[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/vrpg/ - Video Games/RPG


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




File: 1637939595530.jpg (635 KB, 1919x1080)
635 KB
635 KB JPG
Are action rpgs the future of rpg genre?
the graphics are just so much better then the other genres, and action is just way more tight and risk of death is bigger because you have to dodge, step back to avoid stuff etc.

How can the other genres even compete?
>>
>are action rpgs the future of rpgs?
>traditional WRPGs have been on a tear for the last half decade
>>
animations and frame times limit rpgs. just becomes a boring puzzle.
>>
File: l2b-5.gif (17 KB, 320x224)
17 KB
17 KB GIF
They're just action games with upgrades, not RPGs since it is very reliant on player skill rather than character skill. Most of the time I find action "RPGs" as bloated experiences compared to better action based games.
>>
>>2784867
>not RPGs since it is very reliant on player skill rather than character skill
RPGs rely on player skills all the same. You just need to plan your build and then perform the optimal choices without time constraints in the tactical layer.

ARPGs just add the hard time constraints and other skills to the mix, while often somewhat reducing the build/tactical opportunities. You can build your character and make tactical long term choices all the same in Nioh as you do in Baldur's Gate. In the end a classical RPG is just a glorified wargame with added character building and extra narration. It doesn't make much difference if instead base the core gameplay on some other genre.
>>
>>2785109
>RPGs rely on player skills all the same.
No.
>You can build your character and make tactical long term choices all the same in Nioh as you do in Baldur's Gate.
Absolutely not, stop posting before you get demolished.
>>
They're the future insofar as "soulslikes" are the only games that do real time combat well (although given the abysmal state of elden "spam ashes" ring, maybe not).

Turn based combats with a higher emphasis on character skill or player ingenuity instead of reflex are always going to be a richer experience. Ironically it's the lower pace and higher impact of every single action that gives gravitas. This is also true of rtwp and why POE combat feels dumb and shit compared to BG combat despite both being rtwp and Poe actually having massive improvements on paper.

It's much less interesting to me what type of combat system an rpg uses as opposed to how well they've implemented opportunity for roleplaying. If an rpg forces a non warrior character to engage in enemy clearing via direct combat, for example, it's a bad RPG period (but may in fact still be an absolute banger of a game - like DkS)
>>
DARK
SOULS!
remastered
>>
>>2784675
Yes you are 100% correct, I realized this somewhere between Castlevania: SoTN and Dragon's Dogma.
They're more immersive and can achieve not only the tactical build complexity of CRPGs, it can be put with player skill in such a way as to where your stats aren't playing for you but accentuate playstyles you're into.

This is the real sweet spot of the genre. The current soulslike glut trend is just brain dead companies following trends as usual, buoyed by the usual masochists and people trying to farm tube audiences.
Once they catch up to the depth of CRPG we'll really see some better games.
Titles like Valheim and V Rising are already exploring this space.
>>
>>2784675
Is Monster Hunter JRPG? Who is cuter onahole, Type 2 owlhead on back or Palico?
>>
>>2785332
Rathalos.
>>
>>2785360
More like Rathian(Lioleia).
>>
>>2784675
Pretty much.
>>
>>2785123
>0 argument
You can break Nioh pretty easily to the point you just button mash through the action portion of the fight. Not exploring build options and strategies to deal damage against enemies will result in a miserable experience in NG+.
>>
>>2785678
You literally do not understand what an RPG is, like most people around.
ARPGs will never be roleplaying games, bigger damage numbers that invalidatae the action part doesn't make them RPGs, it makes them bad action games.
Your "builds" in Nioh are all about how much damage you do and how lazy you can get with your inputs, none of this is roleplaying, ARPGs break the single, most fundamental rule of roleplaying by design so they'll never classify as roleplaying games, and only as action games for the mentally impaired.
>>
>>2785687
Do you ever wonder why the term ARPG was coined? It was because it was natural and even sub 100 IQ people could somehow realize that there is something that's left when you subtract the wargame part from the classic RPGs and then add it onto action game.
>it makes them bad action games.
It's not even the opinion of people who actually play both ARPGs and pure action games. Both Nioh games are great action games.
> most fundamental rule of roleplaying by design so they'll never classify as roleplaying game
Separation of player and character was never a hard rule because even in the barest pen and paper RPG you have to make player inputs, and stats like Int and Wis are nearly 100% played by the player who makes the decision, besides their super mechanical role as some caster power scaling attribute (which is the exact same thing as an action game having a dex stat and it not governing how fast your character reacts to enemy attacks, but how much damage you deal with a Katana).
>>
>>2785720
>Do you ever wonder why the term ARPG was coined?
To sell a product to people.
>Separation of player and character was never a hard rule
It was purely by nature of the genre, because in TTRPG you can't do things like dodge or react to traps or enemies in real time, your player inputs are choosing an abstract behaviour and roll a dice to see if the character you're playing as succeeds or not.
None of this is present in ARPGs, there's no need to get into the age old dilemma of player INT vs character INT, that is already a superfluous topic because ARPGs invalidates roleplaying at a core level.
Action based gameplay and actual role playing are fundamentally incompatible, and even the simple lable of ARPG is completely nonsensical because nearly every single action game ever made can technically be classified as an ARPG, even fighting games or things like Gran Turismo, and when everything is an ARPG nothing is.
>>
>>2784675
>ADHD attention spam zoomers are killing turn-based rpgs
Based zoomers. Fuck that boring ass shit. We just need to get rid of textwall rpgs now.
>>
>>2785736
>To sell a product to people.
Yes exactly. They though ARPG would be a good moniker that wouldn't cause confusion in what the game is and signal who are the target groups. It worked.
>an abstract behaviour and roll a dice to see if the character you're playing as succeeds or not.
There is not just abstract behavior, but different levels of abstraction and one you're choosing to die on. Even between RPGs there is difference in how much abstraction in basic actions like attacking an enemy. Even pure action games operate on an abstraction level where you just press the direction in which to go instead of having control over what kind of footwork you use to get there and how well you execute the steps.
> even the simple lable of ARPG is completely nonsensical because nearly every single action game ever made can technically be classified as an ARPG,
Just as technically as any RtwP system can be classified as an action game or timed chess as Devil May Cry.
>>
>>2785720
>Do you ever wonder why the term ARPG was coined?

ACKSHULLY, they coined it to denote Diablo clones and other hack and slash looters.

no, i have no idea why, when were far better examples at the time. still one of the gayest marketing genre names ever conceived. nioh's cool though and i agree otherwise
>>
>>2785742
>and signal who are the target groups
Yes, people who don't like or want RPGs, that is
>Even between RPGs there is difference in how much abstraction in basic actions like attacking an enemy.
No, there's different rulings in terms of what certain actions can entail, but the core mechanics are identical, you get a turn in an abstract timeline of events and roll a dice to see how your action translates into the game world, no mechanical input needed because again, you're not supposed to be your character, which is what happens in ARPGs.
>instead of having control
The degree of control is what matters here and action based games already have too much.
Which is also why your example of RTwP games is half wrong and half right.
RTwP does operate in pseudo real time but still has specific mechanics under the hood that adhere to actual RPG rules, you can make a similar argument for games that involve real time gimmicks like Shadow Hearts, because again, what matters is not merely the nature of control but the degree of control you have over things, the more control the player has over a character's action the less roleplaying you actually have.
You can make the argument that BG or any RTwP game isn't a good RPG because you can kind of break it by microing, and I'd agree with that, RTwP is a bad system that was also made for casuals instead of actual RPG players.
And this isn't a thing that is only relevant for combat, it is a massive problem for every mechanic, Gothic's a great example of that, in those games you have a Lockpicking stat you can invest points into, but lockpicking as an action is completely player driven and detached from the character, you just need to now the sequence of left-right movement you need to open a chest, lockpicking only effectively decreases the chances of a lockpick breaking, which is why nobody ever invests in that, also because lockpicks are pretty much infinite and easily available.
>>
>>2785755
>Yes, people who don't like or want RPGs, that is
Which is why there is no backlash when the RPG tag is yet again put on a game like Nioh2?
>you get a turn in an abstract timeline of events and roll a dice to see how your action translates into the game world,
You don't always use RNG, there are plenty of actions that are completely detached from any RNG mechanics or sometimes even player character skills. Otherwise you are just describing a strategy game. A strategy game also has some abstract statistics that can denote to-hit chance, defense etc.

Like holy fuck half the problem of your definition is that the real reason why Nioh isn't an RPG is because it's not a strategy game. For you basically an RPG must be a subset of strategy (or tactics) game and preferably turn based only. The entire genius of calling Nioh 2 an RPG is because any troglodyte on steam can put tags:
>Action
>RPG
together and get exactly something where there are characters, character building, probably an inventory, some story, some nonlinearity and be happy. On the other hand if you just want an RPG that's a turn based strategy at its core you put down:
>Turn based
>RPG
and get exactly the things I described above, but instead the core of the gameplay is that of a turn based game.
>>
there's never any scale with action rpg labels, you can't tell how much of the game is action and how much is rpg elements. labels are completely pointless, a vid clip when you have familiarity with your tastes is way better.
>>
>>2784675
Turn based = Press a to win.
Currently trying out tactical rpgs, so far it's been "press a to win" with a few more steps.
>>
>the graphics are so much better

I-IS IT THE GWAFIX??
IT'S THE G-GWAFIX FOR ME
>>
>>2785768
>Which is why there is no backlash
There is backlash, just because 90% of people doesn't care about RPGs doesn't mean there isn't.
>You don't always use RNG
But you still use stats, not reflexes and real time inputs, which is the whole issue here.
>an RPG must be a subset of strategy (or tactics) game and preferably turn based only.
Indeed, that is what RPGs are, everything else isn't an RPG.
>The entire genius of calling Nioh 2 an RPG is because any troglodyte on steam can put tags:
Yes, that's part of the problem and why letting clueless idiots decide things is a mistake, the only genius is in the marketing side that manages to convince people that they're playing an RPG when they're not.
Though honestly mass delusion and psyops are not all rare, especially nowadays.
>>
>>2785781
It's fine to think an RPG must be a subset of strategy games, but don't be surprised when most disagree and taxonomists get a heart attack when the same shit is called two different things based on shoddy logic.
>>
how did "RPG" become something people care about labeling their game as anyway? we all know people will argue incessantly in order to label their beloved game an rpg. but why do they?
>>
File: 1655342586154.jpg (54 KB, 419x610)
54 KB
54 KB JPG
>>2785785
Thing is taxonomy is a scientifical method, you can disagree with it but that doesn't mean you're right, it only means you're a clueless imbecile full of yourself.
Just because a bear and a lion have fur, walk on all fours and eat other animals doesn't mean they're part of the same family.
Just because raccoons are called washing bears in some language doesn't mean they're part of the same family as bears and viceversa, conversely a raccoon dog is not the same family as actual raccoons even though they're called like that.
Same goes for plants, a Jerusalem Artichoke is a tuber, not a thistle, despite what the anglosphere says since other languages do not call it an artichoke, and it has nothing to do with Jerusalem either since it's a tuber endemic to South America that was imported by travelers some four hundred years ago.

And Same goes for this topic, just because the industry wants to make money out of people and sells you one thing while calling it something else it doesn't mean they're right, it only means you're a gullible cretin who falls for meaningless buzzwords and surface level sophistry.
So I summon Hegel in attack position and end my turn.



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.