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Urshifu-Single-Strike has been banned from OU:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-suspect-process-round-8-voting.3676137/page-8#post-8712972

Are you excited for the next useless vanity suspect test?
>>
>>45895529
Smogon trying to make OU a single play style. FOH
>>
kek /vp/ was expecting a 90% ban vote.
>>
Good.
Ban everything until every team is nothing but Clef-Pex fat balance (we don't use the S word around here) cores.
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>>45895552
I admit I predicted something in the higher 80 ranges because the reactions to it were so overwhelmingly negative. I'm honestly surprised it's "only" 75%. Not that isn't a convincing majority but usually my ban predictions are more accurate. Did some Youtuber shill for Urshifu to stay in OU or something.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that this is yet another unnecessary suspect test that only accomplished one thing: wasting time
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>>45895557

Just use Magnezone bro
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>>45895576
Well once the rest of the votes are tallied, it'll probably be closer to 80.
>Did some Youtuber shill for Urshifu to stay in OU or something.
I don't think so. You'd be surprised how many people thought Urshifu was OK because lol checked by Clefable and Toxapex.
>>
Why can't they stop these vanity suspect tests
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>>45895703
Bullshit PR image politics. Can't ban stuff because then the social media masses who don't play get angry. But you still gotta ban stuff since it's broken. So you pretend that wasting months makes it more acceptable as if the average Youtube comments shitter even cares if it took 3 days or 3 months to ban something. He's gonna cry about stall and his bros being banned.
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>>45895529
well this looks like a job for me
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>>45895529
What's better, Smogon or VGC? Never played either, but any competitive format with a heavily curated banlist tends to be a tyrannical shithole in my experience.
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>>45895703
can you explain to a n00b like me what a vanity suspect test is
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>>45895827
A suspect test for something that will obviously end up being banned thus defeating the purpose of a suspect test. If everyone knows it will end up being banned what is the point of even testing it?
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>>45895873
Gotcha, thanks anon.
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>>45895583
Should I tell him?
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>>45895529
purely out of curiosity, how many trannies and women are on these ban councils? I'm guessing a lot.
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>>45895557
Urshifu made Clef more common
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>>45895816
/vp/ is a bad place to ask because they only "care" about VGC since its the official format. Care in quotations because they don't know the first thing about competitive, and circlejerk about how much smogon sucks but never watch or play vgc. Anyway, it depends on how you prefer to play. I'd recommend grabbing some teams and heading to showdown and trying both singles and doubles and going from there. They are very different metas.
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>>45896092
Shut the fuck up false flagger. This place has pro smogon people and anti smogon people. Almost no one actually plays VGC or even competitive for that matter. The anti smogon fags will usually mention VGC but dont actually play it.
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>>45895529
Good
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>>45896048
i have this strange feeling this question isn't just out of curiosity
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>>45896356
Depends on what you mean by curiosity. I find that places like ban councils and what not tend to attract authoritarian trannies and females. Just wanted to see if my notion was supported here.

Are you an authority tranny, anon?
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>Surging Strikes your path
nothin' personnel kid
i know it's not as good as single-strike but still
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>>45895529
cool now ban toxapex
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>>45896405
If you think Smogon bans too much chances are that you don't actually play. No, that is not a defense of trannies or the OU council. The OU council has plenty of faults you can criticize it for but banworthy Pokemon getting banned isn't one of them.
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>>45896419
it's not even close
this shitmon is almost UU
>>
What is going to take for /vp/ to get that busted offensive mons mostly beat other offensive mons
>>
How do you get to vote? Even when I was top3 during ROSA ans SM no one asked for my opinion.

Also I stopped playing SS after the Darminatan ban, so why is the bear being banned? Isn't the meta supposed to be stall heavy with clefable+teleport+wish, blissey, boots and toxapex everywhere?
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>>45896543
No. Stall is at an all time low
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>>45896419
Surging Strikes isnt as spammable as Wicked Blow and gets punished hard.
Aque Jet is balls too.
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>>45896188
Playing pokemon strat, be it VGC or Smogon, is one of the most pathetic things you can do. At least VGC has money on the line, smogonkeks however are just a bunch of subhumans too mentally challenged to try out video games with actual depth to them, not just a knowledge checklist within a shifumi within a dice roll.
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>>45896543
stall isn't even good
and brainlets can't grasp that pokemon like urshifu-s and pheromosa are more troublesome for offensive teams, forcing you to use defensive cores or, like vp like to say, "stall"
so, banning them actually helps offense
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>>45896594
Yeah, not smart to use vp as a reference for news. But clefable+wish+teleport seems really really good on paper. The same for chancey/blissey. What happened?
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>>45896455
you're right, I don't play. But seeing a format that categorizes pokemon into 5(!) separate tiers makes me very suspicious.
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>>45895529
So, what exactly was their reason for doing a suspect test and not just banning the thing outright? I mean it was a pretty clear cut issue.
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>>45896533
just used it in rain
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>>45895529
I wish the Trump march broke into the OU council instead of the capitol.
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>>45895557
Urshifu is the reason clef was used so much, it still might be top 10 but it wont be nearly as common
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>>45896048
I don't think there has been a single woman of any kind ever in the council
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>>45896419
*runs rocky helmet anything*
have fun dying after landing two hits
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>>45895576
>>45895703
>>45895761
>>45896757
>barely 15% above the neccesary cutoff
>THEY SHOULD JUST QUICKBAN AHHHHHH
Alright I'm convinced you don't actually care about the popular opinion and just want everything you dislike quickbanned without question.
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>>45897187
>15% above a supermajority cutoff
>'barely'
Also I find it funny that you say that we don't care about popular opinion when we agree with the popular opinion. But nice strawman dude.
>>
fanfic stall meta
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>>45897187
15% is not fucking barely not to mention you already need a 60% majority for a ban in the first place. If 55% vote for a ban it doesn't happen despite the fact that they're in the majority. More than 3/4s (since more ban votes are still coming in) voted for it to be banned and you pretend it was some close call.


Dynamax/Gigantamax: 86.7%
Arena Trap: 84.8%
Dracovish: 90%
Magearna: 82.94%
Pheromosa: 85.40%
Urshifu-S: 75.13%

Yeah bro, those look like some really close and warranted tests. Nobody could have predicted the outcome of these. The whole point is that popular opinion is that these things should go.
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>>45896934
>needing an entire team built around you to be useful
I mean,i exaggerated i admit since urshifu-r isn't terrible, but you can slap urshifu-s in any literal team and wreak shit. They aren't really comparable
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>>45896092
okay /v/tard
>>
>>45895529
Finally
>>
I'm shocked 14% thought Urshifu wasn't busted. it shows how retarded smogon's playerbase is
nobody's playing OU because it's ass, so these asshats can get reqs
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>>45895761
because of cancel culture, if you make one mistake on the OU council today you get kicked out, like ABR was
so in the Finch administration they'd rather not quickban anything and let the masses chose for themselves.
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>>45895529
you have your own fanfic metagame forums for the few who care about it
buy a 4chan ad banner for smogon otherwise
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>>45897232
lol 75% isn't even accurate since they're still counting votes, prob be low 80s when it's done
>>
>>45895529
>>45895576
Democracy is not wasted time, there is ALWAYS the possibility that ban cries are simply a vocal minority. Fucking hell, even when all the most thorough options are explored you still get shitters bitching about perfectly fair bans. Imagine their bitching if this suspect testing process wasn't even a thing.
>>
>>45898249
It is wasted time when the time could be used to test actually contentious Pokemon. There are only so many suspect tests happening. Not only do unnecessary tests let broken Pokemon stay legal for much longer than they should but they also prevent tests for stuff that isn't obviously going to be banned which is kind of the point of tests, to gauge if something really should go or not. Pokemon like Toxapex could actually be suspect tested if the council didnt love wasting time on tests with predictable outcomes. Nobody needed those months of Dracovish staying legal plus then staying legal for the time it took to get tested. It could have simply been quickbanned because the vast majority of everybody who actually plays the tier (or rather played it when it was still legal) recognized it's a busted metagame presence that has no place in OU.

Not to mention it only seems democratic when in reality the OU council can still decide to do what it wants anyway. If thy don't want to test a Pokemon then a Pokemon isn't getting a test, period. Where's the democracy in that? Mega Metagross got suspect tested in natdex, stayed legal and then afte a while ended up getting banned anyway because they figured that a good majority of people who actually got reqs didn't even end up voting since natdex was kind of seen like a meme at the time and honestly still is to some extent. What would actually be more democratic is to let the playerbase have more input on stuff that isn't clearly busted enough to pretty much always end up getting banned.

There hasn't been a single ban suspect test in OU so far that hasn't ended in an overwhelming ban vote. By the time something actually does end up getting tested it's clear it will be voted out. The shitters are the ones who think you need to waste months before testing shit like Dracovish, Magearna or Pheromosa. The more contentious and debatable a metagame presence is the more actual input is needed.
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>>45896451
Nope, gotta test Magearna again in 2 months from now
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>>45897160
I've seen Protective Pads Urshifu-R but it's probably only worth running with rain support since otherwise you don't hit that hard.
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>>45899143
The shitters are unfortunately the ones voting 24% no ban for shifu because they need a lazy crutch to stall break as they can’t into teambuilding, see you in 4 months when Magearna and Spectrier unsurprisingly get banned.
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>>45900193
>shitters
>getting reqs
pick one
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Can't wait for more cries of smoggies trying to explain how this somehow helps offense.
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Man, how does this little starfish still get people to act up so much?
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>>45897232
Dracovish honestly should have been quickbanned alongside Garmanitan.
It basically was just a slightly worse version than it, but it was still 100% UNGA! What an absolute waste of time.
>>
Reminder to not respond to desperate yawnfag bait. He hasn't gotten any replies so far this thread so now he's busting out the images.
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>>45900658
BASED
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>>45900193
>t. buttblasted stallpedo
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>>45900732
Not an argument. Thanks for proving you have no mind of your own.
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>>45899143
>Nobody needed those months of Dracovish staying legal
There were a lot of people who thought Dracovish was shit, though. Especially scarf, despite scarf being the #1 most warping set in natdex and OU.
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>>45895557
>Clef-Pex
So, this is the reason of why Galarian Slowking is OU...
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>>45896048
As far as I am aware everyone currently active in a council is a male (male). If there were trannies I would have known because of how vocal they tend to be about their condition.
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>>45896610
It IS good. It's just that Clef is forced into rocks duty as most rockers are 2HKO'd by STABs of Shifh.
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>>45900193
I honestly don’t think Spectier will be banned now that Urshifu is gone. A lot of Dark and Normal types are significantly more viable now that they don’t have to deal with Urshifu, and Spectier is absolutely shat on by Normal types.
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I was able to break 1800 the night before it was banned, using the black glasses bulk up set. Glad it’s banned however I’m having some fun building a trick room team.
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>smogshit bans another wallbreaker to protect stall
In other news, water is wet.
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>>45901434
People for a while tricked themselves into thinking it's not that "great in practice" because you were more or less required to run a water immunity or very hard water resist like full phys-def Ferrothorn unless you were using HO. But that alone is already a big telling sign that it's really fucking centralizing.

>>45901749
Even with Urshifu gone there are barely any Normal types worth using in OU aside from Blissey. Ditto doesn't count. That leaves what, Obstagoon maybe and one or two other niche picks?
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>>45902521
What's your trick room team? Melmetal is putting in a lot of work for me
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>>45901729
We'll probably see more Calm Mind Clefable again now too
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>>45902996
Obstagoon is most definitely rising up in usage with Urshifu gone. Not only because it fires off strong fighting moves, but also because it’s one less Dark wallbreaker competition, and it is also one of the best Toxapex counters as well.
Snorlax might rise in usage as well since it’s still extremely bulky and using Crunch isn’t a liability for Snorlax.
There is also the dark types, such as Bisharp and Crawdaunt, which benefit from the best physical Dark type in the tier being gone.
Oh, and there is also just general special walls being way more viable too.
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>>45895529
I haven't played comp since the first few weaks after release
What does thing do that makes it so broken?
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>>45904065
Great offensive type 2 very reliable and strong hits, one being 120 dmg and the other a 80 which always crits making it basically a 120 dmg as well which also don't care about stats so Lando is not a switch-in, strong priority, having the right coverage to smack resists to stabs, bypass protects, it has good bulk for an offensive mon 100/100/60. It's simply too good, it's has been like this since DLC1 but because DLC2 his suspect been postponed.
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>>45904065
Decently fast for how strong it is, super braindead spammable STAB move that always crits, can't be scouted with Protect because of its ability, is actually pretty bulky (at least on the physical side) so it can be hard to revenge kill, strong STAB combination (both essentially 120 BP moves) is only really walled by fairies which it can pack coverage for and faster Pokemon are threatened by STAB Sucker Punch. It also has U-Turn to potentially retain momentum or Bulk Up to become pseudo-wincon.
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>>45904104
>>45904123
Wow. Auto-crit sounds fun to abuse but what the fuck were they thinking.
Thanks Anons
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>>45904135
They were thinking that Shelmet walls it because of Shell Armor
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>>45895557
Nidoking says hi
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>>45903007
I tried using melmetal but it has issues with heatran because I also use alolan marowak. So I’m using magearna as my bulky steel since it can also set up trick room. I also use a dusknoir with curse and trick room but I honestly think that’s what is holding my team back as I’m stuck 1400 when I usually hit 1600 with meta picks.
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>>45905326
Nido is hard to bring in and you typically only want to switch in if you can threaten a KO. If you not you’re taking a massive amount of chip back or even KOd yourself
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>>45905464
Dusknoir sucks in singles, too much of a momentum sink that doesn't bring enough other support options. Bronzong gets Stealth Rock and Explosion and also Earthquake for Heatran. Could be worth trying out.
>>
Gen 8 will be over before the Toxapex suspect. It's as strong as it's ever been and it still won't fucking get banned, despite the clear need to do so for 4 years now.

Urshifu should've been quickbanned, just like Pheromosa
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>>45904123
>>45904104
You undersell it. It was simply THE best offensive Pokemon in the game, and it shat all over any Pokemon that didn't outright counter it. Its only flaws were middling speed (base 97) and middling special bulk, but they were still more than serviceable, allowing it to switch in on Spectrier to threaten it out or outspeed a good portion of the meta.

Its offensive typing meant that anything that wasn't part Fairy was going to get murked, but it could also run Poison Jab or Iron Head to kill them anyways. No Fairy in OU is fast enough to outspeed the bear, minus already setup Magearna and the odd Tapu Koko. It could also conserve momentum using U-turn, and had the ability to run scarf, band, life orb, and plenty of other items. It could revenge kill, it could set-up sweep, it could wall break, it could do just about everything, and even worse, it could've also been RShifu, which has its own set of counters entirely separate from SShifu. Beyond not even knowing what set it is, you couldn't even know what type it was before it came out, meaning you couldn't even prepare for it. Being part Fighting also meant it took negligible chip from stealth rocks, and it could muscle past most offensive teams that relied on rocks and momentum.

I'm glad it's gone.
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>>45906092
You didn't need to spoiler that last part. Those two, Dracovish and Magearna should have 100$ been quickbanned. Arena Trap too. Laughable waste of time.
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>>45906161
>Its offensive typing meant that anything that wasn't part Fairy was going to get murked
Well there is Buzzwole and Zapdos-G, but the former is only useful for combating Urshifu, and the latter couldn’t consistently switch in.
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>>45895917
yes
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>>45906236
Oh yeah, them too. I just forgot about them because they're not all that good.
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>>45896048
>trannies and women
not in the pokemon community. it's mostly furries and pedophiles. you're thinking of the among us community.
>>
I miss pokemon online ;(
>>
suicune+rillaboom is going to ravage the tier
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>>45906816
Suicune?
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>>45906816
Not if Ferrothorn has anything to say about it.
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>>45906816
>BlissBro is going to ravage the tier
FTFY. This core cheezes through teams no matter which wall breaker you use with it now that it lost its best counter.
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>>45906953
>Landorus-T's in your path
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>>45904065
Hits like a truck, has literal perfect coverage, and forces you to run otherwise useless mons just to counter it.
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>>45907544
Clefable is probably the best Pokemon in OU for 3 gens in a row.
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>>45907683
No, it isn't. Best in gen 6 and contender for best in gen 8 too considering it's never gotten banned but it wasn't even close to being the best Pokemon in gen 7. It's also not a counter when your opponent predicts the obvious fairy switch-in. He obviously meant Buzzwole although Aerial Ace is a thing too but usually not worth running.
>>
Urshiwhatnow? This one doesn't even look like a pokemon! How many do they plan on making? 10,000?
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>>45895529
Good riddance
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>>45907683
Clefable isn't Landorus.
>>
Finally something that makes clefable less centralizing
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>>45906817
Have you seen the recovery Sub Tect under Grassy terrain gives Suicune? Combined with Pressure and Leftovers, every Sub it does is healed like fuck and it doesnt die.
>>
Next to go will be Magearna, then Cinderace, then maybe Spectrier, then it ends. If your team isn't running at least one of those it isn't viable.
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>>45908527
Landorus-T is clearly not the best in gen 6 and it' not the best in gen 8 either though it has more if a claim in that gen.

>but it has the highest usage this gen

Yeah, on the ladder. Doesn't mean it's better than shit like Magearna or even Clefable.
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>>45906867
Ferrothorn gets PPstalled effortlessly.
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>>45906161
>Its only flaws were middling speed (base 97) and middling special bulk, but they were still more than serviceable, allowing it to switch in on Spectrier to threaten it out or outspeed a good portion of the meta.

There was also this:

>120+ Atk Life Orb Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 292-344 (85.6 - 100.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

100/100 is above average physical bulk for an offensive Pokemon. Despite having a "low" BST for a legend it was minmax'd like shit so the spread played higher than most mythicals.
Urshifu-SS is a bullshit mon and I'm glad it's gone.
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>>45906953
Crawdaunt, obstagoon, marowak, rillsboom, kyurem all beat this core
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>>45906092
Pheramosa wasn’t quick banned there was a suspect for it
>>
>>45895917
>thunderbolt for corv / pex
>flash cannon for clef
>body press for blissey

?
>>
Why the hell hasn't anyone made their own showdown yet? It's open source and there's even guides on how to host your own server
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>>45909521
That was my point, it should've been quickbanned .
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>>45905484
>Nidoking is hard to switch in
Not if you have your own Slowbro, but you can also hard switch it on Clefable if you are confident it doesn't have Knock Off.
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>>45909620
there is many servers already dipshit
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>>45909517
And only one of them isn't a shitmon.
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>>45908568
If Landorus isn't the best, then why do more people use it?
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>>45909764
Because it's versatile and easy to slap onto a team. And it always ends up doing something.
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>>45909764
Why does /vp/ not understand that usage doesn't equal viability?
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>>45896419
You're running the wrong choice Item, how are you supposed to outspeed cinderace and kill it in one surging strike?
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>>45896732
thats a problem with gamefreak being terrible at balancing rather than smogon itself, there's 6 different tiers and despite that theres still a stupid amount of fully evolved pokemon that are usable in none of them
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>>45896732
How many tiers do you think there should be? Only one like in VGC, where 80% or more of the available to use Pokémon never see the light of the day?
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>>45911459
Furthermore viability doesn't equate to centralization.
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>>45909764
It's team glue. It might not be overpowered, but it checks so many boxes that you use it to round out a plethora of your team's weaknesses in one slot. Need a bulky U-turner and Intimidater? Lando's got your back. Scared of Regieleki? Lando's got your back. Need a physical tank? Lando's got your back. Need a stealth rocker? Yup, Lando.

Rain teams run Lando, Trick Room teams run Lando, Sun teams run Lando, Sand teams run Lando, fat balance teams run Lando, hyper offense teams run Lando, stall teams run Lando. Anyone can put Lando on their team in lieu of a more centralized niche pick, and many choose to do so even if it's overall not that great in the current meta. I usually run Lando on teams until I figure out what their major weakness is, and then swap Lando out.
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>>45911870
>80%
That's being generous
>>
>>45911870
>>45912975
It's actually around 8% viability in veggie sea. Over the 6 usage tiers in Smogon, it accounts for ~42 x 6 / 600 or about 42% of Pokemon being viable in one tier or another.
>>
>>45911881
however, something could be so viable that you are at a detriment not running it.
like landorus. you can slap it on any team, so why wouldnt you? its versatile as shit, and unless you pack something for it, and its many many sets, you might just lose because of it.
>>
>>45897232
>Dynamax/Gigantamax: 86.7%
That was a mistake caused by competitive youtubers losing their shit and sending their fanbase to do the job
Should have added more tiers (and changed the naming convention like they did with UUBL), and it would have all regulated itself, with the immense benefit that team matchup would be less of a deciding factor.
>>
>>45913219
Dynamax would have been 100% if not for autismos that didn't want to ban it because "it makes the generation lose its identity".
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>>45913219
Absolutely nobody who actually plays wants dynamax to be legal in regular singles. In randbats or something maybe but not in the standard tiers.
>>
>>45913219
It absolutely was not. I play randbat a lot (I have 4 accounts over 1700 rating in randbat), and Dynamax is awful. Well, in random battle when you can't always pack Metagross or Gyarados, it's not as bad, but there are a handful of dynamaxers that just auto-win games, and it's only a matter of killing there one, maybe two checks and auto-winning. Gyarados, Metagross, Tornadus-T, Zygarde, Kabutops, and Barraskewda can all solo win games. I've had matches where I 6-0 someone because I started with an auto-win Dmax Pokemon and set up before they could even do anything about it.

The only thing I wouldn't mind a retest on is Gmax Pokemon. Allowing specific Gmaxers to use there gimmick wouldn't be so terrible I think, especially since most of them are actually inferior to the Dmax moves they replace, and because you could easily predict a Gmax on Machamp or Gengar or Lapras or etc.
>>
>>45907544
>literal perfect coverage
toxicroak
>>
>>45913433
Toxicroak is so frail that it'd die in 2 hits even to a resisted hit.
>252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak on a critical hit: 208-246 (67.7 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Toxicroak on a critical hit: 166-196 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO


Even with max physical bulk investment, it still gets dunked on by the bear.
>>
>>45913041
>like landorus. you can slap it on any team, so why wouldnt you?
Because the other Ground types still have extremely valid niches over him. There are team compositions that prefer Garchomp or Swampert over Landorus.
>and unless you pack something for it, and its many many sets, you might just lose because of it.
If you aren't prepared to Landorus-T you aren't prepared for Garchomp and Excadrill and that's honestly a more severe teambuilding flaw. It's not like it requires specific switch-ins like Urshifu did either.
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>>45895557
Post elo
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>>45913290
I'm surprised the dynamax suspect for randbats ended with it staying legal but then again randbats is by the far the most popular tier among casual shitters.
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>>45913433
Aerial ace, zen headbutt, Wicked blow will still deal over half
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>>45914030
Dynamax actually helps a bit in randbats when your match doesn't get cursed by the spider of weakness policy or his flying type compadres. Being able to set your own weather without wasting a turn can help a lot of Pokemon that would otherwise be dead weight, like Poliwrath.
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>>45914186
>>45914030
Here's an example of what I'm talking about with Dynamax being absolute bullshit every now and again. Some Pokemon can just 1v6 with just one boost. It's obnoxious

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1261089237
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>>45914030
if i play rands i usually play older ones now because 8 is just so fucking braindead, also mmr is inflated to high heaven on the ladder as a result
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>>45914211
People at 1100 elo get swept by anything, that's not exactly very convincing evidence even if I agree with the point that dynamax enables bullshit "just watch your opponent set up and win" games.
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>>45914414
It's the same shit all the way to the top. If you started with that Komo'o set, nothing short of a faster Fairy type is going to save you.
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>>45912946
>eed a bulky U-turner and Intimidater? Lando's got your back. Scared of Regieleki? Lando's got your back. Need a physical tank? Lando's got your back. Need a stealth rocker? Yup, Lando.
>Rain teams run Lando, Trick Room teams run Lando, Sun teams run Lando, Sand teams run Lando, fat balance teams run Lando, hyper offense teams run Lando, stall teams run Lando.
And you see no problem at all with one Pokemon being able to mindlessly perform any role?
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>>45913433
You can substitute Poison Jab for Iron head to hit Toxicroak neutrally.
Toxicroak just isn't enough of a threat to justify that.
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>>45914948
Nope because he has so many counters despite that
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>>45914948
It’s a bit dumb, but at the end of the day, it’s not some super threat that requires one or two specific pokemon to counter it with. It’s just good at performing in a lot of different roles
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>>45914948
Yeah, what's wrong with that? Anything it can do 3 other Pokemon can do better, at the very least. It just does a bunch of things well, so it can fix most problems with your team.
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>>45895598
>You'd be surprised how many people thought Urshifu was OK because lol checked by Clefable and Toxapex.
Because it does.
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>>45915041
That’s the point.
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>>45915077
If it gets checked by Clefable and Toxapex, then how is it not OK?
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>>45915838
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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>>45915858
Clef needs to be switching in on Urshifu to lose, and your Pex calculations don't account for Scald burning 100% of the time.
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>>45916710
you're a fucking idiot
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>>45914435
>If you started with that Komo'o set, nothing short of a faster Fairy type is going to save you.
it's called dynamax Calyrex-Shadow
Calyrex-Shadow is far more broken in randbats than dynamax alone is
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>>45916726
>Sucker punches in you're path
Psssh, nothin' personnel kid
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>>45916726
Is randbats actually that unbalanced?
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>>45917069
There are about 20 Pokemon that will insta-win you a game unless you get one of their few counters. It's a huge mess. The level disparity needs to go from 75 - 88 to 70 - 90.
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>>45917101
Oh, and by having the floor be 70, I'm talking about for Pokemon like Calyrex-Shadow, Zacian-C, Eternatus, Glalie, and other absurdly broken Pokemon. Bad ubers like Zamazenta-C or Genesect can stay level 75.
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>>45916964
Dynamax Calyrex-Shadow sets its own Psychic terrain. it's bullshit
>>45917109
Calyrex-Shadow is so powerful it still basically wins games by itself even at Level 70
only 5 mons naturally outspeed it, and all except Tapu Koko are shitmons
Zacian-C is very strong but can lose to a dynamax that resists its STAB moves, anything that can eat a close combat can KO it back
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>>45909764
It's basically a crutch for teambuilding because it fills so many rolls in one slot.
It's immune to electric/ground resists u-turn and fighting, and can set up rocks or defog.
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>>45916710
Those Pokemon are supposed to be able to switch in safely. Obviously they don't actually switch in that safely if they take that much damage. One single correct prediction from the Urshifu (which isn't that hard considering how obvious a fairy switch-in is) and your Clefable takes around 64% damage which means it can't stay in and heal it off. Same with Toxapex and Wicked Blow but at least Toxapex heals itself. Still, something else switching in will have to take a Choice Band Wicked Blow hit.
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>>45909285
>Despite having a "low" BST for a legend it was minmax'd like shit so the spread played higher than most mythicals.
So you don’t know what minmaxed is, got it
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>>45909667
What did he mean by this?
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>>45917962
He meant only Rillaboom isn't a shitmon because t's the only one that is OU. If a Pokemon isn't OU it's obviously an unusable shitmon.
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>my toxapex killer is gone
lol epic
now what? do they want everyone to use landorus instead?
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>>45917942
I like how you didn't actually disagree with his point, you just wanted to pipe in with a little bit of needless word autism like that fat-fingered monkey you are.
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>>45919657
I hate the autistic argument about the term "minmaxed" that you always see it lately on /vp/. Urshifu's stats are objectively well optimized and having 63 special attack instead of 5 doesn't change this fact.
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>>45919795
For some reason they believe if a mon doesn't have a Shuckle-tier stat spread, it's not mixmaxed, ignoring the obvious fact that even a sweeper doesn't want paper-thin defenses when priority and scarf exists.
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>>45919875
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>>45919657
I’m sorry he’s a retard who doesn’t know what minmax is. Maybe we can help him out

>>45919795
That still doesn’t make it minmaxed

>>45919875
>For some reason they believe if a mon doesn't have a Shuckle-tier stat spread, it's not mixmaxed,
Yes. That’s what minmaxed is
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>>45906092
>before the Toxapex suspect
I guarantee you the Zamazenta-C suspect will happen just before Gen 9 comes out, and— whoopsie doodle! I guess we never got around to that Toxapex suspect! Pokemon Salt and Pepper are out lmao! Better luck next Gen I suppose :^)
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>>45920564
Zamazenta drop is laughable and I hope it's just a Youtube meme and they're not actually considering it especially when theres still shit like Spectrier and Magearna in OU. Even if those are banned Zamazenta shouldn't drop anyway. It's clearly too much for OU, don't care how much it sucks in Ubers.
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>>45895529
Good riddance, now maybe people will not be forced to run Clef/Fini in every single team.
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>>45920590
Unfortunately, the Zamazenta-C suspect has gained popularity in discussion because it's just that shitty of an Uber. I believe NatDex also made it a popular discussion because they entertained the thought of unbanning it too, but NatDex is a whole different metagame than Gen 8 due to Z-moves, megas, all the Pokemon existing, and moves like Hidden Power sticking around. However, that will only happen when the meta "stabilizes" (or when Gen 9 gets announced and has a concrete release date).
But remember, they only want Shield Form to be suspected because of the fact that "it can't hold an item" and "slower speed (even though it still outspeeds the majority of the tier). Everyone unanimously agrees that Standard Zamazenta should never see the light of OU.
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>>45920725
>Everyone unanimously agrees that Standard Zamazenta should never see the light of OU.
not really, regular Zamazenta has the same offensive problems as Zamazenta-C, so the defensive counterplay is the same
and unlike Crowned, if you see regular Zamazenta you know it's either going to be band or scarf. sub/howl/leftovers is a meme set.
regular zamazenta is one of the better checks to crowned as well, since it's faster and not weak to its own STAB
it's just that zamazenta-c is so obviously weaker it's easier to start a conversation with that than both forms at once
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>>45917643
Isn't a crutch supposed to be a bad thing?
Why would Smogon encourage lower-skill play?
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>>45920536
>>For some reason they believe if a mon doesn't have a Shuckle-tier stat spread, it's not mixmaxed,
>Yes. That’s what minmaxed is
No it's not.
Shuckle has 10 attack and special attack. That could easily be dropped down to 5 each and those extra points could be pumped into HP and defenses.
A base stat lower than 5 is, of course, unprecedented. Even Shedinja's 1 HP is hard-coded and technically not a "real" base stat.
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>>45921326
>not really
yeah, really. You can easily search through it through the Smogon forms. None of them stated that they wanted regular Zamazenta to be tested.
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>>45921361
>Isn't a crutch supposed to be a bad thing?
to some people
obviously in an ideal meta there would be tons of eligible Pokemon to fulfill the Lando role
but the fact is GameFreak didn't make them, and those mons are just worse than Lando.
consider Rillaboom, it's a shitmon outside of its priority role, but there is literally no other mon who is a strong priority revenge killer right now
scizor is too weak, breloom doesn't exist, marshadow, arceus and urshifu are banned,
if you banned rillaboom the only form of revenge killing would be scarfers, and that would negatively impact the meta by pushing faster (weaker) scarfers and setup sweepers
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>>45921413
Also Mamoswine, but it's weak as well. Doesn't even get a guaranteed OHKO on Hawlucha with Adamant + Choice Band.
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>>45921413
>consider Rillaboom, it's a shitmon outside of its priority role
Why does this meme continue to get perpetuated? It has Grassy Surge, U-turn and decent stats, it would be at worst just as good as Tapu Bulu which is itself only UU because it is massively outclassed. It's not that priority is bad and Rilla just happens to be barely good enough, it's that Rilla is so good it makes almost every other priority Pokémon not worth using.
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>>45921369
>No it's not.
Yes it is
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>>45921512
>Why does this meme continue to get perpetuated?
Their autism wouldn’t let them admit that it’s good so they try to handwave it as them being shit without the key qualities it has. This really isn’t anything new, they’ve been doing this with Grass types for years
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>>45921512
>it would be at worst just as good as Tapu Bulu which is itself only UU because it is massively outclassed
Tapu Bulu was OU in Gen VII as an offensive Ash-Greninja check. All four Tapus were used as Greninja checks because Greninja even in base form destroyed Heatran and Lando, and in turn Heatran checked all 4 fairies. This equilibrium is why Clefable fell down to UU for a while in Gen VII.
The use of the four fairies relegated Breloom to UUBL, because it was cucked by all four terrains and the typing. Hence why Kartana, who isn't a priority user, filled Breloom's place as an offensive Grass/Steel.
Breloom falling meant that Mega Scizor, Mega Medicham and Mega Lopunny became the premier priority revenge killers, leading to more Lando usage as a soft check to them.
In Gen VII, there is no place for an offensive Grass due to no Ash-Greninja warping the meta around it broken. Rillaboom makes due because Grassy Glide is 70 BP. If it was 40 BP like other priority moves, it would be too weak to justify in OU.
U-Turn, Knock Off, a good spread and ability do not make up for a subpar typing (see: Incineroar). Offensive mono grass is bad.
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>>45923348
It was seeing use even before Grassy Glide.
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>>45923846
>It was seeing use even before Grassy Glide.
>Rillaboom | 0.85384%
>Rillaboom | 0.18052%
>Rillaboom | 0.15919%
it's a shitmon. it's held up in OU by virtue of the strongest priority ever and held back by an awful offensive/defensive typing.
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>>45921413
>and that would negatively impact the meta by pushing faster (weaker) scarfers and setup sweepers
wouldnt we want more speed, more sweepers?
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>>45923991
it depends on if you want centralization or diversity
centralization is not bad in Gens II-III since it's focused around iconic mons in an inherently unbalanced meta, where removing a Snorlax or Tyranitar just makes the game worse
diversity is more valued in Gen VI because your Mega is your "ace" and there are many viable team permutations you can build around that ace
Gen VII isn't balanced even today, Ash-Greninja, Magearna and Tapu Lele are an unhealthy teambuilding presence, but it's 'stable' due to the national dex providing many different options for team styles and counterplay
in Gen VIII, it would almost certainly be worse, you would see shit like Timid Regieleki to outspeed scarf Latios
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>>45924049
It's worth noting that Gen 7 is objectively the most varied in what sorts of team styles and pokemon are usable while technically being the least balanced.
Gen 6 has some of the worst variety nowadays. Modern tournaments have devolved into Mega Metagross balance vs Webs every match.
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>>45924084
Megagross is broken and should have been banned ages ago. Yes, I know it had a suspect test. Still should be banned.
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>>45924113
kept in check by Mega Sableye which was banned at the end of Gen VI
once Mega Sableye was banned, Mega Metagross should have been banned alongside it
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>>45924128
That's not really the case I think.
Sableye is an ok check but it loses to Meteor Mash raises since they mostly run SpDef. It's also basically only used on stall which also runs Skarmory or Slowbro so eh.
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>>45921537
How can it be minmaxed if its useless offensive stats aren't minimized?
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>>45923960
It got Grassy Surge and Grassy Glide almost at the same time. We don't have stats with Grassy Surge but not Grassy Glide but I can assure you it was already a popular pick.
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>>45923960
>it's a shitmon. it's held up in OU by virtue of the strongest priority ever
First of all, Rillaboom has other qualities like U-turn and Knock Off, the former being insanely useful because it also has Grassy Surge. This means it passes arguably the best overall terrain in the game to who ever it wants. U-turn into Toxapex/Heatran for double leftovers and weakening Earthquake. U-turn into grounded Life Orb abuser to midigate the Life Orb recoil. U-turn into Kartana to have even more powerful Grass STAB. U-turn into Hawlucha to give it an unburden boost.
Second, that’s like saying Calyrex-Shadow is just a shitmon and is only Ubers because of its 165 Atk with 150 Spe. Of course removing the good attributes of a Pokemon will make it a shitmon.
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>>45924939
>U-turn into Toxapex/Heatran for double leftovers and weakening Earthquake
if this were actually a legitimate strategy more mons would run High Horsepower to bypass the terrain effect.
in the real game, a mon like Lando, Zapdos or Moltres defogs away the terrain rather than attempt to attack through it
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>>45923960
This, honestly
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>>45924964
Heatran + grassy terrain has been a thing since forever.
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>>45925005
heatran didn't exist until Crown Tundra retard
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>>45925019
Utter lies.

>>45925005
Not even true
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>>45925055
you don't play
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>>45924964
The two most popular Ground types don't have High Horsepower, and the imperfect accuracy plus making contact is a severe enough drawback to discourage its use unless you are using Rillaboom yourself. The actual perk of Grassy Terrain is the passive healing anyway, the Earthquake damage reduction is just a bonus.
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>>45924964
>if this were actually a legitimate strategy more mons would run High Horsepower to bypass the terrain effect
High Horsepower doesn't have the retardedly common distribution that Earthquake does.
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>>45906953

What is BlissBro?
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>>45926647
Blissey and Slowbro.
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>>45925055
I love /vp/. Confidently stating something that is complete bullshit.



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