A rant about code changes which didn't fit into the OP:
Combat mode is a piece of shit which overloads your right click with what they used to do in other modes while moving the context menu to shift right click. And why? To make one aspect of the game marginally easier for new players? To allow coders to use the right click for alternative actions even though there are already plenty of ways to do add other actions? There was also the fiasco with coldmos, where they "fixed" the atmospherics simulation which ended up being pretty ridiculous for weeks. Things like someone broke some windows in space somewhere in maintenance and it causes the entire station to have insufficient oxygen and be cold. Also would cause anomalies like plasma fires spreading very fast (whole evac on fire in a second kind of fast) or a small draft of space cold deleting most of a blob's tiles. And there are changes which also have nasty chain effects, like the removal of sec shotguns causing some antags to be a huge PITA or the removal of cloning essentially decreased the probability to be revived (while you could theoretically revive the average dead body faster than cloning if you know what you're doing, there are still issues with people no longer bothering to bring dead bodies to medbay or just nobody competent playing medical sometimes). There are of course some good changes, like the improved dynamic gamemode which gives midround antags consistently, but the bad changes are just so needless and infuriating.

>>813429
One especially shitty set of changes which was outright player-hostile were the anti-Metastation map vote changes. Basically, coders at some point decided to force players to not play Meta, which they did by forcing a map vote every roundend, with maps played multiple times in the past few rounds removed. So you could play Meta twice, but then you had to move to another map, each one having its own set of issues. After people just played the two best maps (Meta and Delta) interchangeably, they decided to double down and expand how many past rounds it looks at, forcing players onto shit like Box (with powernet bugs which made the station lose power after 20 minutes), Donut (notoriously shit, was turned into a multiz experiment then removed), Pubby (before it was removed), Kilo (which wasn't present for a while) or Icebox (which replaced Box at some point and was pretty hated).

>>813425
/vg/ is probably the only good semi active server that still runs, but its in an awful state right now.

>>813712
>but its in an awful state right now
codebase-wise or playerbase-wise?

>>814859
the codebase is just getting stagnant
>absolutely zero contributors that add worthwhile content
>a metric fuckload of schizo contributors that do nothing but try weasel shit in with questionable backends or changing features to "improve" roundstart/how the game parses shit
the administration is just as sad too.
>current administration team is a hugbox of people who are all friends with the host and all the quality admins who were both helpful and wonderful gamemasters have fucked off from the community entirely
>several of those quality admins kept shitty players in check, but due to their absence these players now consistently ruin rounds
>most of the current administration team barely answers ahelps or tries to keep rounds interesting
its really sad to see, honestly. few other servers caught my interest and now that /vg/'s in this strange in-between state of having a semi-active playerbase again for it to only get squandered by the lack of contributors and people who actually care about the game. its deteriorated so much in terms of rp and how people play, it feels like tg.

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>>813712
It's not that bad but the thread is in a shitty state because they can't really block the people who get banned from shitting it up.
>one day someone starts shitposting about adding avali to the game and generally only shitposts
>this continues for months
>tries to make up a conflict between vox players and avali players with no success
>april fools comes, coder adds avali to the game
>they instantly die on spawn because lore-wise they melt at room temperature
>random player who joined at that time shitposts in almost the exact same way as the avali shitposter in the thread
>gets banned for shitting up the thread, doubles down on shitposting on the thread for a while before leaving
>ckey gets searched up
>
Turns out he is mentally unstable. Also probably a "lolcow" with a kiwifarms entry.
In any case the unstoppable shitposting on /vg/ (because all the janitors are busy sucking off their own generals, thanks for /vg/ Moot) led to most of the community isolating themselves on the Discord server which meant even less presence on the thread.
SS13 might've been better on /v/ but now that most of the players play on shitty popular servers like TG, Colonial Marines, Paradise etc. the threads don't have much quality to offer, /v/ is full of all sorts of casuals and zoomers who eat all that shit up, and it's no different for SS13 threads.

>new /vg/ server opens up
>Immediately filled with dramafags
>abandoned by host shortly after
Come back toomy

>>813425
>>813429
Bee has a lot of old-tg stuff; like cloning, intents, old traitors with roundstart objectives. Its admins aren't that bad either; at least they are much better than Fulp's or Para's and don't metagang (haven't seen any proof of it yet). On the other hand they are much more antag friendly, so long as you are not murderboning, so sec is half castrated because of it but they still do have shotguns. The servers are MRP so no LRP speak in chat but if you really want to do that then LOOC it and no one will care about muh immersion breaking. Bee also add exploration which is very enjoyable and is currently adding shuttle to shuttle space combat FTL style which is very dope.

>>815387
toomy is a fucking dramafag, anon. i don't know what you expected
>gets banned several times
>banevades, gets caught
>doesn't try to make peace with /vg/
>decides in his infinite wisdom he'll copy the repo and half-ass running it because "fuck pomf, free the shitters."
toomy just thrives off of drama, he might as well be one of /vg/'s lolcows
>>815361
the thread has been awful, forever. the avali poster was funny to witness though. i do just wish the drama would stop and the administration would get it together and nip a bunch of problem players off the server.

As an outsider looking in, I question why everyone in this thread is calling for the banning of every player they don't like. Isn't space station 13 all about embracing the chaos and fighting within the confines of the game itself?

It starts to read like a reddit thread when anons start talking about banning "problem players" instead of just trolling them into the dirt by tripping them on a mopped floor and harvesting their organs or some equally silly shit. Do that, then get back to more peaceful jobs, right?

>>816418
Also, havings a literal rulebook per server to follow is the dumbest/most acoustic thing I've ever heard of. The fewer rules the better, the gameplay should determine what's possible and let the good times roll!

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>>813425
I feel you anon. I was a goon player and thought about switching to TG since it's a codebase started by 4chan. and the current state of goon is just filled with tranny mods and anti bigotry rules.like calling people retard or even mentioning the word will result in instant perm ban. plus the amount of people that will instant ahelp if you were acting like antag as a non antag. and this is goon1 we are talking about, shit is supposed to be chaotic and every round shouldn't be the same. but yet people put these kind of restriction on the gameplay where after even just 1 week of playing you can see the pattern and the game play began to became bland. and this is just one of the problem that goon has. for my case the reason I quit the game in general was that I was a chemistry nerd. making unconventional weapons that can be very powerful. one of the tranny admins end up hearing about me and thought It would be "better" for the community if he were to keep an eye on me on what I always make on the start of a round and nerf the shit out of the chems I use. I only noticed this after being told in game to check out their discord which had admins discussing about Me and talking about if they want to ban me for just prepping some basic self defense and healing chems start of every round. note that I don't even use the harmful mixture for griefing UNLESS i was an antag. after I heard about that I kinda just don't feel like playing it anymore. It's like people who plays this game for half of their life and delicate their life on this codebase seems to lost the meaning of having fun and let others have fun. I'm damn sure that making self defense chem and make them like a everyday carry shit doesn't exactly harm anyone. maybe for antags but goon seems to not care and some time even encourage valid hunting.

>>816418
you have a point anon. but consider sometime some problematic player are literal nolifer on this game and power gaming to the max. they know all the tricks out there. nerfing said trick will only delay it. plus nerfing features most of the time only makes newer players that want to have fun with said feature unable to enjoy it, and only experience the circumcised version.

personally I think it's a hard choice between just banning the guy that is problematic or nerfing the features that the problematic person is abusing. It really becomes a slippery slope and before you know it you get code base like goon that is supposed to be chaotic turning in to restricted fun. or having admins that follow people around and instant nerfing fun stuff.

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>>813425
Why is ss13 in general just filled with literal reprobates wanting to groom people? the game as a whole was a pretty quiet autism playground but now its yet another hyperwoke echo chamber.
>YOU WILL NOT SAY FAG
>YOU WILL NOT METAGAME
>YOU WILL ACCEPT FURRIES & LIZARDS
>YOU WILL NOT DISAGREE WITH US
will it ever swing back to being a fun game?

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>>816516
The closest thing to a true SS13 server was /tg/station. But that was slowly killed by trannies, furries and coders who never actually played the game (but kept fucking with the balance for some godforsaken reason).
>the game as a whole was a pretty quiet autism playground but now its yet another hyperwoke echo chamber.
This ordinarily happens because all admins are socially awkward and have no experience gatekeeping, so they eventually start bending over backwards to meet the demands of retards who keep stirring shit.

>>816418
Metagrudging is a bannable offense, you can't really get away with singling out a bad player a bunch of times or else they'll report you when they see your ckey too many times as the one who just fucked up their round even if you're an antagonist.
Usually the bad players end up breaking the rules anyway and then the admins (who have been grudging them too) will immediately rush to find the most extreme punishment they can get away with. This can even extend to other admins too, I heard of a case of a /vg/ admin getting demoted in record time because he admitted to looking up some guy's address in a completely different community he was an admin on months ago (and the reasoning was something about "the playerbase's trust"), and all of that was because he was acting like a cunt on Discord and you wouldn't really know it in game, even though /vg/ doxxes your IP if you get banned.
>>816419
Most servers started out like that but people don't want chaos all the time, they get bored of everything being ruined all the time by a clown, if a server doesn't have a rulebook people will accuse the admins of banning on a whim, people get mad that some got away with something and the others didn't. Nox and Hippie were chaotic but both eventually closed down.

Speaking of the state of SS13, what's everyone's opinion on things like OpenDream, or other projects that port codebases out of BYOND and into better languages/engines? Would you download a separate client just to play a single server?
I've been tinkering with getting current tgstation to run on OpenDream, it compiles, but is missing a handful of features to make it run properly.

>>816650
TG's rules allow you to metagrudge as antag, I think it makes more sense that way since antags can do a lot of stuff anyway.
>because he admitted to looking up some guy's address
IP address or actual address? Because IP is probably the most useless piece of information that's considered personal.
Also, a Terry admin got permabanned for joking about doxxing someone in some discord which wasn't even affiliated with TG. Pretty lame.
>if a server doesn't have a rulebook people will accuse the admins of banning on a whim
Yeah, I think having rules is definitely better for any slightly bigger server, precisely so you know you can and can't do.
>Nox and Hippie were chaotic but both eventually closed down.
Didn't Hippie die from internal drama?

>>816657
I think it would be nice to get away from BYOND and into an engine you can change in order to fit SS13 better. Also would help with running it on Linux. I tried doing that sort of thing myself from scratch but only got as far as writing the preprocessor and an (incomplete) parser. Even if I can get through the language implementation part I still don't know how complicated the game engine part would be, since I never really did any gamedev. Still, I think it's a better bet than a from-scratch remake of the game itself (Unitystation, SS14).

One day I will join one of those macro furry RP servers and ERP.

>>816671
>IP address or actual address
Actual address. From the context all he did was personally tell the guy his own address and it all happened in a completely different non-SS13 community.
>Didn't Hippie die from internal drama?
It did. Chaotic servers attract bad players.

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>>813425
>play on shit server
>"omg guys why is it so shit?"
every time

>>816516
don't forget getting banned for coincidentally killing a tranny few times and he gets butthurt and thinks you are holding a grudge against him

This game's entire community is just a bunch of meta cliques where they never want to be challenged or insulted in any meaningful way.

>>817363
RP games do be like that, but it also makes people not leave the server if they feel at home with friends so the servers which have those metacliques are doing VERY well player-wiise

>>817363
>workplace simulator
>be surprised when people associate with the coworkers they like and don't really make an attempt to interact with ones they dont like

>>817927
>across multiple lives

>>813425
>The host circumvented headmin approval and directly added an anti-bigotry rule while claiming it's not going to be about blanket-banning slurs. And surprise, surprise, later headmin terms made it into a blanket-ban of slurs.
it really sucks that we can't have anything good for the forseeable future until people like this are made to fear for their physical safety until they learn to stop ruining things on purpose

>>817927
>coworkers
It's literally a video game dude LOL

>>816418
>Isn't space station 13 all about embracing the chaos and fighting within the confines of the game itself?
SS13 in its most common formulation does not work without admin enforcement. Features like ghosts, AI laws, hypnoflashes, etc. are all based on players intentionally handicapping their behavior in order to follow some rules. In a more abstract sense, the whole crew vs antags concept is also based on such outside-of-game-code rules.

>workplace simulator
>coworkers
>you can't play without troon jannies bwoinking you for picking up floor tiles
reddit bs12 moment

>>816418
Whiny redditors just want to play 2d minecraft with their discord clique.
>can't pick head roles or security to enforce peace on the station

However there are two extremes, braindead point-and-click chaos and furry chatroom.
True ss13 is right in the middle.
The most crucial thing is semi-active coding outside of adding troon socks and ugly graphical overhauls.

Goonstation circa 2013 is kinda like that, too bad they didn't open sourced it.

A decade of open-source code contributions lead to feature-bloat. What would've swung as a cool and fun change in 2011 no longer holds up in 2023, because every aspect of development has incrementally risen in complexity, due to increased interest in the game, as well as more competency amongst the code-literate.

For the record, I don't like the changes, either, but it's only natural: the game simply cannot, by natural law, remain stagnant if the goal of the people developing is to retain interest. Of course, in my opinion, the magic of the game is lost when "balance," and "integrity" start to factor in to code change decisions, but what can you do? The game is still niche, but it has certainly grown in popularity compared to my time, and it's obvious to me that it's no longer a video game for TTRPG and Dwarf Fortress autists. Time to move on, OP, as I did.

t. played starting in 2011

It is the "engineer's dilemma": do you want a game that prioritizes "fun"? "Balance" takes a hit. Is "balance" your priority? "Fun" takes the backseat, then. The perfect middle-ground doesn't exist, and even if it did, it is impossible to reach, because any given "engineer" - coder - will inevitably fuck with an already good thing in an attempt to achieve perfection.

>>827674
Why do you need balance? Balance in a non-esports game is interesting only in how it factors into fun.

>>827974
To be clear, I am not making the case for balance in either of my posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sjwqUten0

This is the average TG coder, nowadays: an amateur game dev tranny, who thinks about the game from a design perspective, and focuses on matters of legibility and accessibility. The game was better when people like this weren't the brunt of code contributors, because what made SS13 SS13 was, in part, its lack of direction, and the resulting attempts of the players at parsing out meaningful experiences.

>>828019
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sjwqUten0
I find it funny that some of the good things he's claiming aren't really true, like accepting pretty much any contributions (for example, there was/is a ban on offstation content). He also omitted the detail that the original coders for circuits were pretty much malicious. And of course, he has an entire part of the presentation whining about the flak he got for removing nanites.

Frank从角色三聊天 jannie grudges性按钮 21 february 最大上限 free irish 与撒旦发beepsky leaks生性关系 secret terry sec discord 静态 1 appeal, 5 strikes 框架 fuck jannies 精灵 farweb 天鼠 kneeling erp 计时器事件 isis execution videos 鹰座站自由静自由 door smelling 静态态 pepsi sandwich 自架按

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>>815293
I used to be a vg admin on lowpop and it was fine, bussing was fun, being a tard wrangler did genuinely improve things, but the weird schizo discord friendship groups/frenemy drama was exhausting. You can distance yourself from it, but then the host overrules some decision because a guy sucks his dick and one of the five headmins exposes that there's a secret cabal of decade old players and admins who influence the administration while hating the game and it all becomes very tiring.

>>829289
BD?

>>829252
The French killed fartweb

>>829252
Terry 从角色三聊天 jannie grudges性按钮 griefing livrah 最大上限 free irish 与撒旦发asay leaks生性关系 secret terry sec discord 静态50 notes, 23 bans框架 fuck jannies 精灵 skyrat 天鼠 felinid shower erp 计时器事件 ice cream hacks blackmarket 鹰座站自由oranges静自由cat girl tail linking 静态态

>>829448
fuck no

>>828019
I think game design (lwfb) works it's just TG took the factorio tranny direction.

>>829912
What’s the game design like, I played frwb and it was just entirely roleplay

>>829930
It's fine, it plays like an actual game and there is purpose to things other than just "create funny machine for the 45th time" and "get all the best gear and go kill people"
If SS13 was a game with purely random features it'd be a hot mess, and that's exactly how it is now, old SS13 had coherent mechanics that allowed for chaotic moments to happen, now it's that with 10,000 more layers of bloat.
You'll only find 'gameplay' like this on Baystation (Which has no gameplay direction and people come and go constantly) or VG (Which is super primitive and people don't want to admit it.)

Old Goon was I think the perfect'ish point in the game for a while, like the man said, the gameplay is almost exactly the same but now all the devs are mentally ill and the graphics changes have completely ruined the feel of the game.

>>829984
Can you be more specific, my experience with these x-web servers is being bored, shitting myself and dying of a stubbed toe

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>>829897
Oh.
Anyway I think the most alarming thing is just how few players actually care about anything resembling 4chan's culture anymore. I get that people grow up and move on and still stay around in the community but a major point of the server was that it was 4chan, but nobody seems to care about that anymore. It's not a good outlook that all the newfags are either tourists who don't even know about the /vg/ thread or edgy teenagers who think that saying nigger is how they'll fit in. Someone has been constantly shilling opening the server to the hub for months and from the looks of it he succeeded and now the server is on the hub on lowpop.
It's hard to pin down the lowpop to any particular cause but my guess is that:
>the main thread being a dumpster fire because of a few shitposters with somehow nothing better to do
>most new players that browse 4chan play on the shitty popular servers and likely get driven away by the state of the general and the fact that most discussion moved to Discord
>lack of new content, most coders left, there are only 1-2 collabs left who only merge things every 1-3 weeks or when poked on Discord
It's a case of the old guard being too uninterested in playing anymore and the new guard being terrible replacements, much like 4chan itself. SS14 would have looked promising but it's full of TG features and the main game will likely be just TG+ by the time it shapes up for a proper release, and very few communities will actually move over to SS14 because everything would have to be ported over on top of having to cut out most of the content. Plus the code team is full of Twitter people, one newfag made a PR to change the janicart pussy-wagon keys because he had no idea they are a Kill Bill reference and they merged it https://github.com/space-wizards/space-station-14/pull/13069. And it's spearheaded by a collab from /vg/.

>>830563
>https://github.com/space-wizards/space-station-14/pull/13069
I’m not sure what to say other than the guys making these PRs are weirdos. It’s like they don’t know what human interaction is so they just say something is problematic and leave it at that

I kinda liked the thing TG does now where there are a bunch of midround antagonists and they're basically guaranteed to spawn if it's not lowpop

personally I liked vmstation, too bad it died apparently, for some amusement I cloned the repo and am now hosting a server just to see where it goes

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Lifeweb is still fun

>>834015
From what I remember, the server never really had a lot of players but eventually it was just permanently lowpop so the host shut down the server since nobody was playing anyway. I didn't play on it myself since I'm an EUfag so the peak hours were too late (and also my dreamseeker kept crashing for some reason).

>>835289
he said hes too busy with school and shit but that he wants to get back around to hosting it, that was a while ago though so i dunno

who remembers europa station? it was an underwater station with psionics and playable octopi and shit - was fucking awesome, so of course it had no players and faded into obscurity. this has always been a game of missed potential

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>>834015
Drop some links anon, I was one of the guys who helped run /vm/station back in the day. Honestly biggest hampering was the fact the server used an ancient version of /tg/ instead of using a modern version of /tg/ and working backwards. Plus wasn't enough people able to admin/code.

But to any other anons reading this thread, how about we start our own codebase again? This time we should work on it without really launching the server. Then when we have something cool and unique we actually start hosting the server. First impressions matter a lot and launching in a state that's just "le /tg/ fork" bores a lot of people. Part of the reason /tg/ maintains its captive (dwindling) playerbase is due to the constant stream of updates it gets.

For our codebase I suggest we do something with a recent-ish version of /tg/. Something either before intent removals or after they polished combat intent and got rid of a lot of the weird glitches/oversights. We should strive to really get that old feel that late 00's-mid 10's SS13 had.

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>>839943
They're the same style anon.

>>840403
anon... that's an outdated image.
wait till you see the new clothing sprites.

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>>840413

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>>840403
If you look, you'll see most items are a lot softer and the contrast on most things are heavily reduced. Same thing happened in Minecraft and zapped all the SOVL out of it

>>839916
I remember it.
Psionics were overrated and the wizards were just turbo psykers.

Any hosts here? I'm a somewhat experienced coder working on a vanilla revival of /tg/

This is a weird thread to me. I played /vg/ semi-frequently and left satisfied and basically have never engaged with any drama like you have experienced.
Is that bullshit just a consequence of living in the server, or are other servers really just that bad outside of 4chan?

>>841873
/vg/station is the exception to everything ITT, yes.

>>813425
As someone who plays Terry basically all the time (ever since the sseth video) I can say that I really enjoy the server and the game overall.

My biggest gripes are:

1) No democracy with map votes, maps removed from vote cycle after being played
2) Being forced to choose between ONLY Icebox and Kilo on lowpop, Ice is literally huge so you can't say meta or delta are "too big for lowpop" so I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY WOULD DO THIS DUMB RESTRICTION???
3) Any time the station is 15 players or below, threat rolls only sleeper agents and infiltrators because it can't roll anything else, so you end up having 70% + of the station being traitors doing objectives, this is not an exaggeration I have been experiencing this for a year now. The mystery is gone completely, and there are some autists who get all their dopamine from killing others when you're only a handful of people on the station sparsely spread across your own departments

These things annoy me the most, and I have completely ignored bugs or broken things because those can be fixed, the first 2 points are choices made by people who don't play the game and think that forcing players to play through all the maps instead of giving them choice is a good design choice

All in all though from hearing people speak about other servers I concluded that Terry is better. The admins on terry basically never interact with the players unless you clearly did something wrong, and even then I find that most of them interact with you in good faith and aren't looking to ban you

This is my experience on TERRY, I've been to the american servers once, and got all the bones in my body broken by an admin momentarily after I said "nigga we made it!" to my pod mate, never messing with Americans, terry is good.

VG is getting fuclked up by some spazzoid who keeps crashing the servers. whack

>>842299
That would have been a good admin complaint seeing as you did not do anything to invite the admins cool joke

>>842428
Yeah maybe, but it was my first time there and I didn't know how they do things around those parts so I just assumed Its normal for them to do this, I have bad ping there anyway so I would rather just stay out of the American servers

I'm the anon who proposed using a GitHub bot to comb through TG commits in the vmstation threads last year.
I did end up implementing that bot in Python but the workflow ended up being extremely autistic. Basically, the best solution I found for presenting merge conflicts was just committing it anyway and making a PR, complete with the git conflict markers. I also implemented commands for requesting a PR for a certain commit and for having commits modifying specified paths skip ahead in the queue. It's useful for getting towards some goal faster, for example tgui-next.
Now in hindsight, I see that it would be much less autistic to just make the bot have some sort of UI outside of GitHub which could give maintainers information about which commits in the queue can be merged without conflicts. It would also be better to make PRs only on request, with multiple commits batched together. The maintainers would manually cherry pick the conflicting commits, and the bot would then update its database accordingly.

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>>843227
Hey anon, I was the head trannymin for vm. Never got around to making much substantial coding. Looking for other people who are down to do another attempt at a /vm/ server. As it stands I'm looking for some guy to actually host the thing. Original host (Pain) might still be around.

>>843560
Sorry, I can't host. I don't have a server and have no real experience hosting anything (I'm reasonably Linux-savvy though, but SS13 servers seem to use Windows for some reason) and generally I'm not always available which is important for hosting.
I could help with coding. Not sure how to rate my familiarity with DM, but I usually knew how to find how items/mechanics work while playing, did some DM coding, and know the common DM weird stuff. I also know programming in general. I could review new code, backport stuff from TG, etc.
I was never an admin on any server, so I'm not familiar with admin tools (besides coding-related stuff, like the spawn verb and var editing).
Are you interested in the GitHub bot? Its approach might be a dead end, as I said in that post.
Is the attempt the same as the one laid out in >>839928? In that case, what major TG changes would you say are important to consider when determining the fork point (both changes to drop and changes to keep)? The fork point for vm seemed pretty arbitrary, and it was kind of unlucky in that it missed the addition of dynamic mode by a few days but nobody bothered to cherrypick it in. Also, late 00's-mid 10's was before my time, so I don't know what the game was like back then.
Regarding forking TG in general, maps are especially a pain in the ass. Git can't do shit with conflicts on map files, and TG's map merge tool thing leaves merge conflict markers that mapping programs don't understand, so you have to go in with a text editor and resolve the conflicts. Or it used to, maybe strongdmm or something implemented support for it. And you'll definitely run into conflicts and required map edits due to code changes which require map changes, especially if you drop a major map redesign, or want to revive a map TG dropped, or drop a major map-affecting code change like the cloning removal.

>>843685
I have experience admining on a few based servers (Merchant, /vm/) and I'm an experienced programmer outside of SS13.

The current forkdate I'm using for /tg/ roughly this week, that way I have fix/QOL parity with modern /tg/. I'll just have to worry going forward with keeping up with any bug fixes.

My plan is to develop the codebase in private (unless someone else is interested) and release it publicly once its in a state that actually feels unique and interesting.

When where you when toomykins saved SS13?
Gutter is back baby
https://gutter.host/
Death to all other servers

>>>419626357
>tranny discord clique playing 2d minecraft and griefing everyone they don't like for ooc reasons while being backed up by troomy the admin
Nah, i'm cool

>>844030
You dropped your url, king.
>>>/vg/419626357

>>844030
>join a server to grief and multikey
>get banned
WOOW

>join server
>autism in engineering to get power on a half lit station
>get killed by troon warden who was afk instead of maintaining the hugbox

2012-2015 was the golden age of ss13. Vast majority of players were anons, and the admins were mostly anons as well. Rounds were chaotic and fast and no one gave a fuck about balance.

Everything since then has just been trying to recreate that same feeling without understanding why is it was good. ss13 dead. Bad players, weak admins, and spiteful coders killed it.

>>844103
It's all the fault of discord. It used to be that you log in to play, everyone on the server is a completely random nobody, just another faceless 4chan user. You may see some regulars and you recognize them from playing with them, no OOC shit, you don't know who these people are, only your experience with them in the game. There was no one to impress.
Now they're all on discord circlejerking 24/7. It's full of attentionwhores who will make their circle of sycophants. Now there is gossip. People share their dumb retard politics that no one asked for. OOC grudges. Admins now spend all their time online getting to know every idiot on the discord, people sucking up to the admins and getting special treatment.

In 2011 someone just dropped a link to a server on /v/ and you'd hop on and play a game with randoms. No different from jumping in a random game of Epic Mafia or those multiplayer puzzles.

>>843694
>once its in a state that actually feels unique and interesting.
Do you have anything specific in mind? I'm not sure if you actually need big shiny features for keeping players. I think the old vmstation died because the old TG just had a lot of sucky stuff, there wasn't much coding going on, and the playerbase never reached critical mass.
But having unique stuff could attract players, I guess. That's a bit of a chicken and egg problem though, because you need players to playtest.

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>>844118
Well this hit the nail on the head. Fuck.

>>843694
I've been wanting to do this but with /vg/ code, I know exactly what to do to make shit more interesting but there's so much bloat that I don't even know where to start cutting. All I want is the atmosphere, engineering and medical and then I could make the rest from scratch and have it be actually organized and easy to add shit too.

>>844118
What exactly is it about Discord that breeds this behavior.
IRC was pretty much the same thing but I don't remember people being such faggots back then.

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>>844246
take pic related with a pinch of salt who the fuck came up with this saying wtf, but the tl;dr is that it's some kind of vantablackpilled echobox full of social rejects

>>844258
Didn't this guy literally just describe 4chan?
Except for the part about vetting and gatekeeping

>>844246
It's just discord having too much functions to keep autist engaged and show their made up identity. One don't post status, voice chat, stream, pic and emoji reaction, embed video and so on on IRC that barely has any influx and traffic.

>>844258
The only thing this guy is wrong about is how hard it is to get in these communities. It's not hard at all. You can just go to reddit, look for a leftist subreddit and join the discord. I used to use plug.dj and out of curiosity I joined a communist room and pretended to be a communist. Same shit in there, extremely depressing, insanely degenerate, always talking about raiding places and what they're going to post on 4chan to convert the masses.
If you've truly seen these people in their natural habitat you will know that these things are a manifestation of pure evil. Every bad quality that has ever existed put in the bodies of AIDS ridden cancer patients.
These people make incel communities look normal and wholesome.

>>844103
See, I know you're a newfag, because you cite the final year that the game was actually in its "golden age" as being the start of it. There was an irrevocable vibe-shift in 2011, when high schooler /v/ posters caught wind of the game during summer break, and the game has been in a perpetual decline since then. 2011-2012 were still redeemable years, because much of the old guard was still holding fast against the tide of underaged newfags, but by 2013, reddit servers like Paradise and Yog had cropped up, the death knell had been sounded.

>>844276
and the death knell had been sounded*

see, i know you're smallgamez refugee and a pubbie because the only real space station 13 was a goonstation

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>>844226
I'm more of a old /tg/ kind of guy myself, but I wouldn't mind stuff like that in /vm/2

>>844133
I'm going to focus on immediate stuff, adding a new simplified map that's optimized for low-mid pop rounds that also is feature complete and has a lot of rooms to fuck around in. As one of the guys who helped with old /vm/ I believe it died because it felt stale. It just felt like another "going to die in a few weeks" /tg/ fork.

I have a few ideas I'm working on right now, I'll probably update everyone with some proof of concept videos and concept arts. One thing I'll say for now is that I'm working on a system where shitters can get bans that don't remove them from the server. Rather if you have some retarded third worlder who can't speak English but must griff, you can "station ban" him. He won't be able to spawn on the station, but he can instead spawn in fucked up space ruins/z levels. He'll have a free grief license, but he'll have to figure out how to actually play the game ("wtf is carbon dioxide!!").

>>844103
100% that was the fucking peak and I miss it so much. Back in the day a good chunk of servers literally forced random names to prevent people from fagging it up. As much as I love having a retarded static name, forced rando names is a necessity on a lowpop server.

>>844246
>What exactly is it about Discord that breeds this behavior
Discord combines the attention whoring and sekrit club mentality of internet forums with the high speed low attention span of modern social media. While it's a useful application and I use it to talk to my friends, Discord servers (many users, few channels) are natural magnets for mentally ill narcissists.

>>844289
Goon lost SOVL circa 2015. Also it caught the same terminally online jannie infestation that SomethingAwful had.

>>844276
This is insane history revisionism. New people joining isn't an issue and there was no ''old guard'' of cool badass oldfaggots guarding the gates. If a player was an issue they could have just banned them. Admins have never been shy about banning people.
The 4 events that ruined SS13 were these in order:
>/tg/ distances from 4chan and calls itself TG because 4chan is too racist (2010-2012?)
>discord is made and every player moves to discord (2013)
>g*mergate happens and every server doubles down on becoming SJWs (2014)
>tranny acceptance happens when tumblr rejects escape the retard pen and somehow get into the real world (2015)
Maybe add a fifth event when every server had a memorial for Fentanyl Floyd

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>>844303
That's true to a degree, tg had some 4chan rejection drama pre 2015 and from that the actual /tg/ made d20 and NT station. However /tg/ only became outwardly hostile to 4chan sometime after 2016. Also nigga, Discord didn't even come out until 2015.

Regardless, pinning the historical dates of SS13's decline aren't as important as figuring out why servers declined in the first place.

>>844303
But we already have banana and monkeys in the game.

>>844315
Servers decline because leftists are mentally ill and to become an unpaid admin and seek positions of power you have to be a sociopathic little weasel with mental problems.

>>844321
>to... seek positions of power you have to be a sociopathic little weasel with mental problems.
Hey I think I figured out why democracy is fucking shite.

>>844289
Guilty as charged. I remember poo, though, and Conco's Hut - remember Conco's Hut?

>>844303
>/tg/ distances from 4chan and calls itself TG because 4chan is too racist (2010-2012?)
LOL - no, this definitely did not happen between those years. "Racism" was not a hot button issue in 2011 as it is now - nobody even cared enough to say "nigger" in-game, even ironically. /tg/station started to make the shift around 2013-2014, when MrStonedOne (a redditor) and oranges took the helm.
>discord is made and every player moves to discord (2013)
Again - no. Discord didn't become ubiquitous until around 2015-2016. All OOC communication was carried out via the respective server's forums, with some of the more entrenched community members using IRC channels.
>g*mergate happens and every server doubles down on becoming SJWs (2014)
Separate issue to what I'm talking about, which is that the game had already been tarnished before any "appeals to wokeism" started to take place.
>tranny acceptance happens when tumblr rejects escape the retard pen and somehow get into the real world (2015)
Your timelines are all kinds of fucked up. Quit talking out of your ass, newfag.

>>844343
kill yourself tranny

>>844345
I am an adult human male.

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AHEM, anons

Listen, we all hate autogynephiliacs, furries, and other identityfag autists who shit up games. No need to turn this thread into a schizophrenic argument orgy about the TRU & HONEST dates/reasons/etc for servers dying.

YES MSO is a faggot
YES Oranges is an attention whoring sex pest faggot (see his ban appeal where he begs to be unbanned form discord after sexually harassing people)
YES nu/tg/ is lame, boring, and gay
YES modern SS13 sucks
YES admins are fucking lame

but also

YES we can make it better this time, for realsies™
YES we have the power to make our own paradise
YES we can establish our own server culture
YES we can curb gay powertripping admin policies

If our forebears could do this shit 10+ years ago with zero documentation or help, so can we

WAGMI

>>844345
>misinfo spouting retard has no real rebuttal

>>844365
The game has always been propped up on the shoulders of no-life autists, but no-life autists ten years ago were not what they are today - that being transgender furries.

>>844302
>I'm going to focus on immediate stuff, adding a new simplified map that's optimized for low-mid pop rounds that also is feature complete and has a lot of rooms to fuck around in.
Wasn't there somebody working on an updated Ministation for vm?
There's also TG's Kilostation, but it was really hated and I don't remember why. I only remember the obnoxious amount of decals and the funny fake nuke disk.
>Rather if you have some retarded third worlder who can't speak English but must griff, you can "station ban" him. He won't be able to spawn on the station, but he can instead spawn in fucked up space ruins/z levels. He'll have a free grief license, but he'll have to figure out how to actually play the game ("wtf is carbon dioxide!!").
So like the oldstation and the derelict but you're an antag? It sounds like something one would want to unironically play once in a while. And I guess it's an effective isolational measure for griefing the round, since you're probably not going to reach the station.

>>844226
>but there's so much bloat that I don't even know where to start cutting. All I want is the atmosphere, engineering and medical and then I could make the rest from scratch and have it be actually organized and easy to add shit too.
Why do you need to remove so much? I don't know how vg's code is, but in TG code you can add random shit relatively easily, the biggest pain usually being map changes.

>>844118
The way I avoid it is I don't interact with anyone outside of the game, it works for me

What is someone started a server but then just made it no rules and never banned anyone or even made his presence known.

>>844462
>probably not going to reach the station
Eventually you will if you drift long enough. Space will be expanded and I'm currently toying with a station forcefield idea with a single point of entry.

As for normal players wanting to play it, my idea is currently to make it be something you can sign up for pre-round. Then when the round starts the server checks if there's a reasonable amount of station crew, if so, you can be an exile. That way you don't end up with >90% of the server being space wandering exiles.

>>845088
>no rules
Server will just get raped by metagamers playing with friends in a Discord call killing anyone who joins.

What if server, but permadeath
That is, you're allowed to use the same character from the previous round but only if you didn't die
Roguelike style hi score list for people who survived the longest
Jobs get unlocked as you work your way up through the ranks but the unlocks reset if you die
Is this a stupid idea? Has this been done before?

>>845109
>I'm currently toying with a station forcefield idea with a single point of entry.
What would that bring?

>>845173
Would that mean you have to remove all the revival mechanics or just that the thing that counts is whenever or not you're alive on roundend?

>>845173
Everything about it is a bad idea. The people who want permadeath are a minority and they can already do that themselves. Just delete your own character when it dies.
It would encourage people to go after statics that have survived a long time. People would just bypass it by changing their character from John Smith to Jon Smith, Johnny Smith, Johnn Smith, John H. Smith. If you roll traitor it would dissuade you from doing traitor things, you won't e-implant yourself or do anything that would lead to your death. There would be in increase in jobbies and pod babies who do nothing all game. Powergaming would be encouraged and more people would go out of their way to make sure they're as safe as possible, loading up on chloral, getting guns, building their own chem dispenser and those powergamers who survive would be rewarded with better stats and unlocks making their powergaming worse. There would be drama over deaths and you'd have to be more cautious since if you accidentally kill someone they'll now whine to admins that you deleted their character instead of just accepting death as part of the game, now the admin has to look at the situation and revive the death character.
It's just a bad idea all around. I don't see any upsides.

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>>844302
I just don't see how a new server could get a decent population without it getting cluttered by the usual crowd at this point. Still, you're doing the Lord's work anon.

>>845232
>Would that mean you have to remove all the revival mechanics or just that the thing that counts is whenever or not you're alive on roundend?
Obviously all the hugboxy revival stuff should be removed. Death would mean death.
>>845255
>It would encourage people to go after statics that have survived a long time.
Not necessarily a bad thing. Those characters would be seniors on the station so it's natural they have targets on their backs.
>People would just bypass it by changing their character from John Smith to Jon Smith, Johnny Smith, Johnn Smith, John H. Smith.
Admins could intervene if this gets egregious enough. I don't necessarily see this as a problem if people spend only the minimum effort to pretend to be a different guy and not remember things from their previous lives.
>If you roll traitor it would dissuade you from doing traitor things
Traitors should have their character reset whether they survive or not. I understand this means fewer people would play with antags enabled but again I don't see the problem.
>There would be in increase in jobbies and pod babies who do nothing all game.
That's just realistic, and they won't be able to prevent their deaths indefinitely anyway.
>Powergaming
Nah not a problem. People will always powergame.
>There would be drama over deaths
Ban people who raise drama.
>now the admin has to look at the situation and revive the death character.
This would be a case of the admin being a fag.

I take it no one has tried this. Would be an interesting experiment.

>>845232
>>I'm currently toying with a station forcefield idea with a single point of entry.
The idea is this, there's an item similar to the grav generator. You need to set it up round start (needs more than power). Without the shield generator the station can be boarded from any point and it also isn't protected. The shield however, won't cover a docking point near arrivals. That will be a heavily reinforced part of the ship with motion sensors to alert sec/AI. The one-way part of the shield means that you can always leave from any part of the station, but you can only return from the docking point.

The idea for the shield is that it keeps the station safe/allows the station to know when it's getting boarded. (Antags like Nuke Op will probably have force field disruptors). So that way you can have a shit ton of grief license wielding people spawning in space without the entire station constantly being griffed.

If you plan on making a /vm/station anon, I would still recommend building off of a modern build of /tg/. They made a lot of optimization improvements in terms of the game not shitting its pants, whatever gameplay changes would probably be easier to add/port to that version as opposed to the fixes they've done being ported to an older version.

someone give me a codebase to run and instructions and I'll put it up

>>845519
>you should make a le based TG code server no 2290414809147 it will surely work this time
might as well not even try and save yourself having to see a rerun of the pathetic life and death of /vm/station

>>845770
Eh. It honestly feels like the problem lies in that people just aren't interested in trying out new servers at this point. TG's code doesn't sound like the culprit.

>>845173
>Jobs get unlocked as you work your way up through the ranks but the unlocks reset if you die
What if the station gets maxcapped? Does nobody get to play captain for a few rounds?

>>845852
It is
Nobody cares about playing TG code on a server with 10 people
People will care more if your codebase is something exotic

>>845907
Speaking of exotic codebases, I'm trying to get a Septic Shock server up, the database and everything is fine but when I load in its all black besides the HUD, menus and some other things.

>>845918
Sounds like the infamous BYOND black textures. Can you play other codebases? If you can then it might be a resource problem.

>>845938
I can, I'm not sure what I need to do to fix Septic Shock from this issue.

>>845918
What's the septic shock base like?

>>845953
I've got some videos of it, I don't have experience with it or knowledge personally but here's videos + codebase
https://gitgud.io/bobstation/bobstation-reignited/-/tree/EscapefromNevado
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJt6dKYAdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aep5f653DE

if I make a server I'm gonna make the background of it in this codebase based in islam in pure story and try to change the flavor to reflect that and make non-human species slave races who lost their identity and became servile to humans.
of course I dont give too much of a shit enforcing that I just want the background

>>844265
on 4chins we cant get real numbers on it but there are a lot of guys who are really sad and awful like that but a majority are ordinary people. Everybody I know in real life that uses 4chan is just a normal and just is autistic about liking certain things (which they find stuff for on 4chan)

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>>845867
>What if the station gets maxcapped? Does nobody get to play captain for a few rounds?
Last time I played ss13 (I think it was /tg/) there was a system where, if anyone had captain selected, even as a low-priority job, it'd pick one of them at random if it couldn't find someone who wanted to play it. I'd think the essential jobs for running the station (Captain and I think it's just Engineers besides him, because the engine isn't going to go critical by itself, you know!) could just be automatically filled by the "most qualified" players, defaulting all the way down to the ten-hours space noob who's still figuring out the interface, and who'll probably end up dead or spacing himself upside thirty minutes.

>>844303
>>discord is made and every player moves to discord (2013)
Anon, Discord came out in 2015.

>>844462
There's a lot more bloat in /vg/ than you'd expect, I had an idea to cut down on guns by just making a few types of weapons but making them super customizable but the way guns are in the code it's impossible to do that without starting from scratch. I also wanna make hardsuits be a bit more customizable too and that system is already in but could be fleshed out a bit more and have some icon changes, rather than hardsuits being their own icon they'd have a base and have overlay parts slapped on them as you upgrade them, like in dead space when you upgrade your suits. By making these systems simpler it'd be easy for people to add their own ideas in so even DM illiterates could add stuff to existing systems. If I managed to get things done and started my own server too I'd have a way I'd wanna run it too, have "canon" rounds every few months like some RP servers have and depending on how the round ends something is added to regular rounds, for example one canon round would involve nanotrasen sending an experimental weapon on to the station to be tested, it'd be delivered on the cargo shuttle and have to be taken to science and security to be tested and have people there test it and write up a report, after the testing is done they'd have to get it back to nanotrasen, either through the cargo shuttle or the escape shuttle. But there's a catch, all syndicate agents that round spawn with the objective to cooperate and steal the weapon. Depending on where the weapon is at the end of the round different things would happen, if syndies never got their hands on it it'd become available as is on the research database, maybe with a few slight tweaks and icon change, while if syndies got it it would become available through their uplink after a few tweaks and getting a syndicate makeover, the reports and things would help too, if either side only got the reports they'd get a nerfed version of the weapon available in either RnD or the uplink.

>>846540
I remember when I got banned from /vg/ like 5 or 6 years ago maybe more permanently and came back 2-3 years later on a vpn/different ckey and they added super saiyans and other retarded shit.

>>813425
>bitches about ss13
>doesn't think to run his own server his own way with his own rules

>>846773
And have fun playing with myself?

>>846838
just make a server that doesn't suck and people will play, atleast i would. and make sure it's on the hub.

>>846840
That's not enough, it seems. You need good coders too. If you just use tg code, people will simply play there instead, likely due to having more people.

>>846848
baycode > tg

>>846858
Every new server attempt used tg code, as far as I know.

Just do what the streamers do: they port from tg or bee or goon with some minor changes but have a regular time for playing, when they stream its highpop and when they don't it's lowpop (ie russtation, monkestation, and probably more examples for russian streamers too they get even more viewers).

>>846871
a HRP baycode server where racism of all kinds is allowed is the stuff of dreams....

>>846885
I sure do love the 456th 'le refugee' funny death lfwb server.

>>846858
bay is the last totally not horrible server.
trust me, it's horrible, but it's the last without the crappy rules, even though it's all transmins.
the server has been the same for 5 years because they hate any good ideas, though.

>>847018
cringe
>>847029
desu this

decapitate valkyrietrans

>>845960
I tried running that codebase locally and it just gave me a lot of runtimes

>>845960
>>845918
Anyone got a QRD on Escape from Nevado?

I found out about it a month or two ago, everyone said that it was dying, now there's an entirely new codebase coming out?

Gutterstation 4 lyfe

>>847837
shill me on gutterstation

>>847979
Gutter is an off-shoot of VG. That differentiates it from VG is that gutter has no tolerance for trannies and the host said he'll never allow a trans admin unlike VG that worships trannies and has tranny admins.
The problem with gutter is that the host is a lazy retard and the server needs more work and no one plays there because it's not fully finished.

>no tolerance for trannies
lol
lmao even
https://www.byond.com/members/Carmine%20Eve
https://www.byond.com/members/Kawashima_Yoshiko

they also boast about pop when it's all freshly made alts
https://www.byond.com/members/Inna-chan
https://www.byond.com/members/ThanquolTheGreatest
https://www.byond.com/members/Lady%20Rena
https://www.byond.com/members/Arnu

>>848035
>hot russians girls are ....le bad

Thoughts on swarmers? TG coders removed them for being unfun. Ironic.

Damn... is it even worth it for a nigga to get back into ss13? Is there any server thats semi alive and will give me a good experience?

>>813425
>ruin shit with dumbfuck rules
Many such cases. What's worse, they really think one'd spam nigger 24/7 if it was allowed, absolute goldfish memory with these """""""people"""""".

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>>846840
>>846773

People do it all the time, it always fails spectacularly. Latest big example, Aether.

>>852137
what happened to aether
i don't really give a shit about TG code but i saw it had a lot of players and then it suddenly disappeared

>>852248
I'd lie if I said I'm super in the know about it. It started off well, with some dozen or more codermen and strong pop early on, but as it usually goes, it failed to caught on besides first few weeks, disputes arose as to how much to police people going apeshit, contributors fell behind on the schedule and failed to deliver some huge features that'd differentiate it, pop died, creators got demotivated and it's gone.
Proves two things imho:
> Almost all new servers fail to tough it out in the long term, and think first few days of highpop throwing tiself at hot new thing will last, which it never does.
> It's impossible to build community off vocal "the grass was greener, wish we could go back to good ol' days of yore" minorty, cause when it comes to playing the game handful actually will bother, and of these most will exercise their right to behave like niggers to the extreme.
Actually, make it three things:
>This game is abandoned by God, and it's not worthwhile at all to pour your heart into, since pretty much entire community is bunch of niggerfaggots. Only way to stay sane is if you're doing it for yourself first and foremost and got something really original, but even then it's 1 in 1000 chance and too much headache.
Someone just pull the plug on it. And Tomahawk SS14 too, for a good measure.

>>852271
ouch that reminds me of /vm/station a bit

>>845495
Wouldn't that really nerf some antags like the Space Dragon?

>>813712
This. Coder powertrip is a thing there as well, but the new crop of admins who have bo clue avout historical admin decisions and insist they know better than players who've been playing for 3x as long as they have makes for an awful experience in sudden admin decision changes with no warning. Not to mention the playerbase has gone to shit, likely due to those shitmins, from powergaming validhunting secmains killing half the crew for no reason and getting off scottfree because they're admin friends, to memenames everywhere that are no longer killable based on new enforcement rules, to shitters who try to get anyone who beat them in self defense banned (and typically get their ways) or ghost as soon as they're arrested...
More like reddit than /vg/ really.

>>834015
im this fag and i deleted the server and the jank setup i was using broke, but if it gets repaired i'll post an ip, it'll hust be last commit vmstation, with minimal moderation, besides trannycide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyp19oOCAjA

>>855641
Is the server NA or EU?

>>856643
I think the VPS region is NA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SS13 is unfixable
Even the remales are just polishing an already broken project
The community has been taken over by trannies
Unironically the only hope is a spiritual sequel that appeals to zoomers that grew up playing rimworld and amogus

>>857336
>Unironically the only hope is a spiritual sequel that appeals to zoomers that grew up playing rimworld and amogus
but anon, that's what amogus was, the entire game is an extremely watered down and simplified traitor round

>>857985
It's really too simplified to be called alike to SS13. In SS13 you deal with traitors with various tools at your and the traitor's disposal, along with the traitor having extra tools. Amogus has the Mafia lynch mechanic for the crew and a one click kill for the impostor. It's so simplified that it's closer to Mafia than SS13 gameplay wise.
There's also the issue that SS13 has no official way to win for the crew, along with traitors not really playing to win but just playing to have fun. SS13 is probably more of a MUD than a social deduction game.

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>>813425
Yeah FUCK Space Station 13 now. If you really want something to replace it, wait for Project Negroid. It's inspired by Space Station 13 and Rimworld but it's anti-woke 1000%. It won't be nearly as complicated because of the amount of initial dev time that would take to launch it, but it will be quite deep by the standards of an "average" gamer.

Intended to one day be as deep as Rimworld but that would be long after launch as years of dev time add up.

>>844365
>oranges is a sex pest
ive been away from the community for ages after getting burned by shitty updates one too many times
did this actually happen? it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest but id at least like confirmation. who is even the tg headmin now? clearly they arent doing anything different at least in terms of running the place

>>851867
Maybe it's just gay Yog players, but they've always been a nonthreat, even when they eat the ORM or chew up a lathe (the shuttle is called and everyone just leaves lol). People pile on them harder than Kudzu

>>861927
thread in question: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32866
He was just banned from their discord, he's still a maintainer though. There are always 3 TG headmins, and they do elections twice a year, there will be one this month. Maybe you meant headcoder? TG is autistic about keeping the coders and admins separate, so it's an entirely different hierarchy. Oranges wasn't the headcoder for a while, now it's the guy who removed nanites.

>>846773
I blame the fact that nobody wants to come to term with the realities surrounding small communities. Most players push for their server to instantly be a thriving mainstay, so when only a dozen people show up, there's this mad rush to pimp the server as much as possible, and people try to play every day to keep things populated/because that how's you can play on popular servers. Then by the time people try to salvage things with scheduled sessions, you're down to the last 2-4 people, who have played on that lowpop relentlessly until they're too bored to continue. So now, there's this negative perception surrounding trying to run a server, and something like playing once or twice a week is viewed with a reverse survivorship bias.

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>>839928
>>841082
>>846773
>>855641
>>856891

i finally get to deliver, i had too many issues with the VPS anyways, i present last commit vmstation, OCs DENIED

byond://lith.nullbastion.net:1337

>>816418
There are limits I suppose. It's a roleplaying game, it only works if everyone is on board. Yes, chaos is good but if someone is so far out that they're not playing the game, that's when the administration should come in.

>>862873
also dunno if the interest is there still since im so late, if it isnt i'll probably go host something else, requests welcome

I miss Hippie. I miss Merchant.I miss this game.

>>835289
The only time it ever had a playable pop was for the /vm/ event thread. They were adding changes and stuff, but nothing substantial enough to make it interesting to play. /vm/ is just too small to split off an SS13 server especially when /vg/ was advertising it's server at the time. Every round was either "Murderbone antag picking off the 5 isolated crew members" or "Autist trying to do some engineering autist project" you see in every low pop server.

>>857336
>SS13 is unfixable
Lifeweb pretty much fixed all the flaws with SS13. By doing 1 fucking thing. They designed the game around not having jannies.

>>863569
>They designed the game around not having jannies
lololololol

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>>863582
Sec in Lifeweb basically does the job of the jannies. If sec is abusive oppressive assholes it's part of the game. The church also is a balance of power against sec to keep them in check, ontop of the players just revolting. There's also mechanics to push players to align with each other like bloodlines, and a fuckton more pushing them towards conflict even if they aren't antags. You can basically start fights with people at a whim, but they'll have people backing them up. At this point why do you even need jannies?

In SS13 only the antags get a free pass to shit things up, which is why the game is shit 80% of the time.

>>863603
If you think jannies don't ban people mid-round, you've got another thing coming lil bro. I've seen a fucking COUNT get banned mid-round and ruin the entire gamemode.
>You can basically start fights with people at a whim
Outright lie lol, donosed by clique and banned by next party.

>>863626
As opposed to every other ss13 server where the sec isn't allowed to do their job unless the antag is confirmed and jannies bwoink multiple times a round.

>>858632
You're thinking of something like I'm Not a Monster (the MP mode which is a DLC now but was originally the main mode). That's the closest I can think to an existing middle point between amogus and SS13. Though it still leans more toward simplicity than the insane convolution of SS13.
Anyway I think the right way to "clone" SS13 would be to start with a simple base and then expanding it. That's how SS13 also started. Make a simple game that is already fun in its own right and slowly add content and features. This is even more important if you're making a commercial MP game where you can't rely on human moderators. Every new feature would have to be designed and vetted with that in mind. Too many RP-relying features that just wouldn't work if you ported them directly from SS13.

>>863669
>sec isn't allowed to do their job
maybe if you stopped playing on furry servers

>>864081
>Jannies only breathe down sec's neck on furry servers
lmao. CEV-Eris is the only one I can think of where Sec can murder people at their own discretion, and it's basically lifeweb-lite. The closest next is /vg/ only if the discord troon that's immune to banning is playing warden.

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>>834015
the last post i'll have on this thread, i just found this image i saved from vm, good times

>>865870
Ah, the cargo tesla. One of the final signs of a dying server.

>>844265
Anonimity breaks the cycle of attention whoring and powertripping and instant gratification, plus even the most gone r9k incels are naturally more rational and disciplined than these hollow people

>>844265
>Except for the part about vetting and gatekeeping
Are you joking? Anything that spins off 4chan gets gatekept to death. Last time I was on this board this thread was dominated by retards arguing over whether or not to gatekeep the server with 3 players. All 4chan projects that survive do because they get sick of the gatekeeping autism and cut ties. Then it's not a 4chan thing anymore. It's self fulfilling prophecy.

>>865967
You literally can't gatekeep 4chan, retard.
That's why you're here.

>>866345
>Anything that spins off 4chan gets gatekept to death

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>>862721
jesus christ how far up your own e-ass do you even have to BE to have fucking ELECTIONS for maintainers of a VIDEO GAME SERVER

>>867499
Anon, it's super important because everything must be taken seriously. It's the world of adults after all, right? You gotta follow the rules to the letter and can't just do things because they're fun even in video games.

Exploiting bugs to create interesting situations? Ban the player and patch the bugs.
Unbalanced items that can't be easily countered? Everything must be balanced like an e-sport.
Praying to admins for something fun to happen because you're bored that 90% of antags do their objective stealthily now? Let's turn you into a bread, that's fun and interesting, right!
Some extremely rare situation happens and the admins that only follow the rules don't know how to solve it? Let's create more rules so that it never happens again.
You don't like how someone acts? Appeal to the authorities to police their actions. Or ever worse, become the authority and ruin their fun.
Man the world of adults is such a great example to emulate for how to handle vidya. Endless power struggles and never ending grudges that perpetuate each other while more and more regulations are written for a select few to be pleased with themselves.

I am pissed anon. Where's the childlike fun I once could have, not having to bother with this dumb shit.

Honestly, there's no reason not to be playing SS14 right now. I hate trannies, but it's still worth the upgrade.

>>867549
SS14 is complete dogshit. All the jobs are gridlocked by eachother and you spend most of the time walking around asking the person gridlocking you to do their job. I would rather play Fulpstation than that piece of dog ass.

>>867549
Only a nutcase would unironically play on TGshit code.

>>834015
i was the host and guy who dev'd for VM and hosted it. some guy on discord just messaged me bout this and it's sad to hear your host of the servers down. if anything i can give you the remnants of the server(if i still have it somewhere).

the biggest issue with that server was getting the dependencies to run the server and the database due to how outdated the database was. it required a TON of work to figure that out and to port the database to more modern systems. honestly, if it weren't for that fucking database i probably would have never abandoned the project.

i'd love to work on the game again but this game is by far the most addicting jewish bread and circus for me that i cannot even play a single game otherwise i'd be hooked.

>>867679
samefag, inb4 redditspacing, didn't realize i was using it
>>843685
i didn't say it in the previous post but i would straight up host it just for the sake of seeing the server back up, regardless of whether or not i play the game anymore. hosting this game isn't that expensive at all as long as you're not a complete retard

>>867679
i re up'd it, and like 5 people connected total for a combined playtime of less than an hour, im good, but i am still up for any projects, i'm considering an astroneer thread, offered to host barotrauma, and i worked with another guy on ETQW

>>867692
with box86 (assuming the maintainers dont break the dynarec) you can even host on a free arm instance on oracle cloud free tier or insert provider here, assuming you can get one since low availability, thats what took me so long to host before giving up and just hosting it locally while i felt there was interest/a point

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>>867546
>make one of those clown monsters that spawn banana peels around them
>put on a blue-space body bag and carry it around
>I am now a clown with literally banana-synthesis powers
>spawn so many peels on the hallways when heads force me to clean it under the threat of death I nearly crashed the server when turning on the trash compactor
>leave and get back to the server a week later and it doesn't work anymore
I knew I was done with TG right there, granted I came back from some time until I got banned for removing gay-pride floor tiles on cargo as a QM and telling the crew I would give rewards for every rainbow tile removed on the station.

I was so proud of the clown thing too, crazy how I will never experience that again.

>>867745
they banned you over fucking what? what kind of degnerate tranny shit, purely an IC issue

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>>867759
yeah, it was like the last day of fag month or something, I think the trannyjanny was playing the Warden because he instantly killed me when he understood what I was doing and nobody answered my admin reports, I was banned shortly after.

I understand why they did it tho, being a tranny is bad enough imagine coming to the only thing you have and this guy is taking a huge shit on it lmao, I was more pissed off I got killed for no good reason.

>>867765
if the demand was there (ref. im this fag >>867696) i'd really host a non tranny srv for vm

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I've got free time and can code features n' shit if people wanna try to get vmstation going again, even if it's just to build up the codebase first. It's been a long time and I'd have to relearn the tools, but I was at least familiar with the language and mapping tools before shit went down.

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>>867782
>if the demand was there
It's there but the biggest thing I realized is that all these servers that try to spin up an untrooned version of the game are almost always veterans who just go back to do their old gimmicks for nastolgia before getting bored again and leaving after a week. Even if you went across the net and tried to dig up the 100s of people sick of troon13 they would all drop off after a bit. Maybe serious heavy duty coding changes would keep the server interesting, but these servers are always 2-3 coders adding something they want specifically that no one else cares about and don't really change anything at all. When the server reaches a point where the only players left are MoMMI's doing engineering autism contraptions it's basically dead. I genuinely have no idea what could be changed about the game to stop having it fall into this same cycle.

>>867896
I've been prototyping a server for like 3 years that's completely new but still has the classic SS13 feel.
No, it's not TG but a few merge reverts, I've been waiting for a bit to show people it

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>>867896
There is demand, but all the good people have already been scattered to the winds for years. Do you have any idea how many oldfags I meet on the reg that reminisce about the game, but would never even contemplate re-opening BYOND? You're getting the freshest shitter dregs that constantly search for another place to be instead of the reasonable people that have already dismissed the game as a lost cause.
It'd take both long-term commitment and some kind of gimmick to get something going. I'm half tempted to dig out the quarter-finished de-shittered /vg/code I have laying around somewhere, but even that would take a colossal amount of effort to get decent.
This game really is a mind virus.

>>867926
I don't think even years upon years of merge reverts would make TG tolerable at this point. The only codebases worth modifying off the top of my head are some of the randycode offshoots, /vg/ and maybe the Goon leak. Baycode has been the least scathed by troonification, ironically.

>>868035
The problems is the fact that these servers are trying to appeal to "le old players!" instead of people who just actually want a good experience.

>>868142
How do you appeal to those people?

>>868144
Do it like DukeOfOok did: appeal to the players who don't play much but watch videos and so make watchable and entertaining videos. It worked very well for the Russian audience which grew enormously after a few Russian streamers and youtubers made videos about the game, now there are always 3 or so Russian paradise servers with 100 pop on top of the hub.
It may not be the best solution but it's one solution that works.

>>868183
that sounds terrible, gate keeping be damned, i rather appeal to "le old players", or at least the /vm/ ss13 playerbase how ever small it is, within bare minimum to run a shift even only at peak hours

>>868142
define "good experience", vague to be meaningless

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>>868142
The only change /vm/station had was the ministation map from hippie to accommodate the low player count and you still had retards complaining about it even when the server was only 3 players. I think there were other changes proposed but you had faggots in the thread, who probably didn't even play the server, saying they would leave if they were added. At the same time you had guys that wanted to gatekeep the dead server.

How can you not see these people as anything but hopeless?

>>868032
If it were me I would just jump over to SS14 and do the rehaul over there. Byond isn't getting any new blood in and if you're going through all that effort anyways you might as well do it on a platform that isn't totally doomed. You can untroon all the code at least as far as I know. I think most of the faggots will leave as soon as they see the gender neutral option removed and if not they'll leave as soon as someone hurls a bunch of slurs at them.

>It'd take both long-term commitment and some kind of gimmick to get something going.
>but even that would take a colossal amount of effort to get decent.
There's a reason why troons are the only ones who are willing to dedicate their life to this shit.

>>868267
Not him but: Unpredictable rounds, shit actually happening, emergent gameplay, stuff actually being added to the codebase.

I rode /vm/station from the peak down to when it was just me and 3 other players hoping it would get better at some point, but overall it was a pretty mediocre experience. Rounds were either guys doing autism shit on their own or the antag running from department to department 1-shotting everyone.

>>868433
>or the antag running from department to department 1-shotting everyone.
What sucks is that half the time, people were getting one shot because they were expecting the other players to at least try to do something interesting, since it's not like going for the wintext with only 6 people on station would be fun in the slightest. One time that still gets my bum in a knot is when some nig rolled Mime and got antag, and he didn't try to do anything with either. He just ran into Medbay shouting his head off and killing people. I remember a few good shifts, but it does say a lot that the absolute peak was only achieved when the custom shuttle script borked out trying to summon an asteroid, and the entire crew banded together to try to find some way to ritualistically kill themselves to escape the station.

>>868495
I don't even know what a server could do to solve it other than get such a high player count the antag couldn't just run around picking people off. I played a server that had a rule were antags couldn't kill people who weren't targets or in their way, but honestly, that was the most boring server I have ever played in my life.

>>868527
>I played a server that had a rule were antags couldn't kill people who weren't targets or in their way
That sounds like half the servers currently on the hub. RPfags have destroyed this game by forcing ever increasing rules.

>>868527
Nothing to be done about it. Better minds than you and I have been trying to deal with murderhobos and "main characters" in improv/RP circles for decades, and it's something that can't really be forced on any group. It's just something that you get or you don't, and any attempt to force it on players who don't just ruins it for the players who do, like in your example.

>>868562
On Lifeweb the inquisitor is basically the detective on steroids and the guards are no slouch either. Also the antagonists usually gained power as the round progressed. So right away the couldn't start the round off running around 1-shotting people. Even some antags, like the vampire, are better off spiking someone's drink with their blood to make a ghoul rather than killing them outright. Even in a regular SS13 server murderboners would eventually get stopped by someone and if not the crew could just fuck off into deep space or wall off their dept.

The problem is the server had less than 10 players and most of them had absolutely no way to fight back at all..

>>868562
Give the crew easy access to guns since there is no sec.
Make it easy to get back in the game like with frequent mid-rounds or ghost roles.
Make the game less about PVP like voidcrew because there are only 5 players.

have none of you heard of space station 14?? its amazing.

have none of you heard of space station 14?? its amazing.

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>>867926
Here's some pics, almost forgot.
Pretty unfinished, but oh well.

>>868433
>I rode /vm/station from the peak down to when it was just me and 3 other players hoping it would get better at some point, but overall it was a pretty mediocre experience. Rounds were either guys doing autism shit on their own or the antag running from department to department 1-shotting everyone.
honestly that mediocre experience was worth not playing on the other shit servers

>>868655
I walked away feeling like I wasted my time.

>>868764
what do you think playing video games is retard?

>>868625
wich one?

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>>813425
(2003-2007) = Good, but still finding its identity
(2007-2009) = Golden age
(2010-2014) = Still consistently good, but cracks showing
(2015-2021) = Noticeable decline
(2021-Present) = Collapse
I have never played this game.

>>868433
If you want to hop over to SS14, be my guest, but I know being an adversarial downstream is a lost battle. SS14 is shit change after shit change, and you will spend all your time reverting those changes, as well as all future changes that depend on those, and vice versa. It takes an autistic soul to do that, yet it will never be worth it as long as the upstream remains fagged up.

>>868652
If you're going to show off spritework, maybe don't stretch and squeeze the shit out of it. I also don't think almost anyone cares about the sprites for as long as it doesn't look like utter trash – like TG, which could be instantly improved sevenfold just by gutting the shitty ambient occlusion shit and going back to old windows.

>>868984
the tranny devs that run SS14 will also sabotage your server
it's something people don't consider because there probably is no big un-faggified English SS14 server yet but it WILL happen

>>869091
that's because there are no english SS14 servers
have you looked at the SS14 server listing, at all? there's like 50 goddamn russian servers and maybe 3 anglo

>>869153
That's why I said I assumed there weren't any YET.
eventually when a le based English SS14 gets big the SS14 lead devs will try to take it down

>>868570
But that's the crux of it: solutions that work for high pop don't work with the way lowpop is. The only real solution is for antags to actually want to do something instead of being just giant puds. The dynamic between them and the crew is just fundamentally different than when there is more players, so people picking those roles have to account for that. Most murderbones would still go for it, and if they do, well then fuck, because now the antag's knocked out of the shift and the X-factor that shakes things up is gone.
>>868574
The first two is just playing more effectively at a losing game. Access to guns won't change the fact that ambushing someone and killing them is super easy to do, and having to buy back in with mid-rounds/ghost roles just kills the pace of the game. Those roles work better when you're coming back to participate in/shake up what the crew is currently doing, and the crew aint doin shit if half of them are wiped out after just a few kills.

The third just goes back to the very gay idea of having to put bumpers on and strip back parts of the game, as it's just conceding to the fact that too many players are gay to actually try to play interestingly during the round.

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>>869582
>The first two is just playing more effectively at a losing game. Access to guns won't change the fact that ambushing someone and killing them is super easy to do, and having to buy back in with mid-rounds/ghost roles just kills the pace of the game. Those roles work better when you're coming back to participate in/shake up what the crew is currently doing, and the crew aint doin shit if half of them are wiped out after just a few kills.
I know that's bullshit because TTT, a very similar game to SS13, antags are on even footing except the traitor gets a few items to get out of dicey situations or pick off the 1 annoying person. The antags scale with the player count and it's just as playable with 4 players and it also has the ambush problem. Ambushing is really the only way the traitors can even win in that game. SS13 antags are OP as fuck because it's 1v50. Just do away with sec and make it so any crew member can be their own sec. Right now if a guy wanders into your department with a gun you have NOTHING to fight back with.

>>868984
Why the fuck would you even want the upstream? Just grab it for the engine not being byond, the fact it gets new players and go hog-wild with the code. I don't think SS14 forces you to pull their latest changes because it's designed to be a replacement for byond, and there's an mod for it that just runs byond code.
No fucking wonder your guys servers die.

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>>870014
>because TTT, a very similar game to SS13

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>>870014
Then why haven't you grabbed the "engine", which is also pozzed? And redone all the assets from the ground up the way you want them? And still be a downstream of the engine? I sure hear a lot of "I don't thinks" and "I thinks" for someone with so much conviction in an engine that runs on and interprets from fucking C#, not DMScript.

>>870014
And in case you think there's something to be had with https://github.com/OpenDreamProject/OpenDream it's not a mod. It's made by the same TG shitters.

>>870021
>My traitor centered game has nothing to do with the other traitor centered game
Ok. Pretend SS13 isn't driven 90% by traitors or self-antags.

>>870165
>>870169
>for someone with so much conviction in an engine that runs on and interprets from fucking C#, not DMScript.
This reads like something written by a Dunning-Kruger shitcoder.
>it's not a mod
It runs on their engine you dipshit. Call it whatever you want but it's reusing the SS14 engine the same way a custom server would. It's basically a custom server that interprets DMscript.

>>870165 >>870169
Is this mald? These posts gives me mald vibes.

>SS14
I mean, it's not SS13. It's a remake, and it will have the same problem all remakes do: it lacks the large amount of random things SS13 has, which make it what it is.
Maybe something cool can be made with OpenDream, but it seems early in development from the README. And personally, I don't like C# and don't think it's a good language for anything really. It's just a slightly better Java on a slightly worse platform.

Unitystation, then? SS14 has too many russian players and the few english servers are already troon infested. So anyone has any recent news about unitystation?