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I tend to be late to a lot of parties, so maybe someone else worked this out. But here it goes

>Be spoiled brat, daughter of military general
>Start resistance movement in vassal state to rebel against dad
>Flirt with Squall, Savior of Reality to pass time until you can meet with head of mercenary organization, while also dating Squall's arch-rival (and living in a train car with two virgins and being called princess all the time).
>And a dog
>Have adventures
>Become sorceress
>Get saved by Squall and acquire epic space craft that super-advanced state of Esthar "lost"
>Go on to participate in saving of reality
>Happycreditsroll.jfif
>3 weeks later...
>On a break
>Squall hooks up with Bestgirl Quistis
>Flip shit, run away
>Brood, develop sorceress powers
>Conjure Guardian Force Griever and seek poetic justice
>Guardian Force erodes memory
>Begin to forget Squall, "secret" of SeeD, and previous life
>Take over world, launch time kompression scheme
>Possess Edea, don't recognize her
>Manipulate Seifer, don't recognize him
>All memory of previous life consumed by Griever, only thing you know is the world must pay
>Ex-Boyfriend comes to kill you, but you don't recognize him
>Right before death, run back in time to a certain meadow without knowing why
>Find woman you possessed
>Find guy who just killed you, remember the truth
>Promise fulfilled
>Die
>>
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>>2770094
>Squall hooks up with Bestgirl Quistis
Pfft hahaha.
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>>2770094
>Bestgirl Quistis
lol. quistis is cringe. 8 doesn't have good girls, let alone best girls
>>
>>2770288
Best girls relative to Quistis and Rinoa.
>>
>>2770094
>still clinging onto that debunked theory

https://kotaku.com/is-squall-really-dead-final-fantasy-producer-addresses-1800007113
>>
A plot so bad in a series loved by such smart people that they invent wild theories for decades to try to rectify the cognitive dissonance. Incredible thing, really.
>>
>>2770094
>Rinoa
I didn't like a single girl in this game but especially Rinoa. She's such a basic bitch it's unreal, in fact the entire game is filled with tons of basic boring bitches. My entire school life was filled with basic bitch experiences, you know the type of chick that thinks zodiacs is a personality.
>>
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>>2770094
First of all, a sorceress has no need to junction a G.F.
If anything, Ultimecia junctioning herself unto Griever would give the G.F. amnesia.
In fact, feeding G.F.s amnesia greens makes them forget abilities.

Further supporting the theory that Ultimecia is actually suppose to be Artemisia, as in artemisia absinthium a.k.a Wormwood. Which is used to create absinthe.

Using alcoholic beverages as a design scheme is actually pretty common. And in FF8 developer interviews, they laughed about Kitase's use of cocktails for color design. The yellow-red "sunset" gradient of the logo of Squall and Rinoa is one example.
We also know that the main scenario was inspired by The Wizard of Oz, with the main antagonist being the wicked witch of the west. With Esthar being the Emerald City.
>>
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>>2770835
Rinoa and her dog are essentially Dorthey (who fell from a star; hence the motif). So there's no doubt that Rinoa and Ultimecia were suppose to be different people.
However even Kitase recognizes R=U interpretation as making sense.
>>
Ackshually when they killed Ulti they broke the universe, the meeting spot was the orphanage (not just for these two dorks) in case they got blown through time and such, which they did
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I don't think Rinoa = Ultimecia works because of how time compression is introduced. It's one of my favorite theories and I think it improves the game, but the logic isn't there.

>Ultimecia compresses time, merging the past present and future
>Everything that changes during this folding is then reflected in its era but not throughout history

This is shown when Squall's younger self appears, confirming that you're existing in tandem with your other selves.

>Edea is able to take the idea of SeeD and Ultimecia's powers
>When time uncompresses these things remain true, while Ultimecia's death is also confirmed through the ceasing of her historic meddling

Odine and others in Esthar assert that Ultimecia has yet to be born. That means her future self existing is a constant event that hasn't been changed so her era still comes to pass. What Rinoa's involvement in that is is unknown, but we can reason that Ultimecia inherits her own powers along with Adel and Edea's branches of the sorceress 'bloodline' at some indeterminate point in the future. Every sorceress that inherits from Rinoa onward has a compounding of their own power due to Ultimecia hording it at the end of the world. This is why she has corrupted sorceresses in her basement, those that don't want to give up their powers - when they DO die, the powers will automatically pass to her.

It's a feedback loop for Ultimecia that doesn't pay-off (unless there's a Stephen King Dark Tower epilogue ending out there somewhere). If the same events come to pass then there will always be an Ultimecia born in the future that compresses time at the end of the world. What that world looks like when things go back to normal and she's dead is unknown, but sorceress magic has been removed from that world (along with a bulk of human life).
>>
>>2770094
>be japs working crunch time in a souless nihon work cruncher corporate slavery
>publisher and upper management pressures you to work faster and finish your game
>decide to use the same base model for Ultimecia to basically save time
>decades later autismos come up with a retarded theory about how your decisions were extremely deep and it nuanced the story in an intricate way
literally death of the author
its funny to see I'll give you that
>>
>>2770842
It's not even a stretch to connect a falling star with Artemisia. Because "The Wormwood Star" is a biblical prophesy of the end times, when a fallen star would turn all the water bitter, hence "wormwood", a bitter grass.

Some people believe it predicted Chernobyl. And isn't Ultimecia's "k" accent funny?

Technically Adel is more of a "fallen star". And in some sense, Adel, Rinoa, and Ultimecia all had their consciousness in the same body at some point in Adel's past.

Dr.Odine was worried about Adel's consciousness overpowering the others. But there's little to no dialogue towards the end to confirm this. However, as Ellone is bring back Rinoa from Adel's Past, we see 3 colors exit Rinoa. Blue, Pink, and Red. Only blue, Rinoa, returns.

During time compression, Rinoa says "I'll probably disappear". It's not clear what she meant or why she said it, unless she is linked to Ultimecia in some fundamental way.
>>
>>2770893
She seems to take them over by basically removing their soul, when the sorceresses lose it and attack stuff it's basically just Ultimecia doing it from what I remember, this is implied even more with Rinoa having all those out of body experiences

We unfortunately didn't get to see a huge difference because the game ends after she dies, but with the power to change time being so successful it makes sense they would safely remove her from the future and keep the present the same. I was under the impression they basically got back to the orphanage just fine, which is how most of the FF's from the period end
>>
>>2770288
Best is relative. Even in a game without good girls, one is inevitably still better than the rest and thus the best.
>>
>>2770913
Those sorceresses in the basement are those at the end of their life who refused to let go of their magic, leading to their corruption. Ultimecia is suffering the same early stage effects going off of her arms and legs. Adel's body and Edea's facial veins. I want to say this is explained by Edea loosely at the end of the game at the orphanage. Interesting connection to draw with Rinoa's early piloting though, I figured that was more due to Rinoa's sorceress form being more primal and unrealized so Ultimecia couldn't connect to her as stably as she did Edea.
>>
>>2770933
I always figured it was Ulti, not the magic, doing the corruption

Esthar for instance used magic fairly well, but it also makes sense that natural magic would be more unstable
>>
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>>2770835
>>2770907
I suspect this is tied up conceptually with FF7 and it's green mako pools. Jenova being a "calamity from the sky".

It's sorta implied that the Ancients as well as Jenova were extra terrestrial. Although we see the planet with strobing green streams of Mako - there is subtext that this green stuff was not naive to this planet. Transplanted by ancients. That this planet's spiritual energy was actually Red.
But that's coming from some dummy text regarding Summon Materia and who the planet belongs to.

You've probably heard that Edea was a recycled unused character from FF7. What you need to know is that, during development "Jenova" wasn't always Space AIDS. It started out as dormant part of the human brain (or genes) responsible for ESP, Telepathy, Telekinesis ect...
Edea's character in FF7 would have lived in a forest (I believe Gongaga, Zack didn't even exist in this early concept). And Fujin and Raiden (Also recycled from FF7) would have specialized in finding people with these special abilities. Just like how they look for Ellone in FF8. I believe Edea had an ability like the Keystone, aka Key Materia, used to enter the temple of the ancients.

Remember that? You placed the keystone on the altar and sunk into the ground. You ended up getting it from Dio in Gold Saucer. Which is shaped like a tree - which is a completely different development story.

Anyways, this "Key" Ability is still seen used by Edea in FF8. As she walks through walls and sinks through floors. What's not immediately obvious was Ultimecia's intent to use Edea's "Key" ability to unlock Adel's Tomb.
She may have even used it on Squall when he is pierced by her ice spell.
Meaning Ultimecia didn't have complete control over Edea, and needed to pass her powers over to Rinoa (or anyone else) and keep them unconscious.
>>
>>2770972
Which probably means Time Compression was a unique ability specific to Adel.
And actually these "special genetics" and "keystones" were plot elements used in Xenogears and Chrono trigger, which were developed in parallel with FF7. And "Arbiters of Fate" were also used in Chrono Cross. Fate being a super computer.

Rinoa's coma was never really explained.
But neither was Kid's in Chrono Cross, after defeating FATE, when Harle stole the Frozen Flame.

Kid, grew up in an orphanage that was burned down by Lynx and...maybe Harle? It's open to interpretation, but I think Harle changed got the frozen flame and altered Kid's past.

Rinoa was the only one that didn't grow up in the orphanage. But there may be some plot details left out. Like some near death experience.
>>
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>>2770985
I'd bet my life that FF8 had an underwater portion planned, and ended up using the FMV for Time Compression.
>>
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>>2770986
They did. The submarine would have been Norg's Pod.
I was surprise. I kind imagined NORG as this fatass with diabetes that needed the pod like a scooter and monitor his blood sugar.

But after giving it a second thought, it makes more sense that he docked with the Garden after it was adrift in the ocean. The rest of the Shumi Tribe also live deep underground with lots of aquariums. But it's likely the Shumi Village was suppose to be an underwater culture.

I suspect you were meant to visit the Shumi Village via sub, some time before crashing into F.H. Or perhaps while the Garden is being repaired.
Besides the Garden, the pod likely docked with F.H. inner fishing area. And the pond area in Shumi Village via some underwater tunnel. Maybe the harbors in Dollet and Balamb too. Coincidently, NPCs in F.H. have a lot to say about the Shumi Tribe because they're craftsmen as well. The Master Fisherman from F.H. also appears in the Shumi Side-quest.
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>>2771035
On the FF8 concept map, there is no Shumi Village. But there is a "Master Village" located east of Trabia Garden.

After the F.H. concert and you gain control of the Garden there is a small window of time where Selphie doesn't join the part. This is so you can't visit Trabia Garden before Balamb.

The availability of a underwater pod might changed some of the progression. But also make a lot more sense. For example. Galbadia has a navy fleet out looking for Ellone. We never SEE the ship, but that's why they White SeeD ship picked up Ellone while the Garden was adrift. Later, the White SeeDs mention Galbadia's fleet cornering them just before Esthar ships showed up and took Ellone away.

Having the pod means Ellone wouldn't have had to go with the white SeeDs. And could have evaded Galbadia so much easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puEXCyqkEKA

It's possible there was another party split at this point too. Where Selphie would have taken the pod to the "Master Village" in order to get to Trabia Garden.
Meanwhile Galabia's Garden was in Balamb's Harbor. So you might have used the pod to sneak-in there too.

Some underwater sites to see would include the underwater train tunnel connecting Balamb and Timber. The Underwater Tower aka the Deep Sea Research Center. The submerged Lunatic Pandora. Pupu's crashed UFO similar to Starky's in Chrono Cross.
Possibly something akin to FF3's Une's Cave, perhaps another sorceress to explain Rinoa's condition. Matoya's cave - who in FF1 made a potion to wake a sleeping prince - who then gives you a magic key.
>>
????
>>
>>2771337
If you're new to /vrpg/ you should know that ff8 threads involve speculations like this that fall outside the game's narrative and explore the developer's train of thought based on stuff from development interviews and parallels with other Square games.

So if you're going to say Ultimecia is Rinoa with amnesia...well, story-wise it doesn't make sense that Rinoa would keep junctioning G.F.s after becoming a sorceress. She doesn't need their power.
However, across Squaresoft games you do see similar transformations. Like Serge's Father in Chrono Cross becaming Lynx due to the Fate Supercomputer altering his brain.

The equivalent to the Fate supercomputer might be Dr.Odine's Junction Machine Ellone. Although we never see the J.M.E. you could reason that it (rather than G.F.s) changed Rinoa into Ultimecia.
>>
Speculating about FF8 lore is about as retarded as speculating about KH lore. Every schizo in this thread has thought more about either of them than the original writers did.
>>
Dunno why fans speculate about R=U or Squall is dead when the themes as presented are good enough.
It's an interesting look at fatalism and how if true, it is impossible to fight against.
>>
Oh, an FF8 thread! That's fun, I'll just -
>It's that idiotic and debunked shit
Aww. Sorry about the brain damage, OP.
>>
>>2770094
R=U is wrong for a number of reasons, but the flaw specifically in yours is that Griever doesn't exist until Ultimecia pulls it from Squall's mind during the final fight so it can't explain any memory loss for Rinoa.
>>
>>2770094
She’s Ultie
>>
>>2771542
She's not
>>
Anyone else ever read that Altimate Rewrite fanfic that got abandoned right at the end?
>>
>>2771553
Correct.
Younger = better
>>
I hate how even though Quistis is supposed to be only 18 her design choice, her horrible clothes, hair, glasses and role as teacher all make her look like a (single) mom/cougar going after young Squall (and he being grossed out by her).
>>
>>2771974
Based Selphie appreciator
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>>2772093
omg I love the fanart

Yes, Selphie is the best girl
>>
>>2771389
bro that's the entire fun of FFVII-IX

the worldbuilding was so good it's untouchable

mfw wandering around balamb garden which becomes your fucking airship bruh
>>
>>2772098
FFVII and IX were the ones with decent world building. VIII never was.
>>
>>2771646
Trains run on time
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>>2771373
>ff8 threads involve speculations
More like schizo-kun always hijacks every thread even vaguely related to FF8.
>>
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>>2772103
Agreed. With all this talk of developer interviews and such, I want to also remind people that having to go outside X to consume X is poor storytelling.

With both XIII and IX, their endings left a lot of major information unanswered and that was frustrating. Don't take that as me being a IX-hater though, I love that game and its themes.
>>
>>2772654
right, the schizo the believes everyone contributing to the topic is the same person.
And the "real" posters are the mindless bots that have nothing to say except "I like...I agree...I meme..."
>>
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>>2771974
>>2772093
Selphie is so fresh and spunky she makes me diamonds whenever she's on screen.
>>
>>2772773
You'll learn to differentiate the schizo's posts from the rest eventually, newfriend.
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>>2771978
to be fair she could be a 45 year old cougar with her last egg revving up for a final drop- and then totally forget because of GFs and think you're still 18
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>>2770835
Isn't a sorceress technically junctioning Hyne or something like that? Like, their power comes from the castoff of a god, which is why it must be passed down and the host cannot die.
>>
>>2774591
Yeah, something to do with him giving humanity half of himself but it was the weaker half and it's hidden within the sorceress'
>>
>>2770928
ok, then i pick posessed edea, because at least she's hot
>>
>>2770288
You area lying filthy whore.
Quistis is top tier waifu
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>>2770094
whore
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>>2775106
>pathetic incompetent sperg that got cucked by a floozy
>best girl
lmao
>>
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>>2775139
Brah she's a teacher, wants to jump on her students dick and has glasses. What are we even arguing about here
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>>2775158
i'm sorry, i don't find girls who reek of desperation hot
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>>2775160
>i don't find girls who reek of desperation hot
yet this guy is over here simping for Rinoa and Selphie.
shamefur dispray
>>
>>2775186
like i said - ff8 has not a single girl worth simping for
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>>2775199
Lemme guess you think Rinoa and her basic bitch self is hot shit. What a pleb
>>
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>>2774591
The way the old man in Balamb tells it, Hyne was a god who created humans.
On the white SeeD ship, the legend is that Hyne was a magician. Neither version mentions the sorceresses.

It's only thing connecting them to Hyne is the title "Hyne's Descendent".

Nojima wrote a short story, of a class room lecture on the "Magic of Hyne". It's uncertain whether Sorceress' magic is Hyne's magic. In the story, the teacher believed Hyne's magic is the power of suggestion, dreams, fantasy, delusion.

Many people believe the part of Hyne casting off his skin is a references to Hyne in FF3, who had no skin.
It might be worth noting that without skin he'd have no eyelids and couldn't sleep. Or if he did, it would be with his eye's open.

The old man in balamb ended his story with a weird detail saying "It may even be watching you right now". Hard to say how early the "Eyes On You" song was planned for FF8.

Hanging up in the old man's house is a ship's steering wheel. But in Japanese they'd call that a "handle". Hyne and Handle are close enough in Japanese to be a pun.
It's not evident in the English version, but in Japanese it's said a witch is a "vessel" for this power. Vessel like a ship. As the legend goes, the half they received from from Hyne wouldn't obey their command. As if to say, they didn't have a steering wheel.

This would also be a story parallel with the events of FF8, where the Garden is adrift with no control.

What's interesting is that both Cid's Office, and the command room in have sails or sheets. but no other controls. Which might suggest that, among the Centra Civilization, Sorceresses were pilots for their mobile forts aka the Gardens. Which is not unlike some Babylonian culture, that revered woman as the pillar of their community, a mast in a sense. The wind that fills their sails and propels them forward.
>>
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>>2775251
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEEEEL!

(That's from a country song.)
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>>2775257
Oooh. I've done it. I've cracked the code.
I've...become a summoner.
>>
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>>2775259
>>
You guys know the tradition of breaking a champagne bottle on a ship during it's maiden voyage? Superstition says, if the bottle doesn't break, the ship and passengers are cursed.
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dEu29RY44
Go now if you want it. An otherworld awaits you.
Don't you give up on it.You bite the hand that feeds you.
All alone cold fields you wander
Memories of it cloud your sight
Fills your dreams, disturbs your slumber
Lost your way - a fallen knight
Hold now aim is steady. An otherworld awaits you.
One thousand years--you ready? The otherworld it takes you.
Go go into the sand and the dust and the sky
Go now no better plan than to do or to die
Free me. Pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me. Fill me with sin now get ready to fight
You know you will
You know you will
You know you know you know you know that you will
You know you know you know you know that you will
You know you will
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Fight fight fight
Hope dies and you wander The otherworld it makes you
Dreams they rip asunder The otherworld it hates you
Free now ride up on it Up to the heights it takes you
Go now if you want it An otherworld awaits you
>>
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>>2775282
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>>2775261
remember remember the 5th of November
the gunpowder, treason, and plot
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Rinoa is Ultimecia. Didn’t read the thread.
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>>2775282
Fuck, is that Yu Yevon?
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>>2770094
Translation is shit so it’s pointless to make theories on this game
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>>2775304
The connects between FF8 and FF10 is quite a deep rabbit hole. It gets deeper once you know about the cut content.

The Centra Ruins in FF8 is basically a prototype for The Cloister of Trials in FF10.

FF9 has "Active Time Events" that would pop up at certain points in the story, where you could witness something that was happening elsewhere.

FF10 would have had a "delustion" or "daydream" system similar to this. Where Tidus would imagine what is happening else where. For example, he can't go into the chamber of the Fayth so he tries to imagine what Yuna is doing in there. Only the player gets to choose what he fantasizes about.
A remnant of this in the final game, are Tidus' dreams. Which he stops having after a certain point in the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkXazfQeg14
>>
>>2775326
That's intrigues me, I'll better start digging. Only connection I was aware between X and other games in the series was quite obvious and 'in your face' Shinra kid.
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So at the end of FF8 Ultimecia summons the strongest being Squall can think of.

I don't think it's actually "Griever" you're fighting.
Not any more than Gozer, in Ghostbusters, is the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

It just manifested as whatever they were thinking. In the movie they say Gozer was a sumerian god. But none of that is true. However the name "Gozer" did come from a documented poltergeist haunting, where the name "Gozer" appear around a house.
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>>2775368
"Poltergeist" is one of the names give in the Warring Triad in FF6. Alternatively it was called Demon. In concept art it was given the name Zurvan, which would later be it's name in FF14.

"Zurvan" was also the named dropped at the end of Chrono Cross as "The sea of dreams" or the Sea that dreams return to.
The name comes the Persian God of infinity and keeper of time, like the Greek Chronos. Zurvan is depicted with wings and a lion head.
So what Squall imagines as the most powerful force is "Time".
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>>2775370
The final dungeon in Chrono Cross is Terra Tower, Which was displaced from an alternate timeline where reptites evolved rather than humans. Or the apes that would become humans anyways.
So just before you fight the Dragon God. You climb these steps, with impaled monkey heads.

Now, the "Sea of Dreams" business kind of comes out of nowhere. But it's likely loosely related to a creation story told in the Dragon Fort, about life coming out of the sea, and primates discovering lavos and evolving. In the same way that we think of cavemen discovering fire.
So there's this Prometheus mythos going on.

FFX also plays with a sea of dream concept. And in FFX-2 Last Mission, the Gullwings climb a tower that's seemed to belong to Snake men or something. And at the top, there's an image that looks like Sin.
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In FF8, junctioned G.F.s occupy a region of the brain. Which is why they cause memory loss.

Instincts and impulses are all part of what is known as the reptilian brain.

The Warring Triad of FF6 could represent the Triune brain of the brain. A concept popularized by Carl Sagan's book "Dragons of Eden". A hypothosis that early man evolved to deal with reptiles and that the dragons of our imaginations is inhereted trait that shapes our behaviors.
In FF6, the dragons emerge after Kefka absorbs the Warring Triad.

So you have the Reptilian complex, which are impulses like aggression, habits, and rituals.
This is, I think Zurvan, or "Poltergeist", because it deals with object permanence. You put your keys in the same place every day without thinking. Then one day they're gone. Where did you put them? Why did you leave them somewhere else? Some people are so habitual, they refuse to believe it was them, and someone or something must have move them.

Then you have the Paleomammalian complex. These are more evolved instincts and behaviors involved in socializing. This would be the "Fiend", which was also named "Doom" and even "Sephiroth" in concept art.

And then the Neomammalian complex. Further evolved skills regarding language, planning, and perception. That would be "The Goddess", also called Sophia. "Wisdom". Who was the mother of the demiurge in Gnosticism.

In FF7, "Jenova" was suppose to be a dormant part of the brain that allowed for ESP and such. Back in the 80's a term for people with mental powers were called "Espers" from ESP. Infact, I think in the early SaGa series (aka Final Fantasy Legend), "mutants" were called "Espers" in Japanese.
Espers or Mutants are just humans with magic. They can also make themselves "compatible" with other lifeforms. Kind of like jötunn in Norse mythology. A mechanic with Espers is that they can consume monster meat, or cybernetics, and change into monsters or robots.
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>>2775403
>Triune brain of the brain
*Triune model of the brain.

Adel and the rest of Esthar could even be Espers/mutants. The Esthar soldiers are "cyborgs" after all. Adel has pointy ears.

Although maybe Sorceresses and Espers are different things? Adel had the powers of a Sorceress. But suffice to say she was different in a lot of ways.

I think Adel, Rinoa, and Ultimecia are just another Warring Triad. Ultimecia's Planning, and Rinoa's social dependency fit the complexes at least. The only one we don't get to see is Adel.
>>
>>2770288
Best girl in any Final Fantasy ever is Rydia. Dagger is okay too, but definitely not best.

Celes is pretty hot, too.

But yeah, Rydia goddess-tier.
>>
>>2775251
"Hyne's Descendent" is supposedly a title of respect. Which seems to conflict with everything else we know about Hyne and Sorceresses.
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>>2770972
>What you need to know is that, during development "Jenova" wasn't always Space AIDS. It started out as dormant part of the human brain (or genes) responsible for ESP, Telepathy, Telekinesis ect...
Parasite Eve
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>>2775484
Close. Parasite Eve involved mitochondria which is passed down from the mother. It was based on a J-horror book. Like, The Ring. Although I don't think Parasite Eve was ever adapted into a horror movie. And even "The Ring" adaptions and sequels leave out that parts about genetics.

We can suppose that the Sorceresses power is like Mitochondria DNA, in that it's passed down by mothers. The theory is that mitochondria started out as bacteria that ended up in a symbiotic relationship.

So when Chrono Cross gets into the evolution of life, it involves single-cell organisms and jellyfish. And when it talks about dragon gods as "plasma entities" there's 2 interpretations. Plasma as in fire or stars. Or plasma in the cellular sense.

So Chrono Cross had a theme with reptiles, dinosaurs, dragons.
And FF8 had a theme with flowers. Flowering plants actually evolved after mammals. Before that, planets like ferns, reproduced with spores rather than seeds. Seeds being fertilized eggs with a protective shell that lay dormant. In FF9, the plant monsters in the Evil Forest release spores upon death.

The sorceresses power might be similar to spores.
It's been mentioned before that Edea was originally designed for FF7 and that she was meant to live in a forest. Although FF7 had a number of forests, it's not certain which one. But there is the ancient forest. Ancient in the sense that it was before seeds.
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>>2775690
It might be worth nothing just how preoccupied the 90's were with AIDS and homosexuality.
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Raijin in FF8 has an interest in bugs. Based on his overdue library books (Insect Guide | Color Edition) and the odd notice by the Discipline Committee to report any unusual bug sightings. Likely posted by Raijin himself. Although you have to wonder where the developers were going with Norg's Cocoon.

As you know, flowers attract insects to pollenate the plant. They have various methods. For example, Orchids release a scent molecule identical to the sex attractant of female African Beetles. Their petals also resemble a female in a mating position. So basically, they use males to pollenate themselves. But only for a few weeks before the females have come out of the ground. After all, the Orchids needs the beetles to reproduce as well.

It's hard to say how much of Fujin and Raijin's personalities were planned and carried over from FF7. But given their names, they must have had some connection to Wutai - or an early version of it anyways. The Wutai region has bug monsters. Like Silk worms, naturally. But also electric horned beetles.

An overlooked detail in FF8 is that Ellone hates bugs. Winhill was full of Bite-Bugs and Caterchipillar. The nicknames Laguna uses are suppose to be a onomatopoeia for the sounds they make. And in the training center she is attacked by a Granaldo. They're actually attracted to her. Something to do with a "frequency" she emits when she uses her power.
But her powers are never really explained. But like a pitcher plant, she seems to attract insects and put people to sleep.
It might also be loosely connect to summoners in FFX, manipulating pyerflies.
"Phantom Light Bugs". Kind of like Star Wars Midi-chlorians.
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>>2775791
In an early draft of FFX, it was the Guado who spoke a different language, not the Al Bhed. When Tidus first arrives in Spira he finds a sphere of Seymour and his Mother, but he can't understand what they're saying. It seems the craft of creating Fayth Statues was a Guado art. At the very least they tend to the Farplane, which Seymour mentions has a unique scent. The pyerflies there recreate images of the dead from memory.

It's a similar concept seen in Vagrant Story, only it's "Snowflies" instead of "pyerflies" and they follow the flow of The Dark™, instead of the Moonflow. The Dark is responsible for magic, undead, and awakening psychic powers.

Speaking of memories, It's a recurring thing in the final fantasy series for memory loss/retrieval to be accompanied with the appearance of an antlion.
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>>2775795
Technically, the antlions we fight are not antlions at all. Antlions are the adult stage that look like dragonflies. The form that burrows in sand holes are called doodlebugs.
The symbolism needs to be explained in English because when we think of amnesia, we don't phrase it as "lost time" or "missing time" like they do in Japan. The doodlebug's sandtrap resembles sand falling through an hourglass.
Doodlebug is also a name for people who like to draw. It's also an electric railcar (like the forest owl base)
>>
Looks like schizophrenia is back in the menu, boys!
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>>2775802
In FF9 you fight the antlion in Cleyra. Shortly after, Sir Frately - who has amnesia - appeared. He says he can't explain it but suddenly he had a vision of his home.
Frately Irontail is just another chapter Square's book of incomplete narratives.
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>>2775803
Cannibals need to watch out for prion disease.
They eat holes in your brain. Making you forgetful or even go crazy. Wendigos are a cautionary tale of cannibalism among American Indians. They're taught that during a famine it's better starve than eat each other. Because you become possessed by the Wendigo Spirit and live a cursed life. Nothing will ever satisfy you.
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Wendigos in FF8 are found around Deling City and Galabdia's Canyon region.

They're headless monsters.
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>>2775844
They also appear in FF12's Sochen Cave Palace. The bestiary reads:

"In ancient times, certain tribes would sever the heads of the fallen, and commit the body to a watery burial. By eating the heads of lost family, it was believed that one could bind their souls as protective spirits. Such practices have long been abandoned, but its legacy may be seen in the sodden corpses since risen to gouge the earth in search of buried kin."
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>>2775854
>>
>>2775803 There are three type of people in this thread : Schizo-kun, people who whine about schizo-kun and people who come here to say the game is garbage or that any theory is false without argumentation. Guess who i like to read ?
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>>2776127
They're still butt hurt.
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>>2775690
I read long ago that originally FF7 was set in New York and the main character was a detective. Aya Brea looks like a female Cloud.
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>>2776166
https://arch.b4k.co/vrpg/search/image/q_6V59szwZNIkFgFIhfMfg/
Still demented.
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>>2776166
R=U chad-bros, we can’t stop winning. We literally can’t.
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>>2776244
>Laguna being Squall's parent isn't confirmed either but everyone accepts it.
This is sexism.
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>>2776244
Ah the last groans of a dying paradigm, can’t stop the spring of R=U revolution
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You say, thinking this level of autism extends outside of this thread, lmao.
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>>2776302
You say, to nobody, because nobody is here for your company. But you keep comping back for theirs.

Bet you don't even sage your shitposts.
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>>2776450
Exactly. Nobody. Only a schizo talking to himself. I'll go back to ignoring, just like everybody else. Proceed, schizo. You have some talking to yourself to do. Years later.
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>>2776748
Don't forget to take a screenshot. Reflect on your social life. Your words. Your emotions.

Time...it will not wait. No matter how hard you hold on, it escapes you.
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>>2776302
>You say, thinking this level of autism extends outside of this thread, lmao.

yeah, one guy REALLY likes R=U despite being officially debunked:
https://kotaku.com/is-squall-really-dead-final-fantasy-producer-addresses-1800007113
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>>2778733
What Kitase really says is the Rinoa and Ultimecia weren't planned to be the same person. Hell, any of the girls were potential sorceress reflecting the player's choices.
He is forced to admit that he didn't make the game. The final treatment was done by someone else he's probably never stood in the same room with.
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>>2778821
In the Dissida coverage on Rinoa, he talks about how He, Nojima, and Nomura all had different visions of who Rinoa even is.

She's not capable. She's not competent. She can't do anything herself. Her moe factor can't last forever. She really did get in the way and cause more problems than she solved.
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Did you miss me?
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>>2770094
kek, quistisfags are so anal broke after all these years they have to write fan fictions on 4chan
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>>2776801
>next level schizout
wew lad
>>
I want one fucking FF8 thread without that schizophrenic guy.
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>>2781112
It makes sense for Rinoa/Ultimecia (while remote controlling Edea) to choose Seifer as her knight because you know, Seifer was her first choice (ouch), Squall only getting a piece when Seifer already deflowered and dumped her.
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>>2781490
Not happening. He's been at this for over 2 years.
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>>2781687
>It makes sense for Rinoa/Ultimecia (while remote controlling Edea) to choose Seifer as her knight because you know, Seifer was her first choice (ouch), Squall only getting a piece when Seifer already deflowered and dumped her.
I've got a theory regarding that. FF8 is the second iteration of a time loop:

>In the first loop, Seifer stays with Rinoa after their "summer of love"
>Rinoa becomes the sorceress known as Ultimecia
>Seifer becomes Ultimecias knight
>Ultimecia sends her consciousness in to the past
>Her consciousness arrives at the first point in time she encountered Seifer, their "summer of love",
>Seifer can feel that Rinoa is not (at this time) Ultimecia
>Kicks her to the curb
>FF8 begins

It also explains why Ultimecia/Edea has such a hold of Seifer, when she first went in to the past Seifer was already her Knight.
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>>2781815
You know, I think there's only 2 or 3 places where Seifer and Rinoa's relationship is even brought up.
• On the Forest Owl base, she asks if Seifer is with them.
• Then around Timber and at Galbadia Garden.
• During Seifer 2nd Fight, if Rinoa is in the party he'll say something.

That was his whole reason for attacking the President. But they don't dwell on his motivations very long because he becomes entranced soon after.
But you can tell the developers had more plans.
Rinoa was in the FF8 demo - she didn't speak but she replaced Selphie in the FMV. In Japanese Rinoa and Selphie have a similar speech pattern. And based off of developer interviews, I suspect Selphie, Rinoa, and Ellone were all mixed up in the same character.

We know Selphie's portrait was created first, right after Squall, so originally she had greater importance. I believe she was meant to be "Sis".
Because even though the game had a young Ellone, you never see her in the orphanage with Squall. And you can detect that in Irvine's Flashback. He says Squall was hogging "Sis" to himself - a weird thing to say when he was talking about Selphie.
We know Selphie likes trains and flowers. And the thing that everyone remembers is fireworks.

When Squall first meets Rinoa at the dance. There's also fireworks. As if to say he can't remember the last time he was this happy. Then on the forest owl base, he has to wake Rinoa up in her room. A possible hint Rinoa had dream powers as well.
Of course, Seifer had his "romantic dream" he mentions in Dollet, and in Edea/Ultimecia promises to give him "dreams". In the demo disk version, Seifer says something enigmatic like "You were there" hinting that his dreams were extra ordinary.
We know Seifer was influenced by Laguna's Film. And Laguna wrote for Timber Maniacs. Data mining reveals that Edea was meant to appear in Timber Maniac's projector room. As if the "dream" she gave Seifer was really just that film+hypnotic suggestion.
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>>2781889
Ellone grew up in the flower town of Winhill. The npcs there remember her along with the Flower Festival.
This, I think, carried over into Selphie's concept and her obsession with the Garden Festival.

Then there's Quistis. She's also a "big sis" with confusing feelings for Squall. Although this character arc is limited to the after-party scene, right before they meet Ellone. Then, once they all remember the orphanage, she confesses she mistook her feelings as love.
But there's no doubt in my mind that Quistis was always a separate character from Ellone.

The game begins with Squall in the infirmary, and Ellone is just outside saying "we meet again". Oddly distant for a "sister", don't you think? Not "together again." From the developer interviews, I gather that this was not the original start of the game. There was likely a Laguna Dream at this point. Which is why Squall was reluctant to talk about his dreams to Seifer outside the Dollet Communication Tower.
Squall asks Quistis who the girl in the infirmary was, but Quistis doesn't remember seeing anyone.

So officially, according to the director, Ellone is not a sorceress. However that might not have been the case during development. And even though everything seems to revolve around Ellone, there's a pretty obvious change in direction at the start of Disc 3.
Ellone "involuntarily" connects with Squall while she's asleep and has this telepathic conversation with Squall about her vague motivations up to that point. Why Squall was her "only hope" to change history.
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>>2781935
From the start, Galbadia was invading Dollet to seize the communication tower. What's not clear is how it was all connected to Ellone. If you play the Demo Disk, the game over screen says "Their story began that morning, but actually, it's been continuing since the beginning of time."
Even though Squall and Seifer fight off the Galbadia invaders, the game is like - oh Dollet agreed to just give them the communication tower anyways.

Galbadia only wanted to broadcast - to Esthar - that they have a sorceress now. She's an "ambassador".

There's a fun theory that says for the last 17 years, Galbadia has been sending people to Esthar but no one ever made it pass Abandon; the undead monster in the Salt Lake.
So the real need for a sorceress was to get past this "defense" - if that's what you can call it. There's no explanation for the change in the salt lake between the past and present seen in Timber Maniacs.
But because Abandon is undead, and the Fake President is undead, it's possible they were remnants of Sorceress War II. And that they were originally sending "Ambassador Edea" on a good will mission to clean up these monsters.

Indeed. Edea joins the party unexpectedly, at the "sea side station" after Squall crosses the bridge alone with Rinoa. However Edea just mentions just says she wants to meet Dr. Odine about her powers.
The "sea side station" was actually meant to be the Dingo Desert Station. The D-Prison is where P. Deling sent rebels. The prison is also our first sighting of Moombas.
Edea's whereabouts at the start of disc2 are unknow, but presumably she was in D-Prison with Seifer.
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>>2781979
Potentially, there was a completely different scenerio where you escaped from prison with Edea or "Matron" and learn that she's possessed. They mention the prison had an anti-magic field or something, but that ended up being irrelevant and had no impact on the battles or anything.

It's possible Edea would have been free, temporarily, in the prison. Although it would mean Squall and Zell wouldn't have dreamed about Laguna and Ward. It the field could block Ellone as well as Ultimecia's J.M.E.
It was important for Zell at least, to operate the machines. But in a scenario with Edea, that might not have been necessary.

In FF9, there was also a submerged prison/palace call the "Desert Empress". The security system has a frame similar to what Edea wears. Zidane's party splits off and goes to the Forgotten Continent, while Cid helps the other party escape.

It's possible FF8 had a similar split. Where Selphie's group went to the missile base. Squall - with Edea - took the train to Esthar. Although Edea would inevitably be possessed again.

Anyways, the desert palace had statues of the Warring Triad. Which could be a clue about the D-Prison's 3-part design. The triangle pattern is also seen in the Deep Sea Research center with Bahamut.
There was probably a scenario similar to FF6's Gestalt Empire going after Espers. Just like Kuja was collecting Eidolons.
SeeD uses G.F.s to combat the sorceress - but they don't talk about were the G.F.s come from. Or when exactly the Odine's Junction system was developed.

In FF9, Kuja takes the stone to Mt.Gulg, a volcano, in order to extract Eiko's Eidolons. In FF8, the Gaulg Mountains are on Balamb along with the fire cavern.
>>
holy autism
>>
>>2782017
While Seifer is torturing Squall he has to leave because Galbadia is ready for the missile strike. So conveniently Seifer isn't around during their escape. But he's also not seen at the missile base.

I see an alternative scenario. Where Seifer was interrogating Squall about SeeD. Seifer never became a SeeD, it's not even clear if he wanted to be a SeeD. The discipline committee and garden staff are all called "Templars" in the French version.
Seifer mentions he's been on lots of exams, as if to say he's failed every one. But one of the prerequisists is to obtain a G.F.

So potentially, Seifer, Squall and Edea would have gone off to find a G.F., possibly revisiting the Fire Cave and delaying the Missile Strike against Balamb - explaining why the hit Trabia first.

In Stranger of Paradise, the world map looks like it did in FF1. However the locations are all ripped from "other dimensions" (other Final Fantasy Games). Like the Earth Cave is actually Rathwall's Tomb from FF12. The Fire Cave is supposedly from FF8. Although it's not all that familiar looking. FF8's Fire Cave didn't have ancient ruins and door ways. But perhaps it was suppose to.
There is an area in Stranger of Paradise called "Chamber of the Lonely Lion".
So I have to wonder if Squall and Griever were connected to the Fire Cave somehow.
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>>2782044
Ifrit is Lion-ish. Moomba-ish. His bangles are also decorated with 3 circles in a triangle, that might be related to D-Prison and the first floor of the Deep Sea Research Center.

Traditionally "Templars" are associated King Solomon's Tomb. Some times they find the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail. Solomon had a ring to command demons. There is a Solomon's Ring in FF8, but its different from Squall's Ring and connect to the Doomtrain G.F.

Speaking of trains. Rinoa says that Galbadia found the forest owl's base and blew it up. This was shortly after Seifer leaves with Edea at the TV station. Maybe too short, but it's possible Seifer gave them away. Watts and Zone ended up on the White SeeD ship, but it's not explained how they ended up there.

But I believe Watts and Zone were originally holding the G.F.s Quetzalcoatl and Shiva.
You end up getting them from the class room terminal. But based on initials, Zone may have a few posts on the Garden Network with replies from Seifer asking "Who is this?".
After the encounter with the Fake President, Zone learns about the broadcast in Timber. Possibly from Seifer over the Garden Network. Although it defies logic how Seifer and Quistis would beat them to the Timber TV Station.
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>>2781815
>>2781889
>>2781935
>>2781979
>>2782017
>>2782039
>>2782044
>>2782076
FF8 has the deepest lore!
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>>2782084
It's not really lore. But it does have deeply invested fan who are deciphering it 20 years later.
That's not really to the game's credit.

Like how the community gathers around and supports some autistic retard purely because their autistic. If FF8 told a complete story that made sense, we wouldn't be here talking about what it could have been.

For instance. Ellone is in Balamb Garden during the missile strike. She could have died. Ultimecia's Plans would have been ruined.
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>>2782084
Did you know?
Final Fantasy has a ton of Star Wars references.
Biggs and Wedge and "You're my only Hope" just to name a few.
The Moon in FF8 was basically the Death Star.

SeeDs are like the Jedi. Only instead of using The Force they use Guardian Forces.
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>>2782129
Yes. And Adel and Rinoa were basically frozen in carbonite.
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>>2782129
The Dark Omen in Chrono Trigger is basically a Star Destroyer. Digging up ancient Sith Ships was a plot line in the 90's Tales of the Jedi darkhorse comics. Particularly on a planet (or moon) called Yavin 4.
Sounds a lot like Yevon to me. Oh, and Sith amulets/talismans were a thing. One in particular was made by a Sith Alchemist named "Syn" which could possess the wearer. Hmmmmm....
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>>2782494
But I don't think anyone at Square could have known that. I mean, I haven't read any of these books. I'm just looking at wiki information.
So back in 1998 there was Jedi Academy series with Luke's new Jedi Order. And they went to Yavin 4 and killed a bunch of Leviathans that Sithspawn. Idk. Maybe FF8 took some inspiration from that.
The creator of the Leviathans would later be revealed to be an Exiled Dark-Side Jedi. But the wiki is telling me that wasn't confirmed until the Book of Sith released in 2012. Idk.

The head master of Galbadia Garden, in English, was Martine. But his name in Japanese is Dodonna - another star wars reference.
Dodonna had set up a rebel cell on Yavin 4.
This was the setting of the Rouge One movie which was all about the Death Star Blueprints, and Dodonna was the one who came up with the plan to destroy it. This was all a prelude to Episode 1.
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>>2782647
But now that I think about it, there were Star Wars games on the PS1. So devs might have had connections to some design documents.

Also, there where Star Wars Tabletop RPGs going back to the 80s. Which included the Yavin system as a setting, which seems to have evolved over the decades. Idk what plot seeds they might contain.
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>>2782924
Sith sounds like “Cid” pronounced by someone with articulation disorder. Siths work for the dark side of the Force and against the light side. The heroes in classic FF games were called the heroes of light.
Another major theme in the FF series is nature vs technology, with the heroes in the side of nature and the baddies on the side of technology. Thus nature = light side.
The heroes are always on the side of nature, with the exception of Cid, who is ever attempting to seduce the heroes into using technology (dark side).
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>>2782992
According to the law of two Siths are always found in pairs: a master and an apprentice. In Star Wars the Sith master is revealed to be the emperor himself. In FFVI Cid works for the empire and in IV and VII, for Baron and Shinra, respectively — which stand for the empire in their respective games — before he “joins” the party. Which side of the Sith dyad does Cid stand for? The apprentice, working under cover for the emperor to sabotage the party? Or as the master, looking to seduce the protagonists into joining the dark side?
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>>2783001
In FFXII Cid’s cover is blown and he’s forced to come out as an agent of the dark side. I speculate that the story that we see in XII is actually an alternate universe where we accidentally blow his cover and change the timeline, whereas in the original timeline he would’ve joined the party.
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>>2783003
Speculate comes from the Latin speculare (reflect), from speculum (mirror). Archimedes used giant mirrors to burn the sails from enemy ships. Archimedes was a scientist who used science for warfare, just like Cid. Einstein was also a scientists who used his knowledge to help create the atom bomb. Japan was attacked by nuclear bombs in WW2, creating Godzilla, which is Bahamut.
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>>2783023
A mirror reflects reality in an inverted way. Thus looking into a mirror is like looking into an alternate reality. In one of these alternate realities Cid could have been a sexy girl. I believe this is what we clearly see in FFXV.
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>>2783027
Unless their mirror is curved.

>>2783001
AKtually, the "Sith" history is quite long and alternates between the rule of one and rule of two.
To start with, Sith were a species (and sub species) with red skin and face tentacle things. In the 90's comics they had an Egyptian aesthetic, as well as a heiroglyphic language.
You know in the latest movie, Rise of Skywalker, they have a Sith Dagger with heiroglyphics. C3P0 can read it but all droids are forbidden to translate it the Sith language because of a rule passed by the Senate (Palpatine).
Over time the Sith title eventually extended to other species as they mingled with Dark-side Jedi exiles.
For example "Master Summoner" Sorzus Syn was a Dark Jedi who ended up on Yavin 4, creating Sithspawn mutants as well as alchemical amulets.
The Sith had a lot of slave races too. Like the extinct race that built the temples on Yavin 4. They're actually built over crystals.
Kyber Crystals are used in everything Sith and Jedi. They're living crystals. A lot like Final Fantasy's crystals. I don't think you really see it, but on Exegol in the final move, the sith are all torturing a mountain sized crystal.
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>>2783262
It'd be neat if FF8 had other planets to visit with the Ragnarok.

You know, older games get remade with bonus dungeons. But what does FF8 get? Nothing.
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>>2781815
>It also explains why Ultimecia/Edea has such a hold of Seifer

It's because Seifer has mommy and daddy issues and extremely easily imprints onto whatever role model or surrogate parental figure he sees. Like Laguna on TV.

The actual reasons for things in FF8 are way more interesting.
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>>2782129
>>2782148

People never talk about the movies that inspired FF8. Wizard of Oz, Jurassic Park, 2001 a Space Odyssey, Alien to name a few. I'm sure there must have been some war movies in there.
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>>2783525
>It's because Seifer has mommy and daddy issues and extremely easily imprints onto whatever role model or surrogate parental figure he sees.
So why didn't he imprint on Cid? You know, the guy raising him.
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>>2783534
>2001 a Space Odyssey
eh. It would be interesting if the J.M.E. machine was a Hal 9000. But we never see it. The only real connection Space Odyssey has with FF8 is a mysterious Radio Signal which grounded air travel for the past 17 years. It's implied that it was Adel. But the only evidence for that is the message on the Timber TV Screen "Iwillneverletyouforgetaboutme"

>A quick recap of Space Odyssey 2001 and 2010
They find a monolith on the moon. It's sending a signal to Jupiter. So they send a crew to Jupiter with a HAL 9000 computer. The AI kills nearly everyone. It is explained in the following novel that it was resolving a contradiction in it's program. It was given secret information - a message for the crew (who don't know about the monolith yet). But the HAL computer doesn't keep secrets.
Anyways, David, the last member continues the mission alone and finds a bigger monolith floating around Jupiter. It sucks him into this other dimension, a room similar to The Caraway Mansion in FF8. We see him age rapidly. Then become an embryo. The movie ending is stupid.
But in the 2010 Space Odyssey novel, the alien intelligence turns Jupiter into a star by increasing it's mass. Earth names it Lucifer. David exists as some kind of incorporeal being within the monolith. And relays a message from the aliens (we never see) that all the worlds are theirs (earth/humans) except Europa which has some primitive aquatic life, presumably the aliens plan to foster and evolve to greater intelligence.
It jumps ahead some 19000 years, Humans have colonize the other moons or "worlds". The lifeforms on Europa (only described as having tentacles) have started to explore the other side of Europa that faces away from Jupiter/Lucifer, allowing them to see the stars, the other moons, and the Sun, Sol. Which they call the "Cold Sun" because it's on the dark frozen side of their world.
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>>2784012
>A summary of Space Odyssey 2061
2061 follows, Floyd, the man who discovered the monolith on the moon. Only now he's much older, over 100, making a celebrity appearance to this event where they land on Haley's comet as it passes by Europa.
But then some Russian saboteurs make it crash into Europa instead. Requiring a rescue mission. Even though they were forbidden by the aliens not to land.
The Russians were really just interested in this "Mt. Zeus" that appeared on Europa. It's actually a giant diamond that was ejected from Jupiter when it became a star. They're worried about the diamond market. Lol. Well, the rescue mission was successful. However Floyd has his consciousness copied by a monolith containing David. Which, ugh, raises questions.
But anyways, David and Floyd talk about how there was life on both Jupiter and Europa, and the monoliths weight their potential and turned Jupiter into a star for Europa's sake. So while the Russians value Diamonds, these aliens valued "mind" and are essentially farming it by terraforming worlds to give life a better chance to evolve.
They conclude that one day, Earth will be weighted against the Europa.
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>>2784062
>Space Odyssey 3001
(publishing a few years before FF8) we learn that the Aliens have actually imbedded themselves into the fabric of Space Time, they've forgotten about the monoliths (or just some of them) that have just been on auto-pilot this whole time. Think the Fal'Cie.
The frozen body of the astronaut that Hal9000 killed is discovered and revived. The story follows him. Earth has Brain-Computer interfaces now, and Dinosaur servants. Wild! They send the astronaut to Europa thinking he'll be permitted to land there.
He talks with David - who is merged with Hal9000 within this Monoloth Matrix, along with other intelligences, saying that there is a giant monolith some lightyears away. They believe a message had been sent (during the 20th century wars) that Humanity has failed as a species and their days are numbered. The monoliths self replicate into a screen to block the sunlight from earth. But using David as a trojan horse, they upload a virus to destroy the monoliths. Although they also create a petabyte(1000 terrabytes) storage device to save the thought-forms within the monolith matrix, and keep it in a vault on the moon. The Monolith Makers won't determine humanity's fate until the "final days" (of the universe presumably).
Which is weird because they're embedded in space-time. So that might just mean that humans, or the human-mind at least, continued with the universe. Maybe even escaping to another space-time.
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Why is Rinoa so unpopular?
>is it because she doesn’t wear revealing clothes?
But Aeris and Yuna don’t either and they’re popular.
>is it because of her personality
Rikku and Penelo have no personalities and they have a following. You can’t claim you like a JRPG girl/waifu because of her personality and then say you like Rikku and Penelo.
>is it because of her game?
Probably. VIII gets a lot of shit lately.
And finally why does this post-plastic-surgery Rinoa (pic related) completely dominates Google image search? She looks like a different person. Is that SE’s attempt to make her look prettier?
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>>2784077
Yes, she's so unpopular. That's why Quistis appears in the Dissidia games.
OH WAIT~
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>>2784097
Spin-off games are supposed to feature the main characters of each mainline game and she is the love interest of the protagonist in VIII. That doesn’t say anything about her popularity with the fans. It also features onion knight lmao.
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>Ex-Boyfriend comes to kill you, but you don't recognize him

You forgot...

>You come back to kill you, but you don't recognize you
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>>2784170
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>>2784000
He was a lame boring regular dad but Seifer saw Laguna as a celebrity hero and a knight and Edea was a badass sorceress who made everyone dance like Micheal Jackson. And he could be her knight and be like Laguna.


>>2784012
When they're in space the music is 2001ish from the movie but I cant remember much. Lunatic Pandora is monolithish and related to the moon. It's just surface level stuff.
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>>2784281
I do believe there was a lot more to Adel. Kitase talked about his initial opening scene idea would have had a flyby of Adel's Tomb in space.

Adel was suppose to be fought at the end of Disc3 so there was a sorceress battle at the end of each disc. But she got moved to the beginning of Disc4.
You were suppose to get 40AP and a Samantha Soul from Adel as a reward - but you don't receive it because there is no result screen.

4 discs. 4 named sorceresses, Edea, Rinoa, Adel, and Ultimecia. However you fight Edea twice. Once at the parade and a second time inside Galbadia Garden. Shortly before that is when the player chooses the name Griever for Squall's ring, and afterwards Rinoa goes into a coma after inheriting Edea's powers. Or rather, some of Edea's powers.
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>>2784306
Do you even realize that you don't even reply to what people are saying?
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>>2784306
Let's suppose Rinoa became a sorceress at the end of Disc 1. She leaves the party, possessed by Ultimecia, and Edea takes her place in the party

For starters, the revelation that they all grew up in an orphanage together would happen a lot sooner. And we'd probably learn more about what was compelling Seifer. These "dreams" and Ellone's power.

I don't believe Edea would have known anything about Ultimecia or her plans to release Adel. The start of disc 3 always felt like a waterfall of exposition.
The whole "Odine Brand Bangle" thing might have been Quistis' plan (remembering Rinoa's plan) to deal with Rinoa as a sorceress.
The clue that Odine is in Esthar would have to come from the Laguna Dream sequences.
We first see Odine while Laguna is a slave working in the Lunatic Pandora. In the actual game you don't witness this until entering Esthar. But the dream sequence here doesn't make sense because at the start of Disc 3 Ellone had given up trying to change the past. Why then would she show Squall this now?
Plus if Edea is in the party, she collapses too, potentially giving Ultimecia what she wanted. But Edea is inexplicitly removed from the party.

I think Seifer along with the possessed Rinoa would have captured Ellone and the Esthar President (Laguna), hijacked the space station and released Adel themselves. I think Squall would have saved Rinoa in Laguna's body.

In the actual game, Galbadia captures Ellone from the escape pod. Seriously? There were multiple escape pods, and they somehow knew which one she'd be in, and were exactly it would land? No. I think Piet = Seifer.
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>>2784358
You mean Piet = Pete

The only problem with Seifer getting anywhere close to Ellone by himself, is that she could use her power on him at any time.
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>>2784309
Sorry. Forgot to mention that Adel's Tomb was a black monolith. Kitase showed his script in the same video he talked about Rinoa. On top of the mysterious radio interference that was implied to come from it/her. Just like the Monolith in Space Odyssey.

The thing to keep in mind is that it was just "a tomb" and the sorceresses got name changed. So instead of Adel inside, it might have been "Eternia".

Also, I should add that this room inside the Monolith is called the "Hotel Room".
So assuming FF8 was inspired by Space Odyssey. It might mean the sorceress inside was Julia. You know, because she used to perform in a hotel.
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>>2784379
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I think Adel was actually meant to be Doom Train. Yes, Doom Train!

More specifically, s/he was probably a Gigas. A recurring enemy in the FF series. One in particular is named Glasya Labolas - which is also a demon name in The Key of Solomon.
In fact Doom Train in Japanese is named, Gurasha Raborasu, (Glasya Labolas). Which explains why the Ring of Solomon is involved in Acquiring it.
And you get said ring at Tear's Point, which is where Adel falls to.

Glasya Labolas is an enemy in FF3's final dungeon, the Crystal Tower. Which is basically what is inside the Lunatic Pandora.
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>>2784393
We don't know exactly what happened to Raine, or why exactly Ellone was trying to change the past. She tells Squall that she wanted Laguna to stay with Raine and see his son.

This idea of a lost wife and son + Doom Train, is similar to Cyan in FF6 witnessing the ghosts of his wife and son boarding the ghost train. Elayne and Owain (Mina and Shun in japanese).

Perhaps what he sealed wasn't a Sorceress, but their spirits. Which could tie in with the Ghost in the Tomb of the Unknown King, who's spirit was trapped by the G.F. Brothers.

You know, when Laguna arrives at the Lunatic Pandora excavation site, he makes a strange comment. Questioning if this was the kind of rock they use for tombstones. Which might suggest that tombstones can trap ghosts.
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>>2784409
From concept art, we can see the gravestone Laguna stands over actually reads Julia Loire; not Raine.

It's weird to think that Squall and Rinoa would have the same Dad. But Luke and Leia in Star Wars ended up being brother and sister, so...

I mean, if Laguna was in space and knew Rinoa was his daughter, he would totally jump out to save her like Squall did.
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>>2784379
Ohhhh I was so confused why you were replying to me but now I get it. Do you have a picture of that it sounds really cool
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>>2784418
According to the the Debug Menu, there was suppose to be an FMV of Squall and Laguna watching the moon on Disc 2. This doesn't exist in the game, but it looks like part of it was used for promotional material and pages in the manual.

Laguna only appears in Disc 2 during the Winhill dream sequence. Other than that, Winhill is completely optional to visit.
The only other night time scene on Disc 2 is the F.H. concert. Although, Squall does have repeat dreams of himself in the rain at the orphanage. Ellone left the Garden before it reached F.H. and presumably got together with Laguna after leaving the SeeD ship. If she really wanted to show Laguna his son (assuming it really is Squall) she could have connected Laguna to Squall's past at this point in the story.

Then again, if instead he had a daughter - Rinoa - Ellone could have connected Laguna to her. Which might explain why Rinoa was in a coma. And then wakes up around the same time "The president" checks on Adel's tomb.
Rinoa was "cold" because she was connected to Laguna, who was flash frozen and shot into space with Ellone. Likewise, Ellone at the time involuntarily connects Squall and has this telepathic conversation with Squall in her sleep.
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>>2784437
In English Ellone says "her son" but in Japanese she just says "her child"
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>>2784365
Piet btw is another Star Wars reference.
Piet, Biggs, and Wedge also appear in Chrono Trigger.

I'm wondering if Nida was suppose to be spelled Needa. Because that would be another Star Wars reference.
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>>2784513
I just read a long article written in Japanese with an interesting interpretation.
In the Hyne Legend, humans are outraged after Hyne kills a child. In compensation, he gives them half his power. This is a god who created humans in the first place. Perhaps it goes without saying that he could have just revived the child or recreated it. If sorceresses are Hyne's decedents and can use time magic, then surely Hyne did too.
So perhaps Hyne's decedent really meant Hyne's Child. As in the child Hyne killed then revived.
That might tie in with the squall is dead theory.

There were a lot of points in favor of the R=U theory. You've probably head of most of them. But the one that caught my eye had to do with Ultimecia's final words.
So you get to her final form and she reintroduces herself as "Ultimecia".
Suggesting that the form you were fighting before was just a vessel for Ultimecia, with some unknown name - or Rinoa. Within this time compressed world Rinoa has yet to die or pass on her powers. So either Ultimecia is Rinoa -or- she's all the sorceresses except Rinoa.
In English she says some enigmatic words like "Reflect on your childhood"
But this article proposes that it was parroting what Rinoa said on the Ragnarok about being a child and clinging to the thing that made you feel safe. In Rinoa's case her father - and then Squall.
Ultimecia says "No matter how hard you hold on, it escapes you."

I don't think the English script maintains this very well. But after Squall saved Rinoa on Disc 1, she orders him to stay by her side. Squall later recites that order and Rinoa recognizes what he said, adding "That was the beginning" or "That was how it started". But in English I think it's been rephrased and isn't recognizable as something that was said on Disc 1.
During time compression they end up in that same room where Squall saved Rinoa. "The Beginning".
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>I just read a long article written in Japanese with an interesting interpretation.
Funny, because I distinctly remember a Japanese-speaking anon making fun of you in another thread 12 - 18 months ago on this board for misunderstanding Griever and Sorceress lifespans when you were going extremely hard pushing R=U specifically. Did you master the Japanese language in a year or so? Impressive.
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>>2784604
Remember the anon who couldn't explain how 1 person could post in these ff8 threads consecutively for days and weeks at a time without rest.

The best part was when everyone ignored you. And you were seething like "I'm the meme lord! How can this happen to me?"
Except for me. I'll respond to you because I know how much it torments you. It's worth derailing any topic to prolong your suffering.
Imagine if you wised up and left "18 months ago". Haha. Look at the retard. Classic Asperger. Can't talk about something other than itself. Don't forget to screenshot this so you can rant and rave like a homeless person in the next thread.
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>>2784525
Is there are Xu character in Star Wars?
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>>2784649
>Remember the anon who couldn't explain how 1 person could post in these ff8 threads consecutively for days and weeks at a time without rest.
That sentence doesn't make any sense. It's quite easy to observe this anon (You) posting for days and weeks on end without rest. The explanation is mental instability.

>Don't forget to take a screenshot.
This is the second time you've said this, and I see now that you've mistaken me for a different boogeyman, as I don't take screenshots. I've prodded you a few times over the past year, but this thread is the first time we've actually engaged in almost a year. Don't worry, it'll just be you talking to yourself in the next thread and the one after that, like usual. You're too far gone to change or see how bonkers you are.
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>>2776280
There's more to support it in-game than R=U
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>>2782117
It's not that hard to decipher. It's just one big commentary on fatalism.
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>>2784077
Because she takes the idiot ball and runs with it from Timber all the way to the end of the game.
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>>2784071
Actually the book says the monolith builders a.k.a. the firstborns looked like hairless humans. But then they moved their minds into machines.
>They didn't build spaceships; they were spaceships
In 3001 humans were already starting to do that.

Personally, I don't think they had an appreciation for "mind". I think they were like psychic vampires and needed minds to sustain themselves.

The Coeurl monster is actually from a scifi novel the Black Destroyer. It was an apex predator that had drained all the intelligent life on it's world. Until some astronauts showed up, and it tried to hitch a ride with them to a new world. The creature would commit suicide once captured.
It would consume "id" - as in Ego and Id.

It's a monster that's appeared since FF2. But in FF8 it was named Torama in English. Tora ma meaning Tiger Demon in Japanese. But it might also resemble "Trauma".
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>>2784674
It's easy to spot your style of post in any thread. You act like people need to talk to you and should value your opinion. It's like a big target on your back that says "Kick Me!"
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>>2784736
Every single person who's entered an FF thread on this board these past few years can concretely identify your schizophrenic ramblings at this point, whereas all you can do in return is project these delusional traits of yours on people who call you out, or let's just say, people who slip a post in between you quoting yourself and pretending to have a conversation with someone. You've legitimately wasted years of your life putting absurd amounts of effort into this shit, and all you have to show for it is having become a named schizo on a dead board on a website for social rejects.
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>>2784761
Except they're not mine.
You'd think you'd be better at evaluating people since that's all you do here.
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>>2784761
This is a board for people with in interest in rpgs. Not an interest in people who play rpgs.

I'm sorry nobody is talking to you. But you're just not that interesting. And you're probably the only person on this board that want's your recognition to mean something.
Yeah, we notice you accusing anons of posting in R=U topics. What do you expect people to say to that? No really. Tell us. I'll repeat it back to you. Maybe that'll satisfy your need for human contact. We'll make a meme of it just for you. Would you like that? The fame you deserve.
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>>2784657
Not in anything prior to FFVIII anyways.
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>>2784769
>>2784777
I'm sorry, but the only valid response here is to refer you back to the very same post you're responding to, specifically as it pertains to projection. Imagine having literally wasted years talking to yourself on this board in this manner. You know who and what you are, just as every other person who's ever entered one of your threads do. Why waste time pretending otherwise? Continue talking to yourself as you always do and will continue to do. There's no putting the batshit insane genie back in the bottle. This is your life and will continue to be your life for as long as this board is around.

These are the only kinds of interactions you actually have with other anons. Tourists may accidentally respond to you out of confusion, but you talk to yourself and only to yourself until someone calls you a schizo and you instantly spend the next few posts going back and forth with these people who are so far beneath you and who refuse to participate in your "thought experiment." Human contact? This is your human contact. These are the moments you crave when you post nonsensical post after nonsensical post and finally get a (You) from someone other than yourself.
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>>2784777
>>2784942
I enjoy the banter between schizo-kun and grumpy anon but I think these are taking the insults a little too far. Please de-escalate and let’s have light-hearted fun again.
t. Lurker
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>>2784954
On the contrary, I think this is fairly justified because schizo-kun goes and derails non-FF8 threads that I personally enjoy. It's fine if he keeps his autism within his containment thread, but it's just annoying when he just spergs out and derails other threads for reasons that only his schizo brain will understand. The least he could do is get a trip.
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>>2784701
This fits in with my theory about FF8's connection with Chrono Cross.
The main character had 2 near death experiences. And understandably traumatized by a panther attack.

I can see Squall getting attack by a Torama. Maybe getting brain damaged in the process that explains his stunted emotional intelligence.

Perhaps having his "Id" removed to make room for G.F.s is a special part of the Balamb Garden program.
Similar to how the Jedi take in children to train and suppress their emotions.
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>>2784968
I think it's unfair to make "schizo-kun" responsible for "ass-burgers" lack of impulse control.

Maybe he's derailing their train of thought, but not the thread.
I say he should put his money where his mouth is. Up his ass.
Prove that people can distinguish the schizo posts from everyone else's which, oh btw, don't exist according to him because "schizo-kun" is just one person talking to himself. How many times has he said he's never coming or just going to ignore people now. But he keeps coming back.
And he NEVER has anything to say about FF8, he only wants to talk about (((you)))

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
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>>2784970
Maybe it's something the Templars do - that is the faction under the Garden Master that don't become SeeDs.

If you've ever read into the Knights Templars, you'll come across mentions of their secret pagan rituals. Worshiping a cat or Baphomet. False confessions drawn out by torture. Things like sodomy and n-n-navel kissing.
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>>2785113
The cat thing was very rare. More commonly reported they'd pull out a disembodied head. It was probably less ritural, and more of an inoculation process for what to expect from Muslims. Couldn't have the young knights falling faint at the slightest offence. Or be bewitched by exotic brown skin boys. It was expected of the brotherhood to lend each other a hand and keep each other's secrets.
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>>2784968
As a FF8 I just want to talk about the game and am so tired of this guy. He doesn't even back up his theories with evidence. Every time I try to engage with him like I would anyone else he replies with things that aren't even related to what I posted.

Sorry FF8 Pepe Silvia dude if you are reading this but you're too much.
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FF8 started development back in 1997, right off the heels of Final Fantasy Tactics.
I believe this is why the characters were all given birthdays and the story giving the back drop of Sorceress War 1 and 2.

Squall is Virgo
Rinoa and Zell are Pisces
Selphie is Cancer
Irvine is Sagittarius
Quistis is Libra
Laguna and Seifer are Capricorn

Early in development Laguna and Seifer were the same character named "Seifer". A war journalist. In the same sense of Orlan Durai and Arazlam Durai in Final Fantasy Tactics.

Orlan is mentioned (and shown) in the database as the origin of the Triple Triad game because he carried tarot cards as fortune teller aka astrologer. Orlan had one of the most OP moves in the game, Galaxy Stop. Perhaps because he is the author of the story being told. It seems similar to Time Compression.
Although Ellone, with her power, is the one exploring the past, rather than Laguna.

I have to draw a line between FFT and FF8's final boss, Ultima/Altima and Ultimecia.

Arazlam Durai also has a quote in Vagrant Story. Mentioning how the body is just a vessel for the soul. Which is how FF8 regards sorceresses, a vessel for power.
Thamasa Soul (sometime Samantha Soul) is a reoccuring item in the series that first appeared in FF6. The town of Thamasa, remnants of mages. The Thamasa Soul item usually grants some magic related effect like No MP or Dualcast - but also a restriction on Summoning.
The unofficial backstory (an unpublished doujin) for Kefka is that he grew up in a Thamasa Orphanage. He went insane after receiving a magitek infusion (which comes from espers). The implication is that Espers and Thamasa Mages were incompatible - separate creations of the Warring Triad. Dissidia elaborates that he lost the ability to empathize.
The Esper magicite magic system was essentially the precursor to FF8's junction system. Odine is perhaps channeling something of Kefka's persona.
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>>2784984
>Prove that people can distinguish the schizo posts
Hahaha, give it a rest. Schizo-kun has a well-established posting pattern that anyone can identify. How can you be so oblivious after 2 years of this shit flooding the board?
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>>2785550
There's a dummied out conversation between Squall and Rinoa about the Magic System and how G.F.s give them magic to fight the sorceress. It's mentioned that Galbadia soldiers use a Odine "Box" device. Because junctioning a G.F. directly can be dangerous.
This is referring to G.F. amnesia because they occupy part of the brain with memory. It's possible G.F.s could occupied and inhibit other regions, such as empathy.
Its unclear if Ultimecia literally drew Griever from Squall's mind. The phrasing is suggestive.

In Chrono Cross, the magic system uses "elements". Similar to FF7's materia. However the source of these elements is explained as the FATE super computer transforming the evolved reptites from an alternate timeline. Similar to how the Mother Brain supercomputer in Chrono Trigger was turning humans into capsules. Or how Kefka and the Gestalt Empire were turning Espers into Magicite.

In FF8, it's unclear when the junction system was developed. But it's implied that in Laguna's time, they were using magic stones rather than the draw system.
Squall will say "Better check our G.F.s" while Laguna will say "Better check our gear".

In Xenogears, the magic or "ether" system was powered by the Zohars. Although Ether users didn't appear until 500 years prior to story. During the Shevat-Solaris War. That is a war between surface-dwellers and people in the floating city of Solaris. Which is VERY similar to Chrono Trigger's era of Antiquity. With Queen Zeal and other magic users lording over people on the surface who can only use magic via stones.
Ultimecia's floating Castle with giant chains is strikingly similar to the mountain of woe, chained to the ground.

In Xenogears, an event called The Diabolos Collapse (sharing the same spelling as FF8's G.F.) basically wiped out all the non-ether capable humans. This was a manipulation of human evolution.
The Zohar being a monolith - you can see the connection with Space Odyssey.
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>>2785234
cant unsee
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>>2785613
We, of course, never see this Odine Device. Or the Junction Machine Ellone.

Although I've speculated that it has something to do with the sorceress memorial. That Esthar was essentially freezing Sorceresses in carbonite, and using them as draw points or "magic" servers.
The radio interference, which was implied to come from Adel, could actually be some kind of wireless network between the Odine Devices.
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>>2785629
Adel somehow knew Ellone existed. Or at the very least that there as a girl somewhere with special powers. Which leads me to believe there was some kind of missing legend or prophecy that was cut from the story.

What we do know is that she was looking for a successor. A dummied out entry in the database states that only people capable of embodiment can be successors.
Adel was committing mass genocide as well while she was looking for a successor.
There isn't an explanation for her cruelty. But, drawing from other square games, we could infer she was culling a certain genetic trait that could potentially terminate "the succession of witches". Sorceress Candidates at this point seemed to be rare.

In Chrono Trigger, and Xenogears, the female villains ultimately want to cultivate life to power some monstrous thing. In Trigger, it was Lavos. In Xenogears it was Deus.

In FF8, the mobile gardens where planned to combine into a giant robot at some point. The developers specifically allude to Go-Getter. However its hard to imagine because at the same time, the developers say they were still imagining the gardens at giant trees.
This is likely spinning off of FF7's Gold Saucer which was also shaped like a giant tree. A remnant from it's early development that also has no in-game explanation along with the fact that Junon's Mako canon was pointed directly at it.
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>>2775247
What part of "ff8 doesn't have a single good waifu" did you not understand? Rinoa is trash, quistis is embarassing trash, selphie might have an extra chromosome. Ashe is the best ff waifu
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>>2785662
You can detect dropped plot elements in the beginning of FF8. Galbadia is fighting Timber.

When you first meet Laguna, Kiros, and Ward, they are in a Timber Forest doing...something. Some stuff is burning. I kind of assumed they were fighting Timber but it's just the 3 of them and you never see Timber Forces. I think maybe they were just burning the forest down.

In the forest owl base you can read some old issues about Vinzer Deling and Galbadia and Timber relations. It mentions Galbadia's Missiles and what Timber would do if they ever launched them, but it cuts off there.

Oh, and then there were limit breakers.

In Xenogears "limiters" are nanomachines that everyone has to limit their development - Except for Elly who never had a limiter placed on her.
Limiters were created right after the Diabolos Collapse. 1 - to suppress the memory of what happened. 2 - to keep people's powers in check since the survivors all have Ether capabilities.
Xenogear's Disc 2 was famous for it's slide-show summary of events.
At some point they try to remove limiters from the population but launching special nanomachines into the atmosphere to spread around the globe.
>>
>>2785727
Oh wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. I should mention that Xenogears was originally planned to be FF7. Yeah. So the Gold Saucer concept was likely connected to the mobile base "sand cruiser" Yggdrasil. You know Yggrasil, the world tree from Norse mythology. The cruiser could submerge in sand, kind of like Castle Figaro in FF6. Their ship actually combine with a larger mobile unit.
Makes me wonder if the D-Prison facility had some configuration with Galbadia Garden. Because it's controlled by Seifer, and in Xenogears the only one that knew about the buried mobile unit was Zephyr. Given all the other meteological names in FF8, it's seems Seifer should have been spelled Zephyr.

Right. So the limiters in Xenogears also prevented people from using the more powerful mechs. With the limiters gone, the Yggdrasil could combine with a larger mobile-unit-part-city to fight another city-mech.

SO. Back to dropped FF8 plot threads. Galbadia launched missiles. Timber was suppose to do something but didn't. Cid tells Squall to go to the basement. As we know, the Garden moves. But all Squall did was bang on some controls. Knowing that the Gardens were originally imagined as trees, they were likely connected to Timber. So when Galbadia launched missiles I think Timber had some fail-safe to unlock the gardens.
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>>2785729
When you think about it. A missile strike on the gardens was pretty dumb. Considering Ultimecia needs Ellone alive, and Ellone was in Balamb Garden.

It's like, did Galbadia only become aware their garden was mobile after Balamb? Or, maybe the missile launch was intended to release some locking mechanism.

Anyways. In Xenogears, after spreading the nanomachines and releasing the limiters, some people started to mutate. The Gazel Ministry called it "germinating" because...humans are all components of Deus, a planetary super weapon, which the ministry considers it's servant and invade other worlds.
You know germinating. When a seed starts to sprout.
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>>2785753
In FF7 and Dirge of Cerberus, you could say Omega Weapon was Deus and Sephiroth was meant to be it's head or driver.
But FF8 departs from these concepts after the gardens battle and you reach disc 3.

Once people started mutating in Xenogears, they followed a kind of Reunion instincts and gathered to start forming "weapons". As in WEAPON in FF7 all-caps. The mutants are all eating each other in within this system meant to perfect a bioweapon thing. Elly tries to give it her blood but it doesn't really do anything. But she help over ride their instincts. Because she saint sophia. Like Sophia in the Warring Triad.
Have I mentioned the Warring Triad and Triune Brain concept recently? I don't feel like explaining it again.

In FF8 the closest thing to a "Reunion" might be the lunar cry. Adel tries to absorb Rinoa. Adel being this unexplained entity driven by primal impulses. But the story is pretty much over that point as time compresses.

There is a dummied out entry for time compression in the database. The point was for Ultimecia to absorb the powers of sorceresses across time. The entry mentions there being multiple "presents". From developer interviews it seems Laguna was NOT Squall's father, he was from another world or timeline.

After all, if Ellone wanted to change history and keep Laguna and Raine together, why go the Galbadia Hotel with Laguna and Julia? IMO she would be aborting Squall from the timeline.
Unless there were parallel timelines, like Chrono Cross, and Squall is somehow THE Chrono Trigger.
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>>2785550
I don't believe anything you saw about early development because your posts are all insanely huge stretches and you never post sources for the early development stuff.
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>>2785593
Not that anon but your post is literally sandwiched between 2 schizo anon posts.If anyone cant see it they are either retarded or schizo-kun samefagging
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>>2785802
What's even your fucking point schizo-kun?
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>>2785985
And what are you going to do with sources?
Half of what they're talking is in the fucking manual. The other half comes from developer interviews. Which they've linked to before.

What's the matter? Don't have a screenshot of that thread? The one where ass-burger had nothing to say but "take your pill" "take your pills" for 2 months straight?
And then he wanted a time stamp because he couldn't sit through a 2 hour interview. OH yeah! And THEN he admitting he couldn't speak Japanese.
You've got nothing to fucking say. You know it. We know it.
If you want to see a samefag look in the mirror.
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>>2785987
It's the same point he's always made. The games are all made by the same people. The holes in one story can be filled in by looking at another.

He's not just filling in the cracks he's turning stones over you've never looked at. Showing you it's all cast from the same mold. And the abandoned blueprints.

Sure, to do what he's doing requires to have played every Square Enix game ever. But here he is summarizing the key points of those games so people like you can follow along.
He doesn't have explain what Yggdrasil is.
He doesn't need to explaining the obvious naming conventions. He doesn't have to extrapolate the missing data for you.
You don't have to be here at all.
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For example, I can see correspondences between FF8 and Chrono Cross.

And it's made clearer knowing that the game was suppose to start with Laguna. Laguna was named Seifer originally. He was part of a team named "Squall". So when the game jumps over to a character named Squall - the player will wonder what the connection is.
Giving the numerous Star Wars references. This "Squall" Team was just reimagined Storm Troopers.
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>>2786147
Look at this, December 1997.
FF8 came out in February 1999.

Most games take 3-5 years to complete. But they rolled it out in a little more than 12 months.
They HAD to be recycling more than just a few assets and concepts from other projects.

Xenogears was the proposed FF7, and had 2 years of development.
FF7 started way back in 1994, planned for the SNES before Square switched to Playstation CD-ROMS. But even with that switch it was 3 years.

IX got 2 years of development
X got 3.

At the time FF12 had the record for longest game development time of 5 years. But then FF13 took 5 years too. Planned for the ps2, switched to the ps3. The art director said they could make another game with all the content they cut.

FF8 deserves a remake. Or a spin off. A novella. A manga. Something! The neglect is criminal.
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We shall now speak only in FF8 Doujin Titles
Press X to "Continue"
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>>2786147
I was going to read them.

I don't have a FF8 manual and didn't know it was in that because you never told me and I didn't know what interviews or where to read them because I don't read every single one of your posts and didn't know you linked them. I can't read Japanese.

I have no idea what you even are talking about after this. I haven't seen your posts before this once for way longer than 2 months. Maybe a year but you are just that annoying. If I did I left the threads because you ruined them and I forgot.

I'm also not that anon.

You post all the time but I can't even tell what your theories are.
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>>2786368
>He ruined his own thread because you're not around
You guys are pathetic. Read a wiki. Check out the cutting room floor.
>I can't understand
And nobody needs you to. This isn't reddit. Nobody is posting here for upvotes or karma or likes.
And how do you think the rest of us feel when we have to wade through your self-important shitposts. That's right. You don't think. Get off the stage. This ain't the youtube comment section. Lurk more.
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>>2786156
Except a lot of it requires giant leaps of logic that make little sense.
>>
FFVIII (released 1999) is a reimagining of Harry Potter (first book released in 1997) except in a mercenary school
>dark haired orphan protagonist with scar on face
>both the 'Chosen one'
>snarky blond rival
>villain who possesses / uses the body of others (see: Prof Quirrell)
>doting headmaster who favours the protagonist
>first expedition into the unknown is via train
>>
>>2776238
That game looks the closest to FF7's graphical style that I've seen. Very nostalgic.
>>
>>2786545
Like the anons that "appreciate" Selphie but they don't explain why or post their sources.
Not only do they expect us to believe them, they want us to care.
>>
>>2786558
The Tomb of the Unknown King is actually called
The Tomb of the Unnamed King in Japanese.

In theory you could draw 100 avada kedavra spells from He-who-must-not-be-named.
But since enemies level up with your party, by the time you fight him the spell will be replaced with avada kedavraga, and junctioning that is an instant game over.
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>>2786604
-ra spells don't retain the suffix when they become -ga, anon.
It's obviously avada kedavga
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>>2786616
ラ and ガ is not the King's English.
-10pts from Hufflepuff for talking to the instructor during your field exam.
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>>2786599
I love Selphie because she loves trains.
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>>2786386
Even this post doesn't make sense and comes across as a non sequiter.

You ruined previousthreads because of your offtopic posts not because I wasn't active in them. I never said anything more. Now you're resorting to insults because you're personally offended by me questioning and criticizing you. Why would I read a wiki or TCRF when I don't even know what your hypothesis is and by your own admission you don't have one you are just 'turning over the stones'. What does me not understanding Japanese have to do with Reddit upvotes and social media clout? I wouldn't need to understand Japanese if you could just explain yourself. Wait did you just cut off my post halfway through and change the context to say i didn't understand in general? And I'm still not the anon you think I am I have never . The burden of proif is on you and I don't even know what you're trying to prove. If it's just an analysis then it's a real bad one.
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>>2786679
never insulted you*
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>>2786679
Schizo's completely insane. Don't bother.
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>>2786702
Oh god he really is just talking to himself on posts like this right?

>>2775345
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Ah hem. I said from now on we only speak in Doujin titles.
Maybe you need a "Private Lesson"
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>>2786702
Don't let their "Fake Mania" act get to you.
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>>2786679
Literature is not mathematics. It's not about "2 + 1"
You just suppose the rules are true, then reapply them.
It's like your erectile dysfunction; it's not that hard.
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>>2785753
Seeds only come from "flower"ing plants. It's hard to imagine, but these types of plants actually evolved after mammals.

Before flowers, everything was ferns and spores.
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>>2787005
There is evidence that the Centra Civilization came to the planet on a seed ship. It goes along with Xenogears and FF7's setting. In Xenogears, a colony ship crashed on the planet, then it was repurposed to make the Tower of "Babel" as well as other city/forts like Yggdrasil and Fort Hurricane (in the same vein as the cyclone fortress in ff2 or the Bahamut in FF12)
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>>2787011
In FF7, Gold Saucer resembled a tree.
While in Xenogears, inside the remnants of the colony ship was a supercomputer named Razael's Tree.

Xenosaga was not made by Square and was only a spiritual successor to Xenogears. A "love letter" if you like. It still carried the same motifs. Like the organization called Ormus, their emblem includes a tree as well.
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>>2787015
>>2787011
>>2787005
>>2787003
>>2786995
>>2786992
HELP THE SCHIZO JUNCTIONED WITH HENTAI
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>>2787015
In FF9, you "Encounter" the Evil Forest at the start of the game. When defeated, the monsters release spores (not seeds). Without treatment it's implied that Garnet, Steiner, and Vivi would have died or mutated.

This might suggest that the Evil Forest was native to Gaia, while the Iifa Tree, we know, came from Terra. Although the evil forest mass petrification isn't explained the idea might have been that dinosaur (or dragon) fossils, like the ones in Fossil Roo, were not ancient at all. Just dormant Terra life to waiting to be revived.

In FF12, the dragons have a symbiotic relationship with the forest. They don't die, so much as their corpse becomes the forest. I can't say what comes after that. Like, if Dragon Eggs are really seeds?
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>>2787031
not all doujin is made to satisfy your "anal fantasy"
>>
Why the fuck does e-hentai have 2 "Official Strategy Guides" anyways?
They're not hentai. They were licensed by Square, not made by Square. And they're not even accurate!
The only people who are going to buy the guides are people with the game. But the guides were written like they're marketing to people who have never played it. Like people just stand around in bookstores and thumb through strategy guides to games they don't own or never played?

Like, it takes about "War, and Galbadia invading other countries" but that's not really an accurate summary of events. I mean, yeah, when they hit Trabia with a missile strike, you can imagine it as an act of war. Trabia likely would have retaliated. But Trabia as a country, as a concept, barely exists.
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>>2787104
This comes up in just about every FF8 thread. But Trabia was suppose to have a Capital/Castle. As well as an unknown town that was invaded by Esthar around the crater region.

The popular opinion is that Ultimecia's Castle IS Trabia castle. But rather than trying to explain it in the narrative, I personally just think the final dungeon was hobbled together from scraps. Part of it may be Trabia Castle. Part of it may be the insides of Winhill Manor.
I believe the art gallery was part of Caraway Mansion, or perhaps the OTHER Mansion next to it, only seen on the world map.

Ultimecia might not have been the final boss at all, but maybe Hyne. And perhaps, like Hyne in FF3, he transformed the Living Woods into his castle. You'll notice some areas in her castle have morphed architecture as if it's been transformed.
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>>2787165
Bros I want a FFVIII 2 /Compilation of VIII so bad
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>>2787361
According to the gaming intelligence agency, Square prepared a digital presskit just before the Tokyo Game Show in Spring '99, for Final Fantasy Gaiden. Which appeared to follow Seifer and his gang after the events of FF8.
It never showed up. Perhaps it was a hoax.

What Square DID show at the '99 TGS was a PS2 tech demo, recreating Squall and Rinoa's dancing scene.
This ballroom doesn't exist outside the FMV in the game. They even show that mysterious statue in the back, but you never see a full view of it.

They also started showcasing The Bouncer. So I wonder if the story was in anyway adapted from FFGaiden.
>>
I’m disappointed that I false flagged as Schizo Anon at one time ITT and nobody noticed the difference. Can anyone tell which posts are genuinely by Schizo Anon and which ones are fake?
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>>2788202
I just noticed that at least one other person also flagged as Schizo Anon — and not in a subtle way — further muddling the waters. Damn, mine was far subtler.
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>>2788157
I replayed a little bit of the Bouncer this morning. I can kind of see that how it might have been set at Dollet at first, then they hop a train. Then maybe go to F.H. or one of the Gardens.

But the Bouncer's story is pretty fragmented too because it's more of a fighting game than an RPG.

Of course the big secret is the Girl that gets kidnapped is actually a cyborg or something. So I was thinking Ellone IS the J.M.E.
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>>2788433
>Julia got turned into a panther bionoid
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>>2788437
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>>2788433
I dunno. It says 2-discs. So this might have revealed the Laguna story that was cut.

I kinda wonder what happened to Galbadia afterwards. I mean Deling is dead. So would it still be called Deling City or the proper Galbadia? Is Seifer still in charge?
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>>2788470
Did Timber get their independence?!
>>
SneeD
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>>2788433
What's the story of The Bouncer like?
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>>2788619
It's short because it plays like a fighting game. You pick story mode and you progress through different stages starting at a Bar, then moving to a train station, then some kind of H.Q. then into space. The scenes change slightly depending on who you pick.

Basically a girl get's kidnapped by some group, so "The Bouncers" go rescue her. I guess you can think of the bad guys as Shinra. It's hard to get a feel for the kind technology this setting has. They've got Trains, Robots, Space Satellites. They mention guns but nobody uses them. Everyone has some kind of connection to everyone.
Basically the kidnapped girl is the sister to be this Rufus Shinra type character - he is named Dauragon. Only his real sister died from some unnamed illness. The girl is actually a robot, and is some unnamed component to this satellite with a laser. Which Dauragon uses to blow up a hospital that refused to treat his sister. The details are really fuzzy. The girl ran away which is why they're after her. The ending implies she doesn't know she's a robot (it doesn't make sense.)

It's a dumb story because you can't stop Dauragon from blowing up the hospital. You can't stop his launch into space (even though you can detached the train carrying the rocket fuel or let it blow up).
Along with fuzzy medical-science, there's a "Bionoid" character that can shapeshift into a panther. One of the Bouncers knows her but they don't really explain their relationship, he thought she was dead.
Then there's this psycho in leather leading all the other henchmen in leather. They don't explain what his problem is either, some kind of "enhancement".
That seems to be what this group does. Some kind of mad-science experimental surgery.
During loading screens you can read dialogue from the characters' past, but sometimes it's too fast to read.
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>>2788202
I can't tell anymore you're all turning me schizo.
>>
Schizo anon has created this cult of personality where everyone now wants to associate some made up monkey shit to Square's constant concept re-use from game to game. It's made having a FF8 thread impossible or even 'sensible' speculation on the games a fucking chore. I wish I could inflict physical harm on schizo-anon and everyone who emulates him. Isn't the easier theorycrafting found in FFX and 7's connection anyways? Give those threads a try for a few months you fucking mook.
>>
>>2788674
Once you start putting the pieces together of how the characters are connected, you'll notice holes and inconsistencies. The wiki fills in some, but I'm not sure where they got their information from.

Like how long they've been working at the bar. In one place it says Kou is the newest bouncer, and secretly he's on assignment to watch the girl. So he should know she's a robot? But in another scene, it's suggested that Sion is the newest bouncer. And they've all known each other for at least a year. Kou is part of some group called "Lukis". It get's named dropped once and never expanded on. Idk, maybe there's something in the manual, but my used copy didn't come with a manual. The wiki says they're investigators.

At the beginning of the game, there's a news story about the Satellite. It's converts sunlight into microwaves beamed down to earth and converted to electricity. There's one in space already, on the news they announce the launch of a 2nd satellite. (But there's only one).
In one cutscene they mention the control center has blown up (idk if they're talking about the train crash or not). This not-shinra building is confusing. It's like a train station + shopping mall + NASA + aircraft hanger

So they end up on this shuttle called the Galeos. It's flying towards the satellite. But on the way there the bad guys used it to blow up the hospital. You defeat the bad guys. But they can't control the shuttle and it's on a collision course with the satellite. What was the point for flying towards the satellite if they didn't need to be on it to use it?

The ending scene mentions, without the satellite, Robogirl is back to her old self. But she didn't ...change? There was cutscene were she went turbo, fought off a bunch of androids by herself, and then passed out for the rest of the game.
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>>2786644
Pretty sure Avada Kedavra ain't the King's English to begin with.
In fact, all of these "spells" seem to be in some sort of demon tongue. As HRRM King Charles III appointed representative on 4chan, I'll see to it that you're all hanged.
>>
>>2788157
>the ballroom
Where would it be physically located in respect to the rest of Balamb Garden?
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>>2788674
I remember there was a boss fight against a girl called Echidna on top of a train?
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>>2788743
If anything The Bouncer was probably an adapted sequel to FF7. With Dauragon and his panther assistant resembling Rufus Shinra and his dog thing.

In The Bouncer, the town they start at is called "Edge" which happens to also be the name of the town replacing Midgard in FF7 after it's destroyed by meteor fall.

The main difference between Dauragon and Rufus is that Dauragon was adopted and inherited his corporation or whatever it's suppose to be.

After playing the story mode for a 3rd time, Dauragon has an extra phase, where he rips off his shirt and a dragon tattoo magically appears on his back - but this is never explained.
His personality shifts, sort of. He doesn't care about his plans anymore, all he wants to do is fight. This might be similar to the enhancement and mental instability the leather henchman had - although we never see a tattoo on him.
This might also have something to do with how he was raised. I mean, there's that asian-parent stereotype where they demand excellence in everything. But perhaps it was a discipline requirement to acquiring this tattoo?

If it were adapted from FF8, perhaps this was some kind of G.F. ?
Although FF7 also had Tifa's teacher, Zangan, who never got developed. Perhaps Rufus was also one of Zangan's pupils.
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>>2788749
It's around the Quad. You can tell where they are in the final balcony scene as the camera moves away and shows the whole garden.
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>>2788769
Seifer's "no mercy" limit break doesn't use a fire magic but "Chi"

So there's some unspoken martial arts thing going on.
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>>2788784
Amarant in FF9 is a monk/ninja class. He also has shares the "No Mercy" ability with Seifer.
But in Japanese instead of No Mercy it's named 雑魚散らし
which translates to Scattering Small Fish. Or something like Small Fry Disposal. Which might have something to do with him fishing in the ending credits.

In Amarant's case, the No Mercy skill takes on the Element of his equipped weapon.

Seifer's weapon is called Hyperion; that's a Titan associated with the sun or sunrise. So perhaps the Fire Element came from his Gunblade? You can't upgrade Seifer's weapon. But supposing you could it might have also changed the No Mercy element.
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Pretty obvious that the Bouncer has the same concept artists as FF8, not just the character art but the environment and objects too.

The dog is unnamed but in concept art it's written "Angelo" Were they just recycling FF8's concept art?

They apparently had enough to sell an artbook, also a strategy guide for some reason. That might be where the wiki is getting it's information from.

I found some storyboards too. Apparently the G in G-Forces stands for Gidoh or Gidou, when means devil, brute, or a type of fish you didn't want to catch.
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>>2788769
Rufus is the one thing i'm looking forward to in part two since i wanna know why he could see the time jannies. My money's on him been infused with actual cetra cells unlike sephiroth who got the Thing's cells
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>>2788855
And, ok, the Not-Shinra building I was talking about. It's actually suppose to be an "Aqua City"
*cough* F.H. *cough*
An artificial island made of 3 towers.
It's connected to the city of Edge by train. And it get's it's power from this solar satellite. Why? I don't know.

The whole game takes place at night. But maybe it's a fantasy planet, and this city is in perpetual night or always cloudy. So solar power via satellite somehow makes more sense.

If this is recycled from FF8, if could be related to that Triangle symbol with Bahamut and the Deep Sea Research Facility. Maybe before Galbadia took over Dollet and Timber, it existed as just the Battleship Island.

I'm still looking for an answer. But at the start of the Bouncer it's snowing and Volt comments that it's strange weather for spring. But the story didn't go anywhere with that.
I'm thinking there was a script change. Maybe the satellite started out as a weather control device.
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>>2788902
There is a hanging garden there between the towers, and in the middle is a dome. In the game this is where the party split happen. Because you fight Dauragon and his panther-lady, and then he pulls the old trap door trick on them.

Not only do they all end up in different places, they end up in different towers - allegedly.

There's one with the shopping center, one with the rocket launch facility. And the third is a mystery to the public, but it's their robot factory and stuff.
The 3 towers are supposed to be named after the 3 Imperial Treasures. The sword, mirror, and jewel.
>>
>>2770792
And you were beneath all of their notices
>>
>>2770792
>She's such a basic bitch
He doesn’t know
>>
>>2788855
Can you post a link to the Bouncer artbook? I love those crazy designs
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>>2788902
>it's strange weather for spring
I figured it out last night. It's a Japanese idiom for when Spring arrives. 3 days cold, 4 days warm. "Sankan Sion". That's is, it's Spring when you have 3 cold days followed by 4 warm days.
Of course Sion is also the name of one of the Bouncers.
In that scene, Domonique asks if Sion is here. Volt says "yes...", then looks up at the sky and says "...but spring isn't"

Sion is suppose to be depressed, suicidal, and heartless. Because his master disappeared, and then his (implied) girlfriend, Kaldea, died. He got her dog tags as a present once. They don't say how she died, just that she was in an accident working as an intern for the Mikado group. It's hard to say if she actually died or not. Obviously they turned her into a bionoid, but she retains some memories of Sion. The documents says this aged her cells by 10 years, but they also mention cloning. And this experiment with Kaldea was somehow put into Domonique to make her more human. Reading between the lines, I think Domonique's feelings for Sion came from Kaldea in the first place. Domonique gives Sion dog tags as a present too.

Nomura says he was working on a lot of other projects simultaneously, and a lot of his designs were not approved by dreamfactory for the bouncer. Sora in Kingdom Hearts is based off of Sion. Hayner, Pence, and Olette are probably also designed off of unapproved Bouncer Concepts. And while Diz, in KH2, doesn't explain why he was researching "the mysteries of the heart" you can probably bet it had something to do with AI, and the "blanks"

It's funny to imagine Rinoa as a robot or clone.
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>>2789317
sion is literally the kh main character huh
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>>2789317
There's speculation that the playable characters of the bouncer were suppose to be based on the Chinese Zodiac. But ultimately they're 1 short of 12. And Kaldea's panther morph kind of ruins it.
Although I haven't seen the panther form in any concept art, so it might have been a last minute addition.

Sion is the Dog
Kou is the Tiger
Volt is the Goat
Dauragon is the Dragon
Echidna is the Snake.

Mugetsu is probably the rabbit.

Meaning Wong, Dominique, Leann, PD4, and Kaldea would have to be Pig, Rooster, Rat, Ox, Horse, or Monkey.

The missing 12th character was probably Master Mikato which we never see outside of a blurry flashback (but he basically looks like Dauragon). Volt was framed for his "assassination" but nobody came after him, which I think says Mikato was secretly alive.
It's possible Kaldea was meant to be the tiger (I can't imagine her morphing into anything else) so Kou might have been something else initially.

PD-4 has no story. But I think he might have been a clone of the original Dauragon, and Mikato was just grooming him to be his new body. All it says is that the PD series had an unexpected side effect which prompted them to experiment on Kaldea.

Towards the end, there is an optional scene were Kaldea reunites with Sion. But then Dauragon...stabs her in the back..with...his chain...somehow? It would make more sense if this was PD-4 who has an extendable arm with pointy fingers. It's a strange scene because Dauragon just shows up randomly, kills her saying "I don't need her sympathy".
Then he's back in the control room blowing up a hospital because they weren't sympathetic enough...*scratches head*
If Kaldea doesn't die here, she'll die (presumably) while they're escaping the shuttle crash. She'll pushed Sion and Dominique through a door before it closes.
It's stupid because all thought the game we see her panther morph phasing through doors! But she doesn't here.
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>>2789406
I've sometimes pondered if Edea (who also phases through matter) was meant to be Julia.
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A lot of the bars in FF8 are named.
Dollet has the "Shining Bomber". If you explore the card player's room, you learn that he played against Laguna in the past at some point. You'll also find an expired discount coupon for a drink at the Amphora Pub. Which is in Timber. Which might have came from Laguna as well. The expiration date is oddly specific.

The Amphora Pub also has card players. There's also a screen of a woman's face morphing into a tiger.
If there was ever a "Dog Street" somewhere in FF8, it would have to be Timber. Since that's where the pet store is, and where you meet Rinoa and Angelo. Also Timber uses the same fontface as the Bouncer.

In Deling City, the bar in the hotel isn't explicitly named. But at the Train Station there are posters for the Coffee Moon Bar, in concept art it just says "Coffee Shop". I've mentioned before, its strange Laguna jumps from the Timber Forests to Deling City. And even though this is the first time Squall and the other were connected to Laguna, there's a line that suggests they've been connected before. I've also pointed out that Deling City in the past has different banners, not Galbadia's emblem. Plus Deling City has more trees then Timber. So perhaps Deling City and Timber were switched around at somepoint in development.
Like, rather than a hotel bar, Julia may have been performing at the TV Station, or maybe it was an Opera House in the past.
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According to the Ultimania Guide. Deling City is perpetually cloudy and only gets a few days of sunshine a year. It's interesting that it's not ever raining there. According to the Prototype World Map, it says the Trabia region was suppose to be cloudy.

We only see it raining at the orphanage in Squall's memories. And Laguna falls in love with a woman named Raine.

In FF6, there's the town of Zozo where it raining. Ramuh is at the top of a highrise caring for Terra. I think KH2's "World that never was" is also imagined in the same vein as this. Zozo's theme music (slam shuffle) seems to use the Pink Panther tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptef8e_ZGic

In other games, Ramuh is accompanied with forests and trees. In FF11, for example his Crystal is inside the Boyahda Tree. Although FF8 replaced Ramuh with Quezacotl. Which is more or a rainforest feathered serpent thing.
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>>2789510
>Quezacotl
There's been theories about where you might have obtained Quezacotl if it wasn't just given to you from the start of the game.

It's crazy that all the G.F.s you fight have spoken lines.
Ifrit, Diabolos, The Brothers, Cerberus, Odin, Gilgamesh.
And they're used to fight sorceresses, but they they don't have bigger plot relevance.

In the French version, Quezacotl is named Golgotha. Which was the place of Jesus' execution. It's also similar to Final Fantasy Tactics Golgollada Gallows, which was to alleged execution site of St Ajora.
But it's still such a jump. What was the French reasoning for this?
Adding to this, "Thunderstorm" is changed to "feu purificateur" like to be burned at the stake I guess?

Apparently it's a redesign of the "Perfect Being" in Parasite Eve. Idk have to look for French Translations to see what they named it, but I'm willing to bet it's connected to that.

Parasite Eve btw also begins in an Opera House. The actress on stage is playing a character named Eva who the king forbids to marry the prince because everyone around her dies. He orders her to be burned at the stake. At that point, the actress notices the MC in audience and everyone starts to spontaneously combust. Something to do with mitochondria. The "perfect being" would be some kind of mitochondria enty with the ability to rapidly evolve by rewriting it's own DNA.

Xenogears naturally has a lot of biblical references, including a crucifixion site called Golgotha, although it's spelled Golgoda.

ANYWAYS, Perhaps Quezacotl was meant to be Laguna's G.F. which he used or acquired while burning the Timber Forest.
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>>2789600
Perhaps "electrocution" is in bad taste or too harsh for French people. So they softened it to a different kind of capital punishment.

When in the Timber Forests, Kiros asks why they're fighting animals and not Timber Forces. IMO, I think they just committed moogle genocide.
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Why does this retarded faggot keep posting?
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>>2789205
R=U makes FFVIII objectively worse, I don't know why people push for it.
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>>2770094
>Bestgirl Quistis
I genuinely don't understand how anyone can shit on anything Rinoa does while being a Quistis fan, when Quistis (who is trained and hired for her job) ditches her role to go give an apology. it's by far the stupidest thing anyone does in the whole game.
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>>2789678
I've genuinely never understood it either and when you question people they just give some vague nonsense about how it "makes the story more interesting".
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>>2789709
>understand this for me
Have you tried chewing your own food?
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>>2789758
So you can't answer him. There is no food to chew.
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>>2771456
>the themes as presented are good enough

the translation was too dogshit to get any of the character development across
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>>2789813
>its not an answer if i can't understand it
That's called a learning disability.
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I was studying the Japanese Transcript last night.
I thought Esthar Soliders were only called "Terminators" in the artbook, but that's what they're called in Japanese.

Laguna's summary of events after rescuing Ellone is just as brief.
Raine Died.
Ellone went to the Orphanage.

Only, in Japanese, Laguna mentions Cid and Edea put her on a boat - which was the real orphanage. Which is why he never found her. And that's how she lived for the past 10 years.

It actually makes sense that the White SeeD ship is the orphanage. Because who's going to sail to Bone Fuck Nowhere to adopt a kid? Of course they'd moved around. It's like the United State's Orphan Train.

In the Japanese script they don't call Edea's House the orphanage. It's just a "Stone House" they all remember. Which was part of Centra.
That's the confusing part. There is a ancient and modern Centra. But there's still continuity errors. I think.

The differences between Edea's House Past and Present seems to have been caused by the Lunatic Pandora. Laguna says the #1 reason they dropped the Lunatic Pandora into the ocean was so that "what happened the Centra wouldn't happen again". The big Centra Crater where Esthar excavated the Crystal Pillar was ancient history. And as far as we know, it was a natural phenomenon. So dropping the pillar in the ocean doesn't sound like it's preventing anything.
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>>2790205
Although, in the ending scene, the Orphanage is still in good condition. And that was years later.

We know that the Gardens originated from Centra. This too was ancient history. After Centra was destroyed by a lunar cry the survivors took mobile shelters and created Dollet and Esthar. I believe that's Galbadia and Trabia Gardens.

This was known as the "Shelter Era"

NPCs in F.H. recall renovating Balamb Garden. Which seems to suggest that Balamb Garden (or part of it) was still on Centra up until 10 years ago. The problem is that, in English, Cid acts like he had no idea the Garden could move. He knew. It was a Shelter from the "Shelter Era" it's part of their history. He gave Squall a key to the MD level to do...~something. Cid must have known, but was written in a way to surprise the player.
We could reason that Cid was just uncertain if the Garden in it's current state could still move.
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>>2790242
cid was a punk bitch but also
>10 years ago
would mean that most of the main cast would also know (except amnesia)
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>Let's drop a 3 mile high monolith into the ocean, what's the worst that can happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCJ2ycPFOLo
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>>2790266
the best possible president
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>>2790256
Yes. When you get to talk to Laguna in Esthar and ask about Raine.
In English, Laguna says it's too much to remember.
like "too hard to remember", as in painful?

But in Japanese, it's more like it's hard to remember because the memories are fading or there weren't that many memories in the first place. Suggesting that Laguna might also have G.F. amnesia.

I mean, he is married. He's got a ring on his finger. He couldn't have completely forgotten.

But that's another crack in the continuity. Because it's hinted that Rain and Laguna founded SeeD. And their salute is showing each other their rings. The White SeeDs mention that Edea told them the salute hasn't changed since it was created. Which is a weird thing to say when SeeD has barely been around for 10 years.

So it's barely been a Generation. But Zell talks about joining SeeD to be like his Grandpa. Which suggests SeeD outdates the Gardens. Or just that the scenario changed at some point during development.

On top of the fact that Cid mentions how the Gardens "changed" into this mercenary organization. I think Cid was only responsible for Balamb Garden.
Galbadia Garden was always a military academy. Galbadia's headmaster was a subordinant of Norg. So when Cid was creating a new garden, Norg tried to make it like Galbadia.
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>>2790266
I giggled.
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"Oh, and Squall, I forgot to give you this. It's a cursed item..."
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Rinoa isn't Ultimecia she and Squall founded Eden Garden and sent it back in time to help their past selves and we need a sequel about Sorceress Rinoa and Captain Leonhart going on Captain Harlock Star Trek Gundam assed space adventures.

And Angelo had lots of puppies.
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>>2790307
You probably knew this but Kitase did say there were a lot of cuts recently when the HD version came out. Especially for Laguna's story. He was basically going to be a second protagonist I think?
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>>2790395
he still is kind of a second protagonist



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