What playthrough are you on, anons? What party are you rolling with?
>>2919217On remaster, trying to max out stats for all of Gradeus and Asellus team Mystics using the Huge Slime method plus Cheat Engine.Cheat Engine decided it needed an update to work, but the cunt who makes Cheat Engine packages it with a crapware installer which I can't get Windows to ignore. Tried compiling it and his compilation instructions are dogshit. His code tree looks like a hoarder's bathroom. I'm not going to give money some cunt who helps others scam his users and who refuses to write usable documentation.My only remaining option is to figure out how to mod either monster or character data for the remaster.
>>2919217Any play order recommendation for the series? I was planning on starting with FFL on GB.
I was thinking of starting Saga Frontier 2, any advice for that? I've played a good bunch of the games in the series now, but I hear it's pretty unique.
>>2919342you should probably look up a duel tech combination chart, that shit is pretty obnoxious to trial and error through.
>replaying RS2I do not remember this game being so fucking hard, jesus
>>2919217>What playthrough are you on, anons? This year is RS3. This game is amazing. Still doesn't beat RS2, but is easily one of the best games of all time too.>What party are you rolling with?Currently playing Khalid.
>>29192177th, with jamil, dowd, sif, diana, and dragon knightdowd is a huge wet blanket and I don't like playing jamil anymoreI'm gonna do another Claudia run after this to make Brau and Sylvan incredibly strongI'm going to fight to make up for my mistakeswe're going to survive
Why did jannies delete the old thread?Yet we have easily 20 necrobumper threads alive for months
>>2919670VIDEO GAME DISCUSSION BADMORROWIND SCHIZOPOSTING GOOD
>game punishes you for playing itfucking lol
>>2919987>game punishes you for playing badAh, you're such a poor baby.
>>2919319Production order if you want to see how the series evolves and not miss any of the references, otherwise just pick whatever looks cool to you, every game is self contained and has specific mechanics or design choices you won't see in other games.If you want suggestions regarding good entries for beginners, most people agree that the first Frontier and RS3 are good entry points, but mileage varies and you can easily start with the harder entries if you're not thin skinned and want to learn from inevitable mistakes.>>2919670It's not Bethesda trash, Owlcat waifuposting or Final Fantasy shitposting generals so it's bad and must be destroyed
Does this game need any guide/I wish i knew this before starting stuff? Only thing i remember was reading something that final boss was rough
>>2920163What I did was one initial playthrough where I just picked who I thought was coolest (Hawke) and just bumbled through, and then one where I looked at guides and went full completionist, had a pretty good experience that way imo
>>2920164Ah thats good to know, cheers
>>2920163Don't use guides, at least for your first playthrough, these games are open ended precisely to give you a sense of wonder and make exploration and discovery meaningful as you just stumble into things at your own pace for many playthroughs and then slowly start to see the bigger picture
>>2920135Thank You! if I bounce off of FFL I'll start with Frontier and RS3, but so far I'm enjoying my time.
I feel that if I don't make an effort to avoid fights I'll miss a lot of stuff. ER goes up fast
>RS3>Completely cleared the business game>explored the four demon lord castles but only ended up killing one demonhow far was I through the game?
>>2920163Open-ended series like this are meant to be explored. Guides ruin the point.>>2919319>>2920214The WonderSwan version of FFL has a crucial QoL improvement over the original Game Boy version in that you can see what your monster will transform into before committing to eating meat.
>>2920649RS3 is very open so it's hard the tell just through your info, did you go to the far east? Did you find Jackal and completed the tower of the god king? Did you stop Nacht Zweiger? You can beat the four demons without doing any of this including your MC's personal quest.The main quest is rather short, so if you only care about completing the game it's beat the four noble demons>enter the Abyss and beat the last boss, the only other mandatory quests outside of this are the prologue and activating Vanguard.
>>2921019Personal quests honestly too easy to miss.Its also too hard to play anyone else after having katrinas town music.
>>2920052I'm not the one fleeing every battle for a poorly implemented mechanic.
>>2920163SaGa games are designed for you to go with the flow. Shit may be "random" but in my experience, these games are tuned well enough that you get enough of what you need when you need it.
>>2919236Update: couldn't get cheat engine to compile, the compilation instructions are wrong apparently or maybe I fucked up.I caved and downloaded the lite version, and held my nose through the ad malware installer bullshit the money grubbing dev mandates.I used cheat engine to simplify huge slime grinding, by setting them to always available. Even then it took 50 fights for Liza to gain the last 7 charm from 92 to 99. Even tried setting her charm talent to 9, 16, 32, 64, 255: still wouldn't get those points.The maximum stat learn rate is absolute dogshit. Should be higher. But hey, the ladies (and Roufas) of Gradeus and the Asellus mystics who joined Emelia are all at max stats and ready for her final dungeon.
>>2921029Cute projection, baby.
>>2919670I'm convince there's a janny with a personal vendetta against saga at this point
>>2922213It's likely, I don't see any of those 3-4 month old threads bumped daily by a single schizo getting deleted.Yet we got two healthy and organic threads with hundreds of posts nuked for no reason.We can't even check advice and info, they're just gone.
I stalled out on my RS2 playthrough last month. I integrated the kingdom to the East and then headed down to the desert. Switched to playing through FFXI retail's story. Might come back to RS2 one day but not really feeling it.
>>2922213After two threads in a row getting deleted out of nowhere I'm kinda thinking that's the case.
Does anyone know how many hits you need to upgrade your weapon? I've read it's not encounter based but thread was kill so I couldn't read anymore
>>2922943it's semi-random and the number increases the higher the + number is
>>2919670I saw the thread in the bans archive, OP was evading or something
>>2919217First playthroughAlbert, Monica, Silver, Patrick, Frielei: Prepping for Saruin, currently they are around 600 HP average.Combined Sunray with Moonbeam and Mind Blast to make a pretty powerful version which costs 2 BP and has 800 or so power, I am dealing around 500 per attack, I could be making a 7 BP Blood Curdle which will do around 1k per attack, wanna keep trying for reliable synth spells. Stonefish Scales suck BTW. Damned Donkey Bone.
Redpill me on SSG, I'm 5 hours in (Urpina's story) and this game is just non-stop grinding
>>2923329Probably evading a ban from the first thread deletion.
>>2923545Scarlet Graces is legitimately 80% doing battles 10% traversing the map/making choices and 10% setting your party up.
>>2922303Not your blog, anon. Unsubscribe us.>playing onlineshitRedditcancer moment.
>>2923329I'm OP of the last thread. My country's got dynamic IP and sometimes I get a banned IP (most of them expired bans) because some asshole used it to spam other boards. Maybe they saw my flag and took it as ban evasion? Which wouldn't make sense because the thread was a couple weeks old, and I don't remember being on a banned IP when I made it -or else I wouldn't have been able to make it.I didn't make the first deleted thread either. That one got purged at 500 posts.
>>2923329>>2924222>>2read the last sentence for why mods are deleting threads
Is Final Fantasy 2 a SaGa game?
>>2924473>gaslightingNone of those threads were generalsWe have TONS of long threads about certain games (Morrowind, Black Souls, Sequel, Hat World, /mon/, etc) yet none are deleted
>>2919217How does one get into these games? I remember seeing images of RS3 on /v/ in high school (circa 2012) and being blown away by the sprite art. However a good translation patch wasn't available, and I only wanted to play 3. I got the RS2, RS3, and Frontier remakes on Switch and started each one, but always end up stopping part way through.In RS2 I got to the third descendant then got lost in the jungle kingdom, in RS3 I got to the end of two separate playthroughs but got walled because I couldn't get my characters to learn stronger techniques, and in Frontier I left the starting planet but got eaten by a giant alien and soft-locked myself because I couldn't beat it. I've heard Minstrel Song is amazing, but I don't want to start another of these games just to do play them wrong and get walled.Besides the open-ended nature of these games how should they be played? I don't want to look at guides, but I also want to beat these fucking things and really see what they have to offer.
>>2926016Unfortunately there isn't a good into SaGa game, or an intro mod. They all require hidden mechanic knowledge, lots of grinding, and access to data tables to study stuff like item drops, skill absorbs, monster forms, hidden gear properties, event gotchas, etc.There isn't a SaGa game where you can pick it up and go without serious issues.
>>2926084They dont actually require that though you just have compulsion problems
>>2926016>How does one get into these gamesSaGa Frontier 2 is smooth and a good time. The only thing you need to know is how to cheese the Battle of South Moundtop. And that's only at the very end of the game.>I don't want to look at guides, but I also want to beat these fucking thingsThis is fun and doable.>really see what they have to offer.You will absolutely not see everything or experience everything in a SaGa game without a guide. This is fine.
>>2926105Hand a normie the Asellus quest and see what happens. Will they make it out of Fascinaturu? Owmi? The mystic fights?
How the fuck do I beat Forneus? I'm using equipment that defends against water and even casting spells to change the field I'm getting fucked by MaelstromMy party is Katarina, Minstrel, Herman, Undine and Fake Robin, they are around 500 HPShould I just keep grinding?
>>2926221Real life human boys and girls literally did. Have you ever considered that maybe you were supposed to get trapped there and feel oppressed, imprisoned, manipulated? That you might have actually cheated yourself by using a guide to learn what you didn't need to know to simply finish the game?
>>2926269Wear better armor, cast better magic. Did you do the smithing and actually fill out your options yet? Armor makes a massive difference in every saga game that has it.
>>2926269Also, use tiger's den with a character who can counter with say, matador, on the point position.
>>2924485Let's say it's a honorary member of the family, it's ur-SaGa so to speak and still gets references in the games to this day.FF1 is too in a couple of ways, especially since Kawazu took Death Machine/Warmech with him once he broke up with the FF team, but obviously FF2 is closer to the SaGa formula when it comes to gameplay mechanics.>>2926016Well, you refuse to use guides so you're already showing you understand what these games are about, good on you.You still gotta like getting lost and figuring things out on your own, and being fucked over to some extent, Tanzer is a big surprise but rule of thumb is to always save on separate files before starting questlines because in SaGa that kind of stuff can happen, it's why this series always allows you to save anywhere, anytime, so do that.Mechanics wise there's a lot to talk about but you can condense everything in just a couple of tips>Equipment>>>Stats until the very endgame where the balance equalizes somewhat, even so equipment is still more important>You learn techs by doing things with weapons, but some techs can either only be learned through using other techs or get a bonus learning chance, so don't just spam the same stuff over and over>In the old games until Unlimited you have a mechanic called Type, every character falls into a Type, these are simply tables that dictate how likely character X is going to learn weapon techs, long story short some characters are better at learning things than others, and their specialties are also hinted at through various details>Don't spread yourself too thin on your characters, choose one or two things you wanna be good at and stick with those, otherwise you'll lag behind in growth and grinding in these games is awful even when you know what you're doing>BR is not as scary as some people make it out to beIf you want game specific tips it's another story, but ask away if you have any particular question, newcomers are always welcome.
>>2926351I didn't have a guide in 1998, and neither did any of the dozen boys in my neighborhood who came over to try it. None of them figured it out.Without a guide it's just not a decent game. With guides it's worth a playthrough to see what not to do, and how to ruin great ideas through terrible execution.
>>2926398I played it just fine without guides back in the days, so did millions of people and Frontier is the most popular game in the series too, don't pretend your own shortcomings are game design issues, if you want to make /v/ tier drama about nothing you'll have to try harder than that
>>2926398maybe you just hang out with stupid people, Frontier really isn't hard to figure out, excellent game though.
>>2926403The point I'm trying to make is that they did a shit job implementing these games, and if they did it right SaGa would be a AAA franchise worldwide.But what do I know, I only found and documented 3 data tables in the game 15 years ago on GameFAQs back before it was gay. I certainly don't know it inside and out like you do.>>2926615We literally didn't know that skill placement affects monster forms, that there are 2 monster form tables, or have monster form requirements until 2010 or thereabouts when Zaraktheus disassembled the SCUS and BATTLE.OUT.You have no idea what you're talking about, and are full of shit.
>>2926659SaGa will never be an AAA franchise, let alone worldwide, given how it's a deliberately experimental franchise that appeals to a small niche, the only way to make it so would be dumbing it down and turning it into something else, this is like arguing that something like Zorbus would sell millions of copies if it had AAA graphics and extensive documentation.It's also hilarious how you're whining about supposedly needing to know the game inside out when it's not nearly necessary, most of those mechanics are hidden for a reason you know? People can beat these games easily just by using the very basics, and the series has its niche precisely because it appeals to people who like finding stuff out on their own.But lemme guess, you're the usual cuck who tries to shill his romhacks here, right?
>>2926676Lol, lmao evenLet's see...In the OG: >You can't see elemental defenses besides the base defense value, which IIRC doesn't include the 4 defense modifier bytes.>You can't see most special attributes and debuff resistances for gear or skills.>You can't see additional/alternative item based skills, including conditional ones.>You have no info on character talents, which skill sparks which (even in a fill in the blank form, which would be useful for NG+). Especially since skills aren't shared party wide like SF2.>There are a decent amount of very serious bugs, namely in Asellus' quest where her endings can be improperly triggered.>No where in the game or manual are battle rank, battle rank points, or random battle rank variation explained or even mentioned.>You can miss half the monster skills by grinding to BR 9 quickly, plus the 1/128 and 1/64 (iirc) skill absorbs will almost never be seen.>There is no listing of monster skills learned per monster, ally or enemy.>Item drop rates are atrocious, making the already boring grind incredibly tedious. Oh, and there's no bestiary of item drops to gear up for fights.>Increased BR just increases enemy HP>Most enemies are horribly broken and easily overpowered only if you know what young doing. If you don't it's easy to die. Difficulty by obscurity is fake difficulty. >Mystics only have 4 free skill slots, can't spark techs, and have shit intelligence growth (which is also gun/spell talent). Most of them also have shit HP and Cha talent, several having none at all. Most mystic skills suck, there are few reasons to use anything but 3x Suzaku/Mariche/Griffin for stats.>Several spark talent lists are reused across common characters, and for some reason there's a totally good list unused.>Combo send/receive data isn't visible or intuitive. It's not even stored the same way, in the same place. I still haven't found half of it.
>>2926676>SaGa will never be an AAA franchise, let alone worldwide, given how it's a deliberately experimental franchise that appeals to a small niche, the only way to make it so would be dumbing it down and turning it into something else, this is like arguing that something like Zorbus would sell millions of copies if it had AAA graphics and extensive documentation.It's popular in Japan as an A or B franchise, largely due to the implicit cultural knowledge much of the game fluff hints at and because it didn't have suffer through an Engrish translation for them.Literally 3/4 of this shit could be fixed of alleviated with more informative menus. The rest with a few ASM hacks to alter drop rates and improve monsters, mystics, and mechs; plus extensive data table editing to make everything available at end game.You could then wander through the game without serious issues due to ignorance, and such a hack could function as a base for various rebalances.Furthermore, you're just being a hipster. You don't actually care about the game experience, just flexing on peopld you feel superior to presumably because you have nothing else going on in your life.>It's also hilarious how you're whining about supposedly needing to know the game inside out when it's not nearly necessary, most of those mechanics are hidden for a reason you know? People can beat these games easily just by using the very basics, and the series has its niche precisely because it appeals to people who like finding stuff out on their own.Yet you can see hundreds of reviews and thousands of comments dismissing this game. Ah, but they're *inferior* to you, amirite? And your *superior* to me, a guy who does what you wish you could.>But lemme guess, you're the usual cuck who tries to shill his romhacks here, right?False, I learned that romhacking is essentially free gamedev for ingrates such as yourself. Now I make my own and earn a modest income instead of pandering to shut-ins.
>>2926716But is that information necessary to get into SF1 or beat it? The anons calling you names were simply disputing that particular point. Now sure, guides and a deep understanding of the game's systems is likely necessary to get the MOST out of a particular SaGa game, or to break it over your knee if that's the player's style but to just enjoy it or beat it? That's the dispute here, and judging by the reactions here it's mostly your personal experiences with the game versus the personal experiences of the anons that replied to you, and anecdotes vs anecdotes, no one's getting convinced.
>>2926269>Should I just keep grinding?No, you have the right armor and right HP.>I'm using equipment that defends against water and even casting spells to change the field I'm getting fucked by MaelstromUse a better defense formation. Water Column and Counterattack techs are highly effective against Forneus.You could always use Commander Mode to trivialize him if he is giving you too much problem, but that is almost like cheating desu.
>>2926716Oh yeah, I forgot (probably due to PTSD lmao):>The Effects Processes are filled with bizarre, wasteful decisions. Cleaning up, consolidating, and de-hardcoding the 3 skill data tables (and the idiotic leftover combo data table) would reap huge rewards in moddability.>I can't go on with how retarded the skills data implementation without sounding like Adolf Hitler talking abouf jews, but let me just say that it's almost impossible to mod as it is.>There is a huge amount of wasted and space on the disc. For some reason the battle routines file is stored in both compressed and uncompressed forms, but only the compressed version is used. The game decompresses it to load it into RAM. Why? No idea.>The compressed battle routines file has very few bytes left in its last sector. The nature of its compression means you can't distribute one-off asm hacks to change specific features, and you can't tell if the file will compress small enough to fit in its allotted sectors after you manually make asm hacks until after you compress it.>It's not all bad though. The field event scripts are apparently expandable, maybe up to 65,535 scripts. Currently there are 700? 511? I forget.>There's only room for 256 battle event scripts, unfortunately. However a clever rebalance would make many of the much smaller.
>>2926738As I said, simply improving the menus to be more informative, adding a bestiary, and telling people a little bit about game mechanics would make it easier for normies to get into. The fact that all the pieces are there and they don't is evidence they failed in this.Besides, that other guy arguing with me that normies who don't get into SaGa are dumb clearly has issues. If you derive your sense of self-worth from hipsterism then you're probably not doing much with your life, nor do you actually care about the craft of game design.
>>2926747Forgot:>telling people a little bit more about game mechanics *in the manual or in a FF6 style beginners room* ...
>>2926716>>2926724I won't even waste time to address how most of the shit you listed is quite literally a (You) problem, a non-issue or clearly a mistake due to butthurt.>Literally 3/4 of this shit could be fixed of alleviated with more informative menus.You mean what the remasters and new games have done? How come they didn't suddenly sell millions and propel SaGa to AAA popularity? Maybe because none of that fucking matters in the first place and people largely don't care because at a basic design level this is not a series meant for larger audiences.>Furthermore, you're just being a hipster.Being protective of the things I like and not wanting them to be dumbed down to pander to people who clearly are not the core audience of this franchise is being a hipster? And please stop with the heavy projection, you've been btfo so many times this is beyond pathetic>Yet you can see hundreds of reviews and thousands of comments dismissing this gameBecause those people want movies that play themselves like Final Fantasy, or dating sims like Pathfinder and the average Bioware turd.And yes, I am in fact superior to both them and you, especially because unlike you I don't posture about amateurish game design remarks while having twitter tier meltdowns, on fucking /vrpg/>FalseYou're a terrible liar when you out yourself so much by mentioning, and repeating your past meltdowns.I do not care about this series becoming a blockbuster hit, I do care about it reaching its proper audience and I do not want it to be dumbed down for "people" like you, you love to shit on other people while projecting your own overinflated ego and play holier than thou afterward, get lost.
>>2926756>I won't even waste time to Ah, so you don't have an argument then? I accept your surrender. >You mean what the remasters and new games have done? How come they didn't suddenly sell millions and propel SaGa to AAA popularity? Maybe because none of that fucking matters in the first place and people largely don't care because at a basic design level this is not a series meant for larger audiences.The remaster menu only partially explains half of item data and half of one table of skill data. That's like 5% of the data that should be visible, in terms of volume.>Being protective of the things I like and not wanting them to be dumbed down to pander to people who clearly are not the core audience of this franchise is being a hipster? And please stop with the heavy projection, you've been btfo so many times this is beyond patheticHow is *explaining basic game mechanics and displaying correct info* "dumbing down"?>Because those people want movies that play themselves like Final Fantasy, or dating sims like Pathfinder and the average Bioware turd.Got any evidence for this?>And yes, I am in fact superior to both them and you, especially because unlike you I don't posture about amateurish game design remarks while having twitter tier meltdowns, on fucking /vrpg/Posting true facts you can see in the game data and the (lack of) nenus is a meltdown? Lmao>You're a terrible liar when you out yourself so much by mentioning, and repeating your past meltdowns.Are these other posters in the room with you now?>I do not care about this series becoming a blockbuster hit, I do care about it reaching its proper audience and I do not want it to be dumbed down for "people" like you, you love to shit on other people while projecting your own overinflated ego and play holier than thou afterward, get lost.You literally just implied you are superior to other gamers and then called me holier-than-thou? Someone as lacking in self awareness as yourself should be studied
>>2926756>I won't even waste time to address how most of the shit you listed is quite literally a (You) problem, a non-issue or clearly a mistake due to butthurt.Any time someone refuses to addresses game issues where you can look at the data and implementation it's most likely because they can't formulate a counter-argument, not because they don't want to.
>>2926766Actually now that I think about it the expanded menus get almost all the item data, 3/4 of one skills data table, all the mystic absorbs data (though there's little info on the mystic skills themselves). That's still about 15% of all the data that should be visible as in literally 75% of other RPGs.
>>2926756Weird how you don't care if Square Enix makes money. Do you think they make games for charity? If SaGa made money, would we get more SaGa?
>>2926766I have many arguments, such as your claim that BR in Frontier just increases enemy HP, which is demonstrably false, but why waste so much time on somebody who's clearly off his meds?I shouldn't need to point out how complaining about basic game design like knowledge checks, in a fucking RPG, is completely fucking ridiculous.>That's like 5% of the data that should be visible, in terms of volume.Right, heaven forbid if players have to figure out SOMETHING for themselves, might as well give the game an auto battle mode since you're already been given an auto equip mode too in the remaster, in case you're too fucking stupid to understand a 1997 game for japanese children.By the way, how come you make such a big fuss about SaGa, especially Frontier, somehow not being popular for not showing data such as equipment attribute but something like FF7 doing the exact same thing and selling millions gets a pass?Because FF7 also doesn't tell you something as basic as every character's basic stat growth pattern, nor does it tell you how its hidden equipment mechanics actually work, nor does it tell you several different things like how Vincent's limit breaks actually work...and yet it sold millions and it's considered a timeless masterpiece despite being just as "obtuse", I wonder why...>You literally just implied you are superior to other gamers and then called me holier-than-thou?I am, simply because I'm not having a total fucking meltdown whenever somebody points out how ridiculous my non arguments are, and then try to attack other people for not wanting their games to be dumbed down to casuals and calling them hipsters.You're hitting even lower lows, I strongly suggest you to stop here because you're only going to get further embarassed, go back to your Gamefaq boards, you're clearly out of your element.
>>2926781What kind of retarded argument is this?If SaGa didn't even remain SaGa "just to make money" why would anyone who liked the franchise in the first place care?Also I actually hate that square enix is making money. It should fucking die, maybe then they'll reconsider their horrible decisions.
>>2926788No see you don't understand, the game isn't actually a google docs spreadsheet with some fancy side graphics so it's objectively terrible and badly designed and the series will never make money or sell 20 million copies per games so I can gloat about sales figures
>>2926782BR increases enemy HP, you can look it up in Zaraktheus' guide. Or are you implying that I said it doesn't also alter enemy selections? That's obvious and shouldn't need to be stated.It's almost impossible for a normie to figure out some game mechanics because the damage formulas use so much randomnesses that subtleties are lost in noise. Besides, if you know what you're doing SF becomes hold A to win, which is bad design: difficulty by obscurity.I talk about SaGa instead of FF7 because this is a SaGa thread. Duh? Besides, FF7 is less opaque, almost all skill/stat/gear data is visible and it's much simpler.Growth pattern in FF7 is largely static, some minor variation less than 15 points IIRC. That's out of 255 max, too - less stat squish.FF7 is nowhere near as obtuse as SF. SF skills data is bat shit insane compared to FF7. We're talking basic info like combo send/receive, linked/area skills, battlefield effects (Light Shift, etc), Effects Process hardcoding, skill slot hardcoding.SF has an order of magnitude more complexity than FF7, and a greater percentage of that is hidden.If you say I have a meltdown when I demonstrate expert level technical knowledge then I assume you're arguing in bad faith. Man up and I'll treat you like a man. If you can't argue on the level of a guy who ripped the guts out of that fucking game at least quit trying to paint me as a whiny faggot when I'm clearly flexing my know-how on you.>>2926788>What kind of retarded argument is this?>If SaGa didn't even remain SaGa "just to make money" why would anyone who liked the franchise in the first place care?>Also I actually hate that square enix is making money. It should fucking die, maybe then they'll reconsider their horrible decisions.lol>I am superior to you because ... because I just am, okay? Now stop being so arrogant, you hipster!>They don't need to make money, they can have mommy bring tendies!
>>2926794I thought you didn't want them to make money? Why do you care about it now?Are you aware that making multiple contradictory arguments in a row makes you look like you're arguing in bad faith, or I dunno really mad?
>>2926798>>I am superior to you because ... because I just am, okay? Now stop being so arrogant, you hipster!>>They don't need to make money, they can have mommy bring tendies!who are you quoting?
>>2926807I'm paraphrasing the gist of his arguments to highlight the contradictions, hypocrisy, and lack of self awareness.
>>2926809sounds more like you're just making shit up because you're butthurt
>>2926798>That's obvious and shouldn't need to be stated.Ooooooh, very interesting statement coming from somebody who wants total transparency from videogames.So omitting the actually important part of BR mechanics it's fine because "it's obvious", but the game not yelling at you that Gen is good with swords and Liza is good with martial arts is bad...>It's almost impossible for a normie to figure out some game mechanicsThat's why they're called normalfags, why should I give a damn about them? Are you a normalfa...oh yes you are since you use /r9k/ slang and complain about non issues in SF while being a goody two shoes when you have to cover your ass>Besides, if you know what you're doing SF becomes hold A to winShit, you're telling me that once you actually know a game inside out you can cut all the fat and optimize to the bare minimum? No way...I guess Ninja Gaiden Black is also a terrible game because you can just spam Flying Swallow and abuse Ninjutsu once you understand how strong you are and know enemy patterns...>Besides, FF7 is less opaqueNot really, it's just an infinitely less complex game that has the same exact degree of opacity, but can get away with it because you don't need any effort to beat it, nevermind how most of the game is just running from point a to b to watch cutscenes anyway.>If you say I have a meltdown when I demonstrate expert level technical knowledgeAh right, expert level technical knowledge when you didn't even say that BR alters common encounters, what a joke you are, and you're still samefagging and trying to get some sort of moral highgroundWell, I guess that's what happens when nobody cares about your shitty romhacks for years, lmao, not even speedrunners reach your level of mental illness
>>2926810The point isn't to persuade you, but to persuade the audience that you're full of shit.>>2926813Lmao are you saying it's not obvious that monsters change as BR goes up? That seems obvious to me, hence why I didn't say it.And I did allude to it earlier:>>2926716>No where in the game or manual are battle rank, battle rank points, or random battle rank variation explained or even mentioned.Do you think that the term "battle rank" doesn't refer to enemies changing with battle rank?Or is this a face saving defensive crouch to protect your fragile ego?Normies is common slang all over the internet, buddy. I'm sure that this feels like a gotcha to someone of your caliber, though.I'm saying that good games shouldn't retain challenge even after you master them, but you're soooo superior to me so you know that, right?Yes, like I said: SF is much more complex than FF7. Thanks for restating my point for me.Lol there's that gotcha again! See my reply above.
>>2926823Correction: should retain challenge
>>2926823>but to persuade the audience you're on the wrong planet if you think anyone gives a shit about square enix making money
>>2926831I'm of two minds about this.>Refusing to give them money won't make them give you what you want.>However ...>Square does fuck up constantly.
>>2926836>Refusing to give them money won't make them give you what you want.On the contrary they made the first final fantasy when they were on the verge of destruction and at their peak they are shitting out garbage like FF13,14,15, Forspoken
>>2926823>Lmao are you saying it's not obvious that monsters change as BR goes up?You're the one who failed to mention such an "obvious" thing (while ranting about games not being clear enough, sweet irony), yet pretend that the hp variations for fixed encounters is even worth mentioning when most people won't ever notice it due to the fact that they're simply extremely unlikely to finish the game at low enough BR to notice it, but that the general power rubberbanding makes it almost completely unnoticeable in practical terms, unless of course, you're so well versed in the game that you do know that's a thing and you can abuse it through very specific meta ways, which is clearly not part of your argument anyway.>Normies is common slang all over the internet, buddy.Yeah, it's something normalfags use, I know, it was something initially used by /r9k/ cancer, aka what we called failed normalfags back in the days, and the use is still frowned upon by people who were here long enough, which clearly isn't your case, not sure why you're trying to change subject to this though.>I'm saying that good games shouldn't retain challenge even after you master themYou're free to challenge yourself with Frontier any time, so I fail to see the issue here, the game is flexible enough to accomodate nearly any sort of self imposed masochism, in fact the more you know about the game the more masochism you can partake in, although that is true for the vast majority of games out there so I really don't understand what you're getting at.Besides, if you wanted an actual challenge you wouldn't play single player games to begin with, let alone standard RPGs, even roguelikes become largely boring once you learn the tricks.Really, do you have to continue with this circus show? You're not even funny in the Kiwifarms sense, you're just miserable to look at.
All this argument over Frontier, the worst game in the series, kek. I swear Frontierfags, or in this case retards who got filtered by Frontier 25 fucking years ago have some sort of incurable hang-up over the game.
>>2926880>the worst game in the seriesEven if that's true it's what got me into this series to begin with. Really I don't think being simple and straightforward makes it a bad a game by any means even if it didn't end up being my favorite. I'm surprised by the amount of people that claim the game is hard or confusing though
>>2926880It's just that one faggot who's still salty nobody wants to play his shitty romhacks.And Frontier's nowhere near the worst in the series, that honor goes to GB SaGa 3, it's kinda overrated in the series' context though, I'll give you that.
>>2926883It's not bad per se. To me it's just so nothing compared to everything else. Mostly being hyperbolic because the thread has been completely shit up.>>2926885True. I hardly consider that one in series discussion in the first place since it's non-Kawazu. I should get around to playing his remake of that and SaGa2
>>2926847Jesus learn to use line breaks and punctuation. Burying your opponent in paragraph sized sentences isn't a valid argument lol.Yes, BR altering enemies is the entire basis of the game and is so obvious that it doesn't need mentioning, plus that's not in the same domain as the devs neglecting the UI. My failure to mention it is at best a minor writing oversight, while their failures make the game artificially difficult due to obscurity.HP variations due to BR is pretty hard to guess unless you LLG/speedrun or look at monster data.You brought up the r9k tangent, not me; me rebutting your weirdness and off topic posting is evidence of your lack of self-awareness... which coincidentally is a major feature of lolcows, an observation I include here as a response to yet another off your off topic tangents about kiwi farms you included in your post.Self imposed challenges are a thing, yeah. Nonetheless SaGa Frontier is difficult only through obscurity, not actually design.That's a really interesting flex you're making that standard RPGs, single player games, and roguelikes aren't (or shouldn't?) be difficult. It makes me wonder if perhaps you should post at the /v/ mobile board until you calm down.You know every time I've met someone who independently brings up Kiwi Farms I google their username and find horrors. They always project. Just an observation.>>2926880That's my point lol, it sucks and could be better. And I wouldn't post all this shit if that fag hadn't white knighted it.>>2926885Could you post a link to these romhacks? I only know one guy who made a SF hack, my focus was only on data diving back in the day before I got my bachelor's. I'm curious how someone made such a thing without me helping them.
>>2926909>Artificially difficultThe mark of a coping shitter, just admit you're not smart enough to figure out one of the easiest games in the series, it's not that hard and it's not like you have any dignity to lose to begin with.And I mention Kiwifarms because you're precisely the kind of mentally ill idiot those people use to laugh at.>SaGa Frontier is difficult only through obscurity, not actually design.Every single videogame outside of maybe a couple of select puzzle games is difficult through "obscurity", it's why you shitters constantly complain about the lack of frame data in fighting games, as if knowing which move is 6f instead of 7f will magically make you better at neutral, or why you say Nethack is cheap because it has hundreds upon hundreds of knowledge checks, yet is considered one of the greats of its subgenre.Even something as mechanically simple and straightforward like Mr. Driller deliberately obscures things from the player, because guess what, the good part of games is figuring things out on your own and dealing with the unknown.Might as well complain about action games like DMC not showing you a boss' moveset or gimmicks in advance, because after all how were you supposed to know you could grab Credo's spears and throw them right back at him as Nero? The game doesn't tell you anything about that so it's clearly artificial difficulty according to you.How were you supposed to know Beta counted as an enemy skill in FF7? The game doesn't tell you what you can or cannot learn, nor is there any sort of logic behind it, clearly articial difficulty.How were you supposed to know that the Balor (An enemy that wasn't in the original module the game is based in) in the Fire Node in ToEE can summon another Balor, no other enemy in the game can do that, or even better, how were you supposed to know the Fragarach was a thing when you created your lawful neutral spellcaster party with not a single weapon wielding martial? Artificial difficulty...
>>2919217‘most overrated rpg ever, breath of fire 3 mogs it hard
>>2926944>Shitposting in here right after bumping the other shitpost threadyou're not very bright
>>2926934Lmao I literally reverse engineered parts of SF and as I said earlier I know how to select armor and doubleslash my way through normal fights. My point from the beginning was that the game isn't newb friendly and I'd rather it was.You conflated my descriptive assertion that SF has no difficulty but fake difficulty through obscure game mechanics with a normative assertion that obscuring game mechanics has no place in a game.It does in certain genres; I just personally prefer not to have it in RPGs.So why does my personal preference enrage you, and cause you to obsessively respond to everything I say?Do you feel a burning hatred for everyone who disagrees with you on the internet? Is that normal or lolcow behavior? As for your obsession with KF, my statement was a sly hint (too subtle for you, apparently) that people who accuse others of being lolcows flippantly (you) often do dumb shit like reusing usernames on gelbooru or furaffinity.I of course wouldn't *dream* of making an account at a naughty no-no site like Kiwi Garms! Nor would I use text profiling Python scripts to dox people who annoy me!The point isn't that difficulty through obscurity (minus your scare quotes) is cheese. If there is nothing else then the game is fake difficult. If there is some other type of difficulty then it's fine, just a normal learning curve but there's always some risk.If you want only cheese, then gaming isn't your goal. Perhaps you like being able to cheese SF because it gives you a feeling of power that helps you cope with the lack of it in other areas of your life.This combined with your adamant refusal to - and fury that - someone dared to disagree with you indicates that you always need to feel like you're in control.I wasn't aware that you are the sole owner of /vrpg/, and that only you (and those who brownnose you) are allowed to express opinions here.May your fedora never be washed, my lord.
>>2926944>breath of fire 3Didn't really care that much for it, liked 4 much better
This is a remarkably terrible thread.
>>2926985usually i just chalk it up to sagafag forgetting to keep his autism in check but the essay posting on both sides is ungodly. By the way, neither of you fags can format a post to be legible for your lives
>>2926988You're part of problem with your obession by branding anyone who dares make posts longer than 150 characters as "sagafag", granted you're still not as bad as this one mentally ill retard
>>2926948>repliesTakes one to know one
>>2926992I dunno, he types like the pretentious douchebag who i've had the misfortune of encountering in every SaGa thread across multiple boards over the past ~8 years. But yeah anonymity means i'll never know for sure. kinda wish he used a name or tripcode, its fits his MO.
>>2926993If jannies weren't completely useless and did their fucking job i'd let it slide, but sometimes it's best to remind those people they're not the ebin troles they think they are.On the other hand it was also kinda useless to make another thread when most of the usual posters are still burned out from playing MS, this is what happens when there's nothing to talk about but you want to force some discussion.Emerald Beyond can't come soon enough.
Why can't jannies ban schizos already? They make a million threads talking to themselves for months, then when they get bored they shit any other thread from games they're not interested into
>>2926944Stunning and brave, redditsister.
Before I start this, answer me this: I’ve only played Saga Frontier, and is this game as difficult to figure out as that was? And by that I mean it really isn’t until after you’ve done a run with one character and halfway through another before you have a grasp on the gameplay? And how necessary is it that you’ve played others in the series?
>>2927830If you've played saga frontier or RS3 and set progression speed to slow it should be fine
>>2927830It's harder, more open ended and more complex than Frontier, just like the other games you'll only start to truly figure it out after a run or two.It's not necessary to play other games either, you'll miss some references at best, as the other anon said set progression to Slow and you probably won't have too many issues.
>>2919217What a ride the first playthrough was. Even if I played through this game years ago, it is still as enjoyable as it was back then.Final Party: Albert (Mirsa's Armor/Foil), Monica (Pole Arm), Patrick (Club), Captain Silver (2H Axe), Freilei (2H Sword)
>>2927919Who were you running before you picked up silver and freilei?
Started Romancing SaGa 2. Are HP and weapon/magic levels the only things that increase after a battle this time? I kinda miss the constant stat ups from RS1. It's nice to see sparking and weapon leveling by category though.
>>2928019RS2 and 3 use proficiencies instead of variable stats like RS1 or Frontier, so core stats and LP are fixed, only your "fuel" stats go up.In RS2 TP/JP only go up with your proficiency levels too, unlike every other game in the series, so the more proficiency levels you have the bigger your pools, HP grows just as usual though.
>>2927919>Dragon characters have a low LP pool so it's hard to keep them aliveI dunno when you started using Captain Silver but good on you for getting to the end with her
>>2928019One thing to note is that weapon proficiency is equal to the highest character you manage to raise with it that survives to go back home while magic proficiency pools experience from all characters.You can very quickly bust the game by having everyone spam airslash or lightball for a generation and it will basically never go out of style.
SaGa games tend to have killer fucking premises and/or a super interesting and weird science-fantasy setting, but the actual character and NPC writing seem to be pretty bare bones in my experience. Which game is the best in that regard? Characters I give a shit about + gameplay that surprises you sounds perfect.
>>2926016>How does one get into these games?No idea. My first was Unlimited SaGa. Watched a preview on a game mag dvd and it looked and sounded amazing. I bought it and quit after fumbling around for an hour. I couldn't understand anything even after rereading the manual over and over.Years later I finally tried FF2, which I heard so much bad about but wouldn't believe it. I played for a few hours and didn't like the vagueness of the levelup system.When the Romancing SaGa's came to PC I got interested in them but I'm afraid of disliking them. Aesthetically my favorite.I watched a few Japanese streamers playing through SaGa Frontier 1+2 but I didn't like the graphical style. One also played through UnSaGa and it's still the same mess. Understanding the system makes it a bit better but it's still the weirdest and least beginner friendly SaGa.Scarlet Grace looked kinda interesting but the map is a real turnoff and it's more of a board game with endless fighting than a real JRPG. I don't like the drawn out battles either.MinSaGa is also not for me. Clunky, ugly and "slow" that the remaster's turbo doesn't fix.I recently started that Hat World game because it's supposeldy SaGa-like to hopefully ease me into SaGa. Kinda enjoying it but still missing something. Maybe I'll jump into Romancing SaGa or try Frontier despite my issues with it. Maybe SaGa just isn't for me. I like the idea of the freedom of progression but playing it is different.
This whole series is vastly overrated pseudo intellectual nonsense
>>2930295Honestly the strongest characters have been in terms of writing and personality are SaGa Frontier 2 and SaGa Scarlet Grace, at least in my experience. Scarlet Grace also has some genuinely funny moments with it's cast too, they're definitely characters that started to make me care about them
>>2930414Sadly, I already played SaGa Frontier 2, but yeah it's pretty great. Looking back now that I've played a bit more of the series, it's kind of an outlier, since it's missing that non-linearity and exploration. Making you play through the perspective of "history" is inspired though. Scarlet Grace sounds interesting and I kinda suspected that having only 4 scenarios might result in more fleshed-out writing.>>2930373>SaGa-likesHave you tried Legend of Mana? It's vastly different from the rest of the Mana series, since it's basically Side Quests the Game. Tackle anything and everything and explore its weird fucked up world any way you want. It also has the insane mechanical and unexplained depth of a SaGa game with smithing, but you can also bumble around and beat it. Super easy game.
>>2927982Albert, Monica, Patrick, Galahad and Sif, I wanted Freilei since I never had her in my final party. Sadly had to LP kill her because I cleared the Trials of Elore.
>>2930414I genuinely like Unlimited SaGa a lot, the pace is so fast and snappy it's the one SaGa game that most resembles a JoJo arc.
Playing NG+ trying to do the Who Am I quest so I can unlock True Aldora, Dowd is a damned axe throwing machine. Turned him into a pirate and gave him a Throwing Axe+3. Fucker is doing so much damage with just Throw Axe alone. Current team:Barbara (Long Sword)Herman (Kjar Bow)Darque (Magic)Dowd (Hand Axe)Claudia (Martial Arts) I sorta just needed a 5th for the Eule gives a hoot and keeping her until I finish Twinmoon Temple. Then going to hope I can hold out to try for someone else.
bro i tried to play romancing saga 3 and shit was so lame lmao i stopped after like 45 minutes and booted up ff7r instead
>>2919217love how Romancing saga 2 and 3 look on the switch, and I'd really like to play the 1st one but it looks ugly on SNES, and has a fugly artsyle in Minstrel Song. Should I just try trekking through minstrel song and the gameplay/story will make up for my lack on interest in the art style? I wish it was pixel art like 2 and 3
how good is the music in saga?
>>2930575The original version of Romancing SaGa 1 is quite literally an unfinished game. If you insist on playing the finished game in 2D instead of 3D, there's the WonderSwan version. But it never got a translation.
>>2930295SaGa Frontier 2 definitely. Lots of interesting characters, political drama, stories that go through several generations.Wonder why they never tried again and just kept the worldbuilding/lore aspect... which is pretty interesting in Minstrel Song and Unlimited
>>2930979Because Kawazu doesn't like to make things too set in stone, he wants the games to be open when it comes to the writing too, he wants the player to have their own ideas of a character through few key traits, it's the same idea behind EO where they want you to have personal bond with the characters by using your imagination.And honestly SF2 wasn't any different from the usual SaGa when it came to characters, despite being awfully linear and limited too, outside of Gustave and Wil everyone else was just as "barebones" as the usual characters, perhaps even more so considering a lot of people like Raymond, Patrick, Diana, Julia, Kelvin's children etc. exist for one scenario and have two or three lines before disappearing from the game forever, though SF2 was also rushed as shit and looking at the Perfect Works volume a lot of stuff was cut due to time constraints so it might have been a bit different.
>>2930612good effort anon :)
If this series wasnt so obtuse it would be pretty great.
Don't know what it is about Minstrel Song. I started a second playthrough and just felt bored. I went through multiple playthroughs of RS2, RS3, and Frontier.I guess it just feels too same to my previous playthrough.
>>2933308Same for me, I can't help trying to do every single possible event in every playthrough so they end up being very same-y.I also don't like to let go of characters and exchange them for the newer ones, so most of my teams end up too similar.Love the game and it's beautiful but I can only do a playthrough, even though it's designed for several ones.
My introduction to SaGa series a couple years ago was Asellus' routeIt was one hell of a trip.
>>2933291Not our problem you can't git gud, lol
>>2933291>If this series wasnt so obtuse it would be pretty great.But the discovery is what makes these games so greatHas anyone here played Fear & Hunger? It's the game that comes to mind when I hear anons sometimes bring up that they wished there was a SaGa roguelike'sh game
>>2933308Weird considering you enjoyed playing through RS3 multiple times and they share the same progression structure, Minstrel Song is much more intense than RS3 though so I guess I can see where you come from, I'm still burned out myself after just 80 hours.
>>2933703its not an rpgmore of a survival horror with lots of gay rapealso SaGa roguelike is a completely nonsensical combination of words
https://taumax-github.github.io/sagamax/contents/minsaga/history/kawazu_tweet_collection.htmlSaw this on my timeline from twitter , I think it's supposed to be a page dedicated to lore of Minstrel Song but I'm not sure
>>2933660How'd you like Revolutionary Girl Utena x Castlevania
>>2933828It is.Though most of that stuff is taken from the game and Kawazu's twitter so it's nothing new, Kawazu also made the same lore posts in (kinda broken) english so go read 'em, there's actually quite a lot of interesting snippets about Mirsa's generation and the creation of the big nations in the game.
>>2933795>also SaGa roguelike is a completely nonsensical combination of wordssounds like you lack imagination
>>2919217Just defeated Saruin (OG RS1) with Gray, Myriam, Claudia, Albert and Sif.Myriam and Claudia did basically all the work while Albert was healing. All in all, Saruin was pretty weak compared with other SaGa final bosses. His drip is impeccable, though.
>>2933703go back to your containment general man
>>2933840a lotparticularly fond of the harpsichord throughout the scenario. https://youtube.com/watch?v=M3DD2vDWwOM
>using two randos because I like their designs too muchHow fucked am I going to get? Are there enemies who can deal multiple LP damage in a turn?
>>2934347The male sorcerer is pretty shitty due to locked armor, Amazon is alright, you can easily finish a normal run with both as long as you play a bit smarter, forget about 10FS Saruin though
>>2933916>All in all, Saruin was pretty weak compared with other SaGa final bosses.Shit I'm in for a ride then. I ended that fight with only 2 guys left, though I was doing my best to DPS race him because I don't have a dedicated healer. I found Saruin harder than full power Egg in SF2 desu. Though maybe that's just because Ginny's party is fucking badass.
>>2934347>Are there enemies who can deal multiple LP damage in a turn?If a combo knocks a character out, they lose 1 LP per enemy participating in the combo.There are a couple regular enemies who have LP attacksThere's an optional boss who spams LP attacksthe final boss is notorious for his instakill move and being able to chunk lots of LP off of your characters throughout the fightThere is some gear that can help mitigate LP damage like Last Leaf and Talisman
>>2934542>Shit I'm in for a ride then.Yeah. Nothing Saruin did will prepare you for the next Final Bosses.