Remember that banning trapping pokemon like dugtrio and gothitelle shows that smogon truly doesn't care about "competitiveness" because both of these pokemon puts a limitation on arguably the most broken mechanic in all of pokemon.
>>50792622Switching is not broken, it's a fundamental part of the game.
>>50792622the funniest part is neither of those pokemon are OP in the actual game because switching is far less powerful when you don't have 5 fucking options to switch into. They're only banned because of smogon's retarded obsession with 6v6.
>>50792622Name on reason as to why 'no rules' wouldn't be the best and most fun rule to competitive pokemon
>>50792657>6 zacian crowned
>>50792657A "no rules" format already exists, you can play it right now, it's called AG
>>50792655>Switching is not brokenit is in a 6v6 format
>>50792657Smogon needs a mode that is just 6v6 no restricted/mythical Pokemon
>>50792681Because you have 5 other options to take hits which makes it incredibly easy to nullify whatever the opponent is trying to do just by swapping to something else. Which makes it extremely favorable as an option compared to staying in and attacking.
>>50792693? post eloswitching isn’t always good, they can predict your switchin and use a super effective move on the Pokémon you’re trying to switch in
>>507926933v3 makes you have to prepare a tough team ready for anything, and all you get is 1 tank, 1 spatker, and 1 atker, or some gimmick team. 6v6 you can have every archetype, from mixed attacker, to sweeper, to physical tank.Smogon was never about being competitive, it was about roleplaying as ash from the anime. See BKC's latest vid from his time on bw council. The whole council would rather ban baton pass than latios
>>50792758>switching isn’t always goodthat's not even remotely what I said.
>>50792787>Rhydon is out against my Pikachu>Expecting an Earthquake, I switch to my Charizard>Rhydon used Rock Slide>WTFFFFF SWITCHING IS BROKEN OMGON PLS BANpost your elo
>>50792819>Rhydon is out against my Pikachu>Expecting an Earthquake, I switch to my Landorus>Rhydon's attack dropped!>Rhydon used Rock Slide>does fucking nothing and Rhydon user is forced to switch>"s-switching isn't,broken bros I swear"
>>50792819If you switch to a charizard against a rhydon you deserve to lose. Seriously what could a charizard do to an eviolite rhydon. If you want to make a strawman argument. Use a better example than freaking charizard. Like Gyarados.
>>50792622>arguably the most broken mechanic in all of pokemon.>when Gen 1 Freeze exists>when Gen 4 stupid Rocks exist>when Evasion exists
>>50792844>Rhydon used Ice Beam!
>>50792855>Gen 1 freezeThat's one of the most potent mechanics I'll give you that but it relies heavily on rng while switching is avaliable whenever you need it. >Gen 4 stupid rocksOnly broken because it hinders switching>When evasion existsYou're still relying on RNG.
>>50792859>252+ SpA Rhydon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 272-324 (71.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryPlay the games.
>all the people who voted on arena trap ban after geting to X elo plus literally everyone who plays the omogon format is wrong and dumb and sucks at the game>the person who's good and knows exactly what's best for the meta is little anon who has to abuse savestates to get his silver medals on the battle frontierok retard
>>50793116Remind me how lando t fits in the same meta as clefable?
>>50793136Clefable is an amazingly versatile pokemon with a great moveset and abilities. How does it not?
>>50793149No. Stop avoiding the question. Why do you let a 670 bst mon with intimidate, in the same meta as 450 bst mons and claim "you're competitive". Go on. Tell me the full explanation
>>50793232You literally do not know what you're talking about.Omogon didn't just go and put both Clef and Landorus in OU. People willingly use Clefable in a meta where Lando exists enough for it to be OU. If it was so bad, people wouldn't use it and get to high ladder/win tourneys using clefable.Also landorus has 600 bst retard
>>50793241IncorrectSmogon allowed landorous in ou because they decided not to put it in ubers even though for 3 gens in a row its been s+ in viability rankings.At some point any reasonable person would've said "why is this thing always the best pokemon" and axed it.Instead because the mods like landorous because it benefits their playstyle, they never made a suspect test, causing it to be permanently ou.Also its not 600bst. Intimidate effectively doubles its physical defense and its the only legendary with that ability.If you want lando in your format thats fine. Just show me your ash cosplay
>>50793296>Smogon allowed landorous in ou because they decided not to put it in ubers even though for 3 gens in a row its been s+ in viability rankings.>At some point any reasonable person would've said "why is this thing always the best pokemon" and axed it.Landorus isn't the best pokemon. Yes, it's used a lot, but it's not an overcentralizing one, it's just a good stopgap for any team. It doesn't do anything broken nor does it require a specific landorus counter in every team.If your argument is "it's the most used so it should be banned!" then all pokemon would be banned eventually.>Also its not 600bst. Intimidate effectively doubles its physical defense and its the only legendary with that ability.So by your logic Dragonite also isn't a 600 BST mon because of multiscale, tyranitar isn't a 600 bst because of sandstorm, Salamence also isn't a 600 BST because of intimidate... your logic doesn't make sense. Also being a legendary literally does not matter, many other pokes are at the 600 range and you're not calling for their ban
>>50792655In singles switching is a VERY powerful option with VERY little downside.
>>50793836>VERY little downside.>getting predicted and losing a mon
>>50792622Entry hazards (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes)>punish the opponent for switching>have numerous forms of counterplay>don't force you into specific playstylesTrapping abilities>outright prevent you from switching>very little counterplay>force you to either use Stall or have multiple Stallbreakers
>>50792622I hate the non-stop switching, and it's a real blight on the game. I wish VGC would implement a three switch rule, which would make games more fun to watch and put more strategy instead of playing musical chairs. I use teams that prevent switching in normal online and faggots get so salty.
>>50793859>Getting predictedVery few pokemon can cover themselves completely from switch ins, even moreso if they just run common core pokemon.
>>50793606>Landorus isn't the best pokemon. Yes, it's used a lot, but it's not an overcentralizing one, it's just a good stopgap for any teamThis is a nonsensical argument that relies on people accepting the premise that only dedicated offensive Pokemon can ever be OP, if I can open up multiple team slots by having one mon as good at multiple roles as a specialist in any one of them it's absolutely OP.
>>50793606Landorus is pretty much the exact reason why ground weak mons are objectively weaker in OU and why physical attackers are straight up worse in OU,He's like how T-tar used to be post gen 6, literally always there to define the meta.
>>50793606Is there any downside to actually using Lando T? Would there be any downside to banning Lando T?
>>50793606Lando basically makes every other intimidate user invalid.Without Lando places like VGC use Arcanine and Incineroar and are much healthier for it.there is literally no downside to banning Lando T to ubers.
>>50793606>Ban Lando T>Other Ground users become more viable>less switch spam>More intimidate users become more viable>Directly nerfs Ferrothorn and Clefable by making fighting, ground and fire types more viable.
>>50793606>its not overcentralizing>it just replaces every non dragon ground monThis is scrub mentality. I thought smogon was better>should pseudos be bannedNo one has ever had a problem with banning pseudos except a few high ladder weirdos that think they are balanced because kyurem black and tapus are around. You don't even know the majority of players arguements.>they aren't competitiveThey don't want to be competitive because you built a shitty format where every team is legendaries, toxapex, and one weird pick.Darmanitan, cinderace and the water fossil broke that stale XY meta and because they broke your stale stall meta from 2015 they needed to be banned.
>>50794042Lando is allowed in VGC, people still use Arcanine/Incineroar for various reasons.
>>50794114VGC is doubles , Smogon is singles, quad ice weakness is more of a dealbreaker in Doubles while 6v6 allows Lando to hide better while still basically making all other ground types reundant.
>>50794114If you look up "lando vgc" you find hundreds of videos and alot of webpages about it. The only reason incineroar outclasses it is because incineroar gets fake out
>>50794146And Parting shot, which is better than U-turn purely because it forces more switches.
>>50794146VGC existed before Incineroar so lots of people used Lando before. It was also a much different meta with megas.
>>50794190You mean the year the entire top 16 at world had 14 players with 4 of the exact same pokemon? Its almost as if lando is overcentralizing
>>50794199In Smogon's trash format yeah, but at that time no it was megas. Lando didn't do nothin
>>507942193 thundurus3 heatran5kanghaskan5 landorousI've often heard "mega's are the problem" but most of these teams are legendaries with a mega sweeper
>>50792851Not that anon but there are plenty of cases where you'd want to swap to Charizard to bait in a Rockslide so that your Pokemon that actually beats Rhydon (e.g. Venusaur) can switch in on a weaker attack.
>>507942475 Kangaskhan because it's broken bullshit5 Landos to deal with Kangaskhan.
>>50794088If you genuinely think the gen 8 meta is stall that's just proof you haven't actually played a single game. Gen 8 is probably the worst that stall has ever been.
Behold, the most powerful trainer.
>>50794247Funny how Megas actually seemed reasonably balanced in the first year and it was even viable to keep two and chose one accordingly.
>>50792622Gen 5 sleep was banned because that gen's sleep mechanics made it broke as fuck. the instant you put something to sleep it was effectively dead. People had to run Sleep Talk as way to deal with it or face giving up games from it
how to spot an underaged person>m-m-uh legends
>>50794316Megas were never balanced, Smogon just hadn't lost its reputation then and most people still did singles so when Smogon tiered a mega to ubers that was seen as it being balanced.
>>50794331yeah bud, megas OP. Mega Abomasnow really tore up the meta
>>50793232Clefable is S Rank in Gen 6 OU. You really don't know what you are talking about when you try to downplay Clefable in general. It's fucking A Rank in OU in Gen 4 because Clefable and the ability to totally negate ALL passive damage in that meta is super crazy.
>>50794331So what about Mega-Audino or Camerupt?
>>50794316>>50794331XY didn't have move tutors and it was the first to implement the "no transfer" rule. A lot of traditionally or potentially strong Pokemon were held back in VGC 2014 by missing some crucial moves.Case in point, Kangaskhan. It was good in VGC 2014 but it didn't become the dominant mega until 2015 when it got moves like Double Edge, Low Kick and Fire Punch back.
>>50792656but the games are played 1v1 with later NPC's usually (more like hopefully at this point) having 6 mons.
>>50794056>Other Ground users become more viable>More intimidate users become more viableSuch as who exactly?
>>50794434Just off the top of my head>Arcanine>Incineroar>Krookodile>NidokingTrue Krookodile isn't as much of a pivot king as Lando, but Lando basically being the best edgequake spammer because he can flee with U-turn means more prediction is needed all around.
>>50794387They suck compared to other megas and pseudos but are still better than most normal Pokemon and are irrelevant because of the one mega per team rule?
>>50794490>but are still better than most normal PokemonBoth are shit. Camerupt is slow as fuck, Audino loses Regenerator and can't use a held item.
>>50794537M-Audino is suppsoed to be a support mega, but megas are almost always better used as an offensive tool and M-Audino has zero real use.
>>50794537Camerupt is obviously meant to be a TR sweeper. Regenerator doesn't matter in anything but Smogon. Mega audino is supposed to be support which is lmao for a meta.
>>50794434Hippowdon would arguably increase in viability. I would've said Gliscor, but we can't have nice things and Gliscor honestly was great even without lando.
>No one has ever had a problem with banning pseudos except a few high ladder weirdos that think they are balanced because kyurem black and tapus are around. Aah yes. Goodra needs to be banned
In pokemon Sword and Shield with a dex of over 600 mons the list of pokemon in OU is 37, In DP OU compressing the rotom forms into a single pick the number of pokemon in OU is 35. And that's excluding pokemon like nidoqueen and clefable who both are pretty much OU pokemon in all but name. In order words DP and SwSh have roughly the same number of OU pokemon. Despite the fact that SwSh should have more option's available since they have more than 100 extra pokemon.
>>50795426#1>Fanfic meta#2 no matter how many Pokemon there are you're limited to 6
OP is likely a 14 years old, but for future reference, Switching is important to keeping the game dynamic.Without switching, the only decision that really matters is if you manage to win the lead match-up.Even VGC and BSS need switching despite having to choose 3-4 Pokemon to use.
>>50795501Can all you smogonfags do is strawman? Either way, Yes switching is important to keeping the game dynamic, I'm not even suggesting anything like banning switching which would be retarded. What I'm suggesting is that dugtrio and gothitelle bring a much needed counter balance to how powerful switching is. Honestly another big culprit is pivot moves. Free switches into another pokemon with very few ways of countering it as well as chip damage. Even less risk than with just regular switching. Dugtrio and Gothitelle aren't skill-less either, You need to know the right time to bring them in, Usually when you either lose a pokemon. or on an accurate prediction which is a reward for being good at the game.
>>50792981-1 252+ Atk Rhydon Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recoverykneel
>>50795535>-1 252+ Atk Rhydon Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryLandorus used U-turn. Landorus switched into milotic. Avalanche does nothing.
>>50794013First, that’s literally exactly why hazards exist, 2nd, even your Pokémon fully cannot do anything at all to your opponents switch, you can always just counterswitch, 3rd, then build a fucking better team. Not just copying high tier shit from smogin is literally the bare minimum and that is all it takes.
>>50794550M audino is better for doubles.
>>50794022So then also ban almost every single tier staple in every single tier. A Pokémon being able to fill multiple important roles is literally the only reason a competitive scene can exist, because there are more than 6 individual roles required to make a half decent team
>>50794036Lando-T isn’t the best at any single role, so the downsides are big ice weakness and the opportunity cost of not using something better if you need one specific role filled
>>50795584It's fine with role compression, But when a mon is on over half of teams and is widely considered the best pokemon for 3 generations in a row somethings a problem. For example clefable can function in multiple roles and it's very popular as well. But it's not on 2 of every 4 teams. Landorus in my opinion is bad because it's too good at too many things. Maybe not the best at each individual thing but above average at most things, the utility it provides leads it being a better option most of the time.
>>50794056How does it make fighting types more viable? Lando doesn’t have any usable flying stab and they’d all be running ice punch anyway for garchomp and some other stuff
>>50794302This is /vp/ if you have a single defensive mon in your team you're running stall according to the average mongoloid who has been shitting up competitive discussion here since the dawn of the board.There's a reason why the actual good players who frequent this board, the ones that actually get tourney results gave up on it and left for their own rooms in showdown / Discord.
>>50792622Switching is the game. It’s not the most broken thing, it’s the most fundamental thing. Removing that would be like playing monopoly without being able to benefit from monopolies even if you got them. Switches are also predictable and punishable, the dynamic between switches and predicts is 95% of what competitive single battles are. Dugtrio just stops you from playing the fucking game, and gothitelle potentially just wins the entire game if your opponent misplays once
>>50795601Lando hasn’t been considered the best Pokémon for 3 generations though. Gen 5 that was excadrill, gen 6 that was aegislash till that got banned really late into the tier, gen 7 it was ash greninja although both lando t and ash greninja did nothing against the most popular playstyle, stall, and gen 8 it was uhhh lets see: gdarm till dmax got banned, then vish, then cinderace till that got banned, then urshifu single strike till that got banned, then heatran weirdly for a while, then kyurem till that got banned, and now it’s weavile.
>>50795547So don’t run fucking rhydon. Rhyp is a better Pokémon anyway and both are still very hard to use because they’re rock type
>>50795636>Gen 5 that was excadrillActually that's T-tar. T-tar is the only reason Rain and psychics haven't devoured the whole Meta up.
>>50795582But there are so much other better double mons.
>>50794474There's a meta for the trash you mentioned: its called UU. Perhaps youmight want to play some games there, since you hate lando so much.
>>50794580>Camerupt is obviously meant to be a TR sweeperNot good at that either because of it's limited switchin's and high competition as TR wall breaker alongside providing no utility.>Regenerator doesn't matter in anything but SmogonIt's super vital ability. Especially since pivoting in doubles is a thing and Healer is a meh at best and that's being generous.
>>50794580No, regenerator just doesn’t matter in anything but 6v6 singles
>>50795426Well that’s also kind of because there’ve been shitloads of bans in gen 8, like more than is typical for a generation
>>50795526>What I'm suggesting is that dugtrio and gothitelle bring a much needed counter balance to how powerful switching isThey outright hard shut it down, force you to run shed shell and have little counterplay and really make the pacing suck. Gengar was nerfed by removing Levitate in gen 7 because of trapping in all formats
>>50793963>flying types>shed shell>u-turn>volt switch>parting shot>ghost types>levitateI know I didn't get everything but there's plenty
>>50795426You know the size of OU is kept at a set number, right?
>>50792643Pursuit puts a limitation on switching. Trapping moves put a limitation on switching. Hazards put a limitation on switching.Trapping abilities shut down switching entirely.To put it into perspective, imagine if in VGC, there was a Pokemon that just prevented the use of Protect, Ally Switch, and Follow Me simply by being on the field.
>>50793232First of all, Lando "only" has a BST of 600. And Clefable's is 483. A much smaller difference.And its stats, despite being lower, are much better distributed.Clefable also has 2 amazing abilities, and a great movepool with reliable recovery, and the 2nd best type in the game.
>>50794036Lando-T's bread and butter is role compression, so if you only need 1 or 2 roles filled, there are Pokemon who can do the job better than Lando.A big downside to banning Lando would be making the other 5 slots in most teams less diverse. Because when you can compress so many roles into 1 slot, you can be more experimental with the other 5.
>>50792657>>50792662I wish showdown had a format where I could play without their retarded ability/move bans and with dynamax but didn't mean having to fight a bunch of box legendaries.I think they've thought about this but decided against it because they knew it'd be more popular when put next to fanfic meta tiers.
Switching is over-centralizing.If you don't design your team with switching explicitly in mind then you lose 9/10 times.
>>50792622>sw-switching is overcentralizing!!!1!!https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-582952
>>50796289>a single gamelmao
>>50796307>i-it doesn't count because...>i-it just doesn't, okay!??!?!?!
>>50796643>this one guy that smoked cigars didnt get lung cancer>so smoking doesnt l-lead to c-cancer, okay???!!!! it j-just doesnt okay??!!!! sorry but not sorry okay!!!!!!!!!!?
>>50796307>>50796648Anon, take a closer look at the match. A tournament. Between 2 council members.If it was a 1000 elo match between shitters, you might have a point.This is like if someone who smoked a pack a minute didn't get cancer.
>>50796681educate yourself chudcelyou dont form statistics from a single measurement.
>>50796218>didn't mean having to fight a bunch of box legendaries.Box legendaries aren't the issue. If they get banned you'd get something else to take it's place and possibly even worse. Gen 5 Ubers is a better meta then Gen 5 OU as one case of this.
>>50796218>no rules except the rules I personally like!How is this not literally just your own personal "fanfic meta".
>>50797100Because there's precedence for banning box legendaries in the real games you tard.
>>50797100>>no rules except the rules I personally like!Yes.The rules I like are based, the rules I don't like are gay shit incels force because they know my dugtrio will fuck their faggot toxapex up
>>50797314Not in a 6v6 singles format.
>>50797490>Meanwhile literally impossible mechanics like sleep clause are implemented because it was in 3v3 Stadium
>>50797502This is a false equivalency because Smogon doesn't give a shit about their clauses not having an official basis. You however evidently do since you criticizes it as "fanfic meta" as though your idea is somehow any different.