Post your favorite slow frail mixed attacker.
>>54514863is craw considered slow, frail, or even mixed?
>>54515127He leans towards physical but still has the SFMA spread.
>>54514863so good it got banned
>>54515127slow yes, mixed yes, frail debatable but yes
>>54515127Nasty Plot Crawdaunt was unironically good
>>54514863At least 90 in each attack and at most 80 in any other stat
I am incapable of holding back
>>54515271you wouldn't believe how popular camerupt is
That's my piece of shit boy right there.
>>54515271>AegislashAlright anon, we both know that doesn't count.Toxtricity too at the very least has a combination of traits (namely moves and ability) that elevates it to an effective wall breaker. Slow Frail Mixed Attackers kind of have to be shit to feel like Slow Frail Mixed Attackers.
>>54515271>>54515538Iffy on Blaziken too (even not counting Speed Boost), 80 feels like it's getting a little too fast to be slow.
>>54514863Victreebel is pretty tits and would be prettier with tits if you catch my mon *french snorts*.
>>54515546I love this lil' nigga like you wouldn't believe.
>>54514863I love the SV dex images, they unironically have a lot of soul
>Crawdaunt hanging out with the Poliwags I thought Crawdaunt was supposed to be a rogue
Maybe one day he'll get more then just Water Absorb
>>54515638Sand veil is unironically better
>>54515671I'm not a big fan of coin toss abilities
>>54515633Looks like it's supposed to be scaring them away
Slow frail mixed attackers were a mistake
>>54515681I am, it's funny
>>54515638Seeing Claydol, I was gonna ask if the opposite build of "slow weak all defenses no HP" was as bad then I remembered that's just Toxapex. Hell, Skarmory is basically a floating defense stat and it's been a defensive mainstay for decades. I guess it all comes down to typing and tools. What tools do SFMAs need to not suck dick?
>>54516845Well in Crawdaunt's case, hit really fucking hard, have Knock-Off and a priority move.
>>54516530since when was 90 considered slow?>>54515629since when was having 100+ on at least one defense stat considered frail?
>>54516845>What tools do SFMAs need to not suck dick?An item that rewards mixed attacking would help. Something like>Using a physical attack boosts your Sp.Atk stat by 50% next turn. Using a special attack boosts your Atk. stat by 50% next turn.Also, poweful priority moves.
>>54515544I initially tried only Pokemon below 70 but that was only Aegislash
>>54515494it's not shit, just powercrept
>>54515544Base 80 speed is 284 maxthat was already too slow for its level of frailty in its debut generation
>>54517888Brother I played gen 3 competitive with Cacturne and it was shit back then too. It was probably at its best in gen 4 because it got Sucker Punch, but even then it was shit.
>>54515567Wish he got Solar Blade for a physical Sun set
>gets no proper physical STAB>gets no special coverage to make use of 95 Sp.Att>too weak to run mixed sets>Too slow and frail to be a bulky attacker>gets released powercrept right on release, because Electivire exist, which has better offenses, is faster and has better coverage optionsBeing a Luxray fan is suffering. It would´ve been fun to have it be a Special attacker with No Guard, spamming perfect Thunders and maybe Focus Blast for coverage, but oh well.
>>54515127>slowYes.>frailYes on the special side. And it's mediocre on the physical side.>mixedSorta. It almost always runs physical sets, but a special set can be nice to catch an opponent offguard.
>>54515271I'd argue a SFMA is any mon whose 2 highest stats are attack and sp attack, and whose speed is below 100.It's not just a matter of viability or raw stats relative to other mons. It's a matter of optimization, I think. With a SFMA, it always feels like the points in one attacking stat are being wasted.
>>54519499since when is 80-99 slow?
>>54519499>and whose speed is below 100.That's way too high.
>>54517888>>54518038Using Cacturne as intended he has always indeed been shit, but at least in Gen 3 his leech stall set was cheesy enough that I'm pretty sure he got something banned
>>54519569Sand Veil got banned, not because it was too powerful, but becasue it was pure RNG. Cacturne certainly wasn't the target of the ban.
>>54519462>when they burn crawdaunt only to eat a hydro pump to the facefeels kino man
The fucking goatest
Unique and endearing design, love the face.
Cacturne and Scovillain because they still somehow caused problems and seething despite having a spread that bad
>>54516845>What tools do SFMAs need to not suck dick?busted ass abilities like weather setting, regenerator and sheer force
>>54519578I never quite got the issue with Sand Veil, Double Team I get because it basically snowballs itself, but Sand Veil is about as RNG as Stone Edge.Like I have had games won were Stone Edge didn't miss or crit and realistically that's just a coin toss.
>>54520220It was only banned in gen 4 iirc, because Garchomp and Sandstorm were annoying and it was annoying, so they wanted to force it to use another ability. It was a bit whiny, but I kind of get it.
>>54520220>>54520232cacturne's peak might've been gen 3. you could troll with permasand + sand veil
Shiftry is epic.Is his new ability and running Tailwind viable? It seems like a lot of fun
>>54517036>since when was having 100+ on at least one defense stat considered frail?since always
>>54519578Same kind of people who say that Glalie is good because of an RNG ability.
>>54517036since Gen 1 / Gen 2 where having a low HP stat renders your high defense stat practically null, especially when the other is 45 base
>>54520250there's no telling how many generations that was actually viable in; it just caught on in gen3ou---mind you, like 5 or 6 years after the format became playable on Showdown, not even counting the total years of its existenceIt says a lot about how uncreative Smogonshitters are that it didn't blow up until 2020, and was banned soon afterSo again, maybe Cacturne in Sand could have been good in other gens too, but they weren't going to figure that out any time soon
>>54518038>Brother I played gen 3 competitive with Cacturne and it was shit back then tooBecause you are a dumb low elo shitter
>>54519462Crawdaunts ran Ice Beam or Sludge Bomb in BDSP OU to kill Tangrowth (and Fairies).
>>54515671Sand rush would be even better.
>>54519553>since when is 80-99 slow?since Gen 1Since Gen 3Sharpedo is too slow (base 95) and too frail.Blaziken is too slow (base 80) and too frail.Heracross is in fact too slow (base 85) but makes up for that with one of the highest base attacks in the game, one of the strongest stabs in the game, and perfect coverage for its metagame.If you aren't base 100, you're getting outsped by Gengar, Taurus, Starmie, Salamence, Zapdos, and the like, who can seriously threaten your mon back in return.Take Jynx vs Gengar lead matchup---Gengar will attempt to put it to sleep, and the fact that Lovely Kiss is higher accuracy won't mean a thing.If you open up the gen3ou builder, you will notice that there are zero slow frail mixed attackers in OU or UUBL except Blaziken, and that everything slower than base 100 is either exceptionally bulky or not mixed.
>>54520907not pre-split, it goes without saying
Is sad that muh no weakness meme, don't help it much with that atrocious speed and defenses
>>54519569>Using Cacturne as intended he has always indeed been shitThat's false and moronic."As intended", Cacturne was meant to be run in Sandstorm to compensate for its frailty, and then players were given offensive options due to its abnormally large and even attacking stats to supplement its obvious utility utility (Spikes, Leech Seed, what have you).Cacturne exists as a Grass type that could be run on Sand teams when the synergy that otherwise exists for that type with that archetype is lacking.
>>54515127Crawdaunt is textbook Hoenn SFMA, the difference between it and all the rest is that it hits so disgustingly hard it can justify the state of the rest of it's stats.
>>54519578Sand Veil was banned because it was too powerful for Smogon shitters. "Pure RNG" is a bullshit cope when there are plenty of other Pure RNG moves items and abilities that didn't get touched.It was Cacturne + Gligar in Sand with Sand Veil that mindbroke Smogon shitters.>>54520220Autistic manchildren can't deal with missing attacks because of their opponents' tactics.
>>54520988>Crawdaunt is textbook Hoenn SFMAthat's actually Cacturne, which doesn't have a defensive stat worth mentioning at all, as opposed to crawdaunt's high defense, not to mention sub 100 attacking stat
>>54518694he needs an alola form already
>>54520946I don't see how doubling his speed would be affected by the split.
>>54521088because its physical movepool is too bad for swords dance and growth is too weak for its special power and movepoolit cannot sweep or even really wallbreak
>>54521108That doesn't make it worse than sand veil pre split, though. At least with doubled speed it's guaranteed a chance to do something other than praying for the opponent to miss.
>>54520988Don’t forget it also had adaptability aqua jet to make up for its speed. Fuckin love crawdaunt, what a rad craw dad monster.>>54521011I wish cacturne was better, but I still love it
>no one has posted the GOD-KING of SFMA NationENTER.
>>54521304look, I get what you're going for, but I don't think anything with like 220 base HP can really be called frail
>>54520960>Parabolic Charge>A signature physical equivalentLiterally all it needs
>>54521166>That doesn't make it worse than sand veil pre splitfor Cacturne, it doesHigher speed does little to nothing for it with what tools it has available, versus higher evasion>At least with doubled speed it's guaranteed a chance to do something other than praying for the opponent to missYou would think, but no. All it would do is Sceptile's Sub-Leech set but not be buffeted by sand.That is less effective than what it was doing, which is Sub-Leech but also be almost untouchable.A chance to miss is way more powerful than you think it is.
>>54521192>I wish cacturne was betterCacturne is as good as it needs to be with the niche it was designed to have. It's that Smogon fanfiction removed its niche.
>>54521564>>54521555>having a 20% chance to dodge an attack if you build your team around it or otherwise being crap is great actuallyIt can sometimes win you games but it's gonna subpar in 80% of games
>>54521564Honestly even with sand veil in the main game I feel I’d prefer water absorb for the immunity
>>54521555It's 'powerful', but nowhere near consistent enough to be a useful tool. All it can do is surprise people who don't expect it, and thus don't have a hard counter for it. 20% to not get fucked is still an 80% chance of complete fuckery, so good luck setting a sub with 0 HP and base 55 speed.Besides, sand rush didn't exist at all pre split, it was added in gen v, so now I'm wondering why you brought the split into it at all.
>>54521796>>54521586the metagame in gen3ou trends slower and there are notable sets of common mons it walls like zapdos and breloom when cacturne has a substitutebesides, with sand and leech seed, even if something like salamence comes in and breaks the sub immediately, it's getting chipped; and that's if it doesn't come in on a leech seed thus inviting sub spam till it switches outbut thanks for recognizing why cacturne wasn't broken and thus how smogonfags are stupid babies
>bad ability>bad defensive stats>dog-ass speed>terrible coverage>dies in the turn it takes to set trick roomIt could run a stall-oriented set but even then it would be better on any pokemon with the same moves. But i love him all the same because he's silly lookin
>>54521755an immunity to water doesn't mean much in a game where almost all of them have coverage to hit grass types hard
>>54521885swap the offensive stats with the defensive stats and increase said defensive stats by at least 20 eachproblem solved
>>54521879Our disagreements aside, I'm always happy to bash the smoggies.
>>54521950I still feel like Levitate isn't exactly necessary on it though, given Grass already resists Ground. Stakeout and Strong Jaw both fit thematically , even Overgrow would be better if we keep the stats the same
>>54522039You're insane if you think Overgrow would be better on Carnivine than Levitate. It can switch in on a strong (boosted / banded) earthquake which could two-shot it even with a resist, plus don't forget it ignores Spikes and Toxic Spikes.
>>54522049that would only matter in gen3, and still suffers the issue of no reliable recovery in sandit'd be a mere defensive pivot
>>54516652I named my shiny Galarian Slowbro High Noon based off of her sun yellow color and for me throwing her out as my last pokemon, as a last ditch effort to pull the game out in my favor. Obviously I run quick draw and quick claw too to make the stakes a gamble.
>>54522115This. Having ONLY Levitate is a detriment to its viability, because it locks you into a niche role that's better filled by almost any other mon with Levitate
>>54521885Needs an evolution. Just start the fuck over.
>>54521890It kind of makes sense, but I feel I wouldn’t run into sandstorms enough in the campaign enough to justify it.
>>54522327Is that from Procyon/Deneb?
>>54514863NOT SO SLOW NOW, BITCH
>>54517036>since when was 90 considered slow?since gayfreak caught on to the meta and started to shit out minmaxed mons, so around gen 6/7-ish
>>54521388What about Wailord?
>>54521885this nigga needs an evolutionhell i'd even take a paradox form
>>54525161no paradox mons were a mistakethat will only ruin carnivine