Neverwinter Nights. The true goatWhat's your favorite modules? Builds?
>>2981490Tried to play this because it had coop, I don't think anyone had much fun because we did the prison level then never touched it or mentioned it again
>>2981521the OC definitely isn't fun multiplayer but you can say that about most CRPGs really. You're just waiting for someone to finish reading NPC dialogue most of the time. I'm sure there are online modules that are more designed for co-op though
>>2981521I played nwn multiplayer in 2002-2003. It was so good. The persistent worlds, pvp servers, erotic/non erotic chat hangout servers, DM's constantly creating new modules, having month long campaigns or one shots (and the ease of finding a game).Seriously after playing that I couldn't get myself play on roll20 it felt such a downgrade.
>>2981490Honor among ThievesAlmraivenTwilight/MidnightSoul ShakerRevenantVampire - Heaven Defied
>>2981490>Vanilla >Dwarf >Cleric
>>2981580Human Paladin for me
>>2981564Based picks. I need to try more that aren't in FR
>>2981593Is that shield supposed to be metal? Yet it has arrows sticking in it.
>>2981490Salerons Gambit.A Dance with Rogues (only the first one, the Sequel jumps off a cliff and takes a nosedive)Cormyrean Nights
>>2981490>og campaign>try wizard, rogue, druid, ranger>they all struggle hard without a tank for protection>try fighter>steamroll the gameHaving a one-man party was pretty bad for singleplayer. And no, companions are so weak they don't count
Something so comfy in the simplicity and aesthetics of nwn. Like the perfect medium for a D&D type story/module
>>2981601pointy metal moving at a high speed can actually pierce stationary, flat metal, believe it or not
Looks like on EE they added another module called Siege of Shadowdale to their curated content meme today. Never heard of it but it's made by Luke Scull
>>2981627Those arrows would shatter, anon. Nobody really used metal shields though, so maybe it's just painted to be shiny.
>>2981656That was a canceled premium module, along with Crimson Tides of Tethyr and Tyrants of the Moonsea.
>>2981656>>2981666are any of those good?
>>2981601those arrows are +1
>>2981521>>2981563I also had great days in nwn MP around its release. I suppose the player base for PWs in [current year]— such that it exists— would be a very different sort of matter, and if they're anything like the people running the nwn1wiki I wouldn't want to get anywhere near them
>>2981664not true, they specifically made arrowheads to pierce plates for crossbows later on which would pretty much do exactly like that picture(for armor tho)
>>2981755>not true>starts talking about something else entirelyok>>2981721That shield is at least +2 though.
>>2981685They were quite well made, I think. I don't remember much about them.
>>2981490Anyone played Swordflight here? Waiting till the final chapter comes out to play it myself.
You guys excited for TDN?
>>2981563>>2981749Right there with you NWNbros feels the likes of which will never come again I think.Esp. when you coded your own modules.>I made working dopplegangers for a module I was putting some serious work into.>People came in from other servers to pvp me (I was just testing and forgot I left the port open) and I cloned their own character and killed them with it while they freaked out in shock.>Looked through their pockets at their cringey ERP quest items from other servers.>I was in shock that my own function could replicate items from some other server.
>>2981785Do you realize that you are a gigantic faggot? If a real crossbow can do that, then a high str archer in fantasy setting can also. The wooden arrows would NOT(and do not) shatter on contact.
Being completely honest all the user modules are extremely clearly user modules often made by fairly young people who aren't very good at writing.The worst example would be A Dance with Rogues, how people think that literal *touches ur boob and licks his lips* tier writing is good baffles me to this day, even as an adaption of the genre of bodice rippers it completely fails.
>>2981614>wizard, druid>they all struggle hard without a tank for protectionAnon, what the fuck are you doing? They are both hardcarried by summons in the early game, and druid has a few actually strong animal companions with unlimited healing out of combat. Familiars fall off quicker than animal companions, but some of them are pretty decent in combat - one of the dragons gets improved invisibility at the first ficking level.
>>2981923>use summon>instantly lose 33% of all XP from enemies>this stacks directly in proportion to the amount of summons/henchmen out
>>2982002It is kinda true. You do sound like a gigantic faggot.
>>2982046>thinks his inner voice while reading my true posts sounds like a gigantic faggotDon't be so hard on yourself, you can't help being born with a falsetto and lisp.
>>2981530>You're just waiting for someone to finish reading NPC dialogue most of the time.You're supposed to get shitfaced and read the dialogue out loud over mic, with expression.
>>2981601no stupidobviously there are no signs of arrows doing the penetration, no dents near the shaft, no damage from arrowheads, just clean surfaceobviously arrows are an integral part of the shield and were built into itwhy?because it looks cool
>>2982061Ah, I get it, he's really a huge coward and immediately runs away from the battle, but installed these arrows to make it seem like he was actually fighting.
>>2981934This is complete BS too because class features aren't supposed to count against your CR like that.
>>2981564Very good taste in modules.
>>2981610>A Dance with RoguesSadly everyone always focuses on the smut part rather than the fact it's a very good Rogue-centric module.
>>2981564>Twilight/MidnightAt least warn people that Dawn was never made and probably will never be made.
>>2981490I still have no idea why lilura removed complete list of modules from her blog. It's indispensable and fortunately not out of date.https://web.archive.org/web/20181107234219/https://lilura1.blogspot.com/2017/12/Core-Neverwinter-Nights-Adventure-Modules-and-Campaigns.html
>>2981490Should I buy neverwinter nights EE or baldur's gate 1 EE if I've never played either of them
>>2981804I want TDN to be good, but it looks overbloated as fuck. I feel like every month or so I hear about some whacky new feature that the devs got excited about, abandoning the previous features.That's reflected in the area design too. It looks very detailed and it can make some great looking screenshots, but when it's actually in motion it feels so cluttered and overdone.At this point I'm convinced it's never actually going to come out.
>>2982225 Baldur's Gate is the better game "out of the box"NWN's main draw is the toolset for players to build and share their own modules. The campaign it shipped with isn't particularly good.But if you want my advice I'd say pirate both and see which you prefer.
>>2982225Get the non-EE of them for free from gog-games.com
>>2982122I know.The smut is like sugary sprinkles on top of a cake. Some people like it, some people find it cringe.The amount of work that went into writing characters, quests, scripts is mindboggling. All of the sidequests have multiple ways of completing them, certain quests become easier/harder based on how you approach them and even if certain quests in the main questline do not allow for the same flexibility as the side-quests it never feels like you're getting railroaded.This is shit that takes fucking skill to write.
>>2982158>>2981795Is lilura the only one that played Swordflight?
>>2982663I played it and it's... Okay. I personally don't like having to babysit the retarded OC donut steel protagonist of the game as her sidekick, but if you like challenging encounters in the 3e d&d ruleset I guess you can get something out of it.
>>2982721The OC stuff sucks. I heard a lot of stuff about class reactivity and roleplay but I suppose its bread and butter is combat and resource management huh
>>2982800>I heard a lot of stuff about class reactivity and roleplayYeah sure, it does have some class locked quests but it's so damn long that unless you're enamored with it you won't really see the class reactivity. And if you do, it's basically one sidequest being available instead of an other.For a fan made module that's obviously a great achievement, but if you want a module that is really built around a specific class/character archetype go play that instead.
>>2981490Quick question, do i need to set up a server (port forward etc) to play NWN Enhanced Edition with a friend?It's the steam version.
>>2982811It also has a lot of skill reactivity - but most skill checks rather quickly become very formulatic. Tracks that lead to a druid treasure x100, invisible chests with acrane treasure x100, rogue-only locks x100, turn undead-only doors x100, the same STR checks to move some rubble with the same minor treasure x100.
>>2981563>roll20 is more popular than nwn module makerits so surprising. people will pay for a trash website to play dnd when theres a perfectly usable 3D module maker with assets premade and with ton of OC created over the years, its so strangeHOW is a janky rpg with a 3D campaign maker less known than a shitty website that overcharges you and steals your information
>>2982851They want to playa a tabletop game online, not an online video game based on the tabletop gamethat being said, you don't need anything more than a group call software like discord, which is free.
>>2982851>paying for roll20lmao whatIt's a decent digital table where you have a good selection of digital character sheets for your game of choice (and not just DnD and DnD-like games). No need to pay a dime for that, simply login join/create a campaign and you're set.
Is there a good PRC-using PW available for the EE? There are some modules using the PRC available but those seem to be old abandoned PWs that were just updated for PRC use and are merely being hosted instead of properly maintained.
>>2982128No. They should share my pain.
>>2982158I like Lilura's blog but her (his?) love of Swordflight is bizarre. It's a well-crafted module, sure, but needlessly difficult and can be a complete slog at times. Also, Chapter II is easily the peak of the series to a point where I would tell people to play Chapter I just to get to Chapter II and drop it (unless you really, really want more).
>>2983139I prefer chapter 1 - it's short, linear, focused and combat encounters/itemization are deliberately designed thanks to that. Even chapter 2 is already too big for its own good and often turns into a slog, but at least it doesn't yet have the worst part of the series - portals to other planes.
>>2982128>At least warn people that Dawn was never made and probably will never be made.Then you should know that Almraiven also never got the second sequel. It's still more than worth playing.
Never played NN or DnD 3.X, what's a fun build that I can take through the "good" campaigns?
>>2983703Full cleric. After you learn the system you might try some exotic mix and match but before that, stick to the simple and effective.
>>2983720Is the default cleric package good enough or do I need to configure it?
>>2983703Any cleric. Caster build can still fight in melee fairly well with buffs, melee build still has broken shit like Harm and Word of Faith that doesn't care about your WIS. There is also a choice between wearing heavy armor, or going LN to dip into monk - depending on how much WIS you have for monk AC, and how much STR do you have to carry the heaviest shit possible. And there is also a strong DEX build with shadowdancer.If you're going to play Aielund Saga, I would heavily recommend a bard. This module nerfs and sometimes buffs a bunch of shit - mostly magic (all changes are not documented ingame due to coding issues, so you'll have to check the .txt file), but makes bard incredibly good. You get to do everything - buff, debuff with Curse Song and Taunt, tank, knockdown enemies, kick asses in melee and blast with magic staves and scrolls. Itemization for a bard is heavily biased toward rapiers - both in good weapons and gloves with free feats, though I ended up using the endgame dagger with +10 vampiric healing.
>>2983727No. Human, 16 STR 10 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA, take Power Attack/Cleave for your first level feats. Raise Concentration and Lore and whatever social skill you want. Take Extend Spell at 3rd. Every 4th level put your stat point into WIS. You now have a Cleric that's strong from 1-40 with zero effort.
>>2983727I fine tune it depending what I intend to do with the character and which module I play but if you have no idea what you are doing, a default cleric will do. The class itself is so broken that you need to intentionally gimp yourself if you want to be useless. Just remember that multi classing is not recommended for new players.
>>2983734>>2983741Alright, thank you!
>>2983139Because Lilura is a grognard that loves BG1 and JA2, you should have figured this out already
>>2983763lol, this is funny to me because I'm so old that calling someone who liked RTwP a grognard feels off.
>>2983741Very bad advise>16 STR 10 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 10 CHAWhy the fuck would you take 10 CHA? You either take 8 CHA or at least 14 CHA. High CHA builds is if you want to use the Divine Might feat and splash a Paladin level for save throws bonuses. 8 CHA otherwise. There is no sane reason for values inbetween.>take Power Attack/Cleave for your first level feats. Take Extend Spell at 3rd.This will only allow you to equip shitty simple weapons. You either take Martial Weapons at level 1 or Exotic Weapons at level 3 or you throw in an early Fighter or Paladin level which also gives Martial Weapon feat.>Raise Concentration and Lore and whatever social skill you want.Both of those skills are uneeded. Concentratiation doesn't matter since Clerics cast their spells before battles and Lore is a useless skill as Identifying stuff in the stores is cheap. Instead absolutely every character needs Tumble and Spellcraft. Tumble gives free AC that stacks with all other AC bonuses and Spellcraft improves savethrows.>You now have a Cleric that's strong from 1-40 with zero effort.No, a pure Cleric becomes shit during epic levels. Cleric levelups have almost no benefits after level 17 and the game will lock you out of the 4th base attack if you don't reach at least 16 BAB at level 20. The "turd levelups" of Cleric where it doesn't get an extra BAB are at 1,5,9,13 and 17. You absolutely need to splash at least 4 levels of either Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin or Champion of Torm before level 20 to reach 16 BAB if you want to play epic campaigns with a Cleric.
>>2983943>Cleric levelups have almost no benefits after level 17Enjoy never landing any of the Cleric's massively bullshit spells against anything with spell resistance ever.>and the game will lock you out of the 4th base attack if you don't reach at least 16 BAB at level 20Cast Divine Power.
>>2983703>Never played NN or DnD 3.X, what's a fun build that I can take through the "good" campaigns?Druid. Animal companion and summons will carry your through pretty much everything. You can dip a level in monk if you want to be a bear that knows kung-fu, otherwise just go straight druid. Their spell list is pretty great.
>>2983943A cleric that doesn't keep attack spells leveling up during 21-40 is nothing more than a shabby fighter. I think you should have just taken 17 fighter levels instead. Bringing penetration + DC along especially for stuff like implosion, barrier, faith is why people say clerics are such bastards.That said, so what about powerbuilding. The last cleric I made was pure wisdom+charisma with skills for RP and ended up with planar turning. She could turn undead, vermin, elementals, and outsiders. Basically by accident, half the enemies in the game just exploded on sight.
>>2985235>nothing more than a shabby fighterYou can buff yourself so much that a fighter of the same level gets snapped in half.
>>2982122speaking of which is rogue THE worst class in the game unless content is built specifically for it? I remember it drove me crazy in the campaign when A) not only was everything of note immune to sneak attacks, but also B) there was jack shit worth stealing and you could just get a henchman to handle lockpicking + disarming. at the end of the day rogue was gimped fighter with no AC to save his ass.
>>2983943Besides mentioning Spellcraft, this is the most soulless minmaxer post I've seen in a while. Not to mention>No, a pure Cleric becomes shit during epic levelsYes, I also hate dealing stackable 120 damage per round, exploding bosses with Harm/Heal, blinding anything with no save, silencing with no save, and instakilling even enemies with death immunity. All of that instantly turns into shit the moment you decide to go for a higher caster level.
>>2985280Rogue has UMD. That counts for something.
>>2985285And tumble for AC. One of the reasons that some classes dip into rogue are these great skills.
>>2984795>You can dip a level in monk if you want to be a bear that knows kung-fu, otherwise just go straight druidDepending on difficulty of the module, dipping into a monk might be crucial. It could turn absolutely miserable experience into a fun playthrough.>Their spell list is pretty greatOn the higher levels, when you start getting actually gamechanging spells. Before that, you buff your bear/boar and bandage its ass every round.Cleric's spell list is much better overall, but druid's job is to stun the whole battlefield and he does it slendidly.
>>2985235>>2985270>You can buff yourself so much that a fighter of the same lev-*Knockdown*-ACK!
I've been playing Wyvern Crown of Cormyr for the first timeIt's a lot of fun, but very buggy
>>2985280I would like to congratulate you for having the most retarded take on /vrpg/ right now.
>>2985405At least his take contains some reason while yours is 100% snark.
>>2985280like the others said, rogue gets tumble, umd, and plenty of skill points to spare. multiclassing into fighter for 4 levels is also a good boost to the rogue for straight combat
>>2985280I'll be honest, the only time I've played a rogue was for A Dance With Rogues. Honestly some of the most fun I ever had with NWN but of course there's a ton of content built specifically for them. I reckon it'd be pretty viable in most games if you pick up a level of Shadowdancer for HiPS.
I saw A Dance With Rogues posted offhandedly in a /v/ thread one day and got interested in it after I read about it, downloaded it along with NWN(never played the game or any modules ever) expecting a good coom and got genuinely one of the best RPGs I have ever played. Dozens of hours of content, quests have multiple different methods of resolution with lots of skill checks determining which route you take through a quest, every house you can break into has something unique in it, secrets everywhere, lots of ways to roleplay since you're given lots of different dialogue options, it fucking blew me away. Also this module is totally a female power fantasy, because when you dye your hair your friends actually notice and compliment you on it. Very unrealistic. >>2981914I thought the smut was pretty good as far as erotica goes, but I did play the EE version which supposedly updated the writing. I loved how in most cases the smut is just another tool in your thief's arsenal, and you can merely use it as a means to beguile people, steal and do rogue shit.
>>2985572I first spoke to my high school gf because I caught her playing that on one of the school computers. Didn't know it was a smut module (didn't even know NWN had user modules you could download). Hell of a surprise when I started to play it.
>>2985588Did you ever find out if she fucked the hobos on her playthrough?
>>2985280Ignore the two idiots seething in their replies to you, Rogue is objectively the worst class in the game. Its sole utility is in multiclassing into it to get skills; almost every single monster in the OC content, the expansions as well as most player modules is immune to sneak attacks. UMD is nice but in no way makes up for what are basically dead levels if you're trying to play primarily as a rogue.
>>2985572I have no idea how the EE is, last I heard a year ago it was extremely buggy compared to the original. It also doesn't have support for Part 2 of the module.
>>2985681I've been playing the version of ADWR that just released a couple months ago. I've only seen a couple of bugs, nothing gamebreaking though. Overall I'm extremely pleased with the quality of it. >It also doesn't have support for Part 2 of the module.This definitely kills me. The EE version for Part 2 probably won't come out for a very long time.
>>2985778The best part is that how thick she is depends on her CON score. Now that's technology.
>>2985789The amount of freedom NWN's scripting has is great.
>>2985300>you buff your bear/boar and bandage its ass every roundNot him, but this is why I have stopped even trying to use anything but panthers. They don't hit for a lot unless they can backstab sometimes, but their staying power is pretty good with some buffs so they can distract enemies for a long time.
>>2985280I've easily soloed NWN's Tomb of Horrors adaptation with a rogue. That fucker just refused to get hit, kept re-rolling everything if it somehow got hit and just refused to die in general. While wearing something completely ridiculous, like some monk-restricted stuff, some blackguard too I think. UMD is absolutely busted in the long term.
>>2985681>>2985689> It also doesn't have support for Part 2 of the module.Which isn't a big loss because Part 2 is.. bad.Like, it has a few good moments but its such a massive downgrade from Part 1 that I couldn't believe it.
>>2985675You don't really need sneak attack when you can facetank with tons of ac and be a semi-caster with umd
>>2986263But enough about bard.
Am I missing anything graphics wise?
>>2981490NWN was made and released just two years too early. It would still be thriving today if it had exactly the same design philosophy but had been released in 2004-2005 with all the assumed tech upgrades.
>>2982158You see lilura1 is well known to be an idiot with severe mental illness. The blog got popular because of google images and lists of links. They're obsessed with being seen as an rpg authority but the nwn community is impenetrable to them since everyone is concerned with stuff lilura1 has no clue about. I would just assume things got deleted as some kind of revenge because an nwn modder ignored them once.
>>2986412>but the nwn community is impenetrable to them since everyone is concerned with stuff lilura1 has no clue about.Anything specific you mean?
>>2985603>Did you ever find out if she fucked the hobos on her playthrough?Nah, she said she reloaded when anything too gross happened. Note, violent rape was apparently not gross.
>>2986397>enhanced edition>steam>graphical modspure onions
>>2986600Beamdog's only EE worth having is PS:T, and that's because they actually improved the game's UI.
>>2986615Ridiculous, the NWN:EE is almost like a whole new game if you know how to mod.
>>2986687the EE is vastly inferior to the modded original
>>2986688It isn't though.
>>2986687>know how to mod.You mean use the same mods that the regular game can also use?
I tried the new ADwR EE version and it seems like it runs worse. Valine added in way too many NPCs in the city, the stutter when they spawn is annoying as fuck.
>>2986700Diamond and EE mods are not always cross compatible. EE has more features.
>>2986708The same mods that exist for ee also exist for diamond. So the "more features" doesn't matter.
>>2986721dude, you're retarded, there are a tons of mod that don't work with the EE
>>2986688 That doesn't even make sense, anon.>>2986700 EE not only supports graphical enhancements like normal maps and all sorts of other maps (for textures), but also includes script features like GetObjectVisualTransform(), which allows scripters to move placeables around, change their scale, etc by script alone. Although I'm not sure if there are demos of this functionality on the Neverwinter Vault, these are powerful functional additions to the game that pre-EE simply wasn't capable of.
>>2986747There are EE mods that don't work on Diamond.
>>2986687I would not say it's a whole new game, now that would be a ridiculous claim, but it does have a technical edge over the previous version. The problem is that it's not really exploited and nobody has the energy to make sensible mods. Look at what is happening with the CEP, it's mired in politics and fussing over old and outdated assets. Other advances are nice but many could have been achieved with the client extender, like the classes and spellbooks, normal maps and so on too. The NUI framework is a mess and while it has potential it's not really used for anything interesting. It's like you have the choice between a regular pizza or some restaurant food but it's made with off-brand super market products. Take the new prospective update which addresses many issues that were known issues for about five years, then consider the rest they're not addressing yet. So to say it's a completely superior new game if only someone unlocked the modding potential is like the nonsense people used to say about NWN2.
>>2986755Visual transforms don't move objects, they displace the visual of the object from the origin of the object. If you don't know the difference or think there is no effective difference then shut the fuck up.
>>2986755NWNCX for instance, EE is also tends to be not compatible with camera or ai mods
>>2985789By far my favorite feature. In 2.0, you can dump stats to get to 17 CON, and have the Princess with tits the size of her head.You get a lot of comments, though not enough.>>2985791A lot of work had to go into it. How it works is that at start you get a character flag depending on CON. And *every single* wearable has different models for bust sizes. When you get new equipment, it changes into one that "would fit"
>>2986763Name them. Seriously, I want to know. Actual community made modules and not whatever Beamdog hired out to develop.
>>2981601those are bolts with sharp tips and they're fired at extremely high velocity.
>>2985280exactly, the rogue is hard mode. also, remember that there was a beautiful nwn.bioware.com website that "got hacked" and """had to be taken down forever"""
I suggest Shadowlords, Dreamcatcher, and Demon ( a trilogy of mods)
>>2987884PRC has a Diamond version, Stay losing Beamniggers
>>2987893Which is not the same as the EE version.
>>29828284 days later now, i bought a copy for my friend to try it and luckly the answer is yes.
>>2988004NTA but it still sucks, PRC is junk and nobody uses it except single player autists. But are the differences really significant? No, they are not.
>>2988097Yeah they are.
>>2985280Rogue relies the most out of any class on level design or a DM. In NWN none of the NPCs have anything worth pickpocketing even in modules. The campaigns have you fight tons of undead which were immune to rogue skills. The most you get is traps which are more a nuisance than anything and everyone just grabs Tommy for them in the OC. Bioware really dropped the ball in setting an example for rogues and it set a president in the community.>>2985675The 1 saving grace for Rogue was in multiplayer PVP if you multiclassed with the rogue skills it was pretty busted. Crippling strike and another skill (I think it was defensive roll) made it worth trading 13 levels or whatever to get both of them. I don't think anyone got Rogue for UMD alone like those dipshits are saying, they always went with Bard unless they specifically wanted those rogue feats.This is also on servers that disable dev crit, because if dev crit is in then everyone either goes some weird pale master hybrid or a dev crit build.
>>2987341>also, remember that there was a beautiful nwn.bioware.com website that "got hacked" and """had to be taken down forever"""Bioware got bought out by EA and EA merged the Bioware forums into the EA forums killing the website.
>>2988097>PRC is junk and nobody uses it except single player autistsYou are right that too few people use it but calling it junk is ridiculous.
A Dance with Rogues
So can I just jump into custom modules or is it better to play the main campaign first to get an idea of how to play?
>>2988271You can probably play the academy level of the main campaign if you want the tutorial. Not sure what you would gain by playing the whole OC though.
>>2988282Fun?He might have Fun? I know that most of the people here hate fun with a passion but the OC aint that bad unless youre a zoomer with the attention-span of a mayfly.
>>2988323t. shit slurping millenial biotard
>>2988323>the OC aint that bad unless youre a zoomer with the attention-span of a mayfly.You're just blindly regurgitating sayings you've seen around this board without any idea what they actually mean. You probably haven't even played this game at all.
>>2988325Even millennials hated the OC. We hated NWN2 when it came out too.
>>2985280>>2985457>>2985675>>2987341>>2988143>all those dopamine-addled zoomers bitching about rogues because they play the class wrongThe Rogue is the quintessential adventurer. You can literally be prepared for anything and counter anything even more than Caster-Classes like Wizards or Clerics. Grab a tanky henchman like a barbarian, fighter or cleric and go to town. Your opponent is a tanky monster or a fighter?Sneakattacks, Potions of Invisibility, scrolls of invisibility (thanks to UMD), baiting him into getting Flatfooted by disengaging and your Tumble.Your opponents are undead? Time to use the Traps youve been hoarding (if you disarm traps instead of revoering them you're a retard. Oh the Undead surprised you because youve rushed into a room? Why werent you sneaking to scout what is around the corner?Oh you dont have any traps anymore? Time to put Scrolls and Wands of Summoning youve been collecting to use. Youre fighting a mage and he has True Sight on?Again, UMD is your friend. Scrolls of Dispel Magic and/or Breach will fuck him up and there goes his Stoneskin, Truesight and Mestils Acid Sheath.Playing a Rogue is all about being prepared, if you are YOLOoing from mob to mob while jerking off to big dmg numbers youre a zoomer-shitter and the class isnt for you.
>>2988330that's why i put the biotard qualifier, millennial is just there because he's obsessed with zoomers
>>2988325>>2988330>>2988329Thanks for confirming that Im right.>You're just blindly regurgitating sayings you've seen around this board without any idea what they actually meanHow is the irony of what youve said not killing you. Are you some sort of NPC without self-awareness?>You probably haven't even played this game at all.See Pic related. Now please move the goalpost after your projection failed so I can continue to laugh at you.
>>2988348Zoomer seething that described him to a t.
>>2988348To be fair, you people are the cancer that is killing RPGs.
>>2988350lol, i was 22 when the oc was released, haven't ever played past the second chapter and i have hundreds of hours in nwn. you slurp shit, anon, and that's okay, be yourself, just don't make proclamations of theories that highlight your particular inadequacies.
>>2988340Scrolls of Dispel Magic are the worst strategy possible and you don't know how dispels work if you disagree.
>>2988354nah, you kids fucked the pooch waaaaay before the zoomies did.
>>2988355>>2988358>just don't make proclamations of theories that highlight your particular inadequacies.Oh the irony.>you slurp shitSounds like you would know.>lol, i was 22 when the oc was releasedI dont believe you.>haven't ever played past the second chapterThis on the other hand I do believe you, you do sound like you are just repeating what others tell you without playing it yourself.>nah, you kids fucked the pooch waaaaay before the zoomies did.Already told you I dont believe you so your larp is kinda gay.>>2988357Scrolls of Dispel work great and if you disagree and reply to this post your mother will die in your sleep tonight.
>>2988165It really isn't. No serious server uses it, even back in the old NWN and even on servers that had the client extender. There are reasons of course, because the implementations are bad and any modder would really have to question if they agree with the implementation decisions. In which case they would make so many adjustments that they might as well make their own, they would still curate it regardless, so you wouldn't miss the supposed variety. On the point of variety, because the implementations are so half-assed there isn't so much variety that it actually warrants taking up as many of the limited 2da lines as it does. So when I say it's junk I do mean it's junk. But one person's junk is another's treasure and if you're an autist that just wants to summon a bunch of giant zombies without care for mechanical details or whatever then it probably seems like a treasure.>>2988118Nah, they're not. But don't worry because you don't understand and I do. As others have already pointed out what was achievable with modding before EE, it just made it more built-in, not that it fixes the broader issues with PRC either.
>>2988271I'd play the main campaign first. It's good fun.
Tell me about Neverwinter NightsIt looks interesting and the community is still alive and makes contentShould I buy it?
>>2988453Psionics, shifter (pnp) and the PRC spellbooks are anything but half-assed in opinion, they are impressive workarounds but suit yourself, not like the pretentious autists running the "serious servers" will change after so many years.
>>2988453There is literally an entire magic system in it that did not exist pre-EE and two dozen patches worth of bugfixes.
>>2988474They're definitely half-assed. The psionics in particular is such a terrible waste of an implementation. It's no wonder nobody lifts it from PRC. The spell books were trash before EE and they're only so-so with EE only because it's now built-in (what you could do with CX before), which is what I said. It does not mean you couldn't have done it before, you could, but now it's built-in just do your own. It doesn't take much time to do stuff like the assassin and blackguard spell list, and you can just make better implementations for more complicated classes. Nobody uses it because it's trash and it clutters up what you could do, which is why only autists that don't care about modding use it. In reality it's honestly one of the most garbage filled projects that exist. Even NWN2 had better class packs like Kaedrin's class package that actually go more usage in that community by modders and players alike.
>>2988485I only care about modding at this point. I stopped being player-brained over a decade ago so your comments make no sense to me.
>>2988493>They're definitely half-assed. The psionics in particular is such a terrible waste of an implementation. It's no wonder nobody lifts it from PRC.Yeah, you don't know what you are talking about.
>>2988471No, whenever you see scavenged IP like this, you should pirate it, especially if it has a GOG installer.
>>2988501And you do. Because I only worked with psionic class mods, but you played a bunch by yourself and have strong opinions. I absolutely do not doubt that (You) had fun with it and (You) were impressed by it. All I can say is that yours is an opinion not shared by many modders and pw creators for reasons you can either accept or refuse to comprehend.
>>2988495Then shut the fuck up.
>>2988518Just stop engaging with him, anon, he wants to shit up the thread and make it all about him. Just ignore him.
>>2988518>>2988520You guys are so stupid. I am just commenting on things that you don't understand and I do. I've never denied your enjoyment of the OC or some megapack mod or other shit. Have fun, but if you want to engage in this kind of discussion then step up or shut the fuck up yourselves.
>>2988493Kaedrin's is genuinely very good, though it breaks incredibly easy vanilla NWN2 even harder.
>>2988525Yeah, Kaedrin's is a pretty good and well curated pack. Even if one were to disagree with some of his design decisions it's clear that he was technically skilled and lots of work went into making each class seem like it could have been official. Unfortunately he stopped being so open towards the end and didn't want his own work altered by other mods or servers.
>>2988514>Because I only worked with psionic class modsWhich ones?
>>2988523>There is literally a magic system in EE PRC that was not in Diamond PRC>hurf durf there's no difference between the two! I don't care because I don't play the game!Sit on a dick and spin you retarded faggot.
>>2988004Yeah but the best version of PRC (PRC Lite) is Diamond exclusive
>>2988323>unless youre a zoomer with the attention-span of a mayfly.You don't even need to read what the NPCs say lol. When I played it as a kid I just mindlessly ran around killing monsters and only got stuck on chapter 3 for a while because you have to talk to one chick in the inn to go inside a well for some reason. Just fucking mash random buttons in every chat menu. Every chapter just run to each 4 corners of the map and deal with some bland dungeon tied to some random group of NPCs like the tribe dying of small pox. I've played the OC multiple times the only memorable moments I remember is the ghost town that's stuck in a timeloop, the time you have to kill yourself to get into a forest's dream or whatever, and.. uh... uh... I guess Arebeth betrays everyone? Her character was so boring I literally never gave a shit. >>2988357I'm convinced this retard defending absolutely everything about the game is just the same contrarian baiting for (you)s
>>2988567NTA you really don't disprove the point.
>>2988695>NTA you really don't disprove the point.That pretentious twat hasn't made anything but baseless claims.
>>2988716Arelith developed their own magic system too and it's also shit.
>>2988792Arelith seemed cool until I realized if you weren't in one of the meta skype circlejerks you wouldn't get in on any of the interesting shit.
>>2988801As someone that appreciates the reasoning behind pnp rules I dislike servers like that which deviate so much based on ideas from worse designers.
>>2988909Oh fuck it's this autist.
>>2988994No idea who you are talking about.
>>2989155Last time there was an NWN thread someone was talking about starting a /vrpg/ server and modding it to hell and back. Them some autistic retard derailed the whole thing. He went on a huge tirade about how pnp rules are basically perfect and anyone who tries to deviate it is an idiot because they aren't mathematicians or some schitzo shit. Then another idiot was ranting about how the server should be GURPs if it wanted to be RP heavy and D&D isn't for RP, but honestly it was probably the same person.
>>2989177Honestly no idea, there are multiple people that come into these threads at different times. The first one sounds right because honestly most server admins and scripters aren't good at game design. If you have someone trying to take over a project or server to force everyone to play their special homebrew modified rules it's probably going to be shit.
>>2989185Yeah but the standard package NWN experience, and to a greater extent D&D experience, is complete dogshit and the best servers were always ones like Antiworld.
>>2989189I would play a server that had a prc like force missile mage, or ritual casting, or sanity and corruption mechanics, or flaws, or even a pathfinder rules conversion.I would not play Risenholm 2.0.Simple as.
>>2988695PRC EE has Binding.PRC Diamond does not.
>>2989185>The first one sounds right because honestly most server admins and scripters aren't good at game design.The 3E dev team wasn't good at game design either. Neither was Bioware.
>>2989208And what is your point though?
>>2989213Sounds like the autist is you. I'm not going to waste time like other people on arguing with you playing games you hate. That's where I draw the line in trying to reason with people or trying to understand them.
>>2989208You could also make that with just feats and scripting which is nothing new. So it seems to undermine the point of contention, unless you got confused and forgot what point you were trying to make.
>>2989219>I'm not going to waste time like other people on arguing with you playing games you hateThe whole reason to play NWN is to mod it. You're the only one objecting to this.
>>2989219I enjoy NWN but you'd have to be retarded to think it's well designed.
>>2989223Where did I object? I didn't.
>>2989234Here >>2988909 >>2989185
>>2989237I mean you seem to think that I have authority to tell you what to do and what to think, worse my mere opinion is the guideline for how your should live. Okay, anon.
>>2988340>schizo can't come up with an actual argument so starts seething about zoomersIt's like clockwork for NPCs.
>>2989241>I just got 'got' and now I'm going to try and somehow get an own in to not look retardedkek
My only input on the PRC debate going on is that something like 80% of the classes and shit added in was not even implemented in a functioning way.It turned out that most classes were not added to NWN 1 for a reason: Their are either completely useless and underpowered (the majority of PRC classes) or broken being comprehension in terms of balance (the loltier Lich ones). Also installing the fucking PRC has only gotten to be more of a nightmare as time has gone by, the instructions on their site have not been updated in like 10 years and even getting the pack to function is a dice roll.
>>2989248Just because I don't want to play shitty and unoriginal homebrew that doesn't mean you don't have to. That's the whole point of freedom. If you didn't understand that then I don't know what to tell you, you're more retarded than I thought.
>>2989256Case in point really. The lich one is one of the ones that isn't based on source material iirc.
>>2989223>>2989237>>2989248What is hard to understand? If you can make a genuinely original and fun mod then it might be interesting to play. If you can make a mod that is not completely incoherent with the basic mechanics then it's probably playable. You're the only one talking about objections and forcing a strawman argument of no mods ever vs all mods are beautiful. I dunno man, maybe you should just chill the fuck out and stop being autistic.
>has the most accessible and powerful toolset which 1 person can by themselves use to create reasonably great content>only like 3 people will play it even if you release some GOAT thing that exceeds the best modules in complexity and fun due to the community being fucking deadHow has nobody ever attempts to make a modern equivalent of the NWN kit?
Any modules that don't penalize you for picking evil choices? Tired of evil aligned characters always being designed with a focus on redemption.
>>2989287I understand the problems with Solasta, but I've seen nobody talk about Larian's Divinity Engine. Can anyone with experience tell us what's wrong with it or why no one uses it? Do they just not want to use Divinity systems?If so then Larian should update their engine with BG3 systems. I'm sure that could become the next NWN.
>>2989328Difficult to use.
>>2989287Probably because the current community has so many schizos and leeches, just look at the current thread and the credits list for the next upcoming update. If you were going to make a modern equivalent of NWN you would get swamped with that kind of attention which would be over-represented since it would not be popular from the start. Companies that have had some toolsets like >>2989328 and that other cancelled game all attracted these people, so did the Pathfinder devs to a lesser extent.If you're not a hobbyist but a company then your problem is usually about IP, licensing, and the modern dislike for letting users have so much freedom. You can create content, but they either won't make it easy and give you everything to support you, or they will restrict you so you can only create mods in their defined playground. The other problem is that so many games are released each year now that the audiences have a short attention span and don't dig deep enough into mod creation and making their own mod tools for most games.This leaves you with the option of developing it on your own in secret as a hobby/side project until you already have something solid. The problem is that it's just too much work and demotivating as a hobby project compared to a game like an arpg or roguelike which can get faster results. On the other hand the programming tools and resources available today are far better than in the late 90s even if you wanted to code it in C++ instead of using Unreal/Godot/Unity. So it is possible but it would require someone with single minded determination and probably based on some kind of OGL ruleset.
>>2989564Also to add to this, as an indie project any mods released for it are unlikely to get much attention either. Another concern is that even if you code it the art won't be easy either. Just look at what the community has achieved after 5 years of having modern rendering techniques available. More than half the tileset mods are fixated on de-emphasizing bump and normal maps and instead upscale textures to ridiculous proportions that aren't necessary because a single wall of a tile is never going to fill an entire 4k monitor. So you also need good artists onboard and a good game design that will actually attract players and not just the most autistic grognards.
>>2989317Kosigan, ADwR. Tales of Arterra too, but the evil route is way less kino than the good one.
>>2989601>Tales of ArterraAren't the henchmen locked behind being good in that one?
>>2989649The girls ie the only good ones require you to be nice to them but you don't specifically need to maintain a good alignment. As long as you don't go around murdering everyone you see and are nice to them in their personal quests you're fine.
>>2989659>Persey will compare you to her first master if you don't help the Bedimes in the zombie attack, which prevents certain dialogues from appearing in the future >Persey will compare you to her first master if you try to rob Lomeldur of his bow, which prevents certain dialogues from appearing in the futureSo these are simply referring to certain dialogue paths and not locking the character quest from progressing?
>>2989664Persey is more discerning than Evanine (ironically) but it's only certain actions that make her dislike you, and for the most part it only means you can't finish her character quest 'properly' or romance her - you still keep her as a companion. You can lose both permanently but it takes doing significantly evil things, like murdering children or trying to sell Persey back to her old master. You can do plenty of evil while keeping them around - for example during the zombie attack you can insist on helping the family only to extort them for money; while neither of your companions will approve they won't drop you for it.Of course, an evil character might have simply told Persey she was a slave to begin with, which makes everything else irrelevant. That's why the evil path is inherently less kino than the good one.
>Favourite buildCleric. Used to be gish but now it is pure cleric such a strong class melee better than fighter and spells that can do anything.
>>2981490A Dance with Rogues because I'm a massive coomer. I just wish I had the foresight to make a bunch of save files so I don't have to replay the entire game just for the coom scenes.
Anyone interested in a new (RP) PW to play on?
>>2981490It's fucking insane that NWN2 was the only Forgotten Realms game that let you play a Warlock.
>>2989783>WarlockOne of my favorite classes but also mechanically gimped to hell and back.
>>2989245>gets BTFO>"n-n-n-no argument!"learn to read, ESL
>>2989813>but also mechanically gimped to hell and back.
>>2989783>Pathfinder vidya comes out>you cant play Summoner in either of them
>>2989783I, too, love casting bolt for the entire game.
>>2989783>It's fucking insane that NWN2 was the only Forgotten Realms game that let you play a Warlock.PRC warlock is so much better than the NWN2 version it's not even funny.
>roll 5>enemy rolls 15>roll 6>enemy rolls 15>roll 8>enemy rolls 14
>>2989950>cast Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting>enemy dies
>>2989838I feel you bro. "Call of the Wild" mod lets us enjoy out favorite class, but without Synergist and possibility to make 8-limbed monstrosities? It's all for nothing.
>>2989985More like>cast Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting>enemy resists the spell>enemy is immune to the effects of death magic
>>2989998>>enemy resists the spell>cast Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting>enemy dies>>enemy is immune to the effects of death magic>cast Time Stop>recall>rest>memorize Undeath's Eternal Foe>return>cast Undeath's Eternal Foe>enemy dies
>>2989985>using magicI'm doing a solo pure unarmed monk run
>>2990008Oh fugg, I did posted something really retarded. I had the wrong spell in the clipboard, meant Sunbeam. Seriously, a 20/20 wizard/cleric is very a comfortable combo.>>2990020>unarmed monkPeak masochism, my cenobite bro.
>>2989813Warlock hits a pretty solid balance point so long as they have Eldritch Glaive.
>>2990025>Peak masochism, my cenobite bro.Depends on the module. Swordflight? RIP in pastaBasic? ggeasySoU + HotU? Its okay.
>no modules where you seduce a dragon>no modules where you seduce a drow>no modules where you corrupt a cute innocent paladin into your servant
>>2990143>no anon to make modules with
>>2990143You could make those if you wanted to
>enter cave>punch hill giant once>exit cave before getting flattened>rest>enter cave>...
>>2990218By the time you're fighting hill giants you should have no trouble disposing of several at a time, multiple times between rests.
>>2990224I'm level 4, I don't see how you could kill this guy without kiting.
>>2990241what module are you even playing?
>>2990252What the fuck. Where are there hill giants so early in the expansion? You pretty much just grind kobolds until you get into the next act (and probably get fucked in the interlude by giant bugs).
>>2990260There's one in a cave where you have to rescue a woman. You can finish it without fighting him but I want the xp.
>>2990261Pretty sure that's supposed to be an ogre. And if you are trying to pull off something like that of course you're getting your ass handed to you. Should have completed some other quests first, like went into that crypt maybe. It's not like the game doesn't let you solve the problem differently, you're just being a munchkin.
>>2990265I examined him and it said hill giant, although he only gave around 600xp. I already did the crypt but the mephits in the labyrinth keep gangraping me.
>>2990270>I already did the crypt but the mephits in the labyrinthThe Ascalhorn one.
>>2990271Yeah, I did that and the gnoll caves too but got stuck on the place below the gnolls so I'm running around searching for xp.
>>2990276How the fuck are you still only exp level 4?
>>2989759Most are bad, make a sales pitch explaining why this one is any different.
>>2989783No it isn't because warlock is not that good. Everything people associate with warlock wasn't really part of it in 3.5.
>>2990143>>2990163>want to make modules for anons>see thread schizos>I'm good, bye
>>2990305nigger pussy fuck
>>2990305Lol nothing gets started ON 4chan. It's always a few guys in a thread starting an IRC (or Discord these days) and doing their own shit away from the retards that throw a hissyfit for not doing their shit ideas.
>>2990301Any sales pitch ever for NWN servers is "this one ... is totally different ... OUR dms are not cliquey, our players are not troons" etc etc so unless you want me to do the vault tec salesman pitch at you that you've heard 20 times I don't know if there's a point to thatWhat level range / RP setting themes do you like? This one is 12 cap, quasi-roman setting
>>2990302Warlock is actually pretty good. It's just not on the level of a full spellcaster, but full spellcasters are fucking absurd in 3.5.
>five pairs of gloves of animal handling>one pair of gloves of the yellow roseGame needs to stop giving me gloves of animal handjobs, they're useless
>>2990423Are these actually good modules? I've heard it's comedically edgy
>>2990391Never happened in any nwn thread. Not on /tg/ not on /v/ not on /vg/ and not on /vrpg/ so there you go.
>>2990442They're not absurd and certainly not as blasters if you want a one-to-one comparison, the reason warlock fails is because it's no good as a concept. It has bad lore, the design is not interesting, everything hinges on the book art that came with it and the idea of infinite spellcasting. It's a bad concept and late 3.5 already has a glut of hybrid spellcasters, some of which overlap with the themes of warlock which just makes it redundant.
>>2990441Not interested. I want no caps, no restrictions, no respawn, costly raise dead, no dm disruption, risk and reward.
>>2990552>I've heard it's comedically edgyThat's the whole point in playing them. I don't know what else people are expecting when the 2nd module says that you "dream of destruction".If you like edgy stuff like then yeah it's pretty good.
>>2990604Sorry 1st module.
>>2990559ok give me your best blaster build then
8 class multiclassing limit.
>>2990632I've never multiclassed in my life.
>>2990632How is this a bad thing? I've never seen a build that goes past four classes.
>>2990559>the reason warlock fails is because it's no good as a concept.
Finished the first chapter of SoU and although the start was a bit rocky, chain betraying J'Nah and the Dragon after accepting to help them and looting the dragon's cave made it worth it. Finally managed to buy those +2 gloves that had been taunting me since the start.
>>2990639>How is this a bad thing?Why do you schizos always respond defensively to the imagined goblins in your head instead of the actual post?
>>2990677Fuck you!That post was needlessly aggressive.
>>2990659It makes 80s and 90s b-movies look like a better alternative.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrXieml4Mb4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5arLbaVo_og
>>2990685>respond aggressively like a schizo>get called out>omg how could you be so needlessly aggressiveFucking schizos this thread attracts I swear.
Back when I was playing this everybody was always bitching about the powergamers, the powergamers were coming, the powergamers would ruin everything. This is absurd, that is insane, broken, unbalanced, game destroying, bla bla bla. It was all a load of hyperbole and parroting nonsense out of context, but had serious repercussions on how servers were run that negatively impacted the fun. Didn't solve any issues either. I get the impression from the thread and the community today that there are some 40+ year olds that never realized it was all a bunch of retarded hyperbole.
>>2990704Last time I played was on Arelith 6-ish years ago. It was suppose to be a super serious RP server that frowned upon power gaming. The thing is everyone was powergaming in that server. It's like a necessary evil because NWNs so hideously imbalanced that if you're not cheesing the game you're basically useless and no one takes you seriously. The devs just need to go ham with scripting changes on the server until it resembles something actually worth RPing in not just a retarded quasi-mmo-dnd hybrid that doesn't work.
>>2990704>>2990931So what exactly is powergaming in NWN and what isn't? Is just sitting around roleplaying non-PG and going out to fight shit PG?
>>2990940Power gaming is doing stuff like taking a single level in Shadow Dancer to get Hide in Plain Sight their best ability or getting just enough points in Palemaster to be immune to crits. NWN is so broken that it's pretty much standard that a lot of these OP feats will get nerfed because everyone will just have a variation of the same few builds. On Arelith you have to get special approval to be a pale master because of that crit immunity. IMO that's not even really enough. If they want an RP server they have to do a huge rehaul of the entire game so powergamers will be RPing just by default. Otherwise all you have is half the server cheesing the absolute most optimal builds regardless if it makes sense and the other half dumping levels into random classes based on what they were actually doing with their character.
>>2990978Eh, I would be fine with more restrictions for access to powerful abilities and spells, like having to actually research and experiment or having to find scrolls as loot from spellcasting enemies or rewards for questing, that's actually flavorful. Most servers just don't add enough variety or fun to make up for their no fun allowed policies.
>>2990988No it wouldn't. NWN is dogshit for RP. The only fun servers were the Deathmatch/Teamdeath match/Capture the Flag ones and now they're all dead. Every modern RP server in every game, not just NWN, does the "No fun allowed" shit to compromise for bad design. It's only weird niche stuff like on byond that you see the mechanics themselves reward RPing without retarded no-fun restrictions, but even that has been going down the no-fun route in recent years.
>>2990999crazy that the servers you like with the awesome fun-only rules and mechanics all died but the waaa waaa waaa bad no-fun anti-fun rp retarded restrictions servers are the only ones doing welli
can you PW faggots fuck off? no one cares about your e-drama in your larp clubs. this is module country.
>>2991093Make Modules Great Again!
>>2991093Yeah this thread needs to be more dead so that you fatsos can discuss A Dance with Rogues for the 50th time to see if you can decide which dog fucking scene was your absolute favorite.
>>2991113Oh, does it actually have dog fucking?
>>2991113better expired than online required
>>2991091Because NWN's botched PVP gets boring really fast. Modern NWN is a shitty compromise between RP and PVP. The best RP experiences aren't on NWN. I have no idea why the RP servers are still alive, but then again I have no idea why gmod's RP servers are alive also. There are a lot of similarities between the 2 funnily enough.
>>2991133>Modern NWN is a shitty compromise between RP and PVPAlso this isn't to say you can't have PVP and RP. The best RP is derived from player conflict without some gay meta bullshit hanging over your head. It's just the way NWN handles it is retarded (just like gmod lol), because you have to explain away how someone magically survived being murdered. Also the players are super asshurt about PVP from what I remember aside from the guys with 0 interest in RP at all. Everything is super forced.
>>2981490After DM'ing the Lost Mines of Phandalver, I'm about to play this. What am I in for?
>>2991158Mediocre campaign, better expansions, even better community content. It has a DM client too if you have friends and want to try hosting a session on it.
>>2990663>betraying J'Nah>not trying to fix her
>>2991184I tried to sex her and she refused, billions must die. What would you even fix, she seemed fine?
>>2991135shitters who NEED to be a barb ranger (fe human) fighter multislop non-character as a crutch because they cant pvp caused this
So this PVP you are talking about is 1v1 or what? Why wouldn't you do it party vs party?
>>2991207If NWN actually had decent RP it would depend on the circumstances. Example: if the town guards were actually in charge of keeping order (or were just corrupt bastards) and not just a backdrop they would obviously group up on people stirring shit up. If someone has beef with someone else they probably would wait until they're alone and get the jump on them. Maybe there are sewer cultists who occasionally raid the surface just to survive and unsuspecting people die for being outside at night. PvP is never fair when all of the reasons around it are grounded. That kinda happens in RP servers but it's really awkward. I remember it's very heavily frowned upon for an assassin to actually assassinate people, but then you'll see a level 40 with a powerbuild going around doing whatever the fuck they want. Or guys who are just there to play it like an MMO grind with no interest in RP defending their farming location.
>>2991213>i played arelith: the post
>>2982122Can I play this on EE from steam?
>>2991276>Can I play this on EE from steam?Yes, you still need to download it from the neverwintervault, though.https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/dance-rogues-part-1-20-ee-compatible
>>2990931Of course they were all powergaming because all their measures just shift the meta but do nothing about e.g. plain old cleric.>>2990940It's just an excuse for people to whine and enforce silly rules on other players and tell them how to play. Usually it's things like you can't take 1 level of shadow dancer, you have to take 4 levels. Even though normally you would normally take 2 levels anyway if you're not a rogue for evasion and uncanny dodge, otherwise you might take 5 levels for defensive roll. So that would be a non-powergaming build which is probably superior to the 1 level dip anyway. The problem is that these guys screamed and whined on forums every day for years and they probably still do.the other aspect was that they often required you to give a deep story for why you took the classes and feats you did. Some places even required applications which was just enforced favoritism, and all the stories were the boring trash you would expect. "Uhhhhh I want to be an arcane archer because I studied magic when I was young and then practiced the bow a bunch."
>>2991133>>2991135The problem with PVP and RP is that the RPers don't RP the PVP or recognize that PVP and even PVE are both also part of RP. They will go around leveling up with the necromancer and assassin and then metagame them after they're done leveling up to enforce restrictions on the characters with evil classes. This creates a tension which can't be responded to adequately and is mired in out of character politics, because a PW provably has character vs character (CVC) rules instead of PVP even though it's the same fucking thing but mired in more convoluted rules and politics. This makes it impossible for assassins to function because they have to alert their target and their target will only allow them to attack when it's at the disadvantage for the assassin. So it's a system for RPers to refuse consequences if it's to their disadvantage which is bad RP for non-RP motives.
Should my unarmed monk take Shadowdancer levels?
>>2991412I don't see the point of doing that unless you take rogue levels.
>>2991417I see, so you wouldn't say hips is worth it?
>>2991355if you dont like having a story for your character and just want to play your 8 cha 8 wis 1 shadowdacer x whatever el atrocidad de la fogotten realms why are you going on rp servers? it doesnt sound like you want to rp very much
>>2991419>I see, so you wouldn't say hips is worth it?Assuming you are playing in the OC, you won't get to lvl 21 most likely and I would say an unarmed monk benefits from his unarmed damage more than being able to disengage through hide in plain sight.
>>2991436Playing though SoU and then HotU, I think 30 or 40 is the peak.
>>2981490i tried this game and its not at all sticking with me.probably as i am more of an OSR enjoyer than 3.5 so the combat heavy stuff is really not sticking well with me.
>>2991453Well, then it won't hurt.
>>2991219It didn't mention anything about having their characters recreated on Sinfar to be raped by someone degenerates insect egg injecting fetish.
>>2991472Would there be a significant difference between 1 or 4 levels in Shadowdancer? Or would that delay monk progression too much.
>>2991453>SoU and then HotUThis puts you at level 26-27 at most. Also unarmored is bad in HotU as an NPC can enchant any weapon to +10, doubled crit range, permanent haste, true seeing and extra damage in various elements all stacked in one weapon.
>>2991494You just made me realize that /d/ making a PW would lead to quite entertaining results.
>>2991494sinfar is an arelith colony and you know it is
>>2991495I have no clue. I grew tired of vanilla NWN far too long ago. If you want to have fun with an unarmed monk, use the PRC and play a monk/fist of zuoken/initiate of draconic mysteries.
>>2991525Yeah, but I wanna punch things to death.
>>2991544I didn't know about it until some anons just started dumping all the OOC Arelith lore in a thread. I remember there was a shar cultist attention whore that did some degenerate shit on Sinfar that got back to them on Arelith and caused them to leave. Someone got flat out banned for recreating people from Arelith on Sinfar as NPCs and raping them by injecting bug eggs into them. I think there was some weird age play shit too.
>>2991568Some bosses in HotU will tank your fists. I remember one particular Slaad that had damage reduction so high I barely did any damage and even if I did some, he just regenerated. HotU is not a good campaign for monks, but in OC they reign supreme.
>>2991568>>2991591I went some variation of Monk and absolutely could not beat the final boss. Even when I cheesed an earlier save and left my companions behind so he couldn't convert them
>>2991591>I remember one particular SlaadThere is an unavoidable Slaad in SoU. I have made a terrible mistake on my first playthrough by going Shifter as soon as possible, thus facing the Slaad as a 5/5. Yes, going Shifter at all is a mistake, but I really wanted the variety.
>>2982122I seen you post this pic a dozen tomes to the point im going to assume you same fag just to shill it. To anyone who never played a dance with rogue, its garbage.I know a woman wrote it but shes autistic and never had friends. Woman don’t talk like that to each other, and most of its side quests are just an excuse to be put in “saucy” situations so why wouldn’t niggers only talk about smut.Thats the fucking point
>>2991600Let me tell you a little secret, anon - you not liking something does not make it bad by default. It just means you don't like it.
>>2991597They are fucking nasty. It is less about your build being good or bad, but about you having a weapon strong enough to pierce DR. You can use scrolls of GMW but these won't help if you use unarmed damage. So you have to kite and hope that your henchmen will kill him.
>>2991600>Woman don’t talk like that to each otherHow would you know considering you will never be one?
>>2991597As far as I remember, SoU gives you a special tool against pretty much every boss - be it an artifact or a temporary ally. Now Meph in HotU can completely cuck certain characters, like fist monks or mages who were not prepared to reflect-cheese him in melee - that's why you get an option to use his true name.
>>2991608Really how to stretch that so you can epic reply the reddit meme, huh?The first scene post rape is genuinely embarrassing and the rest isn’t much better.
>>2991603The problem with that Shifter specifically was that my character could transform into a Slaad as well, but a) it has limited duration and b) the real Slaad was excruciatingly slowly out-damaging/out-healing me. It was like watching a trainwreck in slow mode.
>>2991585Dump the lore here. Sounds like a good read.
>>2991624That's all I remember off the top of my head. Most of it was people shitting on the local attention whores/lolcows that probably don't even play anymore as this was around 2017. Also the fact half the server is broken up into a bunch of skype circlejerks which are probably all Discord today. It kinda made the whole server look like an old boys club that's best days are behind it. Like they don't want anything shaken up too much and they get more enjoyment out of gatekeeping circlejerks than roleplaying.
>>2991595Just tell him to kill himself.
>>2991648That's always fun on 4chan but don't you just really want to personally punch them in the face sometimes?
>>2991663Tell him to stand still while you punch him and then tell him to kill himself.
>>2991712I don't remember that option but then again I also didn't know you can get Aribeth and Nathyrra to share you.
>>2991713>AribethThe Cania version might as well be a completely different character and is more similar to a construct than to a person. The way she was railroaded first into being an oblivious retard (and even that mostly by association) and then into a grimderp traitor was incredibly clumsy and immersion-breaking.
>>2991713>NathyrraWhy do retards always try and make drow good aligned? Blackguard Aribeth is the only reasonable choice at that point.
>>2991771I always used Deekin and the Tiefling Weapon Master. Aribeth joins way too late.
>>2991781But he's a bard, bards are retards and should all be killed.
>>2991781>Tiefling Weapon MasterHe was a faggot.
>>2991790Deekin is your truest homie don't talk shit
>>2991420If you think garbage stories like that have anything to do with RP then you don't know what that is. Worse, being required to churn out such a garbage story just to have access to the class when it's decided by other means. This is why RP servers today really are not.
>>2991831This is my biggest gripe with RP servers in general. It's either chatroom forced RP or PVP/PVE with weird gay meta rules. The mechanics are never designed to create emergent RP situations. It's always some boring backstory and OOC drama driving RP.
>>2981490>Wizard (1) Fighter (7) Arcane Archer (10)>Bard (1) Fighter (14) Red Dragon Disciple (10)>Rogue (3) / Fighter (6) / Dwarven Defender (8)
>>2991941You're exactly right and I think most are made by people that don't actually RP and just want to have their own private ERP posse like what happened in Ravenloft. They don't understand that the RP is supposed to be the game and not something separated from the game. The RP is unlocking the class in the first place, the training was the training your character actually did, the adventures they actually had, the downtime they really experienced. If the builders can't come up with interactive ways to integrate unlocking prestige classes into the mod then that is on their own lack of imagination. Requiring people to apply out-of-character with some made up and uninspired story is not a fix to this. It has no effect on the RP, it does not influence future RP, it does not check that the RP was good, it does not facilitate training RP or even encourage any kind of RP. It's a completely out-of-character pointless story that undermines actual RP and functions as an excuse for whatever arbitrary non-RP filtering practices. You only see it on RP mods where the staff are way too lazy to actually make it an RP mod.
>>2991600...And that's a good thing!
>>2992000Trips of truth. The only time I ever saw an MMOish RP game that had actual RP mechanics was a GURPs server on Byond made by a Russian ketamine addict.
>>2991355>Of course they were all powergaming because all their measures just shift the meta but do nothing about e.g. plain old cleric.This is exactly why I hate people whining about powergaming. Who fucking cares about some guy dipping Shadowdancer when you have a single class take a huge shit all over martial classes from 1-20?
>>2992105The power of God(s) is just that epic.
>>2991600This post is pure autism.Not the fun kind, the sad kind.
>>2991831too bad your dream arena server with lite rp characteristics will never take off and you will be forced to write your shitty little character applications on arelith forever
>>2992303>arena server with lite rp characteristicsIsn't that what Arelith is? I think that anon is saying he wants an actual RP server.
https://ultimacodex.com/2021/02/check-out-ultima-iv-rebirth-a-reworked-ultima-4-remake-for-neverwinter-nights-enhanced-edition/boudda play this bad boy
>>299230399% of Areliths content is PVE MMO grinding. The non-combative RP systems are basically a non-factor. There are no emergent RP systems. The "That guys" doing loredumps doesn't change this. This is why "RP" is always forced and awkward. The entire development focus is on the PVE grind content.>>2992309It's a PVE arena, basically. It's not uncommon to see guys just running around in circles grinding up their character in the woods. This is "RP" according to Arelith.
>>2981490No it's not, still a decent toolset to make actual RPGs though. Bump.
>>2992394Any reason to use it over RPGmaker or just straight up making your own game in Unity?
>>2981490Best build I ever had was a cleric on some pw with untouchable ac that dual wield kamas. Killed everyone with books full of walls of blade.It was a RP enforced one so I played an obnoxious ancient mummified pacifist cleric that just accidentally piled up blades near area transition out of paranoia over some ancient war that didn't exist anymore. Everyone would try their edgelord builds on me and I would just "eh what'd you say sonny?" and accidentally annihilate their immortal angels, furries, vampire star elves (half) and Fenris Wolf God of Shadow Wulf Brutality type builds, didn't matter, they all got blendered.Like a long drawn out Drunken Master movie but starring a geezer cleric.My favorite mod was the one I was working on myself with working doppelgangers and a pvp crossover storyline 1 good and 1 evil tower to climb in which they would pvp each other as bosses of each other's story at certain crossover points.
>>2992303You really want it to be wrong so you're inserting all this mental illness into your interpretation. Anon specifically emphasized they want strong RP and made a solid case that your version of RP is lite RP and trash. It seems like you don't want to admit that you play on arena servers with lite RP and now you're projecting.
>>2992676mmm yeah the strong rp of every character taking a 1 barb / 4 fighter / 1 ranger (fe human) / 1 shadowdancer dip for no reason related tio the character youre trying to portray in rp but because you need an ooc crutch to 'win in rp'both of you bringing arelith up repeatedly makes it clear that you are butthurt retards that got banned for not being able to rp. good luck with the immersive strong rp not-arena server bros im sure it will take off real soon
>>2991507>More con than cha on a paladinWhy?
I see a lot of empty talking about RP servers, what exactly makes an RP server? What sort of mechanics can you build into your server to facilitate an roleplaying environment? Which servers actually attempt to do such instead of just setting up rules to punish people who do too much OOC stuff?
>>2990265>ogreRumgut is a hill giant
>did you find the Mask?>no>meanwhile literally wearing the MaskIt would have been cool if they noticed it
>>2992728Active DMing that rewards players who interact with the setting rather than just grinding silently, maybe systems that automatically give some XP for roleplaying itself (though that will also require the former to prevent abuse)
>>2992810I mean, active DM'ing is obvious and self-explanatory but what are systems that would reward roleplaying?
>>2992828I think active DMing is the first and last word on this really, like even the discussion above about applications and powerbuilds, instead of writing autistic job applications for prestige classes it is cool to let people who earn them IC use them ie. if a player roleplays an evil warlord or whatever consistently let them take their 1 blackguard dip for the stacking bull's strength
>blackguard gets smite good>barely any good enemies in game
>>2981490Nobody that praises this game actually plays it, they just remember playing it 20 years ago. This is probably the worst and most cancerous concept for an RPG of all time with the laziest most retard friendly systems and there have been far better module creating engines since, which are ignored because nwn isn't played because it's a good game, it's played because it's skyrim tier casual.
>>2992954Which module creating engines are so much better?
>>2992954this schizo posts in every nwn thread ever, both here and on /v/
>>2992954>Nobody that praises this game actually plays it>it's played because it's skyrim tier casualinterdasting, tell me more...
>>2992722>the strong rp of every character taking a 1 barb / 4 fighter / 1 ranger (fe human) / 1 shadowdancer dip for no reason related tio the characterExactly. None of the surviving RP servers ever fixed this issue and focused on MMO PVE/PVP grind with loredumps to cover it up and awkwardly implemented meta rules for everything else. This is what I mean by bad design that doesn't encourage RP.>both of you bringing arelith up repeatedly makes it clear that you are butthurt retards that got banned for not being able to rpEverything said about Arelith applies to every other NWN server. I've never been banned from Arelith.>good luck with the immersive strong rp not-arena server bros im sure it will take off real soonIt already exists and takes a massive dump on NWN. SS13 shows what actual RP mechanics look like in a multiplayer setting, but even some servers have lately fallen for the same traps NWN servers fell for. There's a massive invite-only GURPs server that does the best job out of all of them. It's jarring to come back to NWN and see the weird cognitive dissonance. That being some retard writing up a massive essay loredump, but spends the entire game running around in circles in the woods slapping goblins that are just standing around waiting to die. It's either that or a glorified chatroom.
>>2992728>>2992810>>2992893I don't think you need DMs. On the GURPs SS13 server the city garrison is in charge for keeping order and the church is like a counter-balance/rival-ish power. It's not admins enforcing the rules and no-combat zones. You can start a first fight with a random dude if you want but the guards will probably lock you up for a while or straight up kill you. Layer ontop of this that there are mechanics pushing players towards combat, such as muggers that will starve if they don't knock someone unconscious and steal their shit. The opposite is also true as there is a bloodlines system incentivizing players to work together. There is a RP ranking system kinda like what Arelith have but it's enforced by stuff like keeping your bloodline alive.If you die you're dead for the rest of the round which can be +1hr long. There are options to get back into the game the most common being respawning with a group of player controlled antagonists/visitors (merchant/slavers). You may ask if the guards can be corrupt abusive assholes? Yeah. It's part of the world. The people aren't totally defenseless against the guards but they would never fight one in a 1v1 fight. Usually it would involve them getting crafty and fighting indirectly with traps or something like a rogue would. The Baron would also be very upset if the guards are so corrupt it affects his bottom line, plus the church can get involved. Admins only get involved for immersion breaking stuff like batman characters. Everyone else has a job like the inn keeper who needs to juggle the taxes the Baron sets, charging prices that wont cause people to just break in and rob him but also let him afford to survive, and his own RP goals/vices/etc.Consider the RP ecosystem I described then remember NWN RPers are running around in circles in the woods killing mobs standing around.
>>2993065>There is a RP ranking system kinda like what Arelith have but it's enforced by stuff like keeping your bloodline alive.This determines who can be a guard and other important roles btw, so guards are only people who actually accomplish their vices/RP goals. I barely even scratched the surface of mechanics that force RP like how you can't level up until you sleep (so powergamers will sleep) and the vices system (so powergamers will RP). Most of the RP happens in the main settlement because the area outside the city is an AD&D-tier death zone that also has magical artifacts if you're crazy enough to risk it.Even outside of this base-SS13 has way more RP mechanics and scenarios than NWN does. Before most servers banned space racism I would end up in an alien mafia a lot, and not in the gay larpy type where we treated eachother nice, we were actually sharing explosives, alternative ways to communicate and contingency plans with eachother. Because WE JUST KNEW that when shit hit the fan everyone else would throw us under the bus. D&D has this but it's just dressing most of the time. That time when the AI is set to kill all non-humans never happens.
Multiplayer is the main appeal of NWN. If you only care about single player then you're better off playing FRUA modules. FRUA allows you to create a whole party and it has a better battle system.
>>2993132>If you only care about single player then you're better off playing FRUA modulesOkay, which modules would you recommend for someone who really loved Almraiven and Shadewood?
>>2991281Huh, I had no idea there was a new version. Last I looked it was v2.14.
>>2992722You can remove PVE and PVP entirely and accomplish what those anons are talking about. If you removed combat entirely from Arelith you wouldn't have a server.
Instead of emergent systems driving RP it's always "type something in chat to earn extra RP exp during the dungeon run."
>>2992722If you question RP because of the classes people take then you're stupid. If someone dips there could be any number of reasons for it, and if someone sticks to cleric or takes enough of a dip for the good bonuses there is no increase in RP quality. Forcing people to these restrictions doesn't promote RP it just promotes and enables your own neurosis. It's telling that all of the pws that do this attract the action crowds.
>>2992728You can forgive many of the older servers. Back then it was kids making servers and not knowing what to do, but today it's all 30 and 40 year olds, so now there is no excuse. The criticism is that they never moved on from the basic bitch mechanics, just added more. Emergent and RP mechanics are just mechanics that ground the character in the world. They take a prestige class partly because they unlocked it. Like the source material explains how pale master is unlocked, you can make it mechanically require the same sort of ritual. The problem is that all of the actual mechanics are abstracted away from all of the so-called RP to the point they might as well be separate games. So the solution isn't to force people to jump loops or suck dicks, and it isn't to restrict their access to the game systems. Instead, it's the integrate the RP directly with the game systems. You don't need to justify to anyone why you are a pale master but you do need to engage with the practices it involves. In turn there are scripted repercussions for those practices grounded in the game world.
>>2993177I remember a wizard on Arelith took a ton of points in Ranger despite it not being good for his build because he spent a ton of time in the jungle. Too bad he is basically useless in a world of powergamers cheesing the dogshit out of the broken system. That's kinda NWN RP in a nutshell. You just have guys trying to make due with crappy tools, meanwhile everyone else is just there to play it like a PVE/PVP MMO.It doesn't even really add anything to RP either for him to do that. Like, yeah you're part ranger, ok? The only thing you can use any of your ranger skills for 99% of the time is combat anyways. It's not like they actually tried to add some stuff to simulate actually being a ranger besides the Bramble Watch which doesn't do anything besides PVE the low level areas. It would be really cool if they went the SS13 route of fleshing out the non-combative parts of each class, so that guy taking points in Ranger would have meaning behind it. Nope.>>2993192I wouldn't be suprised if the main reason everyone still plays these servers is because their friends are there and they don't really give a shit.
>>2993192Yes, it wouldn't be that hard to add another requirement to a class like a custom feat that you can only gain through some ritual for which you first have to find a certain tome that has a custom ability that summons a ritual circle that only works in a cemetery area or the like. There are lots of things you can do if you want to make earning classes or xp feel more flavorful.>>2993223Well, it's a tough thing to balance combat challenge for RP builds like that without making it trivial for the people playing more effective builds. Usually, you would expect a DM to reward that sort of play with a nice item that benefits the combined classes playstyle to make up for the weakness or similar.That few servers actually contain opportunities to use your class or its abilities and skills regularly is sad, too. Having skill checks and the like to trigger events (e.g. searching leading to tracks being discovered that lead to custom spawned prey animals to hunt or groups of enemies to fight) should really be more common, that would be helpful no matter if someone is playing solo or is part of a group. Nothing sadder than someone roleplaying a tracker who pretends that there are tracks of *waits a while until he spots some monster in the distance* that type of monster where he is walking.
>>2993245>Well, it's a tough thing to balance combat challenge for RP builds like that without making it trivial for the people playing more effective builds. Usually, you would expect a DM to reward that sort of play with a nice item that benefits the combined classes playstyle to make up for the weakness or similar.That is exactly the problem. The focus is on the combat and not what the classes can do outside of combat. Imagine if someone spec'd into druid or something and could mutate the plants to overgrow and create man-eating monstrosities that's too much even for the powergamer to deal with alone. Literally becoming the Big Bad just by doing crazy experiments. That exists in SS13. It's when the botanist decides to mutate weeds into kudza.>That few servers actually contain opportunities to use your class or its abilities and skills regularly is sad, too. Having skill checks and the like to trigger events (e.g. searching leading to tracks being discovered that lead to custom spawned prey animals to hunt or groups of enemies to fight) should really be more common, that would be helpful no matter if someone is playing solo or is part of a groupI think it needs to go further than that but I'm comparing these servers to an open source game thats been actively developed for +20 years. That being said these servers are almost as old and THIS is all we have? What the fuck have they been doing this whole time??? Also I have to be fair because SS13 in recent years has been starting to follow the same path NWN has been on.>Nothing sadder than someone roleplaying a tracker who pretends that there are tracks of *waits a while until he spots some monster in the distance* that type of monster where he is walking.I truly hate this with a passion.
You can easily solve many mechanical problems that create tension, you always could to some extent but today it's much easier. SD dips for HIPS has a pretty easy solution. They stealth and you do a check with however much distance the rule books say to check the tile and objects near them then de-stealth if they're out in the open and away from shadow casting objects. Next you give HIPS to assassin and ranger at the appropriate levels and might as well make it a special rogue feat. This way it's not a matter of a specific dip and the utility requires some engagement with the environment to use it. If you think that sucks then you're probably right. I can imagine that people used to action gameplay will not like it and will have wanted their gimmicky mmo abilities to stay the same, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
>>2993245You don't need a custom feat. Every class can be given scripted ore-requisites since the old days of NWN, which just means you can unlock them by script/database. This stuff is so ridiculously simple and straight forward and there are multiple ways you can do this or devise multiple paths to unlock a class. But then the Ravenloft admins wouldn't have had their cybersex harem and there wouldn't have been the secret venting forum and the juicy drama that followed.
>>2993223>>2993245>>2993258If you make everything critically useful then nobody can be perfect and every character has actual weaknesses. This also favors adventuring parties over the solo cleric builds that are popular because they can do everything useful and don't need anyone. If there are serious advantages/disadvantages to everything then you fix so many problems but the players that want a one-man adventure party will lose interest.
What interests my about the next update is disabling spell selection on level up.
>>2993258For that sort of stuff you need people in charge of the PW who have the time and energy to accommodate their players' ideas. That used to be more common but mostly lead to many small insular communities having their own servers that obviously just ended as players grew older and moved on with their lives.>>2993260Ah, right, I guess the feat is an unnecessary step in that example, although having a nice flavorful feat that commemorates your dark deeds doesn't really hurt, does it?>>2993265That's probably the one thing I love about servers that have extremely slow leveling and only go so high in level, every group member and every class and even a lot of spells that become obsolete through items or high levels easily, count and can make huge differences.>>2993268Definitely a great tool for making modules for wizards or balancing wizards in other modules.
>>2993285>Definitely a great tool for making modules for wizards or balancing wizards in other modules.Man, I just want to make wizards collect books, build libraries, or study in schools to get spell access at pseudo-random.
>>2993265>but the players that want a one-man adventure party will lose interest.If you play a lot of these long standing games the player base is always veterans habitually playing that don't want to change things too much and can't really see things different from how they've been done. For NWN it's the MMO grindfest-mentality.>>2993285>For that sort of stuff you need people in charge of the PW who have the time and energy to accommodate their players' ideas. That used to be more common but mostly lead to many small insular communities having their own servers that obviously just ended as players grew older and moved on with their lives.Honestly, even if that was the case it wouldn't pass because the community's mentality is set in stone. There was a guy in this very thread who couldn't even conceive that it's possible to have RP outside of PVE or chatroom loredumps and assumed I was talking about PVP arenas for some reason. That's how brainwashed he is by the status quo. Would NWN even be the best tool for this anymore now that there isn't really any fresh blood coming in?
>oh cool an NWN thread>people will share cool modules they played>nope it's just sperging about shitty dead gay persistent world servers
>>2993299>Man, I just want to make wizards collect books, build libraries, or study in schools to get spell access at pseudo-random.Yes, getting that many free spells just for leveling up is just lazy design and uninteresting.>>2993308>Would NWN even be the best tool for this anymore now that there isn't really any fresh blood coming in?Is there even an alternative?
>>2993322>Is there even an alternative?They exist but they're just as old and shitty.
>>2993285I would move away from giving feats outside of levelup just because it's another complication to check for in custom legal character enforcement.
>>2993308It's a shame really because if EE had been an actual revival of like 50k concurrent players or even 5-10k then you would have the room to experiment. That is one thing arena-rp anon is right about. It would be unpopular, but not because of why they're saying it would be unpopular.
>>2993322>Is there even an alternative?Not really but like >>2989564 and >>2989575 said. You could do it but it depends on so many other factors. It's not just having a tool but a game that attracts people. NWN worked not because it was a great rp or pw tool but because it attracted all sorts from coomers to OC/module autists and all varieties of multiplayer.
>>2993320any module listing is made redundant when this exists >>2982158
>>2993320There haven't been good new modules in over 10 years bro.
>>2993364I think huge scale modes are kinda dead now. The only ones that exist are for autism games like Factorio or they're longstanding projects that have been around forever. Now that there is easy access to Unity and gamedev tools why not just spend all that effort making a standalone game instead? Thing is standalone indie multiplayer games are basically dead on arrival, so PWs are going to stagnate forever.
>>2993385Difference too is that indie games are stand alone, but pws were an ecosystem. You could try a new pw every day of the year and not run out. There is that GURPS autist but lets face it a new game would need a popular system like Pathfinder or the new ORC license.
>>2993322That was there as an abstraction of research between adventures and as a hedge against cunt DMs who would never give out spell scrolls.
>>2993223>Too bad he is basically useless in a world of powergamers cheesing the dogshit out of the broken system.Dude that kind of character is basically useless WITHOUT powergamers because he stops being able to match up to monsters at all. That's the problem and it was true in tabletop 3E too.
>>2993408It was also under the assumption that 3.5 had a near infinite amount of spells and you could pick them under some negotiation. If access to a spell is contingent upon access to traveling to a certain plane then you can't filter it nicely. In NWN you give access to everything possible or it's not possible to learn it. The other problems are that NWN has a limited spell selection, some of the better spells are bioware homebrew, and players abuse relevels to access all spells.
>>2993410>That's the problem and it was true in tabletop 3E too.Honestly? Tabletop isn't so difficult if you know how to play, you're not under constant pressure to optimize. NWN servers tend to jack up the monsters which just encourages the grindfest. Even if you want to disagree and whine let me put it this way, table top allows you to get exp off -7 level CR monsters and at low levels start out with as low as 1/10 CR monsters. You have more room to fuck up and still do well in combat compared to most NWN RP servers where you start out fighting CR 3 rats and CR 5 goblins or some bullshit.
>>2993410>Dude that kind of character is basically useless WITHOUT powergamers because he stops being able to match up to monsters at all.That wouldn't be a problem except the entire game centers around combat. If there were mechanics for rangers, like how SS13 has with it's jobs, then it could work and the RP wouldn't be dogshit.>That's the problem and it was true in tabletop 3E too.3E is why NWNs RP is so shit.
>>2993423Being able to fight off laughably easy monsters that can't even harm a non-optimized(as opposed to straight up retarded, like Wizard 10/Ranger 10) PC in any way is not the sterling endorsement you think it is.
>>2993223>>2993410>>2993417>>2993423>>2993440All this talk about build optimization kinda proves the point of everyone in this thread doesn't it?
>>2993440Just responding to the idea that they need to optimize due to the inherent mechanical pressure built-in to the rules. But if you think taking it to the other extreme creates a better experience you get stuff like PotM which undermines the setting because of over-focusing on this one dimension.
>>2993448The mechanics still exist but there are other mechanics that aren't used and other ways to optimize. The real point is that by only working on combat then players only optimize combat. They cheese and bullshit and OOC politics their way through the rest for free, despite not having any free space in their build for it.
>>2993485Exactly. A good example is CHA dumping. On Arelith for example if you dumped your CHA stat the most you would see is that it's low in the players description. There's nothing really enforcing it other than players who specifically look out for it and those were usually the minority and certainly not the powergamers running the place. Not to mention the OOC favoritism causing people to look past it. IIRC you're not even allowed to use persuasion or any of the charisma abilities on other players because it's not fun or some shit, and there are basically no uses for them otherwise. I can't think of a single time on where anyone pointed out someone's low CHA score. So it has no point to exist at all other than to gaslight you.This is why I stopped playing. This is 1 example of which there are hundreds of. There was 0 effort into developing the RP mechanics so it's all in the hands of the players, which ended up with a broken ooc gaslighting system. I genuinely have no idea why anyone plays this shit other than they're invested in the OOC drama.
Any way to force the Sarcophagus of Al-Rashid open with console commands? The pressure plates bugged out.
>>2993562As much as some autists have a fit when D&D rules are mentioned, they would deal with many of these cases to some extent. Cha for initial reaction adjustment, cha based bluff for haggle instead of being stupid and using appraise and so on. Like many of those servers, the crafting system is something externalized from the actual character sheet. It's a system that doesn't interfere much with combat at all. Everybody is not only an adventurer, but also a lawyer, a sailor, a miner, a merchant, a scholar, and so on; none have spent a single point in a profession skill. Even though some D&D non-combat mechanics aren't the best, they sure as hell beat 'bullshitting' and 'favoritism' as the mechanics of choice.
>>2993562Given that it's 3E I would prefer making shit up over using its actual social mechanics. They're really, really fucking bad and the dearth of skill points plus tax skills to be baseline competent are a horrible combo.
>>2993662Any system then that requires you invest in the things your character can do over other things they can't do. You probably love the current RP servers then.
>>2993672That's not a problem when the game doesn't have a totally dysfunctional skill system like 3E. D&D itself used Charisma and only Charisma for a long time.
>>2993633The crafting system has basically 0 impact on RP at all. The most it has is you need to ask another player to make something for you. That's it. That is more important than skillpoint investment.>>2993662I didn't even say be accurate to 3E. Right now it's just something autists use to gaslight new players into gimping their build. There's a ton of stuff like this.
>>2993676It isn't dysfunctional, it just isn't developed and complex. You can't seriously hate having a modifier and adding a roll, that's too basic to actually hate. None of the skills work like mind control, it talks about gaining advantage in negotiations or making a better case to a third party. Even intimidate suggests you can force compliance but it can be subversive and is nullified when the threat is gone. It's intended that the DM fills in those gaps but idiots took it too far and treated it either as useless or as mind control. As a server admin or scripter you should fill in the blanks and there is plenty of room to do it. All mechanics are going to be open to being games and the lack of complexity doesn't make it any worse in that regard. You should just regard the system as scaffolding for how you handle checks.
>>2993685>It isn't dysfunctionalI disagree.
>>2993692Yeah but you don't have any good reasons you just have feelings. It's like saying you're opposed to numbers in the mechanics in a game heavily based on numbers. At least burning wheel autists have reasons even if they're not very good ones, and even though you can question if the game it allows is actually better at all.
>>2993685It'd be dysfunctional on NWN RP servers because all of the interactions are done between players and NPCs are basically non existent. There probably is some really cool shit you can do with the CHA skills that opens the game up to a bunch of emergent RP situations, even without NPCs and without forcing your will onto other players, but with the current MMO grind mindset it'll never happen.
>>2993698I have plenty of good reasons to think 3E has a dysfunctional skill system.
>>2993710I'm pretty sure I have seen you in multiple pointlessly gnashing your teeth and never providing a logical justification for not using the systems.
>>2993703Any player vs player social interactions are going to suffer, doesn't matter the system. There are still interesting things you COULD do.
>>2993712>and never providing a logical justification for not using the systems.Because by doing so you are consigning several basic ass concepts to never, ever be able to contribute to social RP or you're encouraging dipping into other classes for the sole purpose of engaging in it. The fuck is a Fighter supposed to do in a social environment with their 2+INT skill points and not having a single social skill on their class list?
>>2993065This is round-based instead of persistent however so is a completely different kettle of fish. A world which begins and ends within the space of an hour will have a lot more player conflict and much less RPG progression. People are not going to be pushing big world-changing plots that need a DM when their character is a mugger who will exist for 15 minsYou can't really compare Lifeweb and NWN
>>2993721They can still build around it, focus on social stuff, focus on leadership. There are martial prcs that help for this. Other classes, even background feats that help or put the skill on their class skill list. Like fuck dude, if your entire reason for hating the rule systems was because you refuse to engage in it properly then I don't know what to tell you.
>>2993259>just le change the hard coded ability
>>2993320Oh please start another discussion about A Dance With Rogues, there's so much ground we haven't covered
>>2993751You aren't very smart, are you.
>>2993721>I want to play guy with big sword but I will cheese and god mode social stuff too
>>2993757You probably think that because you're actually not very bright. Even if I was sympathetic to your hate the reason you have was retarded.
>>2993753Except I understand what I'm talking about and have done it merely because I'm not limited in my imagination like you are. How can they just let me get away with it? You better write an angry response!
>>2993756What's your favorite module?
>>2993765Modding and coming up with creative solutions is basically impossible in NWN. It wasn't made for that and you're better off trying to mod for Skyrim.
>>2993773 A Dance with Rogues of course.
>>2993815You should try Honor Among Thieves.
>>2993811You already said it's not possible because the feat is hard coded. So use your head a little, do people use the feat or is the feat just there when they use an action? And if it's just there then is there some way to tell if the action itself was taken or not? And if I can tell if an action was taken then can I undo it? It's not even that complicated, not the hardest part at all. Computing and using vision cones to de-stealth people is a much more involved system, but I digress.
>half the posts are shitting on ArelithWhy does everyone hate Arelith so much? Are there even any 'good' alternatives?
>>2993836You type like you wear glasses IRL.
>>2993913It's more like RP servers in general, even outside of NWN. For NWN specifically Arelith is the most popular and probably the one everyone hast he most experience with. >>2993743I know what you're saying, but right now NWN has 0 to implement RP systems. It's just PVE grind. Like they could at least try.
>>2993916>NWN has 0 to implement RP systems.NWN has 0 effort to implement RP systems I mean. Yeah copying Lifeweb 1:1 would be retarded but the philosophy could still carry over. Why the fuck did they copy WOW instead?
>>2993917Ok, so give us an example of an RP system you would like to see which isn't just "uhh, I like lifeweb and think that somehow the systems that exist in a one hour round also apply to a peristent world"No offense btw I like lifeweb too but I think you are seriously conflating two mediums but maybe you will prove me wrong when you post these ideas.
>>2993922EVE online is a persistent world that is entirely ran by player corporations. The entire sector/corporation system creates so much emergent gameplay it ends up on the news. People will sit in a corporation for years just to backstab everyone in the end. It's ridiculous to say that the only thing we can do with NWN is PVE circle grinding. Especially when we HAVE existing RP systems like the alignments. If being an evil character was actively punished by the good/neutral parts of the world (and players) it could be a lot more interesting. I'm pulling this out of my ass on the spot so it wont be nearly as fleshed out as something like LW or EVE but for example: they SAY that being a wizard necromancer is bad and illegal. But no one really does anything if you march undead summons through the middle of town. Not even the paladins who's entire job is to smite evil. They wont even refuse to party with you. If necromancers had to hide their shit or face being ostracized by the main settlement and forced to live in the underdark for a few IRL days or until next death it would already add some tension to being an evil necromancer and also players who witness characters doing shady stuff. There could also be tempting systems to incentive necromancers to play with fire like if you raise a dead player you get a weaker version of their PC as a henchman for a while, since no other player will want to party with you due to the association and also paladins are out to smite you. Maybe it's possible to send your undead henchmen out alone to do the tedious PVE grind for you so when it gets caught everyone knows there's a necromancer out there but they don't know who it is.There was a NWN server with a level 5 cap and perma-death so characters were much more disposable but it was still PW. Something like that would also probably be better, but would alienate the "that guys" with 5 page backstories overly married to their mary-sue character.
>>2993914If that helps you keep some pride in an anonymous thread.
>>2993922The thread has multiple replies with examples of better systems for RP servers. Keep in mind that Arelith has been taken over and handed down over time and the current guy isn't a programmer or game designer, he's still using an outdated decades old system made by a scripter that doesn't require scripting knowledge. I think Ravenloft and some other servers have the same issue.
>>2994134That dude is responding to post about Lifeweb specifically being applied to NWN not RP mechanics in general. Lifeweb is semi-described in these posts >>2993065 >>2993102 but they barely scratch the surface. It's a completely different beast than C/W/J RPGS. You don't play as adventurers you play as towns people doing their jobs and just trying to survive their day-to-day life and it is brutally difficult.
>>2994180I am just going to say it, it sounds duller than playing the OC.
>>2994184Well you're imagining how the NWN servers would add it: No PVP zones and heavy rules on PVP. Most of the RP is done with chatroom loredumps. All of the non-combative stuff has to be emoted out. What little stuff there is is done through dialogue boxes in the laziest shittiest way possible. It's not like that in Lifeweb. Differences are handled through violence. Everything about the jobs is scripted. You can get mugged just walking around the Fortress in the wrong place. If you're really unlucky you'll be sacrificed just to power the fortress if not murdered by one of the antagonists.You'd have to be kinda familiar with SS13 to even really wrap your head around it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URJ_qSXruW0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE
>>2994189If I enjoyed getting mugged I would move to America instead of playing video games.
>>2993320>It's everyone sperging about persistant worlds and how much they hate them, keeping everyone away from the particular blend of autism I enjoy.>When people do talk about servers they talk about Arelith or Ravenloft, further keeping people out of my gated community.
>>2994194It goes both ways, but because NWN is ran by carebears there is basically no RP because there is nothing driving RP. Just tedious MMO grind and OOC gatekeeping. EVE is the only other game to realize this.
>>2994194>"That Guy" joins the chat
>>2994180Maybe but the post said RP systems that aren't just lifeweb. So type more clearly.
>>2994198Modules were a thing maybe 15 years ago. After that you're just reminiscing.
>>2994221Nah anon, I play on PWs.
>>2994224You mean you play Ravenloft and Arelith? I wouldn't say they're gated, more like village bicycles. Unless you play on a small server? Spill the beans.
Persistent worlds were innovative 20 years ago by the standards of 20 years ago because they had an active community like a new release. Today they're just old people's homes running repeats on the television.
>>2993950Do most PWs not already do that? Where I play if your character is caught doing necromancy they can be permakilled (per you example etc) and even a lot of leveling requires group. To be honest I've never played on Arelith.I agree with your point here absolutely but IMO this is still to do with active DMing to an extent., both in terms of NPCs reacting accordingly to the necromancer - NPC guards if they happen to be on the scene, stuff like allowing the necromancer to affect the game world through non-scripted means and even just giving people XP rewards for RPing tastefully ie. the necromancer doing evil shit and the paladin hunting them instead of them chilling together because its better XP/hour.
>>2994229Sorry I guess being a little vague and trying to keep a thin layer of irony on my post made it harder to understand.I play on smaller servers, the kind with the cliquey server cultures, application heavy rules and various balance changes that cut out all the fun power builds people usually enjoy. The kind where you spend most of your time hanging around the designated "hanging around" area doing small talk RP with people until a DM runs an event. All the stuff people have been complaining about.Threads like these always make PWs look unappealing and full of deranged schizos. But in my experience playing games with /v/ it's because people who actively post on /v/ are usually deranged schizos themselves, so making 4chan people want to stay away is alright with me.
>>2994256>schizoPls tell me which servers I absolutely have to avoid if I don't want to run into you.
In EE some of the glowing effects around environment items and I think some fires aren't showing up properly, would the HD Texture pack fix these bugs?
>>2994257>noooo a small niche server that i will never play on doesnt allow my 1 barb 1 ranger fe human dipperino meds, now
>>2994265I don't give a fuck about your boring server restrictions, I want to avoid people like you.
>>2994268dont worry since youll be busy on your cutsoom hide in plain sight heavy rp arena server youre unlikely to meet anyone interested in rp
>>2994257>>2994265>>2994268>>2994270See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't have to deal with people like you guys coming in, I can just play my character in peace. it's great.
>>2994273I just KNOW you play on Easting Reach. Only place that has this kind of pride in being a dead server with a total of three active players.
>>2993950"RP" pws actually running as MMOs is pozzed as fuck. World of Warcraft has done so much damage to RPGs as a medium.
This is why I've never wanted to play on any online RPG. Just drama and whining from losers stuck on repeat.
>>2994380do you usually judge things based on 4chan threads?
>>2994368Nah, pretty server though. It'd be nice if it had more players in general.
>>2994368It's just a 4chan thing really. I genuinely think it's a coping mechanism. There's still retards on cripplechan doing the same thing about their dead boring board. I've seen it for dead servers on /vm/ too.
>>2994248Arelith just doesn't do it but it's actively discouraged. They really really really get butthurt about any player conflict what-so-ever. At level 13-ish everyone on Arelith also runs around and solo-grinds XP, because they don't want to split the XP. I remember there was a really heavy handed nerf to XP a long time ago to discourage this but it just made people want to solo grind even more. In the rare instances people aren't solo-grinding and group up they wont refuse to party with eachother because of alignment issues. I've seen people explain away their undead as "Oh they're just my henchmen" and people go "Oh they smell really bad and look sick". That cringe kinda forced dialogue is really common place to cover up flaws with the system.I think there are ways to automate it, like if the paladin used it's detect evil on a necromancer's undead while the necromancer was nearby he could then go back to his temple or whatever and use detect evil on the shrine to mark that necromancer as being evil, so the necromancer is officially ostracized. I feel like there would have to be some sort of unique award or stat that paladins have that is maintained by dealing with evil player's deeds.
>>2994386No, this is personal experience being brought back to mind by this thread.
Should I buy EE?What's the difference between it and diamond?
>>2994491Pirate it from gog-games.
>>2994453Sounds unappealing to me but I guess people love their Second Life RP. Is it really that common though ? I've only played on EfU and my current server and both would generally not allow paladins hang out peacefully with over villains.Also imo some things can be automated for sure but you can't beat active DMing, though of course that comes with the caveat that in many places the DMs play favorites and will pull BS to justify the tranny-of-the-day having their wholesome tiefling necromancer survive increasingly ridiculous shit.
>>2994434Convenient that you happen to know of this specific server which is stuck on page three of the server list and have repeated their most beloved shilling line 'oh, the server is so pretty, hats off to the team that designed it (aka. the poster in question), if only it had more players hint hint why don't you come check it out?"Does this shit ever work? Apparently not!>>2994438For real, the cope of 'oh, but we have quality, we are so exclusive'. Bro you don't have quality either, you quite literally just have the server owner afking on his own RPing with himself. Muh popular is le bad and unpopular is le good contrarianism.
>>2994539gog-games doesn't have all the files for diamond or at least they didn't a few months agoI had to just buy it on gog in order to get diamond edition
>>2994491The part of me that (still) wishes the game to be revived wants you to buy it but whatever.There are lots of minor differences and some big ones like UI/text scaling to make reading easier and now there will be lots of stuff in the next patch that will make it more than worth to play the EE over the Diamond no matter how you look at it.https://nwn.beamdog.net/docs/
>>2994568When will you beamdog shills leave this board for good?
I remember enjoying the first Almraiven chapter but the second one in the swamp was a piece of shit. That's about it.
>>2994574When the game dies for good. Not my fault you were stupid enough to buy their IE EEs.
>>2994581>Not my fault you were stupid enough to buy their IE EEs.Lmao, as if I ever buy anything they put their grubby paws on.
>>2994590>Lmao, as if I ever buy anything they put their grubby paws on.I regret giving money to Bioware back then more than I do paying for the NWN EE and I haven't even played with all the new shit this patch will add, yet.
>>2994592>I regret giving money to Bioware back then more than I do paying for the NWN EEBoth companies are shit but for different reasons. One being worse than the other is hardly a reason to support either.
>>2994597Okay, I still don't regret buying the NWN EE because it's actually worth buying despite Beamdog's overall scumminess. Certainly more worth buying than the Diamond version on gog.
>>2994600You can't buy Diamond on gog or anywhere because beamscum took it down, you disingenuous faggot. Do you know why was that? Because people preferred it over EE.
>>2994566they do have it, and have had it
>>2994543DMing is always defended like you just haven't met one of the good ones yet. The problem is that there really aren't any good ones and I know this because I was a DM actively on several servers and was praised often as one of the good ones. It's tiring and often you don't have time and are too tired to really come up with a good adventure. Then you convince yourself that just breathing life into the world makes it special, but it really doesn't. You can't just come up with systems on the spot and you can't force people to come along on an event if they don't want to, but the people that join events are almost always the same crowd. The more you can make the world automatically reactive the better and the less need you have for flawed DM events 24/7. The paladin example is pretty lame on most servers, because it doesn't provide everyone with all the tools and assumes that the paladin occupies the position of normalcy. When you get to paladin restrictions and requirements more like AD&D it places them more in the position of outlier which they really are. Then you have to include all the countless tools like spells to mask or fake alignment, the non-specificity of detection, the anime collapse when sensing a strong aura, even spells to make undead appear as human. It's all about resources, availability of resources, taking the time or doing things quick. All these tools just to avoid places one player or one faction into an unwinnable one-sided position, because nothing drives a pw's revolving door harder than this.
>>2994652There's a difference between running events where I agree that some are done just to pad activity ala 'orcs are attacking and you must defend' tier one-shot slop but DMing where you are being reactive to player actions / goals is very good and one of NWN's strengths and absolutely breaths life into a world.Some things should be scripted for sure and scripting is good because its unbiased but generally the scripted result won't be as interesting since it isn't bespoke.
>>2994652DMs could be cool in an actual tabletop setting where they can make up whatever the fuck they want but there are heavy restrictions in NWN that the DM tools just aren't enough to deal with. For NWN I'm pretty much convinced an autist going ham with dynamic systems is the only way. The thing is only a few people on here are even familiar with SS13 so it's like explaining smart phones to people in the 80s.>>2994677>Some things should be scripted for sure and scripting is good because its unbiased but generally the scripted result won't be as interesting since it isn't bespoke.No one really has gone and added a shitton of depth via scripting in NWN. In SS13 the game actually gets worse when DMs are involved because there are so many dynamic systems going on the players end up in really unpredictable scenarios. You walk away from that game with stories.
Every single DM encounter I've had on an NWN server has basically been the guy emoting *See's tracks* when the enemy is 10 feet away. Except now the DM just spawns the enemy in clear as day and gives you a massive XP boost and even other special prizes. I kinda see why they're talked about so fondly and it's not because of the RP.
The problem with the DM in NWN is that you can't fix the DM at all. Yes, it was a great game for hosting adventures with a group. A pw runs all day for 365 days a year and up to 20 years. Even if you do your best you can't make it interesting enough of the time but even then you can't cover all the other hours people are playing without a DM. This is a weakness in regards to running a pw and scripted systems that evolve because of player actions are absolutely necessary to minimize the role and power of intermittent DM presence.
>>2994550No for real, I don't play Easting Reach. I would like to, it's exploration focused and has a ton of cool secret areas to find, I love that shit. But actually playing it is a miserable experience because of the low level cap, molasses slow XP gain and the fact that the players they do have are seemingly hostile to the idea of actually engaging with new players.Like, shit let's join hands in dunking on Easting Reach for a bit. Let's say you're a TER die hard who wants more people to play your server, and a new player has shown up. Which PC do you play to hang out with them?1. The mute who is incapable of communicating.2. The dwarf who doesn't speak common, and thus is incapable of communicating.3. The snooty elf who refuses to communicate.4. Literally anything that will result in a good time for a new player trying to express themselves.According to TER people the correct answer is 1 through 3.
>>2995631I think the areas are over-designed and uninteresting. There is nothing wrong with a well designed open expanse and the time you spend traveling through areas is just as much an experience as slow walking through a tiny vignette to find all the secret doors and lore dumps.
TLDR of this thread: Themepark faggots ruin another MMO
What are some interesting settings for a pw?Most of the time it's just boring forgotten realms areas or islands in the forgotten realms. I have a few ideas for settings that I think might be interesting and different.The port city on the other side of the forgotten realm's moon.The infinite staircase that connects many planes.The world of the birthright setting.Hollow world from mystara.The body of a dead god in the astral plane.The hinterlands of the outlands of the planes which are an infinite procgen setting that resets once you turn back.The spelljammer space ship.Gothic earth.The blood war.
>>2995725The more alien it is the more effort you have to put in to make the world seem believable, which is why generic fantasy towns are so popular. Not to mention faults with the source material's lore itself getting in the way.
>>2995725Global cargo cult society
>>2995736Nobody plays those places because they're believable but because it doesn't require any attention. It's never believable that all the most powerful people gather at some unremarkable crossroad to talk shit and chat but here we are on 99% of the servers.
>>2995784Back in NWN2 there was a server Sigil where every other character was an interplanar monster but they all just hung out in one central open air bar.
>>2995784I'm talking about in general. The most alien you get out of an RPG that is renowned for it's world building is Morrowind and that's because turbo autists have been fleshing out every single part of the lore forever. Also NWN as it stands is shit for RP as we've already established. Unless you mean you want another MMO grindfest?
>>2995827Go to bed. Your entire post is a confused mess.
>>2995648You might be thinking of The Dragon's Neck? My experience with Easting Reach was mostly traveling through open expanses. The Dragon's Neck is absolutely overdesigned though, makes for nice screenshot fodder but actually being in the space doesn't do anything for me.
>>2995725There's a Sigil server that has some of that stuff I think.
>>2995886Nah you just can't read.
>>2996075What's so good about Easting Reach zones? Show some screens.
>>2994677Why do casters ruin the vibe of everything? Look at this screenshot of various knights and then there's this neon green autist stinking up the place.
>>2996314Because casters are faggots.
>>2996314When magic is cheap it's always active.
>>2996441Magic is radioactive and will leave you sterile and senile.
>>2996450You are a thread schizo, simple as.
>At level 20, monks receive glowing eyes. The color of the glow depends on the character's alignment: good glows blue, evil glows red, and neutral glows purple. This occurs because in pencil-and-paper, 20th-level monks become outsiders; however, in NWN, their race does not change.they took this from us
>>2996583They become native outsider. Both outsider and native outsider are a type but not a race.
>fireballs are invisibleIs this a graphics driver bug?
>>2996314There's 0 effort to make it look mysterious or cursed. Anything that does becomes "Super natural" or "Paranormal". Magic is codeword for capeshit anime super powers now.
>Comfy 514 post discussion about roleplaying in a multiplayer PW setting is about to dieIt was fun while it lasted.
>>2997205>ComfyAnon everyone was at each others throats.
>>2996450DESU the guy in that screenshot is glowing because of basically this, magic is meant to be divine energy that eventually makes you glow and gives you brain tumors because mortal bodies can't handle it in this setting. It still looks stupid, I hate magecels so much.
>>2997205Posts something to keep it going. What pw do you play on anon>>2997303which is why the thread lasted, people arguing creates content rly
>>2997205It would have been comfy if the resident schizo that always hates NWN and D&D but keeps shilling other games would just shut up and take their medication.
>>2997320I hope he keeps posting, it means the thread stays bumped and more normal and medicated people post stuff. The discussion with lifeweb shill anon was pretty good even though I don't think he's fully right
>>2997327Nah, it just derails discussions because he can't contribute in a meaningful way about real NWN or D&D/D&D-like context. Same with that Skyrim shilling or whatever it was. I wish he would stick to RPG Maker threads.
I have a bow paladin. Recommend me some henchmen.
If he worked for an officially sanctioned assassin's guild, would paladins work together with an assassin?
>>2997486no because murder for money isnt good aligned
>>2997515Are lawful neutral paladins a BG thing?
>>2997309What server is it?
>>2997320I don't hate NWN or D&D. I hate how modern RP servers have implemented it. It's a typical MMO with some OOC cliques involved not a roleplaying game. You can use the D&D systems to RP. I even gave a rough example of how the alignment system could be used to change how players interact with eachother.>>2997345I had a pretty good back and forth with other anons theorycrafting what an ideal PW D&D server would look like. Maybe YOU were the one who couldn't contribute because you just want PVP/PVE grind not roleplaying.
>>2997303Maybe some guys with a ton of sunk time on current PW servers were upset their servers were getting shat on, but everyone else was just chatting about the flaws and potential ways to do PW servers.
This thread just seems like the age-old Sandbox MMO vs Themepark MMO discussion. NWN-edition. All the talking points are basically the same things you hear from guys comparing between Ultima Online and EVE vs WOW and FF XIV.
>>2997579No, I was the one you were theorycrafting with the most. I had to hold back because I know you always blow your fuse and throw a tantrum if people talk about things you don't understand.
>>2997619Were have I thrown a tantrum in this thread?
>>2997622You haven't yet because we've not really gone into any detail about systems. This thread really attracts the worst schizos like you always talking about some dumb and unrelated GURPS shit or something.
>>2997612That discussion itself has become so weird. Lately I have heard streamers on Twitch and Youtube called WoW and EQ sandbox MMOs. But NWN was never a good themepark in any sense. Not even the servers complained about here are themeparks or at least they're not remotely good themeparks. They're more like sandboxes with themepark elements forced into them. But they're also not good sandboxes, with the hilarious exception being Sinfar which allows players to create part of the server while it's live. Thinking of persistent worlds as an MMO is not a great idea either way you try to argue.
>>2997625I know who you're talking about. I'm a completely different guy. I only mentioned that the server I was talking about is based on GURPs, but I didn't really say GURPs is the best system. I was actually theorycrafting in a thread a few months ago about how to make NWN more RP heavy via scripting. Flesh out the D&D RP mechanics like charisma and alignment, do some RadiantAI system, completely rework a few spells so they aren't just DPS. Then that dude joined and basically said it was completely impossible because D&D is only for combat.
>>2997630>That discussion itself has become so weird. Lately I have heard streamers on Twitch and Youtube called WoW and EQ sandbox MMOs.pic related>But NWN was never a good themepark in any sense. Not even the servers complained about here are themeparks or at least they're not remotely good themeparks. They're more like sandboxes with themepark elements forced into themI think they lean more towards the themepark side but they don't have the insane budget to make a full themepark.>But they're also not good sandboxes, with the hilarious exception being Sinfar which allows players to create part of the server while it's live.Being able to build shit seems to drive I think the lack of casual PVP is also huge factor. PVP incentivizes players to band together, which in turn, causes them to react situations and roleplay more. You can't just mindlessly solo-grind or even party-grind and take no part in the larger community if there's the threat of a large enemy faction. A powergamer isn't so scary when he's fighting 1v5. It's the main thing driving EVE. Even the guys who refuse to leave the PVE zones are fueling the PVP conflicts, so they're contributing to PVP even if indirectly. It's hilariously ironic because a lot of RP players in ANY game have such disdain for PVP, but it's 1 of the key ingredients they're missing to make their RP actually work. Without it you end up with a weird broken system where everything is forced and has no meaning.
>>2997662>Being able to build shit seems to drive*Being able to build shit seems to drive RP a lot.
>>2997542sunset over ocem>>2997639have you done much scripting yourself or is this just conceptual thoughts?
>>2997639Oh okay. You can't always tell, I'm sure that guy has multiple personalities, he's insane. I agree with you, you can do enough with the system that exists, it just takes effort.
>>2997662But I don't think powergamers exist. You give them options and tools that you supposedly curated for them and then complain they use them efficiently. It's a misguided argument. Change the options, give new options, change how success is measured in the world. If creatures and treasure don't respawn and if raises carry a diamond tax then the game changes even for the combat oriented character. The problem is that the action types won't enjoy it.
>>2997692>have you done much scripting yourself or is this just conceptual thoughts?I use to script a ton back in the heyday of nwn but I haven't touched it in ages. I'm not even sure if it's the best platform to do a new PW on anymore due to the stagnant playerbase, which sucks because I have a ton of nostalgia for it.>>2997693He got mentioned earlier in the thread lol >>2989177 >>2988994
>>2997662People hate pvp and permadeath. Then they wonder why PoTM is favoritism with the same guy being the hero in DM events for the last 20 years. You literally can't win, but it seems like just mentioning pvp and permadeath will make people avoid your server.
>>2997710that's cool, I got into it semi-recently ie like a year ago, system shit is cool to add but i think some people underestimate the time / general cbt of scripting shit. like a very basic crafting system took like a solid dozen hours (doing it for free etc etc)idk if the playerbase is as stagnant as all that, its a bit slow to get new people and you get a lot of schizos -- like 40% of people who try out new pws are people driven off one of the big ones over some sperged out discord drama etc but you get a few new people coming through
>>2997712It's because it takes too fucking long to grind up a character and even leveling up is a bit of a process.It works in EVE because you have disposable ships you can PVP with and you can buy new ships with IRL money if you're impatient.It works in SS13 because the game only lasts 1-2 hrs and there is content post-death.If you could get to the max level in an hour or two on NWN it wouldn't be that big of an issue, but it's so different from the current playerbases expectations that it would still steer people away.
>>2997720Yeah, at that point why not just make a standalone game if you're going to put all that effort in? NWN might be getting new players but I doubt it's at a rapid enough pace to get a server with players up on it's own. It'd also be hard to advertise anywhere, like on this board, for example because people have to buy the game to play.
>>2997721You could still mix systems. No respawns but you can have raises with a diamond material cost. You can even make the system with an ethereal plane if dead characters want to continue.
>>2997720>>2997724During the start of the lockdown NWN got around 2000+ players online and the old servers interpreted it as they must be doing something good. It doesn't matter that you can get new players, what matters is that they tend to go for the servers at the top of the list, and they're run by people that don't want to think critically. Some will have a bad experience and move to another server. Most will have a bad experience and then leave forever, convinced they have seen everything and the best NWN has to offer. The new player retention is way less than 1% and you can't really fix that anymore.
>>2997724because I like nwn and only learnt to script purely by accident when making this pw. I think even though its janked to fuck it is a super solid RP platform -- you can make any system and run any event, edit the world, have meaningful player consequences etcidk what youd consider a rapid pace and what youd consider a healthy amount of players for a pw, this one has like 8-10 people online atm which isnt ideal but its enough for some nice RP and small scale player conflicts
>>2997729>You can even make the system with an ethereal plane if dead characters want to continue.Sounds pretty cool honestly. Dead characters "die" but they're still playable. Maybe flesh out a ton of mechanics so they can still interact with the real world as ghosts or even come back through possessing an NPC or something.
>>2997927I kind of like the idea of each death inflicting permanent injuries so you can keep playing if you want but your character gets more and more maimed until it basically makes sense to kill them off both IC and mechanicallyThoughts?
>>2997927>>2997936All systems have already been designed for D&D at some point of time in some context. It doesn't require that much modding and tweaking. AD&D style penalties (-1 con, cleric is x years aged) and Ghostwalk mechanics to flesh out death gameplay. I've done both. It wouldn't be popular in current year NWN.
>>2997936EYE had that. It was really tedious, but EYE also had a bunch of bullshit deaths.
>>2997311>Posts something to keep it going.It hit the bump limit. It's over...
Mages are basedWarrior and thiefcels keep seething
>>2998351>Best module is about thieves in your path
I like mages but I cringe every time I see one seethe and cry that magic was ruined because a rest timer was added.