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What the fuck were they thinking?
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>>47012078
>poison and ghost are spe
>dragon and dark are phys
FIXED
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>>47012078
I don’t see the problem.
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>>47012078
to be honest, in gen 1 and even gen 2 a little, it didn't make that much of a difference because most attacks that were physical/special did really make sense where they were. there were just a couple edge cases like kingler and others.
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>>47012078
>Special has Eeveelutions for every type but 1
Dragon Eeveelution when?
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>>47012101
Here's the problem
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>>47012141
Yeah? And? Those moves all have different effects.
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>>47012141
wat
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>>47012078
me. they were thinking of me
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>>47012168
>Waterfall, Crabhammer and (not pictured) Dive should totally be special moves, no problem here :)
ok retard
>>47012124
They should have introduced physical/special split in gen 3
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>>47012101
See >>47012091
I'm playing through Ruby again and Dark- and Dragon-types all have high Attack, making it harder to utilize their STAB (Crunch and Dragon Claw respectively) when it really shouldn't be the case. I'm on the fence about Poison being Special but Gengar having Shadow Ball based on its Attack is lame.
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>>47012091
In gen 2 the only dragon move that could be considered physical was outrage. Dragon rage, dragonbreath, and twister were all clearly special. Agree with the others though.
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>>47012186
>>Waterfall, Crabhammer and (not pictured) Dive should totally be special moves,
Yes, they should. Why shouldn't they be special moves?

>>47012887
>making it harder to utilize their STAB
Man, if only they learned moves other than STAB....
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>>47012887
you know that pokemon have two attack stats and that you don't have to use the highest one, right?
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>>47012887
I think the idea is that some types were meant to be used as coverage rather stab.
Like how Ghost is a solid offensive type, but Gengar couldn't use it right while Normal types with high attack could to counter it.
Although even then you have to look for specific examples for this to make sense. Like, how many special attackers could even learn Dragon type moves? Charizard?
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>>47012932
People like you are worse kind of scum.
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>>47013079
people who play the game and strategize based on the mechanics instead of being an autist are scum?

are you the type of schizo who thinks gengar is bad in gen 3 even though it has incredibly good coverage options or that salamence and tyranitar can't run special sets?
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>>47012887
THINK OF THE HECKIN STABERINO GF ALL STAB MUST BE CREATED EQUAL!! WE ARE ONE STAB!!!
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>>47013100
man gen 4 really went full retard with buffing dragons.

>hurr let's make outrage physical and add 30 BP so every dragon can suddenly use STAB + their highest attack stat on a fucking 120 power move that only one type in the game resists
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>>47013100
But Flareon DIDN'T get any new moves from the split that was its main problem (Fire Fang isn;t a move its a shitstain). That's were the whole FLAREON HAS NO MOVES meme comes from. If it had gotten Flare Blitz it could have at least had some use in a higher tier since power creep wasn't as bad at that point.

If you have such a problem with the Phys/Spec split, wouldn't Typhllosion be a better example. It was robbed of Thunderpunch and wasn't compensated with Earth Power or Ancient Power because Masuda hated it.
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>>47012078
Probably just because it was easier to assign individual types to a certain stat rather than certain moves when it came to the Game Boy's limitations and Game Freak's ability to competently code a game.
Movesets were so limited more often than not in the first two gens that it didn't really make much of a difference, but I'm assuming at one point GF looked at something like how Abra could hit much stronger Ice / Thunder / Fire Punches than big beefy Pokemon like Machamp and Metagross could and said "That's kind of weird isn't it" and split them
Both are fine and people who bitch about one or the other are pussies. The split makes more logical sense more often than not but the pre-split makes for some very fun playthroughs
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>>47012932
Why shouldn't a water hammer, an aquatic charge attack and the water version of dig be special? Man I just don't know... Oh wait I do; so they don't get completely outclassed by surf! That's an easy one
>>47013090
>"Hmm yes I love when my pokemons are gimped by shitty mechanics"
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>>47013100
Let's talk about pre special split 110 Flareon from gen 1...
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>>47012091
wtf dude
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>>47013447
>Why shouldn't a water hammer, an aquatic charge attack and the water version of dig be special?
Because they're water-based.

>>"Hmm yes I love when my pokemons are gimped by shitty mechanics"
It's not "gimped by shitty mechanics" when the mechanics affect every Pokemon in the game you dumbass.
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>>47013174
>If it had gotten Flare Blitz it could have at least had some use in a higher tier
no
none of the shitmons "that just needed a stab to be good" were ever going to be good with or without stab. i cant recall 1 pokemon in the split that actually got a major push in usage just because of a stab buff. stab is only a fraction of what makes a pokemon truly viable in OU, even UU. give electabuzz an evolution, even give it volt tackle, its still not going to have the viability from the typing, the ability, the movepool, the utility of gengar that doesnt have stab and dont tell me "electivire was ou too" all the sinnoh cross-evos were pretty overrated except gliscor
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>>47013892
>stab is only a fraction of what makes a pokemon truly viable
This is true, STAB can't save a Pokémon if it has no coverage, set up, or utility.
However, STAB still is important for Offense mons to have. especially now due to how powercrept everything is.
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>>47012078
all they had to do was switch Dark and Ghost and the games would've been good
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>>47013514
>Because they're water-based.
Gen 4 shits on this point
>It's not "gimped by shitty mechanics" when the mechanics affect every Pokemon in the game you dumbass.
So you're telling me Gengar isn't completely fucked because both his STAB are physical? Oh but it can use elemental punches right? Then what about Hitmochan? He can't make good use of punch based moves now, gotta make do with brick break and return. If that isn't gimped idk what you're smoking
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>>47012091
Dragon is linked to magic and shit, Dark relies more on craftiness to deal damage than brute force, and a ghostly body is inherent to Ghost-types and how they use Ghost-type moves.
And Poison is physical.
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>>47014273
as a sableye simp, I cannot agree more
legit, it makes way more sense ghost to be special, CUZ ITS A SPOOK
WHY DO SPOOK BE PHYSICAL BUT UMBREON'S NEGRO MAGIC IS SPECIAL??
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>>47013892
>i cant recall 1 pokemon in the split that actually got a major push in usage just because of a stab buff.
Because plenty of them got evolutions.
Weavile and Mamoswine would have been utter shitmons without the split since their powerful stabs were and still are their main draw.
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>>47015590
>they became good because of pokemon that didn’t exist in gen 3!
This argument is meaningless.
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>>47015610
You want us to analyse the effect of the split on old mons while also convenietly ignore the tens of new Pokemon introduced at the same time, some of which designed to directly replace some old ones?
What the fuck argument are YOU making?
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>dragon mostly had breath moves, outrage was the outlier
>ghost is physical, because lick was the only ghost move
>dark is special, because it was intended to be the inverse of ghost and having both new types be physical would imbalance the type chart too much
Poison is a mystery to me. Best I can think of is Poison Sting, but the rest of the moves were gas-based.
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>>47012078
You did not mention how EV's worked
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>>47012078
>Ghost
>Physical
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>>47015729
EVs were great. You nevr had to worry about gumping your alakazam because it killed too many machops.
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>>47015660
The “b-buh the new pokemon!” argument is meaningless because if they added evolutions in gen 3 they could have just designed their stats around -not- having the split you retard. Of course Pokemon in gen 4 are going to have stats that only work with the split, because the split fucking exists in gen 4.
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>>47013316
>spoiler
This anon speaks the truth. Post-split isn't bad, but pre-split is far from being unplayable, like some anons seem to claim.
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>>47014325
Anon, Look at the Hitmon's movepool in Gen 3. They are actually steller for those gen standards. Even in Gen 2 they ahd good options+a 70bp Hidden Power
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>>47015748
I think it could also be realistically argued that Shadow Ball could be a physical move. Every gen describes the move as a blob or lump.
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>>47015761
Eve the logic for the elemental punches isn't weird pre-split. They are just weak punches that focus on freezing/burning/shocking the target with physical contact rather then a strong punch that breaks bones but you can make up any chain of logic to justify any move's attributes as some anon said.
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>>47015784
Fighting types in general sucked before gen 4 because they had no good moves.
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>>47015822
Justify bite and crunch being special.
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>>47015822
I think that argument holds up for some moves, but Crabhammer doesn't make as much sense.
>>47015827
Dark was in an awkward position from the start. It was initially intended to be the opposite of Ghost in every way. It still is to some degree in the final games. They likely didn't want both of the new types in gen 2 to be physical, and Steel definitely couldn't have been special.
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>>47014325
>Gen 4 shits on this point
Gen 3 shits on this point.

>So you're telling me Gengar isn't completely fucked because both his STAB are physical?
Yes. Play the game.

>Then what about Hitmochan? He can't make good use of punch based moves now
What? It makes good use of Mach Punch and Mega Punch fine.
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>>47015827
Justify Wring Out being special.
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>>47015759
You are literally admitting that several gen 4 Pokemon would be worse off without the split while claiming it has little to no effect on viability.
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>>47015893
He's admitting that the game is designed around the mechanics in play.
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>>47015866
>Yes. Play the game.
I could but I need to reach Battle Frontier to teach my Gengar the elemental punches so I won't bother
>What? It makes good use of Mach Punch and Mega Punch fine.
Mach punch has nothing going for it other than priority since iron fist doesn't exist; and mega punch? Is that the best you can do?
Since you like to reach into your ass to justify the pre-split meta, let's see you try to make Weavile and Crawdaunt viable
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>>47015936
Hitmonchan already gets HP Ghost and Earthquake. Elemental punches wouldn't have helped it.
>crawdaunt
A mon carried entirely by a good ability. It was a shitmon in gen 4.
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>>47015955
And Crawdaunt would still be a shitmon even if it had adaptability if there was no split.
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>>47015936
>let's see you try to make [pokemon that didn't exist in gen 3] and [pokemon that's still garbage after the split] viable
Play the game.
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>>47013100
God is there a more JUST pokemon than Flareon?
Cant even mock the poor fucker, just feel bad for it.
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>>47013151
It also added fucking Garchomp to further abuse this massive base power boost
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>>47015485
>Dark relies more on craftiness to deal damage than brute force
yeah sure, but that doesn't change the fact that every damaging Dark move from Gen 1-3 got turned into a Physical move, the only Gen 4 Special Dark move was Dark Pulse, and Dark still only has 3 Special Dark moves that aren't Signature moves (Dark Pulse, Snarl and Dark Daze) or Z-Moves/Dynamax Moves.

Physical Dark Moves
>Bite
>Beat Up
>Crunch
>Feint Attack
>Pursuit
>Thief
>Knock Off
>Assurance
>Fling
>Night Slash
>Payback
>Punishment
>Sucker Punch
>Foul Play
>Hyperspace Fury
>Brutal Swing
>Darkest Lariat
>Power Trip
>Throat Chop
>Aura Wheel
>False Surrender
>Jaw Lock
>Lash Out
>Wicked Blow

Special Dark Moves
>Dark Pulse
>Night Daze
>Snarl
>Baddy Bad
>Fiery Wrath
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>>47016749
So you can't huh
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>>47017067
Dark took on some former normal moves. Lot of those moves can be given to normal with little issue
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>>47015825
Focus Punch was good, Brick Break was used. HJK as well. Bug pre-Gen 4 was worse because your only option ws Megahorn
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>>47017429
>Focus Punch was good
Yeah, but it was also very prediction-reliant.
>Brick Break was used. HJK as well
Sky Uppercut was used too, that doesn't mean it was good. Those moves were the best of a bad situation.
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>>47012078
>Ghost
>Physical
thats the last type I'd think of as physical.
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>>47017067
Because now it's just a matter of whether or not the move involves any physical activity.
See Fire Punch being physical. The punch isn't what does the damage. It's just the medium to deliver fire to the opponent. If the punch was doing damage, it'd be Normal or Fighting.
Same goes for Dark moves. You're hitting your opponent physically, yes, but you're using your special skills to do the actual damage.



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