>play FFVI as a kid>think Shadow is the coolest motherfucker that ever lived>play FFVI as an adult>realize Shadow is a deadbeat edgelord loser with no friends who abandoned his daughter like a piece of shit
My final party against Kefka is the awkward weirdo collection:>Shadow>Mog>Umaro>Gogo
>>1200169Beat the game as a kid and didn't realize what he meant during the ending. Probably glanced over it I guess, but for years I figured he was gonna try to turn over a new leaf or something. Saw the reality pointed out later, figured they were wrong, looked back, and they were right. Motherfucker just chose death out of nowhere. What in the absolute fuck?
>>1200183Did you never get his flashbacks?
>>1200169>>1200183The fun of Shadow's character is piecing everything together. His character really isn't anything special. After all, he's just a former criminal living under a new identity who regrets leaving his partner for dead and sired a daughter during a brief love affair. But the way you figure it all out, piecing together the clues given to you, from the flashbacks in the inn, to the memento ring , to paying attention to shadow's emotes during his few scenes with Relm, it turns a fairly simple character into something very memorable. I wish more games did stuff like this.
>>1200396I did, actually. I know he and his old partner were train robbers and did a big score. His partner didn't make it so Shadow went into hiding and knocked up Relm's mom, then went back on the run.But I still can't fathom why he'd choose to die right then, right after professing hope. Couldn't be his past catching up to him; society has completely collapsed and his loved ones just help him kill the God of Magic. Don't think the law's gonna be much of a concern now. And the depression/just give up angle? That sure does undercut the fuck out of his newfound appreciation for friends and family. You'd think he'd want to work towards rebuilding himself, strengthening these newfound connections but nope. He realizes he's got no one left to kill for a living and he takes a swan dive into the grave. Shit, not even that's true. There's a huge market for the killing trade in a hostile barren world rife with strong monsters and a massive power vacuum. There's so many reasons why it doesn't work and only the flimsiest dipshit excuses why it "just has to".So, nah. Flashbacks don't salve this. It's not thematic or sympathetic. It's jarring and stupid.
>>1200474I really liked that if Shadow dies in the WOB, that Relm gets a flashback dream sequence in place of Shadow's flashback dream sequence in the WOR.>>1200489Shadow is a parable. Don't be like Shadow. It couldn't be anymore obvious. He straight up tells that to Terra on the boat to Thamasa.>burgers and their addiction to underdogs and the hero's journey is depressingly funny
>>1200169>edgelordIt's a Nomura character , how didn't you find out this sooner?
>>1200531Exactly. Like I said, flimsy dipshit excuses that undercut his own professed growth are all there is.
>>1200588No. You are just too retarded to follow something, when the game literally spoonfeeds it to you. Everything about Shadow is telling you to not be like him.The icing on the cake is that Shadow literally tells you this, and you're still too stupid to understand the meaning from a game aimed at children.You're the dumb kid who thought that the only good version of Little Red Riding Hood was the one where the hunter saves her.
>>1200489doesn't shadow live if you recruit all the characters and do all the sidequests though
>>1200531Yeah, don't be like Shadow! Don't join up with your allies to defeat a mad magical tyrant that almost destroyed the world. Definitely don't acknowledge that you're fighting for your friends and family. It totally makes sense to just give up and die after all that. High tier parable right there.
>>1200604Nope. Commits suicide. >>1200597You're trying to defend his decision to lay down and die, and yet your best defense is weak ad hominem and the same faux deep bullshit that I found ridiculous. It's not that I dislike a sad or bittersweet ending, much as you're loving pretending that it is to feel like a big boy: Shadow's end was abrupt and doesn't follow at all what he says at the final battle. Taking into account his advice on the boat, he appeared to grow beyond that himself, only to throw it away in the final moment out of fucking nowhere. If you've found a way to get emotional over that and turn it into a life lesson, frankly I feel sorry for you that you have to reach so hard for pathos. But as I said, if nothing else, every word you're posting further demonstrates the idiotic forced rationale it takes to think random character suicide is great storytelling (in a game FULL of characters that want to die but find reason to go on)
>>1200604This isn't cheat.cc, you can't just make shit up about video games anymore.Shadow has a few endings.>died in WOB, from not waiting on the Floating Continent>dead in the Veldt Cave in the WOR, from waiting in the WOB but never entering the cave with your party>hanging out at the Colosseum, from waiting in the WOB but saving him in the Veldt Cave but not wagering the Striker in the Colosseum>suicide, from waiting in the WOB and saving him in the Veldt Cave and wagering the Striker in the Colosseum and winning the fightSince the game treats the middle two as "didn't recruit into the final party, try again", they're not really an actual ending, and more of incomplete quest lines. The only reason the first counts, is because it's definitive.>>1200624Yeah, don't be like him. Right when he's shown to be able to turn his life around, and make a positive change in the world, he gives up and kills himself.Not sure why you can follow the events, but can't take that extra step in understanding the meaning in something that 10 year olds understand. The game makes it very clear, don't be like Shadow.
Waitwhat if shadow was gay?
>>1200642What if shadow was trans?
>>1200169>Grow old>Storyline made for 8yo's suddenly not that appealing anymoreYeah, that happens, OP.
to be hoenst if my wife and best friend were dead I'd probably kill myself too, even if I had a dog and a daughterI mean, Relm and Interceptor can take care of each other and the only real threat to them is taken care of probably a good time to make an exit if I was suicidal the entire time
>>1200646is 8 years old the ideal age to play ff6?Of not, which age?
>>1200656I'd say about 11 or 12
>>1200650This guy gets it. Let the loss and despair eat away at you until there's nothing left. Just long for death and disappear. The only way the game could have been better written is if Celes and Cyan succeeded in killing themselves too. And Locke and Setzer. And Strago, and Mog, and Terra and everyone else. That would be such a powerful message.
>>1200635>turn it into a life lessonI didn't do shit, aside from point out the events of the game.It's not my fault you have such a limited view of how stories are told. As I said before, Americans and their addiction to underdogs and The Hero's Journey. You can't even process a story that doesn't give you that. It's a shame that Disney ruined the canon of fairy tales, because your culture doesn't understand the idea of learning from others.You are projecting hard onto Shadow. The dude got screwed over by the Empire, and took revenge upon waking. It wasn't a heroic moment. He didn't grow in that year that Celes was in a coma. He spent his time trying to get a knife that he wanted, did nothing to connect with others, make amends for his past, or make an attempt at having a role in his daughter's life. The way that you get him to join you, is barter with a mercenary. His time fighting, for the knife. He says "..." no matter what is going on, while other characters will not only have things to say, but new things to say. He's not the hero you are trying to sell him as.
>>1200169based and thought logically pilled
>>1200672>I didn't do shitAt least we can agree there.>You're just not sophisticated enough to appreciate narrative whiplashOne day you'll find someone impressed with that smug superior horseshit, sadly today is not that day. And all this stuck up "wahh murrica bad" shit makes you come off like a literal pissy-pants child. And you know what he didn't say "..."? When he instead said he found reason to live in friends and family, right before killing himself.I don't want to keep repeating myself, neither should you. Suffice to say, the shit wasn't presented well, and your attempts to glorify it are falling woefully short.
>>1200635>Shadow's end was abrupt and doesn't follow at all what he says at the final battle.Look at this retard treating the SNES translation as gospel. Look at him and laugh.
>>1200584>It's a Nomura characterI don't think that's right
>>1200624Shadow has lived his life since that one theft killing people for money, judging by his actions he probably wasn't friends with the rest of the cast but gradually accepted that helping them was the most acceptable thing he could use his skills for. His suicide could simply be him deciding the world he fought to bring about doesn't need someone who's only skills are killing people for money.
>>1200736Trouble with that is he says essentially the same in Japanese. "Friends and family are good to have" or something very similar to that is what I've seen from de-Woolseyfied fan translations.
I sympathize with him because I also have friends and family and a future but feel like shit and want to die a little more than I want to be with them and the only thing that makes me feel better is killing human beings. I realize now that the human condition disgusts me.
>>1200800>the only thing that makes me feel better is killing human beings.In Minecraft, right?
>>1200808When I was young I once shot a man and later in my twenties I once tripped a man who was threatening violence against women (he was muslim, it was a racial thing) and let him get hit by a train.Both times I felt an immense wave of relief.
>>1200821>let him get hit by a train.
>>1200821what a chad
>>1200741Both Shadow and Setzer were created by Nomura.
>>1200821Sure you did, cowboy.
>>1200665Half of Shakespeare's tragedies ended that way.
Played T-edition after the thread last week. The rewrite alone made me keep playing the whole thing.The difficulty was enjoyably frustrating.
Was Baram Kefka?
>>1201001Baram was Ghostbro
>>1200736>In the Japanese version of the game, Shadow's line when he stays behind in Kefka's Tower is for Baram to "embrace [him] warmly", being more explicit in Shadow's intention to allow himself to die in the tower's collaps
>>1200924Huh. Didn't know that.
I forget what the bug is but Interceptor disappears for good from something unavoidable if you actually use Shadow regularly. At which point mechanically they are the worst character.
>>1200489He's done, he has secured a future for his daughter. A good one at that. All this time Shadow played as an assassin, a mercenary to pass time, to cope with his mistakes in the past, Baram and Relm, and hopefully die in that field but he did not. His path intertwining with the returners coincidentally made him face one of his mistakes: Relm.It may not have been conveyed properly in the game but it is obvious that Clyde regrets leaving Baram that's why he is hunted by his dreams. In his final dreams we see Relm is there too meaning he is starting to regret leaving her and not being by her side.After destroying Kefka, he secured a peaceful future for Relm. He atoned for the one mistake that he could correct since Baram's already dead.It's a running theme in the game. The cast lost someone or something, they can't move on but it's the only thing they should do. Move forward.
Well if this is the FFVI thread, can someone tell me which is the best version of this game to play? Original snes? Love FF but never touched this one or VIII for some reason
>>1200531Final Fantasy 6 is from japan, eurotard.
>>1203561GBA has the better translation and some more content but SNES looks and sounds infinitely betterIf the PC port wasn't unimaginably ugly it would be the definitive version but they really did a number on that one
>>1200169I thought Relm was Shadow's sister
>>1203561Emulated SNES with a retranslation hack that uses the GBA translation whenever posible. That is the best of north worlds.
>>1203561I recommend FF6 woolsey uncensored. It adjusts some dialog while keeping the charm, and fixes the bugs regarding stats equipment in battle.
>>1203561Vanilla SNES if you want to share the experience most English speakers got.Modded SNES with the GBA script and removed censorship otherwise.
>>1200183The real reason he kills himself is because of the common trend in media to give criminals or murderers that turn around and help the protag a noble sacrifice or something.This is to communicate that 'crime doesn't pay' and that things don't end well for "bad guys".It's dumb, but that's why they do it.
>>1203691Best taste in the thread.
>>1203713he's an assassin anon. after killing the god of magic, he probably felt the world didn't need killers like him anymore. shadow had a bad reputation; think of real world killers like cartel hitmen
>>1202752don't forget, shadow probably had a lot of enemies with scores to settle; if he had stayed with Relm someone would have hunted him or his daughter down eventually.
>>1203785after the world ended, he could make a third, newer life for himself. I just think Shadow's real neat, even if he kinda sucks compared to some of the op characters.
>>1203800>Three of the easily greatest fighters on the planet, on good terms with the rest of the strongest people on the planet including what is likely the only remaining major state power (Figaro Kingdom)>Oh no, some random guy I pissed off a decade ago has returned now everyone's dead.Yeah I'm glad they made him lay down under falling rocks now, because that would have been astronomically retarded. But Terra, Celes and Locke should have killed themselves then too, given they almost certainly made just as many enemies as Shadow if not more. And Terra especially has a whole village full of defenseless innocent bystander children, unlike Shadow who had two people that can clearly take care of themselves in a fight.
>>1203785>he probably felt the world didn't need killers like him anymoreThat doesn't really make sense given the state of the world. Monster pest control should be a booming business, and the fall of the Empire and Kefka should leave a vicious power vacuum that'd make the fall of Rome look like a happy funtime picnic. But yeah okay, I guess he's "done enough"
>>1203814Exactly. The world is still brutal even with Kefka defeated. Someone of his skill set with renewed dedication could help a lot of people. It's a total waste all around and doesn't make sense.
>>1203820>>Three of the easily greatest fighters on the planet, on good terms with the rest of the strongest people on the planet including what is likely the only remaining major state power (Guardia Kingdom)>>Oh no, some random guy I pissed off a dozen millenia ago has returned now everyone's dead.Chrono Cross was a hell of a trip
>>1203861Speaking of bad writing... At least CC had a fantastic ost.
>>1203861Yeah, how in the fuck does Chrono beat Lavos but lose to Dalton?
>>1203892Anon you don't understand: Porre is serious business. One does not fuck with Porre. Lavos? Reptites? Mystics? Zeal? Complete jokes. Practically powerless compared to Porre. Once Dalton got Porre riled up it was all over.
>>1202315The enemy move that does that is rippler, for whatever reason shadow's dog counts as a status effect and is swapped by this. If this happens and you win the fight without having strago in the party to rippler the enemy back you lose the dog forever, but as long as strago has it he can swap it around to whoever you want.
>>1204007using rippler on another target removes it on the last target?
>>1203561PC version with mods. The Atma Weapon installer has some truly awful presets, but you can also use a custom setup that gives you the original style at double the resolution, colours that match the SNES release, decensored sprites, and UI that wasn't designed for mobile. That's on top of all the other improvements (e.g. objective marker, GBA script, extra content) you already get with that version.
>>1200169And people call Vincent for being cucked, this guy ruined his own life in comparison whereas Vincent gets the chance to have revenge and kill Hojo himself who might as well be the founding villain of his own franchise.
>>1200665>version of the game ends up with practically the entire cast deadI guess it would finally be time for /ourguy/ to rise.
>>1205740and worsed of all, Shadow had a daughter, I don't think there's anything more cucked than that
>>1205639Objective marker? LMAO you must be kidding. This is a game that 13 and 14 year olds 100% in 1994.
>>1200736I just watched the SNES english version and he says some shit like I'm going to begin again, it makes zero sense with him choosing to die there (which does fit what the character is actually doing rather than saying).I don't blame anglokids for not getting that he was choosing to die there because the dialog doesn't fit, and I do believe people saying it's clearer that he's killing himself in Japanese.
>>1200691>At least we can agree there.I meant that "I didn't create the events of the story, just pointed them out".>You're just not sophisticated enough to appreciate narrative whiplashI didn't say it was, in fact, I am saying that it's not narrative whiplash. It's an error on your part, for projecting heroic qualities onto Shadow. Because the game was non-stop showing you that he wasn't there for heroic reasons. Then you act surprised when he doesn't act heroically.>Suffice to say, the shit wasn't presented wellIt was. You're just too stupid to follow it.>>1203571>Final Fantasy 6 is from japan, eurotard.Does the Japanese conversation between Shadow and Terra not have the same meaning?
>>1207289The game's script projects that onto him in the final battle. Given the general theme of overcoming despair and embracing the future that ties many of the cast together, not a huge leap to think it might apply to him too. But no, he's the exception. Problem is with the general hoperul tone of the game that's the last thing you want to play subtle, because it clashes with the flow of literally everything else. He might as well have exclaimed Kefka had some good ideas before eating falling rubble.There were better ways to play that. He wasn't even the only character with suicidal ideation. He was just the least focused on in that regard, which doesn't work well with his being the only one to follow through. Especially directly after the big hope and love finale.
>>1206858All suicide dialogue in FF3-US is censored through obscurity. Celes' is as well.
>>1204124No, the anon means:>Shadow get "Rippler"d by mob1>if mob1 dies before getting "Rippler"d again>Interceptor is gone for goodIn 99.9% of battles Interceptor being an undisplayed status effect, doesn't matter.It's just that Rippler swaps status effects with another.
>>1207332>Given the general theme of overcoming despair and embracing the future that ties many of the cast together, not a huge leap to think it might apply to him too. But no, he's the exception.Yes. He makes it very clear, that he is the exception. With his actual words. So, when you see him do something, you are supposed to understand that he isn't doing it for the "right" reasons, but his own.>Especially directly after the big hope and love finale.No bittersweet allowed.You never would have made it through Japanese Showa Henshin Hero TV. All of it ends in a way more depressing way.>"Oh yeah, the hero was having existential crises the entire time, because he feels forever disconnected from humanity.">"Don't worry about this being a possible future for humanity, humans aren't actually capable of being good to each other, to get to this point."Shadow waiting to die, after the actions he did, are incredibly mild. While fitting with the general early 90s angst, that followed from the hopeful 80s.
>>1200665>everyone just killing themselves would be such a powerful messageWhy are first-worlders with easy lives so fucking obsessed with suicide? Is it because you don't actually know real struggle?
>>1207467Diff anon, but I'm pretty sure that post was "role playing" as Kefka, and not a serious post of that anon's beliefs.
>>1207467It's a game with multiple attempted suicides. Being starving and disease ridden in some backwater doesn't mean the topic is forbidden to broach elsewhere.>>1207386The entire ending of Final Fantasy VI is bittersweet with the world destroyed but the cast choosing hope over despair, life over death. Shadow's role in that goes from echoing that sentiment one moment, to suddenly reverting back to where Celes or Cyan or Locke was earlier in the game and ending on that note. It's not good, it doesn't have consistent build up, thematically it's not a good fit, and the execution with him suddenly choosing to get crushed while shooing everyone off is god damned awful. It isn't about it being SAD you insufferable blowhard - Sad endings are FINE, but this is dismissive of the climax and comes off as awkward rather than poignant because it didn't get enough focus and meaningful build up>Hurrr lessomNearly half the fucking cast went through coming to terms with grief and guilt and closing themselves off. If one final retread of that moral, except taking the opposite resolution right at the end, is all there is to defend it then you can just stop defending, it at least to me.
>>1207467>Why are first-worlders with easy lives so fucking obsessed with suicide? Is it because you don't actually know real struggle?I think that's part of it. If your life has a lot of struggles you can dream of a better life when those are resolved. If your life is unfulfilling and unhappy without any clear idea of how to correct that, you start thinking about calling it quits.
>>1200660Literally was the exact age I first played it.And I loved every goddamn minute of it.
>>1207867mah niggaI wonder if it's been too long though which is why I can't rate it accurately any more in my mind.
>>1200169He thought logically
>>1207337oh I get it. So could you theoretically swap it to any other character?
>>1207611it's probably like 90% the result of grooming gangs permanently traumatizing some kids while turning others into literal pagan demon worshippers to torment them forever while being imprisoned in a society that will constantly drug and brainwash them saying their problems don't exist because they can't remember anything after they got ECT after the rape and called the cops and got raped and ECT again because literally every institution that has power is infected with demon worshipping rape clowns from the abrahamic trinity leading a dual life
>>1209031yes, in fact if shadow dies on the floating continent Relm actually has interceptor status instead.
>>1209047take your meds
>>1209132You can't kill me you fucking cuck
>>1209111holy shit I didn't know that! I hardly ever use her though. Damn.
My point about Interceptor was that he also dies on Shadow by the end.
>>1209160He runs off though, doesn't he?
He 'dies' to rippler.