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>Awful controls
>Camera tries to fuck all the way and most of the time you can't even control it
> Draw distance makes you miss collectables that might be near you

And yet, the game was a big hit and people had lots of fun playing it.

Also, since we're on the subject: Is Tooie as bad as people say?
>>
>The mole calling Kazooie names all the time

This game would be cancelled.
>>
>>9142742
mascot platformers had very simple gameplay and controls which worked well enough on the n64 controller with the weakest 3d hardware on a console ever
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>>9142742
>the game was a big hit and people had lots of fun playing it
would be good to know the average age of players at the time. It was probably like 8 to 18 or something. I remember i was blown away by mario64, it looked magical compared to anything else. Doom was out by then but Mario just looked so colorful and there was a fair bit of hype
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>>9142807
I still remember the first time I've seen the huge Mario head in 3d. My brain just couldn't process that.
>>
i played it this year and still had a lot of fun
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>>9142783
What're you talking about? In 1996, it was the most powerful consumer-grade 3D processor. The games themselves struggled with storage since it didn't use CDs, but the console itself wasn't the weakest 3D hardware on a console. I'd wager that's the Jaguar. or even the FX chip.
>>
>>9142742
Literally never had any of these issues when i played it as a kid or when i played it last year. Game holds up and is a solid nomination for best 3d platformer. Only possible issue i ever had was the notes needing to be all found in one go per world, but mario 64 did similar with its 100 coin stars.

Tooie is like BK Master Quest. Probably not good in comparison to the first for newcomers, but a good sequel for fans of the original.
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>>9142742
Nice of you to show you're weren't even born when it came out, Banjo's camera and controls were fantastic for the time and a showcase for the N64, the 360 re-release added better camera control and a greater draw distance and that's all it needed because everything else in the game aged like fine wine.
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>>9142807
I am still blown away by various games from 1990 to 2000, despite their antic status.

Why?
Because despite graphics having gotten better, there are things games do not try to do. So occasionally you boot up a PS1 game and see it trying to do something that isn't done outside of things like flight sims 2 decades later.
Or you have DRPGs where you get into a dungeon and the interior is so big you get render errors, despite the game already having beefy big impressive dungeons before this.

As graphics marched on, I feel the trend is of devs being really scared of beefy LOD. And small room designs for polygon counts caught on.
Essentially modern games not impressive because the devs are scared of edge cases where the hardware limitations show. This limit design and intent.
On top of that there has been a move away from adaption of other mediums, which means we also see less janky transplanted mechanics, limiting artistic vision.
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>>9142898
Being able to play the parts of the head was more fun than it should have been for 7 y/o me.
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>>9142742
Quit playing older games and going on to nitpick everything "old" about them. Complaining about the camera, and controls in old games is a sign of a true bitch, unless those things are actually truly awful. Even in modern games people complain about those things, and most of the time its from people who are terrible at adapting to games.

Embrace the old technology and design and quit comparing to games from other eras. If you wan't to compare, compare from the same era.
>>
Popped Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 into my PS1 today. Haven't played it since I was a kid. My brain remembers it being a fast, fluid, good looking game. Yet it's actually muddy and runs at 20 FPS. It really is quite the shock to remember that this used to be not only okay, but praised.
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Why does this board always fall for retarded bait?
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>>9143223
try the GameCube or PS2 version then, duh
that game does in fact hold up
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Filtered?
Good
Back to /v/ you go
>>
>possibly best camera on N64 (clipping in certain areas suck as tho)
>wash has bad camera

It's not the game, it's you. You're one of those fucker who barely USES the camera and then complains about it
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>>9142748
>Bottles: We had to make some..."changes" in order to stay relevant in social media's eyes. So watch that beak of yours!

>Kazooie: Whatever you say, dirt digger.

>Banjo: Kazooie! That's not very PC!

>Kazooie: I'll say. Maybe they should sod -- I mean, "Log off" once in a while.
>>
What I don't understand is why Yooka Laylee was so heavily criticized if it offered an almost 1:1 experience compared with BK
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>>9142742
People were less picky and prone to nitpicking, yes. Honestly I think the biggest flaw with this site is that it's become the norm to assume any flaw or failure of a game means that it has zero value and the entire thing is trash as a result. It's really quite pathetic.
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>>9142742
Nothing in this OP is incorrect
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>>9142742
>Awful controls
probably too stupid to realize this but there was no 'good controls' there was simply controls, and you're appraising them in retrospect
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>>9144013
Actual braindead post
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>>9144013
What the hell are you talking about? Mario 64 controls and camera were miles better than Banjo's and was definitely good not only for the time but for today's standards as well
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Just the ever increasing living standards. People were also more inclined to defend it due to monetary investment and less choice.
You have to imagine there was nothing before it. So you had nothing to compare it to. 2D gaming didn't peak with Atari in the 80s. It's hard to get enthusiastic over those old relics of games.

The controls aren't nearly that bad. But sure it's easy to point out the flaws or how to improve it in hindsight. But that wasn't possible at the time. Age and experience makes us lose patience for the inferior.

Most old games have since gotten mods that improve them. Also collectathons are simply just a very childish genre. Think about what the objective of such a game entails. It oozes boredom after the novelty has worn off.
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>>9144047
lol lmao even
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>>9144089
Dumbass
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>>9144054
I think the simpler point here is that despite its flaws, it was still a largely pleasant game with lots to explore and do for one full playthrough. For kids who got 3 or 4 games a year it was a pretty great purchase to get these most out of your dollar
Mentality like this was important in retro days and helped paint game reviews as well as player consensus
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>>9144054
>Also collectathons are simply just a very childish genre. Think about what the objective of such a game entails. It oozes boredom after the novelty has worn off.

Hard disagree here. If we're talking about things to do after the novelty was worn off, collectathons were way better than JRPGs in that sense, because at least the gameplay was fun enough for you to play a couple more times. I wish the genre didn't have the miserable death it had, with one new game every 5 years. For people who love exploring and being rewarded for it, is a great genre.
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>>9142783
What shit retard bait is this?
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>>9142742
>Is Tooie as bad as people say?
It's really a very mixed bag

Pros
>huge levels that are varied and of excellent design
>not so much about collecting, more about exploring and solving puzzles
>interconnected world
>lots of new moves

Cons
>the big levels kill the framerate
>overreliance on minigames, especially the FPS ones are tiresome
>interconnected world
>lots of new moves
>>
>>9144130
You are free to find the equivalent of a checklist to be emotionally stimulating. But that just speaks of the infantile puerile manchild nature of latestagecapitalism. This is merely me putting it into perspective. That a grown man might not have the patience for things a child has.
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>>9142958
>In 1996, it was the most powerful consumer-grade 3D processor
That was 3dfx Voodoo Graphics. N64 3D hardware is much weaker.
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>>9142742
>Le ebic goode olde days before I was born
>>>/v/ is that way, zoom zoom
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>>9144054
>Also collectathons are simply just a very childish genre. Think about what the objective of such a game entails. It oozes boredom after the novelty has worn off.
Why is this retarded take so common these days? Pathetic
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>>9144308
>Le ebic goode olde days
That's the entire point of this board
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>>9142783
good thing you're not on /v saying that, otherwise the thread would've been nuked by now.
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>>9143536
Kazzoie would absolutely call Bottles a numb digger.
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>>9144054
What game is that?
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>>9144054
Alright YOU, that's enough shilling.

>>9144614
Frogun.
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>>9144197
>N64 3D hardware is much weaker

3dfx Voodoo Graphics 4 MB (1996):
-- GPU Clock
50 MHz
-- Fill rate
50.00 MPixel/s
-- Transistors
1 million

N64 Reality Coprocessor
GPU Clock
62 MHz
-- Fill rate
62.50 MPixel/s (Mode 1)
--Transistors
2.6 million
>>
>>9144392
I'd imagine with the amount if unlocks games have these days that drip feed the player, Collect-a-thons seem trite since the several McGuffins were only a means of progression and not much else. BK did a decent enough job with it, but the likes of Tooie and DK64 really pushed the envelope with the drawn-out tedium of it all.
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>>9144161
Breadtube pls fucking GO.
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>>9144690
>mindless Tooie hater
Yawn
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>>9142742
>Is Tooie as bad as people say?
Man it's fucking boring. And I hate to say that because in a lot of ways it does feel like they put everything into trying to make it an upgraded sequel, it has things going for it, but the levels are too big and are designed in a confusing way that makes areas blend together. The game would have been a lot better with a minimap and less backtracking.
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>>9144718
>mindless
I dare ya' to say that I like Pineapple on Pizza. Paint more targets on my back why don't ya'.
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>>9142742
>People were happier back then, weren't they?
more like the people who enjoyed these games were kids who didn't know any better at the time.
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>>9142742
then why arent the majority still playing them? youre just a nostalgiafag so am i but i am selfaware that i am one
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>>9145462
because the rate of retardadion is higher today?I mean, show this game for a 13 year old kid nowadays, and consider that it grew up in a place where they're rewarded every single second by tiktok and fortnite. I don't think they'll be able to appreciate it.
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>>9145634
>blaming children for the society they were born into
>>
>>9142742
Tooie is better than Kasooie
>>
>>9143223
Nobody played the PS1 version. The GameCube or PS2 version is great
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>>9145893
I unironically don't know why anyone would say this
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>>9145913
Simple: Tooie is a better game
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>>9145634
Well obviously when you put it like that.
No one born in the 70's to today's going to be WOWED by Citizen Kane. Hell -- most vidya pre-4th gen excluding their arcade versions are absurdly boring and this is coming from a 90's kid that played a bit of SMW and ALttP at the time.
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>>9143997
Yooka Laylee falls between Tooie and DK64 in the too much shit spectrum. BK has just the right amount.
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>>9145963
I thought DK64 problem was more related to pure gameplay and performance issues, not the "too much shit".
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>>9145942
>No one born in the 70's to today's going to be WOWED by Citizen Kane.
Ever consider actually watching it
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>>9142742
>People were happier back then, weren't they?
Yes.
>This game has awful controls and camera.
No. I had no problems with the controls and camera playing it as a kid.
>draw distance.
Zoom off, faggot.
>>
>>9144669
Hate to break it to you but Voodoo 3s were usually paired with a Pentium 166 on socket 7, or better, and that combo would absolutely trounce any video game system.
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>>9146063
>as a kid.
there it is
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>>9145942
LOL, this is why all media has been in a death spiral. Saying a story, a film, a painting, or a game is outmoded because of the march of technology is ignorant. Media is outmoded because of profitability of the media not because of merit of the media.
>>
>>9146063
>>draw distance.
>Zoom off, faggot.
Please tell me how you found the second honeycomb on TTC. You literally have to fly at random into the ocean for a while before it suddenly pops up. Please tell me how this isn't an obvious problem in a game focused on finding things.
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>>9146253
>The ONE and ONLY time in the game this ever REMOTELY matters
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>>9146387
Draw distance is on every collectible.
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>>9146398
Why are you deliberately pretending to misunderstand me? would it perhaps have something to do with being too weak-kneed to confront the actual content of the argument and being unable to deny it, relying on changing the subject instead? Hmmm?

This is the one and ONLY time in the game draw distance has any noticable negative impact on gameplay, and it's fucking goddamn intentionally placed outside draw distance because extra honeycombs are deliberately hard to find. It is absolutely not even a small issue for 99% of the game and you're nitpicking like hell. This isn't a problem, you're so hell-bent on finding a problem we with this game you are willing to invent them
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>>9143091
>stop thinking about things
>dont judge things compared to modern era
Fuck off man, retards like you think people only play old games for nostalgia.
>>
>>9146412
listen man he's right, you're embarrassing youself
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>>9146412
They're trying to troll you. Ignore them.
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>>9142742

Ah, Banjothread full of coping nostalgia gogglers
Every time like a first time
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>>9142742
the joke in the 90s was literally "things are good and everyone is satisfied"

It's not just "you getting older". People were just happier.
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>>9146578
It's true.
It wasn't that long ago where people were acting like 90s nostalgia is delusional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pa6SGYWADU

It's been extremely vindicating, seeing how everything has gotten even worse than the 00s, to a degree where no one is able to ignore it anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UpKuAeLuh4

I now completely understand why people hated hippies, and Jimmy Carter. But more than that, I understand why they happened to begin with. And now we're due for the pendulum swinging HARD the other way, just as it did back then.

Oh boy. I can't wait. November 8th lads.
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>>9142742
Tooie was better, and yes things were just simpler back then.
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>>9146578
Isn't that kinda what happens... when you fight a proxy war for 40 years... but your enemy collapses due lack of structural long term competence?
90s vs the 2000s is just a matter how far along the e excess of that victory built up, to the point of cynicism.
>>
>people had lots of fun playing it
No, they were brainwashed into thinking they were having "fun" by viral marketing and paid off reviews and being trained to love shitty games.
Mid-90s was the beginning of the death of gaming and it's basically dead now.
>>
>>9146578
>>9146616
Culturally in America between 1996 and 2001 there was a lot of optimism. Things changed after that for some reason
>>
>>9146752
The actual fallout from Clinton's policies were coming to a head. People think he handled our economy responsibly because it was still growing. No. NAFTA was a disaster. And there was also 9/11, and all the decisions that came as a result of that.
Put those things together, and you have the giant grey blob called "The 00s"
>>
There sure are a lot of people upset by this game. Wow.
>>
>>9146778
Translated: "You are not allowed to dislike a game I like"
>>
>>9146734
So explain to me why am I playing this for the first time in 2022 and I'm having more fun than I've had in any modern AAA game.

>>9146537
It's not Nostalgia googles. It seems, at least to me, that devs had way more roadblocks and prehistoric technology at that time and still somehow made things better than nowadays. Yooka Laylee had a fucking orchestra to make their soundtrack and it's somehow worst than a game made in the 90's that had 12Mb to accomodate the whole game + soundtrack.
>>
>>9146763
I feel like only a new worldwide war can bring people again to a state of "enjoyment". People are loud these days. You broke your nail? Go to twitter to complain and get 50k likes. You failed your test? Complain about your racist teacher and get 60k likes.

Only with a war people can really see what's good in life and start to face things in a most humble and sensitive way. I just hope it comes after I'm dead because the Cold War, which wasn't even a real war was frightening enough for my kiddo version.
>>
>>9146794
> Yooka Laylee had a fucking orchestra to make their soundtrack and it's somehow worst than a game made in the 90's that had 12Mb

Well, can't argue with that. I am probably the only person who genuinely enjoyed that game

My theory is that hardware limitations were pushing developers to think about how they could create something as good as possible with those tools.
Some video game composers directly said that they were interested in making 8-bit hardware do stuff beyond its capabilities. That's why demoscene also exist (I think).
When you have unlimited capabilities, your imagination works less.
>>
>>9146796
>I feel like only a new worldwide war can bring people again to a state of "enjoyment"

I feel the same way too. People always feel happier after some great crisis ends.
With current tension in the world and major conflicts between different countries, we're not that far from such event.

But this is not the right board to discuss it, so i'll stop here
>>
>>9146796
Incel weirdo
>>
>>9144632
not shilling, played it for 10 minutes, realized it's still a boring chore simulator, went outside since it's a nice sunny day with a good book and that's how I spent my last 3 days, I pirated it too so can't even accuse me of that either. Just not my genre. But at least it runs at 144fps.
>>
>>9143536
>Banjo: Kazooie! That's not very PC!
>Kazooie: I thought this was a console game.
>>
>>9142742
Tooie was fabulous. I miss the grey jinjo family
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>>9142783
>weakest 3d hardware on a console ever
I find it hard to believe the ps1 could do some of the dynamic lighting shit you see in the zelda games.
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>>9145942
>No one born in the 70's to today's going to be WOWED by Citizen Kane
U crazy? I am almost 30 and finally get how brutal “Rosebud” is. Had an existential crisis, cried the shit and yeah, this film is fucking A. My child will be named Orson Welles
>>
>>9143536
Interesting. That could work. With good writing, a Banjo-Kazooie game nowadays could be funny while keeping the old style.
>>
in another dimension there is a game called Baby Banjo where you play as a small adolescent bear on a quest to recover your backpack from a bird that stole it. you endure many trials and tribulations only to finally recover your backpack, and in the process, gain a new friend.
>>
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>>9148486
Saturn and psx would have done much nicer looking Zelda games of they were in charge. The proof is in the pudding as both systems still have games that hold up today.
>>
>>9148581
I want to live in the dimension where rare just doubled down on making kiddie games instead of going on a self destructive identity crisis
>>
>>9146816
Most of Yooka-Laylee was still Kirkhope, and when it wasn't you still had people like David fucking Wise contributing. It's definitely not as iconic, memorable, or such a completely stellar package as the original Banjo, but I don't think Yooka-Laylee has a bad soundtrack at all.

Except that dumb rap, but that was clearly just made to ape the DK rap
>>
>>9148673
DK and Banjo were kiddy while still being "cool" enough for older kids and even going back to now. Conker's Twelve Tales or whatever looked overly kiddy even compared to DK and Banjo. That fucking music for the grass world still gets stuck in my head just from watching the gameplay footage years ago, and not in a good way.
>>
>>9142748
>>9143536
Stop obsessing over your culture war talking points and take a shower
>>
As a zoomer with no nostalgia bias, Banjo-Kazooie is the best game of 1998
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>>9148803
Actually wait never mind I just remembered Sutte Hakkun released that year too
>>
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>>9146796
>>9146824
Alright calm down lads.
You realize when Trump was in office, we were headed towards the desired direction with no new wars to speak of? It doesn't have to be that way.
>>
>>9149124
Stop obsessing over your culture war talking points and take a shower
>>
>>9144741
>Paint more targets on my back why don't ya'.
Just one is enough. I never miss my shots. You know, I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals.
>>
>>9148670
Most PS1 games are janky as fuck games on pre rendered backgrounds, in no way do they hold up
>>
>>9149152
Well, my culture war talking point is vastly less insane than yours.
You take the goddamn shower, you freak.
>>
>>9149152
>please ignore the culture wars in a way that allows my side to win
Kill yourself.
>>
>>9150664
>>9150670
Unironically obsessed.
>>
>>9149152
>no actual argument
>has no idea what he's talking about
>just gets irrationally angry when he sees these subjects because deep down he knows he never investigated his own beliefs
Yeah, most people are like you. They prefer to be part of the problem, because taking personal inventory and admitting their preconceptions of reality were wrong is too painful to deal with.
>>
The camera is fine. The one thing I dislike about Banjo's controls is that the direction your control stick moves you is relative to the screen instead of your character.
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>>9142742
Why are there so many zoomer posts on here?
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>>9146734
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>>9146752
>Culturally in America between 1996 and 2001 there was a lot of optimism. Things changed after that for some reason
>2001
Ok that makes sense.
>>
>>9145942
Most vidya pre 4th gen was genuinely garbage. Gen 4-6 were the only objectively good videogames.
>>
>>9146752
For some reason? Gee I wonder why? Could it be the open genocide program targeted at the native population, Whites?
>>
Mods please nuke this threa
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>>9152951
You are forgetting 3 exceptions pre-4th-gen, 5 exceptions between 4th-gen and 6th-gen, and 2 exceptions after 6th-gen. You or another anon must list them.
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>>9152671
Hardest projection I've seen today
>>
>>9142783
>weakest 3d hardware on a console ever

Bait? Technically youre correct if you leave out the consoles that did 3D without a 3D chip like PSX but cmon.
>>
>>9142742
I never liked Rare's platformers, even at the time. The controls are atrocious.



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