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I tend to be late to a lot of parties, so maybe someone else worked this out. But here it goes

>Be spoiled brat, daughter of military general
>Start resistance movement in vassal state to rebel against dad
>Flirt with Squall, Savior of Reality to pass time until you can meet with head of mercenary organization, while also dating Squall's arch-rival (and living in a train car with two virgins and being called princess all the time).
>And a dog
>Have adventures
>Become sorceress
>Get saved by Squall and acquire epic space craft that super-advanced state of Esthar "lost"
>Go on to participate in saving of reality
>Happycreditsroll.jfif
>3 weeks later...
>On a break
>Squall hooks up with Bestgirl Quistis
>Flip shit, run away
>Brood, develop sorceress powers
>Conjure Guardian Force Griever and seek poetic justice
>Guardian Force erodes memory
>Begin to forget Squall, "secret" of SeeD, and previous life
>Take over world, launch time kompression scheme
>Possess Edea, don't recognize her
>Manipulate Seifer, don't recognize him
>All memory of previous life consumed by Griever, only thing you know is the world must pay
>Ex-Boyfriend comes to kill you, but you don't recognize him
>Right before death, run back in time to a certain meadow without knowing why
>Find woman you possessed
>Find guy who just killed you, remember the truth
>Promise fulfilled
>Die
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>>2770094
>Squall hooks up with Bestgirl Quistis
Pfft hahaha.
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>>2770094
>Bestgirl Quistis
lol. quistis is cringe. 8 doesn't have good girls, let alone best girls
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>>2770288
Best girls relative to Quistis and Rinoa.
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>>2770094
>still clinging onto that debunked theory

https://kotaku.com/is-squall-really-dead-final-fantasy-producer-addresses-1800007113
>>
A plot so bad in a series loved by such smart people that they invent wild theories for decades to try to rectify the cognitive dissonance. Incredible thing, really.
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>>2770094
>Rinoa
I didn't like a single girl in this game but especially Rinoa. She's such a basic bitch it's unreal, in fact the entire game is filled with tons of basic boring bitches. My entire school life was filled with basic bitch experiences, you know the type of chick that thinks zodiacs is a personality.
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>>2770094
First of all, a sorceress has no need to junction a G.F.
If anything, Ultimecia junctioning herself unto Griever would give the G.F. amnesia.
In fact, feeding G.F.s amnesia greens makes them forget abilities.

Further supporting the theory that Ultimecia is actually suppose to be Artemisia, as in artemisia absinthium a.k.a Wormwood. Which is used to create absinthe.

Using alcoholic beverages as a design scheme is actually pretty common. And in FF8 developer interviews, they laughed about Kitase's use of cocktails for color design. The yellow-red "sunset" gradient of the logo of Squall and Rinoa is one example.
We also know that the main scenario was inspired by The Wizard of Oz, with the main antagonist being the wicked witch of the west. With Esthar being the Emerald City.
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>>2770835
Rinoa and her dog are essentially Dorthey (who fell from a star; hence the motif). So there's no doubt that Rinoa and Ultimecia were suppose to be different people.
However even Kitase recognizes R=U interpretation as making sense.
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Ackshually when they killed Ulti they broke the universe, the meeting spot was the orphanage (not just for these two dorks) in case they got blown through time and such, which they did
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I don't think Rinoa = Ultimecia works because of how time compression is introduced. It's one of my favorite theories and I think it improves the game, but the logic isn't there.

>Ultimecia compresses time, merging the past present and future
>Everything that changes during this folding is then reflected in its era but not throughout history

This is shown when Squall's younger self appears, confirming that you're existing in tandem with your other selves.

>Edea is able to take the idea of SeeD and Ultimecia's powers
>When time uncompresses these things remain true, while Ultimecia's death is also confirmed through the ceasing of her historic meddling

Odine and others in Esthar assert that Ultimecia has yet to be born. That means her future self existing is a constant event that hasn't been changed so her era still comes to pass. What Rinoa's involvement in that is is unknown, but we can reason that Ultimecia inherits her own powers along with Adel and Edea's branches of the sorceress 'bloodline' at some indeterminate point in the future. Every sorceress that inherits from Rinoa onward has a compounding of their own power due to Ultimecia hording it at the end of the world. This is why she has corrupted sorceresses in her basement, those that don't want to give up their powers - when they DO die, the powers will automatically pass to her.

It's a feedback loop for Ultimecia that doesn't pay-off (unless there's a Stephen King Dark Tower epilogue ending out there somewhere). If the same events come to pass then there will always be an Ultimecia born in the future that compresses time at the end of the world. What that world looks like when things go back to normal and she's dead is unknown, but sorceress magic has been removed from that world (along with a bulk of human life).
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>>2770094
>be japs working crunch time in a souless nihon work cruncher corporate slavery
>publisher and upper management pressures you to work faster and finish your game
>decide to use the same base model for Ultimecia to basically save time
>decades later autismos come up with a retarded theory about how your decisions were extremely deep and it nuanced the story in an intricate way
literally death of the author
its funny to see I'll give you that
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>>2770842
It's not even a stretch to connect a falling star with Artemisia. Because "The Wormwood Star" is a biblical prophesy of the end times, when a fallen star would turn all the water bitter, hence "wormwood", a bitter grass.

Some people believe it predicted Chernobyl. And isn't Ultimecia's "k" accent funny?

Technically Adel is more of a "fallen star". And in some sense, Adel, Rinoa, and Ultimecia all had their consciousness in the same body at some point in Adel's past.

Dr.Odine was worried about Adel's consciousness overpowering the others. But there's little to no dialogue towards the end to confirm this. However, as Ellone is bring back Rinoa from Adel's Past, we see 3 colors exit Rinoa. Blue, Pink, and Red. Only blue, Rinoa, returns.

During time compression, Rinoa says "I'll probably disappear". It's not clear what she meant or why she said it, unless she is linked to Ultimecia in some fundamental way.
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>>2770893
She seems to take them over by basically removing their soul, when the sorceresses lose it and attack stuff it's basically just Ultimecia doing it from what I remember, this is implied even more with Rinoa having all those out of body experiences

We unfortunately didn't get to see a huge difference because the game ends after she dies, but with the power to change time being so successful it makes sense they would safely remove her from the future and keep the present the same. I was under the impression they basically got back to the orphanage just fine, which is how most of the FF's from the period end
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>>2770288
Best is relative. Even in a game without good girls, one is inevitably still better than the rest and thus the best.
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>>2770913
Those sorceresses in the basement are those at the end of their life who refused to let go of their magic, leading to their corruption. Ultimecia is suffering the same early stage effects going off of her arms and legs. Adel's body and Edea's facial veins. I want to say this is explained by Edea loosely at the end of the game at the orphanage. Interesting connection to draw with Rinoa's early piloting though, I figured that was more due to Rinoa's sorceress form being more primal and unrealized so Ultimecia couldn't connect to her as stably as she did Edea.
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>>2770933
I always figured it was Ulti, not the magic, doing the corruption

Esthar for instance used magic fairly well, but it also makes sense that natural magic would be more unstable
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>>2770835
>>2770907
I suspect this is tied up conceptually with FF7 and it's green mako pools. Jenova being a "calamity from the sky".

It's sorta implied that the Ancients as well as Jenova were extra terrestrial. Although we see the planet with strobing green streams of Mako - there is subtext that this green stuff was not naive to this planet. Transplanted by ancients. That this planet's spiritual energy was actually Red.
But that's coming from some dummy text regarding Summon Materia and who the planet belongs to.

You've probably heard that Edea was a recycled unused character from FF7. What you need to know is that, during development "Jenova" wasn't always Space AIDS. It started out as dormant part of the human brain (or genes) responsible for ESP, Telepathy, Telekinesis ect...
Edea's character in FF7 would have lived in a forest (I believe Gongaga, Zack didn't even exist in this early concept). And Fujin and Raiden (Also recycled from FF7) would have specialized in finding people with these special abilities. Just like how they look for Ellone in FF8. I believe Edea had an ability like the Keystone, aka Key Materia, used to enter the temple of the ancients.

Remember that? You placed the keystone on the altar and sunk into the ground. You ended up getting it from Dio in Gold Saucer. Which is shaped like a tree - which is a completely different development story.

Anyways, this "Key" Ability is still seen used by Edea in FF8. As she walks through walls and sinks through floors. What's not immediately obvious was Ultimecia's intent to use Edea's "Key" ability to unlock Adel's Tomb.
She may have even used it on Squall when he is pierced by her ice spell.
Meaning Ultimecia didn't have complete control over Edea, and needed to pass her powers over to Rinoa (or anyone else) and keep them unconscious.
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>>2770972
Which probably means Time Compression was a unique ability specific to Adel.
And actually these "special genetics" and "keystones" were plot elements used in Xenogears and Chrono trigger, which were developed in parallel with FF7. And "Arbiters of Fate" were also used in Chrono Cross. Fate being a super computer.

Rinoa's coma was never really explained.
But neither was Kid's in Chrono Cross, after defeating FATE, when Harle stole the Frozen Flame.

Kid, grew up in an orphanage that was burned down by Lynx and...maybe Harle? It's open to interpretation, but I think Harle changed got the frozen flame and altered Kid's past.

Rinoa was the only one that didn't grow up in the orphanage. But there may be some plot details left out. Like some near death experience.
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>>2770985
I'd bet my life that FF8 had an underwater portion planned, and ended up using the FMV for Time Compression.
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>>2770986
They did. The submarine would have been Norg's Pod.
I was surprise. I kind imagined NORG as this fatass with diabetes that needed the pod like a scooter and monitor his blood sugar.

But after giving it a second thought, it makes more sense that he docked with the Garden after it was adrift in the ocean. The rest of the Shumi Tribe also live deep underground with lots of aquariums. But it's likely the Shumi Village was suppose to be an underwater culture.

I suspect you were meant to visit the Shumi Village via sub, some time before crashing into F.H. Or perhaps while the Garden is being repaired.
Besides the Garden, the pod likely docked with F.H. inner fishing area. And the pond area in Shumi Village via some underwater tunnel. Maybe the harbors in Dollet and Balamb too. Coincidently, NPCs in F.H. have a lot to say about the Shumi Tribe because they're craftsmen as well. The Master Fisherman from F.H. also appears in the Shumi Side-quest.
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>>2771035
On the FF8 concept map, there is no Shumi Village. But there is a "Master Village" located east of Trabia Garden.

After the F.H. concert and you gain control of the Garden there is a small window of time where Selphie doesn't join the part. This is so you can't visit Trabia Garden before Balamb.

The availability of a underwater pod might changed some of the progression. But also make a lot more sense. For example. Galbadia has a navy fleet out looking for Ellone. We never SEE the ship, but that's why they White SeeD ship picked up Ellone while the Garden was adrift. Later, the White SeeDs mention Galbadia's fleet cornering them just before Esthar ships showed up and took Ellone away.

Having the pod means Ellone wouldn't have had to go with the white SeeDs. And could have evaded Galbadia so much easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puEXCyqkEKA

It's possible there was another party split at this point too. Where Selphie would have taken the pod to the "Master Village" in order to get to Trabia Garden.
Meanwhile Galabia's Garden was in Balamb's Harbor. So you might have used the pod to sneak-in there too.

Some underwater sites to see would include the underwater train tunnel connecting Balamb and Timber. The Underwater Tower aka the Deep Sea Research Center. The submerged Lunatic Pandora. Pupu's crashed UFO similar to Starky's in Chrono Cross.
Possibly something akin to FF3's Une's Cave, perhaps another sorceress to explain Rinoa's condition. Matoya's cave - who in FF1 made a potion to wake a sleeping prince - who then gives you a magic key.
>>
????
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>>2771337
If you're new to /vrpg/ you should know that ff8 threads involve speculations like this that fall outside the game's narrative and explore the developer's train of thought based on stuff from development interviews and parallels with other Square games.

So if you're going to say Ultimecia is Rinoa with amnesia...well, story-wise it doesn't make sense that Rinoa would keep junctioning G.F.s after becoming a sorceress. She doesn't need their power.
However, across Squaresoft games you do see similar transformations. Like Serge's Father in Chrono Cross becaming Lynx due to the Fate Supercomputer altering his brain.

The equivalent to the Fate supercomputer might be Dr.Odine's Junction Machine Ellone. Although we never see the J.M.E. you could reason that it (rather than G.F.s) changed Rinoa into Ultimecia.
>>
Speculating about FF8 lore is about as retarded as speculating about KH lore. Every schizo in this thread has thought more about either of them than the original writers did.
>>
Dunno why fans speculate about R=U or Squall is dead when the themes as presented are good enough.
It's an interesting look at fatalism and how if true, it is impossible to fight against.
>>
Oh, an FF8 thread! That's fun, I'll just -
>It's that idiotic and debunked shit
Aww. Sorry about the brain damage, OP.
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>>2770094
R=U is wrong for a number of reasons, but the flaw specifically in yours is that Griever doesn't exist until Ultimecia pulls it from Squall's mind during the final fight so it can't explain any memory loss for Rinoa.
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>>2770094
She’s Ultie
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>>2771542
She's not
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Anyone else ever read that Altimate Rewrite fanfic that got abandoned right at the end?
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>>2771553
Correct.
Younger = better
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I hate how even though Quistis is supposed to be only 18 her design choice, her horrible clothes, hair, glasses and role as teacher all make her look like a (single) mom/cougar going after young Squall (and he being grossed out by her).
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>>2771974
Based Selphie appreciator
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>>2772093
omg I love the fanart

Yes, Selphie is the best girl
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>>2771389
bro that's the entire fun of FFVII-IX

the worldbuilding was so good it's untouchable

mfw wandering around balamb garden which becomes your fucking airship bruh
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>>2772098
FFVII and IX were the ones with decent world building. VIII never was.
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>>2771646
Trains run on time
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>>2771373
>ff8 threads involve speculations
More like schizo-kun always hijacks every thread even vaguely related to FF8.
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>>2772103
Agreed. With all this talk of developer interviews and such, I want to also remind people that having to go outside X to consume X is poor storytelling.

With both XIII and IX, their endings left a lot of major information unanswered and that was frustrating. Don't take that as me being a IX-hater though, I love that game and its themes.
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>>2772654
right, the schizo the believes everyone contributing to the topic is the same person.
And the "real" posters are the mindless bots that have nothing to say except "I like...I agree...I meme..."
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>>2771974
>>2772093
Selphie is so fresh and spunky she makes me diamonds whenever she's on screen.
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>>2772773
You'll learn to differentiate the schizo's posts from the rest eventually, newfriend.
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>>2771978
to be fair she could be a 45 year old cougar with her last egg revving up for a final drop- and then totally forget because of GFs and think you're still 18
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>>2770835
Isn't a sorceress technically junctioning Hyne or something like that? Like, their power comes from the castoff of a god, which is why it must be passed down and the host cannot die.
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>>2774591
Yeah, something to do with him giving humanity half of himself but it was the weaker half and it's hidden within the sorceress'
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>>2770928
ok, then i pick posessed edea, because at least she's hot
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>>2770288
You area lying filthy whore.
Quistis is top tier waifu
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>>2770094
whore
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>>2775106
>pathetic incompetent sperg that got cucked by a floozy
>best girl
lmao
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>>2775139
Brah she's a teacher, wants to jump on her students dick and has glasses. What are we even arguing about here
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>>2775158
i'm sorry, i don't find girls who reek of desperation hot
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>>2775160
>i don't find girls who reek of desperation hot
yet this guy is over here simping for Rinoa and Selphie.
shamefur dispray
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>>2775186
like i said - ff8 has not a single girl worth simping for
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>>2775199
Lemme guess you think Rinoa and her basic bitch self is hot shit. What a pleb
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>>2774591
The way the old man in Balamb tells it, Hyne was a god who created humans.
On the white SeeD ship, the legend is that Hyne was a magician. Neither version mentions the sorceresses.

It's only thing connecting them to Hyne is the title "Hyne's Descendent".

Nojima wrote a short story, of a class room lecture on the "Magic of Hyne". It's uncertain whether Sorceress' magic is Hyne's magic. In the story, the teacher believed Hyne's magic is the power of suggestion, dreams, fantasy, delusion.

Many people believe the part of Hyne casting off his skin is a references to Hyne in FF3, who had no skin.
It might be worth noting that without skin he'd have no eyelids and couldn't sleep. Or if he did, it would be with his eye's open.

The old man in balamb ended his story with a weird detail saying "It may even be watching you right now". Hard to say how early the "Eyes On You" song was planned for FF8.

Hanging up in the old man's house is a ship's steering wheel. But in Japanese they'd call that a "handle". Hyne and Handle are close enough in Japanese to be a pun.
It's not evident in the English version, but in Japanese it's said a witch is a "vessel" for this power. Vessel like a ship. As the legend goes, the half they received from from Hyne wouldn't obey their command. As if to say, they didn't have a steering wheel.

This would also be a story parallel with the events of FF8, where the Garden is adrift with no control.

What's interesting is that both Cid's Office, and the command room in have sails or sheets. but no other controls. Which might suggest that, among the Centra Civilization, Sorceresses were pilots for their mobile forts aka the Gardens. Which is not unlike some Babylonian culture, that revered woman as the pillar of their community, a mast in a sense. The wind that fills their sails and propels them forward.
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>>2775251
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEEEEL!

(That's from a country song.)
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>>2775257
Oooh. I've done it. I've cracked the code.
I've...become a summoner.
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>>2775259
>>
You guys know the tradition of breaking a champagne bottle on a ship during it's maiden voyage? Superstition says, if the bottle doesn't break, the ship and passengers are cursed.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dEu29RY44
Go now if you want it. An otherworld awaits you.
Don't you give up on it.You bite the hand that feeds you.
All alone cold fields you wander
Memories of it cloud your sight
Fills your dreams, disturbs your slumber
Lost your way - a fallen knight
Hold now aim is steady. An otherworld awaits you.
One thousand years--you ready? The otherworld it takes you.
Go go into the sand and the dust and the sky
Go now no better plan than to do or to die
Free me. Pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me. Fill me with sin now get ready to fight
You know you will
You know you will
You know you know you know you know that you will
You know you know you know you know that you will
You know you will
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Hope dies and you wander The otherworld it makes you
Dreams they rip asunder The otherworld it hates you
Free now ride up on it Up to the heights it takes you
Go now if you want it An otherworld awaits you
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>>2775282
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>>2775261
remember remember the 5th of November
the gunpowder, treason, and plot
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Rinoa is Ultimecia. Didn’t read the thread.
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>>2775282
Fuck, is that Yu Yevon?
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>>2770094
Translation is shit so it’s pointless to make theories on this game
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>>2775304
The connects between FF8 and FF10 is quite a deep rabbit hole. It gets deeper once you know about the cut content.

The Centra Ruins in FF8 is basically a prototype for The Cloister of Trials in FF10.

FF9 has "Active Time Events" that would pop up at certain points in the story, where you could witness something that was happening elsewhere.

FF10 would have had a "delustion" or "daydream" system similar to this. Where Tidus would imagine what is happening else where. For example, he can't go into the chamber of the Fayth so he tries to imagine what Yuna is doing in there. Only the player gets to choose what he fantasizes about.
A remnant of this in the final game, are Tidus' dreams. Which he stops having after a certain point in the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkXazfQeg14
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>>2775326
That's intrigues me, I'll better start digging. Only connection I was aware between X and other games in the series was quite obvious and 'in your face' Shinra kid.
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So at the end of FF8 Ultimecia summons the strongest being Squall can think of.

I don't think it's actually "Griever" you're fighting.
Not any more than Gozer, in Ghostbusters, is the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

It just manifested as whatever they were thinking. In the movie they say Gozer was a sumerian god. But none of that is true. However the name "Gozer" did come from a documented poltergeist haunting, where the name "Gozer" appear around a house.
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>>2775368
"Poltergeist" is one of the names give in the Warring Triad in FF6. Alternatively it was called Demon. In concept art it was given the name Zurvan, which would later be it's name in FF14.

"Zurvan" was also the named dropped at the end of Chrono Cross as "The sea of dreams" or the Sea that dreams return to.
The name comes the Persian God of infinity and keeper of time, like the Greek Chronos. Zurvan is depicted with wings and a lion head.
So what Squall imagines as the most powerful force is "Time".
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>>2775370
The final dungeon in Chrono Cross is Terra Tower, Which was displaced from an alternate timeline where reptites evolved rather than humans. Or the apes that would become humans anyways.
So just before you fight the Dragon God. You climb these steps, with impaled monkey heads.

Now, the "Sea of Dreams" business kind of comes out of nowhere. But it's likely loosely related to a creation story told in the Dragon Fort, about life coming out of the sea, and primates discovering lavos and evolving. In the same way that we think of cavemen discovering fire.
So there's this Prometheus mythos going on.

FFX also plays with a sea of dream concept. And in FFX-2 Last Mission, the Gullwings climb a tower that's seemed to belong to Snake men or something. And at the top, there's an image that looks like Sin.
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In FF8, junctioned G.F.s occupy a region of the brain. Which is why they cause memory loss.

Instincts and impulses are all part of what is known as the reptilian brain.

The Warring Triad of FF6 could represent the Triune brain of the brain. A concept popularized by Carl Sagan's book "Dragons of Eden". A hypothosis that early man evolved to deal with reptiles and that the dragons of our imaginations is inhereted trait that shapes our behaviors.
In FF6, the dragons emerge after Kefka absorbs the Warring Triad.

So you have the Reptilian complex, which are impulses like aggression, habits, and rituals.
This is, I think Zurvan, or "Poltergeist", because it deals with object permanence. You put your keys in the same place every day without thinking. Then one day they're gone. Where did you put them? Why did you leave them somewhere else? Some people are so habitual, they refuse to believe it was them, and someone or something must have move them.

Then you have the Paleomammalian complex. These are more evolved instincts and behaviors involved in socializing. This would be the "Fiend", which was also named "Doom" and even "Sephiroth" in concept art.

And then the Neomammalian complex. Further evolved skills regarding language, planning, and perception. That would be "The Goddess", also called Sophia. "Wisdom". Who was the mother of the demiurge in Gnosticism.

In FF7, "Jenova" was suppose to be a dormant part of the brain that allowed for ESP and such. Back in the 80's a term for people with mental powers were called "Espers" from ESP. Infact, I think in the early SaGa series (aka Final Fantasy Legend), "mutants" were called "Espers" in Japanese.
Espers or Mutants are just humans with magic. They can also make themselves "compatible" with other lifeforms. Kind of like jötunn in Norse mythology. A mechanic with Espers is that they can consume monster meat, or cybernetics, and change into monsters or robots.
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>>2775403
>Triune brain of the brain
*Triune model of the brain.

Adel and the rest of Esthar could even be Espers/mutants. The Esthar soldiers are "cyborgs" after all. Adel has pointy ears.

Although maybe Sorceresses and Espers are different things? Adel had the powers of a Sorceress. But suffice to say she was different in a lot of ways.

I think Adel, Rinoa, and Ultimecia are just another Warring Triad. Ultimecia's Planning, and Rinoa's social dependency fit the complexes at least. The only one we don't get to see is Adel.
>>
>>2770288
Best girl in any Final Fantasy ever is Rydia. Dagger is okay too, but definitely not best.

Celes is pretty hot, too.

But yeah, Rydia goddess-tier.
>>
>>2775251
"Hyne's Descendent" is supposedly a title of respect. Which seems to conflict with everything else we know about Hyne and Sorceresses.
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>>2770972
>What you need to know is that, during development "Jenova" wasn't always Space AIDS. It started out as dormant part of the human brain (or genes) responsible for ESP, Telepathy, Telekinesis ect...
Parasite Eve
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>>2775484
Close. Parasite Eve involved mitochondria which is passed down from the mother. It was based on a J-horror book. Like, The Ring. Although I don't think Parasite Eve was ever adapted into a horror movie. And even "The Ring" adaptions and sequels leave out that parts about genetics.

We can suppose that the Sorceresses power is like Mitochondria DNA, in that it's passed down by mothers. The theory is that mitochondria started out as bacteria that ended up in a symbiotic relationship.

So when Chrono Cross gets into the evolution of life, it involves single-cell organisms and jellyfish. And when it talks about dragon gods as "plasma entities" there's 2 interpretations. Plasma as in fire or stars. Or plasma in the cellular sense.

So Chrono Cross had a theme with reptiles, dinosaurs, dragons.
And FF8 had a theme with flowers. Flowering plants actually evolved after mammals. Before that, planets like ferns, reproduced with spores rather than seeds. Seeds being fertilized eggs with a protective shell that lay dormant. In FF9, the plant monsters in the Evil Forest release spores upon death.

The sorceresses power might be similar to spores.
It's been mentioned before that Edea was originally designed for FF7 and that she was meant to live in a forest. Although FF7 had a number of forests, it's not certain which one. But there is the ancient forest. Ancient in the sense that it was before seeds.
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>>2775690
It might be worth nothing just how preoccupied the 90's were with AIDS and homosexuality.
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Raijin in FF8 has an interest in bugs. Based on his overdue library books (Insect Guide | Color Edition) and the odd notice by the Discipline Committee to report any unusual bug sightings. Likely posted by Raijin himself. Although you have to wonder where the developers were going with Norg's Cocoon.

As you know, flowers attract insects to pollenate the plant. They have various methods. For example, Orchids release a scent molecule identical to the sex attractant of female African Beetles. Their petals also resemble a female in a mating position. So basically, they use males to pollenate themselves. But only for a few weeks before the females have come out of the ground. After all, the Orchids needs the beetles to reproduce as well.

It's hard to say how much of Fujin and Raijin's personalities were planned and carried over from FF7. But given their names, they must have had some connection to Wutai - or an early version of it anyways. The Wutai region has bug monsters. Like Silk worms, naturally. But also electric horned beetles.

An overlooked detail in FF8 is that Ellone hates bugs. Winhill was full of Bite-Bugs and Caterchipillar. The nicknames Laguna uses are suppose to be a onomatopoeia for the sounds they make. And in the training center she is attacked by a Granaldo. They're actually attracted to her. Something to do with a "frequency" she emits when she uses her power.
But her powers are never really explained. But like a pitcher plant, she seems to attract insects and put people to sleep.
It might also be loosely connect to summoners in FFX, manipulating pyerflies.
"Phantom Light Bugs". Kind of like Star Wars Midi-chlorians.
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>>2775791
In an early draft of FFX, it was the Guado who spoke a different language, not the Al Bhed. When Tidus first arrives in Spira he finds a sphere of Seymour and his Mother, but he can't understand what they're saying. It seems the craft of creating Fayth Statues was a Guado art. At the very least they tend to the Farplane, which Seymour mentions has a unique scent. The pyerflies there recreate images of the dead from memory.

It's a similar concept seen in Vagrant Story, only it's "Snowflies" instead of "pyerflies" and they follow the flow of The Dark™, instead of the Moonflow. The Dark is responsible for magic, undead, and awakening psychic powers.

Speaking of memories, It's a recurring thing in the final fantasy series for memory loss/retrieval to be accompanied with the appearance of an antlion.
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>>2775795
Technically, the antlions we fight are not antlions at all. Antlions are the adult stage that look like dragonflies. The form that burrows in sand holes are called doodlebugs.
The symbolism needs to be explained in English because when we think of amnesia, we don't phrase it as "lost time" or "missing time" like they do in Japan. The doodlebug's sandtrap resembles sand falling through an hourglass.
Doodlebug is also a name for people who like to draw. It's also an electric railcar (like the forest owl base)
>>
Looks like schizophrenia is back in the menu, boys!
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>>2775802
In FF9 you fight the antlion in Cleyra. Shortly after, Sir Frately - who has amnesia - appeared. He says he can't explain it but suddenly he had a vision of his home.
Frately Irontail is just another chapter Square's book of incomplete narratives.
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>>2775803
Cannibals need to watch out for prion disease.
They eat holes in your brain. Making you forgetful or even go crazy. Wendigos are a cautionary tale of cannibalism among American Indians. They're taught that during a famine it's better starve than eat each other. Because you become possessed by the Wendigo Spirit and live a cursed life. Nothing will ever satisfy you.
>>
Wendigos in FF8 are found around Deling City and Galabdia's Canyon region.

They're headless monsters.
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>>2775844
They also appear in FF12's Sochen Cave Palace. The bestiary reads:

"In ancient times, certain tribes would sever the heads of the fallen, and commit the body to a watery burial. By eating the heads of lost family, it was believed that one could bind their souls as protective spirits. Such practices have long been abandoned, but its legacy may be seen in the sodden corpses since risen to gouge the earth in search of buried kin."
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>>2775854
>>
>>2775803 There are three type of people in this thread : Schizo-kun, people who whine about schizo-kun and people who come here to say the game is garbage or that any theory is false without argumentation. Guess who i like to read ?
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>>2776127
They're still butt hurt.
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>>2775690
I read long ago that originally FF7 was set in New York and the main character was a detective. Aya Brea looks like a female Cloud.
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>>2776166
https://arch.b4k.co/vrpg/search/image/q_6V59szwZNIkFgFIhfMfg/
Still demented.
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>>2776166
R=U chad-bros, we can’t stop winning. We literally can’t.
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>>2776244
>Laguna being Squall's parent isn't confirmed either but everyone accepts it.
This is sexism.
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>>2776244
Ah the last groans of a dying paradigm, can’t stop the spring of R=U revolution
>>
You say, thinking this level of autism extends outside of this thread, lmao.
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>>2776302
You say, to nobody, because nobody is here for your company. But you keep comping back for theirs.

Bet you don't even sage your shitposts.
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>>2776450
Exactly. Nobody. Only a schizo talking to himself. I'll go back to ignoring, just like everybody else. Proceed, schizo. You have some talking to yourself to do. Years later.
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>>2776748
Don't forget to take a screenshot. Reflect on your social life. Your words. Your emotions.

Time...it will not wait. No matter how hard you hold on, it escapes you.
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>>2776302
>You say, thinking this level of autism extends outside of this thread, lmao.

yeah, one guy REALLY likes R=U despite being officially debunked:
https://kotaku.com/is-squall-really-dead-final-fantasy-producer-addresses-1800007113
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>>2778733
What Kitase really says is the Rinoa and Ultimecia weren't planned to be the same person. Hell, any of the girls were potential sorceress reflecting the player's choices.
He is forced to admit that he didn't make the game. The final treatment was done by someone else he's probably never stood in the same room with.
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>>2778821
In the Dissida coverage on Rinoa, he talks about how He, Nojima, and Nomura all had different visions of who Rinoa even is.

She's not capable. She's not competent. She can't do anything herself. Her moe factor can't last forever. She really did get in the way and cause more problems than she solved.
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Did you miss me?
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>>2770094
kek, quistisfags are so anal broke after all these years they have to write fan fictions on 4chan
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>>2776801
>next level schizout
wew lad
>>
I want one fucking FF8 thread without that schizophrenic guy.
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>>2781112
It makes sense for Rinoa/Ultimecia (while remote controlling Edea) to choose Seifer as her knight because you know, Seifer was her first choice (ouch), Squall only getting a piece when Seifer already deflowered and dumped her.
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>>2781490
Not happening. He's been at this for over 2 years.
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>>2781687
>It makes sense for Rinoa/Ultimecia (while remote controlling Edea) to choose Seifer as her knight because you know, Seifer was her first choice (ouch), Squall only getting a piece when Seifer already deflowered and dumped her.
I've got a theory regarding that. FF8 is the second iteration of a time loop:

>In the first loop, Seifer stays with Rinoa after their "summer of love"
>Rinoa becomes the sorceress known as Ultimecia
>Seifer becomes Ultimecias knight
>Ultimecia sends her consciousness in to the past
>Her consciousness arrives at the first point in time she encountered Seifer, their "summer of love",
>Seifer can feel that Rinoa is not (at this time) Ultimecia
>Kicks her to the curb
>FF8 begins

It also explains why Ultimecia/Edea has such a hold of Seifer, when she first went in to the past Seifer was already her Knight.
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>>2781815
You know, I think there's only 2 or 3 places where Seifer and Rinoa's relationship is even brought up.
• On the Forest Owl base, she asks if Seifer is with them.
• Then around Timber and at Galbadia Garden.
• During Seifer 2nd Fight, if Rinoa is in the party he'll say something.

That was his whole reason for attacking the President. But they don't dwell on his motivations very long because he becomes entranced soon after.
But you can tell the developers had more plans.
Rinoa was in the FF8 demo - she didn't speak but she replaced Selphie in the FMV. In Japanese Rinoa and Selphie have a similar speech pattern. And based off of developer interviews, I suspect Selphie, Rinoa, and Ellone were all mixed up in the same character.

We know Selphie's portrait was created first, right after Squall, so originally she had greater importance. I believe she was meant to be "Sis".
Because even though the game had a young Ellone, you never see her in the orphanage with Squall. And you can detect that in Irvine's Flashback. He says Squall was hogging "Sis" to himself - a weird thing to say when he was talking about Selphie.
We know Selphie likes trains and flowers. And the thing that everyone remembers is fireworks.

When Squall first meets Rinoa at the dance. There's also fireworks. As if to say he can't remember the last time he was this happy. Then on the forest owl base, he has to wake Rinoa up in her room. A possible hint Rinoa had dream powers as well.
Of course, Seifer had his "romantic dream" he mentions in Dollet, and in Edea/Ultimecia promises to give him "dreams". In the demo disk version, Seifer says something enigmatic like "You were there" hinting that his dreams were extra ordinary.
We know Seifer was influenced by Laguna's Film. And Laguna wrote for Timber Maniacs. Data mining reveals that Edea was meant to appear in Timber Maniac's projector room. As if the "dream" she gave Seifer was really just that film+hypnotic suggestion.
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>>2781889
Ellone grew up in the flower town of Winhill. The npcs there remember her along with the Flower Festival.
This, I think, carried over into Selphie's concept and her obsession with the Garden Festival.

Then there's Quistis. She's also a "big sis" with confusing feelings for Squall. Although this character arc is limited to the after-party scene, right before they meet Ellone. Then, once they all remember the orphanage, she confesses she mistook her feelings as love.
But there's no doubt in my mind that Quistis was always a separate character from Ellone.

The game begins with Squall in the infirmary, and Ellone is just outside saying "we meet again". Oddly distant for a "sister", don't you think? Not "together again." From the developer interviews, I gather that this was not the original start of the game. There was likely a Laguna Dream at this point. Which is why Squall was reluctant to talk about his dreams to Seifer outside the Dollet Communication Tower.
Squall asks Quistis who the girl in the infirmary was, but Quistis doesn't remember seeing anyone.

So officially, according to the director, Ellone is not a sorceress. However that might not have been the case during development. And even though everything seems to revolve around Ellone, there's a pretty obvious change in direction at the start of Disc 3.
Ellone "involuntarily" connects with Squall while she's asleep and has this telepathic conversation with Squall about her vague motivations up to that point. Why Squall was her "only hope" to change history.
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>>2781935
From the start, Galbadia was invading Dollet to seize the communication tower. What's not clear is how it was all connected to Ellone. If you play the Demo Disk, the game over screen says "Their story began that morning, but actually, it's been continuing since the beginning of time."
Even though Squall and Seifer fight off the Galbadia invaders, the game is like - oh Dollet agreed to just give them the communication tower anyways.

Galbadia only wanted to broadcast - to Esthar - that they have a sorceress now. She's an "ambassador".

There's a fun theory that says for the last 17 years, Galbadia has been sending people to Esthar but no one ever made it pass Abandon; the undead monster in the Salt Lake.
So the real need for a sorceress was to get past this "defense" - if that's what you can call it. There's no explanation for the change in the salt lake between the past and present seen in Timber Maniacs.
But because Abandon is undead, and the Fake President is undead, it's possible they were remnants of Sorceress War II. And that they were originally sending "Ambassador Edea" on a good will mission to clean up these monsters.

Indeed. Edea joins the party unexpectedly, at the "sea side station" after Squall crosses the bridge alone with Rinoa. However Edea just mentions just says she wants to meet Dr. Odine about her powers.
The "sea side station" was actually meant to be the Dingo Desert Station. The D-Prison is where P. Deling sent rebels. The prison is also our first sighting of Moombas.
Edea's whereabouts at the start of disc2 are unknow, but presumably she was in D-Prison with Seifer.
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>>2781979
Potentially, there was a completely different scenerio where you escaped from prison with Edea or "Matron" and learn that she's possessed. They mention the prison had an anti-magic field or something, but that ended up being irrelevant and had no impact on the battles or anything.

It's possible Edea would have been free, temporarily, in the prison. Although it would mean Squall and Zell wouldn't have dreamed about Laguna and Ward. It the field could block Ellone as well as Ultimecia's J.M.E.
It was important for Zell at least, to operate the machines. But in a scenario with Edea, that might not have been necessary.

In FF9, there was also a submerged prison/palace call the "Desert Empress". The security system has a frame similar to what Edea wears. Zidane's party splits off and goes to the Forgotten Continent, while Cid helps the other party escape.

It's possible FF8 had a similar split. Where Selphie's group went to the missile base. Squall - with Edea - took the train to Esthar. Although Edea would inevitably be possessed again.

Anyways, the desert palace had statues of the Warring Triad. Which could be a clue about the D-Prison's 3-part design. The triangle pattern is also seen in the Deep Sea Research center with Bahamut.
There was probably a scenario similar to FF6's Gestalt Empire going after Espers. Just like Kuja was collecting Eidolons.
SeeD uses G.F.s to combat the sorceress - but they don't talk about were the G.F.s come from. Or when exactly the Odine's Junction system was developed.

In FF9, Kuja takes the stone to Mt.Gulg, a volcano, in order to extract Eiko's Eidolons. In FF8, the Gaulg Mountains are on Balamb along with the fire cavern.
>>
holy autism
>>
>>2782017
While Seifer is torturing Squall he has to leave because Galbadia is ready for the missile strike. So conveniently Seifer isn't around during their escape. But he's also not seen at the missile base.

I see an alternative scenario. Where Seifer was interrogating Squall about SeeD. Seifer never became a SeeD, it's not even clear if he wanted to be a SeeD. The discipline committee and garden staff are all called "Templars" in the French version.
Seifer mentions he's been on lots of exams, as if to say he's failed every one. But one of the prerequisists is to obtain a G.F.

So potentially, Seifer, Squall and Edea would have gone off to find a G.F., possibly revisiting the Fire Cave and delaying the Missile Strike against Balamb - explaining why the hit Trabia first.

In Stranger of Paradise, the world map looks like it did in FF1. However the locations are all ripped from "other dimensions" (other Final Fantasy Games). Like the Earth Cave is actually Rathwall's Tomb from FF12. The Fire Cave is supposedly from FF8. Although it's not all that familiar looking. FF8's Fire Cave didn't have ancient ruins and door ways. But perhaps it was suppose to.
There is an area in Stranger of Paradise called "Chamber of the Lonely Lion".
So I have to wonder if Squall and Griever were connected to the Fire Cave somehow.
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>>2782044
Ifrit is Lion-ish. Moomba-ish. His bangles are also decorated with 3 circles in a triangle, that might be related to D-Prison and the first floor of the Deep Sea Research Center.

Traditionally "Templars" are associated King Solomon's Tomb. Some times they find the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail. Solomon had a ring to command demons. There is a Solomon's Ring in FF8, but its different from Squall's Ring and connect to the Doomtrain G.F.

Speaking of trains. Rinoa says that Galbadia found the forest owl's base and blew it up. This was shortly after Seifer leaves with Edea at the TV station. Maybe too short, but it's possible Seifer gave them away. Watts and Zone ended up on the White SeeD ship, but it's not explained how they ended up there.

But I believe Watts and Zone were originally holding the G.F.s Quetzalcoatl and Shiva.
You end up getting them from the class room terminal. But based on initials, Zone may have a few posts on the Garden Network with replies from Seifer asking "Who is this?".
After the encounter with the Fake President, Zone learns about the broadcast in Timber. Possibly from Seifer over the Garden Network. Although it defies logic how Seifer and Quistis would beat them to the Timber TV Station.
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>>2781815
>>2781889
>>2781935
>>2781979
>>2782017
>>2782039
>>2782044
>>2782076
FF8 has the deepest lore!
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>>2782084
It's not really lore. But it does have deeply invested fan who are deciphering it 20 years later.
That's not really to the game's credit.

Like how the community gathers around and supports some autistic retard purely because their autistic. If FF8 told a complete story that made sense, we wouldn't be here talking about what it could have been.

For instance. Ellone is in Balamb Garden during the missile strike. She could have died. Ultimecia's Plans would have been ruined.
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>>2782084
Did you know?
Final Fantasy has a ton of Star Wars references.
Biggs and Wedge and "You're my only Hope" just to name a few.
The Moon in FF8 was basically the Death Star.

SeeDs are like the Jedi. Only instead of using The Force they use Guardian Forces.
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>>2782129
Yes. And Adel and Rinoa were basically frozen in carbonite.
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>>2782129
The Dark Omen in Chrono Trigger is basically a Star Destroyer. Digging up ancient Sith Ships was a plot line in the 90's Tales of the Jedi darkhorse comics. Particularly on a planet (or moon) called Yavin 4.
Sounds a lot like Yevon to me. Oh, and Sith amulets/talismans were a thing. One in particular was made by a Sith Alchemist named "Syn" which could possess the wearer. Hmmmmm....
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>>2782494
But I don't think anyone at Square could have known that. I mean, I haven't read any of these books. I'm just looking at wiki information.
So back in 1998 there was Jedi Academy series with Luke's new Jedi Order. And they went to Yavin 4 and killed a bunch of Leviathans that Sithspawn. Idk. Maybe FF8 took some inspiration from that.
The creator of the Leviathans would later be revealed to be an Exiled Dark-Side Jedi. But the wiki is telling me that wasn't confirmed until the Book of Sith released in 2012. Idk.

The head master of Galbadia Garden, in English, was Martine. But his name in Japanese is Dodonna - another star wars reference.
Dodonna had set up a rebel cell on Yavin 4.
This was the setting of the Rouge One movie which was all about the Death Star Blueprints, and Dodonna was the one who came up with the plan to destroy it. This was all a prelude to Episode 1.
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>>2782647
But now that I think about it, there were Star Wars games on the PS1. So devs might have had connections to some design documents.

Also, there where Star Wars Tabletop RPGs going back to the 80s. Which included the Yavin system as a setting, which seems to have evolved over the decades. Idk what plot seeds they might contain.
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>>2782924
Sith sounds like “Cid” pronounced by someone with articulation disorder. Siths work for the dark side of the Force and against the light side. The heroes in classic FF games were called the heroes of light.
Another major theme in the FF series is nature vs technology, with the heroes in the side of nature and the baddies on the side of technology. Thus nature = light side.
The heroes are always on the side of nature, with the exception of Cid, who is ever attempting to seduce the heroes into using technology (dark side).
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>>2782992
According to the law of two Siths are always found in pairs: a master and an apprentice. In Star Wars the Sith master is revealed to be the emperor himself. In FFVI Cid works for the empire and in IV and VII, for Baron and Shinra, respectively — which stand for the empire in their respective games — before he “joins” the party. Which side of the Sith dyad does Cid stand for? The apprentice, working under cover for the emperor to sabotage the party? Or as the master, looking to seduce the protagonists into joining the dark side?
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>>2783001
In FFXII Cid’s cover is blown and he’s forced to come out as an agent of the dark side. I speculate that the story that we see in XII is actually an alternate universe where we accidentally blow his cover and change the timeline, whereas in the original timeline he would’ve joined the party.
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>>2783003
Speculate comes from the Latin speculare (reflect), from speculum (mirror). Archimedes used giant mirrors to burn the sails from enemy ships. Archimedes was a scientist who used science for warfare, just like Cid. Einstein was also a scientists who used his knowledge to help create the atom bomb. Japan was attacked by nuclear bombs in WW2, creating Godzilla, which is Bahamut.
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>>2783023
A mirror reflects reality in an inverted way. Thus looking into a mirror is like looking into an alternate reality. In one of these alternate realities Cid could have been a sexy girl. I believe this is what we clearly see in FFXV.
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>>2783027
Unless their mirror is curved.

>>2783001
AKtually, the "Sith" history is quite long and alternates between the rule of one and rule of two.
To start with, Sith were a species (and sub species) with red skin and face tentacle things. In the 90's comics they had an Egyptian aesthetic, as well as a heiroglyphic language.
You know in the latest movie, Rise of Skywalker, they have a Sith Dagger with heiroglyphics. C3P0 can read it but all droids are forbidden to translate it the Sith language because of a rule passed by the Senate (Palpatine).
Over time the Sith title eventually extended to other species as they mingled with Dark-side Jedi exiles.
For example "Master Summoner" Sorzus Syn was a Dark Jedi who ended up on Yavin 4, creating Sithspawn mutants as well as alchemical amulets.
The Sith had a lot of slave races too. Like the extinct race that built the temples on Yavin 4. They're actually built over crystals.
Kyber Crystals are used in everything Sith and Jedi. They're living crystals. A lot like Final Fantasy's crystals. I don't think you really see it, but on Exegol in the final move, the sith are all torturing a mountain sized crystal.
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>>2783262
It'd be neat if FF8 had other planets to visit with the Ragnarok.

You know, older games get remade with bonus dungeons. But what does FF8 get? Nothing.
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>>2781815
>It also explains why Ultimecia/Edea has such a hold of Seifer

It's because Seifer has mommy and daddy issues and extremely easily imprints onto whatever role model or surrogate parental figure he sees. Like Laguna on TV.

The actual reasons for things in FF8 are way more interesting.
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>>2782129
>>2782148

People never talk about the movies that inspired FF8. Wizard of Oz, Jurassic Park, 2001 a Space Odyssey, Alien to name a few. I'm sure there must have been some war movies in there.
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>>2783525
>It's because Seifer has mommy and daddy issues and extremely easily imprints onto whatever role model or surrogate parental figure he sees.
So why didn't he imprint on Cid? You know, the guy raising him.
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>>2783534
>2001 a Space Odyssey
eh. It would be interesting if the J.M.E. machine was a Hal 9000. But we never see it. The only real connection Space Odyssey has with FF8 is a mysterious Radio Signal which grounded air travel for the past 17 years. It's implied that it was Adel. But the only evidence for that is the message on the Timber TV Screen "Iwillneverletyouforgetaboutme"

>A quick recap of Space Odyssey 2001 and 2010
They find a monolith on the moon. It's sending a signal to Jupiter. So they send a crew to Jupiter with a HAL 9000 computer. The AI kills nearly everyone. It is explained in the following novel that it was resolving a contradiction in it's program. It was given secret information - a message for the crew (who don't know about the monolith yet). But the HAL computer doesn't keep secrets.
Anyways, David, the last member continues the mission alone and finds a bigger monolith floating around Jupiter. It sucks him into this other dimension, a room similar to The Caraway Mansion in FF8. We see him age rapidly. Then become an embryo. The movie ending is stupid.
But in the 2010 Space Odyssey novel, the alien intelligence turns Jupiter into a star by increasing it's mass. Earth names it Lucifer. David exists as some kind of incorporeal being within the monolith. And relays a message from the aliens (we never see) that all the worlds are theirs (earth/humans) except Europa which has some primitive aquatic life, presumably the aliens plan to foster and evolve to greater intelligence.
It jumps ahead some 19000 years, Humans have colonize the other moons or "worlds". The lifeforms on Europa (only described as having tentacles) have started to explore the other side of Europa that faces away from Jupiter/Lucifer, allowing them to see the stars, the other moons, and the Sun, Sol. Which they call the "Cold Sun" because it's on the dark frozen side of their world.
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>>2784012
>A summary of Space Odyssey 2061
2061 follows, Floyd, the man who discovered the monolith on the moon. Only now he's much older, over 100, making a celebrity appearance to this event where they land on Haley's comet as it passes by Europa.
But then some Russian saboteurs make it crash into Europa instead. Requiring a rescue mission. Even though they were forbidden by the aliens not to land.
The Russians were really just interested in this "Mt. Zeus" that appeared on Europa. It's actually a giant diamond that was ejected from Jupiter when it became a star. They're worried about the diamond market. Lol. Well, the rescue mission was successful. However Floyd has his consciousness copied by a monolith containing David. Which, ugh, raises questions.
But anyways, David and Floyd talk about how there was life on both Jupiter and Europa, and the monoliths weight their potential and turned Jupiter into a star for Europa's sake. So while the Russians value Diamonds, these aliens valued "mind" and are essentially farming it by terraforming worlds to give life a better chance to evolve.
They conclude that one day, Earth will be weighted against the Europa.
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>>2784062
>Space Odyssey 3001
(publishing a few years before FF8) we learn that the Aliens have actually imbedded themselves into the fabric of Space Time, they've forgotten about the monoliths (or just some of them) that have just been on auto-pilot this whole time. Think the Fal'Cie.
The frozen body of the astronaut that Hal9000 killed is discovered and revived. The story follows him. Earth has Brain-Computer interfaces now, and Dinosaur servants. Wild! They send the astronaut to Europa thinking he'll be permitted to land there.
He talks with David - who is merged with Hal9000 within this Monoloth Matrix, along with other intelligences, saying that there is a giant monolith some lightyears away. They believe a message had been sent (during the 20th century wars) that Humanity has failed as a species and their days are numbered. The monoliths self replicate into a screen to block the sunlight from earth. But using David as a trojan horse, they upload a virus to destroy the monoliths. Although they also create a petabyte(1000 terrabytes) storage device to save the thought-forms within the monolith matrix, and keep it in a vault on the moon. The Monolith Makers won't determine humanity's fate until the "final days" (of the universe presumably).
Which is weird because they're embedded in space-time. So that might just mean that humans, or the human-mind at least, continued with the universe. Maybe even escaping to another space-time.
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Why is Rinoa so unpopular?
>is it because she doesn’t wear revealing clothes?
But Aeris and Yuna don’t either and they’re popular.
>is it because of her personality
Rikku and Penelo have no personalities and they have a following. You can’t claim you like a JRPG girl/waifu because of her personality and then say you like Rikku and Penelo.
>is it because of her game?
Probably. VIII gets a lot of shit lately.
And finally why does this post-plastic-surgery Rinoa (pic related) completely dominates Google image search? She looks like a different person. Is that SE’s attempt to make her look prettier?
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>>2784077
Yes, she's so unpopular. That's why Quistis appears in the Dissidia games.
OH WAIT~
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>>2784097
Spin-off games are supposed to feature the main characters of each mainline game and she is the love interest of the protagonist in VIII. That doesn’t say anything about her popularity with the fans. It also features onion knight lmao.
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>Ex-Boyfriend comes to kill you, but you don't recognize him

You forgot...

>You come back to kill you, but you don't recognize you
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>>2784170
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>>2784000
He was a lame boring regular dad but Seifer saw Laguna as a celebrity hero and a knight and Edea was a badass sorceress who made everyone dance like Micheal Jackson. And he could be her knight and be like Laguna.


>>2784012
When they're in space the music is 2001ish from the movie but I cant remember much. Lunatic Pandora is monolithish and related to the moon. It's just surface level stuff.
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>>2784281
I do believe there was a lot more to Adel. Kitase talked about his initial opening scene idea would have had a flyby of Adel's Tomb in space.

Adel was suppose to be fought at the end of Disc3 so there was a sorceress battle at the end of each disc. But she got moved to the beginning of Disc4.
You were suppose to get 40AP and a Samantha Soul from Adel as a reward - but you don't receive it because there is no result screen.

4 discs. 4 named sorceresses, Edea, Rinoa, Adel, and Ultimecia. However you fight Edea twice. Once at the parade and a second time inside Galbadia Garden. Shortly before that is when the player chooses the name Griever for Squall's ring, and afterwards Rinoa goes into a coma after inheriting Edea's powers. Or rather, some of Edea's powers.
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>>2784306
Do you even realize that you don't even reply to what people are saying?
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>>2784306
Let's suppose Rinoa became a sorceress at the end of Disc 1. She leaves the party, possessed by Ultimecia, and Edea takes her place in the party

For starters, the revelation that they all grew up in an orphanage together would happen a lot sooner. And we'd probably learn more about what was compelling Seifer. These "dreams" and Ellone's power.

I don't believe Edea would have known anything about Ultimecia or her plans to release Adel. The start of disc 3 always felt like a waterfall of exposition.
The whole "Odine Brand Bangle" thing might have been Quistis' plan (remembering Rinoa's plan) to deal with Rinoa as a sorceress.
The clue that Odine is in Esthar would have to come from the Laguna Dream sequences.
We first see Odine while Laguna is a slave working in the Lunatic Pandora. In the actual game you don't witness this until entering Esthar. But the dream sequence here doesn't make sense because at the start of Disc 3 Ellone had given up trying to change the past. Why then would she show Squall this now?
Plus if Edea is in the party, she collapses too, potentially giving Ultimecia what she wanted. But Edea is inexplicitly removed from the party.

I think Seifer along with the possessed Rinoa would have captured Ellone and the Esthar President (Laguna), hijacked the space station and released Adel themselves. I think Squall would have saved Rinoa in Laguna's body.

In the actual game, Galbadia captures Ellone from the escape pod. Seriously? There were multiple escape pods, and they somehow knew which one she'd be in, and were exactly it would land? No. I think Piet = Seifer.
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>>2784358
You mean Piet = Pete

The only problem with Seifer getting anywhere close to Ellone by himself, is that she could use her power on him at any time.
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>>2784309
Sorry. Forgot to mention that Adel's Tomb was a black monolith. Kitase showed his script in the same video he talked about Rinoa. On top of the mysterious radio interference that was implied to come from it/her. Just like the Monolith in Space Odyssey.

The thing to keep in mind is that it was just "a tomb" and the sorceresses got name changed. So instead of Adel inside, it might have been "Eternia".

Also, I should add that this room inside the Monolith is called the "Hotel Room".
So assuming FF8 was inspired by Space Odyssey. It might mean the sorceress inside was Julia. You know, because she used to perform in a hotel.
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>>2784379
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I think Adel was actually meant to be Doom Train. Yes, Doom Train!

More specifically, s/he was probably a Gigas. A recurring enemy in the FF series. One in particular is named Glasya Labolas - which is also a demon name in The Key of Solomon.
In fact Doom Train in Japanese is named, Gurasha Raborasu, (Glasya Labolas). Which explains why the Ring of Solomon is involved in Acquiring it.
And you get said ring at Tear's Point, which is where Adel falls to.

Glasya Labolas is an enemy in FF3's final dungeon, the Crystal Tower. Which is basically what is inside the Lunatic Pandora.
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>>2784393
We don't know exactly what happened to Raine, or why exactly Ellone was trying to change the past. She tells Squall that she wanted Laguna to stay with Raine and see his son.

This idea of a lost wife and son + Doom Train, is similar to Cyan in FF6 witnessing the ghosts of his wife and son boarding the ghost train. Elayne and Owain (Mina and Shun in japanese).

Perhaps what he sealed wasn't a Sorceress, but their spirits. Which could tie in with the Ghost in the Tomb of the Unknown King, who's spirit was trapped by the G.F. Brothers.

You know, when Laguna arrives at the Lunatic Pandora excavation site, he makes a strange comment. Questioning if this was the kind of rock they use for tombstones. Which might suggest that tombstones can trap ghosts.
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>>2784409
From concept art, we can see the gravestone Laguna stands over actually reads Julia Loire; not Raine.

It's weird to think that Squall and Rinoa would have the same Dad. But Luke and Leia in Star Wars ended up being brother and sister, so...

I mean, if Laguna was in space and knew Rinoa was his daughter, he would totally jump out to save her like Squall did.
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>>2784379
Ohhhh I was so confused why you were replying to me but now I get it. Do you have a picture of that it sounds really cool
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>>2784418
According to the the Debug Menu, there was suppose to be an FMV of Squall and Laguna watching the moon on Disc 2. This doesn't exist in the game, but it looks like part of it was used for promotional material and pages in the manual.

Laguna only appears in Disc 2 during the Winhill dream sequence. Other than that, Winhill is completely optional to visit.
The only other night time scene on Disc 2 is the F.H. concert. Although, Squall does have repeat dreams of himself in the rain at the orphanage. Ellone left the Garden before it reached F.H. and presumably got together with Laguna after leaving the SeeD ship. If she really wanted to show Laguna his son (assuming it really is Squall) she could have connected Laguna to Squall's past at this point in the story.

Then again, if instead he had a daughter - Rinoa - Ellone could have connected Laguna to her. Which might explain why Rinoa was in a coma. And then wakes up around the same time "The president" checks on Adel's tomb.
Rinoa was "cold" because she was connected to Laguna, who was flash frozen and shot into space with Ellone. Likewise, Ellone at the time involuntarily connects Squall and has this telepathic conversation with Squall in her sleep.
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>>2784437
In English Ellone says "her son" but in Japanese she just says "her child"
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>>2784365
Piet btw is another Star Wars reference.
Piet, Biggs, and Wedge also appear in Chrono Trigger.

I'm wondering if Nida was suppose to be spelled Needa. Because that would be another Star Wars reference.
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>>2784513
I just read a long article written in Japanese with an interesting interpretation.
In the Hyne Legend, humans are outraged after Hyne kills a child. In compensation, he gives them half his power. This is a god who created humans in the first place. Perhaps it goes without saying that he could have just revived the child or recreated it. If sorceresses are Hyne's decedents and can use time magic, then surely Hyne did too.
So perhaps Hyne's decedent really meant Hyne's Child. As in the child Hyne killed then revived.
That might tie in with the squall is dead theory.

There were a lot of points in favor of the R=U theory. You've probably head of most of them. But the one that caught my eye had to do with Ultimecia's final words.
So you get to her final form and she reintroduces herself as "Ultimecia".
Suggesting that the form you were fighting before was just a vessel for Ultimecia, with some unknown name - or Rinoa. Within this time compressed world Rinoa has yet to die or pass on her powers. So either Ultimecia is Rinoa -or- she's all the sorceresses except Rinoa.
In English she says some enigmatic words like "Reflect on your childhood"
But this article proposes that it was parroting what Rinoa said on the Ragnarok about being a child and clinging to the thing that made you feel safe. In Rinoa's case her father - and then Squall.
Ultimecia says "No matter how hard you hold on, it escapes you."

I don't think the English script maintains this very well. But after Squall saved Rinoa on Disc 1, she orders him to stay by her side. Squall later recites that order and Rinoa recognizes what he said, adding "That was the beginning" or "That was how it started". But in English I think it's been rephrased and isn't recognizable as something that was said on Disc 1.
During time compression they end up in that same room where Squall saved Rinoa. "The Beginning".
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>I just read a long article written in Japanese with an interesting interpretation.
Funny, because I distinctly remember a Japanese-speaking anon making fun of you in another thread 12 - 18 months ago on this board for misunderstanding Griever and Sorceress lifespans when you were going extremely hard pushing R=U specifically. Did you master the Japanese language in a year or so? Impressive.
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>>2784604
Remember the anon who couldn't explain how 1 person could post in these ff8 threads consecutively for days and weeks at a time without rest.

The best part was when everyone ignored you. And you were seething like "I'm the meme lord! How can this happen to me?"
Except for me. I'll respond to you because I know how much it torments you. It's worth derailing any topic to prolong your suffering.
Imagine if you wised up and left "18 months ago". Haha. Look at the retard. Classic Asperger. Can't talk about something other than itself. Don't forget to screenshot this so you can rant and rave like a homeless person in the next thread.
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>>2784525
Is there are Xu character in Star Wars?
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>>2784649
>Remember the anon who couldn't explain how 1 person could post in these ff8 threads consecutively for days and weeks at a time without rest.
That sentence doesn't make any sense. It's quite easy to observe this anon (You) posting for days and weeks on end without rest. The explanation is mental instability.

>Don't forget to take a screenshot.
This is the second time you've said this, and I see now that you've mistaken me for a different boogeyman, as I don't take screenshots. I've prodded you a few times over the past year, but this thread is the first time we've actually engaged in almost a year. Don't worry, it'll just be you talking to yourself in the next thread and the one after that, like usual. You're too far gone to change or see how bonkers you are.
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>>2776280
There's more to support it in-game than R=U
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>>2782117
It's not that hard to decipher. It's just one big commentary on fatalism.
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>>2784077
Because she takes the idiot ball and runs with it from Timber all the way to the end of the game.
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>>2784071
Actually the book says the monolith builders a.k.a. the firstborns looked like hairless humans. But then they moved their minds into machines.
>They didn't build spaceships; they were spaceships
In 3001 humans were already starting to do that.

Personally, I don't think they had an appreciation for "mind". I think they were like psychic vampires and needed minds to sustain themselves.

The Coeurl monster is actually from a scifi novel the Black Destroyer. It was an apex predator that had drained all the intelligent life on it's world. Until some astronauts showed up, and it tried to hitch a ride with them to a new world. The creature would commit suicide once captured.
It would consume "id" - as in Ego and Id.

It's a monster that's appeared since FF2. But in FF8 it was named Torama in English. Tora ma meaning Tiger Demon in Japanese. But it might also resemble "Trauma".
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>>2784674
It's easy to spot your style of post in any thread. You act like people need to talk to you and should value your opinion. It's like a big target on your back that says "Kick Me!"
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>>2784736
Every single person who's entered an FF thread on this board these past few years can concretely identify your schizophrenic ramblings at this point, whereas all you can do in return is project these delusional traits of yours on people who call you out, or let's just say, people who slip a post in between you quoting yourself and pretending to have a conversation with someone. You've legitimately wasted years of your life putting absurd amounts of effort into this shit, and all you have to show for it is having become a named schizo on a dead board on a website for social rejects.
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>>2784761
Except they're not mine.
You'd think you'd be better at evaluating people since that's all you do here.
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>>2784761
This is a board for people with in interest in rpgs. Not an interest in people who play rpgs.

I'm sorry nobody is talking to you. But you're just not that interesting. And you're probably the only person on this board that want's your recognition to mean something.
Yeah, we notice you accusing anons of posting in R=U topics. What do you expect people to say to that? No really. Tell us. I'll repeat it back to you. Maybe that'll satisfy your need for human contact. We'll make a meme of it just for you. Would you like that? The fame you deserve.
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>>2784657
Not in anything prior to FFVIII anyways.
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>>2784769
>>2784777
I'm sorry, but the only valid response here is to refer you back to the very same post you're responding to, specifically as it pertains to projection. Imagine having literally wasted years talking to yourself on this board in this manner. You know who and what you are, just as every other person who's ever entered one of your threads do. Why waste time pretending otherwise? Continue talking to yourself as you always do and will continue to do. There's no putting the batshit insane genie back in the bottle. This is your life and will continue to be your life for as long as this board is around.

These are the only kinds of interactions you actually have with other anons. Tourists may accidentally respond to you out of confusion, but you talk to yourself and only to yourself until someone calls you a schizo and you instantly spend the next few posts going back and forth with these people who are so far beneath you and who refuse to participate in your "thought experiment." Human contact? This is your human contact. These are the moments you crave when you post nonsensical post after nonsensical post and finally get a (You) from someone other than yourself.
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>>2784777
>>2784942
I enjoy the banter between schizo-kun and grumpy anon but I think these are taking the insults a little too far. Please de-escalate and let’s have light-hearted fun again.
t. Lurker
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>>2784954
On the contrary, I think this is fairly justified because schizo-kun goes and derails non-FF8 threads that I personally enjoy. It's fine if he keeps his autism within his containment thread, but it's just annoying when he just spergs out and derails other threads for reasons that only his schizo brain will understand. The least he could do is get a trip.
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>>2784701
This fits in with my theory about FF8's connection with Chrono Cross.
The main character had 2 near death experiences. And understandably traumatized by a panther attack.

I can see Squall getting attack by a Torama. Maybe getting brain damaged in the process that explains his stunted emotional intelligence.

Perhaps having his "Id" removed to make room for G.F.s is a special part of the Balamb Garden program.
Similar to how the Jedi take in children to train and suppress their emotions.
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>>2784968
I think it's unfair to make "schizo-kun" responsible for "ass-burgers" lack of impulse control.

Maybe he's derailing their train of thought, but not the thread.
I say he should put his money where his mouth is. Up his ass.
Prove that people can distinguish the schizo posts from everyone else's which, oh btw, don't exist according to him because "schizo-kun" is just one person talking to himself. How many times has he said he's never coming or just going to ignore people now. But he keeps coming back.
And he NEVER has anything to say about FF8, he only wants to talk about (((you)))

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
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>>2784970
Maybe it's something the Templars do - that is the faction under the Garden Master that don't become SeeDs.

If you've ever read into the Knights Templars, you'll come across mentions of their secret pagan rituals. Worshiping a cat or Baphomet. False confessions drawn out by torture. Things like sodomy and n-n-navel kissing.
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>>2785113
The cat thing was very rare. More commonly reported they'd pull out a disembodied head. It was probably less ritural, and more of an inoculation process for what to expect from Muslims. Couldn't have the young knights falling faint at the slightest offence. Or be bewitched by exotic brown skin boys. It was expected of the brotherhood to lend each other a hand and keep each other's secrets.
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>>2784968
As a FF8 I just want to talk about the game and am so tired of this guy. He doesn't even back up his theories with evidence. Every time I try to engage with him like I would anyone else he replies with things that aren't even related to what I posted.

Sorry FF8 Pepe Silvia dude if you are reading this but you're too much.
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FF8 started development back in 1997, right off the heels of Final Fantasy Tactics.
I believe this is why the characters were all given birthdays and the story giving the back drop of Sorceress War 1 and 2.

Squall is Virgo
Rinoa and Zell are Pisces
Selphie is Cancer
Irvine is Sagittarius
Quistis is Libra
Laguna and Seifer are Capricorn

Early in development Laguna and Seifer were the same character named "Seifer". A war journalist. In the same sense of Orlan Durai and Arazlam Durai in Final Fantasy Tactics.

Orlan is mentioned (and shown) in the database as the origin of the Triple Triad game because he carried tarot cards as fortune teller aka astrologer. Orlan had one of the most OP moves in the game, Galaxy Stop. Perhaps because he is the author of the story being told. It seems similar to Time Compression.
Although Ellone, with her power, is the one exploring the past, rather than Laguna.

I have to draw a line between FFT and FF8's final boss, Ultima/Altima and Ultimecia.

Arazlam Durai also has a quote in Vagrant Story. Mentioning how the body is just a vessel for the soul. Which is how FF8 regards sorceresses, a vessel for power.
Thamasa Soul (sometime Samantha Soul) is a reoccuring item in the series that first appeared in FF6. The town of Thamasa, remnants of mages. The Thamasa Soul item usually grants some magic related effect like No MP or Dualcast - but also a restriction on Summoning.
The unofficial backstory (an unpublished doujin) for Kefka is that he grew up in a Thamasa Orphanage. He went insane after receiving a magitek infusion (which comes from espers). The implication is that Espers and Thamasa Mages were incompatible - separate creations of the Warring Triad. Dissidia elaborates that he lost the ability to empathize.
The Esper magicite magic system was essentially the precursor to FF8's junction system. Odine is perhaps channeling something of Kefka's persona.
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>>2784984
>Prove that people can distinguish the schizo posts
Hahaha, give it a rest. Schizo-kun has a well-established posting pattern that anyone can identify. How can you be so oblivious after 2 years of this shit flooding the board?
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>>2785550
There's a dummied out conversation between Squall and Rinoa about the Magic System and how G.F.s give them magic to fight the sorceress. It's mentioned that Galbadia soldiers use a Odine "Box" device. Because junctioning a G.F. directly can be dangerous.
This is referring to G.F. amnesia because they occupy part of the brain with memory. It's possible G.F.s could occupied and inhibit other regions, such as empathy.
Its unclear if Ultimecia literally drew Griever from Squall's mind. The phrasing is suggestive.

In Chrono Cross, the magic system uses "elements". Similar to FF7's materia. However the source of these elements is explained as the FATE super computer transforming the evolved reptites from an alternate timeline. Similar to how the Mother Brain supercomputer in Chrono Trigger was turning humans into capsules. Or how Kefka and the Gestalt Empire were turning Espers into Magicite.

In FF8, it's unclear when the junction system was developed. But it's implied that in Laguna's time, they were using magic stones rather than the draw system.
Squall will say "Better check our G.F.s" while Laguna will say "Better check our gear".

In Xenogears, the magic or "ether" system was powered by the Zohars. Although Ether users didn't appear until 500 years prior to story. During the Shevat-Solaris War. That is a war between surface-dwellers and people in the floating city of Solaris. Which is VERY similar to Chrono Trigger's era of Antiquity. With Queen Zeal and other magic users lording over people on the surface who can only use magic via stones.
Ultimecia's floating Castle with giant chains is strikingly similar to the mountain of woe, chained to the ground.

In Xenogears, an event called The Diabolos Collapse (sharing the same spelling as FF8's G.F.) basically wiped out all the non-ether capable humans. This was a manipulation of human evolution.
The Zohar being a monolith - you can see the connection with Space Odyssey.
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>>2785234
cant unsee
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>>2785613
We, of course, never see this Odine Device. Or the Junction Machine Ellone.

Although I've speculated that it has something to do with the sorceress memorial. That Esthar was essentially freezing Sorceresses in carbonite, and using them as draw points or "magic" servers.
The radio interference, which was implied to come from Adel, could actually be some kind of wireless network between the Odine Devices.
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>>2785629
Adel somehow knew Ellone existed. Or at the very least that there as a girl somewhere with special powers. Which leads me to believe there was some kind of missing legend or prophecy that was cut from the story.

What we do know is that she was looking for a successor. A dummied out entry in the database states that only people capable of embodiment can be successors.
Adel was committing mass genocide as well while she was looking for a successor.
There isn't an explanation for her cruelty. But, drawing from other square games, we could infer she was culling a certain genetic trait that could potentially terminate "the succession of witches". Sorceress Candidates at this point seemed to be rare.

In Chrono Trigger, and Xenogears, the female villains ultimately want to cultivate life to power some monstrous thing. In Trigger, it was Lavos. In Xenogears it was Deus.

In FF8, the mobile gardens where planned to combine into a giant robot at some point. The developers specifically allude to Go-Getter. However its hard to imagine because at the same time, the developers say they were still imagining the gardens at giant trees.
This is likely spinning off of FF7's Gold Saucer which was also shaped like a giant tree. A remnant from it's early development that also has no in-game explanation along with the fact that Junon's Mako canon was pointed directly at it.
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>>2775247
What part of "ff8 doesn't have a single good waifu" did you not understand? Rinoa is trash, quistis is embarassing trash, selphie might have an extra chromosome. Ashe is the best ff waifu
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>>2785662
You can detect dropped plot elements in the beginning of FF8. Galbadia is fighting Timber.

When you first meet Laguna, Kiros, and Ward, they are in a Timber Forest doing...something. Some stuff is burning. I kind of assumed they were fighting Timber but it's just the 3 of them and you never see Timber Forces. I think maybe they were just burning the forest down.

In the forest owl base you can read some old issues about Vinzer Deling and Galbadia and Timber relations. It mentions Galbadia's Missiles and what Timber would do if they ever launched them, but it cuts off there.

Oh, and then there were limit breakers.

In Xenogears "limiters" are nanomachines that everyone has to limit their development - Except for Elly who never had a limiter placed on her.
Limiters were created right after the Diabolos Collapse. 1 - to suppress the memory of what happened. 2 - to keep people's powers in check since the survivors all have Ether capabilities.
Xenogear's Disc 2 was famous for it's slide-show summary of events.
At some point they try to remove limiters from the population but launching special nanomachines into the atmosphere to spread around the globe.
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>>2785727
Oh wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. I should mention that Xenogears was originally planned to be FF7. Yeah. So the Gold Saucer concept was likely connected to the mobile base "sand cruiser" Yggdrasil. You know Yggrasil, the world tree from Norse mythology. The cruiser could submerge in sand, kind of like Castle Figaro in FF6. Their ship actually combine with a larger mobile unit.
Makes me wonder if the D-Prison facility had some configuration with Galbadia Garden. Because it's controlled by Seifer, and in Xenogears the only one that knew about the buried mobile unit was Zephyr. Given all the other meteological names in FF8, it's seems Seifer should have been spelled Zephyr.

Right. So the limiters in Xenogears also prevented people from using the more powerful mechs. With the limiters gone, the Yggdrasil could combine with a larger mobile-unit-part-city to fight another city-mech.

SO. Back to dropped FF8 plot threads. Galbadia launched missiles. Timber was suppose to do something but didn't. Cid tells Squall to go to the basement. As we know, the Garden moves. But all Squall did was bang on some controls. Knowing that the Gardens were originally imagined as trees, they were likely connected to Timber. So when Galbadia launched missiles I think Timber had some fail-safe to unlock the gardens.
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>>2785729
When you think about it. A missile strike on the gardens was pretty dumb. Considering Ultimecia needs Ellone alive, and Ellone was in Balamb Garden.

It's like, did Galbadia only become aware their garden was mobile after Balamb? Or, maybe the missile launch was intended to release some locking mechanism.

Anyways. In Xenogears, after spreading the nanomachines and releasing the limiters, some people started to mutate. The Gazel Ministry called it "germinating" because...humans are all components of Deus, a planetary super weapon, which the ministry considers it's servant and invade other worlds.
You know germinating. When a seed starts to sprout.
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>>2785753
In FF7 and Dirge of Cerberus, you could say Omega Weapon was Deus and Sephiroth was meant to be it's head or driver.
But FF8 departs from these concepts after the gardens battle and you reach disc 3.

Once people started mutating in Xenogears, they followed a kind of Reunion instincts and gathered to start forming "weapons". As in WEAPON in FF7 all-caps. The mutants are all eating each other in within this system meant to perfect a bioweapon thing. Elly tries to give it her blood but it doesn't really do anything. But she help over ride their instincts. Because she saint sophia. Like Sophia in the Warring Triad.
Have I mentioned the Warring Triad and Triune Brain concept recently? I don't feel like explaining it again.

In FF8 the closest thing to a "Reunion" might be the lunar cry. Adel tries to absorb Rinoa. Adel being this unexplained entity driven by primal impulses. But the story is pretty much over that point as time compresses.

There is a dummied out entry for time compression in the database. The point was for Ultimecia to absorb the powers of sorceresses across time. The entry mentions there being multiple "presents". From developer interviews it seems Laguna was NOT Squall's father, he was from another world or timeline.

After all, if Ellone wanted to change history and keep Laguna and Raine together, why go the Galbadia Hotel with Laguna and Julia? IMO she would be aborting Squall from the timeline.
Unless there were parallel timelines, like Chrono Cross, and Squall is somehow THE Chrono Trigger.
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>>2785550
I don't believe anything you saw about early development because your posts are all insanely huge stretches and you never post sources for the early development stuff.
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>>2785593
Not that anon but your post is literally sandwiched between 2 schizo anon posts.If anyone cant see it they are either retarded or schizo-kun samefagging
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>>2785802
What's even your fucking point schizo-kun?
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>>2785985
And what are you going to do with sources?
Half of what they're talking is in the fucking manual. The other half comes from developer interviews. Which they've linked to before.

What's the matter? Don't have a screenshot of that thread? The one where ass-burger had nothing to say but "take your pill" "take your pills" for 2 months straight?
And then he wanted a time stamp because he couldn't sit through a 2 hour interview. OH yeah! And THEN he admitting he couldn't speak Japanese.
You've got nothing to fucking say. You know it. We know it.
If you want to see a samefag look in the mirror.
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>>2785987
It's the same point he's always made. The games are all made by the same people. The holes in one story can be filled in by looking at another.

He's not just filling in the cracks he's turning stones over you've never looked at. Showing you it's all cast from the same mold. And the abandoned blueprints.

Sure, to do what he's doing requires to have played every Square Enix game ever. But here he is summarizing the key points of those games so people like you can follow along.
He doesn't have explain what Yggdrasil is.
He doesn't need to explaining the obvious naming conventions. He doesn't have to extrapolate the missing data for you.
You don't have to be here at all.
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For example, I can see correspondences between FF8 and Chrono Cross.

And it's made clearer knowing that the game was suppose to start with Laguna. Laguna was named Seifer originally. He was part of a team named "Squall". So when the game jumps over to a character named Squall - the player will wonder what the connection is.
Giving the numerous Star Wars references. This "Squall" Team was just reimagined Storm Troopers.
>>
>>2786147
Look at this, December 1997.
FF8 came out in February 1999.

Most games take 3-5 years to complete. But they rolled it out in a little more than 12 months.
They HAD to be recycling more than just a few assets and concepts from other projects.

Xenogears was the proposed FF7, and had 2 years of development.
FF7 started way back in 1994, planned for the SNES before Square switched to Playstation CD-ROMS. But even with that switch it was 3 years.

IX got 2 years of development
X got 3.

At the time FF12 had the record for longest game development time of 5 years. But then FF13 took 5 years too. Planned for the ps2, switched to the ps3. The art director said they could make another game with all the content they cut.

FF8 deserves a remake. Or a spin off. A novella. A manga. Something! The neglect is criminal.
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We shall now speak only in FF8 Doujin Titles
Press X to "Continue"
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>>2786147
I was going to read them.

I don't have a FF8 manual and didn't know it was in that because you never told me and I didn't know what interviews or where to read them because I don't read every single one of your posts and didn't know you linked them. I can't read Japanese.

I have no idea what you even are talking about after this. I haven't seen your posts before this once for way longer than 2 months. Maybe a year but you are just that annoying. If I did I left the threads because you ruined them and I forgot.

I'm also not that anon.

You post all the time but I can't even tell what your theories are.
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>>2786368
>He ruined his own thread because you're not around
You guys are pathetic. Read a wiki. Check out the cutting room floor.
>I can't understand
And nobody needs you to. This isn't reddit. Nobody is posting here for upvotes or karma or likes.
And how do you think the rest of us feel when we have to wade through your self-important shitposts. That's right. You don't think. Get off the stage. This ain't the youtube comment section. Lurk more.
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>>2786156
Except a lot of it requires giant leaps of logic that make little sense.
>>
FFVIII (released 1999) is a reimagining of Harry Potter (first book released in 1997) except in a mercenary school
>dark haired orphan protagonist with scar on face
>both the 'Chosen one'
>snarky blond rival
>villain who possesses / uses the body of others (see: Prof Quirrell)
>doting headmaster who favours the protagonist
>first expedition into the unknown is via train
>>
>>2776238
That game looks the closest to FF7's graphical style that I've seen. Very nostalgic.
>>
>>2786545
Like the anons that "appreciate" Selphie but they don't explain why or post their sources.
Not only do they expect us to believe them, they want us to care.
>>
>>2786558
The Tomb of the Unknown King is actually called
The Tomb of the Unnamed King in Japanese.

In theory you could draw 100 avada kedavra spells from He-who-must-not-be-named.
But since enemies level up with your party, by the time you fight him the spell will be replaced with avada kedavraga, and junctioning that is an instant game over.
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>>2786604
-ra spells don't retain the suffix when they become -ga, anon.
It's obviously avada kedavga
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>>2786616
ラ and ガ is not the King's English.
-10pts from Hufflepuff for talking to the instructor during your field exam.
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>>2786599
I love Selphie because she loves trains.
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>>2786386
Even this post doesn't make sense and comes across as a non sequiter.

You ruined previousthreads because of your offtopic posts not because I wasn't active in them. I never said anything more. Now you're resorting to insults because you're personally offended by me questioning and criticizing you. Why would I read a wiki or TCRF when I don't even know what your hypothesis is and by your own admission you don't have one you are just 'turning over the stones'. What does me not understanding Japanese have to do with Reddit upvotes and social media clout? I wouldn't need to understand Japanese if you could just explain yourself. Wait did you just cut off my post halfway through and change the context to say i didn't understand in general? And I'm still not the anon you think I am I have never . The burden of proif is on you and I don't even know what you're trying to prove. If it's just an analysis then it's a real bad one.
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>>2786679
never insulted you*
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>>2786679
Schizo's completely insane. Don't bother.
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>>2786702
Oh god he really is just talking to himself on posts like this right?

>>2775345
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Ah hem. I said from now on we only speak in Doujin titles.
Maybe you need a "Private Lesson"
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>>2786702
Don't let their "Fake Mania" act get to you.
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>>2786679
Literature is not mathematics. It's not about "2 + 1"
You just suppose the rules are true, then reapply them.
It's like your erectile dysfunction; it's not that hard.
>>
>>2785753
Seeds only come from "flower"ing plants. It's hard to imagine, but these types of plants actually evolved after mammals.

Before flowers, everything was ferns and spores.
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>>2787005
There is evidence that the Centra Civilization came to the planet on a seed ship. It goes along with Xenogears and FF7's setting. In Xenogears, a colony ship crashed on the planet, then it was repurposed to make the Tower of "Babel" as well as other city/forts like Yggdrasil and Fort Hurricane (in the same vein as the cyclone fortress in ff2 or the Bahamut in FF12)
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>>2787011
In FF7, Gold Saucer resembled a tree.
While in Xenogears, inside the remnants of the colony ship was a supercomputer named Razael's Tree.

Xenosaga was not made by Square and was only a spiritual successor to Xenogears. A "love letter" if you like. It still carried the same motifs. Like the organization called Ormus, their emblem includes a tree as well.
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>>2787015
>>2787011
>>2787005
>>2787003
>>2786995
>>2786992
HELP THE SCHIZO JUNCTIONED WITH HENTAI
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>>2787015
In FF9, you "Encounter" the Evil Forest at the start of the game. When defeated, the monsters release spores (not seeds). Without treatment it's implied that Garnet, Steiner, and Vivi would have died or mutated.

This might suggest that the Evil Forest was native to Gaia, while the Iifa Tree, we know, came from Terra. Although the evil forest mass petrification isn't explained the idea might have been that dinosaur (or dragon) fossils, like the ones in Fossil Roo, were not ancient at all. Just dormant Terra life to waiting to be revived.

In FF12, the dragons have a symbiotic relationship with the forest. They don't die, so much as their corpse becomes the forest. I can't say what comes after that. Like, if Dragon Eggs are really seeds?
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>>2787031
not all doujin is made to satisfy your "anal fantasy"
>>
Why the fuck does e-hentai have 2 "Official Strategy Guides" anyways?
They're not hentai. They were licensed by Square, not made by Square. And they're not even accurate!
The only people who are going to buy the guides are people with the game. But the guides were written like they're marketing to people who have never played it. Like people just stand around in bookstores and thumb through strategy guides to games they don't own or never played?

Like, it takes about "War, and Galbadia invading other countries" but that's not really an accurate summary of events. I mean, yeah, when they hit Trabia with a missile strike, you can imagine it as an act of war. Trabia likely would have retaliated. But Trabia as a country, as a concept, barely exists.
>>
>>2787104
This comes up in just about every FF8 thread. But Trabia was suppose to have a Capital/Castle. As well as an unknown town that was invaded by Esthar around the crater region.

The popular opinion is that Ultimecia's Castle IS Trabia castle. But rather than trying to explain it in the narrative, I personally just think the final dungeon was hobbled together from scraps. Part of it may be Trabia Castle. Part of it may be the insides of Winhill Manor.
I believe the art gallery was part of Caraway Mansion, or perhaps the OTHER Mansion next to it, only seen on the world map.

Ultimecia might not have been the final boss at all, but maybe Hyne. And perhaps, like Hyne in FF3, he transformed the Living Woods into his castle. You'll notice some areas in her castle have morphed architecture as if it's been transformed.
>>
>>2787165
Bros I want a FFVIII 2 /Compilation of VIII so bad
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>>2787361
According to the gaming intelligence agency, Square prepared a digital presskit just before the Tokyo Game Show in Spring '99, for Final Fantasy Gaiden. Which appeared to follow Seifer and his gang after the events of FF8.
It never showed up. Perhaps it was a hoax.

What Square DID show at the '99 TGS was a PS2 tech demo, recreating Squall and Rinoa's dancing scene.
This ballroom doesn't exist outside the FMV in the game. They even show that mysterious statue in the back, but you never see a full view of it.

They also started showcasing The Bouncer. So I wonder if the story was in anyway adapted from FFGaiden.
>>
I’m disappointed that I false flagged as Schizo Anon at one time ITT and nobody noticed the difference. Can anyone tell which posts are genuinely by Schizo Anon and which ones are fake?
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>>2788202
I just noticed that at least one other person also flagged as Schizo Anon — and not in a subtle way — further muddling the waters. Damn, mine was far subtler.
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>>2788157
I replayed a little bit of the Bouncer this morning. I can kind of see that how it might have been set at Dollet at first, then they hop a train. Then maybe go to F.H. or one of the Gardens.

But the Bouncer's story is pretty fragmented too because it's more of a fighting game than an RPG.

Of course the big secret is the Girl that gets kidnapped is actually a cyborg or something. So I was thinking Ellone IS the J.M.E.
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>>2788433
>Julia got turned into a panther bionoid
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>>2788437
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>>2788433
I dunno. It says 2-discs. So this might have revealed the Laguna story that was cut.

I kinda wonder what happened to Galbadia afterwards. I mean Deling is dead. So would it still be called Deling City or the proper Galbadia? Is Seifer still in charge?
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>>2788470
Did Timber get their independence?!
>>
SneeD
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>>2788433
What's the story of The Bouncer like?
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>>2788619
It's short because it plays like a fighting game. You pick story mode and you progress through different stages starting at a Bar, then moving to a train station, then some kind of H.Q. then into space. The scenes change slightly depending on who you pick.

Basically a girl get's kidnapped by some group, so "The Bouncers" go rescue her. I guess you can think of the bad guys as Shinra. It's hard to get a feel for the kind technology this setting has. They've got Trains, Robots, Space Satellites. They mention guns but nobody uses them. Everyone has some kind of connection to everyone.
Basically the kidnapped girl is the sister to be this Rufus Shinra type character - he is named Dauragon. Only his real sister died from some unnamed illness. The girl is actually a robot, and is some unnamed component to this satellite with a laser. Which Dauragon uses to blow up a hospital that refused to treat his sister. The details are really fuzzy. The girl ran away which is why they're after her. The ending implies she doesn't know she's a robot (it doesn't make sense.)

It's a dumb story because you can't stop Dauragon from blowing up the hospital. You can't stop his launch into space (even though you can detached the train carrying the rocket fuel or let it blow up).
Along with fuzzy medical-science, there's a "Bionoid" character that can shapeshift into a panther. One of the Bouncers knows her but they don't really explain their relationship, he thought she was dead.
Then there's this psycho in leather leading all the other henchmen in leather. They don't explain what his problem is either, some kind of "enhancement".
That seems to be what this group does. Some kind of mad-science experimental surgery.
During loading screens you can read dialogue from the characters' past, but sometimes it's too fast to read.
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>>2788202
I can't tell anymore you're all turning me schizo.
>>
Schizo anon has created this cult of personality where everyone now wants to associate some made up monkey shit to Square's constant concept re-use from game to game. It's made having a FF8 thread impossible or even 'sensible' speculation on the games a fucking chore. I wish I could inflict physical harm on schizo-anon and everyone who emulates him. Isn't the easier theorycrafting found in FFX and 7's connection anyways? Give those threads a try for a few months you fucking mook.
>>
>>2788674
Once you start putting the pieces together of how the characters are connected, you'll notice holes and inconsistencies. The wiki fills in some, but I'm not sure where they got their information from.

Like how long they've been working at the bar. In one place it says Kou is the newest bouncer, and secretly he's on assignment to watch the girl. So he should know she's a robot? But in another scene, it's suggested that Sion is the newest bouncer. And they've all known each other for at least a year. Kou is part of some group called "Lukis". It get's named dropped once and never expanded on. Idk, maybe there's something in the manual, but my used copy didn't come with a manual. The wiki says they're investigators.

At the beginning of the game, there's a news story about the Satellite. It's converts sunlight into microwaves beamed down to earth and converted to electricity. There's one in space already, on the news they announce the launch of a 2nd satellite. (But there's only one).
In one cutscene they mention the control center has blown up (idk if they're talking about the train crash or not). This not-shinra building is confusing. It's like a train station + shopping mall + NASA + aircraft hanger

So they end up on this shuttle called the Galeos. It's flying towards the satellite. But on the way there the bad guys used it to blow up the hospital. You defeat the bad guys. But they can't control the shuttle and it's on a collision course with the satellite. What was the point for flying towards the satellite if they didn't need to be on it to use it?

The ending scene mentions, without the satellite, Robogirl is back to her old self. But she didn't ...change? There was cutscene were she went turbo, fought off a bunch of androids by herself, and then passed out for the rest of the game.
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>>2786644
Pretty sure Avada Kedavra ain't the King's English to begin with.
In fact, all of these "spells" seem to be in some sort of demon tongue. As HRRM King Charles III appointed representative on 4chan, I'll see to it that you're all hanged.
>>
>>2788157
>the ballroom
Where would it be physically located in respect to the rest of Balamb Garden?
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>>2788674
I remember there was a boss fight against a girl called Echidna on top of a train?
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>>2788743
If anything The Bouncer was probably an adapted sequel to FF7. With Dauragon and his panther assistant resembling Rufus Shinra and his dog thing.

In The Bouncer, the town they start at is called "Edge" which happens to also be the name of the town replacing Midgard in FF7 after it's destroyed by meteor fall.

The main difference between Dauragon and Rufus is that Dauragon was adopted and inherited his corporation or whatever it's suppose to be.

After playing the story mode for a 3rd time, Dauragon has an extra phase, where he rips off his shirt and a dragon tattoo magically appears on his back - but this is never explained.
His personality shifts, sort of. He doesn't care about his plans anymore, all he wants to do is fight. This might be similar to the enhancement and mental instability the leather henchman had - although we never see a tattoo on him.
This might also have something to do with how he was raised. I mean, there's that asian-parent stereotype where they demand excellence in everything. But perhaps it was a discipline requirement to acquiring this tattoo?

If it were adapted from FF8, perhaps this was some kind of G.F. ?
Although FF7 also had Tifa's teacher, Zangan, who never got developed. Perhaps Rufus was also one of Zangan's pupils.
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>>2788749
It's around the Quad. You can tell where they are in the final balcony scene as the camera moves away and shows the whole garden.
>>
>>2788769
Seifer's "no mercy" limit break doesn't use a fire magic but "Chi"

So there's some unspoken martial arts thing going on.
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>>2788784
Amarant in FF9 is a monk/ninja class. He also has shares the "No Mercy" ability with Seifer.
But in Japanese instead of No Mercy it's named 雑魚散らし
which translates to Scattering Small Fish. Or something like Small Fry Disposal. Which might have something to do with him fishing in the ending credits.

In Amarant's case, the No Mercy skill takes on the Element of his equipped weapon.

Seifer's weapon is called Hyperion; that's a Titan associated with the sun or sunrise. So perhaps the Fire Element came from his Gunblade? You can't upgrade Seifer's weapon. But supposing you could it might have also changed the No Mercy element.
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Pretty obvious that the Bouncer has the same concept artists as FF8, not just the character art but the environment and objects too.

The dog is unnamed but in concept art it's written "Angelo" Were they just recycling FF8's concept art?

They apparently had enough to sell an artbook, also a strategy guide for some reason. That might be where the wiki is getting it's information from.

I found some storyboards too. Apparently the G in G-Forces stands for Gidoh or Gidou, when means devil, brute, or a type of fish you didn't want to catch.
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>>2788769
Rufus is the one thing i'm looking forward to in part two since i wanna know why he could see the time jannies. My money's on him been infused with actual cetra cells unlike sephiroth who got the Thing's cells
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>>2788855
And, ok, the Not-Shinra building I was talking about. It's actually suppose to be an "Aqua City"
*cough* F.H. *cough*
An artificial island made of 3 towers.
It's connected to the city of Edge by train. And it get's it's power from this solar satellite. Why? I don't know.

The whole game takes place at night. But maybe it's a fantasy planet, and this city is in perpetual night or always cloudy. So solar power via satellite somehow makes more sense.

If this is recycled from FF8, if could be related to that Triangle symbol with Bahamut and the Deep Sea Research Facility. Maybe before Galbadia took over Dollet and Timber, it existed as just the Battleship Island.

I'm still looking for an answer. But at the start of the Bouncer it's snowing and Volt comments that it's strange weather for spring. But the story didn't go anywhere with that.
I'm thinking there was a script change. Maybe the satellite started out as a weather control device.
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>>2788902
There is a hanging garden there between the towers, and in the middle is a dome. In the game this is where the party split happen. Because you fight Dauragon and his panther-lady, and then he pulls the old trap door trick on them.

Not only do they all end up in different places, they end up in different towers - allegedly.

There's one with the shopping center, one with the rocket launch facility. And the third is a mystery to the public, but it's their robot factory and stuff.
The 3 towers are supposed to be named after the 3 Imperial Treasures. The sword, mirror, and jewel.
>>
>>2770792
And you were beneath all of their notices
>>
>>2770792
>She's such a basic bitch
He doesn’t know
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>>2788855
Can you post a link to the Bouncer artbook? I love those crazy designs
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>>2788902
>it's strange weather for spring
I figured it out last night. It's a Japanese idiom for when Spring arrives. 3 days cold, 4 days warm. "Sankan Sion". That's is, it's Spring when you have 3 cold days followed by 4 warm days.
Of course Sion is also the name of one of the Bouncers.
In that scene, Domonique asks if Sion is here. Volt says "yes...", then looks up at the sky and says "...but spring isn't"

Sion is suppose to be depressed, suicidal, and heartless. Because his master disappeared, and then his (implied) girlfriend, Kaldea, died. He got her dog tags as a present once. They don't say how she died, just that she was in an accident working as an intern for the Mikado group. It's hard to say if she actually died or not. Obviously they turned her into a bionoid, but she retains some memories of Sion. The documents says this aged her cells by 10 years, but they also mention cloning. And this experiment with Kaldea was somehow put into Domonique to make her more human. Reading between the lines, I think Domonique's feelings for Sion came from Kaldea in the first place. Domonique gives Sion dog tags as a present too.

Nomura says he was working on a lot of other projects simultaneously, and a lot of his designs were not approved by dreamfactory for the bouncer. Sora in Kingdom Hearts is based off of Sion. Hayner, Pence, and Olette are probably also designed off of unapproved Bouncer Concepts. And while Diz, in KH2, doesn't explain why he was researching "the mysteries of the heart" you can probably bet it had something to do with AI, and the "blanks"

It's funny to imagine Rinoa as a robot or clone.
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>>2789317
sion is literally the kh main character huh
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>>2789317
There's speculation that the playable characters of the bouncer were suppose to be based on the Chinese Zodiac. But ultimately they're 1 short of 12. And Kaldea's panther morph kind of ruins it.
Although I haven't seen the panther form in any concept art, so it might have been a last minute addition.

Sion is the Dog
Kou is the Tiger
Volt is the Goat
Dauragon is the Dragon
Echidna is the Snake.

Mugetsu is probably the rabbit.

Meaning Wong, Dominique, Leann, PD4, and Kaldea would have to be Pig, Rooster, Rat, Ox, Horse, or Monkey.

The missing 12th character was probably Master Mikato which we never see outside of a blurry flashback (but he basically looks like Dauragon). Volt was framed for his "assassination" but nobody came after him, which I think says Mikato was secretly alive.
It's possible Kaldea was meant to be the tiger (I can't imagine her morphing into anything else) so Kou might have been something else initially.

PD-4 has no story. But I think he might have been a clone of the original Dauragon, and Mikato was just grooming him to be his new body. All it says is that the PD series had an unexpected side effect which prompted them to experiment on Kaldea.

Towards the end, there is an optional scene were Kaldea reunites with Sion. But then Dauragon...stabs her in the back..with...his chain...somehow? It would make more sense if this was PD-4 who has an extendable arm with pointy fingers. It's a strange scene because Dauragon just shows up randomly, kills her saying "I don't need her sympathy".
Then he's back in the control room blowing up a hospital because they weren't sympathetic enough...*scratches head*
If Kaldea doesn't die here, she'll die (presumably) while they're escaping the shuttle crash. She'll pushed Sion and Dominique through a door before it closes.
It's stupid because all thought the game we see her panther morph phasing through doors! But she doesn't here.
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>>2789406
I've sometimes pondered if Edea (who also phases through matter) was meant to be Julia.
>>
A lot of the bars in FF8 are named.
Dollet has the "Shining Bomber". If you explore the card player's room, you learn that he played against Laguna in the past at some point. You'll also find an expired discount coupon for a drink at the Amphora Pub. Which is in Timber. Which might have came from Laguna as well. The expiration date is oddly specific.

The Amphora Pub also has card players. There's also a screen of a woman's face morphing into a tiger.
If there was ever a "Dog Street" somewhere in FF8, it would have to be Timber. Since that's where the pet store is, and where you meet Rinoa and Angelo. Also Timber uses the same fontface as the Bouncer.

In Deling City, the bar in the hotel isn't explicitly named. But at the Train Station there are posters for the Coffee Moon Bar, in concept art it just says "Coffee Shop". I've mentioned before, its strange Laguna jumps from the Timber Forests to Deling City. And even though this is the first time Squall and the other were connected to Laguna, there's a line that suggests they've been connected before. I've also pointed out that Deling City in the past has different banners, not Galbadia's emblem. Plus Deling City has more trees then Timber. So perhaps Deling City and Timber were switched around at somepoint in development.
Like, rather than a hotel bar, Julia may have been performing at the TV Station, or maybe it was an Opera House in the past.
>>
According to the Ultimania Guide. Deling City is perpetually cloudy and only gets a few days of sunshine a year. It's interesting that it's not ever raining there. According to the Prototype World Map, it says the Trabia region was suppose to be cloudy.

We only see it raining at the orphanage in Squall's memories. And Laguna falls in love with a woman named Raine.

In FF6, there's the town of Zozo where it raining. Ramuh is at the top of a highrise caring for Terra. I think KH2's "World that never was" is also imagined in the same vein as this. Zozo's theme music (slam shuffle) seems to use the Pink Panther tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptef8e_ZGic

In other games, Ramuh is accompanied with forests and trees. In FF11, for example his Crystal is inside the Boyahda Tree. Although FF8 replaced Ramuh with Quezacotl. Which is more or a rainforest feathered serpent thing.
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>>2789510
>Quezacotl
There's been theories about where you might have obtained Quezacotl if it wasn't just given to you from the start of the game.

It's crazy that all the G.F.s you fight have spoken lines.
Ifrit, Diabolos, The Brothers, Cerberus, Odin, Gilgamesh.
And they're used to fight sorceresses, but they they don't have bigger plot relevance.

In the French version, Quezacotl is named Golgotha. Which was the place of Jesus' execution. It's also similar to Final Fantasy Tactics Golgollada Gallows, which was to alleged execution site of St Ajora.
But it's still such a jump. What was the French reasoning for this?
Adding to this, "Thunderstorm" is changed to "feu purificateur" like to be burned at the stake I guess?

Apparently it's a redesign of the "Perfect Being" in Parasite Eve. Idk have to look for French Translations to see what they named it, but I'm willing to bet it's connected to that.

Parasite Eve btw also begins in an Opera House. The actress on stage is playing a character named Eva who the king forbids to marry the prince because everyone around her dies. He orders her to be burned at the stake. At that point, the actress notices the MC in audience and everyone starts to spontaneously combust. Something to do with mitochondria. The "perfect being" would be some kind of mitochondria enty with the ability to rapidly evolve by rewriting it's own DNA.

Xenogears naturally has a lot of biblical references, including a crucifixion site called Golgotha, although it's spelled Golgoda.

ANYWAYS, Perhaps Quezacotl was meant to be Laguna's G.F. which he used or acquired while burning the Timber Forest.
>>
>>2789600
Perhaps "electrocution" is in bad taste or too harsh for French people. So they softened it to a different kind of capital punishment.

When in the Timber Forests, Kiros asks why they're fighting animals and not Timber Forces. IMO, I think they just committed moogle genocide.
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Why does this retarded faggot keep posting?
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>>2789205
R=U makes FFVIII objectively worse, I don't know why people push for it.
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>>2770094
>Bestgirl Quistis
I genuinely don't understand how anyone can shit on anything Rinoa does while being a Quistis fan, when Quistis (who is trained and hired for her job) ditches her role to go give an apology. it's by far the stupidest thing anyone does in the whole game.
>>
>>2789678
I've genuinely never understood it either and when you question people they just give some vague nonsense about how it "makes the story more interesting".
>>
>>2789709
>understand this for me
Have you tried chewing your own food?
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>>2789758
So you can't answer him. There is no food to chew.
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>>2771456
>the themes as presented are good enough

the translation was too dogshit to get any of the character development across
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>>2789813
>its not an answer if i can't understand it
That's called a learning disability.
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I was studying the Japanese Transcript last night.
I thought Esthar Soliders were only called "Terminators" in the artbook, but that's what they're called in Japanese.

Laguna's summary of events after rescuing Ellone is just as brief.
Raine Died.
Ellone went to the Orphanage.

Only, in Japanese, Laguna mentions Cid and Edea put her on a boat - which was the real orphanage. Which is why he never found her. And that's how she lived for the past 10 years.

It actually makes sense that the White SeeD ship is the orphanage. Because who's going to sail to Bone Fuck Nowhere to adopt a kid? Of course they'd moved around. It's like the United State's Orphan Train.

In the Japanese script they don't call Edea's House the orphanage. It's just a "Stone House" they all remember. Which was part of Centra.
That's the confusing part. There is a ancient and modern Centra. But there's still continuity errors. I think.

The differences between Edea's House Past and Present seems to have been caused by the Lunatic Pandora. Laguna says the #1 reason they dropped the Lunatic Pandora into the ocean was so that "what happened the Centra wouldn't happen again". The big Centra Crater where Esthar excavated the Crystal Pillar was ancient history. And as far as we know, it was a natural phenomenon. So dropping the pillar in the ocean doesn't sound like it's preventing anything.
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>>2790205
Although, in the ending scene, the Orphanage is still in good condition. And that was years later.

We know that the Gardens originated from Centra. This too was ancient history. After Centra was destroyed by a lunar cry the survivors took mobile shelters and created Dollet and Esthar. I believe that's Galbadia and Trabia Gardens.

This was known as the "Shelter Era"

NPCs in F.H. recall renovating Balamb Garden. Which seems to suggest that Balamb Garden (or part of it) was still on Centra up until 10 years ago. The problem is that, in English, Cid acts like he had no idea the Garden could move. He knew. It was a Shelter from the "Shelter Era" it's part of their history. He gave Squall a key to the MD level to do...~something. Cid must have known, but was written in a way to surprise the player.
We could reason that Cid was just uncertain if the Garden in it's current state could still move.
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>>2790242
cid was a punk bitch but also
>10 years ago
would mean that most of the main cast would also know (except amnesia)
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>Let's drop a 3 mile high monolith into the ocean, what's the worst that can happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCJ2ycPFOLo
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>>2790266
the best possible president
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>>2790256
Yes. When you get to talk to Laguna in Esthar and ask about Raine.
In English, Laguna says it's too much to remember.
like "too hard to remember", as in painful?

But in Japanese, it's more like it's hard to remember because the memories are fading or there weren't that many memories in the first place. Suggesting that Laguna might also have G.F. amnesia.

I mean, he is married. He's got a ring on his finger. He couldn't have completely forgotten.

But that's another crack in the continuity. Because it's hinted that Rain and Laguna founded SeeD. And their salute is showing each other their rings. The White SeeDs mention that Edea told them the salute hasn't changed since it was created. Which is a weird thing to say when SeeD has barely been around for 10 years.

So it's barely been a Generation. But Zell talks about joining SeeD to be like his Grandpa. Which suggests SeeD outdates the Gardens. Or just that the scenario changed at some point during development.

On top of the fact that Cid mentions how the Gardens "changed" into this mercenary organization. I think Cid was only responsible for Balamb Garden.
Galbadia Garden was always a military academy. Galbadia's headmaster was a subordinant of Norg. So when Cid was creating a new garden, Norg tried to make it like Galbadia.
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>>2790266
I giggled.
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"Oh, and Squall, I forgot to give you this. It's a cursed item..."
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Rinoa isn't Ultimecia she and Squall founded Eden Garden and sent it back in time to help their past selves and we need a sequel about Sorceress Rinoa and Captain Leonhart going on Captain Harlock Star Trek Gundam assed space adventures.

And Angelo had lots of puppies.
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>>2790307
You probably knew this but Kitase did say there were a lot of cuts recently when the HD version came out. Especially for Laguna's story. He was basically going to be a second protagonist I think?
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>>2790395
he still is kind of a second protagonist
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>>2790329
Here's another interesting French Translation

Magic Lamp > Diabolos > Dark Messenger
in French it's
Aladore > Nosferatu > Carpathes Knight

So in French, Diabolos isn't an evil djinn he's Dracula. Or a vampire. The Carpathian Mountains are around Transylvania. Coincidently the area outside Balamb Garden is called Alucard Plains.
Aladore is apparently a ring item, not a lamp. Although nobody knows where the name "aladore" comes from. When Squall receives it he says "Aladore..." like it means something to him.

Bram Stoker's Dracula was inspired by the story of The Carpathian Castle. Hearing rumors about a devil or something in the castle. The MC visits the castle and discovers an old romantic rival. The woman they were both after had allegedly died. But he hears her voice and sees her in the window. The idea being that she's been brought back from the dead. Long story short it was just a projection and a recording of her singing.

The sorceress enemies you fight during time compression are called "Nécromancienne". Necromancers.

Griever is called Cronos.

>>2789603
Quistis' Blue Magic "Electrocute" is "Firmament" in French.
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>>2771035
In French, Norg's Pod was called "Odyssey"
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The French versions is just as prone to misspellings as the English version.
For example Bite Bugs are called Elmidea but probably should be Elmidae.

So Aladore could be a mutation of anything. Maybe the "L" should be an "R"
Maybe there was meant to be a space. Ara doré? A golden macaw? Doesn't make sense for Diabolos, but maybe Quezacotl.
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>>2790547
There is the question of how involved the translators are during development.
Like in FF7, there's a reference to Xenogears when Cloud has Mako Sickness. But since Xenogears and FF7 were being developed at the same time, can you really blame the translator for writing Zeno Gias?

And you have to wonder what order they made things in. Like the FMV for the Mideel area doesn't match the FMVs in other parts of the game. Was it a rush job or was it made early in development and they didn't go back to polish it up?
>>
>>2790547
In FFV the Magic Lamp is a battle item with a Summon Effect. It calls summons in descending order of power every time it's used, until after summoning the weakest "Chocobo" it'll only summon "Eggman" a kind of hidden/joke summon which does nothing.
The Magic Lamp can be recharged at Istory Falls or the Great Trench.

Perhaps the Magic Lamp in FF8 had a similar purpose. I'll add that "Fuel" in the French version is called "Essence".
We know the Junction System was developed by Odine, so it's possible in Laguna's Era you were meant to used Magic Stones and this Magic Lamp, rather than the junction system.
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>>2790586
Hmmm. I'd bring up FF11, but it's such a mess right now I don't want to touch it.
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>>2790586
>>2790547
>>2790511

why do the Frogs matter?
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>>2790648
>the question of how involved the translators are during development.
rather than after. Meaning their translation could be based off an earlier concept which got changed, but then not updated.

A Macaw sounds crazy, but there's precedence for it within final fantasy.
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I didn't notice this the other day.

Not only is Quezacotl called Golgotha
But the item Phoenix Pinion, which summons the Phoenix are also called Golgotha.

So "feu purificateur" makes sense that if Quezacotl got mixed up with Phoenix.
Except the Phoenix summon attack is called "Terre Brulée" burnt earth.

Golgotha makes sense in the Christian sense of resurrection. Perhaps early in development Phoenix had a different summon animation that got reworked into Quezacotl.

In the French version, you don't go to the fire cavern to get a "low-level G.F." instead you go to the "Sulfur Mine to get an important Element".
It reads like an early prototype. Like, On top of the other tutorials in the beginning they were going to teach you how to revive characters.
>>
>>2790693
With the plot revolving around "Witches",
burning them seems like a natural course the plot didn't take, surprisingly.

Of course there's the Wizard of Oz inspiration too. That witch melted from water.

In the end, we didn't see that many witches. Or learn what the Witch War 1 and WW2 involved.
>>
I've often wondered were they were going with the President Deling's Undead Double. And the announcement that Seifer had been executed.

Seeing how the sorceresses are called necromancers in the french version, that's a lot of evidence to suggest that the French translation was closer or more involved with early development.
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>>2790648
Laguna Loire
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Keep in mind that Laguna was originally named Seifer.
The idea of a "french" author with amnesia could have spun off of the sound-novel in Final Fantasy Tactics.
Titled: Oeilvert.
Meaning "Green Eyes".

The sound-novels never appeared in any English Versions of the game.

Oeilvert is about a female assassin. Codename: Green Eyes. She's monitoring this man to find out what he knows, and possibly kill him.
The man was formerly a martial artist. Maybe a "Monk". But the sound-novels didn't have character portraits.
Perhaps Amarant sharing Seifer's "No Mercy" ability was no coincidence.

Anyways, this man, Pablo, now has amnesia and is writing a bunch of different stories. It's a complex read. It's suggested that the stories he's writing are his memories surfacing.
You're reading from Oeilvert's perspective, reading a fictional character which is based off an alias she used to date then murder his friend. Pablo is conflicted because he's in love with her, but on some other side of his heart he hates her.
The crazy part is that this is a story within a story within a story...and it's possibly a part of Ivalice history because the characters in this sound-novel are connected to characters in other sound-novels, and there's annotations by the fictional authors about who they based the characters off of and so forth.
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>>2790764
Oeilvert

You might recognize the name as the No-magic dungeon in FF9's Forgotten Continent.
Note the Spiral design.

The Al Bhed of FFX have Green Eyes and with Spiral pupils. It's reveals in the FFX-2.5 novella that they were an artifical race. Genetically engineered (for lack of a better word) to not be able to use magic.
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>>2790766
In the sound novel, the assassins refer to Pablo as "the dog".
In one of Pablo's short stories - I think it was "The Annuals of the Hassell Clan" - it's about aliens if I recall correctly. They were in conflict with another Clan. I don't remember what their name was, but it was pun-ny. Carrying on the conflict was too much of a hassle for the Hassell Clan, so they merged with the "Sorii" clan -- I think that's what they were call. Adopting their name. So the joke is "I'm Sorii" as in "Sorry".
And they stopped fighting.

I don't think Pablo was secretly an alien. But Oeilvert was implied to be part of this Nobel family, and everything she's doing is for them. There were political motivations, but I won't go into that now.

The Pupu in FF8 have spiral eyes.
The "Angelo" mascot for Dog Street, in The Bouncer, has spiral eyes in some concept art.
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>>2790791
In FFX the Al Bhed race were originally called Bedohls. They were technologically advanced and could make convincing androids of themselves.

The plot of The Bouncer also involves androids. But the world building is kind of shaky with a contrived revenge plot. It's like "Lets make a robot resemble my dead sister"
"Lets also connect her to this death ray/ solar power generator satellite thing."

In FF8, The Esthar Soliders are androids. And it's kind of implied that the Centra Civilization was more advanced than Esthar was.
When Centra was destoried it split into Dollet and Esthar.
Dollet in Japanese is just "Doll". It was a "Doll" empire.
I think the implication is that one side were mechanics and the other side were mages.

FF14 reimagines these ideas. And keep in mind when it touches on ivalice stuff - it's a different continuity.
So. The Bedohls Mutation is a genetic trait carried over from decendents of the Clockwork City of Goug. They had no aether control so the built machines. However their science ended up blowing up a giant hole in the ocean. Implied to be the Ridorana Cataract seen in FF12, but like I said this is a different continuity. FF14 looks at the Ivalice timeline and kind of reverses it.

The Goug survivors migrated and got mixed with the the Garleans Empire. Idk, if that's why/how reason Garlean ended up making magitech and no magic. Technically the Garleans are a nation not a race. So, they have these Al Bheds, but also Imperians with a "third eye" type organ that just gives them "spatial recognition"
There was also a nomatic people called the Eschva, which the Garleans tolerated as long as their strongest enlisted in their armies. I don't think they were a race, but maybe a sort of beast master culture? Idk. I'm getting side-tracked...I forgot where I was going with this...
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>>2790828
Oh right. The third eye thing.
In Oeilvert, one of Pablo's short stories mentions a man with a special ability to see the entire battle field. I forget how exactly it was worded. But I interpreted it as a kind of "overview" or "Third Person Perspective". The story didn't go anywhere because Oeilvert stopped reading it, I think commenting how different it was from everything else Pablo written.

I didn't think much about it at the time. But it might have been a clue that Pablo had a similar awareness of his surroundings and could sense assassins nearby.

The spatial awareness that the Garlean Third Eye gives them might also help them recognize, or sense, a person's face under a mask or helm.
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>>2790855
Adel might have also had a third eye.

When Laguna tried to trick her with a hologram of Ellone, she knew right away it wasn't real.
>>
Squall's student ID is 41269
Which could mean there were 40,000+ students enrolled before him. Imo, seems like a lot.
For a place that's only been around 10 years, that's like 4000 new students a year. Although split between 3 gardens, that's 1333~ a little more reasonable.
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>>2790877
imagine the smell
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>>2790675
>Today I learned the difference between a Parrot and Macaw.
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>>2790881
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the more I learn the less I know
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>>2790893
Unei's bird is probably just a product of Amano's art style. He likes to add birds, lizards, butterfly and stuff fluttering around characters.

It doesn't have a name or function.
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>>2790906
buuut it could be a phoenix. Which was a dummied out enemy in FF3. It makes sense that immortals like Doga and Unei would have a phoenix as a pet.
I don't think the game ever explains what the "dream world" is. If's a spirit realm like the Feymarch or something.

There was also a Phoenix drawing for FF1 but it never appeared in the game. Although there is a Dr. Unne in Melmond. All he does is teaches you the Lufenia language once you get him the slab. But there is a question of why he was in Melmond in the first place?
Melmond has a vampire problem. And Phoenix Downs are usually the trick to dealing with undead. But I don't think that mechanic existed in FF1.

On the other hand there is the sleeping elf prince. You get a "jolt" tonic from the Witch Matoya to wake him up. Most games don't bother with a Sleep Recovery time. Other than "Remedy" that's more of a cure-all.Sometimes you see "Smelling Salts"
But it draws attention to the fact that Sleep and Knock-Out are kind of the same thing?

I'm thinking if androids were ever playable characters they might need a different class of recovery items. Like "jolt". Maybe instead of Phoenix feather you need a Quetzal feather. Haha or "Golgotha".
>>
Is this game worth playing? My only experience with the series is 6 and I enjoyed it, thought the gameplay was serviceable and the game was heavily carried by non-gameplay aspects.
>>
>>2790964
There is no right answer for VIII, it really is the quintessential "your mileage may vary" type of game. The junctioning system is very easy to exploit and can make the rest of the game trivial, but personally I enjoy breaking games over my knee as a reward for exploration and doing side-content. The story took thematic risks and avoids offering a narrow satisfaction. Squall for example is akin to a Holden Caulfield type of character. You're not meant to like him initially, the real truth as to why people are averse to Squall is because he hits too close to home and taps into a lot of JRPG player insecurities regarding sociality, which I think was a purposeful choice. I don't think it's a coincidence that VIII appealed particularly to female fans, it's very personal and tapped into some uncomfortable feelings. It's interesting to compare it to VI because that game was more of an ensemble piece and an "epic" in terms of narrative. Sorry I couldn't give a more concise answer.
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>>2790980
>>2790964
I just did junctioning normally and it felt like a normal game to me. It's hard to explain what normal is though.
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>>2790961
It's speculated that FFX's Valefor is suppose to be a cockatrice. Possibly connected to how Fayth end up dreaming in statues. Of course Yunalesca is like a medusa.
Valefor is named after a demon which is said to "help thieves but then lead them to the gallows"

Cockatrices in FF8 are Thunder element.
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>>2791001
For whatever reason the Thunder Summon for FFX was a Unicorn. The name Ixion and can make sense of, but it would have made more sense of Ixion was a centaur.
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>>2790980
>>2790985
Considering I liked VI for the reasons some people call it "too feminine to be relatable", maybe I'll like this one. I thought the character designs look quite nice here and I'm not into breaking games or grinding so I don't think I'll have any problems with the Junction system. My only concern is if your party will be developed too or the story only focuses on developing Squall. And if Rinoa is written to not be an obnoxious plot device or not since the whole "melting ice king falls in love with bubbly native girl" can be an overdone trope.
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>>2791006
>My only concern is if your party will be developed too or the story only focuses on developing Squall.

Yeah this is a point of contention with fans because the Squall and Rinoa relationship really is the driving force of the story and the rest of the characters aren't emphasised in the same way as say, VII, where they all have their own narrative questline. I think it'd be an overstatement to say that that the rest of the characters are irrelevant but their most important aspect is how they relate specifically to Squall and lead to his own personal growth/development as a leader. For example, Zell teaches to Squall to give people a chance whose personality clashes with your own if they're loyal. Or with Irvine, Squall has to learn how to encourage people when they're afraid of failure and to be willing to be a bit more open sexually etc.

>And if Rinoa is written to not be an obnoxious plot device or not since the whole "melting ice king falls in love with bubbly native girl" can be an overdone trope.And if Rinoa is written to not be an obnoxious plot device or not since the whole "melting ice king falls in love with bubbly native girl" can be an overdone trope.

Yes, another controversy. I personally like Rinoa but there are moments that can be frustrating because she makes some decisions in the story that are completely irrational and stupid. I'm more tolerant of this because the characters are very much teenagers and Rinoa is an outsider to the rest of the group because she wasn't brought up as a soldier.
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>>2791019
I'm okay with party members being developed as how they relate to MC if the game doesn't make the MC already too "perfect", if you know what I mean. For example in Grandia 2 it doesn't really feel like Ryudo is flawed enough of a person to really learn anything super life-changing from his friends, so that part kind of fell flat.

Also regarding the main female love interest making irrational and stupid decisions, this can definitely be a problem. However, it needs to be justified. For example, again, in Grandia 2 one of the main females Elena is quite hated by fans but I think her actions are justified because of her religious background and it's the whole point of her development. Or in another game Triangle Strategy, I thought that the main female Frederica's questionable decisions make a lot of sense somewhat because of her background and it's supposed to be a flaw of her character. It's a very hard act to balance I think. What I'm afraid of is how "irrational" it can be.
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>>2791005
Exdeath in FFV was pictured as a centaur in some Amano concept art. That might have been more interesting than an evil tree.

In the ps1 port it has an fmv of exdeath's tree getting hit with lightning. But the story of his creation is kind of vague. A tree sealing some nebulous evil spontaneously came to life, and then started walking around in a suit of armor. Weird.
His reimagining as the Exodus Esper in FF12 is a little more compelling. His interest in the power of the void stems from his detachment.

in FF9, you had the Iifa Tree, and towards the end of the game, the final dungeon is a lot like FFV's final dungeon. Although FFV makes some sense, while FF9's Memoria comes out of nowhere with no real explanation.
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>>2791025
There is some self awareness in the game, where the writer's play on Rinoa's desire to be taken seriously and not simply as a princess, there's a lot of naivete there. I like to analyse things psychoanalytically so it's clear that some strong daddy issues are afoot, which I think is interesting because it makes sense as to why she falls for Squall and perhaps unconsciously puts herself in danger. That's all I'll say, some people are very frustrated by her but I always like to read more into it.
>>
i love all the characters but they are terribly childish and stupid people. its like puberty:the game.
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>>2791092
Clearly the lunar cry was a metaphor for menstruation. Adel wanted to be a man but also weaponize her "moonflow" at the same time.
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>>2791631
I went to the store to get tampons but I didn't know what kind to get.
~T. Laguna
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>>2791092
as an ESL the first time I played the game -didn't understand the dialogues- I thought Zell was kinda badass and Quistis a cool business woman
oh boy how wrong I was
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>>2791735
zell was best girl and he loves the hotdogs
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>>2791025
Squall is definitively flawed and part of the game is learning why and him overcoming it.
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>>2791769
Did he though? Did he really?
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>>2791775
he turned from a gimp into a simp
>>
According to the Japanese script, a person can't normally exist Time Compression. They need someone else to believe in them. Love and Friendship.

While they're doing the time warp, Rinoa is like "I'll probably disappear." But Squall is like "Just stay by my side."
Rinoa is like, "Oh yeah, that was the beginning".
And they end up back in Deling City where Squall saved Rinoa and she ordered him to keep her next to him. Their thoughts and memories brought them there.
Although they were suppose to go to Edea's House.

After defeating Ultimecia, Squall get's lost in a time warp. Rinoa is in the right place, but Squall ends up in some wasteland. What happened to all that Love and Friendship keeping them together? Everyone was thinking about him, but he wasn't thinking of anyone else. So what does he do? He falls asleep and starts dreaming.
>>
>>2791792
Ironically his future self would leave an impression on his younger self.
Little Squall saw older Squall wearing this fur collar like a lion, and shiny gun blade and was like "Sugoi!"

Little Squall just finished asking Edea "Am I alone?" Then asks who's he. Edea tells him not to mind him. But she turns around and asks Squall "Will you be alright by yourself?"
He confidently salutes her. But he doesn't say anything.
He thinks to himself (I'll be alright because I'm not alone)

but he's not wearing a ring; Rinoa has it. And the salute isn't a salute yet. So what he was really signaling was "I'll be alright on my own".
Which is what Little Squall internalizes.
>>
>>2791847
Can you please stop ruining my Final Fantasy 8 threads. Your posts are not welcome here.
>>
>>2789709
Ultimecia's story and motive is interesting enough without trying to add Rinoa's baggage to it.
>>
>>2790242
>NPCs in F.H. recall renovating Balamb Garden.
Is it clear they're talking about events prior to the game, or are they just talking about the work they did on it after it crashed into FH?
>>
>>2791792
>>2791847
I don't know who's paroding who and who's the fanfic-ing schizo anymore
>>
>>2791913
It's explicit. They recognized Balamb Garden because they painted it 10 years ago.

>>2791907
>Nothing is interesting
>>
>>2790877
The ID for the Galbadia Garden student in Tomb of the Unknown King is only 3 digits at most.
I imagine there is a different system in place than sequential.
>>
>>2791019
Rinoa is someone trying to play soldier in a group full of actual trained soldiers.
Squall berates her and the Timber Owls for this at the TV station, and Rinoa brings up how out of her element she is at Trabia Garden.
>>
>>2791092
>its like puberty:the game.
Unironically, yes. The themes around shedding your childhood and becoming an adult couldn't be more obvious.
>>
>>2791921
>Nothing is interesting
What?
>>
>>2791940
Her backstory and motivation.
>>
>>2791955
You think Ultimecia has no backstory and motivation?
No wonder Square went back to basics with IX because VIII filtered brainlets so hard.
>>
>>2791957
Maybe if you ask nicely Schizo-kun will expand on it for you.
>>
>>2791969
Nah, no need to try and connect every minute detail of a Square game to every other Square game in existence to be able to work this one out.
>>
>>2791972
Guess you'll have to leave now. So sad to see you go. Bye. Thanks for nothing. Literally.
>>
>>2791974
What the fuck are you on about? Starting to think Schizo-kun might be contagious.
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>>2791986
Oh, I thought you were done. Please, continue. You were saying something about Ultimecia having a motive for time compression.
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>>2792003
The short version is that she is aware that Squall and co are destined to travel to the future and defeat her and her response to try and break that loop and fuck everyone is time compression.
>>
>>2792007
On the contrary. She has no idea what SeeD is. That's why she has Seifer torture Squall asking what it is.

In the 2nd Edea fight she certainly says "The time has come! Are you the Legendary SeeD?" in English.
But in Japanese she's talking more to herself
"This [presence/thing/you] is the [legend/folktale] of S e e D?"

Which also tells you she has no idea how far back in time she actually is.

In English she says "All SeeDs must perish!"
But in Japanese she says "The Mystery of S e e D disappearance"

So she's telling you, she has heard of SeeD before. The phasing is stilted I think too keep a lid on the fact that she's from the future. It might have been more natural to say "Now I know why SeeD disappeared from history!" but that would be giving too much away
>>
>>2792067
There was a big difference with Edea's parade speech too, right?
>>
>Used to like Quistis the most
>As I've gotten older, I've started to appreciate Selphie so much more
>>
>>2792138
she is a trooper, blue magic is always mechanically appealing though
>>
>>2792140
I mean sexually.
>>
>>2792149
they are both sexy as fuck but that only gets you so far
>>
>>2775696
TBF AIDS was still relatively new, still relatively scary, the drugs if/when they existed were prohibitively expensive, and the most reliable way to catch HIV was at the time thought to be having gay sex. It doesn't make sense NOW with the knowledge/tools we have now, but it may as well have been a death sentence on par with cancer at the time.
>>
>>2792067
>on the contrary
Nothing you said in this post contradicts that Ultimecia was aware of the story of her defeat and wants to stop that from happening.
>>
>>2792067
She must be somewhat aware of what time period she was travelling back to as the purpose was to find Ellone
>>
Schizo-kun has a beautiful mind. The more one gazes into it…
I UNDERSTAND NOW! WHAT THE GAME IS TRYING TO TELL ME! THANK YOU! SCHIZO-KUN!
>>
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>>2792321
Nope. She only knows Ellone exists because the J.M.E. is named after her.
At least, that's what Dr. Odine tells you this. But how Odine and Laguna know anything at all about Ultimecia or Time Compression is a gapping plot hole.

She only wants to absorb the powers of the sorceresses across time. It's a dummied out "Term" in the help menu, so people argue whether or not it's canon. But it says Sorceress Power diminishes a little with each succession. Which would mean Ultimecia in the far future would have to be the weakest and all she wants is power.

>>2792130
The English version obscures the fact that she's addressing Galbadia specifically. Calling out their Anti-Witch propaganda. They're like the Nazis to the Jews. And the first thing all Time Travelers do is kill Hitler. Right? She kills the President.
The Nazi allusion was stronger in the Japanese version, but they changed Caraway's armband from red to blue in other languages.
The R=U theory is stronger with this Japanese version. The language she uses "We shall continue dancing". And while it appears she's making Rinoa a "sacrifice", the word choice is echoing what Rinoa said while she was presenting the bangle as an [offering/sacrifice/gift].
Edea says this [ritual/ceremony] was always necessary. You can read it as ironic rather than sadistic. The interpretation being she was instigating "the beginning", there in the commencement chamber, Rinoa orders Squall not to leave her side. Which comes back in Disc 4.

There's a lot of speculation about the smoke coming from the president's body. There's no doubt that it matches the mist that comes from a dying sorceresses. So there might have been a change in the scenerio at some point during development. Where witches "Majo" were not exclusively female. They may have just been Black Mages. Or "Dolls" like in FF9, which the more powerful ones being the Black Waltz - with horns and wings. "Dollet" in Japanese is just "Doll"
>>
>>2789664
Can't help it. Keep in mind that schizo-kun talking to himself for 3 or more weeks is common.
>>
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>>2792605
I've talked about it before but it's worth repeating. The Black Waltz in FF9 correspond to Rinoa's Forest Owls and Father.

The secret to finding the Black Mage Village is the forest owls.
Waltz #1 is like Zone, he's always hunched over
Waltz #2 is like Wattz, he's fast and you fight him next to the train.
Waltz #3 is like Fury Caraway. he tries to capture Garnet in the Gates.

In an early draft of FF9, Zorn and Thorn were just a single black mage named Zorn (or Zone). Garnet didn't run off with the Royal Jewel. She ran off with something called the Leviathan Stone.
It's not really explained, but somehow Gizamaluke was being controlled by Zorn and Thorns. Most likely, Gizamaluke was planned to be Leviathan and controlled by this stone.

This could be a recycled plot thread of FF8. Gizamaluke Grotto is right next to Burmecia, a kingdom of eternal rain. Deling City, according to the Ultimania Guide, was also suppose to be perpetually cloudy, which explains their elaborate waterways.
In the FF8 demo, Rinoa is the only one with the G.F. command ability - which is leviathan.
The Odine Bangle, which she steals from her father's room, has a blue jewel, it may have been something like the leviathan stone. A G.F. item Caraway perhaps acquired from the tomb of the unnamed king. In most games, Leviathan is found in an inner sea, like the Loch ness monster, and the Tomb is right on this loch.

In FF7, Leviathan is the Wuitai's Sea God/Guardian. In FF9, you can tell Leviathan was meant to be more involved with the Bermecians and the secret library of Daguerreo (behind a waterfall)

In FF8 there is a waterfall on the world map, can you guess where it is?
>>
>>2792605
>how Odine and Laguna know
wasn't adel being controlled by ultimicia pre-laguna and odine explicitly working for her?
>>
>>2792643
Dr. Odine did work for Adel. But Adel was looking for a successor. In the Japanese script it says Adel had Odine researching Witches specifically.
It is confusing because it sounds like Ellone's unique ability makes her a witch too.

You could theorize that Ultimecia was playing it smart. Making sure Odine lays the ground work for the J.M.E. so she doesn't abort herself from the timeline or anything like that.
There's also the Sorceress Memorial ("Adel's cemetery" in Japanese) where they sealed magic. A head scratcher for sure. What was Adel planning to do with this technology? Why was she so angry? Why does she have pecs?

I've speculated that Ultimecia wasn't just a Sorceress in the Future, she was a Sorceress from the past and was sealed up in Esthar, or used her own magic to jump to the future and escape the Witch War.

All Odine says is that the JME must have limits and she needs Ellone to go back further. He doesn't explain why. She and Rinoa end up in a "young Adel". Meaning she was only short a few decades to do what she needed to do.
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>>2792720
it makes sense she couldn't use the JME to go back to before JME existed because of causality. if there was something causal about using ellone to jump ever-so-slightly further then the events would have to be white seed shit.
>>
>>2792720
>>2792725
>Making sure Odine lays the ground work for the J.M.E. so she doesn't abort herself from the timeline or anything like that.
>it makes sense she couldn't use the JME to go back to before JME existed because of causality

It's very firmly established in FFVIII that time and the events within it are set. Ultimecia travelling to the past and what she does there isn't changing anything or creating branching timelines - it is always how it was and how it will be.
>>
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>>2792786
Ellone insists you can't change the past. But Squall proved her wrong.
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>>2792786
Ultimecia = Know-It-All-Zell

>>2792003
In FFMobius they wrote Ultimecia wanting to be remembered. Or rather, never-forgotten.
>>
>>2792814
Except that doesn't make sense in FF8 because she never introduces herself as Ultimecia.

Disc 3 has a giant plot hole. In Disc 2, Seifer is still calling himself Edea's Knight. Calling her Mama sensei.
Rinoa is possesses only briefly to instruct Seifer to go find the Lunatic pandora.

Somehow the Deling City NPCs are aware there's a new sorceress called Ultimecia. Rinoa is comatose. Edea is in Esthar. Seifer is following through with this 20-step plan of freeing Adel.
He shouldn't know where Esthar is, or Tear's Point, Or even where Ellone's escape pod would land.

I had the theory that Ultimecia could still technically possesses Adel and beam down messages with a radio signal. Presuming that the message on Timber's TV Screen was from Adel.
But in the Japanese script, Odine states that Adel's seal was perfect and even stops outside-junctions.
Outside-Junctions? Like Ellone's Connect power, I assume?
>>
>>2792605
Holy shit how did I not notice this before? I got that Ultimecia was persecuted but I thought it was a reference to witch hunts and the Wizard of Oz.

Rinoa rebelling against her dad kinda has a bit more weight than just her being silly now...
>>
>>2792627
It sucks because I see sparks of good conversation and people talking, hell some of them may be the schizo himself but then the schizo keeps rambling on and everything gets lost in word salad.

Learning Angelo was in Bouncer and Rinoa's dad was interesting but I'm pretty sure that's only one from the guy...and not worth months of rambling dear lord.
>>
>>2792832
In the English version, Dr. Odine expresses concern that Adel's consciousness will overpower Ultimecia.

In the Japanese version, he says the same thing but I think it's meant to be an explanation for why they have to go into the Pandora, and not just wait for Time Compression to happen on it's own. He says Adel will destroy this era. But yet, when Ellone has the choice of sending Ultimecia further into the past it suddenly doesn't matter if it's Adel or Edea.
>>
>>2792860
I'm still waiting for you to explain why any of that matters.
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>>2792605
So you're saying Vinzer Deling could have been a sorceress too?
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>>2792803
>But Squall proved her wrong
How?
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>>2792858
Please don't buy into Schizo-kuns wild ramblings.
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>>2792893
the fairies did it
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>>2792890
When he saved Rinoa.
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>>2792632
>In FF8 there is a waterfall on the world map, can you guess where it is?

Montarosa Plateau. But I doubt the Leviathan G.F. would be there. It would have to be Obel Lake. Coincidentally the waterfall is involved in the Obel Lake sidequest, sort of.
There had to have been more to the region than some stupid side-quests. It's got all these winding paths but there's nothing up there except some pathetic draw points.

I bet this region would have been associated with the Phoneix G.F.
What's above the waterfall, on the cliff, is a bird's nest.

The Plateau is a pretty big region. Not even a plateau. But then there are lot of areas like that on the world map that are called canyons, valleys, and hills...where there are none.
Montarosa could be Rosa or Roza Mountains. Phonetically it's similar to locations in other Final Fantasy games.

Besides the Garden's infirmary, the world of FF8 doesn't have any hospitals or churches. Although Ultimecia's Castle has a chapel beneath the clocktower.
Supposing the castle is an assortment of abandoned locations through out the game, I would think a church or graveyard would be somewhere in the middle of Galbadia. Irvine is rocking the cowboy-look, but there weren't "ghost towns" or saloons or anything like that in the area.
>>
>>2793027
No, this doesn't prove Ellone wrong at all. What Ellone realises about her power is that she can't change anything because time is set. There is no version of the Laguna sequences where Squall and the rest aren't present via Ellone's power - it always happened that way.
In Rinoa's case, Squall, Ellone and the player have no idea if she is alive or not. That's what they gamble on - they don't know if Rinoa dies so sending Squall back to help her isn't changing anything on the timeline but from their perspective it would increase the odds of her survival.
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>>2793063
>Montarosa Plateau. But I doubt the Leviathan G.F. would be there. It would have to be Obel Lake.
Have you considered that Leviathan might be in NORG to draw from?
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>>2793093
Try to keep up, mate. Norg isn't a location.
Well, I mean, it IS a location in FF11.
>>
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I hope you're following FF16's development.
So when it inevitably shits itself, you can tell us what it ate for breakfast.
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>>2793109
As a matter of fact, I'm betting FF16 is using adapted elements of Vagrant Story 2.
But in terms of FF8, the Dominants with the powers of Eikons are a lot like sorceresses. Although information about it has been contradictory, so you can already tell there have been scenario changes.

For example in a recent trailer the Eikons confirmed are:
Phoenix, Ifrit, Garuda, Shiva, Titan, Bahamut, Odin, and Ramuh.

2 years ago they were referring to Ifrit as "the 9th", so there is probably a water Eikon that's going to appear. Also that hole in the middle probably leads to an inner world. In a trailer there's a map, but the geography doesn't match anything on the world map we're currently looking at.
I think they're talking a lot of elements of FF4. So their could be a lunar whale.

And now that we've seen 2 ifrits. That could mean multiple Dominants can exist at the same time. Or Aliens. There was a shot of the moon with a tiny red star next to is, and I immediately thought of Dalamud. All the mother crystals with "Drake" in the name makes me think they're fragments of a dragon world.

They're also "drawing" aether from these crystals. So that could be another connection to FF8.

Of course my predictions are always way grander than what we actually get. I expected so much more from Stranger of Paradise.
>>
>>2792888
I'd say he had magic at the very least. He could have been a G.F. for all I know.
>>
>>2793096
I guess you can schizo post all you want, doesn't change the fact Leviathan isn't in some waterfall in FFVIII
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>>2792893
I actually have no idea what schizo anon said beyond Rinoa's dad having a Nazi style uniform.

Does anyone actually know what he's been on about for the last 3 years? I cant stop visiting the thread to laugh at his posts.
>>
>>2793090
Correct.
Ellone’s power cannot change the past. This is established, it’s canon — it’s the game’s main theme (fate, fated children). It can send your consciousness back to the past, but you can only witness past events, never alter them.
The reason Ellone sends Squall back is not to alter Rinoa’s past, but her future. She sends him back to find out Rinoa’s present location so he can go save her.
Now presumably if you can't change the past you can’t change the future either. Whatever is fated to happen will and always was going to happen. Whether Rinoa dies or is saved is already set and no one can do anything about it. From Squall’s perspective, he doesn't know what the outcome is going to be, but he is willing to play his part no matter what fate has in store for the .
So much effort to retrieve Seifer’s used goods, but that’s S-cucked-by-all for you
>>
>>2793344
Precisely, and the theme is present in the main protagonist and antagonist as is often the case.
Squall's journey sees him come to accept his fate as a leader and eventual saviour, whereas Ultimecia rejects fate and hopelessly tries to fight it.
>>
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>>2793344
Guys, I think anon had a stroke. He's gone full retarded.
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>Ultimecia using the J.M.E.
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>>2793626
>Noooo, Ellone's power doesn't work like that.
>She's just watching events
>Anything that happens was meant to happen
>It's just an illusion of control

So Rinoa IS Ultimecia then?

>N-nooo. You're all idiots. Everyone is dumber than me.
>>
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>>2793626
>>
>>2793626
Correct.
When the cat placed his paw on the television screen, you think he caused the motorcyclist to fall, but in reality there is no causal relation between the two, only one of synchronicity. So it is with Ellone, Ultimecia.
It’s like the Cartesian soul thinking it’s sitting in the body’s driver’s seat, driving it, when in fact it is merely a passenger watching the body drive itself on autopilot — the material world working under strict deterministic rules.
>>
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>Be me
>Load FF8 save with 800hrs
>Amnesia Greens > All G.F. abilities
>Equip lobotomized G.F.s to Squall
>>
>>2792067
You're painfully retarded. She knows what SeeD is. She doesn't know their true objective or why they've persecuted Sorceresses and hunted her in her time. That's the information she wants from Squall. Your google translated Japanese lines are also complete gibberish. You'd think someone so obsessed with this game would at least understand it on a surface level.
>>
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>>2793774
>I've heard of [collective noun].
>Knowing that they are is the same thing as knowing what they are.
*everybody claps*
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>>2793720
Why?
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>>2793785
You have an interesting reaction to people actually discussing the game with you. Autism doesn't even begin to describe it, but it's a start, so well done preemptively bringing that up. All these years of schizoposting constantly and you still only have a loose grasp on FF8. So, do you just not play video games at all and spend all your time doing this shit instead? The quality of your threads would improve infinitely if you actually played the games you wish to sperg about.
>>
>>2793840
This is your desperation talking. Nobody was responding to your posts. To satisfy yourself you made me, an imaginary anon, to say the most logical response you could think of. But your thoughts only come in 2 flavors.
>Everyone but me is stupid
>Everyone but me is schizo
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>>2793881
You respond to every single one of my posts, every single time, always within minutes. You are stupid and schizophrenic, though. :3
>>
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>>2793890
kek
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>>2793897
That's just your narrative, schizo. Evidently, no one ignores me, especially not you.
>>
>>2793905
Wow. Very important. Much significance.
>>
>>2793908
No, schizo, your narrative is that I lash out because you ignore me. I have maybe 10 posts total in this entire thread, and you've responded to all of them. Still do your best to deflect from the fact that you can't actually discuss FF8 despite responding to every post though. :)
>>
>>2793640
Ellone and Ultimecia do influence events, it's only that their influence was always there.

Also yes, if you think Rinoa is Ultimecia then you are absolutely allowed to have your opinion even if I disagree
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>>2793916
I'm just mimicking you. If I'm not discussing FF8 neither are you.
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>>2793941
That is allowed. Yes. Because I gave you permission. I make the rules.
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>>2793926
Laguna sometimes-always falls asleep in Julia's room.
Ward is always-sometimes present during the Knight film.
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>>2793881
>you made me
Unexpected plot twist
>>
>>2793962
Looks like you've found a way to entertain yourself. But can you do it somewhere else?
>>
>>2793941
This is what happens when you disturb the animals. Observe, don't interact.
>>
>>2793962
Really? You harass and talk down on everyone and you never thought someone would do the same to you?
>He was retarded all along
Not a surprise. But still satisfying to watch.
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>>2793980
Pretty sure he only comes he expecting people to tell him why he's right. He's the same person that makes all the OPs with
>green text statement
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>>2793958
In the Ultimania Archive Vol 2. it says Kitase started playing with this idea, after working on FF 5 or 6 (I don't remember which), where the the player's choices would defined a Father's history, motivations, and perception by other NPCs. I want to say it was FF5, because Bartz's father was part of this team but you never get the whole story.

So it's like, he could defeat the monster, or his friend could defeat the monster. He could refuse the reward, or he could claim it, he could also claim it if he wasn't the one to defeat the monster.
So he'd fall on this scale of hero or scum.
You can see fragments of this idea played out in FF8 and FF10, which both also had an older generation preceding the main cast.

Seifer never tells you what his "romantic dream" is but you know he was inspired by Laguna's Sorceress Knight film. So potentially, your actions during that segment could have shaped Seifer's dialogue towards the end.

Squall busts in with the Ragnarok, echoing the Ruby Dragon's appearance in the film.
He's got Fujin and Raijin as backup, just like Kiros and Ward were Laguna's.

Of course what happens is they walk out on him. If you have Odin, then Gilgamesh will appear and mention Bartz from FFV. Seifer was probably meant to have the same energy as Bartz. Seifer = Zephyr, wind or breeze. Bartz motto was to follow the wind. In Dissidia they doubled down on Bartz's impersonations.

It's a shame Laguna and Seifer never met.

In the end Seifer remains ambigous about reaching some goal. Some how aware of Ultimecia's wishes for "The sorceresses to be one" - a plot point that's never explained.
Rinoa conveniently shows up to get herself kidnapped. You fight Adel.
Seifer just disappears for the rest of the game.
>>
>>2794094
I can picture a scenario where Seifer, Raijin, and Fujin joined the party for disc 4 if you manage to keep them together.

You know, Rinoa getting herself kidnapped could have easily been explained as Ultimecia possessing her. But then there wouldn't be the FMV of her struggling and getting pushed in front of Adel.
>>
Don’t pay attention to the haters. Fly, schizo-kun.
>>
>>2793958
That feels more like a gameplay thing to mix things up for the player. The differences are triggered by reading certain Timber Maniacs magazines, Ellone has no part in it.
>>
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Speaking of the Ultimania books, it really shows how under developed FF8 was. There weren't a lot of "alternative" designs (probably because square used them in other game)

They generally have a character tree with all the character relationships. But FF8's is pretty thin and wimpy. Compared to other games. I mean FF7 is like a 2 page spread, and they have all these mother/guardian figures. Because everyone has parents, hometowns, personal connections. They show Cloud's mom. But she barely has a presence in the game. .

Of course with FF8, everyone is an orphan, everyone is from Balamb, pretty much. Did Laguna have a family? You don't know. We know Quistis was adopted, but there were no details about that.

Did you know, when Trabia goes to war ALL it's citizens are conscripted into the army. But we never see a Trabia army. Shit. It doesn't even have an emblem!
All we know is that their Garden Logo was yellow, matching Selphie's outfit. The destroyed garden we see in the game isn't yellow. But in the Concept World Map, we know there were suppose to be yellow brick roads connecting to Esthar. (an allusion the the Wizard of Oz and the Emerald City)
>>
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>>2794157
I'm treading over old ground here. But with the Wizard of Oz theme, you just know that a Tornado was a thought in someone's mind. FF2 had the "Cyclone" Fortress, and the Lunatic Pandora bears some resemblance to it.

I mentioned before that Selphie's character was designed right after Squall. So she could have been Ellone during early develop.
Of course the game doesn't give any details on how Esthar Kidnapped Ellone, but just imagine if it was using the Lunatic Pandora. Passing over Galbadia's aired landscape, may have looked like a Tornado. It might have also passed over Madain Sari, er, I mean Edea's Orphanage.
We can only infer that something like that happened because "Making sure what happened to Centra doesn't happen again" was Laguna's #1 reason forgetting rid of it.
>>
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I just had a thought that maybe Edea's House wasn't always on centra. Maybe it was carried over there by the Lunatic Pandora.
>>
>>2794157
>>2794175
>>2794182
The non sequitur after non sequitur is actually amazing
>>
>>2794182
Nah, I think the lighthouse had greater significance at some point. You know, with FFX, they were moving forward with a Sixth Sense plot (before it was released in 1999) It was Tidus, not Auron, who was unsent but didn't know it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQGe1IYq6bk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6al6pmdzkrc
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>>2794196
That's Poltergeist; not the Sixth Sense
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Do you think there is a limit to questions? In Eureka Seven they imagine that too many consciousnesses in one place would collapse reality.

We never learn why sorceress "can't die" until they've found a successor.

The Sorceress Memorial aka "Adel's Cemetery" might have been a kind of Sorceress Hospice. Like Adel wasn't looking for successors her herself, but for the surplus of undead witches created by the war. Perhaps she only took in their power to end their suffering, and it made her mad.
Sucks we'll never know.
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>>2794220
Yes, Poltergeist was an 80's movie about about a house built on a cemetery that wasn't exhumed properly. "YOU ONLY MOVED THE HEADSTONES?!"
And in the sequel, on top of that, or rather below that cemetery there was also a cave that was used as a shelter by a Doomsday Cult in the 1800s, where they were buried alive.
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>>2794240
Anyway, the limit of questions is really inspired by the uncertainty principle. Where you can't know the position and momentum of a particle. But perhaps, without enough "observers" e.i. consciousness, it could be possible to break reality. Perhaps with microscopic organisms like the Midi-chlorian in Star Wars

In later games, like FF13-2, this is what "Chaos" is. Consciousness or Soul -stuff. Also known as Mist in FF9. But it's only in FF13-2 where there was too much that would break reality. In FF9 it was used to create monsters and Black Mage Dolls.
So I think, perhaps that's that's what the Sorceress Power is as well. And Time Compression is just what happens when it's all concentrated in one body.

But that doesn't explain how Sorceresses can't die.

In Eureka Seven, the "Scrub Coral" had reached the limit of questions as a collective consciousness. But went into a dormant state. They created an artificial human to observe mankind, and keep them from doing something stupid like nuke the planet and awaken everything. The human also created an Artificial Coralian like Eureka. She's a little unstable. And for whatever plot reasons, she gets to pilot a mech called "The End"
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>>2794267
In FF8, the Deep Sea Research Facility aka Battleship Island was studying a "sea deposit".

Zell said they were trying to develop their own draw system - whatever that means.

Descending the underwater tower, you pass over a lot of ancient ruins.
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>>2794175
I just assumed the fact gardens could fly was dorothy's house in the tornado
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>>2794195
I cant stop reading this fucking thread I think I check it every day now to see what nonsequiter is next. I saw aids the other day. Help
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>>2794094
Wait was the Ragnarok the Ruby Slippers in the Oz metaphor?
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>>2794269
In FF9, "trance" is soul power. Kuja achieves trance by using the souls collected by The Invincible. He destroys Terra, and then when you leave, The mist is all gone, but this giant pink cloud has appeared over the Iifa Tree.

Once again, the game has no explanation for what this is or why it's there. But I believe it's a hole in reality caused by the limit of questions, it even matches FF8's Sorceress Power. When Kuja started nuking Terra he must have awakened the souls and caused space and time to collapse.
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>>2793344
Im pretty sure the ending implied they did change the past but I forget how
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>>2794284
Perhaps this would have even been explained to us if Hades was the final boss, as originally intended.

We find Hades as a secret boss in Memoria's Sea Floor. And I think this was running off a concept in FF8. For anyone that doesn't know, Hades is the God of the underworld.
And so Hades was probably somehow involved the Sorceresses not dying business. Like "Hey, lady! You can't bring that crap in here."
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>>2794290
What's the worst that could happen?
*space collapses in on itself leaving a giant hole in the ocean*
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>>2794292
>Trophy unlocked "The Mist Seethes"
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My favorite part in FF12 is when you go into the Henne Mines after Fran's Sister while she's possessed by the Occuria. She's movements are all unnatural like a march hare.

The point of time compression, I think, must have been to negotiate with Hades. If not to end the suffering of witches who can't die, then perhaps to retrieve something that was lost to her. Your typical Orpheus myth.

In FF12, the Veirra are part of "The wood". A kind of collective consciousness. Although it's possible to be excommunicated as Fran was. In FF4 you had the Feymarch, like FFX's Farplane, it's towards the center of the planet, but it's were the summons live, rather than dead spirits.

Edea claims she first became a witch on the beach. Although we know Edea's true concept was carried over from FF7, were she would have lived in a forest. Which forest? Perhaps something like the Feymarch. So perhaps the Sorceress Concept is rooted (pun intended) in the idea of being cut off from "the wood".
I believe the earliest chronological event wee see in FF8 Is Laguna, Kiros, and Ward doing ~something~ in the Timberwood.
So it makes sense that whatever time Ultimecia was reaching for, it would have been then-and-there.
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Did you know FFV came out the same years as Ferngully?
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Throughout FF8 Laguna's Squad refers to Squall's presence as "Fairies". An interesting word choice.
But what's more interesting is that during that first dream sequence Ward says "Hoo-boy, not again..." as Squall and the others are expressing their confusion.

To them it's the first time, but not for Laguna, Ward, and Kiros.
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>>2794290
I'll be honest, I haven't really followed the KH mobile games. But it's revealed that Xehenort and Eriqus were trained under a Master Odin.
And they got their Keyblades from him. The "No Name" specifically.

Most of the PS1 era FF games fit into the "Gaia" mythos. Where a soul returns to the planet/crystal with it's memories.
FF8 seems to be the odd ball out. The closest thing to an ecology of souls in in the Tomb of the Unnamed King. Or Nameless King.
The English version called it "Unknown", but it's wrong.
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The box they're after in KH3 - allegedly - has a book of prophecies. A future, as it is witnessed by this No Name keyblade.

Anyone familiar with mythology, knows that Odin sacrificed one of his eyes to obtain wisdom. But that doesn't prove this is his.
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>>2794393
Doesn't fill in the plot whole very well. But it's a start. Like, somehow Fujin was relaying information to Seifer about the future.

If Ellone can see the past. Maybe Fujin can see the future?
It's an odd fit.

I don't think I've mentioned it before but the myth involving Fujin and Raijin in japanese mythology is similar to Orpheus. Only instead of mortals it's the God Izanagi going into the land of the dead to find his sister-wife. Only he's runs away, and blocks the entrance with a bolder. But the demon brothers Fujin and Raijin are able to escape through a crack.

If the Lunatic Pandora WERE to have a Cyclone around it, I can definitely see that being generated by Fujin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIVx2JqLzI
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>>2794405
I'm watching a speculation video on Rufus Shinra and why he can see the Whispers.

Fujin and Raijin were recycled from FF7 development. I'm keeping my eye's peeled for some kind of substitutes. Like if there were some kind of time-magic-materia plot involving them but was cut. FF7R could be revisiting that, but they'd have to replace Fujin and Raijin.

I haven't read anything to suggest that Seifer could have been inspired by Rufus. But I can see it.
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>>2794428
I think Rufus is just a contrarian. Just like Seifer in Kh2, if it's "destiny" he's going to go against it.
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I kind of admire the degree to which schizo anon is going to make some Final Fantasy unifying theory of everything a thing.
It makes absolutely no sense and a lot of it is easily explained by much simpler reasoning, but it is impressive to say the least.
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>>2794405
but ellone was the sister-wife, why was everyone racing to bang rinoa?
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>>2794267
>In Eureka Seven, the "Scrub Coral"
You just went full-retard. You never go full-retard.
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>>2794428
>Fujin and Raijin were recycled from FF7 development. I'm keeping my eye's peeled for some kind of substitutes. Like if there were some kind of time-magic-materia plot involving them but was cut.
Time-magic was never part of the plot of FFVII. FFVII was about self-perception, disillusion and false reality. Clouds psychotic break and fall into the life stream is paralleled with the fall of Izanami. If you've seen the original plot outline you'll know that Aerith was originally meant to die much later in the game. During this scene she was meant to replace Tifa and descend into the lifestream to recover Cloud. Her descent into the lifestream forces a cloud to reconstruct his memories and aresolution between the real and false identities of cloud, angry at being discarded he would have attempted to pursue them out of the life-stream. This resolution in the creation of a cloud and anti-cloud which forms the basis of the anti-lifestream we saw Sephiroth summon in AC. As they defeat anti-cloud, preventing the release of the anti-lifestream, Fuijin and Raijin would have escaped into the Midgard to create havoc.
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>>2794477
Except the name Cetra is a musical instrument. Like a lute. Like the one that opens a time portal in the very first Final Fantasy which also involved a time loop.

In Tear's Point, the BGM uses Seifer's "Rival" music
Although the map doesn't host an event outside of the arrival of the lunatic pandora.
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>>2794626
Lute is one of the main characters of SaGa Frontier.

SaGa series in which the Minstrel is a recurring character, telling the stories of the three Romancing SaGas.

In the first Romancing SaGa, he's actually God and he's the one who picked the heroes. In Romancing SaGa 2 he leaves instruments through the world as part of a quest to reach the skies.

SaGa 1 is called Final Fantasy Legends, and the antagonist is God.

Maybe SaGa is an attempt to come back from the skies and the gods we're always facing in Final Fantasy.
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>>2794636
In the FF8 demo it uses a line like "their story began this morning; but it has also been repeating since the beginning of time"

It's not a very accurate portrait of the game on release. Sure, there was a time loop, but that fact only comes up after the final boss.
Were they marketing a story or an ending?

I'm inclined to believe that the scenerio at the time of the demo was going in a different direction. Perhaps a lot like the story of Final Fantasy Mobius.
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>>2794983
>>2794373
>>2794368
"Palamecia, a world of Hope unbound.
None shall remember the names of those who do not fight."

The gimmick of FFMobius is that they are reenacting a "prophecy" meant to cultivate some nebulous concept of light/hope in people's hearts - collect it, then shoot it off to other worlds, leaving Palamecia in darkness, doom-destined to repeat this cycle over and over.
Not really a "time loop", just a "loop".
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>>2795000
Guiding the people-pawns in this prophecy are "fairies". Those who go against the destined flow are called heretics and witches.
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>>2794463
It's a road map. Can't you see the creative decisions?
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>>2794428
So the video I watched was exploring the idea that Rufus has cetra DNA or had Sephiroth cells.

The problem is that the idea of a "full-blooded" Cetra, like Aerith's mom, is kind of stupid.

The problem with him having Sephiroth cells is that he was infected with Geostigma in some novels and in Advent Children.

Reviewing his actions and the consequences, it looks like he's being guided unconsciously by "Reunion" , and everything he does seems to enable that.
As a Cetra, perhaps he has some level of precognition or clairvoyance guiding him?

In FF7R they changed his birthday. His birth now coincides with the discovery of Jenova. At that time his mother was a secretary who was also in Nibelheim Shinra manor, when they started doing experiments with injecting babies with junk. So that's suspicious. Also "Nibelheim" could be a mutation of Nebehl or Nevel, which is also stringed instruaments.

So with the Cetra, they were nomadic until some of them settled down. It's kind of implied that ordinary humans were their descendants. They never named this subspecies/tribe, but Cetra being an instrument it would make sense that a branch family is also named after an instrument, hence nibelheim.
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>>2781935
>Then, once they all remember the orphanage, she confesses she mistook her feelings as love.
I'd always read that as her lying to herself to save from heartbreak. Fucking sad shit.
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>>2782076
>Solomon had a ring to command demons.
>There is a Solomon's Ring in FF8, but its different from Squall's Ring and connect to the Doomtrain G.F.
In Japanese, Doomtrain is called Glasya Labolas, after one of the demons listed in the Lesser Key of Solomon.
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>>2795032
The fairies are all named "Echo" so it's kind of like FF7Rs "Whispers".

Following the "will of the planet". In FF Mobius they constantly talk about Palamecia as if it were alive. But even in the second-half when the "laws" and the "prophecy" are broken, there's no motivation or explanation for what the evil fairies are doing. The Big-Bad was named "Vox", a disembodied voice, seemingly conducting everything. Capable of controlling everyone. I might have missed it, but I don't think they ever explain what Vox is.

The first half follows, Wol (Warrior of Light) following the prophecy, along with Princess Sarah, Garland, and this Heretic Witch.
Somehow they break the laws of prophecy, but the world is still flooded in darkness™ which erases most people's memories.

When the flood subsides (they don't explain where it goes, why, or how it moves) the worlds starts over. It's kind of like FFX-2, only instead of "spheres" there are crystal "runes" that show people visions which some believe are their past lives.

Wol and Princess Sarah are living new lives as brother and sister. They both have their memories, but they don't tell each other that.

Meanwhile, the game introduces 2 new characters, Graff and Sophie. They also assumed the roles of brother and sister in a past life. Or maybe it was a dream - it's not really clear. They recognize and remember each other.
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>>2796250
When Mobius had it's FF8 crossover event

Wol was in in Squall's costume.
Wol's Echo was Rinoa
The Heretic Witch, Meia, was Ultimecia

Graff was Seifer
Sophie was Selphie. Technically, Sophie didn't have a Selphie costume but it was obvious that was the role she was playing.
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>>2796258
So the twist at the end of part 2 is that Sophie wasn't really Sophie. If she had a real name, they never mention it. She was just a girl that picked up a "rune" and assumed the life it had shown her. Kind of like FFX-2's dressspheres, with a hint of FFTA "It's Escapism!"

The fairies were trying to recreate a new prophecy cycle. But Sophie's presence, in their words, was "warping" the story. Telling us this implies, er, implications. But it ended and Mobius shut down, so we'll never know for sure.

But in relation to FF8, the missing piece here is this dream or life that Seifer was trying to recreate. FF8 didn't have spheres, runes, or crystal shit that makes you hallucinate a different life when you sort it.
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>>2796276
>crystal shit that makes you hallucinate
unless...
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If you go back to FF1, you had the Crescent Lake were some "sages" gathered. They're the ones reciting a prophesy of the Warriors of Light. They don't really do anything until the very end, once you defeated the 4 fiends, they direct you to the Temple of Chaos and tell you to use the Lute. I think it's said somewhere that they use the lake's surface for scrying.

"Tears Point" in FF8 seems to have been a last minute addition. The proto-type world map only labels "Point of Adel's descent".
And it's worth noting that Esthar's geography is slightly different.
It didn't have the crescent shaped sea.

I think Seifer had to be operating off some legend. Perhaps the "Legend of Seed" that Edea/Ultimecia mentions in the Japanese version. Because from that point forward, Seifer has nothing to go off of. How else would he know what the pandora is? Or where it needs to be? Or where Ellone would crash? Or to make "the sorceresses as one"?
I think the Esthar emblem was pointing to something - in some unused concept - and Seifer was using it like a map.

Tears Point is only explained in the Help Menu. It says "Scientists predicted" that it would be the next location of a Lunar Cry, and the boxes are meant to disperse the ground energy that would attract it.

Imo, Tears Point was inconsequential. Adel's tomb was in gravitational equilibrium between the moon and planet. It would have come down with any lunar cry, which the Pandora could have triggered anywhere.
Unless, in a different scenerio, Ellone was the key to triggering a lunar cry and tears point was just an alternative method.

Not only did the lunar cry bring down Adel's Tomb, it also took out the station which had Ellone on board. So even though Ultimecia needs Ellone alive, that's the 2nd time Seifer nearly got her killed.
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>>2796457
I'm wondering if the lunatic pandora was also a later addition. The concept map does show an impact site around where the Trabia Crater is. But it just says "Valley were Esthar attacked Trabia"

It doesn't mention an excavation site where Laguna found Esthar digging up the Crystal Pillar. On the concept map, this location was labeled the Centra Capital. This might have originally been Edea's House.

East of Winhil there was a planned story point called "Coast where Laguna Escaped" - so they obviously had a different scenerio in mind at the time.

The lighthouse says "From Squall AND Seifer's Dream" and below that it's where the Gardens Battle it out.
So their "dreams" might have been of the future; not of Laguna's Past.

Speaking of. We know Laguna visited Edea's House while looking for a way into Esther. There is a yellow brick road on Esthar. It stops at the sea. But if you continue following it, it looks like it continued on into Centra. So there could have been an underwater tunnel connecting them.
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Judging by the FF8 demo, I think Seifer was initially a SeeD rather than SeeD "trainee". The dialogue suggest both are there.

The reason we never see Trabia soliders could be because Trabia was part of Dollet.
In the final game, Galbadia's Invasion was sudden. But in the demo it says Galbadia is at war Dollet.

The FMV of them arriving on the beach shows explosions on the beach with Dollet Soldiers. Which is a weird place for them to be.

Selphie isn't in the demo. Instead, a lone Dollet solider comes up the elevator with orders to evacuate. Which is funny to think about. It's so unreasonable.
And then in the FMV leaving the beach, Quistis is also replaced with a Dollet Solider.

Allegedly, when Trabia goes to war all it's citizens are conscripted into the army. So if Dollet and Trabia forces were one and the same, I can see the Dollet Solider being Selphie all along.

Galbadia re-activating the tower to broadcast the President's speech never made sense because nobody has used "radio transmissions" in 17 years.
You can tell the dish was pointed at the moon. So I think in another scenario they were calling down a Lunar Cry without the Lunatic Pandora. The FMVs of the Lunar Cry is broken into a few different shots. One of them starts with the camera zooming away from the planet, then turning around to face the moon. But it was the Galbadia continent we were looking at. Not Esthar. You can see Obel lake specifically, and the camera was really centered on where Timber would have been.

So the lunar cry, or "a" lunar cry, may have been planned as early as the President's announcement in Timber. Instead of announcing the sorceress as his ambassador, he could have been like "check out our new weapon of mass destruction"
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>>2796677
Maybe the reason we never see the Trabia Capital, is because the President blasted it at this point in the story.

They never specify what the "conflicts" are.

It's funny. Right before the broadcast, Watts shows up saying the TV station is surrounded by guards, It's impossible to break in. Rinoa is like "Darn, so we can't just storm the place."
but seconds later, Seifer and Quistis are on the TV.
They stormed the place!

Oh yeah, I'll mention it again, but in the Japanese version it's much more evident that the world has multiple languages. They've got a mix of Japanese, English/French, and hints of Chinese.
Well, the "radio interference" is all in English.

>brinGmeBAckthereIaMaLivehereIwilLneverletYouforGetabOutme

Also, on the Ragnarok, when the air station is telling Squall what commands to input, the keys are all English too. So the message might not have been Adel, but a distress signal from the Ragnarok.

The Radio Interference is part of the reason there was no air travel in the game. But the game never explained what Galbadia did to overcome it. Plus their missiles were specially designed to not need radio guidance.

But it doesn't make sense that Esthar Air Station has been searching for the missing Ragnarok for 17 years. Or that the artificial gravity didn't deplete the fuel in that time.
Or how the monsters got on board.
Or how they knew Rinoa was a sorceress.
Or how, even though Air Station said they started recovering escape pods, Galbadia somehow got to Ellone first.
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Will I enjoy this game if I like FF2 and FF6? None of the other FFs look appealing to me. I was interested in FF4 until I knew about the fake deaths bullshit.
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>>2796759
if you enjoy breaking the game and being OP as shit then yeah
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>>2796759
It's an acquired taste.
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>>2796770
No I like the tone, art, story, gameplay flow and quirks, and characters of 2 and 6. I don't try to break any of these games either.
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>>2796783
hmmm to me if you like 6 you may like 7 or 9, 8's setting is different and the story is almost entirely focused on squall and rinoa, the rest of the party hardly get any lines past the start of disc 2
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>>2796788
Hm I don't like the art of 7 and 9. I want more serious stories and aesthetics like 2 and 6. That's why I was interested in 8.
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>>2796747
But if there was some kind of legend or prophecy surrounding Esthar and a lunar cry, then the realization might have just dawned on them.

Squall tells the Air Station his name and that he's a SeeD from Balamb Garden.
I can easily see that information being woven into some cryptic Nostradamus quatrain.
So nobody would have to know Rinoa was a sorceress, they'd just have to believe a prophesy.
I mean, what did the scientists on the station see anyways? A girl walking like a rag doll, repelling anyone that got close to her. That hardly makes her a witch, right?
I mean, Edea charmed an entire city when she was possessed by Ultimecia. We even see her puppeting Rinoa then too, before she ever inherited anything.
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>>2796788
> the story is almost entirely focused on squall and rinoa, the rest of the party hardly get any lines past the start of disc 2

6 didn't give everyone the same amount of focus but they all fit a shared theme, just exploring different aspects of it, so this isn't a problem unless the main themes of the game is completely trash and unrelatable.
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>>2796747
Most any text outside of dialogue boxes are english or engrish.

Like "Garbadia Prison Control Tower"

The camera display viewing the Lunar Cry is just a scrolling through "ABCDEFGH..." but mirrored.
Even the decals on the Ragnarok have "Esthar" mirrored in places.

The lunar gate rail gun launcher says "Tin Can Shooter" on the side.
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I too am a person with a present or future opinion of this game. Be inferior.
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The world building of Final Fantasy games is incomplete. But to understand why, and what's missing, I think you need to see the world building that characterized the JRPGs of the 80s and 90s.

It's not that the missing piece was lost; it was never found. The things that worked were intentionally discarded in search of a new form. But perhaps some things are too fundamental to be substituted.
Like history engraved in stone, or some airy prophecy. Both can be considered cliche, but if you got rid of them both you lose a critical device for delivering exposition. And you end up with a giant space flea from nowhere.

Typically you start with 2 ancient civilizations like Atlantis and Mu.
Atlantis sunk. Mu was forgotten or erased from history. Dust in the wind.
Survivors of Atlantis became monsters. While Mu is this fantasy, dream, castle or content in the sky, a future-yet-to-be, or a past-that-never-was.
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Of course there are Biblical parallels. Noah built an ark. I think it's his (distant) cousin, Jubal, invented the harp (or music in general) that was so pleasing to the angels they spared him. This is mixed in with fairy tales of Man-eating Giants in the Sky with self-playing harps. Jubal being a descendant of Cain, while Noah was descended from Seth. So it's a good thing that came from evil deeds. Like a Jubilee. Celebrating freedom of slavery or redemption from sin. People with musical talents are said to be descended from Jubal, but at the same time, they're not suppose to exist, because they should have been wiped out with the flood. So there's always something wicked or shameful about parties. Or something indecent about career musicians who make their living off of people. Hence cannibals are named after Cain.
In the Acts of the Apostles there was a city of cannibals, which, long story-short, were baptized in a flood.
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Rinoa isn't Ultimecia, she's a selfish Remake Aerith. She was a sorceress the whole time, brainwashes Squall the first time she meets him, able to con a resistance movement into buying her a luxury train cabin, revels in the princess treatment. Then Ultimecia invades her brain and surprisingly she finds a piece of her own power amongst Ultimecia's. She realises that Ultimecia comes from a future where humanity is unable to exist; time as humanity recognised it ended... and yet there she is within Ultimecia. Somehow her own sorcerous powers can be sent back in time, a small part of her living forever, a Princess of Time with her loyal Knight. She realises she's happy with this arrangement. Who knows how long it will take for the gang to realise that Rinoa is the real orchestrator of events in Final Fantasy VIII. Who knows how many times over Squall will have to go forward in time to slay Ultimecia, not knowing he's consigning himself and all mankind to a doom kept repeating forever by someone he thinks he loves. Will any of the party will even figure it out at all, that their friend the sorceress is an even bigger villain than Ultimecia?
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You can read about the numerous ancient civilizations across the Final Fantasy series.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ancient_civilization

Generally it involves a transition from magic to magicless.
Sometime it involves aliens. Like FF4's Lunarians and FF9's Terrains.
I think the list above leaves out beastmen races. But I can forgive them because the details can be fuzzy (pun intended).

Anyways, I'm trying to draw a connection between Tears Point in FF8 and the MotherCrystals in FF11 which were also called "Tears".

The crystal of ff8 is the crystal pillar in the Lunatic Pandora. Supposedly it fell from the moon during a natural lunar cry. But somehow Esthar figured out it could weaponized and cause more lunar cries. But just saying that out loud you can probably sense what a jump in logic that is.

Up to this point in the FF series, the crystals represented forces of nature that needed to be balanced, but also granted special abilities.
In ff5 the crystals were shattered, but the shards provided class changes
In ff6 the crystals were the magicite, that provided learning of magic
In ff7 the crystals were materia, also facilitated magic and abilities

So FF8 appeared to be a big departure from that. Magic and Abilities come from G.F.s which are not crystals. Although, G.F. Recovery items are distinguished by a moon symbol, so there might have been a connection between them and the crystal pillar which fell from the moon.
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>>2797729
Verum Rex is getting one too.
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Perhaps what Disc 4 was missing was a revelation of the world's future. One where Timber did or didn't obtain it's independence.

Perhaps they'd go on to chain the moon to harness it's power, like in Infinite Undiscovery. Or perhaps they had their powers sealed by Ultimecia. I wish they elaborated more on that. What became of the shumi tribe and moombas?
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>>2797703
When Cain killed his brother, Abel, his blood cursed the land so nothing would grow. At least that's one interpretation. Other's have taken the phrase "Mark of Cain" to be a literal curse mark. God's divine protection to stop anyone from killing Cain. But what the mark looks like and why God gave it to him has been a subject of a lot of speculation.

Esthar is strangely barren. I'm not sure if it was suppose to be like a savana or something.

Like Windurst in FF11. Which is ironically inhabited by Tarutaru.
Just like the Munchkins in the wizard of Oz were ruled by the Witch of the East, until somebody dropped a house on her.

Lions have to exist some here on the planet, right? Today we think of Lions as being an African thing. But they used to be all over Europe before going extinct.
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>>2797821
The Tarutaru concepts were pretty interesting. Some were more feral looking and accompanied by a tapir - or perhaps a dream-eater?

Probably an early connection to Diabolos, which in FF11 they made him master of these dream realm Dynamis.

The lines the sorceress says to Seifer gave the impression that she was giving him dreams. But what they were or why he wanted more, we'll never know.

In FF11, Diabolos created Dynamis as an exit. You could call it "escapism". But literally, when the Zilart nuked everything it didn't look like the planet was going to bounce back. The emergence of the 5 races after this point is questionable.
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>>2797853
See Tarutaru in Windurst live on the plains of Sarutabaruta which is litered with ancient towers, the Horutoto ruins. That belonged to the Zilart and their sub-species the Kuluu.

The Kuluu were born with a kind of emptiness inside them, So they lacked the Zilart's "whisper of the soul" or telepath. But it also lead to a new type of magic - Summoning.
The Horutoto ruins were created by the Zilart to extract the emptiness from their kin.

There are similar ruins in the Beaucedine Glacier. (Idk if "Glacier" is an appropriate name)
But this is where Diabolos is found.
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>>2797874
Ah! It looks like some of my posts from yesterday didn't go through. I'm so sorry guys.

I had a tangent from >>2796283 >>2796286
about snow that might not be snow.

Ok, quick recap. In FF11 the Zilart and Kuluu are the ancient civilization. The Zilart created a "crystal line" connecting "arks" (now known as Crags) which contain giant mothercrystals (also called "tears").
It might be easier to think of the crystal line as a kind of particle accelerator. The line converged on Qufim island (shaped like a crescent moon) to a tower.
They were attempting to open "the gate of the gods" and transcend or some shit. But they basically blew themselves up in a magical-nuclear explosion event called "The Meltdown".

The subtext is that it created a kind of Nuclear Winter. At the very least, it altered the climate of Qufim and Beaucedine. The implication is that Beaucedine wasn't always a tundra.
The Kuluu that survived the meltdown mutated into tonberries. There's not really a time frame for this evolution. But the planet was in such bad shape that Diabolos appeared and opened the way to another dimension to escape their suffering.

I find this interesting because in FFTA the "real" world of St.Ivalice is cold and snowing.
And in FFTA2, there's a forbidden land, which is basically a fallout zone of some ancient magical nuclear meltdown with the implication they were dumbing nuclear waste into another dimension.
>>
I think we have to speculate if the Northern Crater in FF7 was always cold and always in the north. Or if the planet tilted or went into an ice age after getting hit with meteor.
Presumably if the Ancients were using Meteor, and hit their target, we have to ask who or what would have been living there.
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>>2797902
There's a debate about mistranslations in FF7. There's a reference to "Knoll's Pole". Did they mean "North Pole" or was their a race of "Gnolls" living at the pole?

Remember, Red XIII's species is never named. But you can see a similarity to the moombas in FF8, which are evolved forms of the Shumi Tribe that like on/under Winter Island north of Trabia.

In FF9, there are Gnoll monsters that look like blue tailless Burmecians. Or maybe hornless Ronsos. Something about them reminds me of the Gi tribe in FF7.
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>>2797914
Gnole's are also a unique monster in FF11. They're basically werewolves. Their stats change at night and with the phases of the moon. Technically they are beastmen and can speak, but I don't recall seeing them in any story content.

Given the moon's significance in FF8, it's surprising it didn't have something similar.

In FF8, we know Laguna was saved by a moomba and taken to the Shumi Village. This was a big head scratcher. Because wtf would he be doing on winter island if he was looking for a way into Esthar?

Well, if you refer to the concept map, >>2796554
The shumi village or "Master Village" wasn't originally on winter island. It uses to be on Trabia, east of the garden in the region known as Thor (Tōru) Peninsula.
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>>2797958
Gnolls in FF9 use "Vanish" to make themselves invisible. You encounter them on the Outer Continent. Given the attention to detail in the concept art, I suspect they were related to the Burmecians somehow.

And perhaps the black mage village, protected by it's invisible force field, was also meant to be this Gnoll village.

Something that never made sense to me was how the Black Mages ended up on the outer continent in the first place.

Then again, the dwarfs of Conde Petie on the outer continent also seem out of place. You know, dwarfs in other final fantasy games basically looked like black mages in viking hats. And subterranean.

You cross through an underground tunnel to get to the outer continent. Cid gives you a world map item and a hint about how to get there. The map key item includes a quote by Sir Frately - you know, Freya's boyfriend with amnesia that never got any plot development. This should imply that Fratley has been to the outer continent. Maybe even lived among the Gnolls. Maybe they live in the Iifa Tree, which is even bigger than the Cleyra tree. There had to be a connection their, right?

But Freya "crescent" doesn't go with you to the outer continent, since the burmecians homes were destroyed. But in an alternate scenerio, it would make perfect sense for her to go looking for a new homeland. Or a place of origin.
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>>2797979
Actually there's something similar mentioned in FF11 Adoulin content. In Adoulin their is the great world tree, Yggdrasil sealing "Darkness". The region was uninhabitable before that they planted it there, and magically sustained an ecosystem.
There was some otherworld-dimension thing going on. The final boss was Hades btw, maybe you can see the pattern with other FF games. But FF11 didn't expand on it.

Anyway, this Yggdrasill was transplanted from another giant world tree from Rhazowa. But that world tree was burned down by orcs.

"Rhazowa" is not seen in the game itself. There's no maps for it except those made by fans. But it's suppose to be north of Beaucedine. Over run by Orcs and Gigas.
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>>2797997
It smells like FF9 to me.
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I think I've mentioned it before, but I think Adel was suppose to be a kind of Gigas.

In FF7, you find Gigas in the Whirlwind Maze, at the Northern Crater.
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>>2798005
Everything implies that the northern crater was where Jevova fell.

But it also says they found jenova in a rock layer. The lifestream whirlwind is suppose to be healing the planet. But it's like, how old is this "wound"? Why hasn't it healed yet? What would it heal with?

A tree maybe?
I think the crater was something like FFX's farplane. Sephiroth was crystalized in Mako, but also a root structure. Those roots might have been jenova cells?
At this point in the story he starts showing them memories of the past.

For whatever reason the Trabia Crater in FF8 has somekind of energy field that can't be crossed with the garden. I'm not sure why because it's not like you can get into Esthar that way anyways.
Maybe the Nortes Mountains north of Esther were a late addition.
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In my mind I'm overlapping Seifer with Rufus Shinra to fill in gaps. But they're both shrouded in mystery.

Is there another character in the series that could be an expy of these two?
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>>2798103
Well, actually it's suggests the crater/wound was there before Jenova arrived.
But it's confusing because
1. The Cetra are allegedly nomadic
2. They "discovered" the wound
3. They left because nothing would grow there

So was the city of the ancients there before or after the wound? They couldn't grow anything because the planet used that life force to heal itself. But the emphasis on leaving, when they're nomadic anyway, is strange.
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>>2798178
Imo I doubt Ifania was presenting the facts in a meaningful order. Because if you rearrange it slightly you get a more convincing narrative.

>The cetra were nomadic UNTIL they discovered the Northern Cave where they could be reunited with their (dead) loved ones.
Naturally, they'd want to stay and build a city.

Some fans believe that Jenova was just dormant in the crater. Like Stephen King's "IT", or Cthulhu, or something.

IMO, the planet wasn't healing on purpose so jenova's virus wouldn't spread to living hosts. The planet tried to warn the Cetra but it was too late. And the Cetra turned into monsters. The planet created WEAPONS to deal with it, but the other Cetra sealed Jenova away...somewhere...somehow...
I don't think it was in the North Crater, because Shinra wouldn't be looking for it otherwise.

But that might just be bad writing. The developers have explained the concept behind the name Shinra; wanting to become God. They ended up giving that motivation to Sephiroth.
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Schizo anon, are you aware how much your ramblings deter discussion rather than encourage it?
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Thanks for the bump, grumpy anon.
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>>2798118
>In my mind

Have you not realized that it's ONLY your mind snd literally no one elses?
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>>2798118
It's more deluded, but maybe Steiner in FF9.

He's idealistic.
When Vivi is in the party he's a "Magic Knight", like Sorceress Knight.
He's last name is Adelbert - maybe some connection to Adel.
Plus he's got an eyepatch girl that's hot for him.

There's not a lot of evidence that Fujin was crushing on Seifer. But her throwing weapon to me says "Look at me, I'm Rinoa but better."
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>>2798864
There is a much much thinner connection between Seifer and Amarant. They both use the "No Mercy" ability.

But Amarant's motivations are murky too - maybe that can be considered a character trait too?

Steiner's sense of identity is maybe delusional.
Amarant's identity/reputation is based on a different kind of lie.

Zidane stole something from the Treno Auction house and pinned the blame on Amarant. Amarant just kind of rolls with it and becomes a bounty hunter. But I don't think he wants revenge. I think he's grateful Zidane brought some excitement into his life.
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>>2798885
When the Queen hired Amarant and Lani, she gave them 2 orders. Retrieve Garnet's Jewel, and kill Vivi.
The "Kill Vivi" order quickly loses focus because he's not interested in killing kids.
There might have been more between Amarant and Vivi too, since they were both from Treno.

Also, continuing the trend of spotting Star Wars references.
"Vivi" read in roman numerals is "66"
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>>2798937
you mean "6 6"
66 is "lxvi"
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>>2798118
I submit Baku of Tantalus for your consideration.

That's Baku - as in the mythical dream-eater
And Tantalus - the king who's punishment in Tartarus was to never have what he reached for.

In FF9 the orchestra plays "Rufus's Welcoming Ceremony" from FF7's Junon parade, to scare off the monsters in the Evil Forest.
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>>2798599
I guess I haven updated my thought-pattern App in a long time.
What's the media telling you to think about these days?
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>>2798418
No, schizo-kun isn't self-aware. Just a few days short of another month of crazy ramblings having passed.
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>>2799085
And youtube tier commentary is still all you can contribute.
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Maybe one day we can have a Final Fantasy VIII thread with some actual discussion from fans. As it stands, it's unironically a better conversation on reddit and some of those retards suppose the end of the game means Ultimecia never happens.
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>>2799144
>Hur dur I've never played this game. Tell me what to think

>I've played this game. I have. I like things.

>FF8 has system rules like any other game. You can move the character around with the analogue stick. *non-expressive emoji*

>[obvious statement] + [empty bravado]

Are you winning son?
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>>2799133
You've set several examples in this thread as to what happens when someone else "contributes." You don't get along well with others.
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>>2770094
Rinoa = Ultimecia makes so much sense and does so much to elevate a story that is otherwise controversial at best and straight up disjointed at worst, that I can't believe that Square didn't play along once people started pointing at it, even if they didn't intended it to be the case from the start. The fact that they went on to deny it it's baffling to me even to this day. They had a chance to improve the game after the fact, and didn't take it.
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>>2799149
Fuck, you've got it all worked out. Time to shut down every thread.
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>>2799252
To me, I'm the complete opposite. I think it makes little to no sense and makes the story worse. It just requires too many leaps of logic and handwaves for me to buy into and doesn't fit with the themes expressed in the game at all.
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>>2799267
You will not be missed.
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>>2798974
Doesn't really help get to the bottom of what he's after. Just that, whatever it is, the universe will conspire against him so he can never have it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3VQc788AO0
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>>2799280
There is a delete scene between Rufus and Cloud.
I'm not sure when exactly when it takes place. Sometime after Meteor is summoned. But before Diamond Weapon.

There wasn't much to it. Basically Rufus believed meteor would simply disappear if they defeat Sephiroth.
It's a shame they didn't leave it in because it was painfully ironic.

Just before the Diamond Weapon event, Cloud and the others were in the Ancient City and just learned that Aerith did activate Holy, and it's still active even though she's dead.
Which means killing Sephiroth won't stop Meteor either. They don't get the chance to tell Rufus that.
But I think Rufus realized he was wrong. Even though they managed to defeat Diamond Weapon it's energy blasts weren't stopping.

I had mixed feeling about Rufus surviving this in the spin-off.
But in A Way to a Smile, we learn more about Rufus' relationship with his father (and how he survived Diamond Weapon's blast)
Basically Rufus and his father had a kind of rivalry. With his father dead, he can't lose to him anymore. And that characterized in his attitude and planning.
When they built the Shinra H.Q. little Rufus asked "Where is the Escape Route?"
To which his father responded "Only losers run away".
But it turns out he did have a trap door. "For Losers". Like Don Corneo.
So in the moments before the blast, he saw that button his father installed with a big "L".
And I think he acknowledged that people's do have an influence beyond the grave (or that he can still lose to them at least).
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>>2799334
I think Seifer just wants to win.
He talks about his "dream" but I think he's really fixated on "the goal"

We see a similar Father-Son relationship in FFX between Jecht and Tidus. And a mentality about a dream and a goal. Tidus is all about making the shot. Making a goal. Jecht (sounding like an asshole) tells him to keep dreaming.

Seifer doesn't have a father figure though. Fans speculate he was adopted by Cid, since he has his card. But Seifer probably saw Cid as a loser too.
Or maybe there was something more to Cid's compliance to build an organization meant to defeat witches. A knight letting his charge die.

Perhaps Seifer couldn't accept a lose-to-win scenario.
Which is basically what Summoners were doing in FFX.
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>>2799346
It might not be a Father-Son relationship but maybe there was meant to be more between Seifer and Zell as brothers.
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>>2799349
Like Edgar and Sabin in FF6.
But it's a shame Zell never suplexed a train.

Zell is something like an Edgar/Sabin fusion since he's both a martial artist and tech savy.
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>>2799351
But I can see a story parallel there. The one time Zell get's to lead the party he's also protecting Edea.

If Zell's party makes it into the Lunatic Pandora, they'll inevitably get ejected out a trap door.
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In the demo, and maybe in the final version, when Squall, Seifer, and Zell are outside the Dollet, Seifer is talking about his dream.

He does say "You were there". I always assumed he was only talking to Squall. But it might have been directed at Zell.
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>>2799346
Seifer was a little insecure bitch baby who clung to the words of the first person who fed him the bullshit he wanted to hear.
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>>2799506
Good luck?
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>>2799270
Yeah I'll admit that the logic does not perfectly line up (specially since, for Ultimecia/Rinoa to forget Squall, she should have been junctioned to Griver from the start, but she actually gets it from you during the fight). Still, it's such a good match regardless, and (in my opinion) it improves the story enough, that it just surprises me people at Square didn't just take the opportunity to run with it. If not to save face, just to make the game a little better retroactively.
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>>2799647
>Yeah I'll admit that the logic does not perfectly line up (specially since, for Ultimecia/Rinoa to forget Squall, she should have been junctioned to Griver from the start, but she actually gets it from you during the fight). Still, it's such a good match regardless, and (in my opinion) it improves the story enough, that it just surprises me people at Square didn't just take the opportunity to run with it. If not to save face, just to make the game a little better retroactively.
This is where 2nd loop theory fixes things. She didn't recognize Squall because in the 1st loop Seifer was her knight.
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What if the Centra were Centaurs?

We know that Exdeath had a centaur concept early on. With the world being split in 2, we could infer that his body was also split in 2.

Maybe the Centra weren't literal half-horse men, but just half-monsters. Like people did have magic at some point, and these other halves were G.F.s

I believe there are hints of a centaur race in FF14. They were Meracydian centaurs. Meracydia was a southern continent that isn't accessible in the game. But you can see it from the Moon. It's currently an uninhabited wasteland.

The Centaurs had their own primal, Zurvan.
There was an unnamed tree race with a Sephirot primal
And then a collection of different races who had the Sophia Primal. Miqo'te and Dragons are specifically mentioned.
Thus these 3 primals made up the Warring Triad. But it's also suggested their were other primals forgotten to time. Their summoning technique might have been different as well. In any case, Emperor Xande would conquer Meracydia. The triad would be imprisoned and studied on the floating continent of Azys Lla. During the conflict Bahamut was killed, and it's mate, Tiamat. tried to summon him back as a primal, but he was twisted by hate. Xande's empire would imprison that version of him too in the smaller red moon, Dalamud.
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>>2800093
Obviously FF14 has various call backs to previous games.

The Triad and floating continent go back to FF6.
Xande goes back to FF3.

In FF8 we do find Bahamut imprisoned in the Deep Sea Research Center, surrounded by a Triad Emblem.
There's also a Tiamat G.F. in Ultimecia's Castle. So some of this scenario in FF14 could have been recycled from FF8. Or even FF9, since Burmecians had some relationship to the Dragons but it wasn't fully explored.
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>>2800066
That is even harder to justify than R=U alone. The game establishes pretty hard that events in time are set and what happens always happens.
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>>2799647
>it just surprises me people at Square didn't just take the opportunity to run with it.
Possibly they don't think it makes it better.

I think FFVIII suffers from being one of those stories that require a replay or two to fully grasp. That's not to say it's complex - only that the way it's done and how late stuff is revealed on a first playthrough it can seem like it comes out of nowhere. And understandably, a lot of people don't feel a want or need to play it again.
A common criticism is that Ultimecia is just there, with no motives or story and just there to be the final boss. But she's in the game from the start and her motives and reasoning made pretty clear - she's done with the persecution of sorceresses and she's heard the tales of a legendary SeeD destined to kill her and so she's going to attempt to stop that with time compression (while making herself all powerful etc, typical jrpg stuff)
I find Ultimecia's somewhat tragic and futile attempt at trying to fight fate - in contrast to Squall learning to accept it - a more compelling villain arc than an amnesiac and/or insane Rinoa trying to wreck everyone without either side (including either version of herself!) taking even a slight moment to acknowledge the possibility. Admittedly at a surface level it does sound like a cool twist, but for me the compelling evidence just isn't there.
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Squall has two GFs assigned to him from the start of the game that we can assume he picked up during training.
So how come Quistis, Zell and Selphie don't seem to have any when they join the party?
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>>2800302
I think originally you were suppose to find Shiva and Quezacotl later in the game.

Also, Galbadia doesn't use G.F.s but an "Odine Box" or "Odine Device" to draw and stock magic.

So in theory everyone could use that. I imagine it would have limits. Like maybe it lets you use magic, but you can't junction magic to stats with it.

IMO it would have been interesting if Seifer had his own G.F. you couldn't touch.

I guess that also brings up the fact that G.F.s like Odin and Gilgamesh can't be junctioned either. So maybe, secretly the others do have a G.F. but they're just not ~that~ kind of G.F.
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>>2800547
that also raises the question of what happens to a G.F. if the person it's junctioned to dies.
>>
therefore schizo = batshit
>>
>>2801452
cope



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