Was he really such a bad protagonist?
>>10433318he looks like he wants his turn on the xbox and mom said so
>>10433318FF games don't have protagonist.Every character is important.
>>10433338Is this the official cope among FFXII fans?
>>10433338Half or more of the cast of all the PS1 games is entirely worthless past the first 3-4 hours
>>10433318He was a fucking shoe in for some reason and it really hurt the game imo. If he didn't exist in the game, nothing would really change.
>>10433381I read it's because SE saw Vagrant Story flopped and for whatever reason they chalked it up to an older protag
Hes not the protagonist. The story centers mostly around Basch and Ash. Balthier and Fran take up most the rest of the story, then you got Vaan and Penalo.
>>10433318Yes. He literally only exists to get Japanese women to buy the game. Look it up.
>>10433363After watching the entire video you will feel as retarded as your retarded opinionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJz69K11PAI
>>10433615This. After Vaan and Basch get their mixup resolved, he doesn’t develop at all. Him and Penelo are just along for the ride basically, with Vaan sometimes sharing a spooky ghost vision with Ashe.>t. 12 enjoyer
He is the protagonist of his own game.
>>10433830Jesus christ I forgot that game existed. I remember getting half way through the story before getting bored and playing Mario 64 DS for the millionth time
>>10433318Give your reasoning for why you think Vaan is the protagonist of FFXII.>Y-You play as him first!No you don't. That means Reks is the protagonist.>Y-You're forced to use him in towns!Due to hardware limitations of the PS2. It wasn't the plan originally.>B-But...The story isn't told from Vaan's perspective beyond the intro, and most of the cutscenes once Ashe joins the party focus on her and Balthier. He isn't even the standard player stand-in who gets the plot explained at them. Vaan is relegated to a background character and isn't even privy to a lot of the game's big story/character moments (like when Balthier reveals to Ashe, alone, at the Phon Coast that he used to be a Judge).
>>10433862sorry to destroy your head canon anon-kun
>>10433867Whatever their intentions Vaan is not the main character of the game.
for years i didnt dislike him but recently i finally finished the game and it mildly fucking irked me when during the tower sequence with Gabranth he pops out like a dickhead to say "AND MY BROTHER >:(" after Ashe pipes upiirc i mumbled "oh shut the fuck up Vaan"
>>10433885>here the writer says of the main character->"hes not"ok buddy
>>10433969I'm not wrong. If he's the main character then why doesn't the story center around him? Again its all about Ash, she's the main character.
>>10433974who is the main character in Seven Samurai
>>10433867why do japanese people only buy games with sissy protagonists?
>>10433338God I WISH that was the case with IX.
>>10433862Protagonist? No, but he is ultimately the one who ends up saving the world.
>>10434084and when I say saved the world, I mean "stopped the one person who was about to be given the power to destroy the world pause, causing her to cast away that power", not that he literally saved the world. No one did that in XII, that's not the point of the story.
>>10434067it's just nu-japan, they never used to be like that, 80s japan was pretty manly emulating a lot of american pop culture gun movies and shit
>>10433318Yes. He feels shoehorned from the first second on because of some "we must do femboys" philosophy SE follows and the game would be objectively better without him
>>10433338>>10433615>>10433646>>10433969>>10434084>are forced to play a shit character from the first second on that's not even the protagonistNot that I agree with you, I think the character you have to play in a game is the protagonist, but this would make it even worse and dumber
>>10433318Yes. But none of the other characters are really any better. The characters are the weakest part of 12.
>>10434117>>10434067After Hard Gay's comedy career took off, big muscles became identified as a gay men thing so big buff man became "haha faggot" humor.
>>10433338>Every character is important.Not only is this wrong, most characters are also total cringefests
>>10434502>Not only is this wrong,Have you ever played FFXII?FFXII does not contain a godlike main character who does most of the stuff and decisions. Vann can't accomplish anything without Ashe, Basch, Balthier, Fran and Penelo. This same fact applies to every character.
>>10434527>Have you ever played FFXII?Sadly
>>10433338This, FF stories are basically like sitcom episodes
>>10433318No. I never understood this hate. I played this pretty quickly after x then x2, so maybe a couple of months after x2. He seems like a mellower version of tidus. I definitely think tidus is horrible, and then Yuna had a huge personality change in x2 which I hated. After those games ff12 seemed to have amazing characters all around. Balthier is still one of my favorite ff characters throughout the series
>>10433318His one important role in 12 is to tell Ashe to grow some balls.
>>10433646Imagine watching YouTube videos in 2023 and regurgitating opinions from YouTube
>>10433318Yes because he was shoehorned in during development. The MC was actually Balthier but the team was worried he wouldnt connect with the players (self-inserting is a BIG DEAL in japan) so they added Vaan. Thats why he feels so disconnected from it all.
>>10434773NTA, but it's a cutscene compilation, retard-kun.
>>10433318This looks gnarly
>>10433318He's a nu-Square character so yes
>>10435346i dont really understand Balthier's reaction in this. what is he shuffling around for?
>>10435874He is cringing.
>>10434351Vaan does actually play an important role that I think a lot of people gloss over, and it's the perspective of a normal person. XII does actually make it a point over and over how the nobility, both the villains and the party, are constantly scheming and maneuvering against each other without the slightest care about what the average person on the ground thinks about all of this political bullshit. The game says like no less than 5 times something to the effect of, "all you nobles and politicians think about is power and how to wield it against each other" in different ways. There are NPCs both in Rabanastre and Archaedes that say something that basically says, "hey rich assholes, did you ever consider that maybe WE, who have to fight your wars, don't want one?" I do think having someone like Vaan in the party is necessary because it shows the sheer disconnect between the powerful and the powerless. It's why Vaan often has the perspective of "who fucking cares?" when Ashe talks about shit like restoring her royal honor. It's why the game concludes that Arcadians are not the problem, it's people at the top who see everyone below them as pawns to maneuver against each other.>>10434423Which I find hilarious because Hard Gay is not that buff. Even at his peak he basically just had a tennis player physique.
>>10435959Also, forgot to mention this, one of the core themes of the game is humans have in the grand scheme of things have relatively short lifespans, so the ones with power are absolutely OBSESSED with making their mark on the world and having a legacy. Even if it's to the detriment of the common man.
>>10435959>Which I find hilarious because Hard Gay is not that buff. Even at his peak he basically just had a tennis player physique.Absolutely agree.Guy still makes me laugh tho, I still remember when he sang live on a TV show the Kamen Rider theme while hip thrusting and having Rider 1's mask on his crotch.
I think it's weird that the series romanticizes Latin so much like if it makes the story that much more sophisticated.
>>10433318Yes because I want to be Balthier.
>>10435874Memes aside, >>10435918 is correct. Balthier's frustration is visible as he knows he must tolerate idiocy/pandering between nobles in order to get the result he wants, but it's entirely lame humans can get away with such shallow behavior... and even seem to enjoy it.He cringes at shallow behavior and praised hypocrisy.
>>10433318vaan is a cocksucker
>>10436196what about Fran? looking at it again she almost seemed jealous imo.
>>10436261Envious condescension.>I wish I was young and stupid enough to get lost like these Humes.>It's a shame I had to be a so much wiser than all these fools.It's mostly humorous scene, though. All the girls look immersed in the flirting; it's wonderful, all the guys look frustrated they even see it; it's pathetic.
They should have left Basch as the main character as originally intended but test audiences wanted a twink main character
>>10434773Youtube videos have more influence than your opinions ever will. You might as well not even speak.
>>10436406Fran was the must lustful bunny-girl in all Ivalice. She left her Wood just to just on Balthier's wood.
>>10436406Basch is literally a nothing character with almost no agency. He's so desperate to never fail his charge again that he'll follow Ashe no matter how retarded her decisions are, because he's placed loyalty over common sense.
>>10433318People give him shit because Square released some hypergay promo art of him where he looked like some jpop idol.But in the game he's just a sneaky sincere kid and him and Penelo are the POV characters and provide the moral axis of the entire group (everyone else has a complicated allegiance, backstory and motivations) Once Ashe, Balthier and Basch join the plot revolves around them, but every now and then Vaan or Penelo give a "common sense" opinion on what should be done.Also the outfit is supposed to be a variation of the FFT Monk outfit.
Balthier is the leading man.
>>10433318I would never play a game like this and I don't understand men who do.
>>10434067Japanese culture has historically valued beautiful men over hairy muscle-bound brutes. The latter is associated with gaijin barbarism. There were some brief moments where the western ideal of the buff macho guy was attempted to be pushed but it never stuck and became associated with homosexuality.
>>10436208>>10436210https://files.catbox.moe/mlcfbk.webmI find it most amusing that the JP voices for this scene are the single greatest giveaway that this game's English dub was favored - Balthier literally says nothing at all for the lip flaps where he groans and says "NICE, VAAN."https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N15uWdoKsxE
>>10436675Stop being reasonable on 4channel
>>10436675>Also the outfit is supposed to be a variation of the FFT Monk outfit.It is? I always thought it was going for an aladdin thing since he also has a street rat background.
>>10436431>she's icelandicOh, so that's what the fuck Fran's accent is
>>10436434all characters are lame, that is what I'm getting from this thread
>>10437580Basch being a nothing character with 0 agency is unironically integral to his character though, it's on purpose from the writer.
>>10435959True that's why i loved him and penelo. Didn't care too much for ash for some reason. The spin off in my opinion fleshes the characters out a bit more
>>10437501The English VA work is critically renowned as easily top 3 of any game media ever produced. I wonder how the Japanese team felt. Programmers included.
>>10433318Why are his muscles brighter than the rest of his skin?
>>10438670FFXII has real wierd textures on skin, the HD version toned it down.
>>10437730I mean, you can actually ditch Penelo and it doesn't affect the story much. But I don't think you can do the same with Vaan, someone else has to fulfill his role and there's no other commoner in the party to say what he says if both him and Penelo are gone.
>>10433318yes. thread over.
>XII originally just has a pseudo-NG+ where nothing carries over but you start at level 90 instead (and a NG- where you start at level 1 and don't gain xp)>pc ver of TZA comes out>modders make a true NG+ where your shit actually carries over>square sees this, officially patches that as a NG+ option into the gameI wish stuff like that happened more often, where a fan thing is so popular the devs officially put it in.
>>10435959The main point is really "what's the difference between a hume king and the occuria in the end? They think they same in how power is wielded and how people beneath them are valued, one is just a wierd alien"Also>the occuria all speak in iambic tetrameter>except for Venat the heretic who speaks in pentameterThat must have been an absolute BITCH for the localizers, and knowing Hashino it was probably at his request.
>>10438783It was actually because in japanese they have multiple layers of voice distortion that makes it hard to suss out what they're saying and you have to read the game's subtitles, and the english version instead went with them speaking in rhythm to keep them sounding unique without just doing what they did in japanese where they sound like garbled gibberish.
>>10438741>fixed the abs>arms still look like an exoskeleton
>>10440704It depends on the lighting, it doesn't look so bad when you're in daylight.
>>10440704>>10438670Everyone comments on the muscles but not the fact that every character in the game looks like they have dark sunken eyes. I get WHY this is the case, they were trying to make the models look like the concept art, Vagrant Story did it too, but it just makes everyone look sleep-deprived.
>>10442161I think it's fine. They look a bit weird yeah, but it's kinda hot. Their faces manage to have that otherworldly effeminacy that the Japanese apparently love so much, while NOT for once looking inhumanly doll-like, not looking crudely distorted in any chibi-type way, and somehow not even having diminished noses, diminished mouths, or magnified eyes in the standard anime fashion. I'd take this weird style over any other one I've ever seen from a 3D Final Fantasy game. (Although FF9's more exaggerated characters can be pretty awesome-looking, especially Steiner and Vivi.)
DON'T BELIEVE ONDORE'S LIES
>>10442749https://youtu.be/vSyfGm6wXgs?si=f6o0aygRvcGS6EdkOld and still good
>>10433862>visible ass cheeki simp for women who do this
>>10433318He was the protagonist?
>>10443018He was the pov character, Ashe is arguably the protagonist but there's a pretty big asterisk there
>>10443024I thought it was captain basch fon ronsenburg of dalmasca.
>>10443028No. I think anyone says Basch is the protagonist, or even works as one considering his role in the game, just want a complete page 1 rewrite of the story that undercuts his entire character just because they like his aesthetic.
I don't even mind Vaan but I wish he had some agency in the plot other than convincing Ashe to chill the fuck out.
>political intrigue Who thought that was a good idea?
>>10443078Hashino since he does it in every game only to reveal that SURPRISE, there were gods/demons behind everything the whole time!
>>10443307I don't know why I said Hashino, brain fart. I meant Matsuno
>>10433318>protagonistWasn't that really Ashe? And yes. He was surrounded by an entire party of great characters and then there's this spastic fuck with the crop top vest.
>>10443361>great characters>ffxiiLol no way ur serious
>>10443365You're right I'm not. I only played it for like 2 hrs and then used an action replay to see all the summons and quickenings. Never played it again after that. Looked pretty. Balthier was cool. Fran was hot. Gabranth had cool armor. My favorite final fantasies are 1, 4, Dissidia because I played them. Need to give 6 a real try.
>>10443365I like the party of ff12 quite a bit. The only one who warms the bench is penelo because of her stupid jetpack shoulders
>>10443468Penelo warms my bench with her stupid leotard.
>>10443381Oh, so you were only talking about the designs, then. Fair enough. I like most of the character designs too.I love 12 and played like 150 hours of it, but virtually nothing about the stories of the characters is compelling.The overarching story is pretty boring too.It's just got a nice, giant world that's fun to explore.
>>10443468Penelo is the best black mage in the game...but half the time I can outdamage her with a good melee combo anyway. Vaan can output an absolutely stupid amount of damage as either a samurai or ninja
>>10444395I have never watched the show, but there's an actress in House of the Dragon that has always reminded me of someone and this webm just made me realize it's Penelo.
>>10433318He was very forgettable. I say so because I remember nothing much about him. Or 12's story in general, though I liked the game.>>10433338Depends on the FF. Like Cecil and Cloud are clear main characters, while Terra and Vaan are kinda main characters in ensemble casts.
>>10445342>I have never watched the show, but there's an actress in House of the Dragon that has always reminded me of someoneProbably the Woozster
>>10436424>Youtube videos have more influence than your opinions ever willMaybe on mouthbreathers who aren't worth to speak with in the first place.
>>10436206my wood longs for fran
>>10442750>"nice outfit">notoriety 95%>"let me show you who I am">notoriety drops to 0%kek
>>10437521>IcelandHope she's gonna be fine...
>>10444763I'm running vaan as monk in my current izjs playthrough and he is my heavy hitter. But armguard on him and he just goes brrrrrrrrrrrrr
>>10435874Balthier is carefully keeping his coolness, nihilism and greatness in careful balance to exude masculine dandism. And then he gets outdone by an apple tea slurping poof going "Dilara, your eyes are so pretty".
>>10443031Basch pretty much only exists to set up Gabranth.
>>10438448>I wonder how the Japanese team felt. Programmers includedThey didn't give a shit, they never do. Do you care about, say, German dub to games you play? You don't speak it, you don't care. In fact they had Balthiers Japanese VA come and do his lines live for the NHK FF anniversary special, here's a timestamphttps://youtu.be/kncSGEzmNyQ?si=8rsycjpl6g92VxHC&t=2525Yeah I'd say they prefer that one, that's the vibe I'm getting
"The Rabanastre Renegade""The Dalmascan Dalmations"
>>10448731Japanese people think English is cool.International Zodiac Job System included included the English voices, so at least some people wanted that.
>>10444395Penelo needs and deserves to be impregnated repeatedly
>>10433338That's only the case for FFVI.
>>10443381>gives opinions on games he's never playedabout sums up 4channel in one post i'd say
>>10433318this thread convinced me to play ff12 again. last time I played it was when wow TBC came out
>>10455276FFXII is a remarkable game to re-experience.
>>10456385Remarkably dull, time wasting and Star Wars 'inspired'
>>10460024seriously, there isn't one character in that game that stands outeven FFXIII has Lightning
this is the most fun FF game to me but ive still never finished it. but its the FF ive played the most. i dont get the hate this game gets at all.
>>10433318>Annoying affeminine manlet protagonistFfX was worse>>10433849This game is pretty fun for a RTS on a DS
>>10460081Balthier and Fran stand out to me
>>10433318He is my favorite twink protagonist.
>>10435346Built for BRCBigRozarrianCock
>>10436406>They should have left Basch as the main character as originally intended This was already debunked by Matsuno himself.
>>10438670>>10438741i think his skin is supposed to be all mottled because of farmers tan, sun damage, poor nutrition, and dirt, because hes poor
>>10462176Literally everyone can tell Varn is a shoein because Square Enix believes FF MUST have a gay main character
>>10462959>because Nomura believes FF MUST have a gay main characterftfy
>>10433318>Was he really such a bad protagonist?His being a bad protagonist is a consequence of greater narrative failure of the game.
>>10463068I know Nomura is especially bad but clearly it's not just Nomura. Nomura had nothing to do with 12 or this. And we all know about Amano
>>10465468The English word for a decorative accessory to attach pieces of garment together (especially if meant to attract attention, appears on top layers, and is made of metal) is called a brooch, Anon. It's preventing his Dalmascan waistcoat from falling off.
>>10461976Who are your top 5?
>>10446970>Worth to speak withWorth speaking to**Retardo
>>10463968>I know Nomura is especially bad but clearly it's not just NomuraApparently everything is because of Nomura to these people. Every single thing you see in any Final Fantasy game is because of Nomura. Even after Nomura left the FFVII Remake team, the whispers and everything happening in part 2 is because of Nomura. Even the OG FFVII, which was when Sakaguchi became the "showrunner" of Final Fantasy (and had his name plastered front and center as Executive Producer from FFVII to FFX) was apparently all Nomura's doing.
>>10433318is this possible natty?
>>10436675All of the renders and promo art of the characters in this game make them look awful. I like how Reks looks in game but the render emphasizes all the worst parts
>>10433318Literally who? An even more femmeboi looking Ashley?
>>10473106>Literally who?Link Hyrule