>Gen IV>So brutally strong it had to be banned to Ubers>Gen IX>Glorified hazard stacking faggotHow did we fall so far chompbros>ou newsHoundstone, Flutter Mane banned>natdex newsPalafin, KB, Roaring Moon, Flutter Mane, Genesect, Deoxys-S, Houdstone, Naganadel bannedget in here
chomp was banned because of sand veil ban, niot because he was inherently busted
>>52322675Sounds like a cope to me, Chompy is still on a never broken OU streak even without DD and without Scale ShotDLC move tutor should give back Scale Shot at least
I'm surprised Chomp is still decent with the Weasel in the room. Also RIP Dragon Dance
Chomp with DD would be >= Baxcalibur and Dragapult in SV OUthey fear Chomp with a DD
>>52322675What would it take for chomp to actually drop from OU
>revival blessing smeargle will soon enter the natdex AG meta
>>52323845The way speed creep is going? Another generation.Even fucking Pawmot outspeeds it now.
>>52323845Giving Chomp spikes basically guarantees it never willRapid Spinners take damage removing the spikes from Rough Skin, most defoggers aren't going to enjoy taking hits from GarchompNo spiker has a spread as great as chomp, not even Deoxys-S, and spikes basically mean Mew or Deoxys-D aren't going to be used ever
so anyone uses Baxcalibur?
Meta is still chaotic but welcome back Dracovishhttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720521468-i06venjvq5gr2wbnebo1akl6txyc19lpw
>>52324468Yes, run Freeze Dry in case you face an unaware Quagsire or a Swampert without having set up first
>>52322675>Genesect, Deoxys-S, Naganadel bannedWhy do these faggots keep trying to test these Pokemon? 5 whole gens and you’d think that Genesect would just be a Perma Uber by now.
>>52324557Natdex dropped Blaziken, Deoxys-D in Gen 8 and Mega Blaziken is free in Gen 9 OUZamazenta-Crowned is also roaming natdex and isn't used because it's shit, even Hoopa-U is more commonI think it's reasonable to think that at some point Genesect and Deoxys-S will be bad enough to get unbanned, especially given how GF is giving everything minmax stats now. First the UBs, then the Galar legendaries, and now the Paradox mons.
You ever think we're reaching a point where there needs to be a tier in between OU and ubers?
>>52324468I tried running a ddance set, it's alrightBaxcalibur @ Loaded Dice Ability: Thermal Exchange Tera Type: Ice EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Dragon Dance - Icicle Spear - Glaive Rush - Earthquake
>>52324557GameFreak nuked movepools for the first time ever in SWSH and SV, the problem is natdex ignores this so Genesect is at full powerPerfectly reasonable to think that if Genesect lost coverage in ANY way, it would be allowed in OU
>>52324618OU singles needs to rely on defensive cores to prevent the game centralizing around suicide leads HO. Mons that overwhelm these cores while limiting other play styles have no place in OU and likely don't have a place in Ubers either, since they're not strong enough to hurt the cores there like Primal Groudon or Lunala.I think if we saw an increase in defensive mon BST we could see more Ubers mons drop into OU.
>>52324636>GameFreak nuked movepools for the first time ever in SWSHYeah like taking away Rock Polish and Magnet Rise from Aurorus when then Pokémon never needed a nerf in the first place.Don't worry because Incineror got Parting Shot to counter the Intimidate nerf and only popular Pokémon matter
>>52324696>OU singles needs to rely on defensive cores to prevent the game centralizing around suicide leads HO.There is nothing inherently wrong with a hyper offense-focused meta. Stallfags are mentally ill.
>>52322675>Mega balziken is natdex ou now>but a dead dog is too much
>>52323528Normally evasion is just a gimmick that's banned for enjoyment reasons but what is essentially a permanent 20% evasion boost on what would otherwise still be a top 3 pokemon is actually busted
>>52324900Nobody mentioned stall, why did you?Lando-Heatran-Corviknight are bulky defensive cores you don't see on stall usually.
>>52324957Normal Blaziken is actually better if it gets any setup chance, since you can use a Z-Move on it instead and that works way better in a HO meta
>>52325083Anything bulkier than Deoxys-A is stall, retard
Should I go Timid or Bold for bulky lead Glimmora?
Why did Ceruledge and Tapu Fini outspeed under sticky web?https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720624573
Whats a good team for doubles? Using only pokemon in Paldaea dex now.
>>52325083>corviknight>not a stallmon
>>52324618No, it's no different than trying to make BL a tier between OU and UU, the banlist should be treated as such instead of a playable tier. The dexcut and powercreep are the real problem.s
How is the pretzel dog?
>>52322675How influential are teratypes? haven't played much comp but was playing the game like a normalfag today and it said ice garchomp took away his 4x weakness and i was like woah yeah you right but would you ACTUALLY even do that like ever? should you just keep their teratype as one of their original types except for like electric for corviknight?
The autists running monotype up and banned tera outright while americans were busy with thanksgiving.on one hand they had it restricted to the shared type (which was an asinine decision to begin with) so when everything is using it for super-stab instead of using it to un-fuck matchups (which would have been actually fun and "healthy" whatever the fuck that means) so the loss of it now isnt that relevant.but on the other hand the real problem is they had it restricted like that in the first place because they're too far up their own anus to go "hey, flying SHOULDNT have to die to electric every time" and let the mechanic meant to allow a player to turn around bad matchups, to turn around bad matchups.
>>52322675>Palafin bannedYou're fucking with me, right?
>>52325708ceruledge is scarfed, it seems strange since the fini was also scarfedalso defensive lando is slower than a max speed fini>melmetaljfc what a monster>252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- approx. 2HKOterastal was a mistake
>>52326412>Palafin's brute strength has lead it to become the subject of many discussions in National Dex. The immense power of Choice Band + Water Tera + Wave Crash is simply far too much for teams to handle defensively, with even checks like Toxapex being 2HKOd by a resisted move. Whilst it may seem like this isn't that much of a problem in this metagame, it's also worth noting that Palafin also monopolizes the offensive metagame, being able to revenge kill several neutral targets from full HP with Choice Band Jet Punch. Several players also experimented with Palafin rain, and this further amplifies Palafin's already insane power to ridiculous levels. Even the bulkiest Water resists like Dondozo are cleanly 3HKOd by Wave Crash, Additionally, sets like Bulk Up + Taunt can also make dealing with Palafin harder than anticipated, as the ability for Palafin to boost its Jet Punch beyond the power of Choice Band makes it several times harder to revenge kill, and Taunt makes up for matchups against bulkier water resists, such as Dondozo and immunities, such as Gastrodon. As a result, Palafin was voted to be banned from National Dex.Unlike Ash-Greninja, Palafin has too much bulk and can also run setup sets. Ash-Gren was very reliant on its speed tier which matters less now that Zeraora, Dragapult and certain paradoxes exist in the tier.
>>52322675I was thinking that maybe palafin would start to fall off a bit once people better at playing around it's need to switch out first, but being too strong in natdex might prove that wrong
>>52326420Yeah, Gholdengo and Melmetal fuck over stall big time. Melmetal 2HKOs every stallmon except Skarmory, and Ghodengo walls a good chunk of stall as well. Basically only CM Blissey can beat it.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1720640184-iqhmxr2j3rvgr1okprxuf9yu6skq733pwIdeally everything should be paralyzed. Melmetal's parahax % is on par with Togekiss, except Togekiss isn't hitting you nearly as hard.
>>52326647Misconception is that broken mons are less broken in natdex. It's the opposite. Since natdex has to handle multiple threats, it can't centralize around one oppressive Pokemon. That's why Zamazenta-Crowned was never tested in Gen 7 despite being weak enough for the tier to deal with it in many ways.Gyarados is a great check to Palafin in natdex, but too much other broken shit like Iron Hands, Regieleki and Koko shit on Gyarados. The check isn't that splashable while Palafin literally is.
good resource for bss meta?
I just had an idea for a Noivern Infiltrator Normal Tera Type Boomburst spammer.Anyone know how good that would go?
>>52326315Not OU, might find a place in PU once tiers settle.>>52326380>plays monotype>complains about team previewkys>>52326712Melmetal's main problem is it's too slow and secondary problem is DIB has too low PP. It also struggles with Flying-types and Levitators that are immune to webs.Its best set imo is Gyro Ball/Acid Armor/Body Press/Discharge or Thunder Wave or Ice Beam or Toxic. With Toxic removed from OU Thunder Wave is all the more valuable. Sadly it doesn't learn Curse, which would be amazing on it.>>52326775Palafin is literally Ubers, 160 Attack with 60 BP STAB priority alongside 120 BP STAB and coverage alongside 100 speed is insane. It has good bulk, good defensive typing and can set up and taunt. Fucking crazy.The 'downside' was easily figured out by players simply using it like Ash-Greninja, to nab a kill and switch out. Flip Turn was subbed for Wave Crash and suddenly the tier has a bleeding asshole.
>>52327907Try it anon, it sounds sick
Why does Kingambit Disappoint me every fucking gameis it simply because I'm an ORASfag and Bisharp is top 5 in gen 6 OU?
>>52327976I plan to once I find a good Noibat ingame.I could see Modest/Timid *You already outspeed most things anyways so modest may be better*Life Orb/Choice Specs252 Sp.Atk/SpdHeat WaveBoomburstShadow BallAir Slash/Hurricane/Super Fang.
>>52328063wow Noivern is not as fast as I thought itd be
>>52328060He should objectively be good, people have to find better sets for him.You should run 144 speed on him to outspeed Corv and max atk adamant with rest on HP.Also I heard supreme overlord was not implemented correctly on showdown.
>>52328087Huh I expected that to be a smidgen faster too, but its still blazing past alot of the competition, especially if you have sticky web setup.
>palafin, roaring moon, misdreavus are goneWho is next?
>>52328146That's just natdex though.I think Dolphin and Cyclizard have to go. Potentially Iron Bundle and Anal-ape after that. The rest of the game is fixne.
>>52328169Yea I can't wait for them to ban every good offensive unit to bring back the stall meta.
>>52328200I mean, if you find it that amusing to be swept by whatever gets a sub from Cyclizard, go off.
>Skeledirge and Wo-Chien cover each others weaknesses beautifully, with only rock flying and dragon going unresistedWhat would be a good team for ingame battling with these two at the centre? Bonus points if you can fit Garganacl in there, I've literally never done anything comp related but the fact that two of my faves seen to gel so well makes me want to try
>>52328228is it more amusing to stare at a toxapex for 70 billion turns while it alternates between Recover and Baneful Bunker?
>>52328286If you haven't noticed, Toxapex is nowhere to be seen in the OU meta, because it's been gutted beyond repair with losing Scald and Knock.Now it's easy setup bait and certain mons are so strong they can 2HKO pex with neutral or resisted hits anyway.
>>52328286At 8 PP for recovery and no fucking Scald, it's really a skill issue if you can't handle Pex anymore. She also gets slapped pretty hard by a lot of the new threats, and you can score a surprise kill on most tanks due to tera, which immediately turns the tide. Not sure what you're crying about, I think it's much more reasonable to navigate because you can beat stalls with most well-rounded compositions. Things like Cyclizard>Dnite or Palafin require pretty damn specific counters RN or it's a sweep.
>>52324393As someone who skipped a couple gens, It’s kinda fucked that 102 speed is just alright these days.
>>52328321102 Speed is outright bad in natdex for an offensive Pokemon, Latios and Latias can boost their bulk immensely with Tera Electric without losing any offensive presence.As sad before, Garchomp is awesome as a hazard stacker. Spikes/Rocks/EQ/flex with Rough Skin is great.
the very second Palafin gets banned, you're gonna see Tera Water Barraskewda fuck assholes left and rightRain Teams stay as braindead as they ever were
>>52328400>Tera Water BarraskewdaYou mean Quaquaval. The duck is just Palafin but worse.In national dex, there's Mega Swampert who is bulkier, faster, and almost as strong as Palafin in rain. However, Swampert doesn't know Wave Crash (yet).
>>52328445Nah, i'd rather fish over the shitty duck that eat shit and dies more often than not.Its gimmick just isn't that good, it needs a turn to do much and it doesn't really have the bulk to pull it off. Its heavily predictable and overall just not good.
>>52328400>Rain Teams stay as braindead as they ever wereWe have fast and strong freeze dry user in a tier where no pokemon resist both of its stabs. Not to mention HO is dominating the game and blow away anything that takes time to set up.
>>52328200>the stall metaLmao retard you don't play the game do you
when will the first SV OU usage pic be out?
>>52328893is switching in really setting up?
Palafin under rain is broken as shit. FUCKING BAN IT ALREADY, THERE IS NO COUNTER
>>52328400You dumbfuck PALAFIN IS WAY STRONGER THAN BARRA SHIT AND LESS FRAIL. ALSO THERE ARE PEOPLE RUNNING BOTH
>>52328313Pex is dead, there are better options out there now.
>use tera dragon choice scpecs adaptaility dragalge in a trick room expecting to oneshot everything>it doesn't one shot anythingeither smogon has some fucked up damage calculations with tera or dragalge just suck
>>52329165>DragonYes one shot everything huh? How the fuck you wanna get past fairy you moron?
Assault Vest Scream Tail is such a "fall for it once" type of set
>>52329189the question is about damage calculations you retard
So assuming nothing else gets banned, what new mons will still be ou after the new toy syndrome wears out
For being Bisharp 2.0, I sure am hearing nothing about him. Did the speed drop or giving Bisharp eviolite hurt its chances?
>>52329379Bisharp only has like 2% more bulk with Eviolutethe problem is that Bisharp tightcasted role isn't very good these daysit runs swords dance, Iron Head, Sucker Punch, filler. Powerful yes, but the lack of widespread intimidate and Defog makes it difficult to get a defiant boost, which is 1000% better than Supreme Overlord. Also no STAB Knock off will always be a shame.
>Blessed with all this shit>Still UU trash
Almost any Ability is such a fun Metagame
>>52326530>3hko with wave crash>On don >This is a complaint from the stallfagsDon literally can murder the dolphin with body press while it takes it's recoil
Gholdenchads won so hardThe current top 3 OU mons are Palafin, Donphan and Gholdengo
>>52329165Does terra dragon stacks with adaptability? That has been one of my biggest question with this gimmick.
>>52330061retard readit says Toxapex
Anyone here playing BSS? I’m wanted to make Annihilape and Clodsire work together so I paired them with Rotom-W for screens, but that leaves me a bit too vulnerable to fast psychic types
>>52330090It should be a 25% boost aka less than life orb, that's why anon didn't notice any changes
>>52330094Reading is for gay people, you stinky homo
The OU Council will be voting to ban or keep these mons:Palafin, Iron Bundle, Gholdengo, Annihilape (lul)The acceleration towards bulky offense triple regenerator boots meta is beginning
>>5233012625% is so fucking good on offensive pokemonTera Water in Rain is a deadly offensive threat
>>52330110There aren't too many fast psychics currently in the game so i wouldn't be that worried about it.
>using tera on a Ghost type to get boosts with Curse insteadI'd imagine this would work. But would it be worth using tera like this?
>>52330941Golurkbros, it's time.
>>52326315Shit tier but you can use it as a funny Koraidon hard counter in Ubers.
>>52330615Gholdengo will survive, at least for now. It makes Corviknight bad at hazard control but it has a really rough time preventing the Donphan bros from doing their job since it cannot switch in at all even with Balloon. Toedscruel is also a funny option that can Spore it through Good as Gold but it barely does anything else.But if we're being fully honest him staying won't prevent the meta from devolving into boots spam and if anything it will favor it due to hazard control being less effective.
>>52323528It got banned because back then fags wanted a pokemon that is able to switch into Garchomp, survive it and kill it next turn. And there were none. Same reason Salamence was booted. Sand veil just made it even more egregious.
here's a meme set i might throw at showderp inspired by >>52330941GREGOR (Annihilape) @ Punching Glove Ability: Defiant Tera Type: Normal EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD Careful Nature - Rage Fist - Drain Punch - Gunk Shot/Earthquake- Cursethe plan is to use it to bait in checks like gholdengo/other powerful ghosts, then go tera normal to tank them and change type for curse, set up boosts with curse, then go to town, i feel like EQ is probably better than gunk shot, and there's probably better options than punching glove for items (lum berry, leftovers), but it's a start
>>52330615I think Iron Bundle is OK in natdexBut Gholdengo, Palafin, rape ape and Iron Hands are bonkersIron Hands needs to get booted from natdex, the electric terrain teams are nasty shit
>>52331355>Iron Hands needs to get booted from natdex, the electric terrain teams are nasty shitIsn't mostly every future Paradox nasty with Electric Terrain? Wouldn't it be simpler to just ban Tapu Koko in this case?
>>52331352on an extra note, it outspeeds uninvested gholdengo and OHKOs it with a curse boost 100 BP rage fist
I've always been a Hariyamafag but Iron Hands is next level. I've never loved a Pokemon this much.
>>52331352The problem with this set is that there is no reason to use Curse over Bulk Up even with Tera.
>>52331433wait it gets bulk up?man i'm stupid
The real Curse meme should be a non-ghost type with Curse tera-ing into a Ghost type.This mon should have either regenerator or Recover to abuse it
>>52331371It isn't just Koko, because Regieleki can manually set up terrain and screens and I was seeing both on teams + Quark Drive
>>52331420Why did U-Turn heal?
>>52331316Shadow Shield Volcarona is so fun
>>52331463The next attack was going to be Drain Punch but the opponent disconnected and the game spazzed out.I think the game does not handle Ally Switch particularly well either
>>52331523though it's impossible for Drain Punch to have healed 168 HP from a level 50 Roaring Moon. Even with Max HP and a Big Root it wouldn't work. No idea what happened
>>52330615see ya, dolphin!
supposing annihilape gets the boot, is there really no merit to primeape? it has a better speed tier, the attack is barely lower and eviolite being knocked off kickstarts RF while being a free BU/DP. overall it's quite obvious that it doesn't have a niche over the evo now, but I think it could see some fringe play
>tera ice choice scarf dazzling bruxishit deals with more thank you'd think
>>52331838Losing STAB and the lower HP stat are big deals.
Why not just ban Rage Fist instead of annihilape ?
>>52331879in terms of comparing it to its evo you're right, but I'm wondering whether if the latter and palafin were to be banned primeape would fill their niche of denying stall. you're still a bulky taunt+bu that fucks over slowbro, has alternative scaling to overcome unaware mons and isn't revenge killed easily
>>52331971Annihilape can take a hit, while Primeape is much more weary about that. And its Rage Fist is always going to be 50% weaker unless you burn your Tera on it.
Is it ever a better choice to drop a single spike over stealth rocks?
>>52332274I don't understand what your question is, but a single layer of Spikes does more damage to Steel, Ground and Fighting types.
>>52331905because its the signature move of Annihilape.If rage fist is banned and another pokemon comes that doesnt use it as well, should that pokemon be unable to use rage fist? no
>>52333786>If rage fist is banned and another pokemon comes that doesnt use it as well, should that pokemon be unable to use rage fist? noThis is already the case, Primeape can learn it and Basculin can learn Last Respects too for that matter.
>>52334066Basculin can't learn Last Respects, and Basculegion is unavailable.
>>52333786if a "healthy" metagane is one that promotes variety then it stands to reason that an easily isolated element should be removed first instead of the pokemon that could easily still run other sets. Instead however, smogon council members are too autistic to revise their policies in response to generational changes, because they have become too complacent and are not forced to answer to anyone in response to their shit. They are quite litterally gatekeeping competitive singles in the worst way possible.
>>52334188>Smogon council membersmotherfucker just have a high ladder score and vote
>>52334151>Basculin can't learn Last RespectsThe White Striped one can, Basculegion gets it as a egg move.
oh man AAA lets you be so creative
>>52334207Is White Stripe available?
>>52334239Earth Eater for A-Muk.
>>52334333he probably won't come to gen 9 anon
>>52334705Alolan Muk is a Home transfer and will save OU
how the fuck is annihilape "broken" its really good but seems pretty healthy for the meta. sorry you don't get to spam your risk free u-turns anymore. is he banned because he gets rewarded off of switching into a 4x resisted move?
>>52334705It's already in the game.
>>52334744if it was like 120 Max it'd be great350 max for any single hit is just obnoxious, it starts being good after just a single hit
>>52334744It's broken because it lingers between switches and gets ridiculously high. This gen just loves its no-drawback 200+BP moves before STAB or type effectiveness.
>>52334862oh noes! a ghost type with a decent physical STAB. ban NAO
>>52334895350 power is way better than "decent"
>>52334895>100 BP after a single hit>"decent"lol
>>52322675What is KB?
anihilape punishes you for spamming u-turn and using weak attacks. stop using weak attacks. Git gud and learn to predict. but the OU council couldn't even predict which smogon admin will be exposed for pedophelia next.
>>52334958Predict what? Does every Pokemon need to carry a strong enough Flying, Psychic, or Ghost move to OHKO Annihilape?
>>52334978no. stop fucking spamming u-turn everywhere when theres a powerful pokemon that feasts on retards spamming u-turnactually fucking think for once.
>>52335010It's not just U-Turn that powers up Rage Fist, dumpass.
First VGC team I've been having decent success with, thoughts?
>>52334744It's not broken its just good and the council is beholden to the retards screeching in the threads so they have to do a superficial vote on the matter to appease them. just like real life lelIf they didn't ban Palafin or Roaring Moon on first pass by a pretty wide margin I doubt they'd ever give a single vote to the ape.Nego on the other might be fucked until we get a single hazard remover that can threaten it out while it has balloon.
>>52335339How is Jumpluff working out for you? I run a Paradox heavy sun team and I’m thinking of swapping out the Maushold I have but never use for one.
>>52335377Pretty decent, sometimes it just gets off a tailwind and dies but a lot of the time that's enough. I chose covert cloak over sash since it's going to outspeed pretty much everything and get a tailwind off anyways. If it lives, great, I can try to get off a sleep powder or buy my other pokemon a turn with rage powder.It's possible there's something better, but it's definitely not the worst choice.
>>52335010Try actually fighting Annihilape for once and tell me how easy it is to not click a weak or resisted attack ever so that it doesn't get any boosts.
>>52335354>Nego on the other might be fucked until we get a single hazard remover that can threaten it out while it has balloon.We already have two, they are called Great Tusk and Iron Treads with Knock Off.
>>52325216>Deoxys-A has 20 Base Defense and S. DefHoly shit, 99.5% of the Dex is Stall.
What should I give my ceruledge? One of the choice stuff or something else? OU smogon
>>52335891What are you trying to use it as for your team?
>>52335981It works like a physical chandelure right? Switch in for the flash fire and get some kills in I guess.
1500 elo means i'm ok at the game right?
What are shits to change
Looked up that Iron Thorns has the strongest Rock Blast. This any good? Iron Thorns @ Loaded Dice Ability: Quark Drive Tera Type: Electric EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature - Dragon Dance - Rock Blast - Thunder Punch - Ice Punch
I love clodsire bros
is appletun good in this one or nahsame question for salamence
>>52339569Imagine forfeiting when you still have a physical sweeper against clodsire
>>52339636Salamence isn't very good no.It kinda stopped being good in Gen 4
>>52339636appletun has a bit of a niche thanks to the strong water types going around, apple acid is a pretty good tool that lets it win 1v1s against other setup monsters and whatever walls body press. the mons it predates on are most likely getting banned this week but the lack of toxic and phazers still benefits it.mence's niche is definitely intimidate, it's one of the few mons with the full set of desirable defensive tools in the tier (recovery with roost, phazing with tail, good bulk with intimidate and threatens to do something back with very strong moves backed up by good offenses). as a DD abuser dragonite is preferred because of multiscale and espeed, but it's not like mence is strictly inferior even here. for once nite would suck dick for dual wingbeat
>>52336077It still kinda depends on your team. If your hazard removal is spotty, Boots would be a very good item on it. It means that you can switch it in whenever you predict a fire move without worrying about rocks. If you really want to just blast through walls with the flash fire boost, though, go for choice band.
>>52339636>appletunOnly decent grass mon in the game after Amoonguss gives it a niche for now. >menceOvershadowed hard by Moon and DNite.
>>52339745>>52339857>>52339974thank you for your service I love you all
>>52335339>BelliboltHow does this thing werk?
Is Snow viable in doubles?I really like setting up Aurora veil but Slowking taking a turn to set it up seems rough.
>>52338387What’s the average on /vp/? Specifically in this general.
>>52340041Its viable. Abomasnow himself learns aurora veil now and the def boost should make his physically tanky despite dogshit typing.Iron bundle learns veil too if you want a fast setter and he has 115 def for some reason for massive defense in hail
>>52340476Maybe. I peaked at 1400 in gen 6 OU around a month after ORAS dropped, which isn’t that good to be honest like i wouldn’t be surprised if 1300-1500 is just the “casual competitive” zone.
>>52322675I just found out that not only does Punching Glove only boost punching moves by 10% instead of 50%, but it also doesn’t stack with Iron Fist. This has killed my idea of ultra Mach Punch Pawmot, but I still want to use her. Is there another build that’s good? I saw some people saying Double Shock Electric Tera is good, is it really?
>>52340903According to what I've last read on Smogon, it does stack but it's still only 10%.
I've never been into competitive Pokemon before. Should I study up on VGC format or whatever the Smogon stuff is?
https://pokepast.es/1599b6f5bb1a40acheres a rain team that doesnt use palafin or iron bundle. got to 1500 with this.iron jugulis' fourth move can be changed to something else if you want like another coverage move. kilowattrel is based tera fire tatsugiri is a counter to iron bundle, just dont switch in on freeze dry before the tera. also owns gholdengo if it try to spinblock you.tinkaton is a good utility mon, good for switching in on freeze drys and dragapults. barraskewda is your standard swift swimmer in rain. ghost tera to check ekiller dnite because thats the only thing you can do to not autolose. in hindsight, you can prob make iron jugulis tera ghost which would make more sense.
>>52341010So would it be worth it to go Punching Glove Iron Fist? I guess that’s the same as a Life Orb without the recoil but that also means grinding for a Patch.
>>52341045What do you want to play:>6v6 SinglesSmogon>4v4 DoublesVGC>3v3 SinglesJapanese sites or Smogon
>>52324363They're not going to program the move in anon.
>>52341121I know nothing about the intricacies of the different formats and how they play. Are any a better starting spot?
>>52341151Experience is the best teacher, just pick one and start playing, it's the start of the gen so everyone is messing around trying to figure out what works. Do what everyone else does: whenever something beats you either copy it or figure out how to counter it. Smogon's mainly played on Pokemon Showdown and while you can play the other formats there, the other formats are bigger on the cart.
>>52326530how can people type words like "monopolizes the offensive metagame" about the weakest ladder on showdown where anyone outside the top 10 is pretty much only using samples or meme teams
I'm trying a trick room team with arboliva/dirge/king/nacl/gambit, who do I put for last in order not to get destroyed by chienpao?
>>52342103sold, it looks like a good tr abuser tooI'm worried about only having 1 setter but I'll have to make do unless I want to use klefki
The smogon council is trying to hard to deviate from the HO meta to the point they going to ban every new pokemon.
What's the value of the "X of Ruin" abilities?
>>52343317Clowning on doublesLetting Chi Yu and Chien Pao kill things they have no right in killingLetting Wo Chien and Ting Lu live shit they have no right living (took less than half from a Flutter Mane moonblast with Ting today)
>>52343723>>52343317Sorry I asked in a retarded way. How much do they lower the respective stats by?
>>52331905Annihilate is pretty strong even without Rage Fist. Ghost/Fighting is an insane typing
>>52344192Oh its 25% of the base stat. Says it right there on showdown.
>Battle Bus (Orthworm) @ Leftovers Ability: Earth Eater EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Sassy Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Shed Tail - Rest - Body Press - Heavy SlamIs this worth using over Cyclizar? It pretty much guarantees a free turn for my set up sweeper after i switch this in when i have my hazards up, and or when im done removing my hazards.Slapping moves is easy for me to understand, while the evs really arent besides unga bunga shit
>>52342554Most of the mons are batshit insane even without considering terastal.
>>52344378Use sitrus berry to guarantee the sub from 100% no matter what, 1 good sub is enough to win games.
>>52344378252/252Def/4 filler Impish is a better spread as it walls Iron Treads.
>>52344939>>52344615Huh, guess that makes sense, keeps it alive long enough to do its shit. This was the team I had in mind, but couldnt come up with the last mon. Maybe a cleaner or another set up sweeper in case i have the opportunity>https://pokepast.es/9c246a502aef7d26
>>52345121Great Tusk @ Booster Energy Ability: Protosynthesis Tera Type: Fighting EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe - Earthquake- Body Press - Rapid Spin - Bulk UpFixed your Tusk, you could alternatively run 248 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe if you are more consistent in passing subs to it and can get 2+ bulk ups off. 252 Jolly matters for Tusk since at +1 it actually outspeeds threats. Last mon should be an offensive answer to Chien-Pao so Orthworm isn't your only option vs it, Scizor or Slither Wing come to mind.
>>52345294Like so?Larvesnuggie (Slither Wing) @ Booster Energy Ability: Protosynthesis Tera Type: Fighting EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - First Impression - Close Combat - Earthquake - Leech LifeSeems weird running three booster energies but hey its better than three bootsnothin has odd number feet
>>52345369Should have added Knock Off over rapid spin on Tusk as an option if you're facing a lot of opposing Glimmora+Gholdengo teams.>Slither WingSlither Wing @ Booster EnergyAbility: ProtosynthesisTera Type: BugEVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpeAdamant Nature- Bulk Up / First Impression- Morning Sun / Flame Charge / Flare Blitz / Earthquake- Leech Life- Close CombatDon't have much experience with this guy but I'm not seeing what you outspeed with the investment so I'd opt for bulk instead. >Seems weird running three booster energiesYou're running a suicide lead hyper offense team that exploits shed tail, you need to blast through your opponent's team ASAP, the longer the game goes the less advantage you have.
>>52339860Oh yeah boots could be good. Thanks anon.
It's hopeless to use Pincurching, isn't it?Any luck with manual ET? Or are futuremons doomed to be itemsluts?
>>52345730>Any luck with manual ET?It's a waste of a precious moveslot just like rain dance was on rain mons in Gen4.
>>52345730>It's hopeless to use Pincurching, isn't it?You can make ET work just need to be more creative. More and more people found a way to use torkoal as an entry cleaner with grass tera while boosting Protomons.
>>52345928Torkoal is already decent as a mon though(good movepool, focused stats). Pinchurchin was already pretty iffy when it had a nuke move.It doesn't even have Rising Voltage anymore.
What have you guys been using on BSS? Great Tusk has been winning me a lot of matches. I love dumpstering on toxapex with headlongrush+booster energy. I was thinking of swapping to a band for extra power.
>>52345622>Booster EnergyGenuinely, you should just use a Life Orb if you're doing it for damage. Losing your boost if you switch out is way too much of a cost, and the HP recoil is completely irrelevant in the current meta that defavors stall.
>>52346001Oh yeah, and I even forgot that Protosynthesis is 1.3x damage rather than 1.5x.Booster Energy on any stat other than speed is worthless.
>>52346001>>52346024And additionally, Booster Energy doesn't stack with weather boost, so you're potentially losing another 1.3x damage from ability if you don't go Life Orb.
>>52345988Either of the donphans are really good yeah. Glimmora hits like a truck and gives free setup, thats probably been my most successful mon thinking on it.>>52346001> and the HP recoil is completely irrelevant in the current meta that defavors stall.Uh huh, its totally irrelevant to bring yourself into death range. Chip is still incredibly relevant in an aggressive meta.
Why can't I terastallize on showdown anymore?
>>52345988https://pokepast.es/5bc6d68e9a032ff0Grimmsnarl Screens teams are probably better, but this puts in the work against anything lacking priority taunt.
>>52346142Grimmsnarl makes me upset and forces me to run a scizor.
Goodbye Palafin. You were able to kill their stall favourites, so you had to go.
>>52346107just did this battle. You can tera on showdown>https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721658740Just mad that people always know EXACTLY how to defeat my team
>>52346281You fucked up by teraing Moon infront of a dark mon that was spamming sucker punch.
>>52346331I didnt have a sub up at all though
>>52346248If you think about it, isn't being banned to Uber just a testament to how GODLY PalaChad is?
>>52346370Consider running 32 HP / 220 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe on Moon so you don't lose ditto speed ties.
How good is Scizor after losing out on roost and what are some good options for him now?
>>52346531cizor @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty BootsAbility: TechnicianTera Type: SteelEVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD Adamant Nature- Swords Dance- Bullet Punch- Close Combat- U-TurnTera steel Bullet Punch is the anti cancer.
are there any viable special attackers other than gholdengo and skeledirge? i just want something that's decently fast and isn't weak to ghost
Where would Dudunsparce fall? Can teach the fucker everything and its pretty fat
>>52346623Volcarona or Iron moth
>>52346623Chi-Yu, Glimmora, Iron Valiant kinda. Iron Jugulis is perfectly fine; just not very exciting.Iron Moth. And obviously there's a few in the returning mon pool.
>>52346623>Dragapult>Magnezone>Rotom>Volcarona>Chi-Yu>Iron Jugulis>Iron Moth>Iron Valiant
am i the only one running punching glove on annihilape instead of lefties
>>52346787What is the extra 10% damage beating? Is the damage boost that significant with Drain Punch that it out heals the other options? Lefties or Chesto Rest looks better because of all the hit you have to eat.
>>52323652>>52323845Garchomp has enough going for it that I don't think it'll ever stop being decent.Not the top dog anymore, but always viable enough.
>>52324618I think Smogon needs to accept that every gen's OU should be different.Right now, it feels like they're judging the gen 9 mons by gen 8 standards.The Smogon of today would quickban Rampardos and Haxorus if they were new.
>>52347714>shit retards that don't play sayAll 6 of these bans are justified.
>AIIIEEEEEEE!!!>i-is that a pokemon that doesn't automatically lose to STALL????????>TO UBERS WITH YOU! AG!!! OUT OF MY SIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>52330615Rape Ape is unironically healthy.Overpowered, yes, but it's not a mon you can just send out like a retard and instantly win with, or a mon that actively punishes the opponent for playing well.Rage Fist only does monstrous damage if your opponent lets it.
>>52347813>lose to STALLStall has been #1 on the ladder before any of the bans and after them. You don't play the game.
>>52331905Smogon values consistency over common sense.See the fact that they didn't want to ban Last Respects because they couldn't prove that the 300 BP move was the problem rather than the perfectly mediocre mon that gets it.
>>52347863>stall is #1 on the ladder>in smogons world>the sun also rose, in equally shocking news.
RIP Palafin and Iron Bundle. Pretty sure half of my team is dead, haven't played much since like day 2 of Showdown.
>>52345730Torkoal and Pincurchin are unironically bad in this meta.Everyone is using the paradox mons. You'll be giving your opponent a boost as well.Using Life Orb is a good idea if you're boosting an attacking stat so that you keep the boost after switching and so you can get a double boost if your opponent has Pincurchin or Torkoal.
>>52347885>before any of the bans>anon can't read>water is wet, in equally shocking news
I don't care about this autistic Smogon banning onions shit. What are the broken mons people will be running in the actual game once comp comes out?
>>52348010if stall was #1 it wouldn't have been getting BTFO by a dolphin and a robotic penguin bad enough that they had to be quickbanned out.
>>52348011Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle, neither require a turn of setup to unga bunga.
Next is Weavile Sr.
>the max sp.def giga drain/energy ball Florges I was theorymonning to check/counter Iron Bundle is now defunctOh well. My tests of it seemed to have potential, but it’s still a serviceable wish passer. Shame it lost access to aromatherapy.
>>52348038Stall was the only playstyle that could run Dondozo/Slowbro/Alomomola/etc and Blissey to beat them, you'd know this if you actually played.
>>52348107as if bundle didnt just freeze dry the first three while fin dominated the shit out of blissey
>>52348070Chien Pao turned out to be not super broken because he lacks the high base power moves of weavile.Chien's best ice move is effectively 110 power, Weavile's is 120For Dark its 105 vs 97.5 but no item being knocked offOnce move tutor comes he gets banned
>>52347795We'll never know if they were justified because the meta never got to adapt.That's the problem. Everyone is just using whatever has the biggest numbers.Nobody understands this meta yet.Imagine if Dracovish was banned in under a week before people even had a chance to start using Seismitoad. Even if that ban was ultimately the right decision, I fundamentally disagree with jumping the gun like that.
>>52347795>6 bans in under 2 weeks>potentially going to ban teraYes, we are dealing with logical people here, and not histrionic autists who judge their own worth based upon their ELO
>>52348125>actually thinking all three of those water types are on the same team play the game
>>52348622you've tried to shift the goalposts only to fuck yourself over. duh they're not all being run on one team but they're the only semi-reliable answers to the two.
>>52329998A shame it doesn't let us give Huge Power to shitmonsHuge missed opportunity
shed tail screens is probably the most oppressive thing ive ever played against on multiple gens of OU this shit is just almost impossible unless you bring your own HO (and hope you get a better matchup) or you play stall
>>52348975Brick Break is a thingPhasing is a thing
>>52348145I partially agree, but also I think having to use Toad on every team for 2 months straight despite being a total shitmon outside of answering Vish sucked ass, and Vish was still broken even with everybody running Toad. I feel Palafin is even worse because at least Vish HAD consistent answers. Palafin can theoretically beat any of its counters and you have no way of knowing until it comes in and hits you. Flutter Mane has the 3rd highest base speed in the tier, a pretty much perfect stat spread and out of this world coverage. Sure, I think they could have waited a little longer before booting them, but I think it would just be delaying the inevitable. I don't think the meta could have ever properly adapted to them.
>>52348989>brick break yes i will use this really bad move that's only good for this one team archetype but be useless for everything else >phasing i thought /vp/ didn't like stall?
What /vp/ struggles to understand is that these super strong and fast breakers such as Iron Bundle force you to run fat Pokémon like Blissey because it's the only consistent answer. Or they just beat everything like Palafin and Flutter Mane so it doesn't matter either way. You can see that in the ban announcement Chink-Pao, Roaring Moon and Goldman got a unanimous no ban vote so evidently they aren't against letting very strong things be for the time being. Just not unreasonably strong. You
>>52349306>Muh /vp/ is soooo stupidSo why won't you stay on your smoggie forums
>>52349382Not your safespace, retard.
>>52324464This. They basically made Chomp into an Offensive Ferrothorn, this shit is sticking around forever
Just found an interesting set for Dragonite:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8GM0Fa3Fi4Makes me wonder how much Arcanine could benefit from T-Normal + Extreme Speed, while being helpful with it's Intimidate, and being faster than Dragonite. Sucks that it lost Burn Up.
Honestly people need to take a look at Tauros-Padea-Water. It doesn't get SD but between Intimidate, BU, Raging Bull, CC, and a 4th move of your choice between EQ/Trailblaze/Bulldoze/Tera Blast Fairy/etc, it's actually solid into a lot of shitMy spread for it rn is Tauros-Paldea-Water @ Leftovers Ability: Intimidate Tera Type: Fairy EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Bulk Up - Raging Bull - Close Combat - Tera BlastNot as strong as Quaquaval but it doesn't have to be>>52324745>Don't worry because Incineror got Parting Shot to counter the Intimidate nerf and only popular Pokémon matterDidn't it get it last gen?>>52325692I like Timid because you always outspeed standard Great Tusk and can Mortal Spin on it.>>52326315Bad but it'll probably find a nice spot in a lower tier. Mono Fairy is a good defensive type, it gets some decent moves, and a Fire immunity on top of all that gives it some merit>>52327907Sounds like fun. Could also be fun to pair it with Specs Pult with Tera Ghost so you can base your Infiltrator Tera off whatever you're fighting.>>52328200>Stall metaFucking lmao, there hasn't been a legit stall meta anywhere since Mega Sableye ORAS. NAtdex last gen was an offensive shitshow with the occasional bulky team to bolster it>>52329320After these past two bans? At bare minumum these guys are sticking around, at least until suspects get under way>Roaring Moon >Chien Pao >Gholdengo >Glimmora >Great Tusk >Chi Yu >Iron Valiant>Iron Moth>Iron Treads>Cyclizar>Dodonzo>Clodsire>>52346248Stall was the only archetype that didn't get manhandled turn 1 by it, fuck Palafin. Now I can actually run fun shit
>>52346531I'm personally a huge fan of this set at the moment Scizor @ Life Orb Ability: Technician Tera Type: Electric EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe Adamant Nature - Bullet Punch - Close Combat - Swords Dance - Tera Blast+2 Life Orb Bullet Punch mulches almost everything in the game right now, and everything that survives that get mulched by either Close Combat or +2 Tera Electric Tera Blast. Dodonzo is a bitch though, so be carefulBut the set >>52346590 suggested is also good
>>52346623Tera Grass Iron Moth is really cool right now
>>52349526Probably not as much because no Dragon DAnce or EQ to cover its weakpoints. Also no Multiscale to guarantee setup
Tera still boosting the old STABs is really regrettable, if it didn't I feel nobody would talk about a ban right now. It was SO close to being well balanced but it is what it is.
>>52349691Agreed, but I still think Tera is easily the most interesting new mechanic since Megas and I think there's merit to keeping it around...for now. I do think that once the meta has calmed down significantly, a suspect wouldn't be a bad idea.
>>52349691Hell, even if you DID keep the old STAB but just didn't get Adaptability for Tera-ing into a type you already are, I feel like it wouldn't be as contentious as it is now.
>>52346663>>52346654yeah i overlooked jugulis because >108 but it does fulfill the role of fast specs attacker with a lot of coverage. also finally have an EQ switchin, which is nice>>52349662what does it do? just run specs and blow shit up? i swear everyone i see using moth on ladder wants to do some setup sweeper shit when it really doesn't have the stats for that>>52347827annihilape is just a retard check at this point. you can climb to like 1500 just by opening annihilape and clicking bulk up. it even works on people running annihilape!
Grimmsnarl should be on the radar, with Parting Shot it's currently one of the most niggerish Pokémon imaginable.
>>52350029this is by far the most retarded statement ive heard so farfucking sub 1100 players and their retard opinions
Hey, so I suck shit at pokemon but I figured I'd try this game, what's a good set for farigarif doubles?
Explain why do people think Smogon has a hard on for Toxapex
>>52350779Because they are shitters that can't figure out how to beat a passive Pokémon without resorting to using ubers.The typical argument is as follows>they banned Galarian Darmanitan because it can beat almost the entire meta, both offensive and defensive (but especially the former if Scarf)>does "the entire meta" include Toxapex?>uh, yes? >REEEEE FUCKING SMOGONNIGGERS TOXAPEX LOVING GROOMERSThe more embarrassing variant is when they seethe about Toxapex or stall when the banned subject (such as Cinderace) is soft-countered by it and thus would mandate a bigger presence of Pex in the meta.
>>52350779They like games running for 400 turns so they can jerk off to them.
Volcarona is by far the most adaptable pokemon in AAAit does not need an ability to perform it's essential function as a quiver dance sweeper with amazing coverage, so you can either choose to bolster it's offenses or grant it an immunity to give it value as a defensive pivotI've given this thing Earth eater, Water Absorb, Magic Guard, Shadow Shield, even shit like Desolate land and Sunny day (though Iron Moth uses Desolate Land better)
>>52350779I don't get it either, especially because pex is well beyond saving in this gen
defensive gyarados has seen more play than pex this gen
>>52351657smoggies are jonesing for their le 42% cat
>>52351696Tusk, Treads and Garchomp are the Lando replacements (Tusk is currently #1 in usage) and honestly they mog him without transfer moves as well. Maybe this tired meme will finally die this gen.
>>52350923Haven't even read this thread and just scrolled to the bottom but how many "they banned Palafin because it beats stall (when it actually makes offense fucking awful to load up)" takes have there been so far?
>>52351766/vp/ swings between "stallgon" and "omgon love HO" regularly.
>>52323591It's how I feel about Scyther this gen. With its new moves, the loss of its best STABs and the loss of Roost kinda crippled it from making it all the way to OU in what could've been its best Comp Generation. Especially since it has actually good coverage now, just a shame that it lost those moves in exchange, especially Roost.
>>52323591So is TTar
>>52351847ttar dropped to uu in gen 8
>>52351833Dual Wingbeat is such a fun Technician move, and it was ripped away just as quick as it was added.
>>52351847nope, TTars OU streak was broken at least once (maybe more than once) in gen 8It dropped out, then went back up
What’s the best nature for Baxcalibur? Adamant or Jolly? It’s speed isn’t great and it gets DDance, not sure if it’ll be better to go full into attack or being a little faster.
I skipped gen 8 so I'm not used to dexcut metas, around when do we expect UU and other tiers to start popping up?
>>52348975Do what I do, the fuck-Cyclizar setMeowsarada @ Heavy Duty BootsJolly 4 hp/252 atk/252 spdPlay RoughKnock OffFlower GiftU turn
>>523521092 months at least for UU to come out of beta. other tiers faster than that after it
>>52349691I think a Pokemon preventing a revenge-kill by switching into a completely different typing is probably more of a problem in the long run than pseudo-adaptability.
>>52352128What ability do you use on this?
I fucking hate these bans
>>52352259Protean.You see Cyclizar on the opposite team, send out Meowscarada immediately and hit that bitch with Play Rough. Most opponents send it out first.
>>52352597They feel very reactionary instead of just giving these pokemon any time for the playerbase to work around it. I don't really pay attention to how smogon bans work but if the hands are on entitled players who know they will get what they want I won't be suprised.
>>52352816smogon bans work on votes from accomplished playersyou can have a vote if you win tournaments or consistently place high on the ladder.An alternate option is quickbans for things that the majority of the smogon audience agrees is too much for standard play.If you enjoy any of the banned pokemon, you can play in Ubers where these banned pokemon thrive, or Anything goes, where even the most blatantly Overpowered nonsense is allowed to be played.There's also the VGC format, played either ingame or in Smogon Doubles/Smogon VGC, where there is often a regional dex format at the beginning of the generation, that transitions into a restricted legendary format about a year or two afterwards.
>>52353444>you can play in Ubers where these banned pokemon thriveFuck off. There are plenty of pokemon who get banned to ubers and rot in obscurity because they are too weak in that metagame.
>>52352094Speed speed speed. Jolly 87 outspeeds adamant/modest base 100s, that's one threshold you want to hit.
>>52352218Absolutely. That shit is busted out the ass on natdex with the likes of Latios, Latias, Giratina-O having 0 weaknesses and Shadow Shield Lunala becoming a Fairy-type while knowing Moonblast.The defensive element of tera synergizes too well with abilities, unlike protean. The mechanic does too much.
>>52352094As the other anon said speed, also you want to run this on snowteams, otherwise Dragonite is better as a generic fat DD.Dragonite can also do the tera normal ekiller spam. Baxcaliber is hard to stop offensively at +1 with that bulk, even a scarf Lele can't cleanly OHKO it
>>52353480So? Being shit in ubers isn't an excuse to tear up OU.
>>52351454I feel like Simple would be amazing on Volcarona. Have you tried it?
>>52353610simple is probably one of those banned abilities you can't use.
>>52350705bump for this anon, im curious
hey bros anyone can give me a hand planning a set for my bro Kleavor? is he a weirdest Scizor moveset/statwise?I built mine using Scizor as a template because I don't know what to do with him
>>52350779Toxapex absolutely demolishes shitters in gen 7/8So do a lot of other pokemon but those just fucking kill your team in like 3 turns. Toxapex slowly picks them apart while regenerator and scald burns mean any progress is negated, leading to a buildup of cope and seethe. Pex can kinda simulate the entire stall experience even if it's on a balanced team.
>>52346281In 1v1 too?
Why does the online matchmaking suck so hard? 90% of my casual battles connect and then nothing besides either waiting 3 minutes on a screen I cannot exit.
>>52353742He doesn't really have any of the aspects of Scizor leftover?Its not really a mon based on sustain.(though scizor can't really do that either anymore) Its just big stabs or big stabs as its main abilities are sheer force and sharpness.I'd say the utility of stone axe outweigh sheer force rock slide or whatever. Though sheer force comes with free Life Orb. His main stabs synergize with sharpness and sharpness is the naturally bigger boost.You can also use trailblaze(or tailwind i suppose)+swords dance to theoretically sweep but that sounds pretty iffy. Its not ultra bulky. I think either a choice item or assvest is what he'd want.Which is pretty obviously just x-scissor/stone axe/u-turn/filler(Close Combat?).
>>52353884you want CC on this thing for sure yeah
If only Mabosstiff had a useable SpA stat, Stakeout Hyper Voice seems like it would have been a fun answer to Cyclizar. Only shitmons get Stakeout, alas.
>>52350029>what does it do? just run specs and blow shit up?I personally love Agility 3A with Energy Ball and Tera Grass right now because there's maybe 2 things that can switch into this thing, and like 3 non meme mon that can revenge it after Agility
>>52355030At what juncture would you want to use Hyper Voice on Cyclizar?