Focus on combat is what kills RPGsIf you're developing an RPG, the combat should be close to the bottom on your list of priorities
>>2920748I agree. Waifus are the most important.
CautionautionWeebtard faggots making a slide thread. Ignore and hide.
>>2920752AI generated reply
>>2920748Not focusing on combat is what gets you Planescape Torment and Disco Elysium
>>2920784>Not focusing on combat is what gets you Masterpieces.Yeah maybe we should get rid of combat altogether
>Focus on combat is what kills RPGsis this how CRPG faggots are coping now?No, focusing on gameplay mechanics isn't what kills RPGs. Your visual novels aren't RPGs.
>>2920792>Combat is all there is to gameplayAbsolute braindead retard you are.>>>/v/
>>2920784Yes and Disco Elysium is one of the best RPGs ever made.
>>2920795>>Combat is all there is to gameplayYesBack to >>>/lgbt/ to discuss your gay sex visual novels
>>2920797You're a mindbroken troon
>>2920800amerimutt moment
>>2920748Oh so that's why you only enjoy bethesdashits, soulsshits and other jarshits.
most rpgs that aren't d:os / bg2 / iwd / arcanum have awful combat, so clearly they aren't focusing on it enoughhowever i do think there should be more combat/roleplaying integration, an obvious and easy example from infinity engine games is certain items or spells being usable only by specific alignment characters, holy smite not dealing damage to good aligned characters and so on, but they don't really have an alignment system that would react to your decisions and don't go nearly far enoughit would be interesting to have a game which for example gives evil-coded classes an advantage early on but provides them much worse scaling later, to represent high time preference and inability to delay gratification
>>2920748Wrong. Gameplay is the most important part of any game. And combat is the purest expression of gameplay. Cyoashit is not gameplay. Storyfaggots needs to fuck off to inferior medium like movies, comics and books
>>2920816on what planet does arcanum have good combat? why did you bother to type this out if you have no idea what you are talking about? keep ignorant opinions to yourself.
>>2920748You are vaguely correct. Combat should exist at the intersection of every single decision you've made so far, how you built your character, who you've pissed off, what equipment do you have on hand. Combat doesn't need to be refined and satisfying, rather you should get satisfaction from seeing all these decisions roll together into a beautiful result.
>>2920816>arcanum>good combat
>>2920789>>2920796Take meds
>>29207482/10
>RPG literally means ROLE PLAYING GAME'>YOU PLAY A ROLE IN A GAME WORLD>"NOOOO IT'S ALL ABOUT THE COMBAT AND ONLY COMBAT!!!"When did the RPG genre became a refugee for people who lack the skill to play actual action games on the spectrum from DOOM to DMC and flock to RPGs because they let them to compensate the lack of skill via stats?
Underrail is based because of its combat focus.
>>2920854Some may argue that role-playing includes building your characters and all that stuff. It's honestly interesting how much of a divide there is between storyfags and gameplayfags. In an ideal world you'd have both elements complement each other.
>>2920816>most rpgs that aren't d:os / bg2 / iwd / arcanum have awful combatthe games you named have awful combat like most of the IsoMEMEteric CRPG's
>>2920854Yes, it's about role-playing your role in combat.
>>2920854I really don't know, especially given how easy it is to break RPGs in general.
>>2920854if you consider shit like Pentiment to be a RPG then you should stop posting on this board and fuck off back to /lit/
>>2920866>>>/vg/wowg/
>>2920854Combat roleplaying is equally important
>>2920871I hope you also hold the same opinion of Disco Elysium and Planescape Torment.
>>2920875planescape torment has combat though
>>2920875Twitter Elysium and Redditscape Torment are point & click/visual novel garbage not RPG's>>2920877irrelevant
>>2920877Which only makes up 2% of the game
The truth is, games like Leddit Elysium are just as bad as Cuckfinder.If an RPG doesn't give you a full freedom to be a genocidal maniac or a Ghandi diplomat and eanything between that spectrum, it's a bad game.Disco is just as bad as Pathfinder because one just showers you with nothing but dialogue and the other one does the same with combat encounters (let's be real, the dialogue in Pathfinder are so terribly writen everyone is skipping them).And to those of you who came here from tumblr and think the picture attached is the posters avatar or something anon likes: pic unrelated, just randomly selected by the algorythm
>>2920924So which RPG gives you total freedom?
>>2920939Nothing. Total freedom would mean there are no rules which goes against the fundamental concept of games, even more so in RPGs. What we're looking for is deep and organic systems that helps enhance the main fantasy of a game. For example, if you make a detective RPG, every system or rules in that game should be about fulfilling that detective fantasy. No colored loot trash, no checklist Ubishit, no lazy numbers-go-up progression, no piece of shit cutscenes, very minimal game dev intervention/nudges. No dev should put low IQ dice-rolling just because that's what most plebs think RPGs are about.
>>2920939Crusader kings 2Mount and Blade warband & bannerlordKenshi
>>2920965None of these are RPGs by the way
>>2920981>Mount and Blade>Kenshi>not RPGsSurely you jest
>>2920982
>>2920982>anon casts Summon Reterder Strawman
>>2920843>nooo stop discussing videogamesFuck off to /v/.
>>2920748No.
>>2920816Arcanum has the worst combat I've ever been through in an RPG and that bar is so low that it's in the Mariana Trench.
>>2920748Getting college degrees and writing books and shit to become a billionaire is honestly the best part of star ocean gamesThe cooking contest in so2 gHas so much soul
>>2920784>Planescape Torment and Disco ElysiumBoth of those are some of the best cRPG's ever made.
>>2920820what a smug little cuck you are, which youtube e-celeb did you get this correct non-ignorant opinion from?
>>2921035And yet neither of them are rpgs. >>>/lgbt/>>>/v/
>IWD is good>PST is badThe absolute state of 2023 RPG "fans".
>>2920748Focus on combat is what differentiates a CYOA from an RGP. If you don't focus on combat when developing your RPG, you're making a digital CYOA book.
>>2921061Both are bad Both have shit combat I cant believe that we actually consider IWD to be a proper combat based game. Are people here this retarded? Its just hordes of trash mobs with little to no encounter variety build autism or spellbattling Its consindered to be "Like Baldurs Gate but combat oriented" even tho its inferrior to BG in literally every single way imaginable LMAOPST is also not an RPG. Visual novels are not RPGs. How long before we start calling Life is Strange an RPG?
>>2921068>>2921060Fuck off, troll faggot.Better yet, kill yourself.
>>2921070>visual novels are not rpgs>trash mob combat encounters are not actually good>"YOU ARE UH, LE TROLL"kek
>>2921074Yes, you are. Stick to /v/, you mentally fragile pile of donkey shit.
>>2921075I've stated nothing but irrefutable facts, yet you are the one calling me the most diabolical insults you can come up with, telling me to kill myself and then telling me I'm mentally fragile... am I missing something? Visual novels are just not in the RPG genre anon. I'm sorry but it's just the way things are alright. IWD was also never good. ;(
>>2920748>if you want turn-based combat play a strategy game>if you want real-time combat play an action game>if you want role-playing play an RPGhow do people not understand this?
>>2920748>>2920784>>2920789>>2920795>>2920796>>2920854Uhhh, maybe read a book then? Or a hundred, and leave my hobby to people who actually want to PLAY the games.
>>2920816>ArcanumYou mean there's a version of that game where you aren't stuck in fumble hell and dropping your weapon out of reality every five hits?
>>2921068try getting past chapter 2>>2921217try turn based mode
RPG is a wargame with named characters, thats basically it. Since the RPG coming to digital form, there were invented many sub-genres, including the one with no combat, but thats it, sub-genre.
>>2921068LIS is a RPG, you are roleplaying as a mentally handicapped hipster girlin fact in LIS Before The Storm there is a section where you play a D&D game which is a purer and truer form of RPG than any CRPG posted ITT
>>2921167Playing DE and PS has a completely completely different experience from reading a novel. If you and the other retards who parrot this opinion stopped to actually read something or think for a single fucking second, this would be obvious.
>>2920748Sorry I want to play the fucking game, not read the game written by retard that try to pass for a "game dev" because he's too stupid to be a writter.
>>2920748Absolute retard take. Even in story heavy RPGs, the moments people always remember are the ones tied to the combat. That's because at the end of the day it's a Video GAME not a movie/visual novel.
>>2921345>the moments people remember are always tied to the combat lol
>>2921345Completely wrong
>>2921345>the moments people always remember are the ones tied to the combat.you can't be serious
>>2921345>the moments people always remember are the ones tied to the combatUh huh... And I am sure that if I were to bring up moments people remember from RPGs that had nothing to do with combat, you would say it's not an RPG. Because moments people remember from RPGs are combat.
>>2921345There are barely any games that tie story and combat together well so this can't be true.
>>2921345Ah yes, the easy to cheese and choring samey combat, truly the most memorable part of the story heavy RPG.Even in the "combat focused" RPGs the combat its awful and at best they pass for a poor tactics game. And I won't even start with D&D based cRPG combat, you need to be literally retarded to enjoy that. Again, the mongoloids like you believe that "go read a book" its an insult.
>>2920748>Focus on combat is what kills RPGs>Morrowind pic
>morrowindfaggot>extremely low quality threadWow, what a coincidence.
>>2921345While I don't think you're completely wrong, a lot of the memorable moments in combat tends to come from unique encounters or boss fights. For example, I think the Kraken fight in PoE1 is pretty cool and memorable. That being said, those types of fights are exceedingly rare, and whenever people think of memorable moments in an RPG they sure as hell won't be thinking about the numerous combat encounter with generic waves of enemies. They'll most likely think of some pivotal part of the story, like a confrontation with the big bad, a major twist, a character death etc. I get that this idea pisses of gameplay fags, but it's true. RPGs earned their reputation for storytelling, and while not every RPG is good at it, there are a lot that heavily rely on their story for memorability. In fact, the only RPG I can think of where the combat is at the forefront and manages to create a memorable experience is Dragon's Dogma, but some on this board would argue that it's not an RPG.
>>2920748why would you put interaction with the world on the bottom of your priorities?>hurr durr is combat the only way you interact?no you fucking moron that's not what i said, i said combat is a way that you interact with the world and this is an RPG, why would you backburner any part of interaction with the world?
>>2921345The only combat encounter I clearly remember is Disco Elysium's one, and that's hardly combat. Go eat a dick.
>>2920748Westaboos only think this because western developers can't make any combat worth a shit that isn't some variation of rooty-tooty-point-and-shooty. It's too "gamey" for them.
>>2920784>Not focusing on combat is what gets you Planescape Torment and Disco ElysiumSo, fantastic once-in-a-decade masterpieces? Seems the formula is solved.
>>2921426Oh yes because the super generic jrpg combat is so good
>>2921428You will never see anything like KH2FM from a western developer, and that game is practically ancient by now.
>>2921277>chess is an rpgPosts like this show why >>2920419 is the definitions /vrpg/ deserves, but not the ones it needs right now.
>>2921167Uhhh, maybe play an action game then? Or a hundred, and leave my hobby to people who actually want to PLAY the RPGs.
>>2920873All mmos, with no exception, are shit games with shit combat. They are the lowest form of games, maybe tier above mobile turds at best. Why would I want to waste my time on WoW?
>>2920748Combat is very important if it's a huge portion of what you do. >>2920784Don't compare a CRPG with the straight tabletop rules to a visual novel retard. You clearly didn't play the game. >>2920789I hate this whole zoomer thing of people watching videos about stuff. At least you didn't give those communist homosexuals any money. >>2920795It's a core part of most games. Any good story needs a conflict. Most of what you are doing in most RPGs is centered around combat.
>>2921778>Any good story needs a conflict.Brainlet meme
>>2921778>Don't compare a CRPG with the straight tabletop rules to a visual novel retard. You clearly didn't play the game. DE is based on the dev's own tabletop system, retard.
Always knew BG/IWD/Cuckfinder fags were the bottom of the barrel plebs but wow.
>>2920748Quite a retarded hot take>If you're developing an RPG, the combat should be close to the bottom on your list of prioritiesIs the same thing as saying gameplay doesn't matter in your video games.>Focus on combat is what kills RPGsCombat and simulations the only things computers are good at.
Focus on combat kills *CRPGs* they are better off without them. Hence Disco Elysium.JRPGs have cool and addicting combat. These RPGs are better with them.
>>2920750Learn what waifu means newfag
>>2920748It is just a minor point/symptom in the grand scheme of what actually killed RPGs, appealing to the lowest common denominator console gamers
>>2922003>gameplay is only combatRetard
>>2922010Trying too hard, kid.
>>2920748RPG's are not all about story, and we all know how many different genre's of RPG's there are. You may not like most of them, but people like different things. Stop being fags and just accept that fact. Design your own RPG if your autism can't let you have fun.
>>2920748spotted the newfag. The most importan thing in RPGs is the combat and gameplay. Everything else is not important.
>>2920792>Your visual novels aren't RPGs.THIS. I have enough of faggots who wants to tell me that games like FFXIV are (J)RPGs. This games are just bad written visual novels with tiny gameplay segments.
>>2920837There are zero (0) games that do anything particularly interesting with that stuff.
>>2920792Visual novel's aren't are RPG's because there's no real roleplaying of any kind not because of lack of combat
>>2922288In rpgs, combat is usually the primary mode of gameplay with character building the supporting feature. Sometimes there is survival or crafting mechanics. Exploration is nice, but it's not really an aspect of gameplay since it's usually something like holding down w until you want the character to stop or to move to the position you go to. That's pretty much just how google earth works and google earth isn't a game. If there isn't a mechanical ruleset like fatigue and survival mechanics or stealth mechanics which you have to manage your character according to while exploring or moving your character around there is no gameplay. Dialogue is not gameplay either.
>>2920820>>2920841>>2920864>>2921013>>2921217nta but Arcanum's combat does become tolerable once you've got points in melee/ranged or invest in magic like a chad. I do agree though that the early game can be an almost Baldur's Gate 1-tier slog early one precisely because of all the fumbling and accidental crit fails you'll end up doing.
>>2923355I always go to Liam's Workshop early and save scum the fuck out of those single pulls for easy levels.
>>2922410Combat is the least interesting form of gameplay for an rpg.
>>2922410RPGs are not about combat
>>2923891yes, but good combat makes game even better.
>>2923891
>Focus on combat is what kills RP->*ACK*
>>2923931Dropped this one 3 hours in and replayed IV, a superior SMT
>>2924031>Dropped this one 3 hours inlol you didn't even reach Ginza (where the game really starts to shine) you faggot
>>2920854Sweet, I played the role of a sniper in Cawadoody. That's an RPG because I played a role, right? Defining a term using the term itself is idiotic and senseless, and in this case specifically it's too broad to have any meaning.
>>2920748agreed, most RPGs really shouldn't have combat at all. It's such a dull mechanic to base ALL your problem solving around, in a good TTRPG campaign you might go multiple sessions without a combat encounter, videogames should be no different
>>2921405Darkest Dungeon. Ye ye, not RPG, whatever. Its combat is RPG combat, and its generated insane amount of memorable moments for lots of people. Via combat alone.
>>2924062any game that cant hook you in less than an hour is inherently badly designed. If your story needs more than that to wind up, its fine, but you will need every other aspect of the game to be good enough to pick up the slack until that point.
>>2925591The older I get the more I agree with this. I can still be a little forgiving for games with slow starts if they show me something interesting enough that I want to see more. But a bog standard JRPG opening where nothing happens for the first 6 hours is not gonna keep my attention when I could go play a roguelike that's engaging from character creation
>>2925692>roguelikegay
>>2925694sorry I don't want to walk to the top of the town's local mountain then meet all the villagers and then got to the royal city and hang out in the sewer for 2 more hours before the plot starts instead of having a more interesting experience in the first 20 minutes of a CDDA run
>>2921778>conflict means combatretard
>>2920965>>2920982>total freedom>kenshi>can't have wife or sex
>>2920748Ok, I'll bite... name a single non-combat JRPG or JRPG where the combat is optional besides Undertale (if it even counts).
>>2927640nta but why does it have to be a jrpg
>>2927648Probably because he thinks every WRPG is something that can be beat by just pumping CHR/persuasion and you never have to do any combat ever
>>2927628Good, I want to be free from animalistic tendencies that shackle human potential
>>2920957>No dev should put low IQ dice-rolling just because that's what most plebs think RPGs are aboutDice or rather the probability they represent has been a pillar of RPGs going all the way back into table top. Getting rid of them is stupid. Rather I feel like the game should allow me enough of an autistic control over my modifiers through several different mechanics and systems I can heavily skew the "dice" at the cost of other avenues of play. Also the game needs to react to my decisions in as many different and impactful ways as possible. That last one is what I'd argue is makes a game a role play game.
>>2929678Not in video games, no they're not. Roollers are the cancer of TTRPGs, about the same level as munchkin faggots and even more deranged than bandwagon nu-DnD NPCs.>"nobody gives a shit about the campaign">"world? im just here for the coombat">"can I rooll to fuck that wombat?">"D20 makes me hard">"DM, I-I'm rooooooolling!"Cancer.
>>2929704Other people are the cancer of TTRPGs. Take the solopill.
>>2920748OutnaynderTake a look at my cheddaw, outnyanderThese bewts OwO awgony Weather
>>2929779Hey that's pretty good.
>>2920748bro, you dropped your mirror. here you go.
>>2929704Don't blame the system for having shit players.
>>2920752He's right though. It's a ROLEPLAYING game after all.
>>2920748Nah it should be like 3rd or 4th, but definitely not at the dead bottom.I get that RPG's aren't 100% about the combat, but pretending that it shouldn't matter at all is equally as brain dead.Removing the combat side just turns it into a pseudo-visual novel where you have certain story paths locked behind stats that you level rather then choice (which as DE has shown can still be good, but you don't make genre sweeping judgements based off a sub-category)Combat is important, but unless you want an arpg or something more complex then most isos or classic jrpgs you have more pressing matters like the story and opportunities for play choice/expression.
>>2920748Roleplaying as an unstoppable, unrelenting murderhobo of a conqueror > some faggot "negotiator" who begs the bad guy for mercy by pressing a handful of text boxes. The latter is an absolute waste of valuable resources better spent on empowering exploration, character growth options and battlepic unrelated, puzzles to confound and dazzle the mind is also worth investing in
Which is why disco is the greatest rpg ever made
>>2930280How many games let you play a pure negotiator, though?Most with speech skills have you be a roaming whirlwind of death 99% of the time who just happens to be able to talk it out when they slow down. Then they start spinning again once they leave the city's walls.
>>2927640>>2927648>>2927670Because a very well crafted and polished WRPG let you use speech and charisma to potentially skip encounters or remove entire game mechanics. Its the hallmark of polishing it enough that you can negotiate yourself away from having to fight everything.But 90% have you use Charisma as the dump stat, you blender fight your way trough everything, and very rarely get to use speech as anything but a blunt tool to get better rewards or blackmail people.Its a sign that anon has not played enough games, CRPG tends to be 60-80% combat, where a good portion of that combat is dedicated to building your character, and the rest depends on the setting.
>>2920748Focus on mechanics without regard for how said mechanics advance the setting the RPG is portraying, is what kills RPGs. Mechanics are added to RPGs for reasons no different than a book has text. It's a matter of "show don't tell". In video games, "show", means gameplay mechanics. Combat is a mechanic in RPGs because the stories being told are ones where people are fighting because people like those stories. A game about being a farmer, should to no surprise, include farming mechanics. But a game about being a cult leader should not include woodcutting, farming, fishing, and card games, for absolutely no reason other than the developer being creatively bankrupt and copy-pasting into their game every mechanic they could think of from other games they played.Missing the forest for the trees.
if ps:t and disco elysium are visual novels, then os2 and pf:wotr are strategy games.
>>2920792>>2920855This.>>2933796Yes
>>2920748What is modern Bethesda focusing on? The RPG mechanics are dumbed down but the combat still sucks.
>>2920748>putting combat encounters everywhere because you can't think of any other way to keep the player's attention: bad>having shit combat because "hurr it's an RPG, combat shouldn't be a priority": worse>doing both of the above at the same time, as Morrowind does: worst
>>2920784>>2920796>>2921035>>2921427based as fucking fuck
