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>>7431703

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>>7431704

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>>7431710

Are new FMs still being developed or has the community died out?

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>>7431728
The FM in the OP was released December 31st of last year.

Castle Morgoth FM for Thief Gold.

>>7431815
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBkD0lyaqs

>>7431831
>>7431815
Looks nice, will give a shot after finishing Autumn in Lampfire Hills.

Why are people still making FMs for Thief 1? Isn't Thief 2 just a better more polished game overall?

>>7431860
No. There are subtle differences in things like lighting and NewDark means you can have way more scene complexity than oldDark T1 and T2 combined.

>>7431860

Both are good.

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Pic related is Recipe for Turmoil.

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>>7431884

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>>7431703
>>7431713
>>7431742
>>7431710
I can't see shit senpai
use reshade or something

>>7431964
no

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>>7431972
do it you nigger

pitch-black screenies won't bring your CRT experience back

>>7431728
It's still alive and well. Not as fast as it once was, but the missions are better on average. There was just another contest a month or so ago, and there are some big campaigns in the works.

>>7431860
Thanks to newdark the two games behave nearly identically. So if you want to make a mission that looks like Thief 1, there would just be extra work importing all the textures and models and sounds into 2 and making sure they all work right.

Does anyone actually play old FMs without newmantle? After getting so used to it I don't think I could ever go back to old mantle.

>>7432057
I think I am going to man and make a mission.

I loathe dromed its absolute shit but hey.

>>7432154
>I loathe dromed its absolute shit but hey.
It's really not that bad, just slightly wonkier than Worldcraft.

>>7432161
I just think its slow as shit. Compared to say how fluid trenchbroom is.

>>7432174
You may find this interesting. It's still in development but looks really cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6aDVErJUU

>>7432223
Comes way too late but looks really cool.

>>7432324
>way too late
Nah, if people are still playing 23 years later, they'll still do it for 10 more.
It's not like it has a good successor yet.

>>7432472
Dark Mod is good but it's also not a replacement, more like a free side project by Thief fans.

>>7432472
True. Maybe i do need to man up and make a mission.

I made a great cathedral back in the day in old ass dromed and lost the file to a electrical storm frying my old pc.

Ok, I've just finished Thief 3 last week but I've never played any of these mods. What are the top ones? I remember seeing one about some egyptian girl or something, seemed pretty fanfic-y. Is it good?

>>7432604
Thief 3 Deadly shadows? You mean 2.

Also you mean thief 2x? Yeah its fanficky. Nice levels but shit everything else.

>>7432618
No, I meant Deadly Shadows. I played the whole trilogy. So what's a good FM to start with then?

>>7432634
Deadly Shadows had a good setup I only wish it was made by LGS.

It would have had better writing and even cooler maps.

>>7432634
Depends on what type of missions you enjoy.

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>>7432634
The obvious choice is to play the missions of the TDP and TMA 20th anniversary contests. My votes would be:
Downtowne Funk
Sound of a Burrick in a Room
Lost Among the Forsaken
Tomb of Saint Tennor
Into The Odd
Feast of Pilgrims

The first two are human focused TDP style missions, the second two are undead focused, final mission is Life of the Party on steroids (with a much better Angelwatch equivalent), and Into the Odd is an experience.

>>7432997
Also note that this list is nowhere near comprehensive, just ones I played from the competition recently.

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>>7432970
Honestly, I enjoyed every type of mission but robbing mansions and the ones with the big sprawling city were my favorites. I wish there were something more creative with the pagans though, loved the mysticism/horror surrounding them.
>>7432997
Alright, I'll check those out.

>>7433087
Check Ascend The Dim Valley if you like Pagan stuff.

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Bumperino. Anyone else anticipating this?

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>>7431703
>>7431704
>>7431710
>>7431713
>>7431736
>>7431742
Thief FMs are so damn comfy. Even more-so than the base game. Why is that?

>>7433087
That was such a damn good cutscene. Made Garrett seem way more real than any other game protagonist I've seen.

>>7434286
Usually a lot more time to spend on adding little details and a better understanding of the engine than the original devs.

>>7434385
I think also the lack of bumpmaps, specular and other messy garbage newer games has contributes significantly to the comfyness.

>>7434393
The low fidelity graphics are a definite factor, in addition to the very immersive ambient loops. In my opinion the FMs for Thief Gold are some of the most immersive out there.

Which FMs are recommended for Thief Gold?

>>7434234
I cannot wait to play the same city mission 10 more times.

>>7435140
there are 20+ years of FMs
you're not going to get a comprehensive list

>>7434234
Yes.

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Playing Sabotage in Eastport, pretty good so far.

>>7435759
>Sabotage in Eastport

Looks nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPNYCbUqHTI

>>7435270
Does this look like one mission to you?

>>7434234
Brushwork and lighting looks great but man does that tree look like dogshit without texture filtering.

>>7435805
neat channel, wish they didn't use texture mods when doing their videos though. if that's you, stop it

>>7431964
>UsE ReShAdE!!!!
>doesn't post settings
ok I won't

>>7436258
The problem with the Enhancement Pack and why authors don't recommend it is that some models it replaces have wildly different geometry such as plates or trays that get sunk into tables or other furniture in 99% of cases. People shouldn't use any mods while playing FMs.

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>>7436272
Sorry, here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s0I1Rc4Owmlg9GkaCBY2UNGOAOrIRXRK/view?usp=sharing

>>7436339
reshade on Thief?

Does it look good on vanilla game? I do kinda miss crt blackness only for thief.

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>>7436349
The shots from last thread were using it. No idea how it looks on a CRT but in case you change resolutions (aside from 1080p) you have to manually edit GTUV50 under shaders to match yours, it's the shader that adds a little "color" blur, mimicking old screens somewhat.

Also I'm using "inv_status_height 0" under cam.cfg to hide the health and gem hud elements, but you can still use the blackjack to measure how visible you are.

I also use 96 FOV under cam_ext.cfg but that's optional.

>>7436393
I meant as in kinda creating the same shadows as a crt which will never do but Iam up for trying a reshade on thief.

Anyone know of any assassination FMs? I think it'd be interesting to script a Hitman style mission in Thief.

>>7436402
The first mission in Shadow of Doubt requires you to kill a guy. Same goes for the fifth in the same campaign.

>>7436423
Is the campaign as a whole good?

>>7436393
Okay I just tried it with both ambient lights and curves. Its pretty sweet.

>>7436425
It's a mixed bag. It's one of my favorites because of reasons but some people (understandably) hate it. The first mission sums it up: great atmosphere, classic Dark Project style, and imaginative gameplay conceits, but it's also somewhat linear, buggy (partially Newark's fault, partially sloppy building), difficult. Missions 2 and 4 are clearly the best while 5 is undeniably shit (even to weirdos like me who have a soft spot for it anyway). I suggest not playing on expert or else the loot goals will break your ass, and to dig up the DML fix for the campaign which patches some bugs.

>>7436454
Also, the assassination isn't anything like a Hitman mission, you just stab the fucker. I agree that a more in depth assassination could be cool, and would give purpose to some tools most people probably never touch.

>>7436460
Undercover is really proto hitman when you think about it, in fact early hitman games were not even that good.

Kind of a shame hitman series goes on while Thief much like tomb raider and deus ex got fucking ruined by squarefaggots.

>>7436470
Only the first Hitman game is bad, 2 and 3 are both great games. Hitman only still exists because they bought their independence along with the IP. LGS never got that option since they were in debt during the development of Thief 1 and 2.

>>7436454
That's pretty spot on.

>>7431860
Thief 1's longer ranged jump makes it the better choice for maps that involve lots of platforming, IMO.

>>7436780
I was actually discussing with a buddy not too long ago how annoying it is that Thief 2's jump distance was hobbled, glad to see someone else bring that up.

>>7436813
You can put it back in Thief 2 by modifying a line in cam_ext.cfg. I believe Compulsory Egress enables it.

>>7436839
new mantle is broken enough, don't want to break missions even more

I'm about to get back home from a trip and I'm so excited to play thief gold, thief 2, 2X, Fan missions, the dark mod and the upcoming The Black Parade. Got the first two games for 60 cents

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Behind Closed Doors is really comfy.

what are the fm's supposedly related to Black Parade?
I remember some anon saying Sound of a Burrick but I cant remember the other couple

>>7432634
Endless Rain, Sepulchre of the Sinistral and Calendra's Cistern are 3 of the earliest I played and I still remember them really well despite the hundreds of forgetable FM's I've played since, so I'd say those 3
Into the Odd is a more recent FM though and its probably my favorite

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bump

>>7438212
what the fuck is that

>>7437617
Off the top of my head: Lost Among the Forsaken, The Whistling of the Gears, Between These Dark Walls and Endless Rain

>>7438475
thanks man!
>Endless Rain
Nice I had no idea
how are these actually related?

>>7438594
Several plot threads are linked to the overarching story in The Black Parade apparently. The Suond of a Burrick in a Room has a direct reference to the protagonist of the campaign in an out-of-the-way letter.

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just replayed Hand of Glory. a very simple, yet very solid mission.

simple premise: just a normal break-and-enter mission. a hammer temple and a mansion, a buch of artifacts and a bunch of loot. no contrived donut steal conspiracy to unearth. no hidden cursed rape dungeon. just simple breaking-and-entering.
pretty open-ended, with at least three ways of breaking into the temple.
the architecture and overall art direction feels like something straight out of TDP's original campaign.
the map is nice and hand-drawn. it has an early modern feel to it, and only contains the rudimentary information a thief could gather while scouting the exterior. in this way, it's a map with an implicit "story" behind it, which is precisely what I prefer in my thief missions.
very nice patrol routes in general. you can safely hide beside doors and along walls in corridors, without any bullshit where passing guards bump into you. some guards have really long patrol routes that span many different areas.

in short: a very nice FM if you like TDP's campaign and want more of the same.

>>7438731
Agreed, it's one of my favorites. The same author made Project Hammer which is a comfy mansion mission in both versions.

>>7438292
You know how people tell you that if you keep practicing you can only become better? This guy is proof of the contrary.

>>7438940
based tuga

>>7438292
I noticed it was the thumbnail image for the Three Distinct Adventures mission page a while ago on that thiefguild website and saved it before it got fixed since it cracked me up. I figured it'd be gone by now but it's still up.

>>7438940
I tried playing Les Paolis a while ago and immediately felt really bad that I disgraced my hard drive by downloading that shit.

>>7439050
It's not even his worst. Try FTM Life and see for yourself. It's got to be the shittiest mission ever released so far and it's so bad it's not even a case of so bad it's good. It's just flat out horrible and runs like absolute dogshit to boot.

any upcoming FMs to get excited about, besides the Black Parade?

>>7439390
Broken Goddess but it's a very long ways away.

Anyone else find the Builder's Paradise to be a more tedious Soulforge? I ended up taking out Karras then found that I was expected to navigate the massive labyrinth of a map to turn on a bunch of light switches and do some other busywork to actually finish the mission so I just dropped it.

>>7439698
It's a bit too keyhunty and backtracky for my tastes.

>>7432997
Sound of a burrick in a room is one of the best pieces of level design I've ever seen. That map is just so beautiful and fun to explore

>>7439561
i hope it wont have anything similar to the tunnels in the second mission of Godbreaker. Nice atmosphere but the backtracking and the maze like design really made it a slog.

>>7439390
Stinkykitty's big campaign, Shadow of Doubt remake (somehow not abandoned after over 12 years), and for TDM there is apparently a new Volta mission upcoming.

>>7439698
As long as it's prettier than Soulforge it sounds fine by me
Is it?

>>7439991
The last mission in Godbreaker was definitely the best in my opinion. Impious Pilgrimage was cool but yeah navigation was a bit too obscure especially considering the map is fucking useless. Not even Bonehoard useless, just plain useless.

>>7440003
Much prettier.

>>7440070
good brushwork at the expense of gameplay and performance

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I just completed Soulforge for the first time. It just solidifies my belief that while TMA's highs are much higher between the two original games, its lows are also lower. The mission is plain exhausting.
Keeping with the thread's theme, and believing that I've earned my TM pass through completing the official missions, what are the best FMs for a beginner to try out? More like The Sword, The Life of Party, The Cathedral and less like Sabotage at Soulforge or Kidnap?

>>7440184
As a kid I didn't even bother and just watched the final cutscene. Then just went play some unreal or half life at the time.

Only finished soulforge like in 2013. I still thought at the time thief 2 was incredible but 1 had me much more interested in the final showdown. Deadly shadows as well had a nice end boss.


I can only imagine how amazing the hag fight would be if on dark engine or some other engine.

>>7440212
Deadly shadows has the worst finale of the three. You just go through all the empty hub maps placing down mcguffins at monuments and win the game while the big bad teleports to each one.

>>7440215
Yes but its a nice idea, I can "see" what they wanted to do there, and the hag is honestly kinda creepy.

Same with the keeper assassins but its stuck on an engine made to run on negative ram consoles.

>>7440184
If you liked Life of the Party you can't go wrong with Feast of Pilgrims, Endless Rain, Disorientation and The Sound of a Burrick in a Room.

>>7439698
Yes, sadly. The opening and first exploration of the map were really fun but then running around actually doing objectives was tedium. I was also disappointed that finding all the artefacts didn't actually give you a new ending, theres literally no reason to do it.

>>7440504
The thing that annoyed me the most about the mission was that unkillable mechanist zombie that never stops following you around.

>>7440529
he didn't really bother me, i feel like he stopped following me after the first floor, then the next time i saw him he died because of the secret mechanist gear weapon
The annoying part to me was having to run around and look for fucking keys just to get into most rooms. After spending 20 minutes running around looking for a key I missed somewhere I started getting real annoyed, and because its new AND an FM theres no real walkthrough.
Overall wasted potential, Into the Odd was the best of that contest, personally.

>>7440557
Into the Odd is on a league of its own.

>>7440592
for sure, I wish more FMs were that level of quality and nailed that atmosphere of delving somewhere you're not meant to be
I only played it like a month ago and I think its honestly my favorite FM

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>>7439698
>>7440504
>>7440529
>>7440557
Firemage has this issue consistently where he struggles with making actually fun objectives or gameplay. His best by far is Whistling of the Gears but even that is marred by the tedious talisman collectathon that kicks off with a pretty vague teleportation sequence, and if you don't understand what to do immediately afterwards you'll waste a lot of time and get annoyed.

I think he has these really cool ideas of things he wants to do and how to achieve them with the engine but when you actually sit down to play the mission built around them most of the time they're not very fun and get tiresome or irritating. His brushwork is impeccable and he can really set the mood well but it's a struggle to actually play his shit sometimes.

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Anyone tried out reshade?

>>7441282
Paradise is the only mission by him that I've played but I can see it. The sad thing was that the atmosphere in the beginning of Paradise was so good, and the structure of the level was nice but fuck me was it unfun to play after a while. I got lost for about an hour because I was certain that walking into Karras's throne room or whatever (the area you get locked in an all the turrets and children of Karras start attacking you) was a trap. Very unclear you're meant to go there to progress

>>7441282
speaking of, where the other missions in that contest worth playing? I only had time for the top 3 when I played them but if some of the others are worth checking out I'll be sure to after I'm done going through this 1mil units contest

>>7441587
My Favorite Year, Troubling Transitions, Fierce Competition and Where the Unknown Lurks are good missions you should check out. The rest is sort of forgettable.

>>7441282
>I think he has these really cool ideas of things he wants to do and how to achieve them with the engine but when you actually sit down to play the mission built around them most of the time they're not very fun and get tiresome or irritating. His brushwork is impeccable and he can really set the mood well but it's a struggle to actually play his shit sometimes.
This is an issue that can also be found in general with fan missions. Not all of them have this problem thankfully, but it's almost like some authors are really afraid their missions aren't long enough so they add tons of padding and busywork to compensate. Some of the missions from the mid 2000s in particular are really egregious.

guys why does this engine look so freaking good in low light compared to say goldsrc? it's like it's properly tonemapped or something

>>7441858
Never understood why Rocksbourg part 3 gets hyped up so much when its a collectathon. DrK's other missions are all much better.

>>7441879
You guessed it right.

>>7442935
I liked mission 2 because I have a weak spot for deusexvanias

>>7442943
I liked it as well but was disappointed it showed nothing of the zombie hordes in the briefing.

>>7442935
I would argue that Rocksbourg 3 unlike a lot of the others never overstays its welcome and 75% of the items you can collect are optional. The layout is also really well made so traversing the level isn't boring or annoying.

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Burrick Bump

Give me some comfy missions to play in between the stressful horror ones.

>>7443841
Ack! There's a Zombie in the Basement
A Midsummer Night's Heist
Recipe for Turmoil
Fierce Competition
Heist Society
Pretty much any mission by Christine (quality varies from shit to alright)
All For a Night's Sleep

>>7443974
Haven't played some of these, thank you.

>>7443841
most of the comfiest missions I know also have horror elements. I'll try to list some "pure" comfy missions:
>Hand of Glory
>Shadow Play
>Lord Beilman's Estate
>Lampfire Hills

>>7444350
These blue shadows are ugly as fuck.

>>7432145
Never. Finding a way to get out of bounds is one of my favorite things to do in any game. Don't really mind if I break the intended progression or sneaking challenge in order to do that.

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I'm surprised there haven't been any efforts to make a (fan made) Thief 2 Gold. What old missions would you have liked to see touched up and tweaked, and what would be your pitch ideas for the new missions?

>>7445042
There have been and they all failed.

>>7442937
>properly tonemapped
is this dark engine, new dark or reshaded new dark that we're talking about here?
anywhere i can get info about tonemapping in this engine?

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The Scarlet Cascabel is some spooky shit

>>7446443
Depends. Someone like klatremus has good commentary. As long as you allow room to breathe with moments of silence and don't digress too much I think that's fine.

>>7445094
No idea anon, there is a opendark project go ask.

But it was one of the aspects they really focused when making the engine in the 90s, since there was no lighting like today. The way brightness works on the textures is smooth.

why do so many T2 fan missions have a purplish-greenish tint in their lighting? do authors really think that shit looks good?

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>>7431703
Any good FMs that have Stephen Russell voice impersonations in them? Just reinstalled Thief 2 after a long while and played through A Better Tomorrow and part of the Black Frog campaign. I thought it was cool how both FMs had a voice actor for Garrett doing an impression of Russell's voice, I'd like to know if there are some other FMs that do this thing because I liked it here

>>7436470
>in fact early hitman games were not even that good
>implying that Codename 47, Silent Assassin, and Contracts arent stealth-action kino

>>7446187
desu I wasn't a big fan of that one.

it perfectly embodies contemporary thief 2 FM design philosophy, and everything I hate about it. it follows the overdone "mundane living area followed by spooky hidden dungeon" formula.
the design of the "mundane" part of the hotel is overly intricate and cluttered with unusable objects. compare this with classic thief, in which most of the more sparsely placed items can be interacted with.
the winter wing is only designed to be a spooky dungeon, and doesn't make sense as an actual building in which people once lived. part of it feels completely on-rails. interestingly, there are no secrets in this area, meaning the author literally just intended for you to rush through it once.
in addition to that, there's the horrible dim lighting. I'm pretty confident this shit can actually fuck your eyesight if you play it for extended time periods.
sometimes I feel like authors designed their missions with a higher-than-default gamma in mind, or perhaps their own monitor's calibration is fucked up.

in short: I was disappointed that the winner of a contest oriented towards the classic T1 experience was such a typical "modern T2 mission". I guess that's that's the kind of mission ttlg has grown to like

>>7446795
A Midsummer Night's Heist has a bang on Garrett impression.

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I managed to get a 1999 cover disk image working on Win7 and installed the demo of Thief. I'm trying to play in software mode but I'm just getting a black screen that hangs. I've tried 95 and 98 compatibility modes.

>>7446814
I wouldn't call that contemporary Thief 2 FM design, The Scarlet Cascabel uses tropes that were used as fat back as the 7th Crystal and Rowena's Curse. These sort of missions kinda disappeared for a while. That being said I agree that it shouldn't have won the contest, it was also a buggy mess.

>>7446736
you mean the 16 bit lighting?

>>7446814
I hate when FMs have tons of normally frobbable objects scattered around rooms like scrolls and loose books.

>>7447047
Do you really want to read all of these? That's a fairly weird thing to be mad about.

>>7447561
It means finding actual readables means I have to scan every one and hope it highlights.

>>7447561
for some reason, it has become a common design trope to have hundreds of non-interactive items cluttering every room. the thing is, you don't need to design your missions that way. LGS sure didn't

>>7446880
I would just try it on a VM.

>>7447769
>>7447593
That genuinely doesn't bother me honestly.

>>7447846
Then I need to hunt down a copy of Windows 98 somehow. Isn't it a nightmare to get all sorts of drivers for old operating systems these days?

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So why does everyone say Garrett's a terrible swordsman who can't even fight common guards one on one? By the end of the Dark Project, I was pretty easily killing hammer haunts in duels on expert without taking damage, so long as I had room to maneuver. Garrett is extremely good at killing shit, even without stealth. If anything, I think his no-kill rule is more for the benefit of the people he's robbing from then for his own sake.

>>7448345
>So why does everyone say Garrett's a terrible swordsman who can't even fight common guards one on one?
People who are bad at the game and don't understand how the blocking works. Not sure if it's placebo, but I've always had the impression that swordfighting in Thief 2 is considerably harder than Gold due to how rapidly the enemy can keep swinging to make fighting enemies one on one less appealing.

>>7448345
Compared to the protagonists of some other stealth games (even those that took after Thief), Garrett's not the most proficient fighter around.
In Thief, sword fighting mechanics are certainly not in the spotlight, and most players will avoid fights, which means they'll never learn the game's fencing.
>Garrett is extremely good at killing shit, even without stealth
The case may also be that you as a player are good at killing shit.
This is gonna be a clunky comparison, but I feel it kinda fits: there are dozens of people at this point who have played through Dark Souls using only a broken sword, but you don't see people touting it as the best weapon in the game. Those players are just good enough to be successful with it.

>>7448345
Mostly comes down to player skill and game design. High level players never get caught, but if they're feeling like dicking around, I've seen them take out whole patrols of guards without much hassle, for instance, compared to noobs who can't even hit servants reliably.

Gameplay wise, you're heavily encouraged not to fight and to run away in most cases by the game, which means that players never develop combat skills, which means they think Garrett is clumsy and untrained when in actuality, he's medieval batman. Not helped is that there are plenty of articles and posts about how wimpy Garrett is, ignoring how athletic and strong the man actually is (can hold a bow forever, can vault over walls with all his equipment and loot on him, can easily carry bodies, etc.)

Lore wise, Garrett was the most promising of the Keeper enforcer novices, which means that combat skills were a must. He can, for instance, easily draw blood on fully armored opponents (some of them in plate), meaning that he must be very skilled to direct blows towards weak points in their armor.

But at the end of the day though, fighting is just not how the game is meant to be played. Personally, I find fighting people and creatures to be more easy than stealthing past them in many cases, and stealth mostly because it is more rewarding and feels better.

>>7448364
Thief 2 had a lot more corridors and hallways if I remember correctly. Garrett fights best when he can circle around his opponents and hit them in the side or back. Hell, you can knock guards out this way if you're skilled enough.

>>7448452
I meant more like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcaT7DfueC4

>you can bash doors in thief
https://youtu.be/b5vnl90zB74?t=257
i never knew this

>>7448458
i wish i could be this passionate about manual labor

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>>7448345
I actually like the later combat missions in DP. It felt good to just cut loose and kill shit left and right after being fettered the whole game. Extremely satisfying to finally be able to use those broadheads, mines, fire arrows, and sword I never touched before.

>>7448458
>Engineer gameplay

slow burning horror/paranormal or suspense missions? i am trying to find surreal level design like in american mcgee's alice

>>7436393
hey how do you disable texture dithering but not on the lights? i think thats the best of both worlds.

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>>7444380
Halved the strength
Hopefully it's not as distracting now

>>7448098
dude there is a debugged-for modern win Build of the demo
>ttlg dot com slash forums slash showthread dot php questionmark t=141747
i have not tried it

>>7448421
>Not helped is that there are plenty of articles and posts about how wimpy Garrett is,

>He then went on to clarify that "not very good" means the melee combat system is very simple and, by extension, very boring. The developers have also indicated in the past that Garrett will continue to be weaker than a kitten when facing enemies head on and that coming up directly against even an armed commoner or lone guard is more or less a death sentence. In essence, don't expect an "Assault" style of gameplay like that of Splinter Cell: Blacklist, because the Thief reboot will continue to be all about stealth.

>This should be taken as a positive sign by the fans. After all, Garrett is a burglar rather than an assassin and the reboot, like the games before it, will offer the option of an entirely non-lethal approach. Clumsily leaving the guards bleeding out on the floor isn't nearly as satisfying as imagining how embarrassed they'll be when it's discovered that someone got in and thoroughly fleeced the place without them even noticing.

I love perceptions about Garrett's abilities. It informs me so much about the writer's skill levels when it comes to Thief.

>>7449345
People always forget that Garrett is as much an adventurer as he is a thief.

>>7449345
>Constantine's Mansion Redux on Expert
>6 Monkes + 1 mantis in dining room
>take 1 monkey out with broadhead
>2 with a gas mine
>2 others with a flash + blackjack
>easily chase off last in swordfight
>close in on bug beast and kill it with sword
>shoot the fleeing monkey in back with arrow
>all within less than 12 seconds

Like I'm not the best player, but Garrett is a beast if I use him right.

>>7448980
That is basically the polar opposite of what I'm looking for. It has all the modern enhancements and more, including dousable candles. I need the version that still has the software rendering support.

>>7446736
16-bit lightmaps and colored lighting don't mesh well together. On bright textures you can see some pretty intense banding with weird color gradients. In addition, most people just don't know how to use colored lighting properly.

What is the brightest lit mission ever made? Darkness is the point of the game sure but I just wonder what happens in the engine with a lot of light.. I mean this is quite bright >>7431964 and it looks great. But can the engine go even brighter?

>>7449569
Oh, thanks for pointing that out it doesn't have that because I was just about to wade into Thief with this. Instead it can get fuct if doesn't have software mode. I HATE early D3D moosh.
Haha i was just on my way out to but a damn crt

>>7449569
>>7449757
but uh, i know there are about 3 versions of the thief 1 demo that were out in the 90s which you can just download at like 100MB and try.
In the past I got one of them to mostly work with compatibility mode but I don't know if i was doing software mode

>>7449773
Well, I haven't played in software mode probably since 1999 when I got my first 3d acceleration card. I remember thinking even back then how it was a bit lame that Thief 2 didn't come with software rendering support at all. I mean sure, the game didn't even run properly on our 333MHz pentium with 3d acceleration, but I never thought the game looked that much different from the first one to justify there not being the option for software mode.

>>7449792
>Thief 2 didn't come with software rendering support at all.
damn that sucks. i hate smooth but reading into this there's many options in cam_ext.cfg that comes in that moderned-up demo, including turning off texture filtering.
people have complained that doing so makes the lighting 'blocky' though, so not quite getting good software look back. and also probably color depth is different.
For me its worth playing with though so i'll see if i can get something nice because software mode thief is one of the most beautiful things i've seen. Hardware looks "eh okay"

>>7449820
>people have complained that doing so makes the lighting 'blocky' though
This is only a problem if you use a version of NewDark older than 1.26.

>>7449845
we've been talking about demos. I just played one that has some version of newdark applied it seems but presumably applying new version to a demo is another story.
I take back recommending it anyway I can't get the damn tex filter to turn off and some creep has stuck one or two (just one or two why) disgusting "HD-textures" into the thing, Yuck

>>7449883
If that certain creep is voodoo47 then I'm not surprised in the slightest.

>>7449918
Yeah, that doofus forces different textures and models on the Thief2 Lost Alpha Demo & TDP unified Demo IIRC. You have to delete a folder to erase all that stuff, although I don't remember which one.

>>7449945
Not only that but he bundles TFix with a bunch of shit that is enabled by default and fucks with mission authors who have to go out of their way to remove that crap.

>>7449951
he's on a one-man crusade to """fix""" T1 and restore it to what LGS """really""" intended.

coloured lights? they were totally part of LGS' real vision when they made T1, just trust me bro.
then there's all the random fences he puts up everywhere to prevent newdark mantling. I could understand if he added invisible walls, because that's what those unmantlable walls essentially were. it looks awful with all those fences though, and don't get me started on the keeper library

Are the two Thief 1 downloads from the retro fps thread both from GOG?

>>7449984
Yeah that's why Lite should be used instead, even if it does come with a few DML files with a few dubious "fixes".

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>>7448345
I know right?

Its the pionner stealth game effect. As a kid, fuck evne as a teen it fucking terrified me.

I wish the combat was way deadlier for Garrett.


In Thief is one of my all time favourites but I wish I could have seen the dark camelot project.

Its ambitions today much less in the late 90s. It seems like they were basically making a very focused Bethesda type game with Warrior, Thief and Mage. We got the rogue mechanics in the end. Instead of sandbox a more tight level design like semi sandbox deus ex.

No wonder Dark messiah is so loved as well the dna is there.

>>7450956
It would have been another jack of some trades when the game feels like it, master of none just like Dark Messiah.

>>7448421
>about how wimpy Garrett is

He is kinda wimpy on expert.

>>7449369
This Garrett is a at least a level 15 rogue. D6d so to speak.

I think /tg/ back in its golden days made him a sheet.

>>7450961
Maybe. Or Arx Fatalis. Hell even Beth games.

I know I did a Garret run on Oblivion and Skyrim.

Would still love to see it. Its a fascinating twist on camelot legends.
I can only imagine if the other archetypes were as developed as Thief it would have ben one hell of a game.

>>7450962
>He is kinda wimpy on expert.
Only if you let them hit you.

Garrett isn't wimpy with a sword. Everyone else is just better than him. They can initiate attacks immediately after one hit connects or gets blocked. A hammer haunt can slash four times in a single second if you're unlucky.

>>7450624
I can't find anything about this, where is it?

>>7451521
I sorta want to return TDP to its roots really.

Next install I do its tfixlite and that fix for the lost city.

>>7451652
Curiously even if I want TDP as vanilla as possible. I have no problem with playing Thief 2 with necroage and texture filtering.

Kinda weird.

>>7449792
Software rendering is shit and shouldn't be supported and Thief 2 is a considerable graphical upgrade from TDP. The characters alone are probably double the poly count at least.

>>7451679
Yeah, I have nothing against purist I really dont. But Thief is one of those games whose real focus is the sound, as long as textures dont clash I am okay with some upgrades. Fuck I would not even mind some clean-ups to vanilla missions or some redesigns for more brushes and detail.

>>7451509
He relies on his mobility and footwork in a fight. Sure, taking on enemies head on is usually a bad idea unless you're just that shit hot, but maneuver around to their sides and they're super easy to destroy.

>>7451679
I know I know, I just think there was a certain weird charm in the aliased sprites, the low color depth, the banding lighting and pitch black darkness. It would be nice to play Thief 1 again in with those visuals.

>>7451690
I said this heresy here>>7451682


But I agree. There should be a version ready to play of Thief 1 like that.

>>7451682
I disagree but don't care enough about how you enjoy your game to argue over Thief's aesthetics.

>>7451696
Its out of love I say that, I like vanilla Thief 1 and 2. But some FM missions are so beautiful from a visual side that I would have loved LGS had the same time to have the same map autism.

>>7451702
Are you talking about FMs made after the unofficial engine update or before? Because there really were some pretty strict limitations on brush geometry before the Dreamcast devkit source code was found and the fan patch was made. It wasn't just that two decades ago computers didn't have the power to run more complex levels. It was the engine itself that had limits.

>>7449945
> You have to delete a folder to erase all that stuff, although I don't remember which one.
'Updates'

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>>7440289
>Feast of Pilgrims
I checked it out, and sadly, I'm kinda disappointed. The map is full of fake doors that look like real doors at a distance, and a bunch of static meshes that look like clutter items (vases, crates) that can't be interacted with.
I see what they were going for - you can't expect a large city area to be populated with complete, fully realized buildings when the player is supposed to travel across roofs and top floors at most - but the way it's set up takes away from the believability of the environment. Thief is an immersive sim after all, and when I constantly stumble upon stuff that (having played the base game) I expected to be interactive, but it turns out to be set dressing - my immersion completely shatters. Sadly, it reminds me of Potemkin villages of some modern shooters.
Running into a fake door that looks just like the door you entered through in every other building just never stops being jarring.

>>7452230
The amount of buildings you can enter in Feast of Pilgrims is insane for the map size whereas Life of the Part has only a handful at best along with Angelwatch being a barebones shell of a map. What you're asking for is ridiculous and would murder the performance of a map that already pushes way past the limit of what the original Thief 2 engine could handle.

>>7452230
This is just how these missions are. Not only is it impossible technically to do that but it's not something you want in gameplay either. Imagine the absolute tedium if every single apartment was fully modeled in missions so large.

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has anyone here played the thief 2 FM 'Lord Alan's Factory'?
it's really a one-of-a-kind mission.

it takes place in an alternative thief timeline in which petroleum refinement was discovered, and development exploded as a result. it has a very futuristic feel to it.
you explore an insanely huge oil rig, trying to stop a pagan plot. navigation through the huge map is very central element, and requires you to learn the IDs for various sections, machines etc.

I found it to be a great mission. it has really neat custom music, enemies, etc. the art direction is spot on. there's tons of stuff to do

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Which do you guys prefer more, Thief 1's medieval/baroque/steampunk aesthetic, Thief 2's Classicist/Victorian look (while still retaining medieval/steampunk cues), or Thief 3 which goes hardest for the medieval look and has the fewest nonmedieval/steampunk elements.

>>7452546
Thief 1, no contest.

>>7452546
I prefer T1's style without a doubt. T2's leap into the 19th century broke my suspension of disbelief

I'm also in love with T1's colour scheme

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>>7452546
T2 had my favorite rendition of the City and noble manors, but T1's supernatural and surreal levels had an amazing vibe to them that's missed in T2. T3's art direction in comparison is just boring.

>>7452575
for me, the appeal of T1's supernatural elements is intimately tied to the rendition of the city.

T1's city is stratigraphically complex, featuring many layers of buildings of different ages. public spaces are rare. buildings have been allowed to spill over into the streets, to the point where many streets are buried beneath underpasses.
I'm sure the underpasses were initially added because of technical constraints, but even so, they helped define the city.
the city as seen in T1 is a perfect place to hide mysteries, curses etc. examples of such hidden things in the original game are the sealed section, the lost city and bonehoard.

the aspects of T1's city that I love have been captured perfectly by schlock in his fan missions.

>>7452546
Despite being far more crude looking, I prefer the aesthetics of 1 to the elegance of 2, mostly because 1's aesthetics are a visual metaphor to the main conflict of the story.

1's setting is based on the medieval era, a period associated with ruralism, mysticism, isolation from the greater world, and limited urbanism. The City also has trappings of the early industrial revolution, what with the Hammers and all, which is associated with basically the opposite of above. The main conflict of nature vs civilization is ever present in the visual design of the city, and the most impressive thing about it is that it never feels jarring or out of place. I wouldn't call the first Thief game steampunk since the tech there was largely very down-to-earth and even crude, which helped it mesh with the world in a believable way.

2, by contrast, leans heavily into a Victorian aesthetic which in my opinion has the effect of weakening the story. The main theme of 2 is that embracing progress and technology too much leads to evil, as epitomized by the Mechanists. There is a missed opportunity in having their tech feel out of place within the setting to emphasize how it's too much too fast. To explain my point, consider Angelwatch; the transition from a fairly standard European-style city to art-deco is instant and jarring, it feels unnatural to me and that is a perfect description of the Mechanists. It illustrates that the Mechanists want to advance technology so fast that it outpaces the rest of the City perfectly, I just wish the rest of the game had that feel.

Since the setting resembles the Victorian-era, which is where most steampunk is based, seeing one of Karras' Children running about feels somewhat normal as it does match the surroundings to an extent. Now if it was like the first game where we were running around medieval manors and castles, the gaudy golden children would stand out a lot more, giving the same feeling Angelwatch gave but over the whole game.

>>7431964
Seeing Thief in the day trips me out.

>>7452618
The City in 2 is far too clean, especially when you consider it's supposed to take place during the boom of the industrial revolution where everything should be soot-caked with fumes everywhere.

>>7454264
the City in 2 is too comfy with its bright summer nights and warm lighting colors. Thief 1 feels colder and darker with its pitch black cloudless skies and the fact that all of the lighting is monochrome

>>7452546
I would say mostly 1 very prog rock medieval cover album , with a little bit of 2 here and there.

Wish there were more classical elements like in the cutscenes you can gleam off.

>>7452546
Both are good, Thief 3's is the worst because every level is Fisher Price scaled because their shitty Invisible War engine couldn't handle anything larger.

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>>7448345
>I think his no-kill rule is more for the benefit of the people he's robbing from then for his own sake.
Yeah, I get this feeling too. Canon Garrett in my mind is Expert mode played by a skilled player. It'd be so easy for him to kill, even in head on confrontations, but he has "standards." Whenever he takes the gloves off though, such as the last quarter of the Dark Project or Soulforge, he can leave a trail of death and destruction behind.

Thief is perfectly playable on controller right?
Am I right in saying the only input intensive thing in the game is aiming the bow?
There's momentum on the movement too so steams' analogue emulation should work as well.

>>7455162

Why the fuck would you want to play it on a gamepad?

>>7455185
Why not?

>>7455216
Well I guess it makes the game more tense and difficult like playing resident evil on a gamepad.

Good luck I guess.

>>7455223
Why would it be more tense or difficult?

>>7455230

Okay Ill bite.

Because its harder hence the resident evil mention. Its always going to make looking around slower or less accurate.

You have way less control for sword fights or lighting fast rope arrow shots or something.

Hence it will make the game harder. re2remake is way more easy on mouse than gamepad.

>>7455162
>Thief is perfectly playable on controller right?
Let's see... a gamepad has 16 buttons and two analog sticks. Thief has about 70 keys if you ignore every individual item shortcut and only use scroll item functions. So no, Thief is not perfectly playable with a controller. You'd have to bind an average of four functions in one input.

>7455242
CORRECTION: I suspected that would be wrong. The ini includes all redundant binds as well. In total Thief can be played with 20 buttons.

All necessary binds:
>clear_weapon
>leanright
>use_item
>esc sim_menu
>map (also found in menu)
>objectives (also found in menu)
>block (Combat only)
>zoomout (Thief 2 only)
>zoomin (Thief 2 only)
>crouch
>prev_weapon
>next_weapon
>use_weapon
>prev_item
>next_item
>leanleft
>drop_item
>creepon
>jump
>leanforward

Maybe you could also unbind creepon by having an analog input threshold on movement where half tilt and under has the shift modifier and over half tilt disengages it.

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>>7455242
>>7455269
Steam input, so it's likely not an issue
>>7455239
It's not bait, my hands are fucked from afps and so I generally opt to play singleplayer games chilling on the couch, if possible. So please save your passive aggressive elitism anon. Look after your hands too.
I'm only asking what there is in the game that's input intensive. Sacrificing faster aiming is something i'm happy to deal with. Is sword fighting a deal breaker do you reckon?
>>7455286
Thanks anon, this is very helpful. Yeah creepon should be easy to deal with, it's just slow walk right?
There's a guy doing it here but I simply don't know enough about the game to judge it. He says the only thing he does is save/load with keyboard but I can macro that no bother.
https://youtu.be/TvWtQ-V_Lxc
I appreciate the help anons

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>>7455286
>no binds for the lockpicks
>no binds for the compass

>>7455330

I am not being passive aggressive.

I believe you hence why I thought it was weird why you asked. Of course it will be harder.

>>7455162
No. Either play it as intended or not at all.

>>7455351
He can play it with a gamepad. But as I said it will be harder.

But with gamepad he can also take it slower than mouse and keyboard.

>>7455357
I'm sure you can play Thief on a DDR mat if you wanted, doesn't make it any less retarded

>>7455373
Its not that retarded. He can take it slower. Although I think a more veteran player might appreciate the challenge.

For a new player it might be too much. Unless playing on normal.

>>7455373
>retarded
explain

>>7455331
Yeah but what can you do? There are dozens of equipment shortcuts and only so many buttons. At least Thief isn't TIE Fighter where you actually do need to learn and use all 85 or so buttons with no room for contextualization.

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Thoughts on Turning of the Leaves? I think it's competent but would have rather had it be more Thief-y than be full of custom models and collectable flowers.

>>7455530
I thought it was fairly disappointing, the lack of vertical space really hurts the mission overall especially in the thieves' hideout. Almost everything is one dimensional and the patrols aren't especially riveting. Not sure why TTLG loves it so much frankly.

>>7455540
>Not sure why TTLG loves it so much frankly.
Mappers seem to care more about elaborate scripts and custom content than well designed maps.

>>7455547
Not all of them, but TTLG users seem to indeed prefer these kinds of missions.

>>7455568
To be fair to nicked, its not like all of his missions are gimmicky.

>>7455601
A lot of his recent ones have massive shopping lists too, like Behind Closed Doors or Duncan Malveine. There is definitely an audience for that which is fine, but it's not really my thing. I wasn't too bothered by that in Turning of the Leaves, again my disappointment comes from the fact that it's just not a particularly interesting mission design-wise. There are other missions in this contest that use space far, far more efficiently than this one.

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>>7455626
>There are other missions in this contest that use space far, far more efficiently than this one.
Alcazar does this so well.
https://imgur.com/a/rfjFSpN

>>7455635
Yeah. I would say Cinder Notes, Recipe for Turmoil and A Midsummer Night's Heist also use space brilliantly, the latter in particular feels a lot bigger than it really is.

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I just killed the hidden invisible keeper in Disorientation.

I slashed in the general direction his footsteps were coming from, got a few hits in and eventually heard him drop on the floor.
it doesn't seem like I can pick up his body, though

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>>7454441
>the City in 2 is too comfy with its bright summer nights and warm lighting colors.

I feel like they overcorrected with 3.

>>7455792
I love this area.

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>playing Thief Gold for the first time
>get to the Haunted Cathedral
>mfw the giant spiders
>mfw the fucking bugmen

this game is too scary bros. I really enjoy the gameplay and atmosphere, but it's too much for me. I just wanted to rob houses.

>>7456794
stop being a coward

>>7456794
Man up you taffer.

>>7431710
At this point why aren't you just making for The Dark Mod.

>>7457596
Because they're different games with different mechanics perhaps?

>>7457596
Probably because the Dark Mod has some seriously clunky physics and movement.

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I know this is a few years early, but what kind of anniversary artwork should I make for Deadly Shadows in 2024? I made pixel art of Garrett stealing The Eye from Constantine for TDP and the gear animation for TMA. What would be iconic for TDS? Something related to the Keepers? Cradle? Moira?

>>7458297
Oh damn. I saw your gear animation and thought it looked awesome. Didn't see the eye stealing one though, you have it on hand by chance? I can't really recommend anything for TDS. Was never able to get over the movement.

>>7431703
>fan missions
fucking cringe

>>7458297
The most memorable part of TDS for me is one of the first missions with the twisted spires.

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>>7458374
Here. Also, I swear I didn't intentionally make the tree roots look lewd

>>7458378
>cringe
Cringe.

>>7458416
Looks pretty sick dude.

Do you do commissions for FMs?

>>7458707
That's retarded, just learn to make your own maps.

>>7458712
No, fella, I mean Plutonia and his art.

>>7458707
What kind of commissions? Lowpoly 3d for meshes? 2d art? 3d animations? Daniel Thron -esque After Effects cutscenes?

>>7456794
Lmao that was the part where I quit like 3 years ago too.
kek.

Got back into it again and I'm not scared of the faggy spiders anymore. Just one shot them in the dark with an arrow or fight them head on. Don't get spooked by the fact they jump they're retarded and wont hit you. The baby spiders are more annoying honestly since you cant hit the fuckers with a sword unless you crouch at the perfect time. Just shoot em.

>>7458416
Sick

the last level of TDP i imagine exactly like a weird surreal 70 prog rock animation clip with a rogue robbing fucking satan.

Its very promethean like.

>>7458830
You got a page with all the Thief pixel art?

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>>7459043
I probably should set up something that has all of it compiled

>>7459062
DA, Twitter, TTLG, somewhere.

>>7458297
>deadly shadows
Probably none.

what's the opinion on t2fix? I'm not a purist just wondering if anything is particularly gaudy/ill-conceived?

>>7459517
Don't install texture overhauls, they look like shit 100% of the time.

>>7459517
Thief Enhancement Pack that comes with it is bad.

>>7459517
Its fine for thief 1 as well, its light stuff. but people will tell you otherwise.

Try both.

I particularly like necroage for both 1 and 2. Its a bit darker but retains the feel of vanilla.

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>>7459673
no

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Was it kino?

>>7460138
No. The 3d cutscenes were badly animated even at the time and failed to apply the series' art style. They would have been much better if they used silhouettes.

>>7460138
>that gay tatoo
>those gay braids
>that absolute lack of atmosphere in the cutscene
Why do fan projects always seem like wish fulfilment? not even the good kind where the wish is wanting more, some faggy kind where they are the protag, or their waifu is the protag, or they dunk on their ideological enemies and everyone claps.

What happened to Lord Bafford's Scepter? Cutty died did Garret just sell it? I think they should have considered bringing Lord Bafford back as a secondary antagonist out of left field and the Scepter should have been a relic of another ancient god.

>>7460842
Zaya isn't a bad protagonist. They deliberately made her different from Garrett. The one thing that the modders didn't realize was the importance of not showing things. So they struggled to bring a lot of detail on screen with the cutscenes, which not only conflicts with the series' art style but also reveals all the shortcomings of the tech.

>>7460924
>Zaya isn't a bad protagonis
Watching gameplay makes me thing otherwise.

>>7460990
She's naïve and gullible and the campaign attempts to, albeit in a somewhat hamfisted way, depict her being groomed by someone who knows how to exploit her weaknesses. She prevails despite her flaws and learns from it. How is that a bad protagonist? Garrett's flaws also make him a better protagonist. His greed and ego blinded him to treachery and his stubborn denial laid the groundwork for many parts of the story. The only part of the "gameplay" that makes Zaya bad is that she uses a hammer instead of a blackjack like a moron

>>7461058
Well fuck you too, now I'm going to have to play the campaign just to detail why she's cringe beyond her visual design which is pretty high up their on the cringe factor.

>>7461087
>>7461058
>wealthy
>from a foreign land
>cringe af tattoos
>owns a ship for some reason
>wealthy enough to own a ship but doesn't bother to take any bodyguards with them even though the game is called thief
>cousin gets killed for seemingly no reason
>goes into the scariest fucking mansion she can find to hide out
>doesn't cower in a corner but keeps exploring an increasingly bizarre mansion
>meets an old man living in a cave and rape sensors don't go off
>decides to follow a completely convoluted plot for revenge instead of using her vast wealth to have a bunch of street thugs assassinated
>agrees to become a thief for some fuckin reason and becomes a skilled one in no time flat literally trusting an old man who has given her no reason whatsoever to trust him
>is so fucking elite that she has already ended a human life
>that's probably where she got that ultra cringe tattoo from
This is actually going beyond cringe and I'm having a laugh at how retarded this shit is, like do motivations and realistic goals just not apply to whoever wrote this, the narrative isn't even consistent, events just happen one after another. You can't even begin to compare this to Thief, Garret clearly had an aptitude and history for thievery and his motivation is not dying of starvation, he's good enough to get a keepers college scolarship, he leaves because he's always been alone and now has the skills to enrich himself, in Thief 1 he's clearly been a professional burglar for a while, he has a network of informants, suppliers and fences at his side and he even has a reputation, but his cynical attitude makes it sound like thievery has become his daily grind, he even does it out of necessity, like he can't quit his night job.
I could honestly pick this apart for days, and I'm on the first mission.

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>>7461123
I find it funny that not even a series like Thief can escape cringy mary sue fanfiction.

Is the gameplay even good?

>>7461150
>>7461123
>>7461087
Yes, we all know T2X's story is fucking retarded. T2's story is also pretty retarded when you think about it. This isn't why people praise them. T2X is despite is shortcomings a pleasing campaign with good to great levels. It's a project with a scope that hasn't been matched yet in the Thief fandom.

>>7461123
I always assumed that Zaya's stealth proficiency was related to the artifacts that her master gave her. Because when you start the game, all shadows hide you equally poorly. But suddenly after she's taught to "walk among the shadows" -she can become invisible in low light. Garrett doesn't just gain the power of stealth. He has it and is taught to use it effectively. Zaya literally doesn't have it and is given it. So it never really felt to me that she just learns things much more quickly than Garrett. It feels like there's some magical aid.

>>7461182
Unless it's what the authors intended and explicitly said, you can take your musings to a fanfiction site

>>7461190
You do realize you're talking about a series in which the vast majority of basic lore things are left unexplained on purpose, right? Everything has speculative elements to it. Though I suppose that in occam's razor, writer incompetence resulting in a plot hole is slightly simpler than a magician applying magic more than is being explicitly demonstrated.

>>7461190
That is literally what happens in the game.

>>7461150
Is the smiling uncomfortable because the haunt is uncomfortable or is it because the haunt is smiling at me?

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>>7461615
Look at his expression.

>>7461641
He doesn't have any muscles to make an expression with.

>>7461738
The original image with the three haunts still manages to have all three have different expression. I don't have it on hand. I just remember that it has one who's enthusiastically distracted by something interesting off-screen, another one who's back-tilt laughing his ass off, and the one in the middle awkwardly forcing a laugh

>>7461171
>T2's story is also pretty retarded when you think about it. This isn't why people praise them.
T2's story might not be as good as TDP but it is still good. Much better than all the shenanigans in Deadly Shadows or any other stealth game that's for sure.