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Why are main characters in JRPGs never mages?
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>>1534533
because japs have their obsession with a talentless sword swinging teenage boy
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>>1534533
Do alchemists (it's all reagent heavy magic) or necromancy count? Because then you're already very wrong and I didn't even have to think hard.
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>>1534533
They're often mage-knights with ultimate potential in both magic and melee.
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>>1535276
More like they're usually knights that can throw out a lightning bolt now and then, rather than mages who can also swing a sword.
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>>1535276
IOW they are chosen ones with no major downsides and in most class based RPGs mages are soft.
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Another reason is probably that higher HP/def characters are easier to play. So a game starts simple and the mage joins later on.
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Why are heroes in mythology never mages? Dumbass question
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>>1535298
They often are though. They just multiclass into at least one martial class too.
Mages in mythology aren't weedy faggots in bathrobes.
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>>1535298
Why do you bring up mythology when you clearly know little about it? Practically every mythological figure has magic powers of some kind.
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>>1534533
Because everyone can cast spells in JRPGs anyway.
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There's plenty of caster main characters in JRPGs, maybe you should actually play them instead of just talking about them.
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>>1534533
>FF6
Terra is a mage

>FF10
Yuna is a mage/summoner; and yes, she's a main character so get bent

topic fail
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>>1534533
People bitch and complain that its 'too hard' if the MC doesn't hit like a truck and shrug off nuclear blasts
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>>1535702
Those aren't main characters
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>>1534533
Because main characters should be on the front line. They are usually the focus of the story and the leader of the party.
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>>1535702
>yuna
>mc
are you seriously this retarded?
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*blocks your path*
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>>1534533
Excluding games where you make your own character, because OP would instantly be a faggot in that case:
Ni No Kuni
Quest 64
the entire Atelier series
Labyrinth of Refrain
Star Ocean 2
Xenosaga (sorta)
Diablo/2
and that's being strict about only the playable character. OP is still a faggot. and to answer the question: mages are for retards who suck at moving.
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>>1535818
Ah yes my favorite JRPG Diablo 2
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>>1535321
>>1535312
Magic powers, yes, many rpg heroes also have magic powers. But an actual mage, someone that studies the dark arts and practices them all the time? This is what OP meant, surely. Because Geralt uses magic. JRPG protags all use magic.
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>>1535824
whoops. thought the OP just said RPGs. ignore the single outlier, if you are capable of it.
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You guys seem intentionally obtuse.
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>>1535818
>>1535824
don't forget planescape torment
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>>1535565
I'm talking central protagonist, not some SaGa shit where there's a chapter about him
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>>1536177
>Multiple, central main characters with their own stories don't count!!!
You're fucking retarded, and even without considering that series there's plenty more like DQ5
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>>1534533
Bro if you didn't get to choose your class, in a class-based game, it's an instant drop. I still have JRPGs left to play, so you are wrong obviously.
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>>1535818
Forgot FF7, where Cloud is by far the best magic user remaining after Aerith dies and making him another one of your 5 physical attackers is a total waste.
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>>1534533
1) there are some games where you they are / you can pick your own class
2) Typically it's because they're 1) squishy and 2) it's not typically seen as a big heroic class since you're in the background nuking shit. That's why it's usually given to a side-kick or friend. That way the MC gets to shine by being up in the middle of combat.
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>>1534533
Warriors lead.
Mages serve better as the right-hand man
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>>1534533
I don't know if Fire emblem counts but Awakening's MC is a mage.
Also most SMT protags could be classed as mages.
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>>1534709
This.
Who the fuck knows why, but seriously fucking 80% of protagonists fit this archetype, with 10 more % filling out very similar archetypes, like TWO swords, or a BIG sword.

>>1535276
They are pretty commonly some degree of hybrid, but very rarely are the the best at both. They are typically mediocre mages at best, often having a smattering of average healing abilities, and one relatively small magic attacking niche, usually either Light or Wind.
The Light/healing subspecialty is almost always derived from Dragon Quest, where the hero is literally just a fucking Paladin.
Usually, they tend to be jack-of-all-trades, above average in most, being consistently the 2nd-4th best at everything, but only very rarely the best at any one thing, or if they are the best at something, it'll be a multi-faceted thing, like overall DPS/DPT, as their balance of strength, accuracy, and agility makes them more consistent than your big dick axe man, or less situational than your pussy bitch thief.

>>1536855
Cloud is outperformed as a mage by both Vincent and Cait Sith. Vincent is generally atrocious, however, so shouldn't really be considered unless you have a hardon for him, and Cait Sith is consistently underrated by people who only breathe the "Cait Sith bad, hurr, annoying cat" memes, when he's actually probably the 4th best character in the game. Not like it matters, given how piss easy FF7 is, but still.

However, Mage Cloud IS generally the best build for the middle portion of the game, when Red is dunking on the rest of the party for physical damage output.
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>>1536855
>where Cloud is by far the best magic user
Magic in FF7 is fucking garbage outside of KoTR spam (which is so busted it doesn't even matter who casts it) and you're a massive fucking retard to even begin considering using Cloud as a "mage" when Ultima Weapon exists.
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>>1535826
Anon, mythology isn't an autism simulator with grognards reeeing at each other over definitions.
Mages/wizards are all over in mythology, they just don't conform to the D&D brand of classes.
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You forgot one
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Another >>1538361
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>>1536855
>Aerith dies
Wow, thanks for the spoiler.
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>>1535321
>>1535312
can you name a few mage heroes from myth? i'm not doubting you i'm actually curious. are gishes the true hero archetype class?
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>>1534533
Seraphic Blue since the main character is Vene
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>>1538367
I can't think of any besides Merlin. Adventuring heroes tend to happen upon magical artifacts but that's not the same as having magical powers or being able to cast spells. Some heroes like Hercules have superhuman physical attributes but in his case it's due to his heritage, and sometimes it's just stated that humans used to be better than they are now. Homer has some of his heroes lift enormous boulders that he points out would take dozens of contemporary men to lift. But again, that's not a mage.

Even "magical" characters are often like potion masters or have to fashion charms, like a magical smith or something. The ability to conjure forces or objects from nothing seems to be limited to gods and other divine creatures. Humans can't do that shit. Shapeshifting comes up a lot as well but again, that's usually due to some kind of magical or divine heritage. Merlin himself has an incubus father. The classic "mage" seems largely invented by Tolkien and then run wild with by pulp fantasy writers.

Interestingly, the classical era had legit town sorcerers that you could go and purchase a spell cast for a good harvest or spell or whatnot. There are some reports of customers not getting what they wanted being able to get their money back even. Although their powers seemed to have been rituals that had a higher percentage chance of a god paying heed rather than manipulating an arcane force directly. And of course they sold potions as well. In any case, I don't recall these figures ever being featured in classical myth. Certainly not as heroes. In DnD terms they're probably closer to a cleric anyway.
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>>1538367
>mage heroes from myth
Besides Merlin let me think. Sorcerers and witches with mysterious powers exist in myths, but they're rarely a hero. Real people have claimed to be magicians and have magical abilities in history that's sort of a thing, but they're not cultural heroes.

Zeus is a protagonist of sorts in some stories like the Illiad. There's also the story of him against Typhon. He's magic, but he's not a mage who studies, he's just the most powerful god. Hermes has magic tools he gives heroes, again a god. Certain heroes and characters were gifted magical abilities like being oracles or given magical tools, but often prophets and seers are supporting characters.

Aladdin was also a magic user of sorts from the Arabian Nights, but his magic comes from a magic lamp and a genie, not from learning spells or something. Moses is another magic using type, he works for his god and that's what really gives him power. Joseph and his flashy colored coat was given a holy gift, as was Samson with his superhuman strength. Cú Chulainn was a hero with the magic power of the warp spasm he was the child of a god though. Sun Wukong was not human, but he's a mythical hero with magic powers and learns more. Perseus was another child of a god, with gifts like flight, invisibility, and turning others to stone through the magic items he had. Rama and Krishna are the avatars of major Hindu gods.

Probably the closest to what you're looking for is Setne the magician from ancient Egypt where people can read from the book of the dead and learn occult powers from ancient monuments use magic charms and amulets and such.
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>>1535752
>>1535793
Co-Main Characters
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>>1538363
Just because Mao CAN be a mage doesn't mean he isn't better off with a sword.
Hell, relatively speaking, Laharl is a better mage in D1 than Mao is in D3.
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>>1534533
Literally every Atelier game starting with Rorona, and before Iris have essentially "mage" leads. The girls are good at making items, and throwing them, while they get protected. None of them are really that great with physical/skill based stuff. Some don't even have any to begin with.

I know, alchemy and mage are still kinda different, but it should be close enough.
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>>1536855
Cloud isn't a mage though. He's a "can-do-everything" uber class.
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>>1534533
The Ur JRPG hero is the DQ1 protag who is an all rounder mage knight.
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>>1538367
Unironically, Odin. He was widely known for his magic powers, specially animal morphing and using thunder as well as bottomless knowledge.
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>>1538367
Abrahamic religions have king Solomon and Moses
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>>1537307
>SMT protags could be classed as mages
To be fair, they're jack of all trades, and there are a couple of protagonists that aren't capable of using magic in the series.
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>>1538414
>The classic "mage" seems largely invented by Tolkien and then run wild with by pulp fantasy writers
Even Tolkien's mages had some divine aspect or heritage to them. Gandalf and Saruman were basically angels in human form (and they still used magic items to do mage stuff), the elves have divine heritage, etc.
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>>1539170
>DDS
>Magic provides max mp, magic attack and magic defense
In some games it might be more fair. But in DDS you only make your life hard by choosing physical. And isn't that exactly what a mage is about? Suffering if you try typical physical, and awesomeness when going magic?
And then there's stuff like SMT4a, where the MC is mostly good for support, as offense is handled better by demons for the longest time. (Summoner is some kind of mage as well)

It's not every game, yeah, but in some games it's applying quite strongly, simply due to how the meta works. Sure you can pump everything into strength or whatever, that being actually GOOD is another story. (you can do that with any mage and stat distribution though, like crpgs)
It might actually be that, the harder the game, the more likely the MC is going more into support directions, as that is by far the most useful to have around on an MC.
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>>1536855
nah. Omnislash>KOTR
you can turn anyone in FF7 into a badass mage so its better to slap KOTR on someone not named Cloud so he can use his turn to Omnislash instead. KOTR hits 12 times, Omnislash hits 15.
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>>1539338
>But in DDS you only make your life hard by choosing physical
Physical skills at mid game completely outclass magic until end game. Also, hunt skills are broken and they scale from STR, iirc.
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>>1539757
Phys requires way too much extra work for that. It's not useful. In SMT3 it somewhat is if you do hard mode TDE, but that's literally only for the last boss. If it weren't for this boss, magic would the way to go. And mind you, SMT3 magic is much weaker than DDS magic.

It's busted. Pretty sure even the 100% speedruns take magic, and they could in theory not, as they have to grind all mantra anyway.
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>>1535812
What episode of Dragon Ball is this?
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>>1537461
>Cloud is outperformed as a mage by both Vincent and Cait Sith. Vincent is generally atrocious, however, so shouldn't really be considered unless you have a hardon for him, and Cait Sith is consistently underrated by people who only breathe the "Cait Sith bad, hurr, annoying cat" memes, when he's actually probably the 4th best character in the game. Not like it matters, given how piss easy FF7 is, but still.
You REALLY need to look at their stats, Cloud literally outclasses them at the magic stat and it's a relatively wide gap for the game. Meanwhile people like Yuffie shit all over Cloud in physical damage. If he's not a mage, you're wasting your one good remaining mage because Vincent and Cait Sith are simply too much worse at it. They don't have good physicals but being less shit at magic doesn't make them good, they're just bad characters unless you're abusing limit glitches with CS.
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>>1534533
mages know lots of arcane mysterious shit
fighter knows fucking nothing and needs to be told things

player knows fucking nothing and needs to have an excuse to have the setting and plot explained to him
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Nobody would play the game if MC isn't unga bunga smashing everything.
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>>1535298
That's a very different reason, if you read a lot of mythological books you'd know that magic is very rarely like what you see in games and is often very rare or not really magic but the act of gods.
If you want mage heroes you have Merlin or Väinämöinen but the majority of magical heroes are either demi-gods like in Greek/Roman mythology (or even like Jesus) or just gods like in Scandinavian mythology. The rest are based on real human who lived like Roland or Charlemagne in the Matter of France so for obvious reasons they're not mage.
The simply human heroes you see who have magical powers are usually simply wielders of magical items like Cuchulain and his spear or all the magical swords you see all the time. I also remember Ivain being in possession of an invisibility ring for some time. Those heroes live in the real world so when they encounter magic, it's rare and impressive.
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>>1540338
5
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>>1539098
Moses would be more like a priest who can call on the miracle of his God.
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>>1539319
Magic is always divine in actual mythology. Just sometimes it is from an evil source.
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>>1541951
To clarify this the tl;dr is that mythological heroes live in the real world which isn't magical while JRPG heroes often live in a highly magical world where magic is used everywhere or at least more than in our world.
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>>1541957
Moses was a cleric/mage
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>>1534533
Maybe the Suikodens? Main characters are largely given blunt weapons and statted to be the toughest member of the back row. In plot terms, they're heavily defined by their rune magic.

Or Blue in Saga Frontier, although he's only a joint lead he is the default starting character.
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>>1535818
>Quest 64
they should make a sequel. That game would kick ass if they made it on a newer engine.



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