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What went wrong?
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>>209238
people forgot how much of a grind and how bad classic wow really was. That and attention spans got lower.
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>>209250
>how much of a grind
Vanilla wasnt even horribly grindey.

Top Kek casual
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>>209238
It's not 2005 anymore and everything is datamined and a meta is formed before the content is even out. In this case everyone knew the optimal strategy to clear everything as quickly as possible (mage spam). Basically people forgot to have fun.

But Classic WoW was still a success and the people who wanted to have fun achieved that so it's whatever.
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>>209251
It actually was that grindy.
>>
There are probably a lot of legitimate complaints but my main one is world buff autism. Even back in the day the bleeding edge world first pushing guilds did not bother collecting a bunch of world buffs and logging their character out in front of the raid entrance for a week. Given that this content is easier than ever before and precisely no one gives a fuck about speedrunning raids it's a uniquely unfun addition to the meta with no real benefit.
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>>209238
Is running its course a wrong thing? I played it, had a ton of fun, and it kept me subbed all the way to SL which I'm now playing, yet I still plan to finish leveling that warlock alt at some point. And if TBC is confirmed I'll spend at least a month poopsocking that.
Definitely flawed though, like >>209395 says. Really wish they went with #somechanges. Maybe they'll do that in the future. But despite everything it was worth it multiple times over for me, one of them being the chance to see the AQ gate opening event properly. Even if it's a pretty barebones scripted sequence that goes on for hours the resulting wpvp was fantastic - that's the kind of shit that should be in warmode if they can ever unfuck phasing and proc-related lag.
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>>209238
It's not 2005 anymore. WoW was groundbreaking at the time but it isn't anymore. I enjoyed it a lot for the first month though then people started minmaxing and tryharding and the late 2010s culture (twitch, discord etc.) leaked into it and it became annoying to play.
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>>209568
To enjoy Classic you basically had to disconnect yourself from the rest of the internet like people in 2005 were and discover the game on your own. But everyone just rolled on the highest pop server and watched hundreds of videos explaining every crack of the game and the best flowchart to follow to be the strongest the fastest prior to the launch.
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>>209238
bots and you cant go to dungeons unless you are a mage
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>>209238

bots, inflation, clever game mechanics
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>>209571
based schizo
people used allakhazham and thottbot back then
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>>209611
If you think that stuff was as prominent as it is now you are completely wrong. Especially within the casual fanbase.
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>>209621
>no true scotsman
>moving goalposts
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>>209659
>didn't play back then
>thinks he knows what he's talking about
Just stop replying to me please.
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>>209621
There was some strategies that straight up nobody was doing back then. Level boosting as it exists today, where one mage does insane shit like farm all of maraudon in one pull is totally bonkers and would definitely get the hotfix if #nochanges weren't such a thing.
I can't talk shit though, I did the ZF GY strategy to level my mage from 42-54 and had a great time lol
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>>209660
you were still swimming in your dad's ballsack when I was playing this game
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>>209238
u can play most of the multiplayer games and balance it with your personal life, goals, relationships etc. but in wow.. oh man this game absorbs every single bit of u into this virtual world and all the different things u can do...maybe most people that have been playin it since 2010s just grew up and want to have a productive life
>>
Turns out people didn't actually miss classic, they missed 2004-ish internet culture
Even now everything is so meta'd out and there's so many tryhards for a game that's really not that hard that it sucks the fun out of it
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>>209380
Name 1 mandatory grind in Vanilla WoW
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>>209672
based shitty fingernails anon
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>>209672
Wow dude, you bought some disks? Stop the presses man stop the presses.
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>>209238
Modern mmo-player culture combined with everyone knowing it had a finite lifespan. Basically as soon as AQ came out people were already acting like vanilla was over and were preparing for TBC.
>>
Most of the complaints laying blame at the core game design fall apart when you ask "then why did vanilla survive for years upon years on the private scene while increasing population?"
It's not a problem of the game being solved, it was solved 5 years ago too.
It's not because it was too grindy, there were times when private servers were grindier and no one cared.
World buffs weren't the problem either, sure I agree it sucks, but that didn't keep the ball from rolling.
Tryhard minmax culture was at the highest point at the time on private servers too and yet new blood kept streaming in.
The argument about nostalgia for by-gone-era culture also doesn't make sense when it kept gaining popularity right up until Blizzard came along and fucked the game.

The most important advantage that the private server community enjoyed, but Blizzard failed to recognize: the numbers were completely off, making the game a lot harder than it used to be, which works perfectly when you consider how much better people are now in general at vidya.
Also, the difference in difficulty meant that boosting as it is now practiced large scale on live servers was impossible. The broader implication of this refusal to abandon "no changes" is that the world is practically dead because every zoomer just runs to the local mage for their roundabout way of buying an xp potion, instead of being forced to form groups and interact with other people organically.
Another big difference was that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about botting, and they refuse to implement even basic anti-cheat measures, meaning a bunch of basement dwellers running toaster servers were doing a better job preventing botting and fucking the economy than Blizz does today. To be fair, private servers had corrupt GMs that sold accounts, but compared to what we have now on live, it's the lesser of two evils, by miles.
TBC will not save this wreck of a mismanaged nightmare.
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>>209251
I played vanilla at launch and it took me about a year to get to max level

That's not to say it's bad, but for employed people with IRL friends or commitments it was pretty grindy
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Bosses die too quickly.
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>>209238
people realized WoW was never not a tedious bugman game that exists to consume your time and nothing else.
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>>209672
LOL those dainty girl hands, I could kill you in one strike.
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Any good vanilla private servers?
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I really wish they did #somechanges like a wild balance pass just to render all the old knowledge crap and make people actually have to explore their options and discover things again.
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>>213972
>make people actually have to explore their options and discover things again.
This is precisely why I'm turned off FFXIV/ESO/WoW. I just want something fucking new. I want to be able to discover strong combinations and be rewarded for it. I'm sick of having my gameplay dictated to me via tutorial videos that guilds force down your throat.
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>>209672
>Not even the collector's edition discs
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You will never go home because that internet doesn't exist anymore. Now everything is data mined and min maxed by autismos and the people who slavishly adhere to what they say. Wow is a solved game, and not a very difficult solved game at that. What they should really do is take the base of classic, hire actually talented designers and start developing new content like OSRS. That being said it will never happen.
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>>209238
My main complain is layer abuse ruining the economy, some people have 10 gazillion gold and only raidlog
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>>209250
it took me less than a month to get to max level

and even then the fun is the leveling. spoonfed whore like you is what ruined the mmo genre unironically
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>>209238
Mages being absolutely OP. It completely warped the game around them and broke so many systems just by them existing.
>>
Classic WoW has almost nothing to appeal to the competitive mindset of todays gamers so it wasn't really gonna retain players for long.

It doesn't include any way to facilitate competitive PvP even if it's more balanced than people remember. Even in the open world you are probably on an unbalanced server and the goal is in the end to farm other players and avoid competition.
And if you are into PvE the simple IWinButton is 'Logout' which allows you to keep worldbuffs
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>>210442
The numbers being off just made the grind for consumes and gear more time consuming on Pservers, 20 year old NPCs aren't ever gonna be hard for any other reason and they were missing spells and AI behaviours were they were just large auto attacking meatchunks.
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>>216031
How? why? Are they OP in PvP? For PvE I would say hunters break a whole lot more being able to solo so many bosses in 5man instances.
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>>209238
The #NoChanges ruined it
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>>218311
The grind also made leveling take significantly longer, leading to a full overworld. The sheer number of players squeezed onto Nostalrius gave the game an amazingly alive feeling, and the prolonged leveling phase meant there was only a small 2-3 hour window where you had to wait a little bit to form dungeon groups. The entire rest of the day you could just whisper a few people and be ready to go within 5-10 minutes, if not less.
This was partly due to being an international server with burgers, europoors and yellowskins rotating active times.
Server cap should have been raised to at least 8k on classic (Nost had up to 15k online at one point), and spawns should have been made dynamic.
The AI programming was worse in the early stages, but improved dramatically once popularity started picking up. Nowadays, it's basically the same, and in some respects, better. The pathing on the new classic client for example was completely different from vanilla, so even private servers were closer to nochanges in that respect until Blizz was made aware of the differences and fixed them at a later point.
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>>218718
The slow leveling speed was mostlly because of the world being overcrowded and waitint in line for every quest and mob spawn.

Nostalrius at least did get a some things right, i.e the overcrowded server solved the problem of not being able to find raids, instance groups and PvP which is a huge benefit, especially when most people level through instances anyway.
Ranking gear wasn't 1.11 version but the lower item level from 1.6 which deincenticized ranking and the wintrading and farming of people at a disadvantage which is very intrusive on people trying to have fun in PvP.
The lag on inputs was less frustrating and unpredictable compared to the spell batching system.
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>>213578

Hyjal releases on the 13th, don't know how the pop will be though.
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>>209238
Nothing. I played for 3 months and got more than my money's worth.
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>>218323
No, rogues are the OP ones in PvP. Mages are just overpowered for farming since they're so good at AoE.
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>>209238
vanilla and tbc are the best. Blizzard just didnt Moderate classic at ALL, and changed everything that made classic unique, the pvp was completely cross server instead of comfy server-only, and the economy was obliterated by llayering and BOTTING, i have never seen this many bots on an mmo server. even the auction house was botted, not to mention every single node of anything. fuck blizzard and this shit attempt at making more people join retail.
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>>210846
I remember spending more than a week in thousand needles, just before I quit at the time.
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>>220771
I actually really like classic PvP because every class has a distinct situational advantage. Rogues are indeed crazy but that is only if they get the opening by attacking first, if you can catch a Rogue out of stealth they are very easy even with a gear and level advantage. The best for /duel is actually Warlock though it is mostly because they can make a whole lot of preparations with choosing a pet and their conjured stones and because you get feared out of the duel arena. It's very easy to camp a Warlock though when he spawns without all of it.





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