>You're not the boss of me!But you can be the boss of the latest Koei thread! It's all here, from Dynasty Warriors to Horse racing. War in Europe to war between VHS manufacturers in 80s Japan. Any questions, comments or advice pertaining to Koei's vast strategy catalogue lies within this very thread. Join us! The great Khan demands it!
>>1593177>war between VHS manufacturers in 80s JapanWhat game?
Honest question, but how are Koei doing right now as a company? Their game output, especially for strategy, seems kind of small compared to what it used to be.
>>1593194Top Management serieshttps://www.mobygames.com/game/170536/top-management/
>>1593194Leading Companyhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_Company
>>1593177hey guys sorry to crash your thread but uh... is this game any good?
>>1593194Some videohttps://youtu.be/8vjzJRHqh0s?si=rhrxUrmV9Pmt6qJv
>>1593234No idea. I don't live in Turkey.
>ROTK 8 remakeHoly shit, my favorite entry too. Hope they don't dick it up somehow.
Ey, apparently the update for Awakening that fixes the AI diplomacy is out. Several new clan policies out also. Probably gonna pick the game up again.
>>1593276I just want my Amago restoration fictional events back. My least favorite part about Koei games is how every subsequent title just tosses out like half the content of the previous entry (which I guess kind of makes sense since it ensures that newcomers to a particular series will buy specific titles just to see what's in that game and that game only).
are there other games like ROTK which combines strategy, tactics, and roleplay? Like games where you can be a general or a lower officer and are able to navigate politically instead of always being resigned to the role of omniscient ruler?
>>1593589CK is the obvious choice.
Is 13 any good? It's currently on sale and I'm interested in giving it a shot.
>>1593589VII, VIII, X and XIII are exactly that. VIII is also getting a Remake soon so might wait for that.>>1593613It honestly is kinda meh but 60% off for the PUK bundle is the right price for the game imo
>>1593705>It honestly is kinda mehHow does it compare to 10, 8, and 7?>is the right price for the gameI tried to buy the other games first but the fan translation is messy enough that I decided to get a refund. Honestly prefer just bootting up a emulator, PUK be damned.
>>1593515Fictional events are always fun. I like the event system in ROTK 14, but the lack of alt history events is kind of disappointing.
Which is correct?Infantry > Archers > Cavalry > InfantryInfantry > Cavalry > Archers > InfantryPikes > Spears > Cavalry > Pikes
>>1593802>How does it compare to 10, 8, and 7?XIII's some specific roleplaying elements that require you to be of specific roles, like buying/selling weapons is only available to a Merchant, or Dueling is only available to a Warrior, you can't even interact with facilities if you're a Free Officer, which makes for a rather monotonous experience imo. The Event Editor is kinda nice though, if a bit too restrictive and cumbersome to do actual editting stuff.
>>1594235That sounds problematic. Still, do have to admit I find the idea kind of interested. How hard is to level up your character to become good in everything?
So, where the link to the PC version of NA:Iron Triangle PUK? Tried the torrent found at Igg-games but it doesn't work at all.
>>1594318Want to know that as well. Also torrents for DW 7-12 since I'm not paying for a game without official English support.
>>1593856In the actual game or what it should be?
>>1594318How does it not work? Did you download it and installed kucing's english patch?Or does it not run at all?
>>1594390YesHope in RoTK8R they don't bother with the unit triangle
>The only Rotk game not localized is the best one in the series.Even XI pales in comparison to how amazing this game is.>You can simultanously improve the domestics of every single city with just one action.>Battle Formations makes each officer unique, useful and doesn't rely on having the highest War/Int stat to win like with most Rotk games. It also makes the Wu officers actually being good at naval battles just like in history.>Can choose and deploy officers and their troops from any available city, a game mechanic that NA:Rise to Power would later use.That this game was close to being released overseas only to get canceled is a shame.
>>1594632Apparently it's well liked in Japan. Too bad Koei isn't remaking this one.
I can't get a successful Sanada game going on Awakening. Anyone had any luck with it?
>>1594632>You can simultanously improve the domestics of every single city with just one action.>Can choose and deploy officers and their troops from any available city, a game mechanic that NA:Rise to Power would later useThe fuck?Why was that not a thing in newer games.
Mabye a stupid question. But does anybody know the math to decide if a officer joins you or not in Rotk 14? I ask because I've noticed it's way easier to detain and then recruit.
>>1593203Pretty good actually
>>1593203Ignoring the fact most of their titles peak during the PS2/XBOX days, they've been doing pretty good>still churning out games regularly>develop multiple 3rd party games for well known companies like Nintendo, Square Enix, Atlus, Bandai Namco and even fucking EA>still bother to make actual new IP instead of endlessly rehashing their cashcow IPs like they used to>Aside from DOA and Ninja Gaiden, they still try to keep their flagship titles alive as best as they could (and DOA and Ninja Gaiden weren't originally Koei's IP anyway)
>>1594318>Igg-gamesEnjoy your malware. Check cs rin ru for safe sources.
>>1593203Pretty well, all things considered. The greater KT umbrella's still going strong since its various subsidaries' properties all have dedicated niche fanbases. Omega Force is still pumping out Musous, ShibuKou's Koei is still pumping out history and management sims, Ruby Party's still pumping out otomege, Team Ninja's still pumping out character action games, Gust is still pumping out Ateliers. It'd be nice if their respective divisions' development philosophies weren't so harebrained, but what can you do? KT only really risks going under once the grognards who have been playing their games since at least the 90's finally die out.
For me it's Aerobiz:https://youtu.be/Vg7a1OZwLlY?si=hmBsb2rahgdZUSOk
New update is out. Besides the new clan policies (listed below, thanks to steam user MuTaTeDtReE), there was also tweaks to existing ones, tweaks to conservator traits (I think the golden ones' maluses were reduced), council members reappointed as part of Discretionary Power policy, and the so waited AI diplo fix.New policies:Way of the Amago - Increase castle abilities in countries where all castles are governed/increase unit attack+defense depending how many Titles ownedWay of the Miyoshi - When kin is castle lord, castle abilities increased/if a kin is regent, that province's castles abilities increasesWay of the Nanbu - Longer agitation cooldown for your enemyWay of the Ryuuzouji - Attack increases depending on how many castles your targeted enemy clan has the agitated statusWay of the Saitou - Treasure buying discount/When treasures are out of stock, there will be new ones available to buy next month/increases commerce for countries with all settlements seizedWay of the Namioka - Unit marching speed increased.
>>1593203>>1595557>>1595623Really seems like they're stumbling with Musou games, and NA/Rot3K. The latest titles haven't been well received
>>1596590The AI Diplo didn't do shit, played like 50 years and the endgame loved exactly the same, one huge clan controls their region and no alliances seem to exist
>>1596721you have to turn it on in the settings
>>1596766What the actual fuck
>>1596685>MusouIs weird insofar that both DW and SW have faceplanted while games like Hyrule Warriors and Three hopes have done very well.>NA/Rot3KHonestly, I like 14 despite it's flaws but going back does make me realize how many features have been cut and how much the modern games are missing despite being overpriced.
>>1596590>unique Amago policyIt's gaming time.
>>1596850Agreed, 14 does really seem to be lacking. The last Nobunaga's Ambition I found really disappointing, I forget which it was but the gameplay was like XI's domestic and building planning mixed with an autobattler. I hated it
>>1596590>Way of the Amago>increase unit attack+defense depending how many Titles owned>Way of the Namioka >Unit marching speed increased.These sound very good.
>>1597110>I forget which it was but the gameplay was like XI's domestic and building planning mixed with an autobattlerSounds like either Iron Triangle or Tendou, which are around 15 years old already. I love those titles but shame you didn't like it.
>>1597141No, it was Sphere of Influence Ascension. I got it thinking "RoKT 8/10 but in Japan" and it was more like RoTK 9 with limitations
>>1597600>No, it was Sphere of Influence AscensionOh, no wonder... Ascension isn't a very good game, its officer play elements are especially shoehorned in because the game was basically an expansion of Sphere of Influence which was a faction play game.
Wish they'd try to do something like Ascension for Awakening. All the focus on delegating to AI and stuff is a much better fit than SoI.
I liked ROTK 13.
>>1597989I tried it for a bit. It looks decent so far, I guess. hero mode is cute as far as tutorials go. Not sure how it compares to 10 or 8 yet.Combat feels odd though. Again, I haven't played it much yet. But it very much feels like overegging the pudding. 10 felt way better when I played it.
This way WAY harder than it had it any right to be. I blame the poor coalition ai. Still VERY satisfying to pull it off.Then I had to restart the campaign because I didn't renew my alliances in time and everybody attacked me at once. At least now I finally managed to got a game going where I defeat Dong Zhuo, trigger the defeat event, and THEN don't instantly collapse.
>>1597950Wish we could get an English Taikou Risshiden game
>>1598845True. I was hoping fuckers could at least make it possible to make a full translation by removing character limits for their remaster of V, but no, I've clearly been expecting too much.
>>1598180Is that Rotk 14? What's your opinion regarding the game? The JP audience loves the game but I see some people in the west saying it sucks.
I kinda want to play ROTK 14 but 10 days passing each 2 phases irks me a little.
>>1599357most complaints about it is that is a very slow game, which when it comes to turn based RoTK is saying something
>>1598966Not that anon, but I personally dislike ROTK14 mainly for its warfare mechanics. Only being able to select a unit's action at the start of the phase reminds me of Doorkickers or Frozen Synapse, those kinds of games in the worst way. It really outs me as a chimp-brain with no capacity for forethought, and it angers me so. I do, however, like the Splatoon mechanics and being able to cut off units' supply lines to starve them to death or raid enemy commanderies, though the governing mechanics leave much to be desired.
>>1598966>Is that Rotk 14?Yep. Yuan Shao campaign, 190 start date.>What's your opinion regarding the game?Eh... It's complicated. I do like the game, and I intend to keep playing it (If only because of how many start dates it has now that I stupidly bought all the DLC) for the foreseeable future. It's definitely got a lot of flaws, big and small, but also a lot of things I like, also big and small. I think it's ultimately let down however by a few pretty big core design issues. So much of the game feels designed to make the game faster, and it mostly does that by being more management focused. Instead of assigning officers to improve commerce every turn, you just assign somebody to a area and they do it for you. I think's that a good idea in theory, the problem is that if the game then shoots itself in the foot. A lot of the systems are just very finicky, due to both design and interface reasons, and as a result things take way longer than they should if you want to optimize everything. More damningly however, if you want to optimize your turns there's still stuff you have to do every single turn. Not a lot, but enough that it still feels like a constant hindrance when so much of the game is about getting everything in it's right place and watching the magic happen. The result is a game with turns that are both way less involved than past games without massive improvements to the flow or pacing.
>>1600525(Continuing since this ended up being a long ass post)I also just find the character mechanics very outdated compared to something like CK or even Three Kingdoms Total War. It's a character driven game, yet interactions between officers feel incredibly secondary. Just throw rewards at everybody every turn, which you can easily do since gold is ridiculously easy to obtain, and loyalty is never an problem.>>1599820>>1599357While I agree, I think it's less that the game is slow and more that everything you do feels way more tedious. ROTTK 11 and 9 have way more stuff to do each turn, but both games also have more involving mechanics that actually make you feel like you are doing something. In 14, everything just feels like a distraction. >>1600054I'm the opposite, warfare is easily the best part of the game. Properly encircling units, launching raids into enemy territory, having to decide to commit to a attack or pull back. All of that makes me feel like a big brained boy despite honestly not being that complex.
Best title to get into this franchise? I don't really care about ancient Chinese history all that much, but I am willing to learn and what matters most to me is good gameplay.
>>1600533Should've clarified, by franchise I meant ROTK Nobunaga's Ambition type of games. KT grand strategy or what you call it.
>>1600533I usually see ROTK 11, ROTK 10, and the PS2 Nobunaga ambition games get a lot of praise.
>>1600534Genghis Khan 4 on PC if a translation is available. Great game.
>>1600534Nobunaga awakening seems real easy to get into, and easy in general.
>>1600546>>1600692>>1600753That's a lot of different answers. But Nobunaga got mentioned twice, so I'll pick one of those, ty.
>>1600533ROTK 11/13/14, NA Rise to Power/Iron Triangle/Tendou/Sphere of Influence and probably the newest, Awakening.13, 14, and Sphere of Influence to Awakening have official English translations, while 11, Iron Triangle and Tendou have some unofficial English patches.
Glad 8 remake is going to have the most officers, I assume a lot will be from 14? How many are post WZP, will it make the later scenarios better?
>>1600533If you're interest in Chinese history then go for Romance of The Three Kingdoms series>Aside from 12 being an outright bad game, each game has its own pros and cons >X is best for individual officer gameplay>XI is best for faction gameplay>VIII is getting a full blown Remake next year so you might want to check that one outIf you're interest in Japanese history, then go for Nobunaga's Ambition>Sphere of Influence is the most accessible>Awakening is the newest but is kinda hate-it-or-love-it title because the gameplay is geared towards roleplaying as the ruler while having faction gameplay>Iron Triangle and Tendou have pretty similar gameplay and generally considered the best in the series (Tendou is Japanese only though)
>>1601361I just want to know what exactly they mean by a remake. 8++?Either way, I imagine there will be more late game officers since that is something the new games have gotten way more right.
Apparently NA got a neat little spin-off on the NDS that's supposed to be pretty good:https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=J6auM6vFivY
>>1601376>>Awakening is the newest but is kinda hate-it-or-love-it title because the gameplay is geared towards roleplaying as the ruler while having faction gameplaySo it's like Crusader Kings?
>>1601807>So it's like Crusader Kings?No, the opposite, actually. At its core, Awakening is still a faction game, but a lot of the game's elements are limited to the ruler's POV, like you can only directly develop the ruler's castle while other non-ruler castles must be delegated to your vassals, or how you can only get into field battles when ruler's unit is available on the frontline. Random events and strategies are presented like the officers asking for the ruler's opinion but it ultimately is just assigning tasks to the officers like normal faction gameplay.
Is Awakening a much more enjoyable experience compared to Sphere?
>>1602328For me, yes. I've already surpassed my playtime in soi/ascension/taishi since awakening came out.
>>1601386The graphics are fully remade, that much we already know. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2288150/ROMANCE_OF_THE_THREE_KINGDOMS_8_Remake/
Every so often I can't help but wonder what the fuck Lu Bu's problem was and how the hell he managed to have good and loyal officers like Zhao Liang or Gao Shun (even though technically both were traitors since they were Ding Yuan's retainers before Lu Bu's).
>>1602988It's just what happens when you're unrivaled beneath the heavens. 'Built different' as they say.
>>1602988Probably unpopular opinion, but I thought Lu Bu wasn't all that bad. People back in the day backstab each other all the time, Lu Bu wasn't anything special in that, if anything he's probably better than the likes of Liu Bei or Yuan Shu because he is up front about wanting to backstab his ally so that's something.
>>1602988It's hard to say when so much of the real life guy has been overwritten by the fictional version and his uber strength, but the guy must have just been a font of charisma and personality. He managed to keep his enterprise together, despite some insane defeats and questionable start, way longer than it really should have. >>1603071I mean, I would say that murdering Dong Zhou was pretty good for the most part. Rest less so, though like you said it's also hard to view it as anything special..
>>1603071I dunno dude, murdering your foster father not just once but twice seems a bit out there even compared to the hijinks other warlords got up to at the time. It's funny that you bring up Yuan Shu as well, since his proclamation of a new dynasty was so universally-reviled that everyone decided to gangbang him, including Lu Bu (though in typical Lu Bu fashion he decided to try and throw his cards in with the Emperor Zhong as soon as things started going south, being politely declined in a hilarious reversal of circumstance).>>1603319Dong Zhuo is another weird semi-mythologised figure. On one hand he was known to be incredibly generous and chivalrous in his youth, but on the other hand despite his later actions being so abhorrent there are theories that contemporary and succeeding historians actually had to tone down just how fucking retarded his debauchery could get because of just how bad it would have made the Han look in its death throes. For some reason Tao Qian (or was it Liu Biao?) of all people was said to have held Dong Zhuo in really high regards as well. Things were honestly really fucking insane back then and I'm amazed as many heroes were around as there were, especially figures like Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun who seemed like swan songs or last hurrahs for the Han.
>>1603389It's weird insofar that the second time was WAY more justified and motivated than the first. Dong Zhuo is a pretty interesting figure, in part because he largely seemed to be as bad as fiction often portrays him as. Which is pretty impressive considering that his name is basically synonymous with tyrant in China cultural mythology. His name sounding like a dick pun and him seemingly being the OG ugly bastard doesn't help either. >For some reason Tao Qian (or was it Liu Biao?) of all people was said to have held Dong Zhuo in really high regards as well.I think it was Liu Baio, mostly because if I remember correctly it was Dong Zhuo who gave him his job as governor of Jing. >Things were honestly really fucking insane back then and I'm amazed as many heroes were around as there were, especially figures like Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun who seemed like swan songs or last hurrahs for the Han.In a way I think the situation creates the hero, frankly. Cao Cao, Sun Jian, and Liu Bei would have most likely lived relatively insignificant if it wasn't for everything going to hell. On that note, I always find it funny the way the Three Kingdom Era book ends itself with Sun Hao. Especially considering Sun Jian arguably did the most to oppose Dong Zhuo.
ROTKV way of raising the city's order level is very interesting.The Patrol option doesn't just raise the city's order but also gives you a series of random events where people ask for your help in accomplishing a certain task. Some are simple such as giving some of your food supply to the villagers but others have multiple choice questions that have different outcomes that either raise or lower the city's order and the force's fame.For example: Your officer may encounter a bar fight between drunks and you are given 3 options to stop the situation through diplomacy, participating in the fight or arresting the drunks.The 1st option only works for officers with good Politics/Charm, the 2nd for those with good War stats and the 3rd always works but gives only low order and greatly lowers your forces fame.Regarding the force's fame, aside from usual stuff like it determines how good the initial city order of a recently conquered city and affects officer recruitment, it also increases the number of actions a force can do on a single turn. The force initially has 3 actions (and never drops to below three even if your fame is 0) but the max is 10.It's nice preview to the officer focused Rotk games and comes across as more engaging than Crusader Kings because you actually engage with managing the city instead of just random choices.
After a day or two struggling with the Yamana, I thought they were doomed to be unplayable.I thought wrong.The Amago are fucking bastards in this game though. Crack infantry along with Tsunehisa's Panic are guaranteed to break through my list of C-tier guys.
Seriously, fuck the Amago. I realized I've become Ouchi Yoshitaka with the numerous save scums I've done over sieging Gassantoda.>First time, realize that my armies can still deal a significant amount of damage even if I'm stuck with B-C tier officers. Get good enough officers as my front line, while put Motonari and other bowmen as the ranged rear army.>March on Gassantoda, destroy the fort, panic Tsunehisa and his crack infantry, destroy tower 1, but upon reaching tower 2, get surprise attacked by the Amago, happens both to my frontline without Motonari, and to my rearguard with Motonari. >Second try, go for the signal fire to prevent the ambushes. Destroy everything plus take the fur to deny the def +4 tech. Motonari is now at the infantry/cavalry frontline. Try destroying the signal fire, but before I could it, the frontline gets sneak attacked for no apparent reason, until it crumbles.>Some more tries and I managed to destroy the towers and fire. Move in to surround Gassantoda, but I virtually have no morale, plus Tsunehisa is strong enough to hold me off.>Last try, decided to attrition the Amago, but got cocky after destroying them too many times. Reloaded many times because of the signal fire, but after one really good attempt, I smirked as I saw the morale drop at 2... until I heard the messenger along with a ominous-sounding tone. I lost everybody due to a rockslide. My bow squad tried sieging but failed spectacularly.
Finally beaten the Amago, took them long enough. The Ouchi showed up out of nowhere and parked their siege towers like it was a car meet. Too bad I'm almost done with their alliance. If the siege dragged on I would have gotten butt pounded by their towers and Gassantoda's going to belong to the Ouchi.Now that I have a good officer pool I guess I'm going west.
>>1604161Apparently there's a port for the DS and 3DS, of all places. Is there a fan translation?
Weird question, but how scripted is RoTTK 13? Is it like 10 or more like 7 and 8?
>>1593232This looks really cool. Is there a translation?
>>1607188No, but just like with my work on Genghis Khan IV and NA:Reppuden, I've screenshot and translated both the in-game menus and the glossary using google translate.Thankfully, I don't need to translate the tutorial as well since there's already a game guide for ROTK V: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/208896-romance-of-the-three-kingdoms-v-with-power-up-kit/faqs/75286And it's not just Rotk V that has a DS remake, both III and IV are also on the DS which also uses XI's portraits.As for Reppuden, here's the links to the pdfs I've made for anyone daring to play the game on the DS.Here's for the in-game menus: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sndPcCCmKZVP6lCEasf0Wiu-AhhQ29lD/view?usp=drivesdkItem translation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZBrTMy-OsSas0Lr4RWdQqoEoULj2I6WH/view?usp=drivesdkThe in-game tutorial: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z_xQFLE1wR-0LNirvcjQPxHGVSNHCUSV/view?usp=drivesdkAnd the in-game glossary of terms: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CooYsVP-Vui2pqHKHfwFuoE5SnaZ8eG5/view?usp=drivesdk
Did the Hiei deserve it?
>>1608104I'm not sure if the manga about Takeda Shingen is accurate but.>Most of the "holy" monks of Mt.Hiei are utterly corrupt. >The higher ranks spent their time indulging on food and mistresses while the lower ranking monks are little more than bandits threatening and extorting the villages in their areas.
>>1608132Those are basically what Koei decides to settle on in most NA's Mt. Hiei events too>my lord, stop! There are women and children here, you can't set the mountain on fire!>Why would children and women be present at a holy mountain? It's the signs that the monks are corrupted beyond reason, continue the attack!Something like that.
>>1608104Yes, the militants monks of the Kinai have been running amok for too long.
>>1608104KekThis is the content that keeps me coming back.
>>1608030Doing the lord's work.
>>1603319real life lu bu was basically another opportunist bandit like liu bei, although that bow and arrow thing thing was a real life anecdote/legend
>>1603389dong zhuo is the archetypical honorable general who loses his shit when he gets close to absolute power. I suspect the authorial meddling comes when it tries to show him as rude/corrupt in his military career.
>>1609724I do wonder how deserved his reputation as just kind of a dumb brute was. Nothing about the real life guy strikes me as hyper competent, but he did keep going despite some serious nasty setbacks that destroyed other leaders. >>1609725Seems likely. I imagine He-Jin probably wouldn't have done much better. I should read up about Dong's early military career someday. Besides the Yellow Turbans and some wars in Liang I don't actually know much of what he did before he took power.
>>1608104Eh... It's hard to say. Somebody was going to have to take care of them eventually. The main question is it if required quite so much violence. It certainly doesn't help that Nobunaga clearly didn't have much love for Buddhism and seemed to be flirting with Christian powers. I imagine somebody would have burned down the temple before long. You really can't have mercenary warrior monks and also a stable vaguely centralized Japan.
>>1610116This is probably the best opinion. Was it necessary to deal with them? Probably. Was it necessary to burn them alive along with their women and children? Probably not.
Which games don't involve shuffling food and gold?
>>1610713RoTTK 9 has a centralized gold pile, if I remember correctly. Food shuffling is still required however.Honestly, I just wish the system could be automated more. Just allow me to set up a route that is constantly being used to shovel supplies to the front line while still giving me control over the actual system.
>>1610713Mostly Nobunaga's Ambition games, except for Rise to Power I think
Any news bros? Did that anon lost his job again?
>>1610112>Dong Zhuo was born in Lintao, Longxi Commandery in the early 140s and was said to be a chivalrous youth who was physically strong and excelled in horseback archery. He travelled around the Qiang and Xiongnu regions and befriended many peopleHe sound like a shonen character lol. If you find anything interesting share it with us anon
Anybody play any of the PS4 versions? They're a lot cheaper but I'm worries about the controls.
>>1610683Murdering the women and children wasn't an uncommon strategy in the period, as shown whenever rival daimyos' families would be beheaded after falling from power. I think it was only particularly blown out of proportion because, in spite of the Hiei monks' supposed debauchery, the Buddhist social structure ran parallel to the samurais' own, and generally served as a method for samurai to avoid having to commit seppuku. Nobunaga eliminating these politically-motivated monks (as many tended to be, like Shingen and Kenshin) was a realisation by the other daimyo that he wouldn't be as lax as other people were about letting the priesthood get away with shit, and that samurai-turned-monks should stick to the pursuit of earthly pleasures like Araki Murashige did.
>Be Sima Yi>Bided his time well in serving Cao Wei until he manages to usrupt control over Cao Cao's legacy.>He and his sons further their grip Wei despite while Shu-Han and Wu decay.>Grandson overthrows Wei, establishes the Jin Dynasty and finally unites China.>Should be a happy ending.>Instead, Sima Yan is an unholy combination of Dong Zhuo, Liu Shan and Sun Quan in his later years. Decides to spend his time fucking thousands of women and have the bright idea of stripping military authority from regional governors while empowering his family members that also includes full military might and authority.>Tops that by making his retarded sons heir despite the objections of everyone.Thanks to Sima Yan, the Jin Dynasty ranks as the worst Chinese Dynasty, with the Jin Princes tearing China apart out of sucession conflicts and barbarians taking advantage of the clusterfuck to rape the hell out Northern China.
>>1612568Get fucked lol! That's what all traitors deserve! Still Sima Yi>>>>>Zhuge Liang
>>1612568To be honest, I don't think China could be saved. With that said, Sima Yan certainly didn't help matters. It's easy to see why people idealize Shu just looking at the outcome.
>>1613129Is it really betraying if you betrayed a guy whose grandfather betrayed the han?
Three Kingdoms period warfare is fascinating. Despite having a population that eclipsed its Roman contemporary, regional militaries seemed to have very few "professional" troops despite service being generally understood to be lifetime. Despite drills and formations still being a thing, armies were still comprised by and large by chaff who'd rout at a moment's notice and a very small core of champions and their family retainers who led by example. The idea that the professional armies of the Warring States period managed to regress back to aristocratic warfare of the Zhou/Shang and associated champion warfare rituals is mindboggling.
>>1613193Cao Wei probably would've been overthrown anyway since what they really lacked was the support of the established greater families, but if the Simas hadn't been such tremendous fucking imbeciles it might have turned out a little better. Or at least not resulting in losing the entire north for a few hundred years.
>>1612568Serious question, why does pop culture deem Sima Yi as a traitorous bastard all the time when even in the novel he shows no sign or thoughts of toppling Cao Wei, like, at all? Him assassinating Cao Shuang was just to ensure Cao Wei doesn't fall to idiotic leadership and be ran to the ground. It was his descendants who are traitorous cunts.
>>1614676Because his successors not only became usurpers, which is quite damning in long-term on its own as no ruler in his right mind will want to paint what the Sima did as something to be allowed, but, what's even worse, a massive historical failure . That's more or less the main reason.There's the issue with how historical Cao Shuang was not, in fact, all that incompetent or how for someone who was claiming to be acting in the interests of Cao Wei put Cao Fang under direct threat during his coup, or that his follow-up purge was very unseemly, etc. Fei Yi had a great takedown on Sima Yi's supposedly "loyal" actions. But ultimately had Jin not been the shitshow that it was, his actions would most likely be seen in a more benign light.
