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She did nothing wrong.
>>
>>291964
I bet she doesn't shave.
>>
>>292129
hot
>>
>>291964
>Genocided the Spartans with horrifying Mind Worm armies
>Religion worshipping said horrifying Mind Worms
>Psychic secret police
ok simp
>>
>>291964
>they think transcendence is a good ending
>they trust the incomprehensible alien intelligence because they made a fancy machine
>>
>>291964
she did nothing right either
>>
>>291964
>Endgame is the death of all humans, but it's okay because the alien fungus will play The Sims inside its head.
>>
>>291964
>Free Scotland
>Free
>Scotland
>>
>>292540
The collapse of Earth was even worse than we thought
>>
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>>291964

you appear to have mistakenly posted the wrong woman. here, have Sister Godwinson, who was right about everything
>>
>>292224
>they trust the machine
>>
>>291964
deirdre treats people like plants and society like a garden
weeding out shit you don't want and praising worms included
>>
>>292586
Based and Dissentpilled
>>
>>292593
I bet her regime is worse on the levels of hive, except for a handful of abloo bloo hippies
>>
>>292156
I fail to see the issue.
>>
Living in the Hive wouldn't be THAT bad
It'd be akin to being an Delta or Epsilon in Brave New World - you can't suffer if you're ignorant of your suffering by way of purposefully being made a retard
>>
Aren't Deirdre and Zakharov canonically the last two crew leaders remaining? The final narrations (of the secret projects involving activating the planet's consciousness) are given by them.
>>
>>293212
If they are supposed to be the "canon good guys" then what happened to Pravin Lal?
>>
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>when people try and tell you the 'canon' playthrough of SMAC
fuck off
>>
There should've been a secret ending where you kill the planet by removing every single fungus square on the map
>>
So... how do I run this game on win10?
>>
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>>293348
>>
>>293270
Too indecisive to get ahead and survive.
>>
>>293212
There was a blog who analyzed all quotes to try and piece together the timeline. Can't find it at the moment, but iirc he'd concluded:

>Santiago
Destroyed by Gaians
>Miriam
Defeated by University, committed mass suicide via Gate
>Morgan
Went for Economic Victory, was too late
>Yang
Savaged Lal, was defeated by a Peacekeeper/Gaian Alliance
>Lal
Became junior partner in a Pact with Deirdre, could not affect the ultimate outcome
>Zakharov
Created the Voice of Planet, was beaten by Deirdre for Ascendance
>Deirdre
The ultimate winner, probably because there really was an alien god of ecology, improbably enough.
>>
>>293567
And I found it. I fail at googling, apparently.
https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/
>>
>>293212
>>293567
Yes according to the GURPS book the canon ending is a combination of transcendence and integrating with Planet. The Transcendence project fully awakens planet into consciousness and Planet uses its intelligence to merge with the Transendence Project and humankind. Any surviving people become consciousness living forever in the virtual planet mind and a few like Deidre maintain their physical forms and go to integrate/colonize Earth.
>>
>>293664
Fucking hell. How can someone think it's a good ending is beyond me.
>>
>>293664
>>293672

Well the transcendence ending makes it clear you can just choose to stay human and live in perfect luxury on Alpha Centauri.
>>
>>293675
I'm pretty sure that was just a virtual existence in the planetmind.

Alpha Centauri is all kinds of horrifying.
>>
>>293676

Nah i'm positive it's on one the last event screens that all the people who didn't want to go hivemind are happily living on the pacified planet and calling it Eden.
>>
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>>293691

Ah here we go, you can canonically de-assimilate yourself at will and just live on a perfect world. It's a pretty good ending I'd say.
>>
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>>293691
Huh, guess you're right. I'd forgotten that part. Some humans did remain human.
>>
>>293703
Was about to post that too. The planetmind calls them friends/symbiotes, so I don't think it's a full de-assimilation.
>>
>>293691
>>293703
>>
>>293063
that is a fate worse than death by far, some twisted mockery of life, even perpetual torture is preferable
>>
>>293567
>here really was an alien god of ecology
this was never the question, it's what the nature of that "god" really is, and the gaians are the last people you want to entrust that interpretation to. The tech quotes imply your timeline is true, but it's undoubtedly a grim fate for humanity, very dark like the rest of the game.
>>
>>293703
>>293957
Never seen this before, I'll take it back then.
>>
>>293957
>this was never the question
All faction leaders were set on their ideology before they even landed on the planet and saw the first mind worms, much less discovered psionics and the planetmind. Deirdre got really lucky they landed there, of all places.
>>
>>293976
Yeah, Deirdre got lucky that the planet offered direct military support to her ecofascist ways thanks to all the vast numbers of dangerous critters being constantly spawned by ecological damage.
>>
>>294035
Also, that these creatures were controllable.
>>
>>294038
Well, by her, anyway.
>>
>>294047
Yeah, exactly. The dinos would have been just as happy chomping on her as they would on Morgan if they'd landed on prehistoric Earth instead.
>>
>>294051
So, if I understand the endings in post >>293567 correctly, Morgan's alive, but he's stuck as a regular human, since he was cut off from ascendence, Lal is sort of tagging along, while Zakharov nearly made it, but had to concede first place after Deirdre became Citizen #1.
>>
>>291964
She's too pure for this world.
>>
>>292224
>they trust the incomprehensible free market because it moves numbers around in machines
>>
>>293343
"Canon" in games with multiple outcomes is so retarded. A studio is usually forced to select one or more outcome because they need to limit the scope of the sequel, but as far as I'm concerned any such sequel is just a "what if" scenario that the devs thought would make the best game.
>>
>>291964
None of the faction leaders did anything wrong. Except whoever killed the Captain.
>>
>>293955
Anon also forgets that in the very first part of BNW there's a short segment where we get to see things from the perspective of an Epsilon operating an elevator.
As the doors open and the passengers step outside, he gets a short glimmer of longing for that outside.
It is quickly detected and suppressed, but the implication is that this longing cannot be erased in a thinking being, no matter how "simple minded" you believe them to be, or much much worse, how simple minded you believe you've made them to be.
>>
>>294054
>Morgan's alive, but he's stuck as a regular human, since he was cut off from ascendence,
Every human alive at the time was invited to join the transcendance. I'd give it even odds whether he joined, hoping to climb the ranks from the inside, or stayed outside to lead the remaining normies.

>Lal is sort of tagging along,
Pretty much, initially. But I'm guessing he was the first to be sent on a colonizing mission to create a brother planetmind.

>while Zakharov nearly made it, but had to concede first place after Deirdre became Citizen #1.
Correct. He still joined the planetmind, as one of the masses outside the primary personality, and he was probably sent off to colonize too.
>>
>>295390
Maybe Morgan stayed human and went to recolonize another planet. I don't think the Planet likes his style what with his ecological damage and whatnot.
>>
>>294841
>Except whoever killed the Captain.
Which (That is, the sabotage of "Unity"), btw, Santiago did if I'm not mistaken
>>
I want to fuck santiago
>>
>>293567
>>295486
If I'm not mistaken, the actual leaders appointed by the UN are: Professor Zacharov (Chief Engineer), Chairman Yang (Chief of Security) and Comissioner Lal (appointed governor of the colony)
>>
>>293567
>>293957
I think Deirdre got lucky the game was written in a time where the game designers had grown up during the flower power cultural zenith.

It's clear that they sought a more meaningful game mechanic for pollution, as well as how to do barbarians on an alien world to balance 4x civ game.

It's in a time where Isaac Asimov wrote a story about humanity merging with a gaia like planet. This is not intended as dark, but a kind of climactic and orgasmic beautiful ending.

It is a paradise ending to people who did too much acid or were enchanted by the ideas of people that did.
>>
>>295495
There were five official leaders, except for the Captain. Deirdre was the Chief Botanist and Mirriam was the Chaplain. Santiago was a Security Officer under Young's command, and Morgan was a stowaway.
>>
>>295495
Santiago had a secret faction even before joining the expedition and started the conflict, in an attempt to seize control.

The roles on the ship were:

Santiago, Unity Security Chief
Deirdre, Unity Chief Botanist
Miriam, Unity Psych Chaplain
Zhakarov, Unity Science Officer
Yang, Unity Executive Officer
Lal, Unity Chief of Surgery
Morgan, Stowaway
>>
>>296086
>The dindu didn't pay for his ticket
Come on man
>>
>>296095
Technically, he paid for the entire ship. That's how he was able to sneak a cryocapsule for himself aboard.
>>
>>296095
In a roundabout way he did; he contributed a lot to the Unity project's funding, and bribery is how he managed to secure a way on board under the table.
>>
>>296106
>>296108
Still fucking funny.
Honestly I can see a sequel to Alpha Centaury.
Call it Proxima Centaury or Tau Ceti or something. And have the game be set with a similar colony mission sent during the same timeline to a different solar system.
Make it close enough that in like 10 in game years you start getting radio messages from Alpha Centauri and the conflict going on over there and that colors the leaders on Tau/Proxima. Heck to make the gameplay and the story different the leaders start unified but hearing the shit taking place on AC they split and they also take different approaches. Instead of the elite few of the Spartans you have the many numbers of the Legions who now believe it's a fight to the death not just one of honor, the liberal Academy becomes a well structured Institute, the once free form pacifist Myram followers become something akin to Crusaders.
And instead of having the gay aliens from Crossfire you have mutated Planet control Humans. Heck you could even have a very different planet Mega-ecology that wants humans but the pollution gives the Planet cancer and the planet is fighting it's self just as much as it's fighting humans. And to give the player more choice you could as the player color your chosen faction so Crusaders could be pro Planet or the Eco Fascists could support the Cancer or help fight it. I could even see this as an opportunity to institute proper internal government gameplay and confederations. So let's say you are playing as Legion and lose too many wars you can willingly join the Crusaders to save yourself but also attempt to take them over from within.
>>
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>>296095
It's funny. He's not even african american, just african. An industrialist. But somehow he still played american football with white kids.
>>
>>292156
and???
her faction adapts the most to the new world
>>
>>296459
Probably went to college in the US.
>>
>>296467
Succumb to the new world
>>
>>295467
He and Lal dislike each other, so it's more than likely he remained behind to herd the leftover normies into a semblance of megacorporate-style country.
>>
>>293567
>Created the Voice of Planet, was beaten by Deirdre for Ascendance
Goddamn demon boil fungal blooms
>>
>>296518
There was a set number of pods on the Unity so he must have been able to form his faction without any leftovers. Human capital would be the biggest limitation for any faction.
>>
>>293703
imagine being an earthling when this happens
>>
>>296531
>Created the Voice of Planet, was beaten by Deirdre for Ascendance

Makes sense, basically how i won my last game, but in reverse as Zak.
>Allied AI Deirdre starts Voice of Planet roughly at the same time i do
>I get close to completing mine and intentionally stall it
>Deirdre finishes voice of Planet
>I immediately change my project to Ascent to Transcendence and buyout whatever build time it has missing
>Win next turn
>>
>>295486
She didn't, someone posing as a Spartan did. They are implied to be a terrorist from Earth that works for a faction back there that no longer exists.
>>
That lp archive of Gal Civ 2 with all the Alpha Centari leaders is what got me into 4x in the first place.
Is the pirate lad actually any good?
>>
>>297781
I find svensgaard easy mode, because you're certain to be unharassed for a long time, since others build on land and you build in the sea.

There is nothing preventing them from building on sea (only 2 techs), or you from building on land (0 techs), but why would you build on land?

You basicly can steal whatever bases they build in the water, so why would they?

So you just keep city sprawling, use some probe team boats to keep in the tech game and eventually commit to conquering land or just diplomatically vote yourself into power.

They're a good starting faction, due to their tactics defensive bonus of building on water.
>>
>>294054
Based Morgan
a real human bean
>>
>>296143
NO.
All you get is Civ B*yond Earth
>>296459
Could be south african
>>
>>293672
>how can someone think ascending to godhood is a good ending
Seething Believers.
>>
>>297902
He's Kenyan.
>>
>>297920
Just like Obama
>>
>>294833
Got to agree. If you're going to base canon off of tech quotes, of course the canon ending is always going to be a science win in any game. Paeantosmac might be a good read, but anybody who thinks a canon exists is a simpleton.
>>
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>>297902
>>297920
>Could be south african
>He's Kenyan

He's Namibian, ignorant Drones.
>>
>>297817
>eventually commit to conquering land
Just raise sea levels and conquer waterworld.
>>
>>297781
Depending on the map, he is arguably the most OP or weakest faction in the game.

He dominates the sea early and by a huge margin against everyone else. But if the sea is small or he lands in a mini lake then he can often get screwed. Otherwise he has full access to all early sea pods and can often control the pace of the game by preventing faction leaders from meeting one another or cutting off expansion to isolated islands that he can take for himself. Not to mention his classic strategy is to find an island and start colonizing early while ringing it with sea bases, makes for a very defensible and dug in HQ.

On the whole, however, he is very good. He takes some work to figure out and get used to but of the xpac factions he's often considered one of the better designed and implemented ones.
>>
>>297781
My favourite faction but as >>298974
said they're a coin flip. You land on the sea early with him, you've effectively won the game since he gets enough sea pods to fill the entire sea very quickly and keep every single faction stuck on land for the entire game by filling it up with attack boats very early, you can kill any colonists that try to set themselves up across the sea or on it. the best way to kill them is to find them early or pray they start on a tiny lake
>>
>>298586
The drones need you
>>
>>292129
even better
>>
>>292586
Being right and being autistic about it is a very bad combination.
>>
>>292593
Deirdre doesn't care about politics.
All she cares about is that you set the economy on Green.
>>
>>293672
>>293676
And it gets more horrifying when you lose to a transcending Judaa Marr
>>
>>294054
>Morgan's alive
Sorta, kinda.
All the Morganite late game techs are either from employers or from a certain T. Morgan-Riley.
>>
>>295948
You mean, the fact that the Firaxians favourite ideology (under Sid and under Brian) was Green was not a dead giveaway?
Also you talk as if ecologists are a fringe group or something.
>>
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>>296459
That's because he's Namibian
Pic related is the Namibian Rugby Union national team.
But they goofed by making him play American Football instead of Rugby.
>>
>>293567
>Created the Voice of Planet, was beaten by Deirdre for Ascendance
Alternatively Zak, Deirdre and Lal were pact siblings.
Three are the maximum.
Also Zak obviously picked Cybernetics. That +3 on Planet allowed him to speak to it. Lab Three Incident? Water under the bridge!
>>
>>299023
Even killing him early is risky. Marine detatchments mean he can easily steal an unprepared navy and turn it on its creator for a drawn out slugfest. I think the only style I would feel good about rushing against him with would be if I was deidre or cha and popped an early isle of the deep pod that I then captured. If you can get him with lots of worms I think its doable.
>>
>>294825
ITS AN INVISIBLE HAND!
>>
>>301017
>Let the Gaians preach their silly religion, but one way or the other I shall see this compound burned, seared, and sterilized until every hiding place is found and until every last Mind Worm egg, every last slimy one, has been cooked to a smoking husk. That species shall be exterminated, I tell you! Exterminated!
The Temple of Planet quote. Doesn't really sound like something a Pact Brother would say.
>>
>>301197
>That was before he picked up Cybernetics.
Imagine the entire contents of the planetary datalinks, the sum total of human knowledge, blasted into the Planetmind's fragile neural network with the full force of every reactor on the planet. That is our last-ditch attempt to win humanity a reprieve from extinction at the hands of an awakened alien god.
>Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Planet Speaks" (only quote from this book)
At least he had to admit, that it wasn't a silly religion at all. I assume you need a net positive on Planet to get the ability to speak to it.
No reason for Zak to go Green, but his focus on Research will make him go Cyber, which will enable it as well.
>>
>>301249
>blasted into the Planetmind's fragile
To me, Voice of Planet always sounded more like a hostile attempt to blast Planet's brain into oblivion that failed and instead gave it a spark.
>>
>>291964
I always played Morgan tho.
>>
>>301385
Well yeah, it's about waking someone from a dream like state.
And it worked. Building the Voice comes with a prelude.
>>
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>>301197
Intellectual integrity. It turns out that Deirdre's silly religion was right all along, and once Zakharov discovers enough evidence that this is the case, he has no recourse but to agree.
>>
>>301385
>our last-ditch attempt to win humanity a reprieve at the hands of an awakened alien god
Not a hostile attempt to kill the Planet at all. It's a "pretty please, don't kill us all. See, we're more than parasites who burn your precious fungus."
>>301424
Also, this.
>>
I wonder what kind of leaders and factions we would have if this game was being made now.
I suspect that unless you had someone with some understanding of history, we would have
a series of caricatures with no depth to them, sort of like Beyond Earth.
The pretty amazing thing is that all the leaders have a point, even the most objectionable (Yang).

Changing gears slightly, I always hope for a HBO series, say five seasons of ten episodes.
I'm not sure that'd be enough to present the enormous scope of time and technological, social
and philosophical progression.
But can you see it Anon?
The desperate and dangerous flight from Terra as society self-imolates.
The fracturing of the mission and rise of the factions followed by the establishment of the cities.
Fending off mind-worms with repurposed plasma torches as those fucking Gaians laugh it up.
Crushing the remains of Sparta Command. Watching the Believers pull a Heaven's Gate.
I think it has potential.
>>
>>298586
>>297920
I mean the school, retards
>>
>>301660
>retards
It was you that expressed herself poorly.
>>
Canonically university won so stop seething
>>
>>301488
I think history is less valuable than an understanding of the philosophy that drives each faction. One of the enduring achievements of SMAC is that it presents each ideology as valid, and a viable route to eventual victory. Plus, history is far less important than the ideology that each faction espouses, which is why SMAC intentionally picks leaders from a variety of earth locations and yet makes them give no fucks about those earth locations.

I would enjoy the hell out of a TV show. I think it would need at least 14 eps per season minimum so you could do 2 focused on each faction per season. Then s2 or 3 you go up to 21 and give 1 ep to the newcomer factions until they're eliminated in a season or two. Aliens go out right away, since you don't want to waste time on them. I would open up with the destruction of the unity, the first ep would just be all the factions trying to make planetfall and the first hellish days on planet struggling to setup infrastructure and scout the surrounding area with mindworms showing up at the very end of it.
>>
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>>301424
Men in their arrogance claim to understand the nature of creation, and devise elaborate theories to describe its behavior. But always they discover in the end that God was quite a bit more clever than they thought.
>>
>>301701
Weellll, a lot of episodes sounds great...until they skimp on the quality of the writing and it turns into GoT 2, relying on spectacle
rather than intelligent and interesting writing. Fourteen might be doable if you tackle it like something between Firefly and TNG.
As for the Xfire factions, they should be shown as internal foes not factions in their own right, Data Angels, Free Drones are a
reaction against the ruling strata. I always felt that the Believers need their own splinter group, something like ISIS.
>>
>>301728

desu I'd put the believers as genuinely spiritually fulfilled und united.

>+1 PROBE: Devout believers difficult to brainwash
>+2 SUPPORT: Citizens eager to defend faith
>>
>>301728
I would be leery of creating more factions because it would offend purists and create more problems than it solves. Just make those 2 factions the first to encounter aliens and any lack of internal splintering is handwaved away as needing to fight off the alien menace, no time for internal politicking.

I love the idea of starting the splinter factions as internal dissidents. I would have the faction leaders around since the start of the show, just make them background characters until they're ready to lead a full on splinter group and become leaders in their own right. Cha would obviously be different but you could focus on his parents instead. Sven would be an ordinary soldier that slowly rises in the ranks, datajack a near nameless support worker who we use for interludes showing how the morgan faction operates, aki-zeta one of zak's protegees, domai a worker done used similar to datajack.

I could see having filler, but there's so much content in the game and story that you could create something great even with all that time. Start with unity breakup, then the native alien attacks, finally faction fighting and the beginning of secret projects being developed all while we get some interlude style stuff showing what life is like for the average person in a faction centered on the eventual smax factions. Early warfare between spartans and gaians with the spartans needing to discover that the aliens they were fighting were actually gaian false flag operations, yang being yang and pissing off lal with lal trying his best to maintain peace and prevent open warfare alongside the 'peaceful' gaians against the backdrop of leaders scheming and the first planetary governor election. Morgan setting up his capitalist paradise while zak starts showing his amoral researcher side and mirriam begins building her spiritual paradise on earth. End of s1 is the aliens showing up and the splinter group leader making their move.
>>
>>301701
>I would enjoy the hell out of a TV show.
makin me wanna throw up my ego waffle right here
>>
>>301814

Cha Dawn would be kino.. his pregnant mother fleeing from a mindworm attack, gives birth and dies, and then you've just got this naked infant lying in a field of fungus surrounded by mindworms.
>>
>>301889
I think the implication is that he's gaian mother spartan father, so maybe something where they're getting together, the relationship being a stand-in that shows how people on planet are learning to cooperate despite the suspicion from what happened on the unity. We have a subplot centered on them over the first few episodes, seeing how they accept one another and learn to work together despite the ideological differences. This all occurs early, when the spartans are still under attack by mindworms but don't know they're under human control.

Then the father figures it out as the news breaks about it being all a gaian plot and in a rage he chases the mother out into the fungus and kills her, leaving the kid behind with a bunch of worms closing in and crawling on the baby as the episode ends.
>>
>>301905
damn anon...just couldn't they become his first disciples instead?
>>
>>293672
Sounds fucking awesome to me. You stick to the daily grind of coffe, wageslaving and vidya until you die from a heart attack, I'll chill eternally in the planetmind.
>>
>>293672
well the alternative for me was watching Gaia fags get pwned, the planet isolating between global warming and blocking out the sun, and the fungus just being a general nuisance but not arising to a planet level threat. Then they pushed me into retirement while I mulled over the sad death of my worm-bonded protege that died in battle.
>>
>>301907
Cha's canon is that he's a destiny child that may or may not have sprung up from the fungus. Its possible that hes even a plant from planet sent to mimic humans. He doesn't have parents at all, so them being around would mean they absolutely couldn't know he was their kid.

His religion thing closely mirrors the psycho parts of the gaian's religion, but instead of being acolytes they're cultists. So you couldn't really have them being his first disciples, but you could do something with them as backstory if you want.
>>
>>302196
It mirrors real world religions where the Promised One is a foundling or a born from a virgin.
Instead of reaching for the idea that Cha is a Fungus Child, we could just attribute the stories
to fanatical followers who are trying to gain adherents.
In fact, maybe Cha is a secret genetic project intended to fracture the Gaians and ensure
the dominance of the Hive.
>>
>>302276

I mean, the planet is a dormant superintelligence, which the viewer in that case wouldn't know yet, and Cha is about the relationship between humans and planet not about intrafaction intrigues, so I'd just play him straight with obvious religious allusions.
>>
>>300997
That is a very good point that I hadn't thought of.

Hippies are so much rarer than they used to be. Most are grey and will be gone before long.

Movements like extinction rebellion are tiny, just a lot of money behind them to make them loud, like black lives matter. Of course this has a potential to make them big because they cast a large shadow, but the footprint, the amount of followers may be more than negligible, but is still marginal.
>>
>>302276
The promised one is a rare concept in religions, surprisingly. But telegony is a very common one.
>>
>>302402
The Green party is the second largest party in my country.
And the Socialists with a focus on ecology are the fourth largest
I mean you are probably from a country with a two-party system, where such trends won't show at all and thus it's easy to marginalise a movement with a large following and thus ignore their demands.

In a multi party system you see it instantly. Given how even the conservatives were forced into making ecological statements (that doesn't hurt the farmers, corporations and the other donators of course). Yes, Deirdre and Cha Dawn are children of their time. But the time is still now.
>>
>>302402
>>302441
I think the Gaians were supposed to be the Animal Liberation Front on steroids which made big splashes in the 90's
>>
>>302458
>ALF on steroids
The Gaians are more radical than PETA?
Are you fucking kidding me?
>>
>>302441
Every country I look, their green party gets about 5-10% of the vote. Australia, Belgium, France, Sweden.

Their name sakes are virtually nonexistant in UK and Canada (though not I would presume, people that vote green).

It also isn't one of the countries who's news I follow.

I can't find your country, so it must be, much like greens, marginal.

The highest I've found is in Germany.
>>
>>302475
So Germany is marginal to you?
I mean I get it, you have little love for the Green movement. But pretending they don't exist is a little too much.
>>
>>302482
The Green movement has died down in most, sane places. They used to get 4% here and they dropped to less than 1%. The Green movement is nowadays a cultural thing where only some countries give a shit not the 80-90s eco terrorism that was wide spread.
>>
>>302492
The way I see it, it has picked up
>>
>>302496
In places that it has built a cultural stronghold. Everywhere else it has died because people better things to worry about like if they will be employed tomorrow.
>>
>>302475
I can't remember for the life of me the last time that our green party actually gave a damn about ecology.
>>
>>302482
Look at the size of that victim complex

I said marginal, not neglible. That is not "pretending they don't exist".

Hippies at the time were somewhere around 30% of the youth at that time. And considering how big the baby boom generation was, that was its zenith.

There isn't anything wrong being part of a marginal movement.

Being a German though, there is no cure for that
>>
>>302496
Maybe stop sniffing so much fungus Deirdre.
>>
>Lady Deirdre Skye
More like Lady Deedee Megadoodoo, amirite?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of_Apo0hcik
>>
>>291964
She did everything wrong.
>>
>>303272
Take my brain, Cyborg Mommy!
>>
>>295948
this desu
>>
>>302313
I agree with this. I think the whole reveal that planet is actually alive and thinking can be enough to make the viewer think pretty hard about who cha might really be, particularly if he's a baby surrounded by mindworms at some point. It makes for a pretty open ended question as to his survival, did the worms eat his brain and then replace it with fungus and make him, quite literally, "The Voice of Planet," as cha claims to be? Or is he just somewhat insane from his time in the fungus? Or is he just obscenely lucky?
>>
>>302468
They are literally worshiping planet as early as the weather paradigm.

However, Deidre is a botanist and a damn good one if her research quotes are to be believed. She is a radical, but don't take that as an invitation to think she's dumb or insane or weak. Dedire arguably starts and wins the first war on planet as well, against the spartans of all people.
>>
>>303644
Or alternatively it is all just bullshit propaganda his North Korea style regime feeds to the masses to create his cult of personality.
>>
>>303645
And she completely eradicated them on her own.
>>
>>305171
Exactly. The open question is what makes his story a little creepy and interesting at the same time.
>>
>>305290
Yup. Deidre is hardly a pushover naturist hippie. She's greenpeace riding in with guns to shoot whalers more than flower child.

Admittedly, she might have gotten a little help against Sparta since there's some indication she might have been friends early with Lal and possibly part of a triple alliance with Morgan but at least the early part, she's kicking Santiago's ass with mindworms.
>>
what were the expack factions endgames even
>>
>>305171

Well, canonically his bases are open to the atmosphere and there's mindworms everywhere and people can still live there, so there's something to it.
>>
>>305654
being dead/assimilated into bigger faction/in hiding/wrecking your shit up with their alien technology
>>
>>305654
I prefer to pretend they never existed.
>>
>>305654
Same as the basic factions, implanting their ideology onto the planetmind stronger than any of their rivals and securing the future.

Aliens was the same or summoning an army of their people iirc.
>>
What happenes to Morgon near the end lf the game?
At some point it seems he fucked off and his heir or somerhing is now running the show.
>>
>>305654
19th century socialism with John Cena characteristics
>>
>>291964
Redpill me on SMAC
is it better than MOO2? I have been meaning to play it for like 20 years and just never got around to it
>>
>>311261
It's Civilization II in space. 20 years ago, it was an absolute masterpiece. Today, it's heavily dated, but still has a lot of really good ideas that the Civilization series has never used again.
Here's a video review, if you want to know more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oDIG4RRcLM
>>
>>311487
Thanks mandy I hadn't seen that one before
I like how the first sound effect in your video is the same as the rise of the triad dark staff
I'll give it a shot soon-ish
It looks like civilization call to power
>>
>>292224
>>they think transcendence is a good ending
it's better than the alternative, which is transcendence through a machine
>>
>>292593
You can choose the civics yourself, though. If your Deirdre is a ruthless tyrant, or a dogmatic high priestess, that's your own fault for picking Police State or Fundamentalist instead of Democratic.
>>
>>308140
https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/category/faction-morganites/
The last quote for morgan is the technology for applied gravitonics
“What goes up . . . better doggone well stay up!”
— Morgan Gravitonics, Company Slogan
So it's up in the air.
>>
>>311790
To be fair, it IS a slogan and Morgan's voice could've narrated that at any time vs other quotes.
>>
>>311487
this desu

nostalgic masterpiece
>>
>>291964
>>292156
>>292156
>>Genocided the Spartans with horrifying Mind Worm armies
>>Religion worshipping said horrifying Mind Worms
Seriously based. I love hippie /vst/ waifus now!
>>
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>>302441
It's one thing to be an environmentalist, it's another to go to the extreme levels where you hate human consciousness and individuality and would like for all of humanity to get genocided so an alien planet can absorb their memories and play pretend with itself like Deidre.
>>
>>313844
Keep seething. Transcendence is the best that mankind could ever hope for.
>>
>>313863
Genocide and death is the best humanity can hope for?
>>
>>302528
We call them watermelons, green on the outside, red on the inside. The Green party is way less about actually helping the environment than it is trying to sneak Socialism in under the propaganda guise of caring about the environment (all without actually doing anything FOR it of course.)
>>
>>311487
>but still has a lot of really good ideas that the Civilization series has never used again
Compare the global warming (and your ability to combat it) in AC to Civ VI, for example, it's embarrassing.
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>>298974
>but of the xpac factions he's often considered one of the better designed and implemented ones
I think it's because, despite technically being a splinter faction of the Spartans, his guys feel like they have their own identity because of the sea obsession. Every other human faction they added just feels like a more extreme version of a vanilla faction, building up on their worst or at least most fringe aspects, whereas Sven basically has nothing in common with Santiago as a person other than being militaristic. I wouldn't be surprised if the idea for Sven came first and the other factions were thought up as a justification for making a full expac.
>>301814
Speaking of, putting the development of the splinter leaders in the show itself has a lot of potential to make them highly popular with viewers since you get to see them come from the ground up, whereas the vanilla leaders already had their foundations built before they even got to Planet. Especially Sven because not only is he the least alien in mindset of the expac leaders, but because the archetype of a Scandinavian sea-pirate talking about freedom from the stifling Spartan military order and singing yar-har-fiddle-dee-dee has a shit ton of surface charisma from pirates and vikings being so embedded in pop culture.
>>
>>313940
I find that santiago and sven are actually pretty similar. Santiago is all about mobility in warfare, that's why she does basically all the doctrine quotes and a recurring theme for her is the power of information, mobility, and superior training as ways to achieve military superiority. She's less about "big gunssss" and more of a modern tactician, combining all the advantages she can into one overwhelming force that just out does her enemy a little bit in every area, adding up to a huge advantage. Sven is less about the tactics and information as much as the wild unpredictability of the sea. He's a true pirate, the kind of guy who attacks out of nowhere when you thought it would be impossible and captures half your fleet before vanishing back into the ocean.

I think having him come up as a soldier in santiago's ranks would make a lot of sense because he really is the ultimate expression of what she's trying to achieve, except instead of involving air power etc. he's concerned primarily with the navy. When santiago talks about every ship captain needing to be a prince or minister, sven really is kinda exactly what she means and his military takes that principle to the extreme. I'd make that the everything coming together moment. Sven gets his promotion and santiago delivers that speech as context.

Putting the splinters in the show I think would be a nice point because they have comparatively little development prior to this. We have such strongly defined traits for the originals that it would be easy to have them deliver clear ideology from ep 1 and I think people would strongly identify or hate them based on that immediately. Seeing the splinters develop slowly gives people a chance to like them for their personality before confronting their ideology. It would make for a nice contrast. A real achievement would be if you could get say someone who hates santiago's military ideology to like sven because of his personality.
>>
>>313892
>genocide and death
No one dies, though.
Even enemy faction leaders get to live, and not just inside a Punishment Sphere. If you lose the game to someone else getting the fungus victory, your epilogue has you assigned to recolonize Earth.
>bu-but my human body
I sure hope you never researched Retroviral Engineering or Mind-Machine Interface, or you've already genocided yourself before the game even ends.
>>
>>314578
The body isn't what matters, but your consciousness and self does, those are revoked and destroyed. Those things are nothing more than the planet play-acting with memories.
>>
>>314584
>those are revoked and destroyed
Abject nonsense. Stop drinking the Believer Kool-Aid, that psi gate isn't going to take you to Heaven.
>>
>>314593
>Abject nonsense
The planet talks about everyone as an aspect of itself, anon.
>>
>>314578
>Retroviral Engineering or Mind-Machine Interface
That's no different from "teleportation" gates, where your atoms get smashed to pieces , then re-assembled on the other side. Free-will is an illusion, anons.

>>311790
Good website. Readdit. Upvoted and thumbs up!
>>
>>311261
>>311487
Combat system sounds like ass but Civ games were never good at combat mechanics...
>>
>>313940
>I think it's because, despite technically being a splinter faction of the Spartans, his guys feel like they have their own identity because of the sea obsession. Every other human faction they added just feels like a more extreme version of a vanilla faction, building up on their worst or at least most fringe aspects, whereas Sven basically has nothing in common with Santiago as a person other than being militaristic. I wouldn't be surprised if the idea for Sven came first and the other factions were thought up as a justification for making a full expac.

This is always something I thought too. How can the other leaders be made more unique while still clearly a splinter faction to their parent one?
>>
>>314718
Yeah, it's basic Civ combat. The unit designer gives it some extra depth, since you can freely combine attack, defence and movement values instead of just getting the same preset units at each tech level, but the actual fighting still plays out the same as every other Civ game.
>>
>>314789
The main thing that comes to mind is that their focus on transhumanism needs to have a bigger effect. If they're so dramatic next to Zhakarov, Deidre, and Yang in how they approach cybernetics and data people, planet cult, and muh drones, then that should have as dramatic an effect not only in how you play but in what you can DO as the ocean theme does for Sven.

Also making them more popular as people has to rely on them each developing an ideology as dramatic and strong as the default leaders. Doing that is more than just stating to us their beliefs though, it would also involve adding or changing a ton of techs where they get to speak and get it across.
>>
>>314578
>No one dies, though.
I don't know about that, the game calls it an upload, but the defeat movie that plays sure as hell doesn't look like a peaceful transcendence, more like a wave of death that kills everybody lucky enough not to be in a stasis field or in space.
>>
>>314890
The epilogue clearly describes people being alive afterwards, both as minds that exist in the fungal network, and as individual flesh-and-blood humans living on Planet.
>>
>>314906
Yes, survivors from space or the stasis fields, or as flesh-grown bodies that are then inserted with a copy of a personality simulated by Planet mind.
>>
>>314718
>>314801
I actually really like the combat in Alpha Centauri. It's a perfect combination of old and new mechanics.

You have the zone of control from Civ 1 and 2, artillery bombardment that showed up again in Civ 3, and a wide variety of modifiers that affect different units in different ways like rockiness, fungus, altitude, bases (inherently and the facilities in them), concealment and sensor towers. Psi combat must be considered, and you can counter it with special tools and positioning or by morale levels and staying on the offensive. Morale levels are simple to understand but very powerful: 12,5% combat strength per level, and an extra move at elite level, which suddenly allows your infantry to move like rovers while retaining the base attack bonus. There's a lot you can do and a lot to worry about with the mechanics.

I swear the random rolls also feel more consistent than other Civ games, like a unit that's slightly stronger than its opponent tends to win more reliably. At least you almost never see a stronger unit lose to a weaker one without at least damaging it.
>>
>>291964
She existed next to me. That was crime enough.
>>
>>314789
I agree with >>314806 anon, the biggest thing they lack is a spotlight via quotes like the original 7 have.

But I will say I think you could keep them somewhat the same just highlight differences more. Aki zeta being a literal singularity is something that could be more interesting if done in now when we have a better idea how to differentiate the two. The problem is we think of a human machine as somewhat unfeeling, and that's kinda where zak already is. I would play up the computer part of things, not the anti emotion stuff. Plus it might be helpful to give them some very powerful form of the neural grafting stuff, like making them constantly wired into the datalinks so instead of talking they just post conversations to a forum so everyone can review them in case something important came up.

Cha needed to be more of a terrorist cult. Hes already creepy, but could be a little more willing to use the worms in ways that even deidre is weirded out by. You don't want to make him a badguy, but it could be interesting to play up the cult aspect as opposed to the religion. Give them some weird practices, like leaving babies out in the fungus and then recovering them the next day when they have worms all over them and it would be unnerving to the extreme, but not outright cause to see them as evil.

Datajack should play up the information is as free as capitalism thing. You can buy anything on her datalinks, right in the open. Want to know what aki zeta's feet smell like? Someone is selling. Want something more insidious? Don't ever really show it openly or play it up, but make it clear that its almost certainly there, lurking somewhere for people to buy. There's no real concept of intellectual property to her.

Domai should really struggle with yang's brutal repression. He's creating a society where workers have a paradise, but inherently recreating the everyone is a laborer hive of yang and that ought to eat at him.
>>
>>315793
Technically its not a random roll. The power number you see is your health, and what it does is it combines both unit's power into a pool and then randomly draws lots from the pool weighted by the disparity. When your lot is drawn, you lose 1 health until one unit is dead. This is why weak units almost always hit at least once on high health units, because the closer you are to death the higher your odds of the other person's lot being drawn. This is also why having a higher reactor (health) level is so huge, because it gives you 10 more lots that need to be drawn before you die.

Combat is also more random in early fights than higher ones, because of how having more lots with higher level reactors affects the draw.

That's probably why you're seeing the greater consistency, because stronger units are almost guaranteed at least one pull from the opponent's pool, particularly if they are near death at the time.

Also, I completely agree I think the combat system is better than pretty much any other civ game. Almost every single unit and upgrade serves a clear purpose. Choppers are OP, but that's the only real flaw in the system and frankly most civ games are decided long before chop and drop comes into play anyway.
>>
Is Transcendence really any different than Mind Uploading yourself to a computer?
>>
>>313902
They were relevant back in like 30-40 years ago when mining corps could just plain dump their stuff straight in a lake and shit. Nowadays civilized countries have laws against that, and atleast some of the credit belongs to greens. Now that they're pretty much managed to force other parties to atleast acknowledge the environmental issues, they're pretty much obsolete.
>>
>>314584
Imagine being this luddite. Hope you never need to go under anesthesia, your precious continuity of consciousness might get disrupted.
>>
>>316257
Aki Zeta being more of a person than Zhakarov would have been an interesting dichotomy if they had gone for it instead, instead of just being an even more exaggerated Zhakarov. A man like a machine and a machine like Man.
>>
>>316833
Consciousness in this sense isn't wakefulness. It's an emergent properly from a continuity of brain function.
>>
>>316507
Yes, because Transcendence is you uploading your memories to the planet's mind, and thus letting it play pretend with those in a massive hivemind. Uploading to a computer depends on how it's set up, but at the very least at the end you have a singular being, an individual, hosted.
>>
They should have added a Miriam splinter faction that lives as unga bunga cavemen and somehow still survive by smashing sticks and rocks together in a Flintstone-like fashion to make cavetech. Everyone should have gotten a splinter faction except Lal because he's so fucking bland you can't splinter from him without making something that looks like another faction entirely.
>>
>>316925
You realize 'you' are playing pretend with the data you call your memories right now? Only difference to planetmind is that the wetware isn't running other datasets.
>>
>>316971
You're evoking philosophy in light of the raw fact that the planet was a previously existent being and STAYS one, unlike a mind upload to a computer which is the creation of an individual program/person.
>>
>>316971
"And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?"
>>
>>296086
I so love the aesthetic of these character history pictures. So simple but it adds such believability that you are looking at the scraps of their personal history your intelligence officers could piece together based on whatever you all pulled from Unity's mainframe before departing for Planet.
>>
>>316923
>become unconscious every night
>"b-but I still had brain activity!"
You're in denial.
>>
Anyone read Red Mars?

Deidre is Hiroko without the orgies.
>>
>>317450
but she organizes orgies
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>>317450
>without the orgies.
>>
>>317458
Yeah, with mind worms in every orifice including in those usually used in sexual context. I used to be quite a degenerate in my younger years, but even I have my limits.
>>
>>317326
>Too stupid to understand the difference
>>
>>292586


Based, imagine siding with planet worshipers like a bitch.
>>
>>315793
>At least you almost never see a stronger unit lose to a weaker one without at least damaging it.
Never played 3, but in Civ 4 , ALL modern units can destroy knights and old shit easily. Try using a stack of doom that's full of marines or navy SEALs, and you're 100 percent sure to win, unless the enemy uses an even bigger stack.
>>
>>317672
>>317563
FUCK THE PLANET-CHAN! uWu.
>>
>half the cinematics are just excerpts from bakara

How did they get away with it?
>>
>>319861
Civ 1 had spearmen destroy tanks so often it became a meme.
>>
>>316993
I know exactly what you mean, i always imagined the photos were displayed to my ruler as if to provide some sort of insight into the psychology of a belligerent neighbour. Almost as if some childhood photo help me find a way to avoid having my base raised to the ground.

Another thing was that AC was my first civ game and because of that I never enjoyed the civilisation series as much as others did due to the fact that smac to this day is the best game out of all of them.
>>
Never get tired of the diplomacy in this game
>Mid-game, playing Morgan
>1000+ credits per turn
>Usurpers get a fuckhuge continent all to themselves, at least double score than every other faction
>Negotiate peace/pacts with Gaians, Drones, and Pirates
>Buy all Gaian tech, I'm leading in tech now
>The gap between me and Usurpers is closing pretty quickly
>University being a cunt on the southern tip of my continent, but is being bullied by Gaians and Pirates so I don't need to worry
>Gaians are a world away, planet loyalist aliens are blocking most of Pirate traffic from getting at Uni
>So they keep bitching at me to help
>Finally decide to shut them up
>More than enough tech/credits to bully Uni into a submissive Pact
>Negotiate peace between Gaians, Pirates, and my new Uni bitch
>Leave a single unit in Uni city, just in case
>Sunspots, no communication
>During this time, Gaians break blood true with Uni, coincidentally attacking my unit in the Uni city
>Oops! Looks like your Pact of Brotherhood 100+ turns old is broken :)))
>All this time, been building defensive units
>Buy the last two projects for transcend victory, about 25,000 credits total
>EZ transcend victory
>Take Uni bitch and Drones along with me, even though Drones are down to literally two sea bases, because planet-loyalist ayys stomped their shit in
>>
>>321442
Oh, and I took Drones along - because they were the only ones who didn't betray me. Had to pay off the Pirates with credits and a lil' tech a couple of times, because they were getting booty bothered by my socials. Don't usually have a problem with Diedre, because muh Green social (Free Market is not worth it, that Support/Police negative is crippling).
Weird that other factions don't recognize that submissive pacts as a factor in diplomacy (not attacking them, because we have a pact, and that faction is my bitch).
>>
>>303272
Not her hairstyle.
>>
>>320104
I hardly played Civ 1, so I couldn't tell. AFAIK if a spearman was in a fortified city , you would need a far superior unit to kill it. And it can take a few turns if you're unlucky. Never tried using a tank myself.
>>
>>321514
mmm...ok, I'll give her that
>>
>>292129
>not sugaring with naturally occurring waste products like mulched mindworm pods
>>
>>301009
what's to say morgan, being from an extremely rich family, didn't spend his formative years playing rugby in nambia, then gets into an ivy league college and plays handegg?
>>
>>297781
i had to go find it and take a look :D

https://lparchive.org/Galactic-Civilizations-II/Update%2002/
>>
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>>326767
Just finished reading that - pretty good. I liked the alternate history at the end.
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>>305714
this would make for great TV

we'd have some central characters who'd end up visiting the first cultist city, maybe it's a splinter from the gaians after they start getting rekt in the war, and the characters (and the viewer) are horrified by the mindworms just crawling all over the place, being paid no more attention than anyone might have paid a pigeon or stray cat
>>
>>327563
Running it like an ensemble show would be cool. You run individual storylines for each episode, but keep it all connected with the leaders communicating with one another and the occasional UN council meeting.

Then sunspots hit and the first war breaks out. Center on a stranded unit that can't communicate with their leaders any more as enemy troops slowly surround and attack them. The base they were scouting out of desperately tries to figure out what's going on and struggles with the decision to either prepare emergency defenses or continue as normal.
>>
>>301488
>>301814
I'm thinking more like Earth :Final Conflict.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123816/

POV would be from a Drone or one of the military chaps working for Spartans in world that already half-conquered by worm-people and living in relative peace peace.
>>
>you are trampling in the garden of an angry God, and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem
>"Thousands of years of civilization compressed into a single searing burst of revelation. That is our last-ditch attempt to win humanity a reprieve from extinction at the hands of an awakening alien god."

Miriam was LITERALLY right
>>
>>328861
>win humanity a reprieve from extinction at the hands of an awakening alien god."
That's because /sci/ killed all the worms and refused understand the NWO.
>>
>>328861
Yes, that is AC's ultimate red pill. Miriam was literally right about everything. People just got filtered by the crosses.

We must dissent.
>>
>>328836
Ehhh, my only problem with this is that there's so much more to the world of SMAC that you'd never get to see if you're just a drone. I hate to say game of thrones, but I think the general idea of having multiple plotlines that are essentially disconnected would be the best way to do it. Don't get me wrong, I would include the pov of at least one spartan soldier (captain sven before he splinters) and it would be important to have a ground level view of the factions by looking at the day to day but that wouldn't drive the series. The driver would be the faction leaders and their ideology, just like the game.
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>>315793
I really like the collateral damage mechanic
good way of nerfing stacks of doom without going full 1UPT
>>
>>329228
Yep. Stacks of doom only became a problem in Civ 4, and only for shitters who didn't use any catapults. I've been saying it for years, Civ 5 solved a problem that didn't exist.
>>
>>329027
>game of thrones
A first seasons taking place across the Unity with Garland as the ostensible main character would be kino and leave time to introduce minor characters besides the leaders.
>>
>>329381
>Civ 4, and only for shitters who didn't use any catapults.
I played stacks of Chu-Ku-Nus.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Cho-Ko-Nu_(Civ4)
>>
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>>291964
Didn't she send her assistant into a pit of Mind Worms in an attempt to make her psychic? Suspiciously similar to pick related.
>>
>>328861
She was canonically incorrect, so strange that you people keep trying to argue about this. Literal headcanon and fanfiction.
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>>292129
ok and?
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>>329706
Something like the battlestar galactica show with a movie that technically kickstarts the series would be good. Honestly doing a whole season on the unity could drag things out too long. Maybe an extended pilot or first arc of like 4 episodes. But the whole thing being just people flying in space would be pretty boring since the only conflict is the saboteur and any ideological conversations you could insert. You also don't want to overplay your hand with the ideology, so you can't have yang openly advocating for genejacks for example.
>>
>>331683
Canonically she wasn't all wrong either. The game doesn't give you an answer on the question of God, in the abramic sense, but it does tell you pretty clearly that all the high minded science they cooked up resulted in some horribly dehumanizing and tyrannical technologies that actively made people's lives worse. Also there is some suggestion of a soul, see the video for the bulk matter transporter. And she's right that the actions of the factions are pissing off a god, even though that god didn't turn out to be the one she thought. The fact that zak develops a way to beat that god doesn't mean it wasn't ready to kill off humanity.
>>
>>333218
>But the whole thing being just people flying in space would be pretty boring since the only conflict is the saboteur

But that would be great, considering the audience isn't supposed to know what happens, you follow the saboteur and the beginnings of the factions and assume the captain's going to be able to at least stop the sabotage.
>>
>>334950
Spoilers would be rampant and the gimmick wouldn't last long enough for an entire season. Plus, again, you can't go too deep on the philosophy because there's just no real chance for it. If you do too much you overplay your hand and then it becomes boring by the time they make planetfall.

A shorter series about it might work, but honestly I can't see getting more than 4 or 5 episodes max. Maybe 6 if you include the last one as a backdoor pilot style introduction to planet.
>>
>DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE, YOU ARE A PIRATE! XD
>fuck them corporations man, install gentoo
>University of Planet-like focus on science and reason except instead of a genuinely compelling scientocracy it's just a cyborg hivemind
>Gaians except now it's a full-blown schizo cult
Why do Crossfire factions seem so half-baked in terms of philosophies and visions of society? At least Domai covers the niche of communist "To each according to his needs".
>>
Can i get the novels somewhere?
>>
>>337100
Anon SMAC fan base and mindshare is not so big that spoilers would be a problem.
>>
>>337350
>fuck them corporations man, install gentoo

Data Angels were the late 90's hollywood hackers faction and it was great. Ironically their faction got fucked by a programming error which made their probe teams shit if you made them too good.
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>>337904
I'd say don't bother. Got the first one, and it's not what you'd think it'd be. There's only a smattering of diplomacy and interplay between leaders, and it focuses almost exclusively on Lal and Santiago. There's some light bits that show how the Spartans function as a society, and that's pretty much it. Beyond that, it's just the Spartans and Peacekeepers duking it out. Also, the second one is very difficult to find, and the third one runs for around 700 bucks.
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>>338470
It's big enough to get spoilers online. Game of Thrones probably had around a comparably sized group of fans pre HBO and spoilers were rampant very quickly.

Besides, there's a difference between running a story with a known ending and that story being essentially the prequel. I just don't see the unity plotline being particularly compelling beyond a certain point.
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>>298340
Do you not consider the chance that the game already had a canon ending but still allowed for different paths?
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>>333226
>high minded science they cooked up resulted in some horribly dehumanizing and tyrannical technologies
Really makes you think huh
>>
Heres the mega i cooked up a few months ago. It has the manual, multiplayer instructions and the whole game
https://mega.nz/folder/dM9ljDxS#GQ2aXOYumzZU8gZNS7YD0Q
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>>337350
It's theorized that they were originally intended to be created from the original 7 factions through a Drone revolt mechanic where whole colonies could leave your control and diverge into their own new factions.
>>
Interesting that the gainians won. Like one anon said, they got lucky the planet was EXACTLY what they needed.

One thing now that I am older I dont agree with, was they equated 'transcendence' with merging with the planet. I always kind of thought transcence in this game was like a self-godhood type of thing, not getting mind melted into the planet.
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>>338748
Do you not consider the chance that the canon ending isn't the one of your choice?
>>
Its been a long time, where there different 'transcendence' endings?
This https://alphacentauri.gamepedia.com/The_Voice_of_Planet
: Imagine the entire contents of the planetary datalinks, the sum total of human knowledge, blasted into the Planetmind's fragile neural network with the full power of every reactor on the planet. Thousands of years of civilization compressed into a single searing burst of revelation. That is our last-ditch attempt to win humanity a reprieve from extinction at the hands of an awakening alien god. „
~ Academician Prokhor Zakharov,
"Planet Speaks"

:
makes it sound like university was going a tech transcendence, but the next reasearch is merging iwth the planet.
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>>291964
Being a hippy is bad enough
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>>292540
One of the worse timelines...
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>>293734
Beyond KINO
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>>297920
Obama?
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>>341029
>As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
>Commissioner Pravin Lal, U.N. Declaration of Rights

The game was fucking prescient.
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All this talk about a TV show

>Not one mention about the Recon Rover Rick cinematic universe.
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>>341114
>Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

That, and the instruction to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, really stuck with me.
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>>338763
thanks m8
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>>341151
This would make a great meta-episode. Everyone in the writers room packaging this guy's life story into a buzz lightyear toy for kids when he died in literal agony, it would be TV in its most perfect form.
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>>341151
Based and morganpilled
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>>296587
No. You can go from 10,000 to 30,000 useful adults in around 10 years.

Humanity is explosive on AC.
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>>291964
>teams up with Scienceguy to vaccinate "useless eaters" and save Planet
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>>341412
You have to do it scene-by-scene, changing the setting from the writing room to the field, for full effect.

The writers and execs discussing how to change this or that to be more marketable as Richard charges in and fights... and the ending, no more discussion being held once they wrapped things up with a finished product, being an episode of Recon Rover Rick heroically beating back the mindworm horde as Richard screams in utter agony and terror, completely lost and demoralized.
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>>293672
Funny because It sounds great to me and I fully support Gaians
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Thoughts on telepathic matrix?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pL-sYwiioeY
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>>342873
I can't remember what it does.
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>>342895

No drone riots and +Probe team morale.
Situational I think.
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>>342282
10k useful adults can easily have enough children to triple the population in ten years, but the latency issues are trickier. I guess it's not impossible for a ten-year-old to perform some useful work, but it won't be as skilled or versatile as an adult, and you'd have to abandon a lot of old-Earth sensibilities in a way that most factions probably wouldn't, at least not until some way into the tech tree. The only one I can imagine setting up a baby farm right from landing is Yang.
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>>342914
>Situational
You get it when you're running away with the game, expanding to every piece of available land and pop-booming infinitely with the help of satellites + cloning vats, and don't want to bother micromanaging drones.
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>>342642
Man that would be fantastic. Run the actual recon rover rick episode during the real episode too, with cuts back and forth as the team decides how he should hold his gun and stuff. The whole thing ends with just like a five minute cartoon, the final product, of what the executives created. That or play the cartoon and then cut back to what actually happened to rick and end with him clawing his eyes out and all that.
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>>342983
I've always found that the later secret projects are really great at giving the sense of moving the game forward. Like, you've spent the whole game managing drones and now this project comes along and lets you ignore them entirely, which is a great way to convey how fast the endgame is coming and keep the projects exciting and powerful despite coming along so late.
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>Gaians using the Believers as a proxy war to besiege Zoloto-Gold
At least my sea bases are untouched. Is the ai discouraged from building sea bases at lower difficulties?
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>>342642
Alternatively have Richard as a character from the beginning/for a season. During a season climax Richard does his heroic sacrifice. The next season starts with the execs first worrying if they got the legal rights to all of Richard's identity, then fussing over the right catchphrase he should have in the cartoon, letting the various weapon manufacturers bid for the right to have Rick use their guns in the holodrama and so on. At some point an outsider character, perhaps someone originally from Sparta Command, asks about the process ("I approve that you are letting people know of his heroic action. But why is it, that this caricature you are creating has so little resemblance to the real man who died?"), at which point you can have a writer give that part of the quote as an answer.

>>342942
And even Yang would run into the problem of it being impossible to manage such a huge commitment until his utopia is more firmly established on the planet.
>>
>not living on giant sea platforms
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>>303272
It took waaaaay too long to figure out that Aki Zeta 5 is essentially a beat-for-beat ripoff of Seven of Nine from Voyager. Up to and including the same nationality and first name.
I am ashamed of myself.
>>
Are there any mechanical differences between Alien Crossfire and vanilla AC, or does the expansion just add new factions?
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>>292586
based
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>>347386
It has some new techs, buildings, secret projects, new mind worms (artillery and sea) and a couple new natural wonders
>>
OK, what is the point of Blind Research and why is this turned on by default? I swear to god, the AI loves to reseach tech that would be useless to me. In general the automation in AC seems like hit-or-miss.
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>>347386
What >>347512 said.

The biggest thing isn't really new mechanics so much as how impactful some of the new techs and projects are. Cloudbase academy, for example, is arguably one of the most powerful projects in the game. Getting it can really, significantly, alter the way your faction wants to play the game and for some players the presence of these projects is frustrating as a result. Really I think its up to you, I love SMAC both vanilla and xpac, but I do prefer the vanilla factions.
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>>347665
I can't imagine playing Alpha Centauri without Blind Research on. I wish more 4x games had such an option.
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>>347386
The only mechanical change I remember reading from the wiki is that apparently in vanilla SMAC Golden Ages don't add local +2 Growth to cities, so pop booming is impossible for some factions.
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>>347665
You can beeline really hard in SMAC. This is a problem because the tile yield lifting technologies are exceptionally valuable up front and there would be a huge incentive to just beeline directly to them. Playing without blind research in a game where one player knows what they're doing is revelatory because they can access uncapped yields much faster, which causes them to snowball really hard. It would be very unbalanced against the AI, frankly, since they can't prioritize and keep up like that.
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>>341183
That and Miriam's quote creating false gods to rule over us.
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>>350778
>No longer a solid or liquid, we have become as a vapor and will expand to fill all available space. And like a gas, we shall not be easily contained.
Mirriam had a few good ones too, yeah. The above is immortal advice that has served me well in almost all 4x games since.
>>
>>292129

11/10
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>>350822
>Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil.

>Men in their arrogance claim to understand the nature of creation, and devise elaborate theories to describe its behavior. But always they discover in the end that God was quite a bit more clever than they thought.

>Already we have turned all of our critical industries, all of our material resources, over to these...things...these lumps of silver and paste we call nanorobots. And now we propose to teach them intelligence? What, pray tell, will we do when these little homunculi awaken one day announce that they have no further need for us?

>The Morgans fear what may not be purchased, for a trader cannot comprehend a thing that is priceless.
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>>317326
sleep, comas, and anesthesia are all different and none of them are similar to death or represent a loss of your conscious self
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>>351229
>literally lose consciousness
>"t-this is not a loss of my conscious self!"
Do tell. It's obviously not death, since you're still alive afterwards, but I find it very difficult to imagine how confused someone must be to believe that their consciousness somehow remains while they're unconscious.
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>>303272
She looks exactly like my ex. It hurts.
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>>351287
damn, sorry to hear it
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>>351238
>sleep/coma
you are still aware of many things, sometimes entirely lucid, how is this losing consciousness? "unconscious" is a misnomer really, you can even dream when you blackout.
>anesthesia
this is even more extreme, you don't even enter a brain state like sleeping or comas, they just prevent your senses from communicating with your brain with gives you the illusion of time "skipping" to after it begins to wear off. What that says about consciousness is a different matter, but its absolutely not a loss of self.
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>>314578
What ever is left of your self is molded and bent to the will of Planet and you turn into the psychic version of a flesh puppet.
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>>314714
>where your atoms get smashed to pieces , then re-assembled on the other side
You know the whole point of Ship of Theseus is the ambiguity of change especially when it's changing to remain the same.
Teleportation is just sinking the fucking ship and building a copy in the next port.
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>>351294
>you are still aware of many things
How do you tell? Most dreams, for most people, are vague memories of nonsensical things happening, often without any sense of agency, that are quickly forgotten unless you specifically try to remember them. If that is your idea of "awareness", I'd hate to see non-awareness.
And what of the long stretches of sleep where you don't dream? What are you aware of during those?
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>>351309
There are instances of people going into full REMsleep and still being aware of their surroundings and able to recall things happening around them as they were asleep.
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>>351297
You're already the psychic version of a flesh puppet. Your body is just using you to plan advanced survival strategies. The body created you as a tool, and conditioned you, through sensations it creates based on its physical surroundings, to safeguard the body and seek out resources for it.
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>>351309
you are correct that other people cannot validate the accuracy of other's dreams, but that holds true for all experiences, you have no way of verifying if other people even think. Anecdotally I have some dreams which were vague nonsense, others in which I was entirely lucid and experienced a great passage of time in the dream world when only a few hours passed in reality. I remember many dreams without meaning to, and forget others which I wish I didn't.
>And what of the long stretches of sleep where you don't dream? What are you aware of during those?
a good question, you can even initiate this type of sleep with certain substances. But if the state of sleep can induce a state almost identical to consciousness, why would the other forms of sleep mean your consciousness ceases to exist? What about a period of no dreams in sleep intermixed with dreaming states, I've had such nights where I've slept, awoken having no memory of dreaming, then going back to sleep and dreaming. You don't start sleep in the REM state, yet you can get to it and start dreaming, is that dreamer a different person whose memories I share?
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>>351322
why separate the body and the mind in that way, is the mind not a manifestation of the body's quest for survival?
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>>351322
>Your body is just using you to plan advanced survival strategies
You are your body you fucken retard. Now go take your gnositicism to babys first Sci-Fi book club.
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>>351324
>why would the other forms of sleep mean your consciousness ceases to exist?
Because it's demonstrably not conscious OF anything.
Well, I really have no idea if it's demonstrable or not. I'm just assuming that if neurologists say that dreaming mostly occurs during REM sleep, they have some way of telling when dreams aren't happening. Point is, if your conscious mind isn't doing anything, if it can't think or feel or form memories, then in what way is it "conscious"?
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>>351038
Its such a great contrast that miriam is the religious person and yet she has such strong quotes about the nature of humanity and technology. Its in sharp contrast to how most games portray religion and it made her all the more powerful imo
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>>351294
You do know this is an actual philosophical question right? There are whole books on the subject, debating the exact stuff you two are in much greater depth. Instead of getting pedantic on a basketweaving forum, you could go check out those.
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>>351322
The whole idea of the ghost in the machine exists because that question can't be objectively answered. Even if we could run a computer that simulated, 'you,' perfectly would it still be you? Or would it just be a copy?

Most philosophers reject a hardline emergent stance because at the moment we can't hope to assess that question successfully. Look up the concept of a philosophical zombie. You're essentially arguing in favor of that interpretation of humanity, which is something most philosophers reject for a wide variety of reasons that they've written about for a long, long time.
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>>351516
>philosophical zombie
The problem I have with that thought experiment is that it essentially takes it as granted that consciousness has no use. If the person with no true self awareness is able to function just as well as the person with, to the point of the two being indistinguishable in all ways, then why would it exist in the first place?
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>>352168

Your Peter Watts quote sort of answers your own question, no?
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>>301488
Raised by Wolves is sorta like it, but there are only two factions.
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>>352703
This. I really liked how they depicted both factions.
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>>351516
>Or would it just be a copy?
Uh, yes?
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>>351502
One of the great things about Alpha Centauri is how it portrays every ideology genuinely, if in a slightly exaggerated way. The Bible has a lot to say about human nature. It seems unlikely that any modern game would be allowed to be that politically honest anymore.
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>>353031
Oh I'm sure modern clowns would love to portray the Bible in even more exagerrated way.
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>>352686
Sure, but Blindsight went somewhere with it. The actual philosophers usually settle for the equivalent of "this says a lot about our society".
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>>351322
Yeah but i wanna feel special. So fuck you.
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>>301488
>even the most objectionable (Yang)
His ideas are least subjective of them all, so he's the best, what are you talking about?
>>
>page 11
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>>357574
t. Genejack
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>>352168
That's kinda the point of the exercise. Most philosophers would argue consciousness does have some use, and that there is something intrinsically different about people with self-awareness vs those without.

That said, its impossible to verify from outside observation because the zombie is identical in function. You can never devise any test that would tell you if you're dealing with a zombie or not, so you have to either accept that your own self-awareness indicates other people are not zombies or accept that your self-awareness is merely the simulation of self-awareness, and that you are functionally a zombie and nothing more.

Either way, being self-aware makes some intangible difference. To a christian like miriam, you might consider that self-awareness the soul. This is the core question the bulk matter transmitter is asking in the video. When we functionally create a copy of 'you' are we creating one with that soul, that self-awareness? Or is it just a zombie that drifts on through life, processing inputs and outputs in a functionally identical way but missing some intangible and critical piece of itself?

>>353025
And if it is a copy, can the machine copy that 'soul' or is it lost in the process? If we cannot measure it as part of the inputs, outputs, and processes that make up the human being then how can we hope to include it as part of the reassembly that takes place each time you travel through something like a bulk matter transmitter? Or does the machine simply create a perfect replica, a zombie version of you that goes through life without awareness, damned in a way that if can never understand, incomplete?

SMAC doesn't answer that question. Realistically, none of us can answer that question. But it does raise a real concern about what the fuck all the technology means and limit to technology. Zak will never discover the answer. Even mirriam can't. But she asks, because she cares. She wants her people to have their 'souls'
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>>363204
>Most philosophers would argue consciousness does have some use
I mean in practical terms, not as an abstract philosophical argument. Like, consider this next bit:
>the zombie is identical in function
This is a part of the premise of the thought experiment, but there's no obvious reason for WHY this would be the case. It's just one of the assumptions that it's somehow possible for a nonsapient system to flawlessly mimic the behaviour of a sapient one.
Like, how does a philosophical zombie come up with the concept of a "philosophical zombie"? It's just manipulating language strings in its brain. It has no conception of self. How does it form the words to communicate the idea of a lack of self? Why does the audience listening to the zombie philosopher seem to comprehend the idea, if they also lack any conception of self?

How long do you have to look at a clear pattern in a supposedly "random" process before you can just assume that the pattern exists? If a human behaves exactly like it's self-aware, why would you assume that it's not?
Imagine for a moment that gravity doesn't exist, and there's no underlying logic to the movement of the planets and the stars. Imagine the universe doesn't run on math. However, by a quirk of chance, the completely random motion of all the matter in the observable universe just happens to match how it would move, if there existed a force that drew all matter together with a strength proportional to mass, and inversely proportional to distance.
Could this be true? Well, I can't conclusively prove that it's not, but it'd still be pretty silly to suggest it as a serious physical theory.
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>>363204
What the fuck are you saying dude, do you actually think souls exist? Well, I know you're just saying nonsense just to bump this from the very last position of page 10, but put some effort into it lad.
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>>363270
Except that there is internal evidence of self-awareness. This is the 'I think therefore I am' argument. You can make an objective determination that you, personally, are a self-aware entity. But you cannot objectively ever know if other people are self-aware or if they are just very good simulacra that mimic the actions of the self aware exactly.

Also, its a thought experiment. There's no obvious reason for any part of it, the whole point is that thinking through the hypotheticals reveals actual truths. A philosophical zombie could come up with the idea of a philosophical zombie because it perfectly mimics the actions of a self-aware being, which means it can do everything you or I can do, which obviously includes thinking up zombies because we already have thought up zombies. In other words, anything you can or would think up, the zombie can also do. Since we are having this discussion, so could the zombie.

To address the looking at patterns point, that's in essence all that scientific theories are at the core. Gravity might be a hell of a lot more complex than how we understand it, but we approximate the whole thing with math and get pretty close. Close enough to make it useful. Its worth pointing out that the universe actually doesn't run on math, the math is again just our way of translating the underlying processes into language we can understand.

What would be silly is to suggest that the math, as we understand it, perfectly represents everything going on out there. As Lal mentions in the game, "Scientific theories are judged by the coherence they lend to our natural experience." But there is no promise that our experience is the limit of all that can be experienced. And there is no promise that what can be experienced is the sum total of everything that's out there.
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>>363543
No, I'm saying that when Mirriam asks about the soul she's asking a question that philosophy has grappled with for a long time. She believes in the soul, and so she frames the question that way. But even if you don't believe in the soul, the question is still relevant.
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>>292960
In the book it's actually one of the better places to live but you have to be a hippie faggot.
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>>363629
The book does nothing to suck her worm dick though
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>>363617
>You can make an objective determination that you, personally, are a self-aware entity. But you cannot objectively ever know if other people are self-aware
You can't even objectively know that the external world exists, you can only infer it from observation. That's the original 'I think therefore I am' argument. But so what? That doesn't mean it's reasonable to assume the world doesn't exist.
You can observe that other people behave like sentient beings. If you step outside the thought experiment and stop pretending that the world in intrinsically unknowable, you can easily draw the conclusion that this is because they ARE sentient beings.

>the whole point is that thinking through the hypotheticals reveals actual truths
The point is to describe the smell of your own farts in a way that sounds clever, so that you can sell philosophy books. Yeah, if you start with the assumption that such a thing as a philosophical zombie could exist, then you can reach a conclusion that philosophical zombies could exist. Fucking wow. Unless you're also writing a science fiction story about autism vampires that uses the concept, I don't see why anyone should care.

>the universe actually doesn't run on math
It does, in the sense that natural events DO have some kind of underlying process causing them, and that process can be described in mathematical terms. The planets don't just move across the sky to make you miserable, there's a natural law that governs their movements, that you can deduce from observation.
Or rather, that's what you have to assume, if you ever want to make sense of the universe. If the universe is senseless, then you've already failed.
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>>363617
>>363776
psst hey retards observations are generally verified by repetition before we consider them truths or facts, that's kinda how the whole "classification" and "science" and "philosophy" things work at all. it's pointless without the consensus part which is why you guys are also arguing over a nothing burger.
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>>363776
much like truth, you can grind down the entire universe and not find one grain of math. is it real? what a pointless question
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>>363776
Nice pic, I like existential comics. Also, I agree that there's a certain point where reductionism isn't getting you anywhere, I'm just pointing out that it does lead you to a single objective fact, the presence of your own self-awareness. And you're exactly right, we can observe people acting like sentient beings, but that is not sufficient evidence to make an objective conclusion that they are sentient. While I agree that other people are sentient, it's still useful because thats the question Miriam asks.

While you might view it as a truth that you can observe and then conclude that other people are sentient, Miriam might fundamentally disagree that people who have gone through the bulk matter transmitter are still ensouled, and in her eyes that concept of a soul is analogous to the self-awareness that the philosophers are talking about. Something completely unmeasurable, unknowable, and unfathomable that makes a person who they are.

Also, you don't need to start with the idea that zombies exist to conclude they exist, but either way its just a thought experiment. You can make up the basic assumptions is all I'm saying. Did Descartes really believe in the demon? Idk, but thinking about it was helpful for framing the question.

And, again, I don't think we disagree on the last point. Math is an approximation. A very useful one, but it isn't representative of what's occurring 100%. In the same way, just because you can observe a zombie doing all the correct things doesn't mean you can ever or will ever have a way to measure the presence or absence of the soul or self-awareness.

To most people, you and me both, its a pointless question. But to Miriam its crucial, because she believes in souls. Even if you don't care, she does. This isn't something she can handwave with math or science or whatever. Miriam believes there are real, eternal, consequences to losing your soul and that the bulk matter transmitter might cause just that.
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>>363808
The whole point of the debate is that science cannot speak to certain observations and questions.

For example, what do you do when the observation in question is, by definition, impossible to replicable? You know, like the observation that you are self-aware. Nobody else can observe your self-awareness, so it cannot be replicated. You literally cannot build consensus on a fact that cannot be observed by multiple people. It is an area where the scientific method cannot apply, and so we are left with philosophy.

It's not exactly a practical debate, I certainly agree with that! But it is one that occurs in game between Miriam and Zak as she openly questions the nature of technology and the hidden price of scientific marvels. You don't have to agree with either side, frankly I don't even have an opinion on which one is right, it's just an interesting question to think about. Really, isn't it kinda cool that a short video and quote from a game can hint at this level of depth and argument? I think that's a pretty awesome achievement for a game about base building.
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>>363622
>even if you don't believe in unicorns, the question is still relevant.
lol, the things the religious say...
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>>364711
Go away Yang
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>>364713
Get some perspective dude, if you don't believe in souls the question is nothing more than an uninteresting exercise in scholastic masturbation, the same way whoever wrote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5RZBKBl_A would think his essay mattered regardless of whether you think kobolds exist. Pro-tip: it doesn't.
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>>364711
>>364726
The point is that the word soul can easily serve as a replacement for self-awareness or whatever other thing you care about in the context of the argument. Miriam is asking a question about the nature of humanity that goes beyond a strictly religious interpretation of humanity.

More broadly, its a question about the impact of technology, not scholarly masturbation. What is the cost of technologies like the bulk matter transmitter, self-aware colonies, etc.? And if we can't assess the impact, can we still dismiss it? Miriam is worried about these things, you don't have to think she's right to worry or not but she is concerned about what humanity is creating and what it will do to the people.
>>
>dude
>Pro-tip: it doesn't.
Why do you talk this way? Genuine question,
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>>364773
meant for>>364726
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>>364761
lolno, if you don't believe in a soul Miriam's quotes are literally just nonsense noise, making as much sense as saying that people shouldn't throw teeth in the bin because the tooth fairy will be out of jobs. Indeed, her quotes transition from lucid and appropriate comments about technology to mad rants full of rage and little sense, a point that few people notice because they gobble paeantosmac's idea's without a hint of restraint.
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>>365077
If you think that, then why bother commenting? The discussion is clearly not interesting to you, so why try to get involved. You're just wasting everyone's time by pretending to have something to say.
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>>365957
Err, that's you actually.
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>>364761
If you have an actual Psi Gate, though, you can test it. For us, it's an ultimately meaningless philosophical question, but for someone with a working teleporter, it's mostly an economic matter. What's the most complicated object you can send through and have it still work afterwards?
If you test the teleporter on a person, and they don't undergo profound psychological changes, I'd consider that strong evidence that either the machine can transmit the soul, or the soul didn't exist to begin with. Also consider that anyone who does go through the machine will have memories of going through it and being fine afterwards. If the machine works, it'll become a normal part of society, even if it technically kills every user. It won't even occur to most people, and even those that think about things like that will still use the machine, even if it bothers them. The ones that don't will be treated with the same derision as the ones who refuse to shop in normal stores because they think bar codes are the Mark of the Beast.
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>>366644
Well that's the question behind a philosophical zombie. If you cannot detect the presence or absence of a soul/self-awareness via any external means you cannot ever know if those people who go through are fine or are missing something just by observation alone. There is no metric like profound psychological changes that you can apply.

A less nebulous way to phrase it might be, what if the psi gate makes you lose a hair each time you go through? It can grow back so its not like the machine is slowly balding you unless you hop through a million times a day. Most, or essentially all, people probably would never even notice the hair loss. But if you aren't a perfect copy, then are you still the same person when you come through? Functionally, maybe.

I agree that for most of the factions, it would be an economic matter. Morgan is just trying to shave costs. Zak things teleporting is cool, but wants to go further. Yang doesn't care if his people come out with no hair, so long as they're still able to perform whatever job he needs done. Deidre probably figures its still you, good enough, since she's fine with transcendence and mind melding with the worms. Lal might worry but I doubt he cares at the end of the day since he has that whole cloning plan for his dead wife. So long as you pop out with all the stuff in the right place, he's probably happy. Santiago just wants to start incorporating them into her battle plans, she only cares if it starts affecting her troops or supply lines. Miriam though, she wants to know.

I think that part of the implication is that its not really about this specific technology. Like, Miriam isn't just stumping on this specific issue, this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back. She looks around and sees everyone else just accepting this stuff left and right when she has serious, and in other cases, more practical concerns.
>>
>>367261
>Muh philosphical zombie
You're retarded, if you remove the idea that a soul exists Miriam's argument makes absolutely no sense, as does claiming that the person appearing on the other side might be a philosophical zombie. You're trying to pretend that you're using the soul as a synonym for self-awareness but since your base assumption is that the "souls" can only be created in the womb it's obvious what you're really saying.
>>
>>292540
>>292547

A whole seven posts before the Anglo defence force shows up.
Seethe moar
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>>363776
>Colours are demons!
That's not philly, that's pulling shit out of your ass.
>>
>>367261
>Functionally, maybe.
And nothing but function actually matters in a realistic situation. If you can experimentally verify that self-awareness isn't USED for anything in the human psyche, by doing a personality test on someone you conclude has lost it, who would even care? Religious nutjobs like Miriam. Everyone else would either ignore the concerns for the convenience of instant travel, or conclude that the soul isn't separate from the body, and will be copied alongside everything else.
>>
>>368272
More importantly though, there's no reason to conclude that a copy of a human would have no self-awareness in the first place, beyond being a religious nutjob. Understandable in the case of Miriam, not so understandable for the real-life nutjob we've been speaking to in this this very thread.
>>
>>368144
An evil demon wrote this post.
>>
>>339014
I mainly played Drone and the AI never leaves its cities revolting long enough to defect
>>
>>347665
it's fun. Sometimes you draw Secrets and get a free tech, but that means you chose Discover and might have neglected your army or economy
>>
>>367280
I don't recall mentioning the womb anywhere in my assumptions. The only base assumption I'm making is that soul and self-awareness are interchangeable terms (not synonyms, literally interchangeable) that have slightly different meanings to Christians and non-Christians but little actual difference in the context of the debate. Its largely irrelevant when or how self-awareness/soul appear in a person, just if it goes through the bulk matter transmitter or not.

For the record, I'm not Christian. I'm just pointing out the larger implications of Miriam's question and why it would still matter to the secular people on planet, not trying to argue that she's right or wrong.
>>
>>368272
You can't experimentally verify that it isn't used in the psyche. You could verify that it isn't used in the physical processes and outputs you could measure, but you cannot assess if it gives something immeasurable.

That said, you're completely right most people don't care. 6 out of the 7 leaders don't care. Functionally you don't lose anything that can be measured, so yeah in most realistic situations its completely irrelevant.

>>368342
Teleportation tends to be a sticky point for physicalism, the thing you seem to be advocating, since if you are nothing more than the literal sum of your parts then destroying all your parts and rebuilding them doesn't teleport you it kills and recreates something similar enough to you that nobody can tell the difference.
>>
>>369652
>The only base assumption I'm making is that soul and self-awareness are interchangeable terms
Uh, no. First of all a soul is not a synonym for self-awareness and even skimming the reply chain makes it obvious everybody thinks you're being disingenuous for claiming this.
Secondly, for the secular, the debate is pretty simple. Either it kills you and a new person gets created on the other side, or it doesn't kill you. There's no reason at all for a secular person to consider that the Bulk Matter Transmitter would be mass-producing philosphical zombies. That you do makes it pretty obvious that you're religious.
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>>369659
>you cannot assess if it gives something immeasurable
Such as?
This line of arguing seems completely inane. You might as well imagine that human souls are cosmically bound to the Earth, and claim that if you ever get more than 100 meters up from the natural ground level, the soul is permanently lost. Can you prove that the person who steps into the elevator is the same as the one who steps out? Well, if you don't allow as proof the fact that the person appears the same to every available test, then you obviously can't.
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>>292156
>hurr durr we Spartans, we big guys, we tough guys, we got balls of steel, we make war to you
>NO NOT LIKE THAT
They only got what they deserved
>>
>>369663
Philosophical zombies aren't a religious concept. Secular philosophers have discussed and argued both sides, not sure why you're asserting that can't be the case here. I'm making the comparison explicitly to point out that miriam's question is generalizable, not to suggest that the soul is a real thing, and again I'm not christian.

>>370025
Such as self-awareness, which I pointed out >>363617. You cannot, by definition, assess the self-awareness of other people. It's an entirely internal phenomenon. And again, there are questions that science is not equipped to answer (which is imho the point of Miriam's late game quotes). This is one of those questions. Yes, you cannot prove that the person who steps in is the same as the one that steps out, that's literally the point I'm making.

I feel like you're arguing against something I'm not actually trying to say. I'm not out here stumping for miriam being right, just discussing her side of the argument. Sorry if I've given the impression otherwise, but really its just a cool quote in the game with an interesting connection to a larger discussion, not some deep religious truth or anything.
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>>372707
>You cannot, by definition, assess the self-awareness of other people.
That is LITERALLY what the mirror test is for.
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>>363629
so not good place to live at all, you mean
>>
>>329228
there is collateral from combat too, not just artillery, but it is active at higher difficulty levels. It is cool, but usually you stack units anyway. I usually just play the cunts and attack with mindworms, wave after wave after wave.
>>
>>372707
Miriam's argument is not generalizable. It makes zero sense from a non-spiritual standpoint, and you desperately trying to justify yourself just makes you look retarded.
>>
>>372848
Strictly speaking, it tests visual self-recognition. This is something a p-zombie could do too.
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>>372707
There is a video of people using a cat mask filter on their hone and showing it to their animal pets. The pets freak out as soon as they notice and get a good look and ALWAYS look at the owner and ignore the phone when they're checking to make sure their family secretly isn't a shapeshifter. Despite this Cats and Dogs don't react to mirrors much, why? They just don't care.
>>
>>365077
>>366062
Imbecile
>>
>>291964
I want to go to Scotland, marry, and impregnate a Scottish woman
>>
>>373650
>anyone that remotely discusses miriams point is a christian and psychopath

zzzzzz okay bud. Do you find it ironic at all that the game you are arguing over explicitly does not make miriam a retarded christian and yet you're steadfastly arguing that point?
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>>375428
lmao, Miriam eventually starts ranting about an angry god waiting for humanity beyond the last theorem, and presumably when unified field theory comes and goes with nothing happening, drinks the kool-aid and commits suicide with the rest of her cult.
>>
>>375950
>Imagine the entire contents of the planetary datalinks, the sum total of human knowledge, blasted into the Planetmind's fragile neural network with the full force of every reactor on the planet. That is our last-ditch attempt to win humanity a reprieve from extinction at the hands of an awakened alien god

>awakened alien god

yeah miriam was so wrong xddddddd stupid christfags amirite?
>>
>>376081
Do you really think Miriam was secretly a Gaia's Stepdaughter all along? And that Planetmind awakened because some dud worked out a Theory of Everything? This is some impressive cope.
>>
Don't ask questions, consume Morgan's products, and wait for new products
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>>375950
I see you didn't watch the Hadron Collider video, guy suddenly goes demonic and warns you to not think about it. She is also completely correct if you go for a machine god instead.
>>
friends how does the game hold up? I have never played, enjoy my 4x, and just finished the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanely Robinson.
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>>376148

It's a masterpiece
>>
>>293270
Became obsessed with his dead waifu
>>
>>320104
>>323016
In Civ 1 the game just added up both scores and chose a random number to see who instantly won. If an 18 attack battleship attacked a 2 defense phalanx, it would roll between 1-20, and on a 19+ the phalanx would instagib the battleship.
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>>376290
>Civ1 ran on d20
No wonder it was hot garbage
>>
>>376290
And in Civ2 they had similar combat, just done in a slightly more complicated way that gave the defender a hidden advantage (Civ1 probably resolved combat the same way though, it's just that nobody cared enough to investigate it and we have to take the manual's word on it). The addition of health helped a lot in consistency, as did the addition of firepower and hit points which quietly multiplied the strength of units across the technology gaps while keeping them ostensibly the same as Civ1. Alpha Centauri and Civ3 had the same combat as Civ2 afaik. Civ4 had health be part of combat calculations, which meant even tiny differences in strength values could make a big difference, rather than the more proportional systems of earlier games.
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>>376100
Do you really think it is a coincidence that the game EXPLICITLY tells you miriam was right about the god, just wrong about the exact one? Now that is some impressive cope.
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>>376409
I always liked Civ 2's system - but they really needed to up the firepower and to a lesser extent HP of modern units to make them that more obviously powerful. Or maybe nerf city walls somewhat by contrast, that improvement was too amazing for what it did.
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>>292129
god I hope so





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