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>use brain to build the strongest builds known to man
These are real RPGs.
The only true games around here.
All others are fake games.
>>
what is the strongest build btw?
>>
>build the strongest builds known to man
>still fall apart because a walking JO crystal hummed infrasound at you and made you shit your pants

Seriously FUCK these wine aunt new age bookstore fucking shits
>>
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actually, I turn my brain off and use flowcharts based on InEffect builds
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>>2724934
Might as well just watch a walkthrough on youtube.
>>
>>2724929
oracle
>>
>>2724929
Uninstall Wizard
>>
What's the best party for playing off of each other in terms of reactivity (not just camp convos)? I've gotten some stuff out of Lann and Seelah, as well as Daeran and Lann and Arue and Regill.

Note that this isn't about mechanical strength, since the strongest party objectively is Hedwirg Reborn + 5 merc casters
>>
>>2725248
Daeran, Lann and Woljif, also Arue and Woljif
>>
>>2724920
Stop lying to yourself, you triple chin nigger.
>>
>>2725248
>Hedwirg Reborn
???
>>
build autism is so boring and I can never care about any of my party members beyond making sure my protagonist guy is good. i cant be bothered to go level up everyone else properly thats so boring. in TTRPGs you dont have to go level up for everyone else too.
>>
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Lads

Angel Crusader cleric or purifier oracle

pls choose for me
>>
>>2724920
Buildfaggotry is the opposite of a real RPG. In a real RPG you can't hide behind a build for an easy success, you must play the cards you are delt (or rolled, as it were.)
Buildfag games are the fake RPGs.
>>
>>2725521
>In a real RPG you can't hide behind a build for an easy success, you must play the cards you are delt

Name one.
>>
>>2725525
Why did you cut his post off in the middle
>>
>>2725528
Name one
>>
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>>2724920
>a-a-ackshually me being autistic about big red numbers on screen is the r-r-real shit
Its been 2 decades and Tourneyfags are still this autistic.
>>
>>2725531
That's not me
>>
>>2725549
Worthless
>>
>>2724920
Minmaxing is the least interesting thing in existance. It's for autistic people with 0 imagination.
>>
>>2724920
Meh, min/maxing is boring and it seems the only people who love it are turbo autists who don't care about any other aspect on an RPG.
>>
I tried CRPGs recently. I like JRPGs better.
>>
I like coming up with character ideas and figuring out a build that fits them while being competent. Or finding a class/ability/feat that looks fun and making a build around it.
>>
>>2724920
So nobody will play tabletop with you and you cope by pretending that poorly balanced and buggy video games are "the real shit"? I'd pity you but probably you deserve it.
>>
>>2725969
CRPGs are better than tabletop because there is no faggy GM telling me I can't break the game lol
>>
>>2725664
thanks for sharing your opinion anon!
>>
>>2725513
Oracle is much stronger and has way more options for you to do any type of build you want and be good at it. A cleric will be shit at everything he tries to do except healing
>>
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>>2726127
good luck to hit something on non-kindergarten difficulties without domain angelshitter
a reminder that they do not even know the basics
>>
>>2726129
>Not having a cleric mercenary be your bitch while you lead your heavenly host to victory

Congratulations on being a faggot
>>
>>2726150
What? Sosiel not enough of a bitch for you?
>>
>>2726129
I haven't played Angel but it doesn't look like Bolt of Justice has an attack roll. There's also other good divine spells without attack rolls, if you really want to avoid touch AC.

And in response to your picture, Demon can pump DCs very high and cast all spells as move actions, Gold Dragon increases spell damage dice, and Legend could also abuse Mythic Expanded Arsenal to pump DCs.
>>
>>2724920
The virgin
>>use brain to build the strongest builds known to man
vs the chad
>>overcome every challenge the game throws at you using an heterogeneous party composed of run of the mill builds (preferably no dips allowed)
>>
>>2726255
>>complete the last azlanti mode using only a fighter and sosiel brother
elder god tier
>>
>>2726255
Support classes backing up a single class paladin is incredibly strong.
>>
>>2726183
Don't use sosiel. He doesn't have guarded hearth and Daeran is a better healer, although I usually play an Inquisitor so I pick community domain myself. And even as an angel oracle you get so much holy damage that cannot be resisted through your mythic path that high ac is a non-issue
>>
>>2726292
>guarded hearth
Cheese is not an argument. Rather the opposite. It makes it easy to discard your opinion outright.
>>
>>2724929
deadly earth kineticist
>>
>>2725513
half-elf angel oracle

i am amazed at how half-elf went from the shittest race by far to the godliest race by far between kingmaker and wrath
>>
>>2726326
What an additional +2 charisma does to the min-maxer's brain.
>>
>>2726330
it does EVERYTHING
>>
What are the use cases of Eldritch Knight? It seems like a really elaborate way to make a Magussy that's stronger lategame but weaker earlygame and still can't hit fuckall.
>>
>>2726292
>Don't use sosiel
Built to be used by BWC.
>>
>>2726333
it's also a lot more customizable, you can make your classic EK with just wizard and EK levels, or you can make one of those scaled fist 1 / divine hunter 2 / sorcerer 3 / dragon disciple 4 / eldritch knight 10 monstrosities, or anything between those two extremes
>>
>>2726333
seeker sorcerer 6(for the feats, you can take the regular one for the fluff)
dragon disciple 4
eldritch knight 10
mythic is lich, has great gish potential
>>
>>2726337
>it's also a lot more customizable, you can make your classic EK with just wizard and EK levels
What if I wanted to be a big goof and make a sorcerer blaster EK who shoots lightning scorching rays
>>
>>2726342
azata->devil/is better for that
>>
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>>2726311
>play like I want you to play or you're playing wrong
>>
>>2726342
sure, you could

you could also make the meme +3 fire damage to each fire die build

or just scrap that shit and make a real blaster via kineticist
>>
>>2726352
they fixed the multiple dragon bloodline meme, no?
>>2726350
oh you're the three kingdoms anon? hi
>>
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>>2724929
I am your shield.
I am your sword.
>>
>>2726365
>he unironically plays demon as Evil
>instead of starting out NG then slowly descending to True Neutral only to redeem yourself
>>
>>2726362
Not sure that I am, I just like 3 kingdoms
>>
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>>2726367
I'm Griffith, not Lucifer.
>>
>>2726373
But you have to lick up demon cum off the floors to get there
>>
>>2726380
No, you don't. Just tell the proprietress to go fuck herself, kill her guards, and go to the next place.
>>
>>2726385
Oh neat
>>
>>2726385
then be an arrand boy, or else you'll anger the self insert nocticula whom you can't kill
>>
>>2726390
You can kill her tho
>>
>>2726392
you literally can't because she survives to meet you in the threshold
>>
>>2726393
and she runs off because she's terrified of you
>>
>>2726393
>you literally can't
She dies when she is killed, just like any of your party members, she just comes back
>>
>>2726393
Demon lords respawn in their domain if killed, you have to kill them twice before year passes to permanently remove them. Just like in Ascension ending
>>
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor is one of the most fun classes in the game and I'm tired of pretending it isn't
>>
*subsonic hums at you*
>>
>>2726498
>DC 40
>>
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Beaten the game as lichad when it relased. Is it already time for replay? I wanna play murderhobo angel
>>
>spend hours in pozzed realm
This is real AIDs.
The only true shit around here.
All others are straight games.
>>
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>>2726516
>lichad
>>
>>2726498
>drains dexterity
>>
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>>2726560
drain deez nuts
>>
>>2726595
how does the crystal get that buff
>>
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>>2726615
through jihad of course
>>
>>2726617
it's less funny when you know it just translates to "hard work" and not "holy war"
>>
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>>2726620
>implying there is a difference
>>
Builds aside is there anything that can be done about the fucking giraffe necks characters have in this game?
>>
>>2726637
dip into vivi
>>
>>2726637
don't play shit races
>>
>>2726637
It's so shit doesn't look so wonky in isometric and avoids clipping issues from that angle. It's shitty but it only is noticable on the inventory screen

>>2726651
Unfortunately it affects at least 3 of the official companions
>>
>>2726653
i know
don't play shit races
>>
>make a vivisectionist/scaledfist/dragondisciple
>give it kukuris
>buff it to hell before each battle
>sit back and read a book while you murder everything even on core because rtwp is a retarded system that can be bullied by auto attackers

Yeah, hard game you got there owlkeks.
>>
>>2726662
Should I switch from wielding daggers to kukris for a Swarm build I plan to make eventually?
>>
>>2726668
slashing vs piercing damage, take your pick really.
>>
>>2724929
Shield bash trickster.
>>
>>2726668
It literally doesn't matter. If you stack buffs high enough you can kill anything in the game in a matter of seconds via autos.
>>
>>2725248
Camellia, Seelah, Daeran, Sosiel and any ranged character, even better if you swap Daeran for a skald merc or play one yourself.
>>
>>2726680
How is he going to stack anything as swarm though?
>>
>>2726127
Oracle is slightly better for martial builds because of battle mystery. Clerics are far more valuable to the party though, WIS modifier to attacks AND saves for the entire party is pretty much unmatched in terms of utility, Mark of Justice being really the only thing that comes close.
>>
>>2726690
Dragon Disciple can get you up to lvl 3 buffs like haste, mirror image, etc. That should be enough for most things along with pots and the buffs you get for them with a dip into viv. Auto attacking is super OP.
>>
>>2726267
How does that work when paladin is a support class itself?
>>2726292
>Don't use sosiel. He doesn't have guarded hearth
You can just take impossible domain. Though of course, you could make a cleric of Erastil merc, but you won't get quite as good of a stat block as what Sosiel has.
>>
>>2726326
I still think the additional feat humans get is better.
>>
>>2726697
>playing a human in a fantasy game
>>
>>2726333
Unkillable Lich PC that can do more than just stand in the back and blast.
>>
>>2726699
Speaking of liches, why do so many builds go INT as the focus? The whole point of a lich is he gets to convert his CHA into HP so shouldn't CHA be what you use for magic scaling?
>>
>>2726697
nah, not unless you're really feat starved, and honestly how can you feel feat starved in a game with so many gifts thrown at you
>>
>>2726697
Elves are just plain better thanks to Elven Magic and Elven Immunities
>>
>>2726112
It's a faggy(jrpg) opinion though
>>
>>2726710
Seems to happen more often than not for me.
>>2726724
True on the elven magic, I might be biased due to not usually playing blasters. Immunities is definitely good, but I don't think it's as amazing as people claim.
>>
On discord, someone posted a picture of Guarded Hearth in the beta. The AB bonus is now competence and the bonus to saves is now resistance.

Looks like it has been nerfed! Fair in my opinion since it was an enormous crutch, though I hope Owlcat actually tries to rebalance encounters for the EE coming out end of September. Stat inflation is absurd.
>>
>>2726735
i never used it but there's like a thousand crutches in this game
>>
>>2726698
you sound like Larian
>>
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>>2726698
Yes
>>
>>2726815
>layers of coverings
>chest is an amorphous blob

Why does Owlcat hate breasts?
>>
>>2726820
>layers of covering
>no boobplate
Do you know what functional armor is?
>owlcat
That's not even owlcat art, retard
>>
>>2724920
Pathfinder gives you a lot of wiggle room though. Tons of options and multiple ways to cut it, there is no universal best but a lot of strategies with pros and cons.
>>2725521
In a real RPG you don't get to reload from a TPK and you don't have full control over each character. Even so since old school table top it was well known that so-called powergaming had a place in the hobby and should be rewarded for rules mastery and improving the success of the group.
>>2725593
>>2725659
Min/maxing is usually a newbie trap and leads to sub-optimal characters. It's a specific optimization strategy that relies on minimizing some things to maximize other things. This is a rule set where diminishing returns are heavily implied. Optimal strategies usually rely on averaging out where you can, covering your weaknesses, and usually going for a close to max investment in your main thing. Most people that do min/maxing talk about how they hate it and they're usually people that don't really understand why it's not number crunching optimal.
>>
>>2726710
>and honestly how can you feel feat starved in a game with so many gifts thrown at you

Unlike 99% of the people here I fucking hate savescumming so I always grab the fortitude, iron will, lighting reflexes feats so I can get the mythic versions

So yeah I'm always feat starved
>>
>>2727053
wow so for every 10 times someone else savescums you only do it 9 times?
>>
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>>2727116
>NOOOOOO NOCTICULA YOU CAN'T JUST PARALYZE MY ENTIRE TEAM I HAVE TO MAKE MY HECKIN CRIT BUILD WORK!!!
>Reloads until he can make a seductive presence save
>>
>>2727186
i don't play smelly martials, try again
>>
I like the two Pathfinder games, I don't like the default being a heavily boosted game though. Especially with WoftR where it's apparent from minute one. You're practically forced to minmax to some extent if you're not reducing the difficulty like a bitch and considering it's not an extremely balanced game some options are just straight ass
On another note please lower the damn powerlevels in the next game. Not even talking gameplaywise
>>
>>2727206
you're not forced to minmax on normal, and you're not reducing it to normal because that's the default :)
>>
>>2727003
>Most people that do min/maxing talk about how they hate it and they're usually people that don't really understand why it's not number crunching optimal.
The point is that trying to create 1 "best" way to play is retarded. It doesn't focus on freedom or what's fun to play. Because often what's best is just spamming one or a few things that are "best".
>>
>>2726709
Because sorcerers are gay.
>>
>>2727262
>regularly summon skeletons in battle
>pick the angel halo that damages undead
damn I'm retarded
>>
>at the end of Kingmaker
>march my character up to the final boss, a big fire ball, and stab it a bunch of times
>final boss: "okay let's cut a deal, Anon. Be my bitch and I'll let you live forever"
>former antagonist: "no be my bitch and I'll let you live forever just not as well"
>tell everyone to just go away
>they do
>immediately cut to a fifteen minute Animal House ending
that was not worth the hours wasted slogging around fuckhouse. Holy shit I mad.

anyways character building was fun but there were instances where my party would get damn near stonewalled and it was frustrating to stop and try to rework characters I don't like or make new characters from scratch. I also just found the general interface to be poorly laid out and not very well explained, so I ended up neglecting mechanics or just doing shit suboptimally by accident.
>>
>>2727367
IRL if you're new to the game the GM is supposed to help learn you
Ain't no GM in vidya
>>
>>2727435
I figured I knew enough about D&D 5E (and retained a little of 3E) that I could carry over enough know-how, and generally when it came to builds I was set. It was just some systems stuff or general "I want to do X, how do I do it" kinda shit, or stuff like not being prompted to add spells after you've learned them. Didn't help that I used Turn-Based a lot, which let into some glitches where abilities just didn't work for no reason and the turn was wasted.

Sussed out most things eventually, but a quick rundown of the menus would've saved me some trouble.
>>
>>2727461
Some of that has to do with supporting a wide variety of characters and playstyles. For example, on my current run I don't use Octavia but I do level her up sometimes when I get back to the throne room. If I got prompted to mess around with her spellbook each time I leveled her it would be annoying.
>>
>>2727186
>NOOOOOO NOCTICULA YOU CAN'T JUST PARALYZE MY ENTIRE TEAM I HAVE TO MAKE MY HECKIN CRIT BUILD WORK!!!

Pathfinder fags will be like "wow this shit is so easy look at me stacking offensive feats through the roof and oneshotting this boss" after reloading 15 times
>>
>>2724920
>it has to have a plot and quests
Why can't more games be like Battle Brothers? It plops you into the world, and you go around killing shit.
I don't need a fucking story and dialogue.
If Pathfinder was more like that it'd probably be my favorite game.
>>
>>2727552
I mean Kingmaker is extremely simple and is mostly like that, you just get to have a title and one massive cunt feels like he has to be a BBEG from time to time. Solasta is like that too.
>>
>>2727552
>playing D&D for the combat
>actually playing PF, of all the D&D version and variants, for the combat
Sometimes I'll swear you guys have brain damage.
>>
>>2727521
>>2727186
If you're not running around with 6x Freedom of Movement buffs at all times, you're playing wrong.
>>
>>2727580
>playing D&D for the combat
...combat is like 90% of D&D, even in tabletop.
>>
>>2727602
Will you ever stop spamming this retarded take and get a proper dm
>>
>>2727556
True, but you still have to go through the motions on every single playthrough.
The open world, little to no plot, is clearly the superior way, and much, much harder to do.
>>
>>2727604
>You're in a number crunching group
>REEEEEEEEEE YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG
why are RPfags like this? Go play make believe in a padded cell lunatic.
>>
>It's the wohjakhsposter
Sorry for giving him a (You)
>>
>>2727611
I don't know who that is, and I haven't posted a single wojak.
But if he actually prefers to, you know, PLAY the fucking game, instead of (pretending to be) being gay and shit, then he's correct.
>>
>>2724920
Nothing says RPG quite like making builds for characters that make absolutely no sense towards their personalities, lives, training or even physical capabilities in order to mechanically exploit easily discernable gaps in man-made balance spreadsheets. It just immerses you, you know?
>>
>>2727604
Fags like you don't even play Pathfinder, you ignore all the rules and play "Mother may I?"
>>
>>2727651
This post is filled with feminine energy
>>
>>2727651
Have you considered using the system to make a build that matches your character, instead of the other way around? If you just want to play make believe why are you playing a game with set rules?
>>
Is is true that if you shield bash you lose shield bonus to AC until your next turn?

What's the fucking point then?
>>
>>2727879
balance :^)
>>
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>>2727879
>>2727886
wait fucking what? Nowhere does it say that on the feat. What in the actual FUCK?
>>
>>2727907
>Improved Shield Bash
>Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield’s shield bonus to your AC.
>Normal: Without this feat, a character that performs a shield bash loses the shield’s shield bonus to AC until his next turn (see Equipment).
>>
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>>2727972
Why the fuck wouldn't that be disclosed on the REGULAR fucking shield bash feat?
>>
>>2728035
Fucking pranked nerd, git rekt
>>
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>>2728037
>>
>>2724920
I really wanna play this game, is it worth the money or should I just wait for a sale/pirate it?
>>
>>2728184
It's not even worth playing. It's completely shit.
>>
>>2727218
This anon gets it
>>
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>>2728184
Play Kingmaker first if you haven't already, else you'll get your world rocked by the absurd power scaling.
Always pirate first then buy later to "support the devs" or just to make the updating process less of a pain.
But imo it's worth the money because it's genuinely a pretty good CRPG. Be advised that the DLCs for WotR so far are not worth it, but the ones for Kingmaker definitely are.
>>
Are the romances any good? Because they all look like shit.
>>
>>2728203
Arueshalae is the only good romance in Wrath. Everything other romance is trash because the characters are also trash.
>>
>>2728206
Why would I want to play an RPG where the characters all suck?
>>
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>>2724920
>take a break after first run
>plan on playing ranger for second run
>remember that the slutty swiss army knife succubus with god-endowed PB exists
>>
>>2728207
For build autism I guess. One of the reasons why I personally didn't like either Kingmaker or Wrath was because the casts of both games were dogshit and annoying. They feel as if written by 14 year olds with a lot of zoomer speak in a medieval fantasy setting.
>>
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>>2728203
I can vouch for Arue and Galfrey's. No idea about the dudes, though.
>>
>>2728207
They don't.
>>
>>2728207
You're free not to. Pathfinder isn't exactly known for its steller writing.
>>
>>2727654
It's Mother May I by the fucking book, anon. You can't do anything in d20 games without a feat that says you can. If anything, ignoring the stupid rules that define what you can't do make it LESS 'Mother May I'.
>>
Azata or Aeon for kineticist?
>>
>>2728302
>You can't do anything in d20 games without a feat that says you can.
False claim.
>If anything, ignoring the stupid rules that define what you can't do make it LESS 'Mother May I'.
If you rely on the GM changing everything, then you never actually accomplish anything. You don't beat an encounter, you have it handed to you if the GM likes what you're doing.
>>
>>2728309
aeon because it's the best mythic path
>>
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>>2728220
>arue
Shit.
>>
>>2728310
>False claim
He's right actually, 3.5 and pathfinder especially have this issue with feat bloat where your character can't do anything without a feat. 5e of all editions solved it by giving all the feats as standard features for all characters though that comes with it's own set of issues.
>>
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>>2728203
daeran is the only good romance in wrath. Sosiel's romance is hilarious if you go demon. Lann romance is cringe kino. Camelia roamnce is... unique. The rest aren't worth mentioning
>>
Give me a kino thematic build for Aeon
>>
>>2728457
Dhampir inquisitor with scythe, pharasma diety
>>
>>2728466
Nah, Aeon should be atheist, given that monad does not exist in the game. Acting on behalf of a deity and extending their influence is antithetical to the spirit of the aeon. The game also is mistaken in making the "true aeon" lawful neutral rather than just simply neutral.
>>
>>2728466
are there any good scythes even
>>
>>2728480
Deskari's
>>
>>2728484
that seems a little late
>>
>>2728523
Honestly every weapon type is shit except falchion, scimitar, rapier and kukri.
>>
>>2728480
Wide sweep
>>
>>2727367
I got the harem ending lol.
I used Tsunami in the final battle expecting it not to work and it actually did which was really memorable lol.
>>
Guys, do azata songs act as bardic performances for the purposes of interaction?

Meaning would lingering performance work with azata songs?
>>
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Jesus, I just realized half-elves can start with 22 CHA
>>
>>2728203
I like arue
>>
I like Cephal and Regill. I like how owlkeks write evil characters
>>
>>2728658
Regill is barely evil outside of his introduction
>>
>>2728667
>>2728640
Overrated and not that strong, it's like oh wow, one extra point of AC or like one extra spell slot for cha caster.
>>
>>2728680
Doesn't it also add 1 extra point of DC?
>>
Is there a character builder where I can plan out my builds for Wrath?
>>
>>2728718
>DC caster
Cringe and gay.
>>
>>2728450
No, he's not right, even though feat bloat is a real issue. Most of the roleplaying things you do don't involve feats. The things that do involve feats are mostly combat-related, and if you want meaningful combat then you should be against GM fiat taking it over.
>>2728680
20->22 is actually two extra spells, one of which is a sixth-level spell. It also improves your DC's, class features, skills, and possibly a host of other things depending on your feats.
>>
>>2728720
You can pretty much just use one for tabletop.
>>
>>2728725
Is there a good online resource for that?
There are so many options. I feel completely lost.
>>
>>2728729
Can't recommend anything specific, but you should find plenty of builders. Just be aware that there's a few homebrew classes in Wrath.
>>
>>2728720
if you have the first dlc you can use that as a character builder. It's a bit clunky, but that's the best you're gonna get
>>
>>2728746
What are the dlcs?
>>
>>2728532
You forgot Longsword
>>
>>2728751
That's just a worse scimitar.
>>
Is there any merit to taking 8 levels in Dragon Disciple?

Can I take levels in DD as a Sage Sorcerer using 2nd bloodline Mythic?
>>
>>2728680
>Yeah my sorcerer should invest into uh str
>>
>>2724929
kitsune scaled monk vivisector paladin with a party full of pet owners
>>
>4 levels of barbarian to pick up bite, beast totem (2 claw attacks), and uncanny dodge
>16 levels of monk
Im gonna use cheats to change the alignment. Other than that how does this sound as a build. No I dont want to dip into vivisectionists.
>>
>>2728765
just go instinctual warrior desu
>>
>>2728761
>fatass unfit Sorcerer with big charisma and even bigger belly
>badass fit Sorc with massive STR to go with big charisma
The choice is obvious.
>>
>>2728765
Claws don't stack with monk I don't think. You don't need to cheat, just start neutral and take lawful decisions, then hold at the edge until you hit level 5. With that said Instinctual Warrior is basically what you want and would let you take pounce from beast totem which is the reason to take it.
>>
>>2728765
Rage doesn't work for lawful characters IIRC. You could however just go straight monk and get a skald merc.
>>
>>2728769
I've done that and it was fun. Wanting to play around with a pure unarmed build
>>2728775
I thought natural attacks played after all the primary attacks which would include FOB
>>
>>2728777
I was actually thinking of using the mod that adds the brawler class instead. Maybe instinctual warrior--> brawler
>>
Is there any Mythic ability that gives +1 Sneak Attack dice for non-rogue characters?
>>
>>2728788
I think you can take mythic sneak attacker as long as you have at least one sneak die, i.e. playing trickster.
>>
>>2728788
there's a book in act 5 that gives you sneak dice
>>
How do Stormlord's Bracers interact with the bloodline bonus dice?
If I cast a fire spell which I then convert into lightning with the Bracers, do I still get the bonus dice?
>>
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>>2728341
>psycho elf
>>
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I almost hate how comfy the angel oracle is
What other mythic combos are as feature rich and fun?
>>
>>2728823
aeon and lich are only good mythic paths
>>
>>2728823
Lich+Sorc
Azata+Sorc
>>
>>2728834
Sorcerers are gay.
>>
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>Mediocre caster
>Mediocre melee
>Mediocre spell list
>All its unique abilities can be had by other classes by just taking a domain/mistery/bloodline
>One of 2 classes that actually LOSES his powers if you alignment shift from neutral

Why are druids so cucked?
>>
>>2728858
They just want to chill in the woods. Nothing wrong with that.
>>
>>2728667
>Regill is barely evil outside of his introduction
You can tell a character's actual alignment by how they treat Ember.
>Actually evil
Camellia
Seelah
>Actually good or neutral
Regill
Greybor
Daeran
>>
>>2728863
Well Daeran is more like chaotic neutral aside from the fact that he's a deliberate asshole to everyone.
>>
Which element is the best to be immune to?
Fire? Lightning?
>>
>>2728865
The only reason to pick lightning is to survive Korramazdeh's first turn
>>
>>2728865
Iron.
>>
>>2728868
I think the answer should be fire right?
What do demons commonly use?

>>2728869
Not an option sadly.
I'm just trying to figure out with Sorc bloodline I should pick.
>>
>>2728872
Depends on the demon, brimoraks use fire, but lategame demons do use cold and lightning

Imo the best element to be immune to is lightning, because if you can't explode Korramazdeh on your second turn he oneshots your party
>>
>>2728875
It's actually pretty funny how rocket tag esque his fight is
I'm pretty sure the only thing stronger than him is Ereshkigal
>>
>>2728883
Nocticula is stronger
>>
>>2728865
Just cast a full set of resist/prot element using Camellia.
>>
Is Aeon Druid focused on summoning a good idea? After first playthrough I noticed I've found a ton of items that buff summoning
>>
>>2728900
summoning sucks
>>
>>2728875
Okay. Lightning seems good.
Thanks!
>>
>>2728900
Only point of using summons is to body block shit, Camellia, Daeran and even Sosiel can all do it for you.
>>
>>2728780
Most natural attacks would but my understanding is that claws don't get included as secondary to non-natural weapons. Maybe it would work with unarmed strike, I haven't tried it. I'd still stand by taking the barb levels being weaker than pure monk though, you're trading better damage dice on your flurry'd unarmed strikes for first level rage and a secondary natural attack, on top of losing ki powers.
>>
>use brain to build the strongest builds known to man
These days 90%+ of 'min-maxers' just look up builds online and mindlessly copy them with no real system understanding.
>>
>>2728975
Funny thing is that's exactly what most wizard classes do. Entire spellbooks full of magic that other people developed.
The man who invented the first magic missile could cast it at-will, because he knew what he was doing.
>>
>Varnhold's lot dlc
>centaurs act like retards
>turns out they are desna followers
ah, of course
>>
>>2728981
>wizards are retarded zoomers who can't into magic, so they just copy others
wizardbos...
>>
>>2728975
I bet very few pathfinder players do this. You don't seem to understand the mindset. Optimizing a build is part of the game, arguably the most interesting part when we're talking about Pathfinder.
>>
>>2728975
i made an original aeon build and i'm proud of it
>>2728981
yeah just like you use pcs without the knowledge of logic gates or microarchitecture
>>
>>2728990
Exactly.
>>
I don't care about the best builds. I just want to play the character I want, one that looks fun. Surely I can't be the only one?
>>
>>2728995
>Surely I can't be the only one?
You're not. Sadly, these Pathfinder games weren't made for people like you. They were made with the assumption that you would be going for the best build possible. They aren't designed for you to be able to take on threats your own way.
>>
>>2728999
>They were made with the assumption that you would be going for the best build possible.
What do you think you get out of lying and deceiving people like this?
>>
>>2728999
> They aren't designed for you to be able to take on threats your own way.
That's only true if you go for the harder difficulties where near-perfect builds are a must.
>>
>>2729004
(You)s.
>>
>>2728900
Druid is probably the best summoner, generally nature's ally summons run into melee and don't waste time self buffing. Creeping Doom and summon Elder Worm are also decent. Aeon is good for debuffing enemies so that could work, Swarm also seems like a good option since it gets built in damage if your summons are falling off late game. Merging with Angel would also let you get better summons faster.
>>
>Lich+Sorc
>Angel+Orc
Are these the strongest characters?
>>
>>2729021
orcs are niggers of fantasy so they can't be angels
>>
>>2728995
Good for you, but there's nothing to discuss about that.
>>
>>2729021
why would you be an orc as an angel? the bite attack requires a feat
>>
>>2729028
because having a fun build never stops anyone completing the game. getting autistic about the most OP and being forced into a certain character sounds boring af
>>
>>2729032
I consider myself an optimizer but I don't force myself into one particular character or anything like that. Sorry you don't like using your brain to make your character good. Enjoy your fantasy, but the abundance of crunch and potential optimization is what sets Pathfinder apart.
>>
>>2729007
>>2728999
Not even then. I mean you could beat core or above even doing pretty non-optimal things like taking multiple weapon focuses and so on. Even on unfair the part that requires either save scumming or rolling a bunch of pet classes is just the very first part.
>>
>>2729021
I think a trickster shield bashing build is stronger, doesn't even need rests.
>>
>>2729032
It's way overstated, especially the focus on AC. As long as you can reach like 45-50 AC unbuffed by the end game you're more or less fine.
>>
>>2729014
Druids are pretty scuffed though aside from the unique spells they get in their book. I loremastered creeping doom but I really wasnt satsified with it outside the few times someone tried to physical damage it distracting them. With all the demons with their dr they dont do a lot pf splash damage either. Druids can manage a pretty good caster as feyspeaker though you can make ele rampager work on core.
>>
>>2729038
Makes sense. Thanks.
>>
>>2729038
>45-50 AC unbuffed
That's still pretty fucking immense.
>>
>>2729037
Doesn't trickster need to rest for the infinite 20s? Or can you extend that to 24 hours?
>>
>>2729053
A heavy armor tank can reach over 40 with mithral full plate, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor and a shield.
Not counting more unique pieces of equipment that offer different bonuses and feats (though they add like +4-5 at most, but still and class abilities.
>>
>>2729064
While trick fate guarantees it, if your main weapon has a 50% to crit. you kill within the round no matter what
>>
>>2728883
My experience with Khorr is riding my horse first round and killing him in a full attack first run, and lich instakilling him second
>>
>>2724930
>instantly dies to stat drain
Nothing personnel, gem.
>>
>>2729069
Trickster shield bash relies on getting crits with your shield not your main weapon, so it doesn't work very well without trick fate. At that point you're better off with a 2H sword saint build. It doesn't do literally infinite damage like the shield bash build, but it hits high enough that the difference doesn't really matter and you can actually just fully spec into your main weapon so it functions well even without trick fate. The main choice then is whether you go with a a high crit range weapon like an Estoc (better without TF) or a high crit multiplier weapon like a Scythe (better with TF).
>>
I figured out all the good Hexes for Ember now. They are all Hexes that buff, your party, or hexes that will always work against opponent for at least 1 round.

Ward
Vulnerability Curse
Protective Luck
Nails
Iceplant
Healing
Fortune
Evil Eye
Cackle
Aura of Purity
Ameliorating
Regenerative Sinew (Major Hex)
Major Healing (Major Hex)
Major Ameliorating (Major Hex)
Delicious Fright (Major Hex)
Beast's Gift (Major Hex)
Animal Skin (Major Hex)
Life Giver (Grand Hex)

Of these 18 Hexes, only 3 of them are offensive hexes.
Evil Eye
Vulnerability Curse
Delicious Fright (Major Hex)
Should I pick all 3? Or should I optimise defensively for prep, and stick to 1 offensive Hex?

Ember can have 11 Hexes in total,
1 offensive Hex + Cackle means 9 hexes for defesive prep-work.
3 offensive Hexes + Cackle means I will only have 7 defensive Hexes. And during battle I won't be able to cast fast enough to justify 3 offensive Hexes.

So is the best strategy to just pick Evil Eye, and rely on its multi-ability and hope that'sflecible enough?
Or do I definitely need the other 2 hexes as well?
>>
>>2729073
>My experience with Khorr is riding my horse first round and killing him in a full attack first run

That's actually a bug.
You're not supposed to be able to take a full action independent of your mount (it's fixed in tabletop tweaks), meaning if your mount moves you also count as moving (or at least that's how it's supposed to work).

There's actually a way to have a full round attack when mounted and your mount has moved but I forgot which class/feat/ability granted that.
>>
>>2729090
Are you not picking slumber bc it's too broken? And where's misfortune?
>>
>>2729097
Those two can be negated by saving throw, so I dodged those.
>>
>>2729090
Do not pick any heal ones unless you want to be carried a bit o nearly unfair chapter 1.
Shit like Nails and Iceplant are useless for her.

Misfortune is also great.
If you make Ember primary a fire blaster, then pick evil eye, cackle and a few to prebuff with.
If you are primarily using hexes and her non ray spells, pick up more buffs/debuffs to keep alive with cackle
>>
>>2729098
Early game act1-2 when enemy will is +6 to your DC of 20 for slumber, it's a good pick. It's incredibly broken when Ember sleeps the entire screen.
>>
>>2729101
>Do not pick any heal ones
Not even the Regenerative Sinew?

I figured they might be a useful free heal spell per day.
>>
>>2729108
Sinew is a major hex, right ? Which you get first at lv 10. For a bot of fast healing or getting effect of restoration
She gets access to the actual heal spell by lv 14.
Is the one heal per day worth it over another major hex for these 4 levels , is what you need to ask yourself.
>>
>Beast's Gift
>The witch can use her magic to grant her allies ferocious animal abilities. The witch can partially transform a willing ally, granting him natural attacks for a number of minutes equal to the witch’s level. Choose one: the creature gains one bite attack that deals 1d8
Goddamn this is so powerful. If I can figure out how to give every melee a sneak attack dice, Ember will be able to amplify all of them with +1 attack per round.
>>
Speaking of Beast's Gift Hex, what happens if you cast it on an animal companion who already has Bite?

Would it be better to select a different animal companion that does not have bite, just so it can gain an additional bite?
>>
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Am I retarded or does cavalier not have anything unique about it when it comes to actually riding and fighting mounted?
>>
>>2729123
they're FANTASTIC at charging.
>>
>>2729101
>Iceplant are useless for her.
Isn't that the one that gives her a free +2 armor class?
That seems to be beneficial, since there are other feats that only give +1 AC.
>>
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>>2729123
Your job is to run with a pointy thing and stick it.
Also,. horses are pretty fucking durable
>>
>>2729134
If Ember cast Beast's Gift on the horse will it actually gain +1 Bite +2 Claw attacks?
>>
>>2729132
While I am not of the school of thought that says Spellcasters should not bother at all with defense that is not an AoE spell, a +2 from a hex is not great value, IMO. Like, cast barkskin, shield of faith and mage armor, blur etcr when you have abundnats online so some sniping faggots do not kill her in one round no matter what. But sacrificing buffs/debuffs enemies cannot resist for +2 AC that nobody in the party can really replicate except for Cam to an extent ?
>>
>>2729142
It's probably also not RP friendly. She can hardly be an iceplant when she is supposed to dark ash skin from constantly casting fire spells.

Camellia is probably a good target for Iceplant though.
>>
>>2729087
>Trickster shield bash relies on getting crits with your shield not your main weapon
>Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.
>>
>>2729090
Most of that is totally irrelevant. All you need is fortune, prot luck, evil eye and cackle.
>>
>>2729123
Cavalier is pretty well balanced for a martial but you have shit like mutt warrior that outclass it so hard its not fair.
>>2729116
Beast Gift is pretty fantastic was apart of my natty attack demon build I crushed the game with on unfair. My only complaint is that it doesn't have much of an animation
>>2729118
should grant an additional bite as it did so when my character already had 5 bites.
>>2729108
they just aren't as good as other options and if you needed a healer you have Soseil/Daeran.
>>2729107
Yeah its pretty great early on. Even better when you have Cam+Ember evil eyeing dropping their will by 8 but I think if you rush evil eye on cam she is a bit squishy.
>>
>>2729108
Total waste of a hex, healing is plentiful in this game.
>>
>>2729123
Cavalier's charge dude, no other class has that.
>>
>>2729152
It is, but it's generally one of the last hexes you take on her, even though she is a melee fighter.
>>
>>2729160
I think I'm going to turn Ember into my Cackle buffing witch + evil eye during combat.

Camellia can have the rest of the attacking Hexes.
>>
>>2729168
>I think I'm going to turn Ember into my Cackle buffing witch + evil eye during combat.
just be warned that will be extemely effective and extremely boring
>>
>>2729172
After the first turn, she actually gets to cast so it's not that bad.
>>
>>2729172
Wait, I should probably do it the other way around.

Camelia can be the Cackle witch, she buffs prior to battle, and during battle she will be busy attacking.
Ember should be the the one with all of the attacking Hexes.
>>
>>2729175
not even. you typically want all 3 debuffs on bosses, plus misfortune, so that's at least 4 turns before she can start casting
>>
>>2729184
and in regular battles with, say, babaus that have fuck you crit chance you'd want ab debuff on all of them
>>
As a blast Sorc, what am I supposed to do until I get Chain Lightning?
Just cast Grease?
>>
>>2729188
scorching ray I guess
>>
>>2729184
I usually kill the boss the round after -AC or - Saves sticks.
>>
>>2729188
With all the extra fire damage equipment, basic rays and fireballs actually do good work.
Though if you are waiting to get chain lightning online, you probably are not picking Ascendant fire. Though you can respec later
>>
>>2729188
Hurricane bow, pit, spiked pit, acid pit, hungry pit, ur mom's pit
>>
>>2729195
Isn't good enough.

>>2729202
I guess I can just use all the fire stuff. If I'm gonna respec though, maybe it would make more sense to play a different character until the appropriate level at which point I respec lol.

>>2729209
Sorcerer can't trade away all that useless shit at high levels though...
>>
>>2729226
Even if you say 'blaster sorcerer', you get enough feats and spell choices to specialize in 2 schools at least (and then suddenly make a 3d one great too with expended mythic feat).
Only extra feat tax is point blank/precices for rays specifically, I guess.
But if you are not getting chain early, you could do conjuration CC early on till you get the blasting online at lv 12.
>>
>200 hundred years later Grease is still the best spell in the game
how does it do it?
>>
>>2729163
>Beast Gift is pretty fantastic
It sounds almost too OP to be true. It's a real force multiplier if it works across the entire party....

Does it work on the entire party? Can she give Beast's Gift to multiple people at once?
>>
>Bloodrager has bonus abilities active while raging
>Epic Trait lets you rage forever
Is there any downside or nerf to this idea or can I just go Bloodrager 20 and pull my devil trigger?
>>
>>2729266
it ends after you fight
>>
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>Make strongest most min/max characters possible
>Game becomes braindead easy
>Self-reflection kicks in and you realize there's no stakes
>Lose emotional investment
>Game's story hits a slow point
>Start dreaming of playing different games

Hyper min/maxing is just low-tier cheat codes, and there's a good reason most gamers stop using cheat codes after a year or two
>>
>>2729266
Aside from not being tireless till 17, not really
>>
>>2729233
Well yea but conjuration CC is pretty boring lol.

>>2729242
Because it's not affected by Spell Resistance and basically shuts down the target if it fails the save.

Very strong for a level 1 spell.
>>
>>2729270
It's actually not, even if you pick a strong ability, the ability will only be used so long as you bother using it.
>>
>>2729273
Conjuration was just an example.
Besides, most demons are weak with will saves and you do get plenty of items that boost illusion/enhanyment and boost will related shit
>>
>>2729274
Why pick an ability if you're not going to use it? That's like anti fun.

It's better to have a weak ability that you won't feel guilty using than a strong ability where you will.
>>
>>2729278
It's something you adjust subconsciously. If you think something is too powerful and feel you don't really need it, you won't bother using it too much.
>>
Looks like Camellia doesn't get her 3rd Hex until level 8. That's just an uncomfortably huge delay.

If her level 4 Hex is Cackle, then what would be the best pick for her level 2 Hex?
Fortune?
Or Protective Luck?
>>
>>2729275
Would I be gimping myself too hard by not going half-elf? Going from a +4 CHA bonus to +2 seems huge...
>>
>>2729303
It's a +1 on the modifier, which is pretty good ,but you are not crippled.
And you may want to play sage sorcerer, if you go demon for example
>>
>>2729294
I have taken evil eye for stacking debuffs with ember immediately as well as frightening display to go into shatter defenses fast
>>
>>2729294
I unironically don't make her lvl 4 hex cackle.

Fortune is god for those skill rolls you have to savescum. Sleep is god for when the toasted elf is absent. After that you might want Ice Plant if she's off-tanking. I know everyone sucks cackle off but I don't even bother until mid to game.
>>
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>The witch can't cast Ward Hex on herself
Workaround.
Camellia cast Ward on Ember.
Ember cast Ward on Camellia.
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>cavalier banner is literall the equivalent of a lvl 1 spell spread across 3 feats

Why do you cuck martials so Owlcat
>>
>The witch can become an animal. This ability is similar to beast shape II, polymorphing the witch into a leopard.
Would this be a good idea for Ember?
Can she still cast spells even when she is a Leopard?

It might give her way more STR, and a bump in stats in general.
>>
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How important is charisma and speech in general in this game? Im trying to figure out what to play, should I invest into a silver tongue kinda character or can I get around without it?
>>
>>2729244
Yes. Ember is one of the most powerful party members you get. Which is good because your only arcane full caster is a furry. The downside to Beasts Gift is I believe its done at -5 chance to hit because it would count as a "secondary attack"
>>
>>2729343
Mate

What exactly are you trying to do?

>>2729344
For the MC it's not that important, perception and trickery are more important because you will find yourself in some secions where you can use companions for those two skillchecks

Otherwise you can just have a companion with high cha proficent in persuasion (like Daeran), the only reason you would want persuasion on your character is if you don't have any companion with good persuasion or you're going for thug dip+ dreadful carnage
>>
>>2729348
>>2729344
> because you will find yourself in some secions where you can use companions for those two skillchecks

Some sections where you CAN'T*
Sorry it's late
>>
>>2729340
Is it a passive ability?

If it is, that's actually much more powerful than the spell, which drains away at your action economy.
>>
>>2729244
It's a min/level buff, potent while it lasts.
>>
>>2729348
>What exactly are you trying to do?
Uncrippling her STR with Leopard form would increase her carrying capacity for example.
>>
>>2729352
Bro banner is literally replaced by spell, a lvl 1 spell
Who gives a fuck about a lvl1 slot
>>
>>2729359
You have 1 action for a spell per round, are you really going to waste that action on that spell?
>>
>>2729360
It's not an action you use during combat, I'm talking about bless and later on, heroism and greater heroism (which are much more powerful)
>>
>>2729348
>perception and trickery are more important
how important are we talking here, should I actually invest into trickery even as a spellcaster? Perception I usually put points into anyway in these games
>>
>>2729363
>I'm talking about bless
You're talking about a spell that runs out after 60 seconds.

Don't lie to me. Do you REALLY waste your time casting that spell?
>>
>>2729363
Bless is single target, min/level. Heroism and Greater Heroism do indeed make it redundant, but they require a significant investment to buff your party.
>>
>>2729364
Trickery just allows you to unlock some chests at camp, I honestly don't remember if there's any useful loot.
Perception is pretty important particularly if you want the secret ending
>>
>>2729370
>Bless is single target
>>
>>2729368
>>2729370
What? Bless is 1 min per caster level for your entire team, and at level 5 (which is when you get banner) it would be 5 minutes, more than enough for any encounter
>>
>>2729373
okay guess not (I never actually cast it), but it is still short duration
>>
>>2729375
The only time I ever used that spell was in the tutorial map, and it sucked so I never used it again.
>>
>>2729372
I guess Ill discover SOME kind of ending, anyway. Not looking anything up, I just hope theres a good deal of time to waste here. Not sure if I should look up the details of the mythic paths to avoid missing any, well see
>>
>>2729375
do you prebuff before every encounter?
>>
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>why yes I do cast Guidance on each party member between combats, how could you tell?
>>
>>2729378
I'll just say it's very, very VERY unlikely you'll get the secret ending anyway in a blind run, so you should probably get whatever skills you want
>>
>>2729375
Spending some feats to get permanent spell effects is actually a fair thing.
>>
>>2729184
Honestly that's probably overkill, but you do you man.
>>
>>2729294
For Camellia, I typically do prot luck at 2, evil eye at 4, fortune at 8 and chant at 10.
>>2729329
Completely unnecessary. Ember doesn't need the AC because she's supposed to be well out of attacking range and Camellia has enough AC already.
>>
>>2729348
>Otherwise you can just have a companion with high cha proficent in persuasion (like Daeran), the only reason you would want persuasion on your character is if you don't have any companion with good persuasion or you're going for thug dip+ dreadful carnage
This is not really worth it, because by the time you'll regularly need to hit flat-footed AC you'll likely have a character with frightful aspect available.
>>
>>2729407
You can get cornugon smash online at least quite faster than 8 level spells, and dreadful carnage comes fast on slayer and ranger, so it's not bad
>>
>>2729407
I think you're confusing shatter defenses with dreadful carnage
>>
>>2724920
Wizard
>>
>>2729402
>chant
Is that a Shaman specific Hex?
It's not listed in the wiki for Witch hexes.
>>
>>2729416
Cackle.
>>
>>2729416
I think he meant cackle
>>
If it even necessary to have Cackle if all you to is cast attacking Hexes on the opponents?
>>
>>2729290
That's not at all how gamers play/humans operate.
It's called "dominate strategy" in game theory, and people will always leans towards the simplest solution with the most guaranteed results.

It's literally the reason metas exist.
>>
>>2729410
>>2729411
Didn't really find much need for flat-footed AC before act 4, and Camellia conveniently gets 8th level spells around that point. Frightful aspect is also really good in that opponents don't get to save against it and that the effect persists for as long as the spell user is near the enemy.
>>
>>2729425
>That's not at all how gamers play/humans operate.
Wrong, you will figure out eventually what's "enough", and then you're going to cut corners and ignore the unnecessary stuff.
That's how every normal person operates, but I wouldn't expect an autist to know that.
>>
>>2729424
No.
>>2729425
"dominant strategy"
>>
>>2729416
>>2729419
>>2729420
Chant is the shaman version of cackle.
>>2729424
It's main benefit is for fortune/prot luck. Though of course you could want evil eye to both ac and ab active regardless of saves. Personally I think it's better to just attack in 99% of cases.
>>
>>2729428
I think you're misunderstanding thug+dreadful carnage.

You shaken enemies with frightful presence yes, then when you kill an enemy with a character with high intimidation and dreadful charnage you get a free dazzling display, because you have frightnenig from Thug your free dazzling display will actually FEAR all the enemies around you, making them unable to act.

It's a well known (and very powerful) combo, able to trivialize encounters like playful darkness, it's also infamous for being very annoying and antifun since you just end up chasing enemies that can't fight back.
>>
>>2729428
It makes Blackwater and Midnight fane a breeze
>>
>>2729433
>>2729434
Ah, that is indeed quite powerful. Not sure how useful it would really be against the tougher enemies though, since if I'm reading the description correctly they do get to save against it.
>>
If you were going to dual class Hellknight fully (all 10 levels) what would you make your other half?
>>
>>2729429
Wrong.
>>
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>>2728764
>>
>>2729521
Scaled fist and/or oracle to take advantage of cha score, otherwise probably just mutation warrior or something for damage and extra feats.
>>
>>2728753
Yeah but the game throws so many unique longswords at you.
>>
>>2729521
He gets armor bonus, so something which normally uses heavy armor will be great.
Kinetic Knight 10 would be cool.
You can make it a Freebooter as well. 10 Freebooter is solid, and you get a free endurance feat which works well with armor.
7 levels of 2 handed fighter is always a solid choice. 3 free levels left.
>>
>spec Lann into a crusader
>take 1 level of Loremaster to grab GVS
>buff his STR and WIS
>max out mobility
>take all regular and mythic weapon focus/crit feats
>equip Killing Pace
>equip other gear that increases ranged damage
>800+ damage on crits
Thanks Lann, you're awesome Lann
>>
>>2729090
Agony is good for those faggy casting bugs, if you fail to kill them instantly.
>>
>>2729546
Kinectic knight would not work well with hellknight due to the way kinectic blade is a spell fore fire and pure fire is the only way to play a kinectic knight without being a burden. Plus kinectist are pretty pure. If you had to have a hellknight.. 11 paladin for their aoe smite evil and add on your smite chaos so you can actually hit.
>>
>>2729582
>Kinectic knight would not work well with hellknight due to the way kinectic blade is a spell
I don't even understand you argument.

Why can't a Hellknight wield a magic sword?
>>
>>2726820
breastplate is always a blob so even if weapon manages to pierce it it won't reach the body
kinda like modern bullet armour
>>
>>2729509
If you build a strength character that is all good at persuasion they are rolling against +40 or more. Only issue is the enemies immune to shaken. Shaken was much better in kingmaker. As was trip. Cant trip hardly anything in wotr
>>
>>2729432
I almost never use them except against really hard bosses since ember targets touch ac so shes blasting and camcam is wet paper without fighting defensive
>>
>>2729583
Kinectic Knights scale off Con/str/dex, int, wis, and cha are dump stats. Kinectic Knights also go pure, because of how their damage scales with elements/infusions. Kinectic blades are bad unless its fire-fire. Fire blades arent actual physical blades, they are spells and go through DR and target touch AC already. Hellknights only benefit is the armor training
>>
>>2729593
>Kinectic Knights scale off Con/str/dex
So does Hellknight.

>Kinectic blades are bad unless its fire-fire
You don't need Fire-Fire, in fact you don't need composites at all. Single fire will do fine.
If you prefer Ice, or lightning those are fine too.
You don't have to be greedy and demand 20 levels of Kinetic knight. Even 10 levels deals plenty damage.

>they are spells and go through DR and target touch AC already
This is a good thing which I'm sure every Hellknight would be happy to have.
>>
>>2729599
>Hell Knight scales off Cha. Which is a dump stat for KK.
>fire & earth are the only ones with infusions that do anything for melee. Water/air offer nothing. I played single fire with double earth as azata with zippy magic and it still felt bad. You need blue flame.
>except you miss out on some of the bonuses. Like their capstone which offers no synergy
Maxed Hell Knight and Kinectic Knight sound loreful in your head but in terms of class design offer very little. The overwhelming soul could get benefit from it but you dont have heavy armor prereq
>>
>>2729610
>Hell Knight scales off Cha. Which is a dump stat for KK.
That's a good point.

>You need blue flame.
Blue flame will never stop causing burns. It's a retarded thing with limited use, you just become a tired mage who needs resting.

>fire & earth are the only ones with infusions that do anything for melee. Water/air offer nothing.
Water gives you Bull Rush, Greater BullRush, and all 3 Blindfight feats.
It also gives you Shroud of Water.

Wind gives you Enveloping Wind. It also gives you Haste, and it gives you Aerial Evasion.
You can also grab things like Deflect Arrows, Lightning reflexes, Dodge, Combat mobility.

The build will probably work.
>>
>>2729588
>camcam is wet paper without fighting defensive
Oh? She pretty easily gets to ~50 AC unbuffed by level 20 single-classed.
>>
>>2729630
>50 AC
lol
lmao even
>>
>>2729633
50 AC unbuffed is very good, especially for a single class character. More than enough for anything in the game.
>>
>>2729637
It's a troll who exploits dips and laugh at anyone who don't.
>>
>>2724920
>viv/scaled monk/dragon disciple
>give kukuris
>buff to shit and back pre-fight
>walk over literally everything in the game by autoing everything to death

Great game you got here, owlcucks.
>>
>>2729641
If that makes you so butthurt, then simply don't do it.
>>
>>2729641
>garden variety demons can cast dispel magic at-will according to the ruleset
>they never once think about doing this in the game
>>
>>2729643
yeah, because i sure want to spend every waking moment of my life reaplying buffs. fuck dispell. doubly so since it never works for the payer but always works for the enemy
>>
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>>2729654
>>2729643
>mfw Baphomet dispels 10 random buffs from me without giving me a chance to interrupt or save against it
>mfw kill him in one round anyway
>>
>>2729654
>enemy casts icy prison
>it won't go away, what the fuck
>spam greater dispel magic, nuke all my own buffs
>still can't dispel the prison effect
I do love mage's disjunction though.
>>
>>2729642
>don't play the game in an optimal way just so you can deal with the shitty real time with pause system or their cobbled-together turn system

Real time with pause is a cancer and I'm glad to see it dying.
>>
>>2729656
>>2729664
>Baphomet polymorphs Lann into a dog
>can't overcome the caster level check
>have to cast break enchantment 12 times until I roll a natural 20
>>
>>2729665
>I play the game in an optimal way
Wasting time to buff up when you think buffing up isn't necessary just means you are a retard.
It doesn't actually mean you are playing optimally. You are wasting real life time being a retard who does unnecessary things you hate to do.
>>
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>>2729665
>he's not playing turn based mode
>>
Why is Hellknight so shit?
>>
>>2729714
It's not that bad. It has Smite which is pretty strong.
>>
>>2729714
Because except for a couple class features, one tied to a specific order, you can get better shit from other martial classes.
>>
>>2729714
10 lvls max prestige class is why
>>
1 Monk
10 Dragon Disciple
Rest Sorc

How well does this work as a tank + caster?
>>
>>2729746
You lose 4 caster levels, so you lose 2 levels worth of spells, including some very good buffs.
A few are personal too (like seamantle).
You also lose spell slots in general. So caster wise, you will be kinda meh. Tank wise, you can have good ac if you take appropriate feats and you have 7 levels worth of spell buffs, but will lack some nice abilities
>>
>>2729668
>get disease early game
>buy scroll at 400 gp a pop
>have to use maybe 10 before I make a good roll

>reduced stat
>use lesse resoration
>get 1 stat each time
I hate rolling for this shit
>>
>>2729772
Guess I can limit DD to 8 levels then.
That way I would only lose 3 caster levels.
Is that too crippling?
>>
>>2729776
If you want to tank while getting relevant stat increases from DD, 4 levels are enough. Con and Int matter less, blindsense is easily replicated and you miss out on just +1 natural armor increase.
>>
>>2729509
>since if I'm reading the description correctly they do get to save against it.

It's really easy to stack intimidation in WotR, not only you use your charisma and persuasion, you can also use your strength if you pick intimidating prowess and there are items that add like +10 to your indimidation like Wirlong's black mask.

My demon barbarian would dazzling display with a DC in the 70s, way beyond anything enemy can save
>>
>>2729610
>I played single fire with double earth as azata with zippy magic and it still felt bad. You need blue flame.
Does zippy magic work with fire kinetic blade?
>>
>>2729782
It used to, got fixed
>>
>>2729773
>not using treat affliction
>>
>>2729780
I agree but I just like the idea of getting lots of ability scores on my character sheet.
>>
>>2729825
I hope that reasoning does not lead you down to gold dragon
>>
>>2729829
If I wanted Gold Dragon I would stat dump just to take advantage of the min ability score of the Mythic path.

I was intending to go Azata for this one. Lich is a much better option but I'm not going down that route for RP purposes.

I was thinking;

1 Monk Scaled Fist
1 Sorcerer
3 Loremaster
8 Dragon Disciple
7 Loremaster

I want to make a character with tons of ability scores and skill points with full casting ability that can also fight on the front lines through shape-shifting.
>>
>>2729831
so you want a mary sue?
>>
>>2729836
More like an effective character.
The only thing I'm hung up on is whether I want half elf kindred for a +4 CHA or aasimar emberkin for +2 INT&CHA along with skill points. Halfelf is more powerful but getting more INT on my character sheet is super tempting...
It's amazing that I can do all this without sacrificing any of my caster ability.
I do lose out on level 9 spells but honestly they suck anyway lol
>>
>>2729831
>I want to make a character with tons of ability scores and skill points with full casting ability that can also fight on the front lines through shape-shifting.
Why not go demon?
You get some crazy ability scores from demon forms, and major demon aspects can give you like +7 to 3 different scores at MR9 if you pick balor, coloxus and shadow demon, demonic rage could help make up for your lack of bab since you want a full caster tanking (you might still need transformation)

Shadow demon also makes you incorporeal when in demonic rage, so it's really strong (since you said you want a tank+caster) and coloxus can allow you to cast as a move action, incubus increases the DC of all spells you cast and brimorak the damage per die rolled, deskari can turn all your spell damage into unholy and areshkgal gives you a displacement enemies can't see through.
>>
>>2729831
>>2729839
Loremaster needs 3d level spells
>>
>>2729842
I know Demon is pretty good. I don't pick it mostly because of RP reasons. I would like to play a good character.

>>2729843
Oh fug. Guess I can't get the full 10 levels then. A pity.
>>
Do ranged touch attack spells (i.e. scorching ray) require precise shot to not be shit?
>>
>>2729859
Depends.
If you never shoot at enemies other guys are engaged with, you will never notice.
If you play on lower difficulties and are stacked with buffs, you will hit touch ac of 98% of enemies regardless.
I'd still advise you to take it
>>
Can I use Loremaster to get Dreadful Carnage without prerequisite feats?
>>
>>2729900
Yep
>>
>>2729859
At low level it's pretty good, you'll have to shoot into melee a lot since a lot of enemies are melee and your attack bonus will be bad enough that you'll get full advantage of the +4. At low level you also only get one ray attack per cast so missing is a 100% damage loss rather than 50% or 33%. Touch AC doesn't scale very much though so you'll get to to a point, maybe around Act 4, where 1/2 BAB characters with baseline buffs hit Touch on everything but a 1 with or without precise shot, even against most bosses.

I'd probably say if you plan to focus on rays then take it, but you can play around not having it at low level if there are other feats that you need to take.
>>
>>2729905
That's amazing.
>>
>>2729909
Loremaster is the most busted prestige there is
Too bad tabletop tweaks makes it a lot harder to qualify when taking the class (need 3 metamagic feats)
>>
>>2729914
also forgot to mention that tabletop tweaks makes Loremaster require 7 ranks in arcana and world
>>
>>2729914
What are some nice picks from it? I'm thinking magic fang for pets, dreadful carnage, creeping doom to get Swarm access. What else?
>>
>>2729917
You already named the best spell picks, especially Creeping Doom but Firestorm is a good pick on a nuker character not using Red Salamander
Divine Power could be nice on a non-divine character
>>
>>2729921
Very nice. Can't see myself giving away Salamander though. I'm too greedy for that.

I think Eaglesoul is a good pick for a martial type as the bonuses are sacred and thus will stack with a lot of stuff. Another one is Heal if you ever wanted to be an Arcane caster that could also Heal.
>>
>>2729928
Before it was fixed, Loremaster also had access to improved improved improved critical improved
>>
>>2729932
Oh too bad. Would have been nice to get that too.
>>
>>2727003
>it was well known that so-called powergaming had a place in the hobby and should be rewarded
Fuck that. Powergamers are assholes who take it way too seriously.
>>
>>2729714
Because its just a worse Paladin and/or a martial with no features or feats.
>>
>>2729781
Right, but I'd rather prefer to save those feats and have Cam use frightful aspect, which is completely passive, doesn't let enemies save against it AND functions as a general size increasing buff almost equivalent to legendary proportions.
>>
>>2729914
When did they fix it? Does that mean I can take greater command on a DC demon mage now?
>>
>>2729956
Mate, are you missing the point on purpose? I've explained it twice, it's not about fucking shaken and shatter defenses, do you understand?

THUG
T
H
U
G

AND

FEAR
E
A
R

Get it now?
>>
>>2729668
Next time someone gets baleful just kill them and rez them. Saves you tons of time.
>>
>>2729664
Remove paralysis used to work on ice prison, but I believe now only freedom of movement works to protect you from it
>>
>>2729994
Thug is bengay unless you are doing an AOO
>>
wow the threshold sucks
>>
>>2729996
Can't you just melt the ice with burning hands?
>>
>>2730011
no. that would make too much sense. we can't have that
>>
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Fucking why?
I like cavalier but I wish we had bigger map to take advantage of their charge
>>
>>2730011
Play tabletop if you want to do sensible things.
>>
>>2730029
At this point I doubt charge will ever be fully fixed
>>
>>2730029
What is there to even like about Cavalier?
You are indoors.
>>
>>2730029
charge is fucked in these games. Doesn't work half the time. i don't know why it's so fucking hard to do
>>
>>2730051
Maybe there are invisible fairies floating around that get in the way lol
>>
Is there a way to make an effective summoning build (ie more than meatshield)?
>>
>>2724920
>builds
>RP
you wat
>>
>>2730073
Not really, but I'd go for Aeon if I wanted them to ever hit anything
>>
I'm not having fun. I realized that fights are basically a buff-check. If you have the correct buffs you win, if you don't then you lose.
>>
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What's better; Spirit Hunter or Shadow Shaman?
>>
Did you ever use stealth outside of skill-checks?
>>
>>2730093
Sure, let me scout areas and disarm some traps better than expected.
There was one guy who played assassin trickster and did stealth->detah strikes mid combat
>>
>>2730076
What a shame
>>
>>2730091
Shadow shaman.
>>
>>2730091
Spirit hunter.
>>
>>2730093
I like to keep a sneaky person around for stealthing ahead, disarming traps, waiting in the sidelines to get the drop on an enemy already in combat
>>
>>2730087
So cast the correct buffs. Just write yourself a checklist of things to go through before every fight, then cast them and tick them off one-by-one. Every. Fight. It's fun. You're having fun.
>>
>>2730111
>stealthing ahead
>>2730098
>scout areas
haha, nice stealthy scout you got there. sure would be a shame if here was a cutscene that forces him out of stealth and into the middle of a mob horde
>>
I suppose it was a mistake to try and clear candlemere at lvl 6
>>
>>2730087
Just get buff bot so you don't have to cast them manually
>>
>>2730121
>he doesn't know where cutscene triggers are
heh...
>>
>>2730121
It is at least nice when I dimension door myself right in front of the ones who trigger it after my first run
>>
>>2730123
Mass resist elec and haste should be enough
>>
>>2730124
What is that?
>>
>>2730135
It's a mod that lets you configure a button to bulk cast all your buffs in one click instead of spending 5 minutes clicking through all your characters
>>
>>2730134
it's not
>>
>>2730136
Wow sounds good.
I should get it.
>>
>>2729836
ability does not make a mary sue, story does

basically it's impossible for your mc to not be one, even if you completely gimp your build
>>
>>2729996
In the PC game Freedom of Movement only stops the paralysis/entanglement, not the damage. Enjoy taking X damage per turn for X minutes.
>>
>>2730121
in kingmaker it was viable, although I'm just early doors have been finding this very annoying

it is also annoying that the only way to make stealth tolerable is a rogue talent, despite there being loads of archetypes that are supposed to be "stealthy"
>>
>>2730173
>loads
Only rogue and ranger had a stealth focus from initial classes.
Then you have shit like Ninja I guess
>>
>>2730157
I literally just spam mass heal lol
>>
>>2725228
BASED
>>
>>2726365
Nice build.
>>
>>2730191
for 9 minutes?
>>
>want to try and play unfair kingmaker
>my build gets booty blasted by thugs needing a nat 20to hit
>>
>>2730309
Stop using shit builds
>>
>>2730309
post your build
>>
Gonna play a dual wield Scimitar warpriest. Not super concerned with the min-max, only playing on daring and I've heard that warpriest is good with two-weapon fighting. Mostly in it for the RP but wanna know how good the build should perform.
>>
>>2730314
It was a level 1 monster tactican
>>2730311
I didnt want to have to go martial, but it seems nessecary since your starting companions are weak martials. I wanted to go something summoner after playing druid my first time
>>
>>2730322
what the fuck are you doing
>>
>>2730319
You do get extra feats to help with dual wielding, but it's a MAD build. You have no sneaks and you are not full Bab, so you are not getting the most out of it.
>>
>>2730327
Trying to have fun in kangmaker but also be challenged
>>
>>2730309
>>2730322
If you want to do anything but martial, you're going to have to cheese the game hard during the tutorial. Unfortunately there are fights in that tutorial you can't cheese.
>>
>>2730340
What do you mean?
>>
>>2730340
Yeah there is a fight with three bandits that I can kill 2 if I am lucky with linzi before the last one one shots my party
>>
>>2730309
Should have gone fighter 20 like a smart person.
>>
>>2730347
Human
White
Male
Short hair
Fighter (20)
Sword and Board
Now this is gaming.
>>
>>2730319
It could actually be good if you made it a shieldbasher and also didn't care about spellcasting. In which case you might as well have made a mut fighter.
>>
>>2730337
Yeah, was thinking about going kukri offhand as well.

>>2730350
I definitely went down this line of thinking already. Build's stuck in purgatory right now as some kind of Sarenrae-divine-spellcaster-martial that I'm not entirely sure what to do with.
>>
I love variety of options, but when I played Kingmaker, I was overwhelmed with too many classes & subclases & spells/traits. And most barely do anything in roleplaying sense....
And even when I played in normal, the game could be annoying with the difficculty, and the endgame was pain (All because I didnt take an skill)
And worse was how long was the game, specially with the Kingdom Management part, bloating it. I like Managing a kingdom, and I like doing it....but doing both it and RPG stuff? No way.

So I tried playing WotR before, but I just stopped anyways. Crusader Mechanic was Kingdom Management 2.0, and the game got even more bloat of classes & stuff.

Isnt the Definitive Edition of WotR coming soon? Like around October or im wrong? Maybe I will try it again when it launch, and maybe I should just go on Easy/Story mode, and take from the start mods that trim playtime (Like eliminating or making fast to play the Crusader Mechanic).
>>
What's so special about scimitars?
>>
>>2730362
Crit range I guess.
>>
>>2730362
>18-20 crit range
>martial prof
>1d6 slashing
Basically the best weapon for two weapon strength builds
>>
>>2730362
>18-20 crit range
The single most important factor in weapon choice for martials.
>easily able to get proficiency
Martial weapon, there are also two (2) backgrounds that offer proficiency with it.
>at least one good scimitar in every act
>aesthetics
>>
>>2730377
>The single most important factor in weapon choice for martials.
Only because Owlcat haven't fully implemented the entirety of Pathfinder.

For example Scimitars can't perform this
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/impaling-critical-combat-critical/
There are many reasons and uses for the other weapon types too.
>>
>>2730380
Rapiers are fine too in the crpg, it's just that with scimitars you have some slightly better options.
>>
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>Try a kinetic blade in inevitable excess
>Hit for 264 per hit with a blue fire sword targeting touch AC with 5 attackks

Umm, isn't that really strong?
>>
>>2730391
>>Umm, isn't that really strong?
Yes, yes it is.

That's also why I have been arguing it's perfectly fine to combine 10 levels of Kineticist with 10 levels of Duelist for example.
Or 10 levels of Aldori Swordlord.
Or Hellknight etc.

Even a partial Kineticist is extremely powerful.
>>
>>2730391
Can you do that with valerie in KM? I saw kinetic knight used con and she start with 19
>>
>>2730418
No idea desu, I'm using azata mythic path so I don't know if you can replicate that
>>
>install again
>full expect to replay Act 1
>my save remains
Amazing...
Do you think my save might be fucked by bugs considering it's a year old?
>>
>>2730422
Mate just restart
>>
>>2730424
I can't just restart.
These are long games!
>>
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>>2730426
bro, act 1 can be completed in a couple of hours
>>
>>2730426
The game is short when you know what you're doing and can skip all the dialog
>>
>>2730410
Kinetic Knight Shaman good combo?
>>
>>2730431
>>2730432
But I would be compelled to read it all again because I remember nothing!

>>2730410
>>2730438
Why not just go pure Kineticist?
>>
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Kineticist and magus make my brain hurt
>>
>>2730438
Maybe.

>>2730444
>Why not just go pure Kineticist?
Kineticist is pretty much guaranteed to work well with most other classes.
I would even try to combine some Vivisectionist levels if I could.
>>
>>2730391
Do you get a high level PC right off the bat in Inevitable Excess?
>>
>>2730450
There exist a Kineticist subclass that is boosted by Intelligence.

They would be extremely powerful with the Sword Saint for example.
>>
>>2730452
But if you don't go pure Kineticist then you lose out on Deadly Earth and Cloud...
>>
Could I feasibly turn Cam into a 19 lvl full arcane caster? Perhaps 18 just so she can have Evil Eye?
>>
>>2730464
Doesn't matter, you can have fun with other things too.
For example Sword Saint 9, Dark Elementalist 11 will have less crows control, but become a lot more tanky thanks to Canny Defense.
Things like Spellstrike, Perfect Strike, Critical Perfection, Lightning Draw allows you to be a killing machine on autopilot.

And you still have the good old Flame Wall to help you out in a pinch.
>>
>>2730454
You can create a lvl 20 MR 10 PC instead of importing your character (you can import your save right before the final battle.

You don't get any of the permanent buffs you can get from the main campign though, like profane gift or demongraft, also it's a bit buggy in that the "final transformation" you get from your mythic path doesn't work, meaning your character doesn't look like a demon etc.
>>
>>2730481
>having fun
cringe
>>
>>2730418
Problem is that she starts as Fighter, anon. Any type of Kineticist needs to be pure or you'll fall behind really badly
>>
>>2730495
>Any type of Kineticist needs to be pure
It's not a necessity in my opinion. Being 1D6 behind isn't the end of the world.
>>
>>2730495
>>2730500
Why would you lose 1d6?
>>
>>2730508
It doesn't matter, you get 1 fighter level in return.
>>
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>>2730500
>Being 1D6 behind
my autism would grant me an aneurism
>>
>>2730485
Ooo very nice.
Sounds like an awesome place to build characters.
Thanks!

>>2730481
I get it. I just don't see the point of giving up Deadly Earth though. DE is what makes a Kineticist tick.

It's the very soul of a Kineticist. This is why impure Kineticists and non-earth Kineticists are all 3rd rate.
>>
>>2730523
>I just don't see the point of giving up Deadly Earth though. DE is what makes a Kineticist tick.
Give up something, get something else in return. It's all a good experiment.
Some people don't like to play pure Kineticist 5 games in a row, so they can mix it up into a new combination and see what happens.
>>
>>2730528
Yea I see.
Sounds fun.
I hope you have lots of fun with that!
>>
>feat randomly stop working
Fucking hell
>>
>>2730477
Why would you want to do that?
>>
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>Major Ameliorate Blindness causing Blindness
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>>2730548
He probably already played her as a Spirit Hunter.
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>>2730548
Because I'm not putting Nenio in my party and I'd like a character in my party instead of a merc tjat doesn't have one

but also this >>2730553
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>>2730556
>imagine playing as anything but an arcane caster
*dips monk*
*laughs in grease*
>>
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>>2730558
I'm a Pharasma Sanctified Slayer my nigga
>>
>>2730556
>>2730477
Camellia already has 1 level in divine spellcaster.
So you can try to give her this:
https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Mystic+Theurge
That will give her 12 levels of Divine Spellcasting if you go for level 2 Evil eye.

Then as for the arcane side, you can give her this
https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Empyreal+Sorcerer
That will give her 18 levels of arcane spellcasting.
This also uses Wisdom modifier.
>>
>>2730556
Looks like you're forced to pick 3 levels in Spirit Hunter if you want to be a Mystic Theurge.
So you will definitely get that Evil Eye.
>>
>>2730571
>>2730577
Mystic Theurge is absolute trash though.
>>
>>2730582
You get 13 Divine spellcaster levels. and 17 Arcane spellcaster levels.
Sounds like a wonderful deal.
>>
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>>2730577
>>2730588
Oh shit sounds like she could even replace Daeran, then. Alright, imma try that out
>>
I made a druid and the Boon Companion feat is not recommended for him. Why?
>>
>>2730613
Cause you start with a pet at lv 1 and it will level with you.
Boon companion will cover multiclassing/dips
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>>2730606
It seems like you can also go with a 14 / 16 ratio.

Advantage of 17 / 13 ratio:
You get Protection from Energy + a Bloodline Feat Selection
Divine spells: 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
Arcane spells: 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
So you are capped at level 8 spells.


Advantage of 16 / 14 ratio:
You get a 2nd Hex. It could be Cackle which works well with Fortune, or Protective Luck.
Divine spells: 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
Arcane spells: 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
Still capped at level 8 spells.
>>
I think the 17 / 13 is the stronger spellcaster.
It has far more Arcane spells, so it's an advantage to have that additional casting level on the majority of the spells.
>>
>>2730613
the pet levels with you from level 1 as a druid, boon companion does nothing in that case

if you were a ranger you'd get your pet at level 4 and it would be level 1 then, but if you took boon companion it would jump up in level to be like the druid's case

only reason you'd want it on druid is if you multiclass something that doesn't have animal companion levels
>>
>>2730762
thanks
>>
I remember reading that completing DLC1 gets you bonus shit in subsequent playthroughs
Is it actually good stuff? Wondering if I should play through the DLC before the EE.
>>
>>2730410
Blue flame I think causes burn without enough levels
>>
>>2730450
Kinectic blade builds are much more simple are arguebly stronger. Kinectic knight gets blade early however the other subclasses are even better at using it then them.
>>
>>2731010
I suspect Blue flame causes burn even at level 20.

That's why I'm okay with level 10 Kineticist. I'm not greedy about damage if the other classes can give me amazing defensive abilities like Canny Defense.
>>
>>2730588
Except that character just becomes a buffbot. I guess embers hexes might give her something to do in combat but you give up her as a blaster
>>
>>2731019
>Except that character just becomes a buffbot
What about crowd control spells? Do they strictly need to have high DC?

What if you're okay with some of the spells only doing half damage?
>>
>>2731023
What spells did you have in mind to use that dont matter how awful the caster is at casting it? You will be few on feats
>>
>>2731033
Spells like Grease, Can't you just heighten them?
You can also heighten the Divine spells.

Heightening the spells is generally very compatible with the fact that you have 10 spell slots in total in divine´+ Arcane
>>
Am I thinking of a different game, or is there a mod for Kingmaker that gives you character stats like total damage dealt or how many kills they've racked up?
>>
>>2731051
What is heighten grease going to do to more the enemies being immune to trip and the other half having freedom of movement? You have a lot of ideas, but mystic theruge is not one you make a competent caster. Its your arcane/divine buffbot rolled into one to save char slot for something more exotic. Like if you were running 5 martials or something.
>>
>>2731015
You are missing out on 5d6 x 4 each round which is significant as well as its free infusions etc that provide kinectist its staying power to dip something else for more defense. If you are doing roleplay thats okay, but if you are approaching as a game as most do, kinectist is best pure with 1pt dip.
>>
>>2731160
That's true. It's always a good idea to experience a pure Kineticist, But after that it's also a fine idea to experiment with other prestige class combinations.
>>
>>2731160
>>2731161
Do only fire or earth Kineticists work?
>>
>>2731191
almost anything can work with ascended element :D
i wouldn't do split damage infusions like steam or magma though
>>
>>2731195
Really? I thought Composite blasts were the main attraction.
>>
>>2731199
oh they are, just not for mixed elements most of the time. for example if you go blue flame(pure fire damage) you only have to bypass fire resistance(which is very easy with ascended element) but with a mixed element like magma you would have to go through damage resistance AND fire resistance. of course unless you're playing on some crazy difficulty you can do whatever, but going for a pure element infusion has the most consistent results. personally i would go either pure physical or pure energy composites, but i would not mix them desu
>>
>>2731205
Oh fug. Can't I just use Symbol of Iomedae or something to bypass DR along with Ascended Element?

Otherwise, I can only use Deadly Earth with Metal.
>>
>>2731216
sounds good, go for it. all that's important is that you have fun and enjoy what you're doing
>>
>want to focus on conjuration
>if you pick spell focus Conjuration you are fucked because you are supposed to pick anything but conjuration and then expanded arsenal
I hate this shit
>>
>>2731231
But I enjoy what I do more if I get bigger numbers.
>>
>>2731260
Isn't Grease Conjuration?
How can you go wrong with Spell Focus on that?
>>
>>2731287
If you pick SF and GSF Conjuration you end up with +2DC. But if you pick other schools and then pick expanded arsenal conjuration you can end up with something like +10DC. If you pick spell focus conjuration and then expanded arsenal conjuration then you end up with measly +2DC again
>>
>>2731276
then do what you will, metal is good because it's purely physical. like you said symbol of Iomedae and ascended element will take care of anything
>>
>>2731290
How does that work?
I don't get it.

>>2731294
Thanks!
>>
>>2731304
School Focus gives +1DC for all spells in chosen school.
Greater School Focus works the same way.
Expanded Arsenal adds up all School Focus bonuses from all different schools and slaps them on chosen School BUT you cannot have School Focus for that School.
So for example I have SF and GSF for illusion, necro and evocation. If I pick Expanded Arsenal Conjuration I end up with +6DC for conjuration. But if I pick Expanded Arsenal evocation then nothing changes.
>>
>>2731310
Wow.
Is that working as intended?
Sounds like a bug. Still pretty amazing.
>>
>>2731310
sounds like a bug desu. The way I understood the wording it wasn't supposed to add up all those school foci, but give a flat +2 to dc to a chosen school granted you have sf and gsf for some other school
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>>2731310
>BUT you cannot have School Focus for that School.
Really?

pretty sure it works if you have focus in that school as well. At least it did before.
>>
>>2731310
What the fuck dude. This completely changes how I'm going to build nenio.
>>
>>2731304
>I don't get it.
it's "bugged" (read: slavcode)
>>
>>2731191
For melee? Essentially yes because of how infusions and wild talents. The only attractive ones to the blade are those two elements.
>>2731205
Pure physical doesnt get enough bonuses to actually hit true ac on higher difficulties. Energy targets touch AC which is nice.
>>2731216
Caster kinectist is a bit different, you go water earth fire for it.
>>
>>2731473
Why Water Earth Fire?
>>
>Plasma blast
>Counts as physical
>Plasma
>Physical

Is owlcat retarded?
>>
>>2731537
well, it's not magic
>>
>>2731537
let's go ask a plasma physicist about that, see what they think

also paizo made kineticist, not owlcat
>>
>>2731680
Kineticist should be a class about exerting Kinetic Force with one's mind.
What was wrong with Elementalist for an element wielder?
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>>2731698
they are, they're exerting kinetic force to create pyrokinesis and geokinesis and shit
>>
>>2731480
Water because some of the early wild talents/infusions. Earth for mud to do deadly earth and finally fire for steam.
>>
>>2730391
Now invest in the two weapon fighting chain and combat reflexes :)
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>>2731771
What the fuck are you doing
>>
>>2731873
Dual wield with your kinetic blade and a physical light weapon. The physical weapon also lets you use combat reflexes.
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>>2732001
What do you get out of investing that many feats? You end up falling over at a stiff wind.
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>>2732048
Not him but, you can actually get the entire 2 handed skilltree for cheap if you have like 10 Slayer levels.
>>
>>2732050
And lose out on 5d6 of damage per hit as well as all infusions/wild talents.
>>
I thought kineticist can't AoO

Would I be able to shield bash AoO with a kineticist then?
>>
>>2732056
How many times are you going to play the same class over and over and over again?
>>
How do you make Kinetic Knight work
>>
>>2732265
I like to pick lightning to get Touch AC attack and Enveloping Winds + Haste + Aerial Evasion.
Then I pick Ice to get a secondary element with Touch AC, and get Shroud of Water.
>>
>>2732265
be sad for a long time you won't get the best parts of kineticist, question your gamerlife choices
>>
>>2732280
>Then I pick Ice to get a secondary element with Touch AC
why is this a good thing, you could have went water and had a much stronger attack through electrified water
>>
>>2732422
Water doesn't have Touch AC
Ice can circumvent Lightning resistance/immunity.

Later on I would pick Earth as my 3rd element because that one has Damage Reduction.
And Earth can bypass spell resistance and provide composites.
>>
Dang, looks like Earth can't really composite with Ice and Lightning.

But it can composite with Fire though. That's strange.
>>
>>2732426
touch is kind of a meme in the first place, but that's not even the discussion here since you already have touch and you don't need two types of touch ac since they achieve exactly the same thing, it's better to have a harder hitting option for targets that don't have a lower touch ac than normal ac

every element can circumvent its resistance and immunity, and it's a lot cheaper to do it for just one element too, since you spend only one mythic ability on it

>>2732435
what, magma? worst earth composite desu

the best ones are metal, sand, and mud in that order

i would tolerate magma for the sake of also having steam in the same build i guess
>>
>>2732436
Metal means you either lose Water Shroud or Enveloping wind.

I would take the 3 defensive abilities over the ability to composite. And just stick to Touch AC without composite.
It just saves more burns that way.
>>
>>2732440
why would you deliberately gimp yourself like that, you're doing less than half the damage of a normal composite user

you do know burn stops being a problem as you level up right
>>
>>2732441
I remember I once tried to get to level 20. But the composite blades would still require a burn.
>>
>>2732048
Not sure what you're on about. That build rapes everything
>>
Want to give the game another go again but dont know what to roll. Is there some post id sheet that I can use for the base things like race/alignment/class type?
>>
>>2726694
>Oracle is slightly better for martial builds because of battle mystery.
lolno. Crusader Clerics get weapon specialization AND more feats (and this is taking into account the bonus feats from battle oracle). You also get +20 to your attack with touch of madness + guarded hearth for bosses. Next patch it'll be +30 to attack because Owlcat is changing guarded hearth to stack with touch of good too.
>>
>>2726735
It's NOT a nerf. It's a BUFF. It's changing it to a competence bonus, so it now STACKS with touch of good on top of touch of madness.
You can now STACK 30+ attack with a Cleric.
>>
>>2728865
Why choose when you can be immune to everything? Protection from energy stacks, so just cast it 5x times for each element
>>
>>2729021
Demon + Wizard is the strongest. Your spell DC gets so high, that you can onehit kill everything with weird / phantasmal killer on unfair
>>
>>2729521
Paladin. Smite Chaos and Smite Evil stack.
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>>2730372
>Basically the best weapon for two weapon strength builds
nope. Falchions and Fauchards are better
>>
How viable is a Sorcerer Monk Dragon Disciple shape-shifter build?
What are the shape-shifting must haves?
I think you absolutely need Master Shapeshifter and Mythic Natural Attacks right?
What about spells?



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