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Why is so controversial to admit this game is good?

>but is easy
try to play without equipping any armor and having the weakest weapons in the game, is a totally diferent game, and quite hard.
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It's the highest rated by far. I think it's time to step away from the 4chan.
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Because you aren’t allowed to like anything other than the 8 bit Castlevania games.
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>>8126710
>A really popular game widely and consistently considered good is called overrated or outright bad with proportional vehemency
Shocking
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My only problem with the game is that the inverted castle is not as fun to traverse.
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>>8126710
I played it when it was relatively new, thought it was kind of dull. Sick of hearing how amazing this game is.
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It's good, it's just worse than most of the games that came before or after.
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>>8126746
I agree, but that's inevitable at that point in the game unless it forced you to get the appropriate skills again, which would be a bummer by itself. I actually appreciate how you can go about it any way you want exactly for that reason; it's the only part of the game that's truly non-linear
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>>8126754
You mean one guy pushing that narrative?
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>>8126746
I did the whole thing without knowing how the high jump boots worked.
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>>8126865
Correct
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>>8126746
I never got to the inverted castle. I beat Richter and had enough.
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Literally impossible
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>>8126710
In terms of gameplay it's mediocre. Unless you go out of your way to make use of the spells and harder to find weapons in the game there is not a lot to it.
I like it because of the music though.
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>>8126710
>Why is so controversial to admit this game is good?
What? Stop taking stupid hipsters seriously. My only issue with the game is that it's too easy but it's still fun
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>>8126710
Because the Saturn version is better.
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>>8127015
I used to believe this earnestly until I actually bought it (this was before people caught on). Ho-lee-shit, do you people get off on tricking others?
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Because it is shit. Dracula X came out 2 years prior and blows it out of the water so hard.
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>>8126963
richter is even more broken than alucard
hydro storm and mash out the uppercut
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>Why is so controversial to admit this game is good?
What? It makes every PSX top ten list. 4chan contrarians are getting to you.
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>>8126746
yeah, I dropped the game at this point.
>>8126710
it's simply too popular, it's THE 2D Castlevania game to most people. So a natural backlash has developed since there's a number of better games in the series that don't get as much attention.
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>>8127437
>So a natural backlash
since there's a number of better games
lol
More like salty retards mad that their personal favorite isn't as well liked. That's how this always goes
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>why does 4chan express a contrarian opinion?
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>>8127492
almost all of the "classic"vania games are better than SOTN, that's just fact
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>>8127518
>my opinion
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>>8126710
>but is easy
I don't get it either, it's not like Super Metroid is hard at all.
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>>8127584
and SM doesn't have a single boss as challenging as Galamoth (without thunder absorbing equipment), optional or not.
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>>8127586
>he doesn't know shield rod combos
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>>8127601
I know them, I don't use them the same way I don't spam KOTR in every FF7 fight
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>>8127613
if you have to use multiple self-administered restrictions to make a game hard, it isn't hard
why not beat super metroid with no missile expansions in under 2 hours backwards
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>>8127620
>why not beat super metroid with no missile expansions in under 2 hours backwards
You're seriously asking that about the game with the most run variations in history?
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>>8127632
I specifically chose one that could be done. Backwards boss order WR is less than an hour.
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>>8126710
>is a totally diferent game, and quite hard.
Still very easy even with no weapons at all.
You could restrict yourself to no weapons, no magic, no sub-weapons, no upgrades, and no items but that's pretty fucking boring.
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My biggest problem was how poorly made most of the bosses were. I stunlocked half of them without meaning to.
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>>8127707
I have zero memory of fighting Cerberus even though I played it for the first time less than three weeks ago and the game tells me I beat it. I can only assume that I must have been really overleveled when I found it and killed it in like five seconds.

Some of the boss fights like Legion or Galamoth were interesting and kind of required strategy or something, but a lot of others seemed almost deliberately really easy.
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>>8127767
>a lot of others seemed almost deliberately really easy.
they had some guy in testing that had to be able to no damage clear the boss consistently before it was considered done. now theoretically that's great design, but he must have been severely underlevel.
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>>8127817
It's not good design when the strategy to no damage clear Death is just to walk up to him and mash the attack button because he has a long-ass damage animation, so he stops flashing before he can attack or move and you can just whack him again.
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read em and weep boys.

the ghost is fucking useless.
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>>8127909
Depends
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>>8127937
on? please tell me. i'm really struggling to find a use for it.
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>>8126746
Yeah it was great up until the inverted castle. I don’t know why it sucks so bad but it do.
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>>8127963
Healing the player beyond a certain level?!
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>>8127974
I had a blast.
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>>8127963
some obscure bullshit
> if Alucard casts the Shield Rod + Skull Shield spell while wearing the Mystic Pendant and the Ghost Familiar is present, there is a 1/18 chance that his MP will be restored from 75% to 100% if Alucard's MP bar is below 45%.
>once the Ghost Familiar is at least at Level 70, it will heal Alucard for 8 HP per attack.
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>>8126746
Um, spoiler alert?
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>>8128007
hahahhaahahahahahaha

so that's a bug right
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>>8128007
>info publicly available
>obscure
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It's not that the game is too easy. It's just that it allows you to be too powerful. But I would argue that's not actually a bad thing.

A game doesn't need to be hard to be good, and being harder doesn't automatically mean better. 4chan generally doesn't understand this, because autists think being good at videogames is somehow meaningful or important. They do not understand the real reason why difficulty in some games is good, and mistakenly apply the logic to all other games.

SotN is great because of the variety of playstyles it supports, the quality of the music and artwork, and the overall game feel. I don't think it would actually benefit from being more difficult, it wouldn't really add anything. It has a fairly steep difficulty at first if you are new to the series/genre; but if you're paying attention you'll figure out how to tear things up pretty fast, and I think that's actually what a lot of players actually like about the game.
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If sotn is the easiest one , which is the most difficult?
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>>8128704
Yeah good post. You can break the game, but you don't really know you can until you've gone through the game a few times, or get stupid lucky.

I wonder how many people realize how good Alucard Shield + Shield rod is their first time through?
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>>8126710
Maybe because it's not one of the originals on nes/snes?
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>>8126710
Because hipsters, look, is it a bit easy sometimes, yes it is, can the inverse castle be boring at times, yeah kinda, personally i would move the Poison Mist Upgrade to before the last part of the game, around the reverse crystal cavern, or even better, in the Inverse Castle Entrance, therefore actually justifying getting all the way over there and fighting all those Beam/Nova Skeletons and the Warg Riders, sure it would be optional, but i think it would be better then just getting the damn thing at the very end making it kinda useless (unless you wanna farm on the Final Guardians), as a matter of fact, Aria, Dawn and even Bloodstained has the issue of getting the ultimate powerup near the last bit piece of the game when it could be awesome to have it, no, not earlier, but maybe have a slightly regulated version at the middle, and being able to upgrade it to its maximun form.

A new game + with the ability to either keep your level exp, or your special abilities would be very sweet tough, why couldn't IGA ever get this right, instead he gave us ANTI-rewarding modes like meme lv1 mode or 1 HP mode?
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>>8128745
are we talking Castlevania games as a whole, or the metroid-y ones?
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>>8127350
But even with the ''allegedly'' power up HP upgrades, it still feels like you die in 2 hits, specially with Galamoth, at least with MAXIM in HoD you actually get more hearts and it is indicated and felt that you get HP MAX out (No leveling tough).
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>>8128704
>A game doesn't need to be hard to be good,

THIS, and a lot of this NEW RETRO REVIVALS really miss the mark on this, sometimes, some people are old and dont want to suffer while playing a game, and i am not talking about the ''accessibility meme''.
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I don't think the game is that hard even if you use shitty weapons, most of the enemy/boss patterns are not particularly amazing.

That being said it's a goodass game. It's a nice little atmospheric toybox with lots of fun weapons and abilities to play around with, all with memorable audiovisual feedback.

It's style over substance sure but it's pretty much the best style ever to the point that it's actually fun to play it for the style, so it's worth a replay from time to time.
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>>8128704
very long winded way of saying style over substance, faggot.
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>>8128704
my very first time through i encountered zero difficulty in the inverted castle. not even with galamoth. and i wasn't using healing items or some absurd equipment combo other than higher number = better
the game is easy. you're required to explore in extreme detail to even get to the other castle, and if you've been exploring you're high level with incredible gear
alucard can do a lot but it's more than possible to get through the entire game by just mashing jump slash, and that's what most people will do. simply giving the bosses more hp and attack, like the six subsequent metroidvanias, would make people actually care about all the -interesting things you can do
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>>8128704
It's not either/or. Rondo of Blood had excellent exploration, and the difficult level was perfect. It was actually challenging and I failed at first, but if you played a while suddenly you find yourself absolutely kicking ass and making it to the end. It always felt fair.

With SotN, why couldn't they have just balanced the combat better? They also seriously had to tone down some of the exploitable weapon combos in SotN. Like, seriously, who the fuck thought they should program Schmoos to drop Crissaegrim? Even just one practically breaks the game, much less dual wielding. How can you defend that?
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>>8126969
The OST slaps. I enjoy the game for the mood, atmosphere and nostalgia for a boring rainy day in the late 90's.
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>>8128791
All of them
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>>8127909
Based sword bro maxed out with the Mojo Mail fucking breaks the game (when it's not swooshing around, that is). Can any of the other familiars pull of the same thing?
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>>8129075
This was the game that i discovered in the early 2000s, years after it came out trough my cousin, he had it burned on CD and played on modchip, which i dont know if it was new or not at the time, i am mexican and my cousin too, but he lives in the US, so usually we used to go and visit him and my auntie, those were really nice times, the game was what want me to get into playstation, and was the first castlevania game i truly played (i only ever tested Castlevania 3 on NES as a rental but didnt like it).

Whatever you like it or not, SotN was for many, the first accessable Castlevania, like i knew about the series already, but never really got into playing them in full, after testing SotN for the first time, i played Super Castlevania 4 on SNES as one of my last ever rentals from blockbuster when they still had games from the console, and the next time we visited our relatives in the US, i focused on playing SoTN with my cousin, and he would later lend me his copy (i still have it, doesnt work of course, but i still keep it)
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>>8129112
a level 1 fairy if you've bought lots of items?
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>>8129110
I'd put 1 and 3 USA pretty high up there, though even 1 shows mercy with infinite continues and putting you back at the bottom of Dracula's staircase if you game over.
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>>8129126
CV3 USA is the hardest one, no contest. Apparently I went through the easiest route (the one without the falling blocks) and it still was a fucking nightmare. The game feels downright malicious at times especially compared to how fair CV1 was.
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>>8129112
eh, no. the demon's damage is okay but if you're looking to do max damage, that's not ideal.
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>>8127256
Oh boy, everyone's favorite ContrariVania. Straight-to-video Rondo is okay and the only medal it wins is "least shitty SNES CV game", it is not a genre defining classic you shitposting shitheel.
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>>8129130
Who did you take as a partner? I find Grant makes things easier, though I find him to also be really fun to play.
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>>8126746
Don't like it? Don't play to 200%
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>>8128704
Best post ITT
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>>8126963
I cheesed this nigger. Got stuck behind his knee and just axed him with a big hitbox weapon.
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my opinion of sotn is like, "cool," i don't know that it's super great as a video game. i think you know what i mean even if you disagree with me. koji igarashi did an amazing job on tokimeki memorial and i think he probably should have stayed there. i'm not even a classicfag or anything
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>>8126710
controversial is to admit that the Sega Saturn version is better
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>>8128790
Japanese simply have other preferences when it comes to game styles.
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>>8128704
And there you have Ecclesia that require glyph swap to "cheap out" "tough opponents" and Analyze in Vagrant Story combined with 3-4 different minmaxed weapons which "break the game". Before the internet you either had to discover this shit by yourself or depend on your skill alone where game allowed that, otherwise you just get bored with god mode or frustrate on damage sponges.
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>>8128704
A game being hard is how it supports the different playstyles. In a good RPG you switch your strategy to account for new obstacles. SotN never puts up enough of a barrier to motivate experimentation. Getting a new item feels insignificant if it isn't helping you beat the latest boss.
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What's the general opinion of this hack?
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6125/
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>>8128790
Use a GameShark and make your own ng+
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>>8126710
im trying to remake this for the genesis, i think its going to blow you filthy pavement apes away
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>>8129918
Be prepared to be canceled if you release it under a traceable username now.
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>>8129971
they cant do shit lol theres no proof this is me
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>>8126710
The only people who downright hate it are /vr/gins and really traditional/close-minded CV fans. It's unanimously acclaimed by pretty much anyone else, for good reason.
Also, my brother and I introduced several different friends to SotN over the years (hardcore and casual, boomer and zoomer) and I can tell you it's a game of at least average difficulty (although with an unusual curve, which gets easier as it goes on); it's only seen as easy in relation to its own franchise, which has a tradition of some of the toughest sidescrollers ever

Captcha SONT8 lol
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>>8130086
I don't hate it. It being "easy" isn't the issue I have with it. It is dull. Tons of empty space, no platforming challenges, leveling system that trivializes later bosses.
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>>8129918
So is your Maria going to be Saturn Maria, PSP Maria, or something new? Where's Richter?
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>>8129996
hide the word nigger in the rom somewhere
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>>8129146
I hope that's bait.
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I was confused about why it's hyped up as the be all and end all of Castlevania when I first played it, since I had already played Aria of Sorrow, and that one's better. It's still good.
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>>8129508
>And there you have Ecclesia that require glyph swap to "cheap out" "tough opponents"
ecclesia is the only game in the series where you need to learn boss weaknesses
works really well since there's no basic attack, just tons of spells
it's not cheaping out, it's playing the game correctly. i wish sotn was balanced the same way
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>>8130652
It's easy to balance a difficulty curve when the game is linear. OoE only opens up at the end of the game when you are familiar with all the different glyphs.
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>>8130671
this is true but ecclesia is still way harder
the first boss in ecclesia is the giant crab that takes up 50% of the screen and literally can't be killed with your weapons
the first boss in sotn is two late game enemies in a giant empty space perfect for running away
dracula in ecclesia is a nightmare and in sotn he's a joke. etc
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this threads just come and go

bitches they come and go.
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>>8126710
I wish we could have gotten a combination of the Sega Saturn and PlayStation versions. Saturn has additional stuff that I like, but has lesser graphics, with stuff like transparency needing to be dithering effects. One of the capes had to be changed because of that. Also, there's no cool screen melting when you die, just a fade to white. However, the Saturn version lets you select Alucard, Richter, and Maria right off the bat, which was a nice change, and it even included some new music tracks for Richter and Maria.

Then the diva asshole IGA decided that he didn't like the additional Saturn stuff because he didn't make them, therefore they're bad. So in the Rondo of Blood remake, the SoTN port was based mostly off the PlayStation version. No additional areas and enemies, no Godspeed Boots, no new music, and Maria was drastically changed. He probably thought, "Fine, I'll have Maria be playable, but she can't play the way she played in Saturn, because I had nothing to do with that, and like hell I'm going to accept someone else's ideas. I'm gonna make Maria MY way." Ditto for the rest of the stuff from Saturn that was taken out. He didn't have a hand in it, and all he cares about is what HE thought up, so why would he put it in? Fuck that guy's ego.

It bugs me that gameplay-wise, the Saturn version is pretty much definitive, but across all the different versions and ports from PlayStation 1, PSP, PS4, etc. the Saturn version remains only on the Saturn hardware. And graphically, it suffers a little bit too, but the version with slightly better graphics is stripped of its "Final Mix" content. I wish someone could make a hack for the PS1 version that adds all the Saturn stuff.
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>>8131235
How about two versions of Maria? IGA's Maria that plays like Rondo and a "Dark Maria" that plays like she did in the Saturn version.
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>>8126710
It's a fine and fun to play game, better than The GBA Castlevanias and Metroids, but it's not as good as Super Metroid. The worst thing it did was introduce RPG elements into Metroid-likes.
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>>8131235
>Saturn version lets you select Alucard, Richter, and Maria right off the bat, which was a nice change, and it even included some new music tracks for Richter and Maria.
That's not really a plus when you consider that it makes it less obvious that Alucard's playthrough is the main game and the others are bonuses - at least make it unlockable via a cheat code instead of Richter's vomit-inducing sprite edit. Music is 50/50 - the remixes are serviceable (one or two stand out, even), but it misses the point that Symphony of the Night is unlike everything that came before it, so its soundtrack was trying to be different as well (we've basically just got the Rondo Dracula and Richter themes). GUARDIAN, Maria's theme, is very original and feels like something that could've been in the original game. It'd even go as far as to say it's the single best contribution the Saturn version has made and should've stuck around as Maria's theme.
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>>8131235
>[IGA ramblings]
He's got a point. The quality of Konami Nagoya's work didn't match the caliber of the original team. How do you create load times over a FONT? Why didn't the game utilize any of the Saturn's strengths? "Skeleton Leader"? And why was the spritework for the new content so distractingly amateur (Maria's horse, bucket-tool Richter, etc)? I just noticed recently that when you're about to fight Maria, her NPC sprite DISAPPEARS to RELOAD her alternate spriteset for a second. That never would've flown in the original game. Areas are also, simply put, not good. Cursed Prison is too easy to grind, Underground Garden is completely pointless (and if you look closely in the PlayStation version, the unfinished trap door area looks like it would've likely led to Underground Cavern), and the good ending's map completion threshold wasn't updated as it adds on top of the existing percentage. You won't even really need Godspeed Shoes by the time you get them because you'll already know faster methods of movement. IGA's flaw during TDXC was paying too much attention to the fans bombarding him with Saturn/Maria requests when he could've focused on bugfixing issues and the portrait oversight. Saturn Maria was a decent boss with okay sprites but stilted animation; PSP Maria was a horrible boss with out-of-place sprites but good animation. They couldn't've been more different, with the only thing in common being that they were interesting to learn as playable characters. Saturn Maria had the unfair advantage of being built off of "Black Maria", the deleted boss, which is why she felt so different from Rondo. PSP Maria was added to the game many years later and both looks and feels like it. In honesty, what IGA should've done if anything was bring back the possessed Maria boss that the Saturn version was based on, as it doesn't even make sense for Maria to fight Alucard otherwise. All in all, the Saturn version is the textbook example of good ideas, bad execution.
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>>8126710
It's not controversial, but metroidvania games are so similar that there's really no point in playing symphony over something better like Aria so I can understand people not cating that much about it nowadays. Still good though
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>>8131974
There was supposed to be a fight with Maria in the psx version.
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>>8127683
This, probably the only particularly hard parts of SoTN are Galamoth and Shaft, and even then. OP needs to get off his high horse and just accept that people have actually legit gripes with SoTN, and not just for being easy, either. A game doesn't need to be difficult to be good or even just fun, but SoTN's level design isn't exactly great, either. That's okay, though, because being piss easy with all this broken shit to break the game with is probably the best part about SoTN.
>>8127767
>removing the entire shell makes Legion go nuts with lasers
Actually an interesting way to fight him that I only recently figured how to beat without getting hit to oblivion trying to do so.
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>>8132183
>Actually an interesting way to fight him that I only recently figured how to beat without getting hit to oblivion trying to do so.
Literally just stand to the left where the lasers can't hit and use anything with range.
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>>8129508
>"cheap out" "tough opponents"
More like in order to do reliable damage at all. There's also something to be said of how each weapon and spell glyph, outside of weaknesses and resistances, also operates differently and has varying levels of use depending on the situation. Swords are quick and do good damage on an enemy in front of you, but harder hitting sickles with more reach are better for when you're fighting airborne enemies or on sloped terrain.
>>8128704
SoTN supports multiple playstyles because it doesn't really punish you for picking a bad one at a bad time, which is to say, the game is really that damn easy with seemingly little if any thought put into its design. In fact, it's probably the thoughtless design that people are taking issue on some level when they bitch about how easy it is. Barring maybe Aria, a lot of the games after SoTN may be easy but they aren't braindead.
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>>8132186
>Literally just stand to the left
Well fuck me, I had been jumping to the left to avoid the lasers, and even that I discovered by accident.
>use anything with range
No can do, gov, gotta punch the shit out of everything.
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>>8130893
>dracula in ecclesia is a nightmare
You know you can lightsaber his ass onto oblivion with one broken glyph combination?
>>
SotN introduced the annoying practice of bad endings at the halfway point that require some obscure bullshit to bypass. I'll never forgive it for that.
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>>8132540
Even better, there's plenty of ways to tackle OoE Dracula. You'd think using Volaticus would be a bad idea since he'll just use that wall of purple fire if you so much as activate it, but I tested things out and found that so long as you keep to the top and not stop moving forward towards him, Dracula can never hit you with it. Even better, it resets his cycle in the first phase so you can force him to let you get behind him while he attacks if he gets smart and hugs the sides, and lets you totally skip over his attacks during the second. You can straight up turn his second phase into nothing but forcing him into using a shit move he can't hit you with and pecking at him with nitesco or what have you while he vanishes until Dominus time.
>>8133679
Isn't SoTN's conditions more lenient, though? It basically just amounts to covering the map and getting rings and then getting glasses that, even without prior knowledge, you would at some point think to use on Richter. Aria requires you to have a specific setup at a specific point because lore reasons, and Dissonance is vague as fuck even while giving you a hint when you fuck up. I still sometimes have to stop and think about it when I haven't played it for awhile.
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>>8133791
having to reach the distant corners the map is alright and reinforces that the point of the game is exploration
the stupid part is having to go to the clock room while wearing the rings. they don't explain this properly and it makes no sense
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>>8133850
While I do think that an astute player will realize what they're supposed to do by that point, I do agree with you at least to some extent. After all, they did fuck up the inscription, sending you to an entirely wrong place that's kind of a ways away from where you're actually to go.
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>>8128704

> It has a fairly steep difficulty at first if you are new to the series/genre; but if you're paying attention you'll figure out how to tear things up pretty fast

Agreed.

Part of the problem is fags who have played every single obscure 90s JRPG and shit (i.e 4chan neckbeards) looking at this game, and judging this game's super-light RPG mechanics and fun > balance approach it has to items by the same standard.

I have shown SotN to at least half a dozen of my friends, all of whom are "gamers" and would consider themselves pretty decent at games, and not a single one of them said it was too easy. All of them found it hard at first, and expressed that they were impressed watching me play. It didn't take them long to learn, but all of them had positive things to say.

It's basically people acting like cork-sniffing video-game wine connoisseurs who are experts on the subject, when the reality is they have played so many games that their tastebuds are totally blind and they've forgotten what it feels like to just have fun.
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>>8126710
Playing this for the first time and I wasn't expecting it to be so easy, but I'm barely at the part where you turn into a wolf so maybe that changes. Regardless its fucking gorgeous and the music is really great so far
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>>8133850
>>8135401
simons quest tier of dumb
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>>8127683
Still very easy even with no weapons at all.
I'd go so far and say that Alucard's fists are stronger than any early game weapons due to their speed and quirk to hit twice for some reason.
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>>8129345
Where did I say that I didn't like it?
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>>8129559
tried it out, got slightly past doppelganger 10 but i can tell the differences so far. base settings, no randomizer shit.
the guy wasn't able to tweak AI and shit so the first few bosses were still easy to loop to death. slogra & gaibon i went with fist only and didn't have any trouble. doppelganger was decently scary though, when i wasn't abusing his ridiculous stun time.
i could really feel the difference in the levels though. the bigger enemies were actually scary and the little ones at least demanded my attention because hp can be scarce.
hard to tell since the really stupid difficulty scaling stuff happens in inverted castle but i'm liking it so far. i imagine this would be ball-busting to someone who hasn't played sotn before and that's what i expect from a castlevania game.
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>>8131235
To be fair the extras levels are pretty bad as well as the music used for them. They had no value to the game
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>>8136535
They could've. If the Underground Garden led somewhere like the original passage was supposed to instead of being a dead end and the Skeleton Leader was replaced with something better, it'd have been barely passable. The Cursed Prison is a nice concept as a shortcut, but as an area, it definitely needed to be overhauled from scratch. It is wholly uninteresting.
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I have the saturn and the psx versions. Never played em, my buddy talks about this game like its the greatest game ever made though.
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>>8126710
A good game shouldn't need autistic self imposed limitations to fix it.
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>>8137069
Yeah but it isn't. Deal with it. The End.
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>>8129345
>just play half the game bro!
Damn, so good.
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>>8126746
Hard to traverse? Is that why people bitch about the second half? I never had any problem getting around. I thought it was just that (a) all the enemies died at one hit at that point and (b) you already knew where everything was so there was no fun to exploration; it was just checking off a check-box.
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>>8137352
He didn't say hard, he said not as fun.
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>>8137365
I disagree there too. Moving around is still plenty fun. Guess he didn't really understand the movement tools.
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>>8126710
It takes Super Castlevania Bros and turns it into Super Metroid Bros X
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>>8137352
>>8137423
I'm only half surprised that SoTN fans are willing to be this petty. No, it's not an issue of not understanding the movement options. The movement options just aren't fun to use especially in the context of the Inverted Castle. If they handled like in PoR where you can do things like interrupting a high jump with a midair jump for better control, you'd have more of a point, but instead, we get banging our heads on the ceiling and overly long transformation transitions. Before anyone says anything, no, the fact that Alucard can do it all without much if any fussing with menus doesn't make it better, because unlike the DS games where you don't actually have to do that all that often, SoTN expects you to use them a lot, especially in parts of the Inverted Castle.
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>>8136263
and now i'm taking 1 damage from bosses lol
god wtf is up with this game
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>>8137451
Yeah, nope. I just picked it up to refresh my memory (not that it's old; I played it for the first time not 1 month ago). 100% disagree. The jumps are more technical, more rewarding. You're constantly transitioning between different subtle movements to get over "ceiling" decorations in a fluent way rather than just backdashing or wolf-charging through everything. Even the "over long transformation transitions" feel good because (a) you have control over the moment that the transformation takes while you're leading into it and (b) once you've transformed, your ability to move in most transformations starts up on a dime and you can really seamlessly transition from a precise setup to a zippy follow-through. And sure there are sections here and there where you're doing nothing but slowly bat-climbing up, but it's not like those didn't exist on the bottom side.

I guess if you fundamentally don't like the movement mechanics in SotN you WOULD be bothered by being forced to use them.
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>>8138565
Your post is disingenuous bullshit. Neither regular jumping or high jumping is technical, because SoTN's platforming challenge is practically nonexistent and is largely just serves as tongue-in-cheek jokes about shit in the old games, like rising water or crows knocking you around. Unless you're doing it with a modicum of space like some of the underground shafts or big rooms like Legion/Galamoth's, you're probably going to hit your head on something, like in the inverted mist tower. You knew that, though, didn't you.

There's almost nothing good about the transformations, either. You only control the moment you transform, not the speed, and none of them are all that enjoyable to use once you you do transition. Bat form is slow, has a slow fireball move with no direction but straight forward, and yeah, it's tedious outside of wingsmashing, which for no good reason will force you back into human form after a distance if you don't switch to mist form and back. Attack echo is nice, I guess. Soma's bat form, especially in Aria, blows it out of the water because it doesn't fuck about with this shit. Instant transition, and more importantly, high speed, and you can even still shoot hellfire if you're running a Dracula soul setup. Wolf form is flat out made obsolete by bat form outside of going to the clock tower early, and putting that aside, is shit to handle and basically exists for wolf charge, really nothing snappy or seamless about it or bat form. I actually don't have much to bitch about mist form outside of it ceasing interaction with enemies. Invalidating Shaft's lightning attacks with mist form just isn't as much fun for me as, say, conserving and building up MP to abuse Grand Cross i-frames against True Dracula's wingsmash in PoR. It's not like I expected something else from mist form, and in fact it's probably the least shit in handling and everything, it just...would be nice if it had weaknesses, maybe? Like cold elements, perhaps?
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I like it but I prefer all the GBA and DS games.
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>>8126710
>controversial to admit its good
its rightfully highly regarded as one of the best games ever made.
The game is piss easy though no matter what you try to do. Biggest flaw
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>>8137281
You are not fun, it could work with some reworking.
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>>8133679
>WAAAAAH, i dont like secrets, WAAAAAAH

The Z0Y is stronger on this one, seriously, back then, the inverted castle was like, the biggest secret in gaming.
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>>8135401
>>8135753
>when you get screwed by localization
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I find it strange that most of the enemies die in one hit almost from the start in this game. Its one of the main things that I don't like. Those rooms in the colosseum (i think?) full of enemies in a tight space two of them being on horseback are the only times enemies brought me close to death and it was only through cheap shit like that. But I also learned on a whim that theres weird button combos like O and square at the same time with the shield rod and a shield equiped so maybe combat has more variety than I'm assuming because it doesn't feel all that great to fight stuff in this game.
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>>8126710
>Why is so controversial to admit this game is good?
Because there's no sense of direction with the level design. The game focuses more on going back and forth collecting junk rather than have you take on a dungeon full of creatures from hell.

>try to play without equipping any armor and having the weakest weapons in the game
The game isn't balanced well, that's its issue, having to hit low level enemies a gazillion times doesn't make it fun just before it's more difficult. You're merely taking a broken experience and turning it into another broken one.

SotN is nothing but a blueprint for greatness but the thing itself is leaving too much to desire.
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>>8131235
To be honest, after playing it, the extra stuff from the saturn version isn't really worth it for the most part. The few things I really liked were the running shoes, the bat being able to zip through screens until hitting an obstacle and a few new weapons. Maria mode kinda sucks to play. The rainbow cape is actually rad.

We got a recent patch fixing some things and doing much good.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6184/
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>>8139875
I always forget the Saturn has a lot of obscure ports, are any ever the definitive way to play? They always seem shitty
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>>8139138
The wolf dash is good to use in the library and back and forth to the clock room.



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