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08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
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Whats the most controversial RPG opinion you hold?
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They're considered Metroidvanias, albeit very, very linear ones. The newer one is just straight up a Metroidvania.
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Skill checks in games like New Vegas suck. I don't mind them occasionally being "I win" options but they shouldn't always guarantee a better outcome (Dean is the one exception) and sometimes instead of mindlessly pressing the speech option it should instead unlock the option for the player to attempt to convince them. Arcanum would do this and it's great, one of the first speech checks the player is likely to deal with is highwaymen on a bridge, speech doesn't instantly make them leave you alone, instead it gives you the option to try and spin a bullshit narrative in order to convince them you actually are part of a thieves guild who has heard about them, and they need to move because they're encroaching on someone else's territory, and also tell them to give you some cash to smooth things over with the other gang. That or sometimes require you to actuall back up what you're saying, like in Fallout 1 where you can convince the master his plan is flawed, but unless you have some actual concrete evidence he won't believe you. Again I don't mind having them be just "press button, win argument" at times but they need to add more variety to them.
It's not about player skill, the point of an RPG is to play a role. RNG is the equivalent of natural imperfection and unpredictability, it's a mechanic meant to illicit higher stakes, tension, and immersion.
I feel like this only really got bad in five.
I appreciated FFXII more when I realized it's just RTWP on a whole even more autistic scale.
Only fucking morons who had no taste and no common sense to look for better options back when they owned a GBA believe Golden Sun is good.
>Should two players of identical skill performing the exact same actions be able to have wildly different results due to digital dice rolls
It depends on the game they are playing. You have such stunted view about what games are I'm not even sure where to begin. How about the fact that a (gridiron) football is deliberately shaped so that it will bounce unpredictably? A rugby ball is shaped the same. What's the role of a manager or head coach on a sports team? It's to optimize his teams odds of winning.

>talking about sports on a basket-weaving forum
They are games. Strategic and tactical decision-making is about optimizing your odds of winning. Chance may also forces you to adapt and change your plans. That's the a big thing differentiating an RPG battle from a puzzle. If one of your character's has an unlucky roll and is immobilized, you then have to decide whether the better move is to restore that character's movement or leave him stuck and do something else. It's about doing risk/reward and cost/benefit analysis on the fly as conditions change.

Games that go outside these bounds usually criticized. In the late 90s, games would sometimes have random/unpredictable pathing and you could wind up wiping for reasons you could not have reasonably predicted and yielded consequences you could not handle. Most RPGs aren't like that though.

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Best rpg ever. Change my mind
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There is no "best" rpg. Only your favorite.
>they don't want a repeat FES/P3P situation.
Why not? Why wouldn’t you want to sell the same game three times?
They can just do that by porting Royal to Switch instead of making a brand new different version and running into the same debates P3 gets over which one is "definitive" and whether FeMC should be acknowledged or not.
Its been a long time since I have enjoyed turn based rpgs, essentially since Diamond/Pearl. Playing P5 made me respect what they could be more, though it more of a life sim than about building an actual team comp. I think more simplistic turn based games should go that route.
How is there even a debate over FeMC? The only game that acknowledges their existence outside of portable is PQ2. Hell even dancing in moonlight ignores them but still has Theodore as dlc. It seems pretty clear how fatlus feels about her.

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Our first anniversary is coming. We should make some drawthreads like in the good old days to celebrate.
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I never saw the origin of Wes until today. This is some funny shit.
No one cares about these gay OCs
YOU'RE gay

How canon is persona q and q2+ dancing spinoffs + arena games + strikers? Atlas says they are canon to the main timeline but I find that hard to believe because they were turned into fucking cartoons twice and didn't talk about it. And akechi was in the prince outfit so obviously its not after the events of 5, and it takes place during that game.
I haven't finished Q2, but Q being canon or not literally doesn't matter as everyone's memories are wiped.
They're all cannon.
Q2 pulls the PT from the point in time when they're working through Sae's Palace. So Akechi is working with them, and is using Robin Hood, but the PT also know that he's planning to betray them.
And yeah, another memory wipe at the end (although the last scene implies Joker may actually remember part of it), so the betrayal and the ruse both happen as normal.

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>hates the ruling class
>his father is part of the ruling class who he greatly admires
nice writing
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>hates nobles
>rean is one of the good ones
>eventually, blonde bitch is also considered by one of the good ones by him
Machias you racist cunt.
He hates the nobility not the ruling class.
He hates the nobles and even explains why, his cousing would not have died if her fiance was just a rich commoner and not a noble
Machias is the best character because of the crazy stuff he’s constantly shouting.
its actually good writing
>i hate all X, except the one i personally know and am emotionally attached to

is something that really happens in real life all the fucking godamn time

Only a few days left to get Shiren 5 (and other stuff like Omega Labyrinth Life, Sorcery Saga, One Way Heroics, and DragonFangZ) while they're discounted on Steam. Unfortunately, Touhou Genso Wanderer didn't go on sale this time around.
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Most of those games are roguelites at best, Cladun especially is just a diablolike without death mechanics, all you lose when you die in a dungeon is your loot, most of the game's dungeons are fixed too so it's not even a proper roguelite.
Edge cases are fine. The (and adjacent games) part is there for a reason. Otherwise, it's just needless gatekeeping.
>Otherwise, it's just needless gatekeeping.
Most of those games are not even roguelites, Baroque is a fucking first person dungeon crawler like King's Field, Cladun games are Diablo meets Zelda, Katana Kami is a diablo clone etc., they have literally nothing to do with actual Roguelikes, and don't make me talk about things like Grandia or Lufia/Estpolis which do not even remotely classify as an edge case.
Even without considering how roguelites aren't roguelikes this isn't gatekeeping.
Not the same anon but Grandia Xtreme is very much an edge case. Admittedly it lacks stuff like permadeath (checkpoint starvation instead) but it has 3 randomly generated dungeons that qualify it. It's different from the rest of the Grandia games, which are standard JRPGs.
>Baroque is a fucking first person dungeon crawler like King's Field
But with procedurally generated dungeons and losing all your items, equipment, and exp upon death.

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Made a list of the potions worth crafting for selling in Skyrim. They are also good for leveling up Alchemy quickly, hope you like it.

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thank you anon, you have earned one rare pepe

>fans beg for a sequel for 14 years
>finally comes out
>no one gives a shit about it
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everyone is avoiding the leaker trannies (You) obviously
This. Only opened this thread because it's on /vrpg/ where nothing ever happens and it only had 3 replies
The leak really killed pre-release hype, because I've been avoiding any of it's threads like the plague. I already have it pre-ordered though and will have the week off, so I can play through the game quickly
I've played it. ama.
My pre-ordered copy is supposed to arrive tomorrow so I won't have to avoid the threads for too much longer.
Honestly though, the plot doesn't have any major twists and turns or anything so there's really nothing to spoil lmao.

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I've recently taken to the habit of looking up game specific damage/other calculations in RPGs, and wondered what the purpose of constants in these damage/misc formulas.

For instance, a damage formula for Ogre Battle 64 has the following: (Str_Boost + Class_Bonus)*(Raw_Str + 50)*(Total_Dex + 100)/100,000
Now, what purpose is there to the +50 and +100 in this formula. Is it to somehow account for complications with integers turning into floating point decimals and risking rounding errors?

Furthermore, games like the Dragon Quest series have the following damage formula: Attack/2 - Defense/4.
Now, I understand that this formula's implication is that two additional points in attack will reflect in an extra point in damage, and that 4 points of additional defense will reduce said damge, but why are the constants needed to begin with? is it to allow players to have the satisfaction in greater numbers while simultaneously maintaining a sense of balance? I'm just not certain on why it is necessary to do such a thing.
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You can set invites to have unlimited uses and no expiration.
I enjoyed a casual playthrough of the first 2 hours when your party consists solely of Ryu; prolly for the same reasons I enjoy DQ1 quite a bit. couldn't be bothered to keep going once you attained more characters. was just a bit generic after that.
i just want to say this was a very nice thread op. Good job. I enjoyed reading it very much
sure thing anon. feel free to make another thread akin to this one yourself once it dies.
One of the good things about 4chan is that at its best (AT ITS BEST! AND ONLY THEN!) anonymity allows for ideas to be more important than personalities. I've enjoyed reading this thread.

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Am I about to have fun?
It's really linear and simple and the combat is literally automatic, but it's definitely a fun game.
The style of humor and the inclusion of meta elements are far ahead of their time

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Who should be in my good-aligned party?
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Man it's such a shame Baeloth isn't available as companion in BG2, i can only imagine his banters with Viconia and Edwin. Mark Meer does such a good job with his voice but instead of cool drow we got fucking RAASAD as companion. Such a waste.
Ajantis being a companion is non-canon even within the scope of the original games. Neither of you recognise each others' voices when you meet in BG2, and it's made clear that even when under the illusion you retain your original voices.
A sorcerer would have been nice to have in BG2 as well.
To think people actually disappointed by the lack of an EE companion.
>To think people actually disappointed by the lack of an EE companion.
I'm not. They're all shit and obnoxious as fuck. That anon's a retard with shit taste.
what a strange party

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What are the most atmospheric rpgs?
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no you're thinking of professional developers, but that was before you were born
It's called Morrowind Rebirth.


Or, if you're more ambitious, wait three years until the Morrowind portion of Tamriel Rebuilt is complete.
inXile and a bunch of people who worked on Arcanum, including the most important one, the writer (Chadwick Moore) are making an "AAA RPG game". Some rumours leaked that it will be something related to Arcanum's setting.
What are the main differences between the two? I always hear that D1 is more of a dungeon crawler, but the gameplay looks basically the same to me.

What role would she have played as a Phantom Thief
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She's just Yukiko if Yukiko randomly said anime attack names instead.
So, she'd be really fucking boring.
Best design underused
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She definitely would have been the yamato nadeshiko of the game had she been in and certainly the strategic brains of the phantom thieves because of the shogi champion shtick. Makoto either wouldn't be a phantom thief at all or her role in the group and her attitude would have to be totally reworked
>I doubt that Atlus changed her personality that much given their track-record on himicut girls.
Just being the cool-headed strategist by itself would've been more of a personality than all of Persona's himecut girls combined. It also would've given the four girls (Ann, Makoto, Futaba, "Hifumi", because Haru was supposed to be a guy originally) a lot better of a dynamic together compared to Haru just being a bunch of nothing and Makoto talking over everyone.
Hifumi best girl. Himecut > othercut

Also the P5A OVA gave her a good spotlight.

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It's bad.

Every aspect of the gameplay is sub-par. The quest design is equally terrible. The only saving grace it really has is the story, which isn't even all that amazing, and stumbles because CDPR jackknifed into relying on foreknowledge of the books, despite the fact that the 1st and 2nd games were designed with non-readers in mind. They expect players who never read the books to instantly lust after Yennefer (Who is poorly set up and introduced), despite the fact that they would've spent 2 games waifuing Triss and never seeing Yenn?

It's legitimately one of the most overrated games of all time.
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Don't you just casually chat with Foltest amd Radovid? Aren't the two villains you kill the two most powerful mages on earth? How does that qualify as "just some monster slayer"?
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Even Gwent is good.
Kill yourself
Tits or GTFO.
Don't quit there, the DLC is significantly better than the game and the "bad" ending fits better anyhow. Plus if you let her die and reject both love interests you get to retire at the end of Blood and Wine with your bro Dandelion.

You might not like Blood and Wine because in quite a few paths everyone ends of dead, but DESU I thought this made it more fun and more like the short stories.

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>PC kills a bunch of orcs with a spear
>she gets xp from that
>it's enough to level up
>spends her points to increase her lockpicking skill

>PC kills a bunch of orcs with a spear
>her skill with the spear increases
>other skills like combat experience, skirmishing, combat initiative, etc. might increase as well
>if the PC wants to increase her lockpicking skill she has to pick locks, practise lockpicking, read lockpicking manuals, train with tutors, etc.

Why does /v/ prefer the first option when it's objectively inferior to the second one for handling level up mechanics?
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Not him but you guys have made the wrong assumption that a system where skills are increased by using skills, leads to boring grinding. I think you believe that, because of TES games and afaik they are the only video games which use such a system. But in TES games skills advance way way too often and that's not really how the system works in trpgs. In Skyrim it feels like even if you don't know what you're doing, your skills increase every five minutes.
>Hard class-based systems are inherently flawed, since they prevent hybrid archetypes from existing or demand the creation of a separate class as a fix.
So does multiclassing.
You should stop looking at systems from the perspective of 'what can you do', because that is an unrealistic and disingenuous approach.
Being able to put on a character sheet some combination that is absolutely mechanically terrible has not allowed that kind of character to be made in a genuine sense. Only builds that meet a certain minimum level of viability count as real options for the player to take, and class based systems tend to have just as many if not more distinct viable playstyles than you can produce with multiclassing.

Look at what people actually do in multiclassing systems. They just build towards a hand full of archetypes and take dips in what ever mechanically aids them in this. They end up having a convoluted looking character sheet that could mechanically have just been handled by a single class that makes thematic sense instead of having what would be, if strict roleplaying was enforced, an absurd character backstory.

If we take your example, a system that has a fighter, a cleric, and a wizard, it would be far better to add a paladin, a spellsword, and a theurgist class to the mix, because those can all be balanced properly. With multiclalssing what you end up with is a situation that looks something like cleric-wizard hybrid is never actually used because it inevitably stays too weak as it only has low level spells, the fighter-wizard hybrid becomes a gimmick where a weaker fighter uses mainly utility cantrips and actually the player realizes next time they shouldnt bother, and the fighter-cleric becomes the only really heavily used hybrid and it develops a cult following which argues over optimization of it.
So the game gets changed with special rules for multiclassing try and fix them, and so on.
Best to just design complete balanced classes.
>A player will gladly spend 5000 in-game gold or 5 titanites or whatever to try out a new weapon, but he won't spend his free time to grind for the same goal.
If you're using the Souls games, that's not what happens. You try out a weapon BEFORE upgrading it and specializing in it, especially when resources are scarce. In DS3, you can only get 4-5 +10 weapons, so you won't have every weapon available to use.

>If your best catchup mechanic is barely disguised cookie clicker, your game has issues.
To be fair, you only need to catch up if you're playing with an unleveled world mod. In vanilla Skyrim, you generally level up fast enough and the world scales well enough that you don't need to catch up ever.
>as soon as two skills are good enough to be used wihout grinding, the player decides to avoid all grinding and sticks to two skills instead of exploring hundreds of potentially interesting combinations.
And Skyrim, for example, is great in that regard, since most skills can be used without grinding - your combat skills get better by fighting, your thief skills by thieving. The only skills that really demand grinding are the crafting ones, which you want to engage in because they make you wealthy. Many XP-based systems are even worse, since they don't let you explore combinations(if they use classes, like with Dragon Age or D&D games) or make the process of reaching a combination incredibly tedious and dull (such as Dark Souls, where some hybrids are useless until mid or even late game).
In Skyrim, grinding mostly exists if you want to power level a skill to get to the high-end content, but that's to skip the beginning and mid levels, when you never need to.

>don't make players spend basic gameplay time grinding.
XP systems are worse in that department. MMOs are notorious for their grinding, since you have to kill hundreds of trash mobs to level up.
>you guys have made the wrong assumption
Nope, all "do X to get better at X" systems automatically lead to issues because of their specializing nature.
The issue won't necessarily be increased grinding, at the end of the day you might spend less time spamming muffle than you'd spend using illusion spells in combat, the issue will always be distorted player behaviour.
It's not that different from stealth takedown bonuses turning into "let's knock out everyone instead of sneaking by", perverse incentives lead to unnatural gameplay.

>in DS3
DS3 is shit and irrelevant and the limit on +10s is completely artificial due to the limited amount of slabs for NG cycle (no limit on +9s which are 95% of the way there in terms of power, +4 vs+5 for boss weaps is rougher tho), let's talk literally any other game in the series including BB.
Of course you try the unupgraded weapon out to gauge the moveset and shit like that, but you try weapons out AT ALL because you know it will only take a few minutes to upgrade the weapon to be nearly on par with your main gear.
If weapon level was upgraded by directly using the weapon, you wouldn't even bother looking at new unupgraded gear, same way most people didn't even consider maxing out weapons in DeS: too much time for too little return.
>but pure XP systems are worse!
Never said there were good either: there are a million hybrid solutions possible.
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I don't think there is any getting through to that anon. No matter how much you point out that repetitive grinding of mundane no risk no challenge uninteresting activities isn't fun. No matter if you point out that realistically walking around talking to basic generic NPCs looking for a trainer and living a boring apprentice's life isn't exciting to play or watch. No matter if you point out that anon's example game actually has some flaws and it's boring and immersion breaking to level up some skills. No matter if you point out that fade to black training with an NPC is not really different than fade to black training as you level up. No matter if you point out that all of their options are tedious busy work and that buying training shows that players don't want to spend a long time slowly grinding an unfun activity.

That anon is repeating the same argument, using unrealistic 'what if it's done way better than ever before this time'. As if a hypothetical unrealistic outlier would make it a good design in general. What if there's as many uses of every ability, so every fight has a locked chest and there are locked doors all over the place that you're supposed to go in? What if lockpicking isn't repetitive but actually super fun, just as fun or even more fun than combat somehow? What if going to train in lockpicking can be done in any town with generic NPCs but they're actually amazingly detailed, and interesting, and they leads you to a unique super awesome questline and story that is so interesting for each and every single NPC? What if every single ability in the game is like this, yet there are tons of different abilities?

What if bullshit. There's no game that does that. What if their ideal game falls into development hell with their ridiculous feature creep and never actually releases? What if instead of being unrealistically better than so many other games it's actually mostly average and none of what they imagine happens so it's still boring?

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