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The only playable Hearts of Iron game
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>>1061075
Hilariously based and kinda true.
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>>1061075
HoI 3 Is infinitely better
>Actual OOB's
>More provinces
>AI can control army's/groups
>better economy
>Better ui and map
>Naval battles more realistic
I can go on. Don't get me wrong Darkest hour is kino and better than hearts of shit 4 but HoI 3 with the downfall mod is just perfect mix of realism and gameplay unlike black ice where its non stop clicking through 1000 event pop ups and dont even get me started on the god awful music.
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>>1061100
hoi3 has too much autistic micromanagement, there's a reason it kind of gets "skimmed over" between 2 and 4
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>>1061103
>>>1061103
>hoi3 has too much autistic micromanagement, there's a reason it kind of gets "skimmed over" between 2 and 4
Smooth-brain take.
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>>1061075
I wish there was some middle ground between DH and HPP for 3. There is bunch of mechanics I love in DH (DH specifically, rather than just 2) and there is bunch of shit I like in HPP (HPP specifically, not just vanilla 3).
If only they could have sex and have a beautiful child...
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>>1061100
>Downfall
What does it do, when compared with HPP and BIce?

>>1061103
But that's like 90% of what makes 3 fun.
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>>1061103
The only people who skip 3, especially in favour of 4, are complete brainlets. And I'm not even being snide here. There is some argument to be had on virtues of DH vs. 3, but it boils down to preferable playstyles and game mechanics, rather than level of autism needed.
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>>1061103
>hoi3 has too much autistic micromanagement
And that's why I love it. I love to assign 'V' and 'VII Corpo d'Armata' to the '8a Armata' which will be sent to Russia while I deploy 'XIV Corpo d'Armata' to North Africa as reinforcements. It makes the game so much more engaging than just: 'send 12 unnamed divisions to unnamed army line in Russia',
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>>1061599
You have been able to do that since HOI2, if not HOI1..
>>
I’m sure all these old Hois are better than Hoi4, but I discovered the series with hoi4, and I can’t be arsed playing a 2003 game just because it’s more autistic
Am I actually missing out?
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>>1061620
>I can’t be arsed playing a 2003 game
No, you aren't missing anything. Neither are we with your lack of presence
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>>1061075
Darkest hour runs like cancer on my modernish computer. Lags and stutters non stop, menus and buttons register multiple seconds after I clicked them, just horrid lag and delay for everything in darkest hour. You need a really shitty computer with an ancient single core processor to get DH to work right. Weirdest thing is I can run hoi1 hoi2 base just fine, but not DH.

I have 1k+ hours in hoi3 though, the actual best hoi game.
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>>1061628
Yeah bro these graphics aint be bussin fr fr
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>>1061192
I'm still mad HPP doesn't start in '33, like DH. Imagine the absolute kino of having 4th and 5th encirclement campaigns using HoI3 engine. Or maybe even being allowed to keep the 4th going, rather than being barred from winning by event, even if you overrun the Jiangxi Soviet completely.
And it would be even better if you were given a 1924 start. Man can only dream about such excellent things.
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>>1061620
The only really obnoxious thing about it is convoy management for overseas supply, it can be utterly braindead if left automated.
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>>1061605
Alright cool, but HOI3 was my first HOI game I played so I only have that as reference. I was just implying that I love the 'autistic micromanagement' of 3 compared to 4.
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>>1061075
I’ve tried 3 and 4, 3 was more micromanagement than I’m interested in and 4 seemed like it was built for retards with the hilarious “focus tree” shit where you hit a button and wait 70 days to make America communist
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>>1061599
Hoi4 Divisions don't feel special or valuable. They're just easily replaced blobs. 4 suffers from having every nation having 3 million divisions. 3 really made very unit feel unique with the commanders and COC system as well as being harder to replace,
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>>1061899
>Paradrop in 3 goes sideways
>FUCK, I'm done, I will probably won't get another for next year
>Paradrop in 4 goes sideways
>Who cares, that was just a single battalion, existing solely to take over empty provinces without fight
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>>1061741
As anyone gives a flying fuck about your worthless opinion.
Causal tardfucks like you with the attention spans of goldfish and the intelligence of insects should be banned from playing any game more complicated than Snakes and Ladders.
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>>1061664
>Warlord China anon is back
Won't say I've missed you, but good to see you alive
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>>1061635
Works on my machine
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True, also ironically only one not made by Parashit
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>>1064113
>le esl
Kill yourself, mutt.
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>>1064105
Okay paki, not exactly something to be proud of still running windows XP.

One of these days I’ll find a garage sale ancient pc to use for darkest hour. Until then I’ll just play base hoi2, hoi3, and 4
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>>1064325
Based retard
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>>1064334
I’m sorry I don’t have a single core pentium 1200mhz processor from 2003 in my rig.

I’m literally just not as poor as you and have better hardware, cope about this however you need to.

But like I said, I reckon I can get some shitty windows 2000/xp pc with super old and slow hardware for like 20$ at some yard sale. I’ll be able to enjoy darkest hour the same way you do soon.
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>>1064325
>>1064364
Oh, hey! It is the retard who bragged about having a incredibly expensive PC, and how he would need to play DH on his grandmother's shitbox, cuz DH bad. Do you feel like posting your PC stats this time around?
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>>1064325
>>1064364
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>>1064113
I am a native English speaker and have racked up 1,129 hours of playing DH over the past 6 years.
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>>1064579
>I5

Yeah, my processor is much higher end than that pos lmfao. I’m glad your shitbox processor can work for older games. Atleast I kinda know now how much(or little) money I really need to spend to get DH running right.

I reckon I can use an I5 and build a system similar to yours for less than the msrp of my processor! Might be the way to go, never have much luck at yard sales, it’s mostly old laptops that are fried.

Wish me luck bro! As you already know, I’m enjoying hoi2 base as we speak!! Runs great on my system, I’ve been racking up hours. Darkest hour is clearly better than base, but it just sits, damm eurojank, sometimes I wish paradox released darkest hour, it would run better.

Hoi 1 runs perfect with no compatibility mode. Played it off the disk and downloaded, no issues. Something fucky with that darkest hour, game made by a few friends, only likes to run on shitty hardware that released around the time of the mod. Maybe paradox themselves added a patch to base hoi2, explains why it runs perfect. but I’ve ran hoi1 offline off the disk with zero patches, says it’s only for old windows and hoi1s processor specs are slightly worse than darkest hour, but it works fine for some strange reason. Darkest hour is special.
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>>1064550
>Do you feel like posting your PC stats this time around?
No, You don’t understand how little desire I have to take time out of my day to screenshot a page for you. I don’t have time to entertain your third world ass.

I run total war warhammer 3 on ultra 60fps though as a benchmark for you to check yours
>>
HoI4 has a supply system now apparently. Is the system shit or is it better than how it was represented in HoI3? Basically is hoi4 ok now or is it still shit? I find the focus tree system gay af and the devs pushing for automated combat really bad but maybe the new mechanics make up for that?
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>>1064708
Lol, how is that a benchmark for anything other than your shit taste?
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>>1061635
Worked fine on every computer I've ever run it on. Perhaps you're just dumb?
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>>1064706
Post your specs bro
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>>1064738
>Is the system shit
Very
>or is it still shit
How is it even a question?

The new supply system is pants on head retarded. The gist of it
>AII doesn't understand the system at all
>AI doesn't expand supply infrastructure at al, unless via focuses
>AI doesn't value supplies at all, nor supply routes or hubs
>Purpose-build rail with purpose-build trains (which you have to research!) carries supplies
>Infrastructure of the state is just a modifier to how efficient it is
>Supplies can only be distributed from purpose-build supply hubs (no supply depos), which are near impossible to build once the war starts
>Supplies themselves are an abstract resource, which is always produced automatically in sufficient quantity and can't run out of, but the transport capacity is the choke-point for it
>Supply requirements of units are all over the place, which renders tanks almost impossible to use (that without bringing the sucject of tank designer being introduced)
So you have AI that can't use suppies at fucking all, along with all its previous faults, making it 10x weaker than it was prior. As for MP: a total and complete stalemate, with dead-locked fronts, because both sides destroy enemy's supply system and units can't fight for shit.

tl;dr what else did you expect?
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>>1064706
>he thinks the power of the processor is determined by the marketing name
no wonder this retard can’t run DH
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>>1065395
>number is twice as big
>GPU is approx twice as fast

checks out for me
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>>1065226
Don't forget it costs 20k to build a supply hub which takes MONTHS! God forbid there isnt a pre placed supply hub near the front. Tanks run out of steam super quick because they outrun supply hubs within 3-4 tiles depending on where and arbitrary "hub" is placed.

Captials also have near unlimited supply so an enemy can easily keep 3-4x the units there while your armies starve because its all abstract and random.

The way railways work is dumb too. As long as there is a rail connection of a certain level to the capital your hub gets that level of supply. One section of railway could supply 10+ hubs if you wanted it to (and it commonly does).

Theres also an option to supply by truck, but all it does is slightly increase the range of supply hubs and the trucks don't even use fuel. The only cost is that occasionally one "breaks down" and needs to be replaced. You can max out truck supply in the east and still only use about 800-1.2k trucks which boils down to about the cost of about 5-6 infantry divisions.

I'm sure there's more but its so bad its not even that much fun to shit on it.
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HOI2 Iron Cross
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>>1065226
>filtered by the supply
the state of brainlets today
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>>1065533
The worst part is that the rail system by itself isn't bad idea and like grand majority of mechanics that make IV, it at least on paper appears to be a great idea.
But hey, on paper, the air combat system is also fantastic, so go fucking figure.

>>1065616
>If you consider the shit-tier suppy system of IV to be poorly implemented, it means you got filtered
Nigger, I helped organise BIce supply autism.
HoI4 simply has bad and ill-concieved supply system. It COULD work, but that would require two things that PDX will never do:
- giving a singe flying fuck
- not relegating it to be a DLC bubble floating in perfect vaccum
Also, keep in mind that the fact you have two brain cells to rub together and just advance your offensives along the supply rail system and capture local hubs doesn't mean AI even knows what those things are. In 3, AI simply handled supplies and when it could spare IC, it was expanding at least main trunks of infrastructure. In 4, it doesn't even register supply as a deciding factor.
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>>1061100
tried it and HPP is better.
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>>1064777
Lmfao your Pakistani toaster can’t run it hahahahahahah

aw bro I’m sorry but that’s cool you have vista tier specs and can run DH
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>>1064798
DH Worked fine on my windows vista laptop from like 06.

I haven’t been able to get it to work on my first windows 7 64bit rig(exponentially overbuilt for DH), not even my current modern build that allows me to run every new title at 60fps ultra.

You running a 32 bit system by chance? Man I wish I could put something together as weak and slow as what you guys got, it would probably run DH great, but I just can’t seem to find any hardware for sale slow enough to match DH specs. Again, HOI2 runs perfect on my computer, it’s just darkest hour is low budget eurojank that only likes to run on ancient hardware around the era the game came out. Studders on every high end processor.
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>>1068072
Not sure if bait, retarded, or both
The level of technological incompetence people display, despite being born after internet was already a thing never cease to confuse and scare me
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>>1068085
Yeah it’s weird, hoi1, ck1, hoi2, ect all run fine.

Not even compatibility mode can teach darkest hours retarted coding to use modern hardware.

Again, I’m glad you have like a pentium 4, but understand that shit is getting hard to find in good condition for people like me with expensive systems that can’t run old games without weak slow hardware like you are using
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>>1061075
>still no 1.06
a-any time now, right bros?
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>>1068068
I don't know or care if I can run WH3, I don't like Total war post Fall of the Samurai, nor do I think that it was really all that of a good series before Fall of the Samurai.
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>>1068124
That’s fine but you can google what the recommended specs are for that game and see what kind of computer he has rather than crying about it for 6 threads
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>>1068134
That doesn't tell me anything, as he does not have 1:1 the specs on the recommended list.
And this is the second thread I have seen him in, so stop being a bitch, and let us have our fun making fun of this retard.
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>>1068145
Idk bro you literally looked up his specs than chose to ignore them after you saw what it takes to run warhammer 3 total war on ultra lmfao pathetic

just enjoy your classic windows games working perfect on your poverty box
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>>1068098
My 10900kf runs darkest hour just fine do you have some weird amd processor or intel 12th gen that's supposed to give issues with older sfuff
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>>1068176
>Idk bro you literally looked up his specs than chose to ignore them after you saw what it takes to run warhammer 3 total war on ultra lmfao pathetic
I didn't, but ok lol.
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easily the gayest conversation on this board
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>>1068220
then hop off your boyfriend's lap and try following the conversation without his black dick up your ass.
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>>1061075
>play dh for 10 years
>still dont know how to build a navy that doesnt instantly disintegrate on contact with the enemy
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>>1068220
I strive to provide discussion of the highest quality.
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>>1068293
One thing. Air Carriers. I found them to be absolute beasts that slaughter literally everything as long as you keep CAG up to date and have a few other ships with them to take the damage.
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>>1061100
I opened HOI3 for the first time in like 6 years today and got bored after like an hour. DH is the best.
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>>1068293
The same as in all HoI games
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>>1068345
You don't really need the up-to-date CAG, because the reasons why carriers are such a beast is their range.
For all purposes, an aircraft carrier outfitted with a CAG operates like a battleship that has a gun with range of 200-700 km (as opposed to 25-40) and deals damage with air attack, rather than ship attack. Even if your CAG is completely outdated, it's going to out-range whatever guns the other navy will have, thus at the very least being dead-locked in a battle forever, and if the air attack is at least 1 point higher than air defense of the ships in the enemy fleet, then it will grind them down.
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>>1061100
>Downfall
Thanks, HPP is just plain better in terms of "vanilla+". Downfall is that awkward place where it's too far away from vanilla, but not really adding anything new or big, so it plays like a prototype for an overhaul mod.
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>>1068293
Nah HOI3 has the confusing naval combat.

In DH you just build CVs with screens and wins. Or in the WW1 scenario: a shit ton of DDs
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>>1069311
Except the only difference in naval combat between 2/DH and 3 is how the stacking modifier is counted for the fleet and that CAG is now an actual airwing (so it can bombard land targets), rather than an attached "brigade". Other than that, the mechanics are exactly the same and unlike DH, there is no real way of defending against CVs, since you can't skyrocket your air defense.
>>
I only play it with KR
>play Qing
>conquer all of China
>wait for either Mitteleuropa or the syndicalists to conquer all of Europe
>convert my army to 100% helicopters
>start a giant war against all of Europe, stalling at the Urals until the enemy runs out of MP
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>>1069435
>I only play it with KR
Then no matter what you have to say is automatically irrelevant
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>>1069436
I learned the game (was my first wargame) in vanilla, does that count? I just hate the MP system, I prefer HoI2 style regenerating MP
>>
Do you need KH or any other mod for the first DH playthrough?
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>>1069446
No, because DH is a mod by itself - a massive overhaul on the game and few systems, along with adding extra elements. Ironically, KH dumbs the shit out of the game and railroads you hard into le visual novelle, but gameplay itself is dog-shit and inferior to even vanilla HoI2.
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>>1069810
>but gameplay itself is dog-shit and inferior to even vanilla HoI2.
anon the gameplay is mechanically identical, how can it be 'dumbed down'
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>>1069818
>Less technologies, thus less unit gradient
>Bunch of modifiers bumped up to make them far more powerful
>IC coming out of vaccum, like ifucking HoI4
>Event-modifiers that further casualise everything
>OP and super-tailored research teams, so you always have all techs with all related fields for majors, minors and even some regionals
Something like that
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>>1061432
That's a lot of brainlets, considering how before HOI4 came out everyone who wanted their WWII fix played Darkest Hour instead of HOI3.
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>>1069855
>Source: trust me, bro
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>>1061635
I've never had these issues and the last time I tried playing DH I was on my Ryzen 5600x build
>>
HoI3 is too tedious for me or I'm too autistic for it, just can't have long term fun with it.
As an example, you can't tell the game the naming convention for units and how they are assigned. So it's infantry division one of corps two and not division 326 and that's ignoring my brigade naming autism.
Every time I spend the entire game just organizing.

>>1061432
>boils down to preferable playstyles and game mechanics
Yeah feels that way for me too. DH has a lot less warfare and more state building going for it.

>>1065226
>Supplies themselves are an abstract resource, which is always produced automatically in sufficient quantity and can't run out of, but the transport capacity is the choke-point for it
REEEEEE
Why do they always do these things? I hate nu-paradox devs.
>>
>>1069311
>HOI3 has the confusing naval combat.
You ever read the hoi3 wiki page that explains it?

There is multiple viable naval strategies and builds, you aren’t stuck with one meta like in hoi4, you can just as easily win with light cruisers and battlecruisers as you can destroyers and battleships. I conqured the UK here without a single carrier. Read the stats on naval units. Gonna fight CAGs? Built high AA navies with ships that can fire long distance (heavy cruisers, battleship, ect, every ship has its own firing range)
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>>1069913
Every time I play hoi3 I fall more and more In love with the naval aspect.

If you build a competent navy, you can encircle wherever the hell you want. If you have a competent navy, you can get away with ZERO garrison troops at your ports(maybe leave a brigade for rebels), ships set on intercept will delete enemy divisions attempting to land.

I get more satisfaction sinking enemy warships than I do deleting divisions now a days. I know these fleets take years and years to build in hoi3, you lose half you fleet during a “naval” play through your save is 100% bricked because it’s gonna take 6 years to rebuild that navy. Ships are super valuable and hard to replace, seeing multiple battleships sunk by inferior cruisers always gets me hard too.

I also lol @ the friendly fire kills in hoi3 naval combat. It’s kinda how they balanced doomstacks, send a naval doom stack that’s got more than 15 ships, they’re gonna start hitting each other accidentally during night time, and the poor screen penalty means you will take much more damage doomstacking naval.

Still don’t get air combat though. I literally have 800 hours in hoi3 but can’t figure everything out.
>>
>>1069918
Air combat boils down to 4 things, really:
>CAS to mutilate frontline troops and THEN hit retreating unit, micro'ed to Hell and back
>NAV destroying ships for pocket change, don't even need to be advanced models if you don't need some super-long flight
>Intercepting only when your heartland is within the reach of enemy planes (rarely) and you can't simply conquer pronto said enemy
>CAG if you are a carrier guy (I'm not)
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>>1071005
This guy gets it.
The only plane you need in 2/DH is CAS. Everything else is of secondary importance, and both TAC and STR are waste of resources and research. So are all the gimmick planes, like rocket interceptors. This also means you don't have to research escort bombers, since you aren't using TAC nor STR. The only HoI where CAS weren't the only plane needed was the original, but it had fucked air combat and even more useless planes, so go fucking figure, so you were basically better off pretending there is no air combat whatsoever than sink IC to research and build useless planes.
Hell, you are better off researching (and doing so ahead of time) floatplanes in DH than even considering STRs - even as the UK
>>
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People who think that medium and heavy bombers are useless have never used the logistical bombing mission. Once you have air superiority you can basically buttfuck and entire frontage without as much as taking damage.

Soviet heavy armour is unbeatable? Just fuck up their supplies and fuel. Now they can't attack.

Medium bombers (in mods) are also far more effective against infantry and mandatory in certain areas because the air bases are so far apart and so rare that CAS, with its limited range, can't really do much.

Heavy bombers are also only required in low numbers. If you hit all of Germanys rare provinces continuously then they will bleed. The same applies for their rich metal and coal mines. Eventually they all run dry. You have to sustain that though and that's the hard part.

Naval bombers are also great for convoy raiding. They can only be hurt by carriers so that's a massive amount of military resources that England has to dedicate to the Atlantic if Germany conquers Spain and is allowed to freely bomb any ship that passes by.

By building a few radar stations and having good intel one can use them to basically cripple the UK without having to build even a single submarine.

The AI that creates convoy routes is somewhat intelligent though. Eventually it will reroute all the convoys so they don't go through there.
That just means that the fleets have to operate in the middle of the Atlantic, far away from their ports of origin and safety.
A clever player can use this to hunt down the British fleets.
>>
>DH

>send the entire IJA paratrooper force over Gibraltar
>4 divisions
>only 1 is left standing when the battle is over.
>>
>>1072387
You are aware that logistical bombing can be done by a CAS... right?
Hence why any bomber bigger than a CAS is completely useless, at least for land operations (NAVs are worth every penny when it comes to sinking ships).

Also, if you plan to invest resources into crippling the UK, you might as well just invade it. Same price, far, far, FAR more enjoyable experience (and I'm talking proper invasion, not some bullshit metagame loophole) than just regional bombardments with bunch of STR
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>>1069918
in hoi3 you can ignore air combat with the sole exception of CAGs. Its never worth the investment. If you think you need to build air units then you are just doing it all wrong. Dumbfucks will tell you otherwise, but that's because they are dumbfucks. The sort of dumbfucks who keep missing the toilet bowl.
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>>1072519
To play devil's advocate, he did brought mods. Majority of mods make various planes significantly cheaper to build, without decreasing their capacity for pummeling enemies, so instead of having 5-6 "planes", you have 5-6 air wings, 3-4 "planes" each.
But yeah, in vanilla 3 air combat is fucking useless, unless you are really annoyed with AI bombing your factories.
>>
>>1072387
Thanks mate, but I'd rather build submarines than planes for sinking convoys. Cheaper. Way fucking cheaper. And with far greater range.
>>
>>1072510
>You are aware that logistical bombing can be done by a CAS... right?
>Hence why any bomber bigger than a CAS is completely useless

CAS have zero logistical strike capability…. Atleast now I know you’ve never played the game.

Cas have 0 strategic attack. As in, you can assign them on a logistical bombing run, they just won’t do anything. Here’s cas stats pic related it goes by year. Never has cas ever has logistical or strategic bombing capabilities in any non modded HOI3 build. If you’re a black ice player I get the confusion, pretty sure bice gives CAS the ability to do everything.

Medium bombers start with 4 strategic attack in 1916, and top out at 7 strategic attack in 1948.

Cas start with 0 and end the game with 0 assuming you have all cas technologies.

Thanks for playing, but there’s much to learn about hoi3, kiddo. Your hoi4 stats don’t carry over…
>>
>>1072585
>sub sea attack(as in an on an enemy surface ship): 2.0 in 1942

>naval bomber sea attack in 1942:8.5, next year tech takes it to 10.25.

So you basically have subs, really good at sinking convoys, but bad at everything else.

and you have naval bombers, really good at sinking convoys, but good at everything else.

statwhoreing aside, we can all play How we like. I prefer building battleship navies even though carriers are better In every way. Totally get how subs are more satisfying, but navs are better considering the ic and all it’s stats.

Lol also NAVS get sub attack with depth charges, get fucked you can’t touch naval bombers but they can Rape you.
>>
>>1072596
What a weird slide to do
>Anon says NAVs are good for sinking convoys
>Point out subs are way cheaper and even better for that
>Anon starts talking about other capabilities of NAVs
Look, I get it, you like bombing things, but here is a thing: that was a really fucking retarded slide.
>>
>>1072596
>statwhoreing aside, we can all play How we like
Ironic, given you are shitting on everyone for not playing how you like.
And subs are way, way better at sinking convoys, for they allow something that NAV can't do: area coverage. Good fucking luck patrolling middle of Atlantic or Pacific with a NAV
>>
>>1072615
>And subs are way, way better at sinking convoys

Subs travel between 10-19 Mph.

Naval bombers travel between 200-400 mph in the game.

Which one of those units do you REALLY think covers a larger area when convoy raiding?

The naval bomber covers exponentially more naval regions than a sub can in a week.

I’ll give this to you. Submarines are much much more useful if you don’t have naval supremacy and the enemy has tons of cags to counter your Naval bombers at sea.

Japan/UK with its massive fleet should absolutely every time build naval bombers for convoy raiding over subs. They can scramble carrier air groups to support naval bombers if they ever got caught. Germany, with its non existent fleet, is much better off going for subs than naval bombers.
>>
>>1072596
"statwhoreing"
I like it. I cant wait to use it.
"YOU YOU YOU.....YOU DIRTY LITTLE STATWHORE YOU!"
Yes.
*licks lips*
I have found a fine accessory to accusations of IC whoring. Shame I found it ten years too late.
>>
>>1072634
Aktuallshally you are both doing it wrong.

Superior players do not bother building either subs or navs. Superior players just invade whatever country annoys them.
Want to destroy the enemy's convoys? Invade and conquer them. That puts an end to them.
Someone's strategic bombers hammering your factories? Invade and conquer them. No country = no airforce = no bombing
Someone's subs/CVs/BB etc sinking your ships? Invade and conquer them. Sort of hard to have a navy when their country no longer exists.
There is not one single instance where invading and conquering is not a viable and better long term strategy. To that end a superior player just focuses on invading and conquering everyone. Because in the end everyone is a cunt who deserve it.
Even if they go GiE they are so fucked as to be utterly insignificant.
Then following record breaking world conquests you realize that the AI is incapable of putting up any sort of challenge. Even on very hard difficulty. You can pull off the most improbable gamey shit. Like invading Japan with Nationalist China in 1938. Using one transport, guarded by one LC, to ferry over one division at a time while the IJN continues sailing around off Guam.

So then you start introducing all sorts of house rules to restore some semblance of plausibility, which you set before the start of the game. Nope you can do gamey shit. Cos you said so yourself. Unfortunately this means you have now railroaded yourself back into IC and stat whoring. At this point you embrace the whore within you. Yes. You have become what you most hated. A FILTHY DIRTY LITTLE STAT WHORE.
FILTHY
DIRTY
DISGUSTING
STAT WHORE!!!!
My God...
Your family disowns you. Your dog runs off to the animal shelter. Homeless people give you dirty looks.
Despondent, you now wander alone, slumming in Runescape, afraid to show your face in any serious strategy game. Even starcraft players dont want to know you.
This is the fate of all superior hoi3 players.
It's tragic.
>>
>>1072666
one of the most beautiful posts I have ever read
>>
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>>1072510
Logistical bombing uses the strategic attack stat. CAS absolutely suck at it.
They also often don't have the range to perform the attack at the points where the supply lines are short.

Are you playing vanilla? It might be different for it but in mods like BICE there are definitively lots of uses for non CAS.

>Also, if you plan to invest resources into crippling the UK, you might as well just invade it. Same price, far, far, FAR more enjoyable experience (and I'm talking proper invasion, not some bullshit metagame loophole) than just regional bombardments with bunch of STR

I'm somewhat biased because I engage them with a multiplayer mindset where the UK is usually well defended enough to repell attacks that don't have naval supremacy.


>>1072519
Air units allow you to decimate your opponents manpower for an IC cost. That is their main advantage. You are basically trading your IC for your limited manpower.
If you have problems at a certain part of the front where you and your enemy are evenly matched then air power can also offer you the necessary edge to win.

>>1072585
Submarines definitely serve their purpose. They are very prone to destroyers, frigates etc.
Naval bombers only enemy are land bases interceptors that often don't have the range, especially in the Atlantic, and CAG.


>>1072588
CAS, in BICE, have very limited strategic attack. Just barely enough to destroy a few supply crates but not much else. You are basically correct about the rest though.

>>1072596
Most planes also have submarine attack. Ingame you can only see that stat when trying to license the plane.

In BICE CAG have literally negative sub attack, CAS have very low sub attack and NAVs have about as much as they have sea attack.

NAVs truly are the land based work horse of the naval combat.
>>
>>1072634
>Here is me comparing stats that don't matter for convoy hunting, just to pretend I know better
Weird slide is getting weirder
>>
>>1072666
While I agree on principle, here is an important note:
I don't HAVE to invade Japan as Nationalist China, and that's even more beautiful. I can force them to surrender just by taking over Korea. Meaning I don't even need that single transporter and single LC or any other bullshit. Even better, Japan will continue to do whatever the fuck it wants to do, while I can focus on removing communists once more.

t. warlord anon
>>
>>1072910
>BICE nigger brings his overhaul wisdoms
Modders and mod players get the rope.
>>
>>1072910
Which Darkest Hour (you know, the game OP and everyone else is talking about) mod is this?
>>
>>1072955
I dont know what game you are playing where you can force surrender on Japan by just romping their Korean vps. But I do know one thing. You are a dirty little STAT WHORE! Yes, you are. You love being a STAT WHORE! Pouring over spread sheets and comparing attack values, supply consumption, manpower requirements. Yeah. I bet you look up stuff like officer and fuel requirements, drooling over things like range, soft attack and speed. Dont deny it! I bet you get all dressed up in a pair of filthy ripped old jeans and one of those loose fitting but warm and comfortable sweat shirts and sit down at the computer and STUDY STATS! AND THEN WORK OUT OUT THINGS LIKE BEST ECONOMIC USE OF INDUSTRIAL CAPACITY! YES YOU DO! YOU DO! YOU STAT WHORING LITTLE STAT WHORE YOU! Ohhhhh.... Yes.... God.
>>
>>1073038
>I dont know what game you are playing where you can force surrender on Japan by just romping their Korean vps
DH. You know, the game this thread is about.
>>
>>1073065
Yeah? Well I was replying to a hoi3 comparison. It was a while ago, somewhere in this thread. Probably in this thread. Or it might have been another thread. On another board. In an alternative Universe. Or maybe not at all. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER! Besides we all know that hoi3 is vastly superior to DH. We hoi3 players just tolerate your kind. THAT'S RIGHT! While you are busy being a dirty little STAT WHORE, running around all over town in your skimpy little sweat shirt, dropping tank destroyer hard attack values like the tramp you are, us hoi3ers have been busy doing shit liek waging war as Australia against both the Axis and the Allies! AND GETTING OUR SHIT KICKED IN! What do you say to that, huh?? Huh??? Betcha dont get those sorts of antipodean thrills in your cute little DH games. No, I bet you dont. Tramp.
>>
>>1072950
>”speed means nothing for convoy hunting”
Hey retard, a units speed directly correlates with how many convoys they can catch in a day.

Lol you’re stupid and never played the game, stop replying to me and go back to your hoi4 you’re bad and don’t know what your talking about it’s hilarious actually
>>
>>1072992
I was replying to someone who was replying to someone who posted a hoi3 screenshot you massive brainless faggot
>>
>>1073065
>DH. You know, the game this thread is about.
Idk senpai, half the posts here are 100% about hoi3, I can understand your confusion though
>>
>>1073131
So you are talking about the wrong game, got it
As expected of HoI3babbies
>>
>>1073140
Not my fault no one plays DH and people started talking about the actual good classic hoi.

Maybe post darkest hour screenshots?? All I see in this thread are hoi3 screenshots… you darkest hour fags do actually play right?
>>
>>1073142
>Not my fault no one plays DH
Then why come into a thread about it? Go talk about your casualized """wargame""" in any of the 50 threads normalfags make about it constantly
>>
>>1073150
Lmfao darkest hour is a fisher price kids toy of a wargame next to hoi3 kys sweaty retard.
>>
>>1073140
>>1073142
>>1073150
>>1073173
>GoY$ niggers trying to one-up another who's bigger poser
>>
>>1072950
>don't matter for convoy hunting

>Submarine kills one convoy.
>Destroyers on patrol reach them in a day
>Submarine dies
>???
>Profit

vs

>NAV bombs a convoy
>NAV bombs a convoy again
>NAV continues to bomb convoy
>Destroyers can't do shit

With as basic of an understanding as yours I recommend HoI 4
>>
Gentlemen please. Stop this unseemly squabbling.We all know that DH and HOI3 are both vastly superior games to hoi4. That should make DH and HOI3 players BROTHERS IN ARMS!
There is no need to be calling each other "retards" or 'babies". That is uncalled for. Calling each other FILTHY LITTLE STAT WHORES is fine though, since that acknowledges dedication to the finer aspect of the games.
Secondly, this is a DH thread and we should respect the right of OP and other DH posters to talk about DH. At least they aren't playing the childish cluster fuck that is hoi4, right? And there is a HOI3 thread up at the moment. Where we can go and discuss 3x inf 1x art builds and call each other noobs and retards.

DH and HOI3 BROTHERS! We should all be having backyard BBQs and inviting each other over to share beers and fuck each other's ugly sisters. We should be holding sweaty football matches and tearing off each other's shirts and embracing in brotherly hugs then saying "no homo" and laughing while remaining deeply suspicious becasue the other guy held the hug for just a bit too long! We should be crashing on each other's couches and leaving the kitchen sink jammed with our dirty plates, cigarette butts, and used condoms when we leave the house!
WE ARE BROTHERS IN ARMS!
>>
Darkest hour is bestest hour
>>
>>1073244
>Convoy route is outside of air reach
Oh wow, imagine if something so basic could fuck your master plan.
>>
>>1073244
>submarine, 1940
>range: 15000
>destroyer, 1941
>range: 8000
>naval bomber, 1941
>range: 1500
plus of course
>submarine, 1940
>convoy attack 7, another 9 from torpedo, totaling 16
>naval bomber, 1941
>sea attack 6, no convoy attack, so effective convoy attack is 3
and most importantly
>submarine, 1940
>IC of 1.2, 215 days of construction
>naval bomber, 1941
>IC of 14.4, 144 days to finish, escort fighters not included (they would cut the range to mere 600, anyway)
Thus for a price of a two (2) NAVs (in any gearing configuration) I can build 11 submarines and reach places the plane can't even dream about, while being over 5 times more efficient at hunting down convoys
NAVs are great, but they are a terrible, terrible waste of resources when it comes to hunting down convoys. They can be, however, used to great effect to shred the surface fleet and thus allow your submarines thrive even without micro needed to keep them alive.

You were saying something about your experience only coming from HoI 4, weren't you?
>>
>>1075755
Coorection, since I've looked up wrong number:
Sea attack would be 11 for the NAV, which still gives us effective convoy attack of 6. Still pretty bad.
>>
Too bad the ai cannot properly understand it should defend certain places more than others. It will defend pointless provinces to the death while you overrun their capital. Still put hundreds of hours in.
>>
>>1061620
4 was also the first one I played, but I really dislike how simplistic and dumbed down it is. shame that the earlier games have none of the QoL stuff, because I really like hoi 3
>>
>>1075786
I find it way more comfy and fun to just have a big frontline that you slowly push, breakthroughs just means the AI suicides
>>
>>1075789
It happens with ai vs ai too.
>>
>>1075755
>post a list of stats
>includes IC days
>then makes an analysis
Ohhhhh yesss.... ohhhh...ohhhhhh..... God....yes....ohhh...,you....you.. filthy little STAT WHORE you.
>>
>>1075538
>Convoy route is outside of submarine reach
:o
>>
>>1078182
You would have to be based in Bergen and trying to hunt below equator for that to be true.
Meanwhile, 80% of places a NAV can get, a fighter can reach it there, so you've just recreated the sub vs destroyers scenario, only at ten times the price tag.
>>
>>1075755
>player builds a fuck load of submarines
>AI majors just start supplying from air with transport planes

Good job retard lmfao
>muh submaweens
>>
>>1078188
Destroyers can be based wherever the Allies want. Just position them closer and they are done.

NAVs could kill the destroyers by themself. In fact if you don't have NAVs flying to kill any enemy ships that come to stop you then you aren't doing it right.
>>
>>1078206
>By yes, I don't even know how this game plays, how could you tell
You forgot to post a gayman image.

>>1078211
It's like you are ignorant for a purpose or still didn't figure Atlantic Gap
>>
>>1078206
>>1078211
Also, shit like this make me miss the old forum. "Just pretending" to be stupid was a great way to get banned.
>>
>>1078264
>yes, I don't even know how this game plays, how could you tell
We all already know you have no idea how the game works bro, you build submarines lmfao.

Also you don’t even know about the air supply mechanic of hoi3 lmfao, BACK to 4 kiddo.

You are totally fine as any major nation just keeping your starting subs for convoy raiding. Building ships that can also damage other surface ships while convoy raiding at much higher speed will always be better.
>>
>>1061100
What about Blacker Ice?
>>
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>>1078292
>AI is totally using air supply!
>And it can reach so far away, it can replace convoys!
>Not to mention the amount of materiel moved!
And the best part is you've missed the memo the discussion is about DH, bringing HoI3 out of the blue.
>>
>>1078292
You talk like a fuckwit
>>
>>1078292
Thanks for confirming you never played any given HoI game
>>
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Does anyone have any guides for how battles works in this game? I'm still learning this game but don't want to end up wasting research on placebos every campaign.
>>
>>1078378
Infantry with artillery is pretty much all you will ever need for entry-level gameplay.
If you can afford it, you could get yourself a d6+1 of motorised divisions for their insane speed (fastest land unit in DH) and DON'T put artillery on them
If you are a newfag, ignore airforce and especially navy.
If you are a newfag, DO NOT research into tanks, unless you're Germany
DO NOT research marines if you don't plan some extensive and elaborate landing, never research mountaineers (total waste) and as a newfag, ignore parartoopers.
Since you are new, ignore militia, too, which is good for exploits, but only when you know what the fuck you are doing
Read up wiki on how to use HQ properly, they are a godsend
NEVER research into doctrines you don't have half-decent team for. Skill 5 and at least 2 related skills are pre-requested, and anything below skill 7 and at least 3 related skills is shit anyway

tl;dr infantry with artillery is all you will ever need, token mobile force is nice, but not necessary
>>
>>1078378
Oh, and this is especially important in DH: whenever situation allows for it, you should be upgrading at least units that are two techs behind.
To elaborate
Infantry '26 to '31 to '36 to '39 means you are paying full price each time
But infantry '26 to '39 means you get discount: '36 will be at half price and time, and '31 will be at quarter the price and time.
A common newfag mistake is to push upgrades non-stop, especially in the pre-war setup. Don't do that. Stall the upgrades as much as you can. It will save you a fuckload.
>b-but battle
Don't fight, unless your infantry is at the very least '36 and preferably '39
>>
>>1078353
>discussion is about DH, bringing HoI3 out of the blue.
???

Hey retard, I’m not sure if you know how to read, but check what posts I was replying to. Than check what the last post was about. Than before that.


This has always been a hoi3 discussion, the fact that you have poor reading comprehension changes nothing. Just makes you look dumber.

>>1078371
>post info from the wiki because you were unaware of a mechanic
Yeah you clearly never played

Lmfao
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>>1078415
>but check what posts I was replying to
Ironic, given you replied to >>1075755, which has DH stats
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>>1078415
You will never get laid if you continue acting like such a spastic.
>>
>>1078419
>>1072634 is hoi3 stats retard.

Look who everyone was originally replying to fucking mudbrain

Kys illiterate third worlder
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>>1078529
>>
>>1078535
>>
>>1078529
You are upset. You should dilate. Then you will not be so bitchy and irritable.
>>1078535
>He's having a seizure.
They get really emotional and upset when they miss a dilation. Things get gummed up and they cant urinate properly. They become very irritable. Sort of ironic since they wanted to be women.
>>
>>1078378
https://hoi2.paradoxwikis.com/The_Complete_Newbie_Guide
https://hoi2.paradoxwikis.com/Beginner's_guide_to_army_management
https://hoi2.paradoxwikis.com/Militia_Strategy_Guide
https://hoi2.paradoxwikis.com/Conducting_Blitzkrieg_offensives

That's basically all you will ever need to play HoI - not just HoI2, but any HoI. And since DH is HoI2++, go fucking figure. However, important note: ignore their remarks on brigades. They are for vanilla HoI2, and don't hold any fucking value whatsoever to DH. Especially since it flags two of very solid brigades as "worthless" due to completely different stats and impact on combat. Brigades in DH were reworked and re-stated to make them more than worthwhile, and a combo of artillery and engineers is particularly potent, for they are cheap as fuck, while allow your infantry to move at unpenalised speed and overcome any sort of terrain obstacles
>>
>>1073493
>tearing off each other's shirts and embracing in brotherly hugs
I dunno about that part but the rest is correct.
>>
Arsenal of Democracy's combat simulation beats anything else. Darkest Hour is reddit af.
>>
>>1080476
>Exact same combat resolution, with near-identical modifiers, the main difference being DH's naval combat sucks slightly more and its air combat sucking slightly less
>LE REDDIT
If you just wanted to bump this thread, at least do everyone a favour and don't do so via blatant bait.
>>
Reasons to like DH
1) DH players are distinguished fine Gentlemen. Whereas hoi4 players are mostly children, and far too many hoi3 players are assholes who were abused as children.
2) Stat whoring. Who doesn't like stat whoring? Fuck yes, all superior players love stats. Okay, it might be said that hoi3 also has stat whoring, but the difference is that hoi3 stat whoring contains way too much fluff which is completely unimportant.
3) DH players are usually well educated and intelligent. They have good reading comprehension and attention spans longer than ten seconds. A hoi4 player couldn't have read this far before being hopelessly distracted by the LED lights of his computer. A hoi3 might be able to read this far but thinks he is reading the instructions for using a microwave oven.
4) DH doesn't give you any STDs, whereas hoi4 not only gives you AIDS but also doesn't have the goddamned decent courtesy to give you a reach around as well.
5) DH is like getting a blow job from a stunningly gorgeous woman who later makes you a tasty dinner. Hoi3 is like getting a blow jobs from your fat and ugly grandmother. Hoi4 is like getting a blowjob from a bearded transsexual midget who not only farts loudly while doing it but also secretly films the act and then shows everyone.

There, I hope this sums up why everyone should like DH
>>
>>1080476
I want to try it but its map looks so ass
>>
>>1080810
Just like your mother then
>>
Ah yes, my first Grand Strategy. I cant remember how many times I played with my country and never cared about the major powers.
>>
>>1078795
Thanks, I'll take a look
>>
>>1080803
you totally have this wrong

HOI4 is the hot girl that looks good, but is boring as fuck in bed and doesn't even give good head

HOI3 is that mediocre looking girl that can ride you like a fucking animal and gives u dyson level suction.

HOI2 is like an older woman who you used fuck a while ago and while she's still pretty good. Time has definitely taken its toll and it just isnt quite as good as you remember.
>>
>>1082498
unironically this
>>
>>1080803
Literally all you do is make doomstacks in DH and steamroll the ai where they are least prepared.

Hoi 3 Is infinitely better i think your just a smooth brain who cant learn how to set up a proper OOB
>>
>>1082498
Hoi4 is trying her best okay
>>
>>1080490
i survived german invasion as poland by putting all my units into my capital. AoD is combat perfection, DH is a mess.
>>
>>1082755
No.
Hoi4 is that entitled little bitch who had rich parents and grew up expecting everyone to pay her attention. She got everything she wanted without once making any effort. She grew up lazy and entitled. Of course she attracted a swarm of thirsty stupid little boys who were impressed becasue she dressed and acted like a slut, but personality wise she was vapid, ignorant, and devoid of any imagination. No wonder she is a really bad in bed. She cant be bothered making any effort and is too selfish to try. She is more used than a piece of gym equipment, but those who use her come away feeling dirty, degraded, and unsatisfied.
>>
>>1082742
In hoi3 Germany doesn't even need to build a proper fleet or gain air supremacy to invade UK.
>MAH SUPERIOR HOI3!!!!!
Why are hoi3 tards like this?
The answer is simple. Hoi3 tards had mothers who smoked too much crack while they were in the womb. Then when the hoi3 tards were born the black pimp who delivered them dropped them head first on the ground. As if that wasn't enough their mothers bottle fed them ethanol instead of milk.
Once you know this it becomes much easier to understand why hoi3 tards talk drivel and constantly chimp out.
>>
>>1083003
its this retard again
>>
>>1061100
i like the OOBs in 3 but i fucking hate the sliders. every time i boot up that game i just see that screen of sliders and nope out
>>
>>1083005
What the fuck are you talking about? This is well known. Fuck off back to hoi4 noob.
>>1083090
filtered by sliders, lmfao
ngmi
>>
>>1082823
You are aware you can do that in every single motherfucking HoI game... right? I'd say HoI3 makes it the hardest, since provinces can only have 10 IC each, which isn't enough to supply stack big enough to pull this.
>>
>>1083095
Nta, but sliders in HoI are just retarded, given you can move them grand total of 10 times through the game and you always want to go full Hawk anyway (regardless of your country), cutting it to even less moves to make.
>>
>>1083323
I get butthurt when retards like you somehow see it as a mark of pride to speak a literal mongrel language like English natively.
t.bong
>>
Started playing AoD. Having a blast. One thing I don't understand why is my production line cluttered with all sorts of shit?
>>
>>1083323
I don't get it, there is nothing wrong with not being born in Canada, the UK, Ausfailia, or New Zealand, so unless it is an American from a few certain states who teases you, you have really nothing to care about.
t. ESL
>>
>>1083943
>>1083976
seethe
>>
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>>1083988
>>
>>1083243
you sure as hell cant do it in AoD
>>1083965
It's pre production plans for AI.
>>
>>1084060
>you sure as hell cant
>source: trust me, bro
>>
Let's get the facts straight.
DH is a game played by classy Gentlemen with impeccable manners and good taste.
HoI3 is played by uncouth bully boys who like to hang out in gangs and mug strangers.
hoi4 is a playground inhabited by drooling imbeciles and children.
Its really that simple.
Now, with those facts established, lets discuss DH and talk about unit statistics.
>>
I started a DH campaign and I'm realizing I sort of prefer HOI3 the scale is much more grand
>>
>>1072387
I demolished the Soviet supplies which starved them to death. Didn't even need an army.
>>
>>1084479
The problem with DH is how inconsistent the scale is. You in the same time have provinces that represent half of state AND some "tactical" speck on the map, that's enlarged and then further divided on sub-provinces (I'm looking at you, Iwo Jima). That's fine and dandy, but buildings cost and units move the same regardless of the scale of the object, which gets super fucking annoying in zero time.
Still, '33 start as KMT... man, that's fun as hell.
>>
>>1084497
>The problem with DH is how inconsistent the scale is.
>he doesn't know
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>>1085722
Way to fucking miss the fucking point. Retards gonna retard, I guess...
>>
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>>1085738
>>
>>1085742
>Continues to miss it
Nigger, I helped to port FODD on this map. Which part of "inconsistent scale" you didn't get the first time around?
>>
>>1085967
Dunno why you're so mad about funny screenshots
>>
>>1085722
>>1085742
>Maps has more provinces
>They are still in random shapes and require random amount of time to cross over
>>
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/darkest-hour-patch-1-05-2-hot-fix-release.1530186/

It's not entirely dead. AC talking in other threads about taking suggestions for stuff like JAP-SOV war.
>>
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>>1061075
>>1061075
>>1061075
Its clear from lurking ITT that theres a lot of old vet HOI players here
Can anyone put into words why HOI4 at its core feels inferior to the other games, or "lesser"? What I mean is that althought hoi4 is the only hoi that is still active, still has updates, active modding community, and the only way to get MP matches, it has superior graphics, but the gameplay feels off
Why are naval invasions so OP? Am I just not understanding naval combat, or should my navy prevent enemy landings? As long the enemy doesnt have naval control over X water, why should the provinces next to it be able to be invaded if i have my boats guarding it?
Why do supplies feel off? Why cant you zerg rush anymore? Wtf is wrong with combat width, to the point that you can win while defending against 5x your numbers?
It shouldnt matter how good or trained or advanced tech your units are, if you have 4 divs and Im attacking with 20, YOU DIE.
Strat bombing doesnt do anything AFAIK. Naval combat is wonky.

Am i the only one picking up on all this? Also HOI4 is objectively overrun with kids and teenagers who HOI4 was their first HOI. Its also been memed to death by faggy youtube personalities who make everyone wanna emulate them by playing the game at max or near max speed while also letting the AI battle planner shit do everything for them, EVEN IN MP
>t. played hoi3 then DH then hoi4
Basically its been too long since i played hoi3 and dh, and since i like many games i dont play hoi4 enough to be able to KNOW with certainty what I'm talking about, need other vets opinions
>>
>>1087435
also when it comes to
>It shouldnt matter how good or trained or advanced tech your units are, if you have 4 divs and Im attacking with 20, YOU DIE.
it shouldnt matter what terrain bonuses you have
>>
What is the ideal wing size that you guys use in Blacker Ice, 3 or 4?
Is there a point where the stacking penalty is worth it for extra squadrons?
>>
>>1087435
Here's what I feel.
I'll start with the disadvantage that has been in the game since day 1, having a distinction between "military factories" and "civilian factories." It makes zero logical sense and is an unnecessary distinction that requires attention in an area that isn't worthy of it. Building generic industry in HOI3 and having sliders was superior because it was as intricate as it needed to be, and nothing more.
Another has already been pointed out here, the division designer and recruitment. Divisions are now interchangeable, replaceable, and completely devoid of individuality. It used to be you would design for specific purposes. I feel this system was more enjoyable to micro and complementary with strategizing around.
I'm wall of texting here, but air combat is retarded now. Why do I have to be forced to fly in this predefined region? Same thing applies to naval combat.
I don't like the ship designer, I don't like the tank designer, perhaps these are biases and something I would get over, but I still haven't. (I do like stellaris btw).
>Why do supplies feel off?
The whole logistic system is a complete mess, especially after the last DLC. Why does building a warehouse to distribute supplies cost almost 3 times that of a civilian factory? Railways are no longer considered part of infrastructure and have to be built separately to supply the hubs. Infrastructure only applies to distributing supplies to troops IN the state with that supply hub? What, WHY.

In summary, the core problem I've had with HOI4 has been this: the game is generally too streamlined and dumbed-down while having these weird mechanics that are unnecessarily complicated in areas that don't need them. Ex: tank designer, supply system, separate production queues for guns, support eq, artillery, etc. It feels like they're just trying to give us something to do.
HOI3 was complex and spreadsheet simulator when it needed to be, and wasn't when it wouldn't have enhanced the experience.
>>
>>1087435
>Also HOI4 is objectively overrun with kids and teenagers
>Also mentally deficient adults who have the maturity of kids.
There's the problem. Hoi4 was deliberately dumbed down.
>>
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>>1087435
>Can anyone put into words why HOI4 at its core feels inferior to the other games, or "lesser"?
Darkest Hour is a WW2 strategy game.
HOI4 is a strategy game that takes place during 1936-194x.

A lot of HOI4's failings can be attributed to the fact that the game was designed with accommodating the AI. AI has never not been an issue for Paradox and they decided to design their gameplay systems for the AI instead of making an AI for their systems. See Focus Trees, Air Combat, Naval Combat, Battle Planner, etc.

Also the level abstraction is fucking wonky and inconsistent. We're composing airwings out of individually produced aircraft but I'm not allowed to focus my airwings on individual provinces. Land combat occurs at the province level but we are forced to work with regions for everything else, most egregiously during peace deals.

I could go on. HOI4 and other adjacent Paradox titles marked a shift from "making money so you can make games" to "making games so you can make money", if that makes sense. The seeds existed before going public, but that basically sealed the casket of "old Paradox".

pic unrelated
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>>1087795
In an ideal world hoi would have consisted of better hoi3 reiterations with constant improvements aimed at eliminating problems and game play. In some respects it looks like at least some of the Paradox staff were trying to address some of the more irritating issues.
>HQ's were often indestructible and would often do more to hold up an advance than actual enemy combat units. This was fixed.
>On rare occasions units engaged in combat would sometimes inexplicably vanish. Not shattered, not overrun, not retreating into enemy controlled provinces, but just simply vanish. This was fixed.
But in other regards the rot must have set in elsewhere long before.. Major issues remained. The "For the Motherland" version had late start date scenarios which looked like they had been hastily cobbled together by an intern with no knowledge of WW2. This was the third reiteration of hoi3 and the fact that the late start date scenarios were complete nonsense is as inexplicable as the vanishing combat units.
>A 1944 Scenario with a ridiculously overpowered full strength German army facing an entirely out of supply Allied D-Day force.
>A 1942 Scenario where some German tech is more advanced than what is found in the 1943 Scenario.
In addition to that there was still obviously much work to improve Naval warfare and improve AI. In hoi3 the player would never encounter the likes of a surprise German Ardennes offensive. There would never be strong armored reserves held behind the enemy lines to counter any major offensive. Tag switching would reveal the AI doing the most ridiculous things, all of which meant SP was more of a tutorial rather than a WW2 simulation, even with harder difficulty settings and a host of house rules.
Many hoi3 vets expected hoi4 to address the existing issues and to make at least some incremental improvements to AI coding. Instead we received the abomination which was hoi4. At that point all hope was lost.
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>>1087893
>at least some incremental improvements to AI coding
As bad as the AI was in HOI3, I still feel it's more competent than the AI in HOI4. Perhaps that's just a function of HOI4's mechanics being unable to hide its retarded AI, but when I defeat an african country and capture several thousand infantry equipment from a state with a single military factory, it's pretty obvious where the "difficulty" is coming from.
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>>1069436
Shut the fuck up DH with KR is great
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Going to reinstall DH and HOI3 after reading this thread spent many years playing them and they both have much more SOVL than shitty hoi4 with mods
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>>1087691
>having a distinction between "military factories" and "civilian factories." It makes zero logical sense and is an unnecessary distinction

This is true. Chrystler built several tens of thousands of Sherman’s on dodge civilian passenger vehicle assembly lines.

Chrystlers vast network of parts suppliers, engineers and designers, and huge factory base meant chrystler was able to out produce every german tank manufacturer combined by over 5,000 units.
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>>1087897
>As bad as the AI was in HOI3, I still feel it's more competent than the AI in HOI4.

>AI naval Invades in hoi3
Shit, they got me, I gotta quit or reload a save now :(

>AI naval invades in hoi4
Lol that’s not even a port? Wtf these niggas doing? Wait where’s the rest of the invasion group? Just two divisions in a mountain providence next to my guarded port? Lmfao okay I guess the AI will continue to routinely delete units this way all game, ez.
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>>1087912
I did see the AI mount a very impressive invasion in hoi3 a few times. But in unusual circumstances. Once playing as the USA I declared war on the Allies and invaded Canada. The French and Brits sent what appeared to be their entire armies across the Atlantic to invade the East coast of the US, along with plentiful air and naval support. Having being lulled into the idea that hoi3 AI invasions are useless I was surprised to see such a large force manage to cut out a huge chunk of my territory. If the US victory points were not so decentralized they would have won. As it was I had plenty of time and space to retreat and reorganize until I could beat them off.
Another time I saw the AI allies invade Holland with a huge army which eventually invaded and defeated the German AI. Usually they invade in a piecemeal fashion, fail to take major ports, and then sit around waiting to be destroyed.
I also saw the AI US invade Japan. Successfully. Which is pretty rare.
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>>1087907
keyed
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>>1087924
my puppet turkey (as axis hungry) naval invaded isreal for me lol.

I’ve also played as axis minors focusing on naval gameplay, I find that when I sunk enough of the UK navy, Italy naval invades mainland England by themselves.

>I also saw the AI US invade Japan. Successfully.
This almost happened during my Italy play through. We beat the Soviet Union as axis, but there were (literal) fucking us army rangers in mainland japan and a huge fleet. I sent alpini and paratroopers to the mountains of japan to help reclaim the mainland.

Japan had plenty of manpower and recovered fine, we retook the island, and the RM Mussolini, my personally named “super heavy battleship”, will remain in Japanese ports to assist the Japanese navy and potentially shore bomb the shit out of more us invaders
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>>1087924
Do you think that the IRL allies OR the AI from hoi3 could somehow destroy Germany IF they had already beaten the USSR?
Why did Germany lose WWI after beating Russia? Does their defeat in WWI after beating Russia mean that even if they beat them again they could still lose?
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>>1088000
Germany lost WWI because of the British blockade, internal dissent, and exhaustion on the Western Front against the Entente forces, which were being bolstered by the arrival of more American troops everyday. The Turks had been solidly beaten by the British and French and Austria-Hungary was disintegrating. Nazi Germany could never have really "beaten" the USSR although some kind of alt-Germany that wasn't trying to exterminate all Slavs could easily have. The best case scenario for the Nazis in the East would be to secure as much as land as logistically possible and take the oil fields in the south. But even in this case they would still have to invest manpower and resources in fighting partisans and remnant Soviet forces. It would still be possible for the Western Allies to win the war even in the most optimistic scenario for Germany in the east.
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>>1088028
>wasn't trying to exterminate all Slavs could easily have
>t. bluepilled
https://www.bitchute.com/video/qzmnqSL5iUAv/
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>>1088028
>although some kind of alt-Germany that wasn't trying to exterminate all Slavs could easily have.
Still wouldn't. The truly important point is in economy and the way how industry operated, along with decision making from Soviet invasion onaward. In other words - you would require German industry to be actually as efficient as propaganda claimed, while the war would be run entirely by people like Manstein
>inb4 Manstein was a meme, too
Yeah, but he was literally the only person in the top echelon who understood logistics on any fucking level, something that rest of the top brass continuously ignored for the whole war. And that alone makes him more impactful.
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>>1088037
If Germany was run by competent people I think they would have been able to get considerable support from the local population after all they had suffered under Stalin. Would not have guaranteed victory but certainly possible especially if they focused on achieving something like a restoration of the terms of Brest-Litovsk rather than the conquest of all European Russia.
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>>1088000
I would need to do a lot of research and write pages to justify any of my specific answers. But for the TLDR.
>Do you think that the IRL allies could somehow destroy Germany IF they had already beaten the USSR?
No. Other than nuking them into surrender.
>OR the AI from hoi3
Definitely not. The AI generally sucks at making invasions. The examples I gave in my previous post are exceptions, not the rule. Once Germany beats Russia they have a huge ass army that just sits around twiddling their thumbs. I have yet to see the AI use nukes. Even if nukes are used the game still requires boots on victory points to force a surrender. At least in the versions I have played.
>Why did Germany lose WWI after beating Russia?
Haven't read enough about this topic so I am just regurgitating the general narrative.
1) The economic blockade reducing Germany to resource depletion and starvation. The difference here is Germany occupied much of western Russia and forced a peace on them becasue of the Russian revolution. I guess the Germans couldn't not access the economic resources of the area they occupied with any degree of efficiency, which is presumably why the blockade continued to work.
2) Huge losses in manpower on the western front which was further exacerbated by the American entry into the war with fresh American armies, tipping the balance in the Allied favor.
3) Swelling public discontent on the home front and the prospect of domestic revolution, brought upon by deteriorating economic conditions and the realization by senior German commanders that defeat on the western front was now inevitable due to the increasing disparity in forces.
>Does their defeat in WWI after beating Russia mean that even if they beat them again they could still lose?
No. In WW2 the Germans didn't have to contend with a western front after the fall of France. In WW1 the are facing an enemy still operating from a logistical base in France and amply supplied by large functioning ports.
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>>1088041
If you decide to first ignore the strategic build-up for your industry and then let idiots calling the shorts on further mis-managing it, not being a cunt to conquered locals (while the whole concept of conquering them came from treating them as subhumans) is the definition of "too little, too late"
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This is hilarious. Retards actually consuming the propaganda.
Germany destroys Russia in 1941 if there is no invasion of Greece. Infact, if Italy did not commit itself everywhere and simply focused on the south and not over extending against Greece, both Greece and Yugoslavia would have been axis-friendly nations as Spain was. They would not have played any significant part in the war.

In that case the invasion of the Soviets can be expedited by around a month or two, and that would have allowed Germany's strategic objectives to be fulfilled even faster. Moscow would have fallen and in all likelihood with an even quicker advance so would Leningrad. At that point Stalingrad would fall in 1942 without any overextention and the Allies' operations in the Mediterranean would be irrelevant. Without the soviet union the UK comes to the diplomacy table and surrenders.
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>muh muh muh Greece doesn't matter and soviets pull something out of their ass! Russia strong!
Nah. Germany encircled and extended as much as you could even feasibly imagine in a single spring campaign. Their logistics were insanely stretched to their limit.
The strategic errors taken in 1942 would never be the case if their initial 1941 aims were reached. Blaming Germany for their pre-war ally Italy causing inconceivable fuck ups in diplomacy and wars is the point you get past stupidity and just begin to lie to yourself though.
The combined might of the allies was barely enough to beat the Germans on their worst day. Barely.
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>>1088056
>>1088062
absolutely braindead
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>>1082823
That's historically plausible. Part of the reason the German offensive was so successful (before the Soviets came up from behind) was poor positioning of Polish troops across an indefensible line.
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>>1082498
>HOI3 is that mediocre looking girl that can ride you like a fucking animal and gives u dyson level suction.
Why are 5/10s such semen demons?
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>>1088067
What's your retort? Frantically trying to postulate that the Germans were teetering on collapse and that their skeleton of an economy was being powered only on stolen gold, all gleaned from the insightful and helpful observations of a dirty kike?
How do you explain the literally hundreds of battles where Germans overperformed and outdid their enemies? Or that the Russians themselves admitted they were on the brink of collapse and had gotten down to the last dregs of their manpower pool?
A single extra spring week would have saw another million ruskies in the fields dead or encircled and captured. That's just obvious.

You don't have to constantly eschew reality to try and project your faggotry in every conceivable scenario. There's a reason why every HOI game is ruined, it's because of flaming niggerloving queers like you that are incapable of simply admitting basics and instead quiver behind established norms and mannerisms that your fellow discordtranny grooming fellows have convinced you is right and proper.
Feel free to respond with another limp wristed gawking. Get off this board nigger.
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>>1088103
You seem mad.
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>>1088091
>i survived german invasion as poland by putting all my units into my capital.
Yeah, sometimes you can get away with doing cheesy shit like that. Its a game after all.
>That's historically plausible
So wait. You are claiming that sticking the entire Polish army into Warsaw is a HISTORICALLY PLAUSIBLE war winning strategy. Just hold out against the Wehrmacht until they call it quits. Maybe counterattack through the sewers and rout their armies with cavalry.
>>That's historically plausible
Turn every house into a munitions factory and grow crops on top of the roof tops.
>>That's historically plausible
Wait until the Germans run out of artillery shells, bullets and bombs and then charge out and bite them to death.
>>That's historically plausible
Jesus Christ. Your mother's boyfriends must have run a train on her while you were still in her womb. All those penises prodding into your fetal head for hours on end caused you irreparable brain damage. Because there is no other explanation for you thinking the Polish army should have simply concentrated in Warsaw and held out until they somehow won.

Gentlemen. This drooling subhuman imbecile can vote. His vote can make a difference in the way an entire country is governed. This is why democracy is bad idea. But that is not the worse part. He consumes oxygen. He consumes water. He occupies space. But even that is not the worse. The worse is the fact that one day, by accident, this cretin might breed and so create a whole litter of barely sentient dolts. Furthermore you tax dollars will likely make the major contribution towards their upbringing.
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>>1088164
>Yeah, sometimes you can get away with doing cheesy shit like that. Its a game after all.
Cheesy shit like this, combat results feel inferior in DH to AoD. I've played all Hoi 2 variants extensively but the combat in DH just feels off, and me ruining german Ai by sticking 30 divisions into warsaw is an example of that.
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>>1088046
>Once Germany beats Russia they have a huge ass army that just sits around twiddling their thumbs. I have yet to see the AI use nukes.
Ah, never played the latest hoi3 build, thier finest hour, clearly.
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>>1088458
No, obviously you got me there. Last version I played was For the Motherland. So how well does the AI use nukes in TFH? In FtM nukes when used by the player had to be dumped on a target city within a day, to gain maximum national unity hit, otherwise if you dropped them several days each succeeding nuke would only produce a trivial amount of NU damage. Until I found this out by reading the forums I thought nukes were utterly useless. Although iirc they were still pretty much of a gimmick. I think one of the few times I used them to force a surrender was on Japan, and that was having occupied some of the Southern islands VPs.

If AI using nukes was implemented in TFH what else was improved? I read somewhere they introduced Landing ships for amphibious assault but apart from that never really heard any other detail.
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>>1088535
Tfh made astounding changes to the lua and AI. The game looks radically different from FTM, late game is playable well into the 50s as well with the AI continuing to build shit and create war goals. In all my games I’m looking forward to operation unthinkable/leaving my faction and declaring on everyone.

Not sure about nukes, I usually have the major major powers wiped out by then. Also a struggling AI will usually not use IC to build nuclear reactors when they have a huge unbalance of power compared to the enemy. They’ll build divisions instead of nuclear reactors and never get nukes if they’re getting thier ass kicked.
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>>1088164
Why do hoi3/DH threads always have the worst schizos of this entire board (which is saying a lot)
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>>1091771
Kill yourself you bumping faggot
Kill yourself second time over trying to refuel a dead quarrel
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>schizo retard doesn’t understand the concept of a slow board
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>>1091946
>Thread is completely fucking dead
>Finally hits page 11 after few days of inactivity
>Instantly bumped with retarded bait post
>S-slow b-board
Here, get the (You) and go fuck yourself with it.
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>>1091948
Every hoi3 or DH thread always gets at least one miserable little asshole who constantly shitposts. Probably a filtered hoi4 player who gets bullied a lot irl.
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>>1091803
Why are there people spamming this in multiple threads?
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>DH thread
>hoi3 fags shit up the thread
>hoi4 zoomers false flag
I just wanted to talk about my favorite country. China in DH feels leagues better than hoi3/hoi4 it feels like a war of attrition and resistance. The initial debuffs hit you hard but if you focus enough men, have dug in, and have forts you could still hold the Japanese off. Hoi3 is too easy to abuse and hoi4 made division spam so east that losing a division hardly feels like a loss since they are so replaceable. HoiV should take more inspiration from DH than hoi4 and hoi3.
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I picked the first Hearts of Iron game from a bargain bin and my dad bought it for me for 5€ or something when I was a kid. I didn't know how to play it, then with HOI 2 I became a certified autist and remain so to this day. The eternal Swede still hasn't added a Finnish focus tree to the fourth game :D at least there's riveting South-African and Mexican etc. WWII gameplay
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>>1064364
Nah, YouTube ruined the old hardware hustle. Guys are still asking 1k for teslas and quadros
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bump
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>>1064706
Kek, mad as fuck
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>>1068072
DH came out in 2011, you’re just dumb.
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I think we can all agree that DH is like a fine three course dinner, created by the most skilled chef and served up to you by buxom bitches scantily clad in the sheerest negligees. They giggle and wiggle their asses as they put the embossed plates on the solid oak table.
By comparison hoi4 is the leftover slops from an orphanage's kitchen. Which the alcoholic cook urinated in. Served from grime encrusted buckets. Fit only for pigs. Which is why hoi4 fans eagerly lap it up, since they are in fact pigs.
Hoi3 is just a rather plain, but nutritious, meal cooked for you by your mother when she is feeling particularly tired. It fills you up, it tastes okay, but you dont feel like it was anything special.
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>>1095719
The only thing that it's possible to agree upon is that you have mental illness, with n-th variation of the same post being made.
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Paragraph spamming intelligent autist anon, we salute you!
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>>1096163
You simply have no creativity. You will never be able to write creative prose like that. Its beyond your capability. You lack both the intelligence and the education. You are a peasant. You know this to be true. A peasant who is envious and mad because superior people like me are so obviously superior. Now eat your slops. Peasant.
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>>1096351
>Shitposting and low quality bait
>Creativity
Pick one
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>>1096250
I can see that you are a superior person with refined tastes. You are Gentleman of fine breeding. Now after we give the guttersnipes a jolly good thrashing with our canes, lets hit the town and sire some bastards with the local peasant girls. Then afterwards we could enjoy quaffing a few Brandies at the local tavern while betting on the nightly bare knuckles fist fight. Its rather fun to slum it with the riff raff sometimes. Wot.
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>>1096356
You will always remain low born and rather stupid. Much like a pig. Such is your envy at my superior intellect and upbringing your writhe with anger. I enjoy your anger. It is amusing. Stay angry and may deign to drop some trinkets for your efforts.
I do say, you do understand such terms as "deign" and "trinkets", dont you? But of course not! Why, I should expect pond scum to have a better grasp of the English language!
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>>1087908
Hoi4 economy is stupid. The only good thing about the economic model is the production lines. The rest is complete shit. I could probably design a better system with a bottle of vodka and a couple days free time that would actually model how war economies and economic growth worked. Then again, after seeing victoria 3s "genius revoltuinary" economic simulation I think somehow hoi4 could actually have been way worse. I would rather try to shove crayons up a fat womans ass than try to rationalize why they chose to do things the way they did.
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>>1096841
The entire problem with HoI4 economy is that the core principle for design was "no money" and "no resource stockpile". Not only this forced the idiotic civilian factories as a money replacement, but there is no stockpile of any kind, you either have access to resources, or you don't, which goes beyond retarded.
But PDX managed to out-do the initial retardation, as they've re-introduced to the game first supplied, then fuel, then supply infrastructure system, all while operating on the basic premise that those things should be avoided at all costs. So we don't have money and we don't have resource stockpile, but the elements removed from the game to justify it are back in it anyway. Brilliant!
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>>1096363
Quite
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>>1096363
Absolutely spiffing idea my dear chap!
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do you guys think the new HoI 4 dlc is going to allow planes to attack army units. You know, like we had 10 years ago in HoI 3
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>go to fitgirl
>decide to torrent HoI4
>pick South Africa
>play for a while
>eventually independent from UK
>attack UK for land since they're dealing with germany in europe
>get ass raped

How do people have fun in this game? What the fuck are you supposed to do?

>>1102316
jesus is this seriously how it's setup? Took me ages to figure out what I needed to do in order to use planes. Why the fuck can't I just focus army units with the planes??? It's just an area of effect? What a lazy fucking way to implement it and super boring worst strategy game ive ever played
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>>1102316
>>1103612
>Samefagging your own post
There are already three (3) other threads dedicated to bitching about HoI4 and its upcoming DLC
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>>1103650
not me mate this is the first hearts of iron game that i've played but if previous games have that functionality I'll try them out instead
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>>1104264
I can switch my IP, too, you know
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>>1104278
first time I've said this but meds now
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>>1103650
You mad that I bumped the hoi2 thread schizo tranny?
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>>1104329
>>1104738
>>1104278
>>1103650
Why do spastics have to ruin a perfectly good thread with their chimping?
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>>1104278
lmao
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>>1105472
>lmao
Why do only spastics do this?
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>>1088105
you will never be a woman



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