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Full trilogy playthrough of the entire saga. What is the actual most fun class or multiclass?

Most fun for me being, immersive (not doing stupid metagame shit), not being disgustingly overpowered that the game is on autopilot, and thematically appropriate.
>>
How about you pick your own damn class without checking guides every 2 god damn seconds and have fun having YOUR own adventure instead of what a guide or an anonymous fag on the internet tells you
>>
>>2921555
if you're not used to the game or crpgs like D&D you'll benefit from a could test runs. just make characters that seem like good builds to you and see how they play, then restart the game and revise your character build with the experience you've accumulated.
>>
>>2921555
You: Fighter
The rest: Slaves to cast spells like cowards
>>
>>2921555
Human Male Fighter
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>>2921555
Mage immediately dualed into fighter. Basically a pure fighter who can use scrolls, wands and wizarding items. You can go into staves and use Staff of Magi.
>>
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Human
Male
Fighter
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>>2921555
Thief or Fighter/Thief dual or multi always felt the most thematically appropriate given the overall metaplot of coming into the divine power of the Lord of Murder.
>>
>>2921555
Blade kit for Bards. You get to essentially play all the classes in one. Strong melee, great spells, picking pockets, high lore, etc.
>>
>>2921555
Cleric/Mage multiclass (can be gnome Cleric/Illusionist if you're willing to sacrifice Skulltraps and Horrid Wilting).
>shitton of spells
>fun stuff with sequencers storing both cleric and wizard spells
>plenty of strong summons, Animate Dead being the most used through entire game
>S tier low level spells, Sleep and Sanctuary carry you through whole BG1
>tons of utility and buff spells
>can use wands and scrolls
While Sorcerer can be the strongest class, Cleric/Mage is fun swiss army knife able to solo entire saga if you want to.
>>
>>2921614
That sounds fun, I've always wanted to cheat in some kind of fighter that also gets Use Any Item for scrolls and stuff, but that is basically the same thing without any shenanigans.
>>
>>2921555
no fun class combo will fix the boring as fuck campaign of bg1
>>
>>2921918
zoomer taste, BG1 is superior
>>
Get the BG1NPC Project for maximum comfy time
>>
>>2921555
Barb or kensai dualled into mage is meta, but it's still fun.
If you want to micro and watch enemies turn into chunks, pick something multi/thief, like fighter/thief.
Mage/priest dual can do some interesting sequencer shenanigans in 2, but it's micro-heavy and you get a companion with that class combo to try it out.
And as a personal opinion, the game without ScS is too easy. Roll your stats with physical dice, 4d6 drop the lowest for each stat, and play with random hp on levelup without savescamming it.
>>
>>2921555
Always pick a pure fighter, paladin berserker or barbarian. The party is for all the faggot spells.

HH
>>
>>2921555
Great options:
1. Single Class Bersereker: thematically appropriate, straightforward, gets to dunk on spellcasters, powerful but not OP as a single class
2. Any Paladin Kit (kitless paladin is slightly worse than any kit): divine (martial) power is thematically appropriate here too, decently powerful but not OP, gets resistances to annoying stuff, more interesting than pure fighters
3. (Elf) Fighter/Mage/Thief: My personal favourite, gets to do "everything", very powerful but only if you use your combined abilities smartly, is essentially a thief on steroids, thematically very appropriate, no metagaming needed, can make use of huge majority of gear, makes smaller parties more viable (and somewhat recommended early game). Having played the game for ages I've come to the conclusion that the FMT is the ultimate bg experience.
>>
>>2921614
You lose some quickslots, though, don't you.
>>
>>2921555
I had more fun as an elf fighter/mage/thief than anything else.

>not disgustingly OP
>thematically appropriate
I've always thought the most appropriate build for CHARNAME is half-elf fighter/cleric, which is solidly strong but not OP.

So either that or elf fmt.
>>
>>2921555
I personally love the Fighter-Thief. Dual or multi, thief kit or even plain thief. It's more about the thief than the fighter. The fighter makes it more fun because then you can actually fight. The thief play style is just so fun. Sneaking, backstabs, stealing, pickpocketing and traps are all so effective. On top of that you get trap detection and removal. You never have money problems and Cloak of ND gives you the advantage to nearly every single encounter in the games. Scouting is just so strong in this game. If you give your thief another thief, a monk or a ranger, they can basically duo the game, but it's just fun working units around the map on this RTS-style control scheme and thieves play right into that.
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>>2923750
Shoot. I forgot about Illusion detection as well and then eventually UAI and so on.
>>
>>2921555
Paladin has been fun for me so far and it feels appropriate. Like using your evil divine spark for justice feels more interesting and believable as a LG paladin.
>>
>>2923755
To be specific i rolled a dumb as doornails cavalier and ive been rushing into every encounter i can, dual wielding swords is reliably powerful and using throwing axes at a distance feels so satisfying
>>
I'd say the classes that end up really OP "out-of-the-box" would be sorcerers, wild mages, fighter/druids and any fighters (lvl7/9/13) dualed to cleric or mage. Maybe multi F/M too. And even then this OP:ness (say that fast out loud three times) depends on playing style. All classes are viable and none of them is all-powerful.
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>>2923755
That's how I headcanon a charname paladin too.
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>>2923587
The canon mc is human, male, fighter. His name is Abdel Adrian.
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>>2921555
Started playing the pozzed beamdog version. Why did my fellow zoomies convince me that this game is difficult? Playing on core difficulty and as long as you use items and spells you are good
>>
>>2923911
>canon
Luckily one does not need to accept fantasy canon. I have never seen a single soul who would "accept" A.A. as the canonical charname.
Even the original author hates the character; it wasn't supposed to be published in the shape it was.
He might "officially" be the mc, but he's universally hated as a shit character. I don't think he'll even be explicitly canon in bg3 either.
Nothing against human male fighters though.
>>
>>2923914
>Why did my fellow zoomies convince me that this game is difficult?
Probably because reading comprehension has plummeted. You probably managed to read the skill/spell descriptions and maybe a few paragrahps of some guide/manual/wiki. That alone sets you apart.
>>
>>2923914
Also if you install mods (SCS) and amp up the difficulty getting your ass handed to you becomes a much more common occurence.
>>
>>2923911
I dont give a fuck about muh cannon
and literally everybody knows that anyway
>>
Assuming you've already started but if not:

My advice thematically would be either a fighter, a mage, thief or some multi-class/dual class of each. I would advise against thief though just because Imoen is clearly a canon party member.

No matter what, your character is Gorion's Ward and raised in a tiny keep, classes like Druid just don't make much sense.
>>
>>2921631
yeah but thieves suck bhaals in bg1 and bg2.
>>
1) Pure mage = pure fighter
2) multi Fighter\cleric

while kensai\mage dual is bg2 easymode, it's incredibly boring during bg1 (exp. during duergar's tower or the end of the game) and personally I don't think it's good for a first timer

epic caster abilities > epic martial abilities, take this in consideration for bg2 endgame\tob

You can play basically whatever you want since you have enough party members to fill any void
I recommend installing the happy mod or however it's called, since people leaving based on your alignment\choice of companions is retarded and the best banters are the ones between good and evil characters
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>>2925400
Can someone link this "happy mod" I can't found anything on the web.
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>>2925400
Fighter 7/mage can get fighter levels back in BG1, given you do expack content.
>>
>>2925408
I think it's called happy party
It's included in the tweaks anthology (a compilation that works with the infinity engine games and lets you install only the mods you want)
>>
>>2925454
But can you still give that character a fighter kit when you import it into BG2?
>>
>>2925527
For EE to?
>>
>>2925454
What the fuck is it with you people, OP excplicitly said 1. No metagaming faggotry 2. Not facerollingly OP. A dualed bersage/kensage (or any f->m tranny dual) is metagamey as fuck and so purely to be as OP as possible.
>>
>>2925834
they just cant help themselves
>>
>>2925581
Yes, but you have to delete System32 first.
>>
I wanted to take some characters that I hadn't used, but now I'm regretting it.
I'm a Cavalier, Jaheira and Anomen are healers, Jan is my sole caster and thief, and I'm taking Mazzy and Valygar because I've never used them before.
The problem is that I'm already feeling the lack of effective magic. Jan's Int is 16, and he's just not doing it for me.
This is with SCS, to be clear, but not even a high difficulty setting.
In the past I've always played heavy on mages, with Aerie and Nalia. I'll use Edwin on an Evil playthrough next time, probably with a mage MC too.
/end blogpost
>>
>>2925879
Spells in BG2 have the same effects no matter what Int your caster has. The main difference is the probability of scribing spells successfully but everyone savescums that anyway.
>>
>>2925879
Losing necromancy on your only arcane caster is a big oof

>Jan's Int is 16, and he's just not doing it for me.
He is a multiclass so he'll be lower in level, but Intelligence literally does nothing to the *effectiveness* of your magic, it only affects the *LEARNING* of spells from scrolls by
1) Max learnable spell level (18 INT for level 9 spells)
2) Max number of learned spells per level (19 INT for 99)
3) On core rules: Chances to learn mage spells (24 INT for 100%, 18 INT for specialist school 100%)
This is why potions of genius exist. To buff INT temporarily for learning spells as you never lose learned spells.
Also read the wiki.
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>>2925900
>everyone savescums that anyway
After I understood how the learning system works I never cheated it. It creates this fun thing of accumulating a bunch of new spells over time and saving them until you have enough to justify using potions of genius (and others) and then just scribe the fuck out of them. Later on in SoA and ToB you'll be swimming in potions and money so it's not that big of a deal anymore. Makes the mages feel more like wizards and mages.
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>>2925912
Also having even some checks on the power level of wizards is only "fair" as sorcerers and mages (single, dual or multi) rank at the top of the power curve.
>>
>>2925900
>>2925912
Playing no-reload and gambling on learning that fireball or horrid wilting mid-dungeon gives me a bigger rush than gambling with real money.
>>
>>2925900
>>2925901
Oh yeah, I guess I knew that.
Then I don't know what the issue is, it's like the enemy's saves are way better than last time I played or something, on what I assume are the same settings.
>>
Reading the thread I realized I know nothing about D&D. I loved Dragon Age and Divinity Original Sin, never tried older isometric RPGs, so I'm a babby.
I have no idea what all the classes do or why you're rolling dice at character creation and all that shit. Should I just go in blind? Surely the game will teach me how to play, right?
>>
>>2925924
Use your divine casters Doom-spells in combo with Jan's Greater Malison to lower saves (magic resistance is another thing to worry about). Also I think Jan can cast the most-difficult-to-save(?) spell in the entire game by casting Spook with the illusionist bonus at a whopping -8 penalty. A level 1 spell.
>>
>>2925930
Older games came with a physical manual book. It's not rocket science, hell preteen kids managed to stumble through bg, but some of the concepts are a bit unintuitive, like how your to-hit and armor is better the lower it is (there, I just taught you all you need to know about the THAC0-system). Also the bg-engine games seem real-time at first glance, but it's actually a bit of a hybrid as your actions (attacks, spells, using items) are budgetet per round (6 seconds real time). In theory a character with 2 attacks can cast a single (fast casting time) spell or zap a wand once, attack twice and then move about between this as much as they like within this 6 second window. There's an autopause option if you wan't to keep an easier track of rounds.

For a first time I'd recommend just creating a simple character like a fighter, max STR, DEX and CON and then go in with the expectation of experimenting for a bit and then restart the game after a few hours when you get the gist of how the combat works with spells and all.
The wiki is also your friend.
>>
>>2925951
just tought to mention because it's not obivous and the spell descriptions use these: rounds and turns are different time units. A round is 6 seconds. A turn is 10 rounds, a full minute real time.
Also: One game hour, or 60 game minutes, equal 5 real minutes. One game day, or 24 game hours, equal 2 real hours.
>>
>>2925930

As a zoomer figuring out the game this week was annoying and the start of BG was slow, but now that im mid game its really fun. The most annoying thing so far is the pathfinding errors where two party members are stuck into eachother. I also didn't figure out some mechanics until halfway into the game like the party ai. I spent 5 mins rolling until I got a 96 and my pc is pretty overpowered compared to the rest of the party. The early-mid part of this game is very forgiving, so you should be able to figure out most of the stuff just by playing. When you click on an item to equip it will compare against the previous items and green = better
>>
I really tried to get into it. I really wanted to like it. In the end, everything is too small and there’s too much micromanaging. Playing actual 2nd Edition AD&D in real life is a billion times more fun.
>>
>>2926025
Also, DCSS is better and more fun.
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>>2926025
>Playing actual 2nd Edition AD&D in real life is a billion times more fun.
Well this is obviously true. Bg is the next best thing though and sadly getting a GOOD gaming group together even semi-regularly is almost impossible for many. Bg fills a gap. Many people fail to understand the fact that bg's true essence is being an AD&D simulator, it has many, many things that don't really fit into a *video game* and their implementation in this form is not always optimal.

>everything is too small and there’s too much micromanaging
It is obviously not perfect and is held back by numerous technical constraints of its time but nothing quite like it has been achieved before or since.
I would obviously pick playing real AD&D over bg any day, but as it is often not possible god damn am I glad something like this exists. Simultanously I can also understand how the clunky mechanics and UI might not appeal to many. And despite it's clunkiness there is simultaneously this peculiar fluidity to how it all flows that newer games just haven't managed to capture. There's absolutely a part of it being an aquired taste.
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>>2926027
Apples and oranges. I enjoy both.
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>>2926088
>using longsword
>no blackrazor
weak
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>>2926088
>>2926094
Looks good to me, not everyone has to play like the resident autist on youtube. His videos are great for understanding the mechanics though.
>>
>>2926094
>being evil
nah
blade of roses is my favorite anyway
>>
>>2925389
Backstabs are godly in BG1, Shadowdancer is consistently great during the whole saga, Bounty Hunter can outcheese pretty much any boss encounter.
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>>2925862
It worked thx.
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>>2923920
>I don't think he'll even be explicitly canon in bg3 either.
He's already explicitly canon. BG3 uses the BG module that Greenwood wrote for its backstory, which is Abdel Adrian.
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>>2926231
Are his name and his qualities (human, male, fighter) specifically referred to in bg3 then? Otherwise it's a moot point.
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>>2926357
They will be seeing as its been datamined that one of the premade characters is his descendent. BG3 is still in the first chapter after over 2 years but we know a bunch of old NPCs show up and so does the Slayer so at some point they are going to have to infodump CHARNAME.
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>>2926357
Yes, but he is black.
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>>2921597
>>2921603
>>2921624
Started a run myself and after getting fucking brutalised for hours the only way to play BG1 for the first time is a gigachad shift+8'd Fighter with the Chad Thundercock avatar. Tanked up the ass you run in screaming and soaking up ranged fire, while your own firing squad of archers and wizards with darts/throwing knives follow make mince meat of shit. Spells are saved for more difficult or situational encounters. A thief to scout of course. Ranged weapons are fucking OP in BG1.
Running Chad Thundercock (full plate, Spider's Bane two handed sword and accessories that add more tank) with Kivan (comp bow+1), Imoen (shortbow, need an upgrade), Xan (darts), Rasaad (sling+1) and Branwen as a secondary tank/healer. Works well. Advanced prep is everything, don't be afraid to spend 2k of various potions.
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>elf fighter/mage/thief charname
>imoen thief
>jaheira
>khalid
>xan
>kivan

My favorite party. Slight alteration of the canon party; replacing minsc and dynaheir with two other people you get at around the same time who are near or on the main path. Has my favorite portraits except for paladin charname.
>>
>>2926969
I always take Xan in an evil party with Ajantis so I get to see Ajantis flip out without actually killing people.
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>>2921570
thinking for myself? how dare you
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>>2921555
Berclericker.
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>>2926088
wtf is that dragon? I don't remember that
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>>2927115
the chaotic good familiar
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>>2927121
hell yes
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>>2927121
Also, why are you using garbage like protect from evil and not haste, you don't even have greater haste lmao. I'm absolutely going to roast your spell list kek, glitttedust? Even luck would be a better choice. No detect invisibility or detect illusion or anything, you gonna get raped by liches and mages. You NEED true sight at the very least. Also you're using invisibility without using non detection, 80 iq move.

Also not using contingency or sequencer either when they are literally the best spells in the game. Just slot aoe spells to trigger when you take damage, shit like sunfire and then rush hordes of enemies.
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>>2927154
but I do have greater haste
have your eyes checked
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>>2927154
ok, you're just trolling
had to read the rest of your post to realize
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>>2927154
It just keeps hurting my autism the more I look, at least you got some of the mage combat shit sorted out but there are a bit too many.(the lower level ones are redundant).

Also using tenser is overkill when you already have access to like 20 different melee related buffs, you aren't pure mage or bard so you don't need it. Literally anything at tier six is more useful than a marginal increase in dps when you already a multi fighter. For level six, stuff like Mantle is better. Basically trivializes many fights. Also with contingency, the only limit is your imagination.
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>>2927161
I was looking at the spell book; the stuff on the right are abilities iirc, I didn't notice them.

>>2927162
Literally just contingency sunflares and follow up with other aoes(either sequencers or cast) will delete most enemy hordes. Let them surround you. You're not a real wizard if you're still thinking within the box. Go full allah akbar mode.
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>>2927154
>No detect invisibility or detect illusion or anything, you gonna get raped by liches and mages.
"Detect Illusion: 100"
>gonna get raped by liches and mages
It's an endgame picture, he clearly didn't.
>raped by liches
>he doesnt use scrolls of protection from undead
shiggy diggy
>invisibility without non-detection
He probably has the cloak, or maybe he uses those spells on somebody else.
Anon pls, you need to think before you post.
>>
I wanna play a gnome spellcaster and they can only be illusionists. How good are illusionists?
>>
>>2928062
>Specialist Mage: +1 spell per level
Good
>Illusionist: Can't use Necromancy
Bad

Necromancy is the best burst damage dealing spell school in the game. Skull Trap hits like a truck, Horrid Wilting hits like a plane, both of them can instantly kill some of the hardest to kill enemies in the game. Losing that school means quite literally losing the best sources of mage damage for pre and post level 7 spells. Spirit Armour and Death Spell are pretty useful too.

Its perfectly viable and you can still beat the game with no issues but if you bring Edwin or Neera they are going to kill significantly more shit than you.
>>
Trilogy? Pretty sure there's only two games unless you count Dark Alliance? Then shouldn't it be a quadrillogy?
>>
>>2928074
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate II
Throne of Bhaal
>>
>>2928084
Bhaal is an expansion of 2.
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>>2928092
>well ackshully
Yes, we know this, but when people talk about trilogy playthroughs that is what they mean.
>>
>>2928074
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://store.steampowered.com/app/1086940/Baldurs_Gate_3/&ved=2ahUKEwjy4qTC4tz8AhVBjYkEHUqEDF8QFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3BtttD9FZdaln1pVYdhOtK
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>>2928102
the Larian shit they're calling "Baldur's Gate" 3 has fucking nothing to do with the actual good games in the series
>muh jaheira
>muh minsc
nope
>>
>>2928112
Its also going to have Edwin, Viconia and the Slayer apparently
>>
>>2928112
baldur's gate was never good
>made by canadian conservatives
>>
>>2928062
Literally all classes are viable and can complete the game. Some classes have one or two near-brokenly powerful mechanics for some parts of the game. Some classes shine more at different parts of the game/saga. Literally pick any race+class that you have a good feeling about, you'll have plenty of npcs to pick from to round out a party.

Illusionist is a mage so it's powerful. Also getting gnome shorty saves (max at 18 CON) is very good. Spam Spook for the hardest to save spell in the game with illusionist bonus.

For a bretty unique class you could try the gnome cleric/illusionist who still gets divine necromancy spells and has options from the cleric spell list to partially replace the lost arcane spells. It's also the class that ultimately gets more spells-per-day than any other class combination. Sequencers, spell triggers and contingencies for slow casting divine spells is extra nice. The equipment options are better than for a pure mage as well.
>>
D&D 2nd Edition is abysmally shit. The only people who can stomach playing these games are the boomers who were around in 1998 that played them when they were new.
>>
>>2928255
t. zoomer

yours is truly a hopeless generation, though I don't blame you for it
you guys were screwed before you were born
>>
>>2928255
I played BG1 and 2 last year for the first time and prefer it over systems like the one from Pathfinder Kingmaker or Neverwinter Nights 2.
>>
>>2928255
>>2928261
These are not all zoomers, some of them are salty industry or industry-adjacent people who can't properly shill for new products because they're shit so they proceed to seethe on the older, better games.
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>>2928283
I have considered that before
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>>2928255
>D&D 2nd Edition is abysmally shit.
>>
BG1 might be the biggest letdown of any old CRPG I got memed into playing. Terribly combat against 99% trash mobs, a nonexistent story and some of the worst dialogue and writing overall I've ever seen in a video game.

It's the latter that gets me, people here talk as if the writing is okay when it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
>>
>>2929374
Without mods?
Sorcerer (or conjuration mage if you don't want to touch beamdog) with boots of blinding speed.

With mods?
Warlock with same boots.
>>
List your top5 crpgs please so we'll know what games have great combat, story and dialogue.

bg1 isn't really hyped up for those points anyways, it's more of a blueprint for the future infinity engine games and more specificially it's a low-level ad&d experience simulator in a semi-open world.
>>
>>2930290
was meant to reply to
>>2930240
>>
>>2930290
he will list some gay jrpgs or entirely ignore question, as always
>>
>>2930290
Epic Battle Fantasy 1
Epic Battle Fantasy 2
Epic Battle Fantasy 3
Epic Battle Fantasy 4
Epic Battle Fantasy 5
>>
>>2930290
Arcanum
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Age of Decadence
NWN 2 MOTB
POE 1

>List your top5 crpgs please so we'll know what games have great combat, story and dialogue.
You think this is some epic gotcha but it's not. Some of the games in my top 5 are missing one or even two of those.

BG1 is missing all of them, it is literally a deficent game in all aspects. It also does unironically get hyped up and shilled in threads that discuss the series.
>>
>>2930328
>BG1 is missing all of them, it is literally a deficent game in all aspects. It also does unironically get hyped up and shilled in threads that discuss the series.
Eh, bg1's biggest problem for combat is sub-par encounter design for most of its fights. The mechanics themselves are solid and the other IE games made this readily apparent (unless you hate RTWP). The low level cap is another thing that could be counted as a minus but that's kinda missing the point as it is specificially a low-level adventure which many find comfy. If you go in expecting dragons you will be disappointed. The story is not that special but it's competent, and again, it's doing exactly what it set out to do which is to be a d&d adventure, fantasy pulp, not a modern literary classic. For dialogue the same applies.

It's also somewhat silly to shit on bg1 and then list those five games as being somehow superior as they literally wouldn't exist as they are if it weren't for baldur's gate. The huge, huge amount of influence bg has had on the crpg genre is undeniable, along with the original fallout.

Also I believe very few people actually hype bg1 up as being "the best ever" or something like that, that's mostly reserved for bg2 and is a totally another discussion. And "shilling" a 25-year-old game doesn't really sound very convincing for why people still praise it. I personally think bg1 is the weakest of all the IE games. But to say that it's just a "deficent game in all aspects" is just disingenious: the games you listed all aped bg1 to a huge degree, some on all counts of 1. combat, 2. story and 3. dialogue (AoD is perhaps the furthest removed from bg1 influences). It's obvious it got some things right to have such an insanely far reaching influence in the genre still felt to this day with new games and games currently in developement. The blueprint it set is far away from being perfected in bg1, but it is undeniable it got some things very, very right.
>>
Do you guys like Wild Mage?
>>
>>2930342
Eh, too gimmicky for my tastes. I know some people say that's a decent class if you can use it well, but, I'll take my conjurer over it.
>>
>>2930342
Like? Yes.
Play? No.
>>
>>2930343
>>2930344
I'm doing my first baldurs gate playthrough as one and I picked it because I like things that are wacky but strong. Am I understanding it correctly all spells have 5% to proc wild surge while the wild mage spell lets me cast any spell in the spellbook but with a 100% wild surge proc?
>>
>>2930347
Yeah, pretty much. Mages are already a difficult class to play for a newcomer, wild mages just add a layer of randomness to it, unless you know exactly how to cancel it. Because there is nothing more infuriating than having a spell that was about to save the party fizzle out and fuck you over.
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>>2930353
My fav spell is skull trap, apperantly bard or thief also have these as abilities? I had an idea to make like a trapper char with all the trap skills and spells in the game
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>>2930342
>savescumming: the class
no, thanks
>>
>>2930354
IIRC, one of the thief subclasses (bounty hunter, I guess - don't quote me on that, I played a thief ages ago) has a special trap ability that resembles skull trap. Bard being a thief/caster hybrid has it as a regular spell.
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>>2930361
Exploding trap and Spike trap, cool! So could I multi or dual class along with mage for skull trap and delayed fireball
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>>2921555
Not an rpg >>>/v/
>>
>>2930363
IIRC Exploding trap is a HLA (I think for thief that's level 24) and Delayed Fireball is a spell level 7, so dual-classing is out of the question, because you will run out of levels.
Maaaaybe you can pull it off when multiclassing as a half-elf thief mage. But that's a big maybe.
>>
>>2930354
>>2930354
Bard gets the same skull trap spell (arcane lvl3) as mages and are actually better at casting it than proper mages as the spell scales with level and bards level up faster.

(single class) thieves do not get skull trap as they cannot learn spells. They could however cast it from a scroll with the high level ability (HLA) of Use Any Item, but you'll get HLAs only at the end of bg2/beginning of ToB and there will be much better things to do by then. Bards also get Use Any Item.

Thieves can however put skill points into the Set Snare skill and it is an ability that has great cheese potential to absolutely wreck enemies. There's even the thief kit, bounty hunter, that specializes in traps and gets better extra traps.

Both thieves and bards can also get the HLA trap abilities which can be very, very powerful lategame. The timestop trap and spike trap especially.
>>
>>2930240
you have shit tastes
the story/writing/dialogue is the best ive seen in a crpg
literally in most of the games I play I just skip over all of it because its written by incompetent liberal college students or something; its fucking terrible
whereas in bg1 it was charming, if simple, but most importantly it was quality
>>
>>2930354
>>2930363
If you really like traps (ebin) go for bounty hunter thief. If you really like skull trap and other trap-spells (delayed blast fireball mostly) go for any mage that's not barred from necromancy or evocation (so no illusionist or enchanter) or bard. To get both spells and traps but being slightly worse at both pick mage/thief multiclass (not the gnome though as they are illusionists). Bards also kinda offer both, but in reality you'll only get to use the spells for 2/3 of the saga and get the HLA trap abilites for ToB. All are good choices.
>>
>>2930328
>Arcanum
>Pathfinder: Kingmaker
>Age of Decadence
>NWN 2 MOTB
>POE 1
yep, I was right
I never played arcanum but the rest of those are awful garbage
>>
>>2930379
oooh, edgy
>>
People really should check out the bg wiki when coming to the game: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_Wiki
>>
>>2930328
surprisingly good list
>>
>>2930328
unsurprisingly bad list
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>>2930368
>>2930377
How annoying, bards can only go up to 6 but delayed fireball is arcane spell 7, so each of the options has to sacrifice something. I think best option is to just go some sort of magic character and be a pyromancer
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>>2930303
The guy that made EBF literally copyright struck people for spoiling his flash game's final boss.
>>
>>2930397
Ah jesus, It's pidgeons and chess all over again...
>>
Why was second edition DnD so incredibly strict on what non humans could play
>>
>>2930399
Skull trap is actually better: lower level (=more slots), better damage type (more enemies resist fire) and scales higher (up to 20d6, vs 15d6 on DBF) which is especially good for bards.

Also spooky skull > ball of fire.
>>
>>2930411
So is Bard the best choice? They get skull trap and explosive trap or spike trap (which is better btw)
>>
>>2930411
People should really look at individual spells for what they are. Some of the lower level spells (like skull trap) are among the very best spells in the game. Some of the higher level spells end up being near useless in comparison because of the level they are on. Obviously higher level spells are generally more powerful, but it depends greatly on the individual spell, scaling and competition for spell slots on different levels.
>>
>>2930419
What spells and abilities are best for the build I'm envisioning of blowing up enemies, just skull trap?
>>
>>2930417
Spike trap is way better. Time trap is also great. Exploding trap is strictly inferior.

All this talk about game mechanics compels me to mention the major youtuber autist who has gone through the mechanics of the bg series better than anyone I know: Davaeorn.
His opinions should be taken with a grain of salt as he plays with increased difficulty mods (SCS) and no-reload, some things matter much less on more casual playthroughs. But one has to bow to the sheer autism of doing video guides for pretty much every single spell, skill, class, companion and weapon in the game.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWIgBtZdZE

Best video of all time
>>
>>2930423
It's not always the most effective way of playing an arcane caster, but if talking strictly blasting, dps, aoe dps
lvl1: magic missile
lvl2: melf's acid arrow (there are better options than damage spells on this level, web for example)
lvl3: skull trap, melf's minute meteors (cast *before* rest too!), flame arrow
lvl4: Not a great blasting level; minor sequencer (you can replace it after storing the sequencer with 2 melf's and then rest to free the slots for more spells), ice storm (combos well with Animate Dead, cleric is a better caster for it)
lvl5: cloudkill, *cone of cold (*often difficult to aim)
lvl6: death spell, death fog
lvl7: spell sequencer, delayed blast fireball
lvl8: abi dalzim's horrid wilting, incendiary cloud
lvl9: again, not a good blasting level, but god damn if timestop doesn't facilitate blasting enemies well, especially when combined with improved alacrity
HLA ("lvl10"): improved alacrity, just empty your spellbook in two rounds lol, comet, dragon's breath

for further spell autism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxUBLrWzK30&list=PLAmVMMzG6qEpbGUBZeI-HFBPABJyRY1Kx
>>
>>2930423
>>2930441
The meat and potatoes spells for directly blasting enemies are skull trap and horrid wilting. You get a number of the latter pretty nicely at a time when skull trap stops scaling.
>>
>>2930445
there's nothing wrong with fireball until level 11 as it scales to 10, unless fighting fire-resistant enemies.
>>
>>2921555
Dirty fighting survivor - Fighter/Thief, for the sweat great sword backstabbing, pretty good for evil playthrough when the protagonist embraced their tainted soul

Absolute nerd - Mage/Cleric, have to heavily depend on the goodness of others, only to become the ultimate swiss sword in ToB

The good boy Paladin or monk if you want to feel ultra useless in the beginning - fun with other good boys like Ajantis, Kivan, Coran, Dynaheir and Minsc (who needs magic when you have bows?) or Keldy, Aerie, Mazzy, Imoen and Nalia in II)

>>2921614
I played Weezaboo like that, Gorion's ward spent too much time with books made by eastern Elves and decided to be like them. When Gorion wanted him to learn lore and good manners, he studied a blade. He always carries around scrolls with ninjutsu and two sharp thousand times folded swords.
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>>2930441
Are any of the cleric fire spells good? Could maybe be cool to do cleric/mage dual class and take all the fire stuff
>>
>>2930451
>great sword backstabbing
you can only backstab with weapons a single class thief could use (without using it with UAI).
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>>2930453
It's a good multiclass, but cleric spells excel more in buffing/debuffing/control
they do have some good/ok damage spells too, but they are often more situational. Check out the divine spell guide by the resident autist mentioned in this thread.
>>
>>2930240
BG1 is kinda rough. But it was them basically reinventing the fantasy cRPG from the ground up after the death of the Gold Box games.
>>
>>2930447
yeah, its bigger than skull trap too iirc
>>
>>2930454
Not him, you're correct of course and you'd use staves for backstabbing. But it still can be fun to run around with Carsomyr.
>>
>Be F/M/T
>Decide to complete BG2 at level 1.
>Decide to do it solo for extra challenge.
>Decide to do it on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty for an insane challenge.
>Somehow manage to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWpS1OhAOKY&list=PLSY0L_1N2-7hRHQnTW4uil_2Vppj9mWp-
>>
>>2921555
For those who enjoy fighting: Fighter (any kit) dualed to a mage.
For those who enjoy spells: Necromancer (mage with instant death spells)
For those who enjoy annoying mages: Fighter (any kit) dualed to a druid (insect plagues)
For those who enjoy killing mages: Blade (bard kit)
For those who enjoy stealth: Shadowdancer (thief kit)
For those who enjoy trolling: Evoker (mage with status effect spells)
For those who are idiots: monk
>>
>>2930430
so is wild mage the best caster just because their spell effectively makes them a spontanous caster with some RNG sideffects
>>
I think one of the underrated parts about Baldurs Gate and more so Icewind Dale since its more combat oriented is that you can do multiplayer. Is there any other games in these genre that allowed it besides perhaps Divinity original sin 1 % 2? Both Pathfinder and Pillar of Eternity games are singleplayer only. And I've always felt like multiplayer is nice in these games since multiplayer is what the tabletop experience these games are based on is all about
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>>2930538
Yes? There's the multiplayer centric one.
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>>2930510
Wild Mage is the best caster because you can actually spam Wish until you get the instant rest command using NRD. You can cast your entire spellbook over and over and over again without pausing. Back to back to backTime Stops and literally dozens of Horrid Wiltings.

Its disgustingly overpowered.
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>>2930610
You can also use Project Image to get virtually unlimited spells. If you're playing vanilla, then especially overpowered is chain contingency + project image to get 4 project images simultaneously, each with no summoning limit for some true RTS action. Necromancers are without a doubt the far saddest, most limpest of mages (still insanely overpowered because mages are just good no matter what in BG).
>>
>>2930610
>>2930828
baldur's gate 1&2 are not very difficult games by default. There are multiple ways to break the game and make the challenge worthless. That's why excessive cheesing, certain extremely broken mechanics or playing on easier difficulties is not recommended.

I believe that if you have completed the game once or twice you should be installing SCS + other difficulty increasing mods by default.
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>>2930828
>Necromancers are without a doubt the far saddest, most limpest of mages
Hardly, necros are top tier mages, the worst (still good) would be abjurers, transmuters or illusionists (cue gnome seethe).
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Gnome Illusionist/Cleric multiclass, all focus on the fire spells in both divine and arcane spellbooks, good idea?
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>>2921555
>immersive
paladin, you can goody two shoes and kill every evildoer in your path while fighting against insert spoiler here along the way, i think the story was written with a good character in mind despite there being option to be evil, play the trilogy with any ultra good character and enjoy the ride, bonus points if it's a cleric or paladin
>>
Anyone remember a mod that add a bunch of ice themed spells. There's the one with the iwd spells but I remember using another one when doing an ice sorcerer playthrough
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>>2930908
Damaging spells improve with level and wiz/cle multi levelling is slow as fuck unless you're playing solo
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>>2930915
I recall some of the modded ice spells (like snillocs snowball) being broken as their magic ice damage bypassed normal ice damage resistance, which is not intended.
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>>2930925
Idk about that but are you sure it's not intended? Iirc in pathfinder snowball bypass MR too.
>>
Baldurs gate 1&2 are second edition. Baldurs gate 3 will be fifth edition. Were there any good CRPG's made in third or fourth edition?
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>>2930917
So if I want my spells to actually be destructive its better to stick to single class mage?
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>>2930942
Fire salamanders resist fireball (magic fire)
Ice salamanders not resisting snilloc's snowball (magic cold) seems very inconsistent
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>>2930965
in general, yes
there is a bit of nuance to it though:
-bards level faster so any level scaling spells (remove magic, skull trap etc.) they can get (up to lvl6 spells) will be better on them. They'll have less spell slots though.

But in the end it's kind of a "duh": a full caster will be better at casting than non-full casters or casters that split their levels
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>>2930908
The point of the M/C multi and what makes them extremely powerful is their versatility. They grow slowly, but for a lot of the utility stuff that doesnt matter. But if you want big booms levels matter more, and multiclassing can be more directly painful. If you're already planning to focus your spell selection, you'll probably get a lot more out of just going Sorcerer.
>>
Well. Kensai knife thrower is working extremely fucking well for me in BG1. I think this pushes Kensai/Thief dual above F/T multi for me across the trilogy since it fixes almost all the Kensai's rough spots.
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>>2930410
It's made in less gay times.
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>>2930410
It's a combination of adherence to particular fantasy thematics and legacy mechanics stretching back to early D&D where race/class wasn't a thing and you just played "elf." At later points non-humans had caps on their maximum level of a class to offset their extra abilities (foreshadowing how 3e would have racial classes for more exotic and powerful PC races), and one of the biggest advantage of humans was simply that they could advance to higher levels instead. That didnt survive obviously, and by the time you get to late AD&D 2nd the rough edges have been sanded off to the point that the last major mechanical advantage of being human was just wider class selection. Again 3e wouldn't have this issue because feats offered a new mechanic that could serve as a human advantage (and nicely mirrored to old "extra levels" of humans in a small way).
>>
Giving the gnome green skin and pretending to be a goblin, will it work?
>>
What is everyones fav build they have played? :)
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>>2923911
>>2923920
>>2926231
>>2926357
>>2926776
>BG3 uses the BG module that Greenwood wrote for its backstory, which is Abdel Adrian.
>BG3 is still in the first chapter after over 2 years but we know a bunch of old NPCs show up and so does the Slayer so at some point they are going to have to infodump CHARNAME.
Apart form his name nothing that you've wrote is even remotely correct.
You are probably banking on most anons knowing even less than you which is why spill this bullshit.

Lets have some actual facts and not rumors and hearsay from reddit:
1. Greenwood didn't have anything to do with the abortion that is the Baldurs Gate Novels.
2. The Novels are generally considered the hands down worst Forgotten Realms novels.
3. The Novels were written during a time when WOTC/TSR didnt have the rights to anything from the games so all characters are different from ones in the game.
4. The Novels were written in like 3 months each and as a kneejerk reaction to said Copyright/Ownership-Dispute.
5. They were written by Athans who is widely considered the worst FR-Writer.
6. Greenwood also didnt write "Murder in Baldurs Gate" to which BG3 is the Sequel the shitty module was Co-Written by the tranny Amber Scott.
7. Nothing from novels or the game is canon aside from CHARNAMEs name because:
- In the Novels Jaheira was blond.
- In the Novels Jaheira dies.
- In the Novels Minsc was a crazy carrot top hobo and also dies.

You can now stop with your Canon/NonCanon-Retardation unless you want me to BTFO you even harder.
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>>2931289
Sure. You could even manually rewrite your background in game to say your mother was a goblin, but mention that your goblin girl is cute enough that everyone just assumes you're some exotic kind of gnome. Rationalizes any stray NPC references.
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>>2931289
>>2931346
I would pick a Halfling tho since Gnome-Models and Paperdolls have beards.
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>>2931366
?
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>>2931346
Cute goblin, saved

thanks for everyone in the threat for great help, I'm going to make a gnome illusionist/cleric, make him green, take all the fire spells and blast everyone pretending to be a goblin, daveorn talks about offensive cleric/illusionist in his class video, right now I'm just browsing good goblin portraits to use, the only thing that I'm sad about is that the skull trap looks sick and seems blast
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>>2931376
Kinda sucks that you're only locked to romance an autistic elf child, but hey, incel goblin is a win goblin too.
>>
>>2931419
there's mods if one really wants to "fix" that
isn't there even a mod for the size-appropriate halfling lass?
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>>2931319
Why are you doing a massive autism post about the novels when quoting someone who didn't mention the novels? The module and the novels are two different things. The only relevant point you made is
>6. Greenwood also didnt write "Murder in Baldurs Gate" to which BG3 is the Sequel the shitty module was Co-Written by the tranny Amber Scott.
Which is just outright wrong. Greenwood did write for that module and Amber Scott had nothing to do with it.
>>
>>2930828
>Necromancers are without a doubt the far saddest, most limpest of mages
t. has never played Abjurer or Transmuter
>>
>>2931515
If you mean the Mazzy one, its only worth installing if you want to see how much of a complete trainwreck it is.
>>
>>2931295
Elf F/M/T. Juggling around using the abilities of all classes keeps it fresh.
The classic Cavalier is also good for maximum good boy points.
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>>2930956
>third
Neverwinter Nights 1/2, ToEE, technically KotOR, Pathfinder games
>fourth
Nah, fuck that shit.
>>
>>2931808
Wasn't "Sword Coast Legends" 4'th?

... wait, was it even released?!
>>
>>2931541
>Why are you doing a massive autism post about the novels when quoting someone who didn't mention the novels?
You mentioned what canon is and what isnt without even knowing where it comes from or what Descent into Avernus and Murder in Baldurs Gate are based on.
Of course its autism when you get BTFO by being a reddit-rumors-bottomfeeder.

>The module and the novels are two different things
Then maybe you might want to inform yourself first before you talk about something you dont know shit about.

>Which is just outright wrong
No its not. If you actually were into D&D were following the Interviews before the release you would know that was on as a "consultant" so they could slap his name on the package.

>Greenwood did write for that module
Nope.

>Amber Scott had nothing to do with it.
The tranny was bragging that he was involved in both Murder in BG and Descent into Avernus.

Now slink back into your crawlspace with your tail tucked between your legs, redditfaggot.
>>
>>2931808
What was the edition which was so shit that it made the pathfinder guys go make their own game
>>
>>2931897
I noticed one of the better/more established mods had a module that allows you to kill (the real) hexxat the moment you meet her and keep Clara if you want to. I have never pressed Y on an installer more rapidly. Fuck that vampire aids'ed donut steel turd. She's awful even on beamdog "standards". Someone like Rasaad I could tolerate writing-wise, he's the best beamdog managed. Sadly his kit is literally the absolute worst of *ALL* possible race/class/kit/multiclass options.
>>
Which class is the best skull trap spammer?
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>>2931960
Necromancer (-2 harder save for half damage) or bard (faster levels = gets faster to 20d6 damage cap). Ultimately Necromancer.
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>>2931988
I meant as in who gets to cast them the most without resting
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>>2932005
That would be sorcerer. They get six(6) lvl3 spell casts at level 9. (Specialist Mage) Necromancer gets six lvl3 slots at level 13, but necromancer will always get that -2 modifier to enemy saves for half damage. With retard math that's 10% better chance to get full damage on a d20. Which would very roughly result in about a 5% damage increase *per spell* on average I guess.
>>
>>2932012
I've never played sorc but isnt their gimmick that they get less spell casts in favor of not having to memorize spells?
>>
Why can't gnomes be wild mages if they exist as npcs
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Barad_Ding
>>
>>2932021
Not quite. It's not really a gimmick. Sorcerers are spell batteries. Tough to explain. Much easier if you play one, then you'll get it. They have several advantages over a vancian mage. Most notably is the fact that they do not rely on scrolls to gain their spells. There are a lot of scrolls that can only be found in obscure, difficult to reach or late places in the game. Once they hit the BG2 level cap, they can cast level 9 spells, not the case for mages.
>>
>>2931295
Half-orc Kensai, anon. He kicks so much ass.
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>>2930445
Next up is DoT spells like Cloudkill, Ice Storm and Incendiary Cloud. That's how you kill shit on LoB mode.
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>>2932021
>less spell casts
No it's more that you get less spell selection. Mages can learn every spell in the game eventually through scribing scrolls. But Sorcerers have to pick and choose a much smaller subset to which they are limited. But they get those selections automatically upon level up. Along with the spontaneous casting Sorcerer advantages this tends to mean they are very powerful for experienced players who already know which spells are going to be most effective or enjoyable for them. Whereas newer players tend to benefit from the ability to experiment with different spells offered by a normal mage.
>>
>>2932076
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_Progression_Tables

says here it's pretty much the same, but specialists mages get an extra slot
>>
>>2932224
nvm I realized I was reading the dragon disciple, but it seems like dragon disciple and vanilla mage have pretty much same slots, while specialist and vanilla sorc have an extra spell?
>>
>>2932021
>>2932225
Sorcerers can cast more spells per spell level per rest than a mage
Sorcerers do not prepare spells, they simply get a budget of spell casts per spell level per rest meaning they have more flexibility of available casts in a fight
Sorcerers do not need intelligence so they can put stat points into other things
Sorcerers do not need to find spell scrolls, they get the spells they want immediately on level up

Each spell level only has a small amount of very powerful spells, so if you know what you're doing they are blatantly superior to mage in every way and the best class in baldur's gate.
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>>2932225
I think you're still reading it wrong.
>>
>>2932224
That's casts per day. Not spells known. Look at the Sorceror page. There's an additional table that tells spells known which is 4-5 per spell level at end game. That means you only ever have access to 5 specific 1st level spells for example (without using up an item/item charge). Whereas a mage is going to have 20ish 1st level spells in their spellbook.
>>
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Micolash anon here
>>2929374
This is the char I ended up making, I watched Daveorn's video and Wild mage seemed like the fit for Micolash and I can use the wild mage spell to spam a comet like a madlad, chaotic neutral seems like the right fit. This is my first time playing baldurs gate and I've gathered 2 absolute madlads to join my party alongside stepsis and an annoying couple which I want to get rid of. Game is a fucking blast i'm already hooked
>>
>>2932245
Enjoy. BG1 is kinda sleepy and old-school to a fault. But BG2 is fantastic and has much stronger companion characterization.
>>
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>>2932225
Here, I made you a graph. Keep in mind that you aren't really going to get anywhere near level cap in a normal playthrough.
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>>2932250
Nice graph, I'm actually learning about them in math class atm so this is great, thanks.
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Using this thread to bitch.
I give up on this asshole. Nearly beat him last night but turned my MC into a ghast.
May try again after I get back from that Isle.
>>
>>2932012
One idea is wild mage since all tier 1 spells are skull traps aswell with reckless dweamor right
>>
>>2931866
The first person to mention the novels was you, and all you've done is make very angry, unsourced rant posts. I don't know what about Abdel Adrian being a male human fighter in BG3s backstory (and, in fact, in all canon WTOC works) makes you so upset but he is and that isn't changing.
>>
>>2932245
Have fun petrifying yourself and being exploded by cows
Completely serious there, it is fun when it happens
>>
>>2932254
dude potions of mirrored eyes lmao
>>
>>2930410
2e had a bizarre sense of balance, but it was still an upgrade compared to 1e where Elf was a Fighter/Mage (no buts) and a Dwarf was a Fighter/Cleric (no buts). Be thankful the game doesn't impose racial level caps.
>>
>>2931837
Even though people scream day in and day out that 4e is "like wow" or "videogamey", no rules-accurate 4e games were made.
>>
>>2932024
One thing about most NPCs in the game is that they "break the rules" in some way. Minsc has the Berserk ability for example despite being a ranger, Kaigan and Coran have illegal ability scores (20 con and 20 dex respectively), Edwin has extra spell slots, Xan's sword, etc.
>>
>>2932339
Unsurprising because the 4th ed. era of 2008-2013 sat right in the deadzone for isometric cRPGs.
>>
>>2932339
of course not, it was an adaption of games like WoW to tabletop; why would you then go back in the other direction?
thats like somebody saying "I hope they adapt this Last of Us show into a video game!"
>>
>>2932347
You say that, but...
>>
>>2932347
Bullshit, 3e was more like an MMO than literally any system ever released.
>>
>>2932349
wow, kek

>>2932351
ok
>>
Sorcerer or Mage
Who is the superiour Arcane caster?
>>
>>2932254
Another pro tip: take out the cultists before the boss. It's still not a cakewalk though and you'll have to deal with being targeted for status effects.
>>
>>2932024
There are mods that unlock all classes and subclasses (kits) for all races. Also allow dual classing for non-humans. Always felt they were messing too much with the feel of the system to use them myself though.
>>
>>2932293
In theory sure, but at low to mid levels it's very, very risky. Playing no-reload and getting 80% of your gold turned to dust can be a real kick in the balls.
>>
>>2932639
Single class: Sorcerer (Dragon Disciple is probably better than vanilla in the long run despite losing spells casts). If you don't mind reloading after run-killing wild surges Wild Mage is nearly equal.

If talking overall effectiveness while being pretty much a single class caster, Berserk(9/13)->Mage is stupidly overpowered. Any other fighter (barbarian is actually its own class despite being under fighter and can't dual) kit dualed to Mage is pretty much on par with all the other options mentioned in overall effectiveness. I however strongly recommend against dualing for newer players as it ends up being very meta-gamey, grindy or cheese-abusive to bridge the dualing process in xp. And an elf fighter/mage will at any point be pretty much as powerful if not more so than any dualed F->M, apart from the immunities granted from bersereking which are very good.
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>>2932639
Tabletop? Mage.
Videogame? Sorcerer.
Reason? Spells can interact with environment and have alternative implementations in tabletop, so adaptability is valued over casting quantity. The spell use is much stricter in videogames since there is no DM to asses the possibility of the alternative implementations of spells, therefore it is more preferable to have a list of reliable spells you can cast often.

Hotel? TrivaACK...
>>
Baldurs gate 3 will have warlocks, what is their shtick?
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>>2932709
sorcerers for lazy people with bad tastes
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>>2932709
Eldritch BLAST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIk9zeY8K8&ab_channel=BenjaminPollard-Grayson
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>>2921918
oh no, you don't get forced into rescuing Imoen and get locked out of free exploration for half the game, how boring
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>>2923920
I shouldn't be surprised by this after the second game retconned my party into Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid and fucking MINSC
Sequels that make your choices meaningless is Bioware's signature move
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>>2932731
but it's in the hands of larian now
I don't know how they will ultimately handle the IP and lore, but at least so far no one has tried to push A.A. as some kind of strong canon figure
he just kinda exists in those shitty supplementary materials
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>>2932736
>but it's in the hands of larian now
you are correct
they both suck
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>>2932731
They literally picked the most popular party and if you play bg1 "normally" mostly following the plot in the beginning the party you'll end up with would be imoen, jaheira, khalid minsc and dynaheir. You obviously do get Xzar and Montaron right after Imoen, but the vast majority of people played good-leaning parties.

I'm not really defending the retconning, mostly just saying how they arrived to that decision. It's the party most people ended up with playing the game for the first time. Yeah they could have handled it differently but it's not really a stretch to headcanon it to helpful people trying to keep the bhaalspawn on the straight and narrow. And you can dismiss them the instant you meet them in bg2. The biggest lore conflict would be having kept edwin in bg1 in favor of dynaheir and minsc.
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>>2932753
>the vast majority of people played good-leaning parties
I've never understood that kind of thing. What's wrong with having an evil/self-serving party member or two?
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>>2932753
>you're playing the same character
>but not really because we undid every single choice you made, including your choice of party
>players loved Minsc, so you retroactively are best friends with him
>but you get to keep the pantaloons for a stupid quest

Yeah the characters were popular, yeah it let them write more involved plot, but whatever their reasons, it was a bad choice that ruined the continuity between the games.
there's no reason to play the same character except to keep your stat bonuses. might as well just make a new one instead
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>>2932760
Most devs who give you the choice to be play selfishly/evil do a terrible job of implementing it, but it takes a special sort of cheek to say 'okay player, you had your fun but you didn't really make the evil choices now did you'
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>>2932760
In a game, nothing really. Most people just instinctively want to see the good, or best, ending possible, especially for their first playthrough. Playing evil is kind of a different flavour you go experience to see how differently things could turn out.
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>>2932760
ToB has this neat narrative thing going for it with you being a godling so even evil party members will be drawn towards working with you since the potential for power you hold and you're desperate for any competend help for the trials ahead of you, alignments be damned.
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>>2932765
I can't and don't even want to defend the "canonisizing" of party members, but it's literally only a problem for the first time you meet them in the "tutorial" dungeon. After that it never comes up again if you ditch the party members. It's literally a couple sentences worth of dialogue in the whole game. Could have been done better, sure.
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>>2932786
>but it's literally only a problem for the first time you meet them in the "tutorial" dungeon

ah, but anon, you're forgetting that some of us have a touch of the 'tism
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>>2932774
I think being straight up evil is kind of a mindfuck. People don't usually want to be evil in real life. Even when they do evil things they usually justify them with some mental gymnastics. In a fantasy world where alignment is real (mostly for mechanical gameplay purposes) choosing evil means you've specifically chosen to be a dick by default. People can scan you with magics and it reads out in clear letters: CUNT. And it's unarguably correct per the rules of the world. Playing evil is a choice you make out of interest to see how differently things might turn out (or for being edgy) and there's nothing wrong with that, the "problem" is mostly just with how D&D handles alignments as absolute truths with little room for nuance. Evil in D&D is often the same evil a saturday morning cartoon villain is.
Systems without alignment handle human morality in ways that make more sense.
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>>2932774
>>2932776
No, I just mean bringing one along. Useful people are useful as long as they can work with you, no need to make a full "good guy team", it adds a bit of spice. It used to be somewhat common in parties around the 2nd edition era, especially since you aren't supposed to know people's alignment without using magic. I never really liked the reputation thing because of that, so I'd just game it with random assault.
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>>2932736
I don't think there's any way that Larian can handle it worse than the way that WotC has shat over it ever since 5e dropped
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>>2932796
It's roleplaying, it doesn't have to mesh with human psychology that no one can actually agree on in reality either. This complaint is a meme.
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>>2932796
There's some appeal in the path less traveled, making choices and seeing how things can be different across playthroughs
Yes, D&D has a very simplistic view of alignment but that's fine, it's just cool to be given the option to play a bad guy in a choice driven game and disappointing when it's handled badly or retconned
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>>2932807
I wasn't complaining or even disagreeing really. Essentially making the same point as in >>2932811 , it's an experience. Often it doesn't really make sense, but it's an experience.
>>
>pick evil companion in companion based RPG
>either all other companions have to be evil or the evil companion will inevitably force an ultimatum on you
And that's why you can sit there in town forever butty
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>>2932774
>>2932801
I mean, apart from reputation and inter-party conflicts nothing is stopping you from taking evil party members along. The reputation thing is kinda annoying, sure, but evil party members mostly interested in self-gain just randomly hopping on to a party of good hearted world savers with no complaints would be somewhat odd too. Wanting to get riches and power but constantly getting dragged into doing what amounts to volunteer work for the less fortunate would be sure to ultimately make the more self serving types say "fuck this" and bail out. There is literally nothing stopping you from keeping the evil party members if you make even a few choices suiting their alignment (not getting/losing rep). I somehow liked the mod that added bards to inns that could lower your reputation by spreading scary legends and tales about you to keep up appearances.
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>>2932878
Yeah, I'm talking about player preference, not feasibility, I already said I game it to keep them around. The rep shit is just dumb overall though.
>>
The "canon" party isn't the most popular, the most popular set of companions in BG1 were the ones they brought over, and Viconia and Edwin are evil. They literally just picked the top 5 most played with, which is why Dynaheir and Khalid are dead, because Jaheira and Minsc were substantially more popular than their pair. The "canon" party is set up like that because in lore it makes no sense to beat BG1 with a party of Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia and Edwin, but that does not mean people weren't playing with evil companions.
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>>2921555
S.nexjjsjsj
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>>2932639
Sorcerer easy.
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>>2932953
I thought the most popular were the tutorial characters? Xan and Branwen - if you weren't playing mage or cleric MC, then they were imo more popular options than Edwin and Viconia and fit better into parties, due to their neutral alignment
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>>2933798
They weren't unpopular, but the decision of which BG1 party members to move to BG2 was literally the result of popularity data during development. Edwin and Viconia are also easier to recruit than Xan and Branwen.
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> SHE RESISTS... SHE CLINGS TO HER OLD LIFE AS IT ACTUALLY MATTERS. SHE WILL LEARN.
> Torture? Silly girl, you just don't understand what I'm doing...
> Enough, I haven't the time for this! Your pathetic magics are useless! Let this end!
> You bore me, mageling! You may take me in, but you will take the girl as well!
> You will suffer! You will ALL suffer!
> So, godchild, you have escaped. You are more resourceful than I thought...
> I won't let you leave, not when I'm so close to unlocking your power!
> Enough! I will no longer listen to the blabbering of ignorant children.
> Must I be interrupted at every turn?! Enough of this.
> It's a portrait of what has happened or what may happen. Will you cling to the past, or can you see through the pain? Do you feel the potential within?
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>>2934005
>no I Cannot Be Caged
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>>2932953
Never had much issue with them making BG1 canon party in BG2. I always imagined evil playthroughs being the result of Iren's mindfuck - you do canonically begin good but Pinman overwrites your memories to fit those befitting to the Child of Bhaal, BG1 being those new memories, hence the bewildered reaction to evil actions by your starting party. Doesn't explain how a pally can become a blackguard that way after the ego death, but I think being the offspring of an evil god gets you enough planar attention to start bargaining with demons.
>>
>no bg1 vs bg2 debate itt
I was looking forward to it
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>>2934050
Feel free to start us off, I'll happily take part.
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>>2934047
Simply being a blackguard thanks to your ancestry is much easier headcanon.
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>>2934051
The removal of wilderness maps as well as the fact that there's an epic quest and scripted event around every corner in BG2 made it feel far less immersive than BG1.
The main quest also sucked because: 1. I don't care about Imeon, 2. Jon Irenicus is a dumb comic book villian, 3. Once you leave Athkatla it's very linear and restrictive
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>>2934075
Also Tales of the Sword Coast > Throne of Bhaal
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>>2934046
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>>2934075
I was sad and disappointed in BG2 due to the fact that the maps weren't continuous. I loved travelling around the Sword Coast.
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>>2934087
>I loved travelling around the Sword Coast.
No you didn't
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>>2934075
>removing the boring filler makes BG2 less immersive
BG1 is designed as a D&D sim, BG2 is designed to be a video game. Wandering empty maps in search of a minor fetch quest is not really engaging gameplay.
Imoen isn't all that relevant if you don't want her to be. Besides a couple of compulsory conversations can just dump her.
I think Irenicus is carried hard by being mysterious for the vast majority of the game and having a great voice actor. His backstory isn't all that interesting but that doesn't matter when you don't know about it for the vast majority of the game.
>once you're done all the side content in BG2 it's very linear
How very unusual.
>>
BG2>BG1 is my personal opinion but they are fundamentally two different experiences and both excel at what they are supposed to be.
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>have tried to play the series multiple times starting with 1
>always bounced off because 1 is fucking terrible and the ugliest IE game with bad writing
>get further than I've ever gotten
>almost to the point where I go back to candlekeep
>get sidetracked on this absolutely shit quest that leads to an island of werewolves
>can't muster up the will to continue
I'm considering just importing my character to Siege of Dragonspear. It's not like the writing quality can be worse.
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>>2934209
The Island of Werewolves isn't great, but believe me SOD is worse.
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>>2934307
>SOD is worse
Given that the Beamdog companions that people seethe so much about have some of the better writing in the game compared to the cringe hamster man or the endless generic NPCs I'm not inclined to believe all the hearsay I've heard on here about it.
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>>2934315
Well okay man, skip to it and play it. The world is your oyster, no one stopping you.
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>>2934209
>because 1 is fucking terrible and the ugliest IE game with bad writing
Zoomer.
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>>2921614
So I'm not the only one.
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>>2934209
Just jump to BG2 and recreate your character in its CC.
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I have a hard time finishing the game because I keep wanting to make new characters :(
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>>2934444
This char will be inferior to the one who finished BG1 due to being 1 stat point lower in all Attributes and 3 stat points lower in Wisdom.
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>>2934504
You could just edit the save file instead of complaining.
Playing SoD and importing to BG2 is basically cheating anyway.
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Were there any classes, races, subclasses and so on missing from 2nd edition in baldurs gate?
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>>2934562
It has all the options from the base players handbook, and a number of kits and such from supplements. But it's not even close to everything from every supplement. There were a LOT.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:Classes/Character_Kits
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>>2934453
I partially solved this by creating 3 characters (in "multiplayer" mode). You can still bring along a couple of NPCs and keep them or have them along just to do their quests without getting crowded.
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>>2934453
>>2934712
Obviously only one of them will be the "charname" bhaalspawn, the first one added to the party list if I recall correctly.
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>>2934111
>Wandering empty maps in search of a minor fetch quest is not really engaging gameplay.
I guess it made sense when the main plot involved getting to the next destination but not when going to get subquests to pay for the next chapter.
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I was looking at baldurs gate 3 stuff and races now have sub races which is neat, but wild mage has been moved to be a kit of sorcerer instead of mage, how come?
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>>2934877
I don't think many people on this board are that interested in bg3 with it being unfinished and whatnot. Better to wait for the final product.
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>>2934877
>but wild mage has been moved to be a kit of sorcerer instead of mage, how come?
5th edition
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>>2934883
>bg3
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>>2934111
>wandering empty maps in search of a minor fetch quest isn't engaging gameplay
This is the mindset of a completionist, and RPGs back then were designed around immersion and not completionism. The designers wanted players to stumble on content organically as if it were a tabletop game, and intentionally would make some content very hard to find in order to increase the illiusion of the world having infinite possibilities. BG2 marked the shift away from this design philosophy and into the more heavily theme park oriented design of modern RPGs and open world games. I've personally become tired of theme park style worlds which is why I mostly play RPGs from the early 90s these days.
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>>2935000
well, I am a completionist and I love mowing the fog of war lawn
to each their own
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>>2935011
Fair enough. I used to be a completionist too, but i think it's very hard to enjoy older RPGs that way and using a guide becomes almost mandatory. Now I've embraced not being able to see everything in one playthrough, and it gives me a reason to look forward to replaying a game.
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>>2934990
???
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>>2935022
Probably a comment on 2 years of early access chapter 1
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>>2934990
>>2935045
The facebook-boomer meme format adds a layer of insincerety muddling the intent.
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>>2931897
>>2931957
Whats the mod to save her? Her art looks cute and she looks low int.
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I would trade all the new companions for just Caelar Argent being a full time companion or expanding on BG1/BG2 companions. The game already has a lot of companions to fit whatever niche you want.
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>>2934960
But what is the design philosophy behind the change
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Guys, I have a problem when I try to run the (((enhanced))) editions. It just shows a black window and maybe the cursor. Is that because of my Intel HD 5500 chip? Fucking tranny developers.
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>>2935218
Fug, I have a bunch of the more popular/recommended mods installed and I could swear I remember installing a component that kept Clara alive. But haven't run into it on my current playthrough as I don't need a thief. But a quick google mostly shows a separate mod. I guess google is your friend here, it seems to be bunched as an option to some Mazzy mod (which I did not install) at least. You can probably only install the module you want.
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Is Temple of Elelmental Evil any good? I remember trying it multiple times but I always quit before entering the temple
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>>2935512
It's a 3.0 (not 3.5, altough the difference is small) combat simulator. With lots of trash mobs. And minimal out-of-combat interaction.

It's good for what it is and does a great job modeling the turn-based combat rules, but I remember it being a minor hassle to install on modern systems and if I recall correctly the fan-made mod/fixpack is not only recommended but pretty much mandatory for a good experience (circle of eight or something?). If you like turn-based (3.0/3.5) combat it's great as that's what it's all about.
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>>2935582
And despite having a bunch of a bit too samey encounters it has lots of well designed interesting encounters too. Gets a while to get going properly (inside the temple really) and you need to have a decent grip of the combat (rules).
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>>2935512
wtf, why someone make pics like this. Took me longer to wrap my head around this than tomato satania.
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>>2935601
Just look at the thumbnail from the corner of your eye and it's obvious.
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The most fun I've had solo was a illusionist/thief multi. Most fun party was a trio of a a blade, assassin and an avenger druid. They could kind of cover the bases with arcane, divine, thief skills and melee. Not OP, so force me to use items and read spell scrolls etc.
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>>2935777
I had a similiar run of bg1 with a trio of thief/illusionist, dwarven defender and a cleric/ranger (without the cheesing and "illegal" spells). Good fun.
I just keep coming back to these games year after year and it's not like I don't like any newer games, I really enjoyed CP2077 and it's gotten a lot of hate from grognards and lots of calls of "not-an-rpg". I am starting to boomerify but apart from the UI here and there the IE games just hold up to the test of time (the inventory management is perhaps the worst thing about the game after you've played it for a while even though it can be somewhat remedied by minor mods and tweaks).

also nice digits
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>>2935220
Caelar is a literal retard though
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>>2935022
>>2935045
>>2935060
it was meant to be silly but also comming from over a decade and a half of baldursgate love/hate BG3 is not overtly bluehair but considering the companions are so "modern" i cant be arsed to give a shit about them.
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>>2935909
I love retarded women!
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>>2932731
>muh choices became irrelevant, fuck canon
it's been 20 years and like today, only autists were complaining about that shit
>>
BG1 and 2 had some great villains, does BG3 live up to that part at least.
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>>2935789
>defender

I always liked parties of 3-4, makes you get all you can out of the members. I guess the faster leveling helps keep things going as well. T/M also has some insane perks that help a lot with the tactics style mods, like Detect Illusion.
Agree on the infinite awesomeness of IE games as well. They just managed to hit something that hasn't quite been surpassed yet.
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>>2936482
>Agree on the infinite awesomeness of IE games as well. They just managed to hit something that hasn't quite been surpassed yet
It's the engine, it works incredibly well for a crpg. Feels very smooth to play, fast loading times, very moddable, allows to create beautiful areas, implement really cool magic and pickpocket/kill any NPC. Something like Unityshit is unbelievably janky in comparison. Even Aurora Engine was fucking terrible at times.
>>
>>2936597
The sad reality is that despite the techical limitations of their time the devs were so many leagues ahead of current developers in competency that the end result was better than anything that has been achieved with more modern tools and technology. And I guess the character models are just detailed enough to know what you're looking at but blurry enough to leave room for the imagination. Super sharp and crisp 4K super HD textures leave little room for imagination and all and any flaws become painfully apparent. It becomes nearly impossible to ignore them, or much harder at least. Do I remember correctly that they made something like clay models for a lot of the characters or something?

Real innovation and "soul" just doesn't happen by corporate committees. Games should be pretty much made to order by dedicated craftsmen funded by connoisseurs (no, kickstarter is not the same). But I know that's not gonna happen, mass market appeal and large amounts of sales is where games industry is now. And you can't rely on grognards for your livelyhood. Sometimes the stars do align just right though, huffing hopium that they still sometimes might.
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>>2936683
I don't know the excact terminology or theory behind it, but I recall from some random hobby art studies (I have a "real job" thank god) that limiting the tools you have can somewhat unintuitively result in better creativity and innovation by the artist since you "working with what you have" forces you to be more creative and you can't just pick up a premade solution off the shelf for every problem you come across during the creative process. It's literally the "hard/soft men, hard/soft time"-meme in a microcosm.
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>>2936683
I guess it boils down to the philosophy of the approach: are you manufacturing a product to be sold and consumed or a piece of art to be appreciated. And no, you don't need to be a stuck up piece of shit to consider something you or someone else is creating to be "art". If success is measured in dollars and euros it's obviously going to kill off many parts of products (or entire pieces of work) that don't fit the mold.
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>>2936683
I didn't personally enjoy Pentiment that much but I guess that's a good point: I can still appreciate that such a passion/vanity project was done despite it definately not fitting the product pipeline mold. I'm sure someone else got huge kicks out of something catering to such a niche thing. And that makes me happy.
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>>2936435
BG3 hasn't had it revealed yet but the main villain is Bhaal, who if he's anything like his BG appearances is angry and stupid.
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>>2936435
we don't really know who the villain/s are yet. Right now it's the "absolute" which could be a front for the dead three, or a cabal of super illithids, or both or something. also there are drow involved. who knows
>>
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>mage/thief elf for that sweat invisibility backstab with Dakkon's katana
>fighter/mage elf, snipe them with longbow and wear armor till you get strong enough to blast them with spells - also I like how psycho that elf looks
>fighter/thief half-orc for additional backstabs and traps, this time with extrastrength and wrapped in fashionable leather
>fighter/cleric half-orc, dual hammer time and buffs
>cleric/thief half-orc utility healtrapslut so other teammembers can focus on the interesting stuff
>mage/cleric half-elf, another support nerd, made for bullying

Could this party make it in Legacy of Bhaal?
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>>2937292
Easily, Legacy of Bhaal is just bloated HP, AC and THAC0 values.
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>>2931319
I heard they were going with AA protag but fuck I hope the name is the only thing they take from that refuse.

Nevermind that child of Bhaal is a 7ft 0 int mongoloid in the books, they also paint my nigga Khalid as a total asshole.
>>
>>2932254
Shoot your own party with arrows of dispelling
to counter his bullshit. Or yeah potion of mirrored eyes as that other anon said.
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>>2936683
I think its because the barrier to entry now is way lower, so any number of talentless hacks can churn out souless drivel with relative ease.
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>>2933818
>Edwin and Viconia are also easier to recruit than Xan and Branwen
Edwin, yes, but none of the other three are directly on the path of the main quest. Xan is closest, then Branwen, and Viconia is easily missable.
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>>2938706
Branwen isn't on the path of the main quest, at no point do you need to go to Nashkel Carnival. And then you need to talk to the halfling, and get his scroll (or have one on you), then use it. It makes sense with game logic but its not the easiest thing in the world to stumble on. And for Xan, I KNOW there are people who go fight Mulahey and never see him in his cave because they don't bother looking.

Viconia is harder to find than Edwin sure but she's also easy to just stumble across since shes on the side of the map you arrive on, and she initiates dialogue with the party when seen.
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>>2938710
She is also evil drow slut and nobody should want that in their party.
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>>2938903
>Kivan (the "good" ranger) when Viconia dies
"May Viconia's soul rot in Hell"
>Viconia (the "evil" drow) when Kivan dies
"It's a shame that Kivan and I never got to understand each other"
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>>2938903
>evil
yes
>drow
yes
>slut
hang on
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>>2938710
>And then you need to talk to the halfling, and get his scroll (or have one on you), then use it. It makes sense with game logic but its not the easiest thing in the world to stumble on
He comes up to you and tells you there's a woman trapped in stone that he has a scroll to release. The only thing you might not do is go to the carnival, but even then it's visible on your map the instant you learn about Nashkel.
>>
>>2921555
>play role playing game
>ask others to make the roleplay choices for you
>>
>>2921918
Best one. You're a real loser.
>>
Just realized how fucking busted shorty saves are. What the hell were they thinking? -5 saves basically for free, more than the Human Flesh (where applicable), midgets truly are the master race.
>>
>>2940022
Limited classes.
Limited height. Even ingame it locks you out of most romances.
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>>2940025
>Even ingame it locks you out of most romances.
Disregard thots, acquire power, seems like a plus tbqh
>>
Thats only for high con. Which you only have because you rerolled

2nd edition balances around the game itself and non math factors, rather than just making the numbers line up, which is why the math and numbers are the same in 2nd and 3rd and generally for 5th, but fighters are basically the best class until 13th level in 2nd edition, but theyre the worst class in every edition every level after 3rd
>>
>>2936685
>>2936683
Theres also the fact that 3rd edition and on is fundamentally a different tabletop game with different dungeons, different expectations, different gameplay strategies

The only thing that didnt change is the math

Its hard to make a good game when the mist strategic spells in 2nd edition dont even function the way they are supposed to in later editions
>>
>>2940627
>Thats only for high con. Which you only have because you rerolled
If you've got a shorty fighter with low con because you didn't reroll, you're either stupid or you rolled like a 25 or something. Its literally the most important stat.
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>>2940676
Old rolling methods didnt let you reassign points. A shorty with a good con is not likely to have any other good stats. Thats the tradeoff, they are extremely hardy, ridiculously hardy. More hardy than it is possible to become in any other edition. But their general utility otherwise is much less

Personally, I like this
>>
why are you people allergic to putting the game in the subject, i was looking to talk about BG a few days ago and I couldn't find the thread
I forgot what I wanted to talk about, so I'll just say Cernd is garbage
>>
>>2941414
>insect plague
>crawling death
>natures beauty
>garbage
uh
>>
>>2940627
>only for high con
A fucking 4 gives -1 to all saves. Halflings have a minimum of 10 CON, so they will always have at least -2 saves, and you only need 14 CON for -4. Dwarves are at a minimum 12 CON, so -3 saves guaranteed. Gnomes are a minimum 8 CON, so -2 saves. Even if you don't have the bonus capped, it's insane. Throw in the permanent CON bonuses throughout the game and you might jump up another -1 or -2 saves. Midges can also be barbs and clerics, so they can easily boost their CON to godly levels for godly saves. Or you can just gulp a potion of constitution.
>>
>>2941460
Spell saves are important but liyerally almost anything in 2e can one shot you. Even rae damage. Its only a big advantage when everything is metagamed
>>
>be a wild mage who's a huge liability to any party
>be on the run from red wizards and need to be handheld through life to survive
>be clicked on to receive orders in combat
>"What is it THIS time..."
>be astonished when the main character doesn't want you along anymore since the game throws companions at them every step of the way

bitch
>>
>>2941445
I meant more his personality. I like to let him run off to the grove with his kid and never pick him back up so I can pretend he's actually being a responsible father
>>
>>2941934
Neeras a huge bitch, yes. Her early romance dialogue in BG2 is especially bad, and thats before she reveals that (if you romanced her in SoD) she cheated on you and lost her virginity to some random dude.
>>
>>2941937
His epilogue just highlights that after the adventure he doesn't change either.
>>
Neera Gib any%
>recruit Neera
>start Garrick's little quest thing
>wait for the mage to cast Lightning Bolt
>>
>>2942049
>not just backstabbing her before recruiting
>>
>>2942032
True. Also, the bitch turns into an annoying schizo in SoD. Fuck SoD.
>>
>>2921555
Wouldn't metagaming actually be the most immersive? (as long as you don't multi-class) As you would think that someone who risks their life daily would naturally train to be the peak in strength for whatever class they are training in.



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