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The Four Horsemen of overrated RPGs.
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>>2860799
That would final fantasy, xenoblades, dragon quest, and persona.
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>>2860803
RPGs not JRPGs
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>>2860799
Skyrim, Mass Effect 2, Divinity Original Sin 2, Witcher 3.
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>>2860799
Can you explain what makes them overrated or were you just fishing for replies
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>>2860799
Average gamer has never heard of Arcanum, and even those who praise it always mention its many flaws.

You should have put moronwind in its place.
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>>2860924
arcanum is e-celeb zoomer chow just like morrowind, hate to break it to you
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>>2860799
Fallout doesn't belong.
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>>2860929
>x becomes mildly and temporarily popular because zoomer streamer find out about it
>anon begins hating it
I'm sorry to say you have a /v/ syndrome. It's terminal.
>>
Often, I find that people who hate on The Four Horsemen of RPGs are Disco fags
>>
>>2860929
>other peoples opinions affect my own opinion of something
incredible really
>>
>>2860803
Fpbp
>>
>>2861016
Discofags are obsessed with PS:T and worship it as a lesser predecessor of their game though.
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>>2861019
it has nothing to do with that, its for the same crowd of people who hate RPGs and are willing to slog through the worst mechanics of all time for "the world"
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>>2861022
>>2861016
It's jarpigs. Never underestimate the w**b menace.
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>>2860799
>Arcanum
Give me a fucking break. That's a filter if there's ever been one.
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>>2861025
That's how I interpreted the image, it certainly fits Arcanum and Torment, while BG2 doesn't really fit that mold, though I can see how one could easily claim it is overrated due to it's rather derivative nature and simplistic encounter and quest design. Fallout on the other hand is an outlier in this regard, as it was a wholly original game with mechanics that generally make sense and with inspired content, easily one of the best games of its generation.
>>
>>2861025
I enjoyed the combat in Arcanum and I definitely didn't give a fuck about the setting or dialogue. Same case for morrowind. I don't give a fuck about the setting or dialogue in any game really. Arcanum is just fun, Morrowind is just fun. Simple as.
>>
>>2861095
Fallout is the same as the others. Bad character building and abysmal combat you suffer through for the sake of the seeing the game's story and world.
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>>2861098
>fallout
>abysmal combat
low iq
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>>2861096
lol
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>>2861077
Arcanum is objectively bad and it's only a filter insofar as only posers like it. In this way it's an excellent indicator as to who's opinion should be ignored.
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>>2861098
>Bad character building
Stop outting yourself, storyfaggot.
>>
>Planescape Torment
Somewhat overrated. It's definitely one of the better written videogames, but there's a lot of boring exposition dumps and pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo.
>Baldur's Gate 2
I wouldn't call it overrated, but I don't like many of the design trends that it helped establish. BG2 was the point when WRPGs started to become a lot more like JRPGs.
>Fallout
Overrated. Half the perks and skills are useless. Charisma is useless. Combat is trivial as long as you keep up with armor. You can easily murderhobo your way through the entire game game in under 6 hours. The dark atmosphere and story quality have been heavily exaggerated by e-celebs. Fallout 2 is a much better game, but 1 is still important.
>Arcanum
Not overrated. Even the game's most hardcore fans will admit that it has a lot of rough edges. If anything, it's underrated.
>>
>>2861191
>>2860924
why did you post twice
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>>2861218
Because I am two completely different people
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>>2861191
>Fallout 2 is a much better game
Fallout 2 marked the removal of the game's original creators and an overhaul of the game's design philosophy to be more marketable to ADHD normalfags. With such shit taste its no wonder you like Arcanum. The only good game Troika has ever put out is ToEE, but that game is an actual RPG, so its not shocking that "Troika fans" pretend it doesn't exist. For me, Fallout 1 was more of Wasteland goodness, while Fallout 2 was Wasteland but bad.
>>
>>2861156
I'm a gameplayfaggot and Fallout's gameplay is bad.
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>>2861104
Fallout combat is slow, repetitive, and takes no skill. Against melee enemies you kite. Against everything else, you damage race. Maybe buff up with a drug first. That's it, that's the game. It's trash for retards.
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>>2860799

Zoom zoom
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>>2861268
You use drugs, you can throw a flare in a dark cave to increase your accuracy or throw it at your enemy's face to blind them, you can set traps or throw explosives, hitting your enemy in the legs will knock them down, hitting them in the arms will cause them to drop their weapon, etc. What did you mean by this?
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>>2861307
Yeah and you can cast like a hundred status ailment spells in Final Fantasy too but all you need to win is spam attack and cure. All of that shit you mentioned is either completely unnecessary or too obvious to mention. Your game isn't high IQ because when it's dark you need to turn on the lights before you can see. You don't need to disable enemies when you can just easily kill them instead.
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>>2861268
>you inflict damage to kill enemies
Yep, sounds like vidya to me. Some games do give you the extra step of forcing you to CC enemies first, I guess.
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>>2861342
>Your game isn't high IQ
It doesn't need to be high IQ. It's a fundamentally solid game. There is a reason Fallout 1 is recommend to be played as your first RPG, not the last one. Imagine comparing a seminal CRPG like Fallout with like 20 different builds that drastically change how the game is played to shitcanum.
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>>2861342
Play through the game as Albert.
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>>2860929
>arcanum is... zoomer
*sips*
Ah yes, a true video gaming connoisseur. I too exclusively play Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, and tabletop gaming. Video games went to shit when they started adding visuals. DOS babies, Windows XP abortions, and Windows 10 fetuses should all stop posting on 4chan and kill themselves.
>>
>>2860799
>Visual Novel: Torment
Not an rpg
>>
>>2861372
The good turn based games give you meaningful and non-obvious defensive options to think about.

>>2861391
There are nowhere close to 20 meaningfully different builds in Fallout, at least as far as combat is concerned. Kill things in melee, kill things with guns, be a pacifist who doesn't kill things. Those are your options. Big guns, small guns, and energy weapons might be more or less effective at different stages of the game but they play exactly the same. You can voluntarily cripple your character so they have low AP or HP or whatever, but you still employ largely the same tactics. Just gotta reload more or make a beeline to the good equipment.
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>>2861439
Really, this is fair criticism. Fallout wasn't loved for its combat.
>>
>>2860799
based and true
>>2860803
cringe and retarded
>except for xenoblade that shit is overrated as fuck
>>
>>2860924
An RPG can not be great without having some flaws. A flawless RPG would be a frictionless, complete smooth, corporate null of a game that you can't even bring up as an example because you have forgotten that it even exists.

In fact I would go so far as to say that an RPG can not be good, let alone great, if it doesn't require at least a fanpatch to be playable, and have steam reviews full of people complaining it doesn't run on windows 10/11.
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>>2861270
Boom Boom
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you've got a lousy bait anon
let me upgrade it
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>>2861439
>drastically different routing does not effect the game
>not picking the same optimal build every time doesn't count
uhhhhh okay
>>
>>2861439
>Kill things in melee, kill things with guns, be a pacifist who doesn't kill things
It's not new vegas where your build is a different flavor of killing things. If you take a fist build you have approach fights differently until you can infiltrate the citadel and get power fist, taking energy weapons means having to use the tactics you complaining are lacking to survive until you get a good weapon, doing a CHA build means crippling enemies so companions can cleanly finish them, etc. Hell, just going high strength means you can bust open containers and doors you might not normally have access to. You sound like a retard.
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>>2861439
>The good turn based games give you meaningful and non-obvious defensive options to think about.
Please, elaborate.
>>
>>2860799
Arcanum is not overrated.
If anything it's underrated.
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>2861455
Subterranean mongoloid.
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>>2861428
Does it not have a failure state? I don't remember the game that well anymore.
Perhaps it would be better to discuss this in different thread instead of bumping this blazing shitpile, but I don't think the question warrants starting a new one just for that.
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>>2861496
>Does it not have a failure state? I don't remember the game that well anymore.
Yes but even Torment's most ardent fans admit that its combat is utter dogshit. Torment isn't a visual novel but it would be an unambiguously better game if it was.
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>>2861498
It's not that combat is BAD, it's that designers treat it as if anyone wanted to be randomly waylaid by bandits in this kind of game. It's also braindead and you can just bruteforce through 90% of encounters, but I think the main cause of frustration is that original release had a weird ring interface only further compounding annoyances. Changing that to an actual toolbar was the one thing EE did right making it it the go-to version.
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>>2860799
>Torment
It's not a bad game, but I agree it's overrated as some holy grail of gaming.
>BG2
It was a golden standard for RPGs and changed genre permanently. I don't like all things it introduced (like romances, why we have to waste dev time on that shit to this day?), but I think BG2 deserves praise it recieves.
>Fallout 1
Fallout 1 isn't overrated in any sense, its sequel are.
>Arcanum
Agreed, Arcanum is a buggy mess lacking any balance. It has great atmosphere and (((gnome))) quest is brilliant, but that's all.
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>>2861504
>outlines
disgusting
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>>2860799
make a thread about something you like, faggot.
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>>2861512
it's an option
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>>2861515
he made, he just like whining
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>>2860799
Why is it always the case that someone can call something overrated but can't name anything that can be places over it and vast majority agreeing.

It's almost like these games got there through natural selection or something.
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>>2860799

Arcanum, overrated? It flopped when it came out and I have never heard anyone put it in their top 10 lists. I beat it once back in the day, but it was hideously imbalanced and short. You can call the other 3 overrated since they are sacred cows in the community, but Arcanum? No.
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>>2861522
disgusting
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>>2860799
The only overrated RPGs I've ever played were New Vegas and Shadowbringers.
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>>2860799
Where the fuck is Morrowind then? I don't buy those horsemen man.
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>>2861522
To this day I have no idea why outlines option exists. They're a visual affront.
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>>2861511
I'd say Fallout was probably the most influential one in a sense it propelled C&C as a major selling point of the genre.
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>>2861578
in Romania
>>2861587
Fallout definitely has more original setting, BG is just a generic WotC fantasy.
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>>2861268
>implying I'm talking about the 3d fallouts
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>>2861583
damn, that looks so much worse than I remember it
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>>2861533
>and vast majority agreeing
Why is this important?
>>
>>2861591
>Romanianschizo yet again on the rescue
Even if he existed, you are still as pathetic as he is.
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>>2860799
>three games I liked a lot
I guess this means I gonna play BG2 next
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>>2861595
"Enhanced Edition"
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>>2860803
*xenogears
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>>2860937
On this board
thank god people are finally saying it
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>>2861191
>>Baldur's Gate 2
>I wouldn't call it overrated, but I don't like many of the design trends that it helped establish. BG2 was the point when WRPGs started to become a lot more like JRPGs.
I hate it because it's true, and because everyone aped the Bioware formula. I want more Icewind Dale and less wondering which companion I can fuck.
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>>2861658
Brainlet spotted
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>>2861469
>drastically different routing does not effect the game
The routing won't necessarily be all that different. Different builds will want different items but that's true in every RPG and isn't anything praiseworthy on its own. Not tagging small guns doesn't mean you can't use small guns until you find something more suitable for your build.
>not picking the same optimal build every time doesn't count
Maybe they should have balanced their game better so that there wasn't an obvious correct choice to nearly every character building option.

>>2861441
Yeah. Fallout has its share of good points, its combat system just isn't one of them. The setting is cool. I think the opening cinematic is outstanding. And the quests are pretty good at reacting to your choices when they aren't broken, buggy messes (so about half of the time).

>>2861478
You use knowledge of the game's world to get access to good equipment early, it's not about the amount of skill you display in combat (because it doesn't take any skill). I will grant that you've brought up a fourth build I had overlooked: you can also recruit teammates and have them kill things for you.
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>>2861428

Whoever you are, thank you. I was saying this back in 2008 and had the entire RPG Codex descend on me like vultures over roadkill. Torment is utter trash, and anyone who actually enjoyed it has no idea what an RPG is.
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>>2861504
>it's that designers treat it as if anyone wanted to be randomly waylaid by bandits in this kind of game
That works in service of the world building and narrative
You are immortal and you can bring your own companions back to life.
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>>2862010
>Maybe they should have balanced their game better
They did, pick the presets lol
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>>2861450
A flawless RPG doesn't exist
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>>2861261
Gameplay doesn't 100% boil down to tacticool combat. If the combat is servicable, if you have to make decisions, ration items, and approach situations differently, than its decent enough combat. Wizardry 1 combat boils down to deciding whether or not to spend a fireball and that game has excellent gameplay.
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>>2860799
>no divinity, pathfinder or xenoblade
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>>2860803
Fpbp, OP's a soullet retard
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>>2862100
Yeah I see lots of threads about those here.
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>>2860883
I would agree Arcanum is over rated. It's a under developed mess.
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>>2861450
>>2862065
Helen's Mysterious Castle is essentially flawless and it owns
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>>2860799
Can somebody tell me why BG is there? It's objectively bad fighting simulator, the rest are good rpgs
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>>2861611
>I guess this means I gonna play BG2 next
No, OP is just a retard. See >>2851889
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>>2862152
>Fallout 1
good rpg
>BG2
reddit rpg
>PST
interactive comic book
>Arcanum
oh shit nigger what are doing
>>
>>2862159
Arcanum is the best rpg ever made, you can't argue with that.
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>>2862152
Because everyone keeps sucking it off
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>>2860815
Taxonomy Error. JRPGs are a subgroup of RPGs, therefore being RPGs themselves. The refutation by >>2860803 would only be invalid if JRPGs were specifically excluded or only WRPGs in general were included.
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>>2862152
>>2862159
All four are good at offering choices and consequences in quests and bad in combat to varying degrees. If someone really loves or hates one of them, that tells you a lot about which gameplay elements that person values.
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>>2862281
>BG
>choices and consequences
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>>2861489
>Please, elaborate.
Sure. Most defense mechanics in RPGs are just busywork you don't have to put any thought into. Like in the typical JRPG you just need cast heal when your health gets low, maybe buff your defense or debuff the enemy's attack if they can 1HKO you. And WRPGs are usually straight up damage races. Sometimes you have to put your durable characters up front so they take damage for your squishy characters, but that's mindless too. And a lot of the time tank characters have taunts or similar options to make defending your party even more trivial. It doesn't have to be that way.

Good examples of positioning-based defense include traditional roguelikes and many classic board games (Chess etc). I think roguelike positioning benefits a lot from having non-modular combat eg. you never switch between exploration and combat modes, you're always in both modes, so any terrain in the dungeon is a viable place to have a fight if you can lure your enemies there (which you can't always do). Cover is really helpful for approaching ranged enemies and cheesing slow, powerful enemies. In most RPGs fights tend to be self-contained affairs, but in roguelikes it's really common for other groups of enemies to get involved when you're having a drawn out fight, so it's good to pick a battlefield that is either difficult for enemy reinforcements to approach or where you have multiple escape routes you can use, should the need arrive. Ideally you'll have both but usually you'll have to compromise, and there's a lot of tactical depth that comes from choosing which compromises to make.
>>
>>2861489
>>2862334
Another good thing roguelikes tend to do is to put a lot of limits on your healing resources. A lot of the time the really good sources of healing come from rare and valuable healing potions, and managing those involves a lot of interesting decision making. If you use them too readily you might run out and get killed in a tough fight. If you try to get by without healing you might end up putting yourself in a worse position and end up needing to drink two of them, or worse you might die with unused healing potions sitting in your inventory. There's usually some form of time limit or limit on item drops to prevent you from just farming an infinite number of them. It's a lot more interesting than having a thousand full party heal spells ready to go off whenever as in most JRPGs.
>>
>>2862336
>>2861489
I recently played an indie dungeon crawler called Potato Flowers in Full Bloom that had exceptionally good defensive mechanics. Unlike most RPGs, Potato Flowers straight up tells you what the enemy is about to do on the next turn, so you can make rational decisions about whom to defend and how to do so. Most attacks can kill your guys in 1-3 hits, but defending chops off 3/4 of the damage from incoming attacks, so defending is super important. But if all you did was have the guy being targeted defend, it'd still be just another mindless busywork system. How Potato Flowers makes defensive play excel is by offering a few alternative defensive options, and by incorporating a well-considered stamina system. Every character, player or monster, has a stamina meter, which usually will deplete after 2-4 actions. Blocking attacks also costs stamina, and if you run out they break your guard and can deal a ton of damage to you. Every character has access to a rest command which leaves you defenseless for the turn, but fully replenishes your stamina meter. So there's some interesting risk reward play where you have to decide how much stamina to spend on attacking before you need to rest. Spending all of it before resting gives you the best DPS, but it leaves you wide open and the AI will usually take advantage of that. But if you conserve your stamina too much, you'll probably lose through attrition. Risk reward systems like that where you need to balance out differing needs usually makes for good defense systems.
>>
>>2861489
>>2862336
In Potato Flowers you also have special abilities, like magic users can cast a magic barrier that reduces 90% of incoming damage for a turn, but it costs spirit (mana) which can only be replenished by resting outside of the dungeon, so you can't waste it frivolously. Lots of classes have their own defense abilities like that. Warriors and Knights have a cover ability that lets them take hits for another party member, again in exchange for spirit. Potato Flowers also has good CC mechanics with minimal randomness, so you can also prevent an attack by eg. having your wizard expend some spirit to freeze the enemy solid for a turn.
>>
>>2862341
>>2861489
Another good one is Labyrinth of Touhou 1 and 2, where you have a party of 12, where 4 form your main party and 8 form a reserve who slowly regenerate HP and SP. Your reserve party can't act but also can't be attacked. You lose if your main party is wiped out even if you still have people standing in reserve. On any turn you can switch any two characters' positions. There's a lot of interesting choices offered by that system for both offense and defense. You can build glass cannon characters with tons of attack power but will die in one hit to everything, just make sure you switch them out for someone tougher before the enemies can fire off an attack. You can also build your damage dealers a bit tougher so that they can stay out attacking for a bit longer, or so they might survive if you mess up and switch them out too late. Most of your in-combat healing options aren't that powerful, and there's no way to revive a KOed charater without leaving the dungeon, so it's really important to manage how much damage all of your characters are taking and make sure your party can still function while important members are resting in the reserve. It helps that LoT has tons of bosses, exceptionally good boss design, and better than average good buff and debuff mechanics too.
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>>2862334
>Good examples of positioning-based defense include traditional roguelikes and many classic board games (Chess etc).
You really need to play a DND game made for 3.5e onwards.
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>>2862414
What does it do beyond asking you to put the tanks in front and try not to kill your own guys with aoe attacks?
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>>2862471
A lot, too much to explain correctly in one post, but generally tools to set your character to react to approach, disrupt spellcasting, counterspell, micro-position, set up a convoluted cleave combo while moving, etc.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm

Try ToEE, KotC 1 or 2.
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>>2860799
Wrong. Game journos and more mainstream players praise Disco Elysium over PST.

I'm not sure if BG2 is THAT overrated, but it is overrated. I also dislike it because it also normalized romances in RPGs. It's like the Marvel of RPGs, lots of quips, very typical adventure in a typical setting. Still, to be fair, it knows its target audience, and it succeeded because of what it did.

Lots of people didn't play Fallout. In fact, nowadays, the most praised Fallout game is New Vegas. New Vegas, with its broken mechanics and broken engine gets much more praise, and is therefore, obviously, a more overrated game than Fallout 1.

Only some people really played Arcanum. Even when ecelebs made videos about Arcanum, and newfags made threads about it (best build, what to install, what should i know before, etc etc).. most got filtered out of Arcanum anyway. If anything, Arcanum is overhated by the people who got filtered by it. I noticed that a lot of Arcanum hate threads only started coming after those eceleb videos.
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>>2862539
>I noticed that a lot of Arcanum hate threads only started coming after those eceleb videos.
Probably because people felt the need to steer newfags away from the cancer and its fans got a rude awakening upon exiting their niche hugbox.
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>>2862539
>Wrong. Game journos and more mainstream players praise Disco Elysium over PST.
That's because Disco Elysium is actually good and not just at the level of a slightly above average comic book.
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>>2862555
Based illiterate, no wonder you got filtered.
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>>2861455
System Shock and Gothic aren't even popular around mainstream audiences, unlike the other two, wtf are you even talking about?
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>>2862518
More complexity but less depth than a traditional roguelike. Thank you (sincerely) for the recommendation, but I'll pass. I've already played Incursion and have a good understanding of that stuff.
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>>2862607
I used to play a lot of roguelikes, mostly Nethack and Sil-Q, and I'm making the same type of "what 15 steps do I need to take not to die in 2 turns" calculations I made there in KotC. (in a no scribe run anyways) Something to consider.
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>>2860799
>forgets to include Icewind Fail
kys
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Play Dark Sun.
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>>2862685
But that game is extremely mediocre and posers only play it to go "wow it's so ahead of its time!"
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>>2862619
Then I will consider it. Thank you.
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>>2862705
If you really want to stick it to BG boomers, play this and then talk about how much better it was. It's like using Daggerfall against Morrowmidwits.
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>>2862744
Liking games isn't about one-uping retards on the internet, sped.
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>>2861601
Because it's fun to be a loud contrarian on 4chan.
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>>2860827
Actual answer.
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>>2862753
I'm p. sure it is for a lot of these kids.
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>>2862744
>If you really want to stick it to BG boomers
I'd rather just play games that aren't shit instead of looking for obscure garbage to use as an internet accessory. Liking Daggerfall similiarly outs one as a massive retard, as all of TES is shit and Daggerfall is the dumbest and most braindead of them all, and some ignorant "boomer" with dementia claiming otherwise is not going to alter reality. There are many CRPGs both older and newer than these games that are far better and praising digital feces only reveals one as a moron.
>>
>>2862796
See, the problem with this is that you are still in this whirlwind of confusion in regards to assumed intentions and blinded by obvious irony while orbiting around the opinions of other people. Trapped in shell game.
>>
>>2862799
I'm not and you're hiding under 17 layers of irony to justify shoveling garbage into your goyhole, when just not being a fake faggot should have been a far greater normalfag repellant if your weren't a poser. No one is buying that you spend so much time pretending to eat shit to stick it to "Morrowmidwits" when any genuine criticism of the game gets insta-deleted for trolling, not that hard to make fun of shitty games.
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>>2862796

I love that people use "BG Boomers" when I was in the dragonplay tavern in 1998 I was laughing at the regulars there that BG wasn't a real RPG because it was real time. Only turn-based RPGs are real RPGs. You can imagine how much these young cock suckers (especially the forum's token gamergirl Chanda) hated me. I was only 22 at the time and most of that board was younger than me.

I was more into the goldbox games, Realms of Arkania, etc. Funny how now I'm the boomer.

I still say anything not turn-based is fucking shit.
>>
>>2862806
You don't understand me.
>>2862810
Similar here, BG never left much of an impression. Gold Box, Wiz 7, Star Trail, and Dark Sun were my jam.
>>
>>2862816
No, I understand you. You don't understand me. Dark Sun is not better than BG, just like Daggerfall is not better than Morrowind. BG is tragic because it is a mix of good things and awful things that set awful precedents. Dark Sun is just bad and I don't feel like debating which shit game is less bad.
>>
>>2862817
No you don't. I don't care that you don't like it, to me you also just have shit taste, and it's just an honest recommendation for others. My response was a joke about how you think people are posing.
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>>2862820
Pretending to have knowledge you clearly don't possess and contradictory behavior for the sake of justifying it is posing.
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>>2860799
those are all good though
>>2860803
hey you leave Dragon Quest out of that shitshow
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>>2862821
What knowledge?
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>>2860799
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>>2861098
Which RPGs have good character building and combat, according to you?
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>>2862889
See >>2862334
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>>2863095
but you didnt specify any rpg in that post, try again
>>
>>2863417
Traditional roguelikes like ADOM are far more pure examples of RPGs than any of the games in the OP.
>>
>>2863565
>adom
>traditional
oh no its retarded
>>
>you allocate levels and equipment to, and control multiple characters in combat
Automatically shit. Nobody plays a D&D party solo for a reason, it's fucking gay.
>D&D mechanics
Automatically shit. D&D is not a well-designed game, it's a socialization platform.
>RTWP
Automatically shit. RTWP is a bad system that has none of the upsides of real-time (challenging you to make quick decisions, internally paced gameplay) with all of the downsides of real-time, like mechanical limitations causing dumbed down as hell combat.
>There is more focus on reading than actual game mechanics
Shit.
>Romance
Shit.

Nethack got RPGs right.
>>
Honestly threads like these have made me realize that the average poster on /vrpg/ is not even sentient, but is rather a soulless contrarian golem that alternatively has /v/ or rpgcodex plugged into their brain.
>>
>>2863810
wuh oh, someone insulted his favorwite awwpeegee
>>
>>2863609
>ADOM
>MADE IN 1994
>not traditioanl according to >>2863609

Mirrors and ugly people, the metaphor illustrated.
>>
>>2863818
I don't even particularly like the games in the OP, and have multiple ones that I like more that aren't listed.

Thanks for outing yourself as one of the NPCs I mentioned though, well done.
>>
>>2863810
That's a lot of projection.
>>
>>2863839
>mindless buzzwords
Again, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Nobody talks anymore. This board is just a mindless mix of contrarian opinions mashed up with the flavor of the month buzzwords.

Are you even an actual human being? Posts like yours may as well be AI generated.
>>
>>2863841
Excuse me, I identify as a soulless NPC contrarian golem from rpgcodex who posts AI generated bait threads on /v/. None of these descriptors are buzzwords though.
>>
>>2863609
Weak bait
>>
>>2863878
>take nethack and add a modal (not a roguelike) overworld and gut all of its depth and difficulty
>b-bait
Don't act all high and mighty if you are playing garbage like ADOM rofl
>>
>>2863895
Go ahead and post your Ultra streak if it's so shallow and easy then, nigger. We'll wait.
>>
>>2860799
Lol post your own top clown.
>>
>>2865080
Hit a nerve, faggot?
>>
>>2860799
Torment and Arcanum don't fit in there because their fans don't defend every single awful design decision and can acknowledge flaws their games have.

Morrowind and New Vegas need to be there because of their obsessive fans who are vastly overrating them and excusing all their blatant issues.
>>
>>2863666
Do you think your preferences could be described as tactical combat games with rpg elements? Reading through your posts, you seem kind of... niche. Rpgs are pretty broad, which leaves a lot of room for experimentation. Why are you even bothering with this genre?
>>
>>2865080
wizardry 7
temple of elemental evil
jagged alliance 2
sil-q
>>
>>2860799
What kind of stupid cunt puts Fallout on a list like this? Everything else is arguable. Planescape and BG2 are probably the only two that deserve to be on there. No one talks about Arcanum like it's the greatest RPG ever. Fallout is a good fucking game and you can neck yourself for not liking it, tranny.
>>
>>2861016
This
>>
>>2860803
Anon we're talking about RPGs.
>>
>>2860799
There comes a time when you learn to accept that sometimes, popular thing is NOT indeed BAD, but is actually popular for a reason.
>>
>>2860799
I thought they were easily better than anything post the "CRPG renaissance" although BG2 is an incredibly boring and phoned in story.
>>
>>2865521
>NOOOOOO WHY DON'T YOU LIKE WHAT I LIKE
Take a shotgun, put it in your mouth, and pull the trigger you fucking retard
>>
>>2860799
Baldur is actually bad. Modern crpg just have everything baldur had but made it far better. Companions, quests, dialogues, literally every aspect of the game. There is no point in plaing it, if you had pathfinder or pillars of eternity.
>>
>>2869574
This
>>
>>2869574
How does being surpassed make something bad, though? Especially when you consider that the thing you praise over it wouldn't exist without the thing you are calling bad. Can a good fruit come from a bad tree?
>>
>>2869639
Yeah, I agree, it does sound contradictive.
My point is, it's not worth playing now. It's not an old masterpiece, which will never age. And if you seek the elements you liked in modern crpgs in baldur - you'll just be dissapointed.
On the other hand, I can't say the same about the other 3 games in op post. They are still quite good, and you can't get the same experience in other games.
>>
>>2869574
Not really, in BG I can kill any NPC at my discretion and take their stuff or charm them, things like that. Kingmaker kind of just felt like a soulless zoomer phone game by comparison. Like compare a town in Kingmaker to a town in BG lmao. And well, poe is just a straight up tranny abomination.
>>
>>2869654
Worth playing, that's a personal valuation, because maybe someone would want to see where those modern designs came from, to uncover what inspired these modern copycats. Anyway, that obviously doesn't make it bad. It just means you're personally unable to appreciate things contextually. No one should listen to you.
>>
>>2869672
>maybe someone would want to see where those modern designs came from
Games are ment to be played, not be studied. At least by gamers. What you are describing is literally a designer's work.
And also, applying your logic, commodore 64 is not a bad computer. You can use it just like a modern pc, ignoring the fact it can't do basic stuff you need, which is the same for BG.
>>
>>2869683
Exactly, video games aren't just practical software/hardware prone to obsolescence, they are unique experiences to occupy your leisure time. You just have a utilitarian mindset which leaves you with a fairly incoherent bias. BG1 and BG2 do provide something unique that isn't outmoded, and that's the experience of playing them. People like you should be pitied, you're a dilettante posturing as informed.
>>
>>2860799
The most overrated RPGs on 4chan are easily:

1. Fallout: New Vegas
2. Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
3. Disco Elysium
4. Pillars of Eternity

Note that none of them are bad games, but holy shit are they shilled endlessly and defended far beyond their scope by their fanbase here.
>>
>>2860799
plane scape torment is shit rpg, otherwise you're fag
>>2860803
based.
>>
>>2869747
>plane scape torment is shit rpg
arcanum is even worse by the same metric
>>
>>2865512
Managing an entire party is worse than solo for RPG specifically because parties over-weight tactical/strategic elements at the expense of immersion. Controlling a party is simply directly in conflict with playing a role, unless they're like troops in M&B that are self-managing. Reading is bad for similar reasons. VNs are not good at player interaction, the less the player interacts both in real-time frequency and in terms of story (and all developer-written story is at direct expense of player story) the less they are actually immersing in the game. Being immersed with a written story is a different experience than being immersed with RPing. That's like modern AAA "open world" games that are actually just empty maps with the popular genre game modes scattered onto it via marked travel destinations, plus a railroaded story mode: a bait and switch.

The term "RPG" isn't broad because of "experimentation", it's broad because marketing has cheapened the term into worthlessness. I'll play wizardrylikes not to play an RPG but because they're soft engineering games. I don't like RTWP CRPGs because there are better real-time tactics games. I like Xcom and other SRPGs but they're not good RPGs either. Tabletop rules are fine if you're actually playing as a group with a DM, but they simply do not work for solo video game play, and just fall back into that SRPG with ebin AAA storytelling pit again but this time with janky mechanics that weren't made for the format.

Note that tabletop is known for its relay value, and that RPGs overwhelmingly are not. "RPGs" are some of the most disposable games there are. Except roguelikes, which became so well known for replay value that every indie dev that wants to trick you into replaying their 30 minute game 20 times now calls their game """""""rogue-like""""""". Actual RPGs have high replay value while themeparks, VNs, and veiled tactics games do not.
>>
>>2869705
Post games you find better. Not even baiting, just want to try out something good.
>>
>>2869809
brigand oaxaca
>>
>>2869705
Pillars isn't overrated. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen anons here defend it, compared to the amount of anons that treat it as the worst thing to come out of the genre. If anything, it's underrated and overhated. Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous would be far more suitable for the list, since everyone here, /v/, Codex, and even Reddit treat it as the best thing ever when it's not, and will purposely avoid talking about it's flaws in order to portrait it as a masterpiece.
>>
>>2869886
>If anything, it's underrated and overhated
boy someone really wants to see a poe playthrough
>>
>>2860799
All great games
>>2860803
Lots of series - but nearly all great games in them
>>2860827
All good games, some great
There’s something wrong with this board. You should go back to the past and pick up some shovelware on a game boy or a Commodore 64. All of these games are fine. Not overrated at all.
>>
>>2869894
On the contrary, the more good games I play the less tolerant of garbage I become. Imagine actually defending skyrim.
>>
>>2869898
Pretty easy to defend. It’s lasted ten years of releases. It’s clearly good.
>>
>>2869960
>It’s lasted ten years of releases
so has the last of us. lots of terrible things continue to exist. in fact, the world is mostly made up of terrible things.
>>
>>2860799
>>
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>>2869886
No, see, posts like these are why you deserve to be slowly tortured to death in the most miserable fashion. Despite Pillars being "hated" by everyone its on the top of this catalogue 24/7. Why is it always like this I wonder? Every game that is "hated" here has the most threads which are bumped constantly. Its almost like some astroturfing NIGGER tranny is trying to culturally enrich this shithole while playing the victim, which you pretty fucking clearly aren't if you are shitting this place up constantly. Every single obsidian thread has 3-4 trannies in it that have set up shop here permanently, so much so that they outpace threads about games over 100 anons are talking about.
>I'm an annoying pest, why does everyone hate me?
Truly a mystery.
>>
>>2860799
Only overrated one on that pic is Baldurs Gate 2
>>
>>2870344
>threads about games over 100 anons are talking about.
And which might those threads be? Most can barely get 50 anons in one place, let alone a 100 or above. And the funny thing is that the top Pillars thread currently has more posters than, say, the current Kingmaker one which ironically has double the posts. But hey, it's only bad when it's Pillars and Obsidian, since this board is filled with subhuma schizos such as yourself, that have a personal vendetta against the studio. Now you can do me one of two favours. Either go back to /a/ you tranime nigger, or find the nearest high spot and jump from it.
>>
>>2869809
My personal favorite RPGs are:

Quest for Glory Anthology
Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption
Neverwinter Nights (persistent worlds)
Shadowrun: Dragonfall
The Lost Heir Trilogy
>>
>>2860799
PST is fine, but I could never get into BG1/2/FO1/2. The gameplay is fucking garbage, at least PST has a good setting and engaging sorry.
>>
>>2870433
Yes anon, I see 80 unique IPs jumping to the defense of obsidian right now. It's definitely not some faggot on a phone.
>>
>>2870492
all of this is awful, not even being a dick but your opinion is even less credible than a TES nigger
>>
>>2870517
I didn't say they were good. I said they were my favorites. Quest for Glory might very well be my favorite series of all time from any genre, but I recognize that if it were objectively good, it might get more than 20 posts before falling off the once every two months a thread gets posted.
>>
>>2860799
BG is truly the most milquetoast video game RPG series, same with how DND is the most milquetoast TTRPG. I lament the fact we are stuck in the timeline where THESE are the culture core of what we percieve as RPG's.
>>
>>2870539
>BG is truly the most milquetoast video game RPG series, same with how DND is the most milquetoast TTRPG
It really isn't. This is more in line with spics complaining that white people have no culture because it is so superior to their own that it has naturally invaded every aspect of their lives and is solely responsible for them not living in mud huts without even realizing it, and of course when you asked an anon what tabletop they play you'll receive no answer, because no sane person is playing anything else.
>>
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>>2870433
>he hasn't been informed
>>
>>2870545
Bloody fucking hell. That's an insane amount of projection. My sides.
>>
>>2870567
the gay spic is complaining about dnd right now my dude, this has always been true
>>
>>2870344
The idea is to shit up this place until everyone leaves. Then, when the board is a smoldering shit heap with no one on it they will say, "see, /vrpg/ always liked obsidian", then realize they don't even like RPGs and haven't played one in months and leave because they have no audience to get approval from.
>>
>>2870344
>post on 4chinnel at the same time every day
>surprised when other people also post at a similar time every day
Truly, a mystery
>>
>>2860799
Why are zoomers this brain damaged to shit on the best the genre has to offer?
>>
>>2869894
Chad game enjoyer
>>
>PS:T
>arguably not even a game, story is okay but everything else is a pain
>BG2
>alright
>F1
>was good before BG1 came out
>Arcanum
>broken and terrible with some neat ideas here and there
>>
>>2860803
get his ass!
>>
>>2870597
If this is the best the genre has to offer, then it was never good to begin with.
>>
>>2871989
It really shows how absolutely clueless WRPG fans are about gameplay that the four games in the OP are widely considered the genre's sacred cows. Though one could say the same about JRPG fans and stuff like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger.
>>
>>2870597

Tiktok have lowered their IQ to rival their shoe size.
>>
>>2860799
Name a game with better writing than Planescape: Torment.
>>
>>2872093
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
>>
>>2860799
I haven't played either of them.
>>
>>2872093
What do you consider as "good writing"? Pseud-bait paragraphs? Maybe plebbit purple prose? You know nothing.
>>
>>2872093
battletoads unironically
>>
>>2870517
Quest for Glory is excellent. The others might not be as good, but I can absolutely understand why Quest for Glory would be someone's favorite, even if it isn't my own.
>>
>>2860799
Overrated is not bad, though.



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