What is the best civ in your opinion?
>>1591493DE is so ugly
>>1591493Winrates, or design?Bohemians, Franks, and Huns in the former case.Khmer, Viets, or Burgundians in the latter. Their creative approaches to eco give them incredible replay value.
>>1591494The font for the UI definitely is and I've gone on about it since release, but the graphics proper are really nice.
Aesthetically? Gotta be Mayan. I miss obsidian arrows.
>>1591493Persia is strong since the update.
>>1591493the best civ is whatever civ I think is coolest, and I think vikings are cool because they get this little guyhe beats up cavalryhe walks pretty fasthe regeneratesI just think he's neat
>>1591929>Fill rams with 'zerks>Move them up to enemy archers>Unload all>Smash>Get them all back into the ram>Move elsewhere
Bulgars>Easy to learn>Civ boni synergize well with each other, such as the TC discount making Castles/Kreposts easier to build and the best Blacksmith in the game making tech switching from cavalry to infantry (and vice versa) less of a chore>Viable Militia civ without Champions>Save a ton of food when investing in siege>Konniks look cool and flails are unique>Krepost is a simple, unique building with no major gimmicks>No crossbowsHonestly the most well-designed civ
>>1591493Saracens for that Mameluke cheese.
I only play cumans and I never click castle
>>1592469>when the response to archer meta is unironically lumbering land boats filled with vikings.
>>1595234This has been true since Conquerors expansion introduced ram garrions.
>>1591493Goths purely for gameplay. It's like my elo goes up 400 points while playing them.But god damn they're architecturally the worst civ when it comes to aesthetics due to only having palisades and no guard tower upgrade.
>>1596062Keshik good Lancers goodCA goodFree PT&TR goodSteppe nomads goodSimple as.
>>1591929who wins 1v1 viking or huskarl?
>>1597184huskarls are weaker than longswords on melee, go figure
Playing as the Huns, don't know why but I don't feel great pride in this one. Maybe that's because the Magyars were defeated by the Romans because they were neutral to everyone, and I didn't get the chance for them to be allies with me, or maybe because most of my Tarkans and Knights that destroyed the Byzantine castle died, I still like the Huns and everything about them. I couldn't really dig the auto max pop because I grew accustomed to building houses, but aside from that, the Tarkans with their ability to do heavy damage towards buildings alongside with the ability to endure arrows, and the cheap cavalry archers that melted pikemen, makes the Huns a very great civ. I'll never forget how I also destroyed the Roman dromon ships with my trebuchets, amazing how a minor bonus did some neat work lol.Does anybody here enjoy the Huns or are there better civs? It's quite unfortunate that I felt more engaged playing as the Huns in the Huns campaign over my playthrough in Skirmish against AI, but in the end, they were still pretty fun to play as even against Skirmish AI.
>>1598119The Huns are pretty fun in death match
Kino region units
>>1598119>don't know why but I don't feel great pride in this one.probably because Huns were considered the *best* and most popular civ before HD or DE came out and rebalanced shit. They were just ridiculously good compared to everyone else.
>>1603394Who gets halberdier in the end then?Also spanish should definitely NOT get Billmen whatsoever.
Finished playing as the Italians, and I had a lot fun with them. The campaign didn't provide the 'best' showcase of what the civ can do but it did a good enough job. First is the Genoese Crossbowmen, they are excellent against cavalry, because of bonus damage as well as the Castle Age unique tech (Pavise) giving extra armor to foot archers allowing Genoese Crossbowmen to sustain damage, they melted the Berbers army that was made up of cavalry without taking much damage, that's why I love them. Arbalesters are also good, I used them to raid and amass them since I didn't have much castles, they still deal very good damage. They do make the hand cannoneers redundant, but I still ended up training them since they are cheaper and I was running out of gold. I enjoyed using bombard cannons a lot more to melt enemy buildings, and they are cheaper than trebuchets. Condottiero is fine, they do make for some good infantry units but I just used them to get rid of any gunpowder units. Cavalry like Hussar and Cavaliers were my main melee units, as well as some good meat shield. Cheap university and dock techs are a neat bonus, it helped save many resources I needed. I also had a good eco through my playthrough, fishing ships are cheap and training a lot of them gives you so much food. The same rule also applies to Silk road, which did me a favor in garnering more trade cogs at a time when I was running out of gold tiles to mine and helped improve my gold eco. This allowed me to amass the army I needed to defeat the Berbers, Teutons, and Italians. I really don't know why, but I think the Italians are underrated for what they offer, but this is just my opinion.
Next DLC confirmed. Kanembu, Songhai and Somalis.
PUP December herehttps://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-december-pup-in-the-way/244235Big changes:-monk conversion time will be less based on RNG and more time fixed-a smaller cheaper version of faith available in castle age, regular faith tech cost reduced-Hindustanis vill discount increased-Rathas buffed-Hussite wagons nerfed-Savar nerfed-Chinese TC buffed
Tower upgrades should be researched at a tower, not a university
>>1606625Navy upgrades should be researched on a ship, not at a dock.
>>1606666I agree, Satan
>>1606625Combat unit upgrades should be researched at the mining or lumber campsTower and wall upgrades should be researched at the mill
>>1592605Only downside is not being called Bulgars.
>>1606710the mill should only receive berries and farm food and the hunt meat be dropped at the mining/lumber camp
>>1604778Actually looks pretty cool, but should be Hausa, Nubians, Swahilis and Kongolese.
>>1606666>>1606710Okay you're both trying to act retarded but I'm partly serious.How many times do you see people going for a university to get the guard tower upgrade in Castle Age? Never, because it's incredibly expensive on top of towers being already expensive. Not only you're expending resources to make a tower and getting the blacksmith upgrades but you'd have to spend 100 food 250 wood on top of the cost of a university to get the guard tower. Towers are barely used in Castle Age and getting to upgrade them without a university and saving on those 200 wood just for that tech could be a way of fixing that.
>>1597184>1v1Its not a good idea for Goth units to fight 1v1
>>1606625Go back to Age of Mythology.
>>1604778My dad works at forbidden studios and he says your a faggot
>>1606611>monk conversion time will be less based on RNG and more time fixed>-a smaller cheaper version of faith available in castle age, regular faith tech cost reducedGood>-Hindustanis vill discount increasedI don't think Hindustanis needed a buff, why not buff the shit civs?>-Rathas buffed>-Savar nerfedNot enough>-Hussite wagons nerfedBecause of the fast castle strategy
>>1606719I think you're missing the point of both of those.Tower upgrades are locked behind the university for three reasons:>To give the university purpose at that point in the game>To lock tower momentum behind a necessary burden>To keep defensive potential from being gated by the existence of defensive infrastructureSuppose your enemy wins a confrontation with a knight surround. What do you think would happen after his first forward tower goes up? The second it becomes clear he can advance on it, he researches "Guard Tower", then continues the push. Towers, unlike most units, are quite difficult to address from a losing position, and the Guard Tower upgrade gives them the damage potential needed to challenge mangonels, knights, and infantry.In contrast, tying them to the university both strengthens your reasons for investing in it, as it primarily holds defensive technologies, and means your commitment of 200 wood still comes into play, even if you stop researching Guard Tower due to some counterplay.Finally, it ensures that you don't have to make a tower somewhere in order for you to upgrade your towers, leading to a situation where you intentionally place defenses out of the way just so you can have a way to upgrade the defenses you need, or to compensate for the slow research rate that'd be needed to counteract tower spam being conducive to the rate of your defenses' improvement. Making it a university tech is healthier for us all.
>>1592605the only reason to play DE desu
>>1606710Fortified wall should be researched at the stone wall.
>>1604739Are genoese crossbows really enough against cav as the Italians? i dont got halbs to use against the cavaliers the Sforza campaign seems to use a lot of
>>1606758aren't they modded into HD?
>>1606789I don't know but a mod isn't going to do any good in mp lobbies.
>>1606831Don't they use it on Voobly?
Good evening. I love cav archers.
>>1606719If you're getting mangonel and you play a civ that doesn't have redemption you should.
>>1606731I think you may be right, it would just be too much on offense
I am thinking of playing as the Malians, how good are they?
Is there anything special about playing as the Malians?
>>1607076they are a super well rounded civ with pretty much no weakness-High pierce armor infantry with supplies-xbows with thumb ring-cavalry with +3 attack (missing blast furnace) with UT-cheap buildings and longer lasting goldyou can play any strategy with them and it will work
>>1607076>cheaper wood buildings and gold dropoff bonus for good passive economy>champkarls>lategame cavalry with a bit more punch than the baseline>fast university techs>hit & run nigress squads>the distinction of having Arbalesters but no Bracer
>>1607076Good gold and wood economy, which helps with flooding army, a good unique unit, good imp tech and their universities research quicker, if you are in a pinch and need ballistics/chemistry ASAP that helps
I HATE THE PATHFINDINGI HATE THE PATHFINDINGI HATE THE PATHFINDINGI HATE THE PATHFINDINGI HATE THE PATHFINDING
>reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/183j3cd/somehow_pathing_is_exceptionally_bad_in_the/New pathfinding just dropped
will you finally play ladder after this patch /vst/?
>>1592469Retard. Siege are even slower than infantry. You'd never catch the archers and the enemy would have plenty of time to react. Plus you are crammining your units into a tiny space to get murdered by mangonels
>>1607450I refuse to play 1v1 ladder until they add tournament maps.
>>1592469Siege towers are better for this.
>>1607484you can play team games too. Or are you just too afraid?Also, what kind of faggot wants to play tournament maps?
>>1607535>Or are you just too afraid?
How do I work up the balls to play against a real opponent, instead of just AI?
>>1607556Find your favorite song, play it loudly, go into quick match, and just play.
>>1607556Just do it. You'll lose a couple but that's good to get you to the right elo. Once you're at the right level you'll get a good feel for how opponents act and it's fun.
>>1606625the only research happening in towers is rape
>players resigning early in a rage forest game were Viper himself is playing I am a low Elo early resigner as well, do I change to be the change I want to see in the world or do I keep playing whenever I wantmmmhhhhh
Tell me your Christmas wishlist /AoE2/Here's mine:>Lower the cost of Town Patrol a bit>Buff Siege Towers, make them actually viable>Buff Bombard Towers>Increase the speed of infantry units a bit to make engaging against archers easier>Decrease the cost of Elite Skirmisher>Fix the pathfinding (not happening)>Free chemical castration for every civ splitterI think that's it
>>1608082>>Free chemical castration for every civ splitterAgreed.
>>1608082Just fix melee pathing. Its atrocious right now.
>>1608082>Buff Siege Towers, make them actually viablePlay team games fag
>>1608082>>1608157what is civ splitting makes me think you can somehow mix and match civ bonuses but that doesnt make sense
>>1608194Y'know how the original Indians civ got broken up into multiple civs? It's that but weirdos trying to break up other established civilizations.
>>1608082>>Increase the speed of infantry units a bit to make engaging against archers easierand elephants
Finally fixed my Aztecs mod. Retarded devs misspelled the name of a file.
>>1608082I forgot>Lower the cost of Siege OnagerThat too, I can't remember the last time I saw SO in a game
>>1608261Now it's "tlen timonequi!"
>>1592605When I random into them, I go for cavalry archers, same with Spanish desu
>>1607542Is 1600 TG ELO really enough to be top 600? Makes 1v1 seem really inflated
>>1608082I wish fags would stop trying to make generic infantry a viable answer against archers.
>>1608082>Buff Siege TowersFuck no. If you want to use a meme unit you have to work for it.
>>1608082I just want fixed pathfinding and re-voiced persian females
>>1608481Ok. We hear your concerns, but instead of that about how in the next update we roll out even worse pathfinding and to make it even we'll inexplicably move deer on one of the maps. Fair?
The bulgarian campaign ending is incredibly anti-climactic.
Why do you get an achievement for doing it the easy way?
>>1608660That's what Siege Rams are for.
I really like battering rams with pikemen inside.
Remove Chemistry from the game.
>>1608082Instead we should increase the cost and power of all final unit upgrades to match AoE1 which is the much better game.
>>1608955>which is the much better game.No it really isnt
hand cannoneer buff when?
>>1608953Two more weeks until the research finish
Chat should open when I press even when the victory screen appears so is more smooth and easier to spam 11 if I win against those chronic dark age wallers
>>1609124They are that bad?
>>1609124Let me guess, that was in arabia.Back in my days we played without walls whatsoever, in honourable arabia hun war with no walls mod.This new generation of players are mentally weak.
DE is literally unplayable for the chat censor alone.
Question: Are civs in the campaign also offended by patches?
>>1609372>Are civs in the campaign also offended by patches?Rephrase the question and try again.
>>1609318You can't add some lines to your hosts file to get around that anymore?
>>1609372Yes, game balance is also altered within the campaign with no dataset to keep it the same. This is more pronounced with civilizations added in DLCs to retroactively change them with more historically accurate equivalents where possible, like with Burgundians across numerous scenarios and the Indian spleet - where Prithviraj especially got updated to use Gurjaras. If anything becomes notably bad or dramatic because of it, they'll probably update the scenario, but generally these changes aren't too massive for noncompetitive play, and the enemy's preferred units often remain the same.>Burgundians throughout Joan of Arc still tend to prefer the Militia line>You'll see Poles use Obuchs in Henry the Lion (who used to be represented by Goths and then Slavs). >Bohemians in the Genghis Khan campaign have illegal units due to being changed from the TeutonsAge of Mythology is probably the one exception in the series that does keep the original game balance for Fall of the Trident, even after The Titans and Extended Edition (though The New Atlantis allows for post-EE units like the Onager).
>>1609398Fuck I forgot a line break. Have an anime girl.
>>1609398Malays now have siege elephants instead of war elephants for one of their campaigns.
>>1591493Haven't played in a about 6 months but last time I played Polish were absolutely fucking busted. Way too good.
>>1609404Poles were like, 2021. They've been nerfed a bit since and even in their prime didn't compare to the pajeets' own zenith.
>>1609404Poles got nerfed hard
100% truth incoming
>>1609469>Mayan on S>Britons on AYou're a metafag thus your opinion being invalid.
>>1609469Is this for power, or civ design?
>>1609057seen any... elves? hahahahaha
>>1609469>>1609472Either way, it's wrong. >Britons and Tatars both in A>Bohemians beneath Lithuanians
>>1609472Power on open land maps. >>1609471Cope+seethe
the age advance mechanic and the fact that there basically is no dark age military (militia are barely stronger than a vill, and armenian spears are mostly a meme novelty) plus the fact that tcs are pretty much unkillable without siege means there is no such thing as an all-in or early rush play.
>>1609482>means there is no such thing as an all-in or early rush play.Palisade rush, Bulgarian drush, Mongol scrush all-in, etc.
>>1609469What nation is that iron face with golden mustaches?
>Civ emblems are shields>Crests resembling shields are just made into actual shields>except some are faces>and some are just simple icons, crests that were never turned into actual shields like the other crests that were turned into shieldsfuck you have some fucking consistency FUCK
>>1609507I liked it in pre-release when the civs were just represented by an icon of their UU.
>>1609469>How to say that you're under 1000 ELO without saying that you're under 1000 ELO
>>1609487it's still not the same as 4pool or bbs in starcraft.
>>1609616Starcraft is a faster game.
>>1609617>That nonsensical S tier>Mayans, Azteks and Vikings F tierYou niggas dumb, here's the real list
Turn off map lightingTurn off vignetteTurn off bloom
>>1609629>Hindustanis and Gurjaras that low>Bengalis and Dravidians that high
>>1609633>Overestimating Hindustanis and Gurjaras>Underestimating Bengalis and DravidiansBoth symptoms of low skill
>>1609635We're not on the DoI release patch anymore. Even if Bengalis and Dravidians are decent, Hindustanis and Gurjaras are still better.
Is Inca campaign based on the actual history or is it all made up bullshit?Either way i find it very hard to pay attention to the plot, same with most of the indian campaigns
>>1609662Pachacuti was a real guy, yes. The campaign isn't particularly interesting and it's all mono-civ throughout. Regardless, it replaced the much shittier El Dorado which wasn't even a proper Incan campaign. Pajeets is like, three of them back-to-back, so it might kind of blend.
>>160808212 player mode so I can finally recreate DotA in the Genie Engine
>>1608325I wish devs made an actual attempt at making infantry viable at all in this game.
Nerf siege towers, op shit that shouldn't have a place here.
I have question, why in Cid campaign on standard difficulty AI literally does nothing aside building villagers but in d'Arc on same difficulty it actually attack, try to deny you access to resources and build barracks close to my base just to raid and fuck with me?
>>1609766I'll fuck you up
>>1609617For me it'sS: MongolsHaven't played enough: everything else
>>1609683Prithviraj and Pachacuti are the best "Forgotten" campaigns. The latter could use more civ variety (Chimus and Chancas when?) but the former is pretty great. Even if the story isn't stellar it's decent enough.
What's /vst/'s take on a Eurasian architecture set?
Kotyan Khan is one of the most kino campaigns in the game.
>>1609802The difficulty is inconsistent between campaigns. I don't know a lot about making AoE2 scenarios but I imagine they're just programmed to be less aggressive on the Spanish campaign
I bought the game. Now what? I know the basic how-to of the series from playing vs the CPU in AoM, do I have what it takes to reach 100 ELO?
>>1609912no this is a different game. do the art of war tutorial campaign and start playing games. ranked 1v1 you will start at 1000 and fall down or go up based on if you win games so you'll probably get slapped for a while before you find any success in pvp. I mostly play PvE either sp campaigns, coop or more rarely skirmishes vs the CPU
>>1609758It's already viable. You dumbasses just don't use them correctly.
>>1609855I don't care.
>>1609758Just play Goths, idiot.
>Rushing castles using vills with Sappers inside of siege towersI just want this to be viable man......... I have so many cool ideas, if only they buffed it.....................
>>1609960Sappers is for clearing out the wood buildings your enemy was using for map control. Only infantry is meant to attack castles in melee and win.
>>1609963>Achtually only wahwahwahwah muh infantry wahwah
>>1609968>Wahwahwah why can't I run my villagers under a castle and win wahwahwah
>>1609855need to wait for them to add a finland civ. the house will look like a sauna.
>>1609912Do you really want to play 1v1s right from the beggining?
>>1610006>sapmisWe already have Mongols as a playable civ in aoe2
>>1609930archer player will always outmicro and murder infantry player unless you're playing 1 out of 90 civs in the game like this mouth-breather suggests here >>1609940
>>1610028>Ranged units beats melee unit More at 11.
>>1610028How am I a mouth-breather? He wanted a viable infantry civ and I named it. Not my fault it's the only one.
>>1609960just put them in rams? dont they go the same speed as a siege tower?
>>1610029>infantry is useless in the gameIt's a rerun, we had this yesterday.
>>1610028the only way to balance archers and infantry would be to introduce quivers that need to be replenished either in archery range or via special unit. 20 arrows and you have to fuck off, can't just stutter step throughout the entirety of Arabia and win.
The issue is the meta is balanced around Arabia. The most boring and stale map in the game.
>>1610036hmm... maybe use the charging mechanic?
why do people think that finns and saamis are descended from the mongolsis it just a forced /pol/ meme that broke containment by getting reposted by maga boomers on facebook?is american education so bad they don't know that genghis khan never went anywhere even close to finland or norway?
>>1610040>butthurt finngolian automatically thinks this is the work of AmericansOBSESSED
>>1610040I blame the Finno-Korean Hyperwar.
>>1610036make the special unit slow so an infantry move out can fuck up the microing autist's long term fighting capacity. Donkey cart, or fat dude with a backpack, or something
>>1610037>most boring and stale map in the gameYou misspelled islands
>>1610046Who the fuck is playing Islands?
>>1610042pack up and fuck off, racist
>>1610036You are a bloody idiot, AoM already solved the problem with archer micro, which is giving them huge attack animation delay, so you are punished by constantly tasking them order, but rewarded by simple stand still and shoot freelySure you can buff infantry speed, but if you actually played as Celts or actively used Woad Raiders, you will realize that while you can close the distance and attack back, you will always lose because all archers are delivering a lot of accurate attacks while your lads struggle to keep up and trade blowsWhy you bloody imbeciles need to make everything so complicated? If your solution is complex and out of the way then it's inherently bad, keep things simple and easy to understand.I swear to God there's a lot of fools with brainrot in this thread.
>>1610066>if you actually played as Celts or actively used Woad Raidersso that's 2 civs out of 90, and you have to reach castle age AND get a castle up and secure special unit production... or play an archer civ and have to do none of this with all of the reward>Why you bloody imbeciles need to make everything so complicated?why do you bloody benchod bitches have to support the shitty status quo no matter what? Kys retard
wasn't the whole point of romans that it's a civ you can just infantry all-in withit even gets scorpion bonuses so you can do infantry + scorpionlike literally it was MADE to appease people who've been complaining that infantry and scorpions were too weak
>>1610011Why not? The worst of it is I'll waste mid elo players' time until I've lost enough games to get matched against players on my level where I can be competitive just by making villagers.
>>1610028Gee, maybe you shouldn't play infantry into their counter.
Except Huns were already the civ of choice for people who wanted to use infantry competitively; Huns houseless Drush all-in has been a thing since 2001, and it's the ultimate distillation of what infantry pickers want: you literally just make 3rax and make militia until you die.
>>1610083>wasn't the whole point of romans that it's a civ you can just infantry all-in withYou will microed to death, so it doesnt really work unless you got +4 PA Squires LS with Centurion aura buff
>>1610102Don't incas do a better job of that now?
>>1610077>or play an archer civ and have to do none of this with all of the rewardCorrect, which is why archers are OP.>why do you bloody benchod bitches have to support the shitty status quo no matter what?Are you daft? Supporting the status quo would be saying that infantry and archers are fine as they are, I just want archers nerfed.>Kys retardYou first, you buffon
>>1610115>Archers should be nerfed because they counter infantry>Despite the fact that infantry still have multiple approach tools, and decent resistance to beat non-FU archersYou're both dumb.
>spear beats horse>horse beats bow>bow beats spearI don't understand what is the problem with this? why do you want to make bow not beat anything?
Infantards at it again.
>>1610123>>Archers should be nerfed because they counter infantryArchers counter everything, a microed ball of archers will counter cavalry, skirmishers and 1 or 2 mangonels, and that's my issue, archers are always good no matter what and anybody else needs to roll a boulder uphill just to keep you in check.>Despite the fact that infantry still have multiple approach tools, and decent resistance to beat non-FU archersThis doesn't mean anything, malians, romans nor celtic infantry can handle full on archers, and the only infantry that can are huskarls, ghulams and inca eagles
>>1610132what does swordsman beat
>>1610132Archers csn easily beat cavalry with micro or if you hug a forest or buildings and cram 30 archers in one tile lol
>>1610146>unit being microed can beat guy looking at his town centersI still don't get it do you want the game to be like supreme commander where you just set your rally in your opponent's base and watch everything die while you don't touch the keyboard?
>>1610089Asking out of curiosity, nothing more than that
>>1610135>Archers counter everythingThat hasn't been true since the frame delay nerf.>a microed ball of archers will counter cavalry, skirmishers and 1 or 2 mangonels, and that's my issueThen why make this about archers when you can solve that with a projectile speed fix? Also, paladins crush archers.>archers are always good no matter what and anybody else needs to roll a boulder uphill just to keep you in check.I really don't have this issue.>This doesn't mean anything, malians, romans nor celtic infantry can handle full on archersThey're not supposed to. They're infantry.>>1610137It's an anti-building/trash unit you mix in with other unit types to fuck defensive comps up.
>Can micro skirms >Can micro mangonels>Not retarded enough to let infantry/knights chase xbows in between buildings>tfw have no issues playing against xbowsKek I'm glad I'm not retarded.
>>1610102What if I want to play the game and not just rush every time like a grug?
>>1610175Then you're clearly not an infantry picker.
>>1610134they're so stupid>pick unit that's just "guy who swings good with sword">surprised when it's not as powerful as siege engines that can disassemble a whole castle, monks that have literal magic powers, or mounted archers that can hit from half a league away at full stride
>>1610196>not as powerful as siege enginesIIRC a battering ram does the same as 4 swordsmen who can actually fight back villagers and light cavHow is that any bad?
>>1610196>pick unit that's just a spear chucker>surprised when it does nothing against mounted archersOh, wait. That's not how it works.
>>1610212mangudai, camel archers, war wagons, conqs, rathas, and genitours all beat a very cost-effective amount of skirms with proper micro though so i don't know what your point ismangudai when they hit a critical mass can literally beat infinity skirmishers if you keep them micro'd and on high ground
>>1610203>IIRC a battering ram does the same as 4 swordsmenHuh.Do 4 swordsmen garrisoned in a battering ram do more building damage than a ram + 4 swordsmen?or was the point to keep the swordsmen from being killed under castle fire?
>>1610223Funnier than that: Mangonels do about half the damage of a base battering ram, or about as much as two swords, if what that anon says is true.
>>1610223>>1610238Just test for yourselves on the scenario editor.4 Longswordsmen take as long as a single battering ram to destroy buildings.That's not even factoring upgrades.
>>1609507>except some are facesThat's not a face. It's literally a Cuman crest. It's been a thing for centuries.
>>1610090Infantry are countered by cav though. And by siege. And by monks. Whereas they don't counter anything. Except themselves.
>>1610123>nfantry still have multiple approach toolsName 2.
>>1610296>Infantry are countered by cav though.Hera...>And by siege.Only from a distance. Up close, infantry hard-counters them.>And by monks.In no universe.>Whereas they don't counter anything. Except themselves....And buildings, cav, siege, monks, and trash.>>1610297Rams and siege towers.
swords infantry are honestly great against all trash units in general without costing much gold themselvesthey're also good against eagles and buildings and actually trade evenly on resources against generic heavy cavalry
I have this weird obsession with watching people play campaign coop and nobody knows how to beat Hongfoglalas holy shit it’s not that hard take down great Moravia tcs with both your starting army beat avars build tc click up to imp stay the fuck away from the Bulgarians until you’re imperial they warn you twice motherfuckers
>>1610313Also stop putting the game on fast 2.0 if you can’t keep up with the game Chang
I want to see the devs implement offline lan for this game and start finishing it for when they inevitably abandon the project. I hate that it’s so tied in with MS servers
>>1610300What game are you playing? The spear line sure counters cav, the militia line does NOT.
>>1610394Militia line does on scatter formation. It just has a massing issue. You're supposed to add spears/pikes to make that a non-issue though.
>>1604771My favorite part of Teutons is unironically their farming. It's so easy to just farm boom the second you hit feudal.
>>1604778>OIGAI? Anyway, Songhai would be neat.
What's the viking play in feudal/early castle now that thumb is missing?
>>1610466Usually archers. You're usually not gonna get thumb ring in early castle anyways
>>1610466Feudal age is somewhat of an equalizer. If you are not using Spanish or Bulgarian archers just because they don't have crossbows you are sleeping.
>>1610300CataphractsIf you have cannon fodder infantry usually doesn't get to the siegeMonks work early and late castle age, because infantry are slow the monks have plenty of time to convert.In feudal age skirms will wreck infantry, you need squires
>>1610466Most infantry civs are played like archer civs anyway because infantry sucks
>>1610598What rank are you in 1v1?
>>1610600#3028Every other game at this level is archers, they will even go archers with Franks
>>1610606That sucks man. I'm not that high up the ladder so I see a variety of builds. Tbh every game I've played with medieval unit types ranged units have been difficult to balance
>>1610606>archers with FranksArchers with franks is a big brain move because of the free bloodlines for your knights and the free farm upgrades that allows you to have a double gold unit comp in castle and still play to your strength while trying to finish the game early
>>1610634They give me archers in the joan of arc campaign missions so they must be good
>>1610634>ignoring the part that says "finish the game early"Do you also ditch spanish feudal archers?
How do I git gud with Bohemians?
>>1610597>In feudal age skirms will wreck infantrySpears, yes.Swords, no.
>>161066050 farmersspam monks
>>1610660Try to build a chokepoint and build an unkillable ball of halbs and houfnices and push slowly, that's usually how they work
>BRO YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE MONASPAS I MADE HALBS YOU HAVE TO FIGHT ME AIEEEEEE MY ECO
Make siege towers work like c&c IFV, put archers in it gets projectile capability, monks a healing aura, petards give a bombard cannon, villagers make it work like a dock when engines dock into it they get repaired.
>>1610670>0.9 vs 0.96Ten skirmishers will kill a longsword and never get touched, archers help but skirms can still kite forever
>>1610699It's fine he had insurance
>>1610300thanks for the chuckle anon>And by siege.>Only from a distance. Up close, infantry hard-counters them.if you ever launch the game to check it out or watch someone else play, the "getting" in "up close" part is the issue being discussed. If you could teleport your longswords next to enemy archers and onagers, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Range completely invalidates melee. Both in game and IRL.
>>1610148>unit being microed can beat any other unit also being microedI still don't get it were you dropped on your head when growing up, or are you just pretending to suffer from hydrocephalus?
>>1610697Ten longswords will destroy the archery range before they can all be killed.Seems like you retards just don't know how to use infantry that's why you keep saying archers are strong.Yea they'll kill the swords but the swords won't be just randomly wobblying around as they die, they're targetting production buildings that will hinder the enemy after this fight.I'd have to test but you don't need too many men-at-arms to destroy a fully garissoned TC. Add in a few scouts to scare the archers away and you can end the game in feudal mostly with infantry.
>>1610721>If you could teleport your longswords next to enemy archers and onagersBut you can? Just garison them in rams lmaoI can't believe we're having this conversation again. Every thread people forget how to use rams and infantry.
Don't EVER reply to infrantrytards, not a single (You)
>>1610731>you HAVE to get to castle age and siege weapons to make infantry viable vs do nothing and archers are always viableyou're right! I can't believe you're still fighting logic with all possible might and power, you just can't win.
>>1610730>Seems like you retards just don't know how to use infantry that's why you keep saying archers are strong.>Yea they'll kill the swordsand then your eco, and then pick off whatever reinforcements you have. Should've just skipped inf and went cav or archers like meta dictates
>>1610735>>1610731There's only one way to settle this: A 1v1 DUEL!
>>1610466Archers. Every civ is better to play archers until late imp, then cav or seige can be used for some civs.
>>1610760Won't they die to Knights?
>>1610597>CataphractsNo one counts UUs.>If you have cannon fodder infantry usually doesn't get to the siege"If".>Monks work early and late castle age, because infantry are slow the monks have plenty of time to convert.And it's almost never cost-effective, because we're talking about a massing unit.>In feudal age skirms will wreck infantry, you need squiresOnly spears, not M@A.
>>1610736>and then your eco>skirmsIf you lose your vills to massed skirms, there is no saving you.
>>1610721>If you could teleport your longswords next to enemy archers and onagersYou don't need to teleport them in to attack siege. I've played longsword-pike into knight-mangonel multiple times, and the second I get on the mangonel, he's fucked.
How do you beat the Sforza campaign mission where you have to place a relic in a monastery to capture a city? The first one is ez enough but the second one is protected by fortified walls, multiple towers, light cav, a castle and a dock which is behind a sea wall. You can find one capped ram on the map but it gets dealt with pretty quickly and any army you try to send to the wall gets pelted by arrows. There is also the issue of getting a monk to the monastery under castle and tower fire
>>1610634>Frankish archers....useless in imperial ageDon't most games end in Castle Age anyway?
>>1610735You have to use siege to destroy buildings when you play archers anyway, how is that any different?
>>1610768Archers counter everything. They kill knights, huscarls, ghulmans, siege onagers, ballista elephants, etc. You name it, they can kill it.
>>1610784>And it's almost never cost-effective, because we're talking about a massing unit.Tell that to Aztecs, An Armenian tried to kill me with two handers but had to switch to crossbows because it will never work
>>1610812train some ships to break into the sea wall and yolo the priest onto the little bit of shore next to the harboradvance with the ships you used to clear the enemy boat guarding the harbor to tank the first few castle shotsmaybe the capped ram can get close enough to the wall outside to attract castle fire as well, i didnt try it
Behead those who wish for historical accuracy and "accurate representation" Inshallah
>>1610838>Tell that to Aztecs, An Armenian tried to kill me with two handers but had to switch to crossbows because it will never workThanks for giving us one of the two civs it wouldn't work on. Got anything informative?
>>1610825What about Paladins? They have high pierce armor and speed
>>1610857>They have high pierce armor and speed
>>1610852Aztecs is just the best at it, monks can be massed as well as longswords, and you need about twice the number of longswords to take a cost efficient fight. Plus monks don't cost food to make
>>1610862But they kill me... What do I do?
Would a 1v1 map structured like Marketplace be interesting, if the Gaia markets were placed inbetween the two starting positions?
>>1610863>monks can be massed as well as longswordsMonks take 50 seconds to produce and cost nearly twice as many resources. Further, you have negative map control due to the existence of scouts. BS.
>>1610847The devs could at least give us more campaign-only civs like the Normans.
>>1610847Mashriqi/Misri, Bedouin, and Andalusian civ splits whenAnd why the fuck are Mamelukes riding Bactrian camels
>>1610868Sounds like Gold Rush with extra steps.
>>1610874you could try to raid on both ends of the trade chain instead of fight king-of-the-hill style
>>1610842Thanks I'll give it a go and report back. i've been stumped for days
Got some weird issue where I can make new saves but not overwrite old saves. Anyone else has this?
>>1610902My game just crashes whenever I load a save. Seems like a new collection of bugs with every major patch. They fix 1 thing and break 5 others. Still one of the best games ever though
>>1610869Well yes if you add the scouts the monks die, but this is about whether longswords are viable against monks.>Monks take 50 seconds to produce and cost nearly twice as many resources.To make more monks you need extra monasteries(which cost 175 wood) and gold, if you get gold mining upgrade and saturate your gold mine it should be fairly easy to make more.Longswords require barracks(175 wood), food(60 wood per farm) as well as gold, if you have enough longswords to take a comfortable fight where you won't get half your army converted your either you are both low elo players and he can't micro more than one monk or you are not making villagers
>>1610911Or I grabbed wheelbarrow and supplies, and didn't decide to commit my castle age starting wood to massing monks out of some bizarre belief that my opponent would refuse to take advantage of a dumb move.
>>1610925Its a dumb move if you don't know how to micro monks, brilliant if you do
>>1610929Even if you know how to micro monks, you're one stable investment away from having to tech out of double monastery.
>>1610997If one stable was enough to shut down double monastery arena games wouldn't have so many monks.
Mangonels are good against early monks and the easiest units to manage if they get converted too.
God skirms are such fucking garbage>Just spend wood and food early game bro>Just get the armor and attack upgrade or your skirms will die against archers bro>Just micro them every fucking second or the enemy's crossbows will run away bro>Just get ballistics if you want to hit something bro>Just spend a stupid amount of wood for elite skirm bro>Btw your skirms are 1 mango hit away from death and like 3 knights with the first armor upgrade will counter a group of 30 fully upgraded elite skirms, so have that in mindEvery time I need to make skirms to defend myself my eco turns into complete garbage. If you're in a position where you have to make elite skirm you may as well call the gg most of the time
>>1610997And you're one ra ge investment away from losing the game. Or you could just make archers yourself.
>>1611040Please stop going one unit only comps.
>>1611095Archers+monks is a literally unstoppable combo.
>>1611119Can't you just spam skirms and scouts?
this is everyone's favorite youtuber's tier list is it accurate?
>>1611040Keep two on gold on feudal to make skirms AND archers so you don't tank your food/wood balance. The archers are to kill possible scouts, 5 or 6 archers do the job perfectly, same with skirms, 6 to 8 fully upgraded feudal skirms are enough. For castle age I agree is way more complicated and you need to spend 6 million res in 4 upgrades just to fend off archers but tbfair mangos and one or two monks are a better investment than ballistics, the "one or two knights to kill skirms" is fake news
>>1611233Not him but hussar with full upgrades trade decently, which is why most players go arb/halb
>>1611303You either go full trash like mbl skirms and spears or go like 4:1 in favour of archers
What can vikings do against Spanish on nomad? Fuckers don't even have hp for their monks
>>1611373Archers, their eco kicks in fast you just need to defend against conquistadors
>looking for custom campaigns>Have to weed through 6 trillion chink modsCant they just make them a seperate category
>>1611399Nothing more than a minor inconvenience no? Checked btw
>>1611233Archers counter both those.>>1611252Countered by archers.
i only play campaigns and the pathing issues are starting to really irritate me, how can people playing ranked tolerate this abysmal unit behavior
>>1611558Didn't the pathing issues start with the Xbox port? Maybe they really broke things to make the automatized gameplay for controllers work better.A shame they don't give pc version controller support.
Provided there is no skill gap, it's no possible to win against turks in arena, low Elo can't do it, mid Elo can't do it, pros can't do it. That's part of the reason that is the worst map and should have been deleted years ago. Turk and spanish pickers are the worst, even when I play TG and they are on my team I just know they are all scum
>>1611648Only chance is if Turks go fast imp and you are in a position to spam out tons of cav in castle age
I could beat every pro player on a good day
StarCraft manages to have much better pathing than AoE2.
>>1611698That's quite the low bar
>>1611648You can hassle them before they get there tbf. Something I would consider an unbeatable strategy on Arena would be the very fast FC (22+1) into forward castle drop that the Portuguese can do. The timing of it gives you free reign in early castle age to just take all 5 relics uncontested which is basically the game won
>>1611648Fast Feudal into MAA to knock in their gates and turn it into arena before they hit castle.
>>1611776>turn it into arabia*
Fastest you can get is 21 pop no?
>>1607476Retard. Siege are even slower than infantry. You'd never catch the archers and the enemy would have plenty of time to react. Plus you are crammining your units into a tiny space to get murdered by mangonels
What makes the new campaign narrations so bland compared to the originals?
>>1611867they're written by women and/or minorities
>>1611848>>1607476Fully upgraded Rams are faster than horses, has any of you played the game?
>>1611892Gets countered by archers
>>1611873kill yourself white cuck
>>1611867Dumb take, Dawn of the Dukes and burgundian campaign were fucking great
>>1611867They don't appeal to you
>>1611908>burgundianAnon I'm talking about the narration. The levels themselves are fine.>Dawn of the DukesHaven't played yet.
>>1611919>Haven't played yet.Then maybe play the goddamm game before emitting an opinion.You are giving me huge /v/ energy right now.
>>1611921>you have to 100% the game before emitting ANY opinionokay twittard
>>1611930>>you have to 100% the game before emittingUnironically yes>okay twittardThat's funny because /v/irgins, twitterfags and game journos are the ones that emit an opinion of a game without fully playing it.
>>1611942Post achievement list.
>>1611892Do YOU play the game? Even Mongol rams fully stuffed w/ infantry and Drill are only about as fast as a dark age scout; generic rams are 0.9 fully garrisoned (same speed as militia line w/out squires).
>>1611966I'm not the one requiring anything, though?
>>1611970Yeah, but post achievement list first.
>>1611975A deal is a deal
>>1610734Infantry is the most fun.
>>1611648I don't know why no one has gone britons against them, longbow halb can touch the BC's and halbs against the hussars. I do that on the ladder all the time on arena (in team games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaJQeNW_E0chow come the lowest ranked starcraft players seems actualyl decent and well adjusted, while the lowest rank AoE 2 players are literal mouthbreathers
>>1612111Far more AoE II players and the game is fun for bad players, not just good ones. There's not much appeal in making a neat little base in SC2 in comparison you can play your favorite civ and use their cool unit while making walls and castles.
>>1611742>22+1Just make your own castle and go to imp
>>1612111What is the starcraft equivalent of mining stone and gold in dark age?AoE 2 is a more complex game
>>1611438Not even slightly.
>>1612151Yeah but you have 0 relics vs the opponent's 5, you will eventually lose
>Make Cannon Galleons or Dromons on Crossroads>Demolish whatever's on the shore>Win easilyThe best part about these maps that the devs don't often pick are that shitters just seem to slice off half their brains and refuse to adjust for different map layouts
why are there so many weird maps in this game? you don't have enough bans to get rid of water maps and stupid shit like arena?
>>1612182>wanting to play a 5 hour gameMost fun arena game btw(by the way) Murder all arena faggots
>Oh man this medieval war game is so awesome I bet you can have some epic online battles>pvp meta is minmaxxed to death and games are decided by being a couple villagers behind your opponent or building a building at the wrong timeOf course
>>1612204They're a holdover from when the game didn't take itself so seriously. They haven't remembered yet that the only pvp map should be arabia with perfectly optimized resource locations. Fox only, no items, sudden death..
I'm tired of ranked, I can't take any more bullshitI have looked into the lobby browser and it's all full of chinese lobbies and boring stuff. How do I join cool casual community made stuff like forest nothing, earth maps and shit?
>>1612249just play low elo games with noobs who prefer to turtle
>>1611963These are old numbers, Rams got buffed some patches ago.Regardless, even before fully garisoned Siege Rams could outrun any archer except for cav / plumed archers.
>>1610736Scouts (except Hindustanis) and Archers can't really threaten buildings on Feudal Age.
>>1612261Have you looked at unranked?
>>1612406You mean quickplay? It has literally the same map pool as ranked which I don't understand. Why not add a lot of cool different types of maps and gamemodes instead? If I want to play arabia for the 99999999th time I'll just go to ranked like most players. I'd like to see diplomacy, regicide, x256 tech, forest nothing and other fun casual stuff easily available instead of the same garbage maps that give me a headache just by looking at them.Also I remember pros like Viper talking about the ranked map pool being always the same thing and that ended up going nowhere sadly
>>1611013The arena map itself makes monks a safe investment.>>16110831-range anything + double monastery isn't beating 1 stable.
>>1612331They can threaten the one building that matters: Farms.
>>1612480>FarmsI don't need farms to make archers lel
>>1612480Whatever they can 'threaten', swords will do it faster because of bonus damage and that buildings cannot run away.
>>1612536Farms are usually in TC range
>>1591929>the best civ is whatever civ I think is coolestThe only objectively correct answer
>>1612323The numbers the above anon are referencing are up to date. The ram buff in June affected only Battering Rams' and Capped Rams' base movement speed and garrison capacity to match the Siege Ram, which remained unchanged. BR had a base movement speed of .5 and a garrison capacity of 4, maxing out at 0.7 units per second when fully garrisoned. CR had the same base speed but one extra capacity, going up to 0.75 units per second. As of current balance, all ram types have a base movement speed of .6 and a garrison capacity of 6, maxing out at .9 units per second. All ram types fully garrisoned, with the exception of Mongols with Drill, will move slower than a basic archer's .96 movement speed. They can, however, outrun Hussite Wagons and Organ Guns. Drill increases the base movement speed by 50%, so from .6 to .9. Fully garrisoning caps out at 1.2 units per second, which is an interesting breakpoint for speed in AoE2. Lots of medium speed units like War Wagons and Condottieri have a movement speed of 1.2. At this speed, you are faster than all foot archer variants except Plumed Archers, which are also 1.2 speed.
>>1612331yeah but they threaten the shit out of your villagers, and if you lose enough of them the game is over anyway. If anything this is another argument against melee>can palisade wall against melee harassment>this turns into little auschwitz against archers who have 0 downsides
>>1612537Doesn't matter when 5 MAA (325 resources) can beat 4 Scouts (320 resources) extremely confortably in terms of how quickly they destroy buildings.
>>1612555hey sotl didnt know you browse /vst/
>>1612559No, it absolutely matters. If your units die, that can't destroy anything.
>Team aftermath boots Hera>Starts losingI know he is a faggot but put him back on the team
>>1612575>>Team aftermath boots HeraQRD?
>>1612586Just a joke because he has not been playing in the tournament, bad timing for him I guess
Would you spleet architecture sets?
>>1612594I would just give every civ a different castle, university and monastery.
>Heh, you thought I lost 5 men at arms but you just lost a farm bro
>>1612209Didn't say it's a fun way to play, it's just a guaranteed win. The only counter play is going fast feudal archers I think but that's a big risk on Arena and will screw you if the opponent just goes 3 TC boom
>>1612594Easter European and Mediterranean need that a bit. Though of something like a Pontic/Hellenic set for Bulgarians, Armenians, Byzantines and Georgians.Also, a "Northeast" (?) Asian set for the eventual new chinese civs including the Mongols.
>>1611399Those chinks are the ones doing most custom campaigns, and they even make some passable translations, so thank them.Related question, why are mostly chinks the one making mods? Where are the rest of mod makers doing?
>>1612594Bohemians should swap with HunsByz should go back to ME architecturePersians should go for Central AsianArmenians and Georgians should've had their own set
>>1611399Those campaigns look SOVL though
>>1611399Chinks carry the modding community either we like it or not
Emoji for chat DLC when
what are the best gunpowder civs? since not every game makes it to imperial I am only considering ones that can make a gunpowder unit in castle age.portuguese seem like they are strong in general and have organ guns which I guess are good now, but I'm not sure how powerful arquebus is and you need to reach imperial to make use of it. spanish have conquistadores and shoot faster bullets or something, but it seems like their only strategy going this route would be fast castle timings. bohemians can get hand cannons in castle age, but rushing for them seems like a strategy that stops working after a certain elo, and their wagons seem like the devs don't know what to do with them. then there are t*rks who have jannies, free chemistry, and other relevant buffs, but the downside is you have to play as t*rks.which one is the best? is there anything else I am missing?
>>1612865Bohemians, Turks, Spanish.
>>1612805>>1612749>>1611399But 10-20 of the most downloaded custom campaigns are made by one American guy who inexplicably copypastes his biography into all of his mod descriptions
>>1612865>but rushing for them seems like a strategy that stops working after a certain elo2k3 Elo maybe
>>1612699>Though of something like a Pontic/Hellenic set for Bulgarians, Armenians, Byzantines and Georgians.More specifically, I imagined something in this style.
>>1612881how fast can you get hand cannons out? I looked for bohemian fc builds but the only one I found was the wagon all in.
>>1612899>Dark rooftops Fund it
>>1612609>Targetting farms with infantry>Not Markets, Blacksmiths, Barracks, all outside TC range, forcing engagements>Not destroying their Archery Ranges firstWhen you select a sword unit it says>Bonus damage vs Buildings
>>1612879You answered yourself, dumbfuck yankees can not understand playing anything that isnt from the USA.
>deliver a relic to the georgians to make them your ally>escort monk with relic to make sure he's not raided by the aq qoyunlu>the goergians take my army in their base as a sign of offense and attack my monk and steal his relicrudeboys
>>1612906Farms are included in that.
>>16124771 range will be enough to beat 5 stables.
>>1611648Bohemians are even better than Turks on Arena.Also, you can go Feudal aggression with towers.
opinions on bohemians? good, bad, or just okay?
>>1613003From okay to good, you never really go wrong with Bohemians
>Arabia no longer in TG map rotation>People still does Archer Flank Pocket CavalryAt risk of sounding like a salty dog, I will say something a lot of people will hate but deep inside know it's truth:Open map Team Games are solved, it's a solved game, this meta cannot be bested and, if you dont mirror it, and actually attempt to do something else, it will feel like pushing a boulder uphill.I will credit when credit is due, Hera did tried to help with this little vide about the stale Arabia TG meta, but it's not an issue of Arabia in itself, but the playerbase, because everyone and their grandma does this strat by default and almost always win.
>>1613011Open maps in general are solved. BF and Arena is all I wanna play.
>>1610040back in the 1800s and early 1900s the enlightened racial theorists of Europe and America considered Finns to be of the Asian mongoloid race and thus non-white
>>1613014Its funny how closed maps have more strategy than open maps
>militia-line now gains +1 attack against cavalry per age starting Feudalthere, I fixed infantry for you
>>1613007but hera said they are low c tier
>>1613024you did nothing to address outstanding issues and made further nonsensical balance decisions contributing to the death of the game and genre
>>1613003They are great, limited options and no mobility sadly but they are excellent in providing you with what they have>>1613011>People still does Archer Flank Pocket Cavalryyou will see that kind of stuff if the map is just a variation of arabia
>>1613071No, it's fixes everything. Makes the trash counter triangle more of a thing for gold units as well. Infantry is more usable as a main unit now because it doesn't die to both other types now, only to its natural intended counter (archers). Pikemen are a cheap and fast counter to cavalry, while swordsmen are slower at killing them but still effective at it and serve as a main power unit as well. Heavy cavalry still maintain pop efficiency and above all mobility as advantages, but they don't get to freely stomp all over swordsmen anymore. You can actually push with an infantry army and a cavalry player would have to actually invest in counters like siege, archers, or static defenses instead of just spamming more cavalry. You know, exactly the way someone has to invest in counters when attacked by archers or cavalry.
>>1613024Militia line is now faster than archersthere I fixed your dogshit unit, can the devs stop pretending that any buff besides move speed is relevant for infantry at this pointWhat is their fucking though process>let's make archers good agains infantry and btw the infantry will always be slower than it!!>and cavalry also beats infantry!!
>>1613084Infantry should die to archers, but beat cavalry. I guess you could also make archers have longer fire delay so it's harder to micro them. It might make cavalry too good against archers which makes buffing infantry against cavalry an even butter suggestion.
Just-buff-the-siege-tower. Make it faster, cheaper and have more capacity so you can use it to raid and to engage against archers.That's it, that's your infrantry buff.
>he I don't need to make army in feudal>I'm confident in my win because my speed is superior>waa waa help me! enemy is attacking me and I don't have army!>why you no help>I even X you Team games is only to practice for 1v1s. Fucking mouthbreathers
>>1613124Why would you use sub par units when you could just use archers?
>>1613107Infantry can't beat cavalry with bonus damage because cavalry can just move away.That's why halberdiers have such huge bonuses because they can never actually reach horses.Thing is you can't make infantry worth a damn without micro commands like shield wall / charge
>>1613107>Infantry should die to archers, but beat cavalry.except that's supremely retarded and nonsensical, cavalry charges historically absolutely annihilate groups of infantry AND archers. Hell, most medieval battles were decided by cavalry charges that caused infantry to scatter in panic and break ranks and formations.Infantry is supposed to be the bulk and backbone of every military force. If you want infantry to make sense historically and in terms of gameplay, then>increase cav cost to the point where cavalry civs have to be reworked into something else, as fielding 100 knights is impossibly expensivebasically forcing everyone to play archer/infantry and maybe, possibly supporting them with small groups of ridiculously expensive cavalry.tl;dr if you remove aoe2 features from aoe2 it becomes a realistic game where battles play out the same every time
>>1613191Unlike spears, swordsmen can force a fight by just going to the enemy base and be truly threatening with their anti-building bonus and enough attack to kill villagers. Currently you can't even do that since heavy cavalry win no matter what, so swordsmen are pointless.>>1613192Your only argument is>muh historical accuracywhich isn't very convincing. We're making a game here that needs to be balanced. Your suggestion is even more nonsensical and retarded from a gameplay perspective.
>>1613159Because sneaking into an enemy base with infantry and melting a TC while you hear *clank* *clank* *clank* makes my pee pee very hard
>dmg bonus vs siege from 40/50/65 to 30/37/43>garrisoned Infantry bonus from a flat +10 building damage and +0.05 movespeed to an additive +10% movespeed/bonus damage (which includes the anti siege damage)Fully garrisoned rams now move at 0.96 speed (up from 0.9) and deal a total of 200/240/320 antibuilding damage (up from 185/210/260) and 48/59/68 antisiege damage (from 40/50/65. This means that fully garrisoned battering rams/capped rams/siege rams oneshot mangonels/onagers/siege onagers respectively)To the Microsoft employee that lurks these threads, get to implementing these buffs so rams can finally be viable. Also >New bonus for bulgarians: Rams receive 50% increased benefits from garrisoned Infantry (from +10% to +15%)
>>1613199>swordsmen can force a fight by just going to the enemy base and be truly threatening with their anti-building bonus and enough attack to kill villagersPic related >muh historical accuracy>which isn't very convincingkys
>>1613192Aoe2 is not a historical autism simulator
>>1613220>pic relatedyes, very good, you're forcing the enemy to invest into counters instead of just continuing to mass cavalry, you're starting to get it
>>1613217I agree rams should oneshot mangos. If you're dumb enough to let a ram get close to your mangonels you deserve to lose it
>>1613024It shows you never actually played with infantry before.>>1613079No it fucking doesn't, MAAs already beats Scouts and LS relatively trade evenly vs knights, but that's not the reason why infantry is not used, they are not used because:1) Are slower than archers, so they cannot force a fight or escape a bad situation, which is why celts are the bestt MAA rush civ2) Archers have no frame delay on their animation3) Scouts can disengage and attack elsewhere, forcing you to have a couple of spears around your baseThe problem is that if it dies to archers then it's already a questionable unit to use, but since it's the unit that dies the hardest against archers, nobody fucking uses it.
>>1613227Investing in siege is not really that big of a deal because once your infantry is dealt with your base is next. With cav/siege even
Stand back you scrubs this is how you fix infantry>Longswords, 2hswordsmen and champions movespeed from 0.9 -> 0.95 (0.99 -> 1.045 after squires)>2h-swords hp from 60 to 65
>>1613233I know they are already decent against cav, but they need to do it even harder. That was the whole point. And the idea of nerfing archer frame delay in conjunction with this buff already came up as well.
>>1613236Knights + siege is horrendously expensive together and slow to produce, and infantry player obviously have options like their own siege or monks or even cav of their own to complement their army.
>>1613241>but they need to do it even harder.That wont solve anything and they will still be under utilized.>And the idea of nerfing archer frame delay in conjunction with this buff already came up as well.Archer frame delay alone might be enough.I still can't get over the fact CAs got nerfed to the ground when HD released, but archer-line got completely ignored, and them being a better micro unit than the fucking historically accurate cavalry archer unit that is MEANT to be hit n run and used to do micro.No Mangudai doesnt count either.
>>1613243>monkst. playing with vikingsWhat now Also, the other player doesn't need to produce more knights, only some mangos and focus on eco
>>1613252just add your own mangos, if your enemy doesn't do anything else they'll just lose the ground and their base
>>1613214Unless your opponent left some archers in his base. Then you're screwed.
>>1613238>Still dies to feudal archers.
>>1613241>but they need to do it even harder.What if I told you there's already a unit that has huge bonus damage against knight and scout lines? It's also available for 90% of civs.
>>1613273And is absolutely worthless for everything else. Actually read the discussion you're trying to reply to.
God pro team games are so fucking boring to watch>Bruh he make the knightsss>Bruh he be making crossbows fr
>>1613277Nah, fuck you faggot. You want your stupid ass faggot line to be able to do everything because you're a fucking retard whose fixated on playing a non meta unit. Eat shit.
>>1613285>to do everythingThey die, and should die, to archers, siege, and static defenses, as already mentioned. I don't think you're actually literate.
>>1613277???Just mix them together they walk at the same speed and occupy the same space and are created from the same building, benefit from the same upgrades.Make 1 pike for every 2 or 3 swords and you're good bro.If they start spamming archers throw in the skirmishers and focus on swords instead of pikes.If they keep the knights coming throw in more pikes.They cannot bring in siege unless they built their workshop right under the TC as your swords will break the buildings and whatever siege comes out of it before it can be of any issue.Unless the enemy is smarter /higher elo than you therefore invalidating everything
Instead of making archers harder to micro, they should make infantry easier to micro. Melee units work just fine in StarCraft, and that's because they're strong and eminently microable.
>>1613315>If they start spamming archers throw in the skirmishers 1000 Elo talk
Why do you keep giving the autistic infantryfag (You)sStop it, and stop the horrible opinions too
>>1613315It's resources and production time you could have spent on a unit that's good at other things too. Ideally spears should be for when you absolutely need cav dead real fast or for civs who otherwise don't use infantry.
>>1613315>Need 6 upgrades to make skirms viable against crossbowJust make a siege workshop
>>1613342They have 10 apm they can't use siege effectively.
>>1613343You see that all the way to 2k my dude
>>1613285>whose fixated on playing a non meta unitYou speak like that's a bad thingBreak the meta, break the status quo
>>1613343If both players are low apm then mangonels come out ahead
>>1613326Have a (You)
Can't talk about infantry in the generic sense because if your civ doesn't have a bonus you shouldn't even bother with swordsmen and if you do have a bonus you are playing the Aztecs so Eagles and Monks can cover you up.
>>1613359>you shouldn't even bother with swordsmenIt depends.
>>1613359I like Bulgarians, you have other options but if you need to tech back into infantry you already have the upgrades
>>1613325This. Archers counter skirms.
>>1613359Aztecs are a archer civ.
What if bulgarians could train dismounted konniks (for like 40% of the resource/ time cost of a regular one)
>>1613376Because their two handed swordsmen are superior
>>1613214>sneaking into an enemy basethis is age of empires 2, not metal gear solid. You're not playing against sentient life if fucking slow ass men at arms can walk all the way to the TC
>>1613241>I know they are already decent against cav, but they need to do it even harderyou want to replace halbs with militia line that does two jobs at once for the price of gold and food. It's still retarded and doesn't solve any archer related issues.
>>1613316>Melee units work just fine in StarCraftif by "just fine" you mean they walk in a straight line towards their death, then you're right. Some units are more responsive than others, but the only 2 units you can micro really responsively are mutas and vultures, and vultures will still fuck around and stutter and trap themselves on themselves or map doodads. Cracklings are very fast so they fill in the gaps quickly, but regular ling groups? It's fucking messy my dude
>>1613326>noo why do you discuss video game in a thread dedicated to discussing video game!!!! just play arabia!!!!
>>1613383Archers are fine, infantry aren't.
>>1613394no, archers invalidate infantry altogether.
>Counter unit counters what it's intended to counter>/vst/ thinks this is brokenIncredible.
>>1613397>unit counters 1/3rd of the game's unit roster>zoomie thinks this is good game designIncredible.
>>1613398Just accept you're shit at the game and let more qualified people decide the balance, thanks.
>>1613380>Not raiding the enemy on the opposite flank while you build barracks at the corner>Not spamming swordsmen from 3 places at once so the enemy can't focus>Not bringing in the 4th group of 20 swords to snipe TCs while they're busy elsewhere
>>1613396As they should
>>1613400>let more qualified people decide the balanceWhich does not include you
>>1613398Yeah, spearmen are well designed
What if Infantry Armor techs add +1 pierce armor by default? Maybe not the first one but the 2nd and 3rd.
>>1613410What if every civ gets a new swordsman line who dodges arrows like shrivamsha?
>>1613269I'm starting to believe you infantryfags simply want infantry to have no weaknesses whatsoever
>>1613379Not before an imperial age tech. They are also more expensive(45f 20g vs 24f 28g) and take longer to train (21 vs 7-8 seconds)
>>1613408What do they counter?
>>1613428I'm a proud archerfag.
>>16134321/3rd of the game's unit roster
>>1613437What 3rd? Monks? Trade carts? It certainly isn't a military unit.
>>1613439you should try playing the Art of War tutorial in-game, it explains these basic concepts to you
>>1613440I just make archers into GG.
swordsmen should do bonus damage to spearmen since in real life zweihanders were supposedly used to counter pikes
>>1613537You dont play the game
>>1613547in age of empires 3 you could get doppelsoldners who did big melee aoe damage
>>1613548Cool.This is an Age of Empires 2 thread however.I suggest you depart to an AoE3 thread. Now.
>>1613537>supposedly?Yes or no
>>1613385Lings are literally the most cost-effective unit in the game, ultra+ling with carapace upgrades is a viable endgame Zerg comp all the way up to pro level play, and almost every Protoss player on the ladder is a Gateway unit spammer in every match-up. It takes a marine like 33 hits to kill a zealot when the zealot only takes 3 to kill the marine.
How can I stop being such an immature retard and get mad when I lose. I even take it personal for some reason
*stop getting mad
>>1613567>Goths viable as archer civ and not spawning a single infantry unit until imperial>Romans viable wtih scorpion spamindeed
>>1613537They already counter spearmen though
>>1613555we're talking about pathfinding and unit responsiveness
>>1613550hey stinky poo poo head. This is a theory discussion thread and using mechanics from the sequel to prop up shitty infantry is at least a much better idea than making militia line into halbs+
>>1613588>This is a theory discussion thread and using mechanics from the sequel to prop up shitty infantry is at least a much better idea than making militia line into halbs+Both of these ideas are terrible and you two should feel equally shame.What infantry needs is more movement speed and slow archer attack animation speed.
How are chinese in the PUP with the better start? Are they ESMOOTH?
>When your arbalests get deleted but there was no mangonel
>Oh, so you want to know more about the tale of the great Anon the Fag? It is a most famous tale, but I will tell you because it is hecking ebic indeed.Why do all nucampaign start like this?
>>1613665>nucampaignHenry the Lion was in base game tho
>>1613670Read the question again, Anon the Fag.
>>1613672what question? who are you quoting?
>>1613665For me, it is when it is revealed that the narrator of the campaign is the main enemy of it.The amount of campaigns that do this shit is off the charts
infantry should get a javelin.
>>1613686Not as common but agreed.
is this how it works? why didn't they make spears the gold unit?
skirms are called "light infantry" (fanteria leggera) in the italian localization
When the fuck is the patch coming out
>>1613738Cavaliers and Paladins are called Heavy and Imperial Knights respectively in the japanese localization (kino).
>>1613737Swords counter spears and also scouts, at least as much as spears do.Spears are very useful in any cavalry matchup, but they do just about nothing otherwise.Swords at least kill buildings and are tankier.
It's funny that it took TWENTY-FOUR YEARS to introduce basic information on a unit like movement speed
I love AoE2 campaigns brosWell, the SEA ones can be a little grindy But I still love them
siege may beat slow infantry but it definitely does not beat fast infantry
yeah and archers don't beat huskarls, what's your point?
For me it's Hojo Tokimune campaign for the Japanese.
Warrior Priest gets infantryfag seal of approval>Mauls knights>Decently fast, can raid relatively well>Can raze TCs easily>Easily catches up with crossbows and are somewhat tanky>Can heal eachother and other unitsWould recommend doing a 2-3 monasteries Warrior Priest rush in Castle Age, but would advice going against making them in Imperial age
>Open pic>Retardmaster appears on it>Close pic and don't read post
>>1613935Still, gotta hand it to him. Everytime he's last in his team and getting carried, if not last overall and still shares the screenshots.
>>1613935I own him a couple of matches that I won because I went full infantry>play against celts>he goes full maa after drushing >I go full maa as well since I am aztecs>I get upgrades and clean his initial army>he makes more maa>eventually he switches to archersShould have stayed in maaI still couldn't properly test his theory of full maa defeating that stupid sicilian all in
>>1613820What about drill onager?What about Ethiopian SO?
>>1613948At least he sticks to his strat even though it is not optimal>>1613959There are plenty of other ways to beat the retarded Sicilian strat, Bohemians are still the highest win rate. Elephants can basically take serjeants 4 to 1
>>1613815You forgot something.
>>1613973>Elephants can basically take serjeants 4 to 1Ideally, the sicilian's opponent wouldn't reach castle agehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=HEFGL_cA3uo and if he did it means game developed quite normal and he can just add monkshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrwKAxedFFo
>>1614011>Ideally, the sicilian's opponent wouldn't reach castle age>and if he did it means game developed quite normal and he can just add monksMalay and Khmer are going to reach castle age with enough eco to get out a few batches of elephants.If he adds monks you start making light cav, you are working with a better economy and he doesn't have momentum with his push. It can develop into a normal game if he decides to stall out the push and add economy, otherwise he is screwed because light cav snipe siege and monks so easily
>>1613999fixed that for you, aussie satan
>>1614045>Monks die to everythingBuff monks
Turks should be able to train Steppe Lancers.
>>1614137I agree but Turks are already pretty strong
>>1613935Why you are so angry at me, anon?
>>1614150Take their Knights and Cavaliers away and give them Steppe Lancers in their place.
>>1613999Swords beat all non-gold units though.It's not a perfect triangle.
>>1609855We definitely need more architecture sets for existing civs.It's a shame so many share the same set while IRL their cities are so different like Spain vs Armenia or Moroco vs Persia.
Last A&K scenario is pure kino.
Still don't see the point of the militia line, hit buildings hard? lol
>>1614321The militia line counters barracks units, unless their militia line is superior
>>1614321Yes preciselyHit buildings hard without costing wood and breaking apart from cavalry.The game is about buildings but people pretend units doing well against them isn't a role on its own.
HERA is NOT happy!
>>1614356Has he left the cuckshed yet?
>>1614445Balance. Nili said so!
>>1614448One of the greatest legends of the AoE2 community, you young whippersnappers wouldn't know. He proved that spearmen counter knights.
>>1614455>Nili's biggest contribution is a shit flinging contest over knights vs pikesHe should've stuck with poker.
let infantry stack ontop of eachother just like archers. see how fun archerfags think it is when the 60 huscarls stand in a single square and all attack back. imagine the badabooms.
>>1614465I really don't understand why archers can stack but no other units.
>>1614465At least spearmen should've always had 0.5 range.
>>1614465>Using the same bullshit strat archers do against themFighting fire with fire, I love it.Siege would have a field day with it but that's a worth it risk.
>>1614501imagine the druzhina splash damage
>>1614275>Swords beat all non-gold units though.Only if your enemy runs said units into you.
>>1614045IMAGINE if we had a historically accurate triangle instead.>Archers/Crossbows counter Pikemen>Pikemen counter Cavalry>Cavalry counters ArchersNo other triangle should exist. Pike line doesn't get countered by any melee infantry, they are inherently held down by their infantry movespeed + no range.Knight still get countered by Monks and Archers by a melee shield unit. Fuck Skirmishers. Maybe give them a charge attack that slowly recharges for one thrown ranged weapon attack.
>>1614536If he doesn't my onagers will kill his shit
>>1614545I think the AoM triangle worked well, albeit with a different economy behind it and archers actually have animation lock in that game.
Retarded Idea I had on my 5 hour drive today>split chinese into Yangtze and Yellow River>both share cho-ku-nu in castle in addition to their UU>Yellow River/Mandarin is defensive/cavalry, and is our normal chinese funky start with some kind of steppe lancer >retains great wall>represents cavalry-based sinified/chinese powers like the wei, tang, song, jin, khitan, liao>Yangtze/Wu is gunpowder/naval, with aoe grenadier UU and unique gunpowder galley line>has rocketry>represents Wu, southern song, mingNow don't give me a (You), I don't desrve it
why is everyone saying archers have no frame delay? according to the wiki the only unit with 0 frame delay is elite janny.
>>1613199>swordsmen can force a fight by just going to the enemy base and be truly threatening with their anti-building bonusThere has never been a single solitary instance of this happening in any recorded game, at any elo.
Armenians are so fucking good and fun. It's the only civ I play right now.
>>1614620Watch more games.
>>1614666Do you fare with pushing siege? Feels like their weakspot in the tech tree
>>1614567And why would he only field trash against someone with swords and onagers?
>>1614620This is the sole reason anyone plays Armenians.
>1614595Those are terrible unmarketable names. The great Chinese dragon needs to remain in its current name, in China.They should just split the civilization in current China, which represents decadence era China that lost to Mongols, and add a different China dynasty from 300-1000 era maybe.
>>1614607The posters here aren't exactly the best and brightest.