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Why don't rpg enthusiasts care abut this game? It's less brought up than mediocre titles such as Icewind Dale, despite being a Troika game
>>
>>3191719
>Why don't rpg enthusiasts care abut this game?
They care, you stupid retard.
It's one of the best DnD adaptations and a solid adventure overall with very good design encounter.
Being niche and release being bugged out of it's ass makes it less known, but ENTHUSIASTS know.
>>
>>3191719
I haven't played it, but what people said when I asked about it in another thread here made it sound like it was harder than the average RPG and filtered people.
>>
From everything people here have said of it, it is a dungeon crawl with nearly no story or dialogue.
>>
>>3191719
icewind dale is better. better itemization, better artstyle, better encounters, better characters, better quests, better story.
toee is an unfinished game even with the mods.
>>
>>3191719
It's a real RPG and CRPG fans don't want that.
>>3191762
IWD is a retard game.
>>
>>3191763
ok
>>3191755
its common for people to just wander into the final boss without any idea what you're even doing or what the story of the place is. it feels like 75% of the dialogue is missing
>>3191751
it's 3E and adapted more of its features than most crpgs (maybe of any crpg) so it confuses a lot people seeing all the featuers like readied actions counter-spelling and crafting. the combat difficulty is pretty standard for a crpg.
>>
>>3191726
In many aspects it's likely the best game. Really hard though.
>>
>>3191762
See>>3191763
Iwd has shit encounter. Hordes and hordes of enemies. It's a great game, but boy, the waves of enemies are tiring at times.
>>
>>3191773
I've been looking at revisiting IWD, NWN etc recently. Are the EEs as fucked as the BG1+2 EEs?
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>>3191719
Rpg enthusiast made a whole expansion pack for it called keep on the borderlands. What the fcuk more do u want?
>>
>>3191782
the iwd ee doesnt add new characters like the ee, but it added a bunch of a bunch of new spells, class kits, and proficiencies the game was never balanced for. if you don't care about that kind of shit, ee is fine.
>>
Game is a double-filter
First you have to get it working in 2023
Then you have to not suck at 3.5dnd
Neither of these are native to zoomers, it is much more of a millennial game or for someone who truly appreciates vintage crpgs
>>
>>3191782
NWN is the only good EE
>>
>>3191719
I played it, it was buggy but I still liked it, but if I had to distill it to one word, it would be: dry. The graphics and animations haven't aged as well as the more high profile crpg classics, I don't remember the soundscape being special (it's totally fine and not bad though) and the story kinda lacks a draw: imagine playing bg1 or bg2 and the only thing you do is clearing durlag's tower or watcher's keep with essentially no other plot or companions. I feel it had even less of a plot than IWDs.
It was obviously unfinished, but it deserves to be among crpg classics, if not quite on the highest rung. I've played dnd 2/2.5/3/3.5 and 5 (plus pf) crpgs and I recall the character creation being one of the finickest I've come accross. Classic "untapped potential" case.
>>
>>3191719
I think you might be mistaking normalfags who like RPGs with actual RPG enthusiasts as actual RPG enthusiasts all know and enjoy TOEE.
>>
>>3191719
because it's garbage just like Arcanum
the difference is Arcanum had steampunk setting and chud bait shit that's why it gained the attention of pseuds and posers unlike this piece of shit
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>>3191719
Really bad encounter design. Bizarre loot distribution that doesn't resemble 3E. Exploitable ruleset.
>>
>>3191719
>despite being a Troika game
>implying it's a positive thing
>>
>rooller simulator
>rpg
Not.
>>
>>3191719
it's actually a really cool game but without Co8 it doesn't shine as much.

I actually installed the Keep on the Borderlands conversion. Also recommendable if you're already done withe th ToEE main game and you wanna play something new.

Otherwise Solasta works similarly and is close to what ToEE was.
>>
>>3191719
The problem was that ToEE was a very boring comp module when played straight and Hommlet is snoozeville. D&D 3.5 being soulless and the game being buggy as shit and unfinished like all Troika's work doesn't help.
>>
>>3191719
it was a buggy piece of shit when it came out (as expected of Troika), and didn't have enough lasting appeal to create a cult following like VTMB or Arcanum did. Only dungeon crawler autists are ever going to give enough of a shit to play it.

Personally, I also hate 3.5 edition rules and don't understand why so many people like that garbage system.
>>
>>3191860
Hold up there partner. The soundtrack for the game is one of the best parts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aYC23wQhT1o&list=PLF9253D5BF9C5B312&index=8&t=3s&pp=iAQB8AUB
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnSVmJAhObk&list=PLF9253D5BF9C5B312&index=11&pp=iAQB8AUB
>>
>>3191860
>dry
I'm sorry did the lack of a gender slider disappoint you?
>>
>>3191719
Turn based D&D games were not very big in the early 2000's. PC gaming was not as big at that time and it was also overshadowed by Neverwinter Nights which had more traction due to being released earlier with a toolset and online play. It got an which had an expansion pack released around the same time as ToEE's release.

Plus Arcanum was known to be a buggy mess on launch and ToEE was even moreso which would have affected sales. Arcanum also didn't do very well in sales and ToEE did worse.

BG1 had hype around it via Black Isle and a lot of success in sales. Icewind Dale being a side story was able to run off the hype for its sequel and being released a few months before BG2 served as a game for people to play while waiting for BG2 to come out.

It's very much that ToEE was a game for crpg aficionados whereas IwD with its association with BG1+2 was a game for the generally more casual BG1+2 players. With the release of the BG1+2: EE and IwD: EE, there's a lot more hype around those games whereas ToEE is still practically sitting in Activision's basement along with Arcanum and takes brainpower to get to run on your computer--something the average gamer doesn't have.
>>
The closer a video game adheres to tabletop garbage the worse it is.
>>
>>3192060
I'm very sorry you have no friends to enjoy dnd with to fully appreciate what roleplaying is supposed to be.
>>
>>3192065
Very weak response. You would have been better off just ignoring the bait and not replying at all.
>>
>>3192045
How did you read that from his post? Fucking hell this board never ceases to find new ways of being retarded and obnoxious. Grow the fuck up Jesus Christ. If you disagree with a point, try an argument. Nobody thinks you are clever or funny.
>>
>>3192065
literal twitter incel tier reply
>>
>>3192060
classic /vrpg/ post, this is why i barely ever come to this shithole
>>
>>3192117
Good
Scoot off on your adventurer wheelchair off to larping as a transgender dragon
>>
>>3192117
This is kind of why this board gets 3 posts a day. Any time you talk about a game that isn't casual bullshit a schizo goes berserk and then starts bumping no less than 40 elder scrolls threads to push it off the catalogue. I'm like 95% certain it's a janny doing it, sadly. It's like being in a general on /vg/.
>>
>>3192090
>>3192106
Don't samefag, everyone knows it's you and it just doesn't work.
>>
>>3191719
i love toee so much bros it's unreal
>>
>>3191976
t. didn't play the game
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>>3192040
this so much
>>
>>3192182
It's not. The first one is me, second is someone else. Doesn't matter though because both are correct.
This is also me btw>>3192103
>>
>>3191840
Works great on win11 with Temple + and Co8
>>
>>3191719
I don't like it for the same reason I don't like the icewind dale games. They're too combat heavy and that gets tiring after a while. Toee is essentially one large dungeon crawl and that just didn't sit well with me.
>>
>>3192553
I am the opposite, really love the combat focus of ToEE and IWD, and get fatigue from the constant interruptions in something like BG2. My first CRPG was ToEE when it was released so that may be why I ended up liking combat so much more.
>>
>>3192553
I play games to play them not talk to some soulless digital husk with preprogrammed responses
>>
>>3191719
i remember i steamrolled everything in the temple with that giant bro you can pick in the temple, also soulfull ost
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>>3192672
Yeah that shit is cool as fuck. You can get a Troll bro too if I remember correctly.
>>
>>3192783
>You can get a Troll bro
tbqh not a fan of exploiting AI stupidity who can't into coup de grace
>>
>>3192796
I've replayed the game so much at this point it offers no challenge regardless of what I do lol
>>
>>3192884
Yep, same here. For testing purposes, I've done it once with 5 weakest NPCs which exist in the game.
Morale: crafting in ToEE can fix absolutely anything including the lowest stats and trash builds.
>>
>>3191719
Apparently the game had so many bugs that it was practically unplayable. Patches fixed it but it was enough to tank it as far as your average player goes.
>>
>>3191719
>despite being a Troika game
True story: I pirated every Troika game at release and lost interest before beating them.
>>
>>3193027
I played it on release over and over with no patches because didnt have internet. Only bug that ever fucked me up was using Scather on the Balor. I honestly cant recall another gamebreaker.
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I am probably one of very few people who actually like the plot of ToEE, but the amount of wasted potential here makes me sad. I just wish it had more Greyhawk lore context provided. But the only thing you can do if you want to know more is reading the books.
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>>3193563
I think most reasonable people can appreciate the important things like how various alignments and factions are organically layered in, which is far more important than any narrative. I'd argue having multiple competing evil factions you can infiltrate is harder to write from a game design standpoint than just dumping some genre fiction plot in there, and there's no shortage of memorable characters and encounters. To me, this is a lot closer to what ideal writing in a CRPG should look like.
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>>3192540
Yes, but we both know it took at least an hour to set that up (plus Java install), then playing with the options in Temple to get the right amount of "fun" for your playthrough.
TOEE would be more popular if the GOG installer auto-installed Temple+/C08 in a reasonable configuration for a 1st playthrough.
>>
>>3193614
That lobster really is the most dangerous thing in the moathouse. Absolutely worth skipping.
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>>3193663
>Yes, but we both know it took at least an hour to set that up
Try 30 seconds
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>>3193690
>>
>>3191762
Fake and gay. Only casuals care for IWD.
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>>3191719
I liked the tight rules and combat, which was the best part of all. Played a solo wizard with wand crafting once, and stomped all over the temple. Charmed a small army of monsters, including the Behemoth King Frog from Imeryds Run - that thing could swallow elemental node demons whole ROFLMAO
>>
I like TOEE but its largely been supplanted and superseded by Solasta. Autistic faggots are going to screech at me, but what really irritates them is they know its true.

TOEE is just too short, the module not that interesting to play more than once and nobody ended up using the engine for anything else, even that IWD-in-ToEE project barely got anywhere before dying in its sleep.
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>>3193716
>5E
>>
>>3193708
>Behemoth King Frog
I was considering catching it as well but eventually rejected the idea when I imagined how it would stuck in every corridor due to its size.
Now I guess it's still worth giving this Frog a try because not every combat is preceded by a corridor.
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Just because the game is a D&D derivative doesn't make it a RPG

Both ToEE & IWD are just dungeon crawlers with as many role defining opportunities as Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed

You faggots are literal NPCs. Just because everybody has honorarily been labeling these games as RPGs, doesn't mean that they are. Collective delusion.

And now to answer your question OP, RPG enthusiasts for the most part like ToEE, your perception of who RPG enthusiasts are is probably skewed by the fact that you are browsing this piece of shit board.
>>
>>3193716
>the module not that interesting to play more than once
Strongly disagree. Even though you're basically cleaning up the same dungeons all over again, there is a lot of stuff to experiment with. The vanilla ToEE module is too small for trying all of the implemented features, spells, multiclass options and so on during a single playthrough.
>>
>>3193751
>doesn't get that turn-based rpg combat is inherently roleplaying
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>>3193201
Yeah, no idea. Just know that was the complaint of the game heard most often.
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>>3193756
most people believe this, funnily enough
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>>3193763
because it's true. your chosen role as an adventurer isn't expressed anywhere more fully than in combat, where choices are abundant and not simply multiple choice narrative railroads.
>>
>>3193743
Lol, my king frog had no problems going through most of the temple hallways and the elemental nodes. If you doing it too, i suggest using resilient sphere to keep it alive. Potion of displacement is another idea. I had to put fire resist on it too, cos i had two noble fire salamanders shooting fireballs.
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>>3193779
>to keep it alive
I though if it dies, you can raise dead or reincarnate it. Or that doesn't work with animals?
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>>3193811
Hmm i guess that should work too, I only had a wizard with no heals or resurrects
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>>3193737
>5e
Yes.
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>>3193818
Yeah, I believe a wizard can do that too
1) If Teleport spell is available: teleport to Hommlet (dead body which is still under effect of a charm spell is being teleported too) and use one of the appropriate NPCs (Jaroo/Terjon) for resurrecting
2) If UMD>=1: use a scroll of Raise Dead
>>
>>3193765
You should try Devil May Cry or Call of Duty, some of the better RPGs out there, really let's you express your character in combat!!

What a fucking retard, holy shit. Is this website a cesspool of the absolute least intelligent / critical thinking people on the fucking planet earth or something
>>
>>3193823
That will work if you use dominate monster, charm monster doesnt add them to your party with a portrait like a party member, unfortunately.
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>>3193827
>charm monster doesnt add them to your party
well, i previously tested the same with Charm Person
while this is true that NPC is not added to your party, if it dies then its corpse is still around you for some time even when you map change
though may be it's a bug but that's what i experienced
>>
>>3193826
You're the retard that can't even post a coherent reply. He was taking about combat choices and you think it's some kind of epic burn to liken it to pure action games? No, that just means you are incapable of telling the difference between things that are obviously different, which is to say you are fucking stupid.

If you aren't actually a total retard, try replying to his post seriously and without sarcasm and maybe you'll change my mind. But i really don't think you're capable.
>>
>>3191719
I remember playing this back in the day and loving it. I was only put off because 3.5 is best played with the Tomb of Battle. I should check if there is a mod for it now.
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>>3193832
That would be cool if true, for a charm
monster wrangler party
>>3193751
>>3193826
I think this misses the point, sure Forgotren Realms: Demon Stone isnt an RPG just because it borrows D&D. As other anon pointed out, roleplayings about options for expressing your choices, personal values. Here i should add, expressing aesthetic values is as fair game as moral values. Same for combat. Of course these options arent going to be relevant for roleplaying in a vacuum, when you arent LIMITED by them. Its why your token action games arent roleplaying, and why "roleplayers" complain about being able to join any guild/faction in TESIV and V without limitations. Its got to be about choosing options which place limits on how you navigate the world, and maybe giving you room to be creative within those limits. If TOEE lets me play a misanthropic loner wizard with no party, who avoids all the Hommlet social quests, and charms badass giant frogs for friends, and lets me make my way through the world this way, its roleplaying and its fun.
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>>3193663
I really dont remember. Set it up on my new pc last year. Didnt think much about it. Played the game through on win11 no issues before I remembered the mods existed.
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>>3193864
>monster wrangler party
One of the things I'm planning to try for a more challeging playthrough is to go with solo druid, dominate 5 hommlet chickens (weakest unit in the game), evolve them to level 10 (no cheats) and see if it's possible to kill everything with chicken bites.
>>
>>3193876
Amazing
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>>3193876
Nice, that's roleplaying right there
>>
>>3193876
Bruh, you gotta take Elmo too.
>Elmo and the chickens, TOEE soundstage, one night only
>>
>>3193876
Man I am just imagining how brutal so many of the encounters will be.
>>
>>3193901
Solo druid actually got a bit going for them for such a run. A high spot and wilderness lore, plus telescope from Hommlet traders will basically let them pick and choose which overworld combat encounters to engage during the chicken training montage!
>>
>>3193910
I can imagine an adventuring party encountering the crazy chicken man.
>>
>>3193889
nah, that means one less chicken because max possible number for NPCs (including dominated creatures) is 5

>>3193901
need to check if it's possible use scrolls from inventory of an animal, that would simplify things a lot
>>
>>3193915
I think you can change max number with temple+
>>
>>3193916
Yeah, I considered Temple+ when saying that max number of NPCs is 5. Default is 3, Temple+ can increase to 5, but not more than that.
>>
>>3193751
What motivates someone this stupid to come here for years? There is absolutely zero chance you've made a single positive contribution to this place.
>>
>>3193926
Ooh. Its been a while since I played so wasnt sure. Got into IE games with the wife and kids so been neglecting the single player games. Now I really want to return to ToEE for cool setups since crazy chicken man sounds fun as hell.
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>>3193664
In the c08 mod you can go do like a zombie quest or whatever in a graveyard before the moatyard so you can lvl up and do a quest instead of having to grind levels off those giant spiders or do the awful hommlet talking quests. The zombies make you strong enough for the moat house. In the vanilla game it's definitely a big difficulty spike

You go back a second time to the moat house with the mod and that's fun too
>>
>Co8
I remember spending literally a whole fucking day running in the drainage tunnels trying to figure out what I need to do next with 'What Lies Beneath' quest and eventually finding out that I hit the bug where I need to use console command to change one of the flag variables in order to make the quest progress further. That part was not fun at all.
Other than that, the New Content, while not being perfect and finished, is still playable and enjoyable.
>>
I'm actually planning on playing this soon. Does anyone know how well the Temple+ mod runs on Linux? I think the executable should work with Wine, but I'm curious if there's anything to watch out for.
>>
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for some reason, when you ressurect a dominated chicken it gets 180500 exp which is enough to get lvl 19
that's not gonna be challenging at all, so need to think of something else
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>>3194676
Hahaha amazing
>>
>>3194676
>need to think of something else
so the task is getting harder: complete the game with zero chicken deaths because i want fair leveling
on the other hand, it turns out that animals can use scrolls, potions (and probably wands too), so this provides a handful amount of potential workarounds for challenging encounters
>>
>>3193751
Turn-based dungeon crawlers is where this genre started you fucking troglodyte. This is where the rpg as video game started, cock sucker.


ToEE being poor example of it is different topic.
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>>3194431
How is the new content?

I found toee insufferably boring because every single encounter in the game could be solved by lobbing three fireballs down the hall as soon as combat starts. One fireball mage, one fireball rogue from a rod, next round, one more fireball from mage.

Does combat get less braindead at higher levels in the new content?
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>>3194732
>every single encounter in the game could be solved by lobbing three fireballs down the hall as soon as combat starts
This is clearly exaggeration. Fireball does nothing to Balor, salamanders, Zuggtmoy. That's just off the top of my head. There are other enemies with high reflex save, so fireball does not much to them.
IMO: fireball is an overrated spell. Every encounter that is beatable by one fireball spell can easily be beatable without fireball as well, you just have to spend some more turns.

>Does combat get less braindead at higher levels in the new content?
I would say that fireball might be useful in most of the encounters, even though I used other spells.
There is one quest where you encounter evil monks (which have high reflex save and evasion against spells like fireball).
There is one quest where an enemy is beatable only with one certain spell (not fireball).
And the last quest looks like it was designed specifically for you, see pic related.
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alright leeeet's go
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>>3195050
Good luck fren. May your chickens prosper.
>>
>>3195053
Thanks.
Frogs are too strong for 3hp chicks. Have to gain a few levels at Hommlet and Welkwood Bog first.
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>>3195050
Amazing
Keep me posted
>>
>>3191726
>solid adventure overall with very good design encounter.
No, no and no. Encounters are braindead thanks to non existing ai, that has only one mode, all out rush on the pc. What is has, is fantastic 3e dnd representation. Spells, abilities, it's all there, and it plays in turns, with really intuitive and well executed ui. It's also unfinished, with non-existing story. All in all it's not a good game, but still a game worth playing.
>>
>>3191773
Yea, it's not replayable at all, thanks to it. Morons at Black Isle, saw the success of Diablo, and thought they could do action rpg out of infinity engine.
>>
>>3195497
I replay IWD alot with wife. Replayability is in the different choices of classes.
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>>3195495
>Encounters are braindead thanks to non existing ai, that has only one mode, all out rush on the pc.
Provide examples of good encounter design as an opposite to "all out rush on the pc".
>>
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>>3191719
It's too hardcore for most people on this board. Unironically.
Also, people on this board love crap like shitty romances.
>>
>>3195616
bg2, bg3, even bg1 on main encounters. Temple is clearly Alpha, it was severely rushed, not just with content, but with ai and encounter design as well.
>>3195629
There's nothing hardcore about it. It's just poorly balanced, and on a few encounters, requires foreknowledge, since game scripts an ambush, and throws stacks at player. Wrong party composition, not min maxed leveling and player is doomed. That's just poor game design. Curiously, the same problems are exhibited in that other Troika game, but they are secondary there, since there's a story and a world to explore there, wheras you barely get out of tutorial area in Temple when the game just ends. It seams to me that they learned from mistakes made in Arcanum, and worked hard on improving the combat and game system, to the level where they're perfected it, and in the end, it's all they were left with, so they spiked the difficulty in attempt to draw a few extra hours out of what they had.
Don't get me wrong, I really love how certain things work in Temple, especially it's approach to weapons, but it's not a good game, not even with all the community patches and mods. It's just not enough there to build on.
>>
>>3195681
>bg2, bg3, even bg1 on main encounters
and now explain why exactly they're better

>Wrong party composition, not min maxed leveling and player is doomed.
objectively incorrect

if you fuck up your leveling choices, the game allows you to fix your mistakes with
1) casting more buffs
2) crafting items for stats
3) hiring strong NPCs
4) always-hitting sword
5) if you're struggling with some particular combat, you can always go somewhere else, level up and try again
>>
>>3195495
>No, no and no. Encounters are braindead thanks to non existing ai
This is factually wrong and the AI can choose targets based on range, AC, class, health, etc., with a seperate prioritization commands for friendlies as well. This is literally how enemies are coded, you can look at it yourself. Hell, the only only targeting procedure that DOESN'T exist is to go after the PC. What the fuck are you talking about? The only game I can think of that has better AI than ToEE is KotC, which is based on ToEE anyways????? Why do people make posts like this???????????????????
>>
>>3195809
There is literally a conspiracy here to disrupt discussion of anything that isn't completely braindead. People completely make shit up. Just leave while you still can. This is easily the worst board on the entire site.
>>
>>3195826
You should leave, you stupid nigger tourist.
>>
>>3195840
You should kill yourself.
>>
>>3191882
>Arcanum had steampunk setting and chud bait shit that's why it gained the attention of pseuds and posers unlike this piece of shit
THIS!
Only reason people keep pretending to like that piece of shit is because it validates their equaly repugnant beliefs.
>>
>>3195841
Is what you should right now.
>>
>>3195050
why?
>>
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>>3195865
just a fun challenge to try beating the game with the weakest possible units and see what will come out of this
i've already done that with the weakest hirable joke NPCs (that corresponding ending slide was a nice unexpected reward lol), so now i just want to go further in this direction
>>
>>3195850
I like arcanum because it is my favorite action RPG. Not an action-rpg you say?
Scuse me while I whip this thing out
>Harm x 100
>mfw -112 fatigue
Hope you learned your lesson, I'll be walking around in an hour and you're a spirit now.
>>
>>3195850
As Gigachud Prime I tend to dislike steampunk because it's infused with useless leftists like the New Jersey bridge and tunnel crowd. Which makes sense because it's a subculture that is pure reddit and memes with no literary backing of note like the actual fantasy or cyberpunk genres. Therefore arcanum has remained pretty low on my backlog list.
>>
>>3195930
yeah steampunk is for faggots. but so are vampires, and vmtb is breddy gud.

that said I hated arcanum and couldn't finish it.
>>
>>3195931
One of our fine fellow board scholars brought up that VMTB is way more troika than anne rice, and they're absolutely right.
An anne rice approved vmtb would be indistinguishable from modern wokeslop since she's responsible for a good 75 percent of troonism etc.
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>>3195934
What the fuck is this post? Why are you even in this thread? You've never played ToEE even once in your life.
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>>3195934
VTMB is super fucking gay, and it's a the worst source engine game ever made thanks to Tim Cain, the lord of faggots, after ToEE flopped and he decided RPGs weren't marketable, which by the way flopped because he repeatedly hindered his staff with half-baked ideas like insisting every alignment had its own intro well into the game's development and failing to meet very basic demands from the publisher, which ultimately resulted in a buggy unfinished product that took fans 2 decades to fix. This board has a very serious issue with repressed homosexuality and you can tell their obsessed with gay cock with how much they jerk off VTMB and NV, drama loaded story games to make a sissy's butthole pucker.

What a steaming crock of shit, never post on this site again.
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>>3195956
>This board has a very serious issue with repressed homosexuality
It's funny to me that Gygax's analysis of the extent of a woman's interest in DnD very much aligns with /vrpg/'s taste, it's almost like they're a bunch of low test soiboys that were born the wrong gender, so of course they'd get filtered by a gygax module converted to the nerdiest most masculine version of dnd ever made.
>>
>>3191844
the only good thing about nwnee are alazander's modules
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>>3195956
>>3195972
>t. projecting turbofaggots
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>>3191719
I loved it, but my first time through I kept crashing during the Zugmytoy fight at the end. Apparently due to Fragrach being a big giant fucking glitch itself. I managed to do it without Fragrach though.

Years later I dl'ed the CO8 mod and beat it again, as well as the white ice dragon optional fight. Felt good. Even killed Iuz.

Been meaning to go through it again with the Temple+ mod but haven't had the time.
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>>3196058
As a VMTB enjoyer, I know that both Gygax was based on a level they can't actually aspire to and also that I can bench press one or both of them so it's all good.
ToEE was good shit though I used to look through the 2nd ed module which I owned and think about them converting it to computers one day probably around the time I played Pool of Radiance in EGA on a 486.

I don't think they can understand the perspective of evolution of the genre since there was nothing else then and things like VMTB tended to represent a massive leap forward of their era. They look backward and just see the s'oy, because all they know is s'oy and not the enduring reasons that give a man the will to keep going after he's lived long enough to become everyone's villain.
>Gygax's ex also tried to steal and burn down his life's works, hence Mythus the superior product to D&D.
One day that will get remade properly.
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>>3191719
They do. It is a rather well known game that anyone into the genre has played.
Icewind Dale is well above mediocre, and is a better game than Temple of Elemental Evil, not least for the reason that the game will launch without mods.
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>>3196335
>s a better game than Temple of Elemental Evil
how lol, it's a shallow rtwp game, it's a combat game with the absolute worst possible combat
>>
>>3196348
Multiplayer wins
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>>3196356
>I can play with my long distance brazilian boyfriend so it's good
>>
>>3196358
>>3196348
We made the poor assumption that this thread was made in good faith. Rather than a boring realtime/turn base troll.
>>
>>3196358
Sorry you dont have friends and family that play lan games with you.
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>>3196363
Dude, the combat in IWD is clearly absolutely fucking awful. Not even Sawyer thinks it's good. Its an absolutely atrocious extremely casual game.
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>>3195972
Well, it is one of the lamest Gygax modules.
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>>3196368
Iwd1 is on the easy side I didn't even bother to pause when I played it but 2 is difficult.
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>>3196368
>its an absolutely atrocious extremely casual game
Not really. It's about as hard as ToEE (not very), but it's far from casual. The low level dnd combat up to dragons eye is very deadly, your rests are severely restricted in dungeons, losing characters requires backtracking to a temple. I know the EEs made it easier with OP kits, but not by that much.
It's hilarious people who call IWD atrociously casual are using ToEE as an example of real hardcore gameplay, the game where every encounter is resolved by cleave chaining or fireball.
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>>3196434
Fireball is so good mmmph. So satisfying.

I always mod it so I can go up to lvl20 and fight the mayor of the extra city verbonak or whatever the fuck it's called (Google says... verbobonc) . The true final boss. Hardest fight in the game you gotta fight the mayor and his friends in his office.

I killed everyone in verbobonc since I couldn't find the gnomes for a quest. So I decided to just take the exp from their life forces heheehe
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>>3196434
>the game where every encounter is resolved by cleave chaining or fireball.
The only way to stack cleaves is to set up whirlwinds, while also having a party perfectly designed to equip and buff the warrior and it will only effect enemies in his immediate vicinity so you'll have to give him invis and send him to a high priority target. Fireballs are definitely not as strong as you think they are, you have a very limited amount and they require some set up, but this was already explained to you. There's a great deal of forward planning that's simply not in IWD and thats the sort of thing that makes the game really immersive, sneaking around with your rogue and setting up each and every fight carefully. If you save scum through the game and rest constantly (which also requires save scumming) then yeah you're not going to enjoy the game because you're cheating through it anyways.

Not really any thinking necessary in IWD at all.
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>>3196439
>gotta fight the mayor and his friends in his office
>The true final boss.
No, the evil route is the easiest there. If you choose Wilfricks's (viscount of Verbobonc) side, then there are vastly more content, including the final 'Demons & demigods' quest which is the only quest in the game that requires a min-maxed party (ofc if played without abusing any broken cheese).
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>>3196441
By that logic NWN1/NWN2 or PFKM/WOTR has the most hc combat ever.

I liked ToEE but this somewhat of an apples and oranges situation. Your point would be stronger if we compared the combat to a game that has several degrees less complexity like fallout, but most decently implemented dnd(-like) crpgs are in the same ballpark in regards to complexity.
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>>3196489
and the big difference makers are usually
1) level (bg tob / nwn motb can be an exhausting mess if you're not used to it)
2) available spells and abilities (fighter battles vs. wizard battles)
3) encounter design

And in any free-flowing crpg these situations can differ very much from playthrough to playthrough and player to player.
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>>3196441
>The only way to stack cleaves is to set up whirlwinds
idk what a whirlwind is but my basic 2h fighter was cleaving all day with basic auto-attacks with simple buffs.
>while also having a party perfectly designed to equip and buff the warrior
i.e. have someone who can cast haste/enlarge
>and it will only effect enemies in his immediate vicinity
a huge amount of ToEE encounters are with swarms/mobs in narrow hallways/doorways
look man, there's nothing wrong with non-hardcore combat. I only take issue with you shitting all over IWD for no reason
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>>3196489
>By that logic NWN1/NWN2 or PFKM/WOTR has the most hc combat ever
NWN/pathfinder is literally just set it and forget it. Even the hardest custom nwn modules are spamming one ability over and over and resting with zero penalty.
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>>3193663
do i need both t+ and co8? i just want vanilla experience with bugs fixed
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>>3196637
>do i need both t+ and co8?
Yes, because they fix different bugs.

>vanilla experience
You choose whether to enable Co8 New Content after Co8 installation.
Temple+ additions (new races, classes, feats) can't be disabled but you can just nevermind all that stuff by not selecting it anywhere.
Installation instructions:
https://www.gog.com/forum/temple_of_elemental_evil/temple_of_elemental_evil_toee_mod_installation_guide_co8_portraits_temple/page1
>>
Anything for making UI bigger?
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>>3196745
Yes.
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>>3196745
Play it in 1024x768.
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>>3195930
Hot take: arcanum isn't steamunk. Things don't have gears on it for no reason, people wear gogles only when they have a need for them, women dress like you would expect them to do in the XIX century. Also vibe is way more pessimistic than steampunk. It's more like some sort of slav fantasy that just happened to have industrial revolution.
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>>3191719
It's gay and janky. A subtle foreshadowing.
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>>3195850
I liked it plenty and I played it long before I realized gnomes existed IRL. It's a great rpg. Playing as a thief was especially interesting.
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>>3191719
It's pretty good
But bugged as fuck
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>>3195495
>No, no and no. Encounters are braindead thanks to non existing ai, that has only one mode, all out rush on the pc.
what is it about this game that compels people to lie about it so much?
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>>3196836
biotards lie as they breathe.
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>>3196441
Have you even played this game? It takes no effort at all to make a reach tripper with Cleave.
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>>3196441
>Not really any thinking necessary in IWD at all.
IWD has plenty of well designed, hard encounters that require thinking or for dumb cunts lots of reloading. Please stop lying about games you trannies. Both IWD and TOEE are games made by men for men.
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>>3196606
Well now that's just bullshit. ToEE is neat, but it's laughable to pretend it's somehow "deeper" when it's using what is essentially the same ruleset as other games. Come on now.
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>>3196791
You're thinking of reddit-punk. Arcanum definitely has steampunk (along with magic and other styles as it has more going for it than a simple aesthethic). Though I consider "steampunk" a stillborn genre as it has next to none good implementstions.
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>>3196998
i think he's making fun of what people call steampunk.
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>>3197002
Yeah, I tried to play along with the joke until autism took over in my post.
The "hecking cool"-crowd influencing things often makes originally good things shit.
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>>3196995
Surrounding a jobber with your mooks and autoattacking him to death is deeper when you take 3 turns to do it, didn't you know?
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Chicken Bite damage is 1d4+1.
STR 5 results in -3.
With Bull's Strength I can make it +2 = 1d4.
So basically this is like fighting the whole game with a dagger that you can't enchant.

Magic Fang adds +1.
Weapon Specialization (Unarmed) feat can give another +2.
Rage also gives +1.

At higher druid levels I will be able to add +1 damage by Greater Magic Fang and +4 by Animal Growth.

I will probably choose STR+1 on levels 4 and 8, this will give another +1.

So the at highest the damage will be 11-14.
But since I will be getting at least five rogue levels as well, I'm adding +3d6 Sneak Attack.

Actually I'm now considering to go 100% rogue as sneak attack damage for chickens seems to be much more important than fighter feats.

Therefore problematic enemies are anyone who is immune to critical and has DR 12+. Not many of those exist in ToEE.
UMD is the only hope in those fights.
>>
>>3194490
I don't have personal experience with the Temple+ mod on Linux, but according to user reviews and forums, the mod runs well on Linux with Wine. However, some users have reported occasional crashes and glitches, so it's recommended to save frequently and keep a backup of your game saves. Also make sure you have the latest version of Wine.
>>
>>3196995
>the same ruleset
The rtwp games are lacking 99% of the mechanics ToEE has. NWN and ToEE might as well be different genres.
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>>3197164
>The rtwp games are lacking 99% of the mechanics ToEE
more like they have 90% of the same mechanics, losing ~10% of the odd features that don't transfer well to rtwp like readied actions.
if they were realy that different, I wouldn't be able to employ the same exact tactics and build strategies from the rtwp games in the TB game and get the same results. But I do. they play out the same way. The only difference is I have to manually attack with my 2h cleave fighter instead of letting him auto.
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>>3197205
Readied actions amount to far more than 10% of mechanics and you'd know this if you played real RPGs. The entire way encounters function is completely undermined once this is gone because 3.5e has a sort of rock, paper, scissors mechanic entirely dependent on it. (ToEE does not fully use this by the way) A wizard can't dump damaging spells on his first turn because he'll get disrupted by a readied arrow from a martial and steam rolled, and on the following turns he'll be locked into a counterspell/debuff battle with the opposing wizard, while martial wrestle in the center of the field to break the line and unravel the opposing forces set up. RtwP tends to produce damage blobs where you just select all your characters and watch cascading outflank procs and it's absolutely nothing like how 3.5e actually works. This is ignoring critical feature like phases which simply don't exist and things like grappling which cant reliably be implemented in real time. The flow of battle is completely different and rtwp becoming popular is the greatest tragedy that has ever happened to CRPGs, because you've essentially made it impossible to have any complexity whatsoever and regressed gameplay design all the way back to the earliest DOS era games.
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>>3197212
That is not how 3.5 works at all, you are fucking high.
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>>3197214
Go play KotC right now.
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>>3197215
I've beaten KotC 1 and 2 multiple times. That's not what KotC's encounters look like. It's also nothing like what tabletop 3.5 looks like.
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>>3197212
>A wizard can't dump damaging spells on his first turn because he'll get disrupted by a readied arrow from a martial and steam rolled,
yeah and in rtwp you can do the same thing, just naturally since it's in real time and having a whole mechanic for interrupts becomes redundant
>moves goalpost from TB crpgs to actual tabletop
>grappling is actually SUPER important
you know I completely expected you to latch onto the 10% of minor things that don't tranfser well and overstate how crucial they are. nobody gives a fuck about grappling in ToEE.
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>>3197216
>That's not what KotC's encounters look like
Yes they are lol, you can't even beat KotC2 without grappling. It's literally impossible.
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>>3197216
>That's not what KotC's encounters look like.
No, that's a pretty accurate description of KotC. You can't nuke on the first phase and encounters are generally decided by debuffing and locking down the big bad while your martials fight through a horde of enemies so they can incapacitate him. Thats like half the fights. If it was pathfinder you'd just prebuff and send all your units to the boss and end the fight in under 3 seconds, infinity engine games are even worse, and well NWN doesn't have that at all because you can only control a single character so you just queue up your most broken spell and go make a sandwich.
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>>3197218
Well, let's see what you described:
>Wizard can't cast on his first turn because readied arrows
Straight up wrong, and that's with KotC 2 cheating in favor of its AI by letting them full attack with readied ranged attacks. Win initiative and you don't have to worry about this. Disrupt their line of effect with terrain. Delay and let someone else disrupt them, I did that last one constantly.
>and on the following turns he'll be locked into a counterspell/debuff battle with the opposing wizard,
Just straight up wrong again.
>while martial wrestle in the center of the field to break the line and unravel the opposing forces set up.
Wrong again.
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>>3197220
No it fucking isn't.
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>>3197221
>Win initiative and you don't have to worry about this
You can't do this because you can't nuke on the first turn, you'll just have a miserable time and have to save scum through all your fights, which is probably what you did. If you're getting clowned on by initiative then you're playing wrong.
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>>3197222
Dude, you don't even get free phase buffing until like 75% of the way through the campaign. What's the point of chucking a spirit bomb on the first turn when every encounter spawns enemies in over time? That's just retarded.
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>>3197223
Yes you can do that, stop sucking ass.
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>>3197225
Because when you take down enemies they stop being able to do anything to your party. Works flawlessly throughout KotC 1 and it still works fine in KotC 2 despite its retarded unannounced reinforcement spam encounters.
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>>3197226
No you literally can't and you just admitted you can't because you were whining about initiative. You were reloading fights over and over like a retard until you got godlike rolls. How is your opinion worth anything? Absolutely embarrassing.
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>>3197227
KotC1 from mid game onwards will aggro entire fortresses and caverns onto you by mid-game where half the grunts have mind blast, and then starts the insane balor and dragon spam.
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>>3197230
>mind blast
Take classes with good Will saves.
>balor
I don't remember what I did to fight Balors, but I remember the only time I had trouble with the one in the Lich tower was when I had 2 Fighters because they couldn't hit them for shit even buffed.
>dragon
Waves of Exhaustion + Web

If you wanted to call out actually annoying encounters from KotC 1, try the one in the orc fortress where orc clerics get a surprise round, the mountain range encounter where you're dropped into a pit of insect swarm and slow, the encounter where the walls open up and grappling elementals get a surprise round on you in the lich tower, or the exit to the orc fortress where a bunch of kobolds get a bullshit surprise round on you even if you know they're there.
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>>3197232
Gnolls, not kobolds. Still bullshit.
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>>3197232
>Waves of Exhaustion + Web
When is the last time you played? The AI is quite good at removing web now and will even actively use swarm for area denial. Waves doesn't even hit a lot of dragons reliably, but since you're save scumming I guess that doesn't matter.
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>>3197236
Sometime in 2017 with a version I had from 2010. The AI always tried to remove Web. Exhaustion+Entangle is still a -10 Dex penalty and Dragons don't have >10 Dex.
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>>3197240
>with a version I had from 2010
Then you played a very incomplete broken version of the game. The dev updates his games weekly for years after release, KotC2 is STILL getting constant huge updates.
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>>3197232
>but I remember the only time I had trouble with the one in the Lich tower was when I had 2 Fighters because they couldn't hit them for shit even buffed.
You have to use the corresponding weapon enchants to hit them, like with vampires.
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>>3197242
The most broken part of the game was it freezing on random encounters, not the AI. KotC 1 was mostly complete when it came out.
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>>3197246
>KotC 1 was mostly complete when it came out.
No it definitely wasn't and a lot was rebranded and changed.
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>>3197245
No, that's for getting through DR. They had problems landing attacks at all.
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>>3197247
*rebalanced
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>>3197247
Such as?
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>>3197248
You built your martials wrong then. Either the weapons didn't have enough +hit or you weren't buffing them right.
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>>3197251
Such as the things that were already mentioned. KotC1 basically didn't stop getting updates until 2's Kickstarter in 2019, so you skipped out on nearly a decade of patching.
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>>3197253
You know there's a cap on how high both of those can go, right.
>>3197254
The AI already obsessively lit webs on fire and used Insect Swarm. I'm not seeing a real difference.
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>>3197256
>I'm not seeing a real difference.
>I didn't play it but they are the same. Just trust me dude, I save scummed through all the fights, I'm an expert.
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>>3197256
>You know there's a cap on how high both of those can go, right
Yeah, and you didn't hit that cap. The wizard also has a spell that raises +hit by 4 which doesn't stack with the much weaker bless and lots of other things to consider. Your fighters should be human can openers by the time you get to lich tower.
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>>3192103
>How did you read that from his post? Fucking hell this board never ceases to find new ways of being retarded and obnoxious. Grow the fuck up Jesus Christ. If you disagree with a point, try an argument. Nobody thinks you are clever or funny.
>>
>>3191719
my parents didn't want me playing that game because the polish title sounds unusually satanic so i was stuck with icewind dale and such
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>>3197452
Funnily enough the source material had the same problem.
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>>3191719
combats great, but that's about it. If all your RPG has is combat, it's barely an RPG but a tactical strategy game
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>>3197563
Anon, you realize this is an actual real life DnD module, right?
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>>3197563
grognards were right.
the effects dramafags have had on the crpg genre has been disastrous.
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>>3197563
>>3197577
odds its one person falseflagging?
>>
>>3197212
just thought to chime in:
grappling mechanics in 3.5 were very unpopular on the tabetop and are widely considered to be badly implemented
not to mention the feat taxes required to make a sub-par character power-wise who can grapple decently but do little else

No comment on anything else in your post.
>>
This game is the equivalent of cutting everything from Pillars of Eternity except the starting village and dungeon, then calling it a complete experience and rushing it to sale.

>boring town with NPCs who have nothing to say
>one (1) dungeon comprises the entirety of the game
>possible to literally accidentally kill the final boss without knowing he's the final boss

Even in tabletop ToEE is shit, it is hyped up purely because DUDE GREYHAWK and DUDE IT'S LIKE... AMAZING AND OLD. The Troika adaptation is worse, and the only people who argue on here to try and claim it's better than other games are special snowflakes who will hold up literal slop on a pedastal if it gives them a brief moment of feeling superior in their otherwise mediocre lives.
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>>3197212
>rtwp becoming popular is the greatest tragedy that has ever happened to CRPGs, because you've essentially made it impossible to have any complexity whatsoever
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>>3197789
It's still better than PoE though.
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>>3197803
I can't think of a single CRPG that ToEE is better than. None. It barely even qualifies as a game.
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>>3197804
I'll grant you it's not much of a feat, but it stands head and shoulders above PoE, which has so much dragging it down from being enjoyable, interesting or even challenging.
>>
>>3197789
>Obsidian tard has a awful opinion
Okay
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>>3197808
Disagree. 3x adaption slop is everywhere in CRPGs, which eliminates the only potential unique thing TOEE has going for it.

PoE is unique, both in rules and setting and has a lot of interesting things going on, especially in comparison to the literal nothing that is TOEE. This can't be refuted.
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>>3197566
People here don't want an RPG and have been completely mindfucked into think rpgs are the literal opposite of what an actual rpg is.
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>>3197815
>has no argument
>"obisian tard lol"

I accept your UTTER concession of defeat. You may now kneel, crawl and kiss my feet like the inferior form of life you are.
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>>3197816
>PoE is unique, both in rules and setting and has a lot of interesting things going on
Is that why Sawyer made an hour long presentation literally bursting into tears and crying about how 3.5e is too complex and unmarketable?
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>>3197815
Always do the opposite of what Obsidian fans say, there is no greater tell that someone is a schizophrenic retard than liking Obsidian games.
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>>3197789
>Even in tabletop ToEE is shit, it is hyped up purely because DUDE GREYHAWK and DUDE IT'S LIKE... AMAZING AND OLD
ToEE is popular because it's the first series of modules with heavy reactivity. Like how there's a dynamic between the cultists and the villagers in the towns, and the separate cultists factions in the dungeons, and this is a level of reactivity PoE doesn't even come close to, by the way.
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>>3191719
It is just tedious. Tim Cain is overrated. I think he realized how to make fund games in his old age. He gave a talk about it. That is why The Outer Worlds was fun. If you disagree you're a poorfag Euro autist codex cultist.
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>>3197827
Codex hates ToEE lol
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>>3197825
Wow! It would be cool if any of that was in the game!
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>>3197825
>the separate cultists factions in the dungeons
This is probably the coolest part about ToEE. Instead of just having a dungeon you can only murderhobo through there's a bunch of groups you can talk to and work with. Even in BG2 and the like the few dungeon quests you have kind of exist in a vacuum, whereas in ToEE its like this huge interconnected thing.
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>>3197841
>Wow! It would be cool if any of that was in the game!
It's literally in the game.
>>
>>3197789
>Even in tabletop ToEE is shit, it is hyped up purely because DUDE GREYHAWK and DUDE IT'S LIKE... AMAZING AND OLD
ToEE is so popular that its even been converted to 5e now.
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>>3197847
>it's literally in the game
>so forgettable and so barely there that it's possible to skip it entirely
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>>3197858
Yes, exactly. It's the epitome of normie "It's GOOD BECAUSE... uhhh... it's GOOD!" nonsense. The fact that it was converted to 5e is maybe the biggest strike against TOEE possible.
>>
>another thread spammed by poe schizos
This thread is for ToEE, gtfo with your reddit game
>>
>>3197861
Its not possible to skip it, you just aren't noticing it because its not some hack fraud obsidishit game where it goes:
>MIGHTY HERO DO YOU CHOOSE TO SIDE WITH THE CHURCH OR THE TEMPLE???
>YOU HAVE CHOSEN THE CHURCH, HERE IS YOUR STEAM ACHIEVEMENT. NOW PLEASE FOLLOW THIS DEAD END CHURCH QUEST LINE BEFORE RESUMING THE MAIN QUEST TO RECIEVE YOUR EXCLUSIVE CHURCH ARMOR WHICH IS JUST RECOLORED TEMPLE ARMOR WITH +1 WIS INSTEAD OF +1 INT
Instead its just things that happen in the background, like if you kill the leader of the church good aligned characters will attack you in Nulb, or if you work with a Temple faction to undermine competing factions the target will assume a defensive posture, or if you team up with Lareth SPOILERS will happen.
>>
Of course chickens can Open Locks too!

Welkwood Bog cleared.
Finally got level 2, so now they're Animal 1 / Rogue 1
>>
>>3198537
Keep us updated bro, you are a champion.
>>
the game that got me into ambient music
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Good to see Solasta get mentioned as a proper successor. Thick. Tight.
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>>3198937
Solasta doesn't even have any right to exist after bg3 released, that game is embarrassingly bad by comparison.
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>>3191762
RTwP is for rat people pretending to be humans
>>
that crayfish had zero chance to survive against those angry rogue chicks sneak attacks from underwater
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>>3198980
Solasta's still good, it's just a different kind of game.
It's also half the price of BG3. If you still pay for videogames.
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>>3198980
Solasta has better combat. Not in the official campaigns, but the user made shit.

BG3 doesn't even have user made shit. Also, use the mod for Solasta. Basically triples the capabilities of everything.
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>>3199180
>Solasta has better combat. Not in the official campaigns, but the user made shit.
No it doesn't and KotC2 has the better module editor anyways. There isn't a single piece of user made content worth playing in Solasta, its not even on the level of NWN stuff. I'm not sure why the Solasta schizo is still hanging around here anyways, you're not going to force Solasta in a million years, its just way too bad. You've been trying to force this shit for like a year or more.
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>>3199211
>solasta schizo
He is, I shit you not a self admitted module creator (he said this in one of the threads a while back).

It's especially annoying because anytime people who actually messed around with the tools point out deep issues (no NPC dialogue initiators years later) he goes into full shill mode.
>>
>>3199220
Who gives a fuck about npc dialogue? Solasta is about combat. And it’s good.

You don’t need to say the DM is bad in theory when you can just play it. And I never released a module, just tucked around with it for a couple hours. So you’re imagining shit.
>>
>>3199241
>Solasta is about combat. And it’s good.
But the combat in solasta is terrible.
>>
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Negative STR modifier also mutiplies x2 when rolling critical.
It's the first time I realise there can be some cases when rolling critical is worse than not rolling critical.
>>
>>3199290
5th edition sucks. I tried to like it for a long time, but it's just bad.
>>
>>3199383
That's got to be an error.
>>
>>3199403
Solasta sucks. 5e is salvagable and it works fine in good modules, but no one can make good modules now.
>>
>>3197258
I'm currently level 12 on a new playthrough. I don't know what I expected, but fuck you for trying to hype the AI up as some completely different beast. The only difference I've seen is that enemies try to grapple instead of attack about a third of the time which is almost always a huge detriment to them because it's less dangerous than them attacking and gives me extra turns to beat on them.
>>
>>3197789
ToEE at least has SOUL whereas PoE often just doesn't.
>>
>>3199458
>empty
They just planned more than eventually finished.
>>
>>3191719
dogshit game lmao, as if you can compare this trollop to Icewind Dale
>>
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>>3197816
PoE is certainly unique. It's also just not very good.
also
> setting
is perhaps the worst thing about it. With POE Sawyer has the table cleared to make way for a unique and compelling original fantasy setting and he settles for off-brand dnd but vaguely 16th century to satisfy his history nerd autism and burning desire to remake darklands.

Sawyers personal politics that he wears on his sleeve are a reflection of his psychology as a game designer. He desires to be a Great Man but he's trapped in the typical liberal piss pants situation of being worried about what people might think and that he'll be ostracized for Wrong Opinions.

Imagine a slightly different universe where Sawyer, instead of bloviating over several videos. at times almost in tears, where he exhaustively covers why he thinks DnD x.x is flawed and how it is bad for new players or whatever, he just came out of the gate spewing hate for dnd being a shit system and other game designers being retards who dont understand game design at all, and that his new rpg would be the second coming and set gold standards for the industry. Instead of off-brand dnd for a setting he just says "dnd is gay and I'm here to bury it. Fuck tolkien too nigga".

I cant promise that version of POE would be any more successful but I do know he'd at least be a cult figure in the scene instead of the perennially lukewarm reception he gets everywhere now.
>>
>>3193826
kek you're absolutely right.
Just reading that dude's response dropped my IQ a bit.
>>
>>3199930
that's not your iq dropping, that's your brain seizing up a bit as you encounter a superior intellect.
>>
>>3197230
You don't remember KotC 1 accurately at all.
>>
>>3199956
Kek. This goy can bantz.
>>
>>3200020
I literally just beat it again a week ago. I'm sick of this board being full of liars and faggots that got bullied off of everywhere else.
>>
>>3200082
I literally just beat it again today. You're wrong about everything.
>>
>>3200090
In order
Ready against spell from enemy archers rarely matters because their attack bonuses are so low that they can't hit for shit at any point in the game and when they do hit, their damage is so low that you won't fail the Concentration check. And that's if they don't pull a retard move and ready against the wrong spellcaster, which happened constantly.
The encounters with giant piles of enemies that aggro all at once are LATEGAME. They're under the Fire Pits and under Norglade, which are thoroughly lategame areas. If you're eating Mind Blasts you have fucked up badly because they're not even in range to do it on round 1 and you have tools to remove giant packs of trash enemies instantly by that point.
The game is not meaningfully different from its earlier incarnations. If anything it was easier because the AI kept wasting time on pointless grapples.
Only one dragon in the game has enough SR to make Waves of Exhaustion unreliable when you want to use it on them. It's the final boss. Still a 65% chance.
Yes I can nuke on the first turn no matter how butthurt it makes you. It doesn't need savescumming either, literally just take Improved Initiative and don't have shit Dex on your Wizards.
>>
>>3191719
It's one of my favorite CRPGs to date.
>>
>>3199211
What about the Diablo mod?
https://mod.io/g/solasta/m/en-diablolasta
>>
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>tfw too greedy to sell any loot before maxing Appraise to 19, hence collecting all garbage and keeping it in barrels
>>
Anyone played other Greyhawk video games: "Dungeon & Dragons Tactics" (2007) and "Dungeon & Dragons: Heroes" (2003)?
Are they worth checking out?
>>
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>dudes these are just chickens, no need to worry, they can't blast a fireball at you, right?

R-RIGHT????
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GULP
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>>3200836
D&D Tactics was neat for being the only official 3E game with an implementation of psionics. It was otherwise a pretty mediocre game.
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>>3200836
i've never even heard of these games.
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>>3200907
>>3200909
<3
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You can do it chicken man
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>>3202760
I'm surely will.

Moathouse cleared.
Used Spike Stones on the corridor and then finished off the survivors with chicken charge attacks.
Spike Stones actually is such an underrated & OP spell. With the way AI behaves I think this spell can win you any combat against all possible enemies without SR.

Chicks are now Rogue level 3.
The first feat I took for all of them is Weapon Finewse. STR 5 and DEX 15 means taking this feat is the most obvious high priorty choice.
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Bumperino

I dropped ToEE a few months ago somewhere early in the temple, not sure why. Probably some general cRPG burnout

I'm thinking about installing the Circle of Eight modpack for my next run, does it have any drawbacks in comparison to vanilla? Is it recommended for beignners?
>>
>>3204555
Bro its great. Its a direct upgrade and improvement. Consider Temple+ also, very useful.
>>
>>3204555
>Is it recommended for beignners?
It is recommended for everyone. And also on top of Co8 install Temple+ mod as it fixes more bugs and still receives updates at least once per year. Both mods are fully compatible.

See: https://www.gog.com/forum/temple_of_elemental_evil/temple_of_elemental_evil_toee_mod_installation_guide_co8_portraits_temple/page1

>does it have any drawbacks in comparison to vanilla
There is literally no even a single reason to play vanilla. Co8 and Temple+ improve game experience from every possible standpoint. No critical bugs, better spell and item descriptions, fast traveling between temple levels, HD resolution support, disabled bullshit NPCs looting, disabled NPCs bullshit autoleveling and so on and so on.

Though the mods also provide some additional content.

Co8 adds:
- New Content (new locations) that can be deactivated during install. Even if you activated it, it's not mandatory for a playthrough. Just don't go into Welkwood Bog and Arena Of Heroes if you want a vanilla run. All other New Content locations are available only after completion of vanilla part of the game.
- Spells of 6-10 circles due to level cap being increased to 20. Also they added a few spells of lower circles like Warp Wood.
- Some extra non-mandatory quests in old locations

Temple+ adds:
- New feats
- New races
- New classes (prestige and non-core)

I often try to play ToEE as vanilla as possible. The tricky thing here sometimes is to distinguish what is vanilla content and what's not. If you're in doubt then check with Cltr+F:
- Vanilla: "Manual.pdf" in your game folder
- Co8: https://co8.org/community/threads/the-circle-of-eight-modpack-explained.7737/#post-104081
- Temple+ changelog: https://github.com/GrognardsFromHell/TemplePlus/wiki/Changelog
>>
Is "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde" mod playable? Never seen it being mentioned anywhere.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/shattered-gates-of-slaughtergarde
>>
Never played D&D but I played other games by Troika and loved them. I'd like to give ToEE a try but the DnD ruleset seems complicated. How do I get into it? Should I play something easier first like Icewind Dale?
>>
>>3206383
It was my first D&D experience when I was 15, it wasnt very complicated. The game has a built in manual containing any information you might need. I didnt have internet when it released and had alot of free time so actually hand copied the entire manual into comp books to read them at school lol
>>
>>3206383
A lot of us learned the 3rd ed rules (used by ToEE) as children or teenagers, they’re not that bad. They’re complex in the sense that there’s a lot of options and combinations, but they’re also less counter-intuitive than certain things in the previous rules, 2nd ed.

Icewind dale 1 uses 2nd ed rules, like Baldurs gate and Planescape and so on. Icewind dale 2 was originally designed for 2nd ed but late in development they tried cramming in sorta beta test 3rd ed rules at the last minute, since 3rd ed was about to come out, and so things are kinda clunky and partially implemented and somewhat homebrewed.

If you specifically want to learn 3rd ed rules to play ToEE id just play ToEE and ask any questions as you go. It’s fine if you have to restart a couple times with new characters, we all do it.
>>
>>3206383
ToEE is the opposite of games like Arcanum and Bloodlines so don't go in expecting that.
>>
>>3206383
>the DnD ruleset seems complicated
typical troika fan
>>
>>3206448
ToEE is similar to Arcanum in terms of ability to fuck a sheep in a brothel. Though in ToEE you can also make that sheep a member of your party.
>>
>>3206438
there's nothing counterintuitive about 2e. in fact its almost impossible to roll a bad character

3e isnt a complicated ruleset. no one says that. it's just bad. everything about it is bad. from save or dies, overoptimization, lack of balance, caster supremacy, trap options, poor scaling, hp bloat.

there is hardly anything good about it at all
>>
>>3207142
>caster supremacy
Martials are much stronger than casters in ToEE because it's capped at level 10. It's honestly probably the sickest game to play a rogue in ever made.
>>
>>3207142
It never bothered me, but some people struggle with THAC0 and negative armor classes.

I like the concept of feats added in 3rd ed. it’s fun to design builds and customize characters and specialize them. 2nd ed is more plain in this regard by comparison, the only thing really differentiating two characters of the same class and same level are their stats and weapon proficiencies. 5e is even worse, since the feats all suck and you’re actively encouraged to not take any and just dump points in your main stat.
>>
>>3207149
I do think that 2nd eds method of balancing martials vs casters by having different xp requirements is rather elegant and clever though
>>
>>3207148
commenting on 3e moreso than toee

>>3207149
agreed. 2e isn't counterintuitive though, except for thaco, which, if someone cannot do subtraction, they should probably kill themeselves anyway

>>3207150
this was the CORE of the balance. they completely threw it out for no reason at all. wizards is fucking retarded
>>
>>3207149
>It never bothered me, but some people struggle with THAC0 and negative armor classes.

I learned 3.5 originally, THAC0 and negative armor classes confused me for about 5 seconds. Now 2e is my favorite for simplicity, we play it table top instead of 3.5. (Never touched 4e and 5e because already own mountains of older books).

I dont get how people get hung up on 2e, its more or less the same math.
>>
>>3207148
No they are not.
>>
>>3207150
Come lvl.5 and casters destroy h2h classes. Not only in sheer power, but in plain fun as well. Fighter just rolls dices and waits for hits to fall, while doing math assignment figuring if it's better going for dexterity bonus or heavy armour. Casters have a million spells on their disposal, with some truly wonderful and overpowering combos down the line. Pathfinder system took that and gave it to hand to hand classes as well, with a myriad options and abilities, making it a complex and challenging universe for all involved. Only problem is that it's too complex for some. You can't just give a scrub a 18/00 fighter and have him quietly sit at the corner, while still contributing. He'll be lost in Pathfinder.
>>
>>3207330
they're brainlets. they literally are incapable of subtraction

>>3207343
pathfinder is one of the worst tabletop games ever made because it leans into all of the worst aspects of 3.x, useless errata, big numbers, rules lawyers, furries, ERP autists, terrible lore, player ego masturbation

if you like pathfinder I hope you catch cancer
>>
>>3207338
Yeah they are, a fully buffed martial with crafted gear is basically a God in toee.
>>
>>3207373
And how do you get buffs and crafted gear, again? Do those buffs and gear stop existing when you put them on a Cleric instead?
>>
>>3207375
>Do those buffs and gear stop existing when you put them on a Cleric instead?
A cleric have the density of martial feats a fighter or rogue does, what is the even implying?
>>
>>3207381
*A cleric doesn't have
>>
>>3207375
>And how do you get buffs
scrolls and potions that you can buy and find

>crafted gear
some of it you can find and buy
>>
>>3207381
Rogues don't get extra feats and the amount of combat feats that matter at the point where you're throwing around fully buffed characters with crafted gear begins and ends at Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Critical. The last one is the only one that the Fighter gets that the Cleric doesn't in ToEE with the level 10 cap. You should have tried using trippers as an argument, not this stupid bullshit.
>>
>>3207386
Fighter gets 10 feats. Cleric gets 5 feats and 2 of those need to go to crafting if you don't want to gimp your party. Why lie?
>>
>>3207395
You do not gimp the party by not taking crafting feats on a single spellcaster and that's still more than enough feats to get the ones that matter.
>>
>>3207407
>that's still more than enough feats to get the ones that matter.
They all matter. And there's no benefit to having 2 clerics in a party as it's not like buffs stack, assuming someone would be comfortable with having more than one of a class anyways. At best you could dip a cleric into berserker or something to get like a fraction of a fighter's power. And we're ignoring rogue entirely which can just stealth up behind things and basically skip entire fights late game by nuking big bads in 1 hit while also being a typical skill monkey.
>>
>>3207422
I don't think you understand how to play Clerics.
>>
>>3207425
Okay anon, great answer.
>>
>>3207601
It's true. If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have said something even half as retarded as what you did.
>>
Okay ToEEchads, the real question:
Do you like to go for Fragarach/Scather early or gimp yourself by not doing so?
>>
>>3209450
I don't use it at all.
>>
>>3209450
>go for Fragarach/Scather early
See no reason for not doing it unless I'm performing some specific challenge.
Overall completely clearing temple level 3 is much easier than level 2 so it makes sense to find it when you're somewhere in the middle of level 2.
It is also possible to get it when you're level 1 using your game knowledge before you encounter any combat though. Yep, this is way too early.
>>
>>3209450
I go for it only when I'm on the right floor.
>>
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About to start a temple + & CO8 with all the new content for the first time, really take a dive in this game, the first time I played pure vanilla I didn't give it an honest shot

I am just curious about level cap.. If I play the game with CO8's new content, does the game expect me to increase the cap over vanilla? Or should I keep it around 10? I just don't want to accidentally get too OP and completely steamroll late game enemies.

Also that guy doing chicken run, unfathomably based
>>
This is also one of those very rare quality threads about an actual good game on vRPG not completely ruined by zoomerfags, jarpig hentai addicts and other board contaminators
Just taking in a moment to appreciate that, it probably won't happen again any time soon
>>
>>3209890
You do realize almost certainly none of the people effort posting in this thread are regulars, right? When this whole thread started someone on /v/ was complaining /vrpg/ was too stupid to play ToEE and linking the board there. I'd reckon half of this thread is just /v/ oldfags, which is why it's not terrible.
>>
>>3209888
>If I play the game with CO8's new content, does the game expect me to increase the cap over vanilla?
Definitely yes. Most of the new content happens post-vanilla. And it makes less enjoyable if you stop gaining levels after completing only about 60% (or less) of the game with the new content.
Co8 also adds spells of 6-10 magic circles which implies to have level cap of 20.
Also with Temple+ you can increase level cap to 50. I haven't tested this myself yet but I think you need to run with less than 4 characters if you want eventually to get post-lvl20.
>>
>>3209888
>>3210195
However,
>I just don't want to accidentally get too OP and completely steamroll late game enemies.
Most of the new content combats felt too easy for me on levels 10+. But that doesn't mean the new content wasn't designed for levels 10+. It's just the way how it is balanced.
Note that the last quest is going to be challengable anyway no matter what level you will be.
>>
>>3210195
> to have level cap of 20.
Effectively there is a level cap of around 10-12 since CR calculations drive down xp for encounters eventually down to zero. That's unless you refuse to level and grind xp until you can get to 20. However, level 10 is still OP for the campaign.
>>
>>3210220
>Effectively there is a level cap of around 10-12 since CR calculations drive down xp for encounters eventually down to zero.
If we're are talking about Co8's New Content, then with a party of 8 PCs you can eventually get to level 15-16 (without grinding random encouners). The combats of New Content are against high CR enemies as well, so you're still gaining levels pretty fast.
>>
>>3196606
this is just flat out wrong. Every hard nwn module SEVERELY restricts rest and autistic shit like swordflight has absolutely ridiculous trash encounters that are THOUSANDS of hitpoints of garbage, each one with nearly anvoidable attacks like missile spam or unavoidable statuses

it is literally unplayable without minmaxing
>>
>>3210256
Swordflight absolutely fucking sucks as several classes and I guarantee you noone who jerks it off has tried to play it as something like a Ranger. If there's anything that highlights just how shittily balanced NWN is it's Swordflight.
>>
>>3209450
Years ago I always went straight for it, but when I returned for a playthrough early this year I didnt bother to even use it. Ran an evil group with the intention to copy Hedrack and Senshok or whatever the evil mage guy's name was. Crafted my own wacky gear.
>>
>>3209981
I am a regular and have many posts in this thread.. just dont normally post unless its games I like.
>>
>>3203019
Chickin Chaser... Do you chase chickins?
>>
>>3191719
it's stupidly niche and the only true appeal for the game is that if you really like the combat mechanics which apparently was true to the 3e system. I was surprised this was actually made by Troika since this was probably the blandest campaign they can come up with in terms of excecution.
>>
>>3210373
chapter 2 is great though, anyone who can tolerate nwn should play it at least that far

ranger is probably fine too, a little weaker than fighter but hardly any different
>>
4 Knights KotC1 is the actual fucking worst.
>>
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We need an update Chicken Man!
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>>3213401
completed most of the Nulb quests, postponed Imeryds Run
cleared all hostile creatures from Temple Level 1, postponed the ones that belong to earth temple (i don't want to trigger regrouping)
undeads were annoying because they are immune to sneak attacks, so chicken damage was 0-3 per attack

chicks are currently rogues level 4
druid is level 7 so no Animal Growth yet

i need more XP, so i'm going complete easy temple quests first, then do some easy encounters on level 2 and 3 prior to killing the temple leaders on level 1 and 2
>>
>>3213475
Would Animal Growth even be useful?
>>
>>3203019
>Colonel Sanders
my fucking sides
>>
>>3213592
not actually that much, just for memeing with giant chickens
though 4 points of additional damage, some more HP and increased melee range is a good buff
>>
>>3213630
I guess the extra CON would be useful. Comes at a -2 hit though.
>>
>>3210848
>the blandest campaign
The boss of the first dungeon is a homosexual cleric that keeps a giant crawdad as a pet. How is that not interesting?
>>
>>3213671
>homosexual
[citation needed]
>>
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>>3213688
>Lareth the Beautiful
>>
>>3213671
Not just any homosexual cleric, hes an insane lolth worshipper wot summons spiders.
>>3213688
Lolth clerics are supposed to be exclusively female, it's not exactly a secret.
>>
>>3213700
Fair enough.

>summons spiders
Would be cool if that was implemented as his unique domain power. Otherwise, in ToEE he is a cleric with no domain benefits.
>>
>>3213708
>Would be cool if that was implemented as his unique domain power
He does it in the moathouse fight.
>>
>>3213713
I know. But it's a scripted event that happens only in that fight. If you add him in your party, he doesn't have ability to do the same when you control him.
>>
>>3213721
Yeah, I guess they didn't bother to implement a summon spider spell since you can't make a lolth cleric anyways. That and I figure Lareth doesn't really give a shit about your party and is just phoning it in.
>>
>>3213475
Been saving your screen shots. ToEE is my favorite crpg and I've replayed so much since it released. Never ran a game as legendary as you are.
>>
First time player, should I stick with vanilla content or is the additional shit in Co8 worth playing?
>>
>>3214607
I would play vanilla first with maybe the bugfixes from Co8 or temple+ (I think temple+ is a purely bugfix mod, not exactly sure though). One of them completely changes the game with an assload of content and I think you'd appreciate them more if you saw how vanilla played originally.
>>
>>3214621
Co8 has a "standard edition", which is basically the original game with bug fixes as long as you leave options unaltered. (Default 6 char max party, level 10 cap) Probably the best way to get into ToEE. Lawful Good party with Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard/whatever/whatever if you're clueless, basically any party composition will do if you have like a "BG3 on tactician" tier understanding of DnD at least, it's not that complicated.
>>
>>3200907
>>3200909
Thank you chicken man. Reading these made me kek during some hard times.
>>
>>3214621
>>3214631
Thanks anons. I'm pretty much a total CRPG beginner.
>>
>>3214644
The most intimidating thing is the character creation honestly, once you have a party you're confident in then its smooth sailing and you'll learn a whole lot. Hommlet is pretty big so you might want to utilize the map feature and manually tag and label locations. Other than that not really much you need to know.
>>
>>3214644
Dont be afraid of failing and learning trough trial and error. 3rd edition dnd is basically that.
>>
>>3214644
1) be sure to follow recommendations (e.g. not use save/load during combat, disable quick saves and etc) from here https://www.gog.com/forum/temple_of_elemental_evil/temple_of_elemental_evil_toee_mod_installation_guide_co8_portraits_temple/page1 or here https://co8.org/community/threads/game-guide-walkthrough-for-the-circle-of-eight-modpack-new-content-edition.8742/
2) play tutorial
3) test every radial menu option to see how it works
4) always check the roll history to see why you miss or fail with a spell or abilitty
5) note that there is in-game guide and very comprehensive guide about game mechanics (without any spoilers) in your game folder in the file called "Manual.pdf"

then you'll be fine
>>
>>3214736
>e.g. not use save/load during combat
do saves still decay if you try to quicksave in combat? i remember that being a thing
>>
>>3215140
As in corrupt? I would imagine they do.
>>
>>3191719
Because it is literally unfinished broken garbage.
Only cultists shill that trash.
>>
>>3191763
>barely any story or dialogue
>dungeon crawler
>"It's a real RPG"
>>
>>3215162
Uh... ToEE has quite a lot of dialogue.
>>
>>3215161
>unfinished broken
install patches and play the game
>>
>>3215165
quite a lot of dialogue compared to what? Doom?
>>
>>3191726
>They care, you stupid retard.
Not OP, but why so hostile? Do you feel like you have to insult someone before people listen to you?
>>
>>3215275
Compared to every non-obsidian/bioware rpg.
>>
>>3193690
fake and gay
>>
>>3193751
what do you consider excellent RPGs then, faggot?
>>
>>3195972
For the those wondering: The forum is dragonsfoot.org.
>>
>>3205604
bump
>>
>>3195050
Unholy based
>>
You are the best chicken man. Please continue documentation of your adventure
>>
>>3214524
>>3214632
>>3217981
>>3218469
thank you all for the feedbacks, toeebros
didn't have a chance to play since last thursday, hopefully get some time tomorrow
>>
>>3218517
We must start a ToEE general in your honor as you progress if this thread dies.
>>
>>3218542
>if this thread dies
*Anonymous casts Death Ward!*
>>
>>3191976
Shhh... Shh...
*grabs you by the head and slowly pushes you down until you're at eye-level with my cock and balls*
You don't know what you're talking about...
*groans in pleasure as you begin to gently suckle my balls*
Now then...
*looks up to address the rest of the thread as anon slurps and slobbers on my ballsack*
The game's good. Works on my machine.
>>
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searching for killable little things on temple level 2
>>
>>3220213
Interesting projection. I may have triggered the trauma your uncle inflicted on you.
>>
>>3220316
Do you think the chickens have the potential to handle the harder fights later in the game?
>>
>>3220432
they can't wear items, so they will need all possible buffs
against high DR enemies the only hope is UMD
>>
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>No chickens allowed in Earth Temple!
Somehow they still regrouped even though I didn't kill any of their soldiers. I guess I shouldn't have been rescuing prisoners.
Now this one is gonna be harder, but luckily there is the long corridor. Perfect for Spike Growth + Spike Stones. Will postpone this fight anyway.
>>
It would be so much better if it was made to run for the actual system it was designed for.
>>
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>>3221397
You mean 5e? Yeah, I'd be down to replay ToEE in bg3's engine.
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who would have thought that a chicken can survive a hit from hill giant
>>
>>3221435
8/10 bait



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