>>1032659
Pirates of the Burning Sea if youre into that sort of thing

>>1032659
not really, i am DLing LOTRO now. but the graphics ....

>>1032659
Try OSRS leave the WoW-clones behind. Other than that, New World? You already listed most of the active WoWclones. But if you don't like ESO you probably won't like it.

>>1032659
try uo unchained.
Seifer is pretty cool guy, eh programs things and isn't afraid of anything.
https://www.play-uo.com/

Albion seems like the closest to what you are looking for. You might enjoy Vrising. I'm not sure how Fractured is doing or if Ashes of Creation will ever release. Maybe wait for Corepunk or the Riot MMO.

>>1032659
Seriously, why hasn't valve made an MMO?

>>1033017
i see on the website "play for free" but what exactly does that mean? there's no way all of it is 100% free

>>1033017
there is literally ZERO action in EVE. its an excel simulator. if it played like the space fights in SWG id LOVE it,

>>1033017
>ban you for no-no words
Yes it does. Ive been warned a few times by GMs

>>1032659
honestly, if albion had 1) more structure and direction, even for the PVP, and 2) a more "over the shoulder" camera angle, instead of full isometric elevation, i might be heaven.

nonetheless OP here, and im trying tanks in both LOTRO and GW2 over the next week so we will see. Destiny 2 as well. likeing this

>>1033104
i'm de-recommending gw2 to you. you'll probably have fun on a first playthrough through the story and all (even though it's written like shit) but the rest of the game is unbelievably tedious and grindy. play as much as you can without spending money on it, maybe spend money on the expansions themselves, leave the rest

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>>1033063
its 100% for free
all the subscription gets you is tech2/tech3 ships (ie: more specialized hulls), capital ships, mining ships and lock bots out of some shit content no-one with a brain still does anyway
also you can buy the sub with in-game money so once you're established the sub is free anyway

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>>1033080
>sweatiest highest APM highest skill ceiling highest stakes PVP on the video game market
>zero action
lol ok go back to Approach F1 fucking shitter
like half of Eve's playerbase are old Ultima Online etc MMO vets who have nothing else left to play that still gives them PVP shakes that keep them awake until next Tuesday

>>1032987
Probablty the same reason they haven't made any good games in the past decade.

Source Engine isn't built for MMO scale and would require them to develop essentially a whole new engine unless they got the retard route and make an ARPG with MMO dogshit tacked on, at which point I think Valve would have just made an ARPG.

Weird thing is, Gaben is known to be a WOWfag, you'd think that over the years of the game going to shit he would have considered making a next gen MMO at some point, but they can't even release HL3 and its been 15-20 years already

>>1033063
EVE has a premium account system.

As an "Alpha" Clone(free player) you're training queue is restricted to training mostly T1 combat stuff with some T2 modules, there are a lot of things you can't do (Tech 2/3, Cloaking, deploying structures, ect) but for the most part you can play the core game that is EVE (pew pew red triangles or other players), your restrictions are mostly economical, but thats to prevent a billion free account botfarms destroying the economy and ruining everything (even though chinks already do it)

Unlike most games with a free trial mode, Alphas are 100% playable at all times, even if you let your subscription lapse, you can still play as an alpha, just restricted to alpha skill restrictions, and EVE is balanced around the idea that its an MMO so a lot of t1 players can still overpower t2 and t3 players.

>>1033282
>APM
Listen, EVE's got a very complex combat system, but its not a gook clicker, the server tickrate is fucking 1 per second, its all about the positioning, transversal, align times, bookmark mastery, and knowing when to take a fight and when to bait them into flying something you can kill.

There's no current mmo released in the west.
I'm waiting for either odin or hit 2 to come but they aren't coming to the west.

Albion is 90% the same game as Eve +actual gameplay

>>1033080
Try Star Trek Online then, it has pretty nice space combat. Cryptics are faggots though, but not as much of a faggots as in their other games surprisingly enough.

>>1032659

Vscape time capsule inhabited by asylum patients

>>981255

>>1032659
>convince me to play RTS
>but im too lazy to control more than my own prick
>and i need to see people doing work so i can micromanage and criticize them
maybe its a good thing you stopped playing games

>>1033486
the one game that comes to mind for you is genshin impact, unironically and unsarcastically check it out

>>1032659
Oldschool Runescape

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>>1032659
>no formal roles.

>>1032659
There's really not much out there in terms of MMORPG choices. Just the way things are now a days. There's been plenty of threads on why this is.

>Holy Trinity
There's not a lot of super active MMORPGs that have this and are new

>Oldies
You've got all the ones you see mentioned a ton of times before.Lotro, DDO, etc. They have small but active populations. You wont see anything close to WoW, FF14, or even Gw2 populations. But they're there

>New World
Probably the closest modern one? Its very actiony combat. Slightly like a souls like game but not really? Hard to describe. But PvE does have healer and tank roles. Healing is quite weird if you're looking for something like WoW. There's skillshots and reliance on AoEs to be a good healer.Tanking is about managing agro, energy, and blocking status. I mainly play tanking/healing when I do play this game. For tanking the "meta" is greatsword or sword/shield as your main weapon. A flail and shield weapon is coming in October. Healing you've got this void gauntlet, "life staff", and the flail is supposed to have some support capabilities. There are some other weapons that have taunt capabilities. Like you can make a "dodge" tank, but I've never tried it.

>Gw2
This game does have roles mind you, but yeah they're not holy trinity roles. Pretty funny they designed the combat to be "not holy trinity". And another holy trinity just rose to take its place (just not tank/healer/dps). However in recent years they've put a lot of dev into allowing 'Full blown healers". There's even a single target healer now.

>ESO
Again this game does have roles. A lot of the content is fairly easy. Not till you get to vet dungeons/raids that you will see a much greater focus on needing roles. But you absolutely need to have a tank/healer/dps design.

Again there's not much out there. Only other ones I can think of are SWTOR maybe? Secret world? SWTOR is another smaller pop. Secret world is even smaller.

>>1032659
Is your heart really set on an mmo? There are plenty of deep multiplayer games out there that might scratch a similar itch. Something with account progression and numbers to go up?
PoE - Deep Rock - Tarkov - Rust - Payday 2

If you need something to hit the spot of social + progression you might have to get creative. Unless you're willing to play a very small game you might have to try new things.

You didnt mention FF14. Its a fine game.

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>>1034100

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>>1032987
Too risky. MMO players arent part of the casual crowd, the more hardcore crowd you aim at, the less whales you catch. Tbh im surprised PC gaming didnt die in 2007-2012 when mobile gaming became possible. The profit difference is absurd

>>1032659
>ESO
>no formal roles
Yes it has, go to the Group & Activity finder and select your role.
Classes are different from roles, and every class has 3 skill trees and skill morphs where each of them suits at a specific role.

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DOFUS Unity when it releases

>>1034174
>pvpfags still can't fathom that culling casuals for shits and giggles will lead exactly to that
Fucking wolves aren't stupid enough to slaughter the whole herd.

>>1034284
PVP is the ultimate end game, and a good MMO feeds into the PVP scene (not system, minigames are gay) which consumes resources from all levels of play and keeps the economy alive for newbros.

For example runescape items only have value based on how good it is in PVP or farming PVE to make money for PVP, gold is intrinsically worthless otherwise, same thing with EVE, if ships didn't blow up, Tritanium, the most abundant and easiest to access mineral in the game would be worthless.

Meanwhile you get shit that is pure PVE wank and those games are dead as fuck and no one gives a fuck that you killed the uber god super demon dragon deathlord god X because the weapon they drop is fucking worthless next patch and isn't useful in PVP if the game has PVP at all.

>>1034100
>Single player game with live service MMO jank tacked on
>"b-but the raids are good"
My brother in christ WOW style raids were outdated in 2004 when Monster Hunter got online play the same year, the only interesting spectacle about a raid is getting 20-50 bros together to kill an uber boss as a community, dodging groundfire with 8 people is the gayest shit ever

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>>1032738
LOTRO's graphics are fine and aside from the UI I'd even say it aged well. In exchange you get pic related (couple zones out of date)

>>1032659
Have you tried SWTOR? In my opinion, it's the best f2p. The entire base game (up to level 60) is free.
It's theme park but the whole thing is FULLY VOICE ACTED.

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>>1032659
Are you looking for something truly unique and willing to tolerate bad graphics and a very small community? -> Project Gorgon https://store.steampowered.com/app/342940/Project_Gorgon/
Are you looking for something unique but popular? -> Old School Runescape
Are you looking for Runescape's life skilling but on a super high budget and Dark Soulsy combat where if you don't pay attention you'll fucking die all the time? -> New World
Do you want horizontal progression where your time and money is respected? -> Guild Wars 2
Do you want the best depiction of Tolkien in a visual medium even if it means settling for 2007-2011 graphics? -> The Lord of the Rings Online
Do you want a really solid PvP MMO? -> Warhammer Return of Reckoning
Do you want a sandbox MMO? -> Ultima Online Renaissance/Outlands or Star Wars Galaxies
>can not recommend: World of Warcraft, FFXIV, The Elder Scrolls Online (due to lack of difficulty scaling in the open world content), Black Desert or ArcheAge
If you have any questions just ask.Anything else not on the list, just ask. I've played them all.
>>1034350
SWTOR is worth running through once or twice. It plays like a Bioware RPG. Arguably some of the best stuff they've ever done but I wouldn't go into it with the assumption that you're gonna stick around.

>>1034334
OP here, ended up downloading LOTRO and set up a guardian,
again. should have mentioned i played GW2, took ranger necro and guardian to lvl cap. game just got boring

at this point, im debating project 99 or EQ1/ anyone know the main differences here?

>>1034361
>on of Tolkien in a visual medium even if it means settlin
oh shit anon, op here, forgot about the return to warhammer servers!!! that might just fit the bill.

>>1034536
There's actually a RoR competitor in development that is basically taking the "classic+" approach which will have a lot more custom content and features. Much more heavy handed approach.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=T75Me0-I1dg
>>1034534
Guardian is cool but may I sway you into considering Warden? Ace of all trades but has the highest skill ceiling therefore the most potential for mediocrity. Best and most fun class mechanic.

>>1034534
Also forgot to respond to your Everquest question. Neither. Shards of Dalaya. EQ custom server. Nothing else like it.

Personally, I'm a fan of Aardwolf. I doubt it'll scratch the itch you're looking for though.

>>1034334
I kinda wanna get back into lotro i played when it first launched as a guardian I heard you have to pay for quests now is that true ?

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>>1034859
Quest packs are more like zone packs and most of them are given away to you by default up to level 110. 111-140 is paid but we're talking tens of thousands of quests and thousands of hours of content for free (everything up to and including Mordor).

After that, it's like $100 for everything remaining. Less during seasonal sales.

>>1034100
GREEN DPS
BLUE DPS
RED DPS

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>>1032659
>FFXI - No, its one theme park ride after another with no exploration. just run into party finder,
>FFXI
>party finder
If you're going to complain about a game, at least get its name right. FFXI doesn't have a party finder, that's FFXIV. And they're on opposite ends of the soi scale.

>>1034859
Most older areas have been made free, and lately they've had a free code every year that lets you get most of the areas that aren't the latest. The last two were in late September, so it won't be long now.
The only quests you have to pay for are some in retardedly extra areas, or in the newest content. I guess they feel that their best profit comes from raid fags and new content fags, and that's fine with me. They even opened up Helm's Deep content last year, that was notable for being the only Epic Quest stuff that f2p couldn't get.
Anyhow, if there's anything I hate most about lotro, it's the RPG system having 500 different stats, all of which can be raised with lotro points. And war horses.

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Play Uncharted Waters Online
Sailing MMO with emphasis on exploration and trading, which also happens to be oozing with SOUL and comfy music

>>1032659
project gorgon

swtor's fine, only mmo i can tolerate

>>1036569
based gorgon chad
linked it already but I'm glad I'm not the only one here playing this shit >>1034361

>>1036580
OP here again. thanks for suggestions all.
having downlaoded warframe, destiny 2, LOTRO, GW2(again), im now going to try EQ2, and RoR.

i cant fathom how ppl like gw2. i really cant. its so superficial and vapid. combat sucks too.

>>1032659
unfortunately DDO can't really be remade with a graphical overhaul because WotC would force whoever's making the relaunch into making a 5E game which basically kills what's so interesting about character building in DDO and character building is the main thing that's kept it going.

>>1032659
Maplestory I guess, you have support classes, damage, and tanks, 2d, lots of bosses and reboot server for easy reboot progression, has a world a meh story, but lots of quests to do, pretty easy brain dead kgrinder

>ESO

ESO sucks.

Whats the best or most populous server to play on for LOTRO?

>>1036870
For gw2, yeah the combat can be rough depending on how you play it. There's a lot of different builds that can play vastly different from one another. So its sorta a "make a build that you have fun with" game for me personally. Fuck the meta. Game isn't that hard anyways. I usually shift around between summoner necro, full healing reverent/specter, turret engineer, or tankish guardian.

>>1033282
>like half of Eve's playerbase are old Ultima Online etc MMO vets who have nothing else left to play that still gives them PVP shakes that keep them awake until next Tuesday

eves player base is care bear retard 40 year old redditors. about 0.1% of the population is the type you described, and they all stopped playing 5-6 years ago.


Time to go outside son, gaming is dead. Fortnite took over WoW as the pop culture king. MMOs were only good when people were retarded enough to not min max and enjoy the game. Now all the systems are laid bare and people have a better understanding of mechanics so it's almost impossible to design a fun mmo. Unless some great innovation comes around and brings in the masses again mmos have gone the way of RTS games.

>>1033282
also

>is literally in a reddit corp

you can't make this shit up folks.

>>1042200
There is a ton of legacy corperations/alliances from social media groups

Something Awful spawned Goonswarm
Reddit spawned Test Alliance

They both fucking suck ass and only win via numbers.

>>1042218
eve is a numbers game, in release-2008 you could win by being first in the system and killing everyone else on the lag fest as they enter, 2008-2010 you could win by bringing a more cohesive fleet doctrine, 2010-2014 you could win by having a a bigger super wing to offset numbers. The bigger groups caught up, got more organized etc and the elite pvpers lost the elite gaymer advantage.

hence my comment
>MMOs were only good when people were retarded enough to not min max and enjoy the game.

eve is just a hyperinflated min maxxed by every group fest now days. Just like every other MMO. The genre had its course, gameplay got so drilled down developers can't release a basic system and expect players to find any mystery in it anymore. WoW classic kinda proved that with like 90% of the playerbase raid logging after the first month or two.

>>1034316
>ultimate end game
>kill people who are either literally new or terrible

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>>1042339
Even if you make it a 100% 1:1 even fight this is still going to happen faggot.

Some people like their games to be more interesting than 1v1 fox only final destination no tiems.

Also
>person with better ping wins at counter strike because their headshot registers first

Just don't play games if you don't like games

>>1042412
1v1
Jebus Cross
No Tazar

>>1034316
World PvP in MMOs is neat for novelty for a bit but whenever it becomes too sweaty and optimized it immediately becomes boring and unfun.
I never really bother with MMO pvp too much anymore since it's usually just a worse unbalanced version of another game that's solely pvp and more skill based and not gear based.
Opt-in mmo pvp is fine but forcing everyone to participate in shitty mmo pvp when they're trying to pve is never going to be a good idea

Lost Ark has a returner event

>>1032659
>FFXI - No, its one theme park ride after another with no exploration. just run into party finder, run dungeon, rinse repeat......
You mean FFXIV. You should try FF11 and on the Horizon server.

>>1042549
Thats fine, MOBAs and minecraft exist already, play those.

>>1042687
Do I have to do the shitty msq?

>>1034714
Seconded, Aardwolf is fucking great. Best tutorial system I've ever seen, and a really vivid world for a MUD without being long winded. Friendly people too when I played it long ago. I'm glad to hear it's still around.

>>1036278
Looks lonely. Post more comfy pics. How does exploring work?

>>1042106
There are lots of things to hate about ESO but one thing it does right is making it so everyone can play together and no place is abandoned. The big PvP game is also superb. You can spend almost all your time there if you want and not do any PvE.

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Looking for a full loot pvp game like Asheron's Call or Ultima Online.
I'm inclined to try Mortal Online 2 but i don't think it's going to run well with my old GPU.

pls no Albion

>>1034361
>Do you want horizontal progression where your time and money is respected? -> Guild Wars 2
KEK
the grind the game puts you through is so fucking insane you would think it was your day job. fuck off with this "analysis"

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>>1044060
Im also interested

try puzzle pirates

>>1044060
normies hate those so the are super uncommon.

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>>1043947
It's VERY comfy and surprisingly lively in starter areas at least
Exploration is gated by story missions in the form of port permits. You need port permits to dock at certain cities and you get them from specific missions

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>>1045392
World design and art style in general is peak soul though

>>1044060
MO2 is pure fucking kino, just a time sink i cannot afford. im older, have a career. I started it when i had surgery last year, and it was A LOT of grinding, in each and every aspect. you cant kill anything short of the intro cemetary without hours to dump in to make some armor and move forward.

game is insane, just cant require that much time.

>>1034174
And then those players all go play Rust anyway.

>>1044670
>hit level 80 12 years ago
>log in today
>do the latest expansion content, dungeons and raids
The fuck are you talking about?
>>1046006
Same. Mortal Online 2 is too autistic for me and I think the audience for it is too old for that kind of thing.

>>1034174
this image is bullshit
wakfu and dofus were NEVER pvp mmos, they are pve mmos and pve FOCUSED
they just had tacked on pvp on the side, dofus has always had pvp and has had updates for it, but its never been a core or required element of the game
wakfu only had pvp if you wanted to attack people coming into your nation or if you wanted to sneak into their nations, there was never a need or requirement for it, the only pvp they removed was that style of world because and it wasn't done because they wanted to remove the pvp, it was done because they condensed the world and made it a REQUIREMENT to go to other nations, and they never intended to force people to pvp, so that style of pvp was removed, the actually type of pvp that people did, organized fair pvp matches still exists

dofus also has a more active pvp scene than it has EVER had, no one liked faction vs faction, fighting for percs always sucked, head hunter sucked shit too
but rated kolo is goated, ava is great, percs still suck shit though
the only gutting of pvp they have done is shut down the other game called dofus arena


this image is a lie and factually wrong, don't believe this retard who keeps posting it

I think the Koreans could make a great MMO if they ever get over their hardon for cancerous monetization

>>1046626
>Wakfu and Dofus were never PVP mmos
PVP was the end game, just because you never left the newbie areas doesn't mean the PVP didn't exist, Wakfu in particular gutted its PVP because it was flawed but faggots like you spammed forums to remove it instead of fixing it and the game died weeks, fucking weeks after removing the proper PVP system

But at least you get to farm tofus in astrub

>>1046653
pvp was never the end game for dofus.
Finding the dofus was the end game of dofus, there is a reason they were incredibly rare drops from some of the hardest bosses at the time of them being rolled out.

Wakfu had 0 support for pvp beyond being able to just fight others for its most popular period and it was only added after. Wakfu was a about a living ecological system and pve fights, pvp was never its end game

I had multiple 100+ characters when the first person reached 200, I have multiple lvl 200 characters in dofus
I played wakfu to its level cap multiple times as it kept increasing as new stuff got added, until it was 200 and even in the last few years I have played a bit as it has went over 200 to 215 and 230 and have my team of 230's

you genuinely have no fucking idea of what you are a talking about, they are pve games primarily and always have been.
I like pvp, I play lots of competitive games, I actively pvp in dofus, I loved playing dofus arena, and pvp in general is great
but you are actually just a lying moron, go play a competitive game if you want a pvp focus, plenty exist, pvp in mmos is naturally secondary to pve and its ALWAYS been secondary in dofus and wakfu.

>>1046658
Newfag, faggots like you got PVP removed back when Wakfu was in its prime and probably never participated in any of the tournaments in Dofus

>B-but the end game is this scripted stuff not PVP
Then what, you collected everything (you did collect everything, right?) then what? Thats right faggots like you quit the game, while actual fans of the game stick around and play alts and PVP.

>>1043948
>The big PvP game is also superb
There is nothing like it but I wouldn't call it good.

>>1046671
I have represented my server for a goultarminator.
its never been a pvp focused game, and its never removed pvp, it doesn't fit into your narrative in the slightest.

>actual fans of the game
see I know you are not an actual fan of the game, because I post in the ankama games thread here, and I post in the mmo threads on /v/ to mention dofus, as do a few others, no one in the ankamas games threads thinks its a pvp game, no one talks about it being a pvp focused game anywhere
you don't play dofus
you never played dofus
you don't even know the structure of the "tournament" you mentioned


you are a whiny little bitch who is factually wrong about something he has never played.

>>1046681
calm down larper

PVP removal killed the game and people are still salty about it, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it didn't exist

>>1046687
>pvp removal killed the game
its not removed.

>>1046692
It was, but you can keep pretending larper :)

how expensive is lotro and what can you tell me about gw2? is it gonna die in the near future?

>>1046768
Lotro is free and gw2 just released a new xpac

>>1034316
pvp boring af and unbalanced as shit in open world settings.

We live in an age with literally mountains of great, engaging, balanced pvp shooters literally everywhere, MMO pvp is not where it's at.

>>1048757
Thats cool, go play those instead of demanding every MMO that comes out to become a doomed WOW clone.

>>1048757
pve boring af and cutscenes are boring and shit

We live in an age with litterally mountains of great, engaging, story driven cutscene simulators and cookie clickers, MMO pve is not where It's at.

>>1048795
every pvp mmo fails in the exact same fucking way though
>release game
>people poopsock and rush to a decent level
>start ganking newfags right outside town
>newfags quit
>game dwindles to just 20 people that want to ambush lowbies while they're overleveled and overgeared
>these people then quit because the idea of a moderately balanced fight makes them REEEEEEEEEEEE
literally the only exception that I can think of is kurtzpel, and that failed because it was a lobby-based arena fighter with no updates masquerading as an mmo

>>1049177
Based and true. Whenever this comes up, people always point and scream about how EvE and Albion are successful. Nobody has been able to replicate EvE's success in 20+ years and the game's population has stopped growing. Albion only become successful after putting in extensive anti-pvp/gank mechanics (like flag only zones) and PvE content.

But yeap, I've played so many pvp mmos. And people sit there and bully/fuck around so much with newer players that they quit/leave bad reviews. Which dominos into less and less people playing. Resulting in the death of the game.

>>1049177
>Every PVP MMO fails
Every PVE MMO also fails in the same ways
>Shit is too easy that people run out of content to do so people quit
>shit is to annoying/timegated that people quit

Again, the argument is that PVP is the ultimate end game, because after you do all the content in the game it gives you a reason to keep playing instead of quitting after uber badass megadeath dragon 9000 EXdeth is killed because now you can use the sword it dropped to kill people in PVP, a completely seperate but still engaging system if done well.

But you PVE fags don't seem to understand this and just get your panties in a bunch thinking that having good PVP in an MMO = you getting corpse camped.

>>1049330
>>1049177
>I played WOW on a PVE server for 20 years and im an expert on these things

>>1046653
You're an actual retard if you think Dofus' endgame is purely PvP. PvP is one endgame and it's really good right now but it's PvE content is arguably the most well designed out of any MMO.

>>1048756
Play Dofus
>>1049904
Bet you've never done Harebourg


Fact is "open world PvP" where people involuntarily get randomly shanked and permanently lose their stuff is a terrible idea.

>>1049941
No one said anything about open world PVP that isn't opt in :)

Only that PVP is the ultimate end game and without it your game is doomed to fail unless its extreme coomer bait

New players always have safe zones and there are tons of systems to protect them from unwanted PvP. The only full loot PvP MMOs worth picking up right now are Eve and Albion. Nobody plays these old PvP MMOs that allow you to bully new players anymore.

>>1050020
EVE is the most newbro friendly MMO on the market right now its not even funny.

It just doesn't cater to solo trannies

>>1049941
>>1049936
I'm new to wakfu and I see dofus is from the same company. Is it better?

>>1050069
Even though you are multiboxing with 10 alts, you are still solo

>>1050073
Wakfu is newer and may run smoother but it's considered worse than Dofus because Dofus is simply an older game with more content, more population and more fleshed out systems. While Wakfu initially when released tried to develop new systems for players to enjoy they've since scaled back many of those systems from what I've heard
(Planting monsters, farming, Haven Worlds, Minting, Player Politics).

I've only played Wakfu to 60 but I've finished a lot of Dofus up to max level 200. Despite Wakfu being the newer game Dofus is clearly their bigger game that has more attention. And with Dofus Unity is going to be newer in quality, graphics and performance.

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>>1050499
>>1050073
This might be inaccurate but an example of how Dofus may be better than Wakfu is comparison to their map design. Since by lore Wakfu's world is basically Dofus but after Ogrest's Chaos where the majority of the land has since been submerged.
https://dofusdb.fr/en/tools/map

>>1050499
>>1050505
Yeah I've since tried out Dofus and it seems a lot more polished and playable to me in many aspects. But the performance was worrying, yeah. Does anyone know when the Unity port is coming out?

>>1052045
Early next year
Yeah Dofus performance is rpetty bad for how simple it is. But if you know some things it becomes manageable. Clearing your cache, making sure your GPU is rendering it via something like Nvidia control panel, running it in Full Screen Windows and assigning it high priority on Task Manager should make it better.

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I like FF11

>>1052263
Ah, I'm on Linux actually. To be honest it's not that the performance is bad, it's just that it really gets my fans spinning and my CPU temps hover around 67-71 degrees Celsius. I was confused at first because I thought there was no way such a simple game could work my computer like that, but the more I know I suppose. I'll try out the Unity version next year.

>>1032659
MMOS suck

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>>1046626
>wakfu and dofus were NEVER pvp mmos
LOL Wut?
>4 warring factions up from previous 2
>Each faction has resources they specialize in
>At lvl 10(?) you're forced into choosing a faction
>Hirelings/Heroes were introduced as a pay2win element for whales to gank free2play players
>You could ONLY mint kamas, and no monsters dropped money forcing you into doing professions which pushed you into enemy territory
I could go on, but i didnt read your post, after the first sentance i assumed you were trolling.

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>>1046626
>>1054732
>Cont.
Also most importantly look at the player numbers dude. Why is 1.29 on dofus the most popular patch (Hint: Weapon item balance)? Why did the player numbers PLUMMET when pvp was removed (Wakfu)? Why did ankama release the stupid division 2 style extraction pvp only a patch or 2 after the player numbers bottomed out? Why are there ZERO english servers in wakfu today? The only "international" server has only spanish speakers because if you combined all the english speakers it couldnt form a full server dumbass
>THE GAME WAS MEANT TO CATER TO MEEEEE
Then open a private server and play by yourself pinko

>>1032659
god I wish tree of savior were a better game
I love its style but it's just such a dumpster fire of bad decisions

If you want to play PvP then Dofus is a good choice. My last AvA was massive with 100 players all around. You'd literally see a giant line of Battle-Swords on the map indicating combat between 2 or more players.

>>1034316
>PVP or farming PVE to make money for PVP
Yeah, you don't even play OSRS

>>1059288
t. can't three way switch safer

>>1059940
>albion online has barely 100 players
Albion has became very depopulated in recent years but I still believe it will make a come back

>>1060477
I wish new world would be more like albion + runescape. The gathering and farming mats part of the game is probably the best one in any mmo I played, such a waste

>>1060487
Gathering and farming are leftovers from the game New World was supposed to be, vestigial for a typical WOW clone where crafting is worthless compared to dungeon farms

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>>1060487
>mining iron veins sounds in a canyon type area

>>1060477
They added open world zones that only solo players can enter.
As a solo player without a guild you don't even enter a regular blackzone anymore. That place is for guilds.

>>1059929
>safer
You're just proving my point.

>>1061217
shhh, just go back to farming raids1 and dumping dragon claws and kodai's onto the GE for real players thanks.

>>1032659
Have you tried Return of Reckoning?

I'm still playing FFXI retail. It's nice to relax with my Xbox controller and a drink and find something to do, the amount of content is overwhelming and there's still people playing all day long.

>>1034361
>can not recommend WOW/FFXIV/ESO
>but can recommend Gorgon/New World/SWG
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>1062560
I can't recommend WoW because it's shit
I can't recommend XIV because it's more of a visual novel than video game
I can't recommend ESO because of lack of difficulty scaling
I can recommend those games because they're games and don't get ruined because you played too much or ran out of content. I don't expect zoomer retards to understand the sentiment.

Rift

>>1059940
the truth hurts but you are right

why an MMO, OP?

>>1062560
desu new world is better than these 3, even if the game itself is mediocre

>>1062692
desu I'm loving New World after the expansion. Every issue I had with the game was fixed. Better loot systems, better progression, mounts feel great, lots of content between the elysian wilds and brimstone sands

>>1032659
Eve is picking up a lot of steam.

>>1032659
>wants soulless role trinity faggotry
>doesn't want a soulless theme park of teleporting from instance to instance (the thing role trinity was made for)
can you make your fucking mind up anon
if you want to chop your balls off play FFXIV, if you want a good game then look somewhere that doesn't do role trinity shit. I suggest EQ, FFXI, or lotro.

I tried to come back to maplestory but I just got blackpilled again cuz I'm a wagie and I don't have the time to no life a game that some progression systems can last 8 months or more. Of course I could come back to my old reggie account but I literally don't have the means to drop 100$ or 200$ monthly on that shit anymore. I just want a silly MMO to play at my own pace, I'm fine with sweating but I don't want second jobs like lost ark. I got in before there was any substantial gatekeeping and it's just a faggot second job I hate it because the devs are faggots. I was willing to put up with maplestory since it was my gateway MMO and there's a nostalgia factor reeling me in but it's so what's the point... Going to have to play a year minimum to take a step out of a beginner stage and have to do it on like 9 other characters. Not like I didn't do it in reggie when I was a fucking NEET but I can't do that anymore

Guess I'm waiting for a new mmo or something because I refuse to play gachashit or another gook game ffs. Maybe I'll touch ffxiv again

>log in to new world
>story quests missing
>rendering bug making mobs invisible until you walk up to them
for all the real human beings in here, don't fall for the shills.

>>1064039
Works on my machine sounds like a (You) problem

>>1064058
sure thing ranjeet, this even happened on shroud's streams for thousands of people to laugh at new world's expense. amazon can't even fix their game for their paid streamers to shill the game properly.

>>1064119
shroud couldn't get a heartrune, so fucking what. it's miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

>>1064122
If you rework your entire game into a basic bitch WOW clone the WOW clone aspects better at least be functional.

>>1032659
try playing minewind shit is gonna be huge in a few years

>make potentially good game
>repurpose it to cater to the blizzdrone audience
>game becomes shit
bravo, amazon

runescape is always the answer

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What's the closest MMO to SWTOR except newer?

I really appreciate the cutscenes, actual main story and even dialogue choices of SWTOR but want something a little different than star wars.

>>1065000
Have you considered just playing regular RPGs? You're effectively playing a single player game with live service dogshit attached, get rid of the live service and just play a single player RPG like Baldur's Gate

>>1065014
single player games feel lonely :(

>>1064646
>minewind
looks like another shitty minecraft server with p2w cashshop, which is against Mojangs TOS btw

>>1032659
The truth is you will never find the MMO you're searching for. SJW buzzards and Asmongold clones will consume every new MMO and push companies to pander to the lowest common denominator, themselves. This is because MMOs have become the safe space for degenerate, hedonistic wagies of the world. They don't have to think about their shitty job at Walmart and the terrible home life they created when they can live in a game. This foster's a community of failed human beings not playing a game for fun, but for an escape from responsibility.

My recommendation to you, anon, is to find a real life hobby. It's over. It's never coming back. Pick up a sport or outdoor activity. You won't be able to find another good MMO because you know the truth.

>>1032659
>after 7 months DOTA free.
Congrats

>>1034174
Pure PVP isn't the savior either. i50 DAoC shards would never have died if PVP was all it took.

Not advocating pve as the pve focus in DAoC is sleep inducing.

You need proper balance. You need pve to be good and PVP to be balanced sure but you need to have shit for solos and lowbies to do in addition to stuff for groups. If it's a numbers game where more dudes always wins or more time always wins then you won't be able to hold onto the casual population which gives life to a server. This doesn't mean making end game content easy but rather less impactful. Someone can min max but the last set should be a 1% total difference in effectiveness. High group heal abilities should only kick in against other groups as those fun clutch abilities become massive hammers when pops are low as you can't do anything but form a bigger group.

>>1042549
>Opt-in mmo pvp is fine but forcing everyone to participate in shitty mmo pvp when they're trying to pve is never going to be a good idea
It's always a good idea. People often complain about being "forced to do x" like being forced to join groups for content or being forced to join guilds but in reality this is what drives players to actually interact with each other.
For opt-in PvP everyone's a ghost, you don't give a shit if they pass by you, they're just an NPC. With FFA PvP every player is a human and potential friend or enemy, when another player passes by, you can't afford to ignore him. Let's say you get killed by him, so you go back to town and yell around saying there's a PK in Dragon's Valley and you get a group of players following you and then the PK also calls his own group and suddenly you have those organic community experiences everyone unconsciously craves in MMOs yet no one knows why they disappeared after MMOs did away with the "icky stuff" players hated like having to manually find groups for raids or forced pvp.

>>1065376
this

>>1033324
Xi needs to entirely ban gaming in China

>>1065376
mmotards btfo

multiplayer morrowind on openmw. not kidding, it is a great and functional mmo experience on a populated server. otherwise, maybe phantasy star online?

>>1066059
>Let's say you get killed by him, so you go back to town and yell around saying there's a PK in Dragon's Valley and you get a group of players following you and then the PK also calls his own group and suddenly you have those organic community experiences everyone unconsciously craves in MMOs
Yeah, this is fun and cute the first time it happens except after the novelty wears off and you want to actually level / quest or whatever in the area and you can't it's annoying. It only kind of works if the game is centered and balanced around that kind of open world PvP gameplay like something like Sea of Thieves, Rust, Tarkov etc. You can't have an MMO that's centered around PvE content then slap open world PvP onto it like most games do and not have it be cancer which is why they always end up removing or nerfing it. Souls game ended up removing/nerfing invading too because they're a PvE game first with PvP tacked on.

>>1064122
>heartrune
>powerful game-changing extra ability in a game that literally only has 6 abilities
>minuscule
Jesus Christ. I'm enjoying the game but I'm actually starting to believe there really are shills for it. You can still like the game and admit that it's shit how players can't access what is essentially an ultimate ability going on 3 weeks now.

>>1067466
The conversation was about non opt in PvP. There are people that are upset that they can't just run around PKing anyone they want in an MMO. When pvp isn't opt in you can't always PvE when you want to because there's someone at max level one shotting you every time you step out of town.
It especially becomes a problem when a game gets more and more content and there are older areas without many veteran players in them. So, if you're a newbie catching up on old content and one PKer decides to come along and spawn camp you, you're likely not getting any help.

>>1042108
>best
Laurelin, even if you aren't a roleplayer the community is great
>most populous
Arkenstone/Gladden/Crickhollow are populated quite highly for US, Evernight and Laurelin for EU.

>>1034361
>Project Gorgon
Going to try the demo, the description makes it seem interesting

>>1065014
DA:I is the only game that has MMO combat

>>1067497
I find it quite funny with this game is that we're re-experiencing lessons that were taught by this genre years ago.
>Node Situation
nodes constantly being down if the game is popular. Made worse by raising pop cap of servers. So they have to choose between less queues or less resources to be shared among gatherers. Until they figure out a better way to do it. Feels like Gw2 solved this issue. Yeah player specific nodes are a bummer. But even in WoW back when I played this was an issue with bots camping resource nodes.
>PvP sweaty and tryhards dunking on everyone
Yeap, yet another tally in the mark of why full pvp mmorpgs rarely work and are hard to get popular. I do kind of wish they put in a parry system if heavy armor and maybe even medium. Where if you time your block against an attack (and only with a shield or specific melee weapons like the rapier), then it would do something special. It would take endurance. To give something more...interesting than just the dodge meta. I don't see that never being the meta with this games combat.

But yeah the overall theme of the game is so stupid. They're trying too hard to be unique. They take pre-established well polished themes and try to do something different. Flail is a good example. Obviously a paladin weapon. But hey, lets make it do arcane damage and purple special effects. Fucking why. Then all the armor has to be this "Halloween party" look for whatever reason. They're getting better in this regard, but first 2 years it was rough.

>>1043076
nope you get any set of your choosing and boosted to lvl 55 + 1415
ive completed the event and at 1545 now

FFXIV

just ignore the community that's 90% troons

>/v/ has a game dev thread
>/vg/ has a game dev thread
>/g/ has a game dev thread
>/vrpg/ has a game dev thread
We need a /vm/ game dev thread let's make the ultimate MMO together, the search is over.

>>1067785
MMO combat isn't good.

>>1032659
It's a garbage dying genre, why even bother? MMORPGs are all about promise and little actual delivery.

>>1068845
Its not really dying as much as its simply going through an identiy crisis.

Too many faggots drank the WOW koolaid that MMO = Mindless instanced grindshit and all MMOs that try to copy WOTLK fail to go anywhere because WOTLK had 10 million players to feed into the instanced to slow burn, even the most popular MMO since WOTLK, FF14, barely reached 1/10th of the active playerbase which is why they needed to start adding NPCs party members for new players to do content with.

I'm waiting for Odin Valhala rising and HIT2 to come to the west.

I'm sick of black desert.

>>1032659
the mordhau rpg mod could've been the mmorpg we all want if people cared

The thing is, you aren't pursuing a mmo. You're pursuing your fond childhood memories.
I doubt any game can replicate that.

>>1068912
/thread

>>1068122
hardly an rpg and they're killing the mmo part. next.

>>1045392
>>1045393
Thanks anon, I'm going to try this out.

>>1044060
Asheron's Call has a healthy emulator community for what it's worth. Not to nitpick but it isn't full loot. On death you drop your most valuable item, which is usually a gemstone or some other treasure you carry just for that purpose, i.e. you don't lose your favorite weapon etc. or have to bank all your best gear when some gank squad is roaming around.

>>1067787
I can't figure out what game this post was about. New World? BO2?

>>1069127
new world, but the guy is a complete retard. The game is bad but not for these reasons

>>1067645
This is the main reason, only reason I might even argue, that it doesn't work. Open PvP absolutely worked in vanilla and TBC WoW, and even benefited from ganking and corpse camping, because the endgame people always showed up and the result was a big satisfying fight. But people forget that this was opt-in by way of server selection, and also faction-based with a much greater faction divide than you see today. No common language, considerable distance between faction territories, no alts on the other side. It was fucking great and they ruined it. Classic didn't really address that problem either. Classic has always been full of WoW superfans. WoW's world PvP relied on a population of casuals slow boating through the game. One or two levels per WEEK. I had a huge guild, just one of many, where we had a big push to try and reach level 58 in time for TBC. If you were level 60 it was like you were one of the cool seniors, and one of your duties was to protect other players in your faction.

>>1069139
open pvp only works on fresh starts/server wipes because people start on an open slate and if you get left behind it's not too bad because it will get wiped anyway, just have to hop on at the beginning though. this also sort of kills the mmo aspect since what's the point if you have to keep starting over.

the game with the best open pvp was RF online but I doubt anyone here even played

>>1069185
my filipinos coworkers run an rf online server, is it really that good?

>>1069192
I played until the BMAU/RMAU update and was great, after that I remember the official servers getting extremely p2w. Keep in mid that only the open world pvp was well done everything else was flawed

I always thought Ran online is neat because school setting.

>>1069177
>open PVP only works on servers where nolifers can beat casual players
Yeah no, open PVP only works when it isn't a shitty grindfest like ladder reset shit.

Games that require constant resets fucking suck dick and are antithetical to the MMO concept to begin with since the persistant world element is removed.

>>1068897
Too bad, they are never getting a release.
It's only black desert.

Throne and Liberty should have been released already but that also turned out to be a lie.
I guess this really is the end of mmos.

>>1069578
Last I heard amazon forced everyone to make a non disclosure agreement on the beta and died there.

Look, if you do this, it's pretty much a given you're trying something scummy or hiding something.

>>1069587
sir, that had nothing to do with amazon games. the truth is that the game throne and liberty was have to rework its combat hence the delay. it is the fault of the throne and liberty developers and not amazon. thank you.

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>>1066401
>>1067645
>>1067787
>>1068891
>Why don’t we just create & design software that protects consumers from their overwhelming FOMO & sense of entitlement!?
>No, we, the consumers, will not take responsibility for our complete lack of self control, nor will we tolerate anyone drawing the light upon the fact that consumers can be trained like rats
>No, it’s [COMPANY NAME]’s fault, why can’t you just tell us what to like and then make us like it wtf can you believe i payed real money for this?? I could be playing something else omg!!!!

>>1069139
>Open PvP absolutely worked in vanilla and TBC WoW, and even benefited from ganking and corpse camping, because the endgame people always showed up and the result was a big satisfying fight. But people forget that this was opt-in by way of server selection, and also faction-based with a much greater faction divide than you see today. No common language, considerable distance between faction territories, no alts on the other side.
I don't understand why this can't be a thing. I've never actually played much of wow before but what's the problem with owpvp if the zones are huge and players are separated by factions and territories? Everyone always makes the argument about griefers but will shoot down every idea to remediate that issue, people nowadays are weird and refuse to believe that open world pvp can work in an MMO without it being griefer's paradise.

Nobody wants open world PvP because MMOs are solo grinding games now. You need to fucking let go of WoW if you want open world PvP. Just let go. Let it go. Stop looking for more WoW clones and we can finally start having good MMOs again. For fuck's sake.

>>1071535
PvP tards don't want just any open world pvp, they want full loot and crippling death penalties with no pve servers so casuals have to get through their bullshit.

>>1071553
Full loot pvp is really gay, imo only works in something like foxhole where the loot doesn't matter to the average player since it's not something they had to grind for and never have to grind for if they don't want to. The idea of full loot pvp in a game that has mandatory grinding and isn't based around a common war effort is kinda retarded. Wish there was foxhole but in a fantasy setting and I'd be happy

>>1034174
lmao this image is toptier cherry-picking

Tree of Savior never was PvP focused, what killed the game is IMC being greedy and turning the beta into a fucking P2W shitstorm

Wakfu never was PvP focused, and let me tell you that Ankama removing the PvP was not the killing blow, it was piss-poor management and the founder of Ankama simply abandonning the game like an asshole, cutting the dev team from 10s of people to IIRC 5 or 6 juniors now. Final nail in the coffing was letting you pay to control 3 characters, effectivly killing the multiplayer part of a game where content is made for 6 chars. New server is giving back hope however, no multi-char bullshit, 60k+ pre-register, and the game has 10 years of content for PvE players to catch on.

Dofus (Ankama again) - never was PvP focused, them dropping the overworld PvP was for the best as this did not enhance the main gameplay loop and was overall a shitty idea. PvP is still existing through matchmaking and is rewarding, as well as being supported by small esport events and globally the company knowing that if they fuck up this game, it's a death sentence. This game is probably keeping Ankama afloat, playerbase is healthy. INT was never their thing, it's mainly BR and FR.

New World was DOA anyways

Tera is dogshit, killing the PvP was not their biggest grief, it's greed

Wildstar and Firefall can stay dead as the shitty wow-like they were.


OP, go play wakfu on the new server realising nov 2nd it's freemium

Wanting to play a PvP MMO is essentially a choice between EVE and Foxhole. I'd recommend Foxhole over EVE.

>>1033063
>>1033281
Eve is not >free. The free account puts you in a massive disadvantage against subbed players and should be considered a trial feature (unless you are already established and can squeeze a bit of additional utility out of a horde of alpha ALTs).

Actually playing EVE comfortably requires a minimum of two paid accounts, full stop.

>>1063386
All the basic issues remain and won't be given the dev attention because CCP is mainly working on other projects and it's simpler to just release mtx trash and copypasta fomo events to placate the care bear retards still playing.

>>1071574
Full loot (or rather let's say 50% destroyed and 50% dropped) is the requirement for good PVP because it puts price/performance and risk/reward equations into the play, keeps gearing honest and gives rewards to actively hunting others.

Play wildstar private server.

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New World is unironically the best MMO out right now. It has modern graphics and interactive combat, and a nice community feeling which is ironically thanks to the jank and the developers being slow to implement party finder and matchmaking features. I'm just worried they're making it too solo friendly, they are already making solo alternatives to progressing in the story expeditions instead of running expeditions with other players. Also proximity voice chat is a massive feature in terms of making the game feel social, it cannot be understated and wish it was standard in other MMOs.

New World is this generation's Meridian 59, it is a prototype of the next generation of MMOs. Whoever can perfect New World's formula and avoid a catastrophic launch will have the next Ultima Online on their hands.

>>1074725
>tank and spank mashing
>'interactive combat'
New World fags really are just nu-WOWfags

>>1074726
And it's still better than the antiquated tab-targeting or pseudo-action-combat alternatives (see GW2/ESO/BDO). I'm not saying it's great, but it's definitely best in class which says more about the genre than anything else.

>>1074729
Its shit, how the fuck is this the 'next gen MMO" when its the same instanced dogshit tank and spank ability spam.

Its fucking boring and shit, like Monster Hunter has been doing the whole instanced boss fighting genre better for almost 20 years now.

Come back with claims about a 'next gen MMO" when it doesn't just look like WOW again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_rBpLRpz-o

>>1074725
The problem is that the definition of MMOs have been warped for the past 2 decades. New World follows more of an old-school feeling, I agree. There's less focus on lore and story elements, and more emphasis of the communities in the server itself. It's just a different school of thought, some people want to role-play in a pre-established world and its own lore, and others want to collaborate with other players in the server to create its own culture. I prefer the latter desu although I recognize this has become a super minority opinion which is why MMOs cater to the former with their theme parks.

>>1074735
My guy, New World is the defintion of themepark MMO.

Just because it replaced auto attack with left click spam doesn't mean its anything different.

>>1074735
>There's less focus on lore and story elements
Not anymore, New World is leaning into the story stuff which is funny because nobody pays attention to it. The reason the community focuses more on itself instead of the lore is because the game was released in an incomplete state.
>MMOs cater to the former with their theme parks.
New World is a theme park.

>>1074737
Yep, they finally put in the time and effort to transition into a full WOW clone after the hackjob of a release they did when they transitioned last minute from an MMO into a themepark ARPG.

>>1074733
Jesus christ is this a fucking phone game what the fuck is that UI.

>>1074733
Monster Hunter isn't a fucking MMO, and for what its worth the fact that it's even being compared to it is a compliment. You call that video shit but it's still better than any other MMO out right now.
>>1074736
>>1074737
I agree that I don't w ant it to be a theme park. The community kept it alive primarily because of PvP, but I think if they can master the open world then I can tolerate theme park stuff.

>>1074733
>12:22
lol nice game

>>1074741
>Better than any MMO out right now
Not even, new world has less players than fucking EVE Online, a 20 year old MMO with actual dogshit gameplay, but is still leaps and bounds better interactivity and MMO gameplay than fucking New World.

>>1074744
>argumentum ad populum
not an argument

>>1074747
I mean if you're only going to have a couple thousand players they should all be on a single server and not running fucking instances.

its 2023, your MMO shouldn't have less players in its core content than fucking Path of Exile groups.

lol new world really makes this site seethe, you finally get the paradigm shift you've been begging for in MMOs and you rebuke it.

>shit WOW clone
>paradigm shift
new world fags are fucking retarded lmao

Its this retarded thinking is why the genre is fucking dead

>>1074784
it can't be a wowclone for the last time its combat system is revolutionary just because it has dungeons doesn't make it a wowclone you sped

>>1074788
>its combat system is revolutionary
>Litterally just removed auto attack and replaced it with m1 click spam
Tera did this
Vindictus did this
FFXIV 1.0 did this

stop, being, retarded, your combat is not 'interactive', because your right click is a shield, you're still ability spamming tank and spanking through speedrun hallways, its a fucking WOW clone, stop pretending otherwise.

>>1074791
at least you have to aim your attacks and get a dodge with i-frames. just because you think it's shit doesn't change the fact that others are even worse than it.
>>1074795
direct me the thread you meant to post this in, also speaking of riot i wonder how their mmo will turn out

>>1074797
Cool, your combat as the basic elements of a PS2 game from 15 years ago that multiple games have already done better and ultimately failed because that novelty doesn't make a good MMO. Not revolutionary in the slightest.

>>1074800
In your opinion, what makes a good MMO?

>>1074802
1: Every class needs to interact with the encounter/pull, not just the tank, damage isn't a role, damage is the bare bones requirement of the game as you're just killing shit
2: Dungeons should be long and interesting crawls, not speedrun hallways for numbers go up gameplay, doing the same shit with bigger numbers is fucking boring
3: Goals in game need to be achievable and time gates simply shouldn't be a thing, i'd prefer a long as fuck autism grind that ends instead of an infinity grind
4: Items and builds needs to be interactive and interesting, numbers go up stat sticks are fucking boring, grinding your ilvl/expertise bigger is dogshit design, make items interesting so I can give a fuck about them
5: 5 man instances is not a fucking MMO, stop this shit, its 2023, your game shouldn't be worse than WOW was in 2004

>>1074601
There isn't a single (at least) somewhat developed Wildstar private server out there.

Any anons playing mo2 ? :3 sad there's no 4chsn guild yet

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>grew up playing many MMOs because of the enjoyment of meeting interesting, fun people from around the world while exploring a cool fantasy setting
>try doing the same these days, whether in a modern MMO or a classic MMO's private server
>players barely talk, everybody already has their friend groups, never really feel like I have much in common with other players even when we get along and don't really ever run into anybody interesting
>go play a singleplayer RPG with fun, well written party members instead
Did MMO players become less fun to be around or do I just like the average person less now that I'm older? Anybody else feel this way?

>>1075045
both. games like roblox are unironically better if you're looking for more 'social' communities. mmorpgs are full of jaded boomers.

>>1075045
>classic MMO's private server
Hard to believe you played a classic MMO private server (not wow, wow is not a classic ffs) and had no social interactions.

>>1075045
Catering to the asian MMO market was a mistake, they're all shut in anti-social fucks who will mass report anyone who talks.

>>1034534
I have played gw2 since release and had 0world progression until last year when a "girl" in my guild wanted to take me to the naked beach. GW2 is best with a guild on discord I think, mainly because it is a (((PvP))) game. A good guild will want to go do content together and the like on the side when events come around; but I've always considered gw2 a pvp game, as it was intended to be geared towards on release.

Everquest P99 is currently my guilty pleasure. I play it everyday. I found just getting started, and binding keys, etc, to have been the most daunting bit. Once u've chosen a character, I suggest just committing a bit and then what seemed daunting; starts to grow on u. I just love the freedom gfx, and the no hand-holding game play. I chose monk, so I'm very busy in dungeons pulling, bard is quite active too.. but when I'm farming solo on a camp; I can pop on a movie and just chill. #1 mmo to play with a gf in the room kuz u can tailor ur experience I.e chill farm or epic delve with the boisngirls

was addicted to DDO and have a couple characters reborn a couple times: this game is DEAD dead. It's just broken beyond repair I think. There are too many high reborn or just thinkers n whatnot, that the experience I had starting out is NOTHING CLOSE to wat it used to be. Back in the day I struggled to get past the first port missions. Gathering adventurers with my dollar store headset, forming the perfect composition to handle a hard mode lv13 dungeon... now as soon as u start up; everyone is zerging content all the way up to the frign end. I just don't think they thought too far ahead with the reborn system; reminds me of dark souls when ur just too strong for content and ur running it with a friend who also smashes as hard as u: cake walk

ESO meh. Get a class then hit ur rotates and GG. Honestly pretty decent game but the content is just drivel to me.

Tl;dr: gw2 is a pvp game in my eyes. Eq p99 is so far the best mmo I've played

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gonna try it out what am i in for

>>1075514
Click on wood, click on stone, spam click on animals

40 hours later you run this game's version of mythic+ ad nauseum with premade builds and numbers go up progression.

>>1075514
>what am I in for
Here you go
>combat
For all its praises, it's average. Block, light/heavy attack, dodge distance depending on armor weight. It gives a false sense of depth and becomes repetitive. Small skirmishes are good but large scale fights are just zerg trash.
>graphics are a weird mix of realistic, and cartoony.
It will age poorly kind of like the obsession games had with lens flare back in the early 2010s.
>weapon trees are boring as fuck
I don't think 3 abilities per weapon are bad, but you literally only have 6 to choose from and each tree is shoehorned into a certain playstyle.
>mobs are laughably easy
To be expected from PvE themepark but it's a waste of the combat and leaves much to be desired
>gathering/fishing
probably the best part of the game desu

It's not the >paradigm shift of mmos, but it's completely serviceable. Easily a top 5 MMO by virtue of how fucking cursed the genre is right now, arguably top 2 after WoW.

>>1074729
>bdo is pseudo-action combat
can't agree, BDO is dogshit for many reasons but can't say the combat has much to do with it outside of the lag and class balance. GW2/ESO are more in line with each other since it's a lot of ugly floaty animations where the upper torso and legs move independently of each other. Games where people can throw out attacks and walk around at the same time just look like shit and I unironically might check out NW because it doesn't have hideous animations and combat where everyone is strafing in the middle of a fight.

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Biggest issue with 'action combat' is that they don't use the 'action' part to make it more interactive, only less, and instead focus more on button mashing hyper combos.

Every single game that has implemented action combat has failed to add in any real interactivity other than some basic half baked shit some slav jank RPG tried 10+ years ago, they're never on the level of Monster Hunter because they're afraid autistic zoomers will get mad at actual interactive action combat, nor do they want to return to MMO roots where your spells and abilities actually had real functions, like multiple forms of crowd control besides AOE infinite threat tanking that just devolves into a zerging cleavefest. Faster isn't nessisarily more engaging, and adding a random "fuck you" mutator to a dungeon like WOW and New World does just punishes players with non-interactive mechanics that just force you to go slow

>>1075889
Also no matter how much 'action combat' ability they give the players, the NPCs continue to act as the same dumb as shit AOE shitting auto attacking faggot design from 1999 because they're also scared of getting rid of the terrible trinity of tired mechanics, such as tank threat, and giving monsters proper AI like you would see in Monster Hunter where you're not always attacking the highest 'threat' target, and forcing players to actually engage with the fight instead of forcing them to engage in an awkard game of DDR damage rotation.

>>1075889
>>1075890
Vindictus is the closest thing there is to a good action combat MMO. It's a better, more faster-paced Monster Hunter, only instead of fighting big monsters you're usually fighting big humans. Blocking and dodging attacks in Vindictus still feels better than any other game because it rewards you for knowing the bosses' attack patterns (which are random) and letting you punish accordingly.
The game has a dozen other problems, but for action-oriented PvE boss fights, it's still the best 13 years later.

>>1075953
Vindictus is miles behind Monster Hunter, even when it came out, and while the combat is better than modern trinity shit, the fact that vindictus isn't an MMO holds that fact back hard.

mabinogi before they fucked it even though windmill kinda throws a wrench into everything to begin with

>>1075983
meant for
>>1075889

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DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online), the only "P2W" mmo-rpg you'll never win just by swiping, the core gameplay loop is literally based on how well you can pilot your characters, the joy of progression is from you beating the fuck out of bosses while suffering from early onset arthritis if you play manual (playing hotkeys is fine but you miss out on the "pro gamer" fantasy) and eye cancer thanks to the amount of adhd riddled effects on the screen (which you can turn down). Think Diablo, POE but side scrolling arcade instead of top down, overall very fun. Cons are that it's got a fatigue bar for each character and pvp is basically dead cause the game runs on p2p connection, very bad in NA but no issues in Korea or China.

>>1032659
I have the same issue and honestly I don't wanna search for "the" MMO anymore, I just wanna be freed from these nostalgia-induced thoughts of experiencing new games and having fun with new and old friends.
I can't go back and I want to stop deluding myself I can.
All my old contacts are either lost or went sour or they grind too much for me to catch up.
I don't even have time for grinding MMOs anyway, I'd rather be fulfilled in real life.
I'm stuck in a cycle of
>install game
>spend 5 minutes up to a few hours in it
>never come back
I want to stop, I want to despise this shit and hate it and never come back.

>>1076009
>the only "P2W" mmo-rpg you'll never win just by swiping,
you mean like black desert online?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isiGr8YnN28

>>1076033
Par for the course for any Korean MMOs, I couldn't stomach BDO personally, it all boils down to "skill issue", even for the whales

>>1076055
>>1076057
Why'd you delete that, cutie newfriend desu senpai?

>>1076061
my sleep deprived ass was in the middle of "despite etc" but decided not to and didnt delete all of em, thats why

Anarchy Online. Been playing it since the Beta on and off and nothing comes close to it.

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The answer is - Follaut 2 online!

Get client from the link and be prepared for the world most dangerous video game ever produced!!!
https://fonline2.com/en/download-fonline-2/

>>1076086
holy mother of shills

>>1076009
looks like shit lol

>>1075889
have you ever tried new world?

>>1076009
I liked DFO during some of its earlier level caps but the autismal grind and p2w eventually made me drop it, along with some of the other changes. It suffers from the same issue a lot of KMMOs have; your overall gameplay shifts from using your skills in combos to just popping nuke skill after nuke skill after nuke skill.
using manual mode for at least a couple of your skills is based though, mainly because it significantly expands your moveset by freeing up keybinds

>>1034534
DO NOT PLAY CLASSIC EVERQUEST. It's the heaviest drug there is.

>>1032659
>trying to find a MMO
Literally the most tiresome fucking thread posted on any of 4chans boards. You already know the answer; they ALL. SUCK. Now FUCK OFF already.

>>1076057
Yeah pretty much. I still play every now and then to do node wars and return when the 3v3 arena is in season, but beyond that I just refuse to grind in games anymore lol. It's weird to see how many people still grind bdo 10 hours a day

>>1076166
New world is a prime example of exactly what I said.

>>1032659
been playing Warhammer ror, it's basically wow I guess but more focused on pvp. I enjoy it mainly because of the *aesthetics* (dark elves make me act up)

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>>1075045
Also doesn't help people have gone from actually chatting and hanging out in-game to migrating a bulk of the socializing to a third party spyware data-harvesting platform.
>Join us on Discord!

>>1075189
>DDO
I imagine it would still be a good play with a group of friends or if you could find a guild/clan of newbs

>>1076939
it really isn't but ok

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Since this thread exists, I'll also ask for recommendations.

I personally am a fan of "grindy" games like Runescape and Albion Online due to them giving the option of just putting them in a small window in a corner of the PC while you do other stuff on the background, but don't know which of the two to commit to:

>What i like about OSRS
-Technically more sandbox than Albion
-You don't have to do something, say a quest, if you don't feel up to it
-Can just stand in a place for hours on end to farm for something without ever needing to move from it, like mining

>What I don't like about OSRS
-I CANNOT STOMACH THE QUESTS, they are far too long and require too much time to be accomplished, and I don't like being forced to look up on the wiki for each step of the way
-Going from point A to point B is far too slow because of how quickly the stamina runs out which is also one of the main reasons as to why i dislike quests so much

unironically i may considering vmscape more than actual osrs since it's free, has endless stamina, and the exp rate is higher than normal, only downside may be the player cap

>What I like about Albion
-Tutorial doesn't hold your hand for too long
-Just like OSRS, can farm endless in one place of the map
-Pretty straight forward mechanics

Guess that's all so far

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>>1032659
Has anyone mentioned the Dragon ball Online MMO? worth a look, fun progression and comfy, not many players obv but its a global server

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Anyone doing mortal online 2? :3 Would be fun to find anons to die with.

Any mmos that still have a decent role playing community? I returned to WoW after a decade and discovered that the rp was largely dead.

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>>1077936
there isn't, anon. This type of game isn't successful enough, all mmos today are made copying that horrid wow themepark style + mobile mechanics, that's it.
It's literally over

>>1068143
Already making it. Don't need any of you, it'll be somewhat ready to show off in 2-3 years:^)
Business model will be innovative to say the least. It's designed from the ground up to be the fairest free2play game ever made.

>>1081587
The Lord of the Rings Online on Landroval/Laurelin

>>1081652
the irony of saying this when runescape has a grind that puts gook mmos to shame while also being an idle game

>>1081889
The real irony of OSRS is that despite it being MMO in nature (shared persistant servers) its designed like a single player game

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>>1046768
>what can you tell me about gw2? is it gonna die in the near future?
NTA but GW2 is $100+, to get a good experience about $200+. It's at least $100 to buy all the content ($50 for the three expansions and then another $50 to buy the patch content in between expansions), and then you need to spend at least another $100 on essential utilities. You then need to buy a few massive QoL improvements like extra bag slots, at least one extra bank tab, and then maybe 1 or 2 more character build slots. And then you're probably going to drop $40 on a raptor and flying mount skin since all mount skins come from the cash shop and a mount skin costs $20. You might also pay a little more beyond that to buy some nice looking armor or weapons off of the cash shop (again the best looking stuff is from there), and lastly you might buy a Thousand Seas Pavilion pass to access the most useful hub in the game since all of bank/crafting stations/auction houses/etc are all right next to each other.

Laying down $200 once to play GW2 sure beats having to pay $210+ each year to play WoW or FFXIV, where you have to buy a $60 box expansion every other year, pay $15 per month, and then ALSO have cash shops to deal with on top. GW2 is definitely the best value proposition of the big three MMOs. I am playing WoW atm but will unsub in a couple months. I haven't seriously played FF14 in over a year but I'm still subbed because I don't want to lose my house and if I do it's unlikely I will ever get a good plot again, and I don't want to spend hours trying to glitch items back into position.

1/2

>>1081978
2/2


WoW has the best aesthetics, responsive combat, and PvP is fun. Mythic+ (speedrunning the same 8 dungeons over and over on a progressively higher difficulty) is kinda fun but gets old after a while. Still has the biggest MMO RP scene.

GW2 has the best animations (they feel weighty), nice combat, and is the easiest to jump in and just do stuff, but once you beat the story and get all the masteries there isn't that much left to do. The 5v5 PvP is okay but gets boring after a while because the maps are too small and all play the same. WvW is fun in small doses but the game mode has been neglected by the devs and doesn't have long term staying power.

FF14 is a 400+ hour long visual novel, and the writing starts going downhill after Stormblood. FF14 has the worst combat. There is no class customization and the combat is sluggish and non responsive. It also has the least amount of endgame content. Once you reach level cap and beat the story, there is nothing to do. You can go old expansion's grind zones like Eureka or Bozja but once you finish those, that's it and the devs aren't adding more.

>>1081978
>NTA but GW2 is $100+, to get a good experience about $200+. It's at least $100 to buy all the content ($50 for the three expansions and then another $50 to buy the patch content in between expansions), and then you need to spend at least another $100 on essential utilities. You then need to buy a few massive QoL improvements like extra bag slots, at least one extra bank tab, and then maybe 1 or 2 more character build slots. And then you're probably going to drop $40 on a raptor and flying mount skin since all mount skins come from the cash shop and a mount skin costs $20.
Jesus christ. Just get New World and the expansion instead, you can also probably pick up some gear slots and it would still be less than $100 all in.

>>1082080
>reads 2/2
oh wait never mind, you're a wowbuck. carry on.

>>1082082
"wowbuck" is zivvie lingo, you exposed yourself xister.

>>1082080
New World has the best combat but no content, hence the price point. If we're talking pure value proposition, GW2 still reigns supreme.

>>1082089
it would have infinite content if it leaned into pvp more....

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>>1082204
I can play Ragnarok because of this, it's always pvp that gets me. I kinda wanna get into Lineage 2 because I heard it has cool large scale pvp.

>>1082207
>RF online
hello SEA

>>1045392
Holy fuck I remember playing this years ago and raiding a dungeon under a church, maybe I should give it another try

>>1036580
I think the combat is pretty good in gw2. As an elementalist i can switch between fire electricity ice and earth, i have different abilities for each element then those abilities change again when you switch weapons

Ashes of Creation is starting to look comfy as fuck

>>1082207
I fucking miss this game, open world pvp was one of the best pvp experiences I had in any mmo. Raiding those stupid dwarfs just to wait for their big daddies BMAUs to appear and then just explode those things with my lvl 50 isis was better than doing drugs

i think i understand the skepticism now. tried a bunch of mmos, they're just boring or feels clunky/outdated... i don't know how you people do it.

>>1083256
Personally i like the slow burn that mmos provide, but yes it can be boring at times. What mmos did you try?

>>1083256
Same, it's to the point that I just laugh whenever I see an announcement of a new MMO. You just know it's not going to deliver on any promises they make in the trailer, and will look many orders of magnitude shittier in real gameplay. Feels like the genre is a grift at this point.

>>1083256
MMORPGs have been sorta...destroyed? By modern gaming behaviors. The first part is what people have discussed a lot already. Changes in social behaviors and availability of information as the internet (and its corresponding technologies such as social media/discords) progressed. It took away a portion of the "flame" that made MMORPGs feel unique. The other aspect is that as gaming as developed, new genres have spawned that siphoned off players from the MMORPG genre.

See, playing a MMORPG like a modern game is kind of pointless. It feels like shit, as I'm sure you've already seen. MMORPGs are first and foremost significantly more enjoyable when you get really involved into the social scene. Talk with players in map chat, establish a reputation, join a guild, etc. Playing it solo, as many have done, often feels horrible. And there's few games that provide a good experience that makes it feel worth it. The other part is availability of information. Its easy to look up immediate guides on content and builds. But discovering those for yourself was a huge boon for the genre early on before wikis became too widespread (they existed, but they weren't nearly as insane as they are now). That's why people have an absolute blast when a MMORPG first releases. Everything is new and amazing feeling. There's no 10 page wiki on the exact build to use to steamroll content. Or telling you how to skip 50% of a dungeon by jumping off a certain ledge to another ledge. Or some shitty strategy. Now these modern things aren't new. They existed during the golden years too, they weren't as widespread. Like take WoW's climb to fame. People LIVED in that game. They would hop on just to be in the world and talk to others. They farmed materials, they ran dungeons for the heck of it, they world pvp/did bgs, etc. Taking awhile to find a tank for a dungeon? You go farmed materials or mobs or did world pvp. You hung out in Org/SW and just talked randomly. 1/2

>>1084302
2/2

Now? Yeah you don't really do that. You have a LFG and if a LFG doesn't exist, you have a third party addon/website that does it. You don't "hang out" in the world anymore. You either find a group immediately or you log off and go do something else. You have discords to keep in contact with all your guild mates, instead of relying mroe upon in game chat systems. Vent/TS/xfire/steam existed. But people still preferred to go in game and chat rather than use them (especially early on when they only had voice). Nevermind the influence of things like twitch.

Those things really helped you overcome the combat flaws/issues that often came with MMORPGs. Cause the Social aspect was like nothing else. There was also the concept of novelty. For a lot of people, they played a MMORPG for the first time in the 2000s. It was a very novel experience for them. On top of that, multiplayer overall was novel for them. I mean shit, when WoW came out, consoles had only gotten multiplayer functionality 2-3 years prior. Multiplayer overall was still a novel experience for A LOT of gamers. Even though games like UO/EQ existed for awhile.

Finally other genres. Once games like MOBAs and BR started taking off, they siphoned out a lot of the PvP playerbase as they were better PvP experiences. And the MMORPG genre never really recovered or adapated (Gw2 is probably the closest we've come). That was a significant portion of the playerbase that is gone.

I've tried almost every single MMORPG in existence (including old school stuff like Everquest P99) and have come to the inevitable conclusion that it is a genre designed not to be a good social experience, but to make the players addicted and waste their time as much as possible through artificial padding. Co-op RPGs are just a better experience.

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>>1084303
For me, MMOs were about exploring a fun and interesting world while meeting strangers and chatting or doing stuff together. Now, the former has been mostly killed in modern MMOs by bland art direction, a general lack of creativity and fear of taking risks in making the world actually dangerous rather than a toothless themepark to get you from flowcharted instanced raid to flowcharted instanced raid. In older MMOs you DO have well designed worlds but the ones I've played lack the playerbase to support them they're a solved game primarily inhabited by meta-obsessed jaded veterans. As for meeting people, nobody really does this in MMOs anymore because as you said, like 95% of the socializing had shifted off-platform to spyware like Discord instead. Then you have games like FF14 that make it even harder by often grouping you cross-world with people you'll never organically run into again. You CAN meet people in these games still, but it's far rarer and less organic that it used to be.

There's only 3 MMOs I still mess with from time to time, 2 of which aren't REALLY MMOs

>FFXI
I just play it to hang around in the world and see story stuff I haven't seen already. Incredibly comfy game but retail is abandoned by SE who for some reason refuses to hire GMs to police botters and RMTers. There's bots running around from 5 years ago that are still not banned. Private servers on the other hand are their own conundrum, with dramatic drama queen teams/communities and a codebase that still sounds to be quite inaccurate and unfinished.

>>1084398
2/2

>PSOBB
On Ephinea. This is just a Discord game at this point, so as I don't use Discord I usually end up playing solo unless I stumble across a random open game, which is rare as this game doesn't allow joining other players mid-quest, and most people password lock their games either to play with friends/discorders or solo anyway. Another game I like for the world and the atmosphere, as a general Phantasy Star enjoyer.

>PSU
On Clementine. Less refined a game than PSO, but the private server itself is quite cozy. Yes, it's still a PSO-like, so gameplay does boil down to running the same missions over and over ad nauseum, but you can join people mid-mission in this game and in general people are way more social and friendly than your average PSO players.

I'd still like to see MH Frontier get a proper private server some day, or even basegame PSO2 with gacha removed and with custom quests. In general I'm quite disillusioned with MMOs both corporate and private-server based, it's just such a mess at the moment. I just go play singleplayer RPGs instead.

I've played nearly 1.2k hours of ESO and it's a bad MMO. Not bad as in it's a bad TES game (which it also is), it's a bad MMO. There are so many features that are common in other MMOs that are just plain missing in ESO. They added a proper group finder YESTERDAY after nearly 10 fucking years and no one uses it. The cash shop is horrendous and needs nothing more than that unless you want a lengthy rant by an autist. The combat is terrible and so is the PvP. PvP being bad is mostly bias on my part, because I don't like MMO PvP anyway. There's so much content, but nothing to do and the DLCs are even worth it because you finish it in maybe a week or less or a month if you're a casual player. It's nearly in maintenance mode, since they're probably going to start moving devs to their next MMO. Stay away, it's a complete waste.
That being said, I also would like another MMO to play that isn't FFXIV or any of the others OP listed. I might check out that Project: Gorgon to see how it is, but I would like something else I'm about done with ESO.

throne and liberty combat reveal in 30 minutes if anybody cares kek

>>1084663
Yeah I love ESO as a singleplayer MMORPG. I absolutely hate that such a term exists, but here we are. I find the combat in the "endgame" areas where you actually have to care about your build...it just feels bland and shitty. But with things like the TES lore, first person view, crime, voiced quests with pseudo choices, companions, housing, etc. On top of not having a new TES game in like what, 12 or 13 years so far? Its the best we've got for that universe. So I choose some shitty build that I made based purely around the fun factor, play mainly in first person, and focus on open world content and questing. Every time I've tried to do anything beyond that game (Trials, Cyrodiil, BGs, etc), it feels so so bad. I end up just wanting to play another MMORPG that does it better. But for the RPG experience? ESO is S tier as far as MMORPGs go.

>>1084398
Yeah to me its not only design, but players. Classic WoW I think is/was a great experiment to show "older" style designs and how players interact with them in the modern era. Mainly the Vanilla version of the game. The amount of stupidity, self destructive, temper-tantrum throwing behavior I saw from the players during classic vanilla was insane. I basically realized that even if a newer mmorpg took risks and did what we want, players would hate it because the ones who are majority in this genre are idiots who ruin the game for themselves.

>>1084725
The one thing I love doing in ESO is dungeons, even though I suck soloing most of them, they can be okay in groups, but you get some fucking retarded, toxic people sometimes and it's pretty funny sometimes. Still, this game was never and never will be good. Had they done some kind of remaster or 2.0 version some years back to fix the combat and add more mechanics, it would have been fine, but it's too late now. Next year is the anniversary and even though they have some big adventure planned, as if they're making it some possible big finale, but it will be nothing more than a whimper from the background of games like WoW and FFXIV, hell even BDO.

>>1081587
TOR always has role playing guilds posting recruitment ads, but I don't know if they actually actively role play

>>1084798
Yeah the combat situation is so hard to fix cause once you get down to it, everyone has a different idea of what would be the perfect combat. No matter what the discussion eventually moves towards a "The combat should be like this game". And I've heard a sizable portion of people say that the combat should be like WoW, FF14, gw2, etc. There's not really a consistent idea of what would be good combat in the first place.

I do feel kind of bad for them because they know its an issue, but there's no fix. So they introduce these artifact items that reduce or solve one of the issues. Oh you don't like constant hot bar switching? here's a one bar build. Or you don't like attack weaving? Here's a skill spam build. That's about the best they can do for now.

Like personally if I absolutely had to choose, maybe something like New World would be more entertaining. But I'd still kind of miss the first person experience. I've got a hot take/unpopular thought on this and that is that I think a game like Fallout 76 but in the TES universe (and designed from the get-go to be what Fo76 is now) would absolutely kill. Same combat with slight changes here and there. Team dungeons to play in. Similar questing, and progression system to the TES games. Ability to "homestead" and build your own homes, recruit companions, etc. A map that is 4x the size of Skyrim. With smaller maps released 1-2 times a year. Tons of open world events to play. To me that would've been far more entertaining than ESO from a multiplayer standpoint. Probably the only way a multiplayer elder scrolls game would've lived up to its expectations for me.

>>1084878
I think the problem always comes down to that people are always talking about action combat vs tab targeting/traditional, but they never bring out the actual problem with modern MMOs, engaging combat.

In both action and tab target they both have devolved into mashing hypercombos, and 'roles' have become so streamlined (the trinity) that there is no room for engaging gameplay, because if everyone is balanced around being part of a trinity rather than having a niche then the only way to balance that system is to make every class more or less the same, the only difference is which arrangement of buttons you push to do your hypercombo over another

Like the current trinity tank is a cancer to game design, and no matter if you make your hypercombo gameplay hotbar based DDR rotations or M1 M2 mashing action combat, the fact that all mechanics revolve around a mob auto attacking a guy who is designated to generate infinite threat and take 0 damage from anything but a tank buster is boring fucking game design and leads to the problem that the only way to make an engaging encounter is to just make a boss that 1 shots people if they don't move out of bad fast enough, which then leads to the addon arms race between players and devs

>>1084951
another issue is character building for niches, because of trinity design, you heavily limit characters players can play in the first place. A PVP build in the past was about being bursty and good enough to kill before getting killed, now its just equipping PVP gear so you get PVP stats that scale your PVP damage and resistance

Similarly min-maxing around different kinds of efficiencies, such as increasing the number of mobs you can pull at a time before going OOM or dying from incoming damage, these are just straight up baked into your kit without a single thought put into them, such as the trinity tank no longer having to balance between threat(and damage) and mitigation, and using different setups for different encounters, its all just baked into their kit, and their gear is nothing but stat sticks with maybe 2-3 items actually doing something interesting, though those might be passive as well.

>>1084954
Yeah I agree. I'd like to see something more interesting than the traditional trinity. But at that same time...there's a lot of people who like it. Its one of the common complaints I see about Gw2. There's no tanking and no healing. That game has a whole other bundle of problems from them trying to do no trinity. But yeah I've met quite a few people who don't like playing it because they like being a healer or they like being a tank.

Like you said, what it comes down to is engaging. Trinity, tab target, action combat, etc. None of that matters as long as it is fun and engaging. its just a question of what do most people find fun/engaging? You have to rely heavily on data analytics and other games to make a good guess. I mean WoW and FF14 are the biggest MMORPGs by far right now. So does that mean a majority of people prefer that kind of combat? But then you have SWTOR which is almost identical in combat, yet not nearly as popular. For me I have found that New World is probably the most engaging combat I've played. Its not perfect and I could use more "umpf" and feedback from my attacks (they had to tone it down for the sake of group content design). But out of all the typical contendors in the genre right now (WoW, FF14, ESO, Gw2, SWTOR, etc), I've found nw to have the most engaging.

>>1032659
Has OP found a good MMO yet? I'm trying to move on from FFXIV.

>>1084725
>Yeah to me its not only design, but players.
I think the same factors behind why the internet sucks now are why MMOs also suck socially. MMOs back during those days would attract a wide variety of people with a lot to share and say, and everybody was excited by the idea of hanging out with people from all over the world. Now it's social-media-brained, dopamine-receptor-fried ADD modern gamers and normies.

>>1085432
Think they are playing the following
>having downlaoded warframe, destiny 2, LOTRO, GW2(again), im now going to try EQ2, and RoR.

I find it hard to really say what a good MMORPG because it honestly comes down to what you really want out of one. Most MMORPGs do 1-3 things really well, and the rest very poorly. So if those 1-3 things fit your bill, then its probably a good MMORPG for you.

5K hours in Warframe - quit, unironically did everything worthwhile
3k hours in WoW Retail - quit and will likely never return
2k hours in XIV - quit after ShB expac launch but might come back for DT
1k hours in PoE - quit MMOs to focus on this game, but I've recently quit it as well lol

I've already tried most MMOs on the market and here is what I've considered playing at the moment:

>FFXIV (again)
I haven't played the current expac at all so there is something for me to go back to, and I'd be starting a new character so it would hold my attention for a long ass time

>Classic WoW
Never played on the pre-Cata map before, so it's all new to me. Skipped out when Classic first launched because it seemed like a zerg rush of people swarming streamers and shit. Only shame is I hear that goldselling and botters have not gotten better. Hoping that they annouce something good at Blizzcon.

>New World
Game looks stale as shit but my irl friends play and have been nagging me to join them. Really doesn't seem like my cup of tea though

>Maplestory Reboot
New server launches soon, comfy grinder but not something I'd play forever.

I have no expectations that the genre will improve because now it's gotten to the point where the industry can't even launch a new MMO, or at the very least, it launches with tons of problems.

How is Neverwinter? I played a very tiny bit a long time ago, but kinda just forgot about it.

>>1085624
it was good a long time ago but then they completely fucked up the game with one of their combat reworks
supposedly the game is decent these days

>>1085423
The problem with GW2 was that the trinity still existed, just every class could do any role.

A better example of the anti-trinity is adding in the classic roles of support, crowd control, puller, off tank (not just a second main tank) ect.

For example, the frost mage in vanilla WOW is a powerful crowd control class that can trivialize AOE pulls with their slows and snares, in retail WOW they're just another generic damage dealer, when considering playing or bringing a frost mage in vanilla WOW, you ask "Do we need AOE and slows" while in retail WOW you ask "Is frost mage good this patch?" because one is unique in role, the other is generic

Also damage shouldn't really be a role, and tanking should only be single target, every encounter is based around doing damage, you need to make everyone engaged in the encounter, and the only way modern MMOs do that is by taking the engagement away from the player's kit and put it on the boss's mechanics, usually in the form of instant death mechanics or extra action bars in WOW or button mashing events in FFXIV

>>1085616
Try Blade and Soul, it is on soft life support and NCSoft are greedy gooks but you really don't need to engage with its whale treadmills to have a good time with most of the content available. It is still one of the more unique attempts at mmos to date.

>>1085683
I think I'm gonna play it. Dunno if it's good in the long-run, but I need a new MMO to waste time on.

>>1085696
On the Gw2 side of things, yes and no? There really isn't a tank class. There's different levels of survivability that you can put into your chosen build depending on what you go for. But there isn't a traditional tank role or anywhere close to it (someone who holds agro and manages it). In the same vein there isn't much in the way of traditional support. Now roles did end up forming out of the game and a pseudo trinity was made by the community itself. Essentially revolving around DPS (AoE vs Single target) and Boon Support (alacrity, might, quickness mainly). While each class could do all the roles (in the sense that each class was in charge of its own sustain and damage), it still had some level of group play and roles were born out of that.

Now it feels absolutely like shit because you have a psuedo role system in a combat design that was never designed with that in mind. But its too far in to fix that.

While I do agree with your statement about classic roles, it does present its own issues. Ones that were experienced in the games that did that back in the day. And would be magnified by today's braindead audiences. First, people will quickly figure out the "best" roles for encounters and prefer those only. For example, perhaps a puller isn't that useful because a crowd control roll can easily outshine it + do more damage. So a bunch of groups start gatekeeping and wont accept them. Players will find the most optimal comps that complete the content the quickest, then strongarm the community into following that. If they do something like this, they're gonna have to take the route of retail wow where you have a selection of build types that can be easily switched between so everyone has the best chance of being able to play. Even then that problem may still exist (still exists in retail WoW, "Is frost mage good now?").

I think its possible to pull it off. Just gotta have choices. But people will still strong arm into a trinity

>>1085966
If you cater to a braindead audience with a braindead game then you won't really attract people who are interested in playing a game longterm.

You really need a special kind of retard who will grind for the sake of grinding, and there are already better games out there for that, like OSRS

Any Age of Conan anons?

>>1083256
MMOs like WoW, GW2, and FF14 are the only current high production value fantasy RPGs that appeal to me. Don't care about drab stuff like the Witcher 3 that came out a decade ago, or moviegames like nu God of War, or far cry/ubisoft stuff. And low production value indie games don't appeal to me. Most JRPG devs went extinct during the transition to 3D HD so now we're lucky if we even get one JRPG a year like Trails or Monochrome Mobius.

A huge advantage that these three MMOs have (mainly WoW and GW2 but also FFXIV to a lesser extent) is the character customization. You have a decade+ of armors to mix and match, as well dozens of different classes to choose from. Most other games can't boast the same.

I don't play these three MMOs year round. I play them seasonally, for a couple months when a new expansion or major content patch comes out and then I am playing a different game.

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>>1062152
Yeah its alright. Outside of some gear designs the game looks like shit though.

>>1081978
>>1081981
lmao this game is more expensive than bdo wtf

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>>1081981
>WoW has the best aesthetics, responsive combat, and PvP is fun

>>1084692
just watched it, seems pretty ok. still unsure about how the whole thing will play out but I'm excited for something new regardless, even if it's only fun for the first 2 months

>>1032659
>trying to find a MMO for me after 7 months DOTA free
Play Lost Ark.

>>1086501
The fact that you unironically recommended Lost Ark means you're probably a retarded whale.

>>1085713
NTA, but can you switch to the old graphics? I really do not like how the updated visuals look

>>1086501
OP is a bit of a fag, but no reason the ruin his life like that.

>>1086157
What are your thoughts on ESO? Seems like it would fit what you're looking for. The customization/RPG/cosmetic scene in that game is quite a lot.

>>1081978
>I still play for Troonfantasy 14 because muh house
>Just pay $200 for a "good" experience in an ancient game
>I am paying for WoW but will unsub soon I swear
Holy fuck the absolute state...

>>1087891
>ESO
>every expac is literally the same shit
>combat is literally so brainless you can use a controller
>pay shitty monthly fee so you can do anything
>or spend $400 to buy all raids and shit which no one even does

It's fucking over for MMOs...

The industry is really dying for a few new competing MMOs to release in the same year, not this korean p2w garbage they keep pumping out. New World looks like an ugly unity asset flip game or some shit and it's just now beginning to bring itself up to par. ESO/GW2 feel outdated as shit and BDO is arguably the least MMO out of all popular MMOs today with how solo based it is. Tab target slop is just that. T&L seems like it has potential based off of their sensibilities but they are korean devs, even if their game is fundamentally good they WILL fuck it up and lie through their teeth about everything.

Then there was crowfall, pantheon and camelot from the west lol. Even Gloria Victis shut down about a week ago. It's been nothing but a decade pure of mediocrity

>>1042938
People are, that's why your favorite video game genre is dying. Being a passive aggressive bitch about it isn't going to fix that lol

FFXIV cope thread

>>1088594
TL looks like shit desu, you also have to remember that asian games are all about presentation which adds an extra layer of shallow extravagance to the already over-inflated and undelivered promises that MMOs try to grift and sell you on.

>>1088704
Can't be any worse than the past decade of MMO releases which have all been total shit. Seems like they at the very least are clear with their vision of the game environment. It'll either be something worth playing for at least a month or another elyon lol, the whole genre is just whatever at this point. I'll never give korean mmo devs money ever again that's for sure