Incineroar has the same stats as Swampert except with 5 HP moved to AttackInteleon has the same stats as Sceptile except with 20 Sp. Def moved to Sp. Atk
>>46986252>they have the same stats except the stats that are different
>>46986252You don't know what you are talking about do you>>46986228Gamefreak did Typhlosion dirty on purpose because they knew its design was better and people would prefer the badger over the faggot fatso lizard if it had decent moves/stats.
>>46986252>different types>multiple generations apart>not the same statsWhat was that supposed to prove?
>>46986279>>different types>>multiple generations apartSo you’re fine with Typhlosion then? What’s even your point?
>>46986293>>46986252this better be bait
>>46986299>>46986309So you have no point? Good to know.
>>46986315we need no point when you are an imbecile. insert a .50 caliber aspirin in your head. right now.
>>46986315The point is that Zard and Typh are mich more similar than the other starters you listed. You would understand that if you were able to think.
>>46986228>let's fix shitzard with a better design and typeI see no issue, Typhlosion is a great apology gift from Tajiri after the shit show that was charizard
>>46986419>The point is that Zard and Typh are mich more similarSo?
>Be stupid>Still keep pretending you aren't stupid>Keep pretending that 2 = 1 no matter whatfuck off and kill yourself, but for real this time. reboot your life.
>>46986454>4x weakness to Rock>rip off of Mardrake Marshal from Dragon Quest V; zero originality>trash movepool in Gen1>couldn't even fly before Yellow version>is totally inferior to the grass starterTyphlosion wasn't this embarassing
>>46986228Even though they have the same stat spread, they don't play the same.
>>46986228justify this fucking threadtouch grass
Holy moly vp is braindead>>46986344>>46986276>>46986257>>46986279>>46986309>>46986299
>>46986228Why do people care about this so much beyond "oh cool they have the same stats"?
>>46986228Justify what? The stats are arbitrary. Cry about it.
>>46987225Johto already gets shit on for being "West Kanto" so having a fire starter with the exact same base stats as one from Kanto isn't exactly a good look. (Even though this stat arrangement is probably the best case scenario for a special attacker while using the the same base stat values).
>>46986533>And he still claims that different stats are the same as copy pasted statsfuck off, seriouslystop being a damned idiot, even if this is bait, it is not funny
>>46987225Because Typhlosion is literally just worse Charizard.If Typhlosion was better Charizard, nobody would bat an eye and would love seeing that shilled lizard get what he deserves.
>>46988621>Typhlosion is literally just worse Charizardhe doesn't get so ferociously raped by rocks, though
>>46989354He kinda does, though.Typhlosion only loses 1/4 HP as opposed to Charizard's 1/2, but Typhlosion doesn't have Roost and its only worthwhile attacking move is Eruption, which is massively weakened from taking damage.Charizard at 1/2 HP hits just as hard as Charizard at full HP.
>>46986228This racism against Typho is unjustified. /vp/ should be ashamed of itself.
>>46987672>Johto already gets shit on for being "West Kanto"Huh? Kanto is Amazing, and so is Johto. The best 2 regions. It's like calling Ronaldo the taller Messi.
>>46989391Ok I'll bite, what's good about Johto?
>>46986443>Being obtuse to try and save face after unironically saying "well if you ignore the parts that are different they're the same!"Not going to work.
>>46989421It's full of Kanto mons and is connected to Kanto.
>>46986228One is dual type, and the other is not.Also, different movepools and Hidden Abilities.
>>46986252sunkern and mew have the same stats except you need to mulitply them with 10/3
>>46990135CharizardSpecial Coverage including Dual STAB on Fire and Flying, Rock, Ground, and Dragon. Also Weather Ball as a Wild CardBelly Drum, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance to use its Physical AtkRecovery with RoostSpeed Control with TailwindDefog for Hazard Control and Screen RemovalOne Mega sets up weather,Another Mega to use its physical movepool betterA Gigantamax that damages enemies for 5 turnsTyphlosion Eruption???FFS why does Masuda hate Typhlosion so much
>>46990518Because Masuda is fucking shit
>>46986228This isn’t a bad thing since the typings are different
>>46989578>being obtuse and try to save face after realizing you don’t have a pointNot going to work.
>>46986228not a single anon has yet to justify this thread
>>46991611>Repeating an insult back at someone after you've been ownedI've broken you.
>>46986228It's objectively better due to not having the shitty flying type, but nobody cares because it's not from KANTOOOO
>>46993440>s-stop using my shitty post against me!KEK
>>46994064Literally this. At least on a normal run. Use charmander in the whole 16 gyms and you'll see yourself wrecked very often due to Flying type that Charizard gets.
>>46994207I doubt that. The only place Flying causes new problems is the Electric gym. Everywhere else it's either an advantage or you already had a disadvantage.
>>46986228I think that at one point Typhlosion actually had different stats, but they lost the stats near launch, and they just used Zard's stats as filler.
>>46986228One is a dragon
>>46986238Having Charizard without the 4x rock weakness was novel in Gen 2, honestly.
>>46990518He doesn't hate Typhlosion. He doesn't care about Typhlosion at all.But he loves Charizard.
>>46986252The Charmander line is based on the mythical salamander of Greco Roman mythology. Some guy touched a salamander and concluded that it was so cold that it must be immune to all heat, and its supposed immunity to fire made it a fire spirit in western mythos.The Cyndaquil line is based on the 火鼠 , or hinonezumi, in Chinese mythology that make its way to Japanese mythology. It's pretty mundane as far as yokai go. It's a rat that's immune to fire and lives in fire, and later evolved into a fire spirit in eastern mythos.The reason why each respective member of the Cyndaquil line and Charmander line have the exact same stats is because they're based on mythological creatures that are functionally the exact same.
>>46994714It's not novel anymore, and Typhlosion could be buffed.
>>46994638No.One is Fire/Flying, and one is just Fire.
>>46994626Maybe they were planning to swap the special stats(making one line specially bulky and the other powerful) around but decided not to?
>>46986472Yeah he is only inferior to the water starter
>>46986472>>is totally inferior to the grass starterCharizard is inferior to Venusaur, but superior to Blastoise.Typhlosion is inferior to Feraligatr, but superior to Meganium.They're both the medium starter.
They got lazy with the fire starter in the sequels.
>>46986228where can I compare pokemons like that and see their total stats?
>>46986252That stat spread is based, my favorite water and fire type starters.
>>46986252>Incineroar has the same stats as Swampert except with 5 HP moved to AttackNo it doesn't. Swampert has a BST of 535, Incineroar has a BST of 530. Swampert also has 5 more Sp.Attack
>>47001216Based and Math-pilled
>>46986228Because it's a Charizard without wings moron
>>47002944"Based" is newfag lingo, don't try and undermine my post by association.
>>46994147>Has to add stuttering>Can't even come up with ANYTHING on his own for a comebackUtterly and completely mind broken over losing.
>>46986228Though I agree it's lazy. Why do people like to pretend that Typhlosion wasn't the superior choice until the physical/special split?
>>47004485Typhlosion is still the superior choice.Charizard is only good with its special snowflake forms, which make its stats different anyway.
>>47004974Wasn't Zard good without dynamax just a few VGC seasons ago? I remember seeing posts about its "3 fire move" sets for sun teams.
>>47005137Not really.It relies massively on Gmax Wildfire.It also relies on sun.
>>47004485Because Merrick made shitting on Johto the cool thing to do. In reality. Typhlosion only became worse than Charizard when Charizard started getting pandered to with extra special snowflake forms.
>>46986269I don't get it
>>46986228>Justify this Easy.1. They were still new to this.2. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that stat spread. Typhlosion suffers from bad move distribution.
>>46986276I don't think they thought Typhlosion looks better than Charizard. >>46986472I know this is bait but /vp/ is an awful, awful board.
>>46997513Interesting post, but you're giving GF far too much credit. Even during the golden Tajiri age, they just weren't that consistent.
>>46986293>>46986315You're so retarded that I fear any post replying to you has been a monumental waste of my time and effort. Commit Healing Wish.
>>46989391Cuz messi is better, so is kanto
The only cool fire type lines are magcargo, chandelure, and volcarona, everything else is beneath my notice so I don't care.
>>47008682and yet Ronaldo won more, same with Johto
>>47004454No it isn't you dumb newfag, even if it's been usurped it's been used for a good ten years. Xpilled is however.
>>47009279Yes it is. It only took off in 2013, which is a newfag year. Kill yourself, revisionist election tourist.
>>47007704They weren't consistent, but I could imagine them adding in a nice touch like that.
>>47007682>The Volcano PokémonNo Earth Power, No Ancient Power, No Stealth Rock>Volcanoes are among the loudest sounds in natureNo Boomburst or HyperVoice >Is A BadgerNo Snarl, No Hone Claws>Other Johto Starters and Charizard Get Swords DanceNo Swords Dance for Typhlosion>Quilava is explicitly described as nimble and Ash’s Cyndaquil regularly used AgilityNo Agility, No Extreme Speed >Other Pokémon with Flash Fire in the same egg group as Typhlosion (Arcanine and Ponyta) get Morning SunDoesn't get Morning Sun >Named TyphLOSIONDoesn't Get Explosion >Gets Gyro Ball and Rollout (which are useless on it) Doesn't Get Electro-ball, the one ball move which would actually be good special coverage >Is The Zodiac Rat and based on a hinezumi Not even Super Fang FFS There is no way Game Freak is is clueless, it had to be intentional sabotage or something.
>>47004481>S-STOP MAKING FUN OF ME!!!kek
>>47010806>Literally making things up in his own head just to try and salvage his destroyed egoAbsolutely anally ravaged.
>>47008682>Cuz messi is better, so is kanto? post elo
>>47010821imagine trying to lift your ego on an anonymous site
>>47011979>ProjectingI have no need of such things since I won. Kneel bitch.
>>47010800>FFS There is no way Game Freak is is cluelessAre we talking about the same Game Freak?
>>47010800>There is no way Game Freak is is cluelessYes there is.
>>47015434I’m just saying it’s pretty ridiculous that Game Freak is so incompetent 99% of the time, but whenever it comes to a Pokémon they want to shill, they conveniently become competitive masterminds. Cinderace is so disgustingly optimized for competitive that it’s infuriating, especially when some Pokémon are stuck being Do not ever use this Pokémon with the intent of winning games
>>47016465I don't think they become competitive masterminds.There's still plenty of accidentally amazing mons like Landorus-T.Cinderace was just an example of repeating what worked in the past with Greninja.
>>47015434PREASE LEVE ALONE ME SPACE BARRIER LUNCH BREAK CHOTTO KAISUGI CHUSUKE MINNAAAAAAA
>>46986228Appealing to casuals who always pick the fire starter and beat the first game with Charizard. Literally their entire thought process. Don't make Charizardfags learn to use a different Pokemon, we wouldn't want them to get angry and go on a killing spree outside their house.
>>47017893Typhlosion is also a fire starter, though.
>>47018403Yeah but Masuda specially didn't want it to overshadow Charizard for some reason.
>>46986269i can't, fuck flint
>>46986228They're both shit. Take your meds.
>>46986269It's literally unjustifiable and GF knew it, which is why they fixed it in Platinum.
>>47019596It kinda did, though. At least competitively.Simply having Eruption makes Typhlosion better than base Charizard.
>>47023291It really doesn't, Charizard has been better in every generation except 5. I don't think Typhlosion's ever been good in VGC either unlike Charizard.
They continually shit on my favorite monIt's not fair, Tybrosions...
>>47023578Base Charizard, I said.Of course Mega and GMax Charizards are better, but they also don't have the same stats as Typhlosion.
>>46986269more gym leaders and elite four members should step outside a single type.If I designed an Elite four, I'd base their teams around the four weathers. (also the four different battle formats, but that's not as important.)>Hail: Ice types, but also non-ice types with items or abilities that let them ignore hail damage (overcoat/magic guard(you can tell I have Reuniclus in mind here), safety goggles, etc.) [Single Battle]>Sandstorm: Rock, Ground, and Steel types. (sticks entirely to these types, but they don't share any weaknesses so it's probably okay. as long as they have some way to deal with Water types) [Double Battle]>Rain: Water Types, but also Dry Skin users like Toxicroak or an Electric Type carrying Thunder [Triple Battle]>Sun: Fire types, Grass types, and Heliolisk [Rotation Battle]
>>46986228abilities and typing distinguish them, that's plenty to make a difference
>>47016465There's some utility using shitty Pokemon if only to knock tierfags off your gameplan.
>>46986252Thanks for the insightful post. Makes me think about how outside of a few extra 210 in HP, 95 in attack, 230 in DEF, 100 in sATK, 225 in sDEF and 90 in speed Wishiwashi has basically the same base stats as Eternamax Eternatus.
>>47024476Base Charizard is better in Gen 4 NU, and Gen 7 NU. I would say Gen 6 NU but Typhlosion is in D tier RU because people used it so much even though it sucked and Smogon tiers are about usage which is why you need to look at viability rankings. In Gens 2 and 3 Charizard is also more viable once again due to Belly Drum.
>>47025471>Typhlosion is in D tier RU because people used it so much even though it suckedThat’s not quite what happened, typhlosion was banned from NU and put in NUBL. Anyone who wanted to use it had to use it in RU because BL is a holding cell, not an actual tier. That’s how it got used so much in a tier it clearly didn’t belong.
>>47025471Why isn't Charizard getting used enough to go up to tiers it doesn't deserve to be in?Isn't it kinda popular?
>>47024730Depends on how shitty we're talking here.Do you mean something weird and niche like Pyukumuku or something genuinely worthless like Ledian?
>>46986487This.Their abilities and movepools are completely different, and the presence/absence of Flying typing is a huge game changer.
>>47024730That only works if the shitty Pokemon in question has a movepool.