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>>2775390
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also:
Trails
FFX-2
FFXIII-2
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>>2775390
What game is pic anon?
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>>2775398
That's Radiant Historia.
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>>2775391
kh2 has to be the most overrated game of all time. what youtuber called it the best arpg?
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>>2775393
The mechanics were brilliant but the game turned into Magic spam for me because of grinding magic levels so I can unlock more fusion skills which was really exhausting
>>
Arise has a great one. Everything flows well and finishers are quick and flashy.
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SaGa: Scarlet Grace - Ambitions really is the best combat system of all time. The whole game is just preparation for the final boss, which is like a final exam to see just how well you understand. What a masterpiece.
>>
>>2775427
You’re not wrong, but prepare for the kvetching from Talesfags
>>
Lunar 2 and Grandia
SMT Nocturne, DDS, IV, and V
FFX and FFXIII
Super Mario RPG, Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, Legend of Dragoon
Trails series
>>
>>2775390
Kind of amazing how Mitsuru Hirata went from directing Radiant Historia, to just making trash afterwards with Strange Journey, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, and Soul Hackers 2.
>>
>>2775426
Yeah. Trails fixed that with the quartz system but ruined it when they removed the Action bar.
>>
>>2775390
>3DS remake
No
>>
>>2775453
I've never heard anyone call Strange Journey trash before. Usually it's considered one of the best SMT games.
>>
>>2775465
Shutup.
>>
>>2775453
Kind of how you consider reddit the game good but not kino like strange journey.
>>
>>2775390
Battle systems like this are always fun at first but eventually without fail end up becoming tedious and just more effort than they're worth.
>>
>>2775447
>The whole game is just preparation for the final boss, which is like a final exam to see just how well you understand.
>get to firebringer
>get outsped
>get stunlocked
>die
OR
>have two chars cover turn 1
>scrape by
>phase 2
>die
i did not understand
>>
>>2775453
>shitting on strange journey
based, that game's battle system sucks fucking shit.
>>
>>2775534
TMS#FE took it and made it better but it's still shit there too
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>>2775422
It's not.
>>
>>
>>2775582
YOUR SPINNING ED-
YOUR SPINNING -
YOUR SPINN-
ANCHOR SH-
YOUR SPINNING
Let's do it Rex
>>
>>2775427
I enjoyed this game but I'm not really a JRPGfag so my opinion is probably the opposite of what everyone else on this board thinks.

The big problem with the combat system is that while you CAN spend a lot of time getting gud and trying to be super efficient by chaining your combos, you can also just button mash and get through the game that way.
>>
>>2775506
It's story and map design is kino, but its battle system is just terrible, it really seems like they threw in things they thought were good without thinking about how it would come together or feel after the first few hours.
>>
>>2775447
A real example of elegant design. They removed MP and items making for a combat system less about attrition and more about doing cool shit.
>>
>>2775447
can confirm I didn't really know what I was doing and the last boss wasted me instantly.
>>
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>>2775582
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>>2775665
I know this is purposely taking the piss, but it's really not so far off. Whatever just happened to clean and straightforward. Something nice and functional. It's just noise and reflex shit at this point.
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>>2775665
W-What happens when the Fingerless Glove meter fills?
>>
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>>2775532
There's generally two ways to go about in phase 1.
Have somebody REALLY fast outspeed Firebringer and stun him with a weapon tech before he fires off the benisons, but you need somebody who's actually fast, as in 12-13 AGI base or more, with speed boosting roles and AGI bonuses, this is the most efficient way to deal with him.
Have three meatshields and either two casters with maxed out Thunderbringer or two axe users with maxed out Unbridled Frenzy and hope you can burst him down before he wipes you out, you also need to have Kada's benison.
There's also a third option, which is having a really specific axe build for a single character where you spam Unbridled Frenzy over and over again and hope Firebringer doesn't proc confusion/paralysis with a benison and wipes you out, but you also need to grind like hell for this, and Kada's benison.

Phase 2 is similar to phase 1 but it's basically minesweeper, if you have a really good stunner chances are you can also bypass this phase by stunning him a couple of time before he sets the servants and burst him down as he's still relatively weak to stun here, but it's a gamble.
Otherwise it's about understanding who's the actual threat, either Firebringer himself or the Servants, the gimmick is that in this battle the Servants have Echo commands which repeat the last action in the timeline before their turn, which means if you do not pay attention to the threat source and target the wrong enemy chances are you kill yourself because the servants will copy your shit and use it against you.

Last phase is a DPS brawl, Firebringer hits the hardest here and has access to broken shit like Fire Blaster or worse, Vermilion Sands and worst of all, Galaxy, which means if he gets to cast two of these in a row and you don't have any answer you're dead, he also gets two Laevateinn that can harass you but at this point you should know enough about the system that they're actually advantageous to you.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGmj4KqMuGw
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Trails broke me. It is my favourite turn-based system I have ever tried and nothing can just scratch the itch.
>>
>>2775422
KH2FM is actually one of the GOATs despite all the obnoxious fanboys and that one schizo shitposting about it in DMC threads on /v/.
>>
>>2775390
Live a live. It has Fart(Pogo,Gori) and poop throwing(Gori). Pic not so related.
>>
>>
>>2776106
The people will hate you, but more than anything they will hate that you are right.
>>
>>2775447
The battle mechanics are amazing in Scarlet Grace.
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>>2775390
>press turn
>one more time
>the action rpg gameplay in the Raidou games
Megami Tensei games usually have the best in my opinion.
>>
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>>2776106
Based.
>>
>>2775390
>turn-based
anon I..
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>>2775466
It is one of the better ones, I dont know why people get so contrarian over it
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>>2776730
>>2776106
>>2775393
>X-2, XIII-2 (and LR even more so). VIIR
>All sequels generally agreed to be the peak of gameplay of the FF franchise
>All sequels with very divisive opinions about plot quality and character development
It's funny how SqEx did this so frequently but only with FF, every other game on this thread plot is considered between "meh" to "quite good", never "bad"
>>
>>2776780
I actually like that about Square. I appreciate that, even with their flagship AAA franchise they dramatically change each game to the next. I don't like then all, but it's a pretty ballsy move on their part.
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Without a doubt.
IDGAF what you think about the rest of the game, there isn't a single other JRPG with a combat system that's as engaging or as fun as the one in X-2
>>
>>2776818
>t. guy who's played 3 games
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>>2775390
>>
>>2776818
It sucks that they never did a main title with this fast paced ATB system. It deserved more than just being shoved into a fanservice sequel.
>>
>>2776912
You are free to contribute as well.
>>
>>2776912
Don't be retarded. It's because CRPGs are much less likely to have combat that features gimmicks/odd mechanics. I say this as a fan of both types of games. While there are certainly gimmicky/odd CRPG combat systems, most CRPG devs will use a turn based or real time with pause or whatever and focus on designing the party building elements/spells/skills.
Both types of combat are good but one is more likely to stand out in your mind when posting in a thread like this.
>>
>>2776091
Which one is this? Which one I should start with?
>>
>>2777109
There are 9 officially translated instalments of Trails/Kiseki games, picrel is the 10th which has a fan translation, Hajimari no Kiseki.
Chronologically, there are 3 arcs.
Trails in the Sky FC, Trails in the Sky SC and Trails in the Sky the 3rd are the first arc.
Afterwards, there are Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure, this is the second arc.
The third arc consists of Trails of the Cold Steel 1,2,3 and 4. After that comes Hajimari which closes the arc and starts the next one, Kuro no Kiseki or Trails in the Dark.

The best way to start the series is with Sky FC and go chronologically but if you don't enjoy that game, try out Cold Steel. If you like it, finish CS 1 and 2 but after that get back to Sky and play chronologically from that. Keep in mind that these games are slow burners, Sky FC is especially slow.

Now about the gameplay. While the Sky trilogy has a decent battle system, future games are considerably better, at least in my opinion. In that regard, Hajimari is my favourite, partially because it gives the most options to play with.
>>
I think FF10 is up there, at least before you are able to break the game wide open with the sphere system.
>>
>>2776730
Maybe it's just because I'm getting old but I'm getting real sick of all these loud flashy systems and just prefer a nice simple "niggas in a row taking turns socking each other." Stuff like FF13 and it's sequels are just noise to me. It gives me a headache.
>>
In terms of ARPGs, shout out to Star Ocean 3. Best is probably KH2 though.


Psuedo-ATBs has to be FFX but I'm also a fan of the old Grandia system.
I love XIII-2 but it doesn't belong near a best battle system conversation.

Pure ATB? Dunno m9s, >opinions

Never played a Suikoden or Xeno yet. One day
>>
>>2776818
Truly kino battle system stuck in a shit plot
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>>2775427
Goddamn Arise was a great game, I need to replay it
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>>2775447
>SaGa: Scarlet Grace - Ambitions
I hope they revisit the battle system again, but with a bigger budget. The game suffers heavily from the small number of enemy types.
>>
>>2775391
>Mash X to win
>Mash triangle to win QTEs
I mean it was fun but it was hardly deep or challenging, even the combat in the first game was better
>inb4 muh meme challenge run

>>2775393
Trails has the most blatantly generic battle system you can imagine, you can't say it has one of the "best" battle systems without saying by implication that every turn based combat ever is the best.
>>
>>2777168
The Suikoden combat systems are basically just Dragon Quest but you get 6 characters, they're not that exciting
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>>2777232
>Mash X to win
>Mash triangle to win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNFWBWcZHIQ
Why lie? Also they aren't QTEs.

>deep or challenging
Good thing it's both.
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>>2775390
>Get six people in a squad so you don't have to pick-and-choose as much
>Stand-in-a-line format but everyone attacks at once making it feel like an actual fight and keeps a brisk pace
>108 different characters so you get variety
>Bunch of combo attacks between random characters (like the three harlots teaming up to seduce enemies) giving personality to less popular fighters
Too bad the later Suikodens were iffy. Suikoden II nailed it.
>>
>>2775390
i hated this games combat system arguably the worst one in a jrpg.
>>
>>2775447
I don't know how to play this game and I get BTFO
>>
>>2775427
It's enjoyable and smooth but I wish theyd go back to base arcane and altered artes. It feels too button mashy just being able to combo any move
>>
>>2775672
You hit the Doug button then hold on to your ass
>>
>>2777236
I can't tell what happened
>>
>>2775390
Quest 64
>>
>>2776907
High INT choice.
>>
>>2775390
> ITT: Battle Systems That I Fondly Remember From My Childhood Before My Stepfather Molested Me And I Became a Gay Crack Whore Or The Ones That Remind Me Of Those Times
>>
>>2777332
He got shot and died.
>>
>>2777682
So he became an american
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>>2776907
/thread
>>
>>2777979
Tons of games have better battle systems than the Gold Box games. I played the Gold Box games and even stuff like Dark Sun does it better. They display significantly less information than basically everything that came after. I'd say the gold standard of D&D combat right now is either Knights of the Chalice or The Temple of Elemental Evil. Don't wank over old shit just because it's old. Nobody's impressed.
>>
>>2777981
>They display significantly less information
I posted the original DKK pic, and I have to ask: what more information do you need? You see how far your people can go, how far the enemy can go, any status effects (sleeping/nauseous/held etc.), where you don't want to go because of stinking clouds or blade barriers, and it has the all important "enemy casting" bit. Once you know the spell radii, you can easily centre fireballs and ice storms and know where it will land. Not to mention you can act tactically and move your people behind walls, trees and other obstacles so the enemy can't see him. Plus you have the all important guarding and free shots against anyone moving away from your melee people, something a shitload of games lack.

I've played the gold box games since Radiance on the Commodore 64 and I fully stand behind my claim of it being the best battle system. I haven't played Chalice, but I *have* played a shitload of ToEE and whilst I admit it captures the feeling of 3.x , it has the drawback of *being* 3.x, meaning fighters suck unlike in AD&D (and gold box games less Pools of Darkness), the tactical element is mostly gone - everything is either wide open or so constricted you're clumped up - and it has shit like the 5ft step that you probably first encounter with the pike-armed skeletons in Emridy Meadows.
>>
>>2775390
First Dragon Quest. One on one, don't have to click through ten menus or wait for eight guys to attack.
>>
>>2777981
Don't really think TOEE is better. The increased level of fidelity just makes combat slower. The lack of animation in Goldbox titles is actually a bonus
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>>2775390
The way it makes every character different.
The way it makes you macro manage an entire party properly instead of just glorified 1 and supports vs enemy party based battle systems like trials of mana and star ocean 3.
The way it makes you prepare and design an strategy so you dont get caught with your pants down
The way it makes every enemy different, keeping the encounters fresh
The way it is designed around dealing a lot of damage like a turn based RPG instead of just another ARPG with constant dodges, punish and repeat.
So good. So fucking good. It just needed enemies to deal more damage so the filtered people that dont get the battle system die trying.
>>
Does anyone else feel that visible stats and damage numbers in vidya RPGs are vestigial remnants from pen and paper that don't really need to be there anymore
>>
>>2778062
it is needed to confirm what actually improves or decreases damage or to compare between abilities which one does more damage
>>
>>2776912
You are free to post CRPGs anon, no one is stopping you
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>>2775390
Is pic related the best rpg on vanilla/lite DS that uses a turn-based best battle system?
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>>2776912
Not my fault Western games don't have good gameplay.
>>
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>>2778243
I love it when the monster and character sprites are hilariously out of synch
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>>2775420
how do I get a clean rom of radiant historia
>>
Xenosaga 2's battle system is well designed, but the game has terrible balance so it ends up being being bad.
>>
>>2778267
https://cdromance.com/nds-roms/radiant-historia-usa/
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>>2778345
I hope this works. The past couple of times I tried to find this game I would get anti piracy loops.
>>
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valkyria chronicles is so fun and satisfying, especially 4
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>>2778243
What game is this? Looks fascinating.
>>
>>2778391
NTA but yandex suggests it's Ikusa Megami 2, one of the Eushully games. Only a few of them have English translations, Ikusa Megami not being one of them.
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>>2777236
Yes they are the QTEs no matter what you kh autists decide to dance around semantics, its the same shit
>>
>>2778652
>Yes they are the QTEs
No they aren't.
>>
>>2775390
Which is better for this game, original or 3DS port?
>>
>>2778052
Agreed anon I really liked it myself.
I also wanna give props to FF12 and by extension FF11 for using a battle system thats just really enjoyable to me as a mix of action and decision making
>>
>>2776912

Japs objectively make far superior gameplay than any Whitoid and kikes can.

Seethe more, faggot.
>>
>>2775422
It is, but credit where it's due the battle system makes you feel like a total badass, it's fucking awesome.

>>2778370
I'm not a moralfag or some shit, but it's pretty cheap on eBay if you desperately want to play it and you keep getting bad roms. Though honestly, unless you're into collecting games (which I personally am) I never really look at buying them as a valid use of money over just emulating the fuckers. Or getting a flash cart and playing on HW, that's dope too.
>>
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>CTRL+F Valkyrie Profile
>No Results
I didn't know such shit taste could exist.
>>
jrpg: radiant historia, trails of cold steel
arpg: Ys
trpg: triangle strategy
>>
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This is peak ATB
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>>2778906
It isn't. No amount of cope will change that.
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>>2778335
>well-designed
>terrible balance
Then it isn't well designed?
>>
>>2776329
i see you didnt mention demon coop
>>
>>2779033
I would count the battle system and the numerical stat values as separate. If you say they're not then yes it's bad.
>>
>>2779010
With such an amazingly pointed and informative rebuttal I have no choice but to admit that I am speechless.
>>
>>2779083
Why would he? Demon Co-op is the worst part of an otherwise great game.
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>>2775665
i keked
how have i never seen this
>>
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>>2775665
always gets a chuckle out of me
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>>2777131
I genuinely do not see how cold steel has better gameplay when they essentially reduced the interesting quartz system to equip spell you want and go. Tits FC had a system very similar to materia from FF7 except more complex and instead of being based on getting exp from battle it was based on farming resources to spend on upgrading the quartz.
>>
>>2778962
I looked this one up and it looks pretty cool, is it very long?
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>>2781059
As long as your teeny tiny pecker.
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TTYD improved on it in every way too, I wish they had kept going with it. With the small caveat of how 'safeguarding' really does break the game if you are good enough at them.
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>>2781059
Took around 20 hours for me I believe.
>>
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>>2778236
>>2778892
Cringe and false opinion typical of weeb plebs. Your retarded """"battle system"""" can't even summon creatures, scout or flank properly while chad CRPG can.
>>
>>2776780
garment grids were bad and unnecessary, but that's the only blemish in X-2's combat. Maybe some of the jobs weren't good, I don't remember 'cause everything else is bad by the time you get that far into the game.

also taking this opportunity to reiterate that Sphere Break is a top 5 minigame, easy. Better than TT by a long shot.
>>
>>2776911
strong agree, except for
>fanservice sequel
X-2 got done dirty, it deserved to be more than it was and it's worth a remake imo
>>
>>2775390
last remnant. you can't prove me wrong
I also can't prove im right.
I'm only talking about the battle system, yes other parts of the game are extremely fucked.
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>>2775447
how much does it kill my playthrough to grind for a bit?
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>>2778915
I played this ages ago when I was a teen and it filtered me. The super attacks were cool but at the end of the day aren't you just mashing attack with different timings or some shit for every fight? The stuff with item points and judging characters to send off was so strange, I never played a game like that before. Might give it another shot
>>
>>2778549
Three days later for slow me, but thanks for the reply. I'll have to look into it.
>>
>>2780753
I agree that was a step in a bad direction and enjoyed tweaking my quartz in Sky and Crossbell but everything aside from that is an improvement, including Master Quartz and sub-Master Quartz. That is also the reason why I have such a soft spot for Ao which is a mix of Sky and CS, at least when it comes to quartz.

Aside from that, I prefer CS gameplay because it gives so many tools to play with. Follow up, rush and burst, dozens of crafts, readable initiative bar that you can tamper with, orders and so on.
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>>2775427
Not the worst Tales game like many here wil say, but the combat still has too many issues for me to consider it the best by any metric
Eternia and Destiny 2 is where it peaked
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I am completely serious
Funny how a corny parody flash series of JRPG parodies end up btfo'ing almost all of them
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>>2781318
Oh look! The warpiggy's mad!
Anime website, faggot
>>
>>2782072
Stop coping. It's a Japanese-based website that disallows pedos, so obviously, very far from anime.
>>
>>2782072
What does that have to do with jarpigs being shit?
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>>2781318
>can't even summon creatures, scout or flank
Yes you can.
>>
>>2775447
I fucking loved this game and tried other SaGa games afterwards but they all paled in comparison.
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>>2775669
Monolith has always struggled with battle systems.
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>>2782291
Literally no, even the """"best""" jarpigs battle system mentioned itt didn't even let you stealth or summon creatures properly. Romance SaGa for example, have no AoO, Scouting, stealth, summon actual creatures and even actual melee/range combat.
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>>2782057
>Not the worst Tales game like many here wil say
Tales fags are the worst fanbase out there. I wouldn't listen to anything any of them said for a second.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0or0nEy2ps&ab_channel=meko

i like the fast paced combat and doing combos.
>>
I mean this with all sincerity when I say Unlimited Saga.
>>
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>>2782814
i played this for like 10 minutes
isn't it like literally a board game and combat is basically flicking one of these
i paid $5 for it and felt ripped off
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>>2782584
Stealth's for fags.
>>
>>2782584
Romancing SaGa has melee/range though
Minstrel Song has stealth and flanking too
>>
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>>2782584
>Romance SaGa for example, have no AoO
D&D's AoO is a garbage function that most people loathe, not having that trash is worth praising.
SaGa in general has better mechanics in the form of contextual offensive options like intercepts, which are functionally the same thing as AoO but not fucking retarded.
>Scouting
You're already scouting for enemies in the field, as they're visible and they have their own aggro ranges, detection and patterns
>stealth
Factually false, SaGa had stealth mechanics since the SNES games, later games like the PS2 entries have different stealth options that are also related to what kind of detection a foe is using, so you have to understand whether you need to avoid making sound or avoid being visible
>summon actual creatures
Again, false, RS1 alone literally lifted things like Simulacrum or Conjure Elemental spell wholesale from AD&D, TLR has Remnants with their own specific automated behaviours too.
This doesn't have anything to do with depth either, much like AoO, that's like saying that Pathfinder or Baldur's Gate are trash because unlike SaGa they don't have things like deities being actual agents you can interact with and align yourself with so you can actively get their blessings during fights, or because you can't play as whatever monster you like and their racial mechanics are shallow garbage compared to SaGa.
>even actual melee/range combat.
SaGa had extensive range mechanics for combat since the SNES games, there's entire bosses that play around the concept of melee/touch and ranged combat, even your own PC toolkit is specialized to deal with both ranged options (See things like Missile Guard which is again, lifted straight from AD&D where it's called Protection from Arrows) or melee options like your weapon counter stances.
>>
>>2783118
Utterly based, I kneel
>>
>>2782072
Your remarks ooze with weeb rage, fucking listen to yourself
>>
>>2775390
It's not the best but getting another turn from the press turn system always makes me arroused.
>>
>>2776329
I think one more in Persona is fucking terrible personally. I won't say Persona 3-5 are bad games, I just personally think the combat gets dull real quick. Unironically, I think Persona Q and Q2 have better combat.
>>
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While we're on the subject of battle systems, can anyone recommend one similar to pic related?oxk8yo
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>>2783393
yeah I love etrian odyssey
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>>2783397
There is Battletech which is kind of similar if you are looking for customizable mech combat.
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>>2783082
Nah, I had an idea for a RPGM that i'm working on that's basically built around stealth. Combat is for low IQ niggerchuds, boom gotcha.
>>
>>2776912
Because OP posted a JRPG. And the term "battle system" is something used within the subgenre, not for CRPGs, because it's JRPGs that have transitions to battle screens whereas CRPGs have combat take place in the game world/overworld and it's generally just referred to as "combat" and "combat mechanics".
>>
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>>2783118
>>2783129
This is the reason why all weebs are fucking retarded and can't into game design at fucking all

>SaGa in general has better mechanics in the form of contextual offensive options like intercepts
Intercepts are even more fucking basic and literally useless compared to AoO. There's fuckload more variation to trigger AoO then whatever the fuck Intercept is.

>You're already scouting for enemies in the field,
You literally factually don't. What you have are enemies running randomly around the world waiting to be bumped by you you retard. It doesn't even have traps, fog of war and secrets in dungeon. Go ahead, send Azami or any of Ninjas to properly scout a map alone and identify all the traps and proper areas for flanking. Oh wait! you retards can't! That's why jarpigs remain inferior.

>Factually false, SaGa had stealth mechanics
There's a reason why you literally and factually don't have any proof of this. You literally can't pass through a single enemy in SaGa games with stealth.

>Again, false, RS1 alone literally lifted things like Simulacrum or Conjure Elemental spell wholesale from AD&D
Do all weebs have to literally lie like this to make their goytoy entertainment seem complex? I'm talking actual fucking summon with which you can control and improve upon just like fucking D&D. There's literally no such spell in any of main RS games unless you're talking about the PS2 remake and even then they're still fucking inferior compared to fucking IE games

>SaGa had extensive range mechanics for combat since the SNES games
lol another fucking lie. What you have are abilities that are labeled as melee/range but they're literally played as the exact same thing. Compare both of this vid:
https://youtu.be/MKvQtTqsF5Y?t=30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWl_XTI-yj4
and weep you retarded weeb faggot. Keep coping, maybe then your whole genre will be on the same level as decades old cRPG lmao.
>>
>>2777237
Suikoden's problem was always that the games themselves were WAY too easy so character/Rune choices got rendered almost irrelevant as long as you had your essentials covered. It meant so much of the customization was irrelevant.
>>
>>2783393
Persona Q is just hama/mudo spam the game though. One More was better in Persona 3 where if you hit a resistance while attacking everyone, even if other enemies are weak to you attack, you didn't get the extra turn. Made it so you had to actually pay attention to what you are fighting and decide if a hit all is worth it.
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>>2783397
the combat was the worst part of this game
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>>2784829
being the worst part of a very well crafted game doesn't say very much desu
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>>2784767
>Intercepts are even more fucking basic and literally useless compared to AoO.
Interesting statement considering you immediately admit you don't even know what an intercept is.
If you don't know what intercepts are how can you say they're more "basic" and useless compared to AoO?
What classifies as an interception in Unlimited SaGa for instance? Or in TLR?
>What you have are enemies running randomly around the world waiting to be bumped by you you retard.
So you admit you can scout, but since you don't scout in the same exact way as Baldur's Gate and the likes it's...le bad!
The SNES games also have literal fog of war mechanics.
>There's a reason why you literally and factually don't have any proof of this.
Unlike you I actually do, here's proof.
https://files.catbox.moe/orrgif.webm
>I'm talking actual fucking summon with which you can control and improve upon just like fucking D&D.
So your entire argument is again, it's not a 1:1 copy of a specific edition of D&D so....it's le bad.
Also you can control your summons in Minstrel Song, which you'd know if you'd actually played the game.
>What you have are abilities that are labeled as melee/range but they're literally played as the exact same thing.
They're not, melee and ranged abilities are completely different for several reasons but you'd need have actually played the games instead of watching a youtube video of them.
Melee trigger things like counters, personal magical shields and certain kinds of interceptions like deflects, though interception mechanics vary from game to game.
Ranged bypasses counters, personal magical shields and certain types of interception, depending on the games your actual range, as in the distance between you and the enemy is also a factor when it comes to your damage, in some games like Scarlet Grace ranged attacks are also used to shut down interception.
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>>2784844
the worst part of a game being the gameplay says a lot
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I really loved Phantom Braves TRPG system. It just has so many interesting quirks to it like having skills linked to items you can pick up and have anyone use at any time. Even enemy bodies are items that can give skills!
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>>2784767
>You literally can't pass through a single enemy in SaGa games with stealth.

You can in Unlimited Saga.
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>>2784982
There's a sneak/stealth skill in Minstrel Song as well.
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>>2784767
You're completely retarded
>>
>>2784858
you said the combat was the worst part, not the gameplay equating combat mechanics to the whole gameplay seems a bit disingenuous no? and also, my point about it being the worst doesn't say anything about the quality of it, it just means it's worse than the rest.
>>
>>2784982
That doesn't count. If I can't place turrets, its not a real game.
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>>2784829
And yet it was still excellent
>>
>>2785578
Almost like the west is simply shit at making video games.
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>>2785578
>JRPG fans casually bringing up their favorite battle system and discussion
>Warpig fags do nothing but seethe instead of posting their own favorite
Ahh... "JRPG weeb losers" huh.
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>>2785578
You can simply post about your favourite gameplay from a WRPG here.
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>>2785624
>Warpig fags do nothing but seethe instead of posting their own favorite
that's every thread
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>>2784845
>>2785058
>>2784982
>>2785587
Notice that weebs literally are all retarded and can't argue for shit and incidentally shown that their """""battle""""" system are literally 100x inferior than based cRPGs.

>Interesting statement considering you immediately admit you don't even know what an intercept is.
Interesting because you also don't know what an AoO is since you tout a simple concept like fucking intercept as an advanced mechanic lmao such retard

>So you admit you can scout

>you can't scout in these games
>(You), the retard: hurr durr you can scout because ummm there's enemies hurr durr yeah
To all the lurking newfags, this is what retarded weeb thinking process looks like lmao

>The SNES games also have literal fog of war mechanics.
You literally haven't even played your own series lmao
https://youtu.be/lTO0a84A9A4?t=325
Again newfags, this is what weeb retards looks like lmao

>Unlike you I actually do, here's proof.
lmao, I'll give you that one, haven't played Minstrel Song but this is literally the only instance in the entire series where you can do that but the fact that the overworld and battle phases are still separated still makes it 50x inferior compared to the likes of IE games

>So your entire argument is again, it's not a 1:1 copy
Which is a relatively simple thing to do and adds depth and complexities to your game. Funny, how you retard immediately praises stealth when it's in 1 of your game but then do a 180 again when it comes to summon because you're THAT shitty at arguing.
>Also you can control your summons in Minstrel Song
Again, only 1 per character and even then you can only summon 1 instead of this kind of shit in fucking BG, a game which is several years older than MS.
https://youtu.be/c0wSqFLnrno?t=11
>They're not
Lmao, notice that you're literally proving my point here, there's a reason why you haven't shown any fucking gameplay vid of this actual range/melee distinction since there's literally none except the labelling
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>>2775390
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>>2785900
>Interesting because you also don't know what an AoO is
I do know, you roll to make a melee attack on an enemy that tries to move out of your melee reach, it's a shit mechanic nobody likes.
Meanwhile you still can't tell me what an intercept is in SaGa games.
>you can scout because ummm there's enemies hurr durr yeah
Yes, that's what scouting is exploring an unknown area while staying out of enemy detection range, you can do it in SaGa games too.
>You literally haven't even played your own series lmao
Oh I sure did, and I was also expecting you to pick up SNES RS1 since it didn't have FoW mechanics yet, whereas both RS2 and 3 did, and since nobody like that they got rid of it, until Unlimited reintroduced the mechanic in a different way, but sure, I was the one who didn't play the games, right?
>haven't played Minstrel Song
Oh that's really funny because in here>>2784767 you (incorrectly) say:
>There's literally no such spell in any of main RS games unless you're talking about the PS2 remake
So you keep admitting you don't play the games but talk about them while speedreading shit online.
>is literally the only instance in the entire series
It isn't, Stealth has been a mechanic since RS2, RS3 also has stealth, and Minstrel Song's own stealth mechanics were a slight elaboration of Unlimited's stealth mechanics in the first place
>the fact that the overworld and battle phases are still separated still makes it 50x inferior compared to the likes of IE games
It doesn't.
>and adds depth and complexities to your game
No it doesnt, BG is an exceedingly shallow game that confuses actual complexity with busywork.
>Again, only 1 per character and even then you can only summon 1
Nice contradiction since you can have five characters that can all summon something, read your FAQs slower next time
>notice that you're literally proving my point here
I've already disproved every single "point" of yours and outed you as a liar and a mouthbreather multiple times.
>>
>>2785900
>get continuously completely and utterly schooled in a game series you know basically nothing about and have the audacity to say JRPG fags can't argue their point
Holy immense anal seethe, but by all means continue since its hilarious.
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>>2782584
>Scouting, stealth, summon actual creatures and even actual melee/range combat.
JRPGs have all of that.
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>>2785920
Lol this nigger weeb can't stop losing.

>I do know, you roll to make a melee attack on an enemy that tries to move out of your melee reach, it's a shit mechanic nobody likes.
So basically you're admitting that jarpigs are so shit, that a basic bitch mechanic from decades old RPG mogs it hard since jarpigs don't even have anything close as indepth as fucking AoO. Sad.

>Yes, that's what scouting is exploring an unknown area
Lol and lmao even. You retards keep proving my point. You can't even send out 1 of your member to properly scout an area and assess a situation. The fact that I've btfo you on your own fucking examples and you can't even conjure any semblance of counterargument means jarpigs fags are THAT depusional

>whereas both RS2 and 3 did,
lol lmao even
https://youtu.be/HzZKAnFbEbQ?t=642
https://youtu.be/dF2nGh-m9aE?t=635
>weebs retard literally think that putting some small circle that limits your view around your character is a fog of war
This is why you're all genetically retarded.

>you (incorrectly)
There's a reason why you literally and factually can't refute it because it is fucking right. None of the main SNES game have any summoning spell and the ones on the PS2 are outright fucking inferior compared to old IE games. Again, there's a reason why you literally can't refute it.

>It isn't, Stealth has been a mechanic since RS2
lol lmao which is why there's literally no skill at all to do that and you're forced to fucking kill monsters to level that sweet sweet Techs? gtfo of here with your lies. Ignoring poorly implemented roaming enemies isn't steath. By that retarded logic, even Mario have stealth gameplay.

It doesn't.
I accept your concession

>No it doesn't
YEs it does

>BG is an exceedingly shallow game that confuses actual complexity with busywork.
Agreed, how does it feel that your entire fucking genre is still 200x more inferior compared to fucking BG lmao
cont.
>>
>>2786467
This is just embarrassing at this point
>>
>>2785920
>Nice contradiction since you can have five characters that can all summon something, read your FAQs slower next time
Do all weebs have THIS low of a reading comprehension? Read my statement correctly.
>You can only summon 1 being per character
not
>summon 1 being in 1 round of combat
Again, you didn't even try to show me the exact same kind of spell that BG has.

>I've already disproved every single "point" of yours
Pathetic, you didn't even refute my original point and keep trying to either point out an inferior versions of the same mechanic in cRPGs or outright refuse to show them. This is why all jarpigs are bad lmao

>>2786212
Nah, the most famous JRPGs like Final Fantasy, Suikoden, Chrono Trigger, SMT and Persona literally doesn't even come close to having those mechanics.

>>2785961
>>2786471
Concession status: Accepted
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>>2786473
>like Final Fantasy, Suikoden, Chrono Trigger, SMT and Persona
Except it has all those.
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>jrpg
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>>2786471
Just ignore him, hide, report and move on, he's clearly a beepzorz expy who's only in it for fishing replies and ruin threads, he's just posting inflammatory nonsense that contradicts itself multiple times in the same post.
>>
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blowing up walls and being invincible in power armor makes my dick hard, simple as
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>>2786512
>>2786553
I accept your concession
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>>2777157
I honestly like both the flashy and the more down to earth ones.
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>>2776912
ikr
>turn based
>best
never have i threw up so hard on the ground from the sheer redditness of these faggots
>>
>>2785900
these faggots are just fake "gamers" who dont realize the great replacement happening with quality games caused by the yellow jews
cant wait for all of them to get eradicated by the based power of the quality game designs of the western developers
cant believe retards think any snes jarpig trash is even callable as "good"
>>
>>2784767
>came out in 2000
>20 years ago, not a single jarpig of this scope existed and the ones that did were too linear and by the numbers.
> it was the first at starting the golden age of crpgs unlike final fagtasy that burned all of their good will by 7 and starting a legacy of shit
> lore and worldbuilding cannot be criticized at all after 20 years because of how amazing it was 20 years ago unlike trailfags and needing to make FOUR games to get a story across
baldur chads win again
seethe more jarpigs
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>>2786933
Enjoy your pozzed shit
>>
>>2786936
sorry but am enjoying baldur gate 2 unlike your trash filled dlc weab simulator 2030
enjoy having to do your nails to cast magic in your forcucken, jarpig maggot
you are subhuman no even under subhuman in how much you need to kill yourself for the betterment of the world
>>
>>2786933
>lore and worldbuilding cannot be criticized at all
It's easy to work lore when you have two full Forgotten Realms setting boxes, Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, Lands of Intrigue, Faiths and Avatars, Gold and Glory and other splatbooks to lift from. Not to mention buttfucking the lore with things like
>the Iron Throne plot to take over business shifted from 1356/7 and the Dalelands (from the grey box plot hooks) to 1368 and the Sword Coast
>The Chill mercenaries (the hobgoblins) working the Sword Coast when they're supposed to work in the Savage Frontier
>the Cowled Wizards turned from a group of hunted underground group of wizards in Amn into Athkatla's magical enforcers
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>>2782066
Based. I've played like 5 rpgs with flash rpgs being 3 of them.
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>>2786997
Torment is an underrated JRPG. Literally never gets mentioned in top 10 lists.
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>>2784767
>>2785900
>>2786467
I genuinely love how the WRPG crowd always comes out of nowhere to PROVE how bad jarpigs really are, and yet people playing JRPGs are actually having fun with their games, and they could literally care less about whatever the warpiggies are playing. You guys are like the vidya equivalent of the angry vegans, kindly fuck off and go back to clicking your enemies to death.
>>
>>2777157
Oh man, I LOVE the job system in V. VI is my favorite Final Fantasy, but V is a close second.
>>
>>2777237
I like V the best.
See, the thing about I and II is that you get six character slots, but 90% of the game you have the same 4 guys taking up 2/3 of those slots.
In V, you had the 'backup' group of 4 (or whatever they were called) so you could throw Lyon and whoever else you were stuck with back there, and only the main guy was a given. That was way more fun to me.
>>
Hating on JRPGs makes you a tranny
>>
>>2777157
It has nothing to do with age, more so it's because you're retarded.
>>
>>2786467
>>2785900

>>>/pol/ image
piss off
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>>2775390
I always enjoyed the battle system of this game shadow hearts 3 is a bit of a improvement but takes a while to feel as satisfying and is still not as good a game
>>
KOTOR has the best battle system, not only it is a very dynamic turn based combat, but also has animation of parrying, blocking, countering, etc I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY GAME DO THAT AGAIN, and will never see any game do that again cause KOTOR is the RPG GOD that nobody wants to copy for some reason FUCKING VIDEOGAME COMPANIES
>>
>>2775665
>Fingerless Glove Meter
Gets me every time.
Low semen is now hilariously canon.
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>>2787108
cope
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>>2786511
Nah, I enjoy playing them but literally none of those series have anything close to the mechanics I've mentioned. "Summons" in FF for example are just huge cutscene spells rather than a proper summon.
>>
>>2787202
m8, it's just an alternate form of NWN gameplay. 50x superior compared to JRPGs but nothing to write home about.
>>
>>2775391
I will never understand why people dicksuck kh2 so much.
>arpg where enemies give clean telegraphing of attacks
This is ok
>actually every boss has a secret counter that increases and decreases based on specific stuff
>combos have specific iframe frames you can completly abuse
>every superboss in the game is just a gimmick ridden annoyance
>hurr durr here go into the book
>hurr durr let‘s play cards
>hurr durr invincible mode
>hurr durr here is your clone
>hurr durr I hit you 100 times and you lost
>your party members do nothing against them
>strongest enemy has like 2-3 incredible busted moves
>getting out of air combos is pressing circle to abuse iframes
>tactics to beat the superbosses are basically cheesing tactics
I mean if some retard wouldn‘t have data mined it no one would have known all of this.
>>
>>2787497
Except Final Fantasy games after IX make summons actual entities rather than glorified cutscenes.
But yeah we all know how it goes it's not a carbon copy of some shitty D&D game so it's bad because it just is.
>>
>>2787757
>Except Final Fantasy games after IX make summons actual entities
Sure but it still feels like a cutscene factory rather than a proper summon or minion that you can move around with. Also,
>FF post VII
lol lmao
XII is the only decent one and coincidentally, also function the closest to a cRPG. Still inferior and limited to fucking IE games though
>>
>>2787492
I accept your cocession
>>
>>2787776
>It's not a useless generic enemy copypasted on your side like in the IE games so it's bad
Like clockwork
>>FF post VII
No FF is good, XII is even worse precisely because it introduces a lot of pointless busywork typical of CRPGs, like movement that doesn't matter.
Buy yeah go fellate your right click simulators some more, now with trans dwarves and body types
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>>2787783
I accept your cope AND concession
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>>2787784
>Like clockwork
You mean to tell me that a more in-depth and complex form of summoning is worse than the ultra simplistic and limited ones inherent in almost every single jarpigs? gtfo of here

>No FF is good
Agreed

>XII is even worse precisely because it introduces a lot of pointless busywork typical of CRPGs
>one the most if not the most indepth and complex gameplay of all the FF(still shit though) is bad because......hurr durr busywork
This is why jarpiggies gets mocked 24/7 on this board.
>>
>>2787790
>You mean to tell me that a more in-depth and complex form of summoning
Nothing about IE games is more in-depth than the average game let alone FF, partly because the functions themselves are worthless to begin, partly because the devs couldn't design a good game around them, Underrail is deeper than any IE/D&D based game and it's a pretty shallow game.
Same is true for IE successors like NWN, 90% of your summons are unusable garbage that is a meatshield at best, there's no functional difference between a FFX Aeon and summons in IE games, except that IE games have a shitload more useless summons and they move around on your screen, which as immersive as it might be doesn't change that it's pointless busywork because positioning doesn't matter, it's the same issue FF has with overly long animations, just in a different form.
>>one the most if not the most indepth and complex gameplay of all the FF
FFX is legitimately more complex than XII and FF is not complex at all to begin with, even the XIII trilogy is more mechanically complex than XII.
XII is the prime example of busywork in that series, which is why it introduced automation in the first place, it's a game bloated with meaningless functions that do not matter in the least nor do they define anything outside of some vague surface feeling in the form of animations, same exact thing as the IE games.
The very fact that both IE games and FFXII automate so much of the gameplay is precisely because they're bloated with busywork that nobody would want to go through manually, comprehensive automation is the single biggest warning sign of a bloated RPG, unless we're talking about Ultima 7 which is just a shitty game.
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How about the worst of all time?
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>>2787806
>Nothing about IE games is more in-depth than the average game let alone FF
False, I've just shown you an example of a superior form of gameplay and literally your entire response was
>hurr durr busywork
>busywork
>automation bad for some reason
>busywork
without explaining why those feature are as you called it ""busywork"". Do you literally think removing the summoning mechanics in BG enhance its complexities and depth?

>there's no functional difference between a FFX Aeon and summons in IE games
Now you've just made up blatant lies in order to prove your non-existent point. Show me a vid of Aeon moving around the battlefield. Show me a vid where you can summon more Aeons. Show me a vid where you can use Aeon as a distraction while your heroes flank a mob from behind. You literally cannot. Do you see the massive amount of difference here? The fact that the most basic of cRPG can do this while multiple million budget jrpgs cannot proves the inherent inferiority of the whole genre.

>FFX is legitimately more complex than XII and FF is not complex at all to begin with, even the XIII trilogy is more mechanically complex than XII.
Then you can simply explain why that is the case. You won't though.
>XII is the prime example of busywork in that series, which is why it introduced automation in the first place
DO you even know the purpose of automation? Did you even think the automations found in Paradox GSGs, Factorio or any other RTS are """pointless busywork"""? THis is why jarpiggies gets mocked on relentlessly on this board. They don't even know the function of basic mechanics.

Again, repeating the word ""busywork"" and """bloated"" without any explanation doesn't prove your point. It just makes us chad warpiggies have superior taste and reasoning than weeb plebs.
>>
>>2787832
>Do you literally think removing the summoning mechanics in BG enhance its complexities and depth?
There's no depth or complexity in BG, it's D&D, D&D combat is made to be as simple as possible BY DESIGN, because nobody ever wanted to spend minutes on every single encounter, it's a game of simple dice stacking, pretending otherwise is stupid, but given how you keep on lying I already know it isn't beyond you.
>Do you see the massive amount of difference here?
No, because I know what's going on under the hood in BG, and that's simple dice stacking, much like you can stack stats in FFX, same exact thing, different animations.
You're literally too stupid to understand game functions and theory.
>Then you can simply explain why that is the case.
I already explained too many things you simply ignored because you're a shitposter who doesn't actually play games, you're just here to indulge in your mental illness while pretending you haven't already been exposed as a massive liar, I've already given you more effort than you're worth.
>Did you even think the automations found in Paradox GSGs, Factorio or any other RTS are """pointless busywork"""?
Since when are things like Factorio or Hearts of Iron role playing games?
Are you unable to read english or do you think people are dumber than you are and can't follow a conversation you pathetically try to derail?
>>
If youd want to have a game, where positioning actually would matter, youd need to include miriad of different modifiers based on height, distance, wind etc. Most of dnd-games doesnt have none of that, so at most, positioning boils down to "how many enemies can you hit with aoe, without also hitting some of your teammates". Oh, and WOW BACKSTABS
>>
>>2775453
>Strange Journey
>Trash
You got filtered, didn't you?
>>
>>2787862
Including all those things still won't matter much if the the game doesn't make them matter at a mathematical level.
Take D:OS2 which has things like multipliers for damage depending on terrain height different, or Tactics Ogre which has those really odd and overly complicated terrain modifiers for hit% and all kinds of damage, neither matter because even if the mechanic is there the games don't really enforce those submechanics as a basic math level, at best they're vaguely relevant for the first two hours before general damage mechanics snowball incredibly hard because, unsurprisingly, global modifiers are more important than situational modifiers.
Hell look at the incredibly goofy and shitty "stealth" in Divinity and tell me with a straight face that this shit:
https://streamable.com/di11qo
is good and adds "depth and complexity" to the game, let's not get into the mobile phone tier battle system that is basically just a Press Turn variant but with the added sin of alpha striking and generally nonexistent skill design, I've played mobage with a deeper skill and stat system than this game, not to mention more honest and coherent design.

But maaaaan, you have to waste time right clicking on where your PCs have to go, wait until they gets there (hopefully the pathfinding doesn't fuck something up) and then you right click on enemies and get a 15% damage bonus and a -2 to their saves, absolutely engrossing gameplay, I'd play things like Sil or Cogmind over any IE derivative.
>>
>>2787901
Yes, I meant it. Stuff like "its harder to hit creature smaller then you, if its closer to you then the span of your arms", or including weight into calculating if attack knockdown enemy or not, etc.
>>
>>2787919
>>2787901
cont. but most of those thing actually get simulated via basic random number, without going into the specifics. So all the "movement" just takes up time, without providing any valuable difference to experience
>>
>>2775427
>Arise
braindead button masher.
>>
>>2787844
>There's no depth or complexity in BG, it's D&D, D&D combat is made to be as simple as possible BY DESIGN
And again, I never disagree with that assessment. The problem however is that literally 99% of jarpiggies battle system is WORSE than fucking D&D including the ones mentioned itt.

>because nobody ever wanted to spend minutes on every single encounter, it's a game of simple dice stacking, pretending otherwise is stupid, but given how you keep on lying I already know it isn't beyond you.
Again, you can call it whatever you want but jarpiggies are still worse than the aforementioned ""basic"" system. You didn't even try to refute that literally 99% of jarpiggies have no concept of proper positioning or freedom of movement.

>No, because I know what's going on under the hood in BG, and that's simple dice stacking, much like you can stack stats in FFX, same exact thing, different animations.
Again, you still keep on prancing that there are no relevant difference between the 2 when there's obvious features and gameplay that differentiate between the 2. Are you going to call Dark Souls or Dragon Dogma the same kind of game now?

>I already explained too many things you simply ignored because you're a shitposter who doesn't actually play games
No, you don't. You 've failed to even address the most basic part of my argument and you've doubled down even further with this nonsense claim that they're both the same.

>Since when are things like Factorio or Hearts of Iron role playing games?
Both have automations that serves exactly the same purpose as BG. To make the player automate certain aspects of the game's AI and to avoid intense manual micromanagement. The fact that you can't even tell the function of this basic gameplay feature just hammers the point that all weebs are hopeless when it comes to game design.
>>
>>2787988
The fact you cant understand that your style of preferred combat does not fit every RPG tells me you dont understand the basics of game design not every RPG needs DnD style combat and i love DnD some games want simpler systems some want more complex systems if every game was designed by you It would be boring as sin A good combat system just feels fun to use it doesn't need to be bogged down in all sorts of mechanics to be good its why no one really talks about crpg combat because they all feel the same on a basic level and they rarely do anything interesting with it so if you played one you have functionally played almost all of them its why crpgs started to die at one point and jrpgs thrived one genre tried doing different things and gimmicks while the other stagnated and i say this as someone who loves crpgs
>>
>>2787988
>No u: the post
If you seriously think Factorio, a game that is literally about creating functional pattern chains uses automation (protip: the automation in Factorio is literally meaningless) in the same way as Baldur's Gate, or that Hearts of Iron's abstraction layers are functionally the same as something like Divinity you're actually mentally impaired.
Not that it matters since you will keep replying in the same exact way no matter how many times people point out your nonsensical leaps of logic, all you want is just to rile shit up no matter how much of a socially stunted moron you end up looking.
>>
>>2788093
>>2788165
Don't even bother. This faggot's so desparate to get the last word in that all he's gonna do once he runs out of arguments is go "cope", which, it appears he's already doing
t. Fan of both wrpgs and jrpgs (tho I like the former a better)
>>
>>2787988
What. Factorio and Hearts of Iron aren't RPGs, only CK 2.
>>
>>2787197
Yeah battle system was good for the time magic sucked though
>>
>>2787197
>>2788337
Samefag ESiLing won't change the fact that only the first two matter
>>
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>>2776329
>one more
shut the fuck up you stupid asshole not it's not
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WRPG? More like WHRT lololololol
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>>2787808
>How about the worst of all time?

easy this
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>>2787808
I don't care if I missed out on the greatest story of all time. It's not worth it.
>>
>>2789142
It's not good, but you could certainly do worse.
>>
>>2789142
>please do the shittiest version of demon negotations ever implemented
>then repeat each conversation multiple times to grind out enough cards for a new Persona
>you don't even need that new Persona btw the handouts will do you just fine
>>
>>2775390
Grandia 3
Star Ocean 3 fuck you I liked the MP deaths
Skies of Arcadia
SMT Digital Devil Saga
SMT 4+Apocalypse
Paper Mario Thousand Year Door
Shadow Hearts Covenant
Tales of Graces F
Etrian Odyssey
Mana Khemia 2

Just the ones off the top of my head
>>
>>2787808
Final Fantasy XIII
No, automating auto-battles isn't fun and the game literally plays itself for you.
>>
>>2789408
still better than FFXV's Hold O shit
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>>2789516
Just don't hold O.
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>>2789527
except that is the only way to attack in XV, that is what the tutorials said
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>>2789532
Don't HOLD O
>>
>scroll down
>all these japanese games
damn this board is retarded
>>
>>2787808
Xenogears probably isn't the worst, I guess its more or less standard for the genre, but it's not good. The challenge comes from learning how to end random encounters as efficiently as possible. Very rarely are you ever in danger enough to use an item, and the options at your disposal are extremely limited by linear progression.
>>
>>2789142
Nah, even within Persona, EP is not the worst. P1 and P3 are leagues worse.
>>
>>2775393
Cold Steel has a few too many mechanics and systems without balancing the games around them. They're so easy to exploit that even nightmare doesn't really pose a challenge. I remember dying against a boss several times simply because I accidentally triggered his S-craft at 50% healthwith Laura's own before I could set up the rest of the party. Not to mention 90%+ dodge rates with guaranteed 30k damage counters.
>>
Dragons Dogma. It shits on every other action combat RPG I have ever played, with shit tons of variation between classes.
>>
>>2789881
Basado
>>
>>2775427
Maybe as a melee character, but playing as Rinwell is a lot worse than other games. Smaller spell list, fewer slots and the finisher is on the same button as the combo extender which is the part that lets you break the game.

Not really being able to juggle enemies is also a letdown.
>>
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>>2788093
>The fact you cant understand that your style of preferred combat does not fit every RPG tells me you dont understand the basics of game design not every RPG needs DnD style combat
Did I say every single vidya RPG NEEDS to be based on D&D? No, what I and every single competent game designer are saying is that JRPG gameplays are SIMPLER and less complex than fucking D&D and thus leads to LESS gameplay options, less tactical options and lastly the most egregious, the lack of build options. There's a reason why 99% of weebs fellate the ever living shit out of SaGa games or Last Remnant and that's because it's head and shoulders above most JRPGs with its complex gameplay mechanic and its intricate underlying subsystem. Imagine the disappointment that I've felt when one of the best jrpg series pales in comparison to a fucking decades old cRPG that's based on a fucking outdated ruleset. Even the so called best and advanced jrpg gameplay doesn't hold a candle to fucking Baldur's Gate, a game everybody agrees to be overrated. The Last Remnant is the only jrpg that gives me hope that JRPGs will improve and be on the same level as cRPG and even then that game still got hold back with it's nonsense JRPG menu based gameplay and godawful dread lock system. I just wish it doesn't have to be this way anon.

>>2788165
You didn't even read my post explaining the nature of automation in IE games and your refutation is fucking laughable.

>>2788245
All of them have an automation feature designed to ease the player and you literally cannot refute this.


Thank you for coming to my TedTalk
>>
>>2787497
I also play those games, which is why I know you're a lying retard.
https://youtu.be/ED9pAHD-P4M
https://youtu.be/G7VVZ2Ub9iw
Nice cutscenes.
>>
>>2787754
>>arpg where enemies give clean telegraphing of attacks
ala KH2.

>>secret counter that increases and decreases based on specific stuff
Except that isn't how RVs work. They are a hardcoded value placed in every single attack in Sora's arsenal. They grant everything in his moveset uility and allows for good tech setups that otherwise wouldn't be possible. It's an evolution of hit(flinch)counters/damage threshold of regular action games. It's systematic, logical, and allows for a good deal of optimization/freedom. If you want to make something work, you always can.

>>combos have specific iframe
That's a good thing. It makes Abilities better/stronger for situations and gives additional defensive options, when Sora already beats out the competition in combat variety and everything has synergy *while having trade-offs*. That creates depth: I.E. having tactically relevant options. There is no end all to be all for his Abilities/Limits/Drives/Summons. Sora's moveset is consistent in that the player can damage/avoid anything so long as they know what they're doing, and can do so in a plethora of ways, especially when under heavy conditions. Like using Flash Step to block Data Vexen's Ice Pillar which works as a gap closer, combo start-up, defensive maneuver, and position Data Vexen away from his Data Circle. All in one instance. Everything is uility-based as per designed.

>>every superboss in the game is just a gimmick
Gimmicks add variety and makes fights more interesting. It's the primary reason Data Org is the pinnacle of boss design.
>>
>>2787754
>>party members do nothing against them
Donald & Goofy provides Drives, Summons, Limits, and items. If you're talking about damage, only an idiot would want them to kill the enemies for you. They aren't traditional party members in the sense they play the game for you, or split-up/ruin the moveset by being playable, instead they are resources you have to manage and you can adjust the A.I. accordingly. It's the best implementation of party members in an ARPG. Not worthless, but not overpowered either. Also, Goofy Tornado has an RV of 0, which is useful for stunlocking.

>> 2-3 incredible busted moves
Like.

>>getting out of air combos is pressing circle
Which requires timing and can't be spammed since you're in free-fall after Sora flips.

>>are basically cheesing tactics
None of them are, except Fenrir with Negative Combo equipped which isn't possible on the highest difficulty. Things like Berserk HS is highly execution-based.

>>wouldn‘t have data mined it no one would have known
People already knew about flinch counts when playing the game, they just didn't know about the specific numerical value for attacks (which you can just count in your head). Which is par for the course, since KH2 doesn't mention or acknowledge 90% of its mechanics besides the general basics.
>>
Grandia 3
Despite being dogshit in every other regard, it's still in the running for GOAT jarpig battle system.
>>
>>2789287
skies of arcadia was too slow
>>
>>2792826
>A combat system this great stuck in FUCKING GRANDIA 3
I can't cope with this
>>
Is there any battle system as good as final fantasy x? I would love if they remake the game but with visible encounters
>>
>>2792986
I like mana khemia a lot which is similar
To me X's biggest flaw is how easy it is
Its systems are great and it's very snappy to play
I love how much the camera moves, how much unique voicework there is in combat which you hear exactly once ever
But using wakka on flyers, auron on armored units etc isn't very engaging
Boss fights are great though and I wish more games had environmental actions in combat like attack the generator
>>
>>2793024
>mana khemia
maybe i’ll give it a try
>>
>>2777237
5's battle system is literally 2 but better
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I’d say that the TWEWY games have pretty stand-out battle systems, with NEO in particular being my favorite.
>>
>>2775390
Yo what game is that?
>>
>>2789142
The story is actually worth it. Both games.
>>
>>2793115
Radiant Historia
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>>2775427
>Arise
>great
Pick one
>>
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>>2775390
>>2793115
>>2793313
It's amazing how badly the 3DS rerelease fucked up the artstyle.
>>
>>2793414
jesus thats awful
>>
>>2793414
I thought I was the only one who hated the new style.
Why did they take Eruca's tomboy style and make her a more feminine character. The hair, the softer face, and even the pose all took away from her tomboy princess appeal.
>>
>>2793414
I can't believe they ruined Eruca so bad
>>
>>2793412
Great thread, just taking a collective shit on it. Fuck Arise.
>>
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>>2793412
I can't imagine anyone posting this other than whoever wrote it
>>
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Grandia 3 would have been the perfect game if it was about the hot mom and the beastman sailor guy instead oer her shit kid and his generic friends. Hasn't been a JRPG combat system to top it since.
>>
What turn based RPG should I model my FF clone off of?
>>
>>2795090
Enchanted Arms
>>
>>2795090
Nocturne Rebirth
>>
>>2795090
SaGa Scarlet Grace
>>
>>2775427
It was aight. Not terrible as some people would tell you. But as far as action combat goes, Vesperia is more my jam.
>>
Nioh 2. As far as ARPGs go, that is a system I could go back to any day of the week. Some other games whose combat I've enjoyed recently:
>Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
>FFVIIR
>SMT3
>D:OS2
>>2778955
>triangle strategy
mah nigga. I hope that now that the dust has settled and the game is coming to Steam maybe it'll get a bit more love. It's the best SRPG we've gotten in a while that isn't part of some ongoing series.
>>2775447
How do you learn it? I started playing the game and I've been going about it like any other JRPG, but I feel like I'm not really learning anything new and it'll come back and bite me later on.
>>
>>2775390
BEHOLD MORTALS!
>>
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>>2775390
Final Fantasy V will always be my favorite JRPG. It's not the most complex, and I like Etrian Odyssey better purely complexity wise, but FFV is elegant, gives a lot of possibilities, and is extremely fun to replay.
Four Job Fiesta only makes it better.

Also I love the characters, and the plot while simple is serviceable enough to keep you moving. Galuf is one of the best grandpas in JRPGs too.
>>
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>>2775391
Ys shits on this game easily.
>>
>>2775586
>Get an axe Blade on Zeke
>BERSERKER... SLA-
>BERSERKER... SLA-
>BERSERKER... SLA-
>BERSERKER... SLA-
>RAGING CHARGE!
>>
>>2795612
nice bait
>>
>>2777232
Its not just normal turn based though. every unit has a speed stat, which can be modified in combat, attacks can be delayed, arts trigger at different times, which all change the order of other units, something that can be done to match turn bonuses like guaranteed crit, heal, EP res, etc.

Its not a genre defining change or anything, but calling it "only turn based" is disingenuous.
>>
>>2795638
>WELCOME TO AXETOWN, POPULATION : YOUR FACE
>>
>>2776896
Evidently FFX-2 is not one of the three games you’ve played, that game is ATB perfected
>>
>>2776818
The game looked too "girrrrrl pooooowerrrrr" for me to even play the game once
>>
>>2795073
There have been so many. This is the kind of thing people who have played like 4 games say.
>>
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>>2797122
well, name some then.
>>
>>2797708
See
>>2775447
>>2778387
>>2781937
>>2783099
>>2787893
>>
>>2797727
you're comparing apples to oranges
>>
>>2783995
here's a pity (You) because nobody bothered to reply
>>
>>2794127
It would at least make since if she started the game that way, then lopped all her hair off and went full butch a few hours in, but yes rounding out that jawline is inexcusable.
>>
>>2798382
Those combat systems are better than Grandia 3's and they came out after Grandia 3. That was the discussion. What more do you want?
>>
>>2775427
this game isn't that good
i'm not even a tales fag, this is my second tales game
>>
>>2775390
hows the translation of the 3ds version?
>>
>>2787893
SJ is trash, yes.
>>
>>2783099
>Romancing SaGa has melee/range though
lol lmao

>Minstrel Song has stealth and flanking too
lmao lol
>>
>>2800657
His statements are entirely correct and you are a faggot.
>>
>>2800657
Nothing with what he said retard



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