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Starcraft 2 was a perfect single player RTS. It had a good story with good cinematics and RPG roleplaying elements. The campaign missions were all unique. It was never just a simple rts destroy base mission like you would play on skirmish and you were given new stuff to play with on each new mission. Also, there was a lot of more replay value due to achievements/difficulty making you play every mission differently. Overall, it was a lot better than multiplayer.
>>
>>1371638
The campaigns are good especially WoL
It was my #2 single player RTS that year, a close finish behind Dawn of War II
>>
>>1371638
yeah, the story itself was garbage but the campaign structure and design was top tier
>>
>>1371655
I felt it was to gimmicky. It tired to make every mission have a gimmick. Some of mission were really cool, but not enough were actually RTS Missions.
>>
I was top 1000 players at its height, but unless you were top 100 it didn't matter. I hated the ladder so fucking bad each match was grueling.
Eventually just would go into rooms and challenge anyone and I'd tell them I'll only go marines. Fun times.

Also Raynor was kind of simp and tychus did nothing wrong.
>>
>>1371638
I would generally agree, though I felt that after the Terran Campaign there were a bit too many maps that were either mandatory time-based or had to be finished in a certain amount of time for an achievement. I would rather have the time to fully explore a map and just be legitimately challenged by difficult enemy attacks rather than have the challenge be jumping a set of hurdles in a specific period.
>>
>>1371638
>good story

Starcraft 1:
>I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power!
Starcraft 2:
>kerrigan pls be my waifu I will make you human again
>>
>>1371711
pretty much
https://youtu.be/ntR2g8L6y7Y?t=49
doesn't she turn into some golden god in the last campaign and magically becomes human again? writing was shit
>>
>>1371638
Eh yeah it was pretty good. The story sucked though.

>Overmind is actually a good guy
Fuck that gay shit.
>>
>>1371638
HOTS was horrible and all of LotV missions where some gimmicked time limit shit.
>>
>>1371711
>SC1
Writers corruption fetish
>SC2
Writers pussy worship
>>
>>1371638
PLAY STARCRAFT YOU FILTHY CHILDREN OF MEN
>>
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>>1371711
You know what's bad about Jimmy being deep enough in the bottle to spare Kerrigan is that it feels like he's indirectly responsible for some of the things she did.
>>1371761
>doesn't she turn into some golden god
Did they excuse that with her psionics so she didn't end up looking like pic related?
>>1371827
>>Overmind is actually a good guy
How?
>>
>>1371655
Storywise, WoL was fine. HotS pissed me off. Cool, you've decided to deinfest Kerrigan. NOW OWN UP TO IT. Instead it's "nope, 4 missions later, she's Zerg again". Thanks for robbing me of my victory, you cunts. And then you have LotV and the chad Artanis singlehandedly solving every problem in the galaxy and taking the fight to Amon, because Kerrigan and Raynor were too busy simping for each other to actually do anything about Amon.

There could've been a great story with human Kerrigan being a protagonist of the Terran campaign, instead or Raynor, but the order of the campaigns needed to be different - you start with the Zerg campaign and Kerrrigan having issues with controlling the Swarm, then you to the Terran campaign and play the deinfested Kerrigan and you end with the Protoss for the finale. That would actually flow better.
>>
>>1371655
the original and broodwar was for sure better storywise but i really liked the features and mechanics of starcraft 2 more
>>
>>1372296
>broodwar was for sure better storywise
I dunno about that. Brood War had a lot of "don't think about it" moments in its story. In the end Kerrigan doesn't come off as someone with a watertight masterplan, but as someone who has writers on her side. She only succeeds, because everybody else makes the most idiotic decisions they can and never bothers to ask the obvious questions.
>>
Wings was really nice. It probably has the best campaign out there. I especially like the atmosphere of the game. Even just being in the bar was a joy. The invasion on Char? Perfection. Man I love how alive the entire game feel. It's the only campaign I still replay occasionally. It could use a bit more of unit variety like in lotv though.
Hots was bad. Everything. From the story to missions to the actual ladder. It was so bad. I quit the game for good during hots. I have only replayed the campaign twice, ever. The only nice thing about it was the evolution thing but even then like half of them are really bland. The worst one out of the three.
Lotv was where all of the improvements over the years culminated. The upgrades were interesting, evolution came back but better this time (the faction thing). Although it still couldn't beat wings in atmosphere. The story just couldn't recover after hots.
>>
If only they've copied the idea of subfactions from Westwood and had those units which were campaign-only in WoL (haven't played afterwards) make up the difference between subfactions. Balancitism truly is a plague.
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>>1371711
Just post the picture next time.
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>>1371655
That's because large amounts of the storylines of both Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void were cut

HotS feels clunky on the story's pacing and neglects a lot of proper character development and underutilized mechanics and LotV feels like there are several missions missing from the story, like the devs removed them and forgot to alter the story to keep it consistent
>>
>>1371711
To be fair, it wouldn't be a stretch that he figured out that the zerg transformed her into a monster by force and that he considered the Queen of Blades a "separate" entity from the original Kerrigan
>>
>>1371638
Story was fucking garbage and you are too
Fuck Blizzard, fuck Activision, fuck korea and fuck you
>>
>>1372628
>I don't know if you have what it takes to be a killer
What? He kills thousands
>>
Its a good SP RBT but its a pretty bad MP RBT
>>
>>1372737
But she's a girl! That's like totally different!
>>
>>1371761
she becomes an Avatar of Kaela Mensha Khaine
>>
>>1372743
It's not either of those things. It's an RTS.
>>
>>1372749
Yeah RBT is a sub-genre of RTS.
>>
>>1372751
Kill yourself any time.
>>
>>1371638
Story is utter garbage but the campaign missions were good.
The death of RTS genre can also be attributed to lazy single player campaigns that are just skirmishes against AI with nothing unique added.
>>
>>1371655
They went less grim than Starcraft 1, probably to appeal to more people with a more generic heroic story than something that could almost be in warhammer 40k
>>
>>1371883
>How?
Was preparing Kerrigan for all the xel naga hoobly goobly.

It was enslaved to Amon and Kerrigan was meant to defeat him.
>>
>>1372784
I hate the sc2 campaign story so much. As a previous anon said the mission design and gameplay were terrific, the writing was ass after wings. The ending of wings was the omen of it all though. Jimmy should have put a bullet in a weak kerrigan, with tychus alive and continuing to be mensks inside man. The zerg campaign could have been something neat like a new hive mind growing sentience and overthrowing cerebrates for control of the swarm. Abathur and dahaka could be competing influences for how you make your swarm like in heart of the swarm. Lotv was a hot mess and a consequence of the bad writing before it, all the way from brood war sadly. A renegade xel naga being the overall big bad sounds like a page from world of warcraft writing team. Sc thrives on the grittiness of inter and faction tensions and intrigue. Oh well.
>>
>>1372801
SC2 unironically tried to combine all of Blizzards settings into one multiverse.
>>
What else good single player strategy games do you know?
C&C
>>
>>1372802
They gonna introduce Draenei to Starcraft?

Draenei have guns and spaceships, right?
>>
>>1372804
Fingers cross...
>>
>>1372804
And dicks!
>>
>>1371638
kek
>>
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>>1372801
If Kerrigan was killed would Stukov had made a good replacement?
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>>1371638
>It had a good story
The story was absolute garbage.
>Overmind was mentally enslaved to consume the Protoss and everything by Amon and it mutating Kerrigan was its FUCK YOU to Amon
>Zerg were big dindu nuffins all that time due to the above
>Muh prophecies
>Muh Kerrigan's poorly done redemption arc and her getting away with everything
>Character assassinations and putting in stuff from the books which themselves were poor
>Turned Protoss from psychic space barbarians with hi-tech into pure sci-fi WoW Draenei
>All those fucking retcons and changes
Yeah no. It's absolute garbage in every way. The only good thing about the campaigns were the mission designs. Hell, it actually made escort missions fun.
>>1374107
WAAAAAY better. It would've been far more interesting with him coping with being an infested human while fighting in the Koprulu sector...and looking for vodka to drink.
>>
>>1372296
>the original
Yes
>broodwar
Only marginally
>>
>>1371638
>It had a good story
>>
>>1371638
>good story
marvel/hollywood goyslop
>>
>>1372676
NTA but the problem is that was a retcon. Kerrigan was clearly on a power rush in StarCraft and Brood War. That's her arc. Her whole deal is that the Overmind can't control her; she does as she pleases, which just happens to be betraying people and consolidating her power.
>>
>>1375807
She just wanted to be a good mother and protect her slimy, spiky babies.
>>
>>1371638
starcraft 1 was better
>>
>>1371638
Starcraft 2 is one of the best SP RTS experiences of all time
>>
>>1371638
>good story
Nah lmao. They retconned everything that made SC1 interesting, made the Zerg into "lol we were actually peaceful but the ancient evil that awoke enslaved us jeje," turned infested Kerrigan from a merciless monster into a pussy bitch, completely changed Raynor's personality and retconned him, completely changed Mengsk's personality and retconned him, added in a bunch of lolsorandum whacky 2-dimensional supporting characters nobody gives a fuck about, retconned the UED... jesus, the damage they did to the story was insane. I never even bothered to play LoV with how terrible WoL and HotS were. The story and writing were complete ass.
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>>1377271
>lol we were actually peaceful but the ancient evil that awoke enslaved us jeje
They just copied the orcs from WC3
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>>1372737
>installation mission in sc1
>civilians literally named civilian
>Jimmy and the boys autoattack them
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>>1372303
Vanilla SC is the only one with great story and even that is at the expense of turning head away at few things here and there.
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>>1371638
You can't pause it and give orders.
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>>1378934
turn-based games might be more your speed
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>>1371638
>play WoL campaign
>love it
>get to multiplayer
>every map is identical
>over half the units for both races are useless or so niche you never use them
>terrain is nonexistant as a strategic advantage
>build order autism is 99% of the game
Ive never been so disappointed.
>>
>>1377316
The difference is - orcs made sense. Them turning good was foreshadowed waaaay back when in WC2. Even in WC1 to some extent.
>>
>>1372737
The classic ludonarrative dissonance meme.

If you kill a thousand people during gameplay, it doesn't count. If you indirectly cause the deaths of millions through your actions, it doesn't count. But if you kill a single named character in a cutscene or narrative event, even if it's an unrepenting villain, you're a horrible murderer.
>>
>>1379019
unless you're korean, you should always ignore multiplayer and only play coop
>>
>>1379542
Versus with friends can be fun. But those games tend to have LAN support and that's definitely not something SC2 has.
>>
>>1379177
Wait, seriously? There was lore in WC2 supporting that orcs could be good?
>>
Name a strategy game with a better campaign than Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void.
>>
>>1372622
They did that for co-op mode
>>
I think an underappreciated part of SC2's level design is that the nonlinear nature of stages meant you could do things out of order and then do missions with units that completely change your strategy. Like you COULD do everyting the game intends for the zombie survival mission...or you could wait until you get siege tanks and make an unstoppable wall of artillery fire the enemy can't get past.
>>
>>1381878
Homeworld
>>
>>1381916
In one of the two other expansions? Because that wasn't a thing in WoL at least initially.
>>
>>1381878
Rise of Legends
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>>1381878
Almost all of them have a better story.
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>>1381927
Co-Op Commanders was added in LotV. It's my favorite addition to the game, you and another player do a mission from a pool of different types, and you both play as story characters who have their own unique unit variations and playstyles.
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Co-op_Missions
Like for instance, if you play as Kerrigan you get Kerrigan as basically a WC3 hero unit, if you play as Schwann you can't built a barracks but factory units are a lot cheaper and you get a weaker version of that laser drill from the one WoL mission, Stukov is built around mass formations of expendable Infested Terrans, Vorazun is built around Dark Templar, etc.
It's my favorite thing they ever added to the game, and it's just a side mode.
>>
>>1378934
It's fine. The Terrans are easy like that since their Marines can attack both ground and air and they have bunkers for easy defense. Plus idle builders next to your bunkers will auto-repair. Results in you not needing to pay much attention.

Zerg campaign isn't much more complex since you can just get Kerrigan to kill any trouble targets while the rest of your army swarms over the enemy.

The Protoss might require a bit of micro since their units have special abilities but after a few missions you'll be able to choose unit varieties that don't need paying attention to, can auto-teleport so you don't need to worry about units getting in each others way, choose variants that are big balls of stats that lose their abilities and can let your soldiers fight on their own. Plus since it's the last campaign you'll be ready.
>>
>>1374822
>Turned Protoss into pure sci-fi WoW Draenei
I wish there was half as much smut about protoss chicks as there is about draenei

On a related note, does anyone care to redpill me on how the Draenei became sexy goat ladies instead of pic related? What did nu-wow do to them?
>>
>>1382130
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_One

>The Lost Ones are highly mutated and deformed draenei. They have devolved further than the Broken and many have been reduced to savage and primitive beasts.
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>>1371655
>the story itself was garbage but the campaign structure and design was top tier

I liked what they did with Tychus. Sort of. His Odin rampage was sort of his "feel good, goodbye suckers" sequence and then he decides to give Raynor a fighting chance at the end.
But yeah, Blizzard roally fucked up whatever it was they had in mind with the story in the next expansions.
>>
It's this thread the latest iteration of 'Lets hate Kerrigan and project our headcanon personality onto Jim Raynor'?
>>
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>>1382130
In fairness, protoss women look almost identitcal to protoss men aside from maybe less wrinkles, and either way there isn't much to sexualize. I'm glad blizz never humanized them too much in appearance, they're basically just Greys in fancy armor.
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>>1382532
Sorry bro, I've a thing for tall slender figures and the extra leg joint is also hot as fuck, what very little toss r34 there is, I'm in love with.
>>
>>1371638
you can hate the unit design or gameplay but purely for MP it really is the most polished and optimized RTS on the market, cant see anything beating it in near future especially not that Stormgate trash everyone is hyped for. Cringe strong women and onions is literally oozing from the trailer, the fact its indie and lacks 10 years of patches guarantees it will be bugged mess with imbalanced races for years.
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>>1371638
>good story
Besides that I agree with the rest, people should see what they did with this campaign and steal the good ideas.
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>>1382654
It's being made by the same people.
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>>1382654
>muh strong wahmen
>when kerrigan exists
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>>1377271
>"lol we were actually peaceful but the ancient evil that awoke enslaved us jeje,"
I'm actually impressed that Blizzard has managed to inject this topos into literally all of their franchises left.
How creatively bankrupt can an art company be?
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>>1377271
>made the Zerg into "lol we were actually peaceful but the ancient evil that awoke enslaved us jeje,"
But the Zerg were the demons from Devilman before the Xel'Naga showed up
>>
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This sounds silly, but my absolute favourite thing about SC2 was the fluid as hell pathfinding and movement in general
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>>1383139
Yes. All other RTS feel like shit in comparison.
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>>1383150
t. never played geniunely good RTS.

Try BAR.
>>
Does blizzard ever do any sales?
Currently playing the free terran campaign and it's fun.
But don't feel like paying 40 bucks for the rest which is basically a decade old game.
>>
>>1371711
The most criminal thing about SC2 is that you could save Kerrigan. I wish she wasn't salvageable and Raynor just became a more bitter and broken man
>>
>>1383978
They did do one for 30% off once, not sure if they're seasonal or not. Usually they don't do anything anymore.

Buying the bundle gets you two games that used to cost 60 euros on release, plus 3 extra commanders for free, that's 15 bucks. It's not a bad deal. Plus the best content is Nova's campaign which isn't even included in the bundle afaik.

I kinda wish I bought the co-op commanders back in the day when I didn't hate blizzard and when they hadn't abandoned my favorite game, cause now I find the purchase hard to justify.
>>
>>1383139
Yeah, it's the one reason I can't go back to SC1. Just knowing that your melee units will actually get into a fight, attacking the first enemy they come into contact with without significantly impeding other melee units and your ranged units will find a target which can involve them shoving allies a bit to get into range.

It's just so smooth that older games especially just can't compete.
>>
>>1382149
Aye.
>Present a fun character
>Kill him off and never have him reappear
And the other campaigns were shitty. Fucking Kerrigan getting away with everything...
>>
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>>1388249
Thought came across my mind recently:
Would it have made more sense if Tychus was trying to capture Kerrigan for Mengsk and the Terran Dominion?
I mean Mengsk turning the psi emitters against the confederacy's worlds shows he has no qualms about siccing the zerg on his fellow Terran and what would be better than to have access to an infested human with the ability to command the swarm for his lab boys to experiment on and giving Raynor all the more reason to kill Kerrigan at the cost of him losing another brother in arms too.
nta
>>
>>1388303
Would've been far more interesting than what we got that's for sure.
>>
The biggest problem with starcraft 2 and RTS in general is that the moment you step into 1v1 multiplayer you basically ruin any chance you have of enjoying the campaign again.
All the strategic choices you could make in the single player campaign becomes useless when you start playing the game like a multiplayer match and it's a skill that you can't really handicap yourself on or at least I can't.
I find it similar to how when you play an MMO at a hardcore level it starts to ruin a other mmo's in the genre.
>>
>>1371638

>It had a good story

No, it had not. The story was mediocre, almost contradictory to the first game.

>Starcraft 1: Kerrigan, one day I'll kill you!
>Starcraft 2: Kerrigan, here is a deus ex machina which will cure you. You were evil because of zerg mutations btw, not because it was your evolution as a character during past events.

Fucking lame. It was a good game still, but the story was butchered until Marvel-style capeshit was left. Terran campaign was especially good until the prophecy arc kicked in.
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>>1388303
- Hey, let's capture this hybrid who was a really powerful psionic even before growing several prehensile spines each of which can shred a tank with 4 hits, not to mention capable of summoning devastating psionic storms and communicating across immense distances now.
- Sure, sounds like a greaAAAAAAAAAAA
- AAAAAAAAAA
- AAAAAAAAAAAA
...
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>>1388776
the problem is you can only play a game casually for so long before it starts to lose its "fresh" appeal. hardcore players are just casual players with 10x the hours.
>>
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>>1389190
Wasn't downplaying her abilities but the matter in which she's handed over to Mengsk would largely depend on Findlay and unwittingly Raynor's ability to bring her down to a weakened state so that Tychus could hand her over in exchange for his freedom, I doubt Mengsk and the Dominion are so limited in their abilities to organize Kerrigan's containment.
I do need to ask, since it doesn't seem to have been brought up, but does the Terran Dominion in SC2 make sense coming from Brood War?
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>>1389219
>bring her down to a weakened state
Well, she ends up in a weakened state in WoL too. Doesn't last too long. In fact the expeditionary fleet or whatever they're called even had the Overmind in a weakened state. Funny how that worked out for them.

Zerg are bioweapons. There is a reason bioweapons are banned here on Earth already: no matter how smart you think you are, no matter how careful you are, everyone will be fucked in the end. Everyone. No exceptions.
Normally there are only two ways to deal with bioweapons/a side that might use them:
a) destroy with extreme prejudice;
b) contain somewhere very far, preferably with millions of kilometres of almost completely empty space between you.
But since some of the Zerg can be intelligent, they will eventually overcome the obstacles in option B. They might, for example, develop spores that survive atmospheric entry, initiate development and spread of their biome which will inevitably result in Zerg eating everyone and everything they can, and killing (and strip-mining must needs) the rest.
I guess there is also option C due to their intelligence, joining them. But you would have to somehow convince their intelligent parts that you are useful, and turn out to actually be useful long-term or they will simply dissolve you into nutrients when you have outlived your usefulness.

>I doubt Mengsk and the Dominion are so limited in their abilities to organize Kerrigan's containment.
Never discount the human factor. Complacency, fallibility, hubris, plain stupidity, lack of resources resulting in people with respective lack of competence being assigned to critical enough positions.

>I do need to ask, since it doesn't seem to have been brought up, but does the Terran Dominion in SC2 make sense coming from Brood War?
I don't remember their particular part of the story that well, but anons in other threads said it certainly does not. They were fucked pretty hard.
>>
>>1389214
I think someone who exclusively only plays campaigns or skirmishes against the computer would have a much easier time enjoying a replay of RTS campaigns a decade later compared to someone who moved over to multiplayer.
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>>1389242
If you space it out that far apart sure. But a lot of casuals are just ignorant tards who think they're going to love every game they get excited about forever. Especially common among new MMO games. Hardcore players will complain about a lack of content at endgame and casuals will shit all over them. Then 2 months later the casuals are starting to say the same shit as the hardcore gamers that were just ahead in terms of hours played.
That's why it's important for devs to listen to the hardcore playerbase over casuals.
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>>1383139
I can't imagine how much work it took for get pathfinding that good.
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>>1389236
>Funny how that worked out for them.
It worked out fine until Kerrigan killed it
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>>1389330
Yeah, turns out if you kill the biggest Zerg brain you'll have smaller ones take over. I bet you'll eventually have Overminds mutating into Cerebrates or something like that even if you kill all Cerebrates in existence. The only way to stop Zerg is to go scorched earth.
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>>1371638
wings of liberty was good
the two expansions were not good
sc2 had a mediocre-to-bad story, writing, characters, tone, etc.
however the WoL campaign is undeniable good RTS fun
>>
>>1371638
>good story
>>
>>1389341
Yeah. WoL is the only redeemable thing about the campaigns.
>>
>>1389329
The hard thing isn't necessarily to make it work, but to make it work at a resonable framerate, especially with a large number of active units. That's impressive as hell.
>>
Are custom games in SC2 alive? Played it back in the day and I am thinking about replaying the campaigns and may be some customs.
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>>1389338
No I mean the UED successfully controlled the new merged-Cerebrate Overmind with drugs, everything was working as planned until Kerrigan killed the thing.
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>>1389971
Hope you like tower defence
>>
>>1389341
writing and characters were pretty fucking good aside from LotV honestly, talking with the zerg creatures was kino and every character in WoL had memorable scenes. I think most people just skip the optional dialogues between missions, which is like 80% of the screentime for most characters, which is a shame. LotV is fucking boring though, the only characters worth speaking to are Alarak and sometimes Vorazun woman, the rest are boring as shit. I wanted to strangle Karax by the end of the game cause he was so bland. Doesn't help that Artanis is so neutered as well, he is so passive compared to Jim and Kerrigan it's surreal, dude just has no agency whatsoever.
>>
>>1390479
One of my favorite starcraft lines has gotta be Stukov and Kerringan bantering about dieing "curled up", Stukov's voice actor is seriously underrated.
>>
>>1390481
got a link to that? I think I've listened to all character interactions between missions in the expansions but I don't remember that one.
>>
>>1390489
Looked it up on youtube, it's right before the final assault on korhal, Kerrigan says "might as well lay down and die" in relation to why she'll try to go after Amon after she's done with Mengsk, to which Stukov says "I wouldn't want to die laying down" with a chuckle, it's pertty good.

I also enjoy most of the banter between Zagara and Kerrigan, as well as Jim and Tychus and Jim and Horner. I should do a wings of liberty playthrough where I keep Hanson on the ship as long as I can, she must have plenty of dialogue I've yet to hear. There's gotta be some obscure lines depending on what order you do missions in, eh?
>>
>>1372303
never felt like Kerrigan had some masterplan, mor e like she was just the best at adapting to shitty situations
>>
>>1377271
No they didn't retcon the UED. It's still there and waiting...and there won't be a sequel sadly and the story sucked.
>>
>>1382532
Sucks they completely humanized their culture though.
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>>1391201
SC1 already did that with how the Enclave were written. It's the Zerg I'm more upset about because they changed them from being the Xel'Naga's last mistake to just being a ripoff of the backstory of Devilman
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>>1391260
Conclave I meant, not Enclave.
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>>1390161
Yes, but my argument is exactly that: if you remove the current biggest brain somehow, you get a smaller one tearing you a new one. And since the one you control is seriously fucked up on drugs it won't be as efficient as the challenger, and some dumb human is deciding which orders to give it anyway. Scorched earth is the only thing that works against the Zerg, long-term.
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Should I get into starcraft? not really an RTS guy but I love C&C and still salty that my favorite game died
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>>1371638
>It had a good story
What the fuck? Did I step into an alternate reality or something? Was SC2 just OPs first Starcraft (and possibly RTS)?
>>
Solid mission design, and it was nice to have side missions and upgrades/units you unlock throughout the campaign. DOGSHIT ass writing and terrible characters, also the whole moral choice "heads you win, tails you win" shit was absolutely cowardly.
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>>1391534
The original StarCraft's free along with its expansion and so is StarCraft 2 Wings of Liberty, gameplaywise it's like Generals if you given that a go, command centers and workers, but each race is a little different for example:
>Terran rely on SCVs to repair structures and vehicles
>Zerg are all organic so they slowly regenerate health
>Protoss can't repair structures or units but have psionic shields that regenerate
I haven't played SC2 in a long time, might go try and dig up my old box if I can find it, but it's got some QoL stuff from what I've heard but the story's got problems.
>>
>>1391474
yeah but that's the whole point, the UED controls the overmind, there's no outside zerg broods to form a counter-overmind
>>
>>1371638
>It had a good story
>Space elves have a prophecy of Ancient Evil(tm) and two messiah are to fight it off.
Come on now, it's an absolute shit.
>>
>>1391547
Gamers have zero media literacy
>>
>>1391558
>>Protoss can't repair structures or units but have psionic shields that regenerate
Plasma shields. They have psi fields that give build radius, also zealots have psi blades.
>>
>>1391781
Sorry about that.
pic unrelated
>>
I've been playing the custom campaigns people made where you go through that campaign but as a different faction (like doing WoL as the Zerg with all of the HotS campaign-exclusive stuff, or LotV with Terrans). It's actually a lot more fun than I thought it would be, I'm enjoying going through WoL as Protoss with the Spear's abilities. They gave the map enemies stuff they got in later expansions like zerg having roaches.
>>
Does anyone ladder? Everytime I attempt to keep at it I get salty when I'm against someone with 10k more games than me in 2 leagues above me
>>
>>1371711
>>1371655
Cope
SC2 is space opera KINO

Kerrigan x James OTP
>>
>>1396728
fuck off, tourist
>>
Kerrigan is Queen and literally me
No irony, kys faggots
>>
>>1392268
i get matches after like 2 secs of que and it's 1 AM

I'M in shitter leagues though at 3300
>>
>>1382042
>Schwann
Hans, take it slow with the Weiss
>>
>>1396845
It's more that I get matched with people wildly above what I assume I should be getting.
>>
>>1396861
For some reason I always remembered it as Schwann, not Swann
>>
>>1392268
leagues are bugged half the time, just look at mmr.
>>
>>1372279
>even the campaign shows the supremacy of the Protoss BVLL over Terran and Zerg virgins who do nothing but simp and whine
En Taro Adun, Executors.
>>
>>1372279
While cool, I feel like they'd fuck it up and basically have the artifact show up out of nowhere with as a deus ex machina weapon
>>
Saudibros... I kneel.
>>
>>1400435
>reddit anally-annihilated
>tourney is physically in Riyadh so it single-handedly purges out all the troons since they'd get beheaded going there
>blockbuster player lineup anyways
>SC2 + Brood War unity lineup
wtf I love Islam now??????????
>>
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>>1400435
Will any princes be playing?
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>>1371638
naaa i didnt like how almost every mission was timed or on a soft timer, masking how small the maps were and rushing you through the game. fuck that i want to play an rts on my own time and enjoy it not to be rushed forward.
>>
when will the nova mission packs be cracked bros? i wanna replay starcraft 2 but im waiting for these to be cracked first. will i have to wait a decade or what?
>>
Are they going to make a new expansion?
What would it be about?
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>>1402607
Is there anything left for StarCraft?
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>>1371638
>mary sue chosen one which all present characters from previous game sworn to butcher for betraying them is mordaciously forgiven to save the universe from evildumb villian
>good story
made me reply/10
>>
>>1371638
never played lotv
low key still feel bad about it
>>
>>1402903
If HotS never existed and we went straight from dead Kerrigan in WoL to Raynor leaving the whole Amon thing to Artanis, it would've been remembered as one of the best stories Blizzard has done.
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>>1403931
Just make Stukov the main character in the zerg expansion and you got a done deal.
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>>1402861
The Bizzard did it all over again with Sylvanas.
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>>1403945
Nah mate, Zagara is where it's at. Abathur is cool too.

>>1403931
Yeah that would've been based. Amon takes over the zerg and artanis fights him, beats him

Then the third expansion is amonless zerg coming together and terrorizing the worlds again. Then at the end of SC2 we'd be at a similar ending to BW where there's still a status quo.

SC2 is so fucking gay man, Terrans are still cool cause there's political strife (plus there's the UED), but Protoss are now a unified race with no reason to ever bring harm to humans and the Zerg are completely leaderless, as cool as Zagara is, I hardly think they could've set her up as a new legitimate villain as she is practically an animal. She wouldn't have the same amount of political conniving that Kerrigan had and she wouldn't have the same unknowable intrigue the Overmind had.

Stukov wouldn't work either since he wouldn't bring harm to humans. The whole reason why Zerg was so scary in BW was cause they were faceless and soulless, just mindless killing machines, as soon as you put a rational, thinking creature at their head the whole coolness factor just goes away.

They fucked up with the Zerus lore retconning as well.

How would (You) fix the Zerg? They would have to be given some new purpose, one that doesn't involve another overmind or brainless expansion. The entire race would have to be repurposed
>>
>>1372622

Let’s be honest even if they had sub factions in multiplayer you still wouldn’t play it because you’re a cnc 3 brainlet.
>>
>>1372743

I can’t play StarCraft the post.
>>
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>>1404444
Nice quads but assuming a sub-faction system was implemented in the first place would these be ideal Terran sub-factions?
>United Earth Directorate
>Terran Dominion
>Raynor's Raiders
Protoss would obviously be divided between the Conclave and the Dark Templars and I'm not sure about the Zerg.
>cnc 3
Little off-topic but I've been avoiding TibWars until I finish Tiberian Dawn.
>>1404446
How is the multiplayer for StarCraft nowadays? With the remaster are there still people sticking around with the original version?
I've only played the campaigns so far so I don't know what the multiplayer scene is like.
Not those anons.
>>
>>1404444
I was "practicing" BW on LAN with other "players" probably before you were born.
>>
>>1404310
Like you mentioned, Terrans are the still interesting faction that will never stop infighting. Center the next entry in the series about them. The age of peace following SC2 gives Terrans room to boom, lesder to either further conflict between Korprulu sector Terrans or UED or someone else showing upt os start shit, which eventually ends up dragging Zerg and Protoss into it. Maybe some other asshole gives weaponizing the Zerg another try or something.
>>
>>1404444
>subfactions were a tib war thing
Generals started subfactions and did them better.
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>>1405023
Well, Red Alert 2 started it but I guess one unit per country wasn't a huge thing.
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>>1405033
Doesn't feel like it really counts in RA2, since it's limited to a unique unit that doesn't really change how a faction plays all that much. Many of them are so irrelevant that the AI factions that use them the least tend to beat the others. Iraqi brutal AI repeatedly comes out on top over other Soviets because they build two Desolators and then just do baseline Soviet shit, meaning they'll use Apocalypse Tanks and Kirovs more than the rest. That's what the endgame looks like for every Soviet subfaction, while the Allies just deathball Prism Tanks. None of the unique units really affect that.

If the same style of subfactions was applied to Starcraft, it would be considered largely irrelevant. And if you consider that subfactions, then RA1 did it first, with shit like Russia getting faster unit production and Ukraine getting cheaper unit production, or the other way around. I forgot what the Allies did.
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>>1405053
>then RA1 did it first
That's right, I should've remembered from a match I played recently with a friend.
>If the same style of subfactions was applied to Starcraft, it would be considered largely irrelevant.
I guess it probably would, reading up on the Koprulu Sector's history certainly feels like there'd be room for some sub-factions.
>>
>>1405033
DESALITORR REDEEE
>>
Having subfactions in SC2 would be awful, the assymetrical balance would be unachievable. Imagine if terans went from medivacs to medics and dropships, now they play differently versus Z and P, but in a TvT, there would clearly be a more favored "subfaction".

In my opinion the way to do it would be to mix in campaign units one a periodic basis. No subfactions, but lets say from jauary to may, every protoss gas dragoons instead of stalkers, zerg van make vile roaches but cant morph ravagers and terran has wraiths, but no vikings.

They could periodically switch the units each faction has access to, thus keeping the gane varied, bht not having trouble with in-faction power differences between the sub factions.


It'd be awful to que a game and see "wew, great, my opponent's subfaction has a 70% winrate sgainst my subfaction.

And balancing already killed so many cool strats in sc2, with subfactions they would really need to finetune that shit.
>>
>>1404310
The sad thing is almost all the new characters in SC2 are good, but all the returning characters suck ass.
>>
>>1405121
Seperate MP mode and bracket where you create a profile, pick a race for it, get the most basic units and maybe some starter customization points, then play to earn more points and expand your tech tree like in the campaign. Get new units, upgrade or change existing units, unlock new or different abilities, etc. Want a different race or just different build? New profile.
>>
>>1402903
You should play it. The story is pretty shit but the campaign as a game is fantastic.

>>1404466
Multiplayer for both games is still alive and you can find a game in a minute for Brood War and in seconds for SC2. Caveat - Brood War has had static balance for 20 years so even the bottom of the ladder is very high level, and SC2 is on life support dev-wise so it's not very balanced at all.

SC2 also has a vs AI co-op mode if that's more your thing, it's by far the most popular mode to the point I can confidently say people would still be buying stuff for it if Blizzard had kept making it.
>>
>>1405164
I would pay for a Tosh commander, wish they hadn't abandoned this game.
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>>1402645
A Dominion campaign maybe?
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>>1405147
That would be grind-gated and p2w'd so hard that the bankers all over the world would implode from envy.
>>
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>>1405206
Would it be the same without Arcturus Mengsk?
Unless you mean it as a prequel to explain how the Terran Dominion came to power in SC2?
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>>1382130
>On a related note, does anyone care to redpill me on how the Draenei became sexy goat ladies instead of pic related? What did nu-wow do to them?
Metzen just forgot what the Draenei were. He publicly admitted this.
>>
>>1405164
>You should play it.
I have but just not to the end of its campaigns.
>The story is pretty shit but the campaign as a game is fantastic.
I know a bit of the extent of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92CpPdhFo-o
A little like I don't need to play SC2 to know about the extent of some its narrative failings because of the discussions and memes around it, hearing about Kane's Wrath doesn't help much either.
>>
>>1405570
Realistically it would probably be about his son cleaning up trash
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>>1402645
the return of the UED? it's well known the UED expedition in Brood Wars was just the scouting party.
Alternatively, new coop maps and commanders.
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>>1405587
That must've been embarrassing.
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>>1404310
You play as the new overmind. Honestly Heart of the swarm campaign mechanics of choosing what kind of swarm you want was good. Its just Kerrigan being the character that was retarded. She should have been killed and the zerg leaderless and in chaos. I think WoL should have been a more phyrric victory for terrans with Raynor just finding Kerrigan in time weak enough to kill. Heart of the swarm you start as the fledgling overmind (or cerebrate growing into one) and you got Abathur, Zagara, and eventually dahaka to choose how to make your swarm. Maybe even for the first time see the zerg fragmented and infighting with the more independent zerg characters having agendas of their own trying to influence you or usurp you. Could have put RPG elements in too with good/bad/neutral endings depending on choices made, aliens killed, being brutal vs wanting to be alone and thrivine, etc. So much potential wasted because 'Muh Kerrigan'
>>
Primal zergs were a mistake.
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>>1406775
I forgot those
What about them was a mistake?
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>>1405709
At least he was honest about it and they sort of made it work.
Then there's that other franchise where two whole games where based on a retcon that was just headcanon cooked up by literally one employee who originally only had a minor role on the team and it wasn't proven until a cringey sonic fan tier autist made a longwinded video over a decade later.
>>
>>1407053
do share the long winded video, please
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>>1406775
they were extremely lame on every level

>blizzard managed to make survival of the fittest gay
>>
Nah anon, I disagree. The gameplay for all three was terrible. Every single mission could be described as "mass a giant death blob and A move forward". Unless we're talking about HOTS, in which case it was "have Kerrigan one shot everything, then mass a giant death blob and A move forward". And people paid over 200 bucks for this?
>>
>>1388249
>Kerrigan getting away with everything
Anon, you don't understand how bad Blizzard screwed themselves. They retconned Kerrigan being a murderous bitch as her being under someone else's influence, and then had her slaughter several billion people AFTER being deinfested. Her redemption literally made her worse than if they had left it alone.
>>
>>1407368
Yeah. I also remember that all those planets she send the Swarm to terminate stuff (among which places with actual civilian populations)? They were supposed to be actual missions there but were cut out. If they were actual missions instead of being cutscenes then we could've seen if Kerrigan truly redeemed herself or not depending on what were you supposed to do there. If they did those then maybe they would've lessened the impact of Blizzard's idiotic decisions.

I really think that Stukov would've been better for a Zerg campaign.
>Infested UED commander.
>Actually competent leader.
>Him, fellow infested UED soldiers and whatever Zerg creatures have tagged along with them.
>Travels the Koprulu Sector desperately looking for a reason to live...and vodka to drink.
>A whole lot of potential to create a unique campaign with a character as troubled yet badass as Stukov.
This would've been an interesting story. Much more than HoTS itself.
>>
>>1374822
Agreed about the story, utter trash. SC1 story was great.
>>
>>1405023

Generals is a baby game snooze fest.
>>
>>1404548

100% you never been to a LAN and just started playing after remaster. I was playing this shit in LAN cafe at the mall in November of 2001 c rank toss shitter.
>>
>>1407262
In Brood War zerus was described as some volcanic hellscape planet, at least they retconned the place into a pretty cool planet
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>>1407519
I was an admin at a "computer club" in this part of the world. Tell yourself whatever comforting lies you want.
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>>1407383
>Actually competent leader
>fails to communicate his concerns to his superiors
>sabbotages their plans because he knows better
mate, he's a terrible officer.
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>>1407664
In all fairness, Brood war was the start of the bad writing. Every single person had to be a retard just so Kerrigan could pretend to be the queen bitch.
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>>1372628
I feel like the SC2 image is the wrong one to pick because there's nothing WRONG with that statement, things would've been better if she just died at New Gettysburg. What should be the SC2 image is from the ending of HotS where she's flying away and Raynor says something like "anytime, Darlin" because THAT is the betrayal of everything he said before. Hell it's a betrayal of even an earlier conversation in HotS when she breaks Raynor out of prison and he sees that she reinfested hersel
>What have you done?
>What I had to.
>Tell that to Fenix. Tell it to the millions you butchered!

>>1388249
>>1407368
People act like this is a change in the writers to have Kerrigan get away with everything, but even in SC1, Kerrigan was a massive mary sue
>he's this super special awesome female ghost who is more pyschic than normal psychics, and now we're going to turn her into a unique super zerg that's better than all the other zerg, oh and also she outwits and defeats every other faction in the game
If you thought SC2 wasn't going to keep treating her as a giant mary sue, I don't know what to tell you.

>>1407664
Literally everyone in the UED except for him was a giant retard, if for no other reason than the fact that no one but him every suspected Duran
>>
>>1407953
To be fair she had an exceptional psychic potential yet she wasn't so OP even after she got infested. It was a long time since I played SC, but didn't she get to cast lightning storms only after that one mission inside a Science Vessel?

Also she outwitted everyone by pretending to simply be free of the Overmind's control and still being at least somewhat the old Kerrigan.
>>
>>1406810
Completely disconnected from what zergs were presented as in sc1 and bw.
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>>1408283
>It was a long time since I played SC, but didn't she get to cast lightning storms only after that one mission inside a Science Vessel?
Basically what happened was she actually had super psychic powers but the Confederacy actively suppresse them with mental locks when they conditioned her, and the Science Vessel mission was to unlock her potential.
It still doesn't change that she's the only human who has psionic power on par with a fucking protoss
>>
>>1408611
Yeah, it basically just turned them into the demons in the backstory of Devilman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAWczh2fxPk
Which is wierdly coincidental since the demon that Akira the main character merges with is named Amon. I wonder if they had seen the work, I mean they straight up have an Escaflowne reference in SC1.
>>
>>1409134
Not the vid I meant to link, meant it to be this one which is a lot closer to that Zerus cinematic in terms of the "constantly evolving to eat each other" aspect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2xECHF9jTI
>>
>>1371638
OP I totally agree with you the WoL campaign is pretty much the quintessentially great 'classic style' RTS campaign. Loads of variety, great gameplay, etc. etc. etc.
On the story though I disagree.
starcraft 1 had a great little story
brood war started going off the rails: the Duran plotline was bizarre, and it never made sense to me (even as a kid) how if the UED is showing up (which is supposed to be a gigantic interstellar empire far more powerful than the backwater redneck accidental prison colony terrans), they are aren't arriving with way better and way more gear and far outclassing everyone (so it relies on dumb plot contrivances to make them lose)
Then starcraft 2 WoL had a pretty bad story which basically got rid of the UED for plot reasons fine, but then kind of had a silly tone (le silly nerd scientist character! he cuts himself shaving!) and brought back the awful duran / narud shit, and made everything into ancient evil prophecy nonsense. at the time I was willing to overlook it
But then the two expansions came out and they were really unforgivable shit
>>
>>1409132
Well these kinds of things are supposed to be rare among humans at this point. Psionically gifted individuals are rare among humans and someone of Kerrigan's potential is even rarer when compared to Protoss who have it as a common thing. Kerrigan happened to have those and became a capture target for the Zerg. And just because someone happens to have a psychic level on the level of a Protoss doesn't mean they are a Mary Sue and actually was done well in the original game.

It's SC2 where she went dindu nuffin just affected by external forces because the writers decided it so. Everyone else wanted her dead and SC2 should've went that way.
>>
>>1372671
>That's because large amounts of the storylines of both Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void were cut
are they written anywhere?
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>>1371638
>shitty derivitive gameplay
>boring flat soulless characters
>worthless copy+paste "EPIC" story
>totally unrelated to Starcraft 1, countless retcons
>blizzard
>activision
>SK esports was lukewarm about it at best
>SK esports scene died after multiple scandals
>all content creators jumped ship
>ruined aesthetics with literal cartoon bullshit from some shitty youtuber
>ruined game even further by adding characters to Heroes of the Storm

Just die, Blizzard. Please. Just die and don't come back.
>>
>>1371638
>Warcraft 3 good
>people enjoy custom WC3 maps
>"Oh hey, this DOTA is fun!"
>DOTA gets popular
>blizzard actively harms it's ums community, forcing them away
>DOTA2 made
>"NOOOOOOO IT WAS OUR IDEA YOU STOLE IT FROM BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!"
>ruins SC2 by gimping custom maps, so no map can ever be as popular as DOTA
>SC2 custom maps die because it's gimped by blizzard
>SC2 "pro" scene dies because of endless cheating scandals
>game dies
>Bizzard makes shitty, shitty Heroes of the Storm anyways, nobody ever cares in the slightest about it"
>rapes WC3 to death 20 years later, with a shitty outsourced "remake"

lmao???
>>
>>1409293
>And just because someone happens to have a psychic level on the level of a Protoss doesn't mean they are a Mary Sue
Well no, it was Brood War's writing that did that where she just never faces any comeuppance for anything.
>>
>>1409765
Well because she managed to become the top dog in the Koprulu sector while everyone else is weakened and crippled.
And everyone thought that with SC2 karma would eventually catch up to her and the Queen Bitch of The Universe would be dethroned. And she got away with it by the power of atrocious writing and favorism.
>>
>>1409381
>>ruined aesthetics with literal cartoon bullshit from some shitty youtuber
This was the worst for me. I could tune out the retcons and the retarded plot, but toilet humour tier Zerg after Giger-inspired Zerg in the original were the last straw.
>>
>>1409392
The worst thing about this is that they went back and fixed the SC2 map editor to the point where it's vastly better than anything WC3 ever had, but since they did it so late all of the people who would've been enthusiastic about it had already left, now we've ended up with a shitload of pretty cool and soulful UMS content, about the existence of which like 0.1% of the playerbase is even aware of.
>>
>>1410309
I haven't played HotS, what are you referring to?
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>>1409961
What I was wondering is how it was possible that Brood War ended with Kerrigan absolutely dominating the main protoss fleet while raping both the native terrans and the UED in the sector right after killing the UED controlled overmind, while SC2 started with Zergs not being anywhere at all, and just now coming back for the shiny artifact rocks?

When SC1 ended you get the impression that Zerg took the whole sector, that all terrans are broken and will be destroyed and that the Protoss are completely unmatched and have to flee after both Aiur and Shakuras got destroyed. Plus now that the Overmind is dead, it's time for Kerrigan to go from barely winning her battles via deceit and competence to having overwhelming military strength.

SC2 starts with "oh yeah and when zerg won, Kerrigan decided to pursue french cuisine and masonry as her next vocations and thus didn't destroy the humans in the sector, including Mengsk, the man who is going to be the main antagonist and who should've never had a chance to escape :)"
>>
>>1410890
It's okay, there was a timeskip so we could see depressed Raynor, so they totally don't have to worry about what happened right after SC1.
>>
>>1383139
I remember some SC1 players complaining about this when SC2 was released becouse it "made the game too easy"
>>
>>1410887
Just the way Zerg look and sound even in WoL.
>>
>>1410890
My impression is that instead of risking to overextend she pulled back a little to consolidate and make sure she can actually efficiently and reliably control that overwhelming military strength. If she still relies on cerebrates, which she probably has to, they do have some individuality and if they are genetically predisposed to have a proper overmind than they might disobey her because they would believe her to be defective.
>>
>>1410890
Nah. The Zerg were insanely massive and the Protoss had the advantage of the Overmind not knowing where Aiur is until Zeratul accidentally linked with one of the Cerebrates while killing it and "sending" the coordinates to the giant one-eyed brain. So even with a massive armada they still didn't have a snowlfake's hope from surviving a head-on encounter with all those flyers. Also what? Aiur and Shakuras were not destroyed. Both had however a serious case of Zerg infestation which was completely purged in case of Shakuras.

Both Terrans and Protoss were weakened at the end of BW and Kerrigan went to consolidate her power over the swarm. She knew nobody could match her might so she allowed everyone to simply go and live on knowing she won't be threatened.

And then cut to SC2 and look what they did to her, the Zerg, the other two races and so on...

>>1410915
This. Then SC2 came and she replaced all the Cerebrates with Queens after mutating them into the ground units they are now.
I liked SC Zerg more than SC2. SC2 smell of 4th and onward Tyranids.
>>
>>1410918
>she replaced all the Cerebrates with Queens after mutating them into the ground units they are now
Wait what? How does that even work? Why don't a brood go apeshit and kills anything within sight if their queen is killed?

Also forgot to add in that post that she could have probably been concerned about psi-emitters/disruptors or some derived technology.
>>
>>1410936
Simple. She replaced the Cerebrates with Queens who got mutated into a more specialized form as you see in SC2. Still I find it questionable when Cerebrates were fine. Then again she probably wanted to avoid another situation where they'd fuse into a new Overmind which did happen in BW.

Also since she had tons of Zerg under her command then she didn't bother if the psi-emitters would pull in some of them.
>>
>>1411021
>She replaced the Cerebrates with Queens who got mutated into a more specialized form as you see in SC2.
>Also since she had tons of Zerg under her command then she didn't bother if the psi-emitters would pull in some of them.
Remember when in SC1 Zasz was slain and its brood turned against everyone else? This is what I'm asking about. Why don't SC2 broods whose queens were slain go crazy? Because the SC2 queens sure as fuck don't immediately reform after their body dies unless killed with dark templar magic.
>>
>>1410918
This would imply that Kerrigan wasn't such a bad guy after all and that she never was actually murderous, just wanted to make sure she's on top as far as power is concerned, which is not what she acts like in SC2 at all, she's single minded, cocky and completely incompetent. If she was even a little reasonable the whole campaign wouldn't have even happened.

Now that I think of it, we never actually learn why the fuck Kerrigan wanted the Artifact. Zeratul learns that it can be used to defeat Amon, but Kerrigan didn't know that, so why the fuck did she come out of hiding for them? I feel like there's a different draft of the story where Kerrigan already knows what Narud is doing and wants to stop him.

Holy shit I just remembered Narud's character, SC2 sucks so much dick, damn... :(


>>1410936
>>1411021
>>1411027
Cerebrates got replaced with queens due to a gentlemen's agreement with the Warhammer people.

Why don't broods go apeshit like they are supposed to? Uhh, don't think about it bro... I mean, Zagara just re-hatches from an egg in Co-op, right?
>>
>>1411041
Don't know what a Zagara is, but in the actual Starcraft game, v1.0, a cerebrate immediately reincarnates without even really dying on that very same spot unless slain by a dark templar. Even the overmind just crashes a big rock into Aiur and just grows into the place in what looks like several minutes. So unless it requires an overmind (the overmind? Does it have the same soul every time it is made manifest?) for instant reincarnation and Kerrigan is simply not strong enough to let them restore instantly it's another bullshit retcon.
>>
>>1407953
>but even in SC1, Kerrigan was a massive mary sue
Im replaying SC1 now, and Kerrigan is made out to be a reckless fool. Tassadar tricked her and Zasz died as a result. Her response is just being angry at the protoss.
>>
>>1411051
He mostly meant the BW campaign. It has coloured his perception of everyone. Most of the people today who like Starcraft have never played it without the expansion.
>>
>>1411051
>>1411057
Coloured everyone's perception of her. I suppose I have put off sleep for long enough.
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>>1411049
I was just kidding, Zagara is a broodmother, the things which replaced cerebrates in SC2.

There is nothing that sets them apart from other zerg except that they can control the swarm like the Overmind/cerebrates could. No reincarnation, no nothing, so the toss or terran could just nuke the broodmother from orbit and voila, the zerg are rendered completely mindless, it is lazy and clearly the devs forgot how important the cerebrate's reincarnation was in BW
>>
Nova Campaign crack when???
>>
>>1371711
Starcraft 1:
Good space opera story
Good stealing from alien/warhammer40k/predator
Good multiplayer and map edit scene
Boring campaign missions
Terrible unit pathfinding

Starcraft 2:
Bad story
Bad stealing from world of warcraft type storylines
Good unit pathfinding
Good worldbuilding
Middling multiplayer
Poor map edit scene
Great gimmick missions in wings of liberty
Mission quality terribly in sequels.

Where am I wrong?
>>
>>1410877
I remember the early days when someone had used the map editor to make a functional fps, including flying vehicles that you could shoot and shoot from.

I thought the map editor was always powerful. But it was gated, controlled. You couldnt easily edit a map and get people to play it.

The biggest failure of SC2 is that blizzard wanted to control too much. Sc1 became big precisely because it was so open. But blizzard was jealous of all the games it spawned and also the whole korean pro scene that they didnt profit from.
>>
>>1418656
Map edit scene is fine imo, SC2 just has so much shit that between four camapgns, 20 coop commanders, 1v1 and team ladders, custom games and direct strike, only a very small portion of players play UMS games.

It's not that the games aren't great, it's just that there's too much cool shit that keeps new players' attention.

In SC1 you would play the campaign a couple times and then you would go play 1v1 or team games, realize you can't play for shit and then go for BGH or UMS maps, SC2 just has soooo much it drowns out user made content.

Play Before Darkness Falls btw, it's one of the many hidden gems in the arcade scene
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>>1419248
well that's just your opinion
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>>1372628
>What the fuck happened
Because zeratul
Zeratul somehow convince him
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>>1418656
>Boring campaign missions
Wouldn't call them boring, just replayed the original (sans BW) campaigns about 2 weeks ago. At the time they were slightly above average because the genre was still relatively new. By now it should still be decent for a player completely new to the genre.
>>
>>1410890
>What I was wondering is how it was possible that Brood War ended with Kerrigan absolutely dominating the main protoss fleet while raping both the native terrans and the UED in the sector right after killing the UED controlled overmind, while SC2 started with Zergs not being anywhere at all
They explicitly mention that at the end of BW, she pulled the Zerg back to Char and waited, with everyone knowing that eventually she'd return.
>>
>>1411051
Yeah it's cuz of BW, Kerrigan honestly isn't that much of an entity in SC1, in fact her getting infested just kinda felt like setup for BW and nothing else.
>>
>>1418656
I would say the missions are only really terrible in HotS, they were fine in LotV even if they never really reached WoL-level again. If we're talking in terms of actually playing the levels.
>>
>>1419853
How about I explicitly mention that you're retarded
>>
>>1411074
im fairly certain Zagara reincarnates many times during the Baneling mission where you fight her
she says shit like "i live again"
and Abathhur revives an Ultralisk in front of Stukov, i think any zerg can be revived
>>
>>1371704
literally nobody cares
>>
>>1419248
Based Before Darkness Falls enjoyer. I just wish the guy had more time to make more missions and finally add goliaths and vultures in, and not with a gay ass restriction like the specialist who each player can only get one of.
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>>1420296
In the baneling mission Zagara dunnels underground when she dies

Reincarnation is not established at all, it's just a shitty gameplay gimmick because they thought losing hero units would be too punishing.
>>
>>1410918
It would be equivalent of germans crushing allied landing in france and ussr under kursk and then withdrawing all the way to germany :)
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>>1420660
Yeah. Kinda like that.
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>>1409157
>(le silly nerd scientist character! he cuts himself shaving!)
Really don't get this one since the people who wrote said character are also losers.
>>
I really like hero units
Legacy of the Void has a mission towards the end where you get Fenix, Alarak, Artanis and a few others.
I was playing Age of Mythology recently and that has lots of hero units too.
Very cool.
>>
>>1382532
I liked the details, for however shitty the story was Legacy of the Void put in a ton of work for Protoss visual design and a lot of that can be seen in female Protoss. Like at a glance they’re smaller than the males, lack wrinkles around the face, have smooth crests (male crests are heavily striated), and much wider hips (we still don’t know if Protoss lay eggs or give birth but the women are clearly pushing something out of there). It felt like a very nice touch from the devs as opposed to just bolting tits on them and calling it a day.
>>
>>1405164
>it's by far the most popular mode to the point I can confidently say people would still be buying stuff for it if Blizzard had kept making it.
Definitely. I admit I can't think of many characters that would make good commanders without being ridiculous even from a non-canon standpoint. Selendis for dedicated skytoss? Tosh for specters and mercenaries? Valerian and Warfield as a set like Han and Horner? BW callbacks like Overmind and Tassadar? Knowing Blizzard they'd probably try to add that godawful fucking xel'naga manatee before BW characters.

I think it would be better to go back and rebalance older commanders and some prestiges to be better. Many of the first releases like Raynor, Artanis, and Vorazun are just kind of bad even when not compared to other better commanders. Han and Horner is one of the later releases but is the worst of them all. For some reason Blizzard stopped giving a fuck about balancing with the last four commanders, which all break the game and can easily solo most challenges (although Mengsk wouldn't be particularly overpowered if he didn't have those gay earthsplitters to cheese everything). Abathur and Dehaka are also far above the rest of the commanders once they escape their shitty early games.

Other than that I'd like to see more missions added, maybe new weekly mutators too. But I don't know why I bother writing this post and Blizzard is physically incapable of even basic QA and bug fixes now. Ever since the server maintenance last Thursday, thousands of players (including me) have had Raynor/Kerrigan/Artanis all reset to level 5 and unable to gain experience. The game demands that you purchase them to continue leveling up, even though they're supposed to be free for everyone, and of course doesn't provide a way to purchase them because of that. It's been days.
>>
>>1426599
>Tosh for specters and mercenaries?
That's basically already Nova.
As someone that plays Co-op almost every day (Tychus main), there are a few more playstyle types they can go with. And with Tychus, Zeratul and Mengsk they're no longer against using characters who have died in canon, and with Stetman they use characters that are already mission control for the stage. I've gotten most commanders to at least 10 if not 15. The real problem is we're starting to run out of characters that aren't basically literal whos. Like here's the list
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Characters
We've already got the majority of the good ones
>Other than that I'd like to see more missions added,
And while they're at it, either remove Part and Parcel or tell the chick in it to shut the fuck up
>>
>>1426744
>remove Part and Parcel
It's a fine mission. The announcer is a bitch but not that bad. The only map I actually dislike playing is cradle of death. Stone manages to be even more annoying than Davis with his truck autism.
>>
Talking Zerg is the single most retarded concept in this game
I can excuse SC1, because it made sense when Kerrigan was around, but all other instances are extremely retarded
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>>1426993
>The announcer is a bitch but not that bad.
She talks every 5 seconds, that's the issue.
>Stone manages to be even more annoying than Davis with his truck autism.
True, and worse it's a stage I can't even solo in the event my partner is a retard, I HAVE to tardwrangle him. Same issue I have with Lock and Load and Chain of Ascension.
>>
>>1426994
I don't disagree that it's retarded, but in fairness every talking zerg in SC2 is a brood leader and thus on the level of a cerebrate, and they all talked in SC1.
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>>1426994
>Talking Zerg is the single most retarded concept in this game
Not the vomit/fart/pus/shit Zerg after Giger-inspired Zerg in SC1?
>>
>>1427582
>I HAVE to tardwrangle him
CoD gets punished a lot more for having a shitty partner than the others, and it honestly just isn't a fun map even without that mechanic. Lock and Load is an overall easy fast map that doesn't need too much coordination with your ally, as long as he gets to the recently cleared lock before I clear the next one then I don't care much. Chain of Ascension is fine, I often tell my ally to have one of their workers follow one of mine (with the idle worker hotkey on one of my mouse buttons) for the entire game and that really helps.
>>
I beat Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty today and it was very good.
Getting to control the Protoss for a few missions was cool
My favourite missions were helping Nova defeat the Spectres and destroying the Nydus Canals with the boys on Char.
>>
>>1427878
I would say the later campaigns are worth the money, but it's all downhill from here. HotS has too much of a focus on the hero and some of the worst writing Blizzard has ever shat out. LotV saves it but still doesn't reach WoL quality. The epilogue is actually the worst writing Blizzard has ever shat out with terribly designed missions.
The Nova missions are really cool.
>>
>>1410890
Brood wars writing was fucking ass. Kerrigan was the most mary sue character ever written literally everyone trusts her for no reason and forms an alliance including the protoss with her to destroy the UED in the second campaign even after she in the first fucking campaign kills aldaris and literally tells them she only wanted to help them to gain complete control of the zerg. Then Somehow the UED fleet admiral trusts some random fucktard confederate over his childhood friend and fellow admiral about the psionic disruptor and then leaves a tiny fucking garrison to defend it only after he is killed in betrayal and even then somehow the zerg can still be controlled by kerrigan even with the disruptor running 24/7 then she betrays her allies and without their help manages to defeat the UED with the vast majority of the zerg under their control because they control the overmind then goes on to destroy 3 entire full sized fleets of protoss and terran all at the same time somehow even when it is very much mentioned she is outnumbered.
>>
>>1427878
If you want, there's custom campaigns to do the main campaigns playing as a different faction. But I would suggest actually playing those campagins vanilla first if you haven't before because they actually go into how the special campaign units work.
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>>1427709
The Zerg are meat bugs, meat comes with lots of bodily fluids, but the in-engine design is absolute shit
Prerendered cutscene Zerg are much closer to the original SC
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>>1427878
>he betrayed niggerbro
I can excuse it if you didn't listen to his dialogues between mission
>>
>>1427939
My man you're just plain wrong
1) they did not trust Kerrigan after she killed Aldaris, it is only Fenix who makes a deal with Kerrigan on behest of Jimbo and Mengsk who are desperate, it is made clear that they do not trust her from the getgo and are only using the Zerg as a tool, which bites them in the ass, again.

2) DuGalle trusting Duran is the single most retarded thing in the whole game, you're right, Alexei should've mysteriously died beforehand or something for the Psi Distruptor's destruction to make sense.

3) Kerrigan can't control shit, she loses her command of the zerg and it is Mengsk with his counter-disruptor and Jim who saves her ass and helps her destroy the Psi Disruptor, that's literally the first two missions of the zerg campaign.
I don't think it is such a big stretch to assume that Kerrigan can retain control of like 5 dudes even with the psi disruptor going.

4) Kerrigan winning makes sense, the assault on the Overmind is a hit and run where Kerrigan and Zeratul manage to kill the Overmind before the UED can really retaliate

5) Kerrigan's victory against the three fleets on char is a bit of a stretch, but that's literally (You) the player making the magic happen, which I think is cool. Plus form a lore point of view, you could argue that after the death of the Overmind Kerrigan has full control over the renegade zerg and easily crushes the UED, Mengsk's shitboxes and the protoss.
The only baffling thing about Brood War which you neglected to mention is that Kerrigan decided to kill off her allies before she gained control of the full swarm. I find it difficult to believe that this was done for any reason aside from making the Climax of the game more interesting.

Imagine if Kerigan had killed the Overmind, destroyed the UED and then the final two missions are "oh yeah btw you should go kill these infinitely less powerful enemies now".
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>>1428949
Keep Tosh.
Kill the doctor.
God's in his heaven, all's right with the world.
>>
>>1429013
>Kill the doctor.
God even back then I thought that shit was stupid. At least with Tosh you're simply deciding whether or not to side with someone, but with Hanlon her being infested or not literally just depends on if you believe her or Selendis and not any hard reality.
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>>1429050
Nah mon, it be da trust ya put in her dat helps her save her peepol.
>>
I wish Starcraft 2 had gotten more content.
Even though the story kind of dropped off I still loved the gameplay.
All of the large scale battle missions with lots of ai allies was really cool.
Starcraft 3 or another mission pack soon.
>>
Does anyone here still play Starcraft 2 Coop?
I am playing as Jim Raynor at the moment and I am level 13
It is fun
>>
>>1371638
>RPG roleplaying elements
*RPG roleplaying game elements
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>>1371638
didnt they make nova a coal burner? the games suck and one of the only thing its known for now is the "i must return to my planet" memes

game was made after blizzard was already dead so it never had a chance
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>>1431143
Yeah man I do it all the time, I wish there was a harder mode to play than Brutal+ without being in a party

I don't really care to team up with someone but the commanders are just so busted, regular B+ is usually way too easy
>>
>>1429300
doubt we get SC3 anytime soon, the minds behind SC2 and WC3 wanted to make a sequel, either sc3 or wc4 in late 2010s but blizzard declined so they left the company and made frost giant. Stormgate is the best chance for a spiritual successor.
>>
>>1431143
It is fun, and if you think it's fun with Raynor you have a lot more in store for you. He's arguably the simplest, most standard, most boring commander of them all. He's also one of the weakest and most unforgiving to bad play, despite being one of the only commanders Blizzard advertises as beginner friendly. The AOE enemy compositions from zerg and protoss can rape the shit out of him.
Artanis is much more forgiving, and Kerrigan has a much higher power level. Abathur is also labeled beginner friendly despite being trash at low levels and having a very hard early game to master.
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>>1428989
1- Jim should not have been retarded enough to have saved mengsk and trusted kerrigan his 2 worst fucking enemies in order to kill humans hes barely interacted with like what problem with the UED did him and the protoss have? The UED only ran into them when they saved mengsks ass from public execution, especially when the first thing they do after teaming up is attack and kill a neutral terran power for resources for kerrigan to make more zerg because thats totally a good idea that everyone wants.
2- yea theres no way around that one shit writing
3- fair enough i forgot about mengsk literally giving kerrigan uninterrupted control of the zerg because that's something he would do rather than just going back to his old ways and fighting a guerilla war against the UED.
4-5 not really. In the 3 fleets mission its mentioned that the FUCKING ZERG are outnumbered by these fleets and the overmind was surrounded by all the zerg on char and already assloads of UED troops garrisoning it is literally where their entire main fleet was located since they were studying the zerg
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>>1429300
I wish they didn't announce there's never gonna be another coop dude.

>>1431143
erry day

>>1431749
>and most unforgiving to bad play
No that's definition Swann. You have to put in so much more work as Swann to reach the same level of efficiency as another commander just playing normally.
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>>1431749
>despite being one of the only commanders Blizzard advertises as beginner friendly
At this point I'm convinced they labelled that purely to mean "for people who don't want to pay any money" because anyone that tells me Stukov, Tychus, Dehaka or Nova are "for experienced players" is incapable of playing this game without passing out from forgetting to breathe. 3 of those commanders have I Win buttons and Tychus turns the game into a WC3 custom hero map
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>>1371638
Okay here's the official canon power level ranking for the Starcraft campaigns from best to worst:

>SC2: Wings of Liberty
>Starcraft: Rebel Yell
>Starcraft: The Fall
>Brood Wars: The Iron Fist
>Starcraft: Overmind
>Brood Wars: The Queen of Blades
>SC2: Legacy of the Void + Prologue and Epilogue
>SC2: Covert OPs
>Brood Wars: The Stand
>SC2: Heart Of The Swarm
>Starcraft Demo: Precursor Campaign
>>
>>1431869
Not bad, but I would put sc2 covert ops higher, and I would give sc2 lotv epilogue its own ranking at the very bottom.
>>
>>1431869
But where would LotV rank without the epilouge attached to it?
>>
How do I play as Stetmann?
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>>1431880
maybe 1 or 2 spaces higher
the Robo-Protoss, Karax and humanization of their culture weakened it
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>>1427939
In fairness, wasn't the UED commander Fr*nch?
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>>1431888
>Karax
>weakening it
I could not disagree more. The Robo-Protoss I mostly agree but I like what they did with "Fenix" by the end. I mean it was predictable what they were going to do but I still liked it.
And I don't know, I never really saw the whole "the protoss became more humanized in LotV" angle because SC1 Protoss was all about petty Conclave politics destroying them as a society and how they need to learn to get past their prejudices. If anything LotV's issue is that it kinda retreads what the previous game already did in that regard.
>>
>>1431884
Abuse Super Gary to push. Do double prestige so that you get the one that basically doubles Gary's stats in exchange for being way slower outside of zones (which Super Gary can make on his own anyway)
>>
Have any of you got the raid night achievement?
It entails beating Wings of Liberty in under 8 hours.
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>>1433120
Yeah it's easy, it only factors in the combined mission times in the archives. Time you spend on the hyperion doesn't count, and you can keep redoing missions in the archives until you get good enough times.
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>>1433136
Very good, I am beginning a new campaign to try out Drop Pods and the Hive Mind Emulator.
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>>1431869
>WoL on top
I didn’t even read the rest.
>>
I was playing Jim Raynor in coop mode
My allies often played as commanders that start with a Hero unit
Their Hero unit is more than capable of taking out the first objective by itself whilst I am waiting for the reactor on my first Barracks to finish building.
I drop podded some units onto the second objective just to get my participation prize
I have a feeling that some commanders might be a bit more powerful than others.
>>
Has anyone ever seen the Coop Commanders on offer/discount?
I tried searching google but I was unable to find much.
>>
>>1433713
Yeah hero commanders tend to be better especially in the early game, with some exceptions. Raynor is pretty garbage and relies on his calldowns for early game power, which new players will easily waste without knowing objective/attack wave timings and locations.

Mengsk plays a lot like Raynor but just better with way stronger early game. The issue with him is his army for p2 and p3 plays a lot better than p0 and p1. Once you get mastery levels, his p3 has one of the strongest early games of any commander with no hero at all. Zagara is very similar, especially her p1.

Another good terran commander is Nova, who is more forgiving and well-rounded than Raynor. Her hero unit isn't as strong as others but does help a lot. Or you can just pick up Tychus and start carrying in brutal at level 1 with a pacifier in your mouth and a loaded diaper.
>>
Hybrid campaign soon.
"Duran: Vengeance of Amon"
>>
>>1434087
>The issue with him is his army for p2 and p3 plays a lot better than p0 and p1.
For Mengsk or Raynor?
>>
>>1434087
>Or you can just pick up Tychus and start carrying in brutal at level 1 with a pacifier in your mouth and a loaded diaper.
Hey now.
Sometimes I like playing Warcraft 3 without playing Warcraft 3.
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>>1435260
Mengsk. His army is about the balance between his troopers (aka muhreens) and his royal guard elite units. His troopers are really weak without p3, and his royal guard are hard to afford without p2. Being stuck in the middle at p0 kind of sucks. Even p0 mengsk is still better than raynor though lol. P1 is about earthsplitters which can cheese half the maps and are gay as fuck, extremely boring too.
>>
>>1371638
SC1 is superior
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>>1433989
Not in a very long time, no.
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>>1435341
There's some commanders that are extremely strong but also boring as fuck. Zagara P1 comes to mind, she's absolutely insane and a load of fun but as soon as you get used to it and figure out the macro, it's just so fucking boring to roll banes and scourge into everything effortlessly.


Raynor and Artanis are often shit on for being extremely weak commanders and while they really are terrible in power level, I find them a lot more fun to play.

What is the most boring commander in your opinion? P1 zagara is at least fun, I'd say P2 Karax is perhaps the most mind numbing of all.
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>>1435359
P2 Karax is fun with immortals that actually need micro to use their abilities. They are faster and better than his carriers too. For boring it would be
>karax p1/swann p2 tower defense
>kerrigan p1 creep simulator (despite most p1 players never putting down a single tumor)
>artanis p0, I like his prestige gimmicks especially p3
>raynor p1
>stukov p0/p3
>tychus anything without mutators, too strong
>mengsk p1
>han horner p0/p3 strike fighters
>>
So dumb question since I've never used the prestiges. When you unlock one do you HAVE to play in that prestige mode up to 15 to unlock the next one on the list or can you just play base mode commander and unlock 1-2-3 that way?
>>
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>>1435594
You don't need to use that prestige and thank fuck because some P1 are just absolutely godawful unfun shit compared to 0/2/3
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>>1435604
>everything for Swann is at the bottom
Lazerbros...
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>>1435604
I've seen worse lists, that one's not too bad.
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>>1435652
Here's a rough one I made just now, but no way am I going to rank them within each tier. I suppose it assumes playing them properly. Prestiges like dehaka p3 and zeratul p2 need a lot of micro and benefit from artifact trapping to earn that S tier, Mengsk p1 is map dependent,Abathur needs to know the early game, etc.
>>
I have played Jim, Kerrigan and Artanis and I would say Kerrigan is the most powerful because she gets a hero unit
Artanis is second because his units are powerful and can be warped in almost anywhere and instantly
Jim Raynor is quite standard but at least he can get instant Supply Depots and Drop Pods
Still early days, I have not finished a mission on Brutal yet.
>>
Does anyone play singleplayer custom campaigns?
I have been playing Wings of Liberty as Protoss
It is quite good.
>>
>>1435941
thinking that insta supply depot is good is the mark of the noob
>>
>>1436127
Yes >>1392092. I should try HotS as Protoss/Terran because I don't remember the actual missions in HotS being bad, it's the story.
>>
>>1392092
My favorite is reversed wings of liberty where you fuck Raynor up every mission. Difficult, and the creator put a lot of effort into it. Raynor has tons of funny spliced lines.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-3vRRLceh4
This is the Legacy of the Void Theme
It is my favourite piece of music from Starcraft.
>>
One flaw with Starcraft 2 is that you never get to play as the Hybrids
Age of Mythology had a cool perspective switching mission where you got to play as the bad guys.
No such thing for Starcraft 2.
>>
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>>1426599
>although Mengsk wouldn't be particularly overpowered if he didn't have those gay earthsplitters to cheese everything
I've gotten P2 on Mengsk and even with a 15% mastery discount on top his royal guard just take too fucking long to build up and complete a mission, I macro out an army faster with fucking Swann. On escort maps and similar where you can't target buildings and win Mengsk just has really shitty fighting power and is much inferior to someone like Tychus or Nova there, who just drop units in and wreck everything while being very tanky and self sustaining and don't have to rebuild 16 ordnances on the other side of the map to do it. Only P3 Mengsk really gets a strong army and he's pretty much just making terran banelings.
I do agree on more missions though, there's not enough variety.
>>1426744
>remove Part and Parcel
>he doesn't like racist grandma who chugs dead hybrid to relax
If anything remove that fat siege tank bitch, she's by far the most annoying announcer, even more than Stetman who has at least one funny line every so often. She tries too fucking hard to sound cool and quirky.
>>1431143
I do, it's fun.
>>1431779
>You have to put in so much more work as Swann to reach the same level of efficiency as another commander just playing normally.
While that's true I just have too much fun dropping sieged tanks with a hercules and instakilling everything, or massing wraiths and pretending I'm playing Brood War until a fucking viper reminds me that zerg is an overpowered piece of shit in both games. Also P1 drill is really nice for early waves.
>>1435669
>P1 Swann isn't the best and is ranked lower than P2
Are you serious? Swann's turrets are incredibly shit and even with the prestige they die incredibly easily. He's a frail, worse Karax that can't even deal as much damage or repair buildings and units for free without the need for SCVs. Hell, even P2 Zeratul is better if you want to mass static defense.
>>
>>1371655
WoL campaign structure and design were great. HotS was MOBA bullshit with Kerrigan hero unit. Never played Protoss one.
>>
>>1440769
P2 Mengsk has the worst early game, but because Mengsk in general has great early game with mastery it's not the worst thing. His marauders are fucking amazing when they gain rank, which they do quickly. 1 or 2 thors provide armor if you want, rocket troopers for a-move anti air, and the rest battlecruisers where at rank 3 one yamato can wipe out an entire wave. He's the strongest late game with the most robust army. But yeah p3 Mengsk is the best overall for his top tier early game that allows him to easily tech up to get battlecruisers himself. I really wish his ghosts/vikings/siege tanks were worth building. His ghosts are pretty trash except on protoss and even then you need to manually aim their abilities.

I have less experience with Swann and don't like him much, so there's wiggle room with him. I put p2 and p0 together because they play pretty much the same. Swann always floats gas. His p1 is better in the early game but sucks late game, where his drill abilities are really good. It's a noob a-move prestige, just like alarak p1 or vorazun p1. P3 is a meme you can have fun with, but again worse drill abilities really sucks. I hate his army too, goliaths get stuck on each other and wraiths are fragile and need constant attention.

His turrets are alright, but yeah swann p2 is worse than karax p1. You could put the latter up a tier if you want, I just don't like playing it since I think karax p3 can play the exact same way but just way better. Karax p0 could be higher for the same reason. Zeratul p2 is in S tier partly because you can boost his cannons massively with no downsides of the prestige.

>>1440826
Protoss was closer in quality to WoL, definitely way better than HotS. Although the epilogue afterward is the worst trash ever shat out by Blizzard.
>>
>>1440769
>even more than Stetman who has at least one funny line every so often.
I like how Stetmann's voice lines all change if you or your partner play as him on his mission. Makes me wish we got more commanders that were former mission contorl.
>>
>>1440826
LotV is a great finale to SC2 if you don't play the epilouge and pretend it ends with Spear of Adun dunking on Amon's clone body and Artanis freeing Selendis.
>>
>>1431250
>didnt they make nova a coal burner?
She had a thing with Tychus before the Dominion wiped her memories. Which I mean if you're gonna pick a black dude, he's a cool one.
>>
>>1371638
Yeah I loved it, but I kinda stopped playing by Legacy of the Void.
>>
>>1441177
Nova and Tosh were close before Tosh went rogue with terrazine and spectre conversions.
>>
>>1441182
Right my brain said tychus instead of Tosh, I don't know why.
>>
I wish more campaign missions had ai allies
I loved the end of Legacy of the Void and all of the epilogue missions because I was always accompanied by friends.
>>
>>1441217
>alarak and artanis dash in and die in less than 30 seconds
>karax takes 30 years to get collosi and carriers out
>zagara and vorazun do kind of okay
meh
>>
>>1441242
It is the participation that I care for the most, it makes the battles feel more immersive.
Also, for the defensive missions I appreciate absolutely any assistance.
I remember Alarak eventually recruiting a Mothership.
>>
>>1441068
In my experience marauders are quite frail despite having a 300 HP shield. You need critical mass so their splash can kill blobs of melee units before they get in range, because once they do it means jack shit and they're back to hitting single targets. And their damage isn't great either. Thors also are quite shit (once they're rank 3 their overwatch mode is kinda okay against big targets though) and usually what kills your troopers is not an army but splash damage which armor doesn't help against. Even one BC is very expensive and takes up most of your gas income for one production round to make a single one.
I've actually found his siege tanks are best for antiground due to the stun having an AoE too, and smart servos. Plus they're not prohibitively gas expensive like BCs. I did not think of the antiair troopers though, usually I never put weapons on them unless they're inside a bunker. Maybe that's why I was having a hard time with him on some missions and thought he was lacking in that area, I didn't get his good antiair.
>Swann always floats gas
Yes, all of his units use far more minerals than gas even if you don't get drones early. Although he has a ton of compositions. Hellbat cyclone, sieged tanks in hercules and goliaths, mass wraith, thor hellbat. No actual good air splash options though, which is why I like P1 on him, it makes up for that weakness.
>>1440826
Honestly I wish more RTS campaigns did WoL's structure. Buying upgrades for the units you use most is fun, and so is unlocking special research that gives you new shit. It's just impactful and simple enough that it doesn't get lost in granular stats or a massive tech tree.
>>
>>1418671
>The biggest failure of SC2 is that blizzard wanted to control too much. Sc1 became big precisely because it was so open.
Funny how this applies to the campaigns too. All three desperately needed more straight build-and-destroy maps in which to flex all your fancy campaign-only stuff.
>>
>>1371638
Campaign was boring as shit. I tried finishing it 2 times but didn't, because it's the same thing every mission. I just look at what the AI does on my first attempt at a mission and then I already know how I'm going to play the second time because their strategies are obvious and repetitive.
>>
I have been playing Mass Recall and I think it is better than the original Starcraft.
>>
Zerglings are fast and have high dps
Marines are great all rounders
But neither of them come close to how cool the Zealot is.
I love those Lu Bu wannabees like you wouldn't believe.
>>
>leveling Stetmann
>plan to go up to P2 for overpowered Gary
>get to lvl 10 in P0
>already bored
>decide to activate prestiges for Mengsk and start working towards P3
>playing P1, not even playing by the rules of the prestige and just building royal guard backed up by troopers
>already having more fun with Mengsk at lvl 2 than anything involving Stetmann
Ngl, I think I just don't like playing as Zerg. This happened with Kerrigan, it happened with Zagara, it happened with Abathur,and it happened with Stetmann. I think I only liked Stukov because it's Zerg in name only and Dehaka because it's more about having fun pressing I Win buttons.
>>
>>1445385
He was forced as a commander because the devs really wanted to use the really cool mecha zerg skins they created. If it wasn't for the constant reddit dialogue and his p2 being so overpowered, he would be a very forgettable commander.

Zerg are overall the most annoying or boring to play of the commanders. The only saving grace is that the co-op devs realized larva injection is aids and pretty much removed it. Abathur and Dehaka are very dependent on their early games, but like you said Dehaka is smoother and more forgiving. Zagara is just a-move besides her p3. Stukov doesn't even qualify as a-move, he's literally easier than that except for his p1.

I like Kerrigan. It's a lot of fun spamming omega worms and being everywhere on the map with hydras and ultras. Too bad most Kerrigan players are noob shitters who just go for p1 without spreading creep, and spam mutas that don't benefit from creep or worms.
>>
Has anyone ever finished the Brutal campaign of Wings of Liberty?
I am struggling with the Great Train Robbery
The train with the raven and 2 siege breakers is a bitch
I am going to do some other missions and come back with more research.
Maybe Siege Tanks will be useful, I will just keep them around the centre left so I can move them North or South depending on the train spawn.
>>
>>1445634
It's a very low econ mission. Don't make any more than the 6 diamondbacks provided to you, they are trash and expensive. Marine marauder medic with their upgrades btfos most things in that campaign. Marines with stim can stutter step to keep up with the train.
>>
>>1445663
Thank you, I finished both The Great Train Robbery and Cutthroat today.
>>
>>1384199
stop talking about your dad
>>
>>1405033
Look it's stuck
I can't shoot
Look it's stuck
I can't shoot
I'm stuck here now
In my boots
I'm stuck here now
Just sucks I'm sloot
>>
Supernova was hard but I was able to snipe some pylons and take over the central base early
It gave me enough time to make an airforce to destroy the temple
In Utter Darkness is the only mission I need to complete before heading to Char
Protoss units are really strong but Hybrids are stronger.
>>
>>1371638
I didn't like the music, story and artstyle, but gameplay-wise it's top-tier.
>>
>>1447927
It is surprisingly easy once you realize you've gotta exploit pathing via cyber cores. Just look at the minimap and move in before things are overrun, you can see the zerg massing outside your base in advance of attacks. storms are great, colossi are your friend too.
>>
New mission pack when Microsoft acquires Blizzard.
>>
I wish you didn't need to get 500 thousand points in Lost Viking to 100% Starcraft.
>>
>>1448318
>getting filtered by a basic bullet hell
It was kind of fun. Look up a guide or two to get some tips.
>>
>>1448318
Lost viking is difficult until you realize that you can spam the attack button to fire faster.

I got to like 95% with holding down the fire button, then looked up what I'm doing wrong and it turns out, spamming fire means you deal like double damage, it makes the 500K points go from hard to get to piss easy.
>>
>>1410909
I remember SC1 players throwing a bitchfit because Blizzard added the ability to remap hotkeys in the remaster. Never saw a more tryhard RTS fanbase.
>>
how much truth is there in that SC2 is getting shut down on the Korean side and that a lot of Gook pros are transitioning to BW? heard that been thrown around a lot, I do not follow SC2 so I am just curious if that shit is real or just people panicking for no reason
>>
>>1448921
I never really understood this myself, you can just rebind your keys anyway, aren't gooks supposed to be good at computers?
>>
My friends, Utter Darkness was a cataclysmic mission but in the end we succeeded
Only 52 kills over 2500 but a win is a win
I had to rebuild those defences at least a dozen times but mental fortitude paid off
I have assaulted Char
Warfield was saved, I have destroyed the Nydus Worms and also mission archived to finish Shatter the Sky
There is only one mission left
Wish me luck
I am going All In
>>
>>1449201
Based my man, remember to spend your money on unit upgrades
>>
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Thank you for your help and support everyone!
I am going to take a break from Starcraft for about a week and then try Heart of the Swarm.
>>
>>1449377
good job mate
>>
>>1371638
Did Metzen have any involvement with Nova Missions Campaign? I don't like it when the original writers are not involved, it feels like it's fake, or an alternative universe story.
>>
Kerrigan seems kind of ridiculously strong in Heart of the Swarm.
>>
>>1449580
No idea, but the main appeal of the Nova expansion is the mission design and playstyles. It's fun to play. The story is decent, I feel they did a pretty good job considering it takes place after the main conflict and focuses on side characters.
>>
>>1371711
Goddamn, imagine if there were people at Blizzard who had enough balls to tell Metzen to eat shit, kicked him off story-writing duties and gave us an actual epic sequel to SC2 where Raynor gets his revenge on Kerrigan.
>>
>>1372801
>the writing was ass after wings

The writing was ass in Wings of Liberty too. Tychus' entire plot point of being a spy for Arcturus makes no fucking sense because he never does anything to stop Raynor, actively partakes in destroying the Dominion's shit and Arcturus never seems to clock on that Tychus is working against him and then you have the ending where apparently Mengsk was monitoring Tychus the entire time and orders him to kill Kerrigan because that was apparently his entire mission...because Mengsk somehow fucking knew that Tychus would be in a position to kill Kerrigan by allying with Raynor...because fuck you, that's why. And that's not even getting into the entire "Jimmy wuvs Sarah now" plot point or the absolutely retarded "ancient evil threatening the universe but the literal Female Space Hitler is the Chosen One prophesied to stop it because Metzen is a hack operating on cliches that he reuses over and over again" shit.
>>
>>1377316
Orcs actually made a tiny bit of sense and have always been a case of "creatures created for violence but aiming for a better life" while the Zerg are literally just a hivemind of murderous monsters whose sole goal is to kill and consume everything in their path to make themselves stronger. Making them misunderstood good guys is as retarded as making the Tyranids or the Necromorphs the good guys especially since the Zerg were a blatant rip-off the Tyranids to begin with.
>>
>>1382042
>Co-Op Commanders was added in LotV.

I fucking hate that shit, you have all these cool subfactions that would be awesome to use in regular skirmish games but noooo, Blizzard locks them away for gay-ass co-op missions which are almost impossible to play nowadays because it takes up to 40 minutes to find someone to play with. Fuck Blizzard and fuck anyone who supports this Jewish crap.
>>
>>1382412
>Lets hate Kerrigan

She deserves every bit of the hate, roastie.

>and project our headcanon personality onto Jim Raynor

The only ones that applies to is Blizzard writers for Starcraft 2 and I'm pretty sure none of them post on this board or 4chan in general.
>>
>>1450136
Your complaint about not being able to use them in pvp is valid, although I'm pretty sure there are mods and custom games that do just that. The problem with them is they are not balanced at all and some have way higher early game power than others or abilities that simply cannot be countered. You would have to use gay rules like "no rush 10 minutes" to even try.

Your comment about 40 minutes to queue is just wrong. Sc2 co-op is the most popular mode in the game and the rts genre in general right now. Queues are nearly always instant on standard difficulties, and even on brutal+ are very quick. You sound like an out of touch blizzard death who is still shitting his diaper over how archon mode was abandoned and forgotten.
>>
>>1450136
Takes like 10 seconds to find a coop match, ur a fag
>>
>>1450125
Not to suck blizzards dick but Tychus makes complete sense. He's a sleeper agent, a spy, Menga didnt know he'd get a chance to kill Kerrigan, but when he did, he got his orders. I dont think this is hard to grasp.

Also the game makes it obvious that Mengsk only keeps Raynor alive because his terrorism is good for political shitflinging. This is made apparent by the fact that they immediately knew where to find Jim and could've easily killed him thrn and there instead of making tychus be buddies with Jim.
>>
I don't play coop because my partner keeps getting angry at me for being too slow
They have tyrants like Dehaka destroying bases at minute 3 and I am stuck with about 4 marines who can't even defend against the first attack wave.
Coop is pay to win.
>>
>>1450132
This. Zergs make no sense without the Overmind, Kerrigan was using the Zerg for her own motives but as soon as the zerg get a leader capable of rational thought, everything becomes senseless.
>>
>>1450249
Get good, lmao
>>
>>1450249
Lower difficulties are filled with shitters who don't care about who good you are or aren't, and the xp isn't that much slower than brutal. You have options.
>raynor
trash and one of the worst commanders of them all
>artanis
easier to play well but much more forgiving as long as you don't buld tempests
>kerrigan
objectively the strongest of the free ones and ranks pretty highly on many mutations, her worms are great, just don't use p1 and build ground units instead of mutas

If you actually buy the fucking game you get access to the next 4. Karax is amazing especially his p2 and p3, like one of the best in the game. Zagara is simple fun and pretty good on brutal when she's leveled up with a great early game. Every other commander is $5 and easily gives you over 10 hours of play time for that money.
>>
>>1450258
>who good you
how good you

>but much more forgiving
and much more forgiving

I refuse to proofread lol.
>>
>>1450258
If you are halfway decent, brutal is EZPZ with everything even at lvl 5, the only thing you need prestiges or maxed out commanders for is Brutal Mutation, some of them are incredibly hard.

Case in point, you can have fun and play brztal and be good for free.


I dont play raynor, artanis is very mutation dependant, a little fragile. Kerrigan is OP, Vorazun is OP, Zagara is extremely OP, Karax is probably the best of the free ones but only on P2+3 as you said. Swann is not very strong but he's got plenty of bhild variety, his wraiths are OP but get cucked on some mutas where early pressure is a problem.
>>
>>1450282
Raynor is one of the few you do not want to do brutal on level 5 with unless you're really good, which most Raynors aren't. I'd push brutal off until level 8 when you get his drop pods. Even then if you get the zerg baneling/viper or protoss reaver/disruptor compositions, your ally really has to carry you.
Zagara is great on standard brutal but gets fucked the hardest by mutators, more than any other commander. Her shit is low hp, constantly rallying across the map, needs melee range, and dies on impact. Her p3 can be used sometimes.
I fucking hate Vorazun, can't stand her. Her timestop is jank and works against you on many maps, and her army composition is very limited since void rays suck.
>>
>>1450368
Oh yeah and zagara is another I would delay brutal until level 7 for her free banelings. She really sucks at low levels and just doesn't have anything to work with.
>>
I hope one day that we get Starcraft 3 or a new campaign
I don't even mind if the story is lacklustre
I just love building armies and attack moving them into enemy bases.
>>
>>1372628
>Nooooo his emotional knee jerk response in the heat of the moment isn't the same as his thoughts literally years later!!!
Do autists really have a hard time understanding this?
>>
Who is your favourite Coop Commander?
I like Artanis because he gets Dragoons and can warp in units anywhere and instantly.
>>
>>1450507
alarak p3 mothership destroyers
mengsk p2/p3 really cool armies
nova p0 very well-rounded
kerrigan p2 worm spam with strong hero
>>
>>1450136
>because it takes up to 40 minutes to find someone to play wit
What? It takes more than a minute to find a match once every couple of weeks
>>
>>1450507
Either Mengsk P2/3, Zeratul P0, Nova P3, or Tychus P0
Yes I like having a small group of overpowered troops, how can you tell?
>>
>the mutation combo is specifically designed to be as annoying as possible even if it's not hard
Every fucking week
>>
>>1441217
ai allies are always more comfy.
my favorite campaign in dune 2000 was ordos because I had an ai ally.
>>
>>1450853
Next week is nice and straightforward. All that's needed is brute force and tanking. Great commanders will be inconvenienced, and bad commanders will be screwed.
>>
>>1450507
artanis is cool but his army is too fragile and I wish reavers werent so shit.

Zagara P1
is THE favorite for me, it's just so much fun to absolutely bulldozer through everything with a flood zo ZERG, it's exactly why I fell in love with the race in SC1 and exactly why I hate how the race plays in SC2. The drawback is that its kinda braindead and gets boring quickly.

Fenix P0
is also a lot of fun, I love having access to a multitude of hero untis with their own cool abilities and it rewards good play unlike something like Karax P2. I also enjoy how super easy the build orders are due to the complete lack of tech requirements for any of his buildings, nothing is as based as having your first building be a pylon, your second an assimilator and your third a fleet beacon.


>>1450851
shit taste desu
>>
How do you people grind out all of the prestiges? I only just started P2 of Mengsk and I'm already burned out, and I plan to get to P3.
>>
>>1452213
Just take it easy man, if you're "grinding" for coop content to "get there" then you're doing it wrong, just have fun
>>
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>>1452213
I really enjoy co-op and genuinely like most the commanders. Not every prestige on every commander is a hit with me, but I can usually find a playstyle that is fun while still viable. Not going to lie I also just like grinding and unlocking new shit, I played runescape back in the day and osrs for years.

Mengsk was a pain for me until I hit p2, where he becomes a lot of fun even though it isn't that great without level 15 and mastery. Another relatively annoying grind was Alarak. His higher tech robo units are kind of trash with slow projectile attacks that are inefficient and a lot of wasted overkill. His stalkers and sentries are unironically his best army, and I had to mass them every game until p3 level 10 when I could finally use his mothership and destroyers (which are amazing and a lot of fun).

I have maxed p3 with everyone except the following
>swann stopped at p0 because he's boring and is just a worse karax
>vorazun stopped at p0 because I hate her playstyle and cloak gimmick, her p3 would be kind of cool if timestop wasn't so glitchy and broken
>abathur stopped at p2 because his p3 is trash and very selfish
>fenix stopped at p1 because he's just kind of mediocre and I'm not a fan of focusing on his champions
>han/horner stopped at p1 since it's their best and only good playstyle
>stetmann stopped at p2 because p3 is a meme
>>
They made Kerrigan in Heart of the Swarm far too powerful
If you get her to level 70 it is almost as if she can solo the final missions even on Hard.
I think most missions I got more value from her than I did from the Swarm.
Significantly easier than Wings of Liberty
Also, Hatcheries are actually really cool and let you spam out any unit you want, from Drones to Ultralisks.
>>
>>1454061
hots is the easiest and most undertuned of the 3 campaigns, lotv is much closer to wol difficulty. hots is in general a rushed, underdeveloped, uninspired piece of shit that nobody cared about even at its release. the final cutscene with kerrigan and raynor was leaked before the game came out, and many people thought it was fake or a joke.
>>
>>1454269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzc8VEWM3uU
just awful
>>
>>1402645
The leaked messages from Activision said that Blizzard is not allowed to make another RTS ever again. Let alone, I have no idea how you would do a SC3. I feel like any super major changes like an entire new faction would cause to much of an uproar.
>>
I still have hope for another Blizzard rts
It has been 13 years since Wings of Liberty
I know Covert Ops came out about 5 years ago but it used the same engine.
Starcraft 3 will have a new race and the UED will return as the big bad.
Raynor, Kerrigan, Artanis and Nova will all return.
>>
I am currently playing the Heart of the Swarm Campaign
I was using the unit tester to compare my Zerg units against Terran and Protoss and I noticed something very strange
Legacy of the Void Hydralisks have insane attack speed and 10 extra health
I wish we had those Hydralisks in the Heart of the Swarm campaign.
>>
I have a good idea for an achievement for Heart of the Swarm
Beat a campaign without using Kerrigan
She trivializes it
I am getting mastery and 10th anniversary achievements and often times I just have her solo the objective with whatever starting forces I have.
Master Archives is a nice touch.
>>
Has anyone tried Nexus Coop?
>>
With respect to Heart of the Swarm
Finish the Crucible and it is all smooth sailing from here on out.
Acquiring Primal Kerrigan and Twin Drones is such a mega power spike.
>>
>>1454284
>>1454284
HOTS sucks major cock narratively but it is a cinematic masterpiece.

The entirety of HOTS and LOTV is like going into the fancy restaurant with beautiful silverware, great service, low prices, then they bring out the food, it looks amazing, tastes amazing, and then as you swallow, every bite turns to shit.

It's the most polished, mechanically impressive, system-wise incredible game with insane cinematics and great environments, and then you look at the narrative and the mission design and the 1v1 meta and want to gnaw your own eyes out.



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