic warfare
Naval unit components (the HoI3 version of it), along with naval combat itself (fuck you, HoI2 carriers-that-work-like-every-other-ship-but-having-gun-range-of-300-km-and-dealing-air-damage)

Things from HoI3 that I don't want to see in DH2
Intelligence system
Upgrade system (no ability to directly upgrade to most recent tech, can only upgrade step-by-step, fuck that shit)
Government cohension bullshitry
Doctrinal research (it's really fucking awful, even with mods)
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>>434317
What? You don't enjoy your "just build fastest possible ships imaginable, bro" naval combat from HoI4?
That shit was so bad, along with the ridiculous rework on airforce making naval bombers virtually useless, I just pretend seas don't exist and you can only play landforces
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>>434405
It only got worse with MtG. The only good thing about HoI4 naval combat is the ability to gain superiority by simply having ships, not even doing sorties with them, so I can larp as Kriegsmarine sending it's heavy cruisers to fight against convoys by not actually sending them and just basing them in norway to fuck Allies up. Shame it doesn't translate into anything in particular, but I enjoy the fact I can do that anyway
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>>434398
>Upgrade system (no ability to directly upgrade to most recent tech, can only upgrade step-by-step, fuck that shit)
You can do that in a roundabout way in HOI3, by re-training your brigade. This is however a subpar option, as it simply sends the unit to the production queque and removes it from the field, which unless you are at peace and have more than 2 tiers to close-in in tech is a retarded idea. Not to mention not all units can re-train to other.
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>>434383
>>434398
Thanks. In terms of scale, how do you feel about the lack of automatic frontline management in hoi3 ?
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>>434613
>draw arrow to objective
>watch the AI do everything for you
what kind of brainlet retard needs that bullshit anyways
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>>434613
You mean the HoI4 retardation?
Let me ask you this:
Why are you playing a global-scale war game, if you are relegating combat to AI?
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>>434306
>4 mechanized infantry + 4 mobile artirelly
>insane defense and good atk for very cheap manpower
>useless

Stop playing only as germany.
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>>434636
For that production and with zero research/single '36 tech, I can field four times as many mechanized divisions.
Starting from '36, too.
Also, remind me - why should I build MOBILE unit and then use it for DEFENSE?
That goes without mentioning the obvious fact how Germany is one of the few countries that can afford doing that shit at all
Have you thought out your post at all? Or is this the generic "HoI4 enjoyer" sperging out, because turns out you don't need and even shouldn't be researching some high-end stuff? No wonder you faggots are filtered so hard by earlier entries to the series.
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>>434646
*as many motorized

But I like the most in it all the fact the only complain you have is about 4. Not 1, not 2, not DH nor 3. And mechanized are far more "defendable" in their viability in those games than it is in 4.
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>>434629
this lmao
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>>434636
Adding to what the other anon already said:
A single factory can produce 1.8 trucks a day. 5 factories thus produce exactly 9 trucks a day and 15, the maximum amount in a sigle queque, gives you 27 trucks a day.
It takes 2 factories to produce a single halftruck a day. In fact, tier I is so inefficient, it takes 1.(8) factories, but you have to spend a full amount, so you are wasting factories. At 5 factories, you are making 2.85 halftrucks, and at 15, you are making 8,4375 halftrucks per day.
You need twice as much fuel for halftracks, too.
This means you can get either 9 trucks/day OR a 2.85 mechanized/day. Not a single country starts with technology to build mechanized, meaning that by the time you have them researched at all, you then need to get your factories into full swing, which means in total some SERIOUS time - by which the production of regular trucks is looooooong at full pace.
On top of that, due to the way how units and equipment are handled in HOI4, you need to directly replace each and every mechanized "unit" you ever produced each time you tech-up - where in previous games it was just a matter of simple upgrade of pre-existing unit, rather than producing again and again equipment for it.
So what the hell you plan to even argue here? Mechanized are, as always, a terrible choice. And due to how upgrades work in HOI4, they are thrice (or rather four-times due to the actual math) as expensive when you plan to upgrade them (which you should, since both tier I and II are subpar units anyway). There is not a single situation where going for mechanized is justified or sensible, it's pretty much a gimmick unit, equal to those amphibious toys added in one of the DLCs
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>>434683
Tell us about jet fighters and nukes.
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Don't care about your min-max autism. I build and will keep building Panzergrenadiers because it's historical and their icons/artwork across all HoI games look cool and aesthetic as fuck.
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>>435012
>HoI1
Gimmick, the game is usually over before you actually get to either research
>HoI2
If we mean Turbojet Fighters, then the war is usually over (well, the phase of it where the enemy can send bombers in your direction is over) by that time
Unless you have a tech team for nukes and a solid one, simply forget about them. That goes without mentioning IC needed to build reactors and secure location that can't be bombed
>DH
Turbojet airplanes are bread and butter of the game by late war and you absolutely want those tasty fucker. The rocket interceptors are complete fucking gimmick, thou.
Nukes are far more potent, despite even worse research to get there. But at least more countries can try and if you plan to play into the late 40s and early 50s, then nukes are basically "fuck you" weapon once you have MRBMs. Very good at knocking out US/Germany if you have to face them in particularly nasty scenario
>HoI3
You are better off never researching jet and rocket interceptors, waste of time, difficulty and lenghty research at that.
Nukes are nice, especially if you have access to uraniu and heavy water to speed shit up. And they are far more tactical now, since the provinces represent county-level affairs, rather than half the state
>HoI4
If you are using anything beyond '40 airplanes of any kind, something very, very fucking wrong is going on. And even if you do use '44 models, then jet versions are just unreliable gimmick without any actual advantage you can't achieve with the regular model and some air exp.
Never developed nuclear weapons in this, so genuinely can't tell
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>>435034
... panzergrenadiers ARE min-max, you dingus
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Upgrading my ISTs to HArm.
Never really found a use for ISTs to be honest. I'd love for them to be good, but HArm is just better from my experiences.
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>>435105
Play as Japan, go against China.
You will instantly understand their role. The reason why you aren't "feeling" them as any other country is that neither you play as a weak-ass country with barely enough IC to field tanks nor you are facing a backwater army in low-infra backwater country, that only has huge manpower going for itself.
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>>435105
Forgot I already posted that. Been a while since I played this save. Anyway, I don't want any breakouts in the southern cauldron so I'll be pulling some of my troops from the northern front once I take Hennef (the armor province being attacked).
Hopefully the Italians AI doesn't shit the bed and they go help out the Czechs. That would be helpful and I could just take most of eastern Germany then.
>>435107
I hardly consider continental Europe and Germany backwater. You are right that France has no IC, but, I tried it out as GB too to minimal effect.
Secondly, armor is absolutely awful in China anywhere that isn't the Shandong peninsula and the northern plains.
More than half of the country is hills, mountains and jungles.
I could stack 2x Art and 2x Inf for minimal manpower usage and just blow them away with soft since the Chinese have no hardness in their division comps.
For the IC I sink into IST I could also very easily get Tac Bombers that translate into firepower and strength damage anywhere else without worrying about supply. (Dailan, Shanghai, Formosa, Guangzhou as bases)
They let me convoy raid, supplement my fleet, aid my axis allies in Barbarossa, etc.

Sell me more on them statwise vs. HArm?
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>>435115
The Luftwaffe is sloooowly whittling my air force down and I don't want to waste IC on repairs. Fortunately, most of their southern airforce is hemmed into München. I'll do some runway cratering so they're stuck repairing constantly and won't be an issue for now.
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>>435115
The point of deploying ISTs in China is that the Chinese have absolutely nothing to fight those with. Of course your counter-argument about extra bombers (or more artillery) is very much spot-on, but if you don't use airforce, those few tanks are still good for the sole fact how nothing can scratch them. There are better ways to spend your IC, but that doesn't make the situational application any less viable.
So I was doing more of a devil's advocate for ISTs than anything else here.
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>>435119
I wasn't trying to be standoffish or a dick to be clear.
Just have a genuine discussion on the merits of ISTs. I do believe they should be a viable alternative to HArm for hardness to Inf divisions as you said (even versus minors, and potentially majors). Hearing others thoughts might give me ideas on how I might be using them improperly, or if they are truly subpar, ways to make them viable in edits.
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>>435127
The problem with ISTs is that they aren't really good as unit, both in-game and irl. Their main goal is to deliver you support tanks (duh) and doing so cheaply. So what we are looking at isn't some sort of all-time great brigade, but an early war support unit that simply gets obsolete as war goes on. The main merit of sticking to them vs. going for HArm is that they have less severe terrain penalties and are obviously cheaper to make by default.
To put this into some sort of perspective, ISTs are your AT guns. Useful, but there is no way to make them out-perform TDs. And they shouldn't be even trying to achieve that.
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>>435127
Also, generally speaking, there are two questions you need to always ask yourself when evaluating any sort of support in HoI3:
1) Can CAS/Tac do that
2) Is CAS/Tac cheaper for that job
If the answer for both of those is "yes", then you are better off with another airwing build
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>>435118
A breakout that's happening, I don't really have enough troops to do this properly. I've pulled all bombers for ground attacks 24/7. Moved two tac bombers that were idle in my colonies just to clinch this.
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>>435199
The Germans are finally running out of supplies and I've managed to contain their early attempt with enough bomber support.
I love the air component of this game.
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>>435209
The south is taken care of.
Sending my beleaguered troops back to my cores to regain org and begin the next plan. Cut through Bohemia into Schlesien, separating their troops from their main supply depots and allowing the Czechs to escape out of Slovakia.
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>>435209
Does Cas and Tac make much of a difference in this version? In vanilla FtM HOI3 I find ground attack to be underwhelming, especially considering the IC and tech investments. Plus their fragility if not meticulously micromanaged.
I would use existing air wings, but I would rarely build anymore. If IC and LS were tight they would be the last thing I would bother upgrading.
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>>435235
CAS does a lot of hard attack (9 with my tech in '41), while TACs do more soft damage.
You'll need to have interceptors either doing intercepts if you don't have the coverage, or air superiority to bully the enemy into their airfields, and then bomb their runways so they can't repair.
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>>435236
>>435235
I didn't really answer your question. So yes, they do. I haven't played vanilla in years, but once you have full air control its basically free strength and org damage. You can shatter divisions if you just fight them and your troops have enough morale and hardness
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>>435235
Nice. But it is a long way to go. Are you sure you not going...

A PROVINCE TOO FAR????

*insert dramatic militaristic music*
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>>435239
Cheers. That sounds more realistic than vanilla. Certainly makes it worthwhile investing in air power in that case.

I once played the UK 1944 scenario in Vanilla where the Allies start with loads of air-power. Even with that immense air superiority, I found the effects to be lack luster.
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>>435234
Finally got my HArm divisions. I've been bombing one province non-stop for about a week now, the troops there about to shatter so I can push through easily.
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>>435235
Pretty much every single mod rebalanced airwings to be cheaper and thus more viable. CAS in BIce are like 6 IC a piece, while you absolutely must use those if you plan to fight a total war, or else you are fucked. Even in vanilla, with vanilla overpriced airplanes, it is still well worth building a half-decent airforce, since it's a power miltiplier. Of course not everyone can afford it, but even a token airforce, if micro-managed, can allow you to punch WAY above your weight.
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>>435250
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>>435235
I was capable of doing defense of Poland solely because I kept bombing German tanks with CAS
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>>435235
>>435624
What's important about this whole thing is the fact that sure, building AT would be cheaper, but apiece. A CAS airwing can be moved all over the front and be used where it is needed, rather than a guessing game where to deploy AT and then end up with too many of those or not enough where you need them. Meanwhile, CAS can simply fly over, bomb the attacking unit and that's it. No tanks? Switch to ground support and decrease their ORG.
Well worth the price
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>>435252
Looks like the beginning of the end for the Germans.
Berlin should be mine soon. Not sure how Germany should be handled. I think I'll take Saarland and deindustrialize the various states.
Japan is still a looming threat in the Pacific, but they haven't done anything to harm any western powers and I've lost quite a few men already.
Maybe I'll just let it be.
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>>436007
Why not just annex it?
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>>409065
Honestly this looks like the making of a good AAR. You should post this in the AAR section of the Paradox HOI3 forums.

You will get more interest than this board. Honestly this place is fucked. Most of the threads aren't strategy games. There is even a draw thread for Pete's sake. The Jannies have a bizarre idea of what a strategy game discussion is supposed to be.
>>
>platy HPP as France
>organize defense and decent air force
>Germany never annexes Czechia and Italy never joins Axis and WWII never happens unless I declare war on Germany in 1944 (after years of political turmoil).
Kind of lame, HPP is too unpredictable for me.
>>
>>437489
Wasn't UK hardcoded to attack in late '42?





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