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File: chomper.png (2 MB, 1403x992)
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>Gen IV
>So brutally strong it had to be banned to Ubers
>Gen IX
>Glorified hazard stacking faggot
How did we fall so far chompbros
>ou news
Houndstone, Flutter Mane banned
>natdex news
Palafin, KB, Roaring Moon, Flutter Mane, Genesect, Deoxys-S, Houdstone, Naganadel banned
get in here
>>
chomp was banned because of sand veil ban, niot because he was inherently busted
>>
>>52322675
Sounds like a cope to me, Chompy is still on a never broken OU streak even without DD and without Scale Shot

DLC move tutor should give back Scale Shot at least
>>
I'm surprised Chomp is still decent with the Weasel in the room. Also RIP Dragon Dance
>>
Chomp with DD would be >= Baxcalibur and Dragapult in SV OU

they fear Chomp with a DD
>>
>>52322675
What would it take for chomp to actually drop from OU
>>
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>revival blessing smeargle will soon enter the natdex AG meta
>>
>>52323845
The way speed creep is going? Another generation.
Even fucking Pawmot outspeeds it now.
>>
>>52323845
Giving Chomp spikes basically guarantees it never will
Rapid Spinners take damage removing the spikes from Rough Skin, most defoggers aren't going to enjoy taking hits from Garchomp
No spiker has a spread as great as chomp, not even Deoxys-S, and spikes basically mean Mew or Deoxys-D aren't going to be used ever
>>
so anyone uses Baxcalibur?
>>
Meta is still chaotic but welcome back Dracovish

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720521468-i06venjvq5gr2wbnebo1akl6txyc19lpw
>>
>>52324468
Yes, run Freeze Dry in case you face an unaware Quagsire or a Swampert without having set up first
>>
>>52322675
>Genesect, Deoxys-S, Naganadel banned
Why do these faggots keep trying to test these Pokemon? 5 whole gens and you’d think that Genesect would just be a Perma Uber by now.
>>
>>52324557
Natdex dropped Blaziken, Deoxys-D in Gen 8 and Mega Blaziken is free in Gen 9 OU
Zamazenta-Crowned is also roaming natdex and isn't used because it's shit, even Hoopa-U is more common
I think it's reasonable to think that at some point Genesect and Deoxys-S will be bad enough to get unbanned, especially given how GF is giving everything minmax stats now. First the UBs, then the Galar legendaries, and now the Paradox mons.
>>
You ever think we're reaching a point where there needs to be a tier in between OU and ubers?
>>
>>52324468
I tried running a ddance set, it's alright

Baxcalibur @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake
>>
>>52324557
GameFreak nuked movepools for the first time ever in SWSH and SV, the problem is natdex ignores this so Genesect is at full power
Perfectly reasonable to think that if Genesect lost coverage in ANY way, it would be allowed in OU
>>
>>52324618
OU singles needs to rely on defensive cores to prevent the game centralizing around suicide leads HO. Mons that overwhelm these cores while limiting other play styles have no place in OU and likely don't have a place in Ubers either, since they're not strong enough to hurt the cores there like Primal Groudon or Lunala.
I think if we saw an increase in defensive mon BST we could see more Ubers mons drop into OU.
>>
>>52324636
>GameFreak nuked movepools for the first time ever in SWSH
Yeah like taking away Rock Polish and Magnet Rise from Aurorus when then Pokémon never needed a nerf in the first place.

Don't worry because Incineror got Parting Shot to counter the Intimidate nerf and only popular Pokémon matter
>>
>>52324696
>OU singles needs to rely on defensive cores to prevent the game centralizing around suicide leads HO.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a hyper offense-focused meta. Stallfags are mentally ill.
>>
>>52322675
>Mega balziken is natdex ou now
>but a dead dog is too much
>>
>>52323528
Normally evasion is just a gimmick that's banned for enjoyment reasons but what is essentially a permanent 20% evasion boost on what would otherwise still be a top 3 pokemon is actually busted
>>
>>52324900
Nobody mentioned stall, why did you?
Lando-Heatran-Corviknight are bulky defensive cores you don't see on stall usually.
>>
>>52324957
Normal Blaziken is actually better if it gets any setup chance, since you can use a Z-Move on it instead and that works way better in a HO meta
>>
>>52325083
Anything bulkier than Deoxys-A is stall, retard
>>
Should I go Timid or Bold for bulky lead Glimmora?
>>
Why did Ceruledge and Tapu Fini outspeed under sticky web?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720624573
>>
Whats a good team for doubles? Using only pokemon in Paldaea dex now.
>>
>>52325083
>corviknight
>not a stallmon
>>
>>52324618
No, it's no different than trying to make BL a tier between OU and UU, the banlist should be treated as such instead of a playable tier. The dexcut and powercreep are the real problem.s
>>
How is the pretzel dog?
>>
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>>52322675
How influential are teratypes? haven't played much comp but was playing the game like a normalfag today and it said ice garchomp took away his 4x weakness and i was like woah yeah you right but would you ACTUALLY even do that like ever? should you just keep their teratype as one of their original types except for like electric for corviknight?
>>
The autists running monotype up and banned tera outright while americans were busy with thanksgiving.
on one hand they had it restricted to the shared type (which was an asinine decision to begin with) so when everything is using it for super-stab instead of using it to un-fuck matchups (which would have been actually fun and "healthy" whatever the fuck that means) so the loss of it now isnt that relevant.
but on the other hand the real problem is they had it restricted like that in the first place because they're too far up their own anus to go "hey, flying SHOULDNT have to die to electric every time" and let the mechanic meant to allow a player to turn around bad matchups, to turn around bad matchups.
>>
>>52322675
>Palafin banned

You're fucking with me, right?
>>
>>52325708
ceruledge is scarfed, it seems strange since the fini was also scarfed
also defensive lando is slower than a max speed fini
>melmetal
jfc what a monster
>252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
terastal was a mistake
>>
>>52326412
>Palafin's brute strength has lead it to become the subject of many discussions in National Dex. The immense power of Choice Band + Water Tera + Wave Crash is simply far too much for teams to handle defensively, with even checks like Toxapex being 2HKOd by a resisted move. Whilst it may seem like this isn't that much of a problem in this metagame, it's also worth noting that Palafin also monopolizes the offensive metagame, being able to revenge kill several neutral targets from full HP with Choice Band Jet Punch. Several players also experimented with Palafin rain, and this further amplifies Palafin's already insane power to ridiculous levels. Even the bulkiest Water resists like Dondozo are cleanly 3HKOd by Wave Crash, Additionally, sets like Bulk Up + Taunt can also make dealing with Palafin harder than anticipated, as the ability for Palafin to boost its Jet Punch beyond the power of Choice Band makes it several times harder to revenge kill, and Taunt makes up for matchups against bulkier water resists, such as Dondozo and immunities, such as Gastrodon. As a result, Palafin was voted to be banned from National Dex.
Unlike Ash-Greninja, Palafin has too much bulk and can also run setup sets. Ash-Gren was very reliant on its speed tier which matters less now that Zeraora, Dragapult and certain paradoxes exist in the tier.
>>
>>52322675
I was thinking that maybe palafin would start to fall off a bit once people better at playing around it's need to switch out first, but being too strong in natdex might prove that wrong
>>
>>52326420
Yeah, Gholdengo and Melmetal fuck over stall big time. Melmetal 2HKOs every stallmon except Skarmory, and Ghodengo walls a good chunk of stall as well. Basically only CM Blissey can beat it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720640184-iqhmxr2j3rvgr1okprxuf9yu6skq733pw
Ideally everything should be paralyzed. Melmetal's parahax % is on par with Togekiss, except Togekiss isn't hitting you nearly as hard.
>>
>>52326647
Misconception is that broken mons are less broken in natdex. It's the opposite. Since natdex has to handle multiple threats, it can't centralize around one oppressive Pokemon. That's why Zamazenta-Crowned was never tested in Gen 7 despite being weak enough for the tier to deal with it in many ways.
Gyarados is a great check to Palafin in natdex, but too much other broken shit like Iron Hands, Regieleki and Koko shit on Gyarados. The check isn't that splashable while Palafin literally is.
>>
good resource for bss meta?
>>
I just had an idea for a Noivern Infiltrator Normal Tera Type Boomburst spammer.
Anyone know how good that would go?
>>
>>52326315
Not OU, might find a place in PU once tiers settle.
>>52326380
>plays monotype
>complains about team preview
kys
>>52326712
Melmetal's main problem is it's too slow and secondary problem is DIB has too low PP. It also struggles with Flying-types and Levitators that are immune to webs.
Its best set imo is Gyro Ball/Acid Armor/Body Press/Discharge or Thunder Wave or Ice Beam or Toxic. With Toxic removed from OU Thunder Wave is all the more valuable. Sadly it doesn't learn Curse, which would be amazing on it.
>>52326775
Palafin is literally Ubers, 160 Attack with 60 BP STAB priority alongside 120 BP STAB and coverage alongside 100 speed is insane. It has good bulk, good defensive typing and can set up and taunt. Fucking crazy.
The 'downside' was easily figured out by players simply using it like Ash-Greninja, to nab a kill and switch out. Flip Turn was subbed for Wave Crash and suddenly the tier has a bleeding asshole.
>>
>>52327907
Try it anon, it sounds sick
>>
Why does Kingambit Disappoint me every fucking game
is it simply because I'm an ORASfag and Bisharp is top 5 in gen 6 OU?
>>
>>52327976
I plan to once I find a good Noibat ingame.

I could see

Modest/Timid *You already outspeed most things anyways so modest may be better*
Life Orb/Choice Specs
252 Sp.Atk/Spd
Heat Wave
Boomburst
Shadow Ball
Air Slash/Hurricane/Super Fang.
>>
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>>52328063
wow Noivern is not as fast as I thought itd be
>>
>>52328060
He should objectively be good, people have to find better sets for him.
You should run 144 speed on him to outspeed Corv and max atk adamant with rest on HP.
Also I heard supreme overlord was not implemented correctly on showdown.
>>
>>52328087
Huh I expected that to be a smidgen faster too, but its still blazing past alot of the competition, especially if you have sticky web setup.
>>
>palafin, roaring moon, misdreavus are gone
Who is next?
>>
>>52328146
That's just natdex though.
I think Dolphin and Cyclizard have to go. Potentially Iron Bundle and Anal-ape after that. The rest of the game is fixne.
>>
>>52328169
Yea I can't wait for them to ban every good offensive unit to bring back the stall meta.
>>
>>52328200
I mean, if you find it that amusing to be swept by whatever gets a sub from Cyclizard, go off.
>>
>Skeledirge and Wo-Chien cover each others weaknesses beautifully, with only rock flying and dragon going unresisted

What would be a good team for ingame battling with these two at the centre? Bonus points if you can fit Garganacl in there, I've literally never done anything comp related but the fact that two of my faves seen to gel so well makes me want to try
>>
>>52328228
is it more amusing to stare at a toxapex for 70 billion turns while it alternates between Recover and Baneful Bunker?
>>
>>52328286
If you haven't noticed, Toxapex is nowhere to be seen in the OU meta, because it's been gutted beyond repair with losing Scald and Knock.
Now it's easy setup bait and certain mons are so strong they can 2HKO pex with neutral or resisted hits anyway.
>>
>>52328286
At 8 PP for recovery and no fucking Scald, it's really a skill issue if you can't handle Pex anymore. She also gets slapped pretty hard by a lot of the new threats, and you can score a surprise kill on most tanks due to tera, which immediately turns the tide. Not sure what you're crying about, I think it's much more reasonable to navigate because you can beat stalls with most well-rounded compositions. Things like Cyclizard>Dnite or Palafin require pretty damn specific counters RN or it's a sweep.
>>
>>52324393
As someone who skipped a couple gens, It’s kinda fucked that 102 speed is just alright these days.
>>
>>52328321
102 Speed is outright bad in natdex for an offensive Pokemon, Latios and Latias can boost their bulk immensely with Tera Electric without losing any offensive presence.
As sad before, Garchomp is awesome as a hazard stacker. Spikes/Rocks/EQ/flex with Rough Skin is great.
>>
the very second Palafin gets banned, you're gonna see Tera Water Barraskewda fuck assholes left and right
Rain Teams stay as braindead as they ever were
>>
>>52328400
>Tera Water Barraskewda
You mean Quaquaval. The duck is just Palafin but worse.
In national dex, there's Mega Swampert who is bulkier, faster, and almost as strong as Palafin in rain. However, Swampert doesn't know Wave Crash (yet).
>>
>>52328445
Nah, i'd rather fish over the shitty duck that eat shit and dies more often than not.
Its gimmick just isn't that good, it needs a turn to do much and it doesn't really have the bulk to pull it off. Its heavily predictable and overall just not good.
>>
>>52328400
>Rain Teams stay as braindead as they ever were
We have fast and strong freeze dry user in a tier where no pokemon resist both of its stabs. Not to mention HO is dominating the game and blow away anything that takes time to set up.
>>
>>52328200
>the stall meta
Lmao retard you don't play the game do you
>>
when will the first SV OU usage pic be out?
>>
>>52328893
is switching in really setting up?
>>
Palafin under rain is broken as shit. FUCKING BAN IT ALREADY, THERE IS NO COUNTER
>>
>>52328400
You dumbfuck PALAFIN IS WAY STRONGER THAN BARRA SHIT AND LESS FRAIL. ALSO THERE ARE PEOPLE RUNNING BOTH
>>
>>52328313
Pex is dead, there are better options out there now.
>>
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>use tera dragon choice scpecs adaptaility dragalge in a trick room expecting to oneshot everything
>it doesn't one shot anything
either smogon has some fucked up damage calculations with tera or dragalge just suck
>>
>>52329165
>Dragon
Yes one shot everything huh? How the fuck you wanna get past fairy you moron?
>>
Assault Vest Scream Tail is such a "fall for it once" type of set
>>
>>52329189
the question is about damage calculations you retard
>>
So assuming nothing else gets banned, what new mons will still be ou after the new toy syndrome wears out
>>
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For being Bisharp 2.0, I sure am hearing nothing about him. Did the speed drop or giving Bisharp eviolite hurt its chances?
>>
>>52329379
Bisharp only has like 2% more bulk with Eviolute
the problem is that Bisharp tightcasted role isn't very good these days
it runs swords dance, Iron Head, Sucker Punch, filler. Powerful yes, but the lack of widespread intimidate and Defog makes it difficult to get a defiant boost, which is 1000% better than Supreme Overlord. Also no STAB Knock off will always be a shame.
>>
>Blessed with all this shit
>Still UU trash
>>
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Almost any Ability is such a fun Metagame
>>
>>52326530
>3hko with wave crash
>On don
>This is a complaint from the stallfags
Don literally can murder the dolphin with body press while it takes it's recoil
>>
Gholdenchads won so hard
The current top 3 OU mons are Palafin, Donphan and Gholdengo
>>
>>52329165
Does terra dragon stacks with adaptability? That has been one of my biggest question with this gimmick.
>>
>>52330061
retard read
it says Toxapex
>>
Anyone here playing BSS? I’m wanted to make Annihilape and Clodsire work together so I paired them with Rotom-W for screens, but that leaves me a bit too vulnerable to fast psychic types
>>
>>52330090
It should be a 25% boost aka less than life orb, that's why anon didn't notice any changes
>>
>>52330094
Reading is for gay people, you stinky homo
>>
The OU Council will be voting to ban or keep these mons:
Palafin, Iron Bundle, Gholdengo, Annihilape (lul)

The acceleration towards bulky offense triple regenerator boots meta is beginning
>>
>>52330615
>Annihilape
fucking kek
>>
>>52330126
25% is so fucking good on offensive pokemon
Tera Water in Rain is a deadly offensive threat
>>
>>52330110
There aren't too many fast psychics currently in the game so i wouldn't be that worried about it.
>>
>using tera on a Ghost type to get boosts with Curse instead
I'd imagine this would work. But would it be worth using tera like this?
>>
>>52330941
Golurkbros, it's time.
>>
>>52326315
Shit tier but you can use it as a funny Koraidon hard counter in Ubers.
>>
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ehehehehhehe
>>
>>52330615
Gholdengo will survive, at least for now. It makes Corviknight bad at hazard control but it has a really rough time preventing the Donphan bros from doing their job since it cannot switch in at all even with Balloon. Toedscruel is also a funny option that can Spore it through Good as Gold but it barely does anything else.

But if we're being fully honest him staying won't prevent the meta from devolving into boots spam and if anything it will favor it due to hazard control being less effective.
>>
>>52323528
It got banned because back then fags wanted a pokemon that is able to switch into Garchomp, survive it and kill it next turn. And there were none. Same reason Salamence was booted. Sand veil just made it even more egregious.
>>
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>>52331101
EHEHHE
>>
here's a meme set i might throw at showderp inspired by >>52330941
GREGOR (Annihilape) @ Punching Glove
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot/Earthquake
- Curse

the plan is to use it to bait in checks like gholdengo/other powerful ghosts, then go tera normal to tank them and change type for curse, set up boosts with curse, then go to town, i feel like EQ is probably better than gunk shot, and there's probably better options than punching glove for items (lum berry, leftovers), but it's a start
>>
>>52330615
I think Iron Bundle is OK in natdex
But Gholdengo, Palafin, rape ape and Iron Hands are bonkers
Iron Hands needs to get booted from natdex, the electric terrain teams are nasty shit
>>
>>52331355
>Iron Hands needs to get booted from natdex, the electric terrain teams are nasty shit
Isn't mostly every future Paradox nasty with Electric Terrain? Wouldn't it be simpler to just ban Tapu Koko in this case?
>>
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>>52331352
on an extra note, it outspeeds uninvested gholdengo and OHKOs it with a curse boost 100 BP rage fist
>>
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I've always been a Hariyamafag but Iron Hands is next level. I've never loved a Pokemon this much.
>>
>>52331352
The problem with this set is that there is no reason to use Curse over Bulk Up even with Tera.
>>
>>52331433
wait it gets bulk up?
man i'm stupid
>>
The real Curse meme should be a non-ghost type with Curse tera-ing into a Ghost type.
This mon should have either regenerator or Recover to abuse it
>>
>>52331371
It isn't just Koko, because Regieleki can manually set up terrain and screens and I was seeing both on teams + Quark Drive
>>
>>52331420
Why did U-Turn heal?
>>
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>>52331316
Shadow Shield Volcarona is so fun
>>
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>>52331463
The next attack was going to be Drain Punch but the opponent disconnected and the game spazzed out.
I think the game does not handle Ally Switch particularly well either
>>
>>52331523
though it's impossible for Drain Punch to have healed 168 HP from a level 50 Roaring Moon. Even with Max HP and a Big Root it wouldn't work. No idea what happened
>>
>>52330615
see ya, dolphin!
>>
supposing annihilape gets the boot, is there really no merit to primeape? it has a better speed tier, the attack is barely lower and eviolite being knocked off kickstarts RF while being a free BU/DP. overall it's quite obvious that it doesn't have a niche over the evo now, but I think it could see some fringe play
>>
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>tera ice choice scarf dazzling bruxish
it deals with more thank you'd think
>>
>>52331838
Losing STAB and the lower HP stat are big deals.
>>
Why not just ban Rage Fist instead of annihilape ?
>>
>>52331879
in terms of comparing it to its evo you're right, but I'm wondering whether if the latter and palafin were to be banned primeape would fill their niche of denying stall. you're still a bulky taunt+bu that fucks over slowbro, has alternative scaling to overcome unaware mons and isn't revenge killed easily
>>
>>52331971
Annihilape can take a hit, while Primeape is much more weary about that. And its Rage Fist is always going to be 50% weaker unless you burn your Tera on it.
>>
Is it ever a better choice to drop a single spike over stealth rocks?
>>
>>52332274
I don't understand what your question is, but a single layer of Spikes does more damage to Steel, Ground and Fighting types.
>>
>>52331905
because its the signature move of Annihilape.
If rage fist is banned and another pokemon comes that doesnt use it as well, should that pokemon be unable to use rage fist? no
>>
>>52333786
>If rage fist is banned and another pokemon comes that doesnt use it as well, should that pokemon be unable to use rage fist? no
This is already the case, Primeape can learn it and Basculin can learn Last Respects too for that matter.
>>
>>52334066
Basculin can't learn Last Respects, and Basculegion is unavailable.
>>
>>52333786
if a "healthy" metagane is one that promotes variety then it stands to reason that an easily isolated element should be removed first instead of the pokemon that could easily still run other sets. Instead however, smogon council members are too autistic to revise their policies in response to generational changes, because they have become too complacent and are not forced to answer to anyone in response to their shit. They are quite litterally gatekeeping competitive singles in the worst way possible.
>>
>>52334188
>Smogon council members
motherfucker just have a high ladder score and vote
>>
>>52334151
>Basculin can't learn Last Respects
The White Striped one can, Basculegion gets it as a egg move.
>>
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oh man AAA lets you be so creative
>>
>>52334207
Is White Stripe available?
>>
>>52334239
Earth Eater for A-Muk.
>>
>>52334333
he probably won't come to gen 9 anon
>>
>>52334705
Alolan Muk is a Home transfer and will save OU
>>
how the fuck is annihilape "broken"
its really good but seems pretty healthy for the meta. sorry you don't get to spam your risk free u-turns anymore. is he banned because he gets rewarded off of switching into a 4x resisted move?
>>
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>>52334705
It's already in the game.
>>
>>52334744
if it was like 120 Max it'd be great
350 max for any single hit is just obnoxious, it starts being good after just a single hit
>>
>>52334744
It's broken because it lingers between switches and gets ridiculously high. This gen just loves its no-drawback 200+BP moves before STAB or type effectiveness.
>>
>>52334862
oh noes! a ghost type with a decent physical STAB. ban NAO
>>
>>52334895
350 power is way better than "decent"
>>
>>52334895
>100 BP after a single hit
>"decent"
lol
>>
>>52322675
What is KB?
>>
>>52334916
Kyurem Black
>>
anihilape punishes you for spamming u-turn and using weak attacks.
stop using weak attacks. Git gud and learn to predict. but the OU council couldn't even predict which smogon admin will be exposed for pedophelia next.
>>
>>52334958
Predict what? Does every Pokemon need to carry a strong enough Flying, Psychic, or Ghost move to OHKO Annihilape?
>>
>>52334978
no. stop fucking spamming u-turn everywhere when theres a powerful pokemon that feasts on retards spamming u-turn
actually fucking think for once.
>>
>>52335010
It's not just U-Turn that powers up Rage Fist, dumpass.
>>
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First VGC team I've been having decent success with, thoughts?
>>
>>52334744
It's not broken its just good and the council is beholden to the retards screeching in the threads so they have to do a superficial vote on the matter to appease them. just like real life lel
If they didn't ban Palafin or Roaring Moon on first pass by a pretty wide margin I doubt they'd ever give a single vote to the ape.
Nego on the other might be fucked until we get a single hazard remover that can threaten it out while it has balloon.
>>
>>52335339
How is Jumpluff working out for you? I run a Paradox heavy sun team and I’m thinking of swapping out the Maushold I have but never use for one.
>>
>>52335377
Pretty decent, sometimes it just gets off a tailwind and dies but a lot of the time that's enough. I chose covert cloak over sash since it's going to outspeed pretty much everything and get a tailwind off anyways. If it lives, great, I can try to get off a sleep powder or buy my other pokemon a turn with rage powder.
It's possible there's something better, but it's definitely not the worst choice.
>>
>>52335010
Try actually fighting Annihilape for once and tell me how easy it is to not click a weak or resisted attack ever so that it doesn't get any boosts.
>>
>>52335354
>Nego on the other might be fucked until we get a single hazard remover that can threaten it out while it has balloon.
We already have two, they are called Great Tusk and Iron Treads with Knock Off.
>>
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>>52325216
>Deoxys-A has 20 Base Defense and S. Def
Holy shit, 99.5% of the Dex is Stall.
>>
What should I give my ceruledge? One of the choice stuff or something else? OU smogon
>>
>>52335891
What are you trying to use it as for your team?
>>
>>52335981
It works like a physical chandelure right? Switch in for the flash fire and get some kills in I guess.
>>
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/garchomp.3711218/
>>
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1500 elo means i'm ok at the game right?
>>
>>52338387
1700
>>
What are shits to change
>>
Looked up that Iron Thorns has the strongest Rock Blast. This any good?

Iron Thorns @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
>>
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I love clodsire bros
>>
is appletun good in this one or nah
same question for salamence
>>
>>52339569
Imagine forfeiting when you still have a physical sweeper against clodsire
>>
>>52339636
Salamence isn't very good no.
It kinda stopped being good in Gen 4
>>
>>52339636
appletun has a bit of a niche thanks to the strong water types going around, apple acid is a pretty good tool that lets it win 1v1s against other setup monsters and whatever walls body press. the mons it predates on are most likely getting banned this week but the lack of toxic and phazers still benefits it.
mence's niche is definitely intimidate, it's one of the few mons with the full set of desirable defensive tools in the tier (recovery with roost, phazing with tail, good bulk with intimidate and threatens to do something back with very strong moves backed up by good offenses). as a DD abuser dragonite is preferred because of multiscale and espeed, but it's not like mence is strictly inferior even here. for once nite would suck dick for dual wingbeat
>>
>>52336077
It still kinda depends on your team. If your hazard removal is spotty, Boots would be a very good item on it. It means that you can switch it in whenever you predict a fire move without worrying about rocks. If you really want to just blast through walls with the flash fire boost, though, go for choice band.
>>
>>52339636
>appletun
Only decent grass mon in the game after Amoonguss gives it a niche for now.
>mence
Overshadowed hard by Moon and DNite.
>>
>>52339745
>>52339857
>>52339974
thank you for your service I love you all
>>
>>52335339
>Bellibolt
How does this thing werk?
>>
Is Snow viable in doubles?

I really like setting up Aurora veil but Slowking taking a turn to set it up seems rough.
>>
>>52338387
What’s the average on /vp/? Specifically in this general.
>>
>>52340429
1089
>>
>>52340041
Its viable. Abomasnow himself learns aurora veil now and the def boost should make his physically tanky despite dogshit typing.
Iron bundle learns veil too if you want a fast setter and he has 115 def for some reason for massive defense in hail
>>
>>52340476
Maybe. I peaked at 1400 in gen 6 OU around a month after ORAS dropped, which isn’t that good to be honest like i wouldn’t be surprised if 1300-1500 is just the “casual competitive” zone.
>>
>>52322675
I just found out that not only does Punching Glove only boost punching moves by 10% instead of 50%, but it also doesn’t stack with Iron Fist. This has killed my idea of ultra Mach Punch Pawmot, but I still want to use her. Is there another build that’s good? I saw some people saying Double Shock Electric Tera is good, is it really?
>>
>>52340903
According to what I've last read on Smogon, it does stack but it's still only 10%.
>>
I've never been into competitive Pokemon before. Should I study up on VGC format or whatever the Smogon stuff is?
>>
https://pokepast.es/1599b6f5bb1a40ac

heres a rain team that doesnt use palafin or iron bundle. got to 1500 with this.
iron jugulis' fourth move can be changed to something else if you want like another coverage move.
kilowattrel is based
tera fire tatsugiri is a counter to iron bundle, just dont switch in on freeze dry before the tera. also owns gholdengo if it try to spinblock you.
tinkaton is a good utility mon, good for switching in on freeze drys and dragapults.
barraskewda is your standard swift swimmer in rain. ghost tera to check ekiller dnite because thats the only thing you can do to not autolose. in hindsight, you can prob make iron jugulis tera ghost which would make more sense.
>>
>>52341010
So would it be worth it to go Punching Glove Iron Fist? I guess that’s the same as a Life Orb without the recoil but that also means grinding for a Patch.
>>
>>52341045
What do you want to play:
>6v6 Singles
Smogon
>4v4 Doubles
VGC
>3v3 Singles
Japanese sites or Smogon
>>
>>52324363
They're not going to program the move in anon.
>>
>>52341121
I know nothing about the intricacies of the different formats and how they play. Are any a better starting spot?
>>
>>52341151
Experience is the best teacher, just pick one and start playing, it's the start of the gen so everyone is messing around trying to figure out what works. Do what everyone else does: whenever something beats you either copy it or figure out how to counter it. Smogon's mainly played on Pokemon Showdown and while you can play the other formats there, the other formats are bigger on the cart.
>>
>>52326530
how can people type words like "monopolizes the offensive metagame" about the weakest ladder on showdown where anyone outside the top 10 is pretty much only using samples or meme teams
>>
I'm trying a trick room team with arboliva/dirge/king/nacl/gambit, who do I put for last in order not to get destroyed by chienpao?
>>
>>52342065
Iron Hands.
>>
>>52342103
sold, it looks like a good tr abuser too
I'm worried about only having 1 setter but I'll have to make do unless I want to use klefki
>>
The smogon council is trying to hard to deviate from the HO meta to the point they going to ban every new pokemon.
>>
What's the value of the "X of Ruin" abilities?
>>
>>52343317
Clowning on doubles
Letting Chi Yu and Chien Pao kill things they have no right in killing
Letting Wo Chien and Ting Lu live shit they have no right living (took less than half from a Flutter Mane moonblast with Ting today)
>>
>>52343723
>>52343317
Sorry I asked in a retarded way. How much do they lower the respective stats by?
>>
>>52331905
Annihilate is pretty strong even without Rage Fist. Ghost/Fighting is an insane typing
>>
>>52344192
Oh its 25% of the base stat. Says it right there on showdown.
>>
>Battle Bus (Orthworm) @ Leftovers
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shed Tail
- Rest
- Body Press
- Heavy Slam
Is this worth using over Cyclizar? It pretty much guarantees a free turn for my set up sweeper after i switch this in when i have my hazards up, and or when im done removing my hazards.
Slapping moves is easy for me to understand, while the evs really arent besides unga bunga shit
>>
>>52342554
Most of the mons are batshit insane even without considering terastal.
>>
>>52344378
Use sitrus berry to guarantee the sub from 100% no matter what, 1 good sub is enough to win games.
>>
>>52344378
252/252Def/4 filler Impish is a better spread as it walls Iron Treads.
>>
>>52344939
>>52344615
Huh, guess that makes sense, keeps it alive long enough to do its shit. This was the team I had in mind, but couldnt come up with the last mon. Maybe a cleaner or another set up sweeper in case i have the opportunity
>https://pokepast.es/9c246a502aef7d26
>>
>>52345121
Great Tusk @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin
- Bulk Up
Fixed your Tusk, you could alternatively run 248 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe if you are more consistent in passing subs to it and can get 2+ bulk ups off. 252 Jolly matters for Tusk since at +1 it actually outspeeds threats. Last mon should be an offensive answer to Chien-Pao so Orthworm isn't your only option vs it, Scizor or Slither Wing come to mind.
>>
>>52345294
Like so?
Larvesnuggie (Slither Wing) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Leech Life
Seems weird running three booster energies but hey its better than three boots
nothin has odd number feet
>>
>>52345369
Should have added Knock Off over rapid spin on Tusk as an option if you're facing a lot of opposing Glimmora+Gholdengo teams.
>Slither Wing
Slither Wing @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up / First Impression
- Morning Sun / Flame Charge / Flare Blitz / Earthquake
- Leech Life
- Close Combat
Don't have much experience with this guy but I'm not seeing what you outspeed with the investment so I'd opt for bulk instead.
>Seems weird running three booster energies
You're running a suicide lead hyper offense team that exploits shed tail, you need to blast through your opponent's team ASAP, the longer the game goes the less advantage you have.
>>
>>52339860
Oh yeah boots could be good. Thanks anon.
>>
It's hopeless to use Pincurching, isn't it?
Any luck with manual ET? Or are futuremons doomed to be itemsluts?
>>
>>52345730
>Any luck with manual ET?
It's a waste of a precious moveslot just like rain dance was on rain mons in Gen4.
>>
>>52345730
>It's hopeless to use Pincurching, isn't it?
You can make ET work just need to be more creative.
More and more people found a way to use torkoal as an entry cleaner with grass tera while boosting Protomons.
>>
>>52345928
Torkoal is already decent as a mon though(good movepool, focused stats). Pinchurchin was already pretty iffy when it had a nuke move.
It doesn't even have Rising Voltage anymore.
>>
What have you guys been using on BSS? Great Tusk has been winning me a lot of matches. I love dumpstering on toxapex with headlongrush+booster energy. I was thinking of swapping to a band for extra power.
>>
>>52345622
>Booster Energy
Genuinely, you should just use a Life Orb if you're doing it for damage. Losing your boost if you switch out is way too much of a cost, and the HP recoil is completely irrelevant in the current meta that defavors stall.
>>
>>52346001
Oh yeah, and I even forgot that Protosynthesis is 1.3x damage rather than 1.5x.
Booster Energy on any stat other than speed is worthless.
>>
>>52346001
>>52346024
And additionally, Booster Energy doesn't stack with weather boost, so you're potentially losing another 1.3x damage from ability if you don't go Life Orb.
>>
>>52345988
Either of the donphans are really good yeah. Glimmora hits like a truck and gives free setup, thats probably been my most successful mon thinking on it.

>>52346001
> and the HP recoil is completely irrelevant in the current meta that defavors stall.
Uh huh, its totally irrelevant to bring yourself into death range. Chip is still incredibly relevant in an aggressive meta.
>>
Why can't I terastallize on showdown anymore?
>>
>>52345988
https://pokepast.es/5bc6d68e9a032ff0
Grimmsnarl Screens teams are probably better, but this puts in the work against anything lacking priority taunt.
>>
>>52346142
Grimmsnarl makes me upset and forces me to run a scizor.
>>
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Goodbye Palafin. You were able to kill their stall favourites, so you had to go.
>>
>>52346107
just did this battle. You can tera on showdown
>https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721658740
Just mad that people always know EXACTLY how to defeat my team
>>
>>52346281
You fucked up by teraing Moon infront of a dark mon that was spamming sucker punch.
>>
>>52346331
I didnt have a sub up at all though
>>
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>>52346248
If you think about it, isn't being banned to Uber just a testament to how GODLY PalaChad is?
>>
>>52346370
Consider running 32 HP / 220 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe on Moon so you don't lose ditto speed ties.
>>
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How good is Scizor after losing out on roost and what are some good options for him now?
>>
>>52346531
cizor @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
Tera steel Bullet Punch is the anti cancer.
>>
are there any viable special attackers other than gholdengo and skeledirge? i just want something that's decently fast and isn't weak to ghost
>>
Where would Dudunsparce fall? Can teach the fucker everything and its pretty fat
>>
>>52346623
Volcarona or Iron moth
>>
>>52346623
Chi-Yu, Glimmora, Iron Valiant kinda. Iron Jugulis is perfectly fine; just not very exciting.
Iron Moth. And obviously there's a few in the returning mon pool.
>>
>>52346623
>Dragapult
>Magnezone
>Rotom
>Volcarona
>Chi-Yu
>Iron Jugulis
>Iron Moth
>Iron Valiant
>>
am i the only one running punching glove on annihilape instead of lefties
>>
>>52346787
What is the extra 10% damage beating? Is the damage boost that significant with Drain Punch that it out heals the other options? Lefties or Chesto Rest looks better because of all the hit you have to eat.
>>
>>52323652
>>52323845
Garchomp has enough going for it that I don't think it'll ever stop being decent.
Not the top dog anymore, but always viable enough.
>>
>>52324618
I think Smogon needs to accept that every gen's OU should be different.
Right now, it feels like they're judging the gen 9 mons by gen 8 standards.
The Smogon of today would quickban Rampardos and Haxorus if they were new.
>>
>>52347714
>shit retards that don't play say
All 6 of these bans are justified.
>>
>AIIIEEEEEEE!!!
>i-is that a pokemon that doesn't automatically lose to STALL????????
>TO UBERS WITH YOU! AG!!! OUT OF MY SIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>52330615
Rape Ape is unironically healthy.
Overpowered, yes, but it's not a mon you can just send out like a retard and instantly win with, or a mon that actively punishes the opponent for playing well.
Rage Fist only does monstrous damage if your opponent lets it.
>>
>>52347813
>lose to STALL
Stall has been #1 on the ladder before any of the bans and after them. You don't play the game.
>>
>>52331905
Smogon values consistency over common sense.
See the fact that they didn't want to ban Last Respects because they couldn't prove that the 300 BP move was the problem rather than the perfectly mediocre mon that gets it.
>>
>>52347863
>stall is #1 on the ladder
>in smogons world
>the sun also rose, in equally shocking news.
>>
RIP Palafin and Iron Bundle. Pretty sure half of my team is dead, haven't played much since like day 2 of Showdown.
>>
>>52345730
Torkoal and Pincurchin are unironically bad in this meta.
Everyone is using the paradox mons. You'll be giving your opponent a boost as well.
Using Life Orb is a good idea if you're boosting an attacking stat so that you keep the boost after switching and so you can get a double boost if your opponent has Pincurchin or Torkoal.
>>
>>52347885
>before any of the bans
>anon can't read
>water is wet, in equally shocking news
>>
I don't care about this autistic Smogon banning onions shit. What are the broken mons people will be running in the actual game once comp comes out?
>>
>>52348010
if stall was #1 it wouldn't have been getting BTFO by a dolphin and a robotic penguin bad enough that they had to be quickbanned out.
>>
>>52348011
Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle, neither require a turn of setup to unga bunga.
>>
Next is Weavile Sr.
>>
>the max sp.def giga drain/energy ball Florges I was theorymonning to check/counter Iron Bundle is now defunct
Oh well. My tests of it seemed to have potential, but it’s still a serviceable wish passer. Shame it lost access to aromatherapy.
>>
>>52348038
Stall was the only playstyle that could run Dondozo/Slowbro/Alomomola/etc and Blissey to beat them, you'd know this if you actually played.
>>
>>52348107
as if bundle didnt just freeze dry the first three while fin dominated the shit out of blissey
>>
>>52348070
Chien Pao turned out to be not super broken because he lacks the high base power moves of weavile.

Chien's best ice move is effectively 110 power, Weavile's is 120
For Dark its 105 vs 97.5 but no item being knocked off

Once move tutor comes he gets banned
>>
>>52347795
We'll never know if they were justified because the meta never got to adapt.
That's the problem. Everyone is just using whatever has the biggest numbers.
Nobody understands this meta yet.
Imagine if Dracovish was banned in under a week before people even had a chance to start using Seismitoad. Even if that ban was ultimately the right decision, I fundamentally disagree with jumping the gun like that.
>>
>>52347795
>6 bans in under 2 weeks
>potentially going to ban tera
Yes, we are dealing with logical people here, and not histrionic autists who judge their own worth based upon their ELO
>>
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Fuck mousehold
>>
>>52348125
>actually thinking all three of those water types are on the same team
play the game
>>
>>52348622
you've tried to shift the goalposts only to fuck yourself over. duh they're not all being run on one team but they're the only semi-reliable answers to the two.
>>
>>52329998
A shame it doesn't let us give Huge Power to shitmons
Huge missed opportunity
>>
shed tail screens is probably the most oppressive thing ive ever played against on multiple gens of OU
this shit is just almost impossible unless you bring your own HO (and hope you get a better matchup) or you play stall
>>
>>52348975
Brick Break is a thing
Phasing is a thing
>>
>>52348145
I partially agree, but also I think having to use Toad on every team for 2 months straight despite being a total shitmon outside of answering Vish sucked ass, and Vish was still broken even with everybody running Toad. I feel Palafin is even worse because at least Vish HAD consistent answers. Palafin can theoretically beat any of its counters and you have no way of knowing until it comes in and hits you. Flutter Mane has the 3rd highest base speed in the tier, a pretty much perfect stat spread and out of this world coverage. Sure, I think they could have waited a little longer before booting them, but I think it would just be delaying the inevitable. I don't think the meta could have ever properly adapted to them.
>>
>>52348989
>brick break
yes i will use this really bad move that's only good for this one team archetype but be useless for everything else
>phasing
i thought /vp/ didn't like stall?
>>
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>>52348975
You suck
>>
What /vp/ struggles to understand is that these super strong and fast breakers such as Iron Bundle force you to run fat Pokémon like Blissey because it's the only consistent answer. Or they just beat everything like Palafin and Flutter Mane so it doesn't matter either way.

You can see that in the ban announcement Chink-Pao, Roaring Moon and Goldman got a unanimous no ban vote so evidently they aren't against letting very strong things be for the time being. Just not unreasonably strong.

You
>>
>>52349306
>Muh /vp/ is soooo stupid
So why won't you stay on your smoggie forums
>>
>>52349382
Not your safespace, retard.
>>
>>52324464
This. They basically made Chomp into an Offensive Ferrothorn, this shit is sticking around forever
>>
Just found an interesting set for Dragonite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8GM0Fa3Fi4

Makes me wonder how much Arcanine could benefit from T-Normal + Extreme Speed, while being helpful with it's Intimidate, and being faster than Dragonite. Sucks that it lost Burn Up.
>>
Honestly people need to take a look at Tauros-Padea-Water. It doesn't get SD but between Intimidate, BU, Raging Bull, CC, and a 4th move of your choice between EQ/Trailblaze/Bulldoze/Tera Blast Fairy/etc, it's actually solid into a lot of shit

My spread for it rn is

Tauros-Paldea-Water @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Raging Bull
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast

Not as strong as Quaquaval but it doesn't have to be

>>52324745
>Don't worry because Incineror got Parting Shot to counter the Intimidate nerf and only popular Pokémon matter
Didn't it get it last gen?
>>52325692
I like Timid because you always outspeed standard Great Tusk and can Mortal Spin on it.
>>52326315
Bad but it'll probably find a nice spot in a lower tier. Mono Fairy is a good defensive type, it gets some decent moves, and a Fire immunity on top of all that gives it some merit
>>52327907
Sounds like fun. Could also be fun to pair it with Specs Pult with Tera Ghost so you can base your Infiltrator Tera off whatever you're fighting.
>>52328200
>Stall meta
Fucking lmao, there hasn't been a legit stall meta anywhere since Mega Sableye ORAS. NAtdex last gen was an offensive shitshow with the occasional bulky team to bolster it
>>52329320
After these past two bans? At bare minumum these guys are sticking around, at least until suspects get under way

>Roaring Moon
>Chien Pao
>Gholdengo
>Glimmora
>Great Tusk
>Chi Yu
>Iron Valiant
>Iron Moth
>Iron Treads
>Cyclizar
>Dodonzo
>Clodsire
>>52346248
Stall was the only archetype that didn't get manhandled turn 1 by it, fuck Palafin. Now I can actually run fun shit
>>
>>52346531
I'm personally a huge fan of this set at the moment

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast

+2 Life Orb Bullet Punch mulches almost everything in the game right now, and everything that survives that get mulched by either Close Combat or +2 Tera Electric Tera Blast. Dodonzo is a bitch though, so be careful


But the set >>52346590 suggested is also good
>>
>>52346623
Tera Grass Iron Moth is really cool right now
>>
>>52349526
Probably not as much because no Dragon DAnce or EQ to cover its weakpoints. Also no Multiscale to guarantee setup
>>
Tera still boosting the old STABs is really regrettable, if it didn't I feel nobody would talk about a ban right now. It was SO close to being well balanced but it is what it is.
>>
>>52349691
Agreed, but I still think Tera is easily the most interesting new mechanic since Megas and I think there's merit to keeping it around...for now. I do think that once the meta has calmed down significantly, a suspect wouldn't be a bad idea.
>>
>>52349691
Hell, even if you DID keep the old STAB but just didn't get Adaptability for Tera-ing into a type you already are, I feel like it wouldn't be as contentious as it is now.
>>
>>52346663
>>52346654
yeah i overlooked jugulis because
>108
but it does fulfill the role of fast specs attacker with a lot of coverage. also finally have an EQ switchin, which is nice

>>52349662
what does it do? just run specs and blow shit up? i swear everyone i see using moth on ladder wants to do some setup sweeper shit when it really doesn't have the stats for that

>>52347827
annihilape is just a retard check at this point. you can climb to like 1500 just by opening annihilape and clicking bulk up. it even works on people running annihilape!
>>
Grimmsnarl should be on the radar, with Parting Shot it's currently one of the most niggerish Pokémon imaginable.
>>
>>52350029
this is by far the most retarded statement ive heard so far
fucking sub 1100 players and their retard opinions
>>
Hey, so I suck shit at pokemon but I figured I'd try this game, what's a good set for farigarif doubles?
>>
Explain why do people think Smogon has a hard on for Toxapex
>>
>>52350779
Because they are shitters that can't figure out how to beat a passive Pokémon without resorting to using ubers.

The typical argument is as follows
>they banned Galarian Darmanitan because it can beat almost the entire meta, both offensive and defensive (but especially the former if Scarf)
>does "the entire meta" include Toxapex?
>uh, yes?
>REEEEE FUCKING SMOGONNIGGERS TOXAPEX LOVING GROOMERS

The more embarrassing variant is when they seethe about Toxapex or stall when the banned subject (such as Cinderace) is soft-countered by it and thus would mandate a bigger presence of Pex in the meta.
>>
>>52350779
They like games running for 400 turns so they can jerk off to them.
>>
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Volcarona is by far the most adaptable pokemon in AAA
it does not need an ability to perform it's essential function as a quiver dance sweeper with amazing coverage, so you can either choose to bolster it's offenses or grant it an immunity to give it value as a defensive pivot
I've given this thing Earth eater, Water Absorb, Magic Guard, Shadow Shield, even shit like Desolate land and Sunny day (though Iron Moth uses Desolate Land better)
>>
>>52350779
I don't get it either, especially because pex is well beyond saving in this gen
>>
defensive gyarados has seen more play than pex this gen
>>
>>52351657
smoggies are jonesing for their le 42% cat
>>
>>52351696
Tusk, Treads and Garchomp are the Lando replacements (Tusk is currently #1 in usage) and honestly they mog him without transfer moves as well. Maybe this tired meme will finally die this gen.
>>
>>52350923
Haven't even read this thread and just scrolled to the bottom but how many "they banned Palafin because it beats stall (when it actually makes offense fucking awful to load up)" takes have there been so far?
>>
>>52351766
/vp/ swings between "stallgon" and "omgon love HO" regularly.
>>
>>52323591
It's how I feel about Scyther this gen. With its new moves, the loss of its best STABs and the loss of Roost kinda crippled it from making it all the way to OU in what could've been its best Comp Generation. Especially since it has actually good coverage now, just a shame that it lost those moves in exchange, especially Roost.
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>>52323591
So is TTar
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>>52351847
ttar dropped to uu in gen 8
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>>52351833
Dual Wingbeat is such a fun Technician move, and it was ripped away just as quick as it was added.
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>>52351847
nope, TTars OU streak was broken at least once (maybe more than once) in gen 8
It dropped out, then went back up
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What’s the best nature for Baxcalibur? Adamant or Jolly? It’s speed isn’t great and it gets DDance, not sure if it’ll be better to go full into attack or being a little faster.
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I skipped gen 8 so I'm not used to dexcut metas, around when do we expect UU and other tiers to start popping up?
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>>52348975
Do what I do, the fuck-Cyclizar set

Meowsarada @ Heavy Duty Boots
Jolly 4 hp/252 atk/252 spd

Play Rough
Knock Off
Flower Gift
U turn
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>>52352109
2 months at least for UU to come out of beta. other tiers faster than that after it
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>>52349691
I think a Pokemon preventing a revenge-kill by switching into a completely different typing is probably more of a problem in the long run than pseudo-adaptability.
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>>52352128
What ability do you use on this?
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I fucking hate these bans
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>>52352259
Protean.

You see Cyclizar on the opposite team, send out Meowscarada immediately and hit that bitch with Play Rough. Most opponents send it out first.
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>>52352481
Why?
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>>52352597
They feel very reactionary instead of just giving these pokemon any time for the playerbase to work around it. I don't really pay attention to how smogon bans work but if the hands are on entitled players who know they will get what they want I won't be suprised.
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>>52352816
smogon bans work on votes from accomplished players
you can have a vote if you win tournaments or consistently place high on the ladder.
An alternate option is quickbans for things that the majority of the smogon audience agrees is too much for standard play.
If you enjoy any of the banned pokemon, you can play in Ubers where these banned pokemon thrive, or Anything goes, where even the most blatantly Overpowered nonsense is allowed to be played.
There's also the VGC format, played either ingame or in Smogon Doubles/Smogon VGC, where there is often a regional dex format at the beginning of the generation, that transitions into a restricted legendary format about a year or two afterwards.
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>>52353444
>you can play in Ubers where these banned pokemon thrive
Fuck off. There are plenty of pokemon who get banned to ubers and rot in obscurity because they are too weak in that metagame.
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>>52352094
Speed speed speed. Jolly 87 outspeeds adamant/modest base 100s, that's one threshold you want to hit.
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>>52352218
Absolutely. That shit is busted out the ass on natdex with the likes of Latios, Latias, Giratina-O having 0 weaknesses and Shadow Shield Lunala becoming a Fairy-type while knowing Moonblast.
The defensive element of tera synergizes too well with abilities, unlike protean. The mechanic does too much.
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>>52352094
As the other anon said speed, also you want to run this on snowteams, otherwise Dragonite is better as a generic fat DD.
Dragonite can also do the tera normal ekiller spam. Baxcaliber is hard to stop offensively at +1 with that bulk, even a scarf Lele can't cleanly OHKO it
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>>52353480
So? Being shit in ubers isn't an excuse to tear up OU.
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>>52351454
I feel like Simple would be amazing on Volcarona. Have you tried it?
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>>52353610
simple is probably one of those banned abilities you can't use.
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>>52350705
bump for this anon, im curious
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295 KB
295 KB JPG
hey bros anyone can give me a hand planning a set for my bro Kleavor? is he a weirdest Scizor moveset/statwise?
I built mine using Scizor as a template because I don't know what to do with him
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>>52350779
Toxapex absolutely demolishes shitters in gen 7/8
So do a lot of other pokemon but those just fucking kill your team in like 3 turns. Toxapex slowly picks them apart while regenerator and scald burns mean any progress is negated, leading to a buildup of cope and seethe. Pex can kinda simulate the entire stall experience even if it's on a balanced team.
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>>52346281
In 1v1 too?
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Why does the online matchmaking suck so hard? 90% of my casual battles connect and then nothing besides either waiting 3 minutes on a screen I cannot exit.
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>>52353742
He doesn't really have any of the aspects of Scizor leftover?
Its not really a mon based on sustain.(though scizor can't really do that either anymore) Its just big stabs or big stabs as its main abilities are sheer force and sharpness.
I'd say the utility of stone axe outweigh sheer force rock slide or whatever. Though sheer force comes with free Life Orb. His main stabs synergize with sharpness and sharpness is the naturally bigger boost.

You can also use trailblaze(or tailwind i suppose)+swords dance to theoretically sweep but that sounds pretty iffy. Its not ultra bulky. I think either a choice item or assvest is what he'd want.
Which is pretty obviously just x-scissor/stone axe/u-turn/filler(Close Combat?).
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>>52353884
you want CC on this thing for sure yeah
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If only Mabosstiff had a useable SpA stat, Stakeout Hyper Voice seems like it would have been a fun answer to Cyclizar. Only shitmons get Stakeout, alas.
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>>52350029
>what does it do? just run specs and blow shit up?
I personally love Agility 3A with Energy Ball and Tera Grass right now because there's maybe 2 things that can switch into this thing, and like 3 non meme mon that can revenge it after Agility
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>>52355030
At what juncture would you want to use Hyper Voice on Cyclizar?



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