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Casual gamers complaining about min maxing needs of games such as Pathfinder: Kingmaker need to be SHOT ON SIGHT

Before some of you start seething, let me elaborate.
When a casual 4ching & reddit gamer beats The Witcher 3 on the hardest difficulty, he gets a sense of accomplishment, he feels like he's good at video games and that provides him with a sense of validation that he likely can't experience elsewhere. He becomes delusional thinking that he's actually good at video games. Lmao. Kek even.
So once he gets into a game like afore mentioned Pathfinder: Kingmaker, he
>sets the difficulty to challenging or unfair
>gets absolutely mouled
>complains about it being challenging and unfair on reddit, 4cheng even
>contaminates otherwise good threads etc...
>calls knowledgeable gamers munchkins and what not...

In PF:K example, the game was developed for both casual gaymers and purists alike.
>You do NOT need to be good at the game to beat it
>You CAN choose story mode / easy / normal difficulties for chill runs that will beat the game on any build
>You NEED to be good at the game to beat it on higher difficulties. Read that two or three times.
>You do NOT get to set the difficulty to turbohard inferno nightmare mode and beat it like you beat The Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty and whatever people play these days

GIT GUD OR BTFO
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>>2722915
Some of it is pretty egregious. The standard table top difficulty is about one or two steps higher than normal, and you're getting a full party of 6, not just 4 characters.The worst part is that you can build in many ways to succeed, even on cruel difficulty, unlike some games where you pretty much need one or two things always.
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>>2722920
I think it's pretty reasonable to expect ridiculous difficulty on something like... Unfair (In any game, in general)

I think that it's okay if the game is barely beatable on such a setting, it's also fine if that requires some completely weird counter intuitive strategies to accomplish

The problem are people who feel like they are ENTITLED to the ability to beat the game on the hardest difficulties with surface level knowledge of it. That entitledness really pisses me off. Spoiled fucking zoomers & millenials almost always.
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Difficulty in PFK is just right. I finished it on normal, now trying challenging. I think that only the most dedicated autists should be able to finish game at the highest difficulty, even if I don't wish to do so.
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>>2722928
100%
Hard and challenging in PF:K are not that hard. They require some knowledge but I'd say you should be able to do it after your first normal run. Good luck. (I've never finished it on unfair myself. I'm not that good)
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>>2722915
>autistic sperg throws shitfit over dumb shit
>is a pathfinder drone
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>>2722935
He's just some guy that got btfo'd in the previous Pathfinder thread so now he's making a post to cope and seethe.
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>>2722935
First of all, kill yourself.
Second of all, I used Pathfinder just as an example. I never said it was good.

And last but not least, fucking kill yourself you 65IQ mongrel.
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>>2722940
Show me where my words hurt you
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>>2722944
They don't. I just find it funny that you had to make an entire thread because some guy called you a min/max munchkin
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>>2722941
>drone continues to throw autistic shitfits because he's desperate for attention
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>>2722915
Kids try to get validation from the "challenge" of video games to offset their lack of values. Your post falls on ears deafened by silence.
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>>2722915
>so mad and insecure about being told the truth about the Pathfindersystem he creates another thread due to shee buttdevastation
Holy autism batman
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>>2722960
you wish you were the only retard who speaks about things he doesn't understand. Ive seen many of you through out the years

>>2723026
I'm not. I never even claimed to be a min maxxer myself. You strawman falls apart right there
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>>2723069
>you wish you were the only retard who speaks about things he doesn't understand
Such as? I never made any comments about min/maxing or difficulty. I just found it funny how buttmad you are because couple of anons called you out in the previous thread. But keep sperging out I guess.
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>>2722915
tl;dr

And anyways, 3rd edition and its derivatives are for people too dumb to play AD&D, so you're a filtered pleb who plays cuck videogames.
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>>2722915
Up to Core difficulty, the game can be beaten with RP-compatible builds, so I have no idea what people are complaining about. Only if you play at a higher difficulty level than Core you'll have to look into retarded builds, bug abuse, etc.
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>>2722915
All your rage is missing the vital point
Pathfinder is just not a very good game
There are just little reasons to play pathfinder
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What a brainlet OP. Pathfinder: Kingmaker got complaints about it's difficulty because said difficulty was massively different than the tabletop (which people were expecting it to be faithful to like Baldurs Gate)

Rather than implementing challenging game design or interesting encounters, Owlcat instead decided to just give every enemy obscene stat bloat. This was how you got level 2 goblins with 26 dex and 19 AC on launch on normal difficulty, among other egregious examples of artificial difficulty. This was how the Kingdom Management when played on normal difficulty literally became a coin flip if you would lose or win the game due to insane event DCs.

Stop licking a devs feet and defending poor game design. The simple fact that they abandoned or heavily modify most of the aftermentioned design in their next game says everything you need to know.
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>>2723137
>tl;dr
Only retards cry about games being difficult when you play on the highest difficulty.
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>>2723271
>Pathfinder is just not a very good game
This
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>>2722926
I agree with you 90% except your critique casting the blame on zoomers and millenials. Not because they're not at fault, but because you're complaint is about 5-35 year olds in the realm of video games.
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>>2724519
Only retards cry about games. And you're crying about other people opinions about video games, which makes you both autistic and retarded.

Glad we agree.
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>>2722915
Autists hated OP because he was right.
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>>2724668
He says, crying about someone crying about someone crying. It's retards all the way down.
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>>2724668
Wasn't OP, just giving the tl;dr of what it seems they meant. But yes, being mad on the internet is something only retards do. Glad doing business with you.
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>>2722915
>>You NEED to be good at the game to beat it on higher difficulties
Brap cloud says otherwise
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>>2724754
Isn't that what internet is for? Getting mad at anons for stupid reasons?
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>>2724668
Literally the only reason this thread even exists
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>>2724760
lol, so someone was upset they can't beat a game on hard difficulty without looking shit up and then they assume everyone else has to look it up themselves? Now that is autism, they have a limited Theory of Mind which prohibits them to understand that other people aren't them and could arrive at conclusions that they cannot.
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>>2724758
No it's for pretending to be mad at stupid anons, and also to pretend to be dumb to get other anons to get legit mad at you. Big difference.
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>>2724774
And this was the comment that instigated the entire thing. It's still up if you want to see the entire shitshow.
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>>2722935
>it's funny because it's true
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I have no idea who's baiting who at this point.
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>>2722915
Fair statements all around, repetitive wage earners are good with their hands so they consider a deeper RPG game that you have to think up builds, tactics, party management, and kingdom management strategy to be good at inferior to something like Elden Ring where you're just basically making different flavors of burritos and counting out change on bosses all day.

It's also why they like more simplified combat and builds like POE better even within this category.
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Is it possible to make a caster druid build, or are druids for the furry fucking shits?
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>>2724774
>lol, so someone was upset they can't beat a game on hard difficulty without looking shit up and then they assume everyone else has to look it up themselves?
Thats quite the amount of reaching to reach this conclusion.
Are you projecting or are you just a seething Pathautist?
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is goblin a playable race in the tabletop?
just wondering since we have Nok-Nok in this game
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>>2725545
This isn't reaching at all, this is the content of the post. I think you have poor reading comprehension, probably self-induced myopia from your penchant for pathetic developer war slapfights.
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>>2722928
the difficulty is just right on Normal for chapter one, but then it gets easier and easier
i would say past mid point Hard is ideal to play on, which is why I play on Hard even for chapter one (which is a ball buster actually) because it feels wierd to artificially up the difficulty mid game
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>>2726041
there is a nexusmod that adds goblin as a playable race
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Yes yes but
>Difficulty settings are just fixing enemy dices and bloating their stats so you have random lvl 2 spiders with stats higher than level 20 elder gods according to the source material
I will not play your game
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>>2726050
>This isn't reaching at all, this is the content of the post.
Really? Where did he say that he was looking shit up?
In the post he accuses the other dude of doing that.

> I think you have poor reading comprehension, probably self-induced myopia from your penchant for pathetic developer war slapfights.
I think you are so far gone that you cannot even tell when you projecting your own insecurities onto others.

No Idea why you are are so defensive about it.
Do you also get your builds from the internet? Is that it?
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>>2726091
That is how difficulty in D&D works, yes, since it's just a braindead pseudo-wargame
Typically DMs will try to make things harder by "having the enemies fight smart" but they're breaking the rules and should not be trusted for tournament play
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>>2722915
>make pathfinder game
>modify every creature to not have correct stats
>wonder why people feel the need to min/max
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>>2724791
The most amusing part is RPGs have a long history of being pathetically easy.
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>>2722926
>I think that it's okay if the game is barely beatable on such a setting
Here's how (IMO) that differs vs regular "hard" games like Dark Souls. In Kingmaker, there is a high degree of skill required: You absolutely need your placing, composition, equipment, you need to competently level up 6 characters at the same time while also developing your side characters to fill in the gaps -- almost like deckbuilding within deckbuilding. But then when you're actually on the field, you still need to contest against RNG.

You can be stuck in a situation where the enemy AC is just too high and either of you can only hit the other on a critical. You can be ambushed by swarm enemies and have no way to fight back (especially early on). Rolls can cause you to win a fight effortlessly on one attempt, but then you're steamrolled when you reload the save. You might not roll well on your perception and miss the secret room you know is there because your other character with the same stats already went there.

PFK has complexity for complexity's sake. And that's before you factor in the actual kingdom management, which in some cases literally comes down to "Roll DC 14. If you fail, your kingdom perishes and you lose the entire game."
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>>2724749
If anything autismos agree with OP.
It's the normies who hate him.
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>>2727453
I always feel the need to min-max.
If you build your character from an RP perspective, you fucking disgust me to my very core.
Optimization, yes. Power, yes. Number crunching, you betcha.
All of these are things you should pursue for their own sake.
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>>2722915
>You do NOT need to be good at the game to beat it
>You do NOT need to set the difficulty to turbohard inferno nightmare mode
>In fact you do NOT need to play the game at all because there are much better crpgs released in 2010s alone
fixed your wording a bit but otherwise I completely agree with you OP
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>>2727555
>minmaxing is an easy and simple game instead of playing what you find cool
Stick to video games. Not that you have the option to actually play tabletop.
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>>2727555
To bad no PnP ruleset is built for this, however.
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>>2727555
>If you build your character from an RP perspective, you fucking disgust me to my very core.
Good! I aim to please!
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>>2727644
Ironically 3rd edition was made to make idiots feel smart. And then PF doubled down on that.
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>>2727711
That's what the idiot designers said to cover their asses for their incompetence. Monte Cooke=hack, WoTC=hacks frauds, card designers can't make a tabletop game for shit.
>>
ok: mechanical competence requirements
enjoyed: tactical competence requirements
hated: shit design like micromanaging n +1 types to get your +4.
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>>2727729
Because people, ultimately, don't really care. They want a bare bones set of rules that mostly work and then they house rule everything else anyway.
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>>2722915
>he (OP) feels like he's good at video games and that provides him with a sense of validation that he likely can't experience elsewhere. He becomes delusional thinking that he's actually good at video games.
lol. look i'm sure the monk dip build you totally didnt look up online works great but PF:K is not hard and you do not need to be good at it or games in general to beat it.
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>>2727644
>To bad no PnP ruleset is built for this, however.
Except thats literally Pathfinder.
>>
The only actual issue is all the internet guides for building your character being dumb and wrong and putting way too much emphasis on AC, at the expense of actual character efficiency.
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>>2728325
It is pathetically easy to break pathfinder and encounters by raw are vastly easier than KM/WOTR
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>>2722915
yeah who cares about making the game good just spam dozens of samey rooms with billions of wild hunt fuckers and ghosts so it's LE HARD
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>>2722915
>game is super easy even on harder difficulties if you understand pathfinder system
>game is super difficult if you don't
>tfw struggled even on normal
Had to lower the difficulty down to easy probably 4-5 times throughout the game, otherwise I never would have gotten through certain parts of the game (Playful Darkness, Blackwater, that dragon near the end of Act 4, etc.)
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>>2727555
>>2727665

I tend to RP up some idea that's cool and doesn't have a lot of overlap with the companions including rebuilding them along the lines of their themes from level 1 to make room for whatever I want to do with the MC.

Then I min/max the MC the fuck up within the confines of that RP idea for the theme of him and the kind of party I want to run. I optimize the companions but don't always squeeze every drop of minmax out of them, just make sure they're good, usually much better than the devs made in theme and mechanics. My optimizations beat out a lot of people's minmaxing since I usually layer on a bunch of synergies with the party.
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>>2722915
The mistake in your assessment is that you need to munchkin to beat the game on harder difficulties. There are tiers of powergaming that you can cripple yourself with. When you transcend these crutches, you have truly mastered the game.

>Weakest Tier: Minmaxing, taking 7's in "dump stats."
>Weak Tier: Dipping, taking single levels of overpowered classes to fill in the gaps of your skill.
>Low Tier: Mercenaries, taking overpowered nontalking NPCs to compensate for your inability to work with the tools of the existing NPCs.
>Below Average Tier: Looking up advice online for encounters. Examine the monster, see his weaknesses, develop your own strategies.

When you can defeat these four crutches of weak gamerism, there is no encounter you cannot overcome.
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>>2722915
>YOU MUST ENJOY BUFFING 5 MINUTES EVERY ENCOUNTER CAUSE I SAID SO OR YOU'RE BAD!
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>>2723256
>Up to Core difficulty
After level 5, the minmaxing really doesn't matter as much on hard/unfair. Minmaxing is more necessary earlier because you have to do it to stay alive whereas you should be getting a surplus of abilities to cc and buff later that eventually start to reduce the need for that extra +1 to your attack bonus, DC, etc. That being said, you don't have to minmax anywhere to the degree you do in hard as you need to in unfair... if you play a straight forward martial build like a monk or fighter that starts out with plenty of AB and AC.
>Only if you play at a higher difficulty level than Core you'll have to look into retarded builds, bug abuse, etc.
If you play sensibly on hard, you can beat it without exploits.. as a martial. Exploits and such are only needed on unfair or if you want to play a wizard on hard during the tutorial section.
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>>2722926
>Spoiled fucking zoomers & millenials almost always.
yeah, because everyone older than that doesn't even play video games, lmao
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>>2722931
unfair isn't really about being good compared to challenging and hard, it's about being autistic enough to constantly buff and reload a lot
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>>2722915
>>You NEED to be good at the game to beat it on higher difficulties.
No, you do not. You need a good build. A character build is a difficulty setting in and of itself, being a powergaming faggot means you're playing on easy mode no matter how you inflate enemy stats.
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>>2722915
>Vidya munchkins enjoying games such as Pathfinder: Kingmaker that change the rules just for min/maxing need to be SHOT ON SIGHT
FTFY
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Going for a kingmaker run. Eldritch scion or sorcerer? (Don't knoe about seprd saint). I was thinking about str based for the scion (scimitar or even bastard sword) and I'm conflicted about sage sorcerer or undeath bloodline.
For reference, first time i finished kingmaker with a swordlord (a snoozefest) and I recently finished wotr with an arcane bloodrager. What would you suggest playing?
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>>2733035
>(Don't knoe about seprd saint).
Don't know about sword saint*. I'd prefer a charisma character (sage sorcerer is an exception because skill points galore)
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>>2727493
>Here's how (IMO) that differs vs regular "hard" games like Dark Souls
CRPGs require metagaming to beat it on hardest difficulties. That's it
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>>2732831
There's no way you are actually this fucking stupid like, how do you even insult someone who says such gibberish
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>>2722915
CRPG's were never good, fact. They're made for souless drones stuck chasing the high of nostalgia. Also, you're gay if you read this.
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>>2732833
Based
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>>2722915
Witcher 1 on hard is the perfect amount of difficulty, not too easy but completely doable blind, it just forces you to engage with the game and be a "Witcher"
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Any tips for a new starter in Kingmaker? I've played a lot of crpgs but always heard the Pathfinder games are easy to fuck your playthrough on
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Kingmaker only has a reputation as a difficult game because retards keep making class cocktails thinking that they are min/maxing their characters when in reality they are just making them shit. Picking Monk for everything to add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to your AC is absolutely trash when you are losing, for example, and entire caster level of spell efficiency. Wonder how many didn't even have Wis above 10. Most of these people have no idea how the rules work.
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>>2738716
if you're a crpg veteran hen you won't have problems. You can only fuck up yourbuild, but that's no longer a problem since they've included a respec option
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How well does the Druid and its summons scale in Wrath of the Righteous? Druid is my favorite class archetype / flavor but I'm always wary of its implementation in cRPGs as it always tends to get shafted.
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>>2738725
monk dip is for martials not casters. 20 levels in fighter is useless, by the end game I was just getting useless feats after all the good ones were taken
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>>2738752
I wouldn't call myself good at them but I've played a lot, did PoE 1+2 on veteran without too much trouble, BG1+2 on core rules but died a lot in 2.
I heard the kingdom management is a bit fucked, which is a shame because it sounds like a cool edition - most people recommend doing it on easy or very easy - is normal that much of a step up? Was probably going to do the rest of the game on normal probably
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>>2738792
Thanks for stating the obvious? I'm just making a critique on the general cluelessness of players who spend too many hours agonizing over builds while not understanding the basic mechanics. It's tiresome to read discussions of these games when so many people who don't understand what they are doing are making so much noise, and then it gets heard by other people who don't know better and then they repeat the mistakes. Eventually this leads to the false image that Pathfinder is more hardcore than it actually is.

In many cases there is no point in multiclassing anyway since there is some kind of hybrid class that does the heavy lifting for you.

There are neat tricks you can do with multiclassing but in most cases it is actually not the most optimal way to play the game. And in many cases it is actively harmful because players are making uninformed choices, as I mentioned already.

>>2738797
People recommend you do it on easy because it is poorly implemented and you're better off engaging with it as little as possible, which means that you turn it down to easy. You might end up being one of the few people who do enjoy it, but most people will just want to get it over with asap.
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>>2738797
>I heard the kingdom management is a bit fucked
I don't know what they mean by fucked, desu. I did it normally and enjoyed it a lot
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So that little shit Kassil went and died on me. wtf do i do with the general position now? the other two fucks would be fucking terrible at it
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>>2738856
Haven't played it yet, so don't know the mechanics - apparently there are some events that trigger with no warning that if you get caught off guard with, it can fuck a playthrough - sounds like you basically just need to maintain a reasonable cash reserve
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>>2738867
>some events that trigger with no warning
i can't tink of any such events. yes, events are triggered without any warning, but you are always given more than enough time to react to them.
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>>2738859
companion advisors are better because you can just pump up their stat that affects event dice rolls, str in that case
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>>2738872
it's not about stats. about putting two chaotic neutral retards with borderline negative fucking intelligence and wisdom in charge of your army
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>>2738716
Don't play retarded difficulties that only add stat bloat.
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>>2722915
You would have a point if the game had a decent way of previewing future possible builds. You don't get to see a possible skill tree in this game, meaning unless you are consulting the internet or on your 3rd playthrough it's impossible to have a proper pre-planned build. Then at lvl 20 you all of a sudden get a stun skillcheck out of nowhere.

Game difficulty would be fine if you had access to that kind of information ahead of time, as it is, only way to beat it on hard is to either be a turbo-autist and memorize every encounter before you build a character, or just download a build from the internet which is also stupid
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>>2738875
doesn't matter, only 1 stat influences your event rolls
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>>2738883
>You don't get to see a possible skill tree in this game
It's literally all there from the new character creation screen before the new game engine even loads, what are you talking about?

You can mouse over every class ability and skill to the right and get popups, and as long as you uncheck "pre-reqs required" view you can see every feat and their pre-reqs in the trees up to max level.

Same for race based abilities etc. Every element of character planning is there except for the gear you might get which is sort of a spoiler anyway.
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>>2738926
>no, i'm NOT gonna role-play in a role-playing game and only watch the numbers go brrrrr
whatever, mang
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>>2738931
the alignment does not affect their actions since you're the guy taking the decisions, which are mostly related to having a mage army vs normal army so it's irrelevant if they're lawful or not compared to the other advisors
>>
>take blind fight to be immune to gaze attacks
>still take ability damage from defaced sisters gaze attacks
thank you, owlkeks, very nice



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