A lot of people seem to think movement makes things automatically better
>>2658828grid based gameplay is always superior to niggers in a row but without a mouse and keyboard the grid movement can add several extra hours to a playthrough. Basically consoles need to fucking die already so JRPGs can be good
>>2658875Why is it better?
>>2658828old Tactics Ogre is better in gameplay than PSP remake
>>2658828How come every tactical game is on an angle
>>2658898Without the angle they start looking like 80s Ultima
That may be the case.
>>2658900What about X-COM? Or Fire Emblem?
Movement adds a layer on top of stats and abilities but isn't an end-all improvement that will automatically make a game with poor RPG mechanics good
>>2658903Xcom was at an angle
Any subhuman who thinks "X MECHANIC MAKES A GAME BETTER BY VIRTUE OF BEING THERE" needs to be garroted
>>2658915This thread was better by virtue of you not being here.
>>2658928cry about it
>>2658828they're better at being tactical, yes. Does that make them inherently better overall? That's up to you and your preferences.
>>2658828There is no such thing as "tactical RPG", those are strategy games, not RPGs.
>>2658828Less budget spent on designing towns and dungeons means more focus on mechanics and story.Tactics Ogre's story is still one of my top three to this day. Matsuno was willing to go places most writers are too chickenshit (or too tied down by their bosses) to go. The choice in Chapter 1 still haunts me to this day, but knowing that the people in real life faced with that choice went the path of Law is what's really fucked up.
>>2658828Unless it's a very shitty design with lazy content, it's virtually always deeper and facilitates for a much greater range of interesting classes, abilities, and scenarios. Movement speed matters, various attack ranges matter, AoE's have a distinct shape and range (cones, lines, circles, and so on). You have environmental obstacles like cliffs and walls, or hazards like lava pits.The downside tends to be that battles are often long and involved. This can be true even if the battles aren't hard. You'll find retards who over-grind claiming that there's no meaningful tactics other than walking up to the enemy to attack. From their view, the tactical elements are only getting in the way of the gameplay (which for them is just numbers going up).The battle system also may clash with exploration and dungeon crawling, making the pacing a bit awkward where you might be in the midst of trying to sort out a puzzle or a maze and are then interrupted by a random battle which takes your full attention for 15 minutes, then afterward you have to try and remember what you were doing in the dungeon before being interrupted.
>>2658953ESL poster strikes again.
>>2658898It's important for a 3D game in order to see the third dimension. 2D tactical games don't need to be angled (but may for aesthetic reasons anyway, eg to give a 3D feel)
>>2659334I kind of wish there were more RPGs that added positioning without going full tactical, like Darkest Dungeon
>>2658828Play the Luminous Arc series and come back and so you can apologize for ever making such a retarded post.
the problem with them is that even easy battles take 30 minutes to clear, but that's only a problem if there is no retreat option (which the original FFT and TO don't have)
>>2658828Usually.Not always, but usually.More stuff to fiddle with, usually more incentive to use more utility or moderate abilities instead of spamming your current best, can allow enemies to be much stronger because you can count on the player playing smarter.But done lazily it's just normal JRPG combat but slower.
>>2658828No, it's a matter of preference.
>>2658880Positioning creates another layer of strategy. It is superior to games where everyone stands in a row, runs to the enemy and hits, after which they return to their previous position.
>>2660385All it does is add an unnecessary step because face it, you're always going to be hitting the fag's backside or one-shotting them anyways. In the case of Tactics Ogre, characters like Canopus and archers almost negate the challenges of movement entirely. I love TO but you need to go further with the idea.
>>2660389It is not unnecessary. It allows you to actually defend your archers and mages instead of putting them in the front line. It makes traps useful and allows for tactics like obtaining high ground or holding chokepoints. As long as the maps are good, the skirmishes are not as samey as for example in Persona or Bravely Default.There might be skills that have a high range but low damage or vice versa which would not work in FF7. It makes AoE difficult but fun to use or spells that lower the enemy's reach/speed have an impact.All of those are also the reasons why I never liked the combat in RPG maker games.
>>2658959>knowing that the people in real life faced with that choice went the path of Law is what's really fucked up.Ravness pussy though.
>>2658828Dofus is one of the best iteration of that kind of gameplay, it uses movements very well and it's the most important part of combat.
>>2658828Man I'm playing triangle strategy and I fucking wish the training mode had an autobattle so fucking badLike I remember actually having a lot of fun in the simulator in Front Mission 3 but I fucking hate it in TS because it just fucking sucks, I don't even know why the game has level ups at all
>>2660389Grind2win faggot spotted.You are not eligible to comment on combat mechanics.
>>2660389Shut the fuck up.
I wish there were more non fantasy SRPG, it gets kinda boring the the samey vauge medieval fantasy worlds, that sometimes has firearms.
>>2660664I think as you leave fantasy you also tend to leave the adventure-style (RPG) game structure, often in favor of something more military and mission-oriented. Too much of that and you start losing the RPG feel.
>>2658828What Cold Steel doing is pretty cool
>>2658828Not really. It tends to be way too slow and the positioning aspect is always the most shallow shit that boils down to awkward position of units or just hackign people in the butt.All of these SPRG being the same grid based shit that has barely changed since the 90s jut boggles the mind.
>>2658828It doesn't have to be as in-depth as a full on tactics RPG since that's an entirely different type of game and slows things down a lot compared to traditional turn-based JRPGs, but I would seriously love to see more JRPGs where positioning actually matters.
>>2660866They exist, but tend to be more niche.
>>2660861>just hackign people in the butt.when it's done well, usually there are tradeoffs to consider when trying to access an enemy's rear or flank. (most obviously, whether you expose your own in the process)
>>2660881It's terrible and any game that plays like FFT and the like demonstrates this.For example, if you attack someone in the back, on their turn they will circle around and attack you in the back. This is just dumb.Lots of equally dumb scenarios can happen with systems like this.Facing does not work well in these types of games. Nor is it ever interesting or deep.
>>2658828I don't think either style is inherently better, it completely depends on the execution.The reason why I'm not really into SRPGs is that they usually don't have any exploration, which is something I play RPGs for
>>2660897There are games that implement it the way you speak like Triangle Strategy but it is a problem easy to fix, for example attacks of opportunity would prevent this.
>>2660866I think something like Live-a-Live hits a nice balance where positioning and enemy placement matters but the play field is so small that fights are still pretty short
>>2660910That would just make it more clunky. thsoe games already have issues with things like tight quarters.Facing just makes things messier, not better, in turn based games. It works better when the position matters, but not the facing.
>>2660897Proper games use zones of control or similar mechanics that ensure you can't just endlessly run around enemy units.FFT, despite its strengths, is at its core a poorly designed mess and not a proper game.
>>2660916Yes I know some games use it, but too many SRPG use FFT as the foundation.Either way, grids is not a good system for facing mechanics.But facing rarely works well and is almost always shallow.
>>2660920Some SRPG just treat flanking as as adjacency thing where if two units are engaged with one, the unit is flanked, I don't see why you need a fixation on the facing being key in flanking, there's various ways to mechanically implement stuff like this.
>>2660776I don't think that's always the case. Banner of the Maid managed to pull of an SRPG in revolutionary France, and fundamentally units were mostly the same as every SRPG, heavy infantry, light inf, range units, calv and what not, but it still sold the concept of early modern warfare in an SRPG box.
>>2658915You mispelled carotid, and I never heard someone saying "carotided" or however you mean it... like puncturing the carotid artery right?
>>2659346Iratus Lord of The Dead copied Darkest Dungeon if you want to try another game with the same mechanics, with some different elements added.I'd like to see more of this too. Turn-based combat is good when there are added elements that make you have to stop and think or plan.The old turn-based JRPGs did okay when you had to deal with resource management and having no easy way to save prior to reaching the boss in any given dungeon. This made you optimize your journey through a labyrinth so you could still reach the end AND take out the boss.The whole ability to save-state with emulation completely removes the need for this foresight and planning.
>>2660936Because "flanking" has nothing to do with facing mechanics. Which is how it works in most SRPGs.Calling something "flanking" when someone is simpy attacked by 2 enemies doesn't make it a "flank" attack.If a game called a backstab/back attack "flank attack", that wouldn't actually make it a "flank" since a flank is the sides of something, not the back.
>>2660920Name an alternative that has worked or shown promise, or propose something more elaborate. I ask to challenge you, and also because I'm curious, because nothing springs to mind but I'm not very creative.
>>2660936> there's various ways to mechanically implement stuff like this.What games do this? How could they improve on it?
>>2660776>I think as you leave fantasy you also tend to leave the adventure-style (RPG) game structure, often in favor of something more military and mission-oriented. Too much of that and you start losing the RPG feel.yeah no, adventure and space still works.
>>2660983In what? Grids? I'm saying that facing doesn't work well with a grid system. Facing in general never works well and tends to be awkward and shallow.Positioning tends to add interest and depth, not facing.
>>2658828nope, I don't want to be wasting 15+ minutes per encounter
>>2660897>For example, if you attack someone in the back, on their turn they will circle around and attack you in the back. This is just dumb.No, you are dumb and don't understand the game.Movement isn't free. You can only move once on your turn, and choosing not to move grants a CT bonus (your next turn will come up sooner). You also may give up existing positional advantage (in other words: you expose your ass)The very act of moving into position to exploit an enemy's rear flank uses up resources and (typically) exposes you. So you have to decide whether it's worth it. In FFT the advantage of a rear attack is %to-hit(not damage). Suppose you start toe-to-toe with an enemy. You can take a 70% chance for a hit, at which point you can maintain your position (granting a CT bonus) or improve your position (eg moving out of range forcing him to come at you). With bad luck, you have gained no damage on the enemy but at least you maintained your position and covered your asses. Alternately, you can circle around for guaranteed damage and give up your position.The best decision for any given scenario is going to depend on the position of the units currently on the field as well as their health and abilities. Of course, this assumes you haven't spend 10 hours grinding for OP stats and abilities, and aren't too psychologically weak to handle the chance of seeing a "miss!" when you attack.If you know enemies will always go for the rear, you can use this to bait and exploit the AI.>>2660916You are an ignorant brown-noser who thinks he can score points by shitting on something popular.
>>2660776Adventure needs wild places. It needs ruins, ancient things, uncivilised badlands, etc.There's no adventure in the modern world because the entire world is charted and colonised. There are no mysteries left.
>>2661044>NOOO YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DISLIKE MY SACRED CLASSIC PLS LEAVE MY NOSTALGIA ALONE OR I WILL INSULT YOU!Grow up, kiddo.FFT is famous for its terrible pacing, tendency to go from insultingly easy to literally unwinnable and back at the drop of a hat, broken/exploitable mechanics, complete lack of balancing, half the cast being trash and several other characters being so ridiculously OP they trivialize the entire game on their own, and a halfassed story that starts off strong and then shits the bed in the second half. I'd throw in the awful translation of the original English version as well, but that's not entirely fair.
>>2661044>No, you are dumb and don't understand the game.I understand this, systems design and more way beyond you. Don't speak of things you know nothing about. Especially when you're incapable of detaching yourself from your own biases.But I won't waste time going into an in-depth breakdown that will be ignored anyway.Point being that there is nothing interesting or deep about this mechanic designed in such a way. It only facilitates a pattern that breaks the core design idea of the combat system.For example, if 2 units are fighting and the optimal way is to have them circle around one another attacker each-others backs over and over, that isn't good or deep design.
>>2660963Is this a Figaro's peach, or are you stupid?
>>2660997>tend to>oftenYes, I fucking know it's possible. Anything is possible.The whining is about why aren't there more of them, and the truth is you'll find a good number of non-fantasy tactical games that aren't RPGs.
Grid based combat games are only as good as their classes and unique mechanics. Like fire emblem 3 houses sucks because it's classes are boring and combat arts are even more boring.
>>2661067>if 2 units are fighting and the optimal way is to have them circle around one another attacker each-others backs over and over, that isn't good or deep design.It's not the optimal way to play FFT, retard. That's the point, which I stated clearly and you have now proved you are too dumb to understand.>>2661067All that shit and yet you are unable to respond to the relevant point.
>>2661080>the relevant point.I fail to see a single point, relevant or otherwise, in your reply to me.It's just sad name-calling.
>>2661072>For example, if 2 units are fighting and the optimal way is to have them circle around one another attacker each-others backs over and over, that isn't good or deep design.It isn't. The optimal way is to use an instant ability and disable them before they get close. Nobody is bothering moving TG Cid behind a single mook as the core of their strategy.
Some people enjoy tactical over standard rpgs, others vice versa or both. Tactical is only better than traditional on a personal basis. If you enjoy positioning characters and longer battles then obviously tactical will be yiur preference. Going by sales numbers and games made, it is obvious the majority prefer traditional over tactical. But that doesn't mean one style is inherently worse.
>>2661128You know TG Cid is actually like that in the game and you get so many sword mages because too many players would actually try to get through the game without knowing how to buy abilities or equip command sets?FFT actually has a really deep potential with it's AI and ability programming but it never actually gets utilized because the game is balanced for casual players to just brute force it. That's why Wiglaf is such a meme even though Japanese players all play Dragon Quest and should know about not saving after a point of no return.That's not why every mission has like 4 archers or knights though, that's actually because it buffer overflows if you add too many different unit types. Same reason 11 monks is totally fine.
>>2660433The people in 90's Bosnia who carried out the false flag civilian massacre that Chapter 1's climax is based off of weren't playing a game.
>>2661195But did they get Ravness pussy out of it?
>>2660385you are retarded. a 4 niggas in a row game can be more strategical than a grid based tactical game, it has nothing to do with how good one system or the other is.It's like saying FPS games are better than 3rd person games for "immersion"Sure, technically what you are saying is true, but it has practically no bearing on the actual design of the game. the fact that you think like this basically shows you don't understand or appreciate games at all
>>2660963you are a different kind of retarded. you are like a rock bottom retarded.
>>2661224But FPS is objectively better for immersion, that's not even fucking contestable you nonce.
>>2661302Well yeah but fps fucking sucks for everything else including shooting, Metal Gear Online was shit t ons better than any FPS arena shooter or battle royale I've ever playedmetal gear battle royale when???
FFT and TO attracts a special kind of elitism, they say their games are the only good ones but they still shit on those games anyway, then when a indie/spiritual sequel takes inspiration from it, they shit on it too because it wasn't similar enough or something among those lines.This is why you're better off making threads about specific franchises rather than a general "SRPG thread", it filters the filth.
Does Tactics Ogre have a job system like FFT? I just finished FFT again after 20 years and want to play something similar.
>>2661403FFT was basically just Matsuno remaking TO, so yes it also has a job system. Pretty different from FFT though.
>>2661345>This is why you're better off making threads about specific franchises rather than a general "SRPG thread", it filters the filth.terrible idea. This either results in zero posts or more shitposts saying the game is shit because it is not FFT or TO (they don't outright say it like that, but you can be sure it is what they actually mean).
All the TO maps are a gradation of high in the back to low in the front, I get that it's a compromise for 2d iso games where you can't rotate, but isn't there a better solution
>>2661591It happens similarly in FFTA.PSP was capable of 3D but I guess they wanted to aim for a 2D pixel art aesthetic, looks better in magazines or something.
>>2661224>you are retardedNo u.>a 4 niggas in a row game can be more strategical than a grid based tactical gameHow are you going to defend your mages? Or is the AI too stupid to not target them even if they are standing in a row? If so, then the game is badly designed.Also>grid basedThere are many kinds of grids where positioning plays a great role, like Disciples 2, Battle Brothers, Trails and many more.
>>2661224>a 4 niggas in a row game can be more strategical than a grid based tactical gameWhat, average 4 niggas vs average grid based tictacs? Or just the best example of 4 niggas vs the worst example of grid based?
>>2661302If you can only get immersed in a game with a literal first-person perspective that's a symptom of autism or at least aphantasia
>>2661602You can do pixel art and 3D, the sprites already have 4 faces, you just need to move the terrain.
>>2658828>movement makes things automatically betteryes
>>2661937that's how fft and others have done it, I am thinking more of solutions without adding that extra dimension. Like hidable layers of the map with a toggle or something. I guess these days you would just go 3d
>>2661109>I fail to seeNo shit. Failure is clearly your style.You eagerly dick-sucked the guy criticizing rear attacks in FFT. When I explained how he's wrong, you failed to have any response or defense of your butt buddy's point and instead you just threw out some all-caps sarcasm and a handful of lazy memes hoping everyone would forget your original failure.
>>2661224>It's like saying FPS games are better than 3rd personYou mean First-Person perspective games? FPS is specifically First-Person shooter which covers a wide range of games with massively varying potential for immersion.But yes first-person is usually better for immersion than 3rd person.
They are just different. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>2662012Dofus and Wakfu do that, you can switch on transparency which makes you able to see sprites through walls and other sprites.
>>2658828There's usually way more depth but in exchange it usually takes forever. I prefer the (tiny minority of) games that figure out how to make four dudes in a row combat compelling.>>2658875It's slow as fuck with m+kb too.
>>2661631>How are you going to defend your mages? Or is the AI too stupid to not target them even if they are standing in a row? If so, then the game is badly designed.Labyrinth of Touhou figured out a way and its combat is better than any SRPG I've ever seen.
>>2661631>>2663524Potato Flowers in Full Bloom also got a lot of mileage out of modifying the formula into three niggas in a column, and they can see what the monsters are about to do.
>>2661345Sounds like you've got some weird ideas.I really like TO despite its astoundingly long list of mechanical issues but I really dislike FFT, and as much as it did some things better than the original I dislike the TO remake precisely because it tries too hard to ride FFT's dick (and VS to some extent because Matsuno's kinda desperate nowadays), and even if I do think TO is easily one of the more important games in the subgenre it's still not a very good game, in fact nearly every single successor is a better game in most respect, fucking NIS made better and more interesting SRPGs than TO.If you want to say FFT is a cult, you're mostly correct as exemplified from this thread, but not all people who like these games are that kind of chimp, making posts like that just incites needless hostility and it is the reason why general threads go to shit, much like some EO fans contributed to the degrading quality of the Dungeon Crawler threads by being a bit too eager to shit on other franchises and giving the rest of the people who like EO (but also play other games) a bad name.
>>2660900Have you ever heard of Energy Breaker, you go through dungeons like a typical JRPG and have a party instead of making units but it has an SRPG battle system. It works because the whole game is set in an isometric style so the areas you're travelling through ARE the battlefield when an encounter happens.
>>2660900>>2664059Treasure Hunter G and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter come to mind, albeit less with the later.
>>2658828No, it's 99% a useless waste of time with no more tactical thought needed than a 5 second Dragon Warrior 1 random fight, meaning non-autists won't be able to play a second TRPG without gaggingTo make a decent one would require massively cutting down on RPG stuff, which is absolute cancer-aids when trying to balance tactical gameplay.
>>2664059it's such a long time to spend just watching turns and moving each unit individually though; how did Ogre Battle get everything so right on the first try?
>>2664144seriously try to pretend this doesn't make you want to play it RIGHT NOWhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shi9uuIctc
>>2658828I would say from a pure gameplay perspective they are betterThese kinds of games take into account things like positioning, cover, the environment, formations, and so on. All of that gives the gameplay more depth and allows for more variety with encounters. You can have a variety of AoE spells, friendly fire, stealth that is actually meaningful, spells like invisibility that have a function other than avoiding getting hit, traps, environmental interactions, and so on The main disadvantage is the pacing but this can be mitigated by reducing the number of encounters overall but having them individually being more meaningful. The second disadvantage is depending on how the game is designed it might be awkward integrating it with exploration but devs seem to be making progress on that
>>2660900Western devs already solved this years ago
>>2658828No, and anyone who says otherwise is lying through their teeth seeing as how tactical RPGs always sell like shit. inb4 some tard brings up Fire Emblem which nearly died until they dumbed it down so hard even a toddler could get through it.
>>2658875Low IQ retard.
>>2660900>The reason why I'm not really into SRPGs is that they usually don't have any exploration, which is something I play RPGs forBecause Japs tend to still have this separation of Field and Combat..That you tansition from the Field screen to the Combat screen.You just need to make it seamless. Even better if you can combine it with stealth or choosing where to fight.
>>2661074It's the same reason why space anything is less common.It takes more time and effort to create a space setting than some generic fantasy one.
>>2664144Eh, Ogre Battle is a bit too heavy on the simulation side for my tastes, and watching battles play out instead of having active command is probably why it never caught on. I'd prefer something more like Growlanser.
>>2658828Skirmish based combat is for pussies, period. We need RPGs set in open warfare.
>>2664935Having to plan out your battle strategy by unit placement is no different than any turn based rpg where you select your entire party's commands at once
>>2664968anon the problem with those is that they're really hard to make and netcode is a bitch of a glass ceiling
>>2661345Indie games just aren't good. Modern games in general are bad. Nobody knows how to make it anymore. Lost art.
>>2664570rtwp is shit in everything except FF7R I have actually solved this problem but I'll never fucking tell anyone until I get rich enough to control the development
>>2665499There were SOME good games anon come on
>>2665493I don't think too many RPGs focus on selecting all of the commands at once anymore. Even DQXI ditches this if you're not playing in classic mode>>2665507You might as well just tell us, since we all know it's not going to happen
>>2665511Anon you lost the fight because you surrendered in your heart and at that exact moment your cultivation was sealed at that level. I will soar beyond the walls of this prison and make my dreams a reality unto the surface of this world.
>>2665507>rtwp is shit in everything except FF7RFF7R is arguably one of the worst rtwp and has absolutely atrocious combat design.We'e talking a game that loves air combat, but has shit air combat. That has tons of enemies out of range of melee or floating behind invisible barriers, which makes ranged characters very important and one of them should not have the numerous melee weapons he can have for this very reason.
>>2665575I like ff12 gameplay. It's the only ff I've enjoyed aside from 11
The Advance Wars or Tactics Ogre types of "tactical" RPG were just the first forays into tactical RPGs. WRPGs have done tactics much, much better, for example in the Shadowrun Returns series or the Expeditions series. That's not to say there's not a place for the TO style in new games, but generally it's too simple and boring at this point
>>2665915Advance Wars isn't an RPG you mong.
>>2658828>>2660385>>2660389>>2660881>>2661044>>2661631>>2664567I have never seen a single memegrid game where the grid wasn't completely pointlessIt always devolves into picking off and isolating enemies by abusing aggro range and bottleneck paths, bumrushing enemies and killing them all during your phase because enemies can't really retaliate during your phase, or both.And if it's not one of those 2 because >CTB, the grid/movement is just for show and MAYBE to nerf big attacks by having them damage allies in range, which never matters because you can just lightly brush the boss with the edge of the attack hitbox and they will take full damage anyway
>>2665575>one of them should not have the numerous melee weapons he can have for this very reason.he can still shoot even with a melee weapon
>>2661631>this is what FFTards amount todid you know a staple tank skill is something that allows them to intercept and change the target of an enemy attack to themselves? obviously you didn't, because you know jack shit about RPGs, else you wouldn't think FFT and TO are anything but dogshit
>>2666021Of course I know and I have yet to see a game where it works well. Moreover, taunting is and always was a retarded mechanic. I can excuse it existing in MMOs but not in single-player games.
>>2666096in dnd your paladin was a tank an he was just a guy wearing big armor who had high status resistance and lot of healing and buffs
>>2666096it's not taunting, it's intercepting, but a lot of tanks have conventional taunts as wellso thanks for proving you know jack shit about rpgs
>>2666100in smt it's usually a taunt instead of interceptinstead you cast spells that reflect attacks as intercepts so your tank is usually a big elephant with those exact spells
>>2666100Are you talking about 4 niggers in a row subgenre or a game with proper positioning? Because if it's the latter then yes, intercepting is both possible and logical.
>>2666117Your forced meme will never catch on.
>>2666121How about you answer my question instead of avoiding it?
>>2666121it sorta did among westoids, so all it did is give everyone a red flag to spot retards with once they spout the forced meme
this board sucks now, it's the same dumb niggers trying to start the same dumb argument over and over and then sitting there with their arms crossed acting like they're not convinced while demanding that their opponents type out the same reply to the same complaints over and over
>>2666121>>2666126>>2666127Spectacular - it's working. You never belonged to this board, it's time to get off you retarded tourists.
>>2666162anon it is simply impossible to win a war against an entrenched guerilla population. it doesn't matter what you do to us, radcommies will be here forever
>>2666178Nonsense. I'm not locked in here with you, you're all locked in here with me, faggots.
>>2666019>It always devolves into picking off and isolating enemies by abusing aggro range and bottleneck pathsIn other words the grid is not pointless.You are retarded and refuted your own point.
>>2666371>Implying making all the mechanics of the entire game completely irrelevant in favor of tedious isolate and pick off gameplay is a good thing.>Unironically defending this.Tactics games are truly irredeemable trash.
>>2658828Not automatically. If the map the battle takes place on doesn't have any impact on combat beyond "there's a wall here, go around it" then it is no more strategic than a good 4 guys in a row game, but the combat is bloated and takes twice as long. Good map design that integrates with the combat systems is paramount. Most SRPGs also seem to sacrifice deeper RPG systems and exploration for the sake of more characters and bigger combat encounters. This isn't strictly bad, but as someone who enjoys involved character progression and lots of exploration this makes SRPGs generally less attractive. If there was one that was like a dungeon crawler that would attract me, but it makes map design a bit more complicated since just fighting in a regular hallway doesn't add anything.
>>2658828It depends on the game and situation. Nothing is automatically better then something else. Sometimes tactical RPG's have better battles, but at the same time some of them are worse when you have a battle that you need to wait for 20+ enemy units to make a turn and it slogs on.
>>2661345Harvey, is that you?Why'd you delete srpg academy?
>>2668165For an experience of 1st person dungeon crawling with tactical combat try Gold Box D&D.
>>2658828Utawarerumono says you're right.
They all have their place buddy.
>>2658828One of my fav games is turn base strategy. Jagged Alliance 2 was and always be the best. they tried spinoffs but they never got it right.
>>2658902JA 2 is the very best turn based tactical ever. It's my fav. And i wish there where good games like it.
>>2658828Tactical RPGs are automatically worse than traditional RPGs. RPGs are anti-tactical, you literally can't make a 30 minute TRPG battle worthwhile, has simply never happened and never will.
>>2672943JA2 is still about 5x longer than the gameplay is worth. And it's only as good as it is because the RPG part where characters get stronger is extremely marginal compared to 99% of RPGs with tactical pretensions between it not mattering since equipment is generally far more important and the fact that they get more expensive as they level up, meaning the cheesy RPG level is somewhat subordinated to the economic level.
>>2658959>less budget spent on designing towns & dungeonsYou're right about towns but dungeons for an SRPG but dungeons & levels really require a lot more work. Sure maybe you're saving on designing assets sometimes if you recycle heavily but overall they require a lot more planning and then the content you're hand crafting is gonna go up to balance out playtime.Most games are gonna approach it with encounters/levels in which you're playtesting the hell out of them because you have movement to deal with and AI completely breaking.If you take a look at randomised dungeons/maps like you see in Disgaea's item worlds then remembering that it was possible to get stuck within the item world due to random generation cucking you (putting exits/monsters out of reach, no amount of jump chaining can work due to platform layouts) in the first 3 games. It's impressive how they built that over the years but that was their thing.Some games do random/deep dungeons right, SRPG's a lot harder and each and every time you include a new gameplay mechanic to differentiate your game from other SRPG's you're adding a point that can fail if not designed properly.SRPG's clearly require a significant amount of effort when it comes to design.
>>2661224Any gameplay system added to 4 niggas in a row to be more strategic can almost certainly be transplanted onto 20 niggas on a field getting flanked and gangbanged to have infinitely more depth.
>>2673293post by a soulless brainlet that has happy memories of grinding a calculator for 60 hours
>>2673327All hostility, zero substance.
Name one traditional RPG that comes close to FFT's combat
>>2666375Maybe you should stop playing nip ""tactical" games.
>>2661345I didn't realize the dev of Symphony of War posted on 4chan. You assmad I tore your game apart with relevant criticism, faggot?Also>make game inspired by X>X is a classic and held up as such>surprised when game is compared to XYou're an idiot.