Left: balance, polish, units abilities variety, great multiplayer, fine singleplayer missions. Right: atmosphere, detailed maps with neutral cities, nice visual and physics effects, singleplayer missions variety. Both: nice art style, engaging plot, great music, nice looking graphics. both are greatAlso, retro RTS thread.
Post more obscure and underrated games.War of the Worlds is pretty nice. One of the first with 3d terrain and 3d units in 1998. Jeff Wayne soundtrack. Units are built on a separate map, like in Total War.
Total Annihilation Kingdoms is barely remembered and mentioned, much less so than regular TA. I like it better for more interesting setting.
Play Battle Realms or else... well nothing happens but you really should if haven't yet.
>>9148782I will give it to Tiberian Sun that it has quite. Bit of variety. StarCraft does tend to get repetitive towards the end of each faction’s campaign.
>Erectus!I remember my brother playing this almost religiously back in the day on his incredibly beige setup. Great game, great soundtrack.
>>9149870I've always liked samurai, but apparently according to an anon here they're pretty crummy in the dragon campaign, that dragon warriors are better for that since they have magic resistance and lotus is the main enemy in that campaign and samurai are weaksauce regarding magic, but samurai should be good against wolf right?
>>9149946Actually, even Red Alert 1 had a good deal of mission variety. StarCraft was a Dune 2-ish step back in this regard, even though core gameplay offered much more that any C&C prior.Speaking of core gameplay, direct production buildings control and reliance on hotkeys makes SC feel more like Dune 2 descendant than any Westwood made offering.
been replaying Spellforce, some maps are a bit tedious but it's still a blast
>>9148782I've only just realized that Starcraft didn't rip off WH40K. It ripped off Aliens vs Predator.
>>9150517I usually play Serpent but I never felt like Samurai were bad, they do have that magic weakness but I guess every unit has a weak point?If you start minmaxxing things it often becomes less fun and there will always be that one unit that you can spam with low resource usage, such as Dragon Warriors or Musketeers.For the campaign it doesn't really matter I think, you can go with mostly samurai and maybe some ranged units + geisha's for healing and do most missions just fine.I think if you really want to focus on Samurai you can adapt your playstyle to that, by using their skills, you can block some magic and explosive damage by using Dragon Skin for example or put Samurai on horses so they can tank more and are more mobile.You can also choose the campain path so that you avoid most Lotus encounters completely.But it really is not needed to be honest.I think, its less Samurai being bad but Lotus being unbalanced, Warlocks and Master Warlocks lack a clear weakness for example.Also just saying Serpent(best clan) has Ronin (but they are also weak to magic).
Do you consider company of heroes retro? What are the best retro RTS based in ww1/2?
>>9148828>Jeff Wayne soundtrackNo kidding? I'll have to look that up.
War 3 refunded got recently cracked, but making custom campaign works is still a pain in the dick
>>9151014StarCraft rips off just about every popular sci-fi idea created during the 20th century, but at least they emphasized some of the better ones.
Play Populous: The Beginning if you want to experience true SOVL
This thread doesn't work because of those five anons who want to talk about rts games here each one has one game that he prefers and he is not interested in trying and discussing others.No wonder the genre is dead.
>>9152269The first CoH is so fucking old that it becomes retro in a year or two. But gameplay wise it's a modern RTS because the genre has stopped evolving since.Speaking of actual retro, Sudden Strike 2 is great but it doesn't have base building.
>>9148782Never understood who the Terran on this cover was. Is it a vulture pilot?Also, I had the protoss boxart as a kid which is the superior choice
Do you people like veterancy systems? i personally think that they provide way too much advantage to players that are already winning, makes it harder to come back for the losing player, and that it forces defensive play.
>>9153767Looks like a SCV.
>>9154721Is it really too much advantage? To me, veterancy system provodes a nice little rpg element, while individual veteran units are still usually less powerful than 2-3 regular units so they're counterable.
been dabbling in C&C Zero Hour modding for the last couple of yearslearning lowpoly modelling for the most part, the engine is real shit & not mod-flexible at all
>>9153767it's your dad
>>9152256Dragon Skin is useless against Warlocks as their melee can sap stamina. Dragon just suck in general, their ultimate weapon Dragon Strike is not only costly for one time use (Neding 4 Samurai and 4 Yang points) but also weak against buildings and most tier 2 units can survive it. Serpent for equivalent cost can get Necromancer who can resurrect dead bodies as zombies for your army. Hope Zen Edition can fix their suckiness.
>>9148828>>9152337Its pretty good. Main problem is finding a physical copy; was released in Germany and Britain and thats it.
Warzone 2000please fix the fucking disgusting piece of shit pathfunding
>>9150935I love StarCraft but nothing will ever top the first time I played the commando mission in C&C. That guy is awesome.
Obligatory since there would be no Blizzard of StarCraft without it.
>>9158873>While not the first real-time strategy (RTS) game (it was preceded by Herzog Zwei), Dune II established a format that would be followed for years to come, and is the first to use the mouse to move units, giving much fluid interaction . As such, Dune II is the founder of the RTS genre in its modern form. Striking a balance between complexity and innovation, it was a huge success and laid the foundation for the coming Command and Conquer (which was nicknamed "Dune III" by some fans and detractors), the Warcraft series, and many other RTS games.
War wind.Also the terran face to the left looks fucking hideous.
>>9151014Bro hydralisks are just xenomorph lites and there are even facehuggers. Scourges iirc.
>>9153709You are projecting. Im interested in trying some games here, specifically dune. Might as well not have any threads at all because people inevitably like different stuff.
>>9159127If you like Dune (for PC and Sega CD) then also play the first one which is basically a Fremen management simulation. but still enjoyable
>>9159110This is supposed to be a facehugger? Sure you're not thinking of something else?
>>9154721Veterancy systems are completely fine. If an unit manages to cause double or triple the amount of its own cost in, it already gave the winning player an advantage and it gives a target of opportunity to the opponent who is slightly behind by allowing them to take out key targets with specialized weapons that are worth more.The biggest issue is you think RTS games need comeback mechanics like a fighting game. They don't, there's absolutely nothing wrong with snowball mechanics. The games that don't reward a player for being better than the opponent tend to last way too long in a multiplayer session (not top level, just average gameplay), it's better for a good player to be capable of closing out a game quickly than for them to be stuck after having an overwhelming advantage on an opponent because of garbage mechanics.
>>9160069Veterancy is what taught me to better micro units to preserve them.
>>9160462That's also another aspect I hadn't touched on about. It teaches good habits like unit preservation and management.Throwing units out and having them kill and get killed on a 1 to 1 ratio isn't favourable by any stretch even with equal resources and production on both sides, it's just both of them losing at the same time. The only time it is acceptable is when there's a significant advantage in resources or production for one side over the other, and even then it's incredibly wasteful to do this when there's better ways to handle situations like that.
>>9148782how do i fix this shit?Error:Unable to create directory C:\Starcraft\maps.Installation aborted.Error 0: The operation completed successfully.at: DiskUndo.cpp line 456
>>9160547Battle.net free version, 8 gigs (because it packs remaster) but works on modern versions of Windows
People who started with RA2 love it but I hate how Westwood moved everything around between the factions.Say Tiberian Dawn to Tiberian Sun transition: many returning units were remade but the factions overall stayed the same and familiar: Wolverine = Hummvee, Titan = Medium tank, Disc thrower = Grenadier etc etc.In RA2 they removed flametrowing units and buildings altogether, removed jeep, moved SAM tower to allies, moved flak cannon to soviets, moved jets to allies, moved anti air infantry to soviets, made tesla tank short range as opposed to long range glass cannon from RA1 (this role was relegated to allied prism tank), removed medics and mechanics. It's like they tried too hard to balance RA2 factions evenly instead of replicating assymetric balance of RA1.
>>9160553Battle.net version looks like shit. It's either smear filtered or unevenly pixelated, depending on the settings.
>>9160547>>9160583I may upload my ver 1.16.1 installation, optimized to run on Windows 11 with pixel perfect integer scaling, if you know any free file share service for a 1.3gb file
>>9160708>with pixel perfect integer scalingWhat mod is that?
>play original C&C>play original Warcraft>start playing the deluge of RTS games that start coming out>they're all the fucking same bullshit with exactly the same strategy, gameplay, nothing to give it any variety, basically the same unit types (more or less), etc, etc>by the time starcraft comes along it's a fucking dead genre to meRTS went hard and died early and the only reason people care about later games is because they didn't play the early games, or they didn't care they were playing the exact same game many times overEven fucking FPS, fighting, and other genres at least have goddamn variety and different ways of keeping the genre fresh. RTS was done just after it got started.
>>9160741Sounds like you just don't like the genre
>>9160750The genre was fine when it was new and unique, but doing the exact thing over and over with every game killed it.Sounds like you just can't read.
>>9160768Name 10 original RTS before starcraft then.
>>9160731Just a ddraw wrapper.
>>9160771>he still can't readFor fuck's sake, don't just skim what I said and take "lol he doesn't like RTS" from it. READ IT.
>>9160741If you, after playing C&C and WC2, didn't wait eagerly for Starcraft and Tiberian Sun release and didn't play them religiously after, then you had a shitty childhood.
>>9160553>>9160583i hate battle.net and don't want to log ini installed before with pretty much nothing changed and i have no idea why it's not working now. it's probably got to do with write permissions but i've done everything i can think of in that regard>>9160708mega's free>with pixel perfect integer scalingis that a patch? my GPU supports integer scaling and i'd be playing on a CRT some of the time anywaythanks btw
>>9160858Here you go, bro:https://mega.nz/file/rwFUAR6b#v77KBzHx8wgEES75k4JpAHpFhszvKqSKZ3eXj7CBng0It uses cnc-ddraw wrapper and you may fine tune it via ddraw.ini. Right now it's optimized for a standard 1080p monitor with 2x upscale from 640x480.Since you'll be using CRT monitor, I suggest replacing this wrapper with DDrawCompat:https://github.com/narzoul/DDrawCompat/releasesIt doesn't have any settings, but simply runs the game at original resolution while solving all compatibility and framepacing issues.
>>9151014It bothers me that they never made a prominent rendition of a zergling. You can see them a bit in one of the cinematics, but they look like hydralisks with extra legs??? Not at all what they look like now.
>>9160928Not him, but does the vanilla game really have issues with fluidity? I played it on a CRT as well and don't recall having any issues.
>>9160951>It bothers me that they never made a prominent rendition of a zergling.https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/d/dc/Zergling_SC1_Art1.jpg
>>9160954Many old directdraw games have all sorts of issues on new 64-bit Windows systems. I have jerky mouse cursor movement, for example. You may try the game without any wrapper at all, maybe it works fine for you. Starcraft works much better than any C&C on newer systems, at least.
>>9160951For whatever reason, the cinematics team used a different, sillier version that looked a lot like a quadrupedal hydralisk. And they did it for Brood War too.
>>9160969Not sure about Brood War, but Starcraft cinematics were made way before the game had finalized story and assets. Joey Ray intro is from early 1997.
So, which Dune 2 was the best? I vote for OG DOS one, even though I prefer Sega Genesis version music.
>>9161532Left: soulRight: soulless
Dune 2000 redesigns were shite
>>9160993I stand corrected, this video is present on Diablo CD dated December, 1996. So yeah, Starcraft intro cinematic is much older than the actual game.
>>9150987I played through it recently and found using cheat engine to speed up the game 50% helps a whole lot. Going to as much as 3x speed when running from point A to point B also really helps
>>9162091since I have geriatric RTS reflexes, the slow pace suits me just fine . For those times when you have to move all across the map I just get myself tea or something. Going through phoenix right now
>>9151014It rips rips off literally everything, and openly admits it. Good artists borrow, great artists steal.
Should I try Seven Kingdoms 2 or Age of Empires 2 first?
>>9151014Blizzard? Original writing?
I'm gonna try this shit soon. Wish me luck.
>>9162606They thanked 420. Hahah
>Retro RTS thread>only Starcraft is ever discussed
So what's the best way to enjoy it in the current yearFansites are a confusing mess of user-made maps and multiplayer obsession
>>9160580The worst thing is that RA3 is even worse. It's a pile of smoking shit if compared to RA1.
>>9159706he probably means guardians but they're different enough functionally
>>9157514>Zen >fixing anythingLmao its some fag buying the rights for the IP for cheap and making a quick buck.That shit doesnt even have working online and its out for 2years now, its no better than the GoG version.
>>9160580I'm glad these changes were made. Soviets look more like a brute force now with better tahks and kirovs, with american using classic jets and and anti-air stuff, and are more maneuverable.What's truly impressive in RA2 that both factions have a transparent and logical tech tree: Sovs use flak (trooper, trak, sea scorp), V3 (rocket vehicle, Jugg), Tesla (trooper, tank, base defence), high armor (tanks, Kirov), Allies use rockets (IFV, SAM, Aegis), jets (Harrier, aircraft carrier). Even the superweapons have logic behind them, ie. harvesters are using chrono technology.It's the most polished C&C game, only some of the nation specific stuff were untested. On the soviet side, Iraq desolators are the only good additions, while Allies are only weak with Germany.
>>9165872No, these changes suck big time. They threw established conventions out of window. It's like giving GDI stealth tech or giving Protoss mass producing Zerglings-alikes.Red Alert 1 was like this:Soviets: expensive, slow, powerful, aircraft superiority, rocket artillery, rocket aa defenses, offensive technologies like tesla and flamethrowers, defensive like iron curtain and generally stronger armor. Basically scary brutal empire Indiscriminately stomping everyone and everything on the way to world domination. Feels good to play as if you're into this kind of fantasy.Allies: cheap, mass producing, conventional and reliable like artillery and flak cannon, medics and mechanics making do with field repairs and healing, making the most out of available resources, inteligence, diversion, trap-setting tactics. Guerilla warfare specialists, treating every tesla coil defence like a problem to solve and outsmart seemingly more powerful enemy against all odds. Basically David and Goliath story. War of the Worlds but without the germs. Feels even better to play as because everyone loves underdog resistance fighter stories.Red Alert 2 is just like real life with high tech gigachad western powers and doofus outdated tech russian orks who rely on brainwashing to gain supporters. Like wtf commie, did you really try to conquer 'murrica with that? Go home Ivan, you're drunk.
>>9165730>some fag buying the rights Ed Del Castillo sold his own name?
>>9159706>one in the pink, teeth in the stink
>>9166192This is for the campaign, but on multiplayer allies dominate on RA1. The game is all about massing tanks, and the allies did it easier.
>>9166345>Ed Del Castillo sold his own name?Ah fuck, okay I must've thought of something else.I was about to type out a rant about how they first announced a Battle Realms 2, just to then cancel it after all the hype and re-release a broken BR1 version on steam in early access for a quick buck.However, looking at the steam page and the updates I guess they are doing something to improve it and they are apparently just 4 people...So uhm, does online work now at least?Still salty they cancelled 2 though.
>>9164543Probably to play with the Fallen Levels plugin in Myth2.Myth2 latest patch: http://projectmagma.net/downloads/myth2_updates/The Fallen Levels: https://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/the-fallen-levels-v2
>>9148782Just started playing this the other day and it's a surprisingly solid game
>>9166823>they first announced a Battle Realms 2Did they? I do remember the failed kickstarter of a card game BR spinoff.