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>hitscan enemies bad
>projectile enemies good
is there a bigger midwit take?
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unrelated but where did the "zoomers hate hitscanners" meme come from? pretty much all popular/modern fps games have hitscanners and they eat that shit up
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>>7715056
Probably civvie because he'd rage at any hitscanners (mainly when he needed to get good or it was the map designs fault)
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I think hitscanners are fine, it really depends on how they're used in the map.
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>>7715056
/v/?
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>>7715060
gman was doing it before civvie
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the only people who shit on hitscan enemies are old senile farts who can't play tactically
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>>7715548
Nice strawman zoomie. Nobody had a problem with HS until you foetus-brained, vocal mongoloids got your spastic hands on retro shooters. Suck a dick.
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>>7715038
It's one of the biggest midwit takes.

>>7715548
This. Keep your mind sharp, don't let your brain become foggy with age so that you start sucking at games.
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>>7715056
Since Medal of Honor and Call of Duty
The snipers in these games can be extremely annoying
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>>7715548
It's literally the exact opposite. What kind of meds are you on?

>>7715610
>zoomers
>sharp minds

lmao
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>>7715038
This midwit take went so far in fact that nuDooms do not have such enemies at all.
Hitscanners are shit when they don't telegraph their attacks. In classic Doom there's a split second when zombie aims his gun before firing, which is just enough to take cover you should have nearby. Same for Pigcop in Duke 3D. These are good hitscan enemies. But then you have crap such as Shadow Warrior's ninjas or Blood's cultists. These are not fun to fight because there's no reliable way to avoid their attacks. You basically pray for RNG to not make them instantly shoot at you. Good thing these games at least have grenades/dynamites you can toss around corners.
Unfortunately most modern shooters which don't go for 'muh oldschool' trend make hitscanners the SW/Blood way.
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What's hitscan?
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>>7715672
If you're hit, the damage is immediate, there's no projectile. You can't dodge bullets in Doom unless you're out of their firing line.
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>>7715617
It's not about age, it's about not regressing.
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>>7715038
>>7715548
>>7715606
>>7715610
>>7715617
>>7715656
>being able to dodge bad
>getting hit good
Cope, boom booms.
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I don't mind hitscan but fuck if it doesn't make UVMAX an rngfest
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>>7715742
So just don't get hit?
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>>7715038
“water levels always suck”
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Just make it very fast projectiles like real life.
Gotta really be dashing at full speed perpendicular to the enemy to have a chance at dodging if the AI can't lead a shot.
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>>7715982
That one is true though.
Underwater mechanics are always a clunky afterthought.
One exception IMO is Majora's Mask which had fun swimming. Then the remake ruined it.
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>>7715038
It's definitely up there and it's such a tired argument.
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>>7715038
hitscan enemies are only fine as long as you're savescumming
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>>7715038
Hitscan enemies that give you some sort of fair warning before starting to fire (shotgunners, blood cultists on normal and below) are fine, chain gunners and extra crispy cultists that fire near instantly are not
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>>7716536
Why are you bad at videogames?
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>>7716646
Chaingunners are not instantaneous.
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>>7715038
just crouch bro lmao
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>>7716536
Hitscanners are good when they are weaklings compared to projectile enemies.
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The hate for hitscan enemies should actually be directed to shit level design enabling them to have an unfair advantage over the player.
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>>7715038
hitscanners exist in modern games. However, with the exception of some games that are played primarily in single player. No one has experienced this. All modern CODs have hitscanners
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>>7716751
Mostly this.
Having a Doom2 chaingunner across a map thats only 2 pixels in height when you look for him, still pegging you at that distance is bullshit. But clear and workable ones like in >>7716713 are a fine use. Hit scan enemies can make a tense situation where you need to be careful, but it shouldn't make situations where there is little you can do.
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There's nothing wrong with Blood's cultists at all. The game gives you all the necessary tools you need to counter them.

The flare gun and dynamite for when you don't want to expose yourself for too long.
Shotgun for close quarters.
Tommy gun for stun locking them.
And the voodoo doll for sniping.
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>>7716764
I've never been too crazy about Blood, but one thing I always appreciated about it is that every weapon has a use. To play correct you should be regularly switching to fit the situation. You can mostly just blast past most of Doom2 with the super shotgun, can't do that in Blood.
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>>7716751
the hate for hitscan also unironically falls on the fault of players who think retro shooters are just the "WOAH RUN AND GUN CONSTANTLY RUNNING SHOOTING RIP AND TEAR" archetype even though no game not even doom is like this and you need to actually play it with semi a brain
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Both are fine, if you're not a zoomer scrub.
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>>7715060
>>7715038
IIRC the "hit-scan bad" meme has been around the internet for long before that e-celebrity. But I think it actually came from an era of COD clones where there was a drought of projectile enemies and people looked back at Doom's Imps lovingly. But with everything good someone has to take it too far and fuck it up for the rest of us.
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In Rise of the Triad (the original one, not the remake), pistol enemies could miss if they shot at you from very far away. I distinctly remember hearing the ricochet sound when some of the lower-tier mooks shot at me from a long distance.
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>>7716774
>>7715038
Now I remember, the Hit-scan bad meme was born out of people getting sick of cover based shooters and clones, where everything was hit-scan. They wanted to get back to using circle strafing and Rocket Jumping. Older games while having hit-scan had far more opportunity for freedom of movement. NuDoom and Sgt Mark IV took that and bastardized the concept.
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>>7717012
>Now I remember, the Hit-scan bad meme was born out of people getting sick of cover based shooters and clones, where everything was hit-scan
Yeah, it's always been a misplaced opinion which should have been applied to less interesting shooters of more recent years. It was always weird to me when people got mods for GzDoom to turn hitscans into fast projectiles, like, sure, modding Doom is part of the point, but they basically don't want to learn how to deal with the original enemies.

If you look really far back, Wolfenstein 3D actually has a complex calculation for hitscan attacks based on distance and where you get hit, that's more advanced than Doom, where it offsets the shot based on the PRNG table, then checks the PRNG table again to see how much it hurts.
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>>7715656
>This midwit take went so far in fact that nuDooms do not have such enemies at all.
Blue shield guys are hitscan.
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>>7715038
I swear you Blood apologists are the worst. Blood was never huge back when it released. It was always overshadowed by Duke and no one gave a shit about it. It's only in recent years some vocal minority decided to dig up this game and put it on a Build engine pedestal for no reason.
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>>7717354
Their shots disappear entirerly after a small distance. It's practically a slightly longer than usual melee.
nuid is afraid of hitscans and that's a shame. At least there're Tyrants with their railgun attack. Not a hitscan technically, but from gameplay standpoint it does the same job - makes you respect enemy's line of sight. It's a nice thing to have among all those indistinguishable projectile throwers.
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>>7717649
Because it's really fun.
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>>7717649
I don't get it too. For me all holy trio Build shooters are equally fun, with janky combat and heavier focus on exploration. Blood is good, but there's nothing that makes it stand above Duke or SW. There are two weapons (shotty & dynamite) which are incredibly fun to use, but that's it.
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>>7717649
Anon the only reason Blood was "overshadowed" is because Quake was released a year earlier. Its hands down one of the best build engine games. Acting like a contrarian retard is the lowest tier of trolling. Get better bait.
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>>7717802
Yeah, by the time Blood came out, the QuakeWorld update for Quake was already out, and playing online with mods was the hot shit.
Didn't matter how good Blood was, it wasn't going to win over how revolutionary ez online play was at the time.
I miss playing quakeworld over dialup like you can't imagine.
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>>7717802
>>7717892
Didn't Blood have pretty good deathmatch?
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ultra-fast invisible projectiles are better than hitscanners
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>>7717903
Yup, absolutely did. But the build engine games never quite got the support that Quakeworld did.
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>>7715548
Actually it's just people who know what the most unfun custom Doom levels over-relied on for their challenge.
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>>7715548
it just becomes kind of samey
>cornerpeek until all the enemies are dead
weaving in an out projectiles might not necessarily be tactical but what you're kinetically doing is more interesting.
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>>7715548
I don't mind hitscan enemies, I hate that most vidya settings require they have a 100% monopoly on enemy types.
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>>7716751
no it should be directed at the priority narrative and setting have taken over gameplay design.
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>>7715056
tribes ascend
fuck the hitscan weapons in that game
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>>7715062
yeah, hitscan enemies 300km away is pretty awful, or if they are just in a circle around you in a giant open flat map.
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>>7715062
>mfw I literally made a deco mod that replaces all hitscan faggotry with tracers

ahh...perfected.
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I got the GOG version of Blood: Fresh Supply and that crap doesn't come out of Fullscreen by any means, does anyone knows how to fix it or have another version to share?
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>>7720442
Nevermind, got solved on the Doom thread,
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>>7715038

Basically there needs to be a way to consistently beat them without taking damage. In good games this is achieved by adding an obvious telegraph or delay before the attack that gives you just enough time to back off around the corner, Doom shotgunners are a good example.

Marines in Half-Life are a so-so example since they can and will open fire pretty much instantly as you peek around the corner once the fighting has already started. Now there are a couple of caveats with HL grunts and that is their inability to shoot while moving, this means that it is possible to flush them out of their positions with grenades and take free shots at them, but the problem is that nades are a limited resource and thus you won't always be able to beat them consistently without taking damage. They essentially become an unavoidable health tax.

In general I think when done the original Doom way, they're alright, but not particularly exciting. They can be a nice way to mix things up a bit and force the player to play a bit slower. Personally I prefer very pseudo-hitscan (very fast projectiles) that's basically undodgeable at close range, but consistently dodgeable when being shot at from a very long range. This way you still get the "slow the fuck down and play tactically" in CQB, but it also fixes the cunty 300 km away chaingunner issue on some custom doom maps.
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>>7715656
>>7715610
>midwit
Why do you have to spout this fedora shit instead of just calling people stupid retards? It makes you sound like the most pretentious and annoying sort of faggot imaginable.
>Heh... you're of average intelligence, unlike me, a genius of the highest caliber... fucking prole...
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>>7721895
People like you who argue semantics are complete midwits.
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>>7721918
Only people below average intelligence use the word midwit. Do you just keep parroting that word because you're a zoomer and you feel self-conscious calling yourself out?
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>>7715742
Arrest zoom zoom.



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