Talk about the Legacy of Kain games. Which one is your favorite? Do you have high hopes for the future of LoK?
>>9930094> Do you have high hopes for the future of LoK?lol lmao even
>>9930094For me it's Blood Omen 1.Also... what future?
>>9930187>Blood Omen 1My man, it's a great game.Crystal Dynamics is apparently intending to revive the Legacy of Kain series. They had a fan poll a couple months ago asking what fans would like to see from the series, be it a reboot, sequel, etc...The company also had a secret playtest in May for an unknown game which may or may not be a LoK title.
>>9930094Blood Omen is my favorite, the first I played on PS1 in like 98. 2nd Favorite is Defiance.Played all the others but I never want to replay them, Soul Reaver, Soul Reaver 2 and Blood Omen 2 are all shit games.
>>9930198Why didn't you like Soul Reaver?
>>9930194I am not getting my hopes up for a potential new LoK being any good. It requires a certain amount of passion that modern industry no longer has.But if there is one game in need of a modern remaster, it's Soul Reaver.
>>9930226They seem to be serious about reviving it. I really want it to be good but honestly I don't have a lot of faith in modern vidya companies. More than anything I want a conclusion to the story.
>>9930094Citizen Kain is my personal favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wejWbyGnNsg&ab_channel=GrewkyThis is the greatest cutscene in all of vidya.
>>9930512what le fug
Soul Reaver 1 is cool but way too short. The box puzzles are easy and tedious.Soul Reaver 2 is cool but it's insanely barebones for a PS2 game. They added absolutely nothing to it that wasn't in SR1, like it's a straight port or something.I'm still trying to find the energy to play through BO1. I don't know what helped me play through the SR games to completion but for some reason the first game's jank is filtering my interest in actually playing it, despite how well-written the story is.
>>9930094Soul Reaver, Blood Omen 1 being a close 2nd. Not sure about the future of the series. If the last attempt at a reboot is anything to go by... Sometimes, dead is better.
>>9930094Soul Reaver was the only one I liked. The other ones were pretty shit and I did not enjoy playing them.
>>9930094>Which one is your favorite?Soul Reaver II probably, the atmosphere and story are kino.>Do you have high hopes for the future of LoK?Not particularly. It's been too long and Raziel and Kain just won't be the same being voiced by different people. Simon Templeman could probably still voice Kain but Michael Bell's just too old if not retired by now to voice Raziel.
>>9930634Playing the PC version's ideal if you aren't already since the PS1 version is plagued with frequent loading times.
>>9931012>best atmosphere and storytellingShouls be Soul Reaver 2
Cool game, but the time travel plot ruined it.
Are these games worth playing for the gameplay only if you don't five a shit about story?
>>9934242Not really, the story is the highlight. Soul Reaver 2 for example has very shallow gameplay.
>>9931012>best combat>DefianceIt was absolute kino throwing soldiers off that big bridge and hearing their screams echo as they fell down. One other really cool thing was if you use telekinesis to throw enemies into fires they will run around aflame and if they bump into other NPCs they will set them on fire too.
>>9931012>Soul Reaver 2>best puzzlesI couldn't even think of one. This game is trash, the proto interactive movie.
>>9934458I remember that sunray puzzle that was on multiple floors. I don't really remember anything else about Soul Reaver 2 except the reveal about Raziel. Also the huge monster enemies.
>>9935642gods, that puzzle really rustled my jimmies as an impatient 20 year old
>>9935671I needed a guide for it too lol
Hot take: Blood Omen 2 isn't that bad of a game.
>>9930094>Which one is your favorite?Mechanically? Defiance obviously.Narratively? Either BO1 or SR1.
>>9937551The narration in Blood Omen 1 is really good. It kinda blew me away by how good it is.
>>9930094>hopes for the future
People tend to shit a lot on 2 but while it doesn't have the best gameplay in the series it definitely was the best for the 2 other strengths the series is known for atmosphere and soundtrackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIPw-eP87Gkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bPxkggJlj0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_K0tfWL-Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZrU7fFRDrQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SndDD7HXv8Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHQAtVqiymAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxqfX4XK5Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a68nYtjiwU>>9930512>not thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMIHjCmFeNk
do I need to play blood omen: legacy of kain before soul reaver?
>>9939006It would help.
>>9930927Raziel doesn't have a voice anymore lol
>>9938995Maybe I need to give Soul Reaver 2 a retry but it just felt like a drag. I did not like the backtracking. It wasn't a bad game, just the least good out of the series.
>future of the seriesNOT RETRO
>>9938959I don't mean in terms of actual narration, I mean in terms of the story being told.
>>9938995Also visuals. I know that's usually not that big of a deal but it's insane that SR1 and 2 were only a year apart because in terms of graphics it's like almost a decade passed between them, especially since SR2 was practically a launch title for the PS2. Moebius STILL has some of the best facial animations of all of videogames.
>>9939252The facial animations in Defiance were really cool too.
The worst thing about these games is that THERE'S NO FUCKING SUBTITLES. Except BO1 and Defiance.Like, why?!
>>9930094>Which one is your favorite?Nosgoth, hopefully they'll re-launch it as a team based shooter some day.
>>9930094Just dropping by to say I unironically liked Blood Omen 2.
>>9939184Blood Omen 2 and Nosgoth exist
>>9939406I did too. It has great atmosphere and overall design. I especially like the design of Kain, BO2 is one of the few games where you can play as the bad guy and revel in it. If you approach it as a more action-focused LoK spinoff which is unrelated to the other games it's pretty fun.
>>9939514The game is very stylized which I think is very cool.
>>9939514Agreed. I love the steampunk aesthetic. It's also kinda neat how it's entire plot is the because of Kain & Raziel's time travel shenanigans.I always wondered how changing time would have effected the wasteland of SR1.With recovered Hylden technology would the humans now be in a better position to defend from vampires? Did Kain's empire stretch as far? Did Kain kill the resurrected Vorador?
>>9939596Last webm. Kain's abilities are also really cool.
At one point in my life, I had damn near every line of dialog from Soul Reaver memorized.Amy Hennig is a great writer.
>>9939989no she fucking isn't. she cant possible be a good writer. and you damn well know why
>>9940149Because the other anon is Neil Cuckmann
>>9939996Lol where did this come from? Amy considers LoK to be her crowning achievement and I can damn well understand why, the writing is fucking fantastic.
>>9930094>>9930184>Half the voice cast are dead>Writers are working for different companies>Western games devs are all trannies>DLCIt would take a miracle for something competent to come out
>>9941213The wheel of fate is turning...
Soul Reaver 1 is a really elaborate game. Did you guys find the human citadel on your first playthrough?
>>9930293100% it will be shit and everybody knows it.
>>9935991BO2 is great, the atmospehere, story, ost, everything except Vorador being present. They were told not to do it but marketing insisted becaues gamers liked Vorador.
>>9941204bullshit. shutup man
>>9939989>responsible for beloved game or even series in the 80s & 90s>spent the next two decades working on something way less interesting and clearly inferior>eventually leave your shackles and try to have a new game company>projects fall through>eventually get latched back onto some giant conglomerate again and now you're going to churn out some shitit keeps happening
>>9942224played the ps2 version yesterday, great janky atmosphere and big titty vampire waifu Uma but the analog stick controlling Kain's movement is too sensitive brehs, its annoying.
>>9939514>>9939648Honestly I have no idea why it gets so much hate, Vorador aside, the game has amazing atmosphere created by its story and ost, the gameplay is decent, the locations are intresting, the cutscene are well carried out (although SR1&2 were better). I think ppl just can't stand alternate universes.
>>9941972I have to admit this is what BO1 and SR1 have over the others, a nonlinear world that makes the game world feel more fleshed out.
>>9942224>VoradorHeh. Pic related.BO2's atmosphere and design is on point but story wise it is the weakest in the series.
>>9942247>but story wise it is the weakest in the series.Only because the others were so amazing.
>>9942236I think the hate comes from the fact that BO2 is less story-driven than the other LoK games, a series which is primarily known for amazing storytelling and plot. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as BO2 is instead held up by amazing atmosphere, style and design.
>>9942235you're gross man
>>9930094So I have a Dreamcast with Soul Reaver on it. I was going to play it but then I realized, I don't even know where the fuck it fits in this whole franchise.Where do I start with this shit?
>>9942272Can't you look it up?
>>9942272It's very convoluted. Just play 'em in release order.
>>9942274"Why are you making conversation on a video game board?" Fuck off.>>9942278Fair enough, thanks anon.
>>9930094>Do you have high hopes for the future of LoK?Nope. I want to be hopeful and I'd be lying if I wasn't really happy to see crystal dynamics put out that questionnaire about the series last year but all the replies I saw to it saying "make it like dark souls" or "make it like berserk" really bummed me out.I was thinking a fan could probably make a really good audio book now that voice AI is a thing, and that'd be cool. >Which one is your favorite?Soul reaver 2 from a story perspective. Gameplay wise probably Blood Omen 1, LoK isn't really a series you play for gameplay however and even Blood Omen 1 can be described as a 6/10 in terms of its gameplay.
>>9934242absolutely not.5/10 mediocre through and through, they're remembered for their characters, storytelling and atmosphere, nothing more.
>>9942282>fuck offI wasn't even being mean. Like I just dont understand why you asked that question. I'm not the kind of guy to discourage conversation but your question is fucking weird. Its like someone asking >i just found this copy of star wars episode 5, I was going to watch it but then I realized, I don't even know where the fuck it fits in this whole franchise.>where do i startYou have to understand how weird your question is. There's no reason to be a jerk over it
What kind of kid got into LoK? I never heard about it at all growing up. other main franchises had like a whole scene of kids who were into them. but apparently LoK was really popular and it just never showed up in my area
>>9942313metalheads and goth kids of course.castlevania, vampire the masquerade and legacy of kain are all primary /goth/ core and what do they all have in common ?
>>9942317So what kind of games should I like? I'm like a faggot type guy, you know?
>>9942321I dunno, just go play some games and see what appeals to you nerd
>>9942327Haha man maybe I can come over your house and you can show me some?
>>9942342only if you let me pound that bussy after bro
>>9942347That's gay you fucking fag
>>9942321Unironically Blood Omen 2 because Kain's design in that game is nu-goth to the max lol.
>>9942442what is nu-goth vs old goth?
The only thing I remember from Soul Reaver 1 was the mysterious and beautiful intro with Kain mutilating Raziel's wings. I'm reading some of the plot and themes and I'm fascinated by how it seems like a fantasy story where philosophical concepts are taking almost literally in-universe. Do you guys think this kind of approach has been applied to other notable fantasy stories?
>>9942850I can't think of any. It's pretty cool how in LoK fate is a literal thing and every creature is bound to a predetermined path. Kain's struggle against it is epic as fuck because he's literally breaking universal laws.>>9942457It's much more faggier than old goth.
>>9942850>Do you guys think this kind of approach has been applied to other notable fantasy stories?as gay as it sounds, berserk. that has the whole "cannot deny causality" and "time is a circle" concept at the core of its story just like LoK except without time travel. characters trying desperately to defy a predetermined fate is kino as fuck and there's a lack of series that do it well.
Each game from this franchise has its own gameplay, own quirks but ultimately it tries to tell one story.Ultimately I'd want some immersive adventure games in the likes of BO1 and SR1 that would remake all 5 games with all their given material. All while staying truthful to the actual material and gameplay shown in previous games.Railroad Kain into becoming a combat master in Defiance through BO1 and BO2 by incremental increase in gamedesign complexity, while keeping the puzzles more ability oriented.Make Raziel a step in for Kain but with his own powers (glyphs, Reaver spells) in each game he's in to make player learn what does what.So while in BO1 you explore the world of Nosgoth making use of weapons/skills/artifacts/powers of guardians while having barebones combatin SR1 you explore Raziel and his part of the story. All while getting the hand of new updates to the game design take from BO1 (combat, platforming and puzzles).SR2 would pull you into learning a bit more of a story than shown, yes, but it also should railroad the player into learning all the cool tricks Raziel can do with his shit - especially in combat. If you don't, expect to see loading screen a lot.And Defiance should expect players to be very proficient in combat (because that's mostly all that game had) to pull off the "breaking the story to forge a new one" idea - so that stakes are always there and pretty high ones.> and also be a remake gamedesign wiseAll while each game should pull best ideas from each games. Defiance while sucked had best combat feeling, BO2 was a rough gem of ideas, SR's had best railroad of story and BO1 felt like an entire alien world descending on you (hurr durr Silicon Knights).Keep as much of BO1 ideas. Return the BO1 Vorador's Chad design. Difficulty in LoK is non-existent and the only game that had stakes was BO2 in its own charm. Clunky and shitty as it was, it's also has the best 3d "game" feeling - SR1 was just too bent on the railroad story it had.
Cont. >>9943510But that would require developers that are fans of the franchise and actually know their shit. Or hire old onesPsyonix did the right shit for hiring D.Cabuco to work on the vampire designs. His work has been phenomenal.
>>9942457old goth: more sophisticated lookingnu goth: metal
>>9943510Nice proposal. It would be really cool to feel the characters developing throughout each game.Why do you think Defiance sucked? My only real gripe with it was the whack camera and getting new and new reavers was really boring and repetitive.
>>9942258>I think the hate comes from the fact that BO2 is less story-driven than the otherIn comparison with SR1&2 but not BO. BO had just about as much storyline.
Dark Prophecy was the last time LoK could've gotten another worthy game in the series, it had just the right atmospehere. Any LoK game made today will be trash.
>>9944875Dark Prophecy looked so good, like Defiance but better.
>>9943486Interesting. I'm still on the Golden Age arc so maybe I'm yet to see how literal fate is in Berserk's universe (if it is such a case), although of course the phrase used at the very beginning already sets the tone for that kind of theme.
>>9942850>>9943486are there any books like LoK/
>As long as one of us stands, we are legion.
>>9945448Kain confirmed for anonymous.
>>9939095Assuming they choose to continue the story from where Defiance left off, yeah- it's unlikely that Raziel would return in any form so they wouldn't need to worry about recasting him.
>>9945441yes, the story was based loosely on an actual book, i forget the name, it was a victorian novel or play with vampires, i cant find the name of it, since the wiki has changed, but it mentions a lot of other media that influenced the series in terms of story and visuals.>>9946216raziel can return, he has to, i've come up with a rough plot of how it should continue from defiance, if any interest ill type up and post 2nite, if the tread hasnt archived
>>9946375Go nuts Anon.
Just make the sword talk to Kain, Raziel can be like Kain's Navi.
>>9930094>"Only when you have felt the full gravity of choice, should you dare question my judgement!"Man, what a humanizing moment for Kain. Motherfucker was clearly fed up.
ok so i quickly typed up the first part earlier from the top of my head, i thought this up a while ago so just trying to remember how it played out, it will also centre around time manipulation of sorts. Spoiler: it will eventually have raziel returning to a more human/vampire looking form as he was in the opening of SR1. i've thought up how as a fan i would like to see the story progress. FYI: this will be a lord of the rings style 3 part epic story/game, the part i typed up is a rough prologue to the first part of the story.the first will be kains arc with it ending with raziels return, the second is raziels arc and the final will be both Bro's back together.So the story starts from the final battle in defiance, kain sticks moebius with the reaver not knowing raziel is possessing his corpse.KAIN: no razielRAZIEL: yes, this is what the reaver is for, this is what i am fori am not your enemy, i am as before, your right hand, your sword, and now the true enemy will be revealed.kain now with the powered up reaver, is armed for the final battle, and the elder god is now revealed. the fight ensues, the elder god knowing he cant defeat kain, tries to entomb him in the cavern which was once the depths of the eternal abyss, the same fate kain had once cruely assigned raziel to.kain escapes the crumbling tomb and tells the elder god,KAIN: for now you best burrow deep.kain makes for the surface. Overlooking the remains of nosgoth, he feels somewhat melancholic over the events that had transpired,(TEXT LIMIT REACHED 1/2)
CONTINUED 2/2after having the heart of darkness ripped from his chest and being sent to the demon realm, he had now been cut loose from the wheel of fate, his role as a pawn to the wheel and scion of balance had now come to an end, the elder gods minions have been dispatched, and without any pawns left to carry out his will, he was no longer a threat, at least for the time being.KAIN: it seems our roles have been fulfilled, for now, wouldn't you say old friend. (looking down at the blue flaming eyes on the hilt of the reaver)kain ventures out to the pillars of nosgoth where he had once built his throne, to rule over his empire. he notices the pillars were starting to regenerate, it could take a millennia or more for the pillars to be fully restored along with the world around them, and only then will new scions be born into the world.kain finally deceides its time for some much needed respite, he sets out for the family mausoleum. Not much remained of the cemetery, from the outside it was largely unrecognisable, the entrance now no more than a hole in the ground.kain headed inside, it was mostly collapsed due to the ravages of time, the inner sanctum seemed untouched, it looked for the most part as though time had stood still. kain raised his arm, the lanterns on the walls flickered into life. he climbed into his stone sarcophagus,laying down with the reaver in hand, the hilt on his chest and the blade at his feet, he raises his left arm, levitates the lid, and slides it closed.he places his other hand on the hilt and shuts his eyes.KAIN: now for some well deserved rest, dont you think old friendFADE OUT....................will type more later if enough interest.
>>9945440>I'm still on the Golden Age arc so maybe I'm yet to see how literal fate is in Berserk's universe (if it is such a case)it's central plot after the golden age arc is guts trying to defy his fate every day for the rest of his lifewon't spoil it but yeah I'd consider it close to LoK's story in that sense.
>>9946621>Raziel returns as a voice in the reaver>he's just dashing out quirky one-liners all the time.Would be painful.
>>9946621>>9948716yeah i'm not sure about a talking sword either, having the sword as a navi of sorts is a given, the reaver is known to resonate in game indicating certain things, as if it had a will of its own, or maybe it was raziels will all along.so yeah the reaver will resonate to give indications of certain things, and as in my bit of story above kain still talks to the sword as if raziel is there, but it doesnt talk back.it got me thinking of that film phantasm, the mcs brothers brain was put in one of those silver balls that fly around, sometimes he thinks he can hear his brothers voice in his head, but the ball doesnt speak, it does move in his hand, like its being drawn by a magnetic force, to direct them where to go, so the reaver will basically do the same thing, kain will notice that the reaver seems to display a will of its own, or raziels will even, this gives kain the idea that raziel still possesses his own free will while still inside the sword, raziel still exists, if thats the case then kain maybe able to release him.
>>9948823It would be cool if Raziel's soul still existed in the reaver but having him talk back would be too much.
My idea for an ending to the LoK games would be to play out Raziel's first encounter with Kain in SR, but from Kain's point of view.After completing his goals and finally establishing peace (for vampires), Kain does one last thing. From Raziel's point of view, he went from the Abyss to Melchiah and then to the destroyed Pillars, when Kain broke the Reaver on Raziel, and then chased him to the time streaming chamber.But from Kain's point of view, Kain could have dropped off the Reaver in Avernus for his younger self to find (Azimuth did not know the Reaver was there. It's theorized that Mortanius or Morbius was the one to leave the Reaver, but never confirmed). Then Kain waits for Raziel to find him in the time streaming chamber, having not encountered with Raziel at the pillars.The end then plays out with a final boss battle against Raziel, with Kain playing the villain once more, but now Kain has a another plot, to free Raziel from the Reaver, and to move the wheel of fate to his design.
>>9930094>Which one is your favorite? favorite is blood omen 1>Do you have high hopes for the future of LoK?no and i'm fine with it staying where it is
>>9935991i liked it way more than soul reaver 2, as a game. also this guy is basedhttps://youtu.be/ojv7DCx4BgY
>>9950673Stop fucking saying based.