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not from pol just using recent events as an excuse to start a thread ive been wanting to start
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>>1189023
>not from pol just using recent events as an excuse to start a thread ive been wanting to start
Nope
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Vampire: Bloodlines ?
most of the Fallout games?
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>>1189032
I'd only really say New Vegas (and I guess Fallout 2, although nowhere nearly to the same scale) gave you those options. The other Fallout games didn't let you outright topple/neuter government presences outside of simply killing everyone.
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>>1189023
I feel like I should be able to name several but I just keep thinking of games where you do both.
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>>1189051
I wish WotL's 'play as Delita' levels were more interesting.
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Does Final Fantasy 7 count? You're trying to overthrow the dystopian government
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>>1189023
Final Fantasy 4 and 6 along with the Laguna segment in 8, though at the end you end up fighting a god.
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>>1189055
This is the problem I have. I can think of tons of games where you fight the government, be it the evil empire like Vector, or some monolithic megacorp like Shinra, but I can't think of ANY where they're the primary/final antagonist. There's always some greater power or threat beyond just dismantling the oppressive state.
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>>1189055
Well technically only barret is doing that. Cloyd and the others are trying to kill seph
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>>1189062
By the end they're all very much on board to save the planet from Shinra AND Sephiroth. I'd say ever since they spoke with Bugenhagen really. Sephiroth/Meteor just takes priority.
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Oh! Suikoden!! And Suikoen 2! There we go.
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>>1189023
Assassins Creed Black Flag, kinda.
Fable 2.
Gothic 3, you can side with the orcs and kill the human king.
The Saboteur on some level, not an RPG but its a game about french resistance against the nazi occupation in WW2 paris
Outer Worlds, you can either side with or against the galactic government
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>>1189023
Mount & blade Warband / 2. You can overthrow kings and become your own government, with blackjack and hookers.

If you want to stretch the definition of RPG, Crusader Kings 2/3 allows you to play as a minor noble in a kingdom and plot to overthrow the king.
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>>1189061
Suikoden 1 maybe
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>>1189082
Second Warband, especially if you get one of the enhanced vanilla mods that lets you execute captured lords.
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>>1189051
FFT isn't about either of those things.
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final fantasy 12
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>>1189061
Good old Suikoden coming through for me. Maybe Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen, depending on what Rashidi's goals were. I honestly forget.

I wanna say Fire Emblem 6, 7, and Yggdra Union but once again, there looms a larger threat than the regime pulling the strings. Feels like Suikoden is the only one that played it (mostly) straight.
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>>1189055
Yeah but then the plot gets railroaded into aliens. I get OP's complaint. There are plenty of games where you either stop insurrection or lead it but it always gets tossed out of the window for something supernatural.
Radiant Historia stayed pretty on point when it came to the political subterfuge, but there was plenty of time travel bullshit in there. It wasn't bad but still.
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>>1189111
Overthrowing and reforming the oppressive class system in Ivalice was an important aspect of FFT's story, even if it wasn't Ramza's primary concern. I shudder to imagine how far one would have to bend over backwards to try and prove it wasn't central to the events of the game.

Aside from that, Altima was an otherworldly godlike entity that threatened the world. How narrow a definition of 'final boss is god' are we going for here? St. Ajora was modeled after Jesus Christ.
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>>1189143
>it wasn't Ramza's primary concern
Which means it doesn't fit the criteria of "you overthrow the government." If anything, it's the exact opposite. Ramza is fighting to prevent the government from being overthrown.
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>>1189169
You do realize Ramza's actions were pivotal in toppling the three leading political powerhouses, yes? He fought them directly and Delita's plan would not have succeeded without him.
>Ramza was fighting to prevent the government from being overthrown
Did you not make it past The Meager? Ramza was fighting to spare innocents from being sacrificed as pawns by the state and even more sinister forces. And later, to rescue his sister. Ramza didn't give a fuck about the Princes or Dycedarg retaining their power, nor did he buy into Izlude's spiel about supporting Murond's bid. Which makes sense given he made enemies of all three and helped cripple them.
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>>1189134
Radiant historia is exactly why i started this thread actually. I was expecting pure time travel shenanigans when i first started but the abundance of actually interesting political situations got me wondering if theres a game that entirely focuses on that aspect without the need of a "greater evil" poping up.
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Unironically, Trails of Cold Steel
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>>1189213
In Sen 1 and 2, it's about stopping an insurrection and defending the Government.
In Sen 3 and Sen 4, it's about stopping a a high ranking Government official who has gone rogue.
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It's funny, I've played Tactics Ogre LUCT more recently than FFT but barely remember what was going on by the end. Was beating up that smug cyclops swordsman and his buddies still about politics, or were they doing some world destroying shit? I remember something about Bakrams and putting that annoying bitch brocon on the throne but then it's all a blur.
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>>1189199
For the majority of the game Ramza is trying to stop the church from weakening the populace's faith in their governments and stepping in as the new rulers. Regardless of the reasons behind his actions, he's fighting to stop someone from overthrowing the government.
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>>1189254
Beating up smug cyclop swordman was still about politics since he was trying to use the annoying bitch brocon as figurehead leader to basically turn your country into protectorate of his own nation because his current allies, the Bakram, were getting pretty impopular.
But right afterward 3 of his underlings betray him to try and use the holy sword to open a gate to fantasy hell. So you beat them up, they open the gate anyway and you end up having to fight the former king (fantasy Broz Tito, also brocon's dad) who turned into a demon.
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>>1189275
For the majority of the game he's trying to unite the factions not only against the Murond-Glabados Church for exacerbating the civil war, but far moreso against the Lucavi which are the real threat within the church (made clear by Draclau, whom he was first petitioning as a neutral party to protect Ovelia from getting bumped off by Gallione).

I cannot fathom where you get the idea that Ramza had any love for the powers that be in Gallione and Zeltennia. It's clear to me his main concern was reducing the total number of innocent victims like Teta.

In either event, Ramza's actions lead directly to the assassination of Larg and Goltana and he killed Marquis Elmdor, Duke Dycedarg and General Zalbag personally (all under shit circumstances but still). Not to mention saving Ovelia, an illegitimate pretender to the throne. It's hard not to give Ramza some credit for toppling the status quo.
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>>1189328
>he's trying to unite the factions
He never once mentions the idea of unity. It's always "stop fighting there's shady shit going down behind the scenes."
You're free to cite a single line where he suggestion both orders unite, but I know you won't, if only because no such line exists.
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>>1189328
>he killed Marquis Elmdor, Duke Dycedarg and General Zalbag personally
They were more or less already dead. Ramza just cut their strings. He did fuck over Larg and Goltana though.
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>>1189348
>He never once mentions the idea of unity
His plan was to use the Germonik Scriptures to convince the leaders of the Knight Orders - Zalbag and Orlandu respectively - to both fight Murond and suss out the monsters in their ranks. It doesn't matter if he literally said it, that was the goal. And he probably said as much talking to Zalbag (I'd have to check), or otherwise I clearly remember Izlude saying exactly that to Alma as a message to Ramza.

Gimme a sec, I know I can at least find Izlude's direct statement to that effect, if not one from Ramza as well.
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>>1189350
Dycedarg killed Larg (facilitated by the church) and Goltana was outright killed by church shenanigans.
>>1189361
You're not going to find it dude. Refer to his meeting with Zalbag at the start of chapter 3. He just wants the war to stop.
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>>1189023
Final Fantasy XII, while veering on some great fantastical beasts, does kind of stay on the political path for the majority of the story.
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>>1189371
>(facilitated by the church)
Facilitated by the chaos caused in the attack on Bethla Garrison, the subsequent flood Ramza caused, as well as the Mosfungus gas attack by Balk.

>>1189371
>You're not going to find it dude.
Sorry it took longer than I thought. Here you go.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F97NSY2ll1E

At time 5:35:12 - Conversation between Olan and Ramza at Grog Hill.
"Some are urging Larg and Goltana for gain. We're in the palm of their hands...They're the real ones to beat."

At time 6:21:48 - Conversation between Izlude and Alma in Riovanes Castle
"What Ramza said was true...the world will end...if we don't kill him...Tell everyone...not time to fight...must cooperate."
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>>1189429
Looking at it again, the flood didn't play as big a role in causing confusion as I thought. Larg died before it, and Delita was just happy to use it as an excuse to keep the armies fresh and prevent the church from gaining more influence, which was also Ramza's intention. But Delita'd have killed Goltana then either way. Oops.
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How is no one mentionning Deus Ex lol ?
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>>1189475
That's an RPG? Also can't you just as well choose to side with the Illuminati/Government? I mean, I didn't, because I support technological progress and freedom of innovation. But one could choose to be wrong.
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>>1189475
And if Deus Ex is an RPG should we count some Metal Gear installments too?
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Yggdra Union. Why not both?
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>>1189075
>Assassins Creed Black Flag, kinda.
Which government would you be referring to? Certainly not the British government - no such thing happened in the game's story.
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>>1189488
>>1189492
>being in doubt that Deus Ex is an RPG

What?
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>>1189029
locked
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>>1189213
you also do both in crossbell
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>>1189023
In Front Mission 3 you shoot the White House in the final mission of Emma's route IIRC
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>>1189023
>pgs where instead of killing god you overthrow the government?
This is one of my biggest pet peeves with jrpgs as well. Why the fuck is a country as superstitious as Japan so obsessed with killing god? Perfectly serviceable plots regularly devolve into cliched bullshit when the supernatural plot twist is revealed.
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>>1190258
Japanese RPGs aren't unique in that. God, Demon, Ancient Evil, it's all basically the same shit, serves the same purpose.
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>>1189113
Fire emblem 5 is probably the one most government toppling focused of them.
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>>1190353
>God, Demon, Ancient Evil, it's all basically the same shit, serves the same purpose.
Fuck no. The themes are completely different between generic demon/ancient evil trying to conquer the world and mainstream religion is actually a front for doomsday shenanigans/evil deity torturing the world in secret.
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>>1189023
That's basically the plot of Tyranny.
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>>1189201
At the very least in Radiant Historia, you're trying to fight for a greater cause from the start and overthrowing the government is a means to an end from the get go unlike in other games where the greater evil shows up in the last act after you accomplished your original goal of overthrowing the government.
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>>1189023
Based Marche did that and people hate him for that.

Truly, the hero we need but don't deserve...
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>>1190365
>The themes are completely different
It essentially comes down to fighting oppression and "save the world" at the end of the day.

>mainstream religion is actually a front
Rarely is deicide played straight in a way that makes it truly different from the BBEG making a deal with "dark powers". Mainly because organized religion rarely plays a huge role alongside it. Big examples of that being FFT, BoF2 & Xenogears, and in each of those, the final boss isn't actually the one true God but an ancient evil deceiving the populace. And surely you wouldn't say demons tricking people is thematically owned by JRPGs.

And those are the exceptions. Most of the time mainstream religion isn't even significant, and the final boss being a God or a Devil is mostly aesthetic. Bird wings or bat wings, dark fire or golden lightning. The same supernatural stakes most WRPGs fall back on with a different coat of paint.
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>>1189816
You do have an opportunity to raid every fort in the Caribbean and kick out both the brits and the spanish, and then fly assassin / pirate flag over them.

Idk it's not 'overthrowing the government' per se but it still feels like you're taking over the islands.
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>>1189475
you're not overthrowing the government in deus ex. bob page and MJ12 are the antagonists, and although they gain power over the government that doesn't mean they represent them directly.
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>>1190745
>you're not overthrowing the government in 2021. Jeff Bezos and Big tech are the antagonists
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>>1190258
the final boss being a god or godlike being is in no way exclusive to JRPGs. just like with JRPGs, a lot of the most popular WRPG series feature gods as final bosses (for example baldur's gate, elder scrolls)
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>>1190751
explain how you're "overthrowing the government" in deus ex then.
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>>1189143
>Altima was an otherworldly godlike entity that threatened the world
Nah
He was a slightly bigger Dragon.
Then again
>Altima
>godlike
Pick one. The civil war in FFT happens regardless of the Zodiac orbs, but the Zodiac orbs means you get a sub-faction going full retard despite having too little manpower to pull it off.

Ramza's goal in FFT is to stop the civil war.
The spooky shady shit just means the plot is several chapters longer and derails.

>>1190353
>>1190499
It would be the same, if the execution wasn't so different.
Gothic is a completely different beast to FF13
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games where you coup a puppet government and install a theocracy?
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>>1190774
>FF13
I'm afraid I haven't messed with FF much since 9, technically 10. So ya got me there.

>Nah
Eh, depends on how you define godlike I guess. The whole Jesus Christ thing is pretty on the nose, and the game hypes the fuck out of her. The descriptions of her job class and job command say stuff like "Transcends existence by causing absolute waves" and "Set free by truth, which controls the universe. Her deeds rise above good and evil" and "The ultimate being, a status achieved by a Holy Angel. Brings chaos or order and beginnings or endings to worlds."

But then she's pretty susceptible to getting hit with a sword or shot in the head so...I dunno.

Menu bullshit aside, seems like she was a super powerful demon capable of causing catastrophes on a continental, if not global scale. Memory's fuzzy but I think she all but obliterated Old Murond and the island is a small part of what's left. Plus she can revive her Satanic homeboys.

>Ramza's goal in FFT is to stop the civil war.
Ramza also helped cause the civil war by aiding Ovelia against his brother's wishes. Because Ramza's main goal is to not let innocents die if he can help it. Was he out to stop the Church's plot? Yes, but never for the sake of rulers. He just wanted people not to die in vain, whatever the case.

Meanwhile our anti-hero Delita wanted to tear down the system and institute reform, which he did largely by manipulating and taking advantage of all major players including Ramza. His actions largely overlap Ramza's so its hard to ignore him or his motivations. Thus the element of social upheaval is present in the game.
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>>1189023
Pathfinder Kingmaker kind of but not really. You go off to the frontier and form a vassal state that can then cut ties from the ruling government that sponsored you.
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ogre battle
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>>1189023
I've got the game you're looking for. It's exactly as you say. No more, no less.

Bahamut Lagoon.
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>>1191678
What was his problem?
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>>1191857
JIHAD
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>>1189072

Came here to name them. Their entire plotlines are building up a revolutionary force and executing said revolution.
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>>1189023
Nobody mentions Skyrim? I guess nobody did the civil war quest. I don't blame you.
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>>1190964
>He just wanted people not to die in vain
And the best way to do that is to STOP THE CIVIL WAR.
Even if you want to stick to your stupid line of thinking there's no way to twist it into thinking he was fighting to topple the current government.
>>
Saying that Ramza wanted to stop the war to preserve the ruling government makes no sense when A) That result is coincidental at best as he tries to prevent more victims among the army and populace, B) He winds up killing the remaining faction leaders to prevent more victims, and C) He helped set the current civil conflict in motion to prevent another victim.

This idea that some of his actions could have benefited the nobility is just obsessive tunnel vision. The bottom line is Ramza did a lot more to destabilize Ivalice's leadership than promote it while also neutralizing the church, leaving Delita the last man standing. And so long as the Lucavi were stopped that's a win for Ramza.

>>1192866
>stupid
But just barely smart enough to remember dialogue that you didn't.
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>>1189061
>There's always some greater power or threat beyond just dismantling the oppressive state.
Hmm... you don't say...
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>>1192971
Except in Suikoden. Technically. Not counting Wendy since her threat was neutralized before the emperor was.
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>>1192958
>he didn't want to preserve the ruling class
>this OBVIOUSLY means he was trying to overthrow the government!
Monolithic leap in logic there dude.
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>>1192986
His intention was not to topple the government OR save it. It was to prevent further loss of innocent lives.

However, Ramza's actions DID contribute to the fall of the government and by the same token Delita's ascension. But in spite of the overthrow of the government and his undeniable role in it, Ramza still succeeded in what he was actually trying to do.
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>>1193001
>His intention was not to topple the government
Thanks for finally admitting it.
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>>1193005
I admitted it a looong time ago. Way way back when I said it wasn't his primary concern. But I'm more than happy to be defeated. Thanks for the discussion, I enjoyed it!
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>>1189023
One of the campaigns in Dragon Force 2 has you form a resistance movement for the persecuted elf-people and go around overthrowing all the countries of the continent.
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>>1189023
In most RPGs, acting evil usually locks you out most content (as it should because randomly killing people should mean less people are willing to work with you). I was thinking about an RPG that does the opposite in order to give a feeling of a state run media. The government run smear campaigns against you and the game makes deliberate contradictions of what NPCs say and your in-game experience.
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>>1193043
Reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJKSS5X1oHQ
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>>1190964
FFT has a narrative advantage over most other games in the medium. The story you play do not take place in the present, its instead really about a historian who founds decent source material on how the civil war back in the day actually went down.
And as such, exotic titles or even lost technology gets a extra +1 in its description.

So while the mantling of Ultima is significant, its nothing special in itself.
What Saint Ajora did is even closer to what you do in FF6, since drawing out and mantling the power do not lead to possession.
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>>1193051
Not an RPG and that is pretty cringe. I meant in the sense even the average person is your enemy. More "humanity is barely worth saving" and less "fight the power" power fantasy. No plucky freedom fighters with an impossible level of hacking skills against evil boomers but pieces of shit terrorists fighting a piece of shit government controlling shitty people.
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>>1193078
The news segment gimmick in it just sounded similar to what you said about smear campaigns and NPCs misrepresenting facts.
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>>1189023
Etrian Odyssey
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I don't remember the details, but I do remember that in FEDA: Emblem of Justice you play as a pair of political dissidents, join a resistance movement and wage war on the government. Pretty sure you're not saving the world.
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>game says you should overthrow the king because he has become corrupt
>he really wasn't very corrupt
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>>1189424
i really wished it was finished as a remake than a half-assed plot that cuts off in the middle after meeting Cid. i was enjoying it all unravelling up to that point
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>>1189023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNnXbW2a5BQ

Pretty much the whole first act.
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>>1189023
This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n86DHZVEVs

I guess there's this too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzCEdSKMkdU
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>>1189488
>Not choosing the Tracer Ted ending
ngmi
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>>1189023
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>>1193078
That sounds like BoF4
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>>1189023
To a lesser extent: Skyrim
Also...
Fallout 2 and 3
Final Fantasy 12
Final Fantasy 2 (the real one)
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>>1196913
tracer dumb
>>
What are some games where I can join a Hobbes-tier state and crush bands of criminals, anarchists, and separatists?
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>>1189072
But the true runes caused Barbarossa and Luca’s madness same for Arshtat in 3. Shut government is just a side effect but Luca did nothing wrong so this entire discussion reeks of glownigger
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>>1198016
Err Arshtat in 5.
III is basically the same except the empire in that one isn’t that bad and the Harmonians are false flagging them to make themse terrible. Nobody knows the plot of IV as it’s /trash/
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>>1197976
I'm also interested in this.
I don't want to fight the system, I want to be the system.
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>>1197976
Disgaea sort of?
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>>1198016
Barbarossa wasn't totally nuts though. His big issue is he fell in love with Wendy's psychobitch ass and stopped giving a fuck about the empire to cater to her. If the Sovereign rune was twisting his mind like the Beast rune was for Highland, it was way more subtle at least. So subtle that Barbarossa came off more as a fallible man and corrupt ruler more than a crazed puppet of larger forces (that was more Wendy's gig)
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>>1194931
You kill the leader but I don't think the Radha are overthrown. I think Quinn just succeeds Chief Visil.
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>>1189023
> im not b8
You play as the prez in Shadow President and Cyber Judas and get overthrown yourself.
Otherwise pretty much every Suikoden game and ROT3K games where you can fight against Cao Cao who dindus and was a good gahmen official.
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>>1191678
>>1191857
>>1191879
>FREEDOM
>JIHAD

Yall need some semen demons.
>>
>>1200898
OST
https://youtu.be/S_NNArYc3ZU
>>
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>100 posts in
>no Liberal Crime Squad yet
Disgusting and disappointing.



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