where did the backlash came to begin with when no one gives a fuck about diantha

>>53861145
Cynthia? Nah. Turbowank for her is expected. You'd just get a lot of posts about how Cynthia doms Diantha in bed.

Iris? Way, way, waaay more backlash initially and gen 5 vs. gen 6 shitposting would skyrocket. Lots of mudslinging, lots of ass pain

>>53861162
I meant if Cynthia swept Iris without using three of her Pokemon in a similar fashion how Leon only used three of his full party team.

>>53861145
Cynthia? No
Iris? Hell yeah.

Mega Garchomp + Dynamax Togekiss/Spiritomb could 2v6 Diantha

>>53861153
It's not pro-Diantha it's anti-Leon

>>53861145
Man, Leon just doesn't work. I've never been sold on him somehow being some god-tier trainer.

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>>53861225

>>53861225
This.

Leon being ridiculously powerful was forced by the anime.

Cynthia in every continuity is portrayed as powerful without question. Not THE most powerful, just powerful. Then she has her in game battles to back up those portrayals.

That’s the problem here. How they where both presented. The anime even still backs up the Cynthia being powerful history by making her #2.

Cynthia being powerful is just better presented in the franchise as a whole than whatever the hell has been done with Leon.

>>53861145
Man, Cynthia just doesn't work. I've never been sold on her somehow being some god-tier trainer.

>>53861145
No. People would lick cum off of Cynthia. The same people that mock Lance for having three Dragonites would cream themselves nonstop if Cynthia had three Garchomps.

>>53861284
I'm pretty sure you're confusing anime product shilling with genuine strength. Leon was #1 because he represented Gen 8, the modern gen at the time, and had to be quickly built up to be the final challenge for Ash. That would make him the last hurdle to overcome to solidify that Ash made it as a trainer. Cynthia was #2 because the Gen 4 remakes also made her topical, which is also why they had that pseudo Sinnoh arc thrown in as well earlier in the year. It's just marketing.

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>>53861298
>The same people that mock Lance for having three Dragonites would cream themselves nonstop if Cynthia had three Garchomps.
not true
Cynthia having a varied diverse ;) team is one of her strengths and why the fandom acknowledges her as the best champion fight/team.

Lance gets mocked for:
-being designated Kanto/Johto jobber to wank Blue & Red since gen 1 (in anime he instead jobbed to Diantha & Leon .. not even to the MC)
-dragon trainer vs flying trainer meme
-autistic cape
He does have some fans though.

>>53861310
>It's just marketing.
This sums up everything Pokémon has done since 1996

>>53861225
>wtf why is the guy who dedicates his entire career to Pokemon battles stronger than the literal who fucks who spend half their time jerking off over rocks?

>>53861284
>Leon being ridiculously powerful was forced by the anime.
The game already implies Leon is stronger than the other champions.

>>53861320
There's a reason they changed Venusaur to Blastoise for the international release after all.

>>53861315
It's interesting that the only people who ever cared about the perceived strength of a champion are Cynthiatroons, as if she isn't just as easily sweepable as any of them despite having a varied diverse ;) team. Get yourself a Scizor, swords dance x3 during the first phase where spiritomb can do nothing about it and sweep her entire team with bullet punch. It's just that easy.

>>53861284
wow you are amazing and when the thing about creating universes happened and the thing about turning water into wine

>>53861326
>The game already implies Leon is stronger than the other champions.
galartard headcanon
He is probably not even stronger than Mustard (Mustard certainly has a better team + a legendary)

Anime also protected him by having all major fights be set in Galar and restricting everyone to 1 gimmick. That made him look better than he is.
For example:
- if Leon fought Lance 1v1 outside Galar and Lance had a Mega Gyarados - Leon loses. We saw that base Charizard wasnt meaningfully stronger than base Gyarados.
- if Leon fights Ash/Cynthia/Steven outside Galar - he loses
- if any Leon fights 2-gimmick Cynthia - he loses
etc.

>>53861356
It's interesting that Cynthia being the best champion continues to cause so much seethe 16+ years later ;)

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She lives in so many heads rent free it's amazing

The board would be unusable for weeks if Iris swept Diantha.
Damn I wish it happened

>>53861366
I can't believe there are still people as dense as you when the anime literally directly called out your line of thinking with the play by play of the Leon vs Alain fight.

>>53861284
Leon confirmed by master ex and main line games as the strongest champion the best feats Cyntia are the normal champion in the anime he beat flinth barely and he couldn't even defeat Catleya

>53861389
ESL moment

>>53861389
You must have native or fluent proficiency in English to use this board

>>53861310
There’s ways to even make shilling feel coherent and natural from a writing standpoint. They fucked up on many fronts here.

>>53861369
No one gives a shit about who's the best except you fags and Pokéani.

>>53861366
lance used a mechanic that increases much more power than the mega and you know that he then proceeded to destroy diantha who defeated lance without much problem while cyntia can't even handle iris

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>>53861389
>Leon confirmed by master ex
Thats funny actually
in Masters Leon-Gloria-Victor lost to Hop-Marnie-Bede
Plus pic related.
Masters dropped him when SV came out

>>53861387
Thats a cope, Alain was just trash.
without dynamax Leon couldnt even beat Raihan, much less champions.

>>53861389
>Masters Ex

Wasn’t there a whole event centered around Red and Cynthia and how they’re the strongest? Leon is an afterthought at that point.

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>>53861410
>Wasn’t there a whole event centered around Red and Cynthia and how they’re the strongest?
cute couple

>>53861401
Dude at least improve your TOEFL score to like, 80 or something before posting

>>53861403
Eternatus also isn't nearly as powerful as Giratina in lore

>>53861398
You're talking about an anime that kept its protagonist 10 years old for over 2 decades. There is literally no feasible way to condense as much story as had transpired into less than 1 year of his life. If you expected standards, it should certainly not be this late. Keep in mind that around the halfway point they had Ash lose in Unova's league to a 5 member team. His opponent literally forgot to bring a 6th teammate and Ash still lost to him. It's just a soulless marketing vehicle, "coherent and natural" you might only find by coincidence.

>>53861405
You can literally use that argument to dismiss anyone that Leon beat.
>[Person that lost to Leon] was just trash

>>53861403
>lost to Hop-Marnie-Bede
Imagine losing to an edgy groomed twink, a gremlin and a brown retard

>>53861428
From this perspective then everything from the anime is invalid because it’s got no real substance and thought out into it.

Sadly it’s the continuity most are exposed to cause it’s easier to consume. And it stirs shit like the topic at hand.

There is a certain drawing with a female team neo plasma grunt and her Seviper defeating Cynthia and I expect one of you freaks to have it because my friend doesn't and he wants it pls post it thanks

>>53861389
>Beating Sinnoh Elite Four (which all the Champions did anyways)
>Not being able to take down Caitlin within in a three minutes time ratio or causing severe. damage.
>Defeating Iris only after using a gimmick while the latter didn't
>Losing to Lucario despite it already taking damage from Dynakiss

That's Garchomps "feats"

>>53861225
I think he makes sense in the anime. His backstory implies he has to learn and grow just like everyone else to get where he was.
In the games it's retarded though. He's just a magical prodigy who literally has never lost since he picked up a PokeBall. The game keeps reiterating that he has literally never lost. They have to write around him in the DLC by saying he never actually fought Mustard cause he got lost on his way to battle him, explaining how Mustard be simultaneously be stronger than him even though Leon never lost to him.

>>53862103
Garchomps feats are being the strongest ace in the anime aside from Pikachu.
And staying undefeated in its strongest form, unlike every other champions ace.

>Leonpajeets STILL seething about Cynthia despite their supposed "canon" superiority
Rent free until the end of time.

>>53862174
leonjeets are a dying breed nowadays, their false king became irrelevant when he jobbed to Ash + got replaced by Pageeta/Nemona

>>53862187
Nemona is pretty much made for wank/hype since even by the end she alludes to not using her strongest team, where by the end of the other games you've beaten the other champions at their best.

>>53862155
Wow, an undefeated record of one (1) Pokemon...... I kneel Cynthia-sama...... you really are the strongest after all......

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>>53862239
>Wow, an undefeated record of one (1) Pokemon
Ash the MC never got to beat it and barely won against the base version
Same Ash who rekt Mega-Metagross and dynamax Charizard

>I kneel Cynthia-sama...... you really are the strongest after all......
Now you're getting it

>>53861145
>Iris is widely disliked and her rise to Champion in the anime was rather iffy
>Cynthia is widely liked and arguably the most popular Champion
>Iris is the newfag Champion and at the bottom of the rankings therefore you can arguably argue she's the weakest
>Cynthia's widely considered the strongest Champion and number 2 in the rankings
I think a Cynthia sweep wouldn't have caused as much butthurt had it been a proper episode. Keypoint there, since the biggest reasons that episode caused so much butthurt were:
>90% of the battle was off-screen so the sweep happened just because and what little was show was a slideshow
>The sweep was just TWO Pokemon
>The battle was skipped because of a lost child plot
Otherwise? Yes, had Cynthia swept either Diantha or Iris off-screen like that people would have been butthurt too. Including Cynthiafags. Because believe or not the biggest reason one of the biggest reasons people disliked the M8 is Leon getting pushed an wanked to the detriment of everyone else. This wouldn't change no matter who you put on Leon's role.
Either way, I don't think the episode would have been so badly received had they shown the full battle or had Leon have used his full team to win but writing and animation hard please understand.

>>53862143
Leon had the building blocks in the anime for it to make full sense and acceptable WHY he is so damn powerful.

Rose finds him as a kid and basically grooms him into this unbeatable trainer. We see small flashbacks here and there of the intense training regime.

But no. He just plays with his Pokémon like other character in this franchise.

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>>53862273
it is basically confirmed that's part of what happened, but they also wanted to lean on the parallels with ash to basically have ash surpass the ultimate version of himself and become the strongest trainer

>>53862422
Problem is that the "parallels" suck balls.
>Leon
Groomed from day 1, became Champion day 1, always win everything.
>Ash
Absolute total shitter who took 6 leagues to win one and the one he won was a meme league on a backwards region and now somehow is capable of beating E4s and Champions with a team you count with one hand the amount of times they trained on-screen and where half the team is literally months old.
And don't tell me that was the point when the show loved the shove down everyone's throats that Ash and Leon were totally the same honest for realsies.
It's like the retarded Garchomp and Lucario have this oh so fated bond because... they were both eggmons they tried to cram on the Cynthia vs Ash battle at the last minute.
Everything has the depth of a puddle, even for pokemon anime standards it's awful.

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>>53862257
>Iris is widely disliked and her rise to Champion in the anime was rather iffy
>Iris is the newfag Champion and at the bottom of the rankings therefore you can arguably argue she's the weakest

Cope <3

>>53862155
>And staying undefeated in its strongest form, unlike every other champions ace.
Charizard has the feat of defeating another opponents ace using a gimmick while in it's base form. Can Cynthia say the same?

>>53861356
>she isn't just as easily sweepable as any of them despite having a varied diverse ;) team
Even easier in some cases honestly. She’s not retard-tier like Diantha, but Gamefreak actively made her AI worse than some of the previous trainers and she will deliberately attack into an immunity if you have it (i.e. Milotic will spam water into a dry skin mon like Toxicroak). I don’t know how she is in BDSP, but in the originals she definitely makes some of the more retarded plays. I think the meme of her being difficult mainly comes from how dogshit the vanilla DP dex is, especially in comparison to a really nicely optimized mon like Garchomp.

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>>53862518
Said opponent was ~E4 level (he lost faster than Flint did) - Cynthia & base Garchomp already defeated E4s many years ago in DP.

Against real opponents charizard either needed dynamax (Raihan, Lance) or lost 2v1 even with dynamax (Ash)

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>>53862518
>Leonpajeets so desperate that they seriously are trying to wank the victory against Alan as a meaningful feat
Go back to losing to another base ace.

>>53862551
She is difficult, relatively, because many players are known to have struggled with DPPt E4.
And also because the other champions are even easier

>>53862551
Cynthia was filtering people even harder in BDSP, and you do not have the excuse of "hurr you were being retarded children back then" considering how full of manchildren the pokemon fanbase is full of now, and that's despite forced amie making things easier than ever.
You people need to remember that the average Pokemon player is extremely retarded. Find the biggest retard on /vp/ and they're Ray Rizzo in comparison to the average Pokemon player, be it adult or child.

>>53862558
>>53862555

>Cynthia defeats Iris who's ranked lowered than Alain, the anime confirmed it was her first time using Mega Evolution and that Iris lacked a gimmick.

>Leon defeats Alain who's ranked higher than Iris with his base ace and while Alain's ace used a gimmick in the fight as well making it more even.

Cope and seethe.

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>>53862257
>Iris is widely disliked and her rise to Champion in the anime was rather iffy

There is no "rise to Champion". The anime made her a Champion just like that, people bitched about it and they're still coping thinking BW2 would never be adapted. Imagine seething over canon games.

>>53862505
>>53862594
I don't need to cope, nor am I seething, since I am simply stating facts. I have no horse in this race. And if you have a problem with what I said then you are ones who are coping and seething.

>>53862580
ironic coming from a buttblasted leonjeet

>>53862580
>ranked
>ranked
every time, kek

>>53862422

They needed to specifically emphasize on the Leon angle. He just sounds like he does this with everyone with talent. He even offered Ash. The argument here is Leon being ridiculously powerful and how that could be. Rose basically building him up to that, similar to how Lysander manipulated Alain, would’ve been fantastic.

Throw in lines from other Champion saying they’ve heard the rumors of his intense training. But someone like Cynthia or Diantha for example saying that they feel it’s excessive, that it doesn’t allow for one to enjoy life outside of training.

Which could’ve been doubled down by what Sonia said how she barely ever saw Leon again after Rose took him under his wing.

Leon’s whole identity is molded into becoming the ultimate trainer, and Rose succeeds…but at what cost?

Leon could’ve been the strongest and been an interesting character.

>>53862609
>no u

>>53862555
>erm Alain is actually just E4 level
what the fuck kind of cope-ass headcanon is this, to say nothing of the fact that leon "needing dynamax vs real opponents" doesnt apply to cynthia needing mega evolution to defeat iris??

Someone call Diantha ugly, so we can turn this into a mini-Audrey thread.

diantha is so fucking ugly

>>53863842
Obviously, sub-brained faggots would think the character based on the most beautiful woman ever born would be ugly.

>>53861284
That hype you’re talking about came from the games and was adapted into the anime

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>>53863957
forgot pic, of course

>>53863957
>character based on the most beautiful woman ever born
they did a terrible job then she looks like a glittered trashcan with lisa simpson hair

>>53863997
It's a crown braid dumbass, you would know if you'd ever touched a woman's hair

>>53861173
Wouldn't have had much backlash, people were already ridiculing the fact that Iris was being presented as someone supposedly strong enough to make it into that tournament to begin with.

>>53863962
Hype doesn’t equal power anon. And that hype was only within the confines of Galar in the games.

The anime mishandled this whole thing horribly.

>>53864010
>It's a crown braid
a very ugly crown braid the ugliest i've ever seen
>woman's hair
women are better when shaved disgusting hairyfag

>>53863991
kek is that some sewer goblin?

>>53861145
To be honest, Leon showed some pretty good strategies against Ash and would've most likely won if he wasn't playing with a handicap.

>>53864188
god this place is full of underaged retards now no wonder why there's so many people pretending to stan leon itt

>>53864159
I feel people were mad at Iris becoming a champion because it meant that she achieved more than all of Ash's companions except for maybe Brock.

>>53864166
Raihan was rumored to be capable of being the Champion of any other league and can’t beat Leon who was revealed to be undefeated. How is that not power scaling again?

>>53862747
What you're describing here is pretty much exactly the character of Mizuki from Aikatsu, which aired right next to Pokemon during XY and a lot of viewers from that era is familiar with.

Leon was Mizuki stuck permanently in episode 1.

Seriously, watch Aikatsu if you want to see Leon done right.

>>53864226
People were mad about Iris becoming a champion because it made no sense.
Dawn got inches away from fulfilling her actual life's goal in just one series and you never really see anyone complain about THAT even though that's literally more than any other companion did, including Ash. It's about presentation, not "feats" you're just told happened offscreen

>>53864293
Rumored. Yet it didn’t happen. The games knew how to handle the topic and leave it open ended.

The anime just gave us the strongest guy ever in the most halfassed manner possible and pissed everyone off.

>>53863262
watch the show, RETARD
Alain did worse than Flint against the exact same opponent, that makes him E4 level

>>53861145
Leon still making Cnythiafags seethe
Best champ.

>>53864293
>"rumor"
>reality = Raihan cant even beat Melony
Galar wank is incredibly retarded, it doesnt exist in the games and in the anime it was propped up by forcing everyone to fight in Galar to give dynamax users an advantage - even then Leon still lost in the end, even with two dynamaxes

>>53861145
>Anime = Leon 2v6s Diantha
>>53861236
>Games = Cynthia 2v6s Leon

the Pecking Order.

>>53861145
Some of the backlash also came from Chole filler/CotD filler,Diantha new fans being pissed, and mistranslations making Leon sound condescending.

If nothing else, Leon's definitely the champion with the worst fashion sense

realistically Leon > Cynthia > Steven > Ash > Lance > Alain > Iris > Diantha but the anime didn't care

>>53864389
The Koharu filler was received better than pretty much the entire tournament because it was just a comfy sol episode and not some aggressively retarded Leonwank.
It was the clipshows people really hated, and people always hate clipshows.

>>53861145
This thread again? Seriously?

This site has nothing to offer anybody. There is no quality content here you cannot get more quickly and efficiently elsewhere. This is an addiction which reduces your productivity, attention span, and free time. You are becoming more bitter, narrow minded, haughty, and old. Leave now and block this site. There is nothing here but slow, lonely suicide.

People do not have arguments here. Posters do not engage one another on key points, they nitpick with greentext and mock each other. Nobody is interested in the truth; people are battling for fleeting moments of superiority. Active commenters are loud jackasses who tumble into one internet fight after another, anxiously keeping ten tabs open to ensure they keep the last word in all of them. An insightful post is one in ten thousand, and no matter how hard you filter this place you are still searching for diamonds in a garbage dump.

This place is not making you happy. You are not having fun. You are not gathering stories to tell, learning, or growing as a person. Instead you chuckle every thirty minutes and are occasionally spurred to masturbation by libidinal posts or pictures. You are addicted to readily available information and pressure free social interaction. This place is slowly poisoning you with misogyny, narcissism, a false dichotomy surrounding normalfags, and insecurity.

I'm not telling you to be yourself. I'm not telling you to go outside. I'm not even telling you to make friends. Just leave 4chan. Do anything else.

>>53864401
with the 1 gimmick restriction:
Leon > Ash > Cynthia > Steven > Diantha > Lance > Iris > Alain

without it:
Ash > Cynthia > Leon > Steven > Diantha > Lance > Iris > Alain

>>53862213
I found it weird that Nemona got desperate enough to groom some random kid to potentiality fight her instead of just leaving Paldea to fight champions or something.

>>53864389
>>53864389
>and mistranslations making Leon sound condescending.
You are full of bullshit, nigga.
https://twitter.com/anipoke_PR/status/1563110505840926722
https://twitter.com/anipoke_PR/status/1563115290162249728
Nips were SEETHING at the "haha I was just lucky today you nearly got me XD" they had Leon spout.
You can still scroll down and see how everyone was upset at the episode.
There was no mistranslation at all.

>>53864432
Based nips hating the poojeet

>>53864430
The games have been trying really hard to avoid any meaningful connection between the regions. Making them as standalone as possible outside of random off-handed mentions.
Notice how we've gone two generations so far without a single previous games character appearance or cameo.

>>53864434
It's some seriously tone-deaf as fuck shit.
They tried to make it look like he's just being sporting but instead he just sounds utterly condescending.
I really wish I could have some of whatever the pokeani writers had while writing the M8 because it must really be some extremely high quality shit.

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>>53864437
>he just sounds utterly condescending.
He did it to Ash too

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>>53864432
kek
Based nips

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>>53864319
>Dawn got inches away from fulfilling her actual life's goal in just one series

But she didn't cope.

>People were mad about Iris becoming a champion because it made no sense.

Strong admiration for mommy Cynthia made her want to achieve the title herself and be just as great as Cynthia is. Watch the show.

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>>53864432
Oops my mistake that's even worse lol.

>>53864437
It wasn’t the stuff Shudo was on apparently.

>>53864438
I would unironically actually like Leon if he was like that all the time. A cocky as fuck smarmy shit who's hot shit and he knows it and is bored as shit at the top and only selfishly cares for his own waku waku. And on the way to getting as strong as he got he discarded everyone and everything. Something like what >>53862747 mentioned.
Problem is that he's not, instead they portray him as this generic good two shoes who everyone loves just because and is that strong just because. There's literally zero other angles to go about him. He's got the depth of a puddle character wise, which is saying something considering this is Pokemon character writing.

>>53864437
>Cynthiafags crying the anime will never confirm their head canon no matter how much they scream "not defeated at full power" shit.

Just isn't enough huh?

>>53864351
Diantha did worse than either Flint or Alain, guess that makes them both Champion-level then

>>53861173
>>53864159
Remember when Ash almost beat Diantha before beating Wulfric?
>>53861225
What I hate about him is his personality.
>>53862155
>Garchomps feats are being the strongest ace in the anime aside from Pikachu.
That's Darkrai

>>53864463
>Diantha did worse than either Flint or Alain
No she didnt you retard.
She pushed back 1 Gmax charizard attack, which is already miles better than anything Flint or Alain ever did

Alain was literally showing losing faster than Flint did. He needs his Mega just to be on E4 level

>>53864463
Mathematically, Diantha and Alain did the same against Leon.
EXCEPT with the key difference that Diantha defeated the gorilla and had the lizard mememax and even got a good hit in and pushed back once. Neither Alan nor Flint managed anything of the sort.
And I could be misremembering but the little we saw about Flint vs Leon was just a 1vs1.
Learn to look past just the raw numbers, dumb nigger.

>>53864466
>Darkrai
Tobias admitted that Gibles (!) DM was a threat to it. Darkrai was just a frail legendary with sleep hax

>>53864466
Yea I'm not an Irisfag but people bitching about her being their is out of pure spite. Diantha deserved even less there to be there and Alder showed nothing promising when he did have a chance to shine. It's better going with the simple explanation that they wanted all current game Champions there. Which Diantha and Iris are rather than power scaling faggotry feats which none of them have anyways besides being Champion.

>>53864471
>Alain was literally showing losing faster than Flint did. He needs his Mega just to be on E4 level

Literally this. Alain defeated Malva and failed to defeat Seibold in the ME, Specials. Both being battles using his Zard X.

>>53864476
>Mathematically, Diantha and Alain did the same against Leon.
>EXCEPT with the key difference that Diantha defeated the gorilla and had the lizard mememax and even got a good hit in and pushed back once. Neither Alan nor Flint managed anything of the sort.
>And I could be misremembering but the little we saw about Flint vs Leon was just a 1vs1.
>Learn to look past just the raw numbers, dumb nigger.

I love when glasses of Hellman Mayo use "nigger" like it's an attempt at calling somebody unintelligent just because they're on 4Chan and can avoid getting the shit beat out of them because even then it's unearned arrogance. You'd think being white you'd have enough wherewithal to understand that Diantha's five Pokemon still was unable to take down the gorilla including using one of the most powerful Fire Type attacks (Fire Blast) while Alain's Flare Blitz knocked it out despite it barely taking damage against his first Pokemon. But you're claiming the other anon isn't "looking beyond numbers".

Cyntia can't even beat Iris without Mega and it's even confirmed that it wasn't easy. Leon destroys Alan, who is stronger than Iris.

>>53864495
And if Diantha had sent Gardevoir from the get-go she'd have gotten rid of the meme gorilla but we cannot have that because otherwise Leon-sama would have looked bad and weak and we need Diantha to look and be super retarded and weak to "hype him up" for the final battle.
Kill yourself nigger.

>>53864509
So you admit it then? Base Charizard could take down maybe five of Champion Diantha's Pokemon? Concession granted. Thanks

>>53864507
>and it's even confirmed that it wasn't easy.
https://archive.palanq.win/vp/thread/51009923/#51011182
Confirmed by who? By the shitty mistranslated subs? lol

>>53864513
>Gets proven wrong
>Changes the argument to pretend he didnt
Keep coping and seething, nigger.

>>53864507
Leon has no hope of beating 2 gimmick Cynthia, its simple math and its not in his favor. Their respective Ash fights proved it.
He can win if she is restricted.

>Alan, who is stronger than Iris.
champion-level > E4-level

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>>53864442

>>53864540
I'll never be able to understand how they managed to take a once in a lifetime dream situation like a tournament between all the Champions and turn it into such a mess.
It's genuinely depressing.

>>53864526
>>53864526
anon is confirmed that show me what the true subs say according to you

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>Leon got heavily pushed
>nips hated all his epsiodes
based

>>53864548
In english, pablito.

>>53864532
iris did not fight greninja ash or two major league legends like alan

>>53864551
I'm glad that people are waking up at how trash the M8 was now that the honeymoon period is ending.

>>53864532
But Leon fought Ash and only lost to him after he used four gimmicks to his two. Cynthia and Ash were both restricted to the same amount. And when Cynthia did use her other gimmick it tied with a base mon for a short period of time.

What data are we using that Leon stands no chance?

>Alainfags still coping this hard

>>53864548
Por favor, mejora tu inglés antes de publicar en 4chan.org/vp/, gracias.

>>53864526
So then what the subs actually say then? Since you're fluent in the Japanese? The dub also translated it exactly like that and called the fight close.

What was the original Japanese wording saying?

>>53864566
are you fluent in the English? so then why the responding on 4chan?

>>53864558
your math is off
>Ash Gimmicks required to beat Leon = 3
>Ash Gimmicks required to beat just DynaKiss = 2 (twice on Lucario)
>Ash Gimmicks required to beat DynaKiss + MegaChomp together = above 3, likely all 4

>>53864566
>So then what the subs actually say then? Since you're fluent in the Japanese?
>What was the original Japanese wording saying?
Anon, are you blind or what? Everything is right there on the picture on the post.

> The dub also translated it exactly like that and called the fight close.
>Dub
LMAO.

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>>53864558
>And when Cynthia did use her other gimmick it tied with a base mon for a short period of time.
Are people still trying to pretend that Cynthia going Mega was not complete and absolute overkill?

>>53864605
Anon isn't blind, his English reading skills are abysmal, amigo

>>53864540
>aside from the episode where Ash wins that clearly just had people voting 1 in the hype of the moment, the 5 most popular episodes in the tournament were Iris VS Cynthia, Ash VS Steven, part 1 and 2 (but not 3) of Ash VS Cynthia... and the random Koharu filler they threw into the middle

Iris only fought a fraction of Cynthias full power (no Togekiss, no Spiritomb, no 2 gimmicks) and still couldnt even meaningfully damage Garchomp

this cope is sad

>>53864573
I think what's most embarrassing is that Leon despite being a ***MASTER OF DYNAMAX*** got his Dynamaxed rabbit oneshot by Pikachu who had Dynamaxed for the second time in his entire life.

>>53864617
>the 5 most popular episodes in the tournament
>VS Cynthia
>VS Steven
>VS Cynthia
the best champions

>>53864624
Don't forget that she needed to rely on luckhax too.

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>>53864624

>>53864557
All the votes in >>53864540 were made immediately after the episode aired. It's not nips looking back on the tournament and saying "you know, in hindsight it was actually pretty shit", it's nips saying "this episode was shit" immediately after watching it live. For almost every episode in the entire fucking tournament.

I fucking wish we had ratings like that for the Alola League because everyone were shitting on that week out and week in as it was airing too, no matter how much SMtards try to rewrite history by saying it was totally super well received.

>>53864641
Nah I'm talking about the discussion here, not the nip ratings.

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>>53864627
Yeah that was sad
Leon never really demonstated this supposed "dynamax mastery"

>>53864651
Everyone shat on the M8 here too.

>>53864655
To be fair, that was a completely hack move.
They made such a big deal about how the rabbit could counter Pikachu with Libero by changing into ground type just for nothing to come out of it.
Smarter writers would have made it a Lucario vs Cinderace match as a callback to the friendship of Lucario with Goh's rabbit instead of having Lucario job as badly as it did.

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>>53864613
If this didn’t happen when it was in its base form and it gave even a hint that that it could be Haxorus before mega evolving then yes we would.

>M8 still gets threads
>new anime doesnt

Its over

>Irisfags were ESL all along
Explains a lot.

>>53864624
> (no Togekiss, no Spiritomb, no 2 gimmicks

>Spirtomb

Didn’t even use actual “power” in terms of strength but instead spammed Hypnosis and when that did nothing used Destiny Bond.

>Togekiss/second gimmick

Said Dynakiss couldn’t even take out Mega Lucario even after Dynamaxing and still left it with enough stamina until the point where it could take out her strongest mon despite Garchomp only getting hit once by the duck.

What full power? It sounds like Cynthia just got lucky she got the only opponent stupid enough not to bring a gimmick.

I'm still mad that Iris straight up let herself lose. Telling her Dragonite to just fly right into the Draco Meteor like that would have any outcome other than assisted suicide was so fucking stupid.

>>53864698
The funniest is that she lost exactly the same way she lost to Ash. She learned absolutely nothing from that battle.

>>53864634
>Horn Drill

Bad!!!!

>Destiny Bond


Super strong!!!

Neither require any skill to pull the move off besides the Pokémon learning it.

>>53864698
We're all mad dude, the masters 128 was a mistake and not a single battle was well written that was believable to even 10 year olds, much less the ESL shitters who made this thread to flamewar

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>>53864689
>Didn’t even use actual “power” in terms of strength but instead spammed Hypnosis and when that did nothing used Destiny Bond.
Problem ? It took out THREE of Ashes (the winners) pokemon, including Pikachu himself

>Said Dynakiss couldn’t even take out Mega Lucario
lies, it was blatantly shown overpowering a fresh Mega Lucario (the winners second strongest pokemon) at first, which is why the Aura power-up/gimmick was needed on top of the Mega to save Lucarios ass.

>>53864698
I don’t think Iris Dragonite battled Garchomp.

>>53864702
>>Horn Drill
Accuracy 30%
>>Destiny Bond
Accuracy —%

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>>53864689
>>53864702
>Cynthia is skill-less because she used Destiny Bond but Iris is a master strategist for using Horn Drill
lmao'ing at Irispedos hypocrisy
Forever coping and forever seething and forever shamelessly lying.

>>53864709
> Problem ? It took out THREE of Ashes (the winners) pokemon, including Pikachu himself

That still isn’t using pure strength. It’s strategy but that’s not power. In fact it spammed a single move. Destiny Bond is just much as a hack as Horn Drill. Even worse because Cynthia hacked Pikachu’s lost and still LOST despite thinking she was being clever.

> which is why the Aura power-up/gimmick was needed on top of the Mega to save Lucarios ass.

You mean the same Aura Ash used to defeat Mr Rime and predict his movements yet somehow Leon handled it without needing a gimmick. What’s ultra powerful Garchomp’s excuse?

Why do Irisfags try to downplay Cynthia so much?
If Cynthia's truly so weak like they try to desperately push, then what does that say about Iris who handily lost to her?

>>53864712
Which of her pokemon flew/jumped head first into the meteor? I probably got it wrong, but for some reason I remember Dragonite being the cannon fodder.

Spiritomb and Togekiss were both based <3

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>>53864613
It wasn't. Cynthia barely beat Iris even with Mega Garchomp.

>>53864720
>Legit called Iris a dumbass deserving to lose for not having a gimmick

>Called an Irisfag.

Just say you’re still coping over a battle and fight that happened a year ago. Cynthia won against an opponent not using a gimmick and when she finally did fight a smart one using it she lost.

>>53864723
>>53864689
>It's not unga bunga so it doesn't count!
???
>>53864723
>yet somehow Leon handled it without needing a gimmick
Instead it needed parahax and super effective moves which Cynthia was conveniently not allowed to have lol.

>>53864738
Retardbro...
>>53864526

>>53864726
>Why do Irisfags try to downplay Cynthia so much?
Pedos unironically hate adult female characters

>>53864741
> Instead it needed parahax and super effective moves which Cynthia was conveniently not allowed to have lol.

Irrelevant cope you butthurt Cynthiafag. That Iris OR Ash battle did no favors for you queen. Bad enough before that her last time being seen was tying with an Elite Four member from shit Unova and shit Axew knocking her ace to the ground.

Bow to your king Leon.

>>53864723
>You mean the same Aura Ash used to defeat Mr Rime and predict his movements
no, that was just Lucario himself using his own ura sensing as any lucario always does

Ash and his magical powers never powered-up Lucario against Leon. He only did it vs Raihan and Cynthia
Which hypes them both up

>>53864743
>still pretending to know Japanese and trying to push wrong translation narrative
This is sad.

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>Iris had no gimmick
Yet another day of disproving Irispedos shameless lies.
Yet another day of seeing them coping and seething.

>>53864755
> no, that was just Lucario himself using his own ura sensing as any lucario always does

Ash and his magical powers never powered-up Lucario against Leon. He only did it vs Raihan and Cynthia
Which hypes them both up

Post be dialogue confirming this.

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>>53864754
>Bow to your king Leon.
>t.

>>53864757
I accept your concession.

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>>53864761

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>>53864761
He only did pic related vs Raihan and Cynthia

Irisfags do this to themselves all the time. Who gives a shit? Cynthiafags will come up with ever cope in the world from Iris mind fucking and controlling Haxorus to power him and that’s why Cynthia Mega Evolved to keep it “fair” to saying that Cynthia essentially swept Iris like Leon did Alain. None of this is true and it was confirmed in the next episode.

The fact all they can spam is

>Ace never defeated with full power
>Who cares Garchomp won anyway
>Cynthia would’ve won win anyway

Without explaining any further is proof enough they know their arguments are shit. It’s just trolling. The anime literally went out of their way to confirm Iris almost won and not doing that with Alain, Steven or Lance. Enjoy your win in peace.

>>53864754
>ONLY UNGA BUNGA COUNTS
>W-Well that counts because it makes Cynthia look bad!
lol
You're the only one coping and butthurt here.

>>53864754
Mega Garchomp is canonically slightly stronger than base Haxorus, thats pretty sad. Garchomp does have an eye raising tack record to be fair.

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Ash in Paldea when?

>>53864772
>The anime literally went out of their way to confirm Iris almost won
But that's objectively wrong.

>All Irisfags have to make themselves feel better is mistranslations
LMAO.

Irisfags should be fighting Alainfags, not Cynthiafags

its Alainfags who claim he is > Iris because of muh ranks, even though Alain did worse than Flint (and also isnt even a champion)

>>53864784
>Tells a Japanese person what a text is saying.
I speak Japanese. Stay in your lane you white westerner and cope somewhere else.

>>53864794
>It's the ESL who got butthurt about being called nigger
Okay honey.

>>53861236
https://urlebird.com/video/cynthia-leon-who-makes-the-semi-music-blackwhite-kyurem-7232421818966101250/ so fucking based

>ESL
>Pedos
>Liars
>Hypocrites
>Two faced
The absolute state of Irisfags.

>>53864778
>Defeated Sinnoh Elite Four (not impressive a Champion has to defeat their regional Elite Four to become Champion)

>Defeated Paul who was a newb at the time and using a new team in Sinnoh.

>Failed to defeat Caitlin despite being a higher rank than her and having ample time to do so. Instead gets tossed around and Draco Meteor gets countered by a non stab Thunderbolt with Caitlin’s ace appearing not that injured.

>Axew somehow tanking a Dragon Rush and Draco Meteor from Garchomp and landing a Giga Impact which Cynthia admits does massive damage.

>Defeat Haxorus only after its strongest move Draco Meteor failed in base form so it uses it again after Mega Evolving but not right before it’s improved Dragon Claw matches with a once again non STAB Psycho Cut

>Loses to Mega Lucario despite only taking one hit from the duck and Lucario fighting Dynakiss.

Where are these strongest Champion accusations coming from?

>>53864794
Prove it then.

Translate this short passage/video for us dumb waito piggus

https://youtube.com/shorts/3L7uObXRr2E?feature=share7

>>53864793
>Irisfags should be fighting Alainfags, not Cynthiafags
dis

>>53864804
kek

>>53864823
Wouldn’t it be better for you to translate what the text is actually saying if it’s not saying Iris almost won? Instead of diverting the attention and asking anon to translate a random video?

>>53864818
>strongest Champion accusations
Cynthia is only the strongest champion (team-wise) in the games.

In Masters its Cynthia ~ Red

in anime its Ash > Cynthia > Leon (without gimmick restrictions)

>>53864831
No, I want anon to prove his fluency (I'm not the guy who he responded to at first, I'm another guy reading this) by fully transliterating a very brief, and unrelated video in casual Japanese (it's less than 30 seconds!). If he can claim actual fluency a video this trivial shouldn't be hard to decipher and communicate to us either if the captions aren't

>>53864839
> in anime its Ash > Cynthia > Leon (without gimmick restrictions)

Based on what exactly? Read the list I just gave you and tell me why she deserves to be second? I’ll be waiting.

>>53864840
Right but it concerning and revolving around the translated text of if the anime confirmed Iris won or not. If you’re fluent in Japanese, do you mind telling us?

>>53864818
It also got stalemated by a Meowth.

Adamant is so pathetic. Imagine arguing about being fluent in Japanese and then picking and choosing what you want to translate depending on what you like.

It's really just DS kiddies being astroturfing autists about Cynthia's power level while seething about the new games. in 20 years you will have Switch kiddies astroturfing the internet too, but hopefully your 40 to 50 year old ass will be doing better things than discussing it

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>>53864851
Yea it’s Dragon Claw is just shit in general. Cynthia needs to teach it a new move.

>>53864844
It was already posted above you
>>53864573 >>53864769
-Leon fought a weaker Lucario than Cynthia (and Raihan) did
-Leon only has 1 gimmick, Cynthia has 2
Based on that 2 gimmick Cynthia >= Leon

And of course she is also better when there is no powerspot. Megas work anywhere.
Leons gimmick situation is pretty poor. He only has 1, its geo-restricted and it failed twice vs Pikachu

>>53864863
>So nothing actually showed on the show


Thanks for saving us some time.

>>53864335
Because he wanted to beat Leon but never could

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>>53861225
Leon was just the seasonal Charizard shill and has already been replaced by a new one.

>>53861386
Thinking Iris would have swept Gardevoir, haha, its a mon popularity contest, that's why they did Charizard vs Gardevoir. Iris would have lost just like Lance did.

>>53864865
Your concession is accepted

>showed on the show
Kek, in the show Leon had 3 losses (Sonia, Ash, eternatus) in 1 season
Cynthia had 1 loss in 3 seasons (DP, BW, JN)

And she ended ashnime with an undefeated MegaChomp

>>53864871
>Leon was just the seasonal Charizard shil
this

>>53864293
Yea, gamefreak explicitly put that in the game on his league card, which is meant to provide more info and insight on the character.

Only anime Raihan was in the champion tier. Game Raihan is a joke, he cant beat Melony.
Rumors do not matter

>The champions in other regions are weaker than both Raihan and Melony
Why did Gamefreak have to do the other regions like that

To be honest im having more of a problem with cynthia spamming either dragon claw or draco meteor to overpower her opponents rather than coming up with any actual strategy when it comes to her garchomp. Her game counterpart had coverage moves as well as sword dances. This garchomp feels like a dud in comparison. Only time this garchomp looked strong was in DP tanking super effective blizzards

>>53864917
>Only time this garchomp looked strong was in DP tanking super effective blizzards
who was that against?

>>53864917
Garchomp is the biggest tank of all the champion aces
in BW it tanked hits from 3 legendaries

>>53864963
Pauls weevile spamming blizzard

>>53864965
Thats what i hate about the show is the inconsistency it tanked hits from 3 legendaries in bw. But nearly goes down to a stab meteor assault and goes down to reversal which it should have overpowered if it had any supereffective ground moves.

>>53864871
If it was a popularity contest why did Cynthia end up being ranked less than the (allegedly) unpopular Leon and lost on screen before he did despite this being her generation as well? Are you saying popularity only got her a win in the first round and she got thrown away?

>>53865060
Cynthia is superior to Leon
>>53864863 >>53864875

>ranked
lmao

>>53865050
>But nearly goes down to a stab meteor assault
>nearly goes down
Nope, it was good enough to fight Lucario after

>to reversal
the Lucario is a shillmon ace and was powered-up twice >>53864769

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>>53861437
lol calling Marnie a gremlin

>>53865060
>If it was a popularity contest why did Cynthia end up being ranked less than the (allegedly) unpopular Leon
Charizard, it really is that simple

>>53864367
Its gimmick on gimmick so it doesn't matter where they are since the fight is still even

>>53865187
So Cynthia kneels to Leon’s Charizard? Good boy.

>>53864226
Id argue that its more that it made no sense since fuck all was implied that she wanted to go that route to begin with and on top of that, its a huge retcon from her going after Rayquaza from her special after best wishes ended. shame that the mega evolution specials didn’t include her as that would have been a great segway to include her interacting with Zinnia and steven in the mega Rayquaza episode.

>>53865351
> Id argue that its more that it made no sense since fuck all was implied that she wanted to go that route

Couldn’t it be she liked battling, needed to evolve Axew and enjoyed tournaments? Pretty much everything we saw in BW.

Ash wants to be a Pokémon Master which isn’t a Champion but he became one along the way. Same thing.

>>53861356
I can attest to this. Literally exactly how I handled Cynthia during my Platinum run last year lmao. Didn't even plan for it either, totally improvised

Fucking 2023 and you autists are still denying that the final boss of the anime is the strongest trainer jesus fuck

>>53861298
I'll always laugh at people having mental breakdown over Lance's three Dragonites because they just out themselves as nu-Pokemon fanboys.
Dragonite through first two games was consistently depicted as extremely rare (You either get into semi-illegal things to get it, have it handed down to you by elder of Dragon clan or find in single pond next to village where said clan's living) and difficult to train Pokemon and Lance got not one, not two but three of these under his command.
It may be questionable gameplay-wise, but purely from narrative point of view Lance having multiple of extremely rare, difficult to use and extremely powerful Pokemon is impressive as fuck.

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>>53865326
>0 knockouts in the finals
>strongest ace
Ashs charizard would never
KWAB

>>53865596
>the final boss of the anime
Misty?
or MegaChomp, since Ash never even beat that

>the strongest trainer
The strongest trainer is Ash

>>53865713
this
Pikachu > Garchomp > Metagross/Charizard

>>53865596
He is.

He was just handled like shit.

Ash made it clear Leon needs the opponent restricted to 1 power-up to be the "strongest". And to have dynamax too
Basically exposed him

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>>53861162
>Turbowank for her is expected
You're god damn right I wank for Cynthia

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>>53866005
good boy

>>53861145
>diantha is shit just like in the games
seems pretty much accurate to me what's to complain about?

>>53866022
So what does that make Lance?

>>53866022
Leon, FUCK LEON

>>53864432
Reminds me of Baki defeateing Ali Jr and Sukune in an instant with a single hit and then after the battle he's "he was really strong, if I hadn't 1-shot him, then maybe he could've won"

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>>53866015
I want to brush her hair

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Honestly I don't get why people dislike Leon
He was a fun character and I feel the only reason people may dislike him is simply because he ruins their powerlevel headcanons

>>53866090
He was just presented horribly. That’s why. They took the wrong angle with him.

I agree he can be a fun character.

>>53866142
>He was just presented horribly
Was he? he was a humble, battle loving badass
He was basically presented as an adult Ash (and characters would often remark how much he resembles Ash and how much they are alike)

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>>53866154
>resembles TrASH i hate him more now
Im so glad we got Liko now. In before seething Ash hater. I loved OS Ash who had a personality nu ash is a souless faggot who fucks his pikachu

>>53864557
It's because it was thinly veiled jerking off festival for characters that never really did anything noticeable in anime but are popular in merchandise.
Lance? Cynthia? Fucking Steven and Diantha? With maybe Cynthia as exception they were do-nothing duds in anime. At least Negrori was main character in BW, even if her existence was just to yell "LOOK, IT'S LIKE IN THE GAEMZ!".
If they really wanted to make a hype final tournament for last arc of anime, they should focus on making it nostalgia bait for anime. Give us Gary, Tobias, the kid from BW, Kukui, Goddamn PAUL. They were final bosses of their respective arcs and culminations of whatever Ash was doing there, not some literally whos like Negrorita and Steven.

>>53866090
>Honestly I don't get why people dislike Leon
read this thread

also - pajeet, no one likes them irl too

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>>53864557
We were calling it shit basically from the moment it started, what fucking honeymoon period are you talking about

>>53866205
>Negrori
>Negrorita
Who the fuck are you talking about

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Hi, I'm from /vpwt/, please keep your schizos out of our thread pls and thank you. We don't care about the half baked garbage that was the masters 8 or Leon in here leave us and our thread alone.

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>>53866223
How many black lolis were relevant in M8?
I forget Bianca's damn name and "Negrori" is pretty fitting.

>>53866237
Iris's* fuck.
You can figure out that I don't care about her.

>>53861225
I don't even like Leon but he makes plenty of sense

>lives in a region that treats battles like a televised sport more so than any other region
>judging by all the sponsorships, treats battles as his full time career (as opposed to being an actor or running around looking for myths)
>actually well balanced team with strong Pokemon and no duds (Cynthia has this too though)

If anything it's Cynthia is the one that never had meaningful reason to be strong, but obviously the point is she's mysterious.

I never understood why people get so salty about Leon. Like, do you not expect the guy who gets paid to do this as his job is better at it than the ones who are Champion + another thing?

>>53866237
>>53866242
For someone who doesn't care you've made a considerable effort to come up with a way of shoehorning the word nigger into her name. Also, she was a main character in the show, so do you just not like the show? If so then why are you even here?

>>53866255
>Be on 4chan
>Get mental breakdown over "nigger".

Lol, lmao even.
Also yes, sometimes I forget about things like name of random character from random cartoon. Not sure about you but I have better things to do and enjoy than 24/7 thinking about Pokemon.

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>>53866205
> was main character in BW, even if her existence was just to yell "LOOK, IT'S LIKE IN THE GAEMZ!".

Cope <3

>>53866253
I was fike with him when the games came out because i just assumed he was an unbeatable trainer in the galar regiin not the whole world which is fine cause technically all champions are undefeated in their own region. Its when they made him the world champion for shilling purposes that made it annoying because it downplays all other regions and their accomplishments with prople forgetting the first PWT happened in bw2 and in that all champions were around equal. The anime jumped the shark with him too much.

>>53866277
She's literally there just because other options for Unova champion were less attractive or unavailable. She's the fucking token nigger, a filler.

>>53866272
Different anon but please. You spending your Saturday on 4Chan saying the N word because it’s your only space to get it out without getting your face caved in

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>>53866281
Cope <3

>>53866090
>the only reason people may dislike him is simply because he ruins their powerlevel headcanons

That and because he is the champion of the dexcut game and uses Charizard.

Leonfags somehow act like he won the tournament. He lost, Ash was stronger
Before that some of them were sure Ash wouldnt win (making Leon special and undefeated) and seems that cope is still going

Anime Leon is on the same standing as Cynthia and Steven, who also only lost to Ash directly
They even showed Leon losing to Sonia too, meaning his "undefeated" streak was a lie

>>53866804
We already knew Sonia is the strongest trainer but quit full time battling to pursue a career in shota hunting try to keep up

>>53864566
>>53864794
>>53864823
>>53866896
guy who claims to be fluent in Japanese: can you mind translating this then? It's only one paragraph

>>53866804
>He lost, Ash was stronger
this
And game Leon is much weaker than anime Leon.

>>53861145
Fuck Masters 8.

>>53861145
>release this shit during swsh
>already established very early it would be Ash vs Leon
What was the fucking point of this tournament again? Just to shit on other regions and their champions?

>>53866154
That’s lame, uncreative and forced as fuck anon. No wonder nobody really gave a shit about anime Leon.

>>53866237
Wanna kiss Iris

>>53866272
>Not sure about you but I have better things to do and enjoy than 24/7 thinking about Pokemon
THEN WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE

>>53866896
Not him but it means something along the lines of, "From what I've seen, you've been doing very well. I hope you keep up the good work." Not those exact words but it's roughly that meaning.

Also, is that a wedding dress? Is Cynthia unironically wearing white to her wedding? Is she even aware what that's supposed to signify? Because it's fucking hilarious.

>>53866154
>he was humble
Oh yeah so humble >>53864432 >>53864438

>>53864898
Just Galarwank don't worry about it.

>>53867722
She is autistic and asked you to choose her sygna suit for heras a change... So definitely yes

>>53861162
>You'd just get a lot of posts about how Cynthia doms Diantha in bed.
or viceversa, I'd bet some would despict diantha dom cynthia as contrast

>>53861345
They didn't do that for the pokemon they did that because green isn't that popular of a color for some reason.

>>53862239
If anyone ever had an entire team of literally unbeaten pokemon it would feel like hot garbage writing you troon.

>>53864335
>The games knew how to handle the topic and leave it open ended.
TPC has never known how to write for shit and you know it.

>>53864304
Women rising to the top and men working to the top are not the same story at all.

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>>53868117
both are hot

>>53861310
I think this is badly misreading it. Consider that Cynthia is very popular, they know she's very popular, and bringing her back allows cross-promotion with merchandise (ie plushies, pokemas and the lodge, etc). In other words, I don't think the franchise tried to make Cynthia popular to sell the games. She's already popular, her games are already popular, and everyone wants more Cynthia -- she creates hype for the show and for everything else.

I don't think anyone reacts to Leon that way. Maybe to Red or N. But he's not on the same level

>>53869559
Pretty much.
Leon is the epitome of trying to create, to force, popularity. It's all artificial.

>>53861145
I've always wanted to see this fight because I think the fairy vs dragon showdown could put the hurt on Cynthia. If they just had Cynthia wipe the floor with Diantha it would be a waste of a match.

I wanted to see the champions represented as dangerous equals, not with such a disparity between them

>>53866896
Ok ok it says "it seems like your existence has unexpectedly become very important in my own history. Please take good care of me/let's get to know each other even better"

>>53869922
>I've always wanted to see this fight because I think the fairy vs dragon showdown could put the hurt on Cynthia.
I've never understand why people see things this way, like if Cynthia is a dragon specialist and Diantha fairy one just because of their aces.
They both are generalists. What's next, calling Red an electric specialist because of his rat?

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>>53869961
Cynthia is a ghost specialist because of her spiritomb and Giratina in masters. And because she abducts children and snuffs them out in bed

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>>53870060
nice edit

>>53864460
I WISH SWSH had the balls to make him take bribes from Rose to rig battles. It felt like everything was set up for that (him being close with Rose, the handdrawn picture of them discussing eternatus, leon dressing like a esports retard) but they dropped the fucking ball. I would've like him if he was some prideful dickhead who took bribes and wore a cape because he was a fart-huffing dumbass. Between XY and SWSH, there are so many kino plot ideas but they were too scared too actualize them. I wonder if they misinterperate all the genwunners whining about BW not having non gen 5 mons as them bitching about the plot. Maybe they just don't care. I wish they did more 2D handrawn cutscenes. It was one of the only good things about SWSH and it was pure kino in BW

>>53869559
In the end Cynthia’s popularity is just commodity to her fans only. The anime doesn’t really give a shit about her and it’s very clear she mad it to second place because Sinnoh got remakes that generation. Do you think if Diantha, Iris, Lance or Steven had current remakes they wouldn’t be fighting the main character? The simple fact that mashed her BDSP team and promoted her Togekiss for Arceus promotion tells you she was there for one thing only to lose to Ash and market generation 8. Co market with Leon.

>>53866253
it makes sense when you put it like that, but i think the problem that makes it feel unbelievable is that it's SO brazenly telling rather than showing. the game has to take you on a detour every three minutes to tell you about UNDEFEATED CHAMPION LEON and his CHARIZARD from KANTOOOOO. sure he backs it up with a solid team and all but eventually it just becomes "oh my GOD i GET it already" - and since swsh has more "mash STAB to win" syndrome than other titles, it can be hard to find him a difficulty spike the way cynthia is
geeta is essentially a worse leon, but she's not being shilled to an unholy degree like leon yet

>>53870513
You know there's a whole world out there beyond the anime, right? The anime is not the beginning and end of everything.
And you are still wrong about the anime not giving a shit about her considering that she's still the Champion with the most screentime and most appearances overall through it.
The BDSP shilling period was long since over by the time the M8 was happening. Everything about how they handled Cynthia showed awareness about her popularity and that they didn't have the balls to just make her lose just like that nor have her humiliated to hype up Leon.
You could easily dismiss Leon's importance during PM for the same reasons you're trying to dismiss Cynthia's. He simply got lucky that this was the season that they decided to get rid of Ash and got double lucky that they set him up as the final boss of the season so early. Anyone with two braincells can tell that getting rid of Ash was a choice they made midway, not from the get-go, and even the M8 final roster stinks as something they decided way later on.
Either way, neither of what you said dismisses the point of the post you quoted.

>>53870816
And in that regard about popularity, there's a also a reason why they made Ash fight Steven and made him 3rd rather than Iris again or Lance or even Diantha. There's a reason why Diantha and Alan and Lance way before were the ones sacrificed to Leon rather than Steven or Cynthia.
As retardedly tone-deaf the anime staff and TPC are, it's really stupidly easy to notice their intentions and awareness in regards of the why of the M8 match-ups.

>>53870293
SWSH had a whole bunch of potential plot threads that it looked like they were setting up to go somewhere, but either it was an unintended misdirect or they didn't have time to finish it.

>Spikemuth gym can't dynamax
Why not? Is something wrong there? Did they used to be able to but it got taken away? Or is the gym leader just afraid to do it? Or will they get the dynamax thing set up just in time for your battle? Or maybe that's all a lie and they can dynamax all along and they just want to surprise challengers? This could have been a plot point.

>Macro Cosmos has a virtual monopoly on every level of industry in every part of the region
And no one has a problem with this? They fucking OWN Galar and nobody objects to them being a a megacorp that acts as a de facto government that can do whatever they want without competition. It's only considered a problem when they start using Cthulhu as an energy source, and even then, no one says "Hey this company is too powerful we should take them down" they just stop that one specific scheme.

>Everything you said about Leon being a propoganda puppet of the Chairman
I had a similar thought but I didn't think GF would go to undermine the champion like that unless there was some other badass trainer to be the final boss. In another world it could've been Marnie, Bede, Hop, the Chairman himself, IDK.

>>53870513
Thats such a sad cope.

Especially when Cynthia has had vastly more screentime in the ashnime (DP, BW, JN) than any other champion.
More in JN alone than leon had

>>53870513
Never forget that the anime is just a glorified ad, and the M8 tournament is essentially just Masters EX. Females have higher marketability just for being females so they advance, the males are thrown out in the first round because >males, and Iris is a nigger so that's a given.
Diantha was just sacrificed to artifically raise the stakes, even though we all knew there weren't really any stakes and was probably the most un-hype tournament in all of Ash's 26 years.

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>>53870990
>More in JN alone than leon had

I wonder what game player character is the strongest, ignoring all Masters and Anime stuff just what in game stuff they do and have access to

>>53871402
>I wonder what game player character is the strongest
PLA protag (who is also the DPPt protag)

defeated and captured all 3 Creation Trio, and then also added Gods avatar to their party

>>53871402
IMO that goes to Elio/Selene easily
>access to both Zmoves and Megas
>Ultra Wormhole lets them catch a ton of legendaries
>even in the story has acess to 2 legendaries and ultra beasts
>defeated 6 evil team leaders in one day (each one had legendaries on their teams too)
>fought red/blue outside of the battle tree
>comes from the last game before Dexit so has the the largest mon diversity

>>53870513
I think it's very clear (from this threat alone) that people who aren't even fans of Cynthia will still show up to talk about her and the show and the franchise endlessly just because she shows up again in the anime for a while.

I think Gen 4 got BDSP and PLA (and Cynthia got two ancestors and cosmic-level back story and ancient race status) because Sinnoh and Cynthia are popular. Fans wanted to play those games to see Cynthia just like they want to see her in Pokemas just like they want to see her in the anime and in the card game.

I do not think anyone else would be fighting Ash in the semifinals if not finals. I'm also not surprised that they gave the same number of episodes (4) to Ash interacting with Cynthia as they did to fighting Leon (4). When you make a good character people want to see the character.

If anything, I was surprised she wasn't in the finals with him. It would have been a better story for him to beat someone he's known and looked up to for many real world years as his final match.

>>53871463
> If anything, I was surprised she wasn't in the finals with him.

She wasn’t because it destroys your popularity theory. The entire reason she was the in the semi finals is because of game promotion and once that ran dry in comparison to Leon who the generation primarily focused on (well Galar is the newest region introduced) her well ran dry and she lost and Leon the star of the generation fought Ash.

>>53870990
> Especially when Cynthia has had vastly more screentime in the ashnime (DP, BW, JN) than any other champion.

Actually technically this belongs to Iris who has been in close to 200+ episodes.

>>53871580
champion iris was in ~3 episodes

>>53870826
>Why not? Is something wrong there?
It's just a town that's not built on a Dynamax spot, consequently they are poor since they don't have the economy boom of people coming to their city to watch the giant Pokemon battles.

>>53871654
Iris is Iris. Funny how Cynthiafags only want to use “technically” when it suites them. She’s not the champion with the most amount of episodes.

>>53871731
Nice cope irisfag, but pre-champion =/= champion

>>53866320
Still wrong :)

>>53871773
Back. Off.