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Pretty sure a lot of you hate it, but I'm bored. Any advice for classes or fun types of characters to play? I like spellblades if that helps.
>>
dont bother
just wait for baldurs gate 3
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>>2855659
magus is the spellblade
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>>2855659
>Pretty sure a lot of you hate it
I wonder where you got that idea
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>>2855662

Tranny's Gate 3 is never going to be finished
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>>2855659
I don't talk to plebs until they graduate to CoTW.
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>>2855659
None of the classes are fun to play because no matter what you choose you end up having to try to menage 6+ units in real time like this a rts but unlike a rts units dont have 1 or 2 abilities they have 10 abilities each with each of the having diffrent amounts of amunition that you need to recharge by resting while out of combat but also resting costs gold so you need to keep track of when its most worth it to reload your 70 abilities.
Cancer.
Uninstalled this shit like 3 hours in.
>>
>>2855678
i just turned down the difficulty and one shot everything with my fighter
>>
>>2855678
You can tell this guy really has like 600 hours in Pathfinder games, so he's trying to provoke its defense.
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>>2855678
It has a turn based mode retard
You don't have to pretend that you played it
>>
I haven't played tabletop Pathfinder, is it super easy to the point where they had to inflate the stats to create a challenge for cRPG players? Compared with something like the Gold Box games where the critters were straight from the tabletop manuals and it still had challenge.
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>>2855659
>Pretty sure a lot of you hate it, but I'm bored.
Nah, we had a couple of fairly long threads on it until recently. I definitely enjoyed it and WotR.
>Any advice for classes or fun types of characters to play? I like spellblades if that helps.
Magus is generally recommended as one of the stronger and funner classes in the game. Either Swordsaint or Eldritch Scion with a dip in that monk subclass for the Cha>AC bonus.
Might be a bit complicated for a first play through depending on whether you know the pathfinder rules or not (the game really throws you into the deep end without much guidance on how shit works).
Alternatively sorcerer going into eldeitch knight or dragon disciple can be an excellent spellblade with greater variety and stronger spells but more complicated to make work.

My first and so far only playthrough was as a sylvan sorcerer and I'd say they're pretty great for a beginner. You can basically have the pet carry you while you learn the ropes.

>General advice
Give all your melee characters the Outflank feat asap
Find ways to make your own side immune to your own AoE spells - stinking cloud+delay poison is broken af, same for freedom of movement+grease/web/etc.
There are some crazy difficulty spikes for particular encounter, Owlcat really aren't any good with balancing their shit.
You'll want a good amount of cash when you go shopping Pitax.
>>
>>2855678
huh? it has the opposite problem. by mid game you just select your whole group, cast haste, then watch as entire groups of things explode as you click on them. higher difficulties are just working around boosting your rolls high enough to hit things.

it's like the least bad of the normalfag crpgs but rtwp and awful maps/encounters still makes it pretty bad, and no turn based does not fix, they just slapped it in there without any balance or good ai
>>2855659
play challenging (core) difficulty, make sure a cleric is in your party, coup de grace kills trolls, magus is spellblade and it's a good class but has a a bit of micro. plan out your feats and spells beforehand.
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My advice is to take no advice from anyone in this thread and just play the fucking game.
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>>2855678
Just use heal lol
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>>2855701
>There are some crazy difficulty spikes for particular encounter, Owlcat really aren't any good with balancing their shit.
I think Owlcat is just particularly bad at telegraphing WHEN you should tackle certain encounters.
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>>2855827
that was when I decided to restart as defender of the true world and KILL ALL FEY SCUM
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Using Octavia with her Orc boyfriend along with the Gnome alchemist is the most fun you're going to have.

And don't make her a spellcaster. She is uber powerful as a martial flanker, and so it the Rego.
My favoutire build for Octavia
4 Rogue levels
5 Sword Saint levels
10 Duelist levels

My favourite build for Rego
4 Thug levels (very RP friendly)
16 Magus levels
>>
>>2855659
Depends on whether game's timed nature or Kingdom management filter you like they did a lot of people.
>>
Melee classes kick ass in this game.

Fighters Fucking awesome (except for the tower shield fighter)
Monks, fucking awesome.
Paladins, fucking awesome.
Slayers, fucking awesome.
Rangers, fucking awesome.


Spellcasters are lame as fuck. They are just crown control dispensers.
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>>2855874
hey, they buff too!
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shaken, frightened, sicken + infinite 1 round grease -> per round forced aoo = fun.
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I feel like a weirdo in these threads because I never multiclass.
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>>2855905
Pathfinder is about character building autism. That's the main draw.
>>
The biggest problem I had with pathfinder was the fanbase.
They kept yapping on and on about Kingdom management but never talk about the things that really matters = the Artisan system.

So my first playthrough was horribly suboptimal. I prioritised the quests with expiration dates instead of founding new villages in newly annexed regions.
And the artisan system was never explained to me so I didn't understand I needed the additional villages, and negotiating with each artisan from each village, and building their buildings.
>>
>>2855908
For you, for me it's very easy to have fun building within a class and using what I have to meet what I face. I feel like builds are a crutch for bad play.
>>
Hell I didn't even realise Bokken was an artisan even during the playthrough.

He just came across as a baddass NPC who gives me more awesomesauce items (for some strange reason) than the other NPCs, I shrugged it off as due to old friendship.
>>
>>2855908
Character building is not just multiclassing.
>>
>>2855926
Yup. This also becomes more apparent in the sequel when you have to think up many other combinations such as background and its associated bonuses, and the expanded feats list also enables much more varied builds even within 1 class.
>>
Second playthrough, I'm going to make Tristian a mystic theurge, and use him instead of Linzi.

What are some unironacally&surprisingly good weapons for the Monk?
>>
>>2856000
>I'm going to make Tristian a mystic theurge
Don't. MT is good on paper and at high level but getting there (most of the game) is shit. And in the end you have not so good divine and not so god arcane caster with horrible UI (you have two full sets of spells in cleric and sorcerer lists in spell selection panel)
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>>2856014
I know what I'm doing now, he's just going to be my grease / pit bot.
>>
>What are some unironacally&surprisingly good weapons for the Monk?
Pls respond.

Should I just give the Monk a 2 handed weapon so it amplifies with Power Attack and Dragon Style?
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>>2856035
Unarmed dragon style will work better with the fist scaling, honestly.
>>2856018
Losing the late level slots for metamagic and lv8/9 buffs hurts.
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>>2856043
>>Losing the late level slots for metamagic and lv8/9 buffs hurts.
It's a fair trade.
The cost is
One level 7 divine spell slot.
Two level 8 divine spell slot
Three level 9 divine spell slot.

The gain is 6 x spell slots for arcane levels 1-5.
And 4 x spell slits for arcane level 6.
that's a boat loaf of slots for Grease and Pits.
>>
Nevermind, I read the charts wrong. Apparently they configured the spell slot system in such a way that the Mystic Theurge will always lose all of the level 9 spell sslots.

Back to the drawing board.
>>
>>2856014
>Don't. MT is good on paper
It could be argued the Mystic theurge is weak in the first 7 levels.
Then he scale up like mad between level 7-17 when the party needs him the most.
And then he gets gradually weaker in the end compared to single class caster.
>>
>Mystic theurge is weak in the first 7 levels.
>Then he scale up like mad between level 7-17 when the party needs him the most.
*And then the game ends.
>>
>>2856054
Losing out spell progression and slots for heighten (if you want to keep using grease) is not ideal. Having Octavia or a merc Full arcane caster plus Tristian for divine shit just works better
Mystic theurge in kingmaker vanilla only makes sense as a concentrated buffbot essentially
>>
>>2856061
Yeah, you only progress 10 levels for both spellcasting classes.
In Wrath, Theurge is a bit more tolerable if you go lich or angel due to merge
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>>2856116
It's a tricky bitch system.
Cleric gets 2nd level spells at level 3.
Sorcerer doesn't get 2nd level until level 4. (needs to be Empyrael Sorcerer otherwise you don't get Wis modifier for Arcane)
So no matter how it's combined you can't get the level 9 spells because Cleric needs 17 levels for level 9 slots, and sorcerer needs 18 levels for level 9 slots.
>>
Oh shit, I just realised Harrim is the superior Mystic Theurge.
The Cleric channeling spells will be stuck at level 3, so the Selective Channeling feats chosen for Tristian becomes relatively worthless.

Whereas Harrim gets to wear Heavy armor. It's going to cost him some Arcane armor feats, but with some buffs he becomes a front line Mystic Theurge.
>>
>>2855897
does this even work above normal difficulty
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>>2856114
I think -3 to DC and a bit of delay isn't a deal breaker.

Remember you're an entire team, so you can start by using Tristian as a pure cleric and get awesome Channel energy from him.
Then you can replace Tristian with Mystic Theurge Harrim once he scales past Tristian.
Man just imagine Harrim fully armored with Divine Power and all the other cleric buffs pumping him up. Then the arcane spell casting on top of that shit as well.
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>>2856043
Since I'm not using Linzi maybe I should become a Sensei monk so I can still give some sort of Aura to the party.
>>
HOLY SHIT the sensei gets to use Wisdom modifier for attack rolls.

I wonder what sort of multiclassing options that enables.
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>>2855659
Magus is pretty sweet on turn based, but annoying to micromanage in rtwp.
But then the game is much more enjoyable in turn based mode in general, so go magus.
Switch back to rtwp to fight trash mobs though, it's quicker.
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Sensei 2
Cleric 18 + pet from animal domain.

This has to be the ultimate melee cleric build.
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Shit. Dragon Style requires 15 STR, and my Sensei only has 10 STR.

What do I do? Belts and buffs?
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Okay fuck the dragon Style.

Pummeling Style is actually perfect for the Sensei.
Plus this style adds Trip effect + Pounce effect to the monk.
>>
The Monk is a really interesting class to balance the feats around.

If I pick Dragon Style I'm point to be doing a lot of damage. Which means it's not so necessary to invest feats into Power Attack, and Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defense. I can use the feats on defensive things like Shake it Off, Blindfight etc.

If I pick Crane Style then I have a lot of defensive abilities. But I lack offensive power, so I can pick things like Shatter Defense and Power Attack, Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash.
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>>2855659
Don't hyper optimize. Just play it. The only thing I might recommend is that one mod that makes all Kingdom actions take one turn. But, even then, don't overthink it. Just play.
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>>2856353
It's going to be challenging to play for the first time, but I agree.

Optimising is fun for 2nd+ playthroughs though.
My new Sensei build:
level 1:
level MBF: Combat Reflexes (Might as well get this so I can AoO when opponent falls/get up)
level 3: Combat Expertise (Required by Trip)
level 5: Trip (required by Pummeling Bully)
level 7: Pummeling Style (requires base attack 6)
level 9: Pummeling Bully (requires base attack 9)
level 11: Greater Trip (Might as well get that extra AoO when opponent falls)
level 13: Pummeling Charge (requires base attack 12)
level 15:
level 17:
level 19:
>>
Shit. the Pummeling Style is kind of expensive now that I think about it.
And it goes online so late into the game.

It's really no wonder the Crane Style and Dragon Style are more popular.
>>
>>2856382
>>2856380
Never really looked at pummeling style before.

If it works with weapons then I might need to respec my wotr legend sohei build to use it.
A free trip attempt every round would go nicely with the blind+disarms he's getting with every crit.
>>
>>2856423
I suspect it's multiple trip attempts every round.
But in WotR you're probably better off with a Sensei2/Cleric18 /Angel.

I'm currently trying to see if a Sensei2/Blight Druid18 makes sense in Kingmaker. It sounds interesting.
>>
>>2856426
Is it just me or are base druids kinda shit in pathfinder? The spell list seems lacking and wild shape is just awful. Seriously, am I missing something with wild shape?

Blight druid seems like it would be pretty useful in a game with so many monsters using natural attacks against you but losing a pet would hurt - are you still able to pick up an animal companion through your domain choices?
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>>2856436
Defender of the True World is the druid to go for because Fey make for a sizeable portion of enemies towards the end. I agree, losing the animal companion is not worth it as Blight druid.
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>>2856436
>are you still able to pick up an animal companion through your domain choices?
Nope.

But I'm still interested because of pic related.
Plus the Wild Hunts and other Fey are weak against Fortitude saves.
And boththe Miasma and Plaguebearer are Fortitide Saves.

>>2856441
Pic related will just make the Miasma effect that much more powerful.
The 2 Sensei levels will be a melee monster because of the Druid build's high Wisdom.
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>>2855852
>Suggesting the cuck and whore SJW bullshit henchmen

Kill yourself ASAP faggot.
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>>2856445
But it's tradition in these types of games to waifu the elves / half elves.
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>>2855659
>mfw it took me well over a month to realize I can build new towns
>>
>3 Fey surround you
>They think they have the advantage
>Heart of Ira dish out 6D6 damage per round in total
>Fey fails fortitude save
>Fey is sickened
>>–2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
>Fey is nauseated
>>Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.
This Blight Druid business is OP in Kingmaker.
>>
>>–2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
By the way this -2 also applies to combat maneuver defense.
So your Sensei 2 will Trip the shit out of these cunts.
>>
Another interesting combination is
Sensei 15 / Blight Druid 5.

You can still perform the Heart of Ira + Miasma maneuver. Plus you have enhanced bard aura, and the Mass Barkskin / Restoration from Sensei. Plus the upgraded attack dice for unarmed strike.
>>
>Sensei 15 / Blight Druid 5.
This one gets a significantly weaker DC for Miasma effect though.

Anyway, you should have 11 STR, so you can cast Bull's Strength and get 15 STR to qualify for Dragon Style.
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>>2856380
>melee build without outflank and improved critical
>fist build rather than high crit range weapon
>taking trip feats at all when pets exist
Hahahaha
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>>2856473
There are empty slots for customization.
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>>2856475
>outflank at level 15
>trip feats
>no weapon focus/dazzling/shatter
>using wisdom for attack rolls when strength is infinitely more stackable
Hahahaha
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>>2855659
>spellsword
try Magus to trigger spells with melee attacks or Inquisitor to have some kind of divine spellsword
either way, play on normal and learn the game. Also take Blind fight on every character, there is point in the game with insane difficulty spike where immunity for gaze attacks is very valuable. For party members, take ones that are easy to build
>Jubilost
just 20 lvls of Alchemist, bombs are great
>Regongar
16 levels of Magus and 4 lvl of Dragon Disciple to get that bonus STR
>Nok-Nok
he's great damage dealer, just level him as Knife Master
>Harrim
20 lvl cleric, just give him longspear so he stays out of threa range
>Jaethal
as undead she's immune to status many effects, like poison or stat drain. Give her 2 levels of Two-Handed Fighter, equip with fauchard and heavy armor and then take remaining levels as Inquisitor.
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>>2856476
There are lots of wisdom boosting gear.
The there are also 1 extra slots at level 1 if you are that desperate.
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>>2856266
Why should I play with?
>statinflation
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>>2855659
How viable is an evil character in Kingmaker?
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>>2856506
As long as you are not picking all the chaotic evil options that kill companions, artisans and quest givers early, you will be fine.
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>>2856454
gotta start over, anon
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>>2856506
try Lawful Evil, roleplaying as ruthless despot is cool.
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>>2856478
1) You can't take outflank at level 1.
2) The only wisdom boosts in this game are enhancement bonuses, which do not stack with one another. Whereas in the case of strength you have enhancement bonus from belt, size bonus up to +6 from legendary proportions, as well as another +2 morale bonus from the rage spell.
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>>2856676
Oh, there's also even the alchemical bonus which stacks on top of that, which you can access by taking even just one level of alchemist, unlike the wisdom bonus from cognatogen which requires at least two.
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>>2856676
The answer would have been to shift combat expertise to level 1, Trip to level 3, then outflank at level 5. And you would have gotten the same result. But hey let's omit that just to win internet points.

>Muh legendary proportions
Maybe I don't give a fuck about some spell I get after the game is ending.
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>>2856688
A lv 13 wizard/14 sorcerer/14 octavia gets it. That means you can easily get it during Barbarian assault
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>>2855668
*SNIFFFFFF*
Yeah, I can smell my PC melting from these "beautiful" graphics already!
>>
>>2856688
You still get enlarge person at literally level 1, which there is no wisdom equivalent of.

As for outflank, it should always be taken at the same time as when your 3/4 BAB characters get it, meaning level 7 at the earliest. Also again, I don't understand why the hell you're taking trip when pets exists, all it does is eat an action.
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>>2856692
>it should always be taken at the same time as when your 3/4 BAB characters get it
That's retarded, it would mean your monk will delay his pummeling strike which is the entire point of the build.
>I don't understand why the hell you're taking trip when pets exists
It's because you're retarded and don't understand the definition of prerequisite.
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>>2856436
>but losing a pet would hurt
How much would it actually hurt you if the Fey can neutralise the pet which lacks Blindfight?
If the opponent neutralists your pet, then the Fey Stalker ability becomes largely useless, doesn't it?
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>>2856898
I think echolocation works?
Jubi would cover it in that case
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>>2856909
Exxholocation prtects you from gaze? I don't think so.

So in the end the Fey Stalker isn't really that good for this particular game.
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>>2856914
It's been a while, but I think it gives the exact same benefits as blind fight. I never really bothered to check last run cause I just had the twins throw eruption, deadly earth etc in every room
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Fey Stalker doesn't stack with Linzi's buff.
That makes Defender of the True World largely non-spectacular.

What does that archetype have left?
Feybane which is decent +2 DC buff.
Enemy of the Fey which is also decent +2 attack/damage roll.
And immunity to Fey mind effects at the cost of immunity to poison.
>>
>>2856922
It's probably safest to assume it doesn't protect from gaze attacks.

So there is some merrits to the Blight Druid who can at least wreck Fey and all plants and animals with their AoE aura.
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>>2856929
>It's probably safest to assume it doesn't protect from gaze attacks.
Well, owlcat forums, steam and reddit seem to indicate that it does actually work for gazes too, from random google search
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>>2855909
Eeh Artisans are not very fun, their quests are very mid, they are infinite monney printers crafting weekly artifacts worth 10k+, and their masterpieces also kind of break the game, at least the trader bitch in your town. 5 charges Maximise Empower Spellimunity pierce is a stupid function for a wand to have...
I can see why you'd want to know this, but bleh I wish I didn't do it just wanting to 100% the game in my first run.
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>>2856986
>Eeh Artisans are not very fun
To some people the most fun part of these games is to find newer and better gear.
>>
character tier lists, go. for me its:

A tier: valerie, tristian
B tier: jubilost, linzi
C tier: harrim, ekundayo
D iter: octavia, ragnorak or whatever his name is, the tiefling and all other followers not mentioned
F tier: amiri, jaethal, nok-nok
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>>2857569
>valerie in A tier
>ekundayo in c tier
Really? Literally just give him the oversized bow and he will just slaughter everything.
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>>2857576
It could be he is not ranking them based on utility, just preference. Or that many companions can do decent job at killing but few are specced for tanking
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>>2855694
It's more that you have far greater potential to break the game if you know what you're doing.
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>>2857576
valerie is pretty and I want her to sit on my face so shes better. ekundayos solid, the stoic personality type is decent if not a bit boring.
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>>2857569
You mean
>S tier: My sorc's smilodon bro
>A tier: Twincest Red, Twincest Blue
>B tier: Valerie, Linzi
>C tier: Ekundayo, Amiri
>D tier: Everyone else
>F tier: Tristian
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>>2857569
nok-nok and jubilost are the strongest characters in the game by far. put them together and they will carry you through the whole game, even on unfair.
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>>2857685
>Rating companions based on strength instead of style, personality and coom
Ishiggydiggy
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>>2857688
Jubilost and Ekundayo are the best characters not only because of their usefulness but also for their personality, quest.
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>>2857688
>instead of style, personality and coom
none of that is good in pathfinder and only a literal transexual would care about owlcat characters
>>
>>2857927
This. The most """beloved""" by the average faggot in /vrpg/ is Linzi, by far the most intolerable, annoying, insufferable character ever written in a videogame. The best written, less annoying most enjoyable character owlcat makes are the ones made to be unlikable, like Regill and Juubilost
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>>2857688
Yeah nah, I don't want to waifu wank over a zoomer game. The strength of this game is entirely in its systems. Please kill yourself.
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>>2857929
>The most """beloved""" by the average faggot in /vrpg/ is Linzi
Are those Linzi posters in this thread with us right now?
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>>2857929
Companions is the worst part of Pf:K imo, some outright make the game worse.
Tiers
A : Other games should copy this
B : Good, A asset to the story
C : Has content = better than merc
D : I'd rather have a merc
F : A liability, should be rewritten.
The best companion in the game is Kanerah, she's based, funny and genneraly well written intro is strange tho.
She'd be real waifu material if she didn't fuck for power, but that's what lawful evil offers, and having her not do it wouldn't make sense. OP class B+
Blue goat is too naive to really be fun, and didn't say all that much, though I had both in party all game, Does it matter which is active? Over all she left a bit of a weak but cute impression, B-
Jubiliost is fine, his story goes somewhere, him beeing a asshole is often funny. also OP class B-
Tristian is anoying, whiny and effete, but has a lot of story which is almost good, he's still a bitch. C-
Linzi is fine. She's the chipper do-gooder type char. Some hate it, I don't hate it. B-
Valerie is too busy beeing a male warrior stereotype who's thing is that she's actually a woman and *pretty* to be anything else. But she's very useful, C-
Amiri is a whiny feminist powerfantasy bitch. All her story parts are packed with that trash and anoying. D-
Rog is kind of funny, his story is basic slave stuff which is fine but nothing more. C+
Octavia is a lustful whore, which is different and strange, it eventually just got anoying. Found prestige class too late so she was just a bit sub-par all game. C-
I disslike Harrim, his atitude makes him anoying. His story is fanfic stuff, his stats are bad. D
I never used Jaethal, maybe that's why her story just felt fail-edgy? Her self is another pleasure seeker? Fine I guess D+ as healing her is a pain.
I didn't use Ekun, just no space for him. Didn't like his quest much but he's ok. C
I disslike Nok-nok, having a goblin in a hero groups is dumb and his story is stupid. he's got good stats and some content though C-
>>
>>2858088
>amiri is a whiney feminist power trip
Really? Her quest reveals she is 100% bullshit
>>
>>2858114
I'm quite certain we had this same discussion on this board 1-2 years ago. We don't agree, and that is fine.
Yes she found the sword sneaking and didn't kill the giant or whatever. Yes she needs help in every part of her quest. She's still a male barbarian with a female pronoun, for no reason to make a "strong" female blah, who becomes the chieftain of the tribe, blah blah glass ceeling, blah hear me roar blah.
I hate those stories, slightgly subverting it by making her less mary-sue to where she needs a bit of help now and then doesn't really change the core of it.
It's so bad and pointlessly formulaic that it harms the game. At least parts of her story should had been rewritten, if they had had the rights to do so.
Which we also know they didn't, so whatever. She and the other weak snowflake companions are my largest complaint with the game as a whole.

The only other part I really don't like about the game is the dumb way mob difficulty pauses at Armags toomb, to not increase again untill House. Where it suddenly jumps to the level it should had been ramping towards during the events inbetween. Making everything feel really hard suddenly, because you didn't have to try for ~20 hours of gameplay.
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>>2858152
>we had this convo
No we didn't you schizo. I'm not who ever you were talking with before.
The fact that Amiri is literally full of shit and the fact that she would completely fail with out your help negates any claim she's a Mary Sue. She is also disliked or hated by most npcs also negating her Mary Sue status. I hate how people like you don't even know the terms your using.
It's fine to dislike the character because her personality is grating (it is) or her base class sucks (it does) or you dont like her story (its midling) but don't make shit up about a character to just hate on it.
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>Tank has fighting defensively buff cause he is critically missing. the mook right next to him.
>Thug scares mook away
>Tank has nothing to swing and miss at and loses buff.
>suddenly archers from far range can hit him.
>the mook comes back and hits him first.
>weapon switching takes a full round.
How to solve this problem?
>>
>>2858088
>Linzi is fine
Linzi is annoying because she's the writer's pet, she literally steals from the players and the game treats it like a joke even if you are Lawful Evil there's no way to punish her for it. She, despite being a literally who bard gets to crown the king despite having other sovereigns and several high priests to do it a fucking whore midge crowns you the king. Everytime she opens her damn mouth is like reading the script from Steven Universe, she's one of the two reasons I stopped playing KM. Fuck Linzi and fuck everyone who likes her
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>>2858088
>Octavia is a lustful whore
Why you have to be so rude Anon? Don't call her a whore just because you want to sleep with her.

>Valerie
>But she's very useful
Heresy.
Valerie made me seethe because she couldn't equip the Dueling gloves that are literally made for Fighters. Because he archtype is retarded and don't have even 1 weapon training.
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>>2858172
...I even said outright that she's "less of a mary sue" as she needs help.
But you latched on to that line and completely ignored my real complaint, which is the fact that this character is used to ham-fistedly force every player to read and process this moronic feminist narrative, in this medieval setting where it has no place.
Into a game I'm playing for my enjoyment.
Because this is not some mainstream news sermon where I expect to be talked down to by some two bit feminist writer spewing her oligarchy approvede talkingpoints (tm)

Which is why I'm complaining about it. I don't want this shit in any game, she's the lever to insert it, the game, and Amiri would be a lot better without retreadubg this inspid story, and her having at least a few femnine traits.

In the end, Octavia also is a vector for another feminist talking point. "sex-positivism" or whatever it's called, but at least that one is just "sluts are good" which fitts nicely inside the setting and doesn't come off as excessively on your nose preachy.

>>2858199
I don't hate Octavia it's just that one of her defining traits is to randomly say really lewd things that make it clear she really loves to fuck. Such as her argument with that priestess over who's orgies are better, or the whip, or... I'm certain there are at least a few more I've forgotten. Anyway, beeing really lewd is her bit, wether Charname has sex with her or not.
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>>2858227
>retreadubg
*retreading
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>>2858192
Eeeh she's not quite Divinity orignial sin 1 level of flippant liberal shithead writing. Which made me quit the game after the secound chapter both times I atempted to play it.

But yeah she does get away with a lot of stuff, and you can't kick her out and get anabelle or someone to replace her even if you're evil or just hate her.
You do have a point there...
>>
>>2858227
>less of a Mary Sue
She isn't by any metric a Mary Sue. Tard. I'm calling you out on that because you don't know the term you are using and are throwing it around to make your point more valid. It's a faggot way of making a point and you should stop. It devalues the rest of your points. Faggot.
>she's a feminist power trip!!!!
Yet, at every point of the game she requires you, the player... a male (unless you play as a woman like a tranny), to fix everything for her. She would completely and utterly fail with out you. She also is the reason why her tribe is wrecked by a ghost. You can even tell her off as the player and she needs help killing a pig! So how are you being talked down to by the writers anon?
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>>2858246
>So how are you being talked down to by the writers anon?
You know, you cannot rape her or slap her for correction
>>
>>2858088
>Amiri is a whiny feminist powerfantasy bitch
No that's Valerie
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>>2858890
>whoman crying about women fawning over her beauty but cries the moment she gets a scar
>the good end of her arc is realizing her stance of 'all art is worthless' is kinda retarded
>9 int
Sure
>>
>>2858890
the difference between amiri and valerie is that the barb bitch has a really bad voice actor, so it's far more annoying.
>>
>>2858899
Vals is, according to feminist narratives, "indoctrinated" into thinking that it's a bad thing to take advantage of your beauty to get ahead in society. That people should earn their praise and their stations. She quit the knights because they pampered her in all these excessive ways over her beauty. Because she thought that was wrong and wanted to be rewarded for merit instead.
In the end she embraces her beauty and the power it gives her.
It is the feminist anti-meritocratic argument and narrative, which obviously feminism needs, as women are worse than men at everything except beeing attractive and having children.

>>2858907
They are both vehicles for feminist narratives, the key difference is the angle of the feminist narrative they're written to push. The "women should be leaders" one is the more offensive and retarded one. As almost no woman is fit to be a leader, usualy even most beta men do a better job at it than the most competent women, and everyone knows this.

The "women should not be ashamed of getting things for looking pretty" is a far more reasonable line, and makes sense on a basic level. It only becomes problematic when it gets to university grading, or real succubus behaviour like say, Kamala Harris.

I think Amiris VA was given a bad lot, and does what she can with it. It's not a outstanding performance, but it's fine imo.

And as an inb4, I don't "hate women" I hate the idea that women should rule over men, which is insane and has, over the last 40 years proven just how destructive it is.
>>
got the game on sell but im not sure what class i wanna play. heard paladins are pretty meh. maybe a oracle melee build?
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>>2859054
Paladins are good, but number of evil enemies is kingmaker is pretty low especially late game (works against most bosses at least), so smite evil and mark of justice get less use. The auras are good support though. You go for a two hander or archer build and fire from safety, and you have good enough saves to not be bothered.
Hospitaler is a fun full fighter who heals the party well, but good parties should not get hurt much after a certain point.
Paladin is a very good lv2-3 dip fopr various reasons.

Paladin value goes up in Wrath since most enemeis are evil and they can get a pet
>>
>>2855659
Playing a spellblade now, it’s pretty fun. I just recently learned there may be a slight exploit in the game. If you make a round of attacks then use a quicken metamagic rod to make an additional spell attack- if that attack is a touch attack like vampiric touch- you get another full round of attacks.
>>
>>2856448
Yes, but you have the superior necromancer mommy elf and failing that, the hot tiefling twins if you're looking for something outside the box.
>>
>>2859059
i have been playing Around with builds. cant decided between two handed warrior/dragon disciple or thug/duelist.
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>>2859095
My personal opinions:
>two handed warrior build
Pure is pretty strong. You have one job, and that is to smack people around. You can either stop at 15 for greater power attack and splash 5 levels in things that give you quick bonuses or get the basic feats and up to greater weapon focus , backswing and weapon training at 9.
Enlarged and with a reach weapon, you will murder in a 20ft radius

> thug/duelist.
If you want to do duelist, I'd suggest you either go for a full bab class (which is essentially fighter or aldori defender) or for sword saint.
Though rogue 4 for finesse/uncanny dodge, some fighter levels and duelist is okay too

Generally, even if it is technically viable, rogue is the one class I would not suggest to anyone go for more than 10 levels even on normal or challenging
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>>2858928
>succubus behavior like say, Kamala Harris.
I feel like succubi would be offended by the comparison.
>>
>>2858928
Peak chudcel.
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>>2859107
i have decided. i will be a sword saint. what weapon should i focus on?
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>>2859133
Scimitar, estoc, bastard sword, fauchard or greataxe.
>>
>>2859133
Some pretty good dueling swords in the game. Two handed is pretty viable. Or rapiers.
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>>2856477
>Jaethal
>as undead she's immune to status many effects, like poison or stat drain. Give her 2 levels of Two-Handed Fighter, equip with fauchard and heavy armor and then take remaining levels as Inquisitor.

She's a pretty solid tank
3 inq/ ES 13 / 4DD.
or 3 inq / 17 SS
and she get to keep her scythe for extra style points.
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>>2859065
Jaethal doesn't let the baron mate with her.
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>>2858199
That's a Paizo problem. Like, legit Paizo. They didn't standardize language and they're retarded now.
>>2859326
Jaethal isn't fertile. And if you go the reincarnation route recall what happened to her last child.
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>>2859338
That doesn't matter regarding the point. If she won't let you mate with her, then she isn't affectionate to that degree. She would never be a good wife.
>>
>>2859344
It's implied in the ending slide if you let jaethal take over her daughter's body that you and jaethal fug alot.
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>>2859377
Ending slides are not enough. It needs to be done in-game.
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>>2859344
"Mating" and "fucking" are two very different things. Like "siring" and "parenting".
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>>2859392
The lolicons told me mating press is the same thing as sex.
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>>2855662
BG3 is scheduled for late 2023. That's if it's not delayed again. There's plenty of time for a few playthroughs of kingmaker.
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>>2855678
The game has a turn-based mode. Try using that if you're filtered by the real time with PAUSE mode.
> but unlike a rts units dont have 1 or 2 abilities they have 10 abilities
That's why there's the pause.
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>>2859404
I knew it. I left a YouTube comment on one of those BG3 videos from Larians channel about how bad the EA version is like a year ago and got dogpiled with cope and excuses. The game is a complete mess.
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Hungerseed is an exceptionally good class for the Pummeling style Monk.
The Motherless is a solid class for the Dragon style Monk.

Both classes are good for the Sensei as well.
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Shit. I can't fit Seize the Moment feal into this build. Something has to give.
Maybe if I play as a Human instead. That would be RP friendly since monks are typically humans.
But then I lose all of those cool Tiefling bonuses.
>level 1: Combat Expertise (Required by Trip)
>MBF: Combat Reflexes (Required by Seize the Moment)
>level 3: Trip (required by Pummeling Bully)
>level 5: Outflank
>level 7: Pummeling Style (requires base attack 6)
>level 9: Pummeling Bully (requires base attack 9)
>level 11: Greater Trip (Might as well get that extra AoO when opponent falls)
>level 13: Pummeling Charge (requires base attack 12)
>level 15:
>level 17:
>level 19:
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>>2859936
Seize the moment is 'Win More' at this point rather than necessary for the build
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>>2859939
Seize the moment is more a martial party thing where you might use something like a Mystic Theruge to cover both your divine and arcane buffs.
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>>2859942
That's the fun type of party where everybody does something kickass every second.

Harrim could be my Mystic Theurge, and since he has heavy armor + Steel soul he can have Seize the Moment in the frintline as well.
That frees up Octavia to be a badass Sword Saint.
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>>2859944
Don't make Harrim a mystic theruge. It's a terrible idea since he will miss out on his cleric levels. Make Tristian your Mystic Theruge. Hes never useful in combat, while Harrim is very useful in physical combat.
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>>2859954
Harrim doesn't have to be good in combat. He can cover all of the arcane crowd control needs. And I can still put him in the front line, he just won't damage as much, but still be better than nothing.

His function is to free up the arcane mage duty of another NPC.
Just like my Sensei function is to free up the Bard duty from Linzi.
Both of these functions adds 2 other melee capable NPCs into the party.
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>>2859936
outflank and seize the moment don't stack though, i thought. all you need is everyone with melee having outflank.
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>>2859959
In my opinion it wastes too much of what Harrim is good at to make him a MT.
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>>2859939
I have an idea, I can just delay Greater trip until level 15.
Then Seize the Moment can fit into level 11 slot.

The monk won't be a critical component of the Seize the moment systme anyway since he only crits on a 20. So level 11 isn't all that bad.
>>
>The monk won't be a critical component of the Seize the moment systme anyway since he only crits on a 20. So level 11 isn't all that bad.
But by this logic Seize the Moment could also just be delayed until level 15. Maybe that's the thing to do, since Greater Trip will guarantee an extra AoO more often.
>>
>>2855659
I'm going to finish this game someday, I've tried no fewer than a dozen times but I always get distracted by something else and put it on indefinite hold, then I come back to it months later only to get distracted again by something else. But I total will finish it one day, absolutely for sure, just not now, but soon, maybe after I finish with reborn.
>>
Kingmaker is fun, and WOTR improves upon it, but what WOTR fixes from Kingmaker it then bungles by missing what Kingmaker had that caused the problems.

Kingdom Management was involving if you were aiming to get everything done, you could rush the story, then do that stuff. There was lots to do (and a lot of copy-pasted one-shot zones), and you were time gated by bullshit like "This curse takes 90 days to research and only your High Priest can do it and I sure fucking hope nothing comes up he needs to handle in the mean time!"

WOTR does away with all of the time gating, planning, stressful bullshit... but then there's nothing to do, so you'll finish the adventuring gameplay side before the Crusade's even got going.
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>>2860131
I'm the sameboat. heck, I finished WotR before this one but I think the reason maybe why we keep abandoning the game is because the writing is dry.
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>>2860235
It had too many maps where there was only 1 opponent creature, and nothing else to do in the map.
That was kind of epidemic.
But I understand why they ended up that way. It's because they wanted numerous high quantity of locations so the world map ended up being about exploration of many locations.

I was also a bit disappointed in the Thornford.
I had expected it to be more...more Robin Hood and fantasy version of Notthingham forests, the kind of place with more treetop terrain and bridges between treetops. The kind of place where bandits and highway robbers rule the day, where armies of the Baron gets their ass handed to them if they venture too far.

Instead we got a little campfire, and a merry band of bandits enjoying their booze.
So yeah.
(The vest side of the Thornford was well made, those 2 bandits actually go into stealth if you try to attack them then evacuate away from their camp)
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Ah, now I understand why there is that Masterwork Nunchaku in the Aldori mansion.
It's a crutch for the Sensei archetype with how STR and high WIS. At level 1 they don't have their WIS bonus applied to base attack yet. So the Nunchaku helps them a little bit.
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This Trading post was kind of awesome. It even had watch towers, and they didn't use the opportunity to implement some sort of tower defense mini game with it.
>>
>>2856477
>>2859143
What about Attribute allocation?
She is melee character, but the game recommends I put points into Wisdom.

Isn't that a little bit weird?
>>
>>2860986
She's an inquisitor, they're a spellcaster who's spellcasting stat is Wisdom, that's why they recommend it. But it's not necessary.
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>>2860994
So I just go STR instead?

I'm not sure I want to go Sword Saint with her. because I already have high INT Octavia for Sword Saint.
Eldritch Scion might be possible, but I need to investigate this class first.

Leveling her up in Two Handed Fighter so she gets Backswing makes much more sense to me.
Plus the Fighter feats can select Teamwork feats too, so this benefits Solo Tactics a ton.
Plus I get 2-handed weapon training, which might work with the Dueling gloves, not sure about his one though. But I NEED someone in my party to be able to use those damn gloves.
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>Plus I get 2-handed weapon training, which might work with the Dueling gloves, not sure about his one though.
HOLY SHIEEEEEET it works.
It actually does work with 2-handed weapon training.

Giving Jaethal 7 levels in Two-Handed Fighter really does go a long way in this game.
Why didn't I just do this sooner? Fuck.
>>
I wish Tower-Shield Training worked with Dueling Gloves.
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>>2861001
Jaethal's main strength as an inquisitor will be teamwork feats, especially Outflank. You can keep pumping her strength and let items carry her Wisdom.

>>2861020
Oh if you've moved her out of Inquisitor to multi into Fighter? Yeah you pump strength. Another thing to give Jaethal a boost is to grab 1 level in Sorcerer, grab a Dragon bloodline and then grab 4 levels in Dragon Disciple. The Dragon Discipl levels will boost her stats, give her a breath weapon, and a bite attack on top of the scythe. It'll improve her all around.
>>
>>2860925
Yeah, this is definitely an issue Kingmaker had which was excusable with "Well it's their first game and they just wanna populate their world." That said, I prefer it to Wrath's "Also shittily populated area, but less of them and you have less to do all around."

Wrath's better in a lot of ways but man it fucked up some of the good from Kingmaker.
>>
There is so much synergy between Inquisitor <----> Fighter/Slayer.
The Inquisitor wants as many powerful teamwork feats as possible, and the Fighter and Slayer can provide this.
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>>2861032
I'm already thinking of doing that with Rego since he canonically has Clue Dragon blood..
Giving him 10 levels in Dragon Disciple will give him +4 Bite attacks.
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>>2861048
The inquisitor gets bonus teamwork feats for free in half his archetypes.
Slayer also gets combat style feats as extras, not teamwork ones

And aside from outflank, you really want what? The one for saves, maybe spell pen or shield wall depending on build?
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>>2861118
>Slayer also gets combat style feats as extras, not teamwork ones
That's a misunderstanding of the Slayer Talent.
A Slayer Talent lets you choose Combat trick->Teamwork feat, if you want that instead of Combat style feat.

>And aside from outflank, you really want what?
The second game has expanded feats list compared to the first game, so in the 3rd game who knows how many teamwork feats they will implement.
In the full system there is too many feats, and not enough slots available.
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I'm thinking of giving Jaethal shield-wall team feat, so the can shield-wall with Amiri, whose bastard sword actually is compatible with shield.
You just need to activate a different weapon slot, then you can add shield to it.

But does Solo Tactics apply its advantages to shield wall as well?
For example if I need to temporarily team up Jaethal with another character who does not have shield wall, nor a shield. Does the inquisitor's Solo Tactics still activate the Shield-wall feat?
>>
>>2861321
What? Amiri's Bastard Sword shouldn't be Shield Compatible.
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>>2861483
It is.
Try to activate her 3rd weapon slot.
Then equip shield to 4th weapon slot.
Then activate her 4th weapon slot.

BANG, 2-handed sword + shield.
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Should I turn Jubilost into a melee Alchemist and make him join the Seize the Moment party?
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>>2861503
You could but honestly Jubi is great as he is, a windmill of death and bombs.
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>>2861321
You do not need a teammate to make shield wall work with jaethal.
>>
It's really weird with Slayer Talents.
I can pick almost any of the Teamwork feats through Combat Trick.
But I can't find "Shake it Off" inside Combat Trick. It's arguaby the most important teamwork feat.
>>
>>2861503
no need to, level him as pure Alchemist, keep safe from melee and let him nuke everything with bombs. I gave him pure dps items (e.g. 2x ring that boosts bomb damage) and he out-dps rest of the party
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>>2861584
But her grows wings if I make him a melee alchemist, means he can walk all over the grease spell unaffected.
Plus he gets a bite attack as well.
Plus I can make him almost immune to crits. And immune to cold and paralysis.
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>>2861586
>wings
imagine that grumpy gnome, flying above you and scolding you for your intellectual inferiority
>>
>>2861590
Jubi's Cameo in WOTR is great, he just shit talks all your party members, then reveals he's actually from 100 years in the future and asked Shyka to warp him back in time to interview you.
>>
>>2855678
>because no matter what you choose you end up having to try to menage 6+ units in real time like this a rts but unlike a rts units dont have 1 or 2 abilities
oh no... you're supposed to avoid mentioning this rtwp. otherwise you just out yourself as an idiot with potato reflexes. Mask your incompetence next time, sweety. Use arguments like "tabletop is TB therefore the game should TB". Or "TB mode feels more authentic and """"tactical"""".
>>
>>2862322
>muh apm
this is who bg brought into the genre.
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>>2862356
There is no APM when you have the pause button. You're just too dumb to understand this.

In pen and paper they take turns out of necessity, not because they love waiting 20 minutes doing nothing while the other people around the table is talking.
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>>2862393
Then why mention reflexes or skill?
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>>2862445
You need that when you're dumb enough to play without pause button.
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>>2862393
Actually I much prefer turns because you can do much more intricate shit than rtwp. Also turns shouldn't take crazy long with no interaction. If the party is talking they're talking. If it's just one person taking forever you give them a time limit.
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>>2862461
>If the party is talking they're talking. If it's just one person taking forever you give them a time limit.
Either way the point stands. Nobody enjoys waiting for their turn. That's not why they are playing. It's a relic that's done out of necessity.

>Actually I much prefer turns because
It's because you don't get any advantage from charging an opponent in real time, because the charge/pounce command puts you into a dumb cooldown timer that freeze your character while the enemy is wrecking you.
If there was more OP advantages in real time that's the one you would be playing.
>>
>>2862465
turn-based is controlling rather than herding. it's really just personal preference, you don't have to make up shit about it. tabletop has nothing to do with video games where you control the entire party anyway.
>>
>>2862465
what the fuck are you responding to?
>>
>>2862465
Real time offers easier positioning to get everyoen next to the enemy for instant flanking/outflank shenanigans, makes it easier to have multiple enemies run into the same hole/target same character (rather than having to manipulate initiative/turn order) and lets you easily cancel actions and maneuver characters to get out of effs if necessary.

Though the fact that you describe precise controller as the ruleset intended as 'OP advantages' is pretty telling
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>>2862473
>tabletop has nothing to do with video games where you control the entire party anyway.
That doesn't stop the larian ceo and his shills from using that exact argument for why turn based is better.
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>>2862476
>as the ruleset intended
Intended, due to the necessity of how things work in a conversation.
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>>2862465
I charge all the time in realtime. mostly as a gap closer. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "putting you in a cooldown timer", It just makes you wait for your next 6 second turn to start since it's a full round action. How is that any different from having to wait your next turn to charge in TB?
>>
>>2862490
The fact that you had to freeze for 6 seconds means your charge is no more effecting than stanrd move action + single attack action, and subsequent full attack.
>>
>>2862492
Having it be a full 6 seconds is pretty rare though. It's only the worst case scenario. Most of the time a character will have just finished doing/killing something, you'll see there's like 1-3 seconds or whatever left until the start of his next round, and I'll just queue up a charge and he'll go at it 2 seconds later.
>>
>>2862477
it's arguably better for video games though, because you don't wait as long for your turn.
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>>2862505
But they argue that it's better because it's using in the conversation games. And that argument is bullshit.
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>>2862510
who cares what some tard says? two wrongs don't make a right.
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>>2862511
I care. Because I lost a real time game to a bunch of dumb faggots who likes to do everything turn by turn.
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>>2862512
lol, you lost nothing. not everything has to be for you, and if it's because the name of bg, that's just a label they can slap anywhere, it means nothing.
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>>2862523
Yeah fuck you too.
>>
>>2862524
well, you'll keep getting manipulated by branding if you can't let go and realize these things are transferable and meaningless, anon.
>>
>>2862492
You don't even know the ruleset you're complaining about.
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>>2862492
I tend to agree about charge, however:
>this game is LONG if you do everything and I mean LONG and that's WITH RWTP
>RWTP makes the game more about the strength and resource longevity of your party build than moment to moment tactics

I barely buff anymore, it's just blur and mirror for the MC and a haste if the fight is "hard". MT endless burning arc and controlled fireball tristian, bomber jub, and bloodhunter ekun absolutely destroy everything that was somehow missed by rake/archae/ad mc, invuln barb amiri, and warpriest jaethal. Everything just drops dead now and I never rest unless I need a worldspeed buff.

In turn based this game would take eons to do all the content. I have nothing against turn based itself, and this particular turn based mode is a good one which I liked, and used early on to tactic my way out of harder fights when I knew slightly less about build abuse. We have just arrived at the point in which the scope of modern content completely outpaces turn based modes at this point. It's another reason I prefer ARPGs, if they're not going to build AI that can match the complexity of the build systems to make RWTP more interesting that is.
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>>2862492
Oh, the other point about charge in RWTP is it allows me to micromanage less is the real value, even with the janky engine delay since they'll charge to new targets after the old one splatters. Mostly prefer to just run the MC and swap MT to the next fireball rack is about the most effort I put forth on micro now.
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>>2862596
>scope of modern content completely outpaces turn based modes at this point
i've heard this sentiment so many times over the years, people who take their tastes and posit them as some kind of evolutionary inevitability
>>
>>2857683
shit taste
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>>2860248
>I finished WotR before this
I finished WotR 4 times now. Still never made it passed chapter 3 in Kingmaker.
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>>2862596
If you use a extend metamagic rod you can pretty much cast one Haste as you enter areas and the just clear them out under the influence of that single buff once you get some levels under your belt.

There's also no other good use for extend and you end up with 2-3 of them just from loot anyway...
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>>2862596
People that play RPGs were very angry that Pathfinder was not turn based, which was why the mode was added in the first place. You are not using half of 3.5e mechanics in this game because they don't work well in rtwp. The encounters are designed around rtwp, haste mauling in a game design issue because it is rtwp first and foremost.
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Just did this event with Linzi being one of the targets. Fortunately turn-based mode is legitimately broken and was able to just kite the soul eater to death by vanishing over and over.
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>>2863779
Forgot pic.
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>>2855662

Except that Baldur's Gate 3 is using shit edition D&D and has no real relationship with the original Baldur's Gate games in either narrative or gameplay. And it's created by Larien, who were responsible for producing the rotten feces which was DOS2...

Meanwhile, Kingmaker is an actually interesting story with actually interesting companions who each experience a distinctly unique and fully-fleshed character development. Kingmaker also has robust mod support and far more content in it than BG3 will ever have... if it ever actually launches. And then of course there's the elephant in the room that Pathfinder 1e is objectively the superior mechanical system, and Kingmaker actually implements the tabletop rules almost exactly perfectly.
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>>2863802
>Kingmaker actually implements the tabletop rules almost exactly perfectly
Lets not get carried away.
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>>2855694

Tabletop games don't have an innate difficulty since difficulty is only meaningful when compared against the ability of the players.

In a tabletop environment, players have a huge huge huge backlog of material to pull mechanics from, and most GMs only exercise very limited oversight. Which means that players acting in bad faith can "optimize" their builds to intentionally break the game since most GMs simply do not want to have to make running the game a full-time job in order to balance it.

In a cRPG, players' build options are hard-defined from the get-go, and everything can therefore be balanced against completely-known player performance range.

The thing about Pathfinder as a ruleset is that "stat inflation" is just not how monsters are made dangerous. It just isn't.

In Kingmaker, since it's an open-world story, you can sometimes wander into areas that you might theoretically be able to optimize a party to deal with but which is actually populated by challenges you should wait to confront until later if you aren't crazy optimized and already aware of what lies in wait there. This isn't "stat inflation". It's you encountering an optional level of challenge earlier than you otherwise "should" if you waited instead.

Even sticking to the strictly level-appropriate encounters, you can get TPK'd if you don't know what you're doing by the time you get there (which you should, since the first few commonly deadly encounters aren't until like level 5 - 6). If the party isn't wiped, though, Raise Dead scrolls are expensive at early levels but not unavailable. What makes those specific encounters deadly is not stat inflation, it's the fact that they're surprises and you might not be prepared to deal with those specific mechanics at that moment.
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>>2855859

You can literally just turn Kingdom Management off in the settings and never have to do it....

It's always been like that.
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>>2855911

They are a crutch for bad play.

The truth is, there's only like two multiclass builds which have even any debate about whether they're worth doing. For all others, Pathfinder effectively removed multiclassing from play.
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>>2856014

MT is not good on paper or otherwise. It has literally been thoroughly understood as a noob trap option for more than twenty years at this point.

And when I say noob trap, I mean to say that it's been proven to be worse than not even bringing that character along for an adventure. Not, like, people don't like it. I mean that it has been PROVEN.

Your GM has to go out of their to customize encounters and make up homebrew stuff just for the sake of the MT to not ruin the party. And there is none of that in a computer game.
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>>2863817
So there's no set statistics for monsters? I've heard many people say that monsters in these cRPGs have stats well above what they would in a tabletop campaign. Personally, I find the game of middling difficulty because I maintain preparedness, scout ahead, and don't bash my head against walls. But if this is what people complain about who play the tabletop, then that shit must be really easy or they are just bad at rpgs.
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>>2856124

What kind of fucking moron uses Sorcerer to enter Mystic Theurge...?!

What the actual FUCK.

People need to shut the fuck up and not talk about things when they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

Also, this isn't the tabletop. There's only like two level 9 spells that might be worth the action economy to cast. There isn't any kind of open-ended use for Wish or possibility of negotiating with a Gated demon or anything like that. It's the open-ended narrative-affecting spells that made level 9s important in tabletop. In this game they're just kind of ... shitty, honestly.
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>>2856506

"Viable" is mmoshit style language and is a concept you need to kill yourself for believing in.
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>>2863840
>>What kind of fucking moron uses Sorcerer to enter Mystic Theurge...?!
There are several advantages of doing this.
The wizards archpetypes in this game don't use Wisdom to cast their spells, and most of the sorcerers don't either.
But the Empyreal Sorcerer DOES use Wisdom, just like the cleric does. And so this will give you a ton of benefits when you want to bypass the opponent's saving throws.

>People need to shut the fuck up and not talk about things when they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.
Secondly, all of your cleric's level 1, 2 3, 4, 5 spells all become converted to Sorcerer spontaneous spell pool. Which is a HUUUUGE advantage over any shitty wizard.

>Also, this isn't the tabletop
Anon just stop pretending you ar ean expert at this game, or even an expert on table top.
You clearly don't know many things about thus system, you probably never even played the game.
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>>2863834

Whatever is published in the bestiary doesn't matter because the GM decides which monsters to put in front of you. It doesn't matter if a Shadow is CR 2 if the GM feels like putting twenty of them in a room or just using a CR 11 Lich instead.

There's also a lot of environmental context that can't be captured by a bestiary's Challenge Rating. Like if you have to fight those twenty Shadows while in pitch black supernatural darkness and all your party members are deafened so they can't hear each other screaming and you have a 20% chance to fail your spellcasting if it requires a verbal component. And it's raining men and the floor is lava or whatever.

Challenge Rating and statblocks and all of that were only ever guidelines to help GMs estimate things. There never was and can never be an actual system to define everything perfectly in a tabletop setting. That's the entire point of it being a tabletop game.
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>>2863849

Go back to 2003 with that shitty image macro.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you just doubled down on it to prove it even harder.

Hint: you contradict yourself when you bitch and moan about losing level 9s and then you try to justify doing the exact thing that made you lose those level 9s in the first place.

Fucking moron. Fucking MORON. Just wow. Go outside. Get some self-awareness. Read a book.

Maybe even the basic rulebook, if you're feeling like a big kid and you want to move on from Harry Potter.
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>>2863855
You just got raped Anon. It's time to move on to a new thread.
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>>2863857

Fantasizing about raping me is the closest you'll ever come to breeding, and I don't even have a vagina. But your attraction is appreciated.

Please tell us all again how you are so desperate to move everything to Wisdom in order to save ability score points to buy....??? What exactly are you buying with those points that you saved by not raising Intelligence? Because it certainly isn't skill points.

And on a character whose sole purpose is having all the possible spells, casting buffs and healing people, it's strange that you're desperate to limit their range and progression of spells known by using Sorcerer.

Please tell us all how it's so superior and yet so terrible to use Sorcerer and lose your level 9s because you are so bad at the game that you can't make any decisions about what spells to prepare on a buffbot?

Another hint: higher level spells have better save DCs, too. Good luck using your level 1 Grease when you're at character level 7, though.
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>>2863868
>What exactly are you buying with those points that you saved by not raising Intelligence?
Every +2 points into wisdom is +1 DC to the sorcerer spells + cleric spells

>And on a character whose sole purpose is having all the possible spells, casting buffs and healing people
And they will still have that. Those who already played these games know what spells they like. And the bonus of converting most of your cleric spells into the spontaneous casting pool frees up thecleric spell slots so you only ever have to pick the few cleric spells that are the most powerful. The rest of the cleric spells go into the sorcerer spell pool with sorcerer's DC.

>Please tell us all how it's so superior
I already did.

>Another hint: higher level spells have better save DCs, too
I have level 8 spell slots, and much superior attribute score, so I will always win against whatever crippled Mystic Theurge you dreamt up.
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>>2863875

... I'm gonna try to use small words for you.

If you want to cast offensive crowd control spells, Mystic Theurge is the specific, exactly incorrect thing to do for that.

Raising your save DCs is not important for a buff bot. It just isn't. And if it were even possible to get maximized save DCs on such a character, that would be wildly imbalanced and should be immediately nerfed to make it impossible.

As it happens, it's still possible to get the same save DCs as a single-classed character in whichever spellcasting class you want to prioritize since you can choose where to put your bumps from leveling up. And you can start with 18s in both Int and Wis. Wis is a terrible stat to choose because it otherwise only affects your Will save (which is already crazy high from your classes) and specific skills (which you're already crazy good at because they're class skills). In other words, choosing to give up skills when you don't have to is stupid. Saving those ability score points to buy Strength or what the fuck ever is extra stupid because you're a Mystic Theurge and your entire character concept is that you do literally nothing but casting spells.

Sorcerers can't know all the spells they will need to know if they want to be buff bots. Wizards can. And Wizards get those spells sooner. Which makes an extra difference for Mystic Theurge which is already delayed. And if you're concerned about accessing level 9s, you should be extra concerned because Mass Heal is level 9 and is the only level 9 spell in the game that has any theoretical use (if you don't want to buy scrolls). And you don't need maxed Wis to cast Mass Heal. Clerics do not have any useful crowd control spells other than Sound Burst which isn't useful past level 6 anyway. For the record though, Sound Burst is more powerful than any other spell in the arcane repertoire until you get Slow at SL3 or Confusion at SL4 depending on the monster you're fighting.
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>>2863883
>If you want to cast offensive crowd control spells, Mystic Theurge is the specific, exactly incorrect thing to do for that.
Nah, the crowd control spell just needs to be good enough, it doesn't have to be top peak super +50 DC.
That's why you're so wrong and gay.

You lost, and you're too embarrassed to post your own Mystic Theurge build because you know everybody would laugh at you.
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>>2863875

Furthermore, you do not have a superior attribute score. You just wasted potential. You would end up with exactly the same Wisdom as a Wiz/Clr would end up with Int because you can't just arbitrarily raise your scores in the beginning. You can't buy above 18. And you can afford to raise two to 18. So you should choose to have both Int and Wis, not just Wis.

You don't "win" anything because you end up missing the most powerful spell level (according to you), and you get access to all of your spells slower, which means you're automatically inferior in ALL of the use cases you intended to create this MT for.

And in exchange the only thing you could even theoretically have gained is not needing to choose which spells you prepare. Which comes at the expense of only being able to know two or three of a given level - AND NOT BEING ABLE TO CHANGE THOSE.

And just for the record, you absolutely will have to change those in order to function as a support character since the demands of encounters will change many times during the game.

Sorcerer cannot function in this game as a support character. No. It isn't possible. Period.

And no, just because you have this weird obsession with Sorcerer doesn't mean you're valid. It's not a competition. This isn't a competition. You're just fucking wrong.

Go deal with it into that nasty sock under your bed with the lipstick on it.
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>>2863887

No one here is worried about impressing anyone ... except you. You're desperate to make this into some kind of competition with that hilarious kindergarten "I dare you" bullshit.

And you can't even stick to a point.

First you want to insist that you have to maximize your save DCs and now you're saying maximizing DCs doesn't matter at all.

And apparently you aren't developed enough to understand that you're not getting away with any of it. No one is fooled. We're not bamboozled by the clever crafty switcheroo. Shut the fuck up, kid. You're up past your bedtime.
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>>2863893
>And you can afford to raise two to 18
18 will always be inferior to 20.
Plus your two 18 attributes will hurt other things like constritution, dex, str, etc.

Your mystic theurge is a loser, Anon. Just like you.
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>>2863898
>now you're saying maximizing DCs doesn't matter at all.
Maximising DC was never the priority of the mytic theurge. Their DC just have to be good enough.
And mine is better "good enough" than yours are.
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>>2863899

You can't reach 20 at character creation. No one can.

Whatever racial modifier you add will go on top of that 18.

In other words, starting at 18 is the best you can hope for no matter what anyway - and if you'd ever played the game, you'd know that.

But sure, try to call everyone a loser. We've never even heard of projection so we don't know how to interpret your emotional breakdown after you've realized that you're shitty at your favorite autistic obsession.
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>>2863901

No it isn't. Yours is exactly the same but you've paid a hundred skill points for it, whereas I haven't.

And if you had ever played the game, you would have immediately recognized that.

You've never played the game. And now we all know. You've maybe read some shitty idiot's guide, but you don't even know what you're talking about because they didn't know what they're talking about.
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>>2863910
>>You can't reach 20 at character creation
I already did.
And at level 20 I will have 25 Wisdom, which is +7 to the DC. Plus all of the items that boost my Wisdom.

Meanwhile you will have 21 Int and 20 Wis when you are character level 20.You're at -2 DC compared to me at both disciplines.
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>>2863914
>m-m-muh skill points
That's not the priority of the Mystic Theurge. Spellcasting is the priority.

Skill points can easily be covered by the other 5 characters.
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>>2863917

You already didn't. You just tried to lie and then you got caught in the lie and now you're trying to pretend that what I said is what you meant all along, except that it would undermine your original point... so you're trying to distract from that with a feigned posture of superiority.

Which isn't working, because adults have an attention span sufficient to have kept track of the conversational context.

Then you go on to make assumptions about how I'm supposed to build because you don't like the fact that the cleric spell list isn't used for offense... which is why it's the cleric spell list, not the arcane spell list.

You don't waste points in Wisdom when you make a Wiz/Clr MT, that's fucking stupid - which is why you assumed it's how to do it.

You start with 18s in both, put them into Int during leveling. You have complete control over your choice of race, so your racial goes to Int, too. You end up with the same save DCs... but you also end up with spell level 9 and you've had access to higher level spells all throughout your game. And a wider selection of spells, too.

All you've done is exhaustively demonstrate that you've had no idea what's going on here all along.

I don't find it amusing. It's just painful to watch you. You're dismissed. You may go spread misinformation and whatever somewhere else.
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>>2863921

Being able to buy those skills doesn't cost you spellcasting if you make the right choice.

Which you clearly don't understand.

And saying "it can be done by others" is a fucking stupid failure of an argument to attempt.

Anything can be done by other characters. Why fucking bother making a Mystic Theurge? You could just make a single class caster and let the other five characters cover the other spell list.

Fucking idiot.
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>>2863931
It's over Anon, you picked an argument you were always going to lose.
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>>2863934
>if you make the right choice.
The right choice is the one that let me have +7 to my sorcerer DC and Cleric DC at character level 16.
That's why I win wile you just have an inferior mystic theurge with some overlapping skills which your other characters already have.
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Frens shouldn't fight. Frens should hug.
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>>2863939
The dum cat eventually realised it's been tricked into cleaning the fur of its food.
Hahahhaha, what a dumb cat.
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>>2863939
How about you fuck off nigger
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>>2863945
Don't be rude.
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>>2863945
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>>2863945
>>2863949
lol
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Anons, is it mandatory to choose a scimitar as a magus weapon due to the 18-20 crit range? There are so many more nice longswords in this game, yet everywhere I look I see everyone recommending the scimitar.

Is it that much of a difference wielding a scimitar compared to any other one-armed weapon as a Magus?
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>>2864386
Recommendations for weps, classes, dips, etc... come from unfair dick measuring fags. If your playing on core like a Chad should you can literally choose whatever weapon you desire and have fun.
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>>2864399
As long as you don't want to play anything that focuses on a Rapier. The +4 one from the shop is the best you'll ever find, so avoid rapiers. You'll be fine with any other weapon though.
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>>2864386
no, magus is the retard class. just equip whatever 1h does the most damage
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>>2864386
I specialized in the great axe and I crit on 17. Get the keen weapon enhancement ability as a magus and the vanquisher great axe
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>>2864386
im using an elven curve sword beacuse fuck it, i want my katana.
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>>2864386
Scimitar and rapier perform pretty much the same. Fauchard is ridiculous if you don't care about spell combat.



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