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Which game is more rad?
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New Vegas
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>>2066903
I think the witcher 3 was awful, only witcher game I've played. Half the game was a dumb movie, weapons were lame and barely customizable and the open world was one of the most boring I've ever seen with random tiny plots of enemies. The only redeeming factor to me was gwent. Whenever someone tells me they loved that game I immediately disregard any of their opinions. Also don't care about any of your opinions.
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>>2066903
Very different types of games. People compare them because they are fantasy and were released relatively close to each other but they are not really in the same category. .
I prefer TES simply because it has character creator and first-person view but Witcher probably has more story and role-playing elements that other people like.
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>>2066903
The Witcher 3 is console shit:
>fixed third-person
>cardboard cities
>cardboard NPCs
>combat essentially plays itself
>generic protagonist
>movement control of the character is glidey
>customisation is lacking
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>>2066903
Skyrim, and it weirds the fuck out of me how so many people shill TW3. Skyrim is a really good RPG, TW3 barely managed to be an RPG.
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Witchbros, i don't feel so good after reading the thread...
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>>2068728
All true and still miles better than any TES garbage
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>>2070729
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>>2068728

The best way I've heard it put is that when you play the Witcher, you play as Geralt, but you never feel like you're him. In other games, we enjoy the self insert but many games do not allow for it.

Mass Effect vs Kotor is a good example. Fallout 3+NV vs Fallout 4. You are not Shepard, you play as them. You are not Sole Survivor, you play as them.

I would love to see more games gear away from voiced protags and give us better role play immersion and having diverse choices.

Dragon Age Origins was the peak for me, loved how they did that and I wish it was replicated. Origin style starting positions is a lot of fun in RPGs, there are Skyrim mods that do this and they are a must have for me.
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>>2070932
Self insert trannies killed video games
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>>2070932
This is the most pointlessly hair-splitting non-criticism I've ever seen levied at a game series. Have we moved past contrarianism onto pretentiousness?
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>>2070962
Self-inserting is the whole point of RPGs
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>>2071271
Nah, self inserting is for fags. Come up with interesting characters who are nothing like your irl self and play as them.
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>>2066903
Skyrim is like heroin in that I cannot stop playing once I start and I absolutley have played it far more than The Witcher 3.
That said, Skyrim is in many ways objectively bad and The Witcher 3 is superior in basically every way.
Skyrim's only major plus is that your character is far more customizable in a few ways compared to Geralt.
Most characters end up being good at everything while only utilizing stealth archery, but the options are there and its nice for role playing.
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>>2068970
>combat plays itself
come on now, don't fucking tell me you think Skyrim has better combat.
>>
Skyrim by far. Witcher is button-mashing combat interspersed with extended cutscenes that put you out of the character's viewpoint.
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>>2066903
Both have their positives and negatives. I don't feel all that strongly about either game, though I enjoy them for different reasons.

Skyrim
> + more of a true RPG
> + can actually roleplay
> + less bloat in the open world
> + more replayability
> + great modding scene
> + great music
> - garbage writing
> - boring quests
> - shitty combat
> - very little dialogue/quest branching
> - mediocre expansions

The Witcher 3
> + a ton of memorable characters
> + very good dialogue (overall)
> + excellent side quests
> + decent amount of dialogue/quest branching (not as much as TW2 though)
> + gwent
> + great music
> + fantastic expansions
> - barely an RPG
> - almost impossible to roleplay
> - ubisoft-esque open world bloat
> - bland main quest and antagonists
> - basically no modding of note

Each game tends to specialise in the thing that the other fails at, by and large. Skyrim has terrible writing, whereas The Witcher 3 has great writing. The Witcher 3 has barely any roleplaying, whereas Skyrim has quite a bit of it (to an extent). Both games have mediocre combat, with Skyrim's being worse. Both games have great music and atmosphere.
I don't think it's a particularly good comparison though. Skyrim is a true RPG in the classical sense, whereas The Witcher 3 is more of an open-world action-adventure game with some RPG elements.
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>>2071286
>t. plays as black and mexican peoples
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>>2071298
Skyrim’s combat is 62% better than The Witcher PEE’s combat.
You have to account for accuracy, range, and timing in Skyrim. You just (emphasis on just) spam in The Witcher FLEA.
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>>2071298
>Witcher "combat"
https://youtu.be/Ak6SXL1On9I
fucking kek, the entire game can be defeated by using this simple tactic of *dodge* *hit* *dodge*

fucking Space Invaders had more complexity,
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>>2066903
witcher 3 is just a movie game, shouldve been a sony exclusive.
skyrim is a videogame but at least you can mod it to be somewhat fun
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>>2066903
Skyrim, despite having dated and/or shit mechanics, is a shallow rpg sandbox that supports role playing nearly any rpg archetype, and has great mod options
Witcher 3 is an edgy interactive movie
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>>2066903
W3 is the worst witcher. Play Witcher 2 instead.
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>>2066903
Dragon Age (Origins)
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>>2073325
>TES """"""""combat""""""""""
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I enjoyed them both :)
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>>2073211
Did you mean walk backwards while swinging your sword like a retard?
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>>2075471
Shut up, you stupid slut. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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>>2070932
You are not Tetris, you play as him.
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Skyrim by far, even though it's the worst tes game. Both are for normies, but Witcher is only for normies.
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>>2071461
>more of a true RPG
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>>2075847
You gots a problem, you dirty little slut?
Yeah, no, thought.
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>>2075886
*unzips 9 inch cock*
Yes, I do. My morning wood still hasn't ceased yet.
Bend over, WHORE. I will teach you what "roleplaying" means!
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>>2075847
Well, you're not forced to play as a predefined and voiced protagonist whose type of weapons and magic you can't change whatsoever, for one.
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>>2066903
Geralt would fuuuuuck up Dragonborn so hard, fucking guy would cry to Todd to patch him out of the game!!

Geralt was literally genetically modified to deal with such scum!

Geralt 8========>Ɛ Skyrim, haaaarddd.. haarrhhddhddd
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>>2075847
Absolutely. Witcher 3 is, much like Cyberpunk 2077, a cinematic action game pretending to be an RPG where you're forced to be a fixed character with a shitty personality.
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>>2075847
Compared to W3? It is.
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I really like The Witcher 3, but some of its fans give the game a bad reputation. Like, as good as the game is in its own ways, it ISN'T a good RPG. It's barely even an RPG at all. I wish people that like the game would just accept that, rather than getting into endless fights over how it somehow is an RPG.
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>>2073325
Ngl that description of shitty Witcher combat sounds better than Skyrim which is just spam 2h atk then pause the game periodically to drink 10 bowls of soup to refill your hp to 100%.
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>>2077701
Looks to me like you're baiting that very argument to start.
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>>2077701
it's even worse as an action/adventure
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>>2066976
tranny
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>>2071461
>> - barely an RPG
>> - almost impossible to roleplay
I like how you mentioned the same flaw twice
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>>2084523
chud
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>>2084541
It's worth mentioning twice
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>>2066976
How? 70% of the game is cut content
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>>2066976
The discussion is about The Witcher 3 and Skyrim though.
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>>2066903
neither retard
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>>2085456
It's not worth mentioning even once tbdesu
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>>2087377
It is, though, especially since this is the RPG board. Criticising a game for not having enough RPG elements is completely valid.
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Fuck sake...
If The Witcher 3 is not an RPG then Planescape:Torment (you know, that CULT RPG that every game copies in this or that way, small or big) is not an RPG..

/this dumb discussion
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>>2089326
Stop baiting, you double nigger.
Captcha DN2A2, apparently that poster lacks a pair of chromosomes.
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>>2066903
They're both utter fucking trash
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>>2068970
Skyrim is console shit as well you fucking dolt, they both suck dog dick

>>2070587
No wonder the genre is dead when dumb fucks like you are the target, Skyrim is quite possibly the worst thing to happen to RPGs
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>>2089466
Skyrim is like practically every RPG from the 80's and early 90's. At some point in the early 00's a bunch of fuckers decided branching narrative == RPG because their favorite game did it despite that never being a core component of RPG video games previously. It was always about developing the world space and how the player built their character to interact with it.
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I never played the Witcher 3 but in the art and aesthetics department Skyrim is way more attractive, at least the armors

W3 armors are indeed of way better technical quality and are more practical but they just seem very generic and boring. Most or Geralts armors seem to be just generic black leather "tough guy" fantasy armor from TV shows and NPCs have generic HRE/Central European armor from the 15th century.
They're detailed and nicely colored but they come of as bland
Yes, yes, Skyrim armors are unrealistic, mostly not functional, low resolution without mods....
but they seem way more varied and interesting.

I guess it's the setting, Wither is medieval not-Poland but with fantasy creatures running around. TES is a full fantasy world
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>>2088668
maybe if you are retarded
the only qualification for discussing a game here is that there are enough elements that some people reasonably call it an RPG. In a thread about whether Skyrim or Witcher is "more rad", the relative RPGness could not be less relevant. Again, except to people like you who are utterly retarded.
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Detailed, high-quality... but simply boring.
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>>2090842
There are exception, this one seem to be a homage to 90s Dracula, but TES seem way better in the armor and outfit department overall.
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>>2090848
Meanwhile Skyrim has armors from way more types of materials and from very different cultures, almost all of them wearable.
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>>2066903
Both are for so.y guzzlers who worship Henry Cavill cause he's just like them
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>>2066903
Skyrim has mediocre combat, awful writing, terrible quests, dismal level design, butchered lore. But somehow is more than the sum of its parts
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>>2091442
Yes. It's even worse than the sum of its parts somehow.
>>
Jesus Christ, this post is like Facebook, better just not to enter into it..
Skyrim armor(except Nord starting armor) from Glass to up is literally designed by watching motorcycle helmets and leather wardrobe..

Check every helmet from Ebony up and compare them with average motorcycle helmet..
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>>2066903
Witcher 3 easily
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>>2066903
Skyrim has been rendered obsolete long ago. It's like the most basic and predictable basic RPG game ever, but it's so barebones and everything is such a half-measure. Witcher 3 has a shit ton of problems and is indisputably overrated, but of course it's better than Skyrim.
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>>2077664
This. A game with choices that matter and affect the story is not an rpg, while games where every dialogue option is yes or no, are true RPGs because you can play as your tranny OC
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>>2093165
>>2093219
>>2093363

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the self-proclaimed "hardcore rpg fans" who deride Skyrim as "dumbed down" are ironically too stupid to recognize choice and reactivity that isn't explicitly spelled out for them in a dialog box or cutscene.

Example: In the quest "Missing in Action" (the one where you save Thorald from a Thalmor prison), most players raid the keep and fight their way through. But if you've joined the Imperial Legion, you totally have the option to go to Tulius and request he release the prisoner, he'll write up the order, and the Thalmor will obey it.

The option is there, but the game doesn't just tell you about it. It tests your belief in the world. If you're truly roleplaying an Imperial, you should naturally seek out a way to remediate the situation through due process not go behind the Legion's back.
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>>2093538
That's definitely a good example, but are there many others like this? From memory, the vast majority of Skyrim's quests had only one way to complete them.
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>>2093538
And when the game doesn't give me an option? I guess it stops being an RPG then, right?
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>>2093544
The majority yes, but if you kill someone before the quest starts proper (Taste of Death) or abuse illusion magic (In My Time of Need, Laid to Rest), you can resolve the quest to your advantage either by keeping certain people alive or extracting an extra reward.

In the infamously buggy quest, Blood on the Ice, you can skip past a lot of the quest if your lockpicking is good enough. You can force your way inside Hjerim and open a chest in Calipso's shop that incriminates him. It's also just a cool quest in general because playing through it normally you'll wrongfully arrest the court mage but the quest is marked as completed. It's only when you reenter Windhelm after 3 game days have passed when you'll find another murder and the quest will reenter your log.

Also a cool tangent related to that quest, one of the former victims is Friga Shatter-Shield, but her sister Nilsine and mother Tova are alive in game. An optional Dark Broterhood contract you can receive has Nilsine as a target. If you fulfill the contract (or kill her for any other reason), you can find Tova dead in her room with a suicide note.

The beautiful thing about these examples though is that none of these are presented as explicit options. This is something that happens through clever use of the game's mechanics. Most of them also serve as soft skill checks without ever issuing a clunky prompt to do something because you're level x in skill y. Skyrim has some brilliantly organic roleplay that too often doesn't get credit.
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>>2093658
>often doesn't get credit
Because between the player and that "organic roleplay" there's a high wall of bethesda jank
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>>2093538
>I'm becoming more and more convinced that the self-proclaimed "hardcore rpg fans" who deride Skyrim as "dumbed down" are ironically too stupid to recognize choice and reactivity that isn't explicitly spelled out for them in a dialog box or cutscene.
I've been convinced of that for a long time and I don't even like Skyrim very much. I find combat boring, dungeons boring, lore boring, etc. It's like every single system has just enough quality to not be complete utter garbage that makes me stop playing, but not anywhere near enough to entice me to play for reasons other than sandbox/imagination/coomshit. Skyrim is enjoyable as a sandbox RPG where I can play pretend but not as a game I can really get into seriously.

But I would love to see other more hardcore RPGs take a more TES-like approach to their main quest and world design.
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>>2093669
A lot of games worth playing are janky because they're so ambitious. For how much Skyrim allows you to do, it runs okay enough (except on PS3 but that console only offered 256MB of RAM). And like the game is enormously popular so clearly the jank didn't stop most people from appreciating it. I find that people have a hard time putting the game's strengths into words, usually just calling it all "freedom" or "exploration". Which is true, I guess, but there are mechanical reasons why people feel those things more intensely in Skyrim than other games and one of those reasons is its organic, even emergent, roleplay offered by its many systems.
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>>2093692
Yeah, that's the one critique that I think is fair. If you want tight, refined mechanics, Skyrim just won't offer that. At the very least this is something Bethesda is continually improving (despite it pissing off older fans for some reason). Like Skyrim's combat just barely crossed the threshold of "not utter garbage" but that's an improvement over their previous games that didn't even meet that low bar. And by FO4, after a lot of consultation from id, their combat actually starts to become fun on its own. It won't impress fps fans, but it's competent which is more than can be said for some open world games like RDR2.
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>>2093538
>I'm becoming more and more convinced that the self-proclaimed "hardcore rpg fans" who deride Skyrim as "dumbed down" are ironically too stupid to recognize choice and reactivity that isn't explicitly spelled out for them in a dialog box or cutscene.
The same goes for lore. If something isn't written in a book or clearly spoken by an NPC, it doesn't exist for some people. Things like murals, dead NPCs, clues in the environment etc. are often ignored.
Then again it could be because older RPGs used to have UIs with a lot of text that showed a huge amount of detail about the game and the actions of the player, so many players are used to that. TES games are going for a very minimalist UI, and that's not entirely good.
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>>2066976
>more rad
I get it.
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>>2093861
>And by FO4, after a lot of consultation from id, their combat actually starts to become fun on its own. It won't impress fps fans,
FO4 combat was indeed improved, but it lacked many elements from Skyrim, like dual-wielding weapons, archery, which would make sense in the setting, blocking, raiders in the concept art had riot shields, etc....
In this case it could have been a bit more of a "Skyrim with guns"
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>>2094307
>dual-wielding weapons
That’s unnecessary, boob.
>archery
Again, boob, that’s unnecessary.
>had riot shields
That just would’ve been ridiculous, boob. How would they’ve balanced riot shields around melee and ranged combat? They couldn’t’ve, boob.
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>>2066903
Skyrim has in depth mods, so I'll say Skyrim. Witcher 3 is cool though.
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>>2094519
>Witcher 3 is cool
There’s nothing “cool” about being Polish.
Grow the fuck up, fag.
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>>2075791
I am Tetris
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>>2094597
you ARE… a NIPPLE…!
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>>2094268
Yeah, it struck me when I was playing Hollow Knight. Despite not being remotely in the same genre, it reminded me of Skyrim. The sense of exploration and discovery and a rich world and lore conveyed subtly through environmental design not exposition dumps.
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>>2094307

Not sure if >>2094493 is being facetious, but my guess is that dual-wielding presented some challenges to traditional fps design (how would scopes work, for instance?). Maybe someone also brought up that dual-wielding guns isn't "realistic" (lame, but c'est la vie).

Archery though, no real reason not to include that which is why 76 added it back in with the Wastelanders update.
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>>2093538
When people (with a brain) speak of "dumbing down" in Tes usually they refer to mainly two things:
-The simplification of the systems in order to appeal to a wider audience (which is something Todd admitted himself). Things like less armor types, less spells and magic schools but also essential npcs.
-The quest markers, which according to many and to me as well are completely at odds with the original game philosophy that Bugthesda had extablished in Morrowind (which is: you are a stranger in a strange hostile land, freedom is the only rule: go and do whatever the fuck you want) which made that game so special and unique.
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>>2066903
I'm trying to complete witcher 3, I tried multiple times in the past and always got bored, it's simultaneously pretty and ugly and its good look are about all it had going for it, however I still play skyrim a shit ton and have played it for thousands of hours over the years. It's the quintessential role playing game. I don't even hardly mod it these days
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>>2066903
The problem with The Witcher 3 is that it’s shit.
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>>2094728
Most of this is just the reality of larger scale, more polished projects.

>simplification of systems in order to appeal to a wider audience
"Dumbing down" is a rather crude way to put it but I guess not technically wrong. What should be mentioned though is that the more complex system isn't necessarily superior. If certain skill trees and abilities aren't distinct enough, it's worth considering cutting duplicates and spending your efforts on making a single mechanic more engaging. There's also stuff like acrobatics or levitation that are just going to break level design so the rationale for cutting them seems sound.

And new systems were introduced that increased the complexity in other ways. Crafting weapons/building houses was introduced in Skyrim then greatly expanded upon in FO4.

>essential npc's
Probably just to reduce their own headaches when bugfixing. With more npc's and quests, more stuff can get broken by one character dying. Worth noting, they rolled this back in FO4 which people maybe don't realize because the Minutemen are the default/essential faction but also the first one you meet. You can gun down everyone else.

>quest markers
You're just gonna have to get use to these I'm afraid. There's just too much stuff to keep track of for devs not to use this convenience tool. If a dev wants to change the location of a fort or something, the quest marker is already integrated and will move along with it. Versus having to dig up every reference and rewrite then bring in VA's to rerecord directions and artists to redraw sign posts. It's just not feasible at scale. There's this meme of "unreliable quest givers" in Morrowind, but really most of that is a reference the devs forgot to change. Even that game was already buckling under its own scale.
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>>2094912
>>essential npc's
>npc’s
bro, your retarded
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>>2095222
I use the apostrophe to delineate the initialism from its pluralization. I guess at that point I should just use caps.
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>>2095241
nice try, libtard
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>>2094912
just make the structure of the game before you actually start producing it
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>>2094912
All of your arguments are fundamentally correct (minus some details here and there) but you're missing the point. I am aware that these simplifications were made for the sake of convenience during dev time (amongst other things), but when people lament the absence of the rpg systems present in previous games they don't do it out of a belief that their removal was an unsound decision from an economic or logistic standpoint, but because they (we) believe that their absence makes the game poorer as a game and as an experience (and not because we're grugs who dogmatically believe that more complex = better). Regarding F04, I haven't played the game so I can't comment on that.
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>>2095495
Sure, keeping every feature and losing nothing would make for better games. But that's not possible, there are always tradeoffs. The devs have to come down on one side or the other. So long as they execute well and keep an original vision, I'm willing to go along with it. I guess it's more frustrating in this instance because Bethesda's the only game in town.



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