What led to their demise?
>>7288695Too much autonomy between the various branches. Nintendo despotic authoritarian rule was superior.
A jew called Bernie who offered no refunds.
>>7288695Stupid business decisions and badly-designed hardware.
>>7288695they got too cocky
>>7288695Just watch a gaming historian video bro. But to summarize, the 32x, Saturn surprise launch in the USA, Bernie Stolar killing the Saturn early, chip shortages that couldn't keep up with Dremcast demand. What I have said is not everything, and is a very, very short and not all inclusive summary, but those are the highlights, or, umm, "lowlights" I suppose you could call them, lol. It's a shame they killed the Saturn early too. I love Nintendo, but I have discovered the Saturn as an adult collector, and I think it would have been my favorite console back ion the day if I owned one, but unfortunately for it, nostalgia, whether you admit it or not, plays a key part in determining your favorite platforms.
The 32X and Saturn, and constant tensions between the US and Japanese divisions. On top of that, pic related being very successful consoles that demolished the competition, being the final nails in the coffin
>>7289028It's funny that Sony only decided to enter the video game market because Nintendo tried to screw them over. Both parties had a deal for a new console and Sony was supposed to build a CD drive for the console, but Nintendo decided to scrap the idea of using CDs and made a different deal with another party at the last second, which ended with the creation of the Nintendo 64. They didn't even notify Sony about anything, who were already working on the drive, this made Sony pissed and decide to launch their own console with the hardware they were already developing, and thus the ps1 came to existence.Nintendo never again recovered their dominant spot in the console gaming industry.
>>7289161>Never againI wouldn't say that, at all
>>7289161>Nintendo never again recovered their dominant spot in the console gaming industry.I remember the Wii being pretty big, it outsold the 360 and PS3. Never reached the same amount of sales as the PS1, 2 and 4 though
>>7288695Japanese nationalism.>>7288986Shitturn was too expensive to manufacture. It was like $100 more expensive than the price it was sold for.
>>7289223>>7289260Maybe if the japanese jews at Nintendo didn't try to outjew the jews at Sony, the ps1 would not exist and maybe Sony would have never entered the video game market.
>>7289161>Nintendo never again recovered their dominant spot in the console gaming industry.unfortunately, their non-retro consoles did very well (besides the wii u but the switch makes up for it)
>>7289272source on that claim?
>>7288695>the 32X killed a lot of consumer trust>Saturn started development as a 2D powerhouse, but once they found out the PSX was going to focus on 3D, they added an additional processor, making the manufacturing too expensive>the US Saturn launch was pretty fucked: way more expensive than the PSX, very few launch titles in comparison to the PSX, a surprise launch which angered a lot of retailers which weren't notified about it and decided not to carry Sega products anymore
>>7289161Sony also tried negotiating with Sega for a brief time after the SNES CD deal fell through, but they were turned-down.
>>7288695spending all their money on making not one but two horrible walking simulators (Shitmue games)
>>7289161Sounds like the N64 deserved the brutal raping that the PS1 did to it.
>>7288695their demise?sega is still around.just like atari.
>>7289427>>7289385Nintendo and Sega tried to jew Sony out and paid for it by losing a massive share of the market to Sony itself.
>>7289484SEGA already had a partnership with JVC and Hitachi.
Is this book worth?
>>7289272Consoles are always sold at a loss anon
It started with the saturn.They neglected megadrive once saturn was launched and virtua fighter 1 and daytona left a bad impression of how powerful the hardware was so that magazines would use confirmation bias to always assume the saturn version of a game was worse when sometimes the saturn version was actually better.For me personally I couldn't get a saturn because it was too expensive, ps1 only got really popular after saturn was gone and it went through a big price drop. Having saves and a clock on the saturn made it harder to reduce costs.I think it mainly was tekken and ridge racer comparisons in the early days. N64 also had a lot of hype for about 6 months after launch and there were shortages so saturn became old news.I think if they had backwards compatibility and spent an extra year on vf1 and daytona it would have started out a lot better.
>>7290603source on that?
>>7288695Absurd levels of mismanagement and general bad leadership and decision-making.A repeated slew of half-baked, underwhelming products that caused the customer base to hemorrhage and bleed over to the competition out of necessity. An inability to really keep up with the competition on a software basis in the critical transition to the 3D era.
>>7290558>take the "what went wrong?" threads from /vr/ and repost them
>>7290689Literally common knowledge and at this point frankly just common senseYou want to get the box into their house so you can then make big money overall with software purchases, thus you sell the box at a loss because who gives a fuck, that's one sale per household versus dozens of software titles over the life of the consoleBut since know-nothing auties on 4chan can't be assed to google, here's just one report on this strategy:https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080515/economics-gaming-consoles.asp#:~:text=One%20reason%20why%20companies%20sell,due%20to%20economies%20of%20scale.
>>7288695stop writing obituaries for the living, amerifat
>>7290619The problems originated way earlier. Even as early as the Master System. For instance, they never put the YM2413 in the international version, because reasons. Which meant the excellent sound (compared to NES) was only heard by the small number of Nippon players who either bought the optional add-on for the Mark III, or the Japanese version of the Master System. They didn't push it aggressively enough in Latin America (despite initially encouraging signs from Brazil), once they realized USA was no-go due to Nintendo's exclusivity grift. They badly fucked up the Master System's Europe launch (which could've partly saved their asses, profit-wise) via missing the launch window by a whole bloody month. Instead of launching mid-late November, they launched on December 26th. And the fuckup was so bad, some of their distributors went bankrupt, and others vowed to never work with Sega again. What the actual fuck. They fucked up the design of the Mega Drive. It had too little video RAM, the architecture was hypercentralized (and had specific design flaws between revisions), and the CPU was too slow for such a hypercentralized architecture. End result, the system had terrible forward compatibility. They should've never released even one expand-on, let alone 2 (not counting the Master adapter, which shouldn't have existed either). They were too greedy with the Game Gear. A backlit, color display was unfeasible for 1990. Given how utterly shittacular the actual quality of the Game Boy was (4 shades of spinach-vomit green on a ghosting screen), a display with 6 tones of gray (+black) on an unlit screen with low ghosting would have been more than enough (and would've kept battery life at reasonable levels). Given how shitty the Mega Drive was, expansion-wise, they should've never released the Sega CD as an add-on. Instead, they should've put the Model 2 sound/video ASIC in it (maybe with some extra RAM for it) and released it as a stand-alone console.
>>7290871>. It had too little video RAMSEGA had the choice between master system compatibility built into the MD VDP, or color ram. If they would have went with color ram the console would have been unbeatable for years. Sega really made some awful design decisions.
>>7290892The painful irony is that backwards compatibility was partly broken once they combined the VDP with the YM2612 in a single ASIC for the Model 2 version. And it was completely broken once they blobbed every single processing unit in a single chip for the Model 3 (and some very late Model 2 revisions).
Sega basically had a Wii U followed by a Gamecube that they dropped after a couple of years and had very easy piracyNintendo was bailed out by their handhelds, only the Wii U was an absolute disaster. I think N64 made them a good profit, Mario, Zelda, Kart, Donkey Kong, Golden Eye etc all sold very well
>>7288695Same thing that lead to Nintendo's demise - Sony. Playstation completely destroyed the old order of Nintendo vs Sega. Nintendo got lucky and managed to reinvent themselves with the Wii, allowing them to escape from Sony's domain. If Nintendo had stuck around and tried to compete head on with Sony, they would have met the same fate as Sega did.
>>7288695tendency to spend way too much money on insane shit that often didn't pay off (paying out of their own pocket so people in japan have good enough internet to play PSO, all of shenmue, hiring tons of legit musicians to make the soundtrack to shity sonic games, ect ect) and sega of america and sega of japan fucking eachother over
>>7292071> hiring tons of legit musicians to make the soundtrack to shity sonic games, ect ectThis is based though. At least 25% of a game's budget should be the soundtrack.
>Dat lack of critical thinking. The paragraph you highlighted states the reason why consolers are sold at a loss, not that all consoles are sold at a loss, and follow this business model, which is what you claimed.
>>7288856I normally don't hesitate to blame jews for bad things happening, but this is one instance where they are not to blame.The mid/late 90s was a comedy of errors for Sega, and there's only so many mistakes a company can afford to make.
>>7289385Apparently Sega of America wanted to team up with Sony but Sega of Japan decreed “no”Sega of Japan was like one of the all time retard companies
>>7292170but telling americans to go fuck themselves is usually the right thing
>>7292180>usually.It's always the right thing.
Sony cucked both Sega and Nintendo out with the playstation which was vastly superior to it's competitors, then the playstation 2.
>>7290871>release the Genesis 2 with CD (called Exodus?)>further fragment the userbaseNice going Bernie.
>>7289272>retard discovers consoles are sold at a loss
>>7292983How do you fragment the userbase when you release a new console? Did Nintendo fragment its N64 userbase when they released the GC? Or Sony fragment its PS3 userbase when they released the PS4? A stand-alone Sega CD with the Model 2's sound/video ASIC (plus, say, 128 kB sound/video RAM for it) wouldn't be just another Genesis, it would be a different, more powerful console.
>>7292170Sega routinely getting mad whenever their US side things became successful - their own products and media - was so fucking childish it's hard to believe.Anyway the Saturn was famous for leaving devs confused and overwhelmed, and I think this was the kiss of death that still followed their reputation into the next gen. Its last-minute complexity was compounded by poor documentation. Its potential was relatively high because of the frankensteining but nobody had the experience or needed information to take that to its limits. It was an obnoxious challenge to develop anything at all, let alone an efficient use of its odd strengths, so it was a ton of effort for too small a userbase, not even Sega were making significant amounts of system-seller games. That killed the Saturn and then nobody trusted the Dreamcast - after this and the 20 part Megadrive generation before it, if you were a third party dev you were almost certainly looking for how Sega was going to fuck you over in the Dreamcast.DC having its copy protection broken so quick and easy was basically it. It's not fair but it's a confirmation of fears.
>>7288695They were fighting against themselves. SoJ vs. SoAGod the Japanese are so retarded when it comes to running companies.
>>7288695greed I think.You can almost feel in their games over the years how they slowly stopped doing games for the sake of games, but just for business.They didn't foster their franchises, they milked them to the point of death.
>>7288695Too much arcade style games. The kids need thier rpgs and easy platformers to feel good about themselves.
>>7293756sega was always the same marketing drone and all its games meant to look flashy for ads and nothing else, they did consoles the same way they did arcade cabinets, vapid, flashy and shallow. When games started evolving people wanted more than gimmicky arcade shit and Sega could not adapt. What sega was selling as games were what we now would call minigames if even thatEven Sonic was designed by committee with those principles specifically to appeal to americans by ticking a list of boxes to what kid considered "cool". Poochie was a direct satire of Sonic and the way it was created and marketed and sonic was the single most iconic thing they had, no other exclusive franchise was relevant while Nintendo and Sony both pulled several each which are still remembered fondly while the later sonic games on the Dreamcast are remembered as a joke.
>>7293725There's a reason for that. Remember that Sega was originally a US corporation. SoJ were afraid that, should SoA become extremely successful, they would wrest control back, and become the senior branch. Remember that this is '90s-era Japanese business. Whatever the senior branch said, you were forced to do it, you couldn't outright oppose/cancel their demands. Even SoA weren't able to cancel the 32X and Nomad, despite attempting to use their gaijin card at every opportunity. Stolar basically had to pull a Yamauchi and publicly shit on SoJ (though the timing couldn't have been more poorly chosen) in order to make them accelerate the design milestones for the DC.
The Saturn killed Sega.>Too expensive>Too complicated>Too much competition from SonyThe N64 missed out on a ton of third party games, but at least it had strong first party killer apps. What was Sega's Mario 64? What was their Ocarina of Time? What was their FF7? The Saturn was basically a more expensive version of the PlayStation that had worse graphics and fewer games.Dreamcast was a good console for 1998, but it suffered from having to launch so early relative to the PS2.>No DVD playback when DVD was about to go mainstream>1GB discs vs 4.7-8.5GB on PS2>No backwards compatibility >No second analog stick>No rumble>1Mb memory card vs 8MB on the PS2>Cost wasted on the gimmicky VMU hardware>Cost wasted on a dial-up modem when broadband was about to take off and most of the world barely had internet anyway>Out-of-the-box piracy (this was mostly bad luck)Only way Dreamcast could have limped through would be if they went all-in and managed to get a DVD drive back in 1998.
>>7289161>there exists an alternate universe where Nintendo went ahead with Sony's CD addon for the SNESHow different would the industry be right now?
>>7288695>SegaCD and 32X addons were both commercial flops>Constant infighting between the Japanese branch and American branch>nearly everything involving the Saturn (the botched launch, Bernie Stolar, the push for 3D games on a system not designed for it, lack of any big first-party titles)>Dreamcast having no DVD function and also incredibly easy to pirate gamesQuite a long list.
>>7294249They would have made the same stupid mistake and sega and both companies would have been entered the new millenium in the black and Microsoft would have swoop in with infinite ammount of money to jewishly rape both of them and Sony into submission. Imagine the terrible state of gaming with only americans dominating the market. Truly nightmarish.In retrospect, not being able to be pants on head retarded with add ons was the best for both sony and nintendo.
>>7294145The multiple stupid decisions before the Saturn fucked Sega up. Saturn was just the last straw.
>>7294449is actually easier to just list Sega's good decision at this point, Releasing the Genesis and those shitty smear campaigns against nintendo were probably the only ones that ever paid off. Literally every single other decision they made was retarded.That company would have bankrupted and liquidated if they weren't bailed out by Yakuza of their debt, the actual Yakuza not their game named Yakuza.
How many yakuza members were under their belt and how many of them caused "accidents"?
>>7294465>>7294476Reminder that Yamauchi and Okawa were members of rival yakuza families, which directly led to the emnity between their two companies throughout the years (though it became somewhat less visible after Japanese police started busting the clans in the mid-90s).
>>7293819>Poochie was a direct satire of SonicHe was more like Rude Dog
>>7290603The "sell at a loss" trend began in the fifth generation. The Wii was the first console in 2 gens to be sold at a profit.
>>7294492>rival yakuza familiesholy shit japan is a joke lmao
>>7291440>I think N64 made them a good profit, Mario, Zelda, Kart, Donkey Kong, Golden Eye etc all sold very wellDespite the lack of third party support, Nintendo still had a relatively good reputation after the N64, especially after Golden Eye, OoT and Majora's Mask.It was the "your little brother's lunchbox" comments by Microsoft people during E3 and the unveil of Toon Link (which was forced by Eiji Aonuma behind Miyamoto's back until early 2002) what fucked Nintendo's reputation beyond belief.
>>7288695>makes billions of dollars via gambling industry>>What led to their demise?kill yourself, you retarded illiterate
>>7295818So, where's the dreamcast 2?
>>7295824baby don't hurt me
>>7295818Whoa, I didn't know Sammy was in charge now.
>>7295824>So, where's the dreamcast 2?
>>7295831> nowsince 2004. a long time. sega stopped giving a shit about consoles and stuck to what remained profitable: intellectual properties, arcade/gambling hardware and software.
>>7295838Yeah, thats what happens when you loose badly and your console business goes into demise. Sega fags will spin facts around forever to avoid admitting that sega simply failed hardcore at making and selling its consoles
>>7295806Not just that. It was a combination of factors. By 2003, game sizes had ballooned, as to need the full capacity of a DVD. This put Nintendo at a disadvantage: a game that would only need a single DVD, for the Xbox/PS2, needed 3 of GC's proprietary 1.5 GB mini-DVDs. Also, by late 2003 again, players had started to want online features. While the GC did have an online adapter, the general experience was completely barebones, and only a total of 8 games used it (of which 3 were exclusively LAN-style, with no online servers, and two were Japan-only). It wouldn't be the last time Nintendo were caught flat-footed by tech advances. The Wii didn't have HDMI support, so when HD TVs exploded in popularity in the late-00s, Nintendo were stuck with the old lo-fi composite (It was slightly less bad in Europe, due to SCART).
>>7296529The Wii also had component support, but I guess HDMI support would've been a lot better for the resolution?
>>7293819You have no idea what you are talking about. Get a clue
>>7297504Component input was the first thing to go on early-model HDTVs. I remember owning an old one which had composite, VGA, SCART, HDMI, but no component.
It's 1994 and you are the executive president of Sega. Kalinske has just informed you that Sony is going full 3D with their console, meanwhile the Saturn is largely 2D and can not compete on a technical level. SoJ engineers want to quickly double the chips. What do you do from here to save the company?
>>7289161>Nintendo never again recovered their dominant spot in the console gaming industry.Explain Wii and Switch.
>>7298636screw with your third party developers and screw with retailers, duh, its obvious
>>7297581>the sega drone can't face the facts
>>7288695unironically far too ahead of their time
>>7288695The Dreamcast and Shenmue.
>>7298331Really? I have a Vizio from 2009 and an LG from 2017 and both have Component. I have my Wii U plugged through component cuz HDMIs are occupied by the Android TV box and PS3.
The 32x was obviously really bad, but that is not all of the troubles they had. It was already mentioned but basically the way how Sega was compartmentally ran between regions hurt a lot too. The genesis was not popular in Japan, so SOJ wanted to move on, but SOA wanted to keep it, which is why the 32x ever existed in the first place. Bernieposters will tell you that he killed the company, but I think he actually made the best out of a terrible situation. The Saturn (sales wise) sucked, so why would they want to keep supporting it? All he did was tell the truth. It was a lost cause though, by the time the DC came out the consumers had lost all faith in Sega. I recommend watching Adam Koralik's retrospective on all of the Sega consoles, by watching those you can piece by piece put together the whole story.
>>7298636Copy the playstation but add an FPU. Wouldn't even have to be a good one, just something cheap so the textures vertices don't wobble.
>2021...still waiting for sega to make a functional 3d Sonic game
>>7299487its debatable wether they even made a functional 2d one
>>7288695Bad relations between sega American and jap branches, combined with PS1 having its best year the same year the DC came out AND THEN immediately followed by the PS2 launch (hype levels in orbit) and Sega just had no chance.They really should have focused on diversifying DC's lineup more and not bother with so many unaltered ports of PS1 games. If they had more action adventure and RPGs, I feel like they could have hung in there.
EA killed Sega. The Genesis succeeded because it had Trip Hawkins' blessing right from the start. As soon as Trip tried to get 3DO off the ground, EA stopped giving a shit about Sega. Losing EA is the equivalent of losing the entire sports genre. You'll always be a niche machine without them.
>>7299527i had a friend who bought a dreamcast and a cd case fool of bootlegs, it had every game worth mentioning, like 60 burned cds in there.We literally could not find a single one worth playing longer than an hour, it was all arcade shit that was boring after a few minutes or could be beaten fast never to be played again. The fighters were cool i guess, we loved Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Soul Calibur but those were ported anyways. Sega didn't really have any killer apps. There was an okayish record of lodoss war game and skies of arcadia which was still not as good as diablo or psx rpgs respectively.
>>7288695TOO much cocaine.
>>7299820this might be unironically true
>>7293819>>7294145pretty much these 2 things. half assed hardware that failed to compete (and no games), and any games they did make were complete messes of spaghetti code and shitty function. during that time AND after their fall to software only, they consistently give zero fucks about making a quality product and care only about deadlines, image, and "yeah it might have bugs, but can you still beat it? yes? then shut up, its fine." sonic adventure 1 and 2 have major flaws, but at least they tried. every sonic game after has been a walking abortion.
>>7288986>chip shortages that couldn't keep up with Dremcast demandThis was the big one.The Dreamcast beat the PS2 to market by TWO FUCKING YEARS, but most gamers still just sat and waited for the PS2.It's mindboggling, really. The Dreamcast should have been a slam-dunk sweep of market like the PS1 was, but instead it was another short lived failure just like the Saturn.
>>7300764People have been scammed by sega several times already by that point, and even then the Dreamcast broke record sales on release, proving that some sega fans really had no dignity
Don't forget that the arcade was Sega's lifeblood, and at the time arcades were dying everywhere but Japan.>>7301035Sega always had its longtime fans. Those who wanted a Dreamcast, probably bought one on day one. The graphics were amazing and the console was only $199. After that point, every normie was riding on PS2 hype or enjoying some of the best years of the PS1's life.
>>7288695Getting bought out by chinese investors.Oh wait, not yet.
>>7299540In the lead up to the Dreamcast, EA probably had as much confidence in Sega as consumers did. EA did give a shit about Sega insomuch as they provided means to sell their software to consumers. Had Sega not mismanaged their hardware in the mid '90s EA would probably have been their in force for the Dreamcast. So, as others have stated, Sega killed Sega. Sony was simply the final nail the coffin.
>>7301035 Not to mention that the PS1 had a larger user base than the SNES/Genesis combined. A lot of people waited for the PS2 because, I think, PS1 was their first console.
The Saturn and 32X debacle in the west severely affected CSK but the Dreamcast is objectively what killed them. They needed an attach rate of 2. 2 games for each Dreamcast sold. They couldn't hit that target and so CSK collapsed.
>>7288819Specifically dumb decisions like not porting Star Wars Trilogy to the Dreamcast, which would have gotten millions of SW fans buying Dreamcasts.
Sega’s demise? They’re still alive and doing very well financially.
>>7303639Sega didn't just quit home hardware. They died in a takeover. Their name survives. Sega itself is long dead.
>>7288695>Never the company>Never drew a dime>Never had a good game before 2005 and even then was carried by vastly superior games>Never put anyone over>Never had the balls to step out their Japan comfort even when Microsoft threw millions at them when the company needed it>Instead, allowed themselves to get worked into a shoot by pachinko money marks>Main evented the lowest drawing console generation>Tanked the buyrate of Saturn outside Japan so hard it also tanked Dreamcast's buyrate, leading to the company quitting the console business>Was barely ever supported by anyone because the company was never a big enough deal>So stubborn it refused outside help from others when developing Saturn's architecture>Only the 6th best arcade developer>Only the 7th best console manufacturer>Only the 9th best gaming mascot>Only the 5th best rhythm game developer>The company's mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog, was utterly BTFO by everything else and achieved nothing notable unless fans have 100% creative control on him>Japanese and American branches constantly headbutts each other in backstage politics all up the ass>Needed misleading performance enhancement advertising to beat SNES>Bought Atlus, the company's only positive impact on the business, purely for the crossovers and weeb appeal>Spent the rest of company's life carried by weebs and nostalgiafags>Is the gaming equivalent of that one insufferably mediocre developer whose sole professional """""""achievement"""""" is staying in the same shitty business for years>The biggest impact the company had on the business was sitting around in the back and telling one of their regional divisions to job to each other.
>>7288695Sega was shit and continues to be shit. Everyone realizes this quickly when playing their games.
I went back and played through some of the sega games and 90 percent were pure shit.
>>728869532x bombed, Sega CD bombed, Saturn bombed, Dreamcast was slaughtered by the subsequent generations.
>>7305113I hate to admit this, but its true. I love sega, own a genesis and a saturn, but i do find myself researching genesis for games and just being completely underwhelmed.