>Wizard is the best class in the game,can do everything all the other classes can do but betterAny games where this is NOT true?
Wizard is only the best class at tables full of inexperienced players. This carries over to any RPG, midwits choose Wizard to try and do everything a bit badly.
>>2593825Hearts of Iron series.
>>2593825Every rpg that isn't dnd
>>2593846>midwitsWill never be a real word
>>2593863>youwill never be a real woman
>>2593867Talk like an adult.
>>2593895Pass like a woman.
>>2593899That is not even a sentence.
>>2594030Ceci n'est pas une femme
>>2594035You're fucking obsessedt. roon
>>2594223>t. roongross get your stinky mangina the fuck away from me
>>2593825Yeah, any JRPG where wizards are glass cannons only and where they get a spell set designed for taking advantage of elemental weaknesses like its pokemon rather than having any utility.
>>2593825Any d&d-based CRPG where Sorcerer is also an option.
>>2593825For such a common sentiment, the total and complete lack of examples every time it's brought up is very telling. Even in this thread.>D&D does it!>>which D&D game have wizards that can do everything the other classes can do but better?>...D&D does it!
>>2593825Just because they can do literally anything doesn't mean there's an obligation to play only a wizard, that's not the point of role playing games.And yes, being better than anyone is wizard's feature everywhere, game or not.
>>2594544Literally all main elder scrolls games
>>2593825>Any games where this is NOT true?They wouldn't be RPGs then.Captcha: HA HOY
>>2593859This is splitting hairs, but for rpgs based off 3.5 dnd, sorcerers tend to be better off. You're usually focusing on bread and butter spells and there's less need to prep circumstantial stuff in a lot of them. Lumping sorcerers in with wizards is fair though.
>>2594544Disgaea 5. The other Disgaea games too, but it's especially prominent in 5 where a sage which is a magic class can wipe out every unit on the map in one attack.Dragon Age Origins. Mages are already strong by themselves, and the're the best melee units too with a certain specialization. I think the same goes for the other Dragon Age games but I haven't played them as much.
>>2594990A sorcerer is okay in dnd vrpg, but you’ll still want a wizard for the more situational spells a sorcerer can’t afford to learn. A wizard without a sorcerer works better than a sorcerer without a wizard.
>>2593825Just working off of RPGs I have installed. Here are games where being "a wizard" does not do everything that others do and better:DC Universe OnlineCastle CrashersKnights of Pen and PaperWarhammer: Vermintide 2WarframeGauntletShadowrunRPGs I have installed where being "a wizard" is pretty much all you do, or possibly the best option (or basically one of the best options) and can basically do everything:Baldur's Gate 1 & 2Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2Two Worlds 2Dungeons of DredmorElder ScrollsHeroes of Might and Magic 3Torchlight 2Divinity Original SinPathfinder: KingmakerRPGs where it is questionable for a number of reasons:TerrariaUnderrailElden RingDivinity Original Sin 2DungeonlandBaldur's Gate 3 (in the low level beta)
>>2593825Pretty much anything multiplayer that gets balance patches.
>>2593825>can do everything all the other classes can do but better*once per day
>>2594544That's not true even for any other D&D edition which isn't 3.5e, and even in 3.5e its only true if you don't let martials use certain splatbooks that makes them halfcasters too. In videogames this is even less true because its way more combat focused and the high number number of encounters per rest means wizards run out of juice and have to resort to their 1d4 cantrips while the fighter can full attack the whole day.
>>2594544I don't have much experience with ttrpgs but playing 5e wizard seemed very versatile being good at both combat and utility. It's balanced with spell slots which isn't mentioned often, and I guess some creatures have magic resistance. Never been in a campaign that's lasted very long so other classes might "catch up" after level 10 or so.
>>2595105Wizards have the spell that gives them Fighter THAC0 progression, open locks, etc in 2e.
>>2593825Since you posted a character from a game from Triace(where wizards absolutely do rock the most) their game where they pretty much suck (aside for healing) when compared to physical fighters is Star Ocean 2. The animations take forever, highest damage you can pull is something that each of your fighters will do in two hits in a second and they die in like two hits.
>>2593895Adults understand what midwit means.>>2593846Wizard: can stop timeWarrior: can't stop timeI'm not sure you have a point.
>>2593825Dragon Quest all the way through.
>>2595430Wizard has to do VSM to do that. Fighter can close the gap and chop off Wizard's head before this happens.
It mostly happens when being a wizard is pretty much about doing elemental spells.
>>2593825>Fighters kill shit better>Ckerics heal and buff shit better>Sorcerers blast shit better and are CHAds who get all the bitches lol wizards are fucking nerds and losers.
>>2595227>Never been in a campaign that's lasted very long so other classes might "catch up" after level 10 or so.Anon I...Wizard (and other full casters too but mainly Wizard since it has the best spell list) have a spike in power at higher levels. The powergap increases because high level spells are much better than any possible class feature a non-caster gets.Shit like Mass Suggestion, Force Cage, Simulacrum, Maze, Wish, etc. is way better than getting some extra damage on attacks or 1 reroll on a failed save.
>>2593825Most JRPGs, wizards just do what fighters do but have to pay to do it.
>>2595230Many people get that wrong, having a fighter thaco once per day (at the cost of a blast or cc spell) doesn't make the wizard better at melee than fighter because he doesn't have the fighter hp, extraordinary str, attacks per round, weapon specialization and combat oriented magic items. The same applies for spells like transformation in 3.5e, a fighter without feats or weapon training is almost useless. If anything wizards can become half-assed fighters for a few turns per day at the cost of a spell slot which could be used for blasting or cc.
>>2595448>VSMGrognard's Cant at zoomers, nigga wth are you doing>Fighter needs to equip sword and armor>Probably yell iunno>Close the gap never happens>Wizard came buffed with a bajillion mirror image etc.The only real balance for fighters is not le conan chop head but the army and castle and political influence a warlord or king is supposed to have. And siege warfare while the wizard deals with day 46 of no rest in a vancian system.
>>2593846t. 85 IQ brainlet cope.The preponderance of idiotic zoomers like you are the reason why every rpg past 1999 sucks masive chodes.
>>2595448>>2595569Yeah exactly. I was being facetious of course with the time stop example and you can always contrive a scenario where anyone will be at a disadvantage, especially when Wizards are heavily dependent on preparation (which they are in Vancian D&D). And even in D&D, the power of any given wizard can vary greatly between campaigns depending on many factors (contrast spell availability Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate 2). The point is that it's silly to suggest that "midwits choose Wizards to do everything a bit badly."
>>2595747Well put, the real midwits are jack of all trades rangers and bards
>>2594990Missing the bigger point that OP is talking out his ass again
>>2593825They cannot heal themselves.
>>2595564In 3.5 they had spells to give themselves combat feats and spells to give them far higher STR than the Fighter, so...
>>2595564>If anything wizards can become half-assed fighters for a few turns per day at the cost of a spell slot which could be used for blasting or cc.Yeah, this is one thing people tend to miss when thinking about balance. It might not seem "fair" from an enjoyment perspective for a caster be able to use a spell to enable the player to temporarily perform as a same-level melee, but it's not nearly as unbalanced as it feels, so long as suitable tradeoffs are made to cast the spell.
>>2596520>spells to give themselves combat feats Such as? Even if they do, what do they end up with? A wizard that IF he has several turns of prep time he can use all his spell slots to buff himself into a fighter with smaller HD, worse saves and without weapon training and other class features (in Pathfinder) a few times per day. Probably the worst way you can play a wizard.
>>2595774>ranger and bards are jack of all tradesRangers can skip feat and attribute requirements for feats using the combat style feature and bards are the best buffer, has decent CC and has a skillset that makes them the best party face.
>>2595432God, wizards suck so much ass in DQ and I hate it. The spells are fun to look at and I usually love the design of the wizard class or character, but they just don't deal enough damage and their status effect spells hardly ever work. The later games even add abilities that deal damage to groups of enemies, so wizards don't even have that niche anymore.
>>2593825Early BG1. If you whiff all your spells, you may as well reload a save.
>>2596823Wizards were the best they'd ever be in DQ3 and it was all downhill from there.
>>2597312Not that anon, and while you're technically right, you did what most everyone else does when they try to point out that wizards are "op".>You didn't read what the spell does or what it needs to work in the first place.To get heroics to work you must first met the prerequisites of the feat in question. So for a wizard to get weapon specialization, they must have weapon focus, be a 4th lvl fighter and have proficiency with said weapon. Second, the Component for the spell is either armor or weapon from a 15 lvl fighter to even cast it. You can get dodge from this, but you sure as fuck not getting anything else.
>>2597341>You didn't read what the spell does or what it needs to work in the first place.I did no such thing.>To get heroics to work you must first met the prerequisites of the feat in question.Which Polymorph helps with. Not many melee feat chains are worth it compared to a simple Wraithstrike + Power Attack combo, anyway.>Second, the Component for the spell is either armor or weapon from a 15 lvl fighter to even cast it.Components with no listed value are assumed to be in your component pouch at all times. Eschew materials also does away with this.>You can get dodge from this,Way more than that. Power Attack is obvious low hanging fruit. Improved Initiative and feats that key off of it, Martial Study, Martial Stance, and this is without the obvious cheese that is using Heroics on someone else then using Mirror Move to get several feats deep into a feat chain.
>>2596823>>2597313This, in DQ3 the only thing that can outdamage a blazemost spammer is an extremely high level (and lucky) martial artist
>>2597358>Which PolymorphDoes not grant feats it grants stats. so no it doesn't. So i like to point out once again.>You didn't read what the spell does or what it needs to work in the first place.Oh and poly can get dispelled, but lets magically ignore polys downsides hmm.>Wraithstrike + Power Attack combo, anyway.So you're not getting fighter feats with this, cool.>Components with no listed value are assumed to be in your component pouch at all times.>No listed valve>either armor or weapon from a 15 lvl fighterSo you can't read.>Everything elseYou're a low hp wizard trying to melee fight with no to hit, no feats to improve to hit or damage, power attack hurts you more than anything else, poly doesn't save this either as it comes with it's downsides and you think basic feats which everyone can get makes a wizard a better fighter. Get real. Also.>Martial Study>Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite. If you have martial adept levels, this maneuver beocmes one of your maneuvers known. If you do not have martial adept levels, you can use this maneuver once per encounter as a martial adept with an initiator level equal to 1/2 your character level. If you do not have martial adept levels when you take this featYou're not getting anything broken with this that a fighter couldn't take or use better, and you're not getting martial stance for free with this spell.
>>2593825I can't even think of a game where this IS the case. Mages always lose access to cool armor and weapons or get cucked to having to conserve memorized spells. Then there's games like dragons dogma that give you cool one-shot flashy spells, which quickly stops being fun to use after you've seen the animations the first 5 times while the strider and warrior are out using cool combos and weapons and armor.
>>2597312I've only played pathfinder, but that spell looks completely worthless.>must meet feats requirementswhen mages are already starved for feats. And you have probably have shitty str/dex scores, no proficiencies, and no BaB because you're a mage. So in practice you can grab what, power attack or weapon focus on your shitty mage with poor BaB progression?
>>2598152There are spells to fix literally all of those and you can cast Heroics on yourself multiple times.
>>2597358>Eschew material>Implying the weapon or armor of a 15th level fighter would cost less than 1gp lmao grasping at straws here
>>2598270Is there a listed cost?
>>2598272That's a no.
>>2595012Only in the Dragon Age series it's an actual plot/story point that Mages are massively overpowered. Too bad that BioWare didn't have the time to implement the negative aspects into Origins, like lyrium addiction.
>>2595058>Neverwinter NightsNigger, clerics and druids are much, much more powerful and versatile.
>>2598274That's a "I can't read so I make up my own rules where my favorite class is the strongest and can do anything!!"
>>2598280>A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific costDo you see a specific cost there? No? Then stop making shit up.
>>2598285>https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htmCan't you see a cost here? Are you blind or retarded? What the fuck you think a 15th level fighter uses as a weapon which is literally free for any wizard to put on their components pouch?
>>2598290No, I don't see a cost there because it's not listed in the spell. I don't care about your interpretation. I care about what the game's saying.
>>2594972>Captcha: HA HOYbased
>>2593825>DQ3Reclassed my mage to thief and called it a day
>>2593825Pillars of Eternity
Wizards are balanced in tabletop because they're like Batman in that, yes, they have an answer for everything, but that requires foreknowledge of what they're getting into, which entails investigative work, strategy, and a bit of luck.In video games the number of possible situations are finite; you can replay the parts you were ill prepared for; and worse, you can just look up what you're going to face ahead of time. So the wizard becomes the meta option.