why i can't understand this game, i can't win in normal diff, it reachs a point where every single faction declares war on you and you spend the rest of the game defending the territories that you still hasi never had this problem in twRome neither in TWWarhammer 1, where i play in hard easily, but shogun just stomps me?there is a guide or something to understand this game? or i'm being just retarded
how the fuck do you even lose against the AI? Just spearwall and let the entire enemy army commit mass seppuku bro
That's called Realm Divide, and it's a featureWatch your agression and take a pause before acquiring your 20th city
>>1524267>this again 5 katanas beats a 20 stack of yari(unless you use exploits)And that’s on normal. On hard you’re gonna get fucked even harder.
>>1524283yeah I'll take things that never happened for twenty bucks. One samurai sword unit needs to lose at least 40% of its model to take out one ashigaru on spear wall.
>>1524272Is it always the 20th city?>>1524264What fucked me personally was my income crashing as there was nobody to trade with anymore. Yes, should have gone for the oversea trade routes. But what did I know.
>>1524338you learn from your mistakes, and every faction declaring war on you is a feature for getting too powerful. Foreign trade becomes your lifeline in the main campaign because of this, even the vassals you take before realm divide (not after) will betray youIn the fall of the samurai campaign, when realm divide happens everybody splits up based on their allegiance instead, I like that more (imperial/shogunate, but if you're republic you're basically by yourself)
>>1524396>>1524338realm divide is not a problem for me as an Ikko Ikki player because that's the way it's always been since the start
>>1524397same but I'm an Otomo one
>>1524337>what is flanking
>>1524264>it reachs a point where every single faction declares war on you and you spend the rest of the game defending the territories that you still hasHow is this different from TW:W? For all this talk about lack of good and evil in this setting, every campaign always ends up in a huge world war between good and evil.
>>1524264You just learn to prepare for it the second time round. The first time you get pounded because your armies are probably scattered and your borders have more holes than Okubo Toshimichi. Second time round you’ll be better prepared, have your economic and military settlements properly set up, and your armies much more properly distributed because you know exactly what will happen.It’s a bit of a shit way to ensure your endgame isn’t just you mopping up the remaining factions but I think it’s pretty fun to have you temporarily outgunned for the second half and potentially force you to lose a bit of ground and attrition the enemy down instead of outright overwhelming them every single fight.
>>1524475>>1524272 This.If you build up your forts well enough you might be able to stem off the AI, they split their forces on all sieges (for some reason, I know its historical but the general moral buff is needed). So just play wack-a-mole with the AI's units and prioritize.
>>1524264See, in the Nobunaga's Ambition games, they do a similar thing to Realm Divide, but way better. Rather than all the factions randomly declaring war on you, after you reach a certain amount strength, the other factions will form a coalition of clans who temporarily ally with one another to take you down (or get as close as possible) in a certain amount of time, similar to how the rest of Europe did with Napoleon. If they fail, the coalition will automatically break down after enough time has passed. Also, not everyone declares war on you - your vassals and intermarried allies will (usually) stay loyal, and there are independent clans who are neither part of the coalition nor in opposition to it.It also helps that your clan's economy isn't dependent on the volatile temperament of the ai.
>>1524338>Is it always the 20th city?It depends on the win conditions you select at the start. Realm divide triggers earlier if you chose Short or Long campaign instead of Domination.A short campaign is much more difficult because of that.Also the cities of your vassals do count as your cities with respect to the Realm Divide trigger so never make any vassals. They can and will betray you after the Realm Divide.
just play Oda and spam spear ashigaru until you winTakeda is for brainlets
they should have made it faction based like fall of the samurai. sekigahara was basically just that.
>>1524415>the AI is capable of flankingyeah cool story bro
everyone acts like ashigaru are the be all end all especially as oda but in field battles they always rout because of low morale even when they're winning and archers shoot them to pieces. How the fuck do I fix this? In siege battles they're fine and kick ass.
they made shogun 2 good! https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sekigahara-campaign1
>>1524415here faggot. Here's your flanking. Here's your 5 samurai flanking 20 ashigaru.
>>1524530NTA but seriously? Literally 20 ashigaru vs 5 katana samurai. Yeah thats accurate to an actual battle on the campaign.
>>1524533that's what this nigger claim >>1524283 you stupid faggot
>>1524538You're an idiot for not understanding what a hyperbole is.
>>1524541oh no backtracking
>>1524516Don't leave your unarmored peasants under fire and without general influence
>>1524550I wish the game told you how much morale the general's influence adds it's hard to quantify this shit. I kinda like how in warhammer you can see the unit morale bar above their heads on the field.
>>1524264Just spend 50 turns preparing for Realm Divide before triggering it.It's a pretty badly implemented mechanoc but it's some times better than steamrolling the entire mad with no real opposition.FotS made it better.
>>1524583You absolute nigger, you DO.There's literally coloured ribbons above each and every squad banner that tell you exactly how is their morale holding up.In case ypu don't understand it:>long and green = good>short and red = bad
>>1524583Always get>Strategist level 3 for increased movement range and influence radius>Infantry level 1 for the almight Stand and fight abilityAlso if you play on very hard or legendary difficulties always get>Stealthy level 3except for those special generals that have a natural night fighter ability.
>>1525363I would also argue for "cav commander" to unlock that wedge.Very handy for punching holes in enemy lines and erasing their cohesion.
>>1524484yeah thats some good shit. wish i could mod this into the game
>>1524267>broRetard, who doesn't play the game.
>>1525363That's not the problem, the problem is how to get all that xp fast.
>build horde of unflankable cheap spearmen>build horde of high quality archers behind them>Never attackI truly am a tactical genius
>>1524283They really don't. Katana sam is pretty underwhelming in general.
>>1524264>it reachs a point where every single faction declares war on you and you spend the rest of the game defending the territories that you still hasAt one point in the game everyone will turn on you. The realm divide other anons have talked about is a diplomatic penalty applied to every clan (including vassals and allies) once the event triggers and once you capture Kyoto, that keeps increasing until it reaches -200. This means you can keep your good allies for long if you've worked on your alliances, showering them in money and marriage is good for that. Also it does not apply to clans appearing after you've captured Kyoto allowing you to get new allies and trade partners.Knowing this you want to think about how you will expand, some provinces are good to have as chokepoints to let enemy armies die in. Your economy must be able to hold itself without trade. You want a strong navy to counter any invasion (and the AI will definitively invade you with their fleets). You also want to consider keeping some allies if you have multiple fronts just to soak up the invading armies, don't work too much on saving them but work on maintaining their loyalty to you. Also tip : AI enemies will almost never bother going through a rebel province because it's enemy territory to them, sparking rebellions is a good way to close a border, if your monk cannot do it you can try capturing the province, destroy its buildings and raise taxes. Welcome to the best TW.
>>1524264>why i can't understand this game, i can't win in normal diffDo not be afraid of raising multiple armies and outfitting them because the AI isn't going to think twice about their economy, samurai may be superior but ashigaru spam has its advantages (especially if you're Oda)Embrace gunpowder and artillery, especially if you can get it early from bantan trade, artillery may be static but it compensate by being really strong and leveling all the defenses of a castle by themselvesIf you're Chosokabe, just stick to bow, they are the only clan that can reliably blot out the sunAvoid making vassals at any cost, they're backstabbing retards that will drag you down everytimeDon't sack settlements, there is no benefit to that over taking themAs other said, avoid painting the map too fast if you don't want to trigger a coalition against youAnd finally, play into the strengths of the clan you chose, don't be a retard playing takeda for the color scheme and not for their cavalry bonuses
>>1524498I'm not familiar with those games, maybe because I'm a bit of a brainlet. I like games with simple and straightforward gameplay, like Planet Ride or Pixel Remaster, that really give me that "I'll just keep coming back" feeling.
>>1525956Oh a retard that’s never played the gameThanks for letting us know to put your opinion in the trash
>>1525956>don't be a retard playing takeda for the color schemeBut I like their colour scheme.
>>1524264>Realm Divide>The entire realm unites to fuck you overFunnily enough, the name makes more sense in FotS.
I have figured how to hold my fronts on land and how to defend and attack well.but how the fuck do i build a reliable navy and prevent invasions that fuck over all my plans?i try to keep a fleet on each side of the land but they still slip through and get a scary stack on some faraway land
>master weaponsmith for samurai melees>master armourer for ashigaru, monks and samurai archers>great shrine for nobodyWhat about cavalry? Is it better to build it in horse breeder province or smithing one?
>>1527653Research the tech that gives you fire arrows, and recruit 2 stacks of bow kobayas on each side.When attacking in naval, approach enemy from the side and take boats one by one. The AI doesn't start reacting until you're in firing range.
>>1527682I pick one Craft and one Smith province for all my units.You can't build more than one copy of the highest tier buildings anyway. Ideally two close to each other. There are a few pairs in the map (Bizen + Hoki, Kaga + Echizen, Sagami + Hitachi). In the craft province I get Master Bowmaker in the craft slot and>Hunting Lodge>Legendary Kyudo School>Temple Complex (If Buddhist)>Arsenal>Bajutsu Master Dojo>Church (If Christian)in this order in the building slots.In the smith province I get the Master Armourer in the smith slot and>Armoury>Legendary Kenjutsu School>Legendary Sojutsu School>Legendary Bajutsu School>Famous Temple/Cathedralin this order in the building slots. With Ikko Ikki I switch the priority of temple with the kenjutsu school since they have the sword ashigaru.
>>1527653Keep 2 fleets on each side1 for blocking off the route closest to shore.2nd behind it, to pursue and kill anyone who slips through
>>1525734Farm rebellions, keep your settlements unhappy and get free xp that way.
>>1524264>This shitpost once more
I dislike how half the game is spamming end turn till you get your doomstacks going then fighting one big Army and auto resolving left and right.
Are basically all the mods on the workshop outdated and broken or something? I'm trying this game for the first time and I wanted to try some after my first few games and they just don't work.
>>1530877The warhammer thread is somewhere else.
>>1531997You need to have the right version of the game for each mod.
>>1530877If only you could instead bring the army you have at the moment and fight an actual battle using your forces, rather than waiting for an auto-resolve stack to accumulate... oh wait a minute!>>1531997>Steamzoomer can't into moddingColour me surprised
>>1524264I started from 0 with this game too. The things that helped me were>recruit lots of yari ashigaru>use missile superiority to force the enemy to charge into your yari spear wall>don't garrison units unless you really need to>trade nodes are good>have one or a few recruitment provinces and otherwise just build markets>food surplus helps a lot economically>with certain resources (e.g. warhorses) you can get huge concessions from other clans for trade deals. You can also sometimes sell access your territory for good money>stand and fight is really good for your generals>check your fame meter and pause a little before realm divide. Prepare for a prolonged economic before triggering it I'm sure these aren't optimal strategies but they helped me a lot. Good luck and have fun OP.
>>1533229>food surplus helps a lot economicallySome people ran the numbers and it doesn't actually do much. Takes way longer than the duration of even the longest campaign to pay off decently.
>>1533239I stand corrected. I still find farms are useful around realm divide because the income is much more stable than trade agreements or trade nodes.>>1533229Also, for battles>use high terrain whenever you can>keep your general behind lines for rallying and stand and fight. Don't try to make him a fighting unit except in extreme circumstances>have one or two cavalry units to run down fleeing troops. If the battle ends in a mass rout, use your general for this too>yari cav are extremely good but you need to learn how to use them>seiges heavily favour the defender. Missile troops are extremely good on the walls. It can be good to put yari below to keep the approaching troops occupied and in clear sight of your bow troops on the wall
>>1524583Warhammer replaces the game for UI spam. S2 is from before CA went completely to shit and had to actually produce games with gameplay.
hows that ulta realistic mod with the new strongholds and provinces?
>>1525956>bantanlmao>Don't sack settlements, there is no benefit to that over taking themDunno if I have brain damage, but going nuts with the sacking is the only way I managed to win on legendary. The dishonor penalty caps at -3, and you can build an army and drop it off in your enemy's rear, farming infinite money while hurting your enemy.>>1524264Conquering your way to one of the ends of Japan makes it easier to concentrate your forces.
>>1533374The best way to farm honor is to find an enemy army that doesn't have mounted units, detach your general from your army, put him in front of the enemy army and bait them into attacking you.Then just ride in circles around them until the battle ends and enjoy your Sun Tzu approved wictory, without a single drop of blood.
>>1524264You know what, it's pretty hard to conquer all of Japan, don't feel bad that you can't do it, some of the greatest warlords in History also tried and failed. Uesugi Kenshin, Takeda Shingen, Oda Nobunaga, these guys are legendary Generals, guys who won 20-30 battles apiece, pitched battles, thousands on each side. Even they failed to conquer this relatively tiny archipelago. You are being way too hard on yourself, man. Just try, try again. You just need to stop short of Realm Divide and turtle up for a long time to get ready. Explode with multiple cheap fleets and armies, send armies out in groups that can converge together against enemy armies and strongholds. Mostly you need a massive treasury built up to sustain insane spending all of this entails. Focus on your economy from the beginning, it will pay dividends at every stage of the game.
>>1533229Another tip is that metsuke give a good 20% to your tax rate (since you dont get 100% of the listed tax value), as well as increased growth in the city, so park them on your high value provinces with fertile rice fields or gold mines
>>1536799are metsuke bugged or something? When I put them in a city I don't see my turn income go up at all.
>>1524264Rofllmao bait thread. I hated realm divide too but irl the emperor would be modeled and would shut you down at your first province.
>>1524533On easy difficulty this exact battle is very likely. Also retards make anything possible obviously.
Is there a mod for this game that gets rid of katana samurai and makes the roster more like the first game?
>>1524283Using strategy is an exploit?
>>1537222They only show up on next turn.But trust me, each dot in "town supervision" gives you 5% more tax from province. Ghis is a lot
Someone explain to me how the fuck could a Kabunakama POSSIBLY pay off.
>>1524283Against the AI that don't know how to use Yari Wall, probably.
>>1525734Never "end battle", ever. Always continue, and then send your general in to mow down routing soldiers for free EXP.
>>1537484Even if you don't use yari wall you can win just by surrounding them (which the AI is also incapable of half the time).
>my one ally after realm divide being militarily incompetent and getting BTFO by just one enemy clan
>>1524264I have never struggled for a single moment in a single TW game that i have played. The only time i have ever lost a battle is when i have 5 units against 20 etc. The AI is so bad, programmed exactly the same as strategy games were 20 years ago. If you have any experience with how AI behaves and how to exploit/manage them there is 0 challenge. You deploy your army, wait for the ai to come to you, and then you just win, EVERY FUCKING BATTLE. no maneuvering, 0 tactics, just unit composition decides the battle. GAY
>>1537561Whoa get a load of Aurelian here who beat WRE Attila without losing a single battle
>>1537487True, with that many units against that few, you can essentially auto win just by ordering your units to move into an encirclement then put it on max speed and wait.
>>1537561Have you already increased the difficulty?
>>1537561>you deploy your army, wait for the ai to come to youlol you never played a single TW game, AI only "comes to you" if you initiate the battle, else they just camp and wait for you to come to them.
>>1537572Dunno about the others, but in S2 if you have ranged superiority they absolutely will come to you (even if it'd be better for them to eat a few magonel/armstrong gun/whatever rounds than give up their position).
>>1524264Because you actually need tactics to win battles. You can't just bring your Super Elite Ultra Gaurd TroopsTM that decimate the enemy.
>>1525734Let the rest of enemy army flee after you beat them>>1537485 this anon is an idiot. He thinks general skilltree exp has anything to do with general bodyguard exp (it does not)The only way to level up your general is to win battles (15xp per battle). If you let a bunch of enemies flee, you can fight them again and win another battle.
>>1537572You never played S2, did you?It's yhe other way around.The AI comes to you if you they initiated and stands still if you initiated.But they will come to you, even when they're on defensive, if you have artillery
Is there any reason FOTS dropped every single average fertility province to meagre?
>>1533239It's a mixed bag, depending entirely on which side of Japan are you on. Are you north? Food surplus is good. Are you south? Food surplus is useless. If you could magically teleport to southern trade nodes in less than 3 turns regardless of your starting location, food surplus would be useless. But the further away from those, the more it does for you.
>>1533344>keep your general behind lines for rallying and stand and fight. Don't try to make him a fighting unit except in extreme circumstancesCounterpoint: if you have horse and especialy maxed-out armour bonus, general is super-handy as a combat unit. The trick is to know how and when to strike, rather than "charge and forget".>seiges heavily favour the defenderBring either European cannon, rockets or combat ninja. There, the siege turned into a joke
>>1537222Wait a turn. Metsuke bonus is worth save-scumming to make sure he gets maximum possible bonuses to town supervision. If he doesn't have a starting bonus, reload and recruit a new one, until you get one. Something similar applies to geisha in FotS, where her main role is economic bonus, rather than any sort of assassin bullshit or seducing gaijin agents.
>>1524415>What is flankingYeah, it's going to go sooo great for 5 units trying to outflank 20, retard
>>1524541>I was only pretending to be retardedNah, you're a retard all right
>>1537773The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for Nippon....
>>1537790>>1537447is it worth stacking multiple metsuke on a high income province?
>>1537977No. Their effect is diminished if you stack more than one.
>>1537977I'm pretty sure they don't stack if they are in the same province. Put 5 Metsuke on your 5 richest provinces.
is it worth getting mangonels just to force the enemy to attack you even on offense?
>>1538048Just get Fire Rockets. They are actually good.
>>1538048Depends on your playstyle. I find it easier to break AI and trick it into attacking me one unit by one through splitting my army and baititng it with archers or cavalry. But corner camping is powerful enough on its own.
Unchecked all the DLCs and now the game has an acceptable unit roster (except for katana samurai).
Era toho is better than this vincel shit
>>1538210>comparing text-based waifushit to a fully 3D strategy game???
>>1537970I'd get if they removed average fertility entirely but there is one province that has it and it's one of the new provinces too.
Just won my first Shogun 2 campaign as the shimazu (which now looking at some videos on Shogun 2 is apparently considered the noob friendly clan). I won by the year 1560 and could have conquered all of Japan by 1565 most likely.It was far easier than I thought it would. I heard that realm divide was this insane mechanic that would fuck me up. I saw people calling it extremely unfair and all. I didn't really care much about it. Every Total War has a mechanic in which once you get big enough every AI nation hates you.The real scary endgame is having to fight the Huns in Attila. Realm divide is nothing compared to seeing those Hun doomstacks appearing.Shogun 2 fags deserve the rope.Game is still great btw, next time I'm playing as the Oda.
Morale in this game goes so unexplained, you can never make decisions because it always differes from generals leadership, unit lvl, generals buffs, auras, the stat always comes down to luck, their guys suddenly broke up, nice luck! your broke out of nowhere, too bad! It barely helps that your units tooltip says 'morales a bit jiggly hehe' or 'wavering' that doesn't help a lot.
Cavalry only runs in this game are fucking torture.
>>1538516>ow why does it hurt when I punch myself in the face
>>1538514Mad because bad
>>1524283why are shogun babies such faggots in denial?
>>1538400Did you play normal difficulty or something?>>1538516Cavalry is definitely underpowered in combat, I've never found a use for it other than cheesing AI.
>>1538400Now play on Hard difficulty (Very Hard is the same but the game makes the saves for you, which I personally find annoying), with a different clan (the Oda are the easiest clan to play; e.g. cheap & better morale ashigaru, you can get Blessing of Amateratsu consistently on turn 2, so on) and without cheesing the A.I. on the battle map
>>1539037Cav is fucking strong. Morale shock + instant damage + running down fleeing troops make battles easier. Yes they require micro. Yes everyone has a billion spears Yes they struggle against samurai They're still worth it. Just two, three dudes. Just the ability to snipe lords is huge, and turn indecisive victories into total slaughter for the enemy is huge. Biggest thing is to never let them stay in combat, always charge engaged enemies first, and squishy archers if you need to engage a foe directly 1-1. If you got super souped up yari cav with extra charge bonus, or fire cav or something, then they will break ashigaru on the charge unsupported, which is huge.
>>1539169>super souped up yari cav with extra charge bonus, or fire cav or something, then they will break ashigaru on the charge unsupported,HmmTime to try this out
>>1538514it's pretty self evident after youve played the game a little bit. morale regens like other stats and mainly varies based on unit deaths/fight status. a variety of factors such as being outflanked, charged (because charge kills a slew of units rapidly) or losing the general apply immediate maluses. And of course better units have better morale.Stick a yari wall in a good spot (slow deaths low morale) or nagi sami (tough and high morale) in front and hit the unit in the back with a high charge bonus (any cav, yari sam or no dachi) and they will break almost instantly
>>1524397>>1524399Christian Hattori over here
>>1539182I will say that any unit that has been buff maxxed (encampment + relevant resource building) is obscenely strong in their specialized role Date no dachi with full attack bonus from smith is a classic example. Same with takeda cav, which you also get at close to max rank due to all tech buffs you accumulate. Try stuff out. Matchlock samurai with +accuracy are also obscene.
>>1539037You've never played the game. Cavalry is essential if you plan on not wasting 90% of your turns chasing down beaten armies.
>>1525734Like >>1537697 unit experience and general experience have not relation to one another. The only way to gain xp is through fighting battles. Victories give 10xp, losses 3xp and your daimyo gets an addition +5 for victories.It's worth noting that only the first general in a stack gets the xp but any reinforcing general also gets xp, although unlike in 1.0 it is a reduced amount.Letting the enemy retreat from the battlefield allows you to easily farm another win.Usually losing the 2nd battle would forcibly wipe them but iirc it doesn't happen if their general gets killed. The counter is for the general and not the army.
>>1539414Beaten armies are not a threat. Dedicating units to cleaning that up is retarded.
>>1539667Cavalry have many benefits for using them. 2x light cav in the early game will help you kill enemy generals, shape the army you just beat to make it more manageable (killing archers), cause chain routs, run down fleeing units etc
>>1539696No they don't. They're shit.
>>1539414Usually if you deliver a crushing enough defeat the army just gets destroyed entirely... I've never known the exact mechanics for when it decides to completely wipe the army vs. leave a battered remnant force, but I've never had serious issues with it in the campaign.In fact I think at the higher difficulty levels it is even less of a problem, since the AI has such a morale buff, it fights way closer to the last man.
>>1539699I assure you 2x light cav give better return on investment than 2x yari ashigaru
>>1539699>shitting on light cavWtf? Next you're telling me scout equites are worthless in attila too.S2TW's light cav are the yari ashigaru of the cavalry. They fuck up other mounted units and have insane utility.
>>1524283they don't, yari will win even on legend, I won a campaign this way. As long as your general is actually near the fighting, they might as well have unbreakable. The only actual threat are ranged units, and that's just a matter of whether you run out of men before they run out of arrows.
>>1539742Having some katana samurai works wonders for rolling up flanks, but so does LIGHT CAV >>1539710You're a mongoloid and probably can't play the game. At least post your reasons for disliking cav to restore some semblance of dignity to your retard self
>>1539733This thread is just another example that this board sucks at the game. They can't be helped
Rise of the Samurai is actually good
>>1540736Sell us on it
>>1540736I wasn't impressed when I played it back in the day. Even though it's alt-history, Mongol Invasion was way cooler.
>>1540433yeah its really obvious with stuff like the gook click meme that people are just bad and coping.>I don't even like playing sc mpno seethe replies pls
>cavtard replying to himself
>>1538083>Just get Fire Rockets. They are actually good.I just tried a run where I went for these. It takes so damn long to get them, is it really worth it?
>>1540839The SOVL of the Gempei war, which most people know little about, a period much different from the samurai ruled Japan we all know and love.A lot of people dislike the crappy quality of units and the small unit sizes, but it really adds to the atmosphere of primitive combat of pre-Shogunate Japan. In that sense, battles in Rise of the Samurai are short and snappy, and are characterized by massed infantry charges that win or lose through chained routs. Battles are mainly about positioning and pure tactical acumen.The allegiance mechanic is much more fleshed out than religion in vanilla Shogun 2 and it actually allows you to conquer territory "diplomatically".Faction balance is a tad out of whack, with the Kamakura Minamoto being amazing, the Fukuhara Taira being also really good, and everybody else being subpar. But then again, balance was also terrible in the vanilla Shogun 2 campaign.Overall it's certainly the little brother of Fall of the Samurai, just like The Last Roman is the little brother of Age of Charlemagne in Attila, but the campaign retains everything great about Shogun 2 in an underrated scenario.
From my own experience and testing, I have found out the following, regarding the RotS meta:The budo tech tree and buildings are separated in Koryu and Bushi chains.Koryu gives you naginata infantry, bowmen and naginata cavalry. There's a straight upgrade path from levy to attendants and warrior monks. Each one is an improvement from the previous one, but more expensive.Bushi gives you sword attendants, foot samurai and mounted samurai. The samurai combine ranged and melee.Attendants are twice as expensive as levies, warrior monks/samurai are three times as expensive.From testing, I have found that (always using equivalent upkeep total):1. Naginata units always beat the equivalent archer unit. Thus, you should prioritize melee over ranged.2. Bow levy are the best ranged unit, beating all others, even foot samurai.3. Naginata levy beat naginata attendants, but lose against naginata warrior monks due to war cry.4. Foot samurai beat all naginata units, except naginata warrior monks due to war cry.5. Sword attendants beat all naginata units and even beat foot samurai, using banzai. They are weaker to cavalry than naginata units but can still defeat it.6. Naginata cavalry beats mounted samurai.This means that the bushi chain is superior to the koryu chain.The Kamakura Minamoto, starting with a smith and with a bonus to archers and decreased upkeep for samurai can get incredibly strong with late game armies of sword attendants and foot samurai.The Fukuhara Taira, on the other hand, should combine naginata warrior monks with extra armour and decreased upkeep, with bow levy and naginata cavalry.
>>1541075>But then again, balance was also terrible in the vanilla Shogun 2 campaign.Only when they started adding DLCs. At least in Shogun 2 you can play without them instead of Attila where you're stuck with Slavs and their magical poison bows.
>>1541082Oda, Shimazu and Takeda were always superior to the Mori and Tokugawa.
>samuraiKEKS getting uppity againRemember your place.
Who the fuck at CA designed the Tokugawa?They really have nothing going for them.>+2% success chance for metsuke actionsmeh>+10 diplomatic relationshipslmao>improved kisho ninjaExtremely situational unit, but even then that trait is broken and their kisho ninja are worse than average (CA most definitely didn't even test this).>dogshit starting positionThis is the clan that historically won the Sengoku Jidai and became shoguns, it just seems like CA didn't care and made them at the last minute.If they simply didn't know what bonus to give them, they could have given them superior spear units (yari ashigaru, yari samurai, naginata samurai and naginata warrior monks).
>>1541118Given the nature of Ieyasu's rise to power I can see why they'd want to emphasize non-military bonuses, but they really should have tried to make those bonuses good, and also not reliant on the game's godawful diplomacy system.
If you turn off the Sengoku Jidai unit pack, will units from it appear in AI factions?
>>1541118Nigga, Ieyasu only won because Nobunaga ruthlessness finally catched up to him ("what do you mean I can't just abuse people without consequences forever?") and because his Monkey successor suddenly died after just wasting away his most loyal troops in his retarded Korean invasion (while his heir was a child). In summary, the bitch got lucky.
>>1539701Units with fewer than 15% remaining soldiers disappear into the ether (except for the general unit obviously).
>>1541118I think the +10 to relations is the best bonus they have. There's a lot of factors in Shogun deciding when a clan will declare war, but the bonus does seem to make it less likely.
What's the most fun FotS clan to play as?
>>1541457Tosa>on an island, so safe-ish start>bonus to ships>close to Kyoto>riflemen go brrrr
>>1541301None of this is excuse for the faction having shit and outright broken design.>>1541296Yes I can understand this, but they absolutely fucked it up.
>>1541301>he just got lucky
>>1541006You can guns fast if you rush bushido tech. Its not *that* hard if you're expansive as fuck. Problem is eco will suck but those matchlock garrisons bro>>1541102Ashigaru are maybe better on paper but samurai are still really fucking strong and can easily chew through hordes of ashigaru.
>>1541118The starting position isn't so bad. It's close to provinces with fertile soil and other good bonuses and you don't have to worry about one flank at all for a while.
>>1541118You're also a vassal of the Imagawa and declaring war counts as breaking a treaty, cancelling any diplo bonus you had
>>1541810>Ashigaru are maybe better on paperThey are also better in actual gameplay
>>1541490I want fun, not necessarily easiest.
>>1541810>Ashigaru are better on paperThe practice is, while a Samurai may be better, if I bring Samurai with no Ashigaru support I'll have no one to stop the enemy from just surrounding Samurai, and uparmored ashigaru can do relatively decently at stalling out Samurai until numbers begin to tell.Samurai, objectively, are better at what they specialize at in practice.Yari Samurai are the fastest foot unit with some armor behind it.Bow Samurai are superior shooters and can conduct themselves in an engagement afterward.Katana are best all around fighters assuming they aren't slammed into a spearwall head first or outflanked.Naginata Samurai are a near perfect anvil, so long as they don't get outflanked.
>>1524283when I first started playing Shogun 2 one of my provinces with like 5 yari was getting sieged down by a full stack, I didn't lose a single unit
>>1541971they were probably high level veterans and the enemy lacked archers. plus you get a free samurai retainer which is 3x more useful than yari. on top of all that you get the fight to the death bonus. I think most people praising yari are misinterpreting vets being good for the actual unit plus a bit of spearwall exploitation vs the easy mode AI being too dumb to use flanks or archers and often failing with its general. Spear wall gives defensive bonuses which cancel out charge bonuses (mostly) and increase ashi survivability but their damage output is still pissweak so it evens out, the real benefit is that it can tie up stronger units and prevent morale shock from rapid peasant genocide. They still lose, though they are cost effective:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBvrqA08YLQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQvaCQw6KRQOverall the game is so piss easy you can practically do whatever strat you want in singleplayer, only veteran multiplayer opinions really matter desu.
Peasant with stick < samurai with sword < peasants with sticks
>>1541849not really when getting hit with a few arrows even on gold armor will make them pee themselves from low morale
>>1542409ashigaru players have yari wallssamurai players have cope walls
>>1542409If you want a wall that can trade, you gotta spend for Naginata homies.
>>1542948strange reply considering the post just showed you yari walls lose anyway, almost like you're coping nuberino
So after CA went and added in their “new launcher”, my copy of shogun 2 is messed up, there’s an old mod that is perpetually active no matter what I do short of deleting it’s data files and now I can’t activate new mods, any fix for this?
>>1543046check your appdata for s2 content and remove it
>>1543014Bro nobody genuinely claims that ashigaru are better than samurai man per man, the point is that ashigaru are cost effective.Sure, you can make armies composed entirely of samurai and/or warrior monks but you could get a very similar mileage replacing most of the frontline with yari ashigaru for a way cheaper upkeep cost.Katana samurai beat an equal number of yari ashigaru, but they can't beat four times as many.
>>1543108Isn't that what has been largely proposed in this thread?>yari ashigaru for holding units in place>samurai for actually destroying unitsAlso>Katana samurai beat an equal number of yari ashigaru, but they can't beat four times as many.In SP this more or less works if you commit to it, but it leaves you without any real tactical mobility because yari ashigaru can spear wall and little else. And even then it only works if you manage to neutralize the enemy's archers in some way. Against another player, it's really easily countered.
>>1543142>In SP this more or less works if you commit to it, but it leaves you without any real tactical mobility because yari ashigaru can spear wall and little else.Utter nonsense. It is literally easier to spam ashigaru than to try to make samurai work. People struggle to beat campaigns until someone tells them they can just spam ashigaru and then they win with ease.
>>1543108Why are you just repeating stuff from my post. The point is ashi spam works because you're fighting a retarded AI and because it is retarded pretty much any other tactic works against it too, ashi spam is just the lowest common denominator of braindead tactics anyone can cheese it with. Go in multiplayer and see how your yari wall camping works and then tell me about sami cope lel
>>1543164Nobody will ever play multiplayer no matter how much you cry.
>>1543169It's fine with me I played it when it was half decent and had my fun.
>>1543169Shogun 2 multiplayer was the peak of total war multiplayer.Customizable units and colors, naming veterans and leveling them up for different situations Don’t know why the got away from that it added a lot of soul and flavor. The needing to win a battle on a certain dojo to unlock a certain unit was a little odd of a choice but the rest of it was fantastic.
>>1543208>Why they got away from it.TCA was starting its decline after Shogun 2.
>>1543164>people in multiplayer don't use ashigaru unitsNigger are you sure you have played Shogun 2 multiplayer?
>>1543300>are you sure you have played Shogun 2 multiplayer?yes which is why I didnt say this:>>people in multiplayer don't use ashigaru unitsare you sure you learned english?
>>1543349You said that ashigaru spam only works against ai and doesnt work on multi lmao dont backpedal so blatantly
The original post that started that convo claimed that 5 katana samurai beat 20 yari ashigaru and samurai fags are yet to show how that would ever happen
>>1543355go quote post where I said that esl-friendoprotip you can even beat pure ashi spam with just cav, kat cav and a terror gen and they insta break even rallied. but more my point was yari walling will just be countered by archers in multiplayer.
>>1543415>I win the argument because everyone is beholden to my strawman hyperbole one guy said??? also 5 can probably beat 20 in siege if theyre all 0 vet and no gens. you might need to do some meat grinder charge micro tho
>>1541118desu bonused units are the worst trait, when the 'improved' unit isn't so remarkably different from the original.
>>1543453See >>1543164Yari wall isnt counterd by archers because youll have your own archers and cav
>>1543485that isnt how you quote post anon. if you have your own archers and cav then you aren't ashi (yari) spamming and tactics depend on the details of the situation
>>1543300>people in multiplayer don't use Ashigaru unitsNo matter what the person said to you in their reply, they absolutely have never played Shogun 2 MP.
>>1543355If a player loses against yari wall spam, they're just retarded. So this board, essentially.
>>1543645>No matter what the person said to you in their replywhat if i told you, you are as dumb as he is illiterate?
OP do you have a brain function deficiency?
>>1544156in my current game, I got bored and decided to turtle up and watch what the last 3 remaining factions would do without me.4 provinces have fallen to christian rebels, and 5 minor clans have resurfaced and retaken territory.The strongest clan when I began to turtle is now the weakest, eaten from the inside.
>>1545125For whatever reason, if I play in Eastern Japan, one of the christian daimyo always becomes the dominant power in the west. Adds a bit of fun to the game since winning and btfoing christoids the whole way is pretty great, but still weird how consistent it is.
Tell me about Mori. How useful are ships in the game (besides sniping trade nodes)
>>1546850They are ok for preventing invasions (doing some of your own) or for raiding ports. All of those are relatively limited in value but naval battles are just neat so who cares.
>>1546850You spam siege tower bune until you dominate the seas, you don't need to be Mori to dominate doing that alone. Trade nodes are nice but kind of underwhelming mostly because by late game you have no one to trade with.
There's finally a full Europe map in Shogun 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLSivY3xYXw
>>1546850I have literally never built a ship in all the campaigns I've finished. It's a waste of money.
>>1546917Keeping a navy around is cheaper than wasting time sending troops to deal with naval invasions.
>>1546918Never had that problem.
>>1546919You've never had the AI move armies by sea?
>>1546921Pretty much. At least I don't remember it ever being an issue. Not even during Realm Divide.
>>1546923That's funny, I see it pretty regularly. I wonder what makes the difference.
>>1546867This, except that trade nodes are free money for any southern clan. It's worth having a couple stacks of trade ships with some protection. Otherwise just follow the advice of >>1546917
>trade nodesNot actually a good deal.
>>1546942>The profit from each trade node, when they are filled with trade ships, are therefore:>Cotton: 2819 koku/seasonSilk: 3540 koku/seasonIncense: 2663 koku/season (two in total)Warhorse: 846 koku/seasonIron: 1183 koku/season>Trade Ship Upkeep on Leg: 58 koku or 580 for 10 shipsIt's ok if you're already nearby for early - mid game. Iirc, Shimazu has the easiest time establishing a trade node with minimal investment.
>trade nodes badThe absolute state of the advice you can expect from /vst/.
BUY HIGH SELL LOW
>>1547226Truth hurts, doesn't it, samuraitard?
>>1547234>samuraitardMeds, I'm a warrior monk type of lad
>>1547319Based, carry on then
>>1546915Hojo goes to paris bitches.
>>1546915>Britain has as many cities as half as Indiawhy
>>1546850naval combat is painfully bad as is the AI for it. I always autoresolve and I'd rather never build ships but the trade route money is just too good. when your ports get sieged you lose so much dosh
>>1549256If the AI halfway decent and the unit balance improved naval combat would be pretty good. I really enjoy how naval combat in Shogun II feels so different from land combat.
>>1549272the other problem is it takes so god damn long and it's so tedious even with speed up
>>1541457I'm a fan of Aizu for shogunate and Choshu for Imperial. Saga is also a solid pick it you want to go heavy on navy.
>>1541457For the historical LARP aspect "canon" is Aizu and Satsuma, but for me, it's Choshu>Kiheitai are probably the best midgame unit, nearly guard infantry stats for nearly line infantry prices>North Kyushu is probably the best region to control in the whole game>bonus to looting which is quite OP in FotS>nice color>don't have to be S*tsuma barbarian
>>1524264Shogun 2 is possibly the worst Total War game out of all of them, except for that Mycenean based one they made for the Epic Game Store.Aside from the lack of faction unit variety, sieges were a joke, ship battles were a joke, battles are just rock-paper-scissors garbage where soldiers almost instantly route from getting charged or flanked, and the AI cheats like a mother-fucker, spawning blatantly obvious deathstacks right in-fucking-front of you, more obviously than any other Total War I've played. Don't even get me started on the absolute shit-show of multiplayer, which is completely broken since you need to win battles to unlock units, so veterans will have the advantage over you, permanently, since they have most if not all units already unlocked, and god help you if you're fighting someone with the gun DLC, since you just flat-out lose then.
>>1549510>Aside from the lack of faction unit variety,immediately outed as a retard, didn't bother reading the restif anything shogun 2 shouldn't even have given factions statistic bonuses, only costs like the first game
>>1549510dont really disagree but I havent played the other total wars enough to compare because the interfaces are too obtuse (no free camera for example) after starting with shogun 2. Guns in general make multiplayer unfun because they can be exploited in a few ways not the least of which is the lack of FF. mounted gunners (the dlc ones) were op as shit but at least they cost a lot. Fighting vets wasnt that big a deal though, the increased costs generally werent worth it for your noncore units (some gimmicks aside) so even with vet options you'd be selecting mostly 0 vet units
>>1549516Nah faction bonuses are good so that every army doesnt feel the same. Eventually the discounts you receive are pretty negligible, it's the extra powerful units and unique units that make a faction fun.
Any good mods or mod packs for Shogun 2?
>>1550287Naval rebalance mod>larger zone of control for ships>campaign move range longer for sailing ships>recruitable wako ships with their own stats>buildable black ship>unique buddist nanban ship>arrow tower bune>ships can rally after routing>ships actually sink if hit with enough firepower>burning oil catapult ship>wind actually matters>boarding is not only fun but a viable tactic now
>>1550316I have the naval combat so I suppose I can add that. Any good overhaul mods? Is Radiolus good?
>>1550316>buildable black ship>buddhist nanban shipThat's retarded
>>1550320The one I use is "S2TW Naval Mod v.1 - Overhaul, Tweaks, and Unit Pack" by Yogi>>1550356>buddist nanban shipIt's a unique admiral ship that requires top research and has enough lore behind it to make it stick.
>>1524494Making vassals after RD triggers is okay, though.
>>1541301You don't know shit about history.
>>1524264>Can't win Shogun 2 on normal difficultyOH NO NO NO NO NO NO
>>1524264>it reachs a point where every single faction declares war on you and you spend the rest of the game defending the territories that you still hasPlay as Ikko Ikki, the game is that way from the start. Problem solved!
>>1549516>Faggot cunt reported my postLmao, now where was I? Oh, yes, as I was saying:>immediately outed as a retard, didn't bother reading the restImmediately outed as a retard, didn't bother reading the rest of your post. a·side - away from one's thought or consideration Re-read my post like someone who isn't a braindead sub-100 IQ savage and then respond to me when you understand what I wrote, you mongrel.
>>1549765If you don't want every army to feel the same, recruit different armies. In Shogun II you can recruit every kind of army there is, since factions generally have access to the whole roster. This is superior to the Warhammer model, where many factions like Brettonia and the Dwarfs are overly specialized, so you have less variety in one campaign.Also,>it's the extra powerful units and unique units that make a faction fun.If a faction isn't fun with it's basic units, the game is shit.
>>1552844>If you don't want every army to feel the same, recruit different armies. In Shogun II you can recruit every kind of army there is, since factions generally have access to the whole roster. This is superior to the Warhammer model, where many factions like Brettonia and the Dwarfs are overly specialized, so you have less variety in one campaign.Mmmm, no. You see, the fact of the matter is that players, over time, optimize their strategies. There's no reason to build a different type of army if your one type consistently is winning battles for you, other than to experiment or artificially challenge yourself. If you get a faction with different units that appeal to wholly different playstyles, it offers a completely new way to build armies and strategize in the game.For the record though, Dwarfs are fairly versatile. Bretonnia are versatile in the sense that they have a lot of different cavalry builds. They have flying units, lancers, shock cavalry, heavy melee cavalry, mounted archers, and very powerful hero cav units.A better example would have been Beastmen, who are still rather one-note. Even considering that though, they are part of a whole - IE the game - rather than selectively by themselves, so they contribute to the variety of the gamein general, overall making Warhammer the superior model since it allows far more build variety based both on your faction of choice, and your unit choice within each faction.
>>1552844Faction bonuses make different strategies viable.Cavalry in Shogun 2 has a relatively minor role but when you play as the Takeda you can focus more on cavalry and get amazing results.Sure, you can do everything as any faction (and that's good), but some factions being slightly better at some things allows for more variety.
>>1524264literally yari ashigaru spear wall and win the game >>1524283you never played the game
>>1546915pike and musket or empire era?
>>1553257There's not a complete mod yet, just a map for other projects to use.
>>1549510>Aside from the lack of faction unit varietyif anything they should have more tight roosters
>>1553259that is shame
>>1553264yeah, but at least it's progress. Hopefully there's a team picking it up.
>>1553263what have you been doing on the farm mr freudian slip
Playing pro shogunate faction and shitting on enemy with traditional units.Bow samurai and wild charges beat any modernized army.
>>1553297>modern artilleryOpinion discarded
>>1553318it was taken from enemy and thus legal to use against themand sure artillery is quite powerful but archers are more deadly so far and can shoot from behind my charging troopers
>>1549510>>1549765>>1552999>This is your brain on TW: Warhammert. fa/tg/uy>>1553153So which one is it: the faction bonuses are insignificant or they allow different strategies? Because you can't have both.Also: Takeda bonuses are predominately to fielding slightly cheaper cavalry, every other part of their faction bonus IS insignificant. You get more from having a horse province with mid-tier set of buildings, than you will ever get from their faction bonus.Have you even played the game you are trying to bitch about?
>>1553347I've never played any TW game that came after Attila.>So which one is it: the faction bonuses are insignificant or they allow different strategies?They strike a good balance of where they are good but not overwhelming, thus incentivizing a particular dynamic while not dictating your entire playstyle.>Also: Takeda bonuses are predominately to fielding slightly cheaper cavalry, every other part of their faction bonus IS insignificant.Takeda yari cav has, when compared to regular yari cav>20% more morale>60% more attack>100% more defence>20% more chargeThat's not insignificant lol, that means that, even with equal numbers, your cav will always win the engagement pretty easily. It means that to win a cav duel against the Takeda you need numerical superiority, which is harder to achieve due to Takeda cav being cheaper. Both bonus synergize well while not pigeonholing the Takeda into being a cavalry only faction.Also imagine thinking that Takeda fire cav is insignificant lmao>inb4 that's a unique unit not a bonusSame difference, exclusive access to a great unit might as well be considered a bonus.
DESU bros I am disappointed in Shogun 2. I used to post Shogun 1 > shogun 2 meme but hell, I tried actually Shogun 2 and its real. I wanted to have fun but none was found
>>1550316>buildable black ship>unique buddist nanban shipIs there a version without these two?
>>1554307I feel the same way.
>>1554544Just don't build them if you don't like it.Or edit the mod files (literally doable in notepad)
>>1552999Your argument that S2 players play the same way because "optimising" is pretty retarded if you think warhammer is a good example. In warhammer the optimal strategy is doomstacking, the more your army resembles a doomstack the better it is; the majority of the roster is (in single player) just objectively inferior to your best units because of their opportunity cost. If you don't get that you're just playing with your warhammer toys on kiddy difficulty.Also, Bretonnia and dwarves are not versatile lol.
>>1553575>I've never played any TW gameftfy
>>1553575Also>>20% more morale>>60% more attack>>100% more defence>>20% more charge>That's not insignificant lolThat's insignificant as hell. Because it doesn't matter how big is the percentage, if the baseline is 1, you dumb retard. Oh wow, the yari cavalry has now TWO defense! What a sweeping change!You don't even know what those values do in combat, but you masturbate to them anyway, befitting someone who didn't play the game, but autistically binged the wikia.>b-but they can be stackedYeah, and a +1 defense is fucking nothing. There is a reason people build camp upgrades to get them with proper province specialty: otherwise the +2 bonuses of the camp upgrades are laughably weak and not even worth the money spent, unless it's armour in a temple province and you plan to build monk units (but it would be better to get armourer province for that), just to make them withstand any sort of attack until you capture armourer.
>>1555045>Because it doesn't matter how big is the percentage, if the baseline is 1lmao>number small not important!You are mentally impaired.It's literally the opposite, the number itself is irrelevant what matters is the percentage difference.>You don't even know what those values do in combatProjecting nigger.
any ideas on what to do next?
>>1556042It's hard to think of a worse strategic situation, but just eat westwards across Chugoku and hope your allies don't betray you.
>>1556042kill them all
I loved shogun 2. Is the originsl shogun 1 worth a shot?
>>1556042>Fortify one side(Pro tip: matchlocks rule in castle defence)>Keep pushing the other>Keep a fleet or two handy to repel naval invasions>all the non-combat oriented regions get markets and bars>???>profit
>>1556289its different, in my personal opinion its better but I never really liked Shogun 2 when it come and replayed it recently(like right now) trying all campaigns and I am still pretty disappointed(aka it didn't live to hype(I had none))
>>1556289Yeah, just gotta get used to the old style RTS control scheme but you can use RMB to move the camera with your mouse while panning with WASD.
>>1555066>It's literally the opposite, the number itself is irrelevant what matters is the percentage difference.Let me ask you a single question - what's greater, a +300% bonus or a +4 bonus?
>>1557337>>1555066You both suck at math
>>1556064>>1556090>>1556414I was able to do it. Also learned you don't get an achievement for finishing a Hattori campaign since it's a DLC clan which is dumb
>>1558157I hereby award you Hattori Achievement ! BANZAI
>>1554712Does the AI not build them?
>Shimazu is the best clan for beginners, but not that good in the hands of an experienced player.>Oda and Takeda are the strongest clans.>Ikko Ikki are harder to play but good if you know what you are doing.>Otomo is amazing but takes a long while before they shine.>Chosokabe is pretty average and gets worse as you increase the difficulty>Date are mid but offer a very different campaign experience>Hojo is boring but has an amazing starting position>Mori are boring since naval dominance isn't nearly as important as the land war>Hattori are edgy and bad
>>1558251Hojo are my favorite. Amazing starting position and early siege weapon dominance means that your enemy always has to come to you.
>>1558251>No one gives a fuck about Tokugawa which is kind of ironic
>>1550356use pack file manager to edit the mod
>>1558306>>Ieyasu was so good he led the worst clan in the game to win
>>1558251>Uesugi might be the hardest clan in the game
>>1558251>Hattori are edgy and badenjoy your extra 10 minutes of walking per battle scrub
>>1558392Yeah.>starting on the wrong side of Japan>huge province with many neighbors>you will get drawn into war early>clan feature benefits lategame unitsIf you really want to use warrior monks just play ikko ikki.
>>1558306Why does he wear a penis hat?
I heckin LOVE OtomoI heckin LOVE every province hating me due to wrong religionI heckin LOVE every other clan refusing to trade with me due to diplomatic penaltyI heckin LOVE starting with lower honorI heckin LOVE Nanban ships catching fire from the onslaught if the four trillion bow kobayas the AI sends my way every turnI heckin LOVE not having access to the regular Christian religious chain and instead having the objectively inferior Jesuit hospitalsI heckin LOVE Portuguese Tercos not having Portuguese voice linesI heckin LOVE having to destroy the nanban trade port
>>1558839Portuguese tercios are the absolute best unit for defensive sieges THOUGH
>>1558839Christoids deserve it.
>>1558306at least Tokugawa is in the game. Toyotomi Hideyoshi is still completely missing despite being a bigger player than either Oda and Tokugawa.
>>1525872>Welcome to the best TW.its not even best ShogunShogun 1 > shogun 2
>>1558251>Mori are boringWako pirate raiders are a fun unit
>>1559649Toyotomi was a peasant faggot that didnt achieve anything other than get humiliated by squidgame
>>1559662I agree with you but constantly posting this just makes you seem like a bitter cunt, the reality is most TW players now don't want a better simulation of warfare, they want to look at shiny toy soldiers and color in a map and think 'those are MINE!', like a preschooler playing with plastic army men.
>>1559662>>1560039What makes Shoigu 1 better?
>>1560155Less unit variety than S2, but more combat variety. You kinda have to play it to understand, but I'm a weirdo who hates the changes the expansion pack made the base campaign so I'm probably not a good judge.
>>1560178You've convinced me. I'm gonna play it
>>1560155>>1560178>>1560290Nta, but the important ingredient is no building slots. Those completely fucked AI's ability to build economy and especially procure units. Neither S1 nor M1 had any sort of limit, as long as you had money and previous tier, you could build, and this meant AI was twice as effective as getting sensible armies, rather than a hodge-podge of spearmanii
>>1560039Your post is insanely bitter and cunty, the one you are responding to is within the realm of sanity.
>>1560502>the one you are responding toYou. Couldn't be a more obvious samefag, and you aren't convincing anyone you're not a bitter cunt by acting like a bitter cunt to the only person mad enough to agree with you.
>>1560155its simpler more focused wargame, also engine is better especially for map visibility - less visual noise all around>>1560039I am just tired of cunts who piss their shit and praise shogun 2 or medieval 2 when they didn't even played them(or older titles)
>>1560606Most TW fans most likely have never played S1 or M1 but who hasn't played S2?
>>1560828This. They're good games but they're not really Total War games. Or, rather, games after Rome I (included) should've been named something else.There was a game named Imperial Glory that basically was Napoleon in the style of Shogun 1, I would never compare it to a post-Rome Total War game, just like I would not compare it to Civ or AoE.
>>1558524In my Uesugi campaign, I abandoned Echigo and relocated my army to Buzen in Kyushu. Made for a much easier experience.
>>1560828>but who hasn't played S2?An equal amount of people. Most people who discuss TW nowadays never played any and at best, their experience boils down to Warhammer 2.
>>1560863>Imperial Gloryplayed it, no morale was really weird and units all fought to dead, manpower was really limited and recruits with sticks were more dangerous than 1st line infantry, it wasn't good but i played it like 15 years ago>>1560828>but who hasn't played S2?most warhammer players I guess
>>1558839>I heckin LOVE having to destroy the nanban trade portOr you could deliberately lose the province, build nanban in the other starting one and have 2 nanban ports now after recapturing your capital
>>1558839This, but also using priests to spam christian rebels across the nation
>be young Bishamonten fanboy circa 1549, in one of the worst starting positions in all of 日本>first things first, end your vassalage over Yamanouchi because they will drag you into some retarded war on turn 2.>to counter balance this, get an alliance, marriage and trade agreement with Ashina since they won't trouble you for the foreseeable future>defeat the starting rebels and then start recruiting some ashigaru while building a port, and improving your defenses + supply>sail straight to Honma as soon as possible to capture the island, their gold mine, and the Aizu trade node.>ready your garrison in your home province withstand the assault from the Maeda's (and soon Takeda's) armies. In fact, don't even bother with roads and let them take three turns to reach you.>when you are strong enough and your castle well fortified, start expanding North, else the Date will fuck you 90% of the time.
>>1558306>Tokugawa and Oda rise to prominence was heavily defined by their alliance.>Game starts off in a way in which one has to destroy the other.How did they fuck this up?
>>1565376by making the start date way earlier than when the alliance happened. shogun 2's starting year fucking sucks for the time period.
>>1565424It's because Takeda Shingen is the protagonist of Shogun 2. They picked the start date for him to be a young lad. A start date with Nobunaga and Tokugawa already allied would have him be an old geezer.If Nobunaga was supposed to be the main character the game should have started in 1560 right after Okehazama.
>>1565464I believe this because I also build Shingen as the battle general always in the thick of things bolstering his men.
>>1565464I guess? It just seems weird to me considering how much it impacts the flow of the game. >If Nobunaga was supposed to be the main character the game should have started in 1560 right after Okehazama.I mean, it should have.
>>1558839I heckin LOVE permanently locking extremely limited build slots for a lump sum of money that won't even cover the costs of upgrading the castle and farms to maintain it.>I heckin LOVE not having access to the regular Christian religious chain and instead having the objectively inferior Jesuit hospitalsThis is such a dealbreaker for me I'll never play them even when I intend a christian run. One of the benefits of converting is that churches are good and you WILL have to build them everywhere anyway, but the one clan that actually starts christian gets a shit version instead.
>>1566293I really don't get how they fucked it up, the standard christian chain is so good but the jesuit hospitals suck
what's a good mod for gunpowder? i want it to be slightly better and unlock much earlier.
>>1524264>there is a guide or something to understand this game? or i'm being just retardedput three gaijin cannon behind your front line and the computer player will morale break before they ever even get into melee range. it's an easy game, really
Are they any good and worth the investment?
>>1567577Elven Sage's Firearm Range Rework, it boosts the range of guns considerably but also increases the spread so that low tier gun units don't get overpowered.>>1567613Putting them in your army makes it so that the AI always comes to you in a battle, but otherwise they're pretty crap.
>>1567613Mangonels specifically or all of those? Bombs are good on siege defense. Fire rockets are good on open field battles. Generally both are good but have their preferred fighting ground and need micro. Mangonels and european cannons need mods to make them usable.
>>1567613>mangonelsAbsolutley worthless (unless you have mod that fixes their accuracy)>bombsGood at erasing entire formations, but squishy and have large FF potential>rocketsLong range arty that disrupts entire formations. Good performance.>cannonsOnly use against walls, but they deal lots of damage to cav as well. Very likely to snipe enemy general in first minute of battle. Useless against infantry>ninjaGuys with bombs who can into stealth and meele. You'll have hard time trying to make them work, but I guess they can have their uses
>>1567705bomb throwers can blow up battlements removing the cover bonus for archers (plus all the dmg to the unit itself). ninjas can too but are limited in ammo, however they have climbing spikes (or whatever the game calls it) so none will die in the climb = no morale penalty + stealth = surprise attack on an archer or a flank inside the fortress.
>>1567613What one of the anons said already: bombs are great for siege defense.>>1567705Ninja are great when you have army too small to win fort assault, but can't just wait it out with siege counter, either. The real challenge is keeping track of both the ongoing battle AND commanding ninjas to full efficiency, but if you have sufficient split attention, they are absolutely devastating.
>>1567613Rockets are good, ninja are debatable, the others are trash.>worth the investmentno
>>1567720oh yeah the other thing you can do with ninja is /ninja/ the flag on multi story fortresses. the AI will go to the lower floors to fight your invaders and you can stealth rush the flag, maybe use 1 to cap and 2 to delay enemy units (depends on enemy forces, sometimes 1 is enough) and in 60s you force their surrender
>>1565204>start expanding North, else the Date will fuck you 90% of the time.this is why i can never enjoy uesugi, fuck campaigning in northern japan
>>152426410 yari10 bowmenYou win every fucking match-up because of how retardedly accurate the arrows in Shogun 2 are. Like, it's not even fair compared to previous games like Rome or even Empire where, bows were very deadly, but they had a larger scatter radius.>i can't win in normal diff, it reachs a point where every single faction declares war on you and you spend the rest of the game defending the territories that you still hasThe game blatantly cheats more-so than in previous total war games, because of how much more limited the map is in Shogun 2. Once you begin steam-rolling, if the AI didn't cheat, you would conquer the entire map in about 50 to 60 turns.>G-G-Get good! The AI doesn't cheatYes, it does, I've used cheats to turn off fog of war and watched as the AI literally spawns a deathstack once you begin conquering multiple regions quickly.The rock-paper-scissors mechanics of spears > Horses > Katana's > spears is also bumped up to 11 in terms of potency, so you have battles that last only a couple minutes from enemies getting crushed a lot more quickly and routing far quicker than previously.I think they did this as a response to people complaining about the AI in Empire, where units would never break until there were about 35-40% of them unit left, where-as in Shogun 2, they begin routing at around 65%, unless they're elite units.I will forever hold the opinion that, disregarding Warhammer 3, Shogun 2 is the WORST main-line entry in the total war series, but weebs don't like that so they downvote you every time you say that.>Limited variety>Limited strategy>sieges suck>Battles are over way too quickly>AI cheats like a mother-fucker>Bows are way too decisive>naval battles suck>no city battles, taking a hard step backwards compared to Napoleon
>>1554886>In warhammer the optimal strategy is doomstackingThat's equally as retarded of an argument since you can doomstack in every Total War game. Not an argument. Bow Samurai and naginata's win every time, across all factions in Shogun 2. Not the same in Warhammer. If you want to build a doomstack, it changes from faction to faction.
>>1568602people only think soigun 2 is so amazing because of the kill animations. Fall of the Samurai blows it out of the water but even that is shallow since it's just spam artillery the game
>>1568602Uhm, sweaty, you can only have 19 units, you need a general.Also 1-3 units of matchlocks will murder fuck you if you ever try to attack their castle.
>>1568647>Uhm, sweaty, you can only have 19 units, you need a general.Right. Regardless, just buy half yari and half bowmen. Naginata if you want overkill.
>>1568602>"weebs">thinks it's about the settingThe AI doesn't cheat(beyond the stat-modifiers and income buffs) and you haven't turned off the FoW to check. People have done that, and demonstrated that the AI in S2 doesn't cheat. It can simply afford more, spams multiple of the same building, upgrades castles for extra training slots, and recruits more aggressively than a player can but still has to wait 2 turns for Samurai.Also, bows suck against anything with a bit of armour and this is proven time and time again in any of the multiplayer battles you can find on youtube, where matchlocks are so much more favoured that they are always capped in competitions and everyone actually trying to win always brings the most they're allowed. This was of course before CA decided to change the shooting system in Rome 2 permanently and guns suck in WH as a result.
>>1568607Try winning against whole armies with a handful of units in Warhammer, using real tactics, not stat-stacking and active-abilities/'spells'(one-man doomstack). The point is that Warhammer is the pinnacle of modern Total War: tactics are irrelevant, only the spreadsheet matters. It's Total War for people who suck at Total War, and who keep giving themselves away by describing their own noob errors they tried in older games.
>>1568602>no city battlesCan you name a single city battle in the entire era?
>>1568647>you need a general>in shogun2Lmao
>>1569025By all means, make a full stack and have it rebel on you outside your city. If you wanna be stupid on purpose, go ahead.
>>1524264It`s definitely skill issue. My first TW game was Rome 2 and after it Shonen 2 was difficult. But I already finished few campaigns on legendary difficulty.
>>1524494Legendary victories also contribute towards the realm divide counter. You could have 5 provinces and only defend chokepoints against hordes of doomstacks and with enough time realm divide would trigger.
Is there an updated treatise on economy for FOTS? I recall farms being fucky in vanilla, and I know some tool tips in FOTS are bugged. Are economic buildings a waste of time? Better to just zerg territory? I know low tax never pays off.
>>1568905You can still use superior tactics to win battles you otherwise couldn't, granted it's typically reliant on using terrain and unit characteristics (size, mass, leadership) so I don't know if you'd disqualify that.I do wish things went more in a Rome 1 direction, more simulation and less abstraction, instead of "pretty" graphics.
>>1524264For me it's the faggot-ass Honma sailing all along the coast of Japan to take one of my mandatory win condition provinces with 5 turns to go when all my armies are at the front hundreds of miles away.
>>1570176well at least it's easy to prevent next time
>>1570176For me it's the pirate armada sailing all across the sea just to assaulting my ships in the trade nodes
anyone tried master of strategy? is it bloated?
>>1570224Those are THEIR trade nodes, chud.
>>1537773I guess it's relative. 16th century productivity and population level vs 19th century. What was average in 1545 looks meagre in 1880.
>>1543164Before it got nerfed by CA ashigaru spam ruled multiplayer>fugu cook>swordmaster>sword instructor>leadership general with stand and fight>improved range bow monks>12 loan sword veteransThere was absolutely nothing samuraicucks could do about 1800 sword ashigaru swamping their gay "balanced army"
>>1570328>SWORD ashiimportant difference tbqhwyfam
>>1570328continuing the tradition of peasant illiteracy, bravo anon
>>1568602>play fots>decide to be last samurai>yari samurai and spear levy > guys with rifles>banzai samurai murder anyone>yari samurai cavalry murder modern cavalry and infantry>modern infantry only have puny sidearm sword and no bayonets>capture all artillery you want i heard alot about this game and only good things so imagine my disappointment
>>1570623nobody plays fots. even in multiplayer vs vanilla units they're chumps
>>1570348>umh ashigaru aren't ashigaru... because they just aren't! OKAY?
>>1570328That's your own fault for playing avatar rather than the standard factions.>>1570623They nerf the range of guns to a ridiculous extent in order to make the melee units viable and the AI can't handle it.
>>1524264Noob here, just had an epihany today about defensive siege battles: it's better to put your ashigarus in a yari wall slightly back instead of having them manning the walls
>>1571037How back is "slightly back"? If they are in yari wall right behind the wall then they are going to get chewed up by enemy archers.
>>1571046Basically right behind the wall, to catch the attackers right when they set foot in the castle.Maybe I have yet to experience a siege against a strong archer army, but the losses were surprisingly low, on the other hand the yari wall absolutely rekt the attackers, in maybe 1 min they were all fleeing. Maybe have the ashigarus manning the wall and at the last moment pull back ?
>>1571052During defensive sieges the enemy melee troops are very rarely a concern.It's when they start bringing 6 units of bow samurai that things get pretty tough.
>>1568627I've been playing TW since shogun 1 and have never bothered to zoom in that close during battles. Usually I'm too busy doing micro and if I'm winning I just hit fast forward.
>>1571037keep lower wall emptylet the enemy climb it (if you are giving up a tower, burn it down)put your yari wall right under the higher wallput your matchlocks (or bows if you're poor) on top of higher wallif you have some sword/naginata samurai, have them watch the corners of your yari wall, to avoid getting flanked.Have your general sit and fight to give your yari wall a buff (as if they need one)
What would like to see improved in this game?
>>1572582Diplomacy not being shit. All the opponents work together against the player even before RD.It wasn't nearly as bad in Empire, in which alliances and rivalries felt much more organic.
>>1572606you just need to git gud at diplomacy. you can make long term allies (even through RD) if you know what you are doing
>>1533359Attila gave you the exact values related to skill bonuses and maluses you obsessed retard.
>>1570176Navy interception range should increase based on how many units in the stack, I've been saying it for years.
Chosokabe rain of arrows. Let those ricemongers try to reach your walls. They won't even have a chance
I want to go back to the old days when this was the new Total War, and everyone was so happy and nice.
>>1572761Get navy rebalance mod. It increases the ZoC to the size of a sight radius, so usually one fleet is enough to block off all the shallow coastal waters and force them to suffer attrition on open sea.Then you can send a single boat to do actual interception while the rest of the fleet serves as "reinforcements"
>master of strategy mod spawns random ikko ikki rebels in chosokabe starter islandyeah fuck this bloated shit anyway
>>1572929>navy rebalance modIs this is?https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1779850166
>>1572606>give away a daughter>give away a shit province you took from your enemy just to use it as an impenetrable buffer zone>or the enemy take it back the next turn if you're both fighting that enemy but you still get the diplomatic good boy points>side with ally against their enemies that you know can't easily get to youEZ.I've kept allies for 10-20 turns after the realm divide.Ikko ikki is the only faction that is actually impossible maintain alliances as.
>>1573458No, it's >S2TW Naval Mod v.1 - Overhaul, Tweaks, and Unit Pack
>play Imperial faction>different Imperial faction abandons emperor>still allied with all the Imperial factions and Very Friendly with me>declares war on me, still allies, still very friendlyAnd now my campaign is three Imperial factions who were allied with the traitor all at war with me while being friendly or very friendly. I haven't even fought a proper Shogunate faction all game. What the fuck.
>>1574217The strict imperial vs shogunate war only happens with RD.Prior to that it's a free for all.
The game should have more penalties for having low honor. Like, if your daimio keeps looting or betraying people, the Shogun just just order them to commit seppuku or else you become s rebel
>>1574801>The shogun should order them to commit seppuku if they are dishonorablethe reason why the sengoku jidai happened in the first place is that the Ashikaga shogunate had lost all of its authority and power and Nobunaga was the biggest "dishonorable" bastard of them all.
>>1532040Lol got 'em!
>>1574453If it is as just that, fine I get it, but why the fuck are the factions at war with me also 'Very Friendly'? And abandoning allegiance apparently has shit all penalties for the AI since the traitor kept every single alliance.
fuck battles are so fucking slow in darth mod
>>1576395And that's a good thing!
>>1524272or use mod where the loyal allied faction would help you when realm divide start, rather than stab you in the back
>>1576568why? besides the epic cinematic shots?just won a 3k vs 9k siege in ultimate immersive mod and it took me 25 minutes. it's just fine
>>1577165Just use normal unit sizes.
Give me a rundown on all the good mods
Is TRoM3 still the only good mod
>>1570245Yes it is bloated as hell
>>1568903Not that guy but the AI does indeed spawn armies. So it does cheat.And it will also upgrade all those armies from ashi to samurai instantly.This is well known so stop trying to say the AI doesn't cheat.
>>1577573TRoM3 really is great. I just wish it was on workshop since I can't get it to load. One of these days I'm going to have to edit it manually to get it to work.
>>1541118>>1541617Nobunaga won the Sengoku Jidai, like, he conquered and subjugated most of Japan, Tokugawa only took over because Nobunaga was killed and they completely fell apart, giving Tokugawa the opportunity to sweep right in and eat up their former allies
so am I just fucked out of getting trade nodes if I'm not playing as a faction in Kyushu?
>>1578444You are completely ignoring the Toyotomi's entire existence.
>>1578450I'm not ignoring them, I am simply ignorant and stubborn
>>1578444>>1578452There is a saying in Japan:>Oda planted the rice>Toyotomi cooked the rice>Tokugawa ate all the rice!
>>1578445Pretty much.That's why, when I played as Date, I sent an expeditionary force to take a single province in Kyushu, used it as naval base and trading hub and turned into impregnable fortress against constant sieges
I started the game as date and I have the same dilemma again. Attack or armor on no-dachi samurai?
>>1578697Always armour.You get attack with exp.
Another dilemma.Armour or charge bonus for cavalry? I have tried putting all charge bonus buildings on my yari cav and they were still unable to break bow samurai on a charge.
>>1578772It's hard to break samurai with a charge because of their "resistant to morale shock" attribute. But a good charge should still kill a lot of them and disrupt their formation.Higher charge bonus helps them inflict higher losses with successfull charge so that's what you should get.Armour doesn't really help cav because they should never be under fire or locked in meele for prolonged time.
>>1558251Wrong. All the clans play exactly the fucking same because the horse-paper-scissors mechanics override any incremental bonuses each clan gets for units and economy, and it's always more valuable to just spam samurai archers instead of trying to use any real tactics.
>>1579015>spam samurai archersWhat is fog, rain, cavalry, forests, high armour, terrain obstructions, horse archers, stealth units, vanguard deployment?
>>1578452when Japanese were asked in a survey to name their favorite historical figure, Hideyoshi was ranked higher than Ieyasu
>>1578480Maybe Hideyoshi shouldn't have been an uber psycho with a god complex who executed a shitload of loyal vassals just so his infant kid could ascend to his throne, thus ironically guaranteeing their pissed off relatives would depose the kid in revenge. Ieyasu, like it or not, is the guy who figured out a way to keep the powder keg from exploding again for centuries.
>>1579179Too bad the current heir to the Tokugawa head has no children of his own
>>1580403At least Nobunaga's grand(x17)son's got kids. It's fucking crazy how these families are still around somehow.
>>1580817Heck the Last Ashikaga died in 1989. As for the Shimazu, they're still around, and one branch even founded the Shimadzu Corporation, with the corporation's logo being the Shimazu Mon as well.
>>1524264Wait, this thread is still up?
Are there any mods that somehow encourage battles with smaller/poorly developed armies? I always end up stabilising, developing a bit and building doomstacks that steamroll any enemy army, or even two full stacks. The battles in the early game are much more fun and enjoyable.
Does anyone here know the build order for getting +4 attack +4 armor Katana Kachi as Satsuma in fall of the samurai in under 25 turns?There was a post on reddit where someone said they managed to do this, but it seems like the only way to get the attack bonus is to get the jujutsu from the training camp building tree, however that requires clan development 2. I can't seem to get up to clan development 2 before turn 19 or 20 no matter what I do, since upgrading the Dojo and armorer tanks your modernisation. The post said he did it by making peace with the starting enemy and then capturing his vassal on turn 2 with his army, which seems to be impossible with the starting army since it's too far away from the port to embark on turn 1. Screenshot is the post.
>>1524264I wish they finally add the Takeda variant of the Shogunate Guard Cavalry
Anyone else enjoying the fuck out of master of strategy?
Just beat the game as the Otomo, first time playing on hard and playing a Christian nation. What a real bloodbath that was, every single clan declared war on me long before the realm divide and nobody else converted the entire campaign. Maybe I could have sent out missionaries to convert others' lands. but they were too important in pacifying that -7 public order I get from being Christian, so I decided to keep them behind my lines so my troops could march forward faster. Those Nanban Trade Ships were definitely the best part of the campaign, even a fleet of just two of them could repel every navy the AI could muster against me, even managed to capture the black ship from the Honma and sank many full stacks going for my undefended provinces to the bottom of the sea. Many new heikegani were made.
Since this thread is still up, can anyone tell me if its ever worth it to upgrade markets? The fact that all the upgrade's cost precious food makes me think there's absolutely no reason to ever upgrade them.
>>1588463Food isn't as precious as you may think.Just keep it above 0, but other than that it doesn't give you much>muh lategame economyAfter 20 turns with +5 food at 10 provinces you'll get 1000 extra taxable worth. At normal taxes, reduced by administrative costs of larger domain, it'll be maybe 15%, which gives you a total of extra 150 koku per turn.
>>1588463If you're playing a long campaign yes, if you're doing a short campaign, no. It takes quite a few turns to make a profit on them. Also should probably only do it in your richest provinces. because food shortages can happen if your not careful
>>1588463>>1588728as a rule of thumb I only upgrade markets in provinces with fertile soil or better
>>1588729Why does the soil matter for a market?
>>1588771Provinces with fertile+ soil are wealthier which makes upgrading markets in those regions really worth it.
>>1524318>shogun 1 hojo>builds 30 castles in east before you encounter them>spend the next 200 turns banging your head against a wallFUCK hojo
>>1588463>if its ever worth it to upgrade markets?Iirc basic market will pay for itself after 30 turns.So usually no, since at early you can't allow long-term investitions and there's almost no mid-game, but if you already in late, have good income and aim to play 100 turns more - why not.
>>1588774>>1588729It doesn't matter unless you also stuck a metsuke in there.Otherwise it makes no difference if you build it in barren or very vertile soil. +200 is still +200
>>1588838It's not really because of money but moreso I don't want to have a food shortage
>>1527653Tower bune are extremely powerful and the black ship will make any fleet you put it in more or less invincible
>>1588463Only for the Metsuke improvements, and even then it's very questionable.
>>1579014Basilisk's depiction of Ieyasu captured his fat chin the best
>>1543208The campaign drop in battles were cool in concept, but if you queued for them 4/5 times you got the very first rebel stack battle in someone's campaign who forgot to turn it off. Still produced my single most memorable Total War battle in any game.>Queue drop in>Get a rhonin stack, like 10-15 units purely katana samurai and bow samurai>Player has a pretty normal midgame stack, lots of yari ashigaru, some cavalry, archers, etc. >Map has a nice wooded hill on my side, deploy entirely on the down slope, multiple units of archers stacked in rows up this hill for max arrow coverage.>Opponent advances slowly, clears the other woods on the map to ensure I'm not trying to sneak a single unit into his flank, finally has to assault the hill>Samurai arrow volleys beat out his peasant archers and his cavalry get bogged down in the woods>See my moment, order every single unit, katana and bow, to charge down the hill as his units start to reach the base>Mass morale shock from an entire army of charging samurai break his army and turn the battle into a series of clean up operationsHe probably reloaded and fought the AI instead, but I'm still glad to have fought that battle. Never would have made an army like that myself and everything about the battle felt emergent.
>>1583271yes, bump because i just reinstalled the gameusing artillery in this game is the best experience ive had for Total War
General, 2 Light Cav, 4/4 yari/bow ashigaru, 2 matchlocks let me guess you need more
>>1565376Total War has always been extremely zero sum. Letting the AI have a nearby province early on is never good in the long run. Shogun 2 in particular encourages you to just conquer everyone.
Not sure why people bitch about realm divide the cadence of a S2 campaign is early expansion, building an economy, building a professional army and then triggering it and going into a death war with all the remaining factions. Picking off factions one by one isn't that challenging.
>>1591175The problem is that diplomacy is pointless, even more pointless than in previous Total Wars. I think a far better implementation of Realm Divides is actually what Warhammer 3 did with its late game "one faction becomes extremely powerful, go fight it" concept. Imagine if the Date clan, for example, just got a huge buff and that's your late game challenge, Better than everyone betraying you regardless of how you treat them.
>>1591191I agree, diplomacy is really weak in Shogun and I usually just use it to squeeze money out of the AI or get a fickle "non-aggression" pact. I guess I just like the battles and the simple but satisfying economy enough to forgive it. Also vassals are kind of a pain since you can't really interact with them in a meaningful way and they will just declare on you anyways. I think the alliances work out better in FoTS at least in my recent games I've managed to keep people in my faction but that might be the exception not the rule.
>>1588838What? Fertile soil and very fertile soil give like 600+ and 800+ koku respectively. Barren gives 200+ and average is 300 or 400. Thats what makes upgrading farms on fertile and up so worth it
>>1592159AFAIK its wealth not koku, minus administration fee the total koku is half of what you stated XXJGD4
>>1592159We're talking about markets, not farms you baka gaijin
>>1568602>Shogun 2 is the WORST main-line entryThis guy gets it. But it's still a fun game, and introduced two great additions to Total War; multiplayer campaign (outside of mods) and Steam workshop support. The workshop support was the greatest thing because of allowing ~30 mods before crashing. Shogun 2 and Rome 2 are two of the best games thanks to mod lists. But also you forgot to mention how Shogun 2 has arguably the dumbest ai in the series, the campaign ai beelines for their next target, which means they always collapse after ~7 provinces. The battle ai either charges without any sense of formation (like RTW) or camps on the nearest hill. The reinforcements will ignore being attacked before reaching said hill for a defense battle, then they'll all charge afterwords>naval battles suckThe early ones mostly because archers can't damage ships before fire arrows unlocked, and the ship models make some spots practically immune to arrow fire, resulting in shit like a trade ship holding against 3 bow ships. Late game and FotS kinda fix this with cannons, fire bombs, and torpedoes just destroying the ships
How do I remove accuracy penalty from Mangonels?There are mods for that, but they change a lot of other stats too, so I am not eager to use those.
>>1589081Autoresolve can fuck you in that regard, though. Getting the black ship is nice in theory but you will end up having to babysit it and fight endless tedious naval battles so it doesn't get burned or captured by RNG. Shogun naval battles are just bad.
>>1568602>Bows are way too decisivet. never played the gameBows are useless against late game armored samurai spam.
>>1568602Gay fag>Balanced gameplay>Blatantly untrue>Name a TW where they don't>Fast based battles that require skill>Name a TW where they don't>Good thing bows aren't some enigmatic exclusive tool then>Name a TW where they don't>City battles are fucking dogshit trash, especially in a firearm TWYou've shit tier taste, no one is here for gay weeb faggot yellow monkey shit, it's because the game is tightly balanced, plays smooth and actually requires skill due to the fast pacing of combatAlso absolutely top tier firearm gameplayKys
>>1595750>>Balanced gameplayAnd this is why hero units, yari samurai, and half of the siege units are shit?>>Blatantly untrueProve it then, list 5 viable campaign strategies>>Name a TW where they don'tThrones of Britannia>>Fast based battles that require skillThey require less skill than slower battles>>Name a TW where they don'tMedieval 1>>Good thing bows aren't some enigmatic exclusive tool thenDo you really think that a game is balanced just because everyone can use over powered units?>>Name a TW where they don'tEmpire>>City battles are fucking dogshit trash, especially in a firearm TWCity battles are good, they are far superior to the 3-4 siege maps of shogun 2
>>1595744>useless against late game armored samuraiWhat about Chosokabe Daikyu? They have a bit more damage.
ugh can anyone give me some useful tips for Ikko Ikki? I use expanded Japan mod, and I have money problem every turn
>>1596546Remember to take your insulin
>>1524264The secret to succeeding in Shogun 2 is understanding that the campaign layer is broken.Buildings are not cost effective. Only build t1 markets for eco, and only build them earlygame. Past the earlygame, just stop building anything except the occasional public order building (where absolutely necessary)>what about recruitment buildingsBow Ashigaru are the most cost-effective unit in the game, so it's not particularly important to recruit higher tier units. However, the AI will develop their settlements (and cheat to do so) so as you take more territory you'll naturally capture high tier recruitment buildings.A 20 stack with mixed Ashigaru (spears for a tarpit, bows to kill) will defeat its cost in samurai of any configuration in a headlong fight and the AI isn't smart enough to use specialized units in the specialized way necessary to extract their maximum value. Thus you can easily field very many large, cheap and cost effective armies quite quickly, expanding your economy via conquest and slowly sprinkling more specialized units in as the game progresses and you capture recruitment buildings.Most of the map is a two-lane chokepoint where settlements block further progress. You can crush very powerful armies by just sitting in a settlement and waiting for them to attack. The AI is suicidally aggressive and will kill themselves on walls. This also gives cheap bow ashigaru enormous value.Any AI without direct land access to your settlements will spam naval invasions at you. Cheap fleets patrolling the north and south will kill many times their value in army since the AI doesn't know how to navy and will carry whole 20-stacks with single ship fleets.Trade is a trap. Only use it for a quick boost earlygame to help you field an army to conquer your immediate neigbours. Later on, nobody will trade and it can cripple a trade-focused economy. Pull the bandaid early so you have a realistic image of how ready you are for Realm Divide.
>>1540839samurai units are hilariously op compared to levies in melee and it's satisfying to have elites actually be useful in a total war game. Levies, on the other hand, are so disposable that you can be much more loose with them if it means drawing the enemy samurai into an awkard position where you crush them with yours. sort of a "sacrifice pawns to take out a queen" gambit. As for downsides, unit variety is probably the biggest weakness of Shotgun 2 in general and Rise in particular has I think the lowest amount of variety of the three modes.
>>1596686And make sure to just auto battle everything. It's the most time efficient so you can go suck cock instead of play the game.You meta slave homos are disgusting
>>1596686imagine being so bad you need to minmax in shogun tho
>imagine being so bad you need to minmax in shogun thoVolound and LegendTotalWar sisters, our (he/she) response?
>shogun2>minmaxSamurai have no goal, only path.
>>1568602>downvoteholy shit go back
>>1597145Certain campaigns absolutely require min-maxing for any chance of success
>>1524264Constantly fight, never autoresolve, learn mechanics to fight effeciently, use agents to steal armies. Don't waste money and time on economy, just take the enemy's economy. Defense is easy in S2, the enemy needs at least a 3:1 advantage, you don't need a full army to defend. Intercepting invasion fleets is also cheap because the AI rarely puts them in a full fleet.
I feel like the AI is broken in FOTS>Be Imperial>All other Imperial factions convert to Shogun>Be Shogun>All Shogun factions conver to Imperial>AI never converts to your allegiance Is there a mod that turns allegiance switching off?
What do I do if the game forces me to attack an enemy outside of my castle? I'm not under siege, the game is just forcing me to do it for no reason and doesn't give me the option to retreat
>>1601821I need this too.I was having a fun campaign as Saga and then on the same turn both Satsuma and Tosa flip to Shogunate out of nowhere and attack me, breaking an alliance and very friendly relations in the process.
>>1524397based, namo amida bu
>>1596546chant more and heaven will take care of it
>>1602312>Satsuma and Tosa flipping to Shogunate. This shit should be turned off for Major Clans.
>>1602312I had the exact same shit happen to me. I think it's triggered by you attacking minor factions near you that are aligned to your side. The AI's see this as a betrayal of your faction, regard you as treacherous and switch sides to 'stop' you.Yet, of course, FotS begins with every faction surrounded by minors aligned to their side so there's no real way to expand otherwise.
>>1605046 Nah I have had this happen when I never attacked minor factions.I have read that the AI looks to constantly expand. If there are no other opposing factions bordering it and they are bordering you, they will flip to expand using you as the target. Which is completely fucked since Imperial and Shogunate all start near each other. I am convinced FOTS was meant to be played coop. Note this only happens to AI factions with your allegiance.
>>1598948Nagaoka in FoTS on Legendary, going for RepublicYou can't fuck around I'm sure other factions would be just as difficultFor regular Shogun 2 there's Ikko Ikki
>>1549640I genuinely suggest playing medieval 2, its my favorite game in the series despite the fact I bought it last after Shogun 2, Rome 1, Rome 2 and Attilla. The camera is obtuse, yes and the units can be a bit sluggish to respond but it is genuinely fun with the best campaign map and the most features. It feels less like an arcade game and more like a simulation game, at least to me, due to the battles and campaign map having more depth. If you really want to you can google the battle camera plugin which gives you a free cam like in newer Total wars. Its pretty good desu.I was actually really dogshit to middling at most total war games, but after playing lots of Med 2 I usually stomp the shit out of most battles, save for sieges, which is a pain.
>>1605435Medieval 2 is a good middle point in the series were it has campaign progression (technology events, mongols, timurids crusades and jihads) while the battles are also much better paced than Rome or Shogun 2 were its a case of instant unit rout. At the same time its got a bunch of stupid bugs and the AI is a shitter at capturing territory because it loves to split its stacks into minis. The game would be perfect if they gave it the Rome population recruitment system, fixed the pathfinding bugs, put in some hardcoded behaviour to the ai to make it decent at conquering and holding settlements, fixed the general gamplay bugs and added the kingdoms units and factions into the grand campaign (some mods do this like custom campaign mod and kingdoms grand campaign)
>>1605509>Rome population recruitment systemPretty sure it has that anon. You can deplete or forcefully cities by raising levies and then disbanding them in another city.Overall though I agree. I can look over most of the bugs just because its such a gem and shits all over most other TW titles. I played 15 minutes of WH, got bored and then refunded it. I haven't touched any of the newer games after that.
I'm getting a little fatigued fighting stack after stack with a spear levy and two levy infantry defending the republic
>>1568655You've played like enough for one single campaign, why are you acting like you are some kind of aficionado of the game?
>>1602312>start Saga campaign>sail out against Tsushima, defeat them>Tosa switches to shogunate, declares war on me>Goto Islands delcare war on me>Satsuma break trade relations with me after I defeat the Tosa fleet, sail my army to Goto Islands>Hizen switches to Shogunate, breaks our alliance, and marches with 1.5 stacks on my undefended capital in two turnsI only won a Legendary Shogunate campaign because all of the Imperial Clans defected; I only had, like, 3 provinces
>>1591338>I guess I just like the battles and the simple but satisfying economy play shogun 1 then
>>1607755This might be difficult to empathise with, but people who didn't play old games at the time aren't generally willing to put up with primitive prototypes. Games age.
>>1607775its better than s2if anything s2 is downgrade from s1
>>1607800in terms of gameplay its better
>>1607811There are also people whose favourite RTS is warcraft 1
>>1524283literally just sandwich the katanas with yari wallhell you can conquer all of japan with just Oda yaris if you are smart with your engagements.
>>1558251God I wish Uesugi was betterKenshin was a monster during his time
>>1558251Shimazu get heavy gunners THOUGH
I rushed guns this time around, completely changed my army setups. From a yari-ashigaru center with samurai support it's just pure pike and shot. It's cheaper, easily replaced and is constantly defeating more expensive armies. Feels good man.
>>1611213Back in the day, I ranked very high in the 1v1 Shogun 2 multiplayer and almost never lost. The secret? 1 general~14-15 matchlock ashigaru1 mangonel (later cannon when mangonel was nerfed to shit)3-4 spear cavalry veterancy for all units as high as could be fit into the budget, generally at least rank ~5 Line up 3 lines of ashigaru in a 1-thick line, such that line 2 can just reach line 1 etc. Cavalry for anti-cav when neededUnless it faced very specific compositions, it was unbeatable
Why the fuck is Echizen/Sendai so fucking sparse? You take like 5 goddamn turns marching north from the Kanto area to take one fucking settlement. A campaign up there isnt strategically viable i have better places to expand toOh wait, you really ought to conquer it anyway because you dont want some Date fucks trying to shove their nodachis up your ass in a second front during realm divide
>>1611277>Start as Shimazu>???>Never need to bother going north
>>1611277the area was barely japanese at the time
>>1611324you're barely japanese
>>1611277play Expanded Japan mod you pleb
Is katana calvary ever worth it
>>1612955No.Get yari cav
>>1524264I've had this in my steam library for like 10 years and have never played it (or any other TW game). Is it worth my time?
What clan should I play in fots?
>>1614987NagaokaGo for RepublicOn Legendary Get your asshole nice and puckered
>>1611213how do you avoid getting eviscerated by archers with that setup?
>>1614987TosaConquer Shokaku.Capture Bizen.Build gunsmith and shooting range.Spam riflemen. Sail off to Edo. Ez.
>>1615131Archers are weak to bulletsAlso cavalry
>>1614987Satsuma because blueBe sure to pick the British military mission and get yourself the Warrior
>>1615131I take a more aggressive stance if archers are an issue. The archers can't get in good hits while their melee is engaged with my line and once they're dealt with the guns can run forward and delete them in a couple volleys. I did the Oda tactic for awhile by having a few archers of my own behind my line so there was just a constant hail of fire coming down on the enemies but I wanted more guns cos it looked cool. Even if I do take heavy casualties the nature of the army being made up of ashigaru means everything is easy to replace.
>>1615131>The bow is tactically strong at the commencement of battle, especially battles on a moor, as it is possible to shoot quickly from among the spearmen. However, it is unsatisfactory in sieges, or when the enemy is more than forty yards away. For this reason there are nowadays few traditional schools of archery. There is little use nowadays for this kind of skill.>From inside fortifications, the gun has no equal among weapons. It is the supreme weapon on the field before the ranks clash, but once swords are crossed the gun becomes useless. One of the virtues of the bow is that you can see the arrows in flight and correct your aim accordingly, whereas gunshot cannot be seen. You must appreciate the importance of this.I just love the balance of this game.
>>1615179I did this except with choshu and with kihetai instead of riflemen
>>1541080OR you can have stacks of only foot samurai with accuracy bonuses and decimate every single army before they even reach you. It's hilarious how broken they are especially with Kamakura Minamoto. Sieges are extra kino with how much slaughter the rain of arrows that block out the sun do.
>Lamellar armor made from iron or steel>Originally invented to offer good protection against arrows >Does jack shit against archers in this game Why?It's the like the game quotes The Five Rings just to mock the people that have actually read it.I regret installing this game again.>>1616357Yes that makes perfect sense.