Why did the Car Combat subgenre die out? Was Twisted Metal really the only series that did it right?
I really have no clue why they just stopped. I guess their target demographic was mostly buying FPS and TPS games for a while?It's kinda a crime that nobody made a good one during the recent battle royale boom.
Nah, Vigilante 8 was really good too (never played the sequel but heard it's good as well). How was the recent Playstation one with the TV screen head lady?
for me it's rogue trip 2012
>>9126754Being able to move and turn in any direction on a dime while shooting is more satisfying for an audience that demands precision. Fps and tps have spoiled everyone. It's the same reason why tank or jet games aren't more popular
>>9126804I'm still pretty surprised that Rocket League's success didn't get anybody to develop a nice online car combat game.
>>9126754V8 > TM
>>9126805RL is just car soccer. All the tortilla tossers and monkeys around the world love soccer which is why RL became a global hit. You can't really translate that into a car combat game, it would still flop because the average person would rather play FTP shooter crap like Fortnite or Apex
>>9126754Because every game in that genre was trash. It's possibly the shittiest genre ever conceived.
>>9126754RUSH2049 BEST CAR COMBATCOMBAT RUSH2049 BEST CAR CAR COMBAT RUSH2049 BESTBEST CAR COMBAT RUSH2049
>>9126849V8 is soulless, a clone that completely misunderstands what's fun about TM.
>>9126754Rock n Roll Racing on the SNES was fun
>>9126754Vehicular combat has to have somewhat poor controls and unreliable aiming accuracy. If you make it too easy to hit others, then it stops being fun. It could never survive in today's casual climate
>>9126862That's cute, considering how popular rocket league is in the U.S. Maybe they should take breaks between plays to appease the trailer park crowd during their meth binges.
>>9126754>Was Twisted Metal really the only series that did it right?no
>>9126754>Why did the Car Combat subgenre die out?Because it's a retarded concept.
>>9126805RL started as a car combat game and then the devs added the ball for fun, which made the game better than what they wanted to make at first.
>>9127271Aaaaaah I knew it. I knew it.
>>9126886rush 2049 is the best car related video game in general
>>9126804jet games aren't popular because the skill application is subtle, shooting missiles is done for you, using aeronautical techniques to get lined up behind targets as efficiently as possible is a lot less direct than aim for this target
It was effectively just a more convenient way to do multiplayer deathmatch, on consoles that didn't have dual analogue yet.
>>9128201It was a better way than being a walking camera
Car Combat games were only ever really popular in The US. People in actually civilized parts of the world like Europe preferred higher class racers like Wipeout.
>>9126934>a cloneisnt made by the same team who made the original 2?
>>9128567No that was Rogue Trip. Vigilante 8 and its Sequel were made by Luxoflux.
>>9126862>RL is just car soccer>You can't really translate that into a car combat gameSo you didn't actually see the game.You can demolish other cars by ramming into them at full speed, and there is a mode with randomized items, like a boot that kicks opponent cars, a powerup that demolishes opponent cars upon touching, a teleport item that switches your position with an opponent car's position, among other items.
>>9126934>>9128567Vigilante 8 was intended to be a cheap spinoff of Interstate '76 in order to fund the sequel's development. Ironically V8 ended up being more successful than the Interstate series, despite Interstate being much more ambitious and deep.
>>9126778Now that I think about it, cruising around on a big map and hunting enemies sounds pretty dope.
>>9126754Mario Kart so completely dominated the concept that everything else fell by the wayside.
Shooter races are where it's at.
>>9126754we have world of tanks and gta
>>9126754wish there's a carmageddon with lots of weapons and no time limit/less focus on the racing while still being an optional way to winalso pedestrian/zombie killing is pointless i don't know why they focused hard on it, even with all the sequelsand magazine ads/promos were always about the manslaughter
hotwheels velocity X was a ton of fun
>>9128975those don't compare
>>9126754Twisted Metal is one of my favourite franchises and even they didn't get it right. The technology just wasn't there yet and the game design was too new/unfounded to be able to make something as compelling as quake or street fighter.If a new car combat game was to be made it would need to really nail the feeling of impact on collisions (unlike the pillowy shit you get from relying too much on a physics engine like Carmageddon:Max Damage or Wreckfest had) but also set up a system that allows for outplays or demonstrations of pure skill or mindgames or all of the above. It would take a lot of hurdles and seemingly redundant decisions to make it all come together but so did Street Fighter 2 when that concept was new.Ironically I think Twisted Metal PS3 came fairly close to a legitimately good multiplayer game but we all know how hard that ball was dropped...
>>9129510That they focused on vehicular mansalughter is why it got any press. It was a marketing gimmick that worked.
>>9129607>but we all know how hard that ball was droppedI don't
>>9129669Online (the main advertised gamemode) was literally broken and the Single player mode (the one previous fans cared a lot about) was condensed from being character-unique to just 1 campaign that spread across ONLY 3 characters. People really hated that.Again, the gameplay turned out to be the best in the series but TM was as much about aesthetics and spectacle as it was about car combat. With almost no marketing and broken online It killed the franchise and the genre.It wasn't even really the team's fault, just sony meddling and unreasonable deadlines. Sad stuff.
I think it comes down to map design. It's fun if there's plenty space to flank and maneavuer while going high speeds, and even more fun if there's any verticality. It's less fun when you're spending your time just trying to find the other bastard while he's Austin Powersing himself into a tiny ass ambush crevice.
>>9128201Maybe, but their single-player design of being nothing but a linear series of deathmatch stages is why no one really talks about things like Unreal Championship for Xbox. Most of the car combat games are just arcadey, third-person deathmatches and no real online multiplayer selling point. Unreal Championship's single-player was just a series of deathmatches and capture-the-flag missions, but it was still a bit more than just a bunch of last-man-standing deathmatches.If they don't want to be anything more than that, they'll stay as repetitive as any shmup.
>>9129695TMPS3 was an amazing experience.
the slavs like itI mean, they even put an RPG twist into it, creating Hard Truck Apocalypsealso there's World of Tanks
>>9126754I don't know ultimately its a good question. I think its probably because they had an arcade-like feel to them and that style in general as a whole pretty much died out in the 2000's. The clone games all took after TM in having a bunch of crazy wacky characters and cars. None of them really tried a build your own vehicle type of thing. I don't know ultimately though. Arena shooters of all types just died out. I think that type of style is just not easily approachable for the casuals is the problem since they do not understand how to get good and map control. There are better dead genres to bring back imo.
>>9128975>gta>car combat- machine guns mounted to cars exclusive to the second game- the stadium mini game from sa- uhhh... car bombs?
Vigilante 8 surpassed it and then there was nothing to innovate on anymore.
>>9126804I agree with this. Most car combat games combine most elements of an arena-based FPS like Quake with elements of a driving game. Not only do you have to memorize the locations of weapons and items so you don't aimlessly run around without weapons and die, but you have to know how to effectively use each weapon and also know the strengths and weaknesses of the vehicle you're driving, like how much damage can it take, how does it drive, what is its Special Attack and what is the most effective way to use it, etc.Most casual players who play these games for the first time are just magnetized to the enemies and unload all of their inventory on them, which results in them getting slaughtered because they don't know where to get more items. Twisted Metal 2 is perhaps the most deadly, bullshit example of this. The AI is programmed in a similar vein to Mortal Kombat in that they will walk all over you unless you know how to fight against them and exploit their limited intelligence. They have infinite weapons, pinpoint accuracy and they'll chase the player like flies on shit. You need to memorize the locations of Health Pickups, grab all Homing Missiles and also know how to perform Special Moves like the Freeze and Shield. You can't clear the game without them.I think it's the combination of having precision while trying to both drive a vehicle and fire weapons (accounting for deflection and everything) on top of memorizing where all the items are is what overwhelms the common player, hence why the genre died out. You can create a huge skill gap simply by having map knowledge, even if you control the vehicle like shit or have shit aim; the fact that you know where everything is and they don't puts you at a greater advantage most of the time.
>>9128954The game isn't really that fun. Impact racing is a more interesting game even with its flaws.
>>9126754They tried to cash in on Twisted Metal's popularity, then none of those games were popular and Twisted Metal eventually stopped being popular too.
>>9130404the difficulty in TM2 is pretty brutal, even after playing it for years
>>9128690reminds me of thisway less fun than it should be for some reason
>>9126754Rock n roll racing was pretty tits. And the unofficial remake that blizzard killed "motor rock"There was also a newer arena car combat game I forget it's name though.....it was all kinds of ass. I still hop on rage 1 sometimes for funtimes
Rogue Trip was a better Twisted Metal 3 than Twisted Metal 3. But why the ska soundtrack?
And of course New Blood is making a Twisted Metal 2 successor.https://twitter.com/NewBlood/status/1537230256389914624?s=20&t=SvV4mp_-7v6l-ZWbQP1pfw
>>9126754because people are casual faggots that's why. twisted metal black was an excellent blend of vehicle combat, nihilistic/dark edginess with a tint of horror, and had great multiplayer/coop. they should have made a sequel or hell even a dark fucking tv series would have been badass. some stupid fucking nigger is going to ruin whatever bullshit twisted metal series he is making turning it into a comedy
>>9132293>Rock n roll racing was pretty tits.My man. Surprises me how few people know about this gem despite how famous Blizzard is.
>>9132343TM3 and 4 don't exist.
>>9126792Vigilante 8 is great.And fuck it, I'm gonna count Battletanx too
>>9133357Neither TM1 and 2. The whole series is an unfunny hoax started on gaming magazines, though dimwits love to pretend they played the games.
>>9133941Amusingly to me 3 and 4 actually never existed as they never got a PAL release. I got off lucky.
>>9133357tm3 and 4 exist and they're both fun
>>9134116I don't think the games are that shitty, either. Everyone bucks on them for not having the same kind of charm that the first two games did, but nobody seems to understand why they turned out the way they did.The games play alright, especially considering that the fucktard David Jaffe lost the source code to TM2 thanks to him being a dama-laden faggot and the devteam for TM3 had to do their best to re-create the experience in little than 10 months or so. It has a nice game engine, 60FPS target (though the PS1 rarely maintains that at all times) with high detail (for the console, anyway) and complex physics compared to simple ones. They did their best with the resources they had and the time they were allotted.TM4 was when they had the time to polish everything up and took all of their feedback from TM3 into account:>tuned the physics, much more snappy and responsive now>no more annoying rollovers>finally added the Shield, along with other useful Special Moves like Hyperspace should you want a second chance if you fall out-of-bounds>AI doesn't automatically seek out Health Pickups when they have <60% healthThis was such a huge complaint about TM3; the moment any AI enemy reaches <60% health, they will immediately seek out a Health pickup the moment it appears. You either have to know the locations of where they spawn and patrol them, or camp them hoping you don't die in the process.>tweaked some of the weapons and added interesting new ones>battlegrounds have more depth and secretsOf course the original new character design is always up for debate but most of the traditional Twisted Metal archetypes are there. It's better than most if not all of TM3's original new characters, anyway.
>>9126754>/vr/ complains that a genre died>he's alive and bigger than everDerby demolition games are really big now
>>9135845>the fucktard David Jaffe lost the source code to TM2 thanks to him being a dama-laden faggotPlease, tell more!
>>9133958>Be me in 2001>Still play TM2 with friends>Live in France>Go to import video game store in Marseille.>Only japanese games>Go to another import store>See Twisted Metal 3Wtf Ils ont fait Twisted Metal 3 !>See Twisted Metal 4Quoi ils ont aussi fait le 4 ?>Buy them>Play on my Pal PS1 with action replay-like>No soundtrack because action replay-like
>>9126754>Why did the Car Combat subgenre die out?There's a new Mario Kart for every console generation, this covers most of the all-ages market, the rest is either too old to drive, has to deal with vehicular insanity on a daily basis, or won't ever be able to own a car.There was a new Carmageddon in the mid 2010s though, and also a Road Rash inspired motorbike game.
>>9135845they tweaked most of the things up nicely for TM4 but they made the weapons way too weak It takes forever to kill someone in TM4
>>9135847that's not the same as the twisted metal/vigilante 8 style
>>9136320sucks that you missed out on the kino soundtracks
At least in TM4 the other contestants fight each other instead of just fighting you, like the fucking contest should be.
>>9136621Plus the characters are almost all terrible. Why the fuck is Rob Zombie a character?
>>9135845Actually Singletrac owned the engine and the source code for Twisted Metal 1 and 2 while Sony owned the name. Singletrac's later games like Critical Depth and Rogue Trip use Twisted Metal 2's engine. And so does Small Brawl for that matter.
>>9129536I played that shit so much when I was a kid
>>9136715So Jaffe told another lie I guess? That information was obtained from the sit-down extras interview that's on the Twisted Metal Head-On Extra Twisted Edition for PS2, the same interview where Jaffe said that TM3/4 "aren't bad games, but they're bad Twisted Metal games". Losing the source code is an entirely different story than not being able to license it if what you say is true.>>9136241Not entirely sure about the source code deal now thanks to what >>9136715 posted but he's basically an egotistical drama queen whose bitchy reputation kept causing him to break up with dev teams many times in the past due to frequent disagreements. Twisted Metal 2012 was the last project with Jaffe and Scott Campbell before the team disbanded. They went through three different names throughout their lifespan; first was SingleTrac, second was Incognito Entertainment, and then the final one was Eat Sleep Play.Jaffe was finally left entirely to his own devices after separating from the original TM team three times and probably warming out his welcome at SCE Santa Monica. He was the co-founder of a new studio called "The Bartlet Jones Supernatural Detective Agency"; if you hadn't guessed from the Lost Endings of TM1, the cutscenes of TM2012 (and the trophy that mocks the player for sitting through them without skipping) and the name of the aforementioned company, Jaffe is a wannabe movie director than a game developer, much like Hideo Kojima. Their only project, "Drawn to Death", ended up being a colossal failure, with Jaffe having to close up his newfound company a year after the game's release. Nowadays Jaffe shitposts on the Internet, dying on the hill of being the Director/Designer of "God of War" as a means to persuade others that his words and opinions about the game industry are still worth a shit. Pretty sure that he'll never come clean about how disagreeable he was with his former coworkers but the earnest viewpoints of said coworkers say it all.
Twisted Metal Head On is better than Black.
>>9126862america produces the worst schizos
>>9136704because he has songs on the soundtrack and he's cool
>>9136678tm4 is pretty much the only car combat game where the other cars actually fight each other. In most other car combat games and the other cars just drive around endlessly and wait to attack you
>>9137234twisted metal doesn't even need jaffe unless you only care about TM having the grimdark tm black aesthetic
>>9137319twisted metal head on is really fun but it's way too easy
>>9137234Thanks a lot for your writing! Is there any screencap of David Jaffe being an ass on the internet?
>>9129536That game would've been so much better if it was more focused on car combat/stunt drive and less on shitty races. The idea of car combat with Hot Wheels sells itself and I'm surprised nobody has made another one.
I wonder how a modern Twisted Metal would work.
>>9137416Dunno if his old Twitter posts are still up but just read those. Also his YouTube channel where he calls out a lot of people disputing his claims about whatever with facts.>>9137390If they created a God of War 3 just fine without him, they can create another Twisted Metal just fine without him. I like the games because of the vehicular combat genre and the unique vehicles, not the pretentious Hollywood director bullshit.
>>9138941Destruction all stars bombed.
Its really not so bad if you have a notepad next to you for passwords and you learn the maps. My biggest issue was always Holland because there is no where to hide you just have to play excellent to advance.
>>9139259the pretentious hollywood director shit is exactly what jaffe brought to the series
I hate how my favorite car is stuck in 1 game
>>9140057it's also in that twisted metal lost demo thing on head on extra twisted edition
>>9140057>>9140151Pit Viper hasn't been in a game since the original.
>>9140057It's literally just Outlaw.
>>9140183TM2 had grasshopper instead
Car controls fucking suck when youre trying to aim. Having to lose momentum, reverse, fall off a small cliff and lose control of your vehicle, sucks ass. Cool in concept but shit in execution. The most interesting part about it was each cars special move they could pull off. Im sure if you made the cars less clunky I'd be a fun arena fighter though.
>>9139271Destruction Allstars was much more like Destruction Derby than Twisted Metal.
>>9126754Cel Damage was amazing, though I feel Cinder is a bit OPPlayed on Gamecube, I heard they fucked up the PS2 port, not sure about the Xbox version, but if it had xbox live it would have been god-tierThey made a HD port but made the mistakes of the ps2 version, and to this day there isn't a good way to play onlineI would kill to have an online Cel Damage with the vine swings intact
>>9126805very surprised by this. lots of money to be made.
>>9126778>their target demographic was mostly buying FPS and TPS gamesThis. On 5th gen they were stand ins for FPS games that thrived on PC, thematically adapted for tank controls.That being said, i never got into the genre despite several attempts. The controls felt too twitchy and too unresponsive at the same time, even in TM Black that used sticks. Interstate 76 and 82 were the ones i played the most, but they are in the different genre.
>>9129803HTA is a totally different game. That being said, it is impressive what modders did with it, adding car customization with engine, gearbox and tank combos, even traveling merchants and semi trailers.
>>9135847Like what? Anyway, they are not the genre in question.
>>9141341I only played the switch re-release of cel damage and thought it was boring
>>9136704Yeah i hate this shit. Like fine give him a character inspired by him, but just literally the singer as a driver is so retarded and pandering. Its like if Brutal Legend literally had Jack Black as its main protag. Why the fuck would you even want to just be yourself in a game when you could do some over the top oc version of yourself?
>>9140945Yeah and it was the most pozzed shit imaginable.
>>9128741Right? It would be fun as hell.
>>9132349Can't wait for those empty servers maps
What is the best car and why is it OG Sweet Tooth?
>>9126754Hot tip:Car combat died because it sucked.
>>9143201in tm1 and 2 I like thumper. I also really like the tm3 spectre (the dodge viper one)
>>9142662the character is "mr zombie" not rob zombie
>>9126781You mean that one with dancing fat sassy negress? It was a total disaster
>>9143201i thought the clown head being a 2d sprite was neatthe way it rotates and always faces you
>>9126792This was probably my most played PS1 game. Enjoyed Critical Depth too. For some reason, I never discovered the TM games as a kid.
Interesting game I found recently for the Atari Lynx of all things, Battle Wheels.
>>9126754You’re forgetting Muppet Adventure Racing, the peak of the genre.
>>9143741critical depth is a cool idea but it's not fun to play
for me it's twisted metal 3 spectre
When I was a kid I used to create OCs for Twisted Metal. I don't think any of them were as bad as the characters in 3 and 4.
>>9146383axel is fucking annoying to play against
>>9146551club kid, firestarter, orbital, quatro, and garbage man are all pretty good
Death Rally, SCARS, V8: Second Offense.
>>9144127The soviet ending is nightmare fuel.
>>9147321so is the intro, and almost every other ending. the only positive ending is probably the surfer guy
>>9126754Drone combat would be a cool idea. But maybe a bit nauseous
They did make Auto Age: Standoff. My kids like it but I think it sucks
>block ur path>>9126754Honestly because they weren't that good. Interstate '76 was great, but a lot of them were like pic rel. I played Streets a lot as a kid so I have an affinity for it. This game had the best in-game radio stations ads, ever. >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij8g7szF0WA
2 has the best soundtrack.
>>9132293Rock n roll racing is a racing game not car combat Would you call Mario Kart car combat?Excluding battle mode of course
>>9126754Have you tried playing tank games?You might like them
>>9146551share some, dude. What cars, what specials, etc
>>9152339Oh its been years. I've long since forgotten and lost the drawings.
>>9152352aw damn dude
>>9151834such a fucked up game but I played it a lot too
I liked games like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoQKVe0pv8
>>9152575Have you heard of SimStreetsX, a compatibly patch for modern Windows? >http://krimsky.net/patchers/ssx.html
Vangers definitely take award for weirdest setting and craziest plot. Same company also made a turn-based kart racing game but I haven't played it.
>>9126754But CTR did it better
>>9126862This man is right, Rocket League is only popular because of brazilians and other such creatures
>>9132493It was Silicon & Synapse then and probably no one from this team working at blizzard today.
Because the combat gets in the way for the racing fans, and the racing gets in the way for combat fans.
>>9143761Is it exclusive? How does it play?
>>9153038that's not the same thing at all
>>9152956looks and sounds pretty good. i bet it's impossible to play it on windows 10?
>>9155040Yes it is, CTR had battle mode. Imagine missing out on CTRs battle mode LMAO, you really didn't play that with your friends?
>>9155057I don't remember but I think its a DOS game so dosbox, also theres a PS1 portbtw the game is super mediocre, but I played it a lot as a kid, because well, didn't know any better I guess
>>9154992It's exclusive yes, its a nice little game, really good for pick up and play, since theres pretty much just deathmatch. Impressive handheld game for the early 90s IMO.
>>9135847No they aren't.
>>9126754Because everything is gay faggit chomo pedo anime homo buttfucker gay sex retarded nerd dweeb neck beard pussy geek shit now instead
>>9156619>What the fuck is a chomo?Our new schizo meant "pedo". He must have gone a little too low to start using that way of speak.He likes to delete these posts, so he's probably a janny (lol) too.
>>9157036Did the jannies give me a warning for replying to the schizo?
>>9136630But i can read music on PS1 menu. And plug on my Hifi, i have recorded some soundtrack on compact cassette.
>>9143201OG Sweet Tooth is dogshit. TM: Black Sweet Tooth is good. Axel is the best in TM 2.
>>9155085I was busy playing the superior diddy kong racing
>>9143201not down with the 'sweet roll' though - its when ST takes a ricochet to the side and then just rolls.. forever..
>>9131521im open for listening if any one has a consistent strategy for beating holland on Hard with any car. I get brick-walled with most the characters unless i come in with a huge stack of weapons from antartica. and that only works if i get lucky with perfect shield usages
>>9157805I still have trouble with holland on normal sometimes
>>9126754Same reason why RTS died.Casuals are the more profitable market, and they like simple and easy to understand games, which vehicle combat and real time strategy games aren't.
>>9157853RTS was never really a mainstream genre though, it was always niche
>>9126754You ever think to yourself that maybe the genre deserved to die because it wasn't very good? Can you at least admit it peaked long ago as a genre which is why it is dead?