So, I started playing some DCs lately, but what gets me is not only that they require some real knowledge about the mechanics (how multiclassing works, what counters some types of enemies, what traps can do to your party and so on).Speaking specifically of picrel, is not often that I have my party completely wiped without being able even to react, so at this point I'm really questioning if the problem is that I'm just bad at it, or if people usually accept this and makes 300 different parties to deal with all the trouble or even save-scum every time a party is gone.On the other hand, maybe there are some easier games in the genre that I should be playing? Maybe something like Strangers of Sword City or Demon Gaze?
>>3279188You're just shit. Start with wizardry 1.>On the other hand, maybe there are some easier games in the genre that I should be playing? Maybe something like Strangers of Sword City or Demon Gaze?No, those are mobile games for retards with no standards.
>>3279192>you're bad>these games are bad tooepic post dude, wish I could upvote
>>3279194>I wanted someone to tell me it was okay to be a lazy retard and play worse and more casual games, I was really hoping to have my incompetence validated so I could stay here and spread my retardation around>that did not happen and now I'm mad
Elminage games aren't particularly hard outside of Gothic which is actually ridiculously hard, but are unapologetically made by Wizardry veterans for Wizardry veterans, so yes, they assume you already know all of the basics and then some.Original is extremely breakable but if you're not a seasoned Wizardry player you can easily get fucked over by how open the progression is and certain dungeons, while fairly easy to map and navigate, can still demolish unexperienced players who get too greedy and don't know how to make proper parties.>>3279188>Maybe something like Strangers of Sword City or Demon Gaze?SoSC is...passable but Demon Gaze is legitimately kusoge, Experience Inc. is not a good developer in general, they're reverse poverty devs compared to Starfish, they push everything on the graphical side and QoL but game design wise they're mediocre to downright bad.
>>3279199>SoSC is...passable but Demon Gaze is legitimately kusoge, Experience Inc. is not a good developer in general, they're reverse poverty devs compared to Starfish, they push everything on the graphical side and QoL but game design wise they're mediocre to downright bad.What would you recommend then? Etrian? Maybe go back to earlier Wizardries?Or should I just keep pushing it with Elminage (I'm having fun with it despite all the fuckery I'm receiving).
>>3279201>What would you recommend then? Etrian?That's a child's game. Just play wizardry. Go download the ps1 port of wizardry 1-3.
>>3279201Honestly if you're having fun keep doing that, that's the important part about games.Original starts out fairly challenging for somebody new to classic dungeon crawlers, but gets considerably easy over time, partly because class masteries are that strong, partly because your party will inevitably grow stronger as you proceed through the game, depending on your class setup you can really turn the game inside out, especially if you have a thief, so keep trucking and eventually you'll beat everything coming your way, even the postgame is fairly easy if you can figure out all the broken stuff.>Etrian?Etrian is pretty decent, they're simple and the game meta is easy to figure out, the dungeons are fairly simple for the most part and there's not a lot of busywork, mapping might be a love or hate thing however, and the general combat design is far removed from the classics for better or worse.Going back to older Wizardries is an option, but frankly, there's no reason to if you play something like Elminage, the OG Llylgamin trilogy is cute in a historical sense but there's nothing particularly interesting compared to modern offerings, W4 is a glorified university test and W5, while being my favorite Wizardry, does show its age, the Saturn/PS1 collection is really good if you wanna get into it though.Past these you have the Dark Savant games which play progressively differently from classic Wizardry, I do not personally like the Dark Savant trilogy, and not because they're clunky, slow and ugly, there's a lot of decisions in terms of game design that I do not agree with, AKA what people like me call Bradleyshit, so play at your own risk.
>>3279199Gothic has like 2 or 3 dungeons that were hard from what I remember.The hardest part is figuring out when to go to which dungeon/level and when grinding is encouraged/discouraged.Also Puzzle-Encounters aka "Figure out which spell to use on which enemy/skill to counter or otherwise get raped in 2 turns".>>3279188SSC is a good one.I always like recommend the older SSI stuff (Eye of the Beholder, Ravenloft, Pool of Radiance etc) because I think that many of the mechanics still hold up well.
>>3279196Seems you just make bait posts and threads and then reply to them with your Mahiro avatar spam.You will never be a real human you filthy shit gnome.
>>3279211I just downloaded the classic Wizardries for PS1 and will give them a try after I'm done with Elminage. Not to mention that I have Wizardry Five Ordeals on Steam, so I might try that at some point as well.As for the Dark Savant Trilogy, honestly I haven't heard that many good things about them. Some people say that they are more akin to classic adventure games than real dungeon crawler experiences. Since they're always cheap as shit, I'll probably get them on some sale, but, again, I'm not that eager to play them.Might and Magic series (also Bard's Tale) seems like something I'd enjoy a lot more.
>>3279215>Also Puzzle-Encounters aka "Figure out which spell to use on which enemy/skill to counter or otherwise get raped in 2 turns".This gets a bit on my nerves. I really hate these kind of situations and really makes me want to save-scum instantly. Then again, seems like a staple of the genre, so I have to just accept that it is like that and keep going.>I always like recommend the older SSI stuff (Eye of the Beholder, Ravenloft, Pool of Radiance etc) because I think that many of the mechanics still hold up well.These have real-time combat, right? The only similar that I played is Legend of Grimrock, and even though I loved it, I was not a big fan of the "grid-dancing" combat. On the other hand, the exploration and atmosphere was top notch, and at some point I'll definitely try Grimrock 2 (and also the ones you mentioned, along with Dungeon Master and it's custom dungeons, something I always wanted to try).
>>3279218>As for the Dark Savant Trilogy, honestly I haven't heard that many good things about them.Wizardry 7 is literally one of the best RPGs ever made and its not until wizardry 6 that wizardry makes the transition from simple dungeon crawler to full fledged CRPG. You will find that most detractors of Bradley usually don't like crpgs and just want to see numbers go up, which is why they also don't understand the value of the original trilogy. (And its unique maps/encounters)
what's with secondaries latching onto this genre
>>3279226>This gets a bit on my nerves.Only Gothic is like that, Original and the other Elminage are fairly relaxed, but Gothic has some really nasty stuff that you really need to know how to handle.The good thing about this is that since progression allows you to multiclass relatively fast and each class in itself has pretty strong options you're never put in a situation where you NEED a specific class to proceed, any party comp in Gothic is viable provided you know how to use it, you can also play the game by turning it into SMT lite, play as a summoner, recruit enemies and make a party of the same monsters you fight.>>3279228>Wizardry 7 is literally one of the best RPGs ever madeNot with that godawful quest design, it isn't.I'll give you that it has the best map in the series though.
>>3279233Blame etrian odyssey making ironic weebs feel like they need to be interested in crawlers
>>3279235>Not with that godawful quest designWizardry 7 has excellent quest design.
>>3279188don't like these kind of games
>>3279196I bet you have a cute little clitty~
>>3279233Why are you getting mad people hold interest in your shit genre?
>>3279196Can I rape correction your boy pussy please
>>3279188>save-scumthat's literally the gameplay, there's a reason these things went extinct
>>3279218Might&Magic 3 through 7 are stone cold classics, and probably just the right amount of "casual vs challenge" for you OP.Don't spoil shit though. 90% of the fun in those games are exploration, and knowing things about them ruins the magic of a first playthrough.
>>3280800A good dungeon crawler should utilize checkpoint saving anyways.
>>3280825These versions of M&M are more adventure/puzzle RPGs or proper dungeon crawlers?
>>3279188Don’t stress about it OP, learning the systems is part of the experience. Failing and struggling is sometimes part of that.
>>3279236Etrian is a gateway drug, once you've crawled you cannot escape the crawling, now I'm a fucked up retard playing absolute kusoge just to get another hitThe Dark Spire was the first actual Wizardry-styled game I played though
>>3279188Elminage Original isn't particularly difficult. That said, from what I recall it doesn't have a particularly useful manual or much in the way of tutorials, so it could be tough to get into if you aren't familiar with Wizardry or AD&D. If you like the game, though, things should fall into place if you keep at it and aren't afraid to experiment. It isn't complex enough to require that you first play other, simpler games.
>>3280825Day of the Destroyer is underrated and hated for no reason whatsoever. I will die on this hill.
>>3279188You're just shit, stats matter and this has been a fact for as long as these games have been a thing.Sorry your low IQ westoid brain can't comprehend such basic facts.
>>3281995Shut up, gook lover. YWNBJ.
>>3279188A bit of both. There are a lot of trap options, most encounters are in fixed locations, and the dungeon difficulty meter is a load of bollocks.Protip; buy the Flamberge, it'll make mincemeat out of most small fry if used as an item. Worth every penny.
>>3279199I agree with your assessment on Experience, but I thoroughly enjoyed Yomi and makes me wonder if they got some new talent at some point.
Are there any brighter and gameplay focused dungeon crawlers out there? I could never get into dreary and brooding games, especially with a story that drones on and on.
>>3279188Hey man, these games are great, but there is a learning curve. If you want a healthy medium that introduces important concepts but doesn't force feed them to you, check out Etrian Odyssey. Enjoy bro!
>>3279201Play Dungeon Travelers
>>3288025I dont have Sony vita
>>3288740It's on PC
>>3279188Sounds like you're just terrible at the game. That's not so bad, though. Everyone started terrible at these games, but repeated wipes will eventually drive you to discover the means people have used for decades to sidestep bullshit.
>>3280914>A good dungeon crawler should utilizeBeastmaster
>>3288744>johrenNo it isn't unless you pirate that shit because fuck johren
>>3279188no they are fucking autistic and unforgiving at times. I had a hard time too with that one. but man, I liked the artstyle, music and the questlines and all that. still, there's no shame in being shit at wizardry-like games. and yeah, Etrian games are a bit easier from what I remember.
>>3289134>spoilerYou know what to do
