>Vvardenfell in TESIII is smaller than Cybiades island of Illiacbay in TESIINow I understand why Vvardenfell feels like a small amusement park to me, all the settlements and dungeons are jampacked so close to each other. It tries to make it feel bigger artificially in the beginning by making the player's walking speed very alow, no mountable animal even when pack guars exist, and no fast travel unless you pay money to stiltstriders and boats. But when player's speed evetually increases and gains ability to jump long distance, one can see how small it is. When anyone just leaves a settlement and after a small walk in wilderness, they bump into next settlement or a dungeon. Whole map's length can be covered in just three long-jumps. Although some places are much more detailed with a very exotic feel to it, making it very interesting to explore. Adding Tamriel rebuild provides some more play space.
>>1778373TES 2 is an RPG that tries to be a d&d emulator, similar to how Fallout 1/2 has loads of empty space for random encounters, or star control has hundreds of star systems for you to explore, the world is not actually meant for you to explore every portion of it but to give the illusion you're in a living, big world instead of something artificial.
>>1778423>the world is not actually meant for you to explore every portion of it but to give the illusion you're in a living, big world instead of something artificial.That's better, the world feels real, rather than feeling like a kid in an amusement-park. And procedurally generated world can be interesting to explore in some of its regions. And TESIII Morrowind is also prettymuch a dungeon crawler game, literally every wuest is either to go to a dungeon or a person and fetch an item or kill a target enemy. Exactly same concept as TESII Daggerfall's quests. But difference is Morrowind's dungeons are small and less complex, making it easier to explore it all and remember the way out, whereas in Daggerfall the recall spell is important unless you wanna get lost deep in a dungeon for some time, but that's what made it challenging. And Daggerfall is prettymuch a horse riding simulator too where you have large enough space to travel on your horse.
>>1778423>the world is not actually meant for you to explore every portion of it but to give the illusion you're in a living, big world instead of something artificialI don't know why this concept is so difficult for zoomers to grasp
>>1779093when the fuck were zoomers mentioned in this thread
Yeah but its boring as fuck
>>1778373Daggerfall is barebones. I'd agree with you if Daggerfall was actually an interesting place to explore. It's literally 99.99% flatland with nothing, and .01% of towns and dungeons that get extremely repetitive due to being entirely procgen with no unique places or architectures, or complexity to them. They are more simple than Minecraft dungeons
What's the point of the huge world if you can't even explore it? You are literally hopping from one town to another. The space in between essentially doesn't exist, it might as well be an illusion.
>>1778373If Bethesda had any talent they would just mage the game area of an appropriate size. You don't need to do an entire province every game.
>>1779803Low IQ normies would whine like they always do about the dumbest shit. "Wahh why cant I explore ALL of this province?" even though the focused game area is like 5 times the size of Skyrim.
>>1779744That was old tech. Today we can create better procedurally generated worlds.Even the interesting terrains and wilderness overhaul mods created by a single modder each make the world in Daggerfall unity many times better to explore, so a big budget project like this can do wonders in today's game engines.
The world isn't THAT big. When you're a Novice the fear for beast's encounters make it bigger. With good athletics, wandering on top mountains, you can see two or more structures around you.Ultima has a bigger world, the paths between cities are long journeys.
>>1779821>so a big budget project like this can do wonders in today's game enginesIn theory yes, in practice I can't see the current-day companies with the budgets to do so not cut corners as much as possible>>1779845Ultima 1 or other Ultima?
>>1779821Procedural generation rarely spawns quality content.Nothing, ever, will beat manually generated and thoughtout content.
>TFW you thought games my shift back to smaller more crafted maps>LARPing zommies instead want to intensify the trend of souless empty procedural maps to try and fit inYou fuckers. This was supposed to end.
>>1779748I could see it working if certain wilderness areas are also handcrafted with things to discover and explore. Those could be indicated in some way. The majority of the wilderness (and agriculture, nondescript towns, etc.) could be procedural. It exists so a whole province isn't the size of a large city park. True, not much more than a detailed skybox, but a certain type of player would enjoy travelling through it.
>>1779933It doesn't has to be hundered percent procedurally generated. All the settlements and dungeons related to mainquests can be tailormade. The rest of wilderness and settlements are there to fill the gaps.
>>1780102Hope you enjoy your soulless open world.
>>1780105It's entirely possible to have 100% of the soul of a smaller world, just with procedural bits in between. Soul could be seen as being intimately familiar with the map, and knowing every bit of it. It could also be seen as knowing where the good places are, and how to get to them, even if the rest may be less memorable. The latter is how the real world actually is, and the effort to get to the best sights is part of the experience.
>>1780105Daggerfall has more soul in its world than morrowind does from my experience after playing both the games. Traveling from settlement to settlement and to a dungeon is a real deal in daggerfall, rather than the small walk in morrowind, and morrowind's wilderness feels as much procedurally generated, with densely packed wild cratures. Its just that it has kept all the main locations and removed everything in between, and even then all the Ashlander camps are copypaste of each other, all the plazas in Vivec are copy paste pyramids with same basic layout inside, all the other settlemnts are very small hamlets with all the huts which look same, all the settlements in eastern islands are same tree-mushroom towers layed down in different patterns. So, it provides copy paste world and even that scaled down.
people itt want a procedurally generated survival/dungeon crawler hybrid
>>1778447>And procedurally generated world can be interesting to explore in some of its regions.>make current standard elder scrolls map>all hand-built cities and dungeons of importance>bloat map out, maybe 1/2 to 1/4 the size of Daggerfall's>procedurally generate the nondescript land between all the locations of actual importance>shitty no-name dungeons generated into these areas as you exploreThis sounds like a good idea in my head except for how the player is going to get around.Give them fast travel and everyone's going to utterly ignore the vast distances between locations.Take it away and no one's going to want to play walking simulator 20XX.
>>1780214>no one's going to want to play walking simulator 20XX.Ahem! There are many who travel all those distances in games like daggerfall voluntarily even when fast travel exists. Its the reason there are mods like tedious travel and travel options which are popular among daggerfall fans.
>>1780208That's what original TES was, it has strayed away from that and become a generic game franchise providing nothing which isn't already provided in other franchise.
>>1780214TES 2 has consequence for travel which is gold and time spent
>>1779952contemporary openworld games are bad because they're checklist simulators. TES 2 is the antithesis to the checklist type of gameplay.
>>1780252that's what every rpg was when the orginal came out, they've been keeping with trends ever since
>>1780252Immersive first person open world with detailed environment and interesting setting (Oblivion excepted). I've already played Kingdom Come. Do you know any other games that remotely come close to the Elder Scrolls feeling?
>>1779933I wouldn't say "Ever", but it's going to take a while to even come close.
>>1779748Do you fast travel between towns or do you have to walk?
>>1778373I felt the same way, one I got access to advanced magic I felt how small the game really is. At my last playthrough I had maximum acrobatics, a ring that casts a spell 100 jump and finally adding 100 jump by me and stacking them I no longer even needed to use fast travel.
I want to be a Knight of Evermore
>>1780105the point of open world games is to lose yourself in the experience. contemporary openworldgames are based on checklist gameplay. Great argument /v/
>>1778373expansive procedural nothingness
>>1780299t. ZoomerDaggerfall is huge checklist gameplay. If you'd actually played it, it's just checklist spread amongst a larger emptier world. Ironically, Skyrim is where they tried to avert this with the whole "radiant" whatever they plugged in. That's why still people bitch about San Andreas being easier to immersive yourself in over GTA V, the games DM isn't just saying "I'm hung over, go look around and find some weapons or whatever". Because anyone over 14 knows that's not immersion.
>>1781770ive played the game 5 times. So how is it a checklist simulator?
>>1778373>I prefer eating the Sahara desert to a chocolate dessert because it's bigger.Such a bizarre criteria to judge a game by.
>>1782440and yes, that was a food analogy, if you don't like it you can suck my dick.
>>1782440Its immersion breaking.
>>1778423Which only makes it more artificial
>>1780161>Traveling from settlement to settlement and to a dungeon is a real deal in daggerfall,they're all exactly the same, every region is the exact same there is no difference what the fuck are you talking about
>>1785458>didn't physically walk through procedurally generated terraindisgusting
>>1781063you have instantaneous fast travel but you can choose to walkin Daggerfall Unity there's a mod called "tedious travel" that allows you to walk between towns but at 64x speed
>>1778373So this means it would be impossible to remake Daggerfall in modern graphics since it's so big right?
>>1785560>you can choose to walkNo you fucking can't, first of all there's no point at all travelling from one town to another outside of quests telling you to fulfill an objective somewhere else but the place it'll send you will likely be on the other side of the region you're currently in which would take you hours and hours in real life to actually travel that distance in-game, and god forbid you're sent to another region then good fucking luck that'll take you days and then once you finally arrive you have to travel back in most cases.Don't blatantly lie to people about how daggerfall works what is wrong with you.
>>1785701Oh I forgot to mention I was talking about travel time while on horseback, good fucking luck trying this shit while you're on foot or a vampire.
>>1778373I love these threads. It causes so many zooms to fall for the daggerfall meme
Daggerfall being better because of it's scale is retarded. You aren't getting anything interesting or unique to explore with that scale, you get overly primitive procgen copy paste tier towns and dungeons every where. If the dungeons were more interesting than being a hallway maze simulator than it'd be worth exploring just for the sake of exploring and not explore for the sake of getting some shitty procgen quest item to fetch. Skyrim is wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle. Daggerfall is as wide as 1000000000000000 oceans and deep as one puddle. I hope modders fix Daggerfall's lack of interesting places to explore (And the combat). Boring combat and boring labyrinthian hallway simulators = headache inducing borefest..
I watched the same boomers that praise Daggerfall as the best RPG ever, and they sounded/looked bored as shit playing it. They praise the limitless roleplay options, but the meat of their gameplay is mindlessly travelling to one place to another and clicking left mouse button over and over, so much for character build diversity. Where is the roleplaying? The only roleplaying is the huge amount of different guilds you can join. Even then the meat of those guilds is fetch quests and hopping into boring hallway simulators. Modders try to make Daggerfall look good as possible with graphic mods but they haven't solved the true flaw of Daggerfall: its uninteresting gameplay and uninteresting exploration
>>1785701>>1785702Do you not know how the internet works? Literally the first result when you type in Daggerfall walking. You definitely can walk from town to town, you're the one lying saying you can't lol.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoURU7VK8uo
>>1785713>MemeI actually enjoy playing Daggerfall. It takes a certain level of autism to enjoy, but it provides one of the best medieval fantasy life simulators you can get. It's still complete crap without DF Unity, which fixes 99% of the game-ruining problems.
>>1785774I'm gonna need you to put on your big boy pants, go back and read what I wrote.Look at the video you posted and see how it says "part 1" then looks at the total amount of time it took the guy to travel that distance.Then I'm gonna need you to think real hard about why you're an idiot.
>>1785774Does your retard ass actually waste hours walking in between towns like this? It can be done but it wasn't designed for you to do so, there's nothing out there to explore along the way. The Daggerfall world you explore is all copy paste towns and dungeons. It's not a good game. Autists can enjoy it, good for them but Daggerfall being the best RPG is laughable.
>>1785784>>you can choose to walk>No you fucking can'tI'm gonna need you to go back and read what you wrote. You 100% can choose to walk. It would be dumb, but you can do it.
>>1785841You're a jackass, someone asked if they could walk between towns or if they needed to fast travel.The reply was misleading as fuck saying you could walk which is just a huge crock of shit.Go fuck yourself and stop lying to people to trick them into playing the game when they don't know what it actually is.
>>1785582No, We have No Man's Sky in modern graphics.
>>1785737It isn't there to be explored, its not GTA, the wilderness is there to give beautiful background to the city or dungeon area you are in and to give a sense of real scale of that region of Tamriel. But, its also not just mere background, and if you decide to go into it, stand on that distant hill you see from the city, you have freedom to do so. Although in vanilla game its mostly empty of enemies, but more wilderness encounters and bandit camps which resemble those of latertes games can be added, there are mods for that. The pont I am making is, if Morrowind had all those tailormade settlements which are already there in the game, along with the Vvardenfell being a 1:1 size as described in lore, and filling the empty space between these main quest related tailor-made settlements and dungeons with procedurally generated wilderness and copy paste hamlets, and giving more space to those densely packed beasts in it's current tiny wildarea, would have been much better.
>>1785765I am a zoomer and would like to see Daggerfall's concepts reimplemented in some new game engine, taking the benefit of advanced tech to make a game like that better, insted of running that same old code in a mediocre new engine like what Daggerfall Unity does.
>>1786232And ofcourse a fast travel option if one wants to instantly skip to the location of their interest instead to crossing that big wilderness.
>>1785788why walk when there are airships that can be added in the game. Zap around the skies while enjoying vast beautiful scenery below you and at horizons.