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>>1508547
Never forget.
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I've played a few potato crawlers over the years but haven't ever tried the etrian odyssey series. I want to see what it's all about. Is there a particular game I should play, and should I play on classic mode or story mode?
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>>1513805
Most people recommend 3 or 4 to start with, but if you want to be hardcore you can start chronologically.
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>>1513805
For a particular game, it depends on what you are looking for. 4 is the most beginner-friendly, 5 is the most modern while being the simplest, Nexus has the most content, 3 is the most unique. Each game has its strengths and weaknesses, so its easier to say the games to avoid for a first timer (EO1, Nexus, 2U).

Only the Untolds have Story Modes, and they are so radically different, you pretty much gotta play both for the full experience. Though both are pretty painful, in both writing and gameplay (they give AWFUL fucking team comps in both games, I don't know which game is worse). EO1U is easier to just stick with Classic Mode, 2U you would want to complete Story Mode once to be able to import the Fafnir Knight into Classic. Helps chop down some the inflated HP values in that game.
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>>1513818
They locked gameplay behind until 1 story mode. So, yeah. If you actually want to do all of the dungeons and bosses, story it is.
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Back to the Operation Abyss (in the new thread)
Behold! The Wizars!
Their main gimmick? They can steal your money on successful hits. That is it.
Lesser Wizars are werewolves in camo exoskeletons with bushy tales (which can be used to slap you like in "Looney Tunes"). Greater Wizars are werewolf ninjas which can attack you multiple times and sometimes dodge your attacks. Two Arch Wizars serve as minibosses with AoE's and very chunky health pool and I guess, they are tigers (?).
Then comes their boss, X-Wizar. He also steals your money on hits and does very sick dropkicks. He literally goes for "I am more powerful then you. I am going to use only 10% of my power, entertain me, scrubs!" maneuver and after getting his ass kicked he goes for "I have to go now. My planet needs me." maneuver and then flies away.
I also hate this dungeon. Not only it is a giant sewer, filled with moving tiles but you have already been here, exploring like 90% of it and now you need to find a way to the new area.
I should have known that a particular monster encounter before the door between sections of a dungeon signifies a spot on a map where you need to hug a wall to find a secret door which opens to a hallway with some rooms which you need to ignore. In the middle of that hallway you need to find another secret door which leads you to a room with loot chest and a secret teleport (which you need to find) and only then you can go and explore new area. I am just dumb.
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>>1513900
>sewer
underwater mapless spinner tiles hype
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>>1513818
>Helps chop down some the inflated HP values in that game.
Personally I felt the standard selection of classes sufficient for 2U Classic (didn't really touch story).
If anything I actually found the 2U monsters to melt really quickly compared to the other games compared to all the tools you get (especially the Boost abilities, but a carefully picked cross-class Grimoire or two can also set up really strong combos). It's more that the game has a much higher variance of party performance due to some of the subsystems and class synergies.
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>>1513955
Personally, I'd say an issue with the game is not enemy HP, but rather a very strong expectation you're using a tanking class. I ran without a Beast or a Protector, I didn't have a Medic for Overheal. Bosses hit so hard you live off the skin of you ass and most of them have minions to fuck you up. Honestly, it was pretty fun, but also really difficult. I could nuke boss HP with enough setup, but they make it really hard to get to that point.
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how is this game?
any other drpgs for ps3?
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>>1514019
It is advertised as a definite edition of PSP's "Class of Heroes 2" which was a boring and horrible game. Some problems were fixed but only some. Difficulty still all over the place and localization is still wonky in some places.
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>>1514019
If that's the one ps3 class of heroes crawler, it's shit. Like some people call experience games easy, but this is on a whole different level.
After playing for quite some hours, I thought I'd finally be in a dungeon with enemies that can deal damage (not a lot, but hey), but I dropped it when I found out you had to do 3 dungeons before that to pass it.

The game's balance is something else. Made me never bother with those games again. Was also way too clunky.
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>>1514019
>Monkey Paw
Imagine calling your company that.
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>>1514040
Better than how the localization company is called "Gaijinworks".
But that's what you get when you are the successor to Working Designs...
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>>1513805
Eo has fairly basic dungeon layouts, with side bosses (F.O.E.) roaming on the map as seperate blobs from you. If you run into one, then you have to fight it. These will usually kill you the first time you encounter them, so you have to read their movement patterns and avoid them. They only move whenever you move, so there are the FOE puzzles that make up most of EOs dungeon crawling.

Also it has really really really good 5 niggas in a row combat. Top 5% in the genre. There is only one JRPG from the top of my head that has better combat.

Progression is a bit fucky. Every game only has a few classes, so party composition is of limited depth until you unlock subclasses a dozen hours in, and the skillgrids are always a bit fucky. They got better about not doing this, but a lot of skills only give you marginal benefits for leveling them, unless you hit a powerspike level where the duration goes up.

The basics are also done well, attrition is there and makes sense, the game has an enhanced random encounter system that is not too frustrating, bossfights are good, there are cute little sidequests etc. etc.

It also has quite good atmosphere and in the newer entires quite high accesibility through many Quality of Life features.

The main "gimmick" it has, is that you draw your own map with a stylus on the lower screen. That lends naturally to a slower pace, as you take a few steps, draw a few lines, fight an enemy, heal up, take a few steps again.

The /EOG/ has this huge ass chart for starting game, but I think it is overcomplicated and too autistic.
>start at EO I Untold if you value playing a series in order.
>start at EO IV if you want to have an easier start.
>start at EO III if you want a harder start and lack of QOL does not bother you
>otherwise start at EO V for all around the best start

That is all you need to know.
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Which version of Elminage Original is better: PC or PSP?
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>>1514070
EO3 is a meme start, that's all. The broken shit enhances the game, but ultimately makes it boring.
It sucks that EO3 is one of those games where you essentially have to get information outside of the game, because it tells you nothing, which will inevitably lead to learning about stuff like the Scylla shit. (unfortunately quite required, as using any kind of new class or respec is a really big penalty in that game that'd require way too much time otherwise) And once you know Scylla, you know rng, and you know that you can do this yourself.
Given how princesses exists, it's also super easy to manip, and everyone will probably have one after reading up on classes. And maybe several sub class princesses on top, as there are plenty of neat things you can do with them.

I started with eo3. I can't recommend it. I loved the memes and the dumb stuff you can do. But that grows old eventually.
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>Finally beat Third Stratum boss
>Forgot to use the Formaldehyde
EVERY TIME ;_;

Also, jesus christ, what's the best way to catch-up my Shogun in terms of level? I swear EO4 only had you go back like 5 levels when you retrain for a new job class, what the fuck were they thinking then. Should I just ignore it for now and just use it in the inevitable New Game + Replay?
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uuh
>>>/qb/6954
I think they raked the anon who usually posts the panoramas in these threads
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>>1513917
I recognize the shapes of those rooms. I hate this dungeon.

Anyway, meet the Gatekeeper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuP7ae5CnI
Do you hate bosses which constantly summon minions? Do you hate minions summoned by bosses which have a little too much health and railgun attacks which can oneshot your backrow casters? What about constant AoE status effect spells and shuffling your party formation?
Do you know what Gatekeeper does when you destroy its minions leaving him alone? He summons a bunch of minions for his first action and then switches rows with them for his second action. Of course, this thing has a double action, it is a boss. Then it summons more and more and more minions which pester you with status effects, shuffles and railguns.
Does it count as a challenge if it is a dickish design?
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>>1514193
That’s hilarious.
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>>1514070
I so want to play these games but don't have a ds and apparently not good emulated.
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>>1514193
Idgi what is qb?
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>>1514942
/drpg/, become meguca
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>>1514112
PC is a port of the PSP game with no major changes. Either one is good.
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>>1515010
>>1514112
Adding to this, if you go for the PSP version, get the EU ISO since the US one has a lot of unfixed errors like switched race and attribute names iirc
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>>1514942
Quebec, I assume
Meme board for april fools
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>>1514193
it is a terrible place we must never visit again ;_;
>>1514432
ah man, that brings back memories. there's a similar fight in meikyuu crossblood with a dumb amount of minions in the first few rows and i had to rely entirely on my ranger's DPS (which was actually pretty great at the time)
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>>1515130
>>1515010
Got it. Thanks.
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>>1514432
I am curious about the design of this thing. Why is it so meh? It comes after the angel man? It is a downgrade. You should pimp out your bossss making each one more menacing than previous.
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>>1513900
why are they wearing Kamina glasses?
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>>1514019
The PS3 ver improves drastically over the PSP counterpart, at least according to the jap wiki. There should also be a Gamefaq forum post listing all the differences and improvements, with the biggest one being the fact that the map is always visible instead of having to bring it up every time.
I'm currently playing the first one on PSP, and while it has some serious balancing issues, it kind of gets fun late in the game.
I'm personally really enjoying the gameplay loop of exploring, filling my inventory with shit, and appraising it back at the school just to discover more shit and make more dosh.
My complaints are how unbalanced the races are, with the dragons blowing everything else out of the water with the sheer amount of HP they have (around 30 times over the race with lowest HP, not even kidding) and how every single map right and left sides are mirrored, like what's the fucking point of making me map the same map twice every time???
Also while some spell are pretty much mandatory, you can still teach all of them to a single character by changing class after learning all of them, since he/she keeps them after the change, although it does take a while to do.
Also minor complaint, why in God's name did they make your character portrait wield fixed weapons???
That said, the crafting is really, really fun and if anyone knows a game with something similar, please do tell me.
Despite how the series gets shit on, I'll still try the 2nd game out of curiosity once I finish the 1st one.
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Starting Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord on the PS1, first time playing through the series, wish me luck.
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>>1515430
based class of heroes bro. that sounds pretty rough but i do have a fetish for job changing.
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>>1515446
>the psx has crawlers
the more i know, godspeed anon
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>>1515471
Persona 1 is pretty known.
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>>1514070
Untold 1+2 and original 1+2 are pretty different, to be fair, even if you pick classic in both atmosphere and layouts even if Untold attempts many of the same beats in both overall story and callbacks. I do recommend trying out original 1+2, even if you people cheese through it quickly with something like poison, in spite its clunky nature. Outside of that 4, while likely the best start of any of these games (though 5 is a pretty decent one too), does have advantage of being started after player 1-2-3 for the simple case of the very last set of dungeons and classes being massive call-backs to the previous games.
Which I could get into 5 like I got into other EOs, but it was abit too different for me, when it is a legitimately a fantastic game.
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>>1515446
>Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord
For a moment, I thought you were talking about The Return of Werdna. I was this close to calling you mentally unstable before I realized.
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>>1514118
What are you talking about anon? I started with 3, and I actually don't understand what you are complaining about when you use the word "meme" so loosely. Scylla ain't even in EO3, and from what I remembered Stratum 4 and Automaton King were the only real roadblocks. Yes I needed outside info on EO3 but it was my first one as well.
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>>1515689
Scylla is one of the sea sailing bosses, you can actually have an easily repeatable against her that's easy to win using NPCs.
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>>1513805
>should I play on classic mode or story mode
Classic mode is kinda shit. You get locked into the same 5 classes all game, and in a game with no real multiclassing outside of the grimoire shit.
Getting to reroll my teamcomp and try different shit is what keeps me going after the first couple stratums.
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>>1515701
Oh, ok. I guess my memory gets hazy on the sea battles, didn't 100% those or even know Scylla back then
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>>1515703
You got classic and story confused, lol.
Story is the locked one, but unfortunately is required to take part in a second set of dungeons for U1 that classic natively won't gain access until you beat story. Thankfully U2's only locked content for story is one unique class.
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>>1515711
It's fine, do explore the sea abit more next time you get around. It can be fun once you get far enough into the game.
Man I wanna play EO3 again, which there was a patch that unlocks androids from start while everything else is fresh.
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>>1515717
Ah yeah, guess I did.
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>all the EO talk
Being a mainland European fan was suffering. I got the original EO1 when it came out and loved it, but then EO2 only released in the UK and EO3 didn't release in Europe at all, and at the time I didn't really have the resources or expertise to import so I reluctantly dropped the series and cursed Atlus for being retarded. It took until the 3DS era for them to stop being retarded with EU releases, but I still haven't played 2 and 3 as a result.
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>>1515446
have fun anon, I hope you keep us updated.
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>>1515749
I always emulated them, honestly, until EO4; bought every release since then. The EO3 physical I bought is broken unfortunately, it'll work flawlessly and then randomly freeze and sometimes wipe data. Might work for 5 minutes, or sometimes days, it's so random. Makes me sad since I wanted a physical copy.
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>>1515720
There are multiple mods that unlock all classes at the start on top of a bunch of other stuff
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>>1515905
Well shit, thanks anon, I see a thread on changes.
Seriously thank you.
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>>1513977
I actually ran no Protector either, (did Ronin/Highlander/Dark Hunter/War Magus/Hexer); ailments and binds helped a lot with mitigating damage. In the late game though having a couple of Protector skills through Grimoires helped for some specific fights.
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>>1515924
That's similar to what I had, but I had Landsknecht and Troubadour instead of Dark Hunter and Hexer. I really liked the team, but didn't have much in terms of ailments or binds and sometimes relied on less desirable methods of getting them. I was being super picky about classes and didn't want to use Protector, Medic or Survivalist for the second time in a row. I locked myself into Landy and Ronin, and I felt like I was compelled to use Highlander because the class was locked behind dumb story shit in Untold 1.
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>>1515288
Haha welcome back.
>>1515446
Good luck! I think that is the best version.
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>start playing dungeon crawler
>have a fresh party with like 1 skill per character, basic starting gear, a miniscule mana pool, etc
>take 2 steps into a dungeon and get a random encounter against a bunch of enemies who hit for like 1/3 of a character's HP with each hit
>can't stop them from hitting your characters because no skills
>run out of mana on your healer after casting 3 heals because lvl 1
>have to awkwardly force yourself to push through this retarded initial difficulty wall that only exists due to poor balancing
>once you level up a few times and get some items this never becomes an issue again for the next 100 hours of gameplay
40 fucking years and the top minds making games in this shit fucking genre still haven't figured out how to avoid this
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>>1516452
it's a contemporary game? interesting.
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>>1516452
What about potions?
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>going through the last stratum of EO1 on DS
>amazing atmosphere and music
>but probably the most boring stratum so far
>enemies are just bulkier recolors, but easier than before
>encounter rate is too high even with repels
>floors are annoyingly long and there are no fun gimmicks
>trying to avoid encounters left and right because they don't offer good rewards and the experience is too little
>get a lot of shit mapped
>random encounter with those fucking red flowers sleeps my whole party and everyone dies
I'm so mad. Fuck this stratum, what a shitty way to end this game. I'm just going to rush through the last floor, the rewards in the first four floors aren't good enough to make it worth exploring.
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>>1517058
damn donald has no chill

hope it works out, that sounds pretty fucking miserable
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>>1517129
It's ok, I just beat the game and totally stomped the poor final boss. Talk about anticlimactic. Still, loved the game, can't wait to play the sequels
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okay, i can finally join you all once again after beating utawarerumono 1. going to be playing zanki zero this time. i saved a bunch of stuff from the last few threads we had. the one that seemed the most salient to me was:


>You level up the non combat unique skills on all characters and the whole "survival" part of the game vanishes.
>You grab the skill that lets child characters use weapons at their max potential, and you don't have to care much about dying.

The game is annoying if you want to min max your party, but unless you're playing on the highest difficulty from the start it doesn't matter, the game is fucking piss easy. That should be the biggest complaint about it, after obtaining few skills you just dance around monsters, map floors, chug water and piss in bottles.


which is the attitude i will try to be taking, but feel free to pass additional advice/tips my way.
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>>1517209
sounds like my experience with labyrinth of galleria. surely it can only go uphill from here ;w;
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>>1517275
I got used to it and accepted that your party members are going to die so you should just use that as an opportunity to get them killed by an enemy they don't have resistance to yet.

If you're fine with losing SCORE Points you can grind the first and second area of a dungeon reliably without ever aging up (Since retreating to base does not pass the day, you just need to make sure you can dash to the 2nd area quickly enough).

I kinda like all of the mechanics in the game in hind-sight but wish they were implemented better since by the mid-game you just kinda take steps to sidestep out of them (IE; Only bringing out your main party when you encounter an enemy mob to not waste Stamina, the aforementioned retreating to base everytime to grind the 1st and 2nd areas of the dungeon without passing the day).

>Have 1 or 2 Party Members designated as your Exploration Party (Preferably can use ranged weapons) so your main Battle Party won't exhaust their Stamina and Toilet Bars
I use Minamo and Ryo for this since their Cross-Over Gene gives some survivability and also makes mapping so much easier.

For my battle party I use Haruto, Zen, Rinko, and Yuma for this (Quick Charges + Better Loot + Higher Base Damage)

For Boss Battles, I aggressively swap out Party Members for up-close and personal Charge Combos and for zoning with Yuma, Haruto, Yuma, and Ryo and Combos with Mamoru, Zen, Sachika, and Rinko (Yes, I actually prep and make sure that all my party members can effectively be able to swap in for boss battles).

the game just seems to encourage to game the hell out of its system.

IE; Forcing the Stress/Stench/Carry Weight/Lone Death/Allergy/Dead-End Shigabane in one go.

Despite all this I really still don't want to up the difficulty beyond 3.

Yuma is insanely good with ranged weapons too. Actually she was my main damage dealer by endgame. Make sure to give her the Rifle once you find it.
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>>1517058
Yeah muskoids are prob the most dangerous enemy of 5th stratum, get and ambush from them and you're pretty much dead meat.
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>>1515428
A unique helmet which you can find (unique in a way that you can't craft it). I am pretty sure majority of protagonists from Braves series used such glasses decades before Gurren Lagann.

The Second Semester has come to Operation Abyss. You get a level cap increased to 40 (I had a level cap?) and unlock a new class: Conjurer (misleading name, it is a monster tamer).
Plot happens involving suicide belts, government officials being paranoid assholes and a group of policeman assaulting your plump black skinned teacher who loves geishas and adorably yells "Feck Yuu" at the policemen who beating him.
It also signifies the introduction of new status ailment "Code Breaker", which is a cybercancer. It removes all your equipment and class levels, lowers your HP to 30-40 and you can't use your spells, skills and items. You have a train ride section first while your party afflicted by it. You just go in a straight line through the train and fight drones while slapping them for 1-2 damage. It is unnecessary long section where you just mash autobattle for 10 minutes.
You would think that it is a plot device but the shop got a consumable item used for blocking "Break" so, I guess late game bosses are going to use it in a fights?
The first new dungeon, Haunted Hospital, is kind of nice. The building has four floors, has straightforward layout which makes it feel like normal people build it and no secret doors/switches/teleporters in sight. It has a wonky puzzle where you look for ghost's parts. You can't explore the whole dungeon, collect them all and then turn them all at once. You need to talk to the ghost, he says where the part is, you find it, you return it, he says where the next one. I am not a programmer, but I am sure it can be fixed very easily.
And I was right, wizars can be tigers too.
The next dungeon features enemies with level ~25. Time for the training montage and getting proper equipment.
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>>1517352
party member 1 looks pretty sick.
>It is unnecessary long section where you just mash autobattle for 10 minutes.
lol. how awful.
>Haunted Hospital
that place sure was secret door heaven in meikyuu crossblood
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>>1517352
Enemy level doesn't mean you need to grind. It's totally normal to be "underleveled". In Babel endgame is around mid thirties enemies, and you can beat the main game pretty comfortably below 30. Heck even some optional area with lvl 50+ enemies isn't a problem for mid twenties.

Keep in mind enemy level is just saying how strong the enemy is among the same enemy type. If an enemy isn't very dangerous, double the level won't do them much. On the flipside, if an enemy is dangerous, it can be a low level and still screw you.
Enemy level in Experience games cause quite a bit of confusion, because some people just get surprised. Have seen people complain about how a lvl 10 enemy wasp was super harmless, yet a lvl 5 "something else" almost killed them. You can't compare levels of different enemies.
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Found this.
https://itch.io/jam/dcjam2021

Anyone taking part? Will you check out the shit made here?
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>>1517516
nice find!
nah, definitely not taking part but it might be fun to scour some submissions.
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>>1517275
>>1517292
oh yeah, really annoying some mechanics and drops are gatekeeped at Difficulty V which just has a retarded difficulty jump from IV. I'm already at the 6th chapter but I took a hiatus to play Etrian 3 because I was just at a roadblock, and I'm waiting for a bud of mine to get on my level.

Also wtf I swear I wrote that exact same paragraph weeks ago.
>>
>Want to make my own DRPG because there's still no non-edgy DRPG that takes place in a modern/urban setting
>Don't really have anything new to offer to the genre
>Don't really have any art or music skills
>Don't really have any time on top of my wagiework
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>>1517785
RPG Maker MV with MV3D plugin. It is not a rocket science.
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>>1517785
Just do it, it's fun. Even if you never finish it, throw something on the canvas, it might inspire others.
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>>1517785
Hey now, anon, if experience can shit out drpgs while reusing same assets and prebuilt areas then so can you.
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>>1517771
Pretty sure IV has access to all the rare drops, V should be technically worse, because it changes some spawns to bosses(that don't drop anything worthwhile). Bigger problem lies in that the "rare" crafting items drop only from mobs that are present in a single floor/room in a dungeon (black pigs/golden monkeys/reversed lizard)
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>>1517785
Don't worry about adding anything new to the genre. Just make something you'd want to play. Personally, I'm just trying to make a game with crazy and fun classes, fun to explore dungeons and a horror based atmosphere.
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>>1517785
>DRPG that takes place in a modern/urban setting
Are there any DRPGs in an urban setting at all?
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>>1517839
While they're corrupted by horror fairytale contraptions, most dungeons in Mary Skelter are otherwise regular urban settings such as City Streets, Downtown, Station Grounds, Metropolitan Office and so on.
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>>1517839
7th Dragon 2020 maybe?
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Absolutely shameless.
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>>1517857
Also, your base of operations is a liberated town district in the first game and a derelict underground metro station in the second.
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>>1517839
Plenty. From Persona, to Seventh Dragon 2020, to Operation Abyss/Babel. Japan likes that setting. Of course, you won't have all dungeons be "urban". If the world isn't essentially completely fucked (seventh dragon 2020), you usually have dungeons in areas people don't go usual. Sewers. Abandoned buildings. You know.
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>>1517893
>you usually have dungeons in areas people don't go usual
Wizardry 4 but urban
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Any games where the places you explore aren't just random labyrinths, but rather actually well-designed places? Like an open village or something.
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>play sapphire
>get elven priestess
>she is fucking mage
oh wow
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>>1517945
not really sure what you're asking because it sounds pretty common. Would shin megami tensei qualify?
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I would rather they give me an option to just disable event CGs altogether than to have this shit keep happening.
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>>1517292
>(IE; Only bringing out your main party when you encounter an enemy mob to not waste Stamina
this is something I never bothered to do
because I switched to difficulty 5 a lot I had too much food so I'd just pack a shitload of jerky/steaks and some piss bottles and leave the combat group out all the time
even the backups had some combat investment so I'd just swap them out as long as I had inventory space to spare until my group absolutely couldn't go any further, then retreat
higher difficulties start to really penalize retreating though so be prepared to walk back sometimes

I wish more of the shigabane had general stat bonuses, the very specific enemy/damage type ones often don't feel rewarding to pick up because they're too situational
>>
>>1518088
It'd be better if the shikabane shit didn't exist. Dying being good, yet REALLY fucking annoying (character's inventory gone, child again and so on) is a hilariously awful combination.

Zanki Zero is one of those games where you might forgive it some thing should you ever make it past the first few chapters. But until then it's a 0/10. Difficulty 1 exists for good reason. I would've rather they fixed the problems instead of that lazy way out, but alas.
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>>1517445
Well I can beat the enemies there, if I nuke them with magic or they don't use their instant kill moves in the first round. I just want better equipment which doesn't look like a Halloween costumes. Only Knight looks good so far, he has this Kamen Rider helmet and plate armor with drills on pauldrons.
Also, what kind of monsters you expect to find on a cemetery?
How about tanks? Or Statue of Liberty?
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>>1518145
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>>1517324
What can be done to avoid this in the first Etrian? I don't remember there being any anti-sleep accessories/armor at that point. Was there any anti-sleep spell I could have casted with Go First? (or whatever the Survivalist skill was called, the one that makes another character go first in battle).
>>
>>1518343
Survivalists have skills that increase your party's rate of getting preemptive attacks, which can be useful but definitely not a first priority.
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>>1517871
Are there any REAL Wizardry games available for smartphones? Excluding emulators, of course.
I know they announced Wizardry VA last year, but nothing else.
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Perhaps the dumbest part of this is that samurai's gimmick is that they dual-wield weapons and Mai's original portrait reflects this by giving her two swords, but the redesign only gives her one.
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>>1517275
i first tried this game in 2018 when my japanese was garbage but had to shelve it. since then, it's been one of my greatest curiosities... especially due to the intro to the game.

i think as far as dungeon aesthetics go, this might be one of the most attractive i've ever seen. it is just immediately immersive in both sight and sound, and the sense of there being a 'grid' is lost entirely. as you walk around the town you can hear wind blowing through the buildings, cicadas calling, or the sound of the sea as you approach.

the personalities are immediately charming and strange. most notable are the showa era(?) ExtendTV hosts, with Shou being voiced by Fieza and Mirai by Son Goku.

anyway this is a fantastic breath of fresh air coming off my last game so i'm excited to see what's in store.

>>1517771
>wtf I swear I wrote that exact same paragraph-
you probably did, i said i reposted a bunch of advice from our last few threads kek
>>1517883
sick art
>>1518087
sure is jarring
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>>1518988
some of those aforementioned sights
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>>1518145
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>>1519002
Yeah, the map design and aesthetic is one of my favorites.
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>>1518962
to be fair class identification is much less important in sapphire wings, but yeah it's a little strange.
>>
Any recommendations for my first drpg? Do I go with Wizardry games?
>>
>>1518962
Dual wielding SUCKS in that game. That's probably more of a meta change than anything else. You'd never actually let her have two weapons in the previous versions.

Reason?
-You need a lot of agi to not have a penalty, and str to actually make this work to begin with. There are no ways to gets stats other than main level though, and a Samurai makes arguably better use out of luck than too much agi. If you get free stats like in Operation Babel through Unity, it's different, but here it's way too costly.
-One handed weapons aren't great, damage and whatnot. This is even worse with multihit weapons, which a Samurai usually utilizes. The balance in the game was very weird in that 1hit weapons would usually have more than twice the power of a 2hit weapon. Because def reduces damage by a flat amount (i.e. 30 def= 30 less damage), 2hit weapons are also double fucked.

In other words, even a Samurai just uses 2h weapons. It's also a reason why Sam/Fig is an idea, so you have more possibilities.
>>
>>1519129
dual wielding is kind of always a little awkward in the experience games. usually because you can eventually dual-wield 2handers, but until then you are suboptimally allocating stats into AGI and feeling kind of sad about it. although, it's still nice to have a character that can trigger a bunch of status ailments with splash damage.
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>>1519127
depends where your interests lie anon.
classic? contemporary? western? eastern?
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>>1519143
> usually because you can eventually dual-wield 2handers
That's a theory. In practice you tend to never be at that level, as you usually need 40 or something obscene, while you beat the games ~10 levels below that.
>>
>>1519184
yeah, it's pretty much a post-game thing only unfortunately.
>>
>>1519157
I'm coming off the SaGa games, which I guess is a bit of a leap. I like the openess, experimental nature, and difficulty (relative to your usual jrpg). Maybe that'll help point me in the right direction?

Something more contemporary would be nice, where I'm not fighting with the UI
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>>1519236
NTA High difficulty and good UI puts you into Etrian Odyssey V. Maybe you can even yolo directly into Nexus, depite that being usually a bad idea, since if you come from SaGa getting swarmed with 25 classes or so and playing a game that barely has a story will not even bother you.
Apart from that there is not really anything with how difficulty and good UI.

Even coming from SaGa I don't think recommending vastly unusual dungeon crawlers is a good idea. One can only appreciate how a genre gets bent when one knows how it ticks in the first place. So after Etrian Odyssey I recommend trying to get either into the Experience games (for modern Wiz lites) or into Wizardry.

>>1517529
The dude giving out free copies as a price is cool. His game is very fast and very easy, but a fun romp. Decent babbys first blobber for MM style overworld crawlers, but has problems with lacking depth

https://store.steampowered.com/app/873890/Legends_of_Amberland_The_Forgotten_Crown/

>>1517785
Maybe you can hit some peeps in the indie blobber scene up and either borrow a module or commission a piece?
Apart from the gamejam half of the rpgcodex is programming blobbers themselves, Cryptrat is a nice lad and maybe can give you some tips on where to start. The second game he is working on might even be exactly what you are looking for.

https://cryptrat.itch.io/tohellwithguns
https://cryptrat.itch.io/note-of-the-outskirts
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>>1519236
>contemporary
sure, let's start there
>experimental nature
i'm guessing you don't have access to it but i think demon gaze 1 is one of the best in this regard. while there is an emphasis on a party build, there is a secondary level of flexibility provided by means of artifacts which grant any user a skill of another class, allowing for some pretty fucking crazy builds like 6 archer or 6 mage if you even want. demon gaze 2 however is much less liberating.
>difficulty
i think most here will point you in the direction of etrian odyssey, although if it's your first drpg you may want to start with an easier one like 3 or 4. a semi-difficult game i finished recently was stranger of sword city revisited. most of the game comes down planning out job changes and properly juggling buffs in combat. there is also permadeath if you aren't careful. version 1.05 on GoG has windows 7 support and might be worth a shot.
>openness
i think i'd point to labyrinth of refrain for this one, mainly because i think the exploration in this game is pretty damn satisfying. although, for this game story is certainly the biggest appeal overall. here, every unit in your party is actually a legion of units where you can essentially have up to 40 individually itemized members contributing in battle. the make-up of those legions is determined by 'covens' which you will find throughout the dungeons (although most of them end up being worthless). it is a surface level complex game that eventually boils down to some pretty simple tactics, but i still think it's one of the best in the genre.
>>
>>1519127
I think Etriam nails the most, the best.
I'm presonally very keen on the first two, which to me have the most soul, but holy shit are they dated.
Not sure how the emulation of remakes goes, but I'd suggest playing them. For extra nostalgia avoid using grimoires.
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>>1519281
>NTA High difficulty and good UI puts you into Etrian Odyssey V. Maybe you can even yolo directly into Nexus, depite that being usually a bad idea, since if you come from SaGa getting swarmed with 25 classes or so and playing a game that barely has a story will not even bother you.
>Apart from that there is not really anything with how difficulty and good UI.
>Even coming from SaGa I don't think recommending vastly unusual dungeon crawlers is a good idea. One can only appreciate how a genre gets bent when one knows how it ticks in the first place. So after Etrian Odyssey I recommend trying to get either into the Experience games (for modern Wiz lites) or into Wizardry.
Thank you for your wise words fellow anon, my new journey awaits me!
>>
>>1519309
forgot to link you in my thanks too, appreciate the time you both took to give me an introduction tailored for me
>>
>>1519002
gotta say, playing this game makes me really curious about the developer Lancarse. i know they're a third party studio that tends to work with the likes of Atlus (EO 1/2, P:Q2) but they developed this one by themselves. similarly, there are the Lost Heroes games which I know next to nothing about other than there are two of them and they can both be played on the 3ds.
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Never heard of this until today. Dragon Master Silk. Any hope for a translation patch?
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>>1520372
Well, if Blue Submarine game can get a translation patch then why not this game too?
>>
>>1517785
>Don't really have anything new to offer to the genre
There's no need for that. You just have to make something players want more of but they don't have.
>>
>>1520461
yeah at this rate it's like maybe one or two notable games a year, which is a shame
>>
just got soul transfer in labyrinth of refrain. should i be worried about using that until post-game?
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>>1520553
yeah, i beat the main story without doing a soul transfer. definitely becomes more of a thing in post-game
>>
>>1519236
If you like Saga, check out Genius of Sappheiros. It's Saga inspired, removes all the shit that holds Saga back, and is essentially a dungeon crawler (though looks like normal jrpgs). You are going through stages linearly, but the dungeon designs are fun, and the game isn't easy.
Most of all though, it essentially perfects the Saga battle system, without the dumb shit of the original Series. Characters learn their core abilities with leveling, and yes there are levels though no real level grind (not worth). You still have saga esque weapon skills, but it's easier to see what you should do there, as you have "skill trees" you can freely swap around points in. I think in general you can do what you want, as characters generally learn stuff if you use the weapon, just in different orders.

What is really neat about the game is how every piece of equip is unique. If it's craftable, you can only do it once. This puts a lot of value on literally everything you find, or get as a drop. Meaning, you better look around the areas and don't miss chests. Some are hidden. Character skilltrees can also be readjusted whenever you want.

If you go in, just remember one thing: Don't ignore characters. Use everyone equally. Eventually you'll be glad you did that. You get 12 characters for a reason.
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>>1517292
>If you're fine with losing SCORE Points you can grind the first and second area of a dungeon reliably without ever aging up (Since retreating to base does not pass the day, you just need to make sure you can dash to the 2nd area quickly enough).
is this intended? i'm in the first dungeon and every time i enter the dungeon or change elevations a day passes. maybe its only this way on the vita?
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>>1520872
I don't know the exact mechanics but I played on Vita too and I can at least say that running to the next floor quickly enough will avoid aging
pretty much exclusive to after you've opened up the shortcuts
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>>1520899
ah makes sense, guessing the dungeon entry point still ages you since i accidentally turned around to grab something after immediately entering and aged myself like a genius.
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>>1520899
>pic related
>working is for suckers
Based NEET?
>>
Whay do i do in esselgard i am stuck after bringing that fey girl there us nowhere to go
,doors are either locked or unreachable because holes and no fly spell ?
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>>1521405
Look for other doors you can open. Or look for holes on the top floor you can jump down from.
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>>1514070
>played Etrian IV 3 years ago and loved it so much I bought EOU1, EOU2, III, V, and Nexus
>never played any of them
Fuck it, it's time. I was gonna replay FF4 but I gotta do it.
>>
>>1521418
i dont see any unlocked doors or holes to fall trough
>>
Can't decide if I should go for the EO1 post game or just jump directly to EO2. I've heard it's not exactly fun.
>>
>>1521752
The sixth stratum? It's been over a decade but I remember there being some bullshit involved, mostly with pitfall traps. I still finished it, don't remember it being too frustrating.
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>>1521526
Unless you literally want to look it up, the only help is: "look once more". It's not really a particularly special dungeon as far as I remember, just really fucking big. I'd give you a hint, but the dungeon is big and unfortunately I don't remember when you get the new character during it and what's the next step.
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>>1521752
>I've heard it's not exactly fun.
and neither is EO2 so just pick ur poison, I guess.
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>>1521752
Just do it until you get fed up.
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>18 hours into SoSW
>Finally get a method to revive party members
>A single item that can revive a character to 1HP outside of battle one time
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>>1521862
Welcome to wizardry and its inspired friends. Even dragon quest isn't giving you shit until midgame, and then it's a 50% chance with 1hp or something silly. Revival items? Yeah sure, around endgame the game graces you with a few, but forget about buying them. So better have some kazings handy for the kathwacks. (don't you like dragon quest ability names?)

Just don't die. (lul)
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>>1522009
I really like this mechanic, it makes the player focus on keeping their characters alive instead of just "lol I'll revive them with this cheap spell". And it's also really satisfying when you get a guaranteed revival spell later on.
>>
>>1521862
this isnt ff where phoenix downs lays everywhere
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>>1522030
That would make sense if it wasn't in a game loaded with OHKO attacks that will affect you even when guarding / defending someone else. Effectively it means those are the only things that ever kill you and every time it happens you have to warp back to town and then go back in.
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>>1521783
Why isn't EO2 fun? Don't do this to me, anon.
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>>1522138
If you liked 1 you'll like 2, simple as.
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>>1522138
You play EO1, it's rough around the edges, has quite a bit of jank, a bit simplistic skillwise but fun. Then you play EO2. Half of the game is a trap. That skill sounds good? Nope, sucks balls. Wanted to pick this class for physical damage? Nope, they do absolutely no damage. That's a trap, that's a trap, pretty much everything in that game is a trap.
>>
>>1522174
Sounds like you're just bad.
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>>1522227
Let's say you want to make a party. Landskecht sounds good, a nice physical damage dealer. Oh wait, they have the worst offensive skills in the entire game and almost every class out damages them. A frontline Medic is less of a joke than them. Maybe you want an Alchemist. Wait, never mind, they also suck balls. Survivalist? Pretty much just vending machines. Beasts? The less said about them the better. And that's just the classes. You won't know any of this blind, you go in thinking your party will be okay just to find out these classes suck shit. Even the worse classes in the first game like Ronin still didn't feel like garbage to use.
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>>1522276
So it's just a metagaming issue? Balance isn't perfect, yeah.
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>>1522138
what >>1522174 said, also no exp. from FOEs
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>>1522302
Balance being imperfect is one thing. The first game had bullshit like Immunize and Survivalists, but you could use classes that weren't godly and they could pull their weight. EO2 basically just nerfed the shit out of a lot of classes so they feel bad to use.
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well that was cool
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>>1522048
I don't remember saviors doing anything like this as far as I played it, or rather the psp version. The only ohko move I remember was after clearing the castle that one boss. But after the bugged zombie dragon before (dealing a 0 too much damage), that fight was a freakin' cakewalk.
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>>1522408
after an unfortunate death or two the gang is given the true purpose of the extend machine and it's ability to clone fallen party members by means of the d-pads that are surgically attached to their abdomens. while reborn as children, internally they retain all of their adult experiences.
>>
>>1522439
Well that's how this version is. The only time I've ever gotten a game over so far was against Charon whose whole thing is instant kill attacks, and aside from that pretty much any time someone dies it's because they got OHKO'd by an instant kill effect or an enemy crit that did all their HP at once. And the game is so easy to manage that there's no reason to die otherwise outside of simple negligence.
I think I'll probably just drop it since it's by far the most dull of all of Experience's games I've played.
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>>1522452
after instructions to seek out parts to enhance the extend machine, the gang heads back to the place of the crime - mashiro garden tower.

only a few steps into the premises, minamo and mamoru are agonizingly aged against their will. as it turns out, these clone bodies everyone inhabits only can exist for 13 days during which they will encounter an entire aging cycle. by collecting parts to upgrade the extend machine, this limit can be extended.

as they explore haruto's (protag) former workplace, they encounter broadcasts that seem to be hidden camera footage of his employment at the company.
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>>1522482
haruto was a promising young hire at the hands of a shitter of a boss whose only real motivation is to appease their elderly fanbase. despite this, haruto pursued a story concerning the blight of impoverished single mothers. while photos were taken, it was promised that they would be presented in total anonymity.

this of course didn't fly with the boss, who secretly ran a full body photo of the big titty mom against haruto's will. the result of which, brought the domestically violent former husband to her doorstep and an unfortunate death.

the shitstorm that ensued after the death caused by the running of this story resulted in haruto's termination. the guilt and shame of this entire debacle spurred haruto to suicide.

while exploring the ruins of this workplace the truth of the photo's origin is revealed, and the corrupted body of the creature behind it still remains. (and completely fucked my shit up on first attempt)
>>
>>1522582
Short game, that's too bad.
>>
>>1522479
You might just do something wrong. Your tank especially shouldn't just go down. She could even live the 10 times damage bugged zombie dragon, with a little luck.
And I really had no issues with anything dying randomly. There might be a counter you aren't thinking off. The only problem I've ever had is actually damage from spellcasters.

Which difficulty do you play on? If you play on a very high one, lower it to normal. Everything past normal is what they added later and can easily get very grindy.
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>>1522482
>poster in bottom left
Does the game take place in the same universe as the Danganronpa games or is that just a sneaky reference?
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>>1522593
TRULY. no i feel stupid now after picking up the game again today. he just stays rooted the entire time and you can cheese him by charging up an attack, landing it, and going back into cover.
>>1522712
i'm hardly into game but yeah i think it was just a cheeky reference, i wouldn't be surprised though.
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>>1522712
Only a reference but having savefiles from dangan and looking at the posters increases your chance at meeting a special enemy
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>>1522712
Spike Chunsoft can't function without referencing Dangit Ron Paul in every game they make.
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>>1522791
kek, someday i will play this. they sure have no issue throwing up 70% off sales on the eshop for it all the time.
>>
>>1522800
I liked it a lot, doesn't reach the heights of 999 and VLR but it's much better than ZTD. Its standard asking price is ridiculous though, that's for sure. I got it when it was 60% off for 24€, which I feel is much more appropriate value for it.
>>
I played EO1 when it came out, but never finished it. I tried it again some years ago, but never finished it. Now I'm trying it again, maybe I'll finish it and get to the sequels
Can one play this game without reading guides and not cripple your party build with bad skill choices?
>>
is moero crystal better than moero chronicle?
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>>1523277
Yes, but not to the extent that you're going to really like it if you disliked Chronicle.
>>
>>1523277
from the little i played of both, i'd say yes.
but get moero crystal h on the switch if you can since it has the auto-map movement feature that other versions do not.
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>>1523286
Crystal never came to PC or other systems but the Switch in the west, so I guess you mean Chronicle.
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>>1523291
nah i meant crystal, but that's because i play shit in jp. i assumed there was a ps4 version but there's only the vita i guess rip
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any protips on farming in zanki zero?

out of curiosity i saved and bumped the difficulty to max and tried to run around the first dungeon but i only encountered like a single goat. are the spawns time based or what?
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>>1523436
It's based on time, when you unlock the bedrooms, you can just skip days and grind stuff. Investing in harvesting skills when you're able to craft the tools is a good idea, it really streamlines the grind for some materials(and is needed for the endgame ones)
>>
>>1523463
ah nice, looking forward to it.
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>>1523436
Don't bother going to max difficulty off the bat. The HP curve means you'll barely make progress. Start on 3 for a bit.
Also pay attention to the Shrine on the home island. It's fortunes can trigger events.
>>
paging
>>1517058
to help
>>1523114
desu
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Play his games.
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>>1523760
Google doesn't really help me when I search for "faceless dude dungeon crawler". It recommends a 10 year old video about the greatest ten dungeon crawlers though, including Demon Souls, Torchlight.. and probably 8 other completely unrelated games to dungeon crawlers.

I'm a little sad now.
>>
>>1523947
Because "dungeon crawler" has become a meaningless phrase, just like "rogue-like".
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>>1524161
Can we not argue about semantics, please?
If we are going that route, more than half of games discussed on this board going to lose their RPG genre tag because having levels, stats and party doesn't make your game an RPG.
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>>1524299
Get out Josh Sawyer, those are absolutely rpgs.

>>1523760
Isn't Brandish a Mystery dungeon? These anons will probably be more interested in it.
>>1498902
>>
>>1520907
>>1520872
you need to leave using the retreat option and not through the door.

Entering the first floor of a dungeon should not pass the day but I often exclusively just use the menu as well to enter dungeons so maybe that's an oversight.
>>
>See Death Mark
>Love the aesthetic and style
>It's not actually a DRPG
Fuck this. I can't wait for Undernauts Labyrinth of the Yomi.
>>
is it weird that i'm kind of really enjoying zanki zero at the moment?

>>1524477
spirit hunter NG is also part of that series and about 2x long
>>1524473
yeah for sure. i've been doing some 'hunting' runs lately and it feels like i'm playing escape from tarkov. just, sprinting through the dungeon looting all the fixed locations... tagging any shit i see along the way. it's sort of addicting, for now anyway.
>>
>>1524494
>spirit hunter NG is also part of that series and about 2x long
Oh cool, yeah I was surprised how short Death Mark was, I'll give it that go maybe after I finish Famicom Detective Club Part 2.

>Zanki Zero
Yeah, it gets kinda frustrating though when you enter a floor and none of the enemies you're expecting are there. At least from the thread I learned that I shouldn't need to force myself to play on Difficulty V (Because holy shit some of the boss monsters require you to have twitch reflexes and maximum attention to not get accidentally wiped).
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>>1524501
the mechanical nature and speed of this game really sets it apart from the typical strafe stabbing real-time crawlers. there are so many little things i'm appreciating about this game, but i'm going to try to hold my tongue until i've gotten a couple dungeons deeper.

going through my screenshots, i just noticed that when i fought the first dungeon boss i had accidentally destroyed both his chair and his tie during the fight, rendering him useless. the tie had an achievement for it as well. i love that all of that is even a thing.
>>
>>1524299
That is not arguing about semantics, have you tried to search for Dungeon Crawlers or Roguelikes on steam and find actual Dungeon Crawlers or Roguelikes? 1 in 30 if you are lucky.
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>>1521405
This is quite the late reply, but...
>Pyros carried the Ney girl outside the fortress. We should probably go talk to him.
>The Ney girl threatened us. We barely escaped with our lives, but only because Merlin sacrificed herself to save us.
>Rondaer can't move for a while. For now, Pyros has decided to defend the fort for us.
At this point, I think you need to head to Fortress 1F - Southeast X8 Y4 so the skeleton captain can debrief you on Tulip's location, then you can access X11 and Y12 in the upper right to fight Charon and recruit Tulip.
>We tried to enter the dueling grounds, but some kind of magical breath stopped us. I may need to take Tulip with me in order to proceed.
This is when you bring her along from the northeast entrance down to the center of Fortress Basement - Northwest, which is blocked with a password: Loyalty.

>>1522640
Not that guy, but I felt the same about Near Death being inflicted occasionally on Normal difficulty (which is the only difficulty aside from Easy).
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/297304-saviors-of-sapphire-wings-and-stranger-of-sword-city/79366566
Paladins aren't immune to Near Death, a status ailment, until Lv. 24 via Secret Defense, and I think I was high 10s/low 20s at Esselgard. I guess you were RNG blessed?
>>
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>>1524739
I barely got past lvl 20 quite a bit past the castle. (aside of MC, because no dual class)
That said, I do value luck and vit on a tank. But I doubt that's it. There's also spells that help protect, notably bioguard. But I doubt I spammed that all the time during normal encounters.

I have more the feeling, they might have made hard mode to normal mode for whatever reason. How tanky are bosses? On the old normal mode, you could kill rush most things fairly reliably. The dragon zombie at the end of the castle for example had about 1800hp. (otherwise completely unwinnable with the bug) Piros afterwards a mere ~1000. If those values are more than twice as high, it could be that they did something weird with the difficulties. Piros also killed one of my characters, but I mean.. he gets only a few turns with those hp. Not the tank mind you.

If that's not it, it might also be equipment effects, or really just the luck stat. Luck is arguably the most important stat once you get to ~midgame in these games, as far as I'm concerned. Almost every class makes use out of it.
That said, have a screen of her. Also an example of a weapon that protects against spells and skills, though to be honest, I have no idea how much that all influences. But yeah, vit and luck.
>>
>>1524793
>Luck
Ah, that's probably it and was mentioned in that thread. I dumped all my points into a single primary stat, while I've heard of some stat benchmarks that didn't cover Luck.
>VIT 15 for everyone
>AGI 25 for eventual dual-wielders
>STR 15 for physical attackers, 15 INT/PIE for casters, AGI/LUC for rogues
Bosses don't take too long with 3 characters doing Concentrate + Rush/Tri-Slash spam, but not knowing Luck's importance felt like I could only reload because the revival items are endgame.
>>
>>1524299
>having levels, stats and party doesn't make your game an RPG
?????
>>
>>1524810
I just checked the JP wiki for the psp version once more, and it indeed mentions that Luck influences resistance to ailments, especially instant kill.
>ステータス異常(主に急所攻撃)を防ぐ確率
Or well, "vital hit" or however you want to translate it.

Personally I like 12 vit for everyone, and not to bother with dual wield in this particular game. Luck is also important for Fighters because it influences damage rolls. If you have 133-243 damage as my Paladin there, you are actually better off having luck than more strength, as it does so much more than just raise the damage on average.

Interesting if Luck really has such an impact. Because I really gave all my frontliners a lot of that, as, in my opinion, it's just too good to not to. The reason my Paladin has it is also the subclass. Ranger. Parry. But that's just a theory, that never becomes relevant, due to level requirements. I remember Demon Gaze where my Paladin had parry equipped and got never hit again. (again high vit and luck, I already did it back then, even though it was my first crawler of this style)
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>>1513744
Switch Sapphire wings/ stranger of the sword city revisited has finally been uploaded 9275836dc1deaa028d2468a4357202917b02b14d
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>>1524739
yeah i already found a way
>beat the charon once
>beat the dragon
>got the fairy.
>had to go back for poplog cause fuck you
will do food storage charon later
>>
>>1524810
>rogues
Why experience game don't have any?
Dungeon crawlin games without thieves
fuck you ranger and ninja you dont count
>>
https://www.spoiler.jp/game/aotuba/index.php?%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A8%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%2F%E6%98%9F%E3%81%AE%E6%9D%96
I can't figure out which area fragment 6 is meant to be. I've checked X06Y09 in every area available but it wasn't in any of them, which makes me figure that it must be in the Isle Era Layer - Hidden Area map, but I can't get to that location without opening the door with a password that I have no idea what the answer is.
>>
>>1523760
Brandish PSP is one of my favourite Falcom games. But I can't stomach the faux-rotation of the older entries. Sucks they didn't remake the rest of them.

>>1524366
>Isn't Brandish a Mystery dungeon?
No, it has a fixed dungeon.
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>>1525281
are you playing the JP version? if so, yes the 6th fragment is on that layer and it is behind the door at X06X06. the name of the earth guardian is オブリス
>>
i dislike this genre as much as action rpgs so many pointless trash mob fights
fuck this grindfest
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>>1522582
the fight done proper
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>>1525891
the gang is left in the dark for a while after the resolution of the first stage before a broadcast finally appears. they are instructed to check out the heavily forested island that has drawn near to the mainland. this time you are in control of Zen.

upon arrival, Rinko comes to the realization that it is the Saruyama Treehouse Village, an amusement type attraction spot. like the last dungeon, it was also located Mashiro City before the 'end of the world'.

one of the new enemy types here, a monkey, can inflict poison which i have no way to cure currently is guaranteed to kill anyone who receives it.
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>>1525969
like the last dungeon, they encounter hidden camera footage of someone's life on television sets within forest. this time, it's Zen's and he's not thrilled about it.

he attempts to go it alone so that the others won't know his dank meme past, but it is futile. it turns out that every television in the forest broadcasts the same feed and the rest of the team sees it anyway.

reluctantly, he rejoins the team. they delve deeper into the treehouse itself and discover puzzles, arrow traps, and encounter charging boars that kill several party members due to me being shit at video games.
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>>1526015
as a boy, Zen's and his family came to stay at his grandparent's farm. one day during his stay, his father sends him on an errand to bring his mother. unfortunately, he finds her having sex with his grandfather instead (which he perceives as monkeys in his adolescence). he overhears them talking and comes to learn that his real father is actually his brother, and his real father is actually this rapey grandpa.

during the funeral of his grandmother, this familial confusion finally takes a toll on him and he starts to becomes a delinquent, blackmailing his mother for money and becomes estranged from the family.

around this time, his successful brother brings home his fiancee whose stubbornness breaks through to Zen, and he opens up to her. with her help, he beings to go to college and study agriculture.

all was going well until one day his grandfather had called home for his mother to do an errand. Zen went instead and encounters rapey grandpa about to rape the fiancee. it turns out this grandpa has been extorting the women of the family for sex as debt payment for years. in a fit of rage, he tries to kill him but the fiancee shields the blow, breaking her arm.

Zen is framed by the granpa for attempting to rape the finacee and is exiled from the family. the fiancee is grateful that he did not divulge the secret and he departs in search of farmwork elsewhere.
>>
>>1522640
It's basically all this shit, or sometimes someone in the back row getting OHKO'd by enemy AOE attacks that the tank failed to guard. I don't think that zombie dragon even killed anyone.
>Which difficulty do you play on? If you play on a very high one, lower it to normal. Everything past normal is what they added later and can easily get very grindy.
There are only Normal and Easy difficulties. I'm playing on Normal.
>>
>>1526294
be sure to carefully juggle union skills if you aren't already
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does anyone know if these 2 are good? also if they are decent for a dungeon rpg newfag
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>>1526811
Based on discussions in the previous threads, Sapphire Wings sucks and Sword City is decent. They're also very difficulty and have low production value. If you are on PC, you may consider Bard's Tale 4, Grimrock, or Zanki Zero.
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So wait, how does this work if you played as a female protagonist?
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>>1526993
they're slightly altered apparently based on gender
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>>1526993
How should i build each class? i don't want to fuck up their stats.
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>>1527281
if you're playing sapphire wings, you can respec stats/change classes whenever you like, but this is what i went with.

if you're playing stranger of sword city, that's a bit more of a complex matter.
>>
Would it be worth it to retire my level 40 medic in Etrian Odyssey 4 so I can have an Arcanist or should I just stick with the medic till endgame>
>>
>>1527571
They're both solid classes. Just go with whatever sounds more fun. It's not too hard of a game and any semi-sensible party is fine unless you're going after the full power version of the true last boss, in which case you need a team specifically made to kill him and/or massive amounts of equipment farming.
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>>1527313
>avant-garde
>rearguard
How hard could it be to just say "front" and "back"? Maybe "frontline" and "backline"? Do people really have to be this pretentious?
>>
>>1527962
it's google translate from jp wiki
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>>1527970
What kind of terms are Japanese using when "avant-garde" is selected as a "correct" translation? Don't tell me English is so lacking that machine translation actually has to use French terms.
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>>1527977
it's just 前衛 and 後衛 which is like vangard (advance guard) and rearguard. it's only 'pretentious' because of how it is translated but in reality it's just the "front" and "back" kanjis in next to the kanji for "defense"
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>>1527989
>it's only 'pretentious' because of how it is translated
And then they tell me AI might take over the world one day.
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>>1527993
well, i sure hope it isn't google translate. deepl is much better in that regard.
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>>1526294
We discussed it by now, and came to the conclusion, that it's most likely a lack of luck, among possibly some other things.

And if the zombie dragon doesn't kill anyone, that's normal and just means it's not bugged again. It dealt 500 damage per attack, with the breath dealing about the same if not more to everyone at max HP in the buggy state on Psp (2 actions per turn, too). You had to try until it idled enough and only single targeted characters that are not the mage or attackers, so you can burst it down within a few turns. Didn't take THAT long actually. It was definitely not intended like that though.
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>>1527313
I'd still recommend to make MC a support though. Union is too good to skimp on, if you ask me at least.
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The purpose of armor is to protect the user from damage, right?
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>>1528173
It's been different for girls in rpgs since forever. The more skin = the more defense. If you want to force an explanation, it's because they are so much more aware of their surroundings, because of shame, that they guard themselves a lot better.
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>>1528173
don't you ever feel your skin tighten up when everyone's eyes are you on? this is the same phenoema but times a billion and exclusive to the anime girl race.
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>>1526831
No, experience crawlers are not very difficult. The anon who grinds 5 hours before every boss just likes to takes things slow, so his playtime usually ends up double the average of other anons.
It just has very oddly weighted difficulty, where random encounters are a joke and all danger is in the bosses and the environment.

>>1526811
Experience Inc churns out a lot of DungeonRPGs, they have made like 15 DRPGs, which is as much as all other developer studios combined. So if you stick with the genre you will have an opinion on them sooner or later. Sword City is very emblematic of their style.
I think all Experience games that have made their way to the west are very mediocre and you are better off playing almost anything else

Here is their ludgraphy:
https://www.giantbomb.com/experience-inc/3010-7359/developed/
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>>1528191
>The anon who grinds 5 hours before every boss
wish that were the case but it's more that i'm shit at japanese and multitasking
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>>1528173
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>>1528196
Oh that explains a lot. I thought you were low key retarded before.
If you play those games in Nihongo and only speak that language for 3 years or so it makes sense that you take so long.
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>>1528191
If you don't like exploration based stuff, Experience games are still as good as a wiz-like can really be. Obviously, wiz-likes are limited, because they are wiz-likes. It's kinda like Dragon Quest. They can't change much, or else people get angry.

All the alternatives are kinda shitty.
Labyrinth of lost souls has maps with no design that feel out of place nowadays with minimaps existing (although you do kinda need to get maps in that game first, but still).
Elminage thinks it's great to have battles so varied in difficulty that they need to allow you to save before every encounter to reload if it's bad, while basing drops on dungeons so you have never any reason to beat anything hard.
Elminage original also had the extremely dumb idea to have every dungeon empty of shit to find, and your goal to be RANDOMLY placed in any of the dungeons, at any point in them. Given that you can shuffle, you can literally have 0 reasons to see the majority of the dungeons. Not like it matters much, as most dungeons have the exact same encounters as well.

If you want a wiz-like, experience is the way to go, unless you have huge nostalgic feelings to the old school map design, then Labyrinth of Lost Souls is really nice. Elminage is nice if you think that RNG and soft resetting is a great concept, just like entirely empty dungeons.
As far as combat depth goes, they are all the same though. Some are more grindy, some are less. Even among Experience games that holds true.
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>>1528205
I like how that is the costume for the frontline class with the literally worst survivability, that also has the highest offensive power including getting even more strong when statused. Sorry girl, but you don't survive much, ever.
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>>1528207
idk i'm probably retarded as well
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>>1528215
I'm still at the villa @lvl 30, but isn't Joker the glass cannon? I did a quadruple attack with nearly 2500 damage at that stage
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>>1528226
The dark knight is all attack, no defense. Joker is probably more along the lines of "gamble"? I don't remember too well.
The reason why dark knight is so good, is because buffs work etrian style. As in every single thing stacks by multiplying. And Dark Knight has by far the most atk buff available, and high base atk, low base def as far as I remember.
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>>1528209
>If you don't like exploration based stuff, Experience games are still as good as a wiz-like can really be. Obviously, wiz-likes are limited, because they are wiz-likes. It's kinda like Dragon Quest. They can't change much, or else people get angry.
Anon I... you know that wizardry radically changed its style? And today the games loosely based on Wizardry are more successfull than those still using AC and stat rolling.

>All the alternatives are kinda shitty.
That is why instead of playing watered down wiz-lites you either play actual Wizardry, or the Japanese gaidens like Prisoners of Battle or Busin 0. There are about half a billion Wizardries made in Japan that are much better than Experience.
The only thing Experience has going for it is accessibility without an emulator.
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>>1528287
At the very least Japan looks at these mechanics how they also look at Dragon Quest for the most part. You can say what you want about it having changed, that's not what Japan liked, and they create what they liked of Wizardry.
I mean, why else do several completely different devs use essentially the exact same mechanics? Class of Heroes. Elminage. All the experience stuff. Acquire stuff. You may not like it, others do.

I'd also really like to see all these wiz-likes that are better. In all honesty, I think you talk out of your ass. Sure, there's the possibility that there really exists one or two obscure games that are better, but I doubt it's more than that. And if they are better would still be up to debate, because I really don't see how they would be, unless your taste is just aligning better with them. (which in my case would be next to impossible, seeing how many different devs I tried, and how it ended up)
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>>1527281
I make them what they appear as for sub what their alter portraits suggest
even if its not optimal
so saul is fighter mage because why the fuck not this isnt dnd
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>>1528317
>, I think you talk out of your ass
bold words for the one who has obviously never even played mainline Wizardry.
I gave you two names, no need to spoonfeed more.
And you should think about the tripfag suggestion from last thread, saves time for everyone.
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>>1528259
I guess that it fills a similar archetype like landy in EO4 in that it needs an ungodly amount of skill points to get good. The paladin line attacks have a ridiculous damage multiplier and don't need buffs, cross slash and valkyrie spearspam do huge damage in a single turn with few points invested while berserker/dark lord needs to get this skill and that skill and charge up for multiple turns before getting anywhere, making it suck in random battles and risky in bosses. (if dark lord doesn't get killed by crits before finishing charging, while valkyrie shrugs off all blows. Seriously why is the paladin line so good)
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>>1528287
Wizardry only "radically" changed its gameplay from the standard mechanics that the Experience games still follow today with the last "proper" game, which was released like 10 years after the previous game. I guess 4 was a weird one as well but it's what it's. I don't see what's wrong with certain devs wanting to stick closer to that classic style instead of making standard JRPGs with first person grid based movement which is what many more modern crawlers feel like to me.
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Speaking of Wizardry-likes, anyone played pic related? It appears to be basically Wizardry 8, but released before it, and is made by a guy who actually worked on Wizardry.
>>
what do i pick for sub for lumi?
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>>1529017
I picked ranger or whatever the class is called because I think it has some dodge skills and I didnt know what else to pick but maybe other anons have better ideas
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>>1529056
but but alchemist have some weapon /armour passive boost
too bad i already have like 2 alchemists
>>
>underwater dungeon where you can't see the map or use spells and there are currents that drag you across 50 tiles in different directions and half the enemies poison you
Yea I can tell why this genre died 30 years ago
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>>1529117
They don't give you crystal like they did earlier?
Or you can buy it?
Also alchemist class exist for a reason
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>>1528970
I have it in my sights, but a game close to Wizardry 8 is not exactly a good thing. You have to mod the fuck out of that game to make it as much fun as older Wizardries.
Opinions seem to be split on underrated buggy mess and kinda boring slog from the threads I am reading. That said I have seen a few very prestigious users saying it is better than Wizardry 8.
>>
>enter mines they want me to bring dwarf along
>he gets one shotted by anything samurai girl dies as well the same monster wave
awwww shity
>>
Is it mandatory to play Wizardry 6-7-8 in an order and port saves?
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>>1529571
Not mandatory. More like a nice gimmick for veterans. But even veterans usually make clean runs for more challenge later.
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>>1529583
Does it alter the story or it is just extra items and levels?
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>>1529117
no the best is the anti-magic pitfall zone
unironically great game design
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>>1529684
What about the pitfalls that forces you to navigate a dark zone with exploding walls to get out?
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>>1528209
>Elminage original also had the extremely dumb idea to have every dungeon empty of shit to find, and your goal to be RANDOMLY placed in any of the dungeons, at any point in them. Given that you can shuffle, you can literally have 0 reasons to see the majority of the dungeons. Not like it matters much, as most dungeons have the exact same encounters as well.
I thought that was a good _concept_ but, yes, it wasn't properly executed.
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>>1529745
Nothing is worse than anti magic pitfalls, because you are just dead. Period. Most modern crawlers don't have that outside of postgame though. But on the other hand, you better have SOMEONE with float built in from an item once you hit postgame, better yet endgame. It's not unlikely to happen.
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Just 100%ed the maps in Class of Heroes, and I honestly cannot recommend this game to anyone, not even the most die-hard DRPG fans.
Granted I did enjoy treasure hunting and the exploring somehow, but the balance and pacing Are all over the place.
And then there's the postgame, it's rather lenghty until you finish all the quests and realize the game has nothing more to offer, other than a couple respawining "super" bosses that don't really need you to have the ultimate weapons +9 or anything, just get lucky with the stuns and you win. Really, a ton of the post-post game stuff is utterly pointless (uber weapons, fusion, reincarnations) since you have no incentives to use them in the game.
Overall I'd give it a generous 7/10 despite the game having serious problems, since I ended up enjoying it. That said I'm gonna take a break for now, and maybe start 2G sometimes next month, I hope it's better than the first one.
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>>1529858
How's the story and character interactions? What little I seen of late game story in 2 seemed neat, but I never played long enough to finish any CoH.
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>>1529858
Man, oh man. I remember playing this back when PPSSPP was still taking it's first steps and you wouldn't believe the amount of work I had to do to transfer my save to the sequel...only to get...some money and a fucking medal.
I'm still mad.
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>>1529858
2 is "better", in the sense that each dungeon has a unique layout instead of reusing them often.
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>>1529865
It's okay, it's just your usual japanese highschool shenanigans with a villainess trying to do evil things for no reason.
There are some loose ends but at least it does have a nice closure, with the golems being accepted as students in the newly built school.
Honestly, the fact that there's a story is already a plus in my book, then again the localization (by gaijinworks I think?) is kinda bad and over the top and makes me wish I got the japanese version instead since I can read moon.
>>1529874
Well, that sucks, though I guess it's good to know that your party doesn't carry over so I won't have to do it in any case.
>>1529886
Yeah that is one of biggest problems the game has imo, not to mention every map is mirrored for extra mapping frustration.
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>>1529858
thanks for your sacrifice anon ;w;
>>
So looking at how Wizardry V goes back to classic mechanics, I'm guessing people didn't really like Wizardry IV back in the day?
>>
How do i get more dark mythril shit in shappire
nothing drops it ?
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>>1529606
Certain items get carried from one game to another, and you start in a different starting area. The latter is dependant on which ending you got, I think.
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>>1530201
You have to realize that Wizardry IV was brutally hard, even by Wizardry's own standards. Wikipedia gives a good summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry_IV:_The_Return_of_Werdna#Difficulty
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>>1526132
kind of lost the drive to write about this stuff since i just want to play so here's this i guess:

https://i.imgur.com/fS6qzyc.jpg (stage 2 boss)
https://i.imgur.com/h6x4xNg.jpg (stage 3 start + power-up)
https://i.imgur.com/LqqCQMs.jpg (stage 3 pt.1)
https://i.imgur.com/dTtB4Hs.jpg (stage 3 pt.2)
https://i.imgur.com/xSZ1TtS.jpg (stage 3 plot)
https://i.imgur.com/Pqa5MRM.jpg (stage 3 boss)
https://i.imgur.com/clda2Ql.jpg (stage 4 start)
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i sure got filtered by this item puzzle in stage 4. just when it seemed like i had solved it, i went back to base quick and due some switch i had flicked near the end of the puzzle, everything was fucked.
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>>1531228
did the exact same thing
don't know how long I spent going back and forth trying to fix it
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>>1531251
yeah it was actually kind of fucking brutal. i also probably need to do some backtracking into earlier dungeons because i feel like i really aught to have a work bench lvl 2 by now (lacking the iron fence)
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>>1531273
*Might be bullshit, my memory is shit*, There's one guaranteed iron fence in every dungeon. Also if you get some shrine event, iron fence will spawn on the beach of the first dungeon.
Having workbench upgraded to the maximum available level is important, all other facilities don't matter that much.
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>>1531279
nice, i'll keep my eyes peeled
>>
>Eye of the Beholder
>frustrated by fake walls
Am I getting caught in the pleb filter and should persevere, or is it a matter of taste and I should just try a different DRPG?
Kinda missing the minimap too desu.
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>>1531527
Play the GBA version instead, it has automap, AD&D 3.5 rules and gold box combat!
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>>1531541
Will check it out, thanks.
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>>1531541
>Eye of the Beholder for GBA
I didn't even know that one existed.
Speaking of which, does GBA have any good DRPGs? I mean, besides this one.
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>>1531576
It has good ports of SMT 1(which was translated recently) and SMT 2.
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>>1531541
There's also a SNES version.
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>>1531541
Man that reminds me of when I bought this as a kid. I... didn't get very far, and didn't understand much.
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>>1531623
and a Sega CD version with really good music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtqLs4Iu9xc but those are based on the original DOS version
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>>1531290
huh... this stage four boss. i can't help but feel like that wasn't the intended way to fight it.

the boss monster just stood in the shock room the entire time, unable to pass the door frame and i took potshots at it until it died.
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>>1531637
Yeah, I had to up to Difficulty V for this boss and the next boss to see what they actually do for some reason.
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>>1531642
And to add to this, my favorite boss fight so far is still the Level 3 Boss, there's a nice amount of environmental interaction/manipulation you can do alongside just hitting him.
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>>1531642
oh the behaviors change as well? guess that's why that one anon mentioned playing through the game several times (unless there's some other incentive to be discovered later)
>>
Currently playing DT2 and I just finished the sewers with the red/blue puzzles.
Am I close to the end of the game?
I feel pretty bad that I haven't touched over half of the party members.
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>>1531655
yeah, pretty close
after that postgame is probably as long as the main game and much more challenging
once you start seeing class doors you can either start swapping in spares, or if you're boring you can just reclass your main party
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>>1531667
Cool, thanks.
>if you're boring you can just reclass your main party
I wish, but the resets being locked to every 15(?) levels means you don't have as much freedom to do that.
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>>1529858
>>1529908
How is the main game portion of that game compared to the post game?
I really dig the aesthetic, and I never really play post game, so if the portion up to the story boss is much better I might take a shot at this.

>>1530510
This is not exaggerated btw, to this day Wizardry IV is mentioned as a possible hardest RPG of all time.
>>
Okay tell me the top 5 dungeon crawlers with english translations with cute adorable characters. Only one game per franchise
>>
>>1531706
no (:
>>
Will you play her game?
>>
>>1531720
my phone's too dumb
https://youtu.be/-HD2vcSg-yE
>>
>>1531673
It's 1 15 30 50 90. You can get bonus stats for resetting too, depending on how many levels you lose. That starts at 60 levels, and that's also the optimum if you want to get to the max the fastest. (+50)

Given that it's postgame, you probably shouldn't think too much about it, until you are there, feel the need to do something like that and know your best exp sources.
>>
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>>1531688
>How is the main game portion of that game compared to the post game?
It's okay, but depending on your party comp it will either be a breeze, or living hell, there is no in-between.
As I said before I really cannot recommend this game to anyone so if you really want to you can start with the second game since it's apparently better, and the story doesn't really matter, nor is it important to have played the first game as far as I know.
If you really want to try it anyways, I can make you a list of "things I wish I knew before playing".
>>
>>1531706
Etrian Odyssey Nexus
Labyrinth of Refrain
Mary Skelter II
Zanki Zero
Sword City

Havn't played yet but anons like it:
Dungeon Travellers 2-2
Demon Gaze (2?)

The rest of the good ones are gritty rather than cute.
>>
>>1531727
Hmmh no need then.
I would have to emulate anyway, so no reason to play 1 first then for me.
Thanks for the info.
>>
>>1531730
I was wondering if Mary skelter II is good. Is it only on switch? Is nightmare good for steam?
>>
>>1531730
dt2-2 isn't english but yeah

i'd add undernauts (coming soon) and konosuba dungeon crawler (someday tm)

also i've heard some anon really liked the first persona q game

>>1531738
switch is the ideal version, and play 2 before 1
https://www.reddit.com/r/compileheart/comments/d4hb01/mary_skelter_2_full_immersion_roadmap_a/
>>
>>1531739
Inevitable "don't read the prologue novels until after you've finished both games" post I make every time that guide is posted.
>>
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>>1531737
Yeah, good call, I'm gonna start 2G soonish but I just wish the PS3 wasn't so slow at taking screencaps.
>>
>>1531730
Zanki Zero doesn't have cute and adorable characters (with its story and all), and especially Labyrinth of Refrain doesn't.
I'd not recommend those games to anyone in general, but that's another story.
>>
>>1531739
I don't have a switch
>>
>>1531747
Maybe not their personality, but there's no denying Harada Takehito's characters being cute as fuck.
>>
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>>1531746
how awful
>>1531747
i mean, they're still cute and adorable at the end of the day
>>
>>1531748
emulate it in ryujinx/whatever the other one is
>>
>>1531748
If you can emulate and you want the optimal experience, you really should play the second game. It even comes with a better version of the first than what is available on Steam, if the latter is your only option then I'd say try it out, but know that both its updated version and its sequel are a lot better, the sequel especially.
>>
>>1531738
I don't think the version you get on Steam is bad, I think it is the improved PSP version.
The problem is Mary Skelter II contains a free remaster of Mary Skelter I, and the story is structured in a way that the devs want you to play Mary Skelter II first.
>>1531748
>>1531755
Emulation isn't the worst idea, but with more and more JRPGs and DRPGs being Switch exclusive it seems like a decent investion to get one. Sony fucked up and is hated by the Japanese atm, and PC still has a few years before Japanese developers recognise it as a real platform.
>>
>>1531839
Steam has an outdated version of the game. It was handled by Ghostlight, and while Japan got patches for that game on consoles, the PC version never got anything. And that before the remaster with the sequel on Switch.

The steam version is the worst version to play. Given Ghostlight, you can't expect that to change either, or a sequel to get released.
>>
>>1531752
Shame the English version removed their bedtime events.
>>
>the cute and adorable games also just happen to be the best crawlers
potato bros...
>>
>>1533069
Feels good to have lived in the golden age of potato (and crawlers.)
>>
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>>1533069
Ahem >>1513753
>>
>>1531720
>phone game
Probably not, unless it's an actual game you pay for once then own in its entirety, rather than a conduit to milk microtransactions. Even then, I'd prefer it on PC.
I do like how party members step into view to attack and do actions.
>>
Does anyone know how to use cheat engine to increase the soul gage in Sapphire Wings? I edit the value but it keeps reverting back to the original value.
>>
>>1533633
Can't you lock the value?
>>
>>1533641
Is that when you tick the active box?
>>
>>1533653
Yes
>>
>>1533679
Yea I tried that but it still goes back
>>
>>1533633
Try this table.

https://fearlessrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?t=15710
>>
>>1533711
Thanks, but do you understand how to do this part?
>For the char editor you need the char's name address (to find the right one browse a result's memory region, the one you are looking for will have some values constantly changing, blinking red, some rows above char's name.)

If I try browsing a memory region I just see a bunch of random machine instructions, I only know how to find and edit basic values.
>>
>>1533737
They really didn't want people bypassing the soul level grind, huh.
>>
>>1533795
I managed to do it but yea it's a bit of a pain in the ass
>>
>>1529684
one thing I don't like is how enemies aren't affected by antimagic zones.
>>
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can't tell if it's because i've played 10 hours every day since i started, but the game is kind of falling off for me.

starting stage 6 now and bosses have been underwhelming. i just keep hanging in there for the game to 'open up'. there are some really exciting mechanics/aesthetics in this game, but it feels like they just take the backseat to the narrative. (much like labyrinth of refrain)

at this point i just want a meaty dungeon or two. let me gathering materials and grind monsters and explore or whatever, stop throwing a tv in my face every three steps.

and i don't mind the story, but i do mind the whole anime-trope thing where every single character MUST chime in to EVERY conversation. it's a bit excessive.

just wonder if i should have bumped the difficulty harder earlier on or something, but even then i think these dungeons have just felt too thin, and adding a few more charge attacks to slay each monster won't do much to help it.
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>>1534685
last dungeon was pretty great in my opinion
it's a bit more free-form too

besides damage, difficulty does increase monster variety, most notably adding extra boss spawns throughout dungeons
the spa area has 3 or 4 of them at once on V as a result
>>
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>>1534719
ah nice, well i'll definitely try to stay optimistic then. ray gigant was also a pretty story heavy crawler that pulled a great dungeon out of its ass for the finale so its certainly not unprecedented.
>>
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>going through the memory world in labyrinth of refrain
what the fuck this is just depressing and fucked up
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By complete accident I stumbled across this game: Devil Whiskey the Bard's Tale fangame.
It has such races as: Human, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Senrat (Ratman), Saurian (Lizardman) and Beggins (Hobbit).
You make a party of eight with such classes as arcanist, elementalist, warrior, paladin, barbarian, monk, psi knight, red claw (lizardmen's exclusive super barbarian), bard and thief. According to the manual, classes get class promotions, like Paladin-Protector-Guardian-Crusader-Templar-Lord of Mercy for example, with each promotion giving you various active/passive skills. Both pure spellcaster classes are different. They start with one school of their choice and then change to another each 13 levels to get the ultimate arcanist/elementalist class at the end.
The combat is pure Bard's Tale with the distance system in imperial units. Story important NPC's have very janky voice acting. No mouse support at all, you do everything with a keyboard. You MUST read the manual for keyboard shortcuts. Also the game implies that it takes place on Earth during the unrecorded times because it mentions Atlantis in the intro and has spells to summon Cu Chulainn and Thor.
>>
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>>1534849
at least it looks cool
>>
>>1534849
I hadn't cared much about the plot until that segment. I have to give the game points for really depicting a world that is less civilized than our own in a bad way.
>>
>Etrian Odyssey
What exactly is Atlus doing nowadays anyway? Just SMT/Persona? Are they just ignoring everything else they used to work on, not even developing new stuff? I wouldn't mind a new Trauma Center.
>>
>>1534719
You alreasy fight multiples of them on the other difficulties. For some reason only on Difficulty V have I encountered them actually performing their attacks. Same with the Stage 4 Boss.
>>
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How are the Madou Monogatari games? I never really see them discussed.
>>
>>1535402
I meant it spawning Gluttony, Sloth, and Wrath in addition to the Envies all in the same map
might only happen after beating the stage, I dunno
>>
>>1535416
What the hell is wrong with her head? Is that how Koreans actually look?
>>
>>1535466
I mean, though this is a screenshot of the Korean version, the Madou Monogatari games are Japanese.
>>
>>1535491
I know, but I assumed the Koreans localized Arles head since it looks normal in the Puyo games I've seen her in.
>>
>>1535496
She just has weird sprites in some games.
>>
>>1517516
Soon it is going to be finished.
Do you think there is going to be at least one good thing in there?
>>
Is there a recommended map making software for ye old 80s blobbers without automaps?
>>
>>1535935
I came up with an idea for one, but literally two hours ago. Sadly they want something that's "not a prototype, proof of concept or tech demo", and I doubt I can make it in 6 hours.
Although I jammed some games in 3 hours before, I'll give it a shot.

>each character has one action determined by their class
>four classes, melee tank, ranged single-target damage, aoe caster, and healer
>each class can branch out into two different jobs, which also branch out into two, for a total of 20 classes
>promotion classes "upgrade" the base ability, for example the heal targets a row, or buffs/revives, but it takes twice as long to level up after each promotion
>but you can permanently lock the class too, so you level up and gain pure stats faster (just hp and atk, maybe def)
Gonna toss in random enemies and a random labyrinth. Any thoughts?
>>
Recommend me some good ones?
>>
>>1535970
With one guy or a party? Western or Japanese? For PC or consoles?
>>
>>1535945
Grid Cartographer.
>>
>>1535966
Sounds like a nice mobile game to be honest.
>>
>>1535975
Any desu
>>
>>1536006
Stranger of Sword City but use picturegate to add pictures of people you dislike (your parents, your boss, your middle school bully, etc.) and use them as character portraits, then let them perma die in the first dungeon
>>
>>1536006
World of Xeen (Might and Magic 4-5) is a giant and charming game with amazing music, art, puzzles, story and campy voice acting.
Might and Magic 6 has a free 3D movement with real time/turn based combat options and also good experience.
Wizardry 5 is a classic Wizardry experience but with a lot of QoL. Good starting place for playing a series.
The Bard's Tale Trilogy is a good remake of three games in one package with a lot of QoL and difficulty adjustments to make it play like an original "no fun allowed" DOS games.
Anvil of Doom has only one character in your party and you don't level up. You need to use your skills and equipment.
>>
>>1536084
Why start with W5 over 6?
>>
>>1536097
Cosmic Forge saga is not a straightforward "go to the dungeon, kill and loot things" game.
>>
>>1535092
Seems like Personas, SMT, small IPs, and new IPs right now. They had a poll recently on what people might want with Persona 3 remake and new Etrian Odyssey amongst given choices; not sure how new EO would work though with no longer having mapping done by stylus. Plus the last two EOs were stated to be last EOs as the permanent end of the series, so who knows what'll happen (not that even the team leaving stops these companies from using the IP).
>>
>>1536084
I'd say 6-7-8 rather than just 6 for Might and Magic 6 entry here, all three games are fairly close and decent with their own pros and cons. Granted 6 is the most charming of them, while 8 is the most competently designed. Plus there's a merge mod for all 3 if you have M&M8; but it's basically a whole new experience and something I'd recommend after playing the original 3 individually (or at very least 6 and 7).
>>
>>1536246
>Plus the last two EOs were stated to be last EOs as the permanent end of the series,
Source on this? Nexus was the series’s celebration, sure. But I never read anything about the EO ending.
>>
>>1536302
It's explicitly not the case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QkO3sNbOA

>almost three years ago
Haha...
>>
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>>1528209
>they need to allow you to save before every encounter to reload if it's bad
Or maybe you can get good and build an actual functioning team that doesn't die 99% of the times instead of blaming the game for your incompetence, they allowed a save everywhere feature precisely to ease in people like you who can't actually play drpgs.
>while basing drops on dungeons so you have never any reason to beat anything hard.
>He fights for random dungeon drops
>instead of stealing items from specific enemies or completing quests
Oh nevermind you're even more stupid than I've thought.
>you can literally have 0 reasons to see the majority of the dungeons.
Just like Wizardry where you could skip most of the floors, how interesting that is, isn't it?
Oh wait a second! Nevermind the fact that every dungeon has sidequests tied to it that lead to specific rewards tailor made to make you even less dependant on RNG enemy drops.
Never mind that classes like summoners are entirely designed around playing pokemon with monsters so that you have to go into very specific dungeons, on specific floors if not even specific parts of the floors to actually recruit the monsters you need to make an entire class functional.
Never mind that even in Gothic you have very good reasons to explore dungeons extensively even disregarding all of the above precisely because you have randomly placed key items to hunt for which are needed to open up the endgame, you should have actually played those games for more than an hour to know about all of this after all.
>>
fuckin balhael cave
and fuck that clear trap points shit mechanic
>>
>>1536428
What's wrong with it? I thought it was a pretty standard dungeon.
>>
>>1536390
Yeah, I remember that trailer. Then what the fuck is that anon on about?
>>
>>1536440
Trap need meat , place meat nope fuck you
also too many trap points
fuck this also fucking golden slimes
>>
>>1536465
Did you not use specifically beast meat of at least the same rank as the trap? Other types of meat won't work (like bird meat or whatever) and lower ranks won't work either.
>>
Can you describe me a difficulty of Elminage Gothic?
Can I make a party using common sense and go with it or you need a crazy optimization right from the beginning?
>>
>>1536474
Forget the party, you have to be born autistic
>>
>>1536302
>>1536390
Weird, guess I remembered wrong.
I am so confused.
>>
>>1536489
You crossed over from the universe where Fatlus was honest about the series being dead rather than stringing fans along like this.
>>
>>1536474
Did you play Wizardry?
Then it's best described as Wiz5, with some things from the Dark Savant trilogy and almost as much contempt and hatred for the player as Wiz4.
You don't need crazy optimization outside of the last postgame dungeon but you REALLY need to know what you're doing and you really need to know how Wizardry and Elminage work, especially if you choose certain party configurations.
Everything is viable but unlike previous Elminage games which were pretty lax and easy going, Gothic asks you to actually know your shit about classes, races, party dynamics and general "savoir faire" so to speak.
It's not the end of all of dungeon crawling but it's one of the rare games where you're asked to use all of the tools at your disposal to win because the game holds no punches at all and will try to break you constantly.
>>
By any slim chance, does anyone here have all the Elminage 3DS cias? There are ports of all games in the series, if I recall correctly, but I can't find 2 or 3 on the internet. They seem to be pretty rare.
>>
>>1536527
Nevermind, found them here:
https://archive.org/download/3ds-cia-undatted-encrypted
>>
>>1517516
Tried a few, they were all shit.
>>
>>1536524
Isn't it just savescum central again? Original was boring as fuck.
>>
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this must have been the result of a bad fortune but i had one of these show up in my home base and scare the living fuck out of me.
>>
Any tips for Might & Magic X? If relevant, I've got both the base game and the DLC.
>>
Is the balance/level curve supposed to be fucked in Saviors of Sapphire Wings? I didn't grind or anything but I feel like at some point during the castle dungeon I became way too strong. Ever since then I've been killing most bosses in like half a dozen turns without breaking a sweat and safely mashing through random battles while hardly ever taking damage.
>>
>>1537296
The bosses don't really have much HP, they seem to have tried to balance it so they're harder to hit and deal a lot of damage, but if you have Burgo with the Saint's Hammer he can kill basically all bosses by himself with one or two Rushes after some accuracy buffs.
>>
>>1536933
If you need to savescum in Elminage you should probably find another hobby to waste your time on.
>>
>>1537230
Yeah, pretty uniquely for a m&m, melee is good (blademaster being tip top), so most of the classes are viable.
Also i highly reccomend playing on normal and not hard. Played it through on both and hard just seems to inflate HP and slow the game down.
Nice little game honestly.
>>
>>1537091
it's actually the only place you can get that particular variant of the hermit crab shells
>>
>>1519309
what are your thoughts on the sword city remake?
>>
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>>1538115
recently came to learn this as well since i think i finally hit the gear-check in stage 7. the monster density kind of ramped up here and i'm getting one or two shot by things.

it's a little irksome that most of the crafting boils down to finding rusty/tattered objects which you basically have to scour a wiki to know where to find.

>>1538138
i think it's a solid improvement over the base game and the bounty hunting system provides satisfying challenges. can't speak for the post-game as i shelved it for later.

changes:
https://rzvdeuvmm5ywlsrovage4tswhq-jj2cvlaia66be-www-spoiler-jp.translate.goog/srv/tsurugi/?%E7%99%BA%E5%A3%B2%E5%89%8D%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1/1.5#q259c965
>>
Anyone playing Stranger of Sword City Revisited, how do I build a clocker? I think they sound good on paper but I’m not sure what they excel at.
>>
>>1538182
basically every class can utilize at least a level 1 clocker jobchange just for 'clock up'

but mainly i'd incorporate them into your wizard or cleric builds so you can do overclock (2x an action)

cleric:
dancer lvl10 > cleric 30 > clocker 28 > wizard
wizard:
dancer lvl 10 > clocker lvl28 > wizard
>>
>>1538182
but to elaborate, on a DPS character clock-up is good because you can doublecast skills you concentrate (spend a turn charging up) for
>>
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Can't believe they made me wait until post-game to give Merlin the better portrait.
>>
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>>1538301
Also, now I can only feel like if I unequip her accessory she'll be going nopan.
>>
>>1537426
>hard just seems to inflate HP
Ah yes, the Oblivion Syndrome.
>>
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what qualifies as a "master charmer" for this pact?
>>
>>1513744
Meh, they're just no good and low effort crap.
>>
>>1538344
1000 eros/charm
can supplement it with gear that you start to find in the middle section
>>
>>1538309
doki
>>
>>1538309
Is the post game any good?
>>
>>1538433
I only got a short ways into it today but it already introduced a teleport maze and panels that remove your buffs if you step on them. Those areas were still fairly simplistic but I think post-game is probably going to be half of the game's content.
>>
>>1537424
The game is made for it. Save anywhere. Soft reset function. Enemy spawns from 1 weakling to 12 dangerous fucks at once. Drops completely unrelated to that.

It's shit. That's what it is.
>>
>>1538163
i think stage 6 was the first dungeon that felt meaty in the way that there were nuances and mechanisms to floor clearing that felt satisfying. you might spend a few days and several trips just to finish a floor proper, that kind of thing. and the boss for this stage was a nice sentiment, especially when you take into consideration the theme.

and it's carried into stage 7 where it's finally hit the sweet spot. i've died several times trying to clear a floor and really mind don't reloading to try again when movement and combat is so fast-paced. trying to play fast and effectively is pretty addicting... touch-menuing to cram food and water and piss in bottles, hitting all your charge timings and all that. makes me wonder what a speedrun might look like.

so really stages 4 and 5 have been the only low points for me so far. and having come this far i can already see how'd play the game differently in the next playthrough (skill allocation, resource management, difficulty adjustments etc.)

while the game feels great on the vita, but it would certainly benefit from a switch-sized resolution. trying to thumb an icon on inventory menu can be tricky and when you're playing fast in combat, the more visual clarity the better. also this game seems to murder my vita battery, but that could be because i've been putting it through heavy use the past year or so.
>>
>Elminage Gothic
I don't remember what's it like in Original, but in Gothic, apparently all encounters spawn on certain pre-defined squares. If you keep your own map and you keep track of it, you will eventually realize that all fights are always triggered on the same few squares. You can use this to plan your route through the dungeon to some degree.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
what are the best tools to make a drpg? I'm currently thinking in trying out and learn how to make games.
>>
>>1538571
Just make it in Unity so that you learn unity and C# scripting or whatever Unity uses. I'm sure there's some shitty RPG Maker type thing that will let you churn out a dungeon crawler faster than learning how to make one from scratch in Unity but your game will be shit anyway so you might as well learn how to use an actually useful/relevant engine.
>>
>>1538568
Nono that is right. You can even use items to fuck with those spawn squares, certain items permanently reveal them on the map with squares, and you can remove them with consumables to make your trips through the dungeon easier, as there is not really a consistent way to skip to lower levels before teleport.

The game has a lot of depth stowed away like that behind shitty descriptions, bad UI and half assed translations.
>>
>>1538193
>>1538199
Thanks.
>>
>>1538611
>consumables
This reminds me. I originally found it extremely irritating how the map in Gothic is actually a consumable item, and a weird step back AND sideways in comparison to Original, where the map was always available, if my memory serves me well. Like, either have a permanent map or don't have it at all, right? Why create such a weird hybrid system?
But then I realized it's still a step up from not having any kind of map whatsoever. Yeah, sure, you still need to keep your own map if you don't want to grind for gold just to look at the map, but this actually allows you to correct your physical map if it turns out you made a mistake. I know I personally used to make a couple of mistakes where I accidentally mis-counted the amount of squares, which made my map look out of proportions.
Of course, you can easily just look at maps on the Internet, but where's the fun in that?
>>
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>>1538568
You're correct, Original and the others work like that too, enemies are mostly placed in various chokepoints on the map and act as filters, they're almost always placed before or behind doors, or on bridges.
99% of your encounters in Elminage games are fixed, random encounters basically do not exist, they're absurdly rare.
Another reason why alchemists are so valuable is that their alchemic items allow you to manipulate encounters further than this, Dove Bells wipe out all fixed encounters from a floor for instance, while Crow Bells refresh them, so you really can't bitch about RNG like a certain somebody in this thread does because you can and should know when and where you are going to fight and what you're going to fight, AND you can also choose to not fight at all.
>>
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>>1539953
so edgy so based
>>
What do i place at temple of eslyn
holy grounds c grade trap?
>>
>>1540773
>temple of eslyn
sorry i played in JP but if you mean the third dungeon then the explosives can be purchased at Arentir, you will need four in total. i think there might be some you can find in the dungeon in barrels as well, but it's been a while.
>>
>>1540783
nah its that water maze shit i need to fill this shit to get last crane part to move the game further
it says shellfish and ? but i had like 3 different ones shellfishes and none worked
also fuck those rifts took me a while to even get there
>>
>>1540790
ohh the last hunting point in the water dungeon.
yeah i remember that one being annoying to trigger. tempura, shellfish stew, and natto work there.
>>
>>1540799
nvm i just placed some shit it wants even food and it worked
mimics appeared and lady eraste fuck this place done with it already
>>
>>1540805
sik
>>
testt
>>
>>1540809
based canadian
>>
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>Post-game dungeon has the boss of each floor respawn whenever you leave and there are no shortcuts
This would be more tolerable if it was a game where you actually had reasonable ways to replenish your MP and recover KO'd characters. How many floors is it? That'll determine whether I keep going or drop it now.
>>
>>1541034
surprised you even bothered to continue after the main story ending (i sure had no desire) but apparently the first post-game dungeon is 7 floors? and the second is 3?
>>
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>>1541072
Ok, fuck that. That's gonna be way too much of a chore for a game that clearly doesn't have anything more to offer.
>>
>>1541102
rip
so what are you playing next?
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>>1541120
Sword City, of course.
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>>1541136
oh sick, enjoy
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>>1540021
>can't bitch about Rng
Oh really? So you can totally influence what kind of encounter you get? And you get much better drops from harder battles?
You can't and won't. Sure there are enemy tiles, but it's not like Elminage is the only game there. Plus given the empty as fuck dungeons in Original, it's not like you are going to explore them anyway, after realizing there is no reason for it.

I know I hate a lot on the game, and I'm sure if you don't care about literally everything in the game being RNG, you have maybe more fun with it. To me the mechanics are just utter shit. Your goal is randomized. Enemy groups are super randomized (typical for wiz-likes, but the save anywhere makes it super dumb, as you generally know when an encounter comes anyway). Drops are per dungeon randomized, which sucks, because like that it's even less useful to deal with a more difficult encounter.
I had some fun with Labyrinth of lost souls for example. The game could be a bitch, but not being able to save anywhere and actually needing to deal with dangerous enemies for drops made it fun. I also had a goal, get to the next floor. Elminage Original did nothing like that. You just quickly gather your randomized goals, beat the way too weak bosses, and you are in the final dungeon, without needing to see the majority of the dungeons. Not even a problem, because again, they are empty, and enemies tend to be the same after the first few. Most quests are also giving you nothing but these "search points", so once you have enough you can ignore that shit. Exploration rewards suck ass in the game. And with your progress goal not even being at the end of the dungeons, there's nothing to see. I wasn't negative about the game at first. But the more I played it, the more I realized how fucking dumb the system is. It honestly just felt unfinished as fuck.
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>>1541034
How is MP a problem, clerics get mana out the ass for walking, just subclass your casters into cleric
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is there a better pact i could be using for a peer fortress group? been using defender ever since i got it
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>>1541458
>Dude just spend 10 minutes walking back and forth while running from random battles after each boss fight
I'd rather not waste my time doing something that retarded.
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>>1541470
not sure where you're at currently but yeah i used that pact for a very long time as well, possibly until the end of the game.
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>>1541519
i just got to tanis
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>>1541622
o lol, yeah you should be fine then. i hope you've been doing all your quests in the home base. there's a key that you get from one of the quest chains that gives you access to a coven that will be incredibly helpful, nigh mandatory, for the boss. it's where my tanks actually ended up as well.
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i think i might beat zanki zero pretty soon here which is nice. there's just one thing i don't understand and it's the final dungeon. there's this huge sonic trap area on one of the floors and i still haven't figured out how to turn them off. are you meant to actually just dance around them or something?
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>>1541470
You get one that’s very similar but a bit better.
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>>1541486
That's why you're fat anon
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>>1541658
Yeah you can just time shit right and take no damage, or die to it once and grab some anti sound equipment and be hit for almost no damage.
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>>1541768
ahh sure, yeah i corpse dived a little and it didn't seem like there was anything too important. will probably do it proper if i can ever be arsed to load up my last save and chase down all the CG and special events in the game.

bout to give the final boss a whirl here soon, in b4 horribly undergeared.
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>>1541144
I love this art style.
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>>1541418
>He's at it again
You're a certified retard who understands nothing of the game, no wonder you like kiddie garbage like LoLS.
Given how much verifiable lies you're spouting I doubt you even actually played Original, which is the easiest game in the series, but it's pointless to argue with somebody who still doesn't understand that dungeon grinding for dungeon drops, especially in Original where thieves are at their best, is utterly fucking stupid.
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>>1541899
Is it really worth it engaging with that guy I wonder? He always writes massive walls of texts about why every game that is not developed by the apostates of mediocrity that are Experience Inc is inferior, but all fact statements he makes are wrong to the point where it is likely he is just salvaging his opinions from random steam reviews.
I appreciate other anons calling him out, like >>1536423 , since if you know how to use Elminages absurdly potent spell lists you are able to defeat any random encounter no matter how mean the table rolls before post game, and complaining about high variance in random encounters and calling it not faithfull to Wizardry is hilarious.
But I am not sure if it is worth clogging up the thread.
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>>1541657
what pact is it? i might already have it
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>>1541953
>>1541899
Fuck off, I know this is technically a general but we've been able to stay away from the usual faggotry and circlejerking that plague most of these threads. If someone's being dumb just tell them to fuck off or stop replying, don't bring up schizophrenic episodes from two months ago and start fucking dev wars in the thread.
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>>1542037
reasonable
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Just started the first Etrian Odyssey. Just made it to the second floor and I can't make much progress before I have to leave with half of my team dead. Is it always like this or do I just suck? This is my first drpg btw.
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>>1542156
Etriam is one of the more ballbusting ones, especially the first games.
Yes getting buttfucked early on is by design, but it makes it even more satisfying when you're the one shitting on everything.
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>>1542164
>Etriam is one of the more ballbusting ones, especially the first games.
I don't remember having too many problems with EO1, besides getting filtered at the "last" boss. Then again, I did play it more than 10 years ago, so I may have forgotten some things.
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>>1542179
you have almost no skills and no TP, plus each attack chunks 1/3rd of the health bar
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>>1542156
All EOs are kinda like that, doubly so if you are relatively new to DRPGs or EO.
As long as you are gaining xp and not losing cash on your runs they are a success. The gameplay loop of most DRPGs is to push into the dungeon, with each run getting better at the game and having a stronger party, and conquering the dungeon one tile at a time. Like the steady raindrop that carves the stone.
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>>1542156
Just make sure to make money and be geared up and after awhile youll have smooth progress.
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my first drpg was Legend of Grimrock, any kind of game like it? I uh, only played Legend of Grimrock and Shin Megami Tensei, so I don't know much about the genre
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>>1542822
Might and Magic maybe?
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>>1542834
never heard of it, but I could give it a shot? Is it on Steam or am I supposed to buy from gog?
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>>1542822
DRPGs are split into two subgenres, action based and turn based combat.

The big western games that inspired Grimrock are Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder and lands of Lore. If you are not opposed to boomer crawlers then I think Eye of the Beholder aged the best of those. GoG version obviously for ancient games.

There is only one eastern action crawler, Zanki Zero. It is a bit exotic, and generally not as much as a safe bet as the western crawlers. I like it, there is a lot of content about it in this thread.

For other modern western action crawlers there is Vaporum, as a medium size indie, and Aeon of Sands, as a small sized indie. I recommend neither, I think both have flaws. If the aesthetics vibe with you however those would be a safe point to look further.

Apart from that, if you want to get into turn based DRPGs there is a Shin Megami Tensei DRPG! Strange Journey is a DRPG and really really good. There are also Persona Q 1 and 2, but they are not in the same weightclass as SMT.

Apart from that Wizardry 5, 7 or 8 maybe? Those are turn based western crawlers and the origin of the entire genre. The silly word puzzles in dungeons thing mostly comes from Wizardry.
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>>1542861
>Vaporum
I think I have that on my Switch, although I think I got it while drunk buying spree.

I do have Strange Journey Redux on my 2DS and has been going wonderfully, although it crashed on my ass right after a boss and a cutscene and I didn't save like, maybe one hour before dealing with the boss so I kinda don't want to go back there because I'm sad and stupid

Will check out the other games that you recommended, they seem pretty nice.
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>>1542878
The switch port is a big headache since you have to be manipulating a mouse cursor all the time using shitty analog stick control
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>>1542851
Start with Might and Magic X. It is the most modern and actually ok game (unfortinately it has nothing in common setting wise with older games).
Then you can play MM6-8 for 3d movement (install Greyface's patches) or if you want grid based movement go for MM3 and World of Xeen for DOS.
Might and Magic 1 and 2 are hard and evil and not recommended to start with.
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>>1542919
I might be able to play those older games on second PC that I have laying around, it's one of those beige ones, so it might be a DOS PC
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>>1542935
?
DOSbox has become so stronk that you can run Dos-stuff without a problem on modern windows PCs. They now come bundled with that, no matter if you buy them on Steam and Gog.
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>>1542946
Fuck, I sound stupid now that I have re-read what I typed.

I meant that now I have a reason to use this old computer because I'm supposed to be using for... something (Family issues evolved into buying this old computer for arbitrary reasons)
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>>1542935
Then go for MM3 and Xeen if you are ok with oldy controls and UI limitations of Dos games. They are gorgeous games.
Not saying that the newer ones are bad in comparison, but they are not so unique.
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>>1542963
If you have a CRT screen to go with it, sure why not.
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>>1542012
great sage's pact, from the great sage's key
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>>1513818
I thought that both team comps were absolutely serviceable, even without the protagonist power bump. With 2U I would reclass the survivalist to Hexer and I would get almost the same team I used to steamroll classic mode.
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nice.
think i'm pretty comfortable giving this a 4.0/5.
i've said some of this earlier but might as well sum it up here:

this game excites me in the way LoR does; it is heavily story driven with fascinating and original systems underneath. at times it even plays like Escape from Tarkov: The Dungeon Crawler, written by Chunsoft. i can only speak for the unedited JP release, but it's also a game you will need to season to taste. not all of the sliders are properly dialed in, meaning you will need to adjust the difficluties and be allocating resources and skills properly to get the most out of it. but when it all starts to click,
it's a rush: sprinting through floors, dancing around enemies, landing charge timing attacks, chugging food and pissing in bottles... knob tweaking aside, the speed and mechanical nature of the game is enough alone to warrant multiple playthroughs.

yet it is not without flaws though. there could have been less narrative interruptions and more meatier dungeons during the middle section. the hub facilities could have been more personalized and useful (only the crafting bench matters). weapon specializations could have been more fleshed out. as it is now, the only real path to take is slashing and ranged damage. here they could have borrowed class associations from more traditional crawlers. and while i like playing this game on the vita for quick menuing during combat with the touch screen, it would've really benefitted from a switch-sized resolution in terms of selection accuracy and visual clarity.

but with all that said i think there is an excellent foundation here to build upon. the game is a visual treat with a crazy narrative and it is a fresh take on the real-time strafe-stabbing dungeon crawler. i do hope we see a succession to this game, even if it's not from Lancarse/Chunsoft.

in the meantime, think i might try to play some tokyo clanpool before saga frontier remaster comes out next week.
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>>1542156
They get gentler over time. EO4 is really easy. In EO1 your party composition makes a huge difference on your effectiveness, though probably that won't show so much on floor 2.
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baba kinda fucking me up. i can get her to critical hp usually but then she mobs up my team. plus the start of the fight is a gamble on whether or not great sage pact gets silenced or not
should i be considering soul transferring at this point?
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>>1543923
hmm, the GSP kind of just trivialized the entire fight for me. and you even have two white rose pacts. maybe try switching to the donamu formation to scale your magic damage (70% if i recally correctly?)
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>>1543944
most of my high level puppets in there are moon stance and i didn't find out until later how much hp you lose using that, so sometimes they get gibbed pretty hard. had a level capped mad raptor but she only has like 1400 hp so she would die constantly
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>>1543950
well hopefully some other anons will chime in or you work it out one way or another. the only other thing i'd suggest is making sure you've backtracked through the dungeon and used the keys on the various treasure chests because there are some pretty powerful uniques within them. i didn't have to soul transfer to beat the game but i think donamu damage was nerfed a little from the vita version.
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>>1543970
what's the 3rd pact?
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>>1543974
i wish i could recall, i didn't take many screenshots leading up to that boss kill because i was pretty mad that i had to run around and get GSP.

i want to say it was the lucky soul book (the one that requires 80+ luc to use), which was mainly using for party-wide healing at that point.
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>>1543564
though with the original EO it's not like you have a lot to choose from anyway, the only trap is not getting a medic and that's against common sense. Protectors aren't needed until postgame and by that point you could level one fairly quickly.
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>>1543533
Still one of the best examples how to not design games though. Every single thing could be improved, and fairly easily at that.
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finally
was worried i wasn't going to make when it i found out lucky heal doesn't heal puppets that have very bad luck but donum defense is way too strong
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>>1544641
nice work!

that boss is quite a hurdle given there really wasn't much up till that point in the way of gear checks or challenge. hope you enjoy the ending. fair warning, the post game is pretty damn grindy from what i gather.
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>>1544650
bittersweet ending but i did enjoy it, was afraid it was going to pull a fast one on some more suffering.
probably won't touch postgame for awhile plus i still need to get the other 3 black pages but overall i really enjoyed the game as my first DRPG and i hope the sequel gets an international release
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>>1543533
Nice review.
I agree, for how much of a draw a survival DRPG where you build your own shelter is, the shelter building really could have been more prominent.
That said it is fairly ludicrous to take this much of a risk in general. Japanese Eye of the Beholder esque real time DRPGs are rare in the first place, splicing it with heavy narrative and survival elements is such an odd combination. I am glad it paid off somewhat, although I am not too optimistic for a new Chunsoft crawler, as I don't think the game sold terribly well. Shame, they make a solid addition to the roster.
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>>1543533
nice review anon, repicked it up again this weekend and decided to just make do and try to finish the game on Difficulty III before moving on to another game.
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>>1542156
Medicas are pretty dirt cheap early on so if you're having trouble pushing farther you can fill your bags with healing consumables and slowly use them up to make room for loot.
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I am astounded that SoSC manages to have an even worse UI than SoSW. Now I wonder if my recollection of Demon Gaze having a decent UI is mistaken and there isn't actually a single Experience game with a UI that isn't terrible.
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>>1545983
>I am astounded that SoSC manages to have an even worse UI than SoSW
This is also exasperated if you're playing in English since NISA chose a absolutely atrocious font.
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>>1544329
Honestly, the original is fairly tame for all its bumps and bruises. I used a level 1 Ronin without grinding and they still contributed a decent amount after the rocky start.
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trying Tokyo Clanpool on a whim, fully expected a brainless coomer garbage but it's surprisingly a little more than that.

the game is FAST. the normal speed of grid movement is on the same level as 'auto-map' movement of other crawlers (which this game has as well). interestingly, if you have a clean path, you can auto-map move across multiple floors of a dungeon which i haven't seen before. adding to the speed, if you approach a corner (that isn't a T section) you can automatically round it just by holding the direction you are moving in, which is pretty slick. more, instead of only revealing the tile you are standing on, the game reveals tiles in in a 3x3 radius.

exploring is fun. given the speed of movement, they seem to have gone for huge maps with tons of little nooks and crannies to literally dig into. yes, this game has wall/floor breaking tied to a meter system which you can recharge via stations in the dungeon, items, or spells. so far the floors feel handcrafted, and it's satisfying to dig around for switches, jump gaps, and run through on/off switches to open up areas. but even if the game is fast, you still can't shitblast your way through the dungeon. there are holes (but no fall damage) and traps that will slow your step, which i appreciate. i prefer being methodical the first time around and having the option of very quickly getting back there the next time. there is seemingly a TON of dungeon obstacles and interactables (image here), with a generous amount of items/treasures respawning on new delvings.
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>>1546046
itemization is quirky. the spells and abilities you use in combat can come from a multitude of places. firstly is your 'digiskin' (basically an avatar over your clothing) which is essentially your class identity. this can be freely swapped in base and such but it has a very big impact on your stat distribution and provides some skills. secondly is your 'core' which is like an elemental alignment by which you will try to make everything synergize with. thirdly there is the equipment, which depending on the item, provide active attack/casting skills or passive bonuses. items come in tiers and seemingly random affixes (recently found a weapon that had two skills that did the exact same thing for the same cost but one was stronger). finally, there are the 'gageteers' which are like 5 pokemon that you can assign to each character that provide passive stat bonuses, skills, and passives. these things can be crafted, bred, evolved and strengthened to various effects. but don't get too excited, it doesn't seem that deep or complex, but just another avenue for stats.
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>>1546051
the game is easy. in combat you will program each characters attack based on your pool of skills you've obtained from various places. each skill has a stamina cost for that turn that you will try to make the most of. once everything is programmed you can then just hold the R button and watch combat zoom by. i mean really zoom. combat can last as little as 5 seconds including all of the start and end animations. that said, the encounter rate can be pretty high. very early on you are given a power-up that uses the same energy of your wall breaks that can repel enemies for 50 steps, but given the speed of the movement that amounts to very little for now. boss fights require a little more thought but really just boils down to 'lets turn on our goku forms, get 2x the stamina, re-program, and hold R'. i managed to 'clear' the first section of the dungeon and it's boss without ever returning to base (3 floors) just by the virtue of item and skill upgrades along the way.
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>>1546056
the plot and theme are kind of weak. japan was essentially ravaged by some space aliens from an inverted city in the sky and scrapped together what remained of the japanese congress to form a special defense unit that can utilize 'ether' to fuel their digiskins or whatever. after much combat, the sky city finally made direct contact with earth via a tower (dungeon) that you are now exploring. so the protagonist is actually the prime minister of japan and it's associated departments, but they're all your typical compile heart airheads. the activities of this unit are broadcasted to the public and their approval rating is updated in real-time as you crawl. it's essentially just another meter that gives bonuses while crawling that you don't ever want to hit zero. once you finish crawling, they will perform an 'election' which is just a popularity poll based on each of your 4 units contributions. the person who wins gets a special bonus for the next dungeon adventure.

anyway, we'll see how it goes. i think if the difficulty ever ramps up this could be a pretty solid little game.
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>>1546026
It doesn't help that they also typically leave the right third of the text boxes unused for no reason, and cut down dialogue as a result. This line had them remove the description of elves having long ears, for example.
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>>1544704
yeah it's pretty out there as a concept, but i think the theming in the game is particularly strong which really adds a lot.
>>1545057
thanks, hope it goes well. i think you'll find dungeon 7 and 8 to be pretty satisfying.
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>>1546046
>interestingly, if you have a clean path, you can auto-map move across multiple floors of a dungeon which i haven't seen before
CH crawlers are unironically at the forefront for auto-movement in the genre.
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>>1545983
>I am astounded that SoSC manages to have an even worse UI than SoSW.
That’s Experience for (you).
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>>1546038
EO1 and to an lesser extent the sequels are really spiteful about level disparity, not only do you get a huge def/atk penalty when a monster is like 10 20 levels towards anyone in your party, it also gives you ambushes galore. All the cheese in that game counter-balances that to some degree, I took a 50 ronin to uberboss and it worked out somehow.
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How exactly does the reviving stuff work in Sword City? One of my goons died and lost a life point, I revived them at the base by fucking about in a dungeon for a while but now they need 3 days to recover the life point thing that they lost, how exactly does time pass? What do I need to do for 3 days to pass and can I know that 3 days have passed? What do people usually do, keep crawling with 5 men or auto run around a bunch until the dead cunt's back?
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>>1546210
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>>1546225
Ah damn so I basically have to fight actual enemies then. Does it make sense to have like an extra party member to sub in when waiting for someone to revive or do I just go at it with 5 dudes?
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>>1546233
>Does it make sense to have like an extra party member to sub in when waiting for someone to revive
Yes. That's why you have extra albeit limited slots. You want to balance how many reserve members you have with how many Freemen you want at base.
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>>1546088
hah, nice. is that maryskelter? i really hope to get to that one as well as moero crystal H some day.
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>>1546301
Yes, Mary Skelter 2, easily the best DRPG from Compile Heart.

>Moero Crystal H
Still haven't played that one myself, I'm waiting for it to go on a bigger sale than it has so far. I enjoyed Moero Chronicle H but I wouldn't give it or Crystal more than 20€.
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>Like Alm more than the other two
>Alm has the worst skills
Great.
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>>1546555
>95% of players will never see Alm's ending
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>tfw no modern drpg in a non-anime style
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>>1546634
IKR. Nothing against anime, but I wish the genre wasn't dead in the west.
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>>1533069
>best

have you PLAYED Grimoire ,8 it's a true gem!
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>>1546886
i will never not believe this to be true
i just will never bother to find out for myself either
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>>1546886
that's a cute and adorable crawler, Cleve is the cute one
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>>1546886
If only the final game looked like this.
The actual game takes like 15% of a screen. Everything else is the UI.
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becoming vaguely concerned if this is a normal floor in stratum 2 of tokyo clanpool

like yeah movement IS fast but this particular pattern makes you swap between normal movement, wall breaks, and jet boots often enough to be tedious. there were at least a ton of charge up stations so maybe you're meant to just jetpack the entire way, but fuck these maps are kind of big.
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>>1547611
if revealing tiles is the most enjoyable part about a dungeon crawler to you, you will love this game.

if anything this game is teaching me what that extreme end of the spectrum might be like. i still kind of think the methodical type like labyrinth of galleria with visible monster encounters makes for the best kind of crawling personally.
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>>1546072
nice, Dungeon 6 is just a pain to navigate, all these timed barriers are annoying.
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>>1547620
i think there's only a few of those, they were more of a pain at first because of that new enemy type which i was too stupid to understand initially.
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I've never played a DRPG in my life. Which one should I start with?
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>>1547781
Wizardry 1
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>>1547781
Wizardry 4.
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>>1547781
Are you a boomer who enjoys getting punched in the face? Wizardry 1-3 for either SNES or PS1
Are you a smelly weeb who enjoys getting punched in the face (but not too much)? Etrian Odyssey Untold
Do you hate turn based combat? Legend of Grimrock
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In Stranger of Sword City is there a better way to identify chest traps than just trying to guess the rarity? I'm tired of getting poisoned and having to spend like 30% of my cleric's mana healing everyone
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mukabu 1 shappire
mukabu 3 stranger
mukabu 2?
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>>1547476
I just checked, and it basically does. The screen size of the "dungeon" and so on isn't really smaller than on that beta screen.
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>>1548157
what did he mean by this
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>>1548642
The secrets of the ancients will be revealed in the next thread.
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>Play a bunch of SOSC yesterday
>Wake up today with my thumb hurting whenever I move it
This is why I never finished Operation Abyss. Experience's games require 10x more inputs than any other company's dungeon crawlers thanks to their shit UIs.
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I was playing SoSC and I think I killed one of the lineage cunts and sold its liver and then later on I got a quest to get that liver. I tried hiding in the place where I fought the dude and he's not showing up again, am I fucked?
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>>1548951
You should see a doctor and not blame a video game. There's much worse interfaces out there, too.
And I'm not kidding. If this happens to you more than just for the first time ever (which might be literally any reason, including sleeping weirdly), that's something that needs to be checked.
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>>1548979
I already know the problem is simply bad genes that cause my wrists and hands to be less resilient than most people's. For that reason I am particularly critical of bad UIs in video games and unergonomic controllers. Experience's UIs are shit, having combat text auto-advance like any other JRPG instead of making you either manually confirm every single line or skip them entirely and then check in the backlog for what happened alone would go a huge way to making it easier to deal with.
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>>1548951
i'm pretty fucking weird but i actually enjoyed the menu dance you have to do to for charge-ups and clock-ups and unity fuckery. that said i would probably get carpal tunnel if played it on pc and not the vita.
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>>1548979
Yeah because him having weak thumbs makes the interface less shit.
>>1548992
Well the interfaces are ass. As such having a sore thumb after a long day of gaming did not strike me as particularily odd. Don't play these for long intervalls, or play them on PC. Due to the high system similarity to old school Wizardry they are one of the few JRPGs that control just aswell with a keyboard as with a controller.
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>>1549135
>that said i would probably get carpal tunnel if played it on pc and not the vita.
Nah, the Vita 1000 models were actually way worse in that regard because of the awkward stick positions due to the lack of space and the face buttons require way more force to depress than any other controller I've used. Shame since the D-pad was fantastic for menuing.
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>>1549202
stress injuries come in different flavors i guess. i used to be a hardcore pc gamer with like thousands of hours in path of exile/sc2 and other dumb shit but had to stop outright due to the nerve pain.

playing on my vita (1000 model) is somehow the most comfortable thing for me and why i play so many games on it.
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i'll toss up a new thread around page 7 or 8 or so
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Beat Dungeon Travelers 2. Anything I should know before jumping to the postgame?



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