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>play wrpg
>it's a complex tapestry of political machinations vying against each other juxtaposed with the lives of innocents caught up in the struggle

>play jrpg
>it's writing so juvenile it would be rejected from a saturday morning cartoon

I like the idea of jrpgs, but my biggest pet peeve is the writing. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I can't stand how they tell their stories. Are there any jrpgs that tell their stories in a more western way?

I've heard some positive things about Final Fantasy XII having a political story, but I'm put off by the protagonist who behaves in a very meek and effeminate manner, and by the setting looking like a cheap knock-off of Star Wars, completely with tie-fighter-esque dogfights and goofy alien-like races. Does it get better?
>>
>>89283
The dialogue on the right is more memorable and entertaining.
>>
Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
SaGa Frontier 2
>>
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>>89283
>WRPG based on novels
>JRPG based on some jap's shower thoughts

Is this really a fair comparison
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>>89315
Thanks, I'll check them out. It looks like I can emulate all of them.
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You sound like a teenager who thinks big words = good writing. The opera scene from FF6 is better storytelling and was more memorable to people than most stuff that has ever been come up in WRPGs, which are mostly written by complete neckbeards who try to retell lord of the rings for the upteenth time. My advice to you would be to kill yourself for making such a shit bait thread.
>>
>>89329
It's the other way around:
>Although neither the dialog nor narrative were written by Feist himself, the game is considered canon, having been novelized as Krondor: The Betrayal five years later. Events in the game were also written into the Riftwar novels.

Betrayal at Krondor is an original video game story that later ended up being novelized.
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>>89360
Betrayal at Krondor is not the first book in the Riftwar saga...
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>>89360
>Events in the game were also written into the Riftwar novels
neat
bet the game's writers were chuffed
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>>89379
Daughter of the Empire is the only Riftwar book that matters
>>
I think each rpgs should stay as they are since they both appeal to a niche audience
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>>89428
That doesn't mean that Betrayal of Krondor did not have books worth of material written by a best selling novelist to base off while Final Fantasy VI was written by video game devs.
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>>89283
wasn't suikoden all wars and brother vs brother?
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>>89436
The joke is that WRPG used to be based off amazing stories while now they are shallow written by tumblr for tumblr novellas.
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>>89283
Final fantasy Tactics might be up your speed. It's FFXII without the gay shit
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>>89283
To be fair, the mc was supposed to be Basch, the veteran knight, but was changed since square thought Vaan would relate to players more.
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>>89458
1 was son vs father
2 was fren vs fren
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>>89465
>protagonist is a teenage boy who literally wears a thong and has child-bearing hips
>no gay shit
>>
>>89486
close enough
hero looks a bit gay in both tho
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>>89355
imagine being this retarded, honestly imagine it

this anon came into a thread about someone genuinely asking a question, however he's so stuck up his own ass and insecure about wrpg vs jrpg any SLIGHT critiicism of jrpg is trolling, proceeds to rant about how some random scene from some game he played had IS VASTLY SUPERIOR TO WRPG SHIT REEEEEEEEE, he compares this to every wrpg ever made, none of which he has ever played himself because he's a fucking weeb

fucking imagine, what leads someone to do this? how pathetic and insecure do you have to be to end up like this anon? and he didn't even give a fucking example of jrpg with western style writing, proving he either plays very few jrpgs or plays the popular shit like FF and maybe persona and xenoblade

god your pathetic
>>
>>89283
>it's a complex tapestry of political machinations
Name 5 made after 2010.
>>
>>89283
>>play wrpg
>>it's a complex tapestry of political machinations vying against each other juxtaposed with the lives of innocents caught up in the struggle
Every WRPG I’ve played always had “this is a bad guy you are a good guy no gray morality just go ahead and kill him” vibe to it
Also, political themes mean jack fucking shit for quality and none of it is complex
>>
>>89537
Actually, that anon seems based to me, and makes some good points. Looks like you have some growing up to do.
>>
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>>89486
And 3 was Luc vs his life
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>>89537
If you honestly think someone makes a thread saying "all JRPGs are shit" and is not trolling, you must either be beyond braindead or, more likely, OP trying to troll even further. Fuck off retard.
>>
>>89537
>>89283


>Be OP
>Suck cocks every day for free
>Make a post on a board about RPGs
>Shit talk most RPGs
>Expect people to be civil when you are not

They could have just asked for mature JPRGs without being a twat. Instead they informed everyone here they haven't played most JRPGs and that they have some growing up to do.
>>
>>89283
>play wrpg
>the story is terrible and far too short, but there are endless amounts of in-game-books which are completely unrelated to the main plot, and they're not even related to any sort of in-game lore or even any side quests, yet they exist and they are far better than the main story could ever hope to be

>play jrpg
>the plot is usually some generic trope bullshit that is overly done, but it's a trope for a reason and while it's not exactly terrible, it is certainly not in any way memorable
>>
>>89355
>Betrayal of Krondor's writing was so good that it ended up being novelized by an award-winning author
>FF6's writing is only remembered by neckbeard manchildren who think the Marvel Cinematci Universe is the pinnacle of storytelling
>THis is somehow proof that FF6 has better writing
What did he mean by this?
>>
The writing is often simpler, but simpler isn't always worse. And the presentation tends to be more entertaining in JRPGs. Things like music or how the characters move around can add a lot.
>>
>>89547
And you sound like that anon that the anon you're replying to is replying to and you're pretending to be someone else.
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>>89575
Name 17 wrpgs that do that.

HARD MODE: no TES
>>
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>>89562
Did you even read OP properly or does your brain just shut down at any JRPG criticism?
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>>89283
Vagrant Story is pretty interesting, it's about an elite agent chasing after a cult leader that kidnapped a duke's son and escaped to an old cursed city.
>>
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>>89568
How was the OP not being civil? He even says he's willing to give FFXII a chance. Are you really that sensitive that you're so easily triggered? Maybe you're on the wrong forum then.
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>>89547
im not a literal coomer, OP wanted examples of jrpgs without the shonen-tier writing and you fail to deliever, other anons who actually play more than 2 franchises of jrpg have provided multiple examples, you have not, proving you are insecure retards who dont play vidya, your probably shitting up the waifu threads as well you sad faggot
>>
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>>89592
>>
>Storytelling
>videogames

>>>/a/
>>>/lit/
>>>/tv/
>>>/co/
>>
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>other anons who actually play more than 2 franchises of jrpg have provided multiple examples, you have not, proving you are insecure retards who dont play vidya, your probably shitting up the waifu threads as well you sad faggot
>>
A percentage of shit JRPG writing is down to it being written in a foreign language and then translated.
The simplest translation will often be picked for clarity, and then there's a bunch of retards that decide to change stuff acting like moral guardians or memers
>that line is a bit rapey, can we get that changed?
>you mean the rape demon?
>yes, he is just very angry because he spilled his coffee
or
>can we get a couple of doge references in here? nobody wants to read this shit about politics
>>
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Damn, how assblasted is this JRPG fag?
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>>89283
And yet people replay FF6 to this day and no one "plays" (if it even has any gameplay) your old-ass neckbeard d&d circle-jerk, weird no?
>>
God do you remember when WRPGs were good?
Baldur's Gate 2 - 2000
Deus Ex - 200
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura - 2001
Arx Fatalis - 2002
Gothic 2 - 2002
Morrowind - 2002
Knights of the Old Republic - 2003
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines - 2004
Knights of the Old Republic 2 - 2005
What happened? Why did WRPGs die?
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>>89283
XII is a meme. It's production falling apart is painfully visible in the quality drop the game suffers.
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>>89607
That's the story synopsis at least. The actual experience of Vagrant Story is decidedly more dull unless you like endless brown corridors and browsing through the worst menu system ever made (and the majority of game time is spent browsing through menus).
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>>89669
lurk more mate, Betrayal At Krondor is mandatory mustard playing
recommended all the time
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>>89283
Problem with JRPGs is you're also playing a translated version of the script. Which means there's another layer of localization that also needs to not fuck up.
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>>89283
>Murmandamus
Do WRPGS REALLY do this?
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>>89669
Are you really accusing Betrayal of Krondor to be more a movie game than FF6? The latter doesn't even trust you to explore and restricts you down a linear path for the first half of the game, while Betrayal at Krondor trusts you in a semi-open world from the very start of the game.
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>>89283
Why do i never hear about the sequel, is it shite?
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>>89665
i dont understand his problem, OP genuinely wants to get into jrpgs but just wants better writing, then he comes in and gets super defensive over nothing and shits up the thread

also
>wojak
kek
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>>89693
Why does that lady on the left have such broad shoulders?
Also, what game is that from?
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>>89707
He means playing BoK is tedius and not something anyone wants to do in 2020 while FFVI is still played to this day.
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>>89693
>>89654
>muh translation
Do JRPGfags really?
A good story is not only conveyed through words. People are acting as if the ragtags group of rebels story that must stop the ancient evil and kill god at the end of the game will magically became great once it's properly translated.


>>89283
Play Earthbound, OP
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>>89674
Dragon Age 2 is pretty based, story and character-wise, unironically.

The only story from bioware that wasn't following an exact formula too.

Tyranny was pretty sweet too.
>>
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>>89283
Problem with FFXII in particular is that the main character is essentially irrelevant after five or so hours. IF you're arguing about localization and you don't like FFXII for that reason specifically you'll never like any JRPG because it's considered one of absolute top tier localizations.
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>>89682
But I will say that I was pleased by how much the game allowed you to just dick around areas you didn't even need to go into. Rewarding you for exploring high level areas with later game abilities, summons (if you manage to beat them) or gear was nice. The world has a nice sense of scale.
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>>89617
>>play jrpg
>it's writing so juvenile it would be rejected from a saturday morning cartoon
>I've heard some positive things about Final Fantasy XII having a political story, but I'm put off by the protagonist who behaves in a very meek and effeminate manner, and by the setting looking like a cheap knock-off of Star Wars, completely with tie-fighter-esque dogfights and goofy alien-like races. Does it get better?

What part of this is civil? Do you know anything about FF12? Does the "Complete with Tie Fighters" bit sound reasonable? What if I told you the whole thing was written to be derogatory, and that absolutely nothing about that is accurate bar the political story part. Even a minor amount of research would prove the analysis of FFXII to be factually false.

Imagine if I wrote a post like this:

Is there a single wrpg that has jrpg style gameplay?

">play wrpg
>mmo tier quests
>combat system is flawed and poorly thought up

>play jrpg
>game is actually fun with systems thought up that exist to further serve the player's enjoyment of the game

I like the idea of wrpgs but my biggest pet peeve is the gameplay. Maybe it's a cultural thing but I can't stand how most of them are glorified walking sims. Are there any wrpgs that have gameplay that's closer to the japanese style?

I've heard some positive things about Planescape: Torment, but I'm put off by most builds being worthless and the mountains of text required to get back to the combat, which is probably the worst part of the game. Does it get better?"

In what universe is what I just wrote not derogatory to WRPG fans? If I made such a bait post you'd call me out yet here you are sucking cock.
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>>89300
That's not a good thing
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>>89750
>Dragon Age 2 is pretty based
I want to be a dragon
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>>89712
it's ok.
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>>89617
>He even says he's willing to give FFXII a chance.
Why should anyone care if this fag plays something or not? You're not here to be converted in a religion or something, you retarded schizo fuck.
>>
>>89728
>Also, what game is that from?
Vagrant Story.
>>
I wish more WRPGs had JRPG storytelling structure. WRPGS always start off with huge lore dumps and then a tutorial that's designed to ease you into the lore and then you to the first town and it's lore this lore that read the lore and then you have to make Hard Decisions (which is actually a test on the lore) before you actually get into the game. JRPGs just have your town blow up while you're on some errand then the game starts and you pick up the lore as you go.
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>>89719
I don't have a problem with the OP. He stated it might be a cultural thing, so he understands that it's subjective to some extent. I disagree with his opinion, but that's not the point of the thread. I'm curious what answers people will give him.
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>>89740
>A good story is not only conveyed through words.
I don't think you actually understand just how different Japanese language is from English, though. Sure, idea and premise itself won't be changed in most cases, but that's the broad strokes thing. What really matters in writing is how its executed on moment to moment basis. If you tried really REALLY hard maybe you'd find a video game that has a genuinely good story, but that's not what people really talk about when they mention "video game writing".
>>
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>>89631
>without the shonen-tier writing
Nobody is responding because no matter what example you give as long as it isn't pretty much exactly WRPG writing it gets dismissed, because said WRPG autists only want the same story over and over. OP complaining about an "effiminate" protag is already more than enough to dismiss him as a retard. I can go on a big rant why FF7 has a fantastic and well-written story but it will be completely dismissed on superficial grounds because it doesn't fit the specific view of what is allowed to be good OP developed. In any case, you have Atlus games like Persona 2, Digital Devil Sage or Nocturne/IV:A that isn't anything like a shonen story, Mother 3, Nier Automata, Xeno games or the trails series
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>>89337
I hope you like them.
If you're dissatisfied with the ending you get in Ogre Battle 64, don't worry everyone screws up their first playthrough.
Which story branches and character recruitments you have access to are determined by how you play the game, and in a dimension that has no bearing on your actual success in engagements so most people pay it no mind
settlements have chaos/neutral/law alignments and when you first occupy a town or capture one from the enemy force the unit you send needs to match the alignment of the town.
There's no immediate gameplay ramification for being right or wrong. Correct alignment units don't recover faster for being garrisoned in a same alignment town, or get discounts on goods/services or anything. The only indication is you get a "town was liberated" notification instead of "town was captured"
anyway, doing it wrong shows you aren't in touch with the will of the masses, which is a huge part of why the overall conflict you're in is even going on, and it bites you storywise later. It does also open some unique options though
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>>89735
So you've never actually played BoK then? Because it has aged much better than FF6. Menus are intuitive and easy to control with just a mouse click. Enemies are visible in the game world and can be avoided/ambushed, unlike FF6 which still uses invisible random encounters. BaK even has different tracks of combat music, unlike FF6, which uses the same repetitive combat music (for normal battles) for the entire game.
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>>89750
>Dragon Age 2 is pretty based
Eww, nuBioware? No thank you.
>>
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>>89793
>Xeno games
>not shonen stories
Thank God I was trained to spot bullshit written by weebs on sight.
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>>89785
>I wish more WRPGs had JRPG storytelling structure. WRPGS always start off with huge lore dumps
Remind me of all the wrpgs that start with 3 hour cutscenes. Because I'm playing Persona 4 right now and it literally does that.
>>
>>89813
Only one of them is
>>
Here’s the really kicker guys: Japs consider games to be for kids and invalidates even more so than the west so naturally they writing is going to be childish because that’s who they think is going to be playing it. I greatly value writing but you’re better off reading a book if youre gonna get salty about Video games.
>>
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>>89674
>>
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>>89674
>when you realize it's been 20 years already
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>>89798
Don't bother, it's so obvious jrpg fans have never actually played the wrpgs they criticize.
The often is also true, of course, but not as much I've noticed.
>>
>>89813
See >>89674
RIP WRPGs
>>
>>89674
>Deus Ex 1820 years ago
Damn I feel old
>>
>>89786
i am too, i genuinely want to get into jrpgs but im afraid faggots would derail/kill the thread telling OP to fuck off
>>
>>89735
unironically I dropped ff6 after the first fight against kefka while I finished BaK in 6 days while spending around 30 hours on it.
>>
>>89813
To be fair Xenogears is more like Evangelion than a shonen anime. The Xenoblade games are 100% shonen tho.
>>
Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song
>open world design - go anywhere as soon as the game starts
>no jrpg level up design, skills level as you use them similar to TES games
>8 playable character POVs - this largely just chooses the starting location and opening hours of the game. It is almost like a difficulty modifier from a roguelike where a certain race/class is innately harder than another class
>Quests you can completely miss or fail - the game does not hold your hand and it expects you to fail at some things. That is okay, it isn't the end of the world
>skills that function outside of combat - your character growth and set up matters outside of combat! There are overworld skills like foraging, climbing, sneaking, mining, etc that are not for combat so you can have a weak in combat character in your group but they can pull double duty outside of combat to balance the load
>A fully fleshed out ecology system - they added an ecology system for all the monsters in the game. Wolves eat smaller mammals, if you wipe all the wolves from a zone the other animals will flourish, if you avoid wolves in that zone you'll notice the smaller mammals die out. Entire questlines need you to understand how to modify this system to your advantage
>Quests are multilayered and connect to other quests and lore - a quest to clear out some bandits in a cave will lead to a different group taking that cave over or you learn the bandits are being paid by someone responsible for some other stuff in other quests
>some quests only show up on later playthrus, to 100% the game you need to play the game to completion with all 8 characters.

I will never stop talking about this game. Ever.
>>
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>>89847
>The often is also true
>>
>>89820
Honestly I don't think Western games have mature writing at all recently. Back around >>89674 and older sure. I'd love to hear some examples of good writing in modern WRPGs though, I haven't played too many so there's probably good stuff I've missed.
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>>89813
>I was trained to spot bullshit
In a public restroom at a gas station?
>>
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>>89674
Think I miss the mediocre ones more than anything. 2004-2008/9 felt like there was a new one out every week. Just an endless train of crpgs
Drakensang
Hard to be a God
Dungeon Lords
to name a few
>>
>>89874
>I'd love to hear some examples of good writing in modern WRPGs though
*crickets*
>>
>>89869
>TES experience system
Sounds awful.
>>
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>>89855
>deus ex is older than half the posters on this board
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>>89576
I think you need to read his post again
>>
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>>89865
>To be fair Xenogears is more like Evangelion than a shonen anime. The Xenoblade games are 100% shonen tho.
>Xenoblade games are 100% shonen tho
>>
>>89869
SaGa is awesome for those reasons and others, but in terms purely of dialogue and writing (as in text), the games are super sparse and simple. It's amazing and should be played, but it doesn't seem like what OP's looking for.
>>89896
It actually works really well. SaGa games are also one of the rare cases where level scaling is well done.
>>
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>>89816
They all are, they're just veiled by 100 namedrops and sci-fi rips off. At least Takahashi stopped pretending with XB2
>>
>>89913
So it also has level scaling? But why? That's one of the worst mechanics you can have in an RPG.
>>
>>89913
OP thinks modern WRPGs have "complex tapestry of political machinations"
But can't name 1 that meets this from the past 10 years.
OP wants a cock in his mouth not serious conversation.
>>
>>89820
>M rated garbage full of sex references and F-bombs has better writing
This is your mind on the W*stern """""""civilisation""""""
>>
>>89908
>stupid effeminate faggot MC with so testosterone get two big-titted gfs who are actually weapons of mass destruction
It's worse than shonen, it's light-novel garbage
>>
>>89887
Have you looked up RPGs that have come out since the Kickstarter revival? There's a metric ton of them.
>>
>>89920
Why does he repeat the same thing 3 times in a row? I thought this was supposed to be one of the better written jrpgs?
>>
>>89874
LISA The Painful. Tho it's the same type of game as old WRPGs, it's more about the characters than the lore and politics.
>>
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>>89847
I spent most of my youth playing WRPGs, they're pretty good, I just believe JRPGs are way more artsy, have WAY better gameplay, pay more attention to music and presentation in general, and are just more fun to play because they know they are actually games. Witcher 3 has great writing but personally I don't see why that story had to be in game form, for instance. The WRPG I respect the most is New Vegas, because it has a really great story that is most effective as a game due to the empowerement it gives the player.
>>
>>89935
Maybe you should stop sucking cocks, OP.
>>
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>>89920
I don't think they were ever trying to hide it. They seemed proud of all the shonen influences.
>>
>>89896
Its just stuff like using your sword will make you level up your sword skill. Using a magic school will level up the stat that governs that magic school.

>>89913
I see it more akin to wrpgs in that it feels like a complex attempt at making a world with politics and cultures instead of being a theme park setting for you to fight things in.
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>>89920
>got filtered by Xenoblade 2
>>89935
>effeminate faggot MC
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>>89920
>people get mad at OP for saying jrpgs have worse writing on average than wrpgs
>this is writing from one of the most critically acclaimed jrpgs of all time
You guys should really consider apologizing the OP.
>>
>>89865
evangelion is actually for a teenage audience, so it's technically a shounen
imo xenogears is much better, but it's also paced horribly.
I think xenosaga, while having a slightly less interesting plot, are better games overall
>>
>>89941
It's NOT the same*
damn
>>
>>89965
If you think you already know the entire game's writing jsut from that image, what is wrong with you?
>>
>>89924
Because in SaGa the enemies tend to scale with you but stay slightly ahead of you instead of behind. This makes combat stay relevant all game.
People tend to fuck up their first SaGa game by grinding when they don't need to and making the combat too hard for themselves. Play smarter instead of trying to brute force things. It is a series that rewards knowing the systems and how to game them.
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>>89965
>a single screenshot
>y-you should apologize to OP
>>
>>89793
i dont play jrpg, so i genuinely want to know from you jrpg guy what has a good story, cus im scared if i pick up a "good" jrpg ill get BIG TITTY SCANTILY CLAD PARTY MEMBERS WHO CANT THINK FOR THEMSELVES and WAHHHH~ WE GOT INTO A PERVERTED SITUATION WITH THE PROTAGONIST OH NO~ shit, i want a game that is good but also not a massive grindfest like persona 5 at least in my opinion jrpgs might not be for me, i can accept that, im not one of those anons that shit on jrpgs so please recommend me something decent because aside from FF i have no idea where to start
>>
>>89941
>mature writing
>poop guy
>salvation rangers
>wrestling
I'm shitting you a little here. I love the game, but you have to admit there are large parts of it that are very childish.
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>>89982
>ill get BIG TITTY SCANTILY CLAD PARTY MEMBERS WHO CANT THINK FOR THEMSELVES and WAHHHH~
Oh, OP is actually a fag.
>>
>>89974
Not him, but that screenshot looks like it's some kind of "Luke, I'm your father" type reveal. I have a hard time believing that moment could be emotionally powerful with such terrible sounding dialogue.
>>
>>89576
based post
btfo
>>
>>89869
My favorite part of this game was being able to recruit who I wanted for my party. I ended up using some generic lizardman all thru the game. Everyone else got replaced for named people but him.
>>
>>89813
>EoE Shinji smoking a joint asking what the fuck is going on.jpg
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>>89995
Eh, compared to post-modern WRPs from 2010s onward its pretty good writing.
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>>89970
Are you really gonna argue that Evangelion falls in the same category as Bleach or Naruto? Sure it's aimed at the same audience but they are obviously completely different kinds of stories. When people say "shonen" they don't mean every single anime aimed at teenagers, they mean a very specific type of show.
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JRPGs can have good writings but weebs always talk about the obnoxious ones with adolescent writing.

Here are some good JRPG. Their stories is not stellar but it's conveyed through the gameplay and exploration which make them very powerful

Dragon quest V
All MOTHER games
Terranigma
SaGa Frontier
Live A Live
Chrono trigger (Only exception because of that specific part of the game which is foreshadowed since the beginning)
Alundra

Meanwhile people only ever talk about FF or Xeno """games""" which are basically glorified terribad anime that take 7 hours of cutscenes on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvbXiOvWFp0&t=8s
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>>89940
>>89995
>“父親?
>親父?
>お前、親父を知っているのか!?”
Sounds more natural.
>>
>>89994
not OP, if the only thing your games has is tits then i can just open up pornhub and get more value from something completely free, sexy characters are fine, its literal wannabe harem members who dont have personalities i wont tolerate, you useless waste of space
>>
>>89982
>persona 5
>grindfest
What the actual fuck? Are you that bad? It's one of the easiest JRPGs out there

Play Mother 3 (easy as fuck to play on a gameboy emulator) or Persona 2 Innocent Sin for the PSP (probably THE easiest game ever made, zero grinding required) or Devil Survivor
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>>90015
The moment Xenoblade 2 filtered you was the moment you lost the argument against him.
All the Xeno games have a lot of depth if you look but for someone like yourself who can only see the superficial, will not be able to convince a diehard JRPG hater otherwise.
>>
>>90024
>>89283
forgot to quote the OP
>>
>>89874
My point is that JRPGs are clearly targeted at a younger/less serious audience. A Japanese man who can write even half way decently wouldn’t feel compelled to putting any nuances into what amounts to a children’s toy. WRPGs had the advantage of having a table top being a genesis which created a culture of RPGs having an older audience who would appreciate a more mature narrative(or at least an attempt at one). Basically, it’s just a difference in culture; japs see rpgs as infinitely juvenile things and non japs don’t. It’s why more cutesy games are the norm in japan and their gritty stuff you find to have a bigger following outside of the country. Don’t look for mature well written plots in jrgs because they weren’t made for them.
>>89932
I didn’t say better did i you actual nigger. In fact, having sex scenes and f*ck bombs would lend itself to my point that west writing tries to be more adult. Faggot
>>
>>89992
Making silly jokes doesn't mean it's "childish". With that logic shit like The Last Of Us 2 or David Cage games have mature writing because they take themselves completely seriously all the time.
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>>89283
A JRPG western?
Say no more
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>>90031
>if the only thing your games has is tits
That's not the only thing the game has. He is saying if he opens it and finds sexy girls he will get upset.
Why are you defending someone you disagree with? Learn to read.
>>
>>90024
Why does Five have a hole in his robe right where his dick is?
>>
>>90039
>lot of depth
>naming your generic split-personality after Freudian concepts just because it makes it look "DEEP" even though Id/ego/superego has nothing to do with dissociation

Read a book, please.
>>
>>90045
Ah yes, the wild west, a period of history totally known for its epic mecha battles.
>>
>>90034
i didn't play it my gf did and i dont think i could get into unless i really pushed myself, to me it looked like tons of cutscenes and repetitive fights, the personas were cool tho
>>
>>90041
>My point is that JRPGs are clearly targeted at a younger/less serious audience
Name a single WRPG made in the last ten years that targets a "more serious audience" than Shin Megami Tensei IV. Then try one for Xenoblade 2 or Persona 5. You won't be able to.
>>
>>90024
Dragon Quest V is in my opinion the absolute best video game story. Not because it has the most lore and intricate writing or anything like that, but because it's a surprisingly deep and meaningful story that is mostly conveyed through gameplay and laser-focused around the mute main character.

It's a story designed to be emotional and meaningful ONLY to a person actually playing the game and experiencing it himself. It's masterful, but not many people "get it" even when playing so I don't recommend it.
>>
>>90059
Easy access?
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>>90066
>hasn't played the games
>tells others to read books
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>>90024
I love FF and Xeno games and think their stories are just as good, but those are all good choices to be honest. Again those generally have relatively simple, less wordy writing than OP's example. But like you said, that's not the only thing that goes into making a good game story.
>>
>>90072
Cowboys & Aliens was a documentary
>>
>>89283
>>90024
>>90078
This.

Play Dragon quest V OP.
The DS/Android remaster is also very good and even more comfortable to play (yeah, even on smartphone)
>>
>>90055
because this was me you fucking retard
>>89982
>>
>>90044
I'm not saying it's bad, Joyful has arguably more mature writing and suffers heavily for it. Apart from Larry, it's miserable.
>>
>>90074
>>
>>90099
>post retarded statement
>get called out
>calls others retards
Every fucking time.
>>
>>90078
>mute main character
>the absolute best video game story
Pick one.
>>
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>>89941
Yeah, I've played LISA and loved it. Definitely has better storytelling than most modern RPGs.
>>
>>90074
Are you unironically retarded or is this bait?
>>
>>90107
He said a more mature audience anon.
>>
>>89494
Look at that ass, goddamn
>>
>>89685
Among your 50 year olds D&D fanclub maybe gramps
>>
>>90078
The fact that chose to make V of all the DQ games an isekai movie is really jarring. It is the one game in the series where it feels like you are playing the MC's story instead of self inserting into them.
>>
>>90074
If anything, it would be easier to name a wrpg that was NOT intended for a more serious audience than SMT IV, a game that is basically anime incarnate.
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>>90124
I'll pick both
>>
>>90124
Yes, the best video *GAME* story, not the best low budget light-novel disguised as a "game"
>>
>>90131
>can't name one (1)
>i-is this bait
Take the loss like a man, son.
>>
>>90124
That's what I mean. Brainlets just don't get it, their tiny little brains cannot see how the story-telling is functioning and they dismiss it. The game is built around the fact that you, the player, are feeling like you are experiencing the events of the game. The entire storytelling is built around this fact, including the mute character. If the main character were not mute the game would fall apart.
>>
>>89869
I get ya, fellow SaGachad, but shouldn't they start with something more beginner-friendly like Romancing Saga 3 or Scarlet Grace? Just so they could have a feel for the system overall.
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>>90074
>Shin Megami Tensei IV
>serious
I can't tell if you're trolling or what.
>>
>>90161
Okay so you’re retarded. I’m glad I didn’t waste my time. I do invite you to research the subject more
>>
>>90151
But you seem to be unable to? Why can't you post a single game?
>tumblr
>more serious audience
No anon.
>>
>>90110
>mistakes me for OP
>i correct him
>RetArD
lol "called out" keep deflecting from the fact you only like jrpg for tits, not for gameplay, you massive faggot, and that fact you thought i was fucking op for wanting to play jrpgs that were more than just tits
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>>90091
Is this a joke because Xenogears is a literal book during its 2nd CD?
>>
>>90165
>The game is built around the fact that you, the player, are feeling like you are experiencing the events of the game.
Well I, as a player, can actually speak. Like you said, the protagonist cannot. So the story immediately falls apart, doesn't it?
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>>90172
God, you're one dumb nigger.
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>>90045
>recommending 30 hours of non-stop boob jokes to someone looking for good jrpg writing
>>
>>90179
It's really funny saying this to someone who has been playing WRPGs longer than you've been alive. I suppose I'm not use to you tumblr posters.
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>>90179
He has a point, it should be easy to name some, right?
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>>89283
What really sets WRPGs apart is not the writing, which is most of the time pretty crappy too and rarely goes beyond some ancient evil awaking to conquer the world, it's the interactive storytelling. In a WRPG quests often have multiple solutions and multiple outcomes, the narrative is branched, sometimes with multiple endings for the various branches, etc.

A game with JRPG writing, a party full of underage girls who compete for the main character's cock, but with WRPG game design, would be more interesting than a JRPG with "mature" WRPG-like writing.
>>
>>90193
I'm sorry you have autism anon
>>
>>90195
Well it is far better writing than most *modern* WRPGs.
>raciss bad
>womyn strung
>diversity is strength
>>
>>89820
>>90041
Pretty much this.
>>
>>89283
>Play wrpg
>It’s a tolkien ripoff or other generic low/high fantasy, which allows it to have a detailed world instantly but sacrifices new and exciting concepts.
>Play jrpg
>Everything is nearly always brand new and exciting, and feels like a world you’ve never seen anything like
Neither are inherently bad. But it’s clear that WRPGs are more for immersion into a setting that’s easy to follow instead of purely entertaining you.
>>
>>90218
The only one with autism is you. Text parsers were actually the norm in RPGs when Dragon Quest V came out, making its choice of a mute protagonist even weirder.
>>
>>90193
The writing functions in such a way that in-universe the main character does speak, but you imagine what he is saying and doing. The game leaves gaps where your own thoughts and feelings become part of the story, it's as if the characters and plots responds to what they think is going inside your head based on the events. To me this was a million times more engaging than listening to Geralt ramble to NPCs. But autistic people have no imagination I assume.
>>
>>90195
Filtered
>>
That's because most JRPGs have a target audience of children and teenage boys. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, lots of excellent stories are aimed at young people, but they are naturally gonna have a style of writing and presentation that's appealing to teenagers. They are never gonna have pages and pages of lore in-game nor complicated dialogue, because that kind of thing would bore most teens to tears. Again, they can and many do have good writing and their fair share of depth, but it's only normal that an adult would find them shallow and childish at first sight, specially if you look at the more mainstream ones like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest.
>>
>>90213
>In a WRPG quests often have multiple solutions and multiple outcomes
Time traveller, it may be best you return to the early 2000s, the modern era has changed remarkably. Now western RPGs have devolved divergent story telling options to:
A) Yes
B) No but Yes
C) Sarcastically Yes
D) Can you explain again? (Yes)
>>
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>>90045
>>90195
picked up
>>
>>90206
Nice cope dumb dumb.
>>90207
>he
Sure thing same fag. I could say Fallout 4 and I’d be correct because SMT is literally for teenagers
>>
>>90124
Nah they really go hand in hand
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>>89750
>Dragon Age 2 is pretty based
Have we truly reached that point where zoomers look back with nostalgia to DA2 of all games?
>>
>>90232
>>It’s a tolkien ripoff or other generic low/high fantasy, which allows it to have a detailed world instantly but sacrifices new and exciting concepts.
God I fucking wish, WRPGs today are far too PC and based off water down WoW/consumerfriendly bastardisations.
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>>90264
>

Also
>Fallout 4 isn't for teenagers
>>
>>90245
>if you don't think dq is the greatest video game story ever you must love witcher 3
Nice strawman. I never said anything about Geralt. Project much?

If I wanted to play pretend and use my imagination, I'd go play with my action figures. Why should I put up with a video game being so lazily designed they can't even have the main character speak like a normal person?
>>
>>89283
WRPGs were written by fantasy authors at one time. This was before they got so big in scale that a single person couldn't write them anymore and they became a confused mess.
>>
>people ITT are defending modern fallout and bioware
I have no idea how the standards have dropped this far.
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>>90260
I want to go back.
>>
The Japanese make their RPGs simple and easily digestible because they know their target audience mostly consists of children, teenagers and otaku who just want to play the same kind of stuff they liked when they were kids and aren't interested in complex story telling or anything that challenges their way of thinking.
WRPGs were mostly made by people who wanted to emulate table-top games and written by people who couldn't make it as actual authors. So the net result is something less involving than an actual table-top game and not as well written as actual worthwhile literature, but it doesn't matter because their target audience goes back to the neckbeards who played the aforementioned table-top games and read trashy fantasy novels and aren't that hard to please.

Minor outliers notwithstanding, this is the simple truth of the matter, though I imagine neither side will be willing to admit it.
>>
>>90260
oof :(
>>
>>89337
Final Fantasy Tactics is an Ogre Battle rip-off set during a vicious civil war. It has, like, 4 different conspiracies running all at the same time. The main character is your usual JRPG fag who is just chasing magic artifacts and doesn’t care about politics, but his best friend is heavily involved in the conspiracies and he gets almost as much screen time during cutscenes.
>>
>>90284
If you don't want to use your imagination just watch a movie dumbass. Games are games because you play, you play a role, it's an interactive medium. And the appeal of an interactive medium is that you add to the story yourself and change it as a result. A game giving you the space to imagine the gaps is exactly that.
>>
>>90260
Divinity, Pathfinder and the like all offer different solutions for quests, even completely unscripted ones done through emergent gameplay (like distracting an npc with one party member while another party member robs them)
>>
>>90293
>WRPGs were mostly made by people who wanted to emulate table-top games
>WERE
That is the key word here. Fallout 4/76 were clearly not intended to emulate a table-top game
>>
>>90168
No clue, I'm not the SaGachad that has an encyclopedic knowledge of the series. I've only played that one game but grew obsessed with it. It is the only actual jrpg I've ever played that felt like a western rpg in how it is designed.
>>
>>90260
I think you might be the time traveller, because what you describe is pretty much BioWare game design from that time when Mass Effect was a little bit too successful. BioWare is dead however and that kind of game design is dead too.
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>>90287
>WRPGs were written by fantasy authors at one time
Wasn't the last one Kingdoms of Amalur? Remember them throwing R. A. Salvatore's name all over the place
>>
>>90279
It has an 18+ rating :).
>>
>>90264
Tolkien wrote shitty stories for teenagers yet bugmen treat him as some kind of god.
>>
>>90316
Sure there are a few hardcore indie outliers, but the AAA mainstream WRPGs like Mass Effect Andromeda and Fallout 4 have not gone down that path.
>>
>>90311
>just watch a movie
DQV has no shortage of cutscenes and linear design that railroads the player. It just doesn't have the main character speak for some reason.

>it's an interactive medium
Which DQV doesn't really utilize in any meaningful way.
>>
>>90327
Oh you really need to play some more SaGa games then, the others are great too. SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa 3 are probably my favorites so far.
>>
The main thing to learn from this thread is that /vrpg/ is just /v/ but on topic.

What I mean by that is you're all morons.
>>
>>90240
>even weirder
Again, autism or literal middlebrow who needs to have everything spelled out for him

It's a video *game* son, you don't really need the protagonist to say "I AM VERY SAD" to feel the sadness
you also don't need to "choose" an answer since the game is based around sadness and the passage of time, being able to say "heh, I don't give a shit" would ruin what the story is trying to say
>>
>>90317
The OP and most posts in favour of WRPGs are citing the old ones that had actual effort put into them, obviously dwelling on modern shit isn't worth anyone's time.
>>
>>90345
Which is relevant how exactly? That's like saying no jrpgs exist outside of FF15 because they have a lower budget.
>>
>>89355
>>89300
Yeah, if you have the mental maturity of a 10 year old and the iq of a chimp
>>
>>90345
>Sure there are a few hardcore indie outliers
These are not a few outliers, they represent the genre nowadays. AAA RPGs are the outlier and BioWare is dead.
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>>90331
>18 isn't teenage
>>
>>89674
I’m not sure if it counts, but I played through the 3 This is the Police games and really enjoyed them.
>>
>>89754
meant for >>89681
>>
>>90293
>The Japanese make their RPGs simple and easily digestible because they know their target audience mostly consists of children, teenagers and otaku

>“One thing that does stand out: in Japan the target audience for Dragon Quest is vast. It ranges from primary school students to people in their 50s. Now, Akira Toriyama’s art style is cartoonish, and in Japan that doesn’t alienate anyone; it’s not seen as childish. But outside of Japan, I think there’s often a stigma attached to that kind of aesthetic. Now, when an adult tries the game, they will discover that the subject matter is actually quite mature. Nevertheless, players are still left with this disconnect between how the game looks and how it plays. That’s a tension that just doesn’t exist in Japan. What we’re seeing now is that the age of people who are playing is rising. Interest is also increasing. We’re trying to put a lot more effort into promoting overseas the spinoff titles we’ve been working on – Dragon Quest Builders and Dragon Quest Heroes – in order to soften up the ground for Dragon Quest XI.”

>>90347
>Which DQV doesn't really utilize in any meaningful way.
Every praise I have given DQV so far has been about precisely about how it utilizes interaction well. Like I said, I'm tired of arguing with brainlets like you who refuse to understand and stick to people who know like that other guy.
>>
>>90369
We're discussing the larger genres not outliers, it would be like discussing JRPGs and then pretend Etrian Odyssey is the normal standard of JRPGs when its clearly a niche subgenre.
>>
>>90370
There's more to good storytelling than having more words.
>>
>>90375
*-* but that would still make it more mature than SMT.
>>
On a similar note, What's the most detailed jrpg, gameplay wise? Not combat-wise, but one that has tons of little things to do, something that feels like an entire world instead of just a linear game.
>>
Why is it that the only modern WRPG I liked was Fallout New Vegas?
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>>89869
Last Remnant is the best SaGa game
>>
>>90392
You have yet to explain how DQ utilizes interaction. Does it offer emergent problem solving like other RPGs like this anon mentioned? >>90317
No, it doesn't.
Why are you lying?
>>
>>90352
I was interested in Scarlet Grace but never got around to actually buying it. I've bought 1 game in the last 5 years and it was DQ11.
If I wasn't on a 90s tier slavjank machine I'd look into emulating all of them. I really like the unconventional designs. It all sort of clicked at once for me in RS, I'd love to play more games where it feels foreign and obtuse then it all clicks, its a great feeling.
>>
>>90409
Because that was the last good AAA WRPG.
Also its a 2010 game, it's not modern.
>>
>>90409
Because you haven't played most of them?
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>>90375
>18+ means 18 only
sasuga baka
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>>90407
SMT is also M-rated actually
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>>89581
THIS

SO MUCH FUCKING THIS

FUCK PEOPLE WHO SAY GROWN ASS FUCKING MEN CANT SHOULDNT SPEND HUNDREDS OF HOURS WATCHING POWER RANGERS!

SURE, it may be simple BUT THE WAY CHARACTERS MOVE AROUND IS SO ENTERTAINING!!
>>
>>90395
>We're discussing the larger genres not outliers
Bethesda has released 1 rpg (Fallout 4) in the past decade. It will be many more years before their next rpg even comes out.
Larian, a single developer, will have released Divinity Original Sin 1, 2, and Baldur's Gate, 3 RPGs over the period of 2014-2020.

How is the latter an outlier? It's the former that's an outlier.
>>
>>90392
Sorry, feel free to replace "otaku" with "average Japanese adult" when referring to anything as mainstream and DW. The rest need not be changed.
t. lives in Japan and interacts with standard shakaijin on a daily basis. Also, I never said it was an issue of being childish, just uncomplicated and doesn't challenge preconceptions.
>>
>>90268
smd

I started with DAO and played the oldies - BG, IWD, PST and shitton more.

DA2 is a decent/good game, with actually good story.
>>
>>90443
I would have more respect for somebody watching Kamen Rider than somebody reading a shitty fantasy novel, yes.
>>
>>90453
>DA2 is a decent/good game, with actually good story.
DA2 is not a good RPG, there is no way around it. They took everything that was bad about Mass Effect and put it in DAO and the result was DA2.
>>
>>90409
New Vegas really isn't that great. It is just babby's first political simulator for most people. The ideas and viewpoints are something most idiots hadn't been exposed to yet. And it was a buggy unfinished mess of a game.
It isn't bad by any stretch but it really isn't near as good as people claim. It is the Inception of video games. Just luddite fodder but the best luddite fodder the luddite has ever played.
>>
>>90034
I found that the story structure and having to burn through calendar days to progress the plot felt really grindy. It’s probably more accurate to say the game has too much filler though.
>>
>>90413
Protip: The act of playing a game is already something interactive. It's you, the player, who is moving the main character to the next destination. Just because there is MORE interaction in these games doesn't mean the basic gameplay of DQ is not interactive. What the game does is that it uses the interaction that is already there to its fullest extent. You don't need to be able to choose dialogue or how to complete quests for something to be interactive. In any case, you're a fucking retard.
>>90452
It's the case with most long-running series. Most fans of SMT aren't teenagers, they're old people. One just needs to take a look at the online discussions or amazon reviews to instantly know what kind of people play these games and why.
>>
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>>90443
>games shouldn't be entertaining
>they need to be mature political story telling about elves
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>>90408
Metal Saga
Get yourself a metal detector and comb the wasteland for WWII tanks
Customise the shit out of said tanks
Tame a bus
Hunt for bounties
Acquire a waifu
>>
>>90486
But you're praising DQV for having the best story, and your argument is that's because its story is interactive. But that's not the case. Nobody was disputing that DQV is interactive, in the sense that you fight battles and kill enemies, just like you do in any other games.
So I ask again: why are you lying?
>>
>>90443
A game like Viewtiful Joe is surprisingly good even though it is a parody of henshin shows. Just because it is cartoony or based on something childish doesn't mean they can't do something interesting with it.
>>
>>90486
Not the guy you're talking to, but the game most definitely does 'not' use interaction to its fullest extent, because the next natural step is to make the narrative interactive - like in pen & paper RPGs. A game that is completely linear does not make full use of the medium's potential. It's like making a movie that consists of a black screen with written words on them describing the scenery, like in a book.
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>>90463
Some people do both
>>
>>90519
NTA but it's "interactive" in the sense you discover the story through exploration and not by reading 10 minutes of cutscenes.

Going back to your old town 10 years after and witnessing the toll of time *is* interaction. You're still playing the damn game.
>>
>>90443
I mean the presentation and staging of the scenes. That's important.
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>>90490
It's fine to be a little political as long as it is lowkey.
>>90519
I am saying that it's great because the story is laser-focused around the fact that there is someone behind the screen playing the game, not because it is the very most interactive story ever made. Fucking hell.
>>90533
Not necessarily, making the narrative too interactive can muddle there being a narrative at all. A more apt comparision would be a movie with a lot of special effects utilizes the medium better than a movie mostly focused around dialogue between characters, which could also work in a stage-play.
>>
>>90074
>Outlier means japs make more serious rpgs than childish ones
Anon... you’re not very good at arguing are you?
>>
>>90583
I would argue that an interactive narrative is what truly sets apart video games from books and movies. Any kind of linear storytelling only apes media that already exist.
>>
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>>90074
Guarantee you're the kind of lad who thinks P3 is dark and gritty, I mean they put guns to their heads that's fucking out there man
>>
>>90533
I'm genuinely convinced at this point that an interactive narrative in a game that goes for more than two or three hours is a huge mistake.
>>
>>90409
Because Japs liked it you goddamn dirty weeb.
>>
>>90486
>DQ’s plot is interactive because I need to walk between the story triggers
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
>>
>>90622
How so?
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>>90612
I think people go too far with that sometimes though. Like when they think all cutscenes are evil, and if you need a cutscene it has to be one of those things where you start walking really slowly while characters talk (so you're still sort of in control). I dislike that trend.
>>
>>90612
It's still nonsense because DQV's story doesn't work in anything but a video game, it's still fully around the fact that it's interactive. It's just as much apart from anything else in other mediums as choosing an ending is.
>>
>>90482
And yet it’s still better than every jrpg ever made
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>>90630
Well it always turns out bad.
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>>90074
>a "more serious audience" than Shin Megami Tensei IV. Then try one for Xenoblade 2 or Persona 5.

Imagine thinking some adolescent power-fantasy about killing gods and waifus is for a "serious audience". because they use esoteric concepts in a superficial way.
I hope you're 16 anon
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>>90638
No it isn't
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>>89750
>Dragon Age 2 is pretty based
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>>90482
It's not good because the political ideas are good it's good because it allows you to choose meaningfully between legitimate political ideas which is fun to play and experience which is what a video game is all about.
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>>90107
I miss the release threads
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>>90513
Seems pretty cool, thanks for the recommendation
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>>90655
Name five jrpgs better than new vegas
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>>90650
And yet you still can't name a more mature modern WRPG.
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>>90213
I don't think you're right. Give some game examples. BaK sure didn't have that.
>>
>>90482
Is hating on new Vegas the new way to look cool on 4chan?
>>
Why is maturity so important to people?
Can’t a rpg story just be entertaining instead
>>
>>90632
>Like when they think all cutscenes are evil
I'm not a big fan of them either since they tend to disconnect the player from their avatar. In a cutscene you can't have the player character do things because the player character might end up doing something the player disagrees with, which ultimately results in retarded looking cutscenes where the player character just stands around looking retarded.
Cutscenes where the player doesn't partake in are okay, but there should be a very good reason why the player is given that kind of information, e.g. as an intro to a game, like in Deus Ex, but otherwise the player shouldn't see things without him being physically present.

In general, I think when it comes to 'tight' storytelling in an RPG, Deus Ex is again a top notch example.
>>
>>90679
You could just name any five jrpgs that are actually complete and functional.
>>
>>90650
SMT isn't superficial. A staggering amount of research went into both the concepts within the story and demon designs. The book they released for 4 Apocalypse on mythology is honestly insane. The problems of the games are more that the storytelling is bad at getting any of it across.
>>
>>90679
Rance – Hikari Quest –
Rance II – Rebellious Maidens –
Rance III – Fall of Leazas –
Rance IV – Legacy of the Sect –
Rance 4.1 ~ Saving Pharmaceutical ~
>>
>>90649
How does it turn out bad? Do you have a specific example?
>>
>>90709
Grown men don’t find teletubies and power rangers entertaining.
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>>89283
This was pretty based until it cucked MC out of his personality
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>>90734
>but my elf games are super mature
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>>89283
>Lots of text = good storytelling
damn, the super smash brothers fanfic must be the epitomy of modern storytelling
>>
>>90619
Not that guy but I will give P3 some credit for its commitment to the death theme. I think it goes off the rails once death turns into a little boy who sits down at the dinner table and has a rap session with the party, but they get points for weaving death into so many spots in the social links and people’s character arcs. Even the in-game clock contributes to it, since your days are quite literally numbered. Gritty isn’t a word I would use to describe it, but it is heavy.
>>
>>90740
Fuck me
>>
>>90680
>whataboutism
I actually prefer JRPGs, but midwits who think they more than interactive anime are fucking cringe

RPGs as a whole have lost their glory after the early 00s
>>
>>90752
Grown men don’t find teletubies and power rangers entertaining
>>
>>90695
>BaK sure didn't have that.
How old is this game again?
>>
>>90638
It isn't but you are entitled to your own opinions.

>>90663
There is no meaningful choice as the game ends and shows you a slide of the outcome instead of letting you continue playing and witnessing the outcomes thru gameplay. Every alignment is just a sociology 101 course distilled into a single viewpoint.
I will admit that the bear and the bull shit at the end of the one DLC was good though. I did start out the game by wanting to help the wasteland but by the time I got to Ulysses he was right, I was doing it all for myself. He was wrong though, I didn't set off any bombs, his headcanon being forced on me was bullshit but his insane ramblings about the player itself were pretty good. Using the nail gun the whole time and then him telling me me using the nailgun was a path the dev chose and I didn't realize it was interesting. But it was pretty fart sniffer tier.
>>
>>90767
1993
>>
>>90765
It's not whataboutism, the post he was replying to specifically asked people to name some. I agree with you though, most JRPGs are basically interactive anime (nothing wrong with that).
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>>90765
>the Logos brap
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>>90766
>but my elf games are super mature
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>>90794
>nothing wrong with that
Hard agree. I still think the question is loaded because "more mature" implies xenoblade 2 is somehow mature in itself
>>
>>89283
>play wrpg
>it's a campaign advertisement for the democratic party
fify
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>>90815
LOTR is, yes.
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>>90791
So a singular almost 30 years old game is representative for a genre filled with Oblivions, Skyrims, Dragon Ages and Mass Effects?
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>>90831
Good point.
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>>90849
True, but most WRPGs aren't anywhere near LOTR tier. I like both WRPGs and JRP
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>>89750
It had a cute elf slave boi in it, how can anyone hate the game?
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>>90794
>interactive
I would say semi-interactive, since the characters and the plot is more often than not pre-written, with the player having very little input when it comes to the narrative. Interactivity comes mostly in the form of combat and there the decisions are also mostly tactical in nature.
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>>90893
Gs, I mostly just wanted an excuse to post orcs dabbing on elves.
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>>90869
>one short optional sidequest is representative of the whole
Go back to Tumblr.
>>
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>>90869
>japanese ""humour""
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>>90914
I haven't played the game yet, I've just seen that posted on /v/ constantly. I think it's cute and funny.
>>
>>90855
I thought Mass Effect was hated because your choices didn't matter?

Illusion of choice is that important to you? I don't think any of those games have much of what you claim they do. They play out much the same as any jrpg.
>>
>>90680
Why hasn't anyone named a more mature modern WRPG?
>>
>>90959
>>
>>90680
You’re just not getting it are you anon. Shin Tensei isnt that mature so most people think you’re trolling. For the sake of argument I’ll humor you: Divinity, fallout, Tyranny, Witcher, Fallout, Underrail, disco communism, etc. Are these good games? Unimportant. Are these games super mature and only played by 50 year old scholars? Not necessarily. Are they more mature than Shin tensei? Yes. Stop with the twitter reaction images too
>>
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>>90677
Hope you enjoy it mate
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>>90979
>modern Fallout
>when 76 had Rick and Morty as part of the marketing campaign
No anon. Stop posting.
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>>90979
>Are they more mature than Shin tensei? Yes.
They really aren't though.
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>>89283
>>play wrpg
>>it's a complex tapestry of political machinations vying against each other juxtaposed with the lives of innocents caught up in the struggle
>>
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>>90670
The more I look the more unsettling it gets
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Not gonna lie, I'm a philosophy/lit student and I think maturity is pretty overrated (I'm actually one of the better students as well).

When you're an adult you just don't feel like being lectured to and you don't necessarily want to be shown yet again the depravities of human society or whatever else. At one point what you seek above all is trying to relate to other people, and what art does above all, in my opinion, is crystallize human experiences, feelings and thoughts that might be very fleeting or hard to express in real life into something tangible that can allow other people to relive or relate to that experience. It allows you to feel like you are part of the human race, it reminds you that you are not alone in this world and other people think and feel like you, too. Art, fundamentally, is a kind of emotional food, and emotional food of that kind is much more valuable to your life than autistic circlejerking about this or that political faction and their views on how society should be run, or yet another complex scenario of warring factions where all sides have their good points and nobody is truly right. Those things might be well-written and true to life, sure, and you can enjoy them, but often they miss why people go to art in the first place.

What JRPGs do is that they absolutely NAIL that emotional part of art, where they manage to connect with people. People always talk about the Baron quest in the Witcher 3 because it is precisely such a moment that is relateable, well-presented and packs the emotional punch. These moments are generally uncommon in WRPGs and you don't see people talk to each other about what it was like to experience "that one moment" as much as in JRPG discussions. This is how the games manage to carve a place in people's hearts even though when people sit down and think about them they don't seem all that great, or like there is little going on. JRPGs try to reach people emotionally and artistically, not intellectually.
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>>91008
Just admit you’re trolling. Go ahead and prove how mature Shin tensei is then. You even said Xeno blades is mature so your iq is confirmed to be below freezing
>>
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>>90914
I don't know why people can't just embrass the fact XB2 is a good shonen rpg with fappable waifus
>N-No, I play it for the character developement and it has some good concepts
So does the senran kagura games on 3DS. It's still an anime game about big tiddy girls fighting.
People trying to buy a respectability for their weeb game are fucking weak
>>
>>90893
>but most WRPGs aren't anywhere near LOTR tier.
That’s because most lord of the rings fans aren’t actually true fans of Tolkien.

I mean how could you be when the vast majority of them blow off the silmarillion, his masterpiece, as nothing more than unnecessary lore. When it is in fact the main story and contains the true sadness and beauty of the world he created.
>>
>>90700
yes, NV is good and scratched a niche itch but its overrated as hell, so retards who dont play games will just say
>new vegas is the best!
without realizing many other games are better in in ways they cant concieve, because they dont play games
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>stories have to be '''''mature´´´´´´´ to be entertaining or well written
>"anime plots? that's for 15 year olds" t. 18 year old wrpgbabby
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>>91038
>trolling
No anon, he's telling the truth.
You are saying that Ninja and Rick and Morty are for mature audiences.
>>
>>89283
>I don't like FFXII because the protagonist challenges my perceptions and I don't like fun things happening
>>
>>89283
Wrpg fags and fans of Anglo culture in general will spam threads like this one on a daily basis for years, decades... Whereas jrpg fans just mind their own bussiness and couldn't care less about wrpgs.
Basically, we NEED segregation. Wrpg fags are way too closed minded and intolerant.
>>
>>91071
Shounen anime plots are which are 90% of JRPG plots
>>
>>91038
he cant, he's a faggot
>>
>>91036
Are you the same SMT poster as before?
Because it's actually a good post.

It's too bad JRPGs often separate gameplay with their "story"
Most of the time you need to slog through the gameplay to watch a 20minutes cutscenes where the party talk to each other. We need more stuff like this >>90024
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>>91046
>So does the senran kagura games on 3DS.
Underrated games, I would easily play a 3DS Senran Kagura for its plot than a modern made-for-Tumblr WRPG
>>
>>90855
What particular choices do you make in those games that have any impact? Does the narrative change after the choice? Is it completely self contained and no longer comes up?
>>
Can you really expect genreshit (genreshit most often meant for children as well) to have good prose? The whole point of a rpg is character interaction and world building. Your mind and the visuals do the work, so the lazy writer doesn't have to be the reincarnation of James Joyce.
>>
>>91076
You dumb ESL. My point was that they are MORE mature than SMT not that they are mature in general.
>>
>>91076
If you're judging things by their marketing then everything looks like it's for retards.
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>>91098
See >>91076
You are on the same team as Ninja and Rick and Morty.
Maybe you need to reconsider your life choices.
>>91115
>Ninja
>Rick and Morty
>more mature
No.
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>>89924
SaGa games don't have level scaling, that guy is totally clueless, SaGa games don't even have character levels in the first place so there's nothing they can use for scaling.
Battle Rank "scales" enemies according to the number of fights you initiate, or win according on the different entries, the rules change a bit, in most games that scaling results in getting new batches of enemies altogether, and you don't have the problems of TES where you get bandits with daedric armor either, even in the few games where BR scales things statistically, enemy equipment will still stay fixed, only their stats and ability level is scaled.

Also, writing wise the games are built around worldbuilding, the writing may be dry and concise, but it's always on point and the amount of variations and possible quest paths you can take ends up in pretty interesting worldbuilding where you always have some facets of the setting or characters hidden behind quest routes or MC scenarios which promote replaying the game and choosing different routes for the sake of curiousity, the enormous casts of recruitable characters with varied backgrounds and personalities only add to that.
Even choosing a different main character to see how they react and behave during events you've seen with another MC in a previous run is interesting, especially since they also tend to have their own gimmicks and quest variations for a lot of content, a quest you played through with a certain MC might be very different for another MC, a character you met with a certain MC will also behave differently when it comes to another MC, they might hate them and not join their party altogether, you might even kill them due to different circumstances, or find out something new about them or other things
This is what good writing in RPGs is, not flowery speeches about philosophy 101 or some tired, poor man's fantasy epic, it's about interesting stories and worlds that are fun to explore and interact with.
>>
I love both, but this thread has been entertaining arguing for the sake of it. I'm sure these threads will appear regularly on /vrpg/.
>>91036
Good post.
>>
>>90952
Did you reply to the wrong post? I named Mass Effect as an example of "an ancient evil awakens"-type of writing.

I would never defend the game. I think it's rather crappy.
>>
>>91036
>I'm a philosophy/lit student
No one gives a shit
>>
>>91123
Show me a single piece of marketing material for SMTIV that has Rick and Morty in it.
You can't. Modern WRPGs are literally aimed at the fortnite audience.
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>>91107
My nigga, same.
It's actually pretty nice for what it is. The series has become exactly what people dismissed it to be since it came onto the Playstation and I will never not be mad.
(except the Burst remake since it's a remake, of course)
>>
>>91136
I know that obviously, I meant the term level loosely. Power scaling would've been more appropriate I guess.
>>
>>89283
I don't get it? Both are just as stupidly written, but in their own ways.
>>
>>91155
You're an idiot.
>>
>>90914
Xenoblade 2 is a tapestry of cringey dime a dozen fanservice anime cliches. There’s no sense pretending that it isn’t. If you want to control the narrative surrounding the game the best you’d be better served owning that and insisting there’s nothing wrong with that webm.
>>
>>91132
Okay so not only did you show you can’t prove SMT’s maturity your only argument was picking the one game out of several and bringing up its zoomed marketing? This still doesn’t show how a game, which I’m a fan of, is not just an interactive shounen plot
>>
>>91136
>This is what good writing in RPGs is, not flowery speeches about philosophy 101 or some tired, poor man's fantasy epic, it's about interesting stories and worlds that are fun to explore and interact with.
/thread

Which is why Chrono Cross is a great JRPG even though the story is complete bullshit. It's a threat to explore and play
>>
>>91027
They always start with that, but it always get thrown out of the Window pretty quickly unless its a Obsidian game.
Most of them suffer all the really bad problems that Dragon Age has: There might be some nuance in the plot, but its fundamentally a game about visiting all the factions and then slaying a Dragon.
>>
>>91076
>can't even nitpick the other games anon posted, latches on to the idea that 76 alone proves all wrpg are immature
lol what a bad troll
>>
>>91173
The argument is about target audiences.
I provided evidence that WRPGs are aimed at Fortnite Kids/Kids who watch Rick and Morty.
No lower bar has been established for SMTIV yet.
>>
>>91038
Maturity is a fabricated concept. You want to set some standard based on wrpgs for jrpgs to live up to with that word as your crutch. You can't ever prove a jrpg is mature because it would have to be a wrpg, which it is not.
If I am wrong clearly define what you mean by maturity without using analogies and explain how all those games you listed fit the definition and how another game possibly could.
This discussion can't go anywhere without maturity being defined.
>>
>>91175
>Okay so not only did you show you can’t prove SMT’s maturity
I proved it is targeted to an audience above WRPGs. No marketing for SMTIV utilises Fortnite streamers/cartoon shows. You might be confusing me for someone else you are arguing with.
>>
>>91175
cus he thinks he >le epic troll
except in order to be a masterbaiter you need to make your targets seethe, not wonder how you can be so retarded like most anons trolling seem to do
>>
>>91198
>I provided evidence that WRPGs are aimed at Fortnite Kids/Kids who watch Rick and Morty.
Yeah, because the average fortnight kid plays classic and newly made crpgs
>>
>>91196
>Fallout is a mature game for mature audiences
>actually aimed at fortnite viewers
No, not all WRPGs are immature but some are. There is no evidence that SMTIV has a lower audience than FO76's target audience, in fact the opposite has been established.
>>
>>89283
Wrpg games have ATROCIOUS writing. Jrpg plots are far more creative and interesting.
Wrpgs are always brutally uncreative and dull. Because they want to appeal to everyone instead of working with different demographics, their games always end up being very homogeneous and derivative. Their already limited creative options fall down even further because of the fact that they are terrified of being perceived as "weird" and "cringe". And they only care about normies and sjws...
Lack of creativity and thin paper shitty plots aside (you spend most of your time doing poorly writen sidequests in a world that feels ironically static) their main problem is probably the lack of good characters. Wrpg developers (Anglos in general) couldn't make an interesting and well developed character even if their lives depended on it.
>>
>>91108
See >>91141.

My post was not an attempt to name these games as positive examples. They are negative examples in terms of writing.
>>
>>91218
>Maturity is a fabricated concept
THIS JUST SO MUCH THIS

YOU CANT ACTUALLY PROVE MY LITTLE PONY AND BARNEY ISNT MATURE!
>>
>>91198
>Anime shounen game’s target audience isn’t also children
Anon, even if this was the case, the guy you’re arguing with’s original point was about Japanese culture in general. One mature jrp doesn’t prove jrps are more maturely written.
>>
>>91247
>plays classic
>discussing MODERN WRPGS
I AGREE THAT OLD WRPGS ARE GOOD
NEW WRPGS ARE NOT
STOP AGREEING WITH ME AND FUCKING READ.
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>>91256
>Jrpg plots are far more creative and interesting.
https://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
>>
>>91256
Why do wrpg haters just make shit up?
>>
>>91255
lmao you suck at this
>>
>>91291
Nice, I remember this. To be fair, you could make a similar list for WRPGs.
>>
>>91291
>most of those cliches in the image apply to WRPGs as well
Oh no no no
>>
>>91273
What's a good example? I don't remember much in the Infinity Engine games? The Outer Worlds didn't have much.
>>
>>91295
becuase they're weebs and will ignore literal garbage and excessively overused tropes for tits
>>
>>91276
What's mature about Anglo culture?
I haven't seen a Hollywood movie that wasn't a worthless piece of trash in, literally, decades, their cartoon are atrocious and very derivative, their games are worthless Hollywoodesque trash, they only care about broad audiences, their comics are propaganda filled turds...
Anglo culture is pretty much a trash factory.
>>
>>91296
I hope he’s trolling because if not he’s fatally retarded and unlike trolls who get bored him being a retard means we might get a permanent shitter who make brain dead arguments every thread
>>
>>91332
all of 'em

you spec into swords -- find a sweet staff -- CONSEQUENCES!
>>
>>91331
No they don't. Characters aren't teenagers, for once
>>
>>91370
probably just a troll unfortunately, honestly masterbaiting is a dead art form on this site
>>
>>91360
What does this have to do with what I said? Is being a third worlder really this unpleasant that you must lash out at me for it?
>>
It should be no surprise to my more-informed viewers that the topic of my discussions would eventually fall to the well-established artform of eroge (known to laymen as "hentai vidcons", though this is a false moniker as the vidcons deal with far more than mere hentai). Much-beloved in the East, these games are sadly, and one might even say expectedly, decried in the West as bastions of perversion and pedophilia for portraying extremely young girls in erotic situations. A person who looks at pictures of fictional little girls isn't necessarily sexually attracted to them. What if (s)he finds them cute? Despite the obvious flaws in the anti-eroge constituency, they continue to claim that eroge are sad, cartoon versions of sex for manchildren that promote rape, pedophilia, and abuse towards women. The logic used seems quite silly, because then people who enjoy killing or raping in games would be classified as murderers/rapists in real life. Come on. It's a fantasy, it's inside your head. Get educated. I recommend Kana: Little Sister, Rape Academy 2, or Crescendo to start with.
>>
>>91296
>prove WRPGs are aimed for literal fortnite kids
>y-you suck at this
Ok son.
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>>89283
Play the chad's FF
Squall specifically is one of the most well written characters in the genre
>>
>>91393
Yeah. I hope this doesn’t dissuade him. I feel a little bad just by how pathetically bad at it he is. He’s 100% an esl so this probably isn’t easy for him
>>
>>91411
checked, based anon putting fortnite kids in their place
>>
>>91358
No one uses more overused tropes and derivative plots than Aglos. That's what happens when you only care about normies. You end up making the same repetitive trash without any artistic value over and over and over...
>>
>>91411
lol keep it up bud, you're really showing me
>>
>>91332
Why would I come up with a good example? My original point was that WRPGs rarely excel in the writing department either.
>>
>>91415
This is bait
>>
>>91440
Check the digits. Dubs have spoken.
WRPGs are for Fortnite kiddies.
So sayeth kek
>>
>>91411
Just give anon. Samefagging is unbecoming
>>91434
>normies
Great you’re a Redditor as well as an ESL
>>
>>91408
Ahhh, console video games (or vidcons as I call them), the ultimate medium of expression, able to convey any emotion ranging from hatred to love, loyalty to fear, all in front of our eyes. Ah, and with lovingly crafted art, music, and the ability to control the action, vidcons are the ultimate combination of the high arts. While I tend to play the stoic, I will be the first to admit that vidcons have driven me to cry, to scream and shout, to feel actual hate; such is the power of this force beyond our wildest reckoning. And here I am, before you, to tempt your tongues with the taint of such a tantalizing topic. And the Japanese, the true geniuses behind the world of video games. Pah, I throw my scorn upon such incompetents of the West who would mock the true art of the Japanese with 'games' such as Baldur's Gate and Madden. Perhaps it is that the West is not as intelligent as the East, but this is a matter for another day. Japan has given us such masterpieces as the Final Fantasy series, Star Ocean, Wild Arms, and of course, Arc the Lad. Yes, some of the finest vidcons in the world were created by Japanese. I come to you today to ask you in all earnesty, what is your favorite vidcon? I will reveal mine after the grand debate has illustriously begun, but not before the first poster falls victim to my plot of discussion.
>>
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>>91415
>>
>>89982
>cus im scared if i pick up a "good" jrpg ill get BIG TITTY SCANTILY CLAD PARTY MEMBERS WHO CANT THINK FOR THEMSELVES
I know this was unintentional, but this is pretty much the modern mainstream RPG fan in so many words and why every woman has to look like an ogre or Frumpzilla Prime now in modern games.
>>
>>90952
You can choose sides in the Civil War in Skyrim. If you steal shit you might get assassins sent after you. I dunno
>>
>>91462
>Samefagging is unbecoming
>/vrpg/ is one person meme
>>
>>89941
LISA is great. I'd say the style of the writing and storytelling is closer to JRPGs though than your average WRPG.
>>
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>>91453
Whatever
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>>91455
fuck you got me, well played sir same time tomorrow?
>>
>>91477
There are actual WRPG fans demanding that Baldur's Gate 3 have small/no boobs and ugly women
Tumblr is mentally ill.
>>
>>91499
>tfw no gf
>>
>>91488
Good luck anon, I hope it works out better for you next time once you become more accustomed to the site and the language!
>>
>>91523
This is the fourth time tumblr has been mentioned ITT, what is going on?
>>
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>>91499
>>91533
>>
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>>91523
How sad
>>
>>89283
>Play Planescape Torment.
>Not a single interesting or well developed character (Fall from grace could have been a decent character, but she barely has anything interesting to say after joining you).
>You spend most of your time doing boring sidequests and walking around an static town.
>Shitty main plot is boring, main character is just a generic amnesiac inmortal anti hero.
>Presention is so bland and dull that even when something important happens you barely care about (long dialogs about characters doing things... while you see them standing around like statues)
>Forgettable music
>Shitty combat system.
Overall, that games was worthless trash without any artistic value. And it is supossed to be the most soulful wrpg...
>>
>>91360
>Hollywood
>Anglo

Wat. Hollywood and all American media is 100% Jewish
>>
>>91591
ok brainlet
>>
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>>91591
>not a single interesting character
I know this is bait, but I'm taking it anyway.
>>
>>91559
There's one person who's stuck in 2015
>>
>>91591
most interesting part is piecing together just what kind of cunt you were in previous lives
wasn't feeling the game otherwise
>>
>>91642
>2015 was two years ago
Where does the time go?
>>
>>91591
Planescape is great and I disagree with almost all of this, but
>Presention is so bland and dull that even when something important happens you barely care about (long dialogs about characters doing things... while you see them standing around like statues)
is a good point. The staging of scenes in WRPGs is generally weaker.
>>
>>91658
>two years ago
a-anon im sorry but...
you were in a coma
>>
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>>91467
squall is all of us
>>
>>91686
The Oxford kind? Oh god
>>
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>>89920
>>90026
Damn, they really just translated that raw without trying to rearrange it in a palatable way in English huh?
I'm glad I've been taking Japanese lessons, I understand now why so many older JRPG's have instances of awkward dialogue.
>>
>>89283
>Are there any jrpgs that tell their stories in a more western way?
Fromsoftware games
>>
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>>91696
>>
>>89494
>that thong
C-CUTE!
>>
>>91726
>Fromsoftware games
How exactly do they tell their story in a western way? Storytelling in Souls games is mostly implicit and hardly even matters because you can completely ignore the plot and just kill things.
>>
>>91724
It makes some sense when you read about the shitty and rushed conditions translators often had to work under back in the day. I remember reading about how FFVIII translators had to use a gameshark to help view the text because they never got a copy of the text files.
>>
>>91187
>unless its a Obsidian game.
>There might be some nuance in the plot, but its fundamentally a game about visiting all the factions and then slaying a Dragon.
Anon you literally just described New Vegas.
>>
>>91523
I mean yeah they exist, but there's also a big group of them trying to poz JRPGs and japanese media in general too, it's not a WRPG exclusive thing. I think we should both stop fighting each other and band together to stop these cunts from ruining shit.
>>
>>91856
New Vegas keeps far more of the components. Most WRPGs past the 90s have the first act dedicated to politics/revenge, and then ignore it afterwards.
>>
>>91787
So its good :^)
>>
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>>90009
Swear I saved that pic but I can't find it for the life of me
Does anyone else have it?
>>
This topic is pretty boring, but I wish RPG games had the conciseness of writing, the FUCKING MUSIC and the brightness of your average JRPG but the combat of a WRPG
>>
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>>91950
No, but I wish I did.
>>
>>92008
>but the combat of a WRPG
that's not a good thing
>>
>>92074
It varies a ton, so it's hard to say if it's good or bad.
>>
>>89283
Left isn’t good writing, it’s just generic fantasy crap without any shred of art within it. You have read a similar sentence a billion times.

Right is just a pathetic, you picked out one specific line of dialogue at it’s worse, wow you really showed the overall quality of the game’s writing.
>>
>>89537
every anti-jrpger sounds the exact same, it's so sad
>>
>>92074
i think he means non repetitive/grindy
>>
>>89750
So this is the power of WRPGfags....
>>
>>89329
Being based on fantasy novels isn’t a good thing, especially since fantasy books are the lowest of the fucking low beside light-novels, housewife erotica, fan-fics, YA etc.
>>
>>92258
>literally proves my point about insecure you are
anon ffs, instead of crying post jrpgs to show their not all interactive anime
>>
>>89568
OPs image was retarded if he wanted a civil discussion, you are correct, but honestly it should just be ignored and mature jrpgs should be dumped instead
>>
>>92307
nah
>>
>>89283
when will these blatant fanboy threads be banned?
>>
>>92307
Why are you talking about yourself? At least try harder when samefagging.
>>
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i like both
>>
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>>92430
me too
>>
>>92307
An anon already posted a good list >>90024
>>
>>92358
based
>>92382
who am i same fagging you tard?
you are literally incapable of posting any examples despite there being multiple examples being posted throughout the thread, you couldn't answer OPs question and just came here to get triggered, you sad faggot
>>
>>92460
It's a list of great games, but a lot of those fit the description of "interactive anime."
>>
>>92460
thanks anon, although im hoping we can get even more before the thread dies
>>
>>92506
>these jrpgs look japanese
no shit
>>
>>92525
Not that I'm complaining about it, it's just the post said
>anon ffs, instead of crying post jrpgs to show their not all interactive anime
>>
Yonder speech on the lefte mayhap be hefty in words ye, though its volume betrays its content which is naught more than the breadth of an asse's recutum haire cast into a vast barrel of imaginary glorie.
>>
>>92365
these threads will either make a majority of /vrpg/ bait culture or die out depending on how others react/posting
>>
>>92506
Maybe Chrono trigger, DQ and Live a Live (one chapter is a literal parody of anime) but otherwise it's fair game.
I wish we had an anime like terranigma (maybe Mushishi comes close, given the themes)
>>
>>89769
only good post itt
>>
>>92539
>all interactive anime
Why is this a bad thing? It's as of OP saw two anime and decided anime was bad.
>>
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>>92561
Yeah, one of the cool things about Live-a-Live was they had different manga artists doing designs for each story.
>>92582
It's not a bad thing at all.
>>
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>all that filler
>>
>>92561
Alundra feels pretty anime to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwDgRqEkJ8
>>
>>92561
I still need to finish Terranigma, seems really cool from the little I played.
>>
>>89283
i dont know why westfags keep acting like replacing every word in a paragraph with the help of a thesaurus is high quality writing, are you 12 or something?

what is the problem with jrpgs being so anime? a lot of anime is easy to digest with your brain of and can have deeper themes if you look deeper, same with jrpgs
banter and small talk between characters is real comfy too, something wrpgs never have, its always 100% about the plot at hand and nothing else over there
>>
>>92710
I agree with most of what you said, but
>banter and small talk between characters is real comfy too, something wrpgs never have
There's plenty of wrpgs with banter between characters. Baldur's Gate 2 has great banter for example.
>>
>>90284
He didn't even say you loved Witcher 3, he was using it as an example as to what the majority of fucking "gamers" consider as good writing. Jesus christ you really are fucking autistic.
>>
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>>89283
>Final Faggotry
found your problem op
>>
>>92710
>banter and small talk between characters is real comfy too, something wrpgs never have
? Pretty sure wrpgs were the first to do party banter, long before it became a thing in jrpgs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8s7iveWvBs
>>
>>92772
Which DBZ episode is this?
>>
>>92710
>basic English
>thesaurus
Jrpg fans are really that retarded?
>>
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>>91591
planescape is proof of how low the standards truly are for wrp"g"s.
>>
>>92817
The one with stellar animation and music
>>
>>91136
Retard, plenty of rpgs don't have levels. Doesn't mean you still can't have level scaling. As you yourself explain, battle rank basically does the same thing.
>>
>>92008
>but I wish RPG games had the conciseness of writing, the FUCKING MUSIC and the brightness of your average JRPG
Lmao Jesus Christ weebs are the least intelligent most tasteless people on the internet
>>
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>>92008
>conciseness of writing
>jrpg
What did he mean by this?
>>
>>89283
play ivalice games (final fantasy tactics, vagrant story and a few others)
>>
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>>89469
>To be fair, the mc was supposed to be Basch, the veteran knight, but was changed since square thought Vaan would relate to players more.
Kind of proves the point of the OP, doesn't it? I mean, FFXII was going to have an adult main character, but executives stepped in and made him a teenager. Because just the mere idea of having an adult main character is considered controversial for a jrpg.
>>
>>90059
Abel’s been naughty
>>
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>>93042
>Because just the mere idea of having an adult main character is considered controversial for a jrpg.
Excuse me?
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>>93042
>Because just the mere idea of having an adult main character is considered controversial for a jrpg.
not really.
>>
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>>93125
Cloud is 21, still young. Even Cid is only 32.
>>
>>93125
>cryogenically frozen when he was 17
>"adult"
>>
>>93125
>21 years old
the absolute limit lmao
>>
>>93145
>experienced general at the age of 20
Great argument.

Retard.
>>
and there's the mental gymnastics on cue
>>
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>>93087
WORDSWORDSWORDSWORDSWORDSWORDSWORDSWORDS
>>
>>93199
>mental gymnastics
When people ask for adult main characters, they're generally asking for characters with actual life experience. Not teenagers who were cryogenically frozen, and then escape 4 years later, making them technically 21. That's the laziest shittiest way of implementing an 'adult' protagonist.
>>
>>89283
Why do WRPG fanboys always pretend that JRPG and WRPG are the same genre?

JRPGs are completely different fundamentally, and both genres have their fans.
>>
>>93125
He looks like a fucking babyfaced 16 year old. Not even entirely opaque yet.
>>
>>93226
>a few paragraphs in wrpgs BAD
>entire books worth of reading in jrpgs GOOD
>>
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>>93238
That's debatable. I've never liked the terms WRPG and JRPG much, because they refer to origin and not how the game plays. It made a bit more sense back in the day when people would say console RPG or computer RPG.
>>
>>93226
wat are you aiming at
>>
>>92740
>>92786
this is the norm in jrpgs tho, i dont need even specific examples
westfag quip comedy is not the banter im talking about, im talking about full conversations
i could point at the best ones for this like tales of for example

>>92834
>say in 3 paragraphs what you could say in one line
>good writing
good joke m8, anyone can pad out dialogue like that
>>
>>93296
>this is the norm in jrpgs tho
Not really. FF7-9 came out around the same time as Planescape, and don't even have voice acting, much less party banter. FFX and FFXII don't have party banter either.
>>
>>93226
Is your point that JRPG fans don't like good writing and they're just autists who want to see numbers increase in their spreadsheet and who want to obtain information from writing without consideration for how the writing makes a person feel things
>>
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>>91696
>>91467
We deserve a zoomer retranslation of FFVIII, someday,
>I'm not THAT basic.
>>
>>93296
So why do you defend jrpgs which have far more bloated writing? Like Persona 4, which starts with a 3 hour intro cutscene before you're allowed to even play the game for real?
>>
>>93344
Perhaps there are other ways to make people feel things in a video game besides words.
>>
>>93233
>characters with actual life experience
most wrpg main characters don't have that either when they're a blank slate with a past you have to make up yourself
>>
>>93268
>a short story padded out with filler words until its multiple books worth of text in wrpgs GOOD
kek
>>
>>93268
https://gamicus.gamepedia.com/List_of_longest_video_game_scripts
Rance 10 has the longest script out of any work that was ever written by mankind
how do you feel about that?
>>
>>93270
King's Field is an action-RPG.
>>
>>93379
Proud to be human.
>>
>>93372
Which wrpgs? Stuff like Fallout and Arcanum have almost no focus on the story. They're all about exploring and doing side quests.

Wrpgs where story is a focus do have adult main characters with a long history, such as Planescape: Torment and Kotor 2.
>>
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>>89283
>Bloody his nose
HAHAHAHAHA

Ah yes, clearly it isn't juvenile to write in an awkward attempt at archaic speak. You gonna wear some fucking elf ears and a tunic while you site at your fucking computer, you turbo nerd?

No drip, no buy
>>
>>93233
Being a hardened man with a lot of life experience by the age of 20 is appropiate for a world of conflict that jrpgs usually take place in. This even applies to the real world, back when most people couldn't afford to life off their parents past 13 and had to start supporting the house themselves. Even then these stories make it a point that young people are young and old people are wise.
>>
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>citan is 29
>>
>>93355
>>93344
if you call conversations that help me know the characters better "filler bloated writing", and word padded writing like OP to be good writing, no wonder wrpg writing is shit then

despite what your teachers led you to believe in high school, padding out your writing like you are padding out a essay is not good writing
>>
>>93457
>hardened man
Cloud is an effeminate boy with fabulous hair. He has no scars or anything that would indicate a hardened life. He also has the physique of a 14-year old girl, again making me question what 'hardened life' he was supposed to lead.

Jrpg fans are fucking delusional.

Also, FF7's world has more advanced technology than our own, so why the fuck would life expectancy be lower?
>>
>>89283
You're not getting a serious answer because generally speaking, jrpg plots are retarded. When they're not retarded, they're usually just kinda simple- not always in a bad way, but not what you're looking for. You're not gonna be finding any planescape torments.
That being said, a few jrpg plots stood out to me as better than average:
Final Fantasy Tactics
Terranigma
Live a Live
>>
>muh politics
yawn
>>
>>90400
There's more to good storytelling than repeating the same word 10 times.
>>
>>93535
>so why the fuck would life expectancy be lower?
There's a lot more monsters I guess
>>
>>93514
You were the one who said wrpg writing is bloated and filled with filler. Yet when jrpgs have far more bloated writing and far more filler, it's somehow not just okay, but even an example of good writing?

Explain to me how Persona 4's 3 hour intro is not filler then. Please do.
>>
>>93545
Repeating the same word works in the context of the scene.
>>
>>93537
Based post
>>
>>91174
Xenoblade 2 has one of the most thin-skinned fanbases of any videogame. I wonder if they're like this because fans of Xeno 1 have been making fun of them for years now.
>>
>>93545
That's not what James Joyce would say.

Anyway, the dialogue is taken out of context--in context it fits Kefka's frustration and insanity perfectly, and if it seems juvenile, well, Kefka's juvenile. So hey, mission accomplished. I'd rather have that then whatever overwrought shit was in the WRPG example lmao.
>>
>>93537
OP here, thanks for these recommendations.
>>
>>93567
It only makes the villain looks like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
>>
>>93344
Is your point that WRPG fans don't like good writing and they're just autists who want to see wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords and who want to obtain little information from a lot of wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords without consideration for how the writing makes the game and characters appear tedious and pretentious as fuck?
>>
>>92907
>As you yourself explain, battle rank basically does the same thing.
This is a website for 18+
>>
>>93665
Looks can be deceiving my friend. After all, it is Sunday morning, and people still give more of a fuck about that villain then whatever WRPG villain is out there.
>>
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>>89283
>here's your well-written character, bro
>>
>>93625
>overwrought
FF6's writing is far more bloated, and has far more forced cutscenes and walls of text you have to endure than Betrayal at Krondor.
Maybe play the games you're making false statements about?
>>
>>93731
Maybe you haven't played FF6 in a while, the cutscenes are generally pretty quick and there's not really any walls of text.
>>
>>93731
Nah those games suck
>>
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>>93665
How does it feel that even a saturday morning cartoon villain is far more memorable than anything the west has produced so far?
>>
>>93535
>again making me question what 'hardened life' he was supposed to lead.
maybe if you play the game you will see how he is an empty shell of a man literally larping as a more successful soldier because his squad got murdered

but prob that is too much effort for you, it seems the basic bitch teaching of "dont judge a book for its cover" that is everywhere in west media went over your head completely

>>93560
>Explain to me how Persona 4's 3 hour intro is not filler then. Please do.
because it actually moves the story? sets the mood? even the tarot stuff ends up relevant for game mechanics later, ever heard of show dont tell?
if you are in such a hurry to speedrun games just play shorter games
how do you expect me to explain something so obvious?
>>
>>93625
Yeah, it's a good scene. There's a little detail missing in the English version. In the Japanese version, he starts repeating only the first part of the word (ちくしょう to ちく) to emphasize his freaking out.
https://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-vi/part-11/
>>
>>93829
To be fair, Persona 4's intro does drag on a bit too much, mostly because you don't have much control during it.
>>
>>93917
it hurts when playing it again, for a first time playthrough its fine if you know what you are getting into, its a persona game
>>
>>93999
Apparently you can skip scenes in Golden, which would help a bunch.
>>
>>93760
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcRqSvtblMs

More than 4 and a half hour of cutscenes. That's positively insane by snes standards. Remember, this was before movie games were really a thing.
>>
>>93829
>because it actually moves the story? sets the mood? even the tarot stuff ends up relevant for game mechanics later, ever heard of show dont tell?
Then why are you criticizing wrpgs for using a fraction of that time to tell their stories?
>>
>>94039
Throughout the course of a 35-40 hour minimum game. Also, compare it to modern JRPGs, with much longer (and voice acted, making them even longer) scenes.
>>
>>93829
>an empty shell of a man
Yet in the flashback we see him defeating Sephiroth with ease and rescuing Tifa. He's already an incredible hero as a teenager. So he assumed Zack's personality not because he had such a hard life, but because he's weirdly insecure.
That's your idea of a 'hardened life'? Seriously?
>>
>>93829
90% of the writing in Persona 4 is repetition of things that have been previously mentioned. The smallest clue about the murders or the tiniest new detail about the Midnight Channel is discovered? Get ready to hear characters repeat that discovery hundreds of times over the course of the next few hours. Not actually discuss it or speculate about it and maybe develop the plot, mind you, just repeat it. Over and over again.
Here is a good example of how needlessly bloated the writing is: the discovery of a dead body sends the town into commotion. So do you find this dead body and get pulled into the plot that way? Nope, the dead body has already been removed from the scene of the crime once you get there. Instead, you get to hear other people talk at length about the dead body they saw and how frightening it was and only later do you get pulled into the plot in a much more contrived manner. I just can't understand the thought process of the writers here. Why did they think it was a good idea to present the story in the most boring and uneventful manner possible?

That 3 hour intro could have been trimmed to half an hour and you'd lose nothing of consequence.
>>
>>94149
It includes optional scenes too.
>>
>>93125
Cloud is supposed to be a fraud, a vulnerable boy that believes himself to be a soldier due to severe mental trauma and genetic experiments. The first half of the story is finding out how broken his self image was and him regaining his identity. He is literally written to be emotionally resonant with kids that pretend that they are older. For fucks sakes his mental state made him unable to understand that Aeris wanted his dick desparately.
>>
>>94072
because "telling their story" quite literally is just describing events and padding that text with lots of words

cant skip on mood setting scenes or character conversations without missing out on a lot
the fact you fags do skip on this is probably why you believe jrpgs are shallow

but you can boil down most wrpg dialogue to trim out more than half of it as unneeded text and lose nothing, as proven by >>93226 >>92655
>>
>>94039
>including the entire credits sequence
There's modern games with hour long credits alone.
>>
>>94152
wasnt that a fake flashback because he was schizoing out deluding himself?
>>
>>94283
No, he's talking about the real one later on.
>>
>>94240
>because "telling their story" quite literally is just describing events and padding that text with lots of words
But that's not even remotely the case. As mentioned, Persona 4 has a 3 hour intro cutscene. No wrpg even comes remotely close to that. Most wrpgs have an intro of a few minutes and then immediately let you play the game. Wrpgs do in minutes what jrpgs take hours to do.
SO why do you keep lying?
And why do you ignore posts like >>94182
>>
>>94182
Yeah, Persona 4 is great but it's not exactly concise with storytelling.
>>
>>89283
>Right
influences:
Nietzsche
Paradise Lost
Arthur Schopenhauer
>left
Influences:
Some crappy fantasy series

Wow, truly amazing
>>
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>>94572
>this is what weebs actually believe
>>
>>94679
Go back to reading your airport ‘tour de force’ trash



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