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>>
Unironic laziness.
>>
Incineroar has the same stats as Swampert except with 5 HP moved to Attack
Inteleon has the same stats as Sceptile except with 20 Sp. Def moved to Sp. Atk
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>>46986252
>they have the same stats except the stats that are different
>>
justify this
>>
>>46986252
You don't know what you are talking about do you

>>46986228
Gamefreak did Typhlosion dirty on purpose because they knew its design was better and people would prefer the badger over the faggot fatso lizard if it had decent moves/stats.
>>
>>46986252
>different types
>multiple generations apart
>not the same stats
What was that supposed to prove?
>>
>>46986279
>>different types
>>multiple generations apart
So you’re fine with Typhlosion then? What’s even your point?
>>
>>46986293
>>46986252
this better be bait
>>
>>46986299
>>46986309
So you have no point? Good to know.
>>
>>46986315
we need no point when you are an imbecile. insert a .50 caliber aspirin in your head. right now.
>>
>>46986315
The point is that Zard and Typh are mich more similar than the other starters you listed. You would understand that if you were able to think.
>>
>>46986228
>let's fix shitzard with a better design and type
I see no issue, Typhlosion is a great apology gift from Tajiri after the shit show that was charizard
>>
>>46986419
>The point is that Zard and Typh are mich more similar
So?
>>
>Be stupid
>Still keep pretending you aren't stupid
>Keep pretending that 2 = 1 no matter what
fuck off and kill yourself, but for real this time. reboot your life.
>>
>>46986422
Holy cope
>>
>>46986454
>4x weakness to Rock
>rip off of Mardrake Marshal from Dragon Quest V; zero originality
>trash movepool in Gen1
>couldn't even fly before Yellow version
>is totally inferior to the grass starter
Typhlosion wasn't this embarassing
>>
>>46986228
Even though they have the same stat spread, they don't play the same.
>>
>>46986228
justify this fucking thread
touch grass
>>
Holy moly vp is braindead
>>46986344
>>46986276
>>46986257
>>46986279
>>46986309
>>46986299
>>
>>46986228
Why do people care about this so much beyond "oh cool they have the same stats"?
>>
>>46986228
Justify what? The stats are arbitrary.
Cry about it.
>>
>>46987225
Johto already gets shit on for being "West Kanto" so having a fire starter with the exact same base stats as one from Kanto isn't exactly a good look. (Even though this stat arrangement is probably the best case scenario for a special attacker while using the the same base stat values).
>>
>>46986533
>And he still claims that different stats are the same as copy pasted stats
fuck off, seriously
stop being a damned idiot, even if this is bait, it is not funny
>>
>>46987225
Because Typhlosion is literally just worse Charizard.
If Typhlosion was better Charizard, nobody would bat an eye and would love seeing that shilled lizard get what he deserves.
>>
>>46988621
>Typhlosion is literally just worse Charizard
he doesn't get so ferociously raped by rocks, though
>>
>>46989354
He kinda does, though.
Typhlosion only loses 1/4 HP as opposed to Charizard's 1/2, but Typhlosion doesn't have Roost and its only worthwhile attacking move is Eruption, which is massively weakened from taking damage.
Charizard at 1/2 HP hits just as hard as Charizard at full HP.
>>
>>46986228
This racism against Typho is unjustified. /vp/ should be ashamed of itself.
>>
>>46987672
>Johto already gets shit on for being "West Kanto"
Huh? Kanto is Amazing, and so is Johto. The best 2 regions. It's like calling Ronaldo the taller Messi.
>>
>>46989391
Ok I'll bite, what's good about Johto?
>>
>>46986443
>Being obtuse to try and save face after unironically saying "well if you ignore the parts that are different they're the same!"
Not going to work.
>>
>>46989421
It's full of Kanto mons and is connected to Kanto.
>>
>>46986533
all me
>>
>>46986228
One is dual type, and the other is not.
Also, different movepools and Hidden Abilities.
>>
>>46986252
sunkern and mew have the same stats except you need to mulitply them with 10/3
>>
>>46990135
Charizard
Special Coverage including Dual STAB on Fire and Flying, Rock, Ground, and Dragon. Also Weather Ball as a Wild Card
Belly Drum, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance to use its Physical Atk
Recovery with Roost
Speed Control with Tailwind
Defog for Hazard Control and Screen Removal
One Mega sets up weather,
Another Mega to use its physical movepool better
A Gigantamax that damages enemies for 5 turns

Typhlosion
Eruption
???


FFS why does Masuda hate Typhlosion so much
>>
>>46990518
Because Masuda is fucking shit
>>
>>46986228
This isn’t a bad thing since the typings are different
>>
>>46989578
>being obtuse and try to save face after realizing you don’t have a point
Not going to work.
>>
>>46986228
not a single anon has yet to justify this thread
>>
>>46991611
>Repeating an insult back at someone after you've been owned
I've broken you.
>>
>>46986228
It's objectively better due to not having the shitty flying type, but nobody cares because it's not from KANTOOOO
>>
>>46993440
>s-stop using my shitty post against me!
KEK
>>
>>46986269
BASED
>>
>>46994064
Literally this. At least on a normal run. Use charmander in the whole 16 gyms and you'll see yourself wrecked very often due to Flying type that Charizard gets.
>>
>>46994207
I doubt that. The only place Flying causes new problems is the Electric gym. Everywhere else it's either an advantage or you already had a disadvantage.
>>
>>46986228
I think that at one point Typhlosion actually had different stats, but they lost the stats near launch, and they just used Zard's stats as filler.
>>
>>46986228
One is a dragon
>>
>>46986238
Having Charizard without the 4x rock weakness was novel in Gen 2, honestly.
>>
>>46990518
He doesn't hate Typhlosion. He doesn't care about Typhlosion at all.
But he loves Charizard.
>>
>>46986252
The Charmander line is based on the mythical salamander of Greco Roman mythology. Some guy touched a salamander and concluded that it was so cold that it must be immune to all heat, and its supposed immunity to fire made it a fire spirit in western mythos.
The Cyndaquil line is based on the 火鼠 , or hinonezumi, in Chinese mythology that make its way to Japanese mythology. It's pretty mundane as far as yokai go. It's a rat that's immune to fire and lives in fire, and later evolved into a fire spirit in eastern mythos.
The reason why each respective member of the Cyndaquil line and Charmander line have the exact same stats is because they're based on mythological creatures that are functionally the exact same.
>>
>>46986252
Thanks Bulbapedia
>>
>>46994714
It's not novel anymore, and Typhlosion could be buffed.
>>
>>46994638
No.
One is Fire/Flying, and one is just Fire.
>>
>>46994626
Maybe they were planning to swap the special stats(making one line specially bulky and the other powerful) around but decided not to?
>>
>>46986472
Yeah he is only inferior to the water starter
>>
>>46986472
>>is totally inferior to the grass starter
Charizard is inferior to Venusaur, but superior to Blastoise.
Typhlosion is inferior to Feraligatr, but superior to Meganium.
They're both the medium starter.
>>
They got lazy with the fire starter in the sequels.
>>
>>46986228
where can I compare pokemons like that and see their total stats?
>>
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>>46986252
That stat spread is based, my favorite water and fire type starters.
>>
>>46986252
>Incineroar has the same stats as Swampert except with 5 HP moved to Attack
No it doesn't. Swampert has a BST of 535, Incineroar has a BST of 530. Swampert also has 5 more Sp.Attack
>>
>>47001216
Based and Math-pilled
>>
>>46986228
Because it's a Charizard without wings moron
>>
>>47002944
"Based" is newfag lingo, don't try and undermine my post by association.
>>
>>46994147
>Has to add stuttering
>Can't even come up with ANYTHING on his own for a comeback
Utterly and completely mind broken over losing.
>>
>>46986228
Though I agree it's lazy. Why do people like to pretend that Typhlosion wasn't the superior choice until the physical/special split?
>>
>>47004485
Typhlosion is still the superior choice.
Charizard is only good with its special snowflake forms, which make its stats different anyway.
>>
>>47004974
Wasn't Zard good without dynamax just a few VGC seasons ago? I remember seeing posts about its "3 fire move" sets for sun teams.
>>
>>47005137
>without dynamax
Nope.
>>
>>47005137
Not really.
It relies massively on Gmax Wildfire.
It also relies on sun.
>>
>>47004485
Because Merrick made shitting on Johto the cool thing to do. In reality. Typhlosion only became worse than Charizard when Charizard started getting pandered to with extra special snowflake forms.
>>
>>46986269
I don't get it
>>
>>46986228
>Justify this
Easy.

1. They were still new to this.
2. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that stat spread. Typhlosion suffers from bad move distribution.
>>
>>46986269
Reverted loss?
>>
>>46986276
I don't think they thought Typhlosion looks better than Charizard.

>>46986472
I know this is bait but /vp/ is an awful, awful board.
>>
>>46997513
Interesting post, but you're giving GF far too much credit. Even during the golden Tajiri age, they just weren't that consistent.
>>
>>46986293
>>46986315
You're so retarded that I fear any post replying to you has been a monumental waste of my time and effort. Commit Healing Wish.
>>
>>46989391
Cuz messi is better, so is kanto
>>
The only cool fire type lines are magcargo, chandelure, and volcarona, everything else is beneath my notice so I don't care.
>>
>>46990224
kek
>>
>>47008682
and yet Ronaldo won more, same with Johto
>>
>>47004454
No it isn't you dumb newfag, even if it's been usurped it's been used for a good ten years. Xpilled is however.
>>
>>47009279
Yes it is. It only took off in 2013, which is a newfag year. Kill yourself, revisionist election tourist.
>>
>>47007704
They weren't consistent, but I could imagine them adding in a nice touch like that.
>>
>>47007682
>The Volcano Pokémon
No Earth Power, No Ancient Power, No Stealth Rock

>Volcanoes are among the loudest sounds in nature
No Boomburst or HyperVoice

>Is A Badger
No Snarl, No Hone Claws

>Other Johto Starters and Charizard Get Swords Dance
No Swords Dance for Typhlosion

>Quilava is explicitly described as nimble and Ash’s Cyndaquil regularly used Agility
No Agility, No Extreme Speed

>Other Pokémon with Flash Fire in the same egg group as Typhlosion (Arcanine and Ponyta) get Morning Sun
Doesn't get Morning Sun

>Named TyphLOSION
Doesn't Get Explosion

>Gets Gyro Ball and Rollout (which are useless on it)
Doesn't Get Electro-ball, the one ball move which would actually be good special coverage

>Is The Zodiac Rat and based on a hinezumi
Not even Super Fang

FFS There is no way Game Freak is is clueless, it had to be intentional sabotage or something.
>>
>>47004481
>S-STOP MAKING FUN OF ME!!!
kek
>>
>>47010806
>Literally making things up in his own head just to try and salvage his destroyed ego
Absolutely anally ravaged.
>>
>>47008682
>Cuz messi is better, so is kanto
? post elo
>>
>>47010821
imagine trying to lift your ego on an anonymous site
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>>47011979
>Projecting
I have no need of such things since I won. Kneel bitch.
>>
>>47010800
>FFS There is no way Game Freak is is clueless
Are we talking about the same Game Freak?
>>
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>>47010800
>There is no way Game Freak is is clueless
Yes there is.
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>>47015434
I’m just saying it’s pretty ridiculous that Game Freak is so incompetent 99% of the time, but whenever it comes to a Pokémon they want to shill, they conveniently become competitive masterminds. Cinderace is so disgustingly optimized for competitive that it’s infuriating, especially when some Pokémon are stuck being Do not ever use this Pokémon with the intent of winning games
>>
>>47016465
I don't think they become competitive masterminds.
There's still plenty of accidentally amazing mons like Landorus-T.
Cinderace was just an example of repeating what worked in the past with Greninja.
>>
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>>47015434
PREASE LEVE ALONE ME SPACE BARRIER LUNCH BREAK CHOTTO KAISUGI CHUSUKE MINNAAAAAAA
>>
>>46986228
Appealing to casuals who always pick the fire starter and beat the first game with Charizard. Literally their entire thought process. Don't make Charizardfags learn to use a different Pokemon, we wouldn't want them to get angry and go on a killing spree outside their house.
>>
>>47017893
Typhlosion is also a fire starter, though.
>>
>>47018403
Yeah but Masuda specially didn't want it to overshadow Charizard for some reason.
>>
>>46986269
i can't, fuck flint
>>
>>46986228
They're both shit. Take your meds.
>>
>>46986269
It's literally unjustifiable and GF knew it, which is why they fixed it in Platinum.
>>
>>47019596
It kinda did, though. At least competitively.
Simply having Eruption makes Typhlosion better than base Charizard.
>>
>>47023291
It really doesn't, Charizard has been better in every generation except 5. I don't think Typhlosion's ever been good in VGC either unlike Charizard.
>>
They continually shit on my favorite mon
It's not fair, Tybrosions...
>>
>>47023578
Base Charizard, I said.
Of course Mega and GMax Charizards are better, but they also don't have the same stats as Typhlosion.
>>
>>46986269
more gym leaders and elite four members should step outside a single type.
If I designed an Elite four, I'd base their teams around the four weathers. (also the four different battle formats, but that's not as important.)
>Hail: Ice types, but also non-ice types with items or abilities that let them ignore hail damage (overcoat/magic guard(you can tell I have Reuniclus in mind here), safety goggles, etc.) [Single Battle]
>Sandstorm: Rock, Ground, and Steel types. (sticks entirely to these types, but they don't share any weaknesses so it's probably okay. as long as they have some way to deal with Water types) [Double Battle]
>Rain: Water Types, but also Dry Skin users like Toxicroak or an Electric Type carrying Thunder [Triple Battle]
>Sun: Fire types, Grass types, and Heliolisk [Rotation Battle]
>>
>>46986228

abilities and typing distinguish them, that's plenty to make a difference
>>
>>46986228
Don't wanna
>>
>>47016465

There's some utility using shitty Pokemon if only to knock tierfags off your gameplan.
>>
>>46986252
Thanks for the insightful post. Makes me think about how outside of a few extra 210 in HP, 95 in attack, 230 in DEF, 100 in sATK, 225 in sDEF and 90 in speed Wishiwashi has basically the same base stats as Eternamax Eternatus.
>>
>>47024476
Base Charizard is better in Gen 4 NU, and Gen 7 NU. I would say Gen 6 NU but Typhlosion is in D tier RU because people used it so much even though it sucked and Smogon tiers are about usage which is why you need to look at viability rankings. In Gens 2 and 3 Charizard is also more viable once again due to Belly Drum.
>>
>>47025471
>Typhlosion is in D tier RU because people used it so much even though it sucked
That’s not quite what happened, typhlosion was banned from NU and put in NUBL. Anyone who wanted to use it had to use it in RU because BL is a holding cell, not an actual tier. That’s how it got used so much in a tier it clearly didn’t belong.
>>
>>47025471
Why isn't Charizard getting used enough to go up to tiers it doesn't deserve to be in?
Isn't it kinda popular?
>>
>>47024730
Depends on how shitty we're talking here.
Do you mean something weird and niche like Pyukumuku or something genuinely worthless like Ledian?
>>
>>46986487
This.
Their abilities and movepools are completely different, and the presence/absence of Flying typing is a huge game changer.
>>
>>47024730
That only works if the shitty Pokemon in question has a movepool.



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